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steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 10:18 AM
He's asking to be traded according to PFT.

Would you trade for him an what would you be willing to give up for him.

I would give up next yrs #1 for him.

Picking 32nd you will not find a player as good as Harvin at that spot. Harvin would solve the WR/KR/PR problems. The Texans would have to clear cap room. But Harvin is worth it. IMHO

HOU-TEX
06-20-2012, 10:21 AM
Dude's as about as injury prone as it gets. Unless it's a 3rd day pick we're trading....heck no

TEXANRED
06-20-2012, 10:21 AM
Hell yeah! Harvin is a complete player. Never going to happen though.

Marcus
06-20-2012, 10:22 AM
Picking 32nd, ay?

LOL You're pretty confident today.;)

chicagotexan2
06-20-2012, 10:23 AM
Dude's as about as injury prone as it gets. Unless it's a 3rd day pick we're trading....heck no

Right here. Yes he's explosive, but he's also injury prone and too many concussions so unless it's a trade for a lower pick no thanks..

NCTexan
06-20-2012, 10:24 AM
If they trade him it'll be after this season, not before. Just doesn't make sense to trade him away with 2 years left on the cheap and no other strong recieving option.

Rey
06-20-2012, 10:28 AM
Dude's as about as injury prone as it gets. Unless it's a 3rd day pick we're trading....heck no

Since his rookie season he's only completely missed 3 games...

TheGoldenGreek
06-20-2012, 10:28 AM
I'd love to trade for him. I don't think the Vikings will though. There's no rule saying you have to trade a player that requests a trade.

Carr Bombed
06-20-2012, 10:29 AM
Two statements...

No and HELL NO.

Sorry, but the last thing we need is a injury prone team cancer, I'd rather roll with the unproven young talent that we have... and he isn't a complete player either.

blanco2424
06-20-2012, 10:39 AM
This guy has a history of problems from college to the NFL. No way would Smith get a guy with this kind of history. Injury prone yes, but the major problem is he wants a new contract that we can't give.

HTown2ATX
06-20-2012, 10:43 AM
Two statements...

No and HELL NO.

Sorry, but the last thing we need is a injury prone team cancer, I'd rather roll with the unproven young talent that we have... and he isn't a complete player either.

Hasn't he missed less time than Andre (not at all knocking on 'Dre) and when has he been a "cancer"? Has he pulled some TO antics or something? I don't remember hearing that. He's not squeaky clean *gasp* but still, if the price is right, I would want to look into it.

aussie_texan
06-20-2012, 10:46 AM
I would trade a 2nd for him. Considering we will have numerous compensatory picks next year. I wouldnt give up a first for a 2nd wr as his never gonna be that 6.2ft 220lbs no1 wideout.

Rey
06-20-2012, 10:50 AM
I can understand the injury prone thing since he has had some injury issues (even though he's only completely missed three games in his career), but where is this team cancer stuff and problem guy coming from?

Texan_Bill
06-20-2012, 10:53 AM
Hasn't he missed less time than Andre (not at all knocking on 'Dre) and when has he been a "cancer"? Has he pulled some TO antics or something? I don't remember hearing that. He's not squeaky clean *gasp* but still, if the price is right, I would want to look into it.

It's not about how much time he's missed. With Harvin, if it's not his ribs it's his shoulder. If not his shoulder, it's the migrane headaches and so forth. In short, it's always something with him.

Thats what people refer to when calling him injury prone.

drunkcookie
06-20-2012, 11:00 AM
Wow...it's amazing how a player who has missed a total of three games in his three year career can be considered "injury prone", esspecially seeing how one of those games was due to a migraine headache, not an "injury".. if anything he may be "migraine prone"...

Do people just regurgitate everything they hear without verifying its validity?

drunkcookie
06-20-2012, 11:03 AM
It's not about how much time he's missed. With Harvin, if it's not his ribs it's his shoulder. If not his shoulder, it's the migrane headaches and so forth. In short, it's always something with him.

Thats what people refer to when calling him injury prone.

You just described every player in the NFL...mario williams, brian cushing, arian foster, matt schaub (who was already banged up before going out), TJ Yates...AJ... Every player...

Harvin being injury prone is a myth...he's an NFL player, never 100% healthy...

As for the Texans trading for him? I'm not all for that...

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 11:05 AM
Since his rookie season he's only completely missed 3 games...

Dont let the facts get in the way of posters 1st impressions. Just another case of people talking out of their A**es.

BTW, Harvin has issues with migranes, not concussions. Migranes are why Harvin smokes pot. Pot gives him relief from them. He would be the most dynamic WR2 in Texans history. On 2nd thought, no the Texans couldn't use a guy like that.

beerlover
06-20-2012, 11:08 AM
Trindon Holliday shined in OTA's, not saying he is Percy but could offer substantially more bang for the buck without giving up anything but a roster spot :barman:

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 11:12 AM
Two statements...

No and HELL NO.

Sorry, but the last thing we need is a injury prone team cancer, I'd rather roll with the unproven young talent that we have... and he isn't a complete player either.

Where did you get this info?

Harvin may mot be a complete player. (If he was he wouldn't be available in trade. If he is available.) However he would be the best WR2/PR/KR in team history. There is this other little thingy. (He scores alot of TD's on a bad offense)

ATXtexanfan
06-20-2012, 11:16 AM
no thanks

ThaShark316
06-20-2012, 11:17 AM
Trindon Holliday shined in OTA's, not saying he is Percy but could offer substantially more bang for the buck without giving up anything but a roster spot :barman:

Joking or not, *hits you with chair*

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o121/izko_90/wrestling%20gifs/KurtAngle-ChairShot.gif

GP
06-20-2012, 11:22 AM
Will never happen.

He's touchy. And if he's doing dope to cure his migraines (yeah, whatever...I have a sore pinkie so I need to smoke medicinal weed to ease the pain I suppose) he'll never make this Texans team as long as Bob McNair is breathing.

The more I look at our offense, the more I begin to think we don't particularly need dynamic WRs. Sure, having AJ is a major plus...but overall, after AJ, who is it that we really lean upon in the receiving game??? Tight Ends. That's who.

We just need a solid WR2, a guy like KW, who is a possession WR. Catch the ball, hold onto the ball, move the chains on 3rd down.

The RBs and the TEs do the rest.

Perki-Perk
06-20-2012, 11:37 AM
Will never happen.

He's touchy. And if he's doing dope to cure his migraines (yeah, whatever...I have a sore pinkie so I need to smoke medicinal weed to ease the pain I suppose) he'll never make this Texans team as long as Bob McNair is breathing.

The more I look at our offense, the more I begin to think we don't particularly need dynamic WRs. Sure, having AJ is a major plus...but overall, after AJ, who is it that we really lean upon in the receiving game??? Tight Ends. That's who.

We just need a solid WR2, a guy like KW, who is a possession WR. Catch the ball, hold onto the ball, move the chains on 3rd down.

The RBs and the TEs do the rest.

I don't smoke weed, but I had my first migraine in my entire life last week, and I would take a sore pinkie over that anyday. REAL migraines are extremely painful and dibilitating. When your wife goes, "Oh, I have a migraine" but she's still watching lifetime television, that is very suspect.

badboy
06-20-2012, 11:39 AM
McClain on this morning's 610 session said "no way" due to his history of arguing with his college coaches.

HOU-TEX
06-20-2012, 11:40 AM
Since his rookie season he's only completely missed 3 games...

Eh, don't matter what the stats say. I know he's a boatload of practices and has left games due to something. Migraines, bruised ribs, vomitting, etc.

Like I said, I'll pass unless it's a 3rd day pick.

In the end, this whole discussion is moot. The Vikings have one of the worst WR corps in the league. They'd be nuts to trade him

Rey
06-20-2012, 11:51 AM
In the end, this whole discussion is moot. The Vikings have one of the worst WR corps in the league. They'd be nuts to trade him

Well that kind of flies in the face of everything you said prior to this statement.

He has all these problems, but they'd be nuts to trade him?

Seems like they should have been actively trying to replace him for a while now....

They likely won't trade him because he's a good player.

HOU-TEX
06-20-2012, 11:57 AM
Well that kind of flies in the face of everything you said prior to this statement.

He has all these problems, but they'd be nuts to trade him?

Seems like they should have been actively trying to replace him for a while now....

They likely won't trade him because he's a good player.

Or, it's says a lot about the Vikings WR situation.

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 12:09 PM
He's a really good player, who occasionally argued with his coaches in college. This hasn't been a problem in the pros. Oh by the way Harvin was one of the main reasons that those coaches won a national championship.

Yeah we dont need a playmaker like Harvin on the Texans. He wouldn't help at all. But we could use JJ's of the world.

Texn4life
06-20-2012, 12:11 PM
I say no not because I don't think he could help us, but he's looking for a new contract. Its the same situation as trading for Mike Wallace even though Harvin won't cost as much to sign to a new contract. With having our own players to sign I just don't think you want to add any more to the mix at this point.

Rey
06-20-2012, 12:17 PM
Or, it's says a lot about the Vikings WR situation.

Maybe, maybe not.

They haven't made any major attempts to replace a guy who's not worth the trouble though.

And what does it say about our wr corps that he'd be an upgrade over every currently healthy wr on the roster right now?

Rey
06-20-2012, 12:18 PM
I say no not because I don't think he could help us, but he's looking for a new contract. Its the same situation as trading for Mike Wallace even though Harvin won't cost as much to sign to a new contract. With having our own players to sign I just don't think you want to add any more to the mix at this point.

I agree with that. Unless you are sending significant salary back in return I dont see how this would be a good situation for him either.

Blake
06-20-2012, 12:20 PM
If the Patriots are the only team who will take chances on trouble WR's, they are gonna have a leg up on the competition.

As long as the asking price is reasonable, bring Harvin on over.

DX-TEX
06-20-2012, 12:21 PM
McClain on this morning's 610 session said "no way" due to his history of arguing with his college coaches.

Translation: On a plane now heading for Houston

drunkcookie
06-20-2012, 12:23 PM
When your wife goes, "Oh, I have a migraine" but she's still watching lifetime television, that is very suspect.

Yah, when you have a real bonified migraine you want darkness. You don't want to open your eyes.. i've only had about four migraines ever and they were horrible! I usually sleep with the tube on and had to turn it off... I woke up at 3am moaning. I literally wanted to cry...

Now, I'm not saying migraines are the "only" reason Harvin smokes the stuff, but i've heard from plenty of sources that it does help with migraines... I haven't smoked pot in 15 years (and that was only twice), didn't like it, but if i had some around me while suffering a migraine i'd light up...

Allstar
06-20-2012, 12:26 PM
We're already dreading the impending cap hell next year, yet you want to trade for a guy that will demand a huge deal?

b0ng
06-20-2012, 12:32 PM
Harvin is under contract for 2y for $2.5m. That's very friendly for the team that gets him.

The Pencil Neck
06-20-2012, 12:32 PM
Personally, I'm intrigued by the idea. I wouldn't shoot it down. I'd give it some more thought.

ChampionTexan
06-20-2012, 12:43 PM
We're already dreading the impending cap hell next year, yet you want to trade for a guy that will demand a huge deal?

While my guess is this doesn't happen at all - let alone with the Texans being involved - I would consider it under the condition that Harvin agrees to play out the two years remaining on his contract under the current economic terms. If he can find a another team to give him a big contract in conjunction with a trade, then more power to him. If he'd rather position himself for 2014 free agency as a member of the Vikings offense than the Texans, again - more power to him.

And even then, no way would I give up a first. I'll be shocked if anyone does that.

badboy
06-20-2012, 12:56 PM
I say no not because I don't think he could help us, but he's looking for a new contract. Its the same situation as trading for Mike Wallace even though Harvin won't cost as much to sign to a new contract. With having our own players to sign I just don't think you want to add any more to the mix at this point.I'd be interested in Wallace who is reportedly still not happy if we had something to trade to lower his salary costs & a draft pick. Don't see us having a player Steelers would want.

Jackie Chiles
06-20-2012, 12:58 PM
This is just posturing, he wants a new deal. I seriously doubt the Vikings would trade him even for another teams future first rounder. They need more players like Harvin to help out Ponder, why would they want to make this a Blaine Gabbert situation? He would be awesome for us but its beyond a pipe dream. Plus when that new contract comes we probably couldn't afford him anyway.

Playoffs
06-20-2012, 12:59 PM
He's in the conversation as best slot receiver...

But he wants mo' money and we don't have it.

Dutchrudder
06-20-2012, 01:03 PM
It certainly depends on the asking price, but his production, despite what some may say, it stellar for a #2 WR. He's everything Jacoby Jones wasn't. Check out his stats:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Charts%20and%20Graphs/percyharvinstats.jpg

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/careerstats

He's obviously a very capable #2 WR, even if Christian Ponder is throwing to him, and he's getting better every year in every category. I love seeing that in any player, steady increases in production show lots of potential. He adds another dimension to any team's run-game due to his speed and ability to turn the corner. His return capability is awesome, he only had 16 returns last year, but still averaged 32.5 ypa. He would be a welcome addition to this team, and I would gladly send one of the rookie WRs and a 3rd in return for him. Or send Lestar Jean if they think highly of him. I don't care, he's better than every WR on this team aside from AJ. Too bad we couldn't have traded Eric Winston for him before the cut deadline. That would have been a nice swap.

Edit: one other thing to consider is that if he is looking for more money, any extension salary he gets now will not hit the cap until 2014 when his rookie deal is finished. He's under contract for 2012 and 2013 for a meager amount. The team could prorate a signing bonus to earlier years as part of spreading it out, but his new salary will not have any impact until 2014. That gives us a lot of flexibility.

Dutchrudder
06-20-2012, 01:12 PM
Well, according ot an NFL.com article:

Should Harvin maximize the remaining escalation available, he'll have a base salary of $3,343,750 in 2013 that would bring his earnings (base salary plus workout bonuses) over these next two seasons to $4,313,750. That's still a bargain for the Vikings, who have been reluctant to pay Harvin given their concerns over his ability to remain healthy. If Harvin reports on time and produces at a high level, the team may be inclined to rework his contract next offseason.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829fbc2e/article/percy-harvin-hit-incentives-on-2013-vikings-salary

The article explains all the contract escalators, but the bottom line is that over the next two seasons, he will cost AT LEAST 4.3 million. He's worth every penny and more.

GP
06-20-2012, 01:40 PM
Only on TexansTalk can I have my words used against me on such a regular basis. LOL.

Look, apparently WEED cures everything. My comments were not meant to say migraines do not hurt. DUH. They hurt like hell. I've had only one in my lifetime, and it made me sick to my stomach, I had to be in complete darkness, and I wanted to do anything to make it stop.

My comments were along the lines that somebody who smokes WEED for migraines most likely smoked WEED before they had migraines and will still smoke WEED after migraines are gone or subside. So why take on a guy who might get popped by the NFL's testing policy??? And for all those on here who smoke weed, don't get your undies in a bunch because I honestly could care less if you light up every five minutes...I care when it's one of MY Texans players lighting up (who then might get caught and suspended). So let's see how these words get twisted, I'm sure it will be attempted.

It doesn't simply matter if we have the funds or the cap capacity to make it work. His whole body of work, which includes more than just on-the-field stuff, will be scrutinized. A great #2 WR isn't worth it if he's always in a mood, or smoking weed for migraines, or wanting a bigger deal somewhere else.

What world do we live in where a guy like Percy Harvin is going to want to come play for the Texans for small money? Not gonna' happen, and the reasons are many.

GP
06-20-2012, 01:46 PM
And if there was some miraculous way that we could obtain Percy Harvin...if the powers-that-be had a way of knowing that Harvin would be a great WR for many years to come here...then I'd be fine with a 2nd round pick.

1st round is too expensive, IMO. He's a #2 WR, not a #1.

I still think this team's offense is predicated around a #1 WR like AJ, then we've got the TEs who see a lot of looks on every pass play, with a #2 WR who is a possession-type WR you go to when you need that 5-yard curl route or quick slant to move the chains.

So I don't think we "need" a guy like Harvin. Kubiak is counting on his own draft picks, guys like Martin and Posey, to be the future #2 WR. Cheaper, younger, and hand-picked by Kubiak.

(Waiting for heads to explode because I dared say we don't "need" Harvin).

Dutchrudder
06-20-2012, 01:58 PM
And if there was some miraculous way that we could obtain Percy Harvin...if the powers-that-be had a way of knowing that Harvin would be a great WR for many years to come here...then I'd be fine with a 2nd round pick.

1st round is too expensive, IMO. He's a #2 WR, not a #1.

I still think this team's offense is predicated around a #1 WR like AJ, then we've got the TEs who see a lot of looks on every pass play, with a #2 WR who is a possession-type WR you go to when you need that 5-yard curl route or quick slant to move the chains.

So I don't think we "need" a guy like Harvin. Kubiak is counting on his own draft picks, guys like Martin and Posey, to be the future #2 WR. Cheaper, younger, and hand-picked by Kubiak.

(Waiting for heads to explode because I dared say we don't "need" Harvin).

I don't think we need him either, but he would be great to have.

For comparison's sake, Brandon Marshall was traded from the Dolphins to the Bears for two 3rd round picks. Marshall is a bonafide #1 WR with a lot of attitude issues surrounding him. He had a huge contract too, but he puts up great stats and still didn't fetch a 1st. I think Harvin's value is around there, two 3rds or a 3rd and a player.

The question is, if we were to make the trade, who can we part with that would help the Vikings? Kevin Walter? A rookie WR or Olineman? I dunno, but it's fun to kick around.

VTexan
06-20-2012, 02:04 PM
Can't believe people would turn their nose up on a guy who would complete our offense. Seriously, this is the missing component and for 2 years paying 2.5 mil? We can worry about cap in 2 years IF we sign him. (in my opinion, these next 2-4 years are our best chance to win a superbowl so I take that chance).

Price would not be anymore than a 2nd (receivers don't command that much in the market ex: Marshall, Boldin, etc). I'd package a 3rd/4th (he is better than anyone will we get at that spot) and give them Posey or Martin.

Perki-Perk
06-20-2012, 02:17 PM
And if there was some miraculous way that we could obtain Percy Harvin...if the powers-that-be had a way of knowing that Harvin would be a great WR for many years to come here...then I'd be fine with a 2nd round pick.

1st round is too expensive, IMO. He's a #2 WR, not a #1.

I still think this team's offense is predicated around a #1 WR like AJ, then we've got the TEs who see a lot of looks on every pass play, with a #2 WR who is a possession-type WR you go to when you need that 5-yard curl route or quick slant to move the chains.

So I don't think we "need" a guy like Harvin. Kubiak is counting on his own draft picks, guys like Martin and Posey, to be the future #2 WR. Cheaper, younger, and hand-picked by Kubiak.

(Waiting for heads to explode because I dared say we don't "need" Harvin).

WHAT?!?!?! What do you mean we don't NEED Harvin. How dare you!? :turtle:

Fili
06-20-2012, 02:17 PM
Right when I saw that he requested the trade I wanted him.

Carr Bombed
06-20-2012, 02:20 PM
Where did you get this info?

Harvin may mot be a complete player. (If he was he wouldn't be available in trade. If he is available.) However he would be the best WR2/PR/KR in team history. There is this other little thingy. (He scores alot of TD's on a bad offense)

Hasn't he missed less time than Andre (not at all knocking on 'Dre) and when has he been a "cancer"? Has he pulled some TO antics or something? I don't remember hearing that. He's not squeaky clean *gasp* but still, if the price is right, I would want to look into it.

Amongst those heavily mentioned in the article was Minnesota Vikings wide receiver Percy Harvin, who played for Meyer at Florida from 2006-2008:


It was Harvin, more than anyone, who epitomized the climate Meyer created. While former players say Harvin always was treated differently as a member of Meyer’s Circle of Trust, it was the beginning of his sophomore season—after he helped lead the Gators to the 2006 national title—that it became blatant. That's also when it began to contribute negatively toward team chemistry.

At one point during Harvin's time at Florida, he apparently refused to do conditioning drills with the rest of the team and was involved in an altercation with wide receiver's coach Billy Gonzalez, during which Harvin took Gonzalez by the neck and tossed him to the ground.

Harvin was supposedly never disciplined for those actions. When Harvin missed a game in 2008 due to an allegedly failed drug test, Meyer explained it away as an injury, arguably 'creating a divide between the haves and have-nots on the team.'


http://minnesota.sbnation.com/minnesota-vikings/2012/4/10/2937823/percy-harvin-urban-meyer-florida-football-program-drugs

Yeah, I don't want the guy on my team and I certainly wouldn't give up any assets to get him here either. I'd rather roll with the players that we have, especially since he's a glorified slot receiver. The fact that he's already acting like a brat and demanding trades just highlights his crappy attitude. No thanks.

Rey
06-20-2012, 02:20 PM
My comments were along the lines that somebody who smokes WEED for migraines most likely smoked WEED before they had migraines and will still smoke WEED after migraines are gone or subside.

Just responding to this part.

That's not neccesarily true. I don't think he's missed any time due to failed drug tests and if a person has problems with migraines they will likely try whatever works.

I've read stuff that says mary jane is an immediate remedy.

I don't know how you can make a statement like that....We really don't know..

The Pencil Neck
06-20-2012, 02:53 PM
Just responding to this part.

That's not neccesarily true. I don't think he's missed any time due to failed drug tests and if a person has problems with migraines they will likely try whatever works.

I've read stuff that says mary jane is an immediate remedy.

I don't know how you can make a statement like that....We really don't know..

Yeah, GP. You're making the assumption that the migraines are an excuse to smoke pot. IF he really has migraines and if they're as bad as has been reported, then I'm not going to hold his pot smoking against him because it's like taking any other painkiller to stop the pain.

Sorry, Rey. I piggybacked you.

NCTexan
06-20-2012, 02:57 PM
Yeah, GP. You're making the assumption that the migraines are an excuse to smoke pot. IF he really has migraines and if they're as bad as has been reported, then I'm not going to hold his pot smoking against him because it's like taking any other painkiller to stop the pain.

Sorry, Rey. I piggybacked you.

Piggybacking some more!

I used to get migraines to the point where I was hospitalized for them. I was young (and luckily have mostly grown out of getting them consistently it seems), but if I was still getting them consistently I would not rule anything out to help me deal with them in a different manner. The only way I was dealing with them was losing essentially a week at a time lying in bed on 4 or 5 different drugs. And that was zero fun.

Carr Bombed
06-20-2012, 02:59 PM
Yeah, GP. You're making the assumption that the migraines are an excuse to smoke pot. IF he really has migraines and if they're as bad as has been reported, then I'm not going to hold his pot smoking against him because it's like taking any other painkiller to stop the pain.

Sorry, Rey. I piggybacked you.

Pot smoking is against the rules in the NFL whether he has migraines or not... it's not like the league is going to say "oh you have migraines, we're sorry... toke up". They'll suspend him just the same.

And I don't hold his pot smoking against him either, I think it should be legal and if they (my employers) allowed me to toke up, I would... but I can't, because they don't allow me to and it's illegal.

Carr Bombed
06-20-2012, 03:02 PM
When your wife goes, "Oh, I have a migraine" but she's still watching lifetime television, that is very suspect.

Especially if you're looking for a little nookie. :gun:

infantrycak
06-20-2012, 03:37 PM
Pot smoking is against the rules in the NFL whether he has migraines or not... it's not like the league is going to say "oh you have migraines, we're sorry... toke up". They'll suspend him just the same.

I don't know if they have ever done it with pot but the NFL does grant exceptions for banned substances where they are prescribed as necessary for medical treatment by a Doc. That doesn't apply in this conversation because neither Minnesota or Texas has a medical marijuana statute. But for instance the most hated substance of all steroids have been approved a bunch of times - but you darn well better get it approved before taking it.

Texan_Bill
06-20-2012, 03:39 PM
You just described every player in the NFL...mario williams, brian cushing, arian foster, matt schaub (who was already banged up before going out), TJ Yates...AJ... Every player...

Harvin being injury prone is a myth...he's an NFL player, never 100% healthy...

As for the Texans trading for him? I'm not all for that...

They don't complain about being nicked up nor do they pull themselves out of games.

drunkcookie
06-20-2012, 04:03 PM
My comments were along the lines that somebody who smokes WEED for migraines most likely smoked WEED before they had migraines and will still smoke WEED after migraines are gone or subside.

Ha, maybe you should have made your comments about it more along those lines, because they weren't! Your original comment/analogy was no where in the ball park of the comments quoted above...no where.. (EDIT: actually, reading it again, i can see where you would be going down that line...was just kind of incomplete i guess..)

And i do agree that it's possible he's just a smoker period... And it's a huge risk paying for a player you know for sure can get popped, whether you agree with what that player is doing and why or not...

CloakNNNdagger
06-20-2012, 04:04 PM
There could be a legal alternative for situations like Harvin's available in the future.



Cannabis without the high will smoke out nauseating medical marijuana activists (http://www.examiner.com/article/cannabis-without-the-high-will-smoke-out-nauseating-medical-marijuana-activists)

Michael A. DeVine
Atlanta Law & Politics Examiner

The death knell of the medical marijuana movement?

Seriously, how many pairs of Birkenstocks will be worn out walking the streets to legalize pot that ONLY relieves the nausea of the seriously ill, but doesn't get you high?

Israeli scientists, rather than attempting to cultivate coconut oil that won't make you fat or New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg's food Nazi blood boil, have instead invented "cannabis without the high":

Israeli scientists have cultivated a cannabis plant that doesn't get people stoned in a development that may help those smoking marijuana for medical purposes, a newspaper said on Wednesday.

According to the Maariv daily, the new cannabis looks, smells and even tastes the same, but does not induce any of the feelings normally associated with smoking marijuana that are brought on by the substance THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol.

"It has the same scent, shape and taste as the original plant -- it's all the same -- but the numbing sensation that users are accustomed to has disappeared," said Tzahi Klein, head of development at Tikkun Olam, the firm that developed the species.

"Many of our patients who tried the new plant come back to us and say: 'You tricked me,'" because they assumed they had been given a placebo, he said.

According to Maariv, Tikkun Olam sought to neutralise the effect of the THC and to increase the effect of another substance called CBD, or cannabidiol, which has been shown to help diabetics and to ease various psychiatric disorders.

Not only does it leave users stone-cold sober, it also doesn't induce the munchies, the hunger pangs that the drug's smokers generally suffer.

infantrycak
06-20-2012, 04:08 PM
There could be a legal alternative for situations like Harvin's available in the future.

Discussion for another day or another forum but isn't that basically an admission pot has useful properties and the only reason it is being regulated is because people also receive pleasure?

GP
06-20-2012, 05:05 PM
Just responding to this part.

That's not neccesarily true. I don't think he's missed any time due to failed drug tests and if a person has problems with migraines they will likely try whatever works.

I've read stuff that says mary jane is an immediate remedy.

I don't know how you can make a statement like that....We really don't know..

I can make a statement that smoking WEED (I like to capitalize it because it needs to be capitalized. It's not Tylenol. It's WEED) is bad for a player who is going to be tested in the NFL.

We gripe all.the.time about how "Players should know what's on the PED list, how could he get popped for this...how could he get popped for that." Why not sit here and say that any player we acquire who might be smoking WEED might get busted and draw a lengthy suspension, which means he's doing us no good by sitting out games we needed him for???????????

I don't think it's out of line. I think what IS out of line is how WEED is suddenly the en vogue wonder treatment. It seems to be the answer to everything. LOL.

Yeah, GP. You're making the assumption that the migraines are an excuse to smoke pot. IF he really has migraines and if they're as bad as has been reported, then I'm not going to hold his pot smoking against him because it's like taking any other painkiller to stop the pain.

Sorry, Rey. I piggybacked you.

You ought to hold his pot smoking against him if he's on your team and gets popped and then has to sit out games because of suspension.

Damn straight you should hold his pot smoking against him. If he's not on our team? Then that's awesome...I hope he smokes until it oozes out of his pores and he serves a suspension with any other of the 31 teams out there.

But if he's on MY team and he smokes, no way Jose. I say nope to dope in that scenario. No risk-taking if I'm an owner and it's an issue.

Pot smoking is against the rules in the NFL whether he has migraines or not... it's not like the league is going to say "oh you have migraines, we're sorry... toke up". They'll suspend him just the same.

And I don't hold his pot smoking against him either, I think it should be legal and if they (my employers) allowed me to toke up, I would... but I can't, because they don't allow me to and it's illegal.

I guess I'm really amazed at the level of acceptance toward WEED. It's almost like people find it as a badge of honor or something. I totally don't understand the culture of it. And never will, I suppose. And I'm not willing to try it in order to attempt an understanding of it, either.

My main emphasis, if not my ONLY emphasis is that doing WEED is bad because it's still considered to be a no-no by employers, especially NFL employers. For that reason--since my only true sports love is NFL football--I don't want the Texans doing WEED. We wouldn't want a player doing roids in the off-season and risking not cycling off in time...we wouldn't want a player to light up a fatty and get busted (whether he's tested or busted by a cop, etc.).

Ha, maybe you should have made your comments about it more along those lines, because they weren't! Your original comment/analogy was no where in the ball park of the comments quoted above...no where.. (EDIT: actually, reading it again, i can see where you would be going down that line...was just kind of incomplete i guess..)

And i do agree that it's possible he's just a smoker period... And it's a huge risk paying for a player you know for sure can get popped, whether you agree with what that player is doing and why or not...

No, I shouldn't have to micro-manage every single thing I say. In fact, in your quote (above) you even state that in re-reading what I said you can see what I meant.

What I think is really going on is that there's a contingency of smokers here who are sympathetic to the issue to the point that the issue can't be debated within any confines.

It won't matter how many times I say that I only care about this issue as it affects MY favorite team, nah...all that gets read is that GP says nope to dope for everyone. I'm infringing on people's civil liberties or something...when all I said was that we don't need a smoker on our team if he's using to medically treat a health issue. Ricky Williams had to go find himself in a sweaty tent all over the world, he retired from football too...we don't need smokers, and I'd hope this team would seriously consider that when acquiring players.

Am I naive enough to think our guys aren't smoking? No. I'm saying if we have prior knowledge of a smoker out there whom we are targeting, why go after him and spend the money, the draft pick(s), and risk him getting popped in the future? Seems too risky to me.

Playoffs
06-20-2012, 05:06 PM
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
As Kevin Seifert wrote on ESPN.com, Vikings GM Rick Spielman said today his team has "no interest at all" in trading Percy Harvin. Carry on.

GP
06-20-2012, 05:08 PM
And although I didn't quote him...what CnD posted is so freaking true.

If WEED is medicinal, then let's do the weed that doesn't get us high. Let's see the amount of orders that are placed for weed rather than WEED. ;)

:turtle:

The Pencil Neck
06-20-2012, 05:10 PM
Pot smoking is against the rules in the NFL whether he has migraines or not... it's not like the league is going to say "oh you have migraines, we're sorry... toke up". They'll suspend him just the same.

And I don't hold his pot smoking against him either, I think it should be legal and if they (my employers) allowed me to toke up, I would... but I can't, because they don't allow me to and it's illegal.

Like Cak said, the NFL grants exemptions in certain cases. While Harvin may not be able to toke up in Minnesota, he spends plenty of time in other states and if he wants, he could request an exemption so he could toke up while he was in a state that allowed it.

GP
06-20-2012, 05:26 PM
Like Cak said, the NFL grants exemptions in certain cases. While Harvin may not be able to toke up in Minnesota, he spends plenty of time in other states and if he wants, he could request an exemption so he could toke up while he was in a state that allowed it.

Would he be able to in Texas? Or would he need to vacation somewhere.

Maybe that non-high weed will get released and it will solve that problem for lots of players who need the weed for medicinal purposes. That'd be a good thing.

CloakNNNdagger
06-20-2012, 05:28 PM
Discussion for another day or another forum but isn't that basically an admission pot has useful properties and the only reason it is being regulated is because people also receive pleasure?

I also don't want to get into any deep discussion of legalities of this substance. The Israeli research was strictly in the context of true medicinal use.........treating medical conditions. But the marijuana concern is far from only giving "pleasure." Notwithstanding the concerns over immediate altered cognitive effects, it extends to health concerns of long-term use as it relates to various parts of the body, immunity, cancer and brain anatomy and function.

The Pencil Neck
06-20-2012, 05:47 PM
Would he be able to in Texas? Or would he need to vacation somewhere.


Not legal in Texas. There are 17 states where it's legal. He'd need to go to Arizona, one of the California teams, Detroit, Denver, or one of the New Jersey teams.

Or he'd have to commute in from another state to wherever his team is, which is what I assume he's doing with the Vikings.


Maybe that non-high weed will get released and it will solve that problem for lots of players who need the weed for medicinal purposes. That'd be a good thing.

They've created drugs based on medicinal marijuana but it takes about an hour to take effect as opposed to a few minutes with the regular weed. Weed also has a whole array of chemicals with possible medicinal side-effects while the drugs only contain 1. So the weed may be more beneficial for them than just taking the synthesized drug.

But I'd like to point out that most drugs that actually do something to help with pain or discomfort will get you high.

Personally, I don't drink alcohol or do recreational drugs. If I was in pain, I wouldn't be looking at medical marijuana as a chance to do drugs legally, I'd be looking at it as a way to reduce pain. I think you're concentrating too much on the getting high part and not enough of the pain alleviation part.

Texecutioner
06-20-2012, 06:18 PM
Well that kind of flies in the face of everything you said prior to this statement.

He has all these problems, but they'd be nuts to trade him?

Seems like they should have been actively trying to replace him for a while now....

They likely won't trade him because he's a good player.

Yeah, I"m with you on this one.


Kind of surprised at all of these comments where folks are acting like Harvin is some sort of Chad Jonhnson/Roy Williams type of guy who can't produce or is a team cancer.

You look at the current offense for the Texans and Harvin would be a great fit in my mind. He could go all over the middle of the field and make a ton of plays helping the TE's to get open or to free up AJ fairly easily. Either that, or the TE's would have to be heavily guarded while a guy like Harvin could do a lot of damage. He is a different type of WR than what AJ is for sure, but his skill set is a very good one for this offense that could make it really dynamic. I'd love to make a trade like this.

I'll admit that Harvin has had a few issues, but mainly minor. His attitude isn't great, but it's not horrible either like a lot of other diva WR's around the league. His injury issues are slightly concerning, but only slightly and that is mainly because of his size. He isn't the toughest guy in the world. But overall he'd be a great piece for this offense to really take that extra step to free up so many other guys. We really need another offensive play maker as a receiving threat right now, and I think that Harvin's skill set make him totally worth the risk. People always act like one draft pick is going to ruin your entire draft for some reason. They tend to forget how many 1-3 rounders don't ever amount to anything and end up being wasted picks any way. Apparently people forgot the wildcard piece that Harvin was when Favre and Sidney Rice were both there.

I also think that the Vikings would be wise to trade him if they can get good compensation. His skill set doesn't make their offense that explosive without the other options on the team. Harvin is more of a great piece to have when other pieces are around him sort of like Welker. He isn't that valuable to the Vikings team in their current condition. He would be to the Texans or a team like the Saints though.

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 07:32 PM
http://minnesota.sbnation.com/minnesota-vikings/2012/4/10/2937823/percy-harvin-urban-meyer-florida-football-program-drugs

Yeah, I don't want the guy on my team and I certainly wouldn't give up any assets to get him here either. I'd rather roll with the players that we have, especially since he's a glorified slot receiver. The fact that he's already acting like a brat and demanding trades just highlights his crappy attitude. No thanks.

There's a reason Meyer included him in the teams inner circle. He helped him win a NC. I would take a team full of Harvins if they helped the Texans win a SB.

Check out Dutchs posts and tell me if the $$$$ are reasonable? Is the talent there to be a true difference maker? Would he be an upgrade.

I can believe that some posters would hate him because of his college weed smoking. (Most kids do) The fact that Meyer took Harvin into his inner circle tells me Meyer believed Harvins side of the story over the assistant coaches side. Look, kids do stupid stuff in college. How long are the MB morality gods going to hold things against these kids?

Harvin has been a disciplinary problem in his 3 yrs with the Vikings. The fact that some MB members would rather roll with Walter and 3 rookies (including Jean) that have never played a down of regular season football. Instead of a guy like Harvin who has more playoff experience than any WR on the Texans and caught 80 balls last yr befuddles me. But hey, winning is the most important thing to me for the team I root for, I care about production over character.

BTW, Gary appears to be unhappy with the rookies performance at the OTA's.

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 07:38 PM
Ha, maybe you should have made your comments about it more along those lines, because they weren't! Your original comment/analogy was no where in the ball park of the comments quoted above...no where.. (EDIT: actually, reading it again, i can see where you would be going down that line...was just kind of incomplete i guess..)

And i do agree that it's possible he's just a smoker period... And it's a huge risk paying for a player you know for sure can get popped, whether you agree with what that player is doing and why or not...

A huge risk?

Does this mean that we may miss out on another.

2nd-3rd rd draft pick, Posey/JJ/Harris/Slaton etc.... heck lets include KJ in the discussion. I can be fairly certian that Harvin is a better player than anybody Rick/Gary can draft at 32 especially given their track record of drafting WR's. I think Wade probably could find a guy as good at 32. LOL

Such a huge risk for a proven producer. LOL

Texecutioner
06-20-2012, 07:49 PM
And although I didn't quote him...what CnD posted is so freaking true.

If WEED is medicinal, then let's do the weed that doesn't get us high. Let's see the amount of orders that are placed for weed rather than WEED. ;)

:turtle:

GP, unless you're completely drug free which includes alcohol, I don't think you are in any position to bash the idea of why someone wants or needs to smoke weed in some form. It's less dangerous than drugs like alcohol and tobacco which rake in Billions every year and does help many people deal with chronic illnesses and pain. It's not just some excuse that everyone uses just so they can catch a buzz. The only reason why it's illegal from the NFL's perspective is because it's illegal in the majority of states and cities in this country which is a pretty big government interference on people's casual lives. It's really not that different than if the government decided that salt was illegal due to the sodium in it or something. How long would it take for the NFL to ban players from eating food with salt after that since it's illegal? I don't think that fighting the idea of weed smoke or hemp products is a fair battle here.


I do understand where you're coming from as far as the suspension issues though if he were to get caught with a dirty urine test again. That does have to be considered. However, waving off any criticism for the NFL for it's practices that mimic the government's abuse of authority is not a productive idea to support.

infantrycak
06-20-2012, 08:20 PM
I don't think it's out of line. I think what IS out of line is how WEED is suddenly the en vogue wonder treatment. It seems to be the answer to everything. LOL.

LOL, ummm no. We are sitting at what appears to be nearing the end of a prohibitionist era which is a blink of an eye in pot's use in medicine.

Not going to give you a slew of examples but well over 3000 years ago the Chinese considered pot one of their 50 fundamental medicines. Likewise their are medical records in Egypt dating back 3500 years. Ancient Greece was in on the party as well. Flash forward to here in good ol' USA in 1937:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Drug_bottle_containing_cannbis.jpg/220px-Drug_bottle_containing_cannbis.jpg

The first prohibitions on pot didn't start until the 1920's.

Texan_Bill
06-20-2012, 08:43 PM
LOL, ummm no. We are sitting at what appears to be nearing the end of a prohibitionist era which is a blink of an eye in pot's use in medicine.

Not going to give you a slew of examples but well over 3000 years ago the Chinese considered pot one of their 50 fundamental medicines. Likewise their are medical records in Egypt dating back 3500 years. Ancient Greece was in on the party as well. Flash forward to here in good ol' USA in 1937:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Drug_bottle_containing_cannbis.jpg/220px-Drug_bottle_containing_cannbis.jpg

The first prohibitions on pot didn't start until the 1920's.

Those ancient folks were way hipper than we are. Pot, Orgies, Opium and barfatoriums... Straight up hipster decadence... I think society has devolved.

TheMatrix31
06-20-2012, 09:19 PM
Dude's immature as hell. Forget it. Headcase.

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 09:46 PM
There could be a legal alternative for situations like Harvin's available in the future.

Well, that sure takes the fun out of things. LOL

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 09:49 PM
Discussion for another day or another forum but isn't that basically an admission pot has useful properties and the only reason it is being regulated is because people also receive pleasure?

You are correct sir.

There goes some of the illegal profit those in power make off of keeping it illegal.

Sorry didn't mean to derail this thread.

CloakNNNdagger
06-20-2012, 09:53 PM
Well, that sure takes the fun out of things. LOL


Who am I to criticize. After all, I routinely use cocaine.

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 09:55 PM
Dude's immature as hell. Forget it. Headcase.

A headcase that scores touchdowns in a variety of ways.

Has Harvin ever failed a drug test?

Is he in the NFL's substance abuse program?

If not there's nothing to worry about.

CloakNNNdagger
06-20-2012, 09:56 PM
...................when I'm in surgery............makes surgery easier and more...........enjoyable.

CloakNNNdagger
06-20-2012, 09:58 PM
...............It lessens the pain and bleeding during my rhinoplasties (nasal surgeries)...........thank the Lord for my cocaine............:)

CloakNNNdagger
06-20-2012, 10:02 PM
Not likely the Vikings turn loose.

Wednesday, June 20, 2012
Awaiting Percy Harvin's next move (http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/print?id=59798)
By Kevin Seifert

EDEN PRAIRIE, Minn. -- A whirlwind 24 hours ended Wednesday with the Minnesota Vikings uncertain when they'll next see their best receiver.


Will more playing time help keep star WR Percy Harvin happy in Minnesota?
Percy Harvin apparently bolted the Vikings' mandatory minicamp between the morning and afternoon practice sessions, and coach Leslie Frazier said he was not sure if Harvin would attend the final practice Thursday. The departure raised the stakes of a drama that seemed destined to peter out Wednesday morning after Harvin reported to the Vikings' practice, a day after telling reporters he is unhappy with multiple issues and then privately asking the Vikings for a trade.

Harvin was on the field but did not participate in the Wednesday morning session. After conducting the afternoon session with Harvin nowhere to be seen, Frazier wouldn't say whether the absence was excused. If it wasn't, Harvin could be subject to a $10,000 fine and then an additional $20,000 fine if he skips Thursday's session, according to the NFL's collective bargaining agreement.

"I don't want to get into it until we have a chance to have an extensive conversation," Frazier said, promising that conversation would occur before training camp.

It's early, and again from a historic perspective, these dramas tend to work themselves out more often than they cause extended absences from training camp. But Harvin has proved in three years to be a less-than-predictable personality, and there is no way to know for sure that his emotions will subside over the next month.

Earlier in the day, the Vikings seemed to lay out a set of organizational parameters. Among them:

*The team reiterated its commitment to increasing Harvin's playing time beyond the 58 percent of snaps he played last season. "Yes," offensive coordinator Bill Musgrave said. "Looking forward to it."

*There is almost no chance he will be traded. "We have no interest at all in trading Percy Harvin," general manager Rick Spielman said.

*He isn't likely to get a new contract, if he wants one, until next year. Harvin has two years remaining on his contract, and Spielman said: "We have a history of extending players going into the last year of their contract, and that's been our history."


Spielman pledged to "work out" whatever issues are contributing to Harvin's state of mind, a massage process that happens more often than you probably think inside NFL organizations. Team building is not just about collecting good players and finding quality coaches to guide them. It's about managing the inevitable detours created when you corral competitive and often volatile personalities in the structure of professional sports.

"It's part of the NFL," Spielman said. "There are always going to be some players where you have to deal with specific issues. You deal with them internally and get them resolved and move forward."

Harvin has demonstrated an extreme level of volatility in this instance. Trust me when I tell you that few, if any, members of the organization saw this coming before Tuesday. Before revealing it to a group of reporters Tuesday, Harvin had confided no significant displeasure to any authority figure associated with the team.

That means Harvin can turn off his displeasure as quickly as he turned it on. In some ways, the Vikings would be smart to wait for a bit and see if this blows over. If it doesn't, and Percy Harvin really is going to stay away from training camp until the Vikings trade him, we will be in for a long, long ride.

powda
06-20-2012, 10:08 PM
He got the injury rap because he missed a game for headaches instead of an ankle or whatever. People remember that and consider him soft because of it.

He got the "turd" rep in college. To my knowledge hes had no off field incidents since hes been in the nfl (did I miss a headline?)

He's cheap and he has been an a very good wideout on a team with very bad quarterback play. He would instantly be one of the most electric threats on our team. I'd give up a 2nd round pick in a heartbeat. At least make a call R.S. to findout an asking price.

Texecutioner
06-20-2012, 10:16 PM
He got the injury rap because he missed a game for headaches instead of an ankle or whatever. People remember that and consider him soft because of it.

He got the "turd" rep in college. To my knowledge hes had no off field incidents since hes been in the nfl (did I miss a headline?)

He's cheap and he has been an a very good wideout on a team with very bad quarterback play. He would instantly be one of the most electric threats on our team. I'd give up a 2nd round pick in a heartbeat. At least make a call R.S. to findout an asking price.

At the end of the day, this would only be a pipe dream for the folks like myself who would be for this. Rick Smith does not make big trades like this. He only wants to build through the draft with an occassional trade that usually involves low key players or picks. Harvin doesn't fit the "Ivy League" mentality that Mcnair typically wants on this team.

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 10:24 PM
At the end of the day, this would only be a pipe dream for the folks like myself who would be for this. Rick Smith does not make big trades like this. He only wants to build through the draft with an occassional trade that usually involves low key players or picks. Harvin doesn't fit the "Ivy League" mentality that Mcnair typically wants on this team.

While I agree with this post.

I'm pretty sure JJ,KJ and AJ for that matter weren't recruited by Ivy League schools.

Texan_Bill
06-20-2012, 10:30 PM
A headcase that scores touchdowns in a variety of ways.

Has Harvin ever failed a drug test?

Is he in the NFL's substance abuse program?

If not there's nothing to worry about.

WAIT!!! What???!?!!?

Doc, i'm thinking a little prescription for a) xxx
b)xxx
And finally c)xxx

infantrycak
06-20-2012, 10:31 PM
He got the "turd" rep in college.

His track record is a little more extensive than that. He was twice suspended on his HS football team and then got into a fight in a basketball game which resulted in his being banned from further HS athletics his senior year. Then there is the college stuff (plus having had multiple injuries or ailments every year - some of it non-football related like the migraines such as a sinus infection which kept him out of two games) and testing positive for pot at the combine.

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 10:39 PM
...............It lessens the pain and bleeding during my rhinoplasties (nasal surgeries)...........thank the Lord for my cocaine............:)

Can you give me consultation about the possible benefits of rhinoplasties? LOL

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 10:41 PM
WAIT!!! What???!?!!?

Doc, i'm thinking a little prescription for a) xxx
b)xxx
And finally c)xxx

MSR

Very funny stuff.

Texecutioner
06-20-2012, 10:42 PM
While I agree with this post.

I'm pretty sure JJ,KJ and AJ for that matter weren't recruited by Ivy League schools.

Those were all draft picks other than JJ. Not exactly recruits, but I was being sarcastic any way Steel.

steelbtexan
06-20-2012, 10:46 PM
His track record is a little more extensive than that. He was twice suspended on his HS football team and then got into a fight in a basketball game which resulted in his being banned from further HS athletics his senior year. Then there is the college stuff (plus having had multiple injuries or ailments every year - some of it non-football related like the migraines such as a sinus infection which kept him out of two games) and testing positive for pot at the combine.

Maybe Harvins broken the cycle. (Grown up) He hasn't had any discipline problems in the NFL.

We're talking about the 32nd pick here, not a top 10 pick. The 32nd pick stands a greater chance of busting than Harvin who hasn't gotten in trouble in his 3 yrs in the NFL does. IMHO

Speaking of top 10 picks, what's OkOye up to these days Rick?

powda
06-20-2012, 10:47 PM
His track record is a little more extensive than that. He was twice suspended on his HS football team and then got into a fight in a basketball game which resulted in his being banned from further HS athletics his senior year. Then there is the college stuff (plus having had multiple injuries or ailments every year - some of it non-football related like the migraines such as a sinus infection which kept him out of two games) and testing positive for pot at the combine.

Dudes been out of highschool for quite a while now, and as I said, i'm not aware of any issues in the nfl. Dont get me wrong, im not gonna tell anyone he's a choirboy. But hes got loads more talent then any wr we have not named andre. Instant upgrade. Unfortunately, I understand the Texans brass is far to conservative to make this kinda move. Thats a shame cause with decent qb play he might make a probowl or 2.

The texans have always built around the draft to get young cheap players...Harvin is still both.

Texecutioner
06-20-2012, 10:53 PM
His track record is a little more extensive than that. He was twice suspended on his HS football team and then got into a fight in a basketball game which resulted in his being banned from further HS athletics his senior year. Then there is the college stuff (plus having had multiple injuries or ailments every year - some of it non-football related like the migraines such as a sinus infection which kept him out of two games) and testing positive for pot at the combine.

Hadn't heard of those HS incidents. You're right that it's a full fledge pattern alright. Character concerns are a little more extensive than I previously gauged. I understand the pessimism on his potential contributions to this team when all of that is considered.

I'd give up maybe a 2nd rounder for Harvin though. Mainly because the Texans should be in a win now mode. Put another strong receiving threat on this offense with a healthy Schaub come playoff time, and that's pretty dangerous to face when our defense will be holding teams to low scores. We could probably hold Harvin for about 3 yrs and get some good production out of him while his legs are still really good. He'd be a really nice weapon to utilize all through the middle of the field with all of our other options commanding attention. If AJ goes down again, we're looking at Walter and a bunch of rookies and inexperienced young guys that are still drying to develop as our WR core. There is a good chance that Yates could be throwing to those young guys to if that were to happen.

infantrycak
06-20-2012, 11:24 PM
I was merely filling in some background material. I do think it is enough to eliminate the discussion of 1st or 2nd round picks if the Vikings would even trade.

powda
06-20-2012, 11:38 PM
I was merely filling in some background material. I do think it is enough to eliminate the discussion of 1st or 2nd round picks if the Vikings would even trade.

Was good info I didnt know about. Our 2nd round pick should be late(!)...Harvin would be a #1 wideout on most teams. Id make the trade and not look back.

Texecutioner
06-21-2012, 12:21 AM
Was good info I didnt know about. Our 2nd round pick should be late(!)...Harvin would be a #1 wideout on most teams. Id make the trade and not look back.

I wouldn't classify him as that. He isn't a true #1 to me. He is more of a guy who could really fit well on a team that has a true #1 wideout that commands a lot of attention. Harvin can get open in small spaces and get nice yards after the catch. I don't see him ever being a guy that could carry your receiving core. That's why I said earlier that the Texans, Saints, Lions, and Packers would all be very nice fits for him.

powda
06-21-2012, 12:34 AM
I wouldn't classify him as that. He isn't a true #1 to me. He is more of a guy who could really fit well on a team that has a true #1 wideout that commands a lot of attention. Harvin can get open in small spaces and get nice yards after the catch. I don't see him ever being a guy that could carry your receiving core. That's why I said earlier that the Texans, Saints, Lions, and Packers would all be very nice fits for him.

87 receptions last year 6 tds
354 rushing yards
caught 73% of passes thrown his way (outstanding rate)
Legit return man
threat to score from anywhere on the field
cheap
young

He did it with a rookie qb. You should think of him as a #1 because he IS.

GP
06-21-2012, 05:28 AM
GP, unless you're completely drug free which includes alcohol, I don't think you are in any position to bash the idea of why someone wants or needs to smoke weed in some form. It's less dangerous than drugs like alcohol and tobacco which rake in Billions every year and does help many people deal with chronic illnesses and pain. It's not just some excuse that everyone uses just so they can catch a buzz. The only reason why it's illegal from the NFL's perspective is because it's illegal in the majority of states and cities in this country which is a pretty big government interference on people's casual lives. It's really not that different than if the government decided that salt was illegal due to the sodium in it or something. How long would it take for the NFL to ban players from eating food with salt after that since it's illegal? I don't think that fighting the idea of weed smoke or hemp products is a fair battle here.


I do understand where you're coming from as far as the suspension issues though if he were to get caught with a dirty urine test again. That does have to be considered. However, waving off any criticism for the NFL for it's practices that mimic the government's abuse of authority is not a productive idea to support.

Well, we can't use examples of how this relates to "what if salt is made to be illegal???" because what we have NOW is that WEED is illegal in the NFL right here and now. Let's save the "what if" for another day.

Seriously, the debate should end right there...unless this (once again) gets made into me being a Just Say Nope To Dope all-the-time-every-day-in-every-way sort of guy. Which I'm not. Although I don't use, I don't give a rip if others do.

Again, I could care less if people feel the need for WEED. I don't want my Texans to smoke it...I don't want them getting busted and getting Roger Goodell on their asses for it. Roger don't play. He is mean about substance problems, and right here and now the NFL is saying players better say Nope To Dope.

However, if things don't go well in November...I might be in the market for some grass. Now this thread is going to completely derail. My bad. LOL.

The Pencil Neck
06-21-2012, 10:23 AM
Well, we can't use examples of how this relates to "what if salt is made to be illegal???" because what we have NOW is that WEED is illegal in the NFL right here and now. Let's save the "what if" for another day.

Seriously, the debate should end right there...unless this (once again) gets made into me being a Just Say Nope To Dope all-the-time-every-day-in-every-way sort of guy. Which I'm not. Although I don't use, I don't give a rip if others do.

Again, I could care less if people feel the need for WEED. I don't want my Texans to smoke it...I don't want them getting busted and getting Roger Goodell on their asses for it. Roger don't play. He is mean about substance problems, and right here and now the NFL is saying players better say Nope To Dope.

However, if things don't go well in November...I might be in the market for some grass. Now this thread is going to completely derail. My bad. LOL.

You seem to totally miss the point.

It isn't illegal.

If you play by the rules, have the right requirements, and get the proper permissions, it's totally legal to smoke pot.

You won't get busted. Goodell can come to your house and you can toke up in front of him and he won't get in your ass because he's already given permission.

It's exactly the same thing as Hartmann taking Ritalin. As long as he gets permission to take it, he's fine. If he doesn't get permission, if he doesn't follow the rules, then he gets suspended.

If pot is medically prescribed and you notify the NFL that it's been prescribed, you can smoke it.

The1ApplePie
06-21-2012, 11:03 AM
WRs and QBs win championships in the modern NFL, so I would be all for it. Look at all the outside weapons the last three champs have had.

The Texans have an awesome young defense and a bell-cow RB, but the WRs are an aging AJ, a mediocre KW, and a few unknowns like Posey.

drs23
06-21-2012, 04:23 PM
There could be a legal alternative for situations like Harvin's available in the future.


Israeli scientists have cultivated a cannabis plant that doesn't get people stoned in a development that may help those smoking marijuana for medical purposes, a newspaper said on Wednesday.

According to the Maariv daily, the new cannabis looks, smells and even tastes the same, but does not induce any of the feelings normally associated with smoking marijuana that are brought on by the substance THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol.

"It has the same scent, shape and taste as the original plant -- it's all the same -- but the numbing sensation that users are accustomed to has disappeared," said Tzahi Klein, head of development at Tikkun Olam, the firm that developed the species.

"Many of our patients who tried the new plant come back to us and say: 'You tricked me,'" because they assumed they had been given a placebo, he said.

According to Maariv, Tikkun Olam sought to neutralise the effect of the THC and to increase the effect of another substance called CBD, or cannabidiol, which has been shown to help diabetics and to ease various psychiatric disorders.

Not only does it leave users stone-cold sober, it also doesn't induce the munchies, the hunger pangs that the drug's smokers generally suffer.

Well, that sure takes the fun outta getting well, now doesn't it? :kitten:

ckhouston
06-21-2012, 04:31 PM
No.

Texecutioner
06-21-2012, 05:40 PM
87 receptions last year 6 tds
354 rushing yards
caught 73% of passes thrown his way (outstanding rate)
Legit return man
threat to score from anywhere on the field
cheap
young

He did it with a rookie qb. You should think of him as a #1 because he IS.

Yeah, those are pretty good numbers considering the offense that he was in, but are you honestly telling me that you think that Percy Harvin is a true #1 WR that can be that guy for years? He is more of a gadget WR that can make get yards after the catch, but he isn't a deep threat WR and never will be. Most of the time you want your #1 WR to be a versatile WR that can do it all. Harvin will never be a guy that can do it all in my opinion. I don't think you'll find many others that would agree with you there either. Hell, just in this thread alone there are only a few people (Which includes me) that would even want him as a #2 WR. I think that's crazy considering the fact that Walter is our #2 WR and he is a pretty bad one at that.

powda
06-21-2012, 05:57 PM
Yeah, those are pretty good numbers considering the offense that he was in, but are you honestly telling me that you think that Percy Harvin is a true #1 WR that can be that guy for years? He is more of a gadget WR that can make get yards after the catch, but he isn't a deep threat WR and never will be. Most of the time you want your #1 WR to be a versatile WR that can do it all. Harvin will never be a guy that can do it all in my opinion. I don't think you'll find many others that would agree with you there either. Hell, just in this thread alone there are only a few people (Which includes me) that would even want him as a #2 WR. I think that's crazy considering the fact that Walter is our #2 WR and he is a pretty bad one at that.

Its funny that you refer to the opinions in this thread...this morning on the sports radio stations(3) the consensus was just the opposite. If he can be had, get him. He has speed to burn so he is a deep threat (although his average yards wasnt great this year). Think of him like desean jackson. My only onfield concern with the guy in our offense would be his ability to block - and i'm assuming hes a poor blocker due to his size- dont honestly know.

Texecutioner
06-21-2012, 06:13 PM
Its funny that you refer to the opinions in this thread...this morning on the sports radio stations(3) the consensus was just the opposite. If he can be had, get him. He has speed to burn so he is a deep threat (although his average yards wasnt great this year). Think of him like desean jackson. My only onfield concern with the guy in our offense would be his ability to block - and i'm assuming hes a poor blocker due to his size- dont honestly know.

He isn't and never will be the type of impact player as a deep threat that Desean Jackson is. Desean was a huge deep threat going all the way back to his college days. Harvin was never a big deep threat in college. He played a WR/RB type of WR that made a living off of short pass routes where he made yards after the catch. He was like a RB that could catch a lot of passes. He isn't that much different in the NFL. He has gotten better as far as being a down field threat, but that will never be his strength as a WR. My entire characterization of his skill set though is exactly what I think would work great on the Texans team, because we already have AJ as a great deep threat and we wouldn't need that out of Harvin. I think he'd be a great fit here skill wise, but I do agree that there are character concerns. With him being so young though, I'd take that risk since we're in "win now" mode or at least we need to be.

powda
06-21-2012, 06:53 PM
He isn't and never will be the type of impact player as a deep threat that Desean Jackson is. Desean was a huge deep threat going all the way back to his college days. Harvin was never a big deep threat in college. He played a WR/RB type of WR that made a living off of short pass routes where he made yards after the catch. He was like a RB that could catch a lot of passes. He isn't that much different in the NFL. He has gotten better as far as being a down field threat, but that will never be his strength as a WR. My entire characterization of his skill set though is exactly what I think would work great on the Texans team, because we already have AJ as a great deep threat and we wouldn't need that out of Harvin. I think he'd be a great fit here skill wise, but I do agree that there are character concerns. With him being so young though, I'd take that risk since we're in "win now" mode or at least we need to be.

Harvin isnt the return man jackson is but their body types and styles are very similar. Harvin is young and getting better...to this point in their careers (3yrs) Harvin is a better reciever then jackson was(production). If your looking for a #1 wideout in the mold of fitzgerald, Harvin's not your guy. But a cursory look through team rosters leads me to believe he'd be a #1 wr for 15 teams and in the mix for 3-4 more. Fantasy football mags routinely have him ranked in the top 12-20 range. I realize those are just mags so I take it with a grain of salt but he is legit. We agree the Texans should be in a win now mindset and this guy would be a fantastic addition no matter how you slice it.

Playoffs
06-22-2012, 09:54 AM
Again, Harvin isn't going anywhere. His complaint seems to be about playing time, which has some merit...

Vikings Misuse

A far bigger problem has been the Vikings refusal to get the most out of their dynamic superstar. Last season Harvin played just 58.8% of the Vikings offensive snaps, and never played in a game where he saw more than 80%. In his career to date, Harvin has never played in a game in which he didnít come off the field, and the closest he came to an ever-present game was Week 7 of 2009 where he missed just a hand full of snaps against the Packers. In that game he accounted for 65 yards receiving, another 41 and a touchdown rushing the ball, and returned three kicks for an average of 27 yards per attempt.
...
Last season Harvin led the NFL with a catch rate of 79.1% when working in the slot. That was well clear of the pack and more than 5% better than Marques Colston, who is as sure handed as they come across the middle. There were only four receivers who gained more yards per route run than Harvin did last season, bettering the marks set by the likes of Calvin Johnson, Steve Smith, Larry Fitzgerald and A.J. Green. Christian Ponder finished the season with a passer rating of 70.1, and Donovan McNabb was just at 82.9, but on throws targeting Harvin, the pair combined for a QB rating of 97.2.

Harvin finished the season as our 6th ranked WR with a grade of +14.3, and he had fewer snaps than any of the players ranked ahead of him...
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/20/the-vikings-cant-afford-to-lose-percy-harvin/

drs23
06-22-2012, 01:01 PM
I know it's early and there's no way to know at this time but I think the staff thinks we have that guy on the roster already in K-Mart. Granted, he doesn't have an NFL snap under his belt yet but has received praise from the man that counts on numerous occasions already.

Other considerations being: Rookie contract, hasn't developed the dreaded 'Diva Syndrome" and zero baggage. The one knock on K-Mart being that he's not finishing plays. My gut tells me Softy Gary will have him finishing plays to the goal line during TC.

Nothing to base this on other than (or is that "then":kitten:) my gut feeling but more times than not, the 'ol gut comes through.

Agree/disagree?

The Pencil Neck
06-22-2012, 02:35 PM
I know it's early and there's no way to know at this time but I think the staff thinks we have that guy on the roster already in K-Mart. Granted, he doesn't have an NFL snap under his belt yet but has received praise from the man that counts on numerous occasions already.

Other considerations being: Rookie contract, hasn't developed the dreaded 'Diva Syndrome" and zero baggage. The one knock on K-Mart being that he's not finishing plays. My gut tells me Softy Gary will have him finishing plays to the goal line during TC.

Nothing to base this on other than (or is that "then":kitten:) my gut feeling but more times than not, the 'ol gut comes through.

Agree/disagree?

They HOPE.

Drafting is always hit and miss. And it's WAY too early to tell what we have in any of these players.

The question is how comfy Kubes feels with such an inexperienced bunch. He's not one to trust rookies if he can help it.

Vinny
06-23-2012, 10:20 AM
...late to the thread but I'd love to have PH on this team. Dude's a big time weapon and an elite player when his team can get him the ball. The Vikings have had garbage quarterbacking for a while....would love to see Harvin in a real offense.

That said, no way we trade for Harvin. Price and concussion history takes care of that.

infantrycak
06-23-2012, 11:01 AM
...late to the thread but I'd love to have PH on this team.

I'd love to have a player just like PH on the team but without the attitude and medical history. AJ, Harvin-clone and Schaub would carve the league up then top it off with Foster. It would be like the skit - which way'd they go? - which way'd who go?

steelbtexan
06-23-2012, 11:26 AM
Harvin isnt the return man jackson is but their body types and styles are very similar. Harvin is young and getting better...to this point in their careers (3yrs) Harvin is a better reciever then jackson was(production). If your looking for a #1 wideout in the mold of fitzgerald, Harvin's not your guy. But a cursory look through team rosters leads me to believe he'd be a #1 wr for 15 teams and in the mix for 3-4 more. Fantasy football mags routinely have him ranked in the top 12-20 range. I realize those are just mags so I take it with a grain of salt but he is legit. We agree the Texans should be in a win now mindset and this guy would be a fantastic addition no matter how you slice it.

Harvin is also a pro bowl level PR/KR. He would be the best PR/KR that this team has ever had. The numbers that Playoffs posted above suggest that Harvin hasn't been used to fullest extent of his abilities.

If AJ is only able to play 10 games or so, then having Harvin to take the pressure off the Posey/Martin/Jeans of the world would be ideal. If AJ stays healthy the you have a dynamic WR corps.

Honoring Earl 34
06-23-2012, 11:26 AM
I'm later than Vinny but would like to add my 2 cents . I'd be willing to give a 2nd and beyond . The dude is just to good when he gets the ball in his hands . I don't see him as Desean Jackson as much as I see him as Darren Sproles .

steelbtexan
06-23-2012, 11:30 AM
I know it's early and there's no way to know at this time but I think the staff thinks we have that guy on the roster already in K-Mart. Granted, he doesn't have an NFL snap under his belt yet but has received praise from the man that counts on numerous occasions already.

Other considerations being: Rookie contract, hasn't developed the dreaded 'Diva Syndrome" and zero baggage. The one knock on K-Mart being that he's not finishing plays. My gut tells me Softy Gary will have him finishing plays to the goal line during TC.

Nothing to base this on other than (or is that "then":kitten:) my gut feeling but more times than not, the 'ol gut comes through.

Agree/disagree?

I hope you're right about Martin/Jean/Posey.

You've got to figure 1 out of the 3 will work out. Getting Harvin on board would give them the time to develop properly. Instead of being rushed on the field before they are ready like Gary did with JJ.

steelbtexan
06-23-2012, 11:44 AM
I'm later than Vinny but would like to add my 2 cents . I'd be willing to give a 2nd and beyond . The dude is just to good when he gets the ball in his hands . I don't see him as Desean Jackson as much as I see him as Darren Sproles .

Do you honestly think Rick/Gary will be able to find a WR as good as Harvin if they are picking in the 28-32 range in next yrs draft. I dont.

Harvin has a very reasonable contract for the next 2 yrs and is out performing his current contract. Harvin would be a perfect WR2. IMHO The only question I've got about Harvin is his blocking ability.

Harvin is a WR that you can win with. NC/NFC championship game his last yr in college and rookie yr in the NFL. He really hasn't been a diva since he's been in the NFL. Or maybe he has and I just cant find examples since he's been in the NFL.

The best thing about trading for Harvin is that he's only 24 yrs old and already played in the league for 3 yrs. You should be able to get max production from Harvin for another 6-8 yrs.

drs23
06-23-2012, 03:20 PM
Do you honestly think Rick/Gary will be able to find a WR as good as Harvin if they are picking in the 28-32 range in next yrs draft. I dont.

Harvin has a very reasonable contract for the next 2 yrs and is out performing his current contract. Harvin would be a perfect WR2. IMHO The only question I've got about Harvin is his blocking ability.

Harvin is a WR that you can win with. NC/NFC championship game his last yr in college and rookie yr in the NFL. He really hasn't been a diva since he's been in the NFL. Or maybe he has and I just cant find examples since he's been in the NFL.

The best thing about trading for Harvin is that he's only 24 yrs old and already played in the league for 3 yrs. You should be able to get max production from Harvin for another 6-8 yrs.

But what about that ugly cap issue?

CloakNNNdagger
06-24-2012, 02:53 PM
An ESPN recap published Jan 2012:

Percy Harvin (B+): As dynamic in space as anyone in the NFL, Harvin never quit, even as the losses mounted and a nagging rib issue knocked him out again and again. Participated in all 16 games (14 starts) for the first time. Played only 600 snaps (57.9%) on offense but nonetheless racked up 1,832 total yards on 155 touches. Set career highs with 87 catches for 967 yards (11.1 average) in 118 targets (73.7%) and ran 52 times for 345 yards (6.6 average), touching the ball once every 2.3 snaps he was on the field. Returned 16 kickoffs for 520 yards (32.5 average), including a 103-yard touchdown on the season's opening kickoff at San Diego and a 104-yard return at Atlanta. Caught six touchdown passes, including 52- and 48-yarders against Denver, and ran for two more. Became a focal point in Musgrave's offense, getting a variety of manufactured touches and at times lining up as a traditional halfback. Generated 14 receptions of 20 yards or more. Blocked as well as any receiver in the NFL. Dropped out of four games because of the rib issue. Spent the final 5 minutes and overtime against Detroit throwing up on the sideline. Twice returned at Carolina and spun for a pivotal 11-yard gain on third-and-7. Missed two practices because of illness the week of the Denver game, only to explode for 156 yards on eight catches. Generated 616 yards after the catch, trailing only New England's Wes Welker. Broke 15 tackles. Dropped six passes. Fumbled twice and lost both. Took three penalties. Still only 23 years old, Harvin has a chance to play himself into a monster contract after next season if he stays healthy -- and if the Vikings don't lock him up first.

GP
06-26-2012, 10:56 AM
What part of "Will expect a monster contract" do people not understand?

Dutchrudder
06-26-2012, 10:59 AM
What part of "Will expect a monster contract" do people not understand?

2 years for 4.3 million, plus the compensatory pick you could get when he leaves is pretty good if you ask me.

Playoffs
06-26-2012, 11:05 AM
What part of "Will expect a monster contract" do people not understand?
And what part of the below is unclear:

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Vikings GM Rick Spielman said today his team has "no interest at all" in trading Percy Harvin. Carry on.

The Pencil Neck
06-26-2012, 11:48 AM
And what part of the below is unclear:

Oh, yeah. GMs always tell the truth.

GP
06-26-2012, 12:03 PM
2 years for 4.3 million, plus the compensatory pick you could get when he leaves is pretty good if you ask me.

Enjoy the 2 years, because after that he'll be un-signable.

Plus, he doesn't suit our offense. This offense is Foster/Tate and then a myriad of passing plays that target AJ or the soup de jour TE (whomever that is on any given Sunday).

I respect the guy's game. I don't even think he's the "cancer" some people have said he is. My problem is (a) not exactly the prototypical Kubiak WR, for what we do, and (b) what happens after two years and he wants big boy money?

Plus, Minnesota doesn't even want to trade him. He's all they have right now.

Just too many adverse variables to make the equation work.

GP
06-26-2012, 12:05 PM
Oh, yeah. GMs always tell the truth.

He's their best weapon on offense. AP is trying to come back, but it's not a done deal that AP returns to previous form in 2012.

Why would they trade their best asset going into 2012?

The Pencil Neck
06-26-2012, 12:16 PM
He's their best weapon on offense. AP is trying to come back, but it's not a done deal that AP returns to previous form in 2012.

Why would they trade their best asset going into 2012?

I wasn't saying they would. All I'm saying is that using a GM's comments as facts about who they will or will not trade is crazy-talk because it's a GM's job to lie through his teeth.

If Spielman sees a deal where he can trade Harvin and improve his team, he'll trade him in a second.

GP
06-26-2012, 12:36 PM
I wasn't saying they would. All I'm saying is that using a GM's comments as facts about who they will or will not trade is crazy-talk because it's a GM's job to lie through his teeth.

If Spielman sees a deal where he can trade Harvin and improve his team, he'll trade him in a second.

Agreed.

They'd need a WR for starters, though. LOL.

Playoffs
06-27-2012, 12:50 PM
Scoggins: Harvin has baggage, but not enough to send him packing (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/160468935.html)

Dutchrudder
06-27-2012, 01:48 PM
Enjoy the 2 years, because after that he'll be un-signable.

What?? That's the point, we get him for 2 years in the midst of a Super Bowl run. He's worth it to put us over the top.

Plus, he doesn't suit our offense. This offense is Foster/Tate and then a myriad of passing plays that target AJ or the soup de jour TE (whomever that is on any given Sunday).

Yeah, if AJ makes it the whole season without missing a game, I will be surprised. We need a contingency plan for him, because without him our vertical game will go into the toilet. Harvin may not be the best #1 WR, but he's better than what we got. For a 2nd, I'd do it in no time.

I respect the guy's game. I don't even think he's the "cancer" some people have said he is. My problem is (a) not exactly the prototypical Kubiak WR, for what we do, and (b) what happens after two years and he wants big boy money?

Plus, Minnesota doesn't even want to trade him. He's all they have right now.

Just too many adverse variables to make the equation work.

a) who cares about prototypical size? Jacoby had it and wasn't very useful in the passing game. Kubiak is smart enough to find uses for him. Harvin would get several touches a game and be effective.
b) you let him walk and get a compensatory pick for him. Or maybe you franchise tag him and entice him to stay. Either way the two years with him will be better than without him.

If we are truly making a Super Bowl run, then we need to get every advantage possible. Harvin's contract makes him a good fit for us. I'd gladly send a 2nd and Martin or Posey to the Vikings for him.

powda
06-27-2012, 06:02 PM
2 years would give us more time to find legitimate replacements for our starting wideouts. I'd worry about what price ph wants 2 years from now. Truth be told, if he were here and he foundout how a real offense operates, he might decide its in his best interest to stay.

steelbtexan
06-27-2012, 07:06 PM
2 years would give us more time to find legitimate replacements for our starting wideouts. I'd worry about what price ph wants 2 years from now. Truth be told, if he were here and he foundout how a real offense operates, he might decide its in his best interest to stay.

Harvin at the very least buys the Texans 2 yrs to develop Posey.

powda
06-27-2012, 08:00 PM
Plus, he doesn't suit our offense. This offense is Foster/Tate and then a myriad of passing plays that target AJ or the soup de jour TE (whomever that is on any given Sunday).


You know what else doesn't suit our offense? 335 lb o-linemen. Oh wait, we've got that dont we? To say ph wouldnt fit here is a slight to one of the best offensive minds in the game (kubes).

The Pencil Neck
06-27-2012, 09:53 PM
I see Kubes as a guy, like Wade, who knows his system so well that he can take talented guys that don't fit in the system and still put the guy in a good place to succeed. As long as the player does what Kubes tells him to do when he tells him to do it.

He has guys he prefers but he'll take a talented guy or a guy who's got some upside and find a way to make him fit. I mean, Darius Walker and Wali Lundy both looked like they could have been pro running backs at one point.

steelbtexan
10-11-2012, 11:37 AM
Just thought I would bump this thread.

Not that the Vikes wanted to trade him. But Harvin is playing at an MVP level. Sure would have looked good opposite Dre. Certianly worth a 1st rd pick.

SCOTTexans
10-11-2012, 11:43 AM
Just thought I would bump this thread.

Not that the Vikes wanted to trade him. But Harvin is playing at an MVP level. Sure would have looked good opposite Dre. Certianly worth a 1st rd pick.

Thats no Lie.... That would have been 2 MVP caliber players on one team