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View Full Version : Brooks Reed is not the player you think


CloakNNNdagger
06-26-2012, 11:13 AM
The truth is being recognized.

From NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a21ad4/article/brooks-reed-is-not-the-player-you-think-with-texans)


By Gregg Rosenthal
Around The League editor
June 26, 2012 at 10:55 a.m.


Reed and Watt were the first rookie duo in 15 years to notch at least five sacks apiece. Reed's pass-rush production fell off with no sacks in his final five regular season, but his playoff success shows why Reed is ready to break out.

Not the player you think

Reed came into the league with a reputation as a potentially dynamic pass rusher that would be weak against the run. That proved to be far from the truth. Reed was solid as a pass rusher as a rookie, but he was arguably better against the run. He has the size and strength to set the edge well lining up as a defensive end or outside linebacker.

"Hes the strongest guy on our team," teammate Connor Barwin said this summer.

We re-watched every snap from Reed against the Ravens in the playoffs. We were impressed by how technically sound, strong, and versatile he was. Reed recorded 13.5 tackles and a forced fumble in the two playoff games mostly due to strength and effort. He lined up all over the field, including at inside linebacker occasionally. He can cover when asked. If Reed hit a rookie wall during the season, it crumbled in January.

The Texans drafted Whitney Mercilus in the first round in part to serve as insurance with Barwin in a contract year. It will take time for Mercilus to get regular snaps playing behind Barwin and Reed.

Reed, a second round pick last year, is a different player than analysts expected coming out of Arizona. He's ready to make a bigger impact than expected starting now.

Playoffs
06-26-2012, 11:25 AM
Reed ranked 7th out of 28 3-4 OLBs against the run in 2011 -- ProFootballFocus

GP
06-26-2012, 11:40 AM
IIRC, Wade was a bit shocked Reed fell to us in the 2nd round.

What I like about Wade Phillips is that he knows who to target, and he doesn't flinch when he senses he's been given a gift. The selections of Watt and Reed might be the best back-to-back picks in Texans history.

VTexan
06-26-2012, 12:46 PM
http://i.imgur.com/NsonA.gif

IDEXAN
06-26-2012, 12:49 PM
"Hes the strongest guy on our team," teammate Connor Barwin said this summer.
*******************************
That's obviously an exaggeration if not down right silly, but I'll be serious (even if Barwin won't). I always thought they drafted another edge-rusher in the first-round to play next to Barwin, but maybe the Texans are thinking that their long-term pairing will be Mercilus and Reed because they don't want to pay Barwin
the going rate in free-agency next winter ?

Doppelganger
06-26-2012, 01:42 PM
"Hes the strongest guy on our team," teammate Connor Barwin said this summer.
*******************************
That's obviously an exaggeration if not down right silly, but I'll be serious (even if Barwin won't). I always thought they drafted another edge-rusher in the first-round to play next to Barwin, but maybe the Texans are thinking that their long-term pairing will be Mercilus and Reed because they don't want to pay Barwin
the going rate in free-agency next winter ?

Teams like the Giants and Steelers draft pass rushers seemingly every year. They use rotations and allow younger players to adjust to the rigors and complexity of the pro game. Then when a passrusher becomes too expensive, they let him walk, go to the next man on the depth chart, and draft another one.

If you do it right, its the right way to go.

badboy
06-26-2012, 03:03 PM
Teams like the Giants and Steelers draft pass rushers seemingly every year. They use rotations and allow younger players to adjust to the rigors and complexity of the pro game. Then when a passrusher becomes too expensive, they let him walk, go to the next man on the depth chart, and draft another one.

If you do it right, its the right way to go.Yep as I mentioned on my 2013 mock, Mercilus could step into a starter role with Reed when Barwin's deal ends.

Reed is exactly who I thought he was. Remember discussing with Beerlover and Rmartin65 that we thought he was a first round guy. We were all extremely excited when he was there round two.

Rey
06-26-2012, 11:35 PM
I think barwin is a much better player than both merci and reed. I think if barwin shines and we let him walk we take a step back with reed and merci.

I'm really hoping merci proves me wrong, but I'm not a huge fan if the pick. And i don't think reed is some kind of under cover star either. I think both of them together make a solid compliment opposite barwin whom I think is a stud.

steelbtexan
06-26-2012, 11:48 PM
IIRC, Wade was a bit shocked Reed fell to us in the 2nd round.

What I like about Wade Phillips is that he knows who to target, and he doesn't flinch when he senses he's been given a gift. The selections of Watt and Reed might be the best back-to-back picks in Texans history.

Cushing and Barwin

Watt and Reed

AJ and whoever was picked in the 2nd rd.

TheMatrix31
06-26-2012, 11:51 PM
Mario and DeMeco.

Texecutioner
06-27-2012, 12:09 AM
"Hes the strongest guy on our team," teammate Connor Barwin said this summer.
*******************************
That's obviously an exaggeration if not down right silly, but I'll be serious (even if Barwin won't). I always thought they drafted another edge-rusher in the first-round to play next to Barwin, but maybe the Texans are thinking that their long-term pairing will be Mercilus and Reed because they don't want to pay Barwin
the going rate in free-agency next winter ?

Well maybe he meant pound for pound the strongest. All I know is that Barwin is making a strong statement and I'll take his word for it. He is a beast, but for some reason I think Mercilous will have the highest potential out of all of them. We're going to have the best pass rush in the league! :doot:

The Pencil Neck
06-27-2012, 02:07 AM
Yep as I mentioned on my 2013 mock, Mercilus could step into a starter role with Reed when Barwin's deal ends.

Reed is exactly who I thought he was. Remember discussing with Beerlover and Rmartin65 that we thought he was a first round guy. We were all extremely excited when he was there round two.

I thought for sure he'd be a Patriot.

The Pencil Neck
06-27-2012, 02:10 AM
AJ and whoever was picked in the 2nd rd.

Bennie Joppru?

:toropalm:

powda
06-27-2012, 05:19 AM
Bennie Joppru?

:toropalm:

Freakin jop. I was cussing at the tv the second I saw the selection.

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2012, 08:12 AM
Bennie Joppru?

:toropalm:

Freakin jop. I was cussing at the tv the second I saw the selection.

FYI, I posted this recent piece of Joppru in the National Football League Forum.



Bennie Joppru, 32, recovering from stroke (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1973198#post1973198)

steelbtexan
06-27-2012, 09:01 AM
Freakin jop. I was cussing at the tv the second I saw the selection.

Thanks

Asserly

thunderkyss
06-27-2012, 11:25 AM
The selections of Watt and Reed might be the best back-to-back picks in Texans history.



Really? The competition is pretty stiff.

2006: Mario & Demeco. Neither guy is on the team now, but they were the defense from '06-'09

2009: Cushing & Barwin. That's got to be at least comparable to Watt/Reed.

Gots to be.

badboy
06-27-2012, 12:07 PM
I think barwin is a much better player than both merci and reed. I think if barwin shines and we let him walk we take a step back with reed and merci.

I'm really hoping merci proves me wrong, but I'm not a huge fan if the pick. And i don't think reed is some kind of under cover star either. I think both of them together make a solid compliment opposite barwin whom I think is a stud.Ignoring the cap, I'd agree with you, but there is that little cap thinngy. Barwin is gonna want big bucks that Texans may choose to not give. You cannot say "don't let a stud get away" but not address the other FAs who will also want big money. Schaub, Brown and perhaps Butler come before Barwin as of today. If someone steps up who can replace Rashad then Barwin moves up to third need.

infantrycak
06-27-2012, 12:20 PM
Ignoring the cap, I'd agree with you, but there is that little cap thinngy. Barwin is gonna want big bucks that Texans may choose to not give.

Not sure where you get Barwin is going to demand a gigantic contract. I like him but his leverage isn't sky high yet. He hasn't made a pro-bowl. He isn't a top 5 pass rusher yet.

badboy
06-27-2012, 12:35 PM
Not sure where you get Barwin is going to demand a gigantic contract. I like him but his leverage isn't sky high yet. He hasn't made a pro-bowl. He isn't a top 5 pass rusher yet.After 11.5 sacks and 15 (my projection) this season, his leverage will be sky high next offseason. I am really hoping he settles for a team friendly deal but why should he? I think there will be a market for OLB with double digit sacks.

GP
06-27-2012, 12:51 PM
After 11.5 sacks and 15 (my projection) this season, his leverage will be sky high next offseason. I am really hoping he settles for a team friendly deal but why should he? I think there will be a market for OLB with double digit sacks.

DeMeco was wanted by Philly, to the tune of giving us fairly good compensation.

So I buy into your theory. A guy like Barwin, if he has at least a 10+ sack season and stays healthy all year long...teams will want him. We're going to go through LBs every few years, which is why I think Wade keeps getting those shelves re-stocked (and will continue to do so).

thunderkyss
06-27-2012, 01:35 PM
Not sure where you get Barwin is going to demand a gigantic contract. I like him but his leverage isn't sky high yet. He hasn't made a pro-bowl. He isn't a top 5 pass rusher yet.

& he's an OLB in a 3-4 defense. He's not going to demand any where near the money that Mario's rookie contract set him up for.

I'm not saying 3-4 OLBs are a dime a dozen, but they're much more affordable than some would have you believe.

badboy
06-27-2012, 02:01 PM
& he's an OLB in a 3-4 defense. He's not going to demand any where near the money that Mario's rookie contract set him up for.

I'm not saying 3-4 OLBs are a dime a dozen, but they're much more affordable than some would have you believe.It will not take a Mario contract to put him out of range of our cap.

hadaad
06-27-2012, 02:03 PM
Teams like the Giants and Steelers draft pass rushers seemingly every year. They use rotations and allow younger players to adjust to the rigors and complexity of the pro game. Then when a passrusher becomes too expensive, they let him walk, go to the next man on the depth chart, and draft another one.

If you do it right, its the right way to go.

Who have the Giants let walk, as a pass rusher? I thought they still had all their dudes, except Strahan who retired, but retired a Giant...

GP
06-27-2012, 03:59 PM
My name is Connor Barwin. I have seen a lot in my few years in the NFL. I've seen guys like Johnathan Joseph and Danieal Manning get paid really nice money to come to a struggling defense such as ours just a year ago. I've seen veteran guys, guys who are solid contributors, get cut and traded.

If there's one thing I know, it's that other teams will want ME if I (and the defense I'm on) end up doing really well again in 2012. If that happens, either the Texans can pay me or another team will. But I'm going to collect on it either way. NFL stands for Not For Long, and I have to approach this from a business mindset. I have to get the most I can while I'm still able to do so.

--------

Folks, when you're a team who HAS...other teams will WANT what you has. We operated like that for 99% of our team's history. We would overpay for other teams' players, whether those players were worth it or not. Teams who need a pass rusher and solid run tackler will go after Connor Barwin.

We don't need to act like there won't be a push for the guy. We need to understand that this is the price of success--The price of individual success and the price of team success.

Drafting is what will make this team. Not whether we can always retain this guy or that guy when his rookie deal is up. No, it will come down to if Kubiak and Wade draft SMART these next 2 or 3 years...because they are drafting replacement of this year's starters. Rinse and repeat. That's what builds a 10+ year's worth of playoff appearances.

thunderkyss
06-27-2012, 07:59 PM
Drafting is what will make this team. Not whether we can always retain this guy or that guy when his rookie deal is up. No, it will come down to if Kubiak and Wade draft SMART these next 2 or 3 years...because they are drafting replacement of this year's starters. Rinse and repeat. That's what builds a 10+ year's worth of playoff appearances.

But you can't keep drafting the same position..... pass rusher, every year. At least not with first & 2nd round picks like we've been doing.

We got a stud in Andre & have been afforded the luxury of being able to use those early picks elsewhere..... DE. Andre is our core, or at least part of it. We're going to need guys like that on the defense that we'll be willing to pay, until we can get around to drafting that position again.

I don't know if Connor Barwin is, or should be in that core. But if he turns out to be a special player, you pay him. You find some way to pay him.

JjWatt for example. Are we going to let him walk when his time comes? If he continues to build on his rookie season, are we going to let him go?

If Mercilus don't look like the next coming of Demarcus Ware...... we should probably find a way to keep Barwin........ not that I think Barwin is the next coming of Demarcus Ware.

Norg
06-27-2012, 08:09 PM
in this day of age u need at least 3 high round pick DE or OLB

look at the giant SB run in the playoffs they had like 4 DE pass rushers on there dline LOL

TimeKiller
06-28-2012, 10:43 AM
His run stopping ability isn't quite so surprising. He is, after all like 6'3'', 2 fitty and built like an ox. While in college, as a 4/3 end his size probably wasn't enough to go after big OL all game long but as the end of a 5 man front or 3/4 set, he's more than capable of overpowering TEs/RBs and still enough of a pass rusher (as advertised) to get to the QB.

Very much looking forward to his progression, among others.

thunderkyss
06-28-2012, 11:59 AM
His run stopping ability isn't quite so surprising. He is, after all like 6'3'', 2 fitty and built like an ox. While in college, as a 4/3 end his size probably wasn't enough to go after big OL all game long but as the end of a 5 man front or 3/4 set, he's more than capable of overpowering TEs/RBs and still enough of a pass rusher (as advertised) to get to the QB.

Very much looking forward to his progression, among others.

What do you think of moving him inside? Next to Cushing. If Merci turns out to be everything we need on the end.

beerlover
06-28-2012, 12:09 PM
What do you think of moving him inside? Next to Cushing. If Merci turns out to be everything we need on the end.

I think he certainly could. I wonder if during mini-camp he got any reps inside? The idea is to get ALL your best players on the field @ the same time.

Rey
06-28-2012, 12:24 PM
I seriously doubt they move reed to MLB as anything other than an occasional wrinkle and I doubt they even do that.

drs23
06-28-2012, 01:56 PM
idonno:I seriously doubt they move reed to MLB as anything other than an occasional wrinkle and I doubt they even do that.

I would agree hands down if it were not the comment made by Wade about finding a way to get them all on the field at the same time and I think he'll find a way to do it. Will that be moving Reed inside with CushMonster considering the signing of Bradie James? idonno:

One thing I feel sure of though is that we'll see wrinkles that we nor our opponents saw last season. Bet on it.

:gotexans1

Rey
06-28-2012, 02:20 PM
idonno:

I would agree hands down if it were not the comment made by Wade about finding a way to get them all on the field at the same time and I think he'll find a way to do it. Will that be moving Reed inside with CushMonster considering the signing of Bradie James? idonno:

One thing I feel sure of though is that we'll see wrinkles that we nor our opponents saw last season. Bet on it.

:gotexans1

That would be a wrinkle. I doubt Reed will ever be considered a MLB is basically what I'm saying. Getting Reed, Barwin and Merciless on the field together doesn't mean one of them has to be playing MLB...It could just mean one is bumped inside in a passing situation..

I'm not disagreeing with you, just clarifying that I don't think Reed will ever be playing MLB in the true sense of playing MLB...

Of course, JMO.

GP
06-28-2012, 03:12 PM
I don't envision Reed playing inside LB.

You play his height and speed on the edges. Always.

You want to see him in the middle part of the action? Fine, watch him do an inside stunt after having lined up outside.

TimeKiller
06-28-2012, 06:44 PM
What do you think of moving him inside? Next to Cushing. If Merci turns out to be everything we need on the end.

I think it would take away from his pass rushing and likely stick him in the same situation he was in college, fighting big OL all game long. His strength and quickness on the edge would be sorely missed...unless Mercilus is truly merciless.

I don't think it's a stretch to see them set up in 3-3-5 and if Reed can indeed handle business on the inside 2-4-5 defenses. In 3-3-5 you could call Barwin or Merciless one of the DL, along with Smith and Watt. Then stack the other with Cushing and Reed as LB. Your DB's have lots of options with 5 on the field and even though they would be giving up some size to achieve this set up you would be 6 deep with hell hounds.

And truly, it wouldn't matter where they lined up then because you would surely be setting this up to get to the QB. The zone blitz possibilities are nearly endless, Mercilus being the only unproven in zone coverage.
Lining up this way would likely force the offense to max protect, giving the back 5 even more of an advantage.

It's gonna get crazy.