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srrono
06-22-2012, 11:00 PM
Source PFT

Jaguars: $25.1 million.

Titans: $19.97 million.

Eagles: $18.02 million.

Browns: $17.7 million.

Bengals: $16.58 million.

Chiefs: $16.54 million.

Buccaneers: $15.74 million.

Colts: $14.59 million.

Packers: $11.25 million.

Patriots: $10.93 million.

Broncos: $10.87 million.

Vikings: $10.59 million.

Panthers: $8.76 million.

Seahawks: $7.47 million.

Bills: $7.38 million.

Cowboys: $7.18 million.

Redskins: $6.97 million.

Jets: $6.04 million.

Cardinals: $4.55 million.

Dolphins: $4.45 million.

49ers: $4.19 million.

Texans: $4.05 million.

Bears: $3.97 million.

Lions: $3.77 million.

Rams: $3.60 million.

Steelers: $3.58 million.

Giants: $3.11 million.

Chargers: $2.86 million.

Falcons: $2.83 million.

Saints: $2.27 million.

Raiders: $1.34 million.

Ravens: $606,000.

Corrosion
06-22-2012, 11:11 PM
Lots of teams up against the cap .... Could see a lot of teams in the position the Texans found themselves in this offseason losing / cutting guy's who you wouldnt expect.

powda
06-23-2012, 12:23 AM
How the f!@k does the eagles "dream team" have 18 mil?

EllisUnit
06-23-2012, 12:47 AM
How the f!@k does the eagles "dream team" have 18 mil?

Must be like the NFLs version of the Yankees. I dont see how after spending ALL that money 2 seasons ago they have that much.

Norg
06-23-2012, 04:36 AM
Ravens are screwed if they dont win a SB soon

Wolf6151
06-23-2012, 05:16 AM
How is PFT calculating this amount? Is it based on our current 90 man roster, if so we'll be trimming alot in training camp and have more money available to pick up our WR#2 once the season starts. Or is it based on our 52 highest contracts? Either way that figure should go up toward the end of training camp due to cuts and then we can pick up some decent quality players from other teams cuts. Just wondering how they came up with that figure.

ckhouston
06-23-2012, 09:16 AM
have more money available to pick up our WR#2 once the season starts.

That wouldnt make sense to wait until camp is over to go after a #2. The #2 is on the team right now. Whoever that is the coaches probably already have a good idea. That person needs to be in camp learning the system.

CloakNNNdagger
06-23-2012, 09:25 AM
Lots of teams up against the cap .... Could see a lot of teams in the position the Texans found themselves in this offseason losing / cutting guy's who you wouldnt expect.

The rest of the AFC South, though, doesn't seem to be in that position now.

CloakNNNdagger
06-23-2012, 09:35 AM
How is PFT calculating this amount? Is it based on our current 90 man roster, if so we'll be trimming alot in training camp and have more money available to pick up our WR#2 once the season starts. Or is it based on our 52 highest contracts? Either way that figure should go up toward the end of training camp due to cuts and then we can pick up some decent quality players from other teams cuts. Just wondering how they came up with that figure.


For now, the cap space is determined by the top 51 contracts on the roster. Once the season begins, each team must fill all 53 players on the active roster and any players on any reserve lists under the spending ceiling.

Under the new CBA, teams automatically may carry over any remaining cap space to the next league year. Only the Texans (who have $4.05 million in cap room) and the Chargers (who have $2.86 million) opted to import none of their leftover space from 2011.link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/22/jags-ravens-at-each-end-of-broad-salary-cap-spectrum/)

EllisUnit
06-23-2012, 03:05 PM
link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/22/jags-ravens-at-each-end-of-broad-salary-cap-spectrum/)

That makes no sense to me, why wouldnt a team want to carry over cap ?? If not dont u just lose it ?

Dutchrudder
06-23-2012, 03:38 PM
That makes no sense to me, why wouldnt a team want to carry over cap ?? If not dont u just lose it ?

I recall reading some time ago that a team needed something like 500k or more space to be eligible to carry over, but we were under the threshold. On my phone, so I can't look it up :(

TexanCR
06-23-2012, 04:27 PM
If this cap space is the reference for next year I don't see how we will be able to afford extensions with Schaub, Brown and Barwin without making more cuts like Antonio and Walter...the bleeding continues.

infantrycak
06-23-2012, 04:31 PM
If this cap space is the reference for next year I don't see how we will be able to afford extensions with Schaub, Brown and Barwin without making more cuts like Antonio and Walter...the bleeding continues.

When extensions get done it generally lowers the cap hit for the current year other than on rookie contracts. So Schaub and Smith getting extensions would create more cap space and then Brown and Barwin could be signed up. Even with Brown and Barwin players are typically willing to take small salaries in the first year because they will also be receiving a signing bonus. The payroll would be high due to all the signing bonus money but the cap hit is workable.

CloakNNNdagger
06-23-2012, 04:44 PM
I recall reading some time ago that a team needed something like 500k or more space to be eligible to carry over, but we were under the threshold. On my phone, so I can't look it up :(

From ESPN Feb 2012: (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7570116/nfl-plenty-cap-room-improve)

The Houston Texans and San Diego Chargers didn't have enough remaining room to push money over into 2012, so Houston has $3.3 million of cap space and San Diego has $9.2 million.


This still didn't make any sense to me in that, per the new CBA, any and all unused monies can be transferred over to the next year. There is no apparent minimum.

Under Article 13, Section 6(b)(v) of the CBA, each team may carry over any remaining cap room from one year to the next by submitting written notice, signed by the owner of the team, to the league office no later than 14 days before the start of the next league year. The written notice must indicate the maximum amount of cap room that the team wishes to shift from one cap year to the next.

Dutchrudder, I dug this up from the archives..........one of your old posts (of Feb 15, 2012)......that refers to the $1.08 million. It shows carry over for both houston and San Diego. Could they forgotten the deadline? I would hope that would not be the explanation.:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-89821.html

This source also affirms this $1.08 number.:

http://joshmitchell24.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/nfl-free-agency-2012/

EllisUnit
06-23-2012, 05:48 PM
From ESPN Feb 2012: (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7570116/nfl-plenty-cap-room-improve)



This still didn't make any sense to me in that, per the new CBA, any and all unused monies can be transferred over to the next year. There is no apparent minimum.



Dutchrudder, I dug this up from the archives..........one of your old posts (of Feb 15, 2012)......that refers to the $1.08 million. It shows carry over for both houston and San Diego. Could they forgotten the deadline? I would hope that would not be the explanation.:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-89821.html

This source also affirms this $1.08 number.:

http://joshmitchell24.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/nfl-free-agency-2012/

Forgot the deadline, maybe thats what they mean when they say the two teams Choose not to carry over any remaining money. I hope thats not the case :mariopalm: - And can we get rid of this mario smiley, if i recall he is no longer a texan :truck:

Corrosion
06-23-2012, 07:01 PM
Ravens are screwed if they dont win a SB soon

See below.

The rest of the AFC South, though, doesn't seem to be in that position now.

Yeah , what does that say about the Texans "window of opportunity"?

Its obvious the Tits and Dolts will have the means to close the gap in talent next year while the Texans may take a step back.


It could be this season or bust .... if they cant figure out how to solve the cap issues.

ChampionTexan
06-23-2012, 07:32 PM
See below.



Yeah , what does that say about the Texans "window of opportunity"?

Its obvious the Tits and Dolts will have the means to close the gap in talent next year while the Texans may take a step back.


It could be this season or bust .... if they cant figure out how to solve the cap issues.

There was a thread on this a couple of weeks ago. It's hard to translate today to next season. In addition to expiring contracts, we've got dead money (Demeco, Winston, and even Okoye as examples) that will be dropping off. Demeco's trade cost money against this years cap, so clearly that was done with an eye towards next years cap situation. I also think the fact that a restructure was never even discussed with Winston says that move was likely as much about next years cap space as it was this years.

Clayton did a piece which started the previously mentioned discussion. He stated that as of now, the Texans are actually fifth on the list of available cap room for 2013 ($9 Million better off than Tenneesee). Here's a quote and a link to the article - maybe things won't be so horrible after all. No clue as to where he gets his numbers, but given it's Clayton, I'll put as much credibility in them as anyone.

The interesting part of the 2013 cap is that the AFC has room up top, particularly the AFC South. To keep their offense together during the Peyton Manning years, the Colts were always tight against the cap. Before a Luck deal, they led the NFL in 2013 with $43 million of room. Houston Texans general manager Rick Smith had a tough 2012, deciding to keep Arian Foster and Chris Myers, but it cost the Texans Eric Winston and Mario Williams. The Texans are fifth on the list with $24.8 million of room.

LINK (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8016480/nfl-salary-cap-carryover-rewards-smart-management)

The Pencil Neck
06-23-2012, 07:43 PM
Clayton did a piece which started the previously mentioned discussion. He stated that as of now, the Texans are actually fifth on the list of available cap room for 2013 ($9 Million better off than Tenneesee).

But as someone else pointed out, we've got to use that available cap room to try to sign our own guys. Schaub, Brown, and Barwin don't count against the cap in 2013 because they'll be free agents.

Playoffs
06-23-2012, 07:44 PM
This is all as clear as mud. http://www.franken-cruiser.com/community/images/smilies/blind.gif

Corrosion
06-23-2012, 08:12 PM
But as someone else pointed out, we've got to use that available cap room to try to sign our own guys. Schaub, Brown, and Barwin don't count against the cap in 2013 because they'll be free agents.

Thats a big chunck of change going to those three - and if all they have is $24.8m to spend among them , I dont believe its enough to keep all three.


Who else is in the final year of their deal this year ?! I believe Rashad Butler will also be a FA.


I can see them asking a couple guy's to take pay cuts or extending them to free up space - Antonio Smith ? OD ? Maybe Wade Smith let go ....

The following year you have Cushing coming up as a FA .... Its gonna be costly to keep him.

The Medic01
06-23-2012, 08:14 PM
I hate that part of the offseason. I mean ESPN said we have 25 mil then this guys like nope only 3 mil next month someone's gonna write something saying we have 15mil. No one knows its impossible to know. Leave it alone.

badboy
06-23-2012, 11:11 PM
Thats a big chunck of change going to those three - and if all they have is $24.8m to spend among them , I dont believe its enough to keep all three.


Who else is in the final year of their deal this year ?! I believe Rashad Butler will also be a FA.


I can see them asking a couple guy's to take pay cuts or extending them to free up space - Antonio Smith ? OD ? Maybe Wade Smith let go ....

The following year you have Cushing coming up as a FA .... Its gonna be costly to keep him.Butler and Cody.

I don't understand what happened o all the money that was supposedly set aside to go towards Mario Williams if he had wnated to remain a Texan? Was that comprised of players who were gonna be cut and were not? I thought AJ's new renegotiated deal was for $ to be used this season. Even if part of Winston's contract costs towards cap wasn't there a significant savings and also with Jacoby and Demeco? All of Brisiel's 2011 salary slot should be there. This is very confusing.

CloakNNNdagger
06-23-2012, 11:44 PM
Thats a big chunck of change going to those three - and if all they have is $24.8m to spend among them , I dont believe its enough to keep all three.


Who else is in the final year of their deal this year ?! I believe Rashad Butler will also be a FA.


I can see them asking a couple guy's to take pay cuts or extending them to free up space - Antonio Smith ? OD ? Maybe Wade Smith let go ....

The following year you have Cushing coming up as a FA .... Its gonna be costly to keep him.




2013 Salaries:

Antonio Smith.....6 mil

Owen Daniels......4 mil

Wade Smith........3 mil


[and if Antoine Caldwell does well, he will become a FA after this year]

badboy
06-23-2012, 11:57 PM
2013 Salaries:

Antonio Smith.....6 mil

Owen Daniels......4 mil

Wade Smith........3 mil$13m +current salary should get you Schaub and maybe Barwin. All those savings from Brisiel, Ryans, AJ, JJ, etc should get you D. Brown & maybe Butler.

We would have to draft a TE for sure.

redwhiteblue
06-24-2012, 08:00 AM
The reason to not roll over your unused money is this: if your salary cap is 120, and you roll over 3, it is 123. Reporters are saying there is a hard cap and it went down this year and may not go up at all next year. So if you spend 123 this year, that means you will just have to make more cuts next year to get back under the cap. It your credit card limit was always 5,000 and one month they raised it to 7,000, you could spend the extra money, but then when it lowers back to 5,000 next month you have to make some sacrifices to pay the bill or be stuck with a bunch of fees

CloakNNNdagger
06-24-2012, 09:49 AM
The reason to not roll over your unused money is this: if your salary cap is 120, and you roll over 3, it is 123. Reporters are saying there is a hard cap and it went down this year and may not go up at all next year. So if you spend 123 this year, that means you will just have to make more cuts next year to get back under the cap. It your credit card limit was always 5,000 and one month they raised it to 7,000, you could spend the extra money, but then when it lowers back to 5,000 next month you have to make some sacrifices to pay the bill or be stuck with a bunch of fees

The 2011 salary cap was $120.375 million (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7744901/nfl-soaring-revenues-coincide-salary-cap-growth)


Jason La Canfora
Salary cap set at $120.6 million for 2012 (http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/03/11/salary-cap-set-at-120-6-million-for-2012/)



Tigre from "South of the Border" asks about new provisions allowing NFL teams to carry over unused salary-cap space to future years. He wonders why a team would ever decide against carrying over some of the unused allotment.

Mike Sando: NFL teams have, for years, tried to push unused cap space into future seasons. They previously did this by writing into players' contracts "likely to be earned" incentives that were, despite the label, very unlikely to be achieved. John Clayton explained the practice in detail back in 2004.

The new labor agreement legitimizes how teams carry over unused cap space. Teams simply tell the league how much unused cap space they would like to carry over.

Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt recently explained some of the particulars. Clayton provided numbers as they pertain to the 2012 season in this update.

Any team failing to carry over unused space might appear cheap, but carrying over the maximum would not necessarily make a team less cheap. It would not affect spending, only the amount a team could spend.

Salary-cap machinations are not always straightforward. A team could conceivably decide against carrying over unused room to accommodate late-hitting incentives, a contract option or the acceleration of guaranteed money.

Still sounds like there is nothing stopping a team from spending their additional carry over unused cap monies without penalty, except for an owner's lightened 2012 wallet.

badboy
06-24-2012, 10:32 AM
I cannot remember what the penalty is if NFL team goes over cap. There is a tax cap in the NBA but many choose to go over & pay the "tax".

drs23
06-24-2012, 10:55 AM
I cannot remember what the penalty is if NFL team goes over cap. There is a tax cap in the NBA but many choose to go over & pay the "tax".

As was explained to me the NFL has a *hard cap* as in non negotiable. A player has to go, take a pay cut or the contract(s) that put a team over are not ratified by the league. Someone with a better handle on it will explain it better, I'm sure.

Lucky
06-24-2012, 11:40 AM
Thats a big chunck of change going to those three - and if all they have is $24.8m to spend among them , I dont believe its enough to keep all three.
Sure it would be. The initial year in a long term deal is usually the lowest cap value. $8+ million per player in the first year should easily be enough. Yes, the average of the deals may exceed $8 million/season. But, that would not be an issue in 2013.

steelbtexan
06-24-2012, 01:41 PM
Most teams are able to keep 10-12 core players.

1. Schaub 2. Foster 3. AJ 4. D.Brown 5. Myers

6. Watt 7. Cush 8. Barwin 9. JoJo 10. Manning

If these players are let go for cap reasons, Rick and whoever the Texans cap guy is should be fired.

Looking at the numbers posted above, the Texans have the cap room to trade for Harvin.

badboy
06-24-2012, 08:45 PM
The 2011 salary cap was $120.375 million (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7744901/nfl-soaring-revenues-coincide-salary-cap-growth)


Jason La Canfora
Salary cap set at $120.6 million for 2012 (http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/03/11/salary-cap-set-at-120-6-million-for-2012/)





Still sounds like there is nothing stopping a team from spending their additional carry over unused cap monies without penalty, except for an owner's lightened 2012 wallet.So the avg NFL team's escalators are going to be no more than $300,000? Seems silly.

badboy
06-24-2012, 08:46 PM
As was explained to me the NFL has a *hard cap* as in non negotiable. A player has to go, take a pay cut or the contract(s) that put a team over are not ratified by the league. Someone with a better handle on it will explain it better, I'm sure.Yeah, that sound right. i think I got that explanation also, deal not approved by NFL.

Lucky
06-24-2012, 10:04 PM
Looking at the numbers posted above, the Texans have the cap room to trade for Harvin.
Why would the Texans trade for Percy Harvin? He's not a downfield receiver and he's a bad fit for this offense. I'm not even getting into the drug and attitude issues. Makes zero sense.

Rey
06-24-2012, 10:30 PM
Why would the Texans trade for Percy Harvin? He's not a downfield receiver and he's a bad fit for this offense. I'm not even getting into the drug and attitude issues. Makes zero sense.

I disagree he's a bad fit for the offense. They went out and spent a draft pick on Keyshawn Martin and he's basically a poor man's Harvin.

Other issues aside.

Lucky
06-25-2012, 01:36 AM
I disagree he's a bad fit for the offense. They went out and spent a draft pick on Keyshawn Martin and he's basically a poor man's Harvin.
Martin is not an outside receiver, either. If the Texans were to trade for a WR (which I don't think they would do), it wouldn't be a slot receiver.

Rey
06-25-2012, 01:54 AM
Martin is not an outside receiver, either. If the Texans were to trade for a WR (which I don't think they would do), it wouldn't be a slot receiver.

I was responding to the part about him not fitting the offense. That simply isn't true.

And I'm pretty sure Martin will play outside some. If kubiak lines trindon up out wide I think it's safe to assume Martin could see action out there as well.

Corrosion
06-25-2012, 03:01 AM
Why would the Texans trade for Percy Harvin? He's not a downfield receiver and he's a bad fit for this offense. I'm not even getting into the drug and attitude issues. Makes zero sense.

Thats exactly why he is a good fit for this offense for the most part but rely upon route combinations and crisp route running to create openings.

With Harvin's open field ability and the fact that he would be put in open holes undeneath quite often (Look at OD) giving him many opportunities to make plays after the catch.


Thats not to say I think they will make a trade for him .... just think he would be a really good fit. Also think they could plug him in the slot .... with great success.

Norg
06-25-2012, 04:54 AM
See below.



Yeah , what does that say about the Texans "window of opportunity"?

Its obvious the Tits and Dolts will have the means to close the gap in talent next year while the Texans may take a step back.


It could be this season or bust .... if they cant figure out how to solve the cap issues.

has long has u have a elite QB u can pretty much punch your ticket in for the playoffs

the divison may catch up hell maybe it was already the same level last year but its all about the decesions u make on each offseason each year on if your team will stay on top and health of course

Norg
06-25-2012, 04:56 AM
Most teams are able to keep 10-12 core players.

1. Schaub 2. Foster 3. AJ 4. D.Brown 5. Myers

6. Watt 7. Cush 8. Barwin 9. JoJo 10. Manning

If these players are let go for cap reasons, Rick and whoever the Texans cap guy is should be fired.

Looking at the numbers posted above, the Texans have the cap room to trade for Harvin.


depending on how things play out Schaub & manning wont be core players for to much longer

Lucky
06-25-2012, 07:47 AM
Thats exactly why he is a good fit for this offense for the most part but rely upon route combinations and crisp route running to create openings.
How is that Percy Harvin? His average yards per reception in 2011 was 11.1 yards. Harvin's yards after catch was 6.5 yards. That means, on average, Harvin caught the ball 4.6 yards down the field. How crisp can your route be in 4.6 yards? Harvin's forte is the WR screen. And that's not worth trading a draft pick the Texans may one day need to use on an outside WR.

CloakNNNdagger
06-25-2012, 09:10 AM
depending on how things play out Schaub & manning wont be core players for to much longer

Manning??........he's signed through 2014 season.

steelbtexan
06-25-2012, 11:24 AM
How is that Percy Harvin? His average yards per reception in 2011 was 11.1 yards. Harvin's yards after catch was 6.5 yards. That means, on average, Harvin caught the ball 4.6 yards down the field. How crisp can your route be in 4.6 yards? Harvin's forte is the WR screen. And that's not worth trading a draft pick the Texans may one day need to use on an outside WR.

He caught 87 balls last yr with a bad QB situation. He also is a really good KR/PR. (Much better than Jacoby)

What WR 2/3 have the Texans had in their history that's better than Harvin?

Harvin is small so his ability to block may be limited.

Rey
06-25-2012, 12:46 PM
How is that Percy Harvin? His average yards per reception in 2011 was 11.1 yards. Harvin's yards after catch was 6.5 yards. That means, on average, Harvin caught the ball 4.6 yards down the field. How crisp can your route be in 4.6 yards?


What?????

C'mon Lucky...That doesn't make any sense at all.

If Harvin catches a 30 yard pass one play and then catches a WR screen at the LOS that goes for 6 yards that's 18 yards per reception with 3 yards of YAC average....


That does not mean that he is catching the ball 15 yards down the field with 3 yards of YAC on each play...

Not even sure what you are saying here. You're reaching now, because this is 'wth?' territory...

Yes he catches short passes quite often. But I've never heard of a team not liking a guy because he's capable of catching short passes and doing something with them.

Wolf
06-25-2012, 02:28 PM
Flat salary cap will force NFL teams to restructure rosters


Now that minicamps are over, teams should have a relatively clear indication of the role they would like each player to have for the upcoming season. With the Houston Texans, we all know that Arian Foster is the main running back and will play a huge role this year and for many years to come. However, the Texans have another quality runner in Ben Tate. Since Foster is the bona fide star (with a fat new contract to prove it), Tate does not have a long-term future in Houston. Most executives in the league know Tate is a quality player and has a modest second-round contract, making him extremely valuable for another team in need of a full-time running back.

Houston could wait for Tate to become a free agent -- eventually collecting a compensatory pick (assuming they do not sign any players in that free-agent period) -- while knowing that in the mean time they have a great backup runner if something unfortunate were to happen to Foster. Or they could make him available right now and parlay Tate into a future asset, which might be the best way to stay ahead of the flat cap.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a1b370/article/flat-salary-cap-will-force-teams-to-restructure-rosters?module=HP11_cp

badboy
06-25-2012, 03:47 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a1b370/article/flat-salary-cap-will-force-teams-to-restructure-rosters?module=HP11_cpTate makes less than 1/2 million how will that benefit cap? Also reduces trade opportunites like the Steeler WR because we would need to dump or trade significant money to fit under cap.

Dutchrudder
06-25-2012, 04:12 PM
Next offseason will be the time to move Tate. He will be going into the last year of his rookie deal, and will have another good season under his belt. I think people around the league will be impressed with his abilities and he will warrant a late 1st round pick or a 2nd. If he gets hurt, or his value drops for some reason, then we can hold onto him and let him hit free agency instead. Getting a 3rd or 4th comp pick for him will be decent, given the value he brings to the team in the mean time. It's really a win-win for us, assuming he doesn't get injured.

badboy
06-25-2012, 04:34 PM
Next offseason will be the time to move Tate. He will be going into the last year of his rookie deal, and will have another good season under his belt. I think people around the league will be impressed with his abilities and he will warrant a late 1st round pick or a 2nd. If he gets hurt, or his value drops for some reason, then we can hold onto him and let him hit free agency instead. Getting a 3rd or 4th comp pick for him will be decent, given the value he brings to the team in the mean time. It's really a win-win for us, assuming he doesn't get injured.Agreed. We could use a lower round on RB to replace him and have 2 firsts, a second and two thirds.

Lucky
06-25-2012, 06:55 PM
C'mon Lucky...That doesn't make any sense at all.

Yes he catches short passes quite often.
Basically, all Harvin catches is short passes. He hasn't developed as a WR in college or three seasons in the NFL. Not that he can't be used as a weapon. But, you have to design plays for him. Reverses, bubble screens, short slants and outs. He doesn't run WCO routes. He's not a WCO WR. The Texans may draft a guy like that in the 4th round or later (and they have), but they're not going to send a high pick to Minnesota for a 4th year player who still hasn't learned the WR position.

ObsiWan
06-26-2012, 01:34 AM
Next offseason will be the time to move Tate. He will be going into the last year of his rookie deal, and will have another good season under his belt. I think people around the league will be impressed with his abilities and he will warrant a late 1st round pick or a 2nd. If he gets hurt, or his value drops for some reason, then we can hold onto him and let him hit free agency instead. Getting a 3rd or 4th comp pick for him will be decent, given the value he brings to the team in the mean time. It's really a win-win for us, assuming he doesn't get injured.

ummm... quick question: When was the last time some team gave up a 1st round pick for a RB?? Help me out here because - in this pass-happy NFL - no one comes immediately to my mind.

Corrosion
06-26-2012, 04:14 AM
Basically, all Harvin catches is short passes. He hasn't developed as a WR in college or three seasons in the NFL. Not that he can't be used as a weapon. But, you have to design plays for him. Reverses, bubble screens, short slants and outs. He doesn't run WCO routes. He's not a WCO WR. The Texans may draft a guy like that in the 4th round or later (and they have), but they're not going to send a high pick to Minnesota for a 4th year player who still hasn't learned the WR position.

Whens the last time you saw a team trade a high draft pick for any player .... Draft picks in the NFL are too valuable because of cap issues. If Minny nets a 4th rounder for Harvin I'd be surprised. Pending he's moved at all.

powda
06-26-2012, 04:28 AM
Whens the last time you saw a team trade a high draft pick for any player .... Draft picks in the NFL are too valuable because of cap issues. If Minny nets a 4th rounder for Harvin I'd be surprised. Pending he's moved at all.

Thats crazy talk.

And Harvin routinely catches short passes because since childress left they run a kindergarten offense with a rookie quarterback they dont trust.

Dutchrudder
06-26-2012, 10:44 AM
ummm... quick question: When was the last time some team gave up a 1st round pick for a RB?? Help me out here because - in this pass-happy NFL - no one comes immediately to my mind.

By all accounts, Cleveland's 2nd, #37, was on the table for Tate this offseason. Now there are rumors they offered #22 instead, but the Texans declined.

The Saints gave up a 2nd and a future 1st to the Patriots so they could take Ingram. Not exactly the same, but they were willing to pay a lot for an unproven rookie on a 4 year deal.

I think Tate will be worth something next offseason, probably in the range of a 2nd, which is plenty IMO, but if there are multiple suitors bidding, his value could be a 1st.

Corrosion
06-26-2012, 06:23 PM
Thats crazy talk.

And Harvin routinely catches short passes because since childress left they run a kindergarten offense with a rookie quarterback they dont trust.

Since thats crazy talk ..... Name a player who's been traded in the past 5 years that fetched more than a 4th rounder.


I wouldnt mind Harvin playing the slot in this offense (not that I think it happens).... but his value is what it is in terms of draft considerations. ~4th rounder.

drunkcookie
06-26-2012, 08:10 PM
Since thats crazy talk ..... Name a player who's been traded in the past 5 years that fetched more than a 4th rounder.




Does the 2007 offseason count? Or was the five years intentional?

In 2007, five years and three months ago: Schaub = two 2nd rounders ('07 and '08)...

CloakNNNdagger
06-26-2012, 08:37 PM
Since thats crazy talk ..... Name a player who's been traded in the past 5 years that fetched more than a 4th rounder.


I wouldnt mind Harvin playing the slot in this offense (not that I think it happens).... but his value is what it is in terms of draft considerations. ~4th rounder.


I'm not going to try to extrapolate Harvin's trade value from this. But Carson Palmer was traded by the Bengals to the Raiders just before last year's deadline for a 1st and a 2nd (would have been another 1st if the Raiders would have reached the AFC playoffs)..........but again that was the Raiders.:hankpalm:

Lucky
06-26-2012, 08:47 PM
ummm... quick question: When was the last time some team gave up a 1st round pick for a RB?? Help me out here because - in this pass-happy NFL - no one comes immediately to my mind.
In 2002, the Saints traded Ricky Williams for (2) 1st round picks. That's the last time I remember.

powda
06-26-2012, 11:13 PM
Since thats crazy talk ..... Name a player who's been traded in the past 5 years that fetched more than a 4th rounder.


I wouldnt mind Harvin playing the slot in this offense (not that I think it happens).... but his value is what it is in terms of draft considerations. ~4th rounder.

The name Jared Allen immediately comes to mind...and that was a LOT more then a 4th round pick. There are plenty of players traded for more then a 4th round pick. The problem is when you trade for a player your not just getting the player...your getting his contract. That increases Harvin's value as he is still on a rookie contract (underpaid).

I dont think i'm overrating Harvin when I say a late first to a late second round pick is arguably his worth. I think this is a prime example of a quality player undervalued because he is underexposed in this region and plays for a bad team.

If you were the vikes gm, you had to trade Harvin, and all you asked for was a 4th round pick two things would happen:

Every team in the NFL would call you to make the deal

,and

When your fired and run out of town fans would cite the stupidity of the trade again and again (much like Casserly and the Buchannon trade.)

Kaiser Toro
06-27-2012, 12:08 AM
2010
Brandon Marshall two 2nds
Donovan McNabb a 2nd and a 3rd, iirc
Anquan Boldin (packaged with a 5th) a 3rd and a 4th
Antonio Cromartie a 3rd

2009
Richard Seymour 1st

No RBs, but Harvin ain't exactly a RB

ChampionTexan
06-27-2012, 01:24 AM
2010
Brandon Marshall two 2nds
Donovan McNabb a 2nd and a 3rd, iirc
Anquan Boldin (packaged with a 5th) a 3rd and a 4th
Antonio Cromartie a 3rd

2009
Richard Seymour 1st

No RBs, but Harvin ain't exactly a RB

And Brandon Marshall was traded again earlier this year for two third round picks.

Nobody's going to give up a first for Harvin, but he would draw alot of interest if available. I fully expect him to be on the Vikings opening day roster, but if they did decide to let him go, I believe they'd do considerably better than a 4th.

KMG 365
07-01-2012, 06:26 PM
Updated cap space for all 32 teams. Texans remain at $4.05 million.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a421db/article/available-salary-cap-space-for-all-32-nfl-teams?campaign=Twitter_atl