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Brisco_County
06-18-2012, 12:27 PM
Link (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/06/solomon-schaubs-status-remains-problematic-for-texans/).

The Texans, who do all their contract negotiations out of season, would like to sign left tackle Duane Brown and outside linebacker Connor Barwin to long-term, cap-friendly deals before the season.

But what about Matt Schaub?

As was the case with Kubiak and Smith, the quarterback is in the last year of his contract. Players, especially quarterbacks, aren’t particularly fond of entering a season with only one year remaining on a contract.

Kubiak addressed the importance of his deal.

“It means a lot,” he said. “I know it’s a great message to the players and everybody from Bob that he believes in what we’re doing and where we’re heading.”

It's best for both sides to get Brown and Barwin signed right now, with most of the money loaded into next year.

Schaub's contract is tricky. One of the cases I made in the 20/70/10 thread was that Schaub was at risk of sliding into group B, and if that happens, it would require a contract renegotiation. Smith wants to see a year of durability before risking that scenario. I don't think Schaub will get a deal done before the season, but I think Brown and Barwin are locks.

Marcus
06-18-2012, 12:42 PM
Jeez Solomon, why don't we find out if the dude can walk without a limp first before trying to "lock him up".

GP
06-18-2012, 01:17 PM
Last night, I was thinking this:

"WHAT IF the Texans use the tag on Schaub, to get one more year out of him in 2013 to see if he's back or not?"

Nobody has talked much, or any at all, about using the tag on Schaub.

It seems it would be rather expensive for the Texans to do so, though. But does it fit the sometimes "coddling" aspect of Bob McNair's love affair with certain "faces of the franchise?" He's had one QB he hung onto for an extra season...would he do the same for Schaub, considering that Schaub more or less has earned that one season of extra time with us???

GP
06-18-2012, 01:20 PM
I'll go ahead and say that I'm in favor of letting the market settle itself on Schaub in early 2013...let's see what the market holds for him.

He'll be a free agent, so let's not bid against ourselves here. OK, so maybe a team who is desperate will gamble on paying Schaub a really nice salary in 2013. My reaction is that they're also getting a guy who isn't Top 3 in the league, who has missed a lot of time (sometimes long stretches of time) and has major mobility problems from this point forward.

My decision would be to let him test the market, save the tag for other guys, and use TJ Yates and Case Keenum as heir apparent for the next 3 years here if we can't retain him at a team-friendly price. Go with youth, in other words. I wouldn't expect Schaub to accept that, but I would gamble anyways.

badboy
06-18-2012, 01:26 PM
I'd tried to post this article yesterday for an hour and could not find link on chron.com. ARggh!

Dutchrudder
06-18-2012, 02:36 PM
Last night, I was thinking this:

"WHAT IF the Texans use the tag on Schaub, to get one more year out of him in 2013 to see if he's back or not?"

Nobody has talked much, or any at all, about using the tag on Schaub.

It seems it would be rather expensive for the Texans to do so, though. But does it fit the sometimes "coddling" aspect of Bob McNair's love affair with certain "faces of the franchise?" He's had one QB he hung onto for an extra season...would he do the same for Schaub, considering that Schaub more or less has earned that one season of extra time with us???

Well, if we have 24 million to play with next offseason, spending 16 on tagging Schaub does not sound like a good idea to me.

Brown is probably going to cost $10 million a year, so either Barwin or Schaub can eat up the majority of that $14 million remaining, and I think it will be Schaub at about 11-12 mill a year. If Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco are making 11 million-ish this year, Matt's worth about that much, and I think his agent will get him that money.

Barwin seems like the oddman out, unless we trim a lot of fat by cutting Wade Smith, Antonio Smith, OD and/or Kevin Walter. If Barwin has 10+ sacks again next season, I think we'll see the team cut Antonio to save money to keep Barwin. We may have to draft another 3-4 DE and move Crick up to RDE. There is gonna be some movement if they don't get those guys signed.

infantrycak
06-18-2012, 02:57 PM
I think it will be Schaub at about 11-12 mill a year. If Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco are making 11 million-ish this year, Matt's worth about that much, and I think his agent will get him that money.

I think that is a reasonable target area.

Got to remember these contracts typically escalate for example the first year total cap hit for Sanchez is $5.25 mil.

ckhouston
06-18-2012, 03:33 PM
Brown is top priority with Barwin being second.

Signing Schaub before we have a full season with him back on the field, or at least the majority of the season would be foolish. We still do not know for sure that the injury wont have long term effects, and the one sure things he has shown in his career, is that he stays injured.

Really I do want to see him do well this season and lead us to the SB, but would I give him a long term extension averaging 11-12M a year? No way. Not even if he wins it all.

If he does well I give him a couple more years at a decent rate (maybe 7-8M) and see how healthy he is in two years. If Smith locks him up, he could be committing career suicide.

thunderkyss
06-18-2012, 04:27 PM
First, trying to sign Brown, Barwin, & Schaub this season explains why we "don't" have money for Mario. The cap numbers we were looking at before FA just didn't make sense, without this caveat.

I think it's the right move..... especially if Mario was unwilling to restructure that big $16M payday last offseason.



Signing Schaub before we have a full season with him back on the field, or at least the majority of the season would be foolish. We still do not know for sure that the injury wont have long term effects, and the one sure things he has shown in his career, is that he stays injured.


& then we've got to consider reality. He's in the last year of his contract, he could do like Dunta & "take it easy" so as not to re-injure himself, resting on his body of work, which should still get him a pay-raise, where another injury would pretty much make him a back-up for two or three years.

The key, is the structure. There should be enough Mario money laying around to get Schaub a decent payday for the 2012 season, then structure a deal that will pay him really well from 2013 on.... guaranteed if he's on the roster at whatever day they want next season... he won't be on the team if there is some other "freak" injury that keeps him from playing a predetermined # of games.

Heck, they could guarantee his contract if he starts X number of games in 2012.

I don't think the man is accident prone, personally, I wouldn't be overly concerned about injuries, just throwing that out there, if you are. I think he's good for our club, & I'm anxious to see how good he can be with a better WR corps..... AJ is the shiznitz.... but we need other options who can consistently get open without all the sheninigans.

TEXANRED
06-18-2012, 04:40 PM
I wouldn't extend Schaub until after this season. Out of 5 seasons only 2 has he not been injured.

Manning gets cut after missing one season in 15 years.

powda
06-18-2012, 04:52 PM
If Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco are making 11 million-ish this year, Matt's worth about that much, and I think his agent will get him that money.


Few possible problems with that assessment though I think its mostly a fair ball park.

1. Schaub is better.
2. Those contracts are 1-2 years old...it will cost more now then at the time those contracts were signed.
3. Did either of those players test the open market?

Teams will pay ridiculous money for solid quarterback play (look 2 the draft for resources teams routinely pay for the hope of a decent qb). The last thing I want 2 do is get in a bidding war with 10 teams that have more money to spend.

ATRAIN
06-18-2012, 05:15 PM
Brown is top priority with Barwin being second.

Signing Schaub before we have a full season with him back on the field, or at least the majority of the season would be foolish. We still do not know for sure that the injury wont have long term effects, and the one sure things he has shown in his career, is that he stays injured.

Really I do want to see him do well this season and lead us to the SB, but would I give him a long term extension averaging 11-12M a year? No way. Not even if he wins it all.

If he does well I give him a couple more years at a decent rate (maybe 7-8M) and see how healthy he is in two years. If Smith locks him up, he could be committing career suicide.

I agree with you here. Brown and Barwin I would love to see asap.

I wouldn't extend Schaub until after this season. Out of 5 seasons only 2 has he not been injured.

Manning gets cut after missing one season in 15 years.


Matt is good but he isnt THAT good. NO way he should get a big contract before he can prove what he can do this year. I dont know how much a tag on him would be if he does good. I think the tag on QB's is a pretty big hit right? All in all though I hate that we are already talking about the cap for next year when this season hasnt even started. This off season was one of the most stressfull as a Texans fan. I just cant wait for this season to kick off. At the very least cant wait for pre-season.

buddyboy
06-18-2012, 05:20 PM
I wouldn't extend Schaub until after this season. Out of 5 seasons only 2 has he not been injured.

Manning gets cut after missing one season in 15 years.

Foot injury vs. neck injury. The comparison is silly to say the least.

GP
06-18-2012, 05:26 PM
Well, if we have 24 million to play with next offseason, spending 16 on tagging Schaub does not sound like a good idea to me.

Brown is probably going to cost $10 million a year, so either Barwin or Schaub can eat up the majority of that $14 million remaining, and I think it will be Schaub at about 11-12 mill a year. If Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco are making 11 million-ish this year, Matt's worth about that much, and I think his agent will get him that money.

Barwin seems like the oddman out, unless we trim a lot of fat by cutting Wade Smith, Antonio Smith, OD and/or Kevin Walter. If Barwin has 10+ sacks again next season, I think we'll see the team cut Antonio to save money to keep Barwin. We may have to draft another 3-4 DE and move Crick up to RDE. There is gonna be some movement if they don't get those guys signed.

Three problems, IMO, with your use of Sanchez and Flacco:

(1) The two QBs you listed are younger, (2) not nearly as hampered by the same degree of injuries Schaub has accrued, and (3) there's no guarantee that Sanchez will be "earning" that big paycheck he was given (let's remember that the Jets foolishly re-up'd Sanchez when Sanchez still had at least 2 years left on his initial contract).

Not exactly a good argument to use those two QBs to try and rationalize why Schaub could earn that same level of pay. Will Schaub's agent demand what they think is fair pay for Schaub? Yes. Will their expectations be rooted in solid reality? Maybe, but that's for the Texans and other suitors to determine. I personally don't think he's a $10+ starting QB for the Texans.

At least the Redskins are not going to go after him in fee agency...that's one team who would definitely over-pay/out-bid for Schaub in 2013 had they not drafted RGIII.

If Matt Schaub starts Game 1 and has a solid season, Matt Schaub will deservedly be back in 2013. There's several other scenarios, however, where I would hope the Texans front office evaluates Schaub's long-term prospects here in what might be perceived to be a fairly cold-blooded manner.

GP
06-18-2012, 05:33 PM
If he does well I give him a couple more years at a decent rate (maybe 7-8M) and see how healthy he is in two years. If Smith locks him up, he could be committing career suicide.

I think 2 yrs at $8 million-per-season is good, at least for what I think of his situation here and how it affects the other contracts we need to get done in the next two years.

Some team out there is going to offer more, though. Some teams have a really bad situation at QB and they will think that guy who slung the ball in Houston will make them instantly better...which he might, but that's all relative in the grand scheme of things.

QB is the nail-biter situation for this team right now. Whether it's a healthy Schaub, a semi-healthy Schaub, an older TJ Yates, or a still-a-bit-shaky TJ Yates, etc.....whatever happens at QB in the first four games of this season is going to determine a lot of things IN season and OUT of season for us.

Dutchrudder
06-18-2012, 05:54 PM
Three problems, IMO, with your use of Sanchez and Flacco:

(1) The two QBs you listed are younger, (2) not nearly as hampered by the same degree of injuries Schaub has accrued, and (3) there's no guarantee that Sanchez will be "earning" that big paycheck he was given (let's remember that the Jets foolishly re-up'd Sanchez when Sanchez still had at least 2 years left on his initial contract).

Not exactly a good argument to use those two QBs to try and rationalize why Schaub could earn that same level of pay. Will Schaub's agent demand what they think is fair pay for Schaub? Yes. Will their expectations be rooted in solid reality? Maybe, but that's for the Texans and other suitors to determine. I personally don't think he's a $10+ starting QB for the Texans.

At least the Redskins are not going to go after him in fee agency...that's one team who would definitely over-pay/out-bid for Schaub in 2013 had they not drafted RGIII.

If Matt Schaub starts Game 1 and has a solid season, Matt Schaub will deservedly be back in 2013. There's several other scenarios, however, where I would hope the Texans front office evaluates Schaub's long-term prospects here in what might be perceived to be a fairly cold-blooded manner.

You and Powda make opposing arguments regarding of Schaub's value, and I think they are all credible points. Simply put, I think age, injury history, and lack of possible destinations will average out and limit Schaub's price to the same range as Flacco and Sanchez. I think Schaub is more capable than both of those guys when healthy, but the uncertainty around him brings his price down to their level.

Dutchrudder
06-18-2012, 06:02 PM
I think 2 yrs at $8 million-per-season is good, at least for what I think of his situation here and how it affects the other contracts we need to get done in the next two years.

Some team out there is going to offer more, though. Some teams have a really bad situation at QB and they will think that guy who slung the ball in Houston will make them instantly better...which he might, but that's all relative in the grand scheme of things.

QB is the nail-biter situation for this team right now. Whether it's a healthy Schaub, a semi-healthy Schaub, an older TJ Yates, or a still-a-bit-shaky TJ Yates, etc.....whatever happens at QB in the first four games of this season is going to determine a lot of things IN season and OUT of season for us.

That's Matt Hasslebeck money. He's at least one tier above him. I really think that he's in the Flacco, Romo, Rivers, Ryan, Cutler range of salary.

infantrycak
06-18-2012, 06:35 PM
That's Matt Hasslebeck money. He's at least one tier above him. I really think that he's in the Flacco, Romo, Rivers, Ryan, Cutler range of salary.

Agreed. Schaub is a tier above in performance, Hasselbeck has been injured just as much and he is six years older. He is a player at the end of Schaub's next contract.

powda
06-18-2012, 06:43 PM
You and Powda make opposing arguments regarding of Schaub's value, and I think they are all credible points. Simply put, I think age, injury history, and lack of possible destinations will average out and limit Schaub's price to the same range as Flacco and Sanchez. I think Schaub is more capable than both of those guys when healthy, but the uncertainty around him brings his price down to their level.

I dont think schaub will be resigned previous to the season and IF he's healthy and IF he has a normal season (for him), I think he'll command a big contract. Flaco and Sanchez 11 million type contracts are probably the floor of what we can expect. I'd guess 11 to 14 ish. I'm also assuming he will lead this team to the playoffs and that will only enhance his value. We're only 1 year removed from 2 consecutive 4500 yard seasons. If he tests the open market his contract will go north of 14 million. Do I think hes worth that? Hell no. But someone WILL pay him.

thunderkyss
06-18-2012, 07:00 PM
If he tests the open market his contract will go north of 14 million. Do I think hes worth that? Hell no. But someone WILL pay him.

He's got to win with this team. He's got to get to the play-offs, & win for him to be worth anything in FA.

Otherwise, think Jon Kitna. He'll be signed by someone to start, on the cheap.

dream_team
06-18-2012, 07:03 PM
I agree with just about everyone on here... Brown is a must re-sign. I think he's on the verge of being a top 3 LT in the league, and he's probably the best LT in the whole NFL for our system. Re-sign him ASAP!

This is where I disagree with just about everyone on here... no need to rush to re-sign Barwin. Barwin played good last season, but he didn't show me enough to convince me he's going to be our elite pass rusher for years to come. I'd like to see what we got in Mercilus, first, before we go and make a long-term, expensive, commitment to Barwin.

Just like a lot of people, I'd like to hold off and see how Schaub performs this season. I will say this, it is tough to find a QB as good as Schaub. It would be dumb to let a proven QB go, especially if that team is already a SB contender. I have no problems if the Texans extend him now, but his foot doesn't make me confident.

steelbtexan
06-18-2012, 07:07 PM
I would make Schaub prove he can come back from his Lisfranc. At this point we dont even know if he can make it thru a game. Much less a 19 game season.

ckhouston
06-18-2012, 07:14 PM
I dont think schaub will be resigned previous to the season and IF he's healthy and IF he has a normal season (for him), I think he'll command a big contract. Flaco and Sanchez 11 million type contracts are probably the floor of what we can expect. I'd guess 11 to 14 ish. I'm also assuming he will lead this team to the playoffs and that will only enhance his value. We're only 1 year removed from 2 consecutive 4500 yard seasons. If he tests the open market his contract will go north of 14 million. Do I think hes worth that? Hell no. But someone WILL pay him.

Anything over 10 even if he wins the SB .... bye Matt.

powda
06-18-2012, 07:26 PM
He's got to win with this team. He's got to get to the play-offs, & win for him to be worth anything in FA.


All we can do at this point is speculate, but I have zero doubt in the nfl's propensity to overpay solid quarterback play. My bottom line, whether my numbers are accurate or not, is dont let him hit the open market.

Something else to consider is what other quarterbacks are up for contracts after this year? Is there anyone comparable? Are a lot of qb's going to hit free agency? That could be a blessing.

infantrycak
06-18-2012, 07:45 PM
Something else to consider is what other quarterbacks are up for contracts after this year? Is there anyone comparable? Are a lot of qb's going to hit free agency? That could be a blessing.

Joe Flacco & Matt Schaub are head and shoulders the top two on the list - Link (http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?y=2013)

Unless Flacco falls off a performance cliff I would expect the Ravens to extend him leaving Schaub as the top FA QB if he doesn't injure his foot again.

ckhouston
06-18-2012, 07:54 PM
Joe Flacco & Matt Schaub are head and shoulders the top two on the list - Link (http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?y=2013)

Unless Flacco falls off a performance cliff I would expect the Ravens to extend him leaving Schaub as the top FA QB if he doesn't injure his foot again.

I see two, maybe three on the list I would take over Matt.

He needs to make a huge statement this year, I hope he does.

TimeKiller
06-18-2012, 08:29 PM
I really don't see the Texans resigning Schaub unless both sides can agree that the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Schaub being demoted to backup at some point during the contract. That's a hard truth because he's been a good player for us. If he was willing to be the backup, let the team go after a higher caliber QB our team would be incredible.

Sadly, that's probably not going to be the case. I'm in favor of moving on before it's a HUGE problem. I mean unless Schaub is an integral part of a run at a ring, I think the Texans need to sell out to get a top shelf talent. If there's one position you're going to do it for...

I'm excited to see if the Texans can make the necessary moves and continue progressing.

infantrycak
06-18-2012, 08:50 PM
I see two, maybe three on the list I would take over Matt.

Well by all means then tell us who?

badboy
06-18-2012, 08:59 PM
Well, if we have 24 million to play with next offseason, spending 16 on tagging Schaub does not sound like a good idea to me.

Brown is probably going to cost $10 million a year, so either Barwin or Schaub can eat up the majority of that $14 million remaining, and I think it will be Schaub at about 11-12 mill a year. If Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco are making 11 million-ish this year, Matt's worth about that much, and I think his agent will get him that money.

Barwin seems like the oddman out, unless we trim a lot of fat by cutting Wade Smith, Antonio Smith, OD and/or Kevin Walter. If Barwin has 10+ sacks again next season, I think we'll see the team cut Antonio to save money to keep Barwin. We may have to draft another 3-4 DE and move Crick up to RDE. There is gonna be some movement if they don't get those guys signed.

This is what I've been saying. Throw Cushing ino the mix as many are saying and....

badboy
06-18-2012, 09:05 PM
I'll go ahead and say that I'm in favor of letting the market settle itself on Schaub in early 2013...let's see what the market holds for him.

He'll be a free agent, so let's not bid against ourselves here. OK, so maybe a team who is desperate will gamble on paying Schaub a really nice salary in 2013. My reaction is that they're also getting a guy who isn't Top 3 in the league, who has missed a lot of time (sometimes long stretches of time) and has major mobility problems from this point forward.

My decision would be to let him test the market, save the tag for other guys, and use TJ Yates and Case Keenum as heir apparent for the next 3 years here if we can't retain him at a team-friendly price. Go with youth, in other words. I wouldn't expect Schaub to accept that, but I would gamble anyways.Schaub does not have to be top 3 to double his salary, QBs are in demand and his passing history is there. Maybe he will not be 100 % but there will be teams who will snatch him up regardless. If he wants to gamble on a ring, Texans offer best chance. Hopefully that is enough.

badboy
06-18-2012, 09:40 PM
I really don't see the Texans resigning Schaub unless both sides can agree that the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Schaub being demoted to backup at some point during the contract. That's a hard truth because he's been a good player for us. If he was willing to be the backup, let the team go after a higher caliber QB our team would be incredible.

Sadly, that's probably not going to be the case. I'm in favor of moving on before it's a HUGE problem. I mean unless Schaub is an integral part of a run at a ring, I think the Texans need to sell out to get a top shelf talent. If there's one position you're going to do it for...

I'm excited to see if the Texans can make the necessary moves and continue progressing.There is no way MAtt would agree to being a back up. There is no top shelf QB in draft or FA that is better than Schaub. We need to hope another season will benfit Yates regardless if Matt is here after 2012.

It doesn't matter much what we think Matt is worth in 2013 & beyond but rather what other teams will pay. There is not much of an alternative.

PapaL
06-18-2012, 10:18 PM
I see two, maybe three on the list I would take over Matt.

He needs to make a huge statement this year, I hope he does.

This should be interesting...I see ZERO I'd take over Schaub and his injuries.

thunderkyss
06-18-2012, 10:36 PM
I really don't see the Texans resigning Schaub unless both sides can agree that the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Schaub being demoted to backup at some point during the contract. That's a hard truth because he's been a good player for us. If he was willing to be the backup, let the team go after a higher caliber QB our team would be incredible.


He's played well for our team. If it ain't broke..... why screw with it?

If you're saying we should start collecting draft picks so we can move up in a future draft to get that franchise QB, then..... that just doesn't makes sense to me. I'm a bird in the hand kind of guy.

The smart thing to do would be to extend Matt's contract, guarantee the first two years, at most (I'm in favor of guaranteeing 2012 only).

Yates has all the tools, got lots of experience in college & his rookie season. The only thing that kept him from being a first round pick (in my mind) was the relatively lack of success of UNC...... not really a QB school.

Then Case Keenum. I don't know what he's going to be in the future, but there is enough there to hint at an upside. A year on the bench is probably the best thing for his career right now. Think Tony Romo, only better.

Allstar
06-18-2012, 10:40 PM
This would be awesome if we could lock these guys up.

thunderkyss
06-18-2012, 10:41 PM
I see two, maybe three on the list I would take over Matt.



:spit:

There is no way you could see two, much less three guys on that list that you could possibly want starting for your football team... at QB, other than Matt Schaub.

I can see getting Jason Campbell, Kellen Clemens, & maybe Chase Daniels into camp next season.... maybe even as the #2 guy going into the season. But no way I'd replace Schaub with any of them..... not even Flacco.... straight up.

No way.

Allstar
06-18-2012, 10:48 PM
:spit:

There is no way you could see two, much less three guys on that list that you could possibly want starting for your football team... at QB, other than Matt Schaub.

I can see getting Jason Campbell, Kellen Clemens, & maybe Chase Daniels into camp next season.... maybe even as the #2 guy going into the season. But no way I'd replace Schaub with any of them..... not even Flacco.... straight up.

No way.

I think Schaub pissed in ckhouston's soda or something. He has an irrational hate for him. Maybe he got it from the "official board" that he came from.

TexanCR
06-18-2012, 10:56 PM
Anything over 10 even if he wins the SB .... bye Matt.

And like the previous poster said, and you will replace him with....? There is no better QB on the market right now and it will not be on the next offseason. Too much hate for a QB that can throw for 4500 yds in a couple of seasons.

I'll say get Brown and, like somebody also said, give schaub a 2 year contract IF POSSIBLE ( Schaub is getting older and like Brees he is probably looking for one last big contract ) then go on the 2014 Draft and get your future franchise QB, let him sit one year behind Schaub to learn the system and how to be a pro.

Barwin, I love how he plays and if we have to cut the ninja, its something that we have to consider having Crick AND using a first round pick next year on a DL. Walter will have to go to.

Im more worried about Cushing the following year, with our cap problems how are we going to keep him? He is gonna cost a lot.

Edited to say one more thing, I dont think Rick is going to address any of these contracts this year and we may lose some guys because of this...just a gut feeling.

The Pencil Neck
06-18-2012, 11:03 PM
I see two, maybe three on the list I would take over Matt.

I know what each, individual word means. But when you put them together like that, I don't understand what you mean.

There wasn't a single QB on that list I'd want over Matt. There aren't very many QBs in the NFL I'd want over Matt.

Dutchrudder
06-18-2012, 11:16 PM
This is what I've been saying. Throw Cushing ino the mix as many are saying and....

I'm not worried about Cushing at all. The MLB position's average salary has been slightly decreasing the past couple years as teams move more towards coverage heavy schemes to combat the vast amount of passing. I think if you threw Cushing in the mix this offseason, he would get the least per year of the 4, but would be retained. If Antonio stays on the team through the year, his 8 million cap hit is more than enough to pay Cushing. At worst, we franchise Cushing in 2013 and he's stuck negotiating with Rick, which we know is every player's dream...:choke:

Some other LBs for comps:

So now, here are the top five contracts for inside linebackers:

1. Patrick Willis, San Francisco: seven years, $53.51 million, $29 million guaranteed.

2. Jon Beason, Carolina: six years, $51.3 million, $25 million guaranteed.

3. Jerod Mayo, New England: seven years,$49.85 million, $25 million guaranteed.

4. D’Qwell Jackson, Cleveland: five years, $ 42.5 million, $19.5 million guaranteed.

5. David Harris, New York Jets: four years, $36 million, $29.5 million guaranteed.

Stephen Tulloch got five-year contract worth $25.5 million, with $11.25 million guaranteed.

Ahmad Brooks to a six-year, $44.5 million contract with $17.5 million of it guaranteed

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-blog/2012/03/21/the-curious-case-of-curtis-lofton%E2%80%99s-free-agency/

I think at most we are looking at 8 mill per year for Cushing, and he may get that, unless he gets tagged. Then he will probably settle for 6-8 per. He's not a huge caphit due to his position, but he is important. Clay Matthews will also be vying for a new deal from the Packers that year, so we may get lucky if he settles for 6-7 before we sign Cushing.

Dutchrudder
06-18-2012, 11:26 PM
I dont think schaub will be resigned previous to the season and IF he's healthy and IF he has a normal season (for him), I think he'll command a big contract. Flaco and Sanchez 11 million type contracts are probably the floor of what we can expect. I'd guess 11 to 14 ish. I'm also assuming he will lead this team to the playoffs and that will only enhance his value. We're only 1 year removed from 2 consecutive 4500 yard seasons. If he tests the open market his contract will go north of 14 million. Do I think hes worth that? Hell no. But someone WILL pay him.

I really doubt that will be the case. I don't think Schaub fits every scheme out there, nor does he have a rocket arm that most team's covet. The kind of teams that I would expect to go after Schaub would be the Browns, Seahawks, Jags, Rams, Bucs or Vikings. Many of those are dependent on how their QB situation works out this year, and where they end up drafting. Even still, I don't see the bottom dwellers throwing a ton of money at Schaub unless the 90% salary cap floor becomes a factor and they need to drop 14+ million that year. At that price, yeah I think he will be gone.

Another thing to factor in is that Drew Brees is still under the franchise tag. He may be a free agent next year... :D

Brisco_County
06-18-2012, 11:36 PM
All roads lead to re-signing Cushing. He is Smith's #1 resume' bullet.

Norg
06-19-2012, 02:42 AM
why pay schaub ....???? is my question

beerlover
06-19-2012, 08:04 AM
Defense will carry this team not the offense that is were the focus of investment needs to be. A solid OL & star RB is enough to carry even a marginal QB to the Superbowl :trophy:

The Pencil Neck
06-19-2012, 08:07 AM
why pay schaub ....???? is my question

After reading this post, I have no idea what your question is. This is why grammar is important. The ellipses indicate a pause or a trailing off of your voice and that forces the second part to be "??? is my question" But do the "????" mean that you're incredulous about the original words or does it mean that you're asking the original phrase as a question or does it mean that the question is your question? I don't know.

Do you mean: Why pay Schaub? Are you kidding?

Or do you mean: Why pay Schaub? That's my question.

But when I try to parse your message, I'm not sure which way you're going.

Carr Bombed
06-19-2012, 08:34 AM
Defense will carry this team not the offense that is were the focus of investment needs to be. A solid OL & star RB is enough to carry even a marginal QB to the Superbowl :trophy:

Why, because Brad Johnson and Dilfer won a title with historic defenses? That is the exception.. not the rule. You need a very good QB to win a title. Just pull up past SB winners and look at their signal callers.

thunderkyss
06-19-2012, 09:05 AM
Defense will carry this team not the offense that is were the focus of investment needs to be. A solid OL & star RB is enough to carry even a marginal QB to the Superbowl :trophy:

We're spoiled.

If it weren't for the offense last season, we'd have been the Jacksonville Jaguars.

If it weren't for Matt Schaub.. who is better than "marginal" we'd have been the Jaguars or the 8-8 Broncos.

ckhouston
06-19-2012, 09:06 AM
Well by all means then tell us who?

Joe Flacco
Brian Hoyer
Jason Campbell (borderline)

ckhouston
06-19-2012, 09:08 AM
And like the previous poster said, and you will replace him with....?

First choice to replace him? Yates.

ckhouston
06-19-2012, 09:11 AM
After reading this post, I have no idea what your question is. This is why grammar is important. The ellipses indicate a pause or a trailing off of your voice and that forces the second part to be "??? is my question" But do the "????" mean that you're incredulous about the original words or does it mean that you're asking the original phrase as a question or does it mean that the question is your question? I don't know.

Do you mean: Why pay Schaub? Are you kidding?

Or do you mean: Why pay Schaub? That's my question.

But when I try to parse your message, I'm not sure which way you're going.

Your trying to seem like you have a grasp of the English language is laughable, and annoying.

Just sayin.

badboy
06-19-2012, 09:17 AM
I'm not worried about Cushing at all. The MLB position's average salary has been slightly decreasing the past couple years as teams move more towards coverage heavy schemes to combat the vast amount of passing. I think if you threw Cushing in the mix this offseason, he would get the least per year of the 4, but would be retained. If Antonio stays on the team through the year, his 8 million cap hit is more than enough to pay Cushing. At worst, we franchise Cushing in 2013 and he's stuck negotiating with Rick, which we know is every player's dream...:choke:

Some other LBs for comps:

So now, here are the top five contracts for inside linebackers:

1. Patrick Willis, San Francisco: seven years, $53.51 million, $29 million guaranteed.

2. Jon Beason, Carolina: six years, $51.3 million, $25 million guaranteed.

3. Jerod Mayo, New England: seven years,$49.85 million, $25 million guaranteed.

4. D’Qwell Jackson, Cleveland: five years, $ 42.5 million, $19.5 million guaranteed.

5. David Harris, New York Jets: four years, $36 million, $29.5 million guaranteed.

Stephen Tulloch got five-year contract worth $25.5 million, with $11.25 million guaranteed.

Ahmad Brooks to a six-year, $44.5 million contract with $17.5 million of it guaranteed

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-blog/2012/03/21/the-curious-case-of-curtis-lofton%E2%80%99s-free-agency/

I think at most we are looking at 8 mill per year for Cushing, and he may get that, unless he gets tagged. Then he will probably settle for 6-8 per. He's not a huge caphit due to his position, but he is important. Clay Matthews will also be vying for a new deal from the Packers that year, so we may get lucky if he settles for 6-7 before we sign Cushing.If I am the agent for either of these former teammates, I hold out for 5 year $50m and $30m guaranteed with at least $10m upfront bonus. I really would not care what other LBs got because these two are best now & I think I can get it from some team. Same with D. Brown.

Carr Bombed
06-19-2012, 09:19 AM
Your trying to seem like you have a grasp of the English language is laughable, and annoying.

Just sayin.

Everything he said made sense..

Rey
06-19-2012, 09:20 AM
Ummmm....

This talk about not bringing back Schaub at this point is ridunkulous.

I don't care if you think Schaub is an A+, A-,B+ or B-....You don't let any of those guys go without a replacement coming in that you have absolute confidence in.

Is Yates that guy? I honestly don't know. I need to see more, myself.

badboy
06-19-2012, 09:24 AM
I really doubt that will be the case. I don't think Schaub fits every scheme out there, nor does he have a rocket arm that most team's covet. The kind of teams that I would expect to go after Schaub would be the Browns, Seahawks, Jags, Rams, Bucs or Vikings. Many of those are dependent on how their QB situation works out this year, and where they end up drafting. Even still, I don't see the bottom dwellers throwing a ton of money at Schaub unless the 90% salary cap floor becomes a factor and they need to drop 14+ million that year. At that price, yeah I think he will be gone.

Another thing to factor in is that Drew Brees is still under the franchise tag. He may be a free agent next year... :DSo you want to tie up close to $20m/year in your QB? Not me.

THE $100 MILLION QUESTION

There are many details to be worked out in Brees' contract, but the biggest issue is total value. And the biggest question is whether Brees will become the first player in NFL history to average $20 million per season.

Earlier this year the Denver Broncos signed Peyton Manning (another Condon client) to a five-year deal worth $19.2 million per year, the richest in league history. Before that, Manning's 2011 deal with the Indianapolis Colts and Tom Brady's 2010 extension with the New England Patriots each averaged $18 million per year.

As of a few weeks ago, the Saints had been offering Brees around $18.75 million per year, and the Brees camp was seeking around $20.3 million to $20.5 million per year, according to sources and reports. A source confirmed that the Saints made a new offer two weeks ago, but the details have not been disclosed.

Eventually the sides are expected to meet somewhere between $19.2 million and $20 million per year, making Brees the highest-paid player in NFL history.

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/06/he_deadline_to_sign_drew_brees.html

ckhouston
06-19-2012, 09:26 AM
Everything he said made sense..

I am talking about his continual insistence on being the grammar cop.

ckhouston
06-19-2012, 09:28 AM
Is Yates that guy? I honestly don't know. I need to see more, myself.

I would also like to see a little more, but was very impressed with what he did under the type of pressure he was under as a rookie last year. Obviously he made his mistakes, but i think he really showed he has potential, and isn't that far away from being able to realize that potential if given the opportunity.

That being said, this is Matts year. Hope he takes advantage of it.

badboy
06-19-2012, 09:33 AM
I would also like to see a little more, but was very impressed with what he did under the type of pressure he was under as a rookie last year. Obviously he made his mistakes, but i think he really showed he has potential, and isn't that far away from being able to realize that potential if given the opportunity.

That being said, this is Matts year. Hope he takes advantage of it.Yeah, I am hoping Matt leads us to SB then Yates starts 2013.

infantrycak
06-19-2012, 09:35 AM
If I am the agent for either of these former teammates, I hold out for 5 year $50m and $30m guaranteed with at least $10m upfront bonus. I really would not care what other LBs got because these two are best now & I think I can get it from some team. Same with D. Brown.

What are you talking about former teammates? Of course what other players make at the position is a consideration.

There is no way 1 time pro-bowler Cushing can expect a 33% pay increase over 5 time pro-bowler, 4 time first team All-Pro Willis.

The Pencil Neck
06-19-2012, 09:36 AM
Your trying to seem like you have a grasp of the English language is laughable, and annoying.

Just sayin.

Reading a post that is incomprehensible is annoying.

Not sayin, just sayin.

Dutchrudder
06-19-2012, 09:37 AM
If I am the agent for either of these former teammates, I hold out for 5 year $50m and $30m guaranteed with at least $10m upfront bonus. I really would not care what other LBs got because these two are best now & I think I can get it from some team. Same with D. Brown.

Well, Foster certainly had a case for being at least a top 3 RB in the league going into this offseason, but look at the RB salary landscape before he signed:

1. Adrian Peterson -- 7 years, 96 million. 36 million guaranteed (13.7apy).
2. Darren McFadden -- 6 years, 60 million. 26 million guaranteed (10apy).
3. Chris Johnson -- 6 years, 55 million. 30 million guaranteed (9.17apy).
4. DeAngelo Williams -- 5 years, 43 million. 21 million guaranteed (8.6apy).
5. Steven Jackson -- 6 years, 44.8 million. 20.5 million guaranteed (7.47apy).
6. Frank Gore -- 4 years, 25.9 million. 13.5 million guaranteed (6.48apy).
7. Maurice Jones-Drew -- 5 years, 31 million. 17.5 million guaranteed (6.2apy).
8. Michael Turner -- 6 years, 34.5 million. 15 million guaranteed. (5.75apy).
9. C.J. Spiller -- 5 years, 25 million. 20.8 million guaranteed (5apy).
10. Jamaal Charles -- 6 years, 28 million. 10 million guaranteed (4.67apy).



http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/39912/59/the-2012-running-back-market?pg=1

Foster is getting slightly less money than Deangelo Williams, so these things do tend to play a role in the negotiation process. Foster may have given the Texans a discount too, so that may be the reason he was such a great deal. But do you think another team is going to offer Foster 9 million + per year? I don't.

I think Cushing will re-sign with the Texans, one way or another, but I don't think he will break our bank.

badboy
06-19-2012, 09:42 AM
What are you talking about former teammates? Of course what other players make at the position is a consideration.

There is no way 1 time pro-bowler Cushing can expect a 33% pay increase over 5 time pro-bowler, 4 time first team All-Pro Willis.Just seeing if you were paying attention. You are like my spell check & I want to keep you alert.

The Pencil Neck
06-19-2012, 09:44 AM
I am talking about his continual insistence on being the grammar cop.

I am rarely the grammar cop.

This is a forum. It's a casual atmosphere. There are going to be typos and there are going to be misspellings and there are going to be run-on sentences (like this one) and there are going to be grammatical mistakes. I don't point out 98% of the mistakes I see because I make them myself in my own posts.

But that particular post was not comprehensible. I honestly did not and do not know what Norg was trying to say. I was trying to help Norg understand that and prod him to clarify.

steelbtexan
06-19-2012, 09:47 AM
And like the previous poster said, and you will replace him with....? There is no better QB on the market right now and it will not be on the next offseason. Too much hate for a QB that can throw for 4500 yds in a couple of seasons.

I'll say get Brown and, like somebody also said, give schaub a 2 year contract IF POSSIBLE ( Schaub is getting older and like Brees he is probably looking for one last big contract ) then go on the 2014 Draft and get your future franchise QB, let him sit one year behind Schaub to learn the system and how to be a pro.

Barwin, I love how he plays and if we have to cut the ninja, its something that we have to consider having Crick AND using a first round pick next year on a DL. Walter will have to go to.

Im more worried about Cushing the following year, with our cap problems how are we going to keep him? He is gonna cost a lot.

Edited to say one more thing, I dont think Rick is going to address any of these contracts this year and we may lose some guys because of this...just a gut feeling.

Dont worry, all teams with above avg FO's keep their 10-12 best players. Barwin and Cushing are in that top 10-12 range.

ckhouston
06-19-2012, 09:50 AM
Yeah, I am hoping Matt leads us to SB then Yates starts 2013.

I agree. I have no doubt Matt will get a huge payday if he does win it all, but hope it isn't from the Texans.

Yates to me as it stands, is the future.

powda
06-19-2012, 10:36 AM
I really doubt that will be the case. I don't think Schaub fits every scheme out there, nor does he have a rocket arm that most team's covet. The kind of teams that I would expect to go after Schaub would be the Browns, Seahawks, Jags, Rams, Bucs or Vikings. Many of those are dependent on how their QB situation works out this year, and where they end up drafting. Even still, I don't see the bottom dwellers throwing a ton of money at Schaub unless the 90% salary cap floor becomes a factor and they need to drop 14+ million that year. At that price, yeah I think he will be gone.

Another thing to factor in is that Drew Brees is still under the franchise tag. He may be a free agent next year... :D

Perhaps. It feels crazy to say Schaub will make 14 million or whatever a year but again Flaco and Sanchez, who are both lesser quarterbacks, make 11-12 million. I base my opinion on moves like Tannehill,Ponder,Tebow,Wheeden, etc being 1st round picks. The lack of other quarterbacks in free agency just validates my opinion more I think. Supply and demand. Dont let him test free agency. I dont want to find out if i'm right or wrong. :choke:

b0ng
06-19-2012, 02:17 PM
So you want to tie up close to $20m/year in your QB? Not me.

THE $100 MILLION QUESTION

There are many details to be worked out in Brees' contract, but the biggest issue is total value. And the biggest question is whether Brees will become the first player in NFL history to average $20 million per season.

Earlier this year the Denver Broncos signed Peyton Manning (another Condon client) to a five-year deal worth $19.2 million per year, the richest in league history. Before that, Manning's 2011 deal with the Indianapolis Colts and Tom Brady's 2010 extension with the New England Patriots each averaged $18 million per year.

As of a few weeks ago, the Saints had been offering Brees around $18.75 million per year, and the Brees camp was seeking around $20.3 million to $20.5 million per year, according to sources and reports. A source confirmed that the Saints made a new offer two weeks ago, but the details have not been disclosed.

Eventually the sides are expected to meet somewhere between $19.2 million and $20 million per year, making Brees the highest-paid player in NFL history.

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/06/he_deadline_to_sign_drew_brees.html

If Schaub wants Drew Brees or Peyton Manning money then he has to be let go. No freaking way. If he was willing to take a Ryan Fitzpatrick deal (6y, 59m) then I'd do that extension right now, today.

ckhouston
06-19-2012, 02:54 PM
If Schaub wants Drew Brees or Peyton Manning money then he has to be let go. No freaking way. If he was willing to take a Ryan Fitzpatrick deal (6y, 59m) then I'd do that extension right now, today.

No way, too long of a deal.

Wolf6151
06-19-2012, 03:37 PM
Brown, he should be signed now. The Texans should negotiate hard and get the best deal they can but get it done early. Brown has improved every year, is very good bordering on elite status, and has no injury history. Get it done this summer Rick. A 4 or 5 yrs. deal, no more.

Barwin, if he can be signed now for a reasonable deal then get it done now, again a 4-5 yrs. deal, no more. If he won't sign for a reasonable deal then wait til the end of the season because even though he's very good, he's not elite yet and he's only had 1 yr. of really good productivity. Also with the addition of Mercilus and a 3 man rotation at OLB Barwins stats could likely go down next season.

Schaub, wait til the end of the season for him. He's got an extensive injury history, has never lead this team into the playoffs, he's not a field general that takes command and carries the team, and just doesn't have that undefinable "IT" factor. If he has a great season and leads us deep into the playoffs then re-sign him but no more than 4 yrs. If all else fails trade up in the 1st round of the 2013 draft and get a potentially elite QB.

Texn4life
06-19-2012, 04:02 PM
Bob McNair was on 610 earlier today and said that he'd like to work something out with as many guys as possible before the start of the season. He said that he would have preferred to work something out during the offseason last year with some guys but the lockout prevented them from having contact with the players or agents. Didn't go into detail which players he would have liked to re-sign though.

badboy
06-19-2012, 04:06 PM
If Schaub wants Drew Brees or Peyton Manning money then he has to be let go. No freaking way. If he was willing to take a Ryan Fitzpatrick deal (6y, 59m) then I'd do that extension right now, today.
To clarify my post, I was not saying that Matt will want Brees money but responding to another poster's hint that Brees could be a FA next off season & Texans could try to sign him.

badboy
06-19-2012, 04:09 PM
No way, too long of a deal.As many contracts are not guaranteed last 2-3 years could be dropped. I'd do that deal in a split second with caveats for his health and being able to play.

infantrycak
06-19-2012, 04:09 PM
Schaub, wait til the end of the season for him. He's got an extensive injury history, has never lead this team into the playoffs, he's not a field general that takes command and carries the team, and just doesn't have that undefinable "IT" factor.

So Schaub orchestrates 7.5 of 10 wins last year and doesn't get credit for leading the team to the playoffs last season? The players universally disagree with your field general comments.

The short deals you are suggesting particularly for Brown and Barwin are going to be a major sticking point.

badboy
06-19-2012, 04:16 PM
Brown, he should be signed now. The Texans should negotiate hard and get the best deal they can but get it done early. Brown has improved every year, is very good bordering on elite status, and has no injury history. Get it done this summer Rick. A 4 or 5 yrs. deal, no more.

Barwin, if he can be signed now for a reasonable deal then get it done now, again a 4-5 yrs. deal, no more. If he won't sign for a reasonable deal then wait til the end of the season because even though he's very good, he's not elite yet and he's only had 1 yr. of really good productivity. Also with the addition of Mercilus and a 3 man rotation at OLB Barwins stats could likely go down next season.

Schaub, wait til the end of the season for him. He's got an extensive injury history, has never lead this team into the playoffs, he's not a field general that takes command and carries the team, and just doesn't have that undefinable "IT" factor. If he has a great season and leads us deep into the playoffs then re-sign him but no more than 4 yrs. If all else fails trade up in the 1st round of the 2013 draft and get a potentially elite QB.Wolfe you were going great until you got to Schaub. If you wait too long it tends to piss off the player who may want to go elsewhere to feel "appreciated". The problem with this is there is not a good replacement for Matt. The best is Yates and that may or may not work. There is no elite QB to trade up to get in 2013 at least as it looks today. There is no better free agent QB. You can offer all the contracts you want that are team friendly and the player can say no thanks; just as Mario Williams did PRIOR to signing with Buffalo. I agree Matt should not be signed for more than 3 years of actual playing time but why should Schaub do that? This is his last chance to take care of his future. Much different than Barwin, Foster or Butler who are younger. Even Duane Brown will want to go for the gold.

badboy
06-19-2012, 04:17 PM
Bob McNair was on 610 earlier today and said that he'd like to work something out with as many guys as possible before the start of the season. He said that he would have preferred to work something out during the offseason last year with some guys but the lockout prevented them from having contact with the players or agents. Didn't go into detail which players he would have liked to re-sign though.
I see this as good news. Thanks for posting.

drs23
06-19-2012, 04:25 PM
Wolfe you were going great until you got to Schaub. If you wait too long it tends to piss off the player who may want to go elsewhere to feel "appreciated". The problem with this is there is not a good replacement for Matt. The best is Yates and that may or may not work. There is no elite QB to trade up to get in 2013 at least as it looks today. There is no better free agent QB. You can offer all the contracts you want that are team friendly and the player can say no thanks; just as Mario Williams did PRIOR to signing with Buffalo. I agree Matt should not be signed for more than 3 years of actual playing time but why should Schaub do that? This is his last chance to take care of his future. Much different than Barwin, Foster or Butler who are younger. Even Duane Brown will want to go for the gold.

Damn, badboy, how much does a future cost? Matt's already made a couple of Gamillion. I know it costs more to raise twins, but how MUCH more? :kitten:

TEXANRED
06-19-2012, 04:29 PM
I see two, maybe three on the list I would take over Matt.

He needs to make a huge statement this year, I hope he does.

I think Kubiak is going to ride with TJ and try and groom Case Keenum to take the starting spot in 2-3 years. IMO of course.

b0ng
06-19-2012, 05:19 PM
No way, too long of a deal.

Good thing you are very far away from the Texans FO. Your analysis of QBs is godawful.

ckhouston
06-19-2012, 05:49 PM
Brown, he should be signed now. The Texans should negotiate hard and get the best deal they can but get it done early. Brown has improved every year, is very good bordering on elite status, and has no injury history. Get it done this summer Rick. A 4 or 5 yrs. deal, no more.

Barwin, if he can be signed now for a reasonable deal then get it done now, again a 4-5 yrs. deal, no more. If he won't sign for a reasonable deal then wait til the end of the season because even though he's very good, he's not elite yet and he's only had 1 yr. of really good productivity. Also with the addition of Mercilus and a 3 man rotation at OLB Barwins stats could likely go down next season.

Schaub, wait til the end of the season for him. He's got an extensive injury history, has never lead this team into the playoffs, he's not a field general that takes command and carries the team, and just doesn't have that undefinable "IT" factor. If he has a great season and leads us deep into the playoffs then re-sign him but no more than 4 yrs. If all else fails trade up in the 1st round of the 2013 draft and get a potentially elite QB.

Longer deals for Brown and for Barwin (who I think solidifies himself this year as an elite pass rusher) but otherwise I think you are on point. If Barwin wants to break the bank I dont see that we can be a player if Mercilus shows to be a good option. Your assesment of Matt is dead-on, but even if he wins the SB I wouldnt offer him more than a two year deal and the absolute outside max would be 10M a year. Too much ongoing injury risk.

Rep.

ckhouston
06-19-2012, 05:54 PM
Your analysis of QBs is godawful.

I dont know, I called Yates playing by the 10th game last year (missed it by a game) on the other Texans MB. So sometimes I get lucky probably, or maybe know a little bit even if I dont go along with the mass opinion like most.

paycheck71
06-19-2012, 06:22 PM
They could add a Colts/Manning type injury opt-out clause to Schaub's contract if they do decide to resign him this offseason. I don't see them guaranteeing him the kind of money he's going to get w/o seeing how that foot holds up or w/o some kind of insurance.

ChampionTexan
06-19-2012, 06:22 PM
I dont know, I called Yates playing by the 10th game last year (missed it by a game) on the other Texans MB. So sometimes I get lucky probably, or maybe know a little bit even if I dont go along with the mass opinion like most.

Even if that's the case, how does getting lucky predicting the timing of an injury translate to "quarterback analysis"?

drs23
06-19-2012, 06:52 PM
I dont know, I called Yates playing by the 10th game last year (missed it by a game) on the other Texans MB. So sometimes I get lucky probably, or maybe know a little bit even if I dont go along with the mass opinion like most.

You tea leaf reading outlaw, you. :cool:

ckhouston
06-19-2012, 08:13 PM
Even if that's the case, how does getting lucky predicting the timing of an injury translate to "quarterback analysis"?

Maybe it was what some call luck, maybe not.

I win most pick-em type things I participate in the last few years.

Maybe I am just on a good roll.

I predict the Texans will win it all, so I hope the trend continues.

TexanCR
06-20-2012, 02:40 AM
Joe Flacco
Brian Hoyer
Jason Campbell (borderline)

Im sorry but you lost me at Flacco or TJ Yikes, Matt is a WAY better QB than those 2.

You cannot put this franchise on a 5 round QB, which honestly didnt show anything spectacular or even solid last year. It was his rookie season but he made way too many mistakes and you want to give this team to him?

Its funny how people say that Yates lead us to the playoffs, NO HE DIDNT! Matt gave us a clear advantage on the division before Yates played, and in those last games and playoff games our defense and Foster lead us to the playoffs and into the playoffs. At some point of the game we were playing against the other teams and against Yates, with AJ and Walter batting down passed that were going to be picked up by the defense.

And no, you cannot use the card of the last drive against the bengals because before that only drive he was playing very badly, the D and Foster gave us that game by keeping it close.

I'll say keep Matt and roll with him, he is a proven quality staring QB, every single player in the NFL can get injured at any moment...I guess you will get rid of Sttaford after 2 injured season? or Brady after 1 injured season, right? I guess it was a great decision and it worked like a charm for the Charges with Brees, so why not?

We should start thinking about a franchise 1st round or 2nd rounder QB but not before the 2014 draft.

Wolf6151
06-20-2012, 04:55 AM
Wolfe you were going great until you got to Schaub. If you wait too long it tends to piss off the player who may want to go elsewhere to feel "appreciated". The problem with this is there is not a good replacement for Matt. The best is Yates and that may or may not work. There is no elite QB to trade up to get in 2013 at least as it looks today. There is no better free agent QB. You can offer all the contracts you want that are team friendly and the player can say no thanks; just as Mario Williams did PRIOR to signing with Buffalo. I agree Matt should not be signed for more than 3 years of actual playing time but why should Schaub do that? This is his last chance to take care of his future. Much different than Barwin, Foster or Butler who are younger. Even Duane Brown will want to go for the gold.


* I'll risk pissing off Schaub to see if he can stay healthy for the whole year and lead us deep into the playoffs. I don't want to extend him now to make him feel better because of an extensive injury history, and a current injury that we're still not sure if he'll come back from. Like the thread that CND started about Rick Smith, Emotional Detachment. Feeling have no place if your a GM.

* As for a replacement I think if given a real chance Yates can be that replacement. He was far from perfect last year but I saw the basic building blocks to be a very good NFL QB. With some time and experience and learning he should do fine. I'm not sure who will be considered elite in the 2013 draft but there are currently about 5-6 QB's that should go in the 1st round and 10 months from now there could be even more, we'll see.

*Why should Schaub sign a friendly deal with the Texans? Because the rest of the league isn't stupid either, they see the same thing we do. A guy who's 30 yoa. who's been with his current team for 5 yrs. but only able to stay healthy for 2 of those seasons. A QB playing in a very friendly QB system with limited arm strength and even less mobility. A QB that, to me at least, doesn't seem to be a field general able to carry his team when necessary and lacks that undefinable "IT" factor. A guy with no playoff experience.

I hope that answers your questions. I'd take a hard line with Schaub if I'm the GM. I think Kubiak loves him and this could come down to a bit of a behind the scenes power struggle between Kubiak and Smith if Smith truly stays emotionally detached. This next offseason looks like a good time for Smith to flex some muscle and will probably get even bloodier than this years offseason with player cuts for salary purposes.

Wolf6151
06-20-2012, 05:04 AM
So Schaub orchestrates 7.5 of 10 wins last year and doesn't get credit for leading the team to the playoffs last season? The players universally disagree with your field general comments.

The short deals you are suggesting particularly for Brown and Barwin are going to be a major sticking point.

First off I don't consider 5 yr. deals to be short, just a matter of opinion. As for Schaub, no he doesn't get the credit for leading us to the playoffs. 7.5 wins doesn't make the playoffs. As for the players disagreeing, all we see is what they say in public and no player on this team is going to throw his QB under the bus in public.

buddyboy
06-20-2012, 11:10 AM
First off I don't consider 5 yr. deals to be short, just a matter of opinion. As for Schaub, no he doesn't get the credit for leading us to the playoffs. 7.5 wins doesn't make the playoffs. As for the players disagreeing, all we see is what they say in public and no player on this team is going to throw his QB under the bus in public.

Listing "he never led us to the playoffs" as a downside of MS is a weak argument though, even if you throw in the technicality of him "only" winning 7.5 games in the playoff season.

And I don't get how people argue that since players said something, it must be the opposite. Players say MS is a great leader, but that's just what they say? It's obvious they don't mean it? Yet, we can all look at him on the field on our TVs or in the stands and come to that conclusion? That's weak.

ChampionTexan
06-20-2012, 11:24 AM
Listing "he never led us to the playoffs" as a downside of MS is a weak argument though, even if you throw in the technicality of him "only" winning 7.5 games in the playoff season.

And I don't get how people argue that since players said something, it must be the opposite. Players say MS is a great leader, but that's just what they say? It's obvious they don't mean it? Yet, we can all look at him on the field on our TVs or in the stands and come to that conclusion? That's weak.

Just curious (not that it's particularly relevant to the discussion), but where's the 7.5 wins coming from? Matt started 10 games and the Texans record in those games was 7-3. He did not take a snap in any of the remaining 6 RS games, or the two playoff games. What am I missing? Where's the .5 coming from?

And just to throw my two cents in, the statement that Schaub did not lead us into the playoffs is true on a technicality only. Yeah, as we were going into the playoffs, he was not leading us on the field. The idea that he wasn't a huge part of finishing with a record good enough to win the division is ridiculous, and the idea that the Texans would have made the playoffs had any other QB on the roster started the majority of the RS games is at the very least, highly questionable.

infantrycak
06-20-2012, 01:50 PM
Just curious (not that it's particularly relevant to the discussion), but where's the 7.5 wins coming from?

Typo or brain fart - 7 wins.

And just to throw my two cents in, the statement that Schaub did not lead us into the playoffs is true on a technicality only. Yeah, as we were going into the playoffs, he was not leading us on the field. The idea that he wasn't a huge part of finishing with a record good enough to win the division is ridiculous, and the idea that the Texans would have made the playoffs had any other QB on the roster started the majority of the RS games is at the very least, highly questionable.

Yup. He handed off a team which ultimately only needed 2 wins in the next 6 games to win (obviously they won three more).

badboy
06-20-2012, 02:28 PM
Damn, badboy, how much does a future cost? Matt's already made a couple of Gamillion. I know it costs more to raise twins, but how MUCH more? :kitten:You future doctor you! Your kidding right? right? Why should Matt take less than what others around him are getting? Because he likes us? Give me an extra $15m over a four year deal and I can learn to like dang near most of you folks. :splits:

badboy
06-20-2012, 02:43 PM
* I'll risk pissing off Schaub to see if he can stay healthy for the whole year and lead us deep into the playoffs. I don't want to extend him now to make him feel better because of an extensive injury history, and a current injury that we're still not sure if he'll come back from. Like the thread that CND started about Rick Smith, Emotional Detachment. Feeling have no place if your a GM.

* As for a replacement I think if given a real chance Yates can be that replacement. He was far from perfect last year but I saw the basic building blocks to be a very good NFL QB. With some time and experience and learning he should do fine. I'm not sure who will be considered elite in the 2013 draft but there are currently about 5-6 QB's that should go in the 1st round and 10 months from now there could be even more, we'll see.

*Why should Schaub sign a friendly deal with the Texans? Because the rest of the league isn't stupid either, they see the same thing we do. A guy who's 30 yoa. who's been with his current team for 5 yrs. but only able to stay healthy for 2 of those seasons. A QB playing in a very friendly QB system with limited arm strength and even less mobility. A QB that, to me at least, doesn't seem to be a field general able to carry his team when necessary and lacks that undefinable "IT" factor. A guy with no playoff experience.

I hope that answers your questions. I'd take a hard line with Schaub if I'm the GM. I think Kubiak loves him and this could come down to a bit of a behind the scenes power struggle between Kubiak and Smith if Smith truly stays emotionally detached. This next offseason looks like a good time for Smith to flex some muscle and will probably get even bloodier than this years offseason with player cuts for salary purposes.Enjoy the back & forth. Your description of Schaub fits AJ except for length with Texans. How many NFL teams would be interested in giving Johnson a few mega bucks if he came on market? QB, LT and WR1 are prize possessions.

thunderkyss
06-20-2012, 03:55 PM
Wolfe you were going great until you got to Schaub. If you wait too long it tends to piss off the player who may want to go elsewhere to feel "appreciated". .

I think Matt has been around long enough to understand it is a business. If he was all gang-busters last year & delivered according to the expectations set for him, much less the expectations he's set on himself, then yeah. He would, & should, expect to be appreciated in the form of a nice, new, long contract.

However, he missed half of the season, he missed the post-season. Bad luck & all, but I think he should understand the effect that has on the business end of all this.

I think the Texans showed incredibly good faith in his ability when they signed him in 2007. A lot of money, for basically an unproven commodity. Gary & Rick know what they've got in Matt Schaub, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did sign him before the season.

But I doubt Schaub is expecting them to.

I think it would be a good move by the rookie Rick Smith, to lock him up now, to a contract that is only guaranteed through 2012, or guarantee it come the first day of training camp, each year of the contract.

If we've "finally" got a WR corps worth their paycheck, Matt is primed to go off in 2012 & he'll be more expensive when the season is over.

The Medic01
06-20-2012, 05:07 PM
I think Matt has been around long enough to understand it is a business. If he was all gang-busters last year & delivered according to the expectations set for him, much less the expectations he's set on himself, then yeah. He would, & should, expect to be appreciated in the form of a nice, new, long contract.

However, he missed half of the season, he missed the post-season. Bad luck & all, but I think he should understand the effect that has on the business end of all this.

I think the Texans showed incredibly good faith in his ability when they signed him in 2007. A lot of money, for basically an unproven commodity. Gary & Rick know what they've got in Matt Schaub, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did sign him before the season.

But I doubt Schaub is expecting them to.

I think it would be a good move by the rookie Rick Smith, to lock him up now, to a contract that is only guaranteed through 2012, or guarantee it come the first day of training camp, each year of the contract.

If we've "finally" got a WR corps worth their paycheck, Matt is primed to go off in 2012 & he'll be more expensive when the season is over.
I think signing Schaub and Barwin before the season is risky but it could be a very good move depending on what happens this year.

The scenarios could go like this.
We sign Barwin and Schaub before the season begins and they both have career years or Matt Schaub doesn't recover from injury well gets hurt again or doesn't play well while Barwin shows he was a one year wonder doesn't produce well and we just wasted a whole lot of money on two busts.

Or we may not sign them before the season they both have career season and we lose two top players at important positions and we feel stupid.

It's all risk reward and either way could turn out badly for the team and/or our cap situation.

Duane Brown has the least risk. No injuries has had several solid seasons and an elite season last year. We should focus on him this offseason because his price tag will go way way up if he has another elite season.

thunderkyss
06-20-2012, 05:33 PM
Duane Brown has the least risk. No injuries has had several solid seasons and an elite season last year. We should focus on him this offseason because his price tag will go way way up if he has another elite season.

Yeah, but If I'm paying $8/beer, I expect Rick Smith to multi-task.

drs23
06-20-2012, 06:25 PM
You future doctor you! Your kidding right? right? Why should Matt take less than what others around him are getting? Because he likes us? Give me an extra $15m over a four year deal and I can learn to like dang near most of you folks. :splits:

OK, check's in the mail...:D

badboy
06-20-2012, 06:59 PM
OK, check's in the mail...:Dsee, I like you already. Amazing what a dollar or $15million will do in this economy.

ObsiWan
06-20-2012, 08:03 PM
I think signing Schaub and Barwin before the season is risky but it could be a very good move depending on what happens this year.

The scenarios could go like this.
We sign Barwin and Schaub before the season begins and they both have career years or Matt Schaub doesn't recover from injury well gets hurt again or doesn't play well while Barwin shows he was a one year wonder doesn't produce well and we just wasted a whole lot of money on two busts.

Or we may not sign them before the season they both have career season and we lose two top players at important positions and we feel stupid.

It's all risk reward and either way could turn out badly for the team and/or our cap situation.

Duane Brown has the least risk. No injuries has had several solid seasons and an elite season last year. We should focus on him this offseason because his price tag will go way way up if he has another elite season.

This ^^^

Barwin is a one-year (out of three) wonder until he shows otherwise. Whether Schaub is back to 4000+ yard passing form remains to be determined. This makes them both borderline "twenty-percenters".

Personally, I'd rather sign Brown and see if Cushing will go for an extension before I tie up a lot of money in Schaub or Barwin.

If CK is correct (and I ain't ready to say he is), after another year in our system, Yates may be ready to take the reins if Schaub prices himself out of our budget.
If Barwin has a career year and shops himself around, we have Mercilus, Brooks, and Braman in the OLB rotation to compliment Smith (assuming he's still here), Watt, and Cody. Remember Wade likes to bring pressure from everywhere so Cushing can be a pass rusher from the ILB spot.

OR, even more outside the box, put Cushing into the pass rushing rotation at OLB and start Sharper (assuming he's healthy) and Bradie at ILB.

Those options make Barwin more "optional" than "critical", IMHO.
Brown is definitely "critical"

PapaL
06-20-2012, 08:07 PM
You tea leaf reading outlaw, you. :cool:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to drs23 again.

+1

Texan_Bill
06-20-2012, 08:38 PM
Duane Brown has the least risk. No injuries has had several solid seasons and an elite season last year. We should focus on him this offseason because his price tag will go way way up if he has another elite season.

But wait, what???? Wasn't Duane Brown (a horrible) reach??? I seem to remember the Texans blowing that as a "reach" of a draft pick......

DUDE has worked out nicely!! Who'd a thunk he'd be here and Eric Winston and Breisel gone?????

ckhouston
06-20-2012, 08:40 PM
Its funny how people say that Yates lead us to the playoffs, NO HE DIDNT!

I agree, because the DEFENSE got us to the playoffs. OD could have been playing QB.

Brisco_County
07-02-2012, 08:25 AM
Smith has still not discussed an extension with Schaub.

Houston Texans quarterback Matt Schaub is entering the final season of his contract, which will pay him $7.15 million this season.

According to Len Pasquarelli of the Sports Xchange, the Texans haven't begun substantive discussions yet on an extension.

Schaub underwent surgery for his Lisfranc injury, which he suffered in November of 2011. The Texans are satisfied that Schaub is recovering well at this time.

Link (http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/27246/Matt-Schaub--Texans-haven-t-talked-new-deal/Default.aspx).

I'm getting closer to believing that Smith wants proof that Schaub is back to 100% effectiveness before any offers are made.

ChampionTexan
07-02-2012, 08:47 AM
Smith has still not discussed an extension with Schaub.



Link (http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/27246/Matt-Schaub--Texans-haven-t-talked-new-deal/Default.aspx).

I'm getting closer to believing that Smith wants proof that Schaub is back to 100% effectiveness before any offers are made.


That's actually pretty much the opposite of what Pasquarelli was saying.

The full quote is as follows:
... Houston officials haven't commenced substantive discussions yet about an extension for quarterback Matt Schaub, who is entering the final season of his contract at a base salary of $7 million-plus, but likely will do so before the end of the summer. The Texans seem satisfied that Schaub is well recovered from last year's foot injury. ...

LINK (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/pasquarelli-friday-tip-sheet-213010076--nfl.html)
It kind of changes the context if you add in the part they left out.

Brisco_County
07-02-2012, 09:22 AM
That's actually pretty much the opposite of what Pasquarelli was saying.

The full quote is as follows:

LINK (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/pasquarelli-friday-tip-sheet-213010076--nfl.html)
It kind of changes the context if you add in the part they left out.

Good point. The end of summer could mean that the decision depends on what they see from him in preseason.

Dutchrudder
07-02-2012, 09:24 AM
Smith has still not discussed an extension with Schaub.



Link (http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/27246/Matt-Schaub--Texans-haven-t-talked-new-deal/Default.aspx).

I'm getting closer to believing that Smith wants proof that Schaub is back to 100% effectiveness before any offers are made.

Never heard of that website 'theredzone.org', but considering they have a story about Whitney Mercilus under the Browns section, I'm going to guess they aren't a top notch sports news site.
:rake:

Brisco_County
07-02-2012, 12:02 PM
Never heard of that website 'theredzone.org', but considering they have a story about Whitney Mercilus under the Browns section, I'm going to guess they aren't a top notch sports news site.
:rake:

They're an aggregator, so I use them for convenience when I'm at work. They pissed me off when they stopped linking to Alan Burge in favor of only Chron.com, but I have yet to find an alternative that aggregates local media for every team.

Rey
07-02-2012, 12:05 PM
They're an aggregator, so I use them for convenience when I'm at work. They pissed me off when they stopped linking to Alan Burge in favor of only Chron.com, but I have yet to find an alternative that aggregates local media for every team.

Try prosportsdaily.com

badboy
07-02-2012, 12:32 PM
Smith has still not discussed an extension with Schaub.



Link (http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/27246/Matt-Schaub--Texans-haven-t-talked-new-deal/Default.aspx).

I'm getting closer to believing that Smith wants proof that Schaub is back to 100% effectiveness before any offers are made.I agree & hope Matt is okay with that. Seems to reason he would be; but can that be determined in TC?

CloakNNNdagger
07-06-2012, 12:09 PM
Schaub’s future in Houston hinges on many factors
Posted by Mike Florio on July 6, 2012, 11:49 AM EDT
Matt Schaub AP

Maybe it’s a sign of the sssslow times right now in the NFL, but I’ve become fascinated lately with the quarterback situation in Houston. Starter Matt Schaub enters the final year of his six-season contract, but no talks on an extension have occurred. Schaub says that he sees himself sticking around for the long haul, as he tries to finish what he has started (but hopefully not in the Colt McCoy way).

It remains too early to know with any certainty how this one will play out, but that won’t stop me from speculating about it. (Does it ever?) After discussing the situation earlier this morning in Houston, via a weekly spot on In the Loop with Nick and Lopez (SportsRadio 610), I decided to sit down (then again, I already was sitting) and type up the various factors that will influence Schaub’s future.

1. How much money does he want?

In 2007, he received a second-to-third-tier contract upon being traded to the Texans. As he makes $7 million in the final season of a six-year deal that averaged $8 million per year, the biggest and most important question is whether he wants to be paid at a significantly higher rate going forward.

2. How much will the Texans pay?

G.M. Rick Smith seems to be implementing a meticulous plan when it comes to building and tweaking and reloading and maintaining his roster. Right now, the Texans boast a great defense, a great running game, a great offense line, and a top-heavy receiving corps.

Given those realities, Smith surely has a number in mind, driven by considerations like Schaub’s value on the open market, the other areas of need on the roster (left tackle Duane Brown will be a free agent in March, too), the “need” to have a highly-compensation quarterback, and the team’s other options at the position.

3. So, what other options do they have?

While the Texans may not enjoy the broad array of free-agent and/or trade options at quarterback that were available earlier this year, they possibly have an in-house ace in waiting. T.J. Yates performed admirably as a rookie fifth-rounder, and he gives the Texans a low-cost option at the position, especially since the CBA prevents his contract from being renegotiated until after the 2013 season.

4. Can Rick Smith continue to be dispassionate about his personnel decisions?

Smith seems to pride himself (as he should) on making decisions with the name on the back of the jersey removed. That approach could face its biggest test with Schaub.

Yes, Smith was able to part ways with guys like Mario Williams (who left via free agency), DeMeco Ryans (who was traded), and Eric Winston (who was cut). But more than ever it’s a quarterback-driven league. Would Smith be able to watch Schaub walk away?

5. Would the Texans use the franchise tag?

For the same reasons the Ravens likely wouldn’t tag Joe Flacco, the Texans likely wouldn’t sink more than $15 million in cap space into a quarterback who has yet to play at a $15 million-per-year level. Even if it’s done to retain “dibs” as negotiations continue, the one-year guaranteed salary becomes the launching pad for the long-term deal. Besides, with Duane Brown also due to be a free agent, the Texans could be more likely to use the tag on him, especially since the franchise tender for offensive linemen better correlates with Brown’s value.

6. How good do the Texans think Schaub is?

That’s perhaps the most important question, something to which we’ll never know the complete and truthful answer. When considering the league’s other quarterbacks — via a simple exercise of “which guy would you rather have?” – it’s hard to see Schaub even in the top half of the league.

Schaub easily loses the quarterback version of the card game “war” with, by our count, at least 16 starters. Here they are, in no particular order: Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco (the postseason record was the difference), Tony Romo, Cam Newton, Mike Vick, Peyton Manning, Jay Cutler, and rookies Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin, III.

While there’s no reason to currently believe Schaub won’t be back with the Texans in 2013, there’s reason to believe it’s not as easy of a question as it may seem. In the end, Schaub may have to prove that he can do what Yates did in 2011: Take the team to the playoffs and win at least one postseason game.

We’ll be taking a closer look at the situation at the top of the hour on PFT Live with someone who knows a thing or two (or a million) about the Texans, John McClain of the Houston Chronicle.

Notably absent from the "factoring" discussion is any comment Schaub's "health" / recent Lisfranc.

paycheck71
07-06-2012, 01:01 PM
Schaub easily loses the quarterback version of the card game “war” with, by our count, at least 16 starters. Here they are, in no particular order: Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco (the postseason record was the difference), Tony Romo, Cam Newton, Mike Vick, Peyton Manning, Jay Cutler, and rookies Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin, III.

Yeah, he lost me with this. If healthy, I'm taking Schaub in the upcoming season over Luck, RG3, Vick, Flacco, and maybe Ryan (that's a wash to me). If you take age and "potential" into consideration, sure, some of those young guys would beat him out, but for now, I don't think so...

thunderkyss
07-06-2012, 02:22 PM
2. How much will the Texans pay?

G.M. Rick Smith seems to be implementing a meticulous plan when it comes to building and tweaking and reloading and maintaining his roster. Right now, the Texans boast a great defense, a great running game, a great offense line, and a top-heavy receiving corps.


Can we put a number on Schaub guys?

He averaged $8M/yr since 2007. Carson Palmer is making about $12M/yr. Eli Manning is making Eli Manning is making $16M/yr.

If Schaub told you right now, that he wants a new contract before the season started & he told you he wanted $12M/yr, what would you tell him?

Ole Miss Texan
07-06-2012, 02:31 PM
Can we put a number on Schaub guys?

He averaged $8M/yr since 2007. Carson Palmer is making about $12M/yr. Eli Manning is making Eli Manning is making $16M/yr.

If Schaub told you right now, that he wants a new contract before the season started & he told you he wanted $12M/yr, what would you tell him?

That's likely a fair 'average' value for him. I'd tell him if he wants a signed contract then it's going to be incentive laden depending on # of games he plays this year, possibly next. He HAS to prove to me that his foot is healed and that he's not going to miss half a season in 2012. If he feels that good about it, great. If not.... then it's a wait and see approach for both parties.

We'll see if we could fit that under the cap this season or not. Duane Brown is the must sign of the offseason next year though, in my opinion.

ckhouston
07-06-2012, 04:11 PM
If Schaub told you right now, that he wants a new contract before the season started & he told you he wanted $12M/yr, what would you tell him?

Dont let the door hit you in the ...

Ryan
07-06-2012, 04:30 PM
I'd be fine with giving Schaub about 12 million a year but i would be uncomfortable giving him an extension for longer than 3 years, 4 years maximum.

CloakNNNdagger
07-07-2012, 03:05 AM
McClain was interviewed by Mike Florio on PFT LIVE (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21134540/vp/47816731#48097218)

When asked about what's happening with Schaub's contract, he replied:

They're (the Texans) are not going to give him an extension 'til he proves he can stay healthy, that he can, indeed bounce back from the Lisfranc surgery that he had...............this is his 6th year in the system and he has not finished 3 of those seasons...........I think it's a non issue (signing him to a contract) until the end of the season.

infantrycak
07-07-2012, 03:16 AM
McClain was interviewed by Mike Florio on PFT LIVE (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21134540/vp/47816731#48097218)

When asked about what's happening with Schaub's contract, he replied:

He may end up getting lucky and being correct about the timing but as far as I can tell McLain, other than being a walrus which apparently has a distinction related to the next comment, knows dick.

ATRAIN
07-08-2012, 10:16 AM
Correct me if im wrong but isnt Franchise Tagging a QB pretty expensive and painfull towards a cap hit?

beerlover
07-08-2012, 02:52 PM
Kubiak just signed his extension for three years so it should be for Matt. 33 million with 15 guarenteed could be in his neighborhood. Nice little bump without destroying teams cap space.

Lucky
07-08-2012, 03:15 PM
Correct me if im wrong but isnt Franchise Tagging a QB pretty expensive and painfull towards a cap hit?
Very much so. Brees franchise tag this season was over $16 million.

Kubiak just signed his extension for three years so it should be for Matt. 33 million with 15 guarenteed could be in his neighborhood. Nice little bump without destroying teams cap space.
Apples and oranges. There are no questions entering the season in regards to Kubiak's mobility and ability to stay healthy. Also, Kubiak could be fired with no repercussion to the salary cap. I would like to see Schaub on the field in 2012 before extending him with a gob of guaranteed money.

GP
07-09-2012, 08:00 PM
If Schaub told you right now, that he wants a new contract before the season started & he told you he wanted $12M/yr, what would you tell him?

My response, what I would do if he asked for that prior to playing 2012???

http://somewhatmanlynerd.com/gifs/conanlaugh.gif

Just replace the luggage on the carousel with his $12 million contract request.

badboy
07-09-2012, 10:12 PM
If I was Schaub's agent & believed him healthy as stated, I would ask him to play 2012 and then test FA. Another 4,000 yard season could bring him a 5 year deal $65- $70m deal.

SteveSlaton20
07-10-2012, 12:07 AM
If I was Schaub's agent & believed him healthy as stated, I would ask him to play 2012 and then test FA. Another 4,000 yard season could bring him a 5 year deal $65- $70m deal.

Even if he does have a good season, I don't see him getting more than $10M a year. If he's going to get a 5yr $70M deal, he's going have to get 30> TDs and 4500> yards IMO.

Doubt he'll test the FA tho. He'll probably get around $10M a year to save some cap space, maybe less.

TejasTom
07-10-2012, 08:04 AM
If I was Schaub's agent & believed him healthy as stated, I would ask him to play 2012 and then test FA. Another 4,000 yard season could bring him a 5 year deal $65- $70m deal.

Nobody is going to give a "system qb"* that kind if money....



* I don't believe he is one.

thunderkyss
07-10-2012, 02:24 PM
If I was Schaub's agent & believed him healthy as stated, I would ask him to play 2012 and then test FA. Another 4,000 yard season could bring him a 5 year deal $65- $70m deal.

This is the NFL. Yards aren't going to get Matt a lot of money. Jon Kitna put up some hella stats (yards) & he went to Dallas as a back-up.

Matt's got to put together some wins & with the defense & running game he's got now, that shouldn't be a problem. Everybody knows he's capable of putting up 300 yard games. But he needs to be that guy who got out thrown by Colt McCoy in Cleveland last year. Doing what needs to be done when it needs to be done & getting the W. Like Tenn, Jax, Clev & TB last year.

It's not about the stats, the W is the only thing that matters.

infantrycak
07-10-2012, 02:34 PM
This is the NFL. Yards aren't going to get Matt a lot of money. Jon Kitna put up some hella stats (yards) & he went to Dallas as a back-up.

Pretty sure badboy meant another Schaub type of 4000 yd season - Kitna had more INTs than TDs and a QB rating of 80 rather than one near 100.

Oh and Kitna was a fumbling machine - 28 fumbles in two years. That was 70 fumbles/INTs in two years.

badboy
07-10-2012, 02:35 PM
This is the NFL. Yards aren't going to get Matt a lot of money. Jon Kitna put up some hella stats (yards) & he went to Dallas as a back-up.

Matt's got to put together some wins & with the defense & running game he's got now, that shouldn't be a problem. Everybody knows he's capable of putting up 300 yard games. But he needs to be that guy who got out thrown by Colt McCoy in Cleveland last year. Doing what needs to be done when it needs to be done & getting the W. Like Tenn, Jax, Clev & TB last year.

It's not about the stats, the W is the only thing that matters.Disagree 100%. QB are a precious commodity and we see over reaches every year. Every coach thinks he can take someone elses junk and make a treasure and Matt Schaub is not junk. I am not a huge Matt fan but unless Yates is real deal, we better hope Schaub wants to play in Houston after this season. I smile when I see posters saying "offer him this or that". He can say no to all of it.

badboy
07-10-2012, 02:38 PM
Pretty sure badboy meant another Schaub type of 4000 yd season - Kitna had more INTs than TDs and a QB rating of 80 rather than one near 100.

Oh and Kitna was a fumbling machine - 28 fumbles in two years. That was 70 fumbles/INTs in two years.

This exactly. Thanks Icak. If Schaub had not been injured many think he could have had another very good year & maybe taken us to SB. If healthy he has an even better chance this season. He should sign a much better contract whether with Texans or someone else.

HOU-TEX
07-10-2012, 02:39 PM
We have 11-12 days to sign Posey and Brooks before they're due to report for rookie camp on the 22nd.

*A random HOU-TEX observation*

The Pencil Neck
07-10-2012, 04:31 PM
We have 11-12 days to sign Posey and Brooks before they're due to report for rookie camp on the 22nd.

*A random HOU-TEX observation*

:overreact::francis::firehair::eek::panic:

silvrhand
07-10-2012, 04:43 PM
This exactly. Thanks Icak. If Schaub had not been injured many think he could have had another very good year & maybe taken us to SB. If healthy he has an even better chance this season. He should sign a much better contract whether with Texans or someone else.

But he hasn't and right now Yates has more playoff wins than Schaub. Schaub has thrown up great numbers but just not gotten the wins/respect he needs to demand that kind of money.

He has to come through this year IMHO, if we pay him before this year I personally think we are nuts.

thunderkyss
07-10-2012, 07:43 PM
Disagree 100%. QB are a precious commodity and we see over reaches every year. Every coach thinks he can take someone elses junk and make a treasure and Matt Schaub is not junk. I am not a huge Matt fan but unless Yates is real deal, we better hope Schaub wants to play in Houston after this season. I smile when I see posters saying "offer him this or that". He can say no to all of it.

Hasselbeck was a 3x probowler, took the Seahawks to 6 playoff appearances, an NFC Championship game, & a Super Bowl.

$6.6M/yr in Tennessee.

JB
07-10-2012, 08:21 PM
Hasselbeck was a 3x probowler, took the Seahawks to 6 playoff appearances, an NFC Championship game, & a Super Bowl.

$6.6M/yr in Tennessee.


He's also 617 yrs old

Ole Miss Texan
07-10-2012, 08:24 PM
Hasselbeck was a 3x probowler, took the Seahawks to 6 playoff appearances, an NFC Championship game, & a Super Bowl.

$6.6M/yr in Tennessee.

How much are guys like Matt Cassel, Tony Romo, Mark Sanchez, etc making?

infantrycak
07-10-2012, 08:36 PM
Hasselbeck was a 3x probowler, took the Seahawks to 6 playoff appearances, an NFC Championship game, & a Super Bowl.

$6.6M/yr in Tennessee.

C'mon. Hasselbeck played in the crappiest division in football. He was a 35 year old QB who had barely sniffed a 90 QB rating once in the prior 5 years. In his best year in the 3 prior years he had a 75 QB rating. Schaub's QB rating over the last 4 seasons is 95. Their resumes are nothing alike in any relevant time period.

ChampionTexan
07-10-2012, 08:46 PM
He's also 617 yrs old

And threw for 3001 yds, 12 TD's, 17 INT's and a QB rating of 73.2 in taking Seahawks to a 7-9 record (and admittedly the NFC Western Division title)the season prior to receiving that contract. The year before that was almost identical except in he threw 17 TD passes (but still 17 int's) and led the team to a 5-9 record in the 14 games he started.

BTW, at the time he signed with the Titans, he hadn't had a QB rating of over 75.2 or a season where he'd thrown more TD's than INT's since '07.

thunderkyss
07-10-2012, 08:49 PM
How much are guys like Matt Cassel, Tony Romo, Mark Sanchez, etc making?

Cassel signed a 6 year $63M deal, a little more than $10M/yr

C'mon. Hasselbeck played in the crappiest division in football. He was a 35 year old QB who had barely sniffed a 90 QB rating once in the prior 5 years. In his best year in the 3 prior years he had a 75 QB rating. Schaub's QB rating over the last 4 seasons is 95. Their resumes are nothing alike in any relevant time period.

I agree, Schaub's got a bunch of stats & injuries. Hasselbeck has a bunch of accomplishments & injuries.

But no worries, he ought to rack up 10-12 wins & at least a play-off appearance in 2012, that'll bump up his perceived value.

infantrycak
07-10-2012, 09:12 PM
How much are guys like Matt Cassel, Tony Romo, Mark Sanchez, etc making?

Matt Cassel - 3 (about to start his 4th) years ago signed for 6 years, $63 mil.
Tony Romo - 5 years ago signed a 6 year, $67 mil deal.
Mark Sanchez - just signed a 5 year $58 mil deal.

Two of the three I think should be thrown out of any discussion with Schaub and all make over $10 mil/yr.

badboy
07-10-2012, 10:22 PM
But he hasn't and right now Yates has more playoff wins than Schaub. Schaub has thrown up great numbers but just not gotten the wins/respect he needs to demand that kind of money.

He has to come through this year IMHO, if we pay him before this year I personally think we are nuts.Surely your not comparing Yates to Schaub? DOn't forget TJ would not have been in a play off games without wins under Matt. I agree that it would be best not to sign Matt before health known. Having said that if we wait too long he could go elsewhere and then where are we? I am hoping Yates comes on strong but as # 2 then is able to start.

badboy
07-10-2012, 10:38 PM
Hasselbeck was a 3x probowler, took the Seahawks to 6 playoff appearances, an NFC Championship game, & a Super Bowl.

$6.6M/yr in Tennessee.Hasselbeck 37 YOA in Sept & how long ago was the SB? 2006. If you want to gibe him points for "being there", ok.

Matt just turned 31. WHich one would you want starting this season? Next 4 years?

silvrhand
07-10-2012, 11:36 PM
Surely your not comparing Yates to Schaub? DOn't forget TJ would not have been in a play off games without wins under Matt. I agree that it would be best not to sign Matt before health known. Having said that if we wait too long he could go elsewhere and then where are we? I am hoping Yates comes on strong but as # 2 then is able to start.

To pay him upwards of 12+ million a year he has to take the team into the playoffs and win some games IMHO. He has to stay healthy, he's missed the following games:

5 in 2007
5 in 2008
6 in 2011

So in short he's missed and entire season out of 5 seasons that we've had him on the roster. Not what I would consider stellar, but again he's putting up numbers but then again so did and here we go: Sage Rosenfels.. so we have to ask ourselves are we a system offense that we plug certain types of players in and ask them not to do just their job?

I'm going to eat some huge crow here, but the more and more I watch Gary come over the hurdles the more and more I have respect for his system on offense, he still doesn't know jack about playing defense though. I think he's probably one of the top offensive minds in the game, but not the best HC.

thunderkyss
07-10-2012, 11:39 PM
To pay him upwards of 12+ million a year he has to take the team into the playoffs and win some games IMHO. He has to stay healthy, he's missed the following games:

5 in 2007
5 in 2008
6 in 2011

So in short he's missed and entire season out of 5 seasons that we've had him on the roster. Not what I would consider stellar, but again he's putting up numbers but then again so did and here we go: Sage Rosenfels.. so we have to ask ourselves are we a system offense that we plug certain types of players in and ask them not to do just their job?


Suddenly I'm reminded of Yao Ming.

GP
07-11-2012, 08:50 AM
I'm ready for football.

badboy
07-11-2012, 01:55 PM
To pay him upwards of 12+ million a year he has to take the team into the playoffs and win some games IMHO. He has to stay healthy, he's missed the following games:

5 in 2007
5 in 2008
6 in 2011

So in short he's missed and entire season out of 5 seasons that we've had him on the roster. Not what I would consider stellar, but again he's putting up numbers but then again so did and here we go: Sage Rosenfels.. so we have to ask ourselves are we a system offense that we plug certain types of players in and ask them not to do just their job?

I'm going to eat some huge crow here, but the more and more I watch Gary come over the hurdles the more and more I have respect for his system on offense, he still doesn't know jack about playing defense though. I think he's probably one of the top offensive minds in the game, but not the best HC.Please compare injuries to everyone's hall of famer Andre Johnson.

Blake
07-11-2012, 02:23 PM
Please compare injuries to everyone's hall of famer Andre Johnson.

Point taken, but you have to consider that QB's are generally protected. While WR's are out there getting blasted.

Trail.Blazr
07-11-2012, 03:56 PM
Point taken, but you have to consider that QB's are generally protected. While WR's are out there getting blasted.

I think if you look back on the injuries suffered by Matt, you'd find that he wasn't generally protected. :-) Ironically Andre wasn't touched last season.

GP
07-11-2012, 05:41 PM
I think if you look back on the injuries suffered by Matt, you'd find that he wasn't generally protected. :-) Ironically Andre wasn't touched last season.

That's because one guy is mobile and the other isn't.

It's no mystery why Schaub is continually hurt. AJ has been grinding out 1,000 yard seasons for many years now, it's expected for him to gimp up on his own. Schaub is getting rolled on, stepped on, smacked down, etc...and it's a product of his pocket preference.

Yes, Schaub stares down a blitz. And Yes, he gives every pass play a full effort. But damn almighty he's a glutton for punishment. Thats not out of preference, IMO, that's out of sheer lack of mobility.

We need a more mobile QB. Schaub is our best chance for 2012, but I'd really prefer someone who has wheels and can pass too. This is where I get labeled "Schaub hater," btw. In 3, 2, 1....LOL.

silvrhand
07-11-2012, 11:29 PM
Please compare injuries to everyone's hall of famer Andre Johnson.

Andre Johnson over 8 years has played in 85% of our games
Matt Schaub over 5 years has played in 80% of our games.

GP
07-11-2012, 11:34 PM
Point taken, but you have to consider that QB's are generally protected. While WR's are out there getting blasted.

Schaub has been taken out by Haynesworth twice, IIRC.

Once it was the shoulder when Fat Albert was in Tennessee.

Again, this time it was Matt's foot, when Fat Albert was with the Bucs.

Minus Albert Haynesworth, Matt Schaub would have played in a about 10 more games than he has.

infantrycak
07-11-2012, 11:50 PM
Andre Johnson over 8 years has played in 85% of our games
Matt Schaub over 5 years has played in 80% of our games.

6 games of which have been due to flagged & fined illegal hits. Take those out and Schaub has played in 86.5%.

silvrhand
07-12-2012, 09:11 AM
6 games of which have been due to flagged & fined illegal hits. Take those out and Schaub has played in 86.5%.

Schaub has always been injury prone, are you trying to talk yourself out of that? He never even played a full 3-4 years in college, and hurt his shoulder even then. I admit the last two years have been better and his ankle kind of a freak accident in some way, but Matt Schaub doesn't seem to be the most durable QB's we've seen.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/nfl-most-injury-prone-players-gallery-052311#tab=photo-title=Matt+Schaub%252C+QB%252C+Texans&photo=29827485

infantrycak
07-12-2012, 10:49 AM
Schaub has always been injury prone, are you trying to talk yourself out of that?

I'm not trying to talk myself out of anything. I have consistently opposed calling players injury prone when they do not have repetitive injuries of the same type. Getting a concussion from being blind sided in San Diego didn't mean he was any more or less susceptible to having Jared Allen hit his knee twice and neither of them had anything to do with Fat Albert landing just so on his foot. I think injury prone is thrown around far too much in general.

Rey
07-12-2012, 10:53 AM
Ok he isnt injury prone. He's just prone to being injured.

silvrhand
07-12-2012, 12:23 PM
Ok he isnt injury prone. He's just prone to being injured.

LOLOLOL

:spit:

GP
07-12-2012, 01:01 PM
ok he isnt injury prone. He's just prone to being injured.

LOL.

Msr.

Brisco_County
07-12-2012, 01:18 PM
Schaub has always been injury prone, are you trying to talk yourself out of that? He never even played a full 3-4 years in college, and hurt his shoulder even then. I admit the last two years have been better and his ankle kind of a freak accident in some way, but Matt Schaub doesn't seem to be the most durable QB's we've seen.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/nfl-most-injury-prone-players-gallery-052311#tab=photo-title=Matt+Schaub%252C+QB%252C+Texans&photo=29827485

Schaub is not the most durable, but much of the time he has missed is due to defenders intentionally taking him out. People forget about Drayton Florence of the Chargers getting fined for landing a vicious late hit to Schaub's lower back, causing missed games. Or Richard Seymour getting fined a couple of years ago for going for Schaub's knees. And when Allen went for his knees, he did it twice in the same game just to make sure he got the job done. I think defensive coordinators know about Schaub's durability issues, and instruct their guys to exploit it. It's the only way Albert Haynesworth knows how to beat him.

I also think that Rick Smith's reluctance to sign Schaub has less to do with durability than it does with Schaub proving he's the same player post-recovery. I have my own concerns about that, considering that the injury is on his planting foot.

Ole Miss Texan
07-12-2012, 02:21 PM
Schaub is not the most durable, but much of the time he has missed is due to defenders intentionally taking him out. People forget about Drayton Florence of the Chargers getting fined for landing a vicious late hit to Schaub's lower back, causing missed games. Or Richard Seymour getting fined a couple of years ago for going for Schaub's knees. And when Allen went for his knees, he did it twice in the same game just to make sure he got the job done. I think defensive coordinators know about Schaub's durability issues, and instruct their guys to exploit it. It's the only way Albert Haynesworth knows how to beat him.

I also think that Rick Smith's reluctance to sign Schaub has less to do with durability than it does with Schaub proving he's the same player post-recovery. I have my own concerns about that, considering that the injury is on his planting foot.
Kind of has me thinking about the whole Saints Bountygate scandal. You know these other Defenses talk about hitting Schaub hard and trying to "take him out" or "rattle him". :foottap:

badboy
07-12-2012, 03:51 PM
Schaub has always been injury prone, are you trying to talk yourself out of that? He never even played a full 3-4 years in college, and hurt his shoulder even then. I admit the last two years have been better and his ankle kind of a freak accident in some way, but Matt Schaub doesn't seem to be the most durable QB's we've seen.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/nfl-most-injury-prone-players-gallery-052311#tab=photo-title=Matt+Schaub%252C+QB%252C+Texans&photo=29827485If you are not looking at what caused injury, should you not use same criteria when identifying a player as injury prone? AJ and Schaub have missed almost same amount of games. If either is "prone" so is the other. FWIW, imo neither are prone.

infantrycak
07-12-2012, 04:13 PM
He never even played a full 3-4 years in college, and hurt his shoulder even then.

He had one injury in college - the opposite shoulder.

thunderkyss
07-13-2012, 07:00 AM
BSPN> (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/38330/wimbley-wont-fix-titans-pass-rush-alone)Kamerion Wimbley, on July 27 he’ll report to Titans training camp with a singular football mission that will require display of the same traits: boost Tennessee's pass rush.

Yes This story belongs in Texans talk... for 2 reasons.


This two time Loser just inked a $35M contract; $13.5 Guaranteed
After he was a cap casualty in Oakland, the Titans pounced to add Wimbley, signing him to a five-year, $35 million contract with $13.5 million guaranteed.

So, maybe two time loser is a little strong. But, my point is what's Barwin going to command next offseason?


Why didn't they mention Schaub when Wimbley will be chasing him twice a year.
Can Wimbley, a healthy Derrick Morgan opposite him on the line, and the coaching of Millard make the Titans’ defense more threatening to passers they’ll face such as Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, Matthew Stafford, Ben Roethlisberger, Jay Cutler and Aaron Rodgers?

I know it's BSPN & I'm not the most ardent Schaub fan; but I'm offended.

Blake
07-13-2012, 08:08 AM
Without a solid secondary, the d-line and even linebackers while talented, will have a hard time getting to the QB.

nero THE zero
07-13-2012, 08:21 AM
Is it a Kuharsky article?

TejasTom
07-13-2012, 09:33 AM
Why didn't they mention Schaub when Wimbley will be chasing him twice a year.

Because of Schaub's break away speed.

Playoffs
07-13-2012, 09:44 AM
Is it a Kuharsky article?Yeah, I've come to the conclusion Kuharsky kinda sucks.

thunderkyss
07-13-2012, 10:34 AM
Because of Schaub's break away speed.

Well, you got the break-away part right.

:kitten:

nero THE zero
07-13-2012, 10:42 AM
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion Kuharsky kinda sucks.

Not if you're a Titans fan.

b0ng
07-13-2012, 11:05 AM
Not if you're a Titans fan.

They think he's not very good as well.

Ole Miss Texan
07-13-2012, 11:09 AM
Yes This story belongs in Texans talk... for 2 reasons.


This two time Loser just inked a $35M contract; $13.5 Guaranteed


So, maybe two time loser is a little strong. But, my point is what's Barwin going to command next offseason?




If we signed Barwin to the same contract, I think that would be flat out highway robbery. Barwin is going to command much more, and deserves it.

nero THE zero
07-13-2012, 12:08 PM
They think he's not very good as well.

Really?

I was speaking on his partiality, not on their perception of him, but that's interesting.

rush2112mn
07-13-2012, 02:01 PM
If we signed Barwin to the same contract, I think that would be flat out highway robbery. Barwin is going to command much more, and deserves it.

Get Barwin the most blinged out electric car...
Get him a "really nice loft" near Downtown....with all the latest bells and whistles......especially anything to do with the internet....
Maybe get him tickets to Paris to watch parts of the Tour de France......
Vip access for him and a guest and access to meet some of the riders.....

You got to think out of the box ........

Norg
07-13-2012, 04:17 PM
out of of our 3 Divison foes i still think the titans pose the most threat on paper there team is ......the most complete

them going to 9-7 last year i think was pretty good IMO even tho there last game was a gimmie

ObsiWan
07-13-2012, 11:57 PM
Well, you got the break-away part right.

:kitten:

Oooooh... that was cold, TK.
:spit:

GP
07-14-2012, 04:04 PM
Kuharsky is a pretty mouthy guy. I can barely stomach his chat sessions because he comes across as a guy who would get his clock cleaned if he spoke that way to people in real life.

I get it: He doesn't want to answer stoopid questions, so he gets a bit mouthy and arrogant about it. But hey, Paul, maybe you shouldn't broadcast that ignorant person's question at all??? Ever think of that? Seems simple enough. But I think he loves being a bit of a jerk to people.

His answer to the question of "How long do you think the Texans' reign in the AFCS will last, is it tied to how long Wade Phillips stays in Houston?" was "Let's wait and see if the Texans win it the second year--when they're expected to win it--before we go predicting how long of a reign they will have." I sort of recoiled at that.

He was all sorts of a jerk last year when he said he would never pick them to win the AFCS until they actually DID win the AFCS...and now he's still being a bit petulant about the very same topic. Sour grapes much, IMO.

He should stick to doing blog entries and leave chats to the pros, IMO.

GP
07-14-2012, 04:06 PM
And btw, Thunderkyss...this 100% shouldn't be in the Texans Talk forum. Nice rationalizing and justifying, but it doesn't fit.

There was a chat session of Kuharsky's that had many Texans-related items we could have discussed (like I mentioned in my post just before this one) rather than this topic you've chosen. But oh well. It got people talkin' so mission accomplished.

Lucky
07-14-2012, 05:55 PM
Yes This story belongs in Texans talk...
Um, no it belongs the NFL forum. Just like every other thread discussing a NFL team not named the Texans. Same as it ever was.

thunderkyss
07-14-2012, 08:03 PM
Um, no it belongs the NFL forum. Just like every other thread discussing a NFL team not named the Texans. Same as it ever was.

well, I intended to further the discussion about locking up Barwin this year. I was pointing to Wimbley's contract as an example of what Barwin will be offered.

Then I was dissappointed that Schaub wasn't mentioned.

Most of this conversation has been about Texans. With a little about a beat writer.

Doppelganger
07-16-2012, 09:57 AM
well, I intended to further the discussion about locking up Barwin this year. I was pointing to Wimbley's contract as an example of what Barwin will be offered.

Then I was dissappointed that Schaub wasn't mentioned.

Most of this conversation has been about Texans. With a little about a beat writer.

I don't think Barwin gets resigned. Texans will give big money to LT Brown to keep him here and will probably give Schaub a nice check to stick around. There simply won't be enough money left over to keep Barwin unless he is willing to take a paycut. If barwin has another good season he may jump to the top of the DE/OLB FA class and someone else will likely overpay him.

thunderkyss
07-16-2012, 10:36 AM
I don't think Barwin gets resigned. Texans will give big money to LT Brown to keep him here and will probably give Schaub a nice check to stick around. There simply won't be enough money left over to keep Barwin unless he is willing to take a paycut. If barwin has another good season he may jump to the top of the DE/OLB FA class and someone else will likely overpay him.

Can we move this back to the Texans Talk forum?

GP
07-16-2012, 10:45 AM
Can we move this back to the Texans Talk forum?

Why are you doing this?

There is a thread about "Re-Signing Brown, Barwin, etc." and all you had to do was post the snippet about Wimbley into that thread and then comment on it with all your discussion about Barwin's connection to it.

It's like packing. Would you stack little items first, then pile on huge items on top of the tiny items that sit at the bottom of the pickup bed? Or would you put the larger, broader items on the bottom and then gradually add smaller items as layers on top? There is a logical order to packing. There is a logical order to creating threads and placing them in the right forum. It's. Simple.

You created a thread, in the Texans Talk forum, that was an article about another team's player...then you tried to stack on conversation about a Texans player to validate your idea of creating the new thread in the wrong forum.

I just don't get it. I'm all about divergent thinking, but dude....

Dutchrudder
07-16-2012, 10:51 AM
Can we move this back to the Texans Talk forum?

If you want to talk about Texans stuff and include this article, why not post this in one of the 37 "re-sign Barwin/Brown/Schaub" threads? If you want to discuss the impact Wimbley's contract will have on Barwin, do some homework and find other LB contracts that were recently signed and list them all of comparison. It should be much easier to see where Barwin falls in line, rather than taking one deal and trying to peg his value based upon that.

thunderkyss
07-16-2012, 12:21 PM
Why are you doing this?

There is a thread about "Re-Signing Brown, Barwin, etc." and all you had to do was post the snippet about Wimbley into that thread and then comment on it with all your discussion about Barwin's connection to it.

Can we merge this one into that thread?

HOU-TEX
07-17-2012, 11:54 AM
Posey's back in H-town per his tweet. I reckon he should be signing soon?

The players before and after Brooks was picked have signed, so I'd expect him to sign soon too

Brisco_County
08-27-2012, 11:15 PM
This topic is suddenly relevant again

Matt Schaub*- QB -*HOU*- Aug. 27 - 8:18 pm etCBS' Jason La Canfora reports it's "very unlikely" the Texans re-sign free-agent-to-be Matt Schaub before the offseason.The 31-year-old Schaub is making $7.15 million in his walk year. Schaub has had an outstanding preseason, but it's still in the Texans' best interest to make him prove his health and effectiveness during the regular season after a Lisfranc fracture limited him to 10 games in 2011. Schaub will be a strong candidate for the franchise tag.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=16&line=239224&spln=1

At this point, the uncertainty of Schaub's rehab is nullified. On Saturday against the Saints, he was more confident and sharp since I can remember. From what we've seen of his preseason, we have enough evidence to accurately evaluate the benefits of re-signing him now, and those benefits make an extension a risk worth taking.

If Schaub has even a decent season, his market value will be high. If he continues to play like he has in preseason, it will jump even higher, and retaining him would be cap consuming at a time that Smith will be preparing an extension for Cushing. And what is the contingency plan if Schaub leaves? Yates did not demonstrate enough progress this year, and there are no practical options left. It's foolish to risk burning cap space competing with market offers if there will be no forseeable alternatives to Schaub anyway.

Texn4life
08-27-2012, 11:23 PM
This topic is suddenly relevant again



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=16&line=239224&spln=1

At this point, the uncertainty of Schaub's rehab is nullified. On Saturday against the Saints, he was more confident and sharp since I can remember. From what we've seen of his preseason, we have enough evidence to accurately evaluate the benefits of re-signing him now, and those benefits make an extension a risk worth taking.

If Schaub has even a decent season, his market value will be high. If he continues to play like he has in preseason, it will jump even higher, and retaining him would be cap consuming at a time that Smith will be preparing an extension for Cushing. And what is the contingency plan if Schaub leaves? Yates did not demonstrate enough progress this year, and there are no practical options left. It's foolish to risk burning cap space competing with market offers if there will be no forseeable alternatives to Schaub anyway.

This is a huge concern of mine. I have a feeling Schaub is going to have a big year. I didn't envision that at the end of last year with the injury that he had. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't in this situation.

GuerillaBlack
08-27-2012, 11:29 PM
This topic is suddenly relevant again



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=16&line=239224&spln=1

At this point, the uncertainty of Schaub's rehab is nullified. On Saturday against the Saints, he was more confident and sharp since I can remember. From what we've seen of his preseason, we have enough evidence to accurately evaluate the benefits of re-signing him now, and those benefits make an extension a risk worth taking.

If Schaub has even a decent season, his market value will be high. If he continues to play like he has in preseason, it will jump even higher, and retaining him would be cap consuming at a time that Smith will be preparing an extension for Cushing. And what is the contingency plan if Schaub leaves? Yates did not demonstrate enough progress this year, and there are no practical options left. It's foolish to risk burning cap space competing with market offers if there will be no forseeable alternatives to Schaub anyway.

There is always the franchise tag. Let Schaub prove he can be healthy again for another season and then talk.

SAMURAITEXAN
08-27-2012, 11:48 PM
This topic is suddenly relevant again



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=16&line=239224&spln=1

At this point, the uncertainty of Schaub's rehab is nullified. On Saturday against the Saints, he was more confident and sharp since I can remember. From what we've seen of his preseason, we have enough evidence to accurately evaluate the benefits of re-signing him now, and those benefits make an extension a risk worth taking.

If Schaub has even a decent season, his market value will be high. If he continues to play like he has in preseason, it will jump even higher, and retaining him would be cap consuming at a time that Smith will be preparing an extension for Cushing. And what is the contingency plan if Schaub leaves? Yates did not demonstrate enough progress this year, and there are no practical options left. It's foolish to risk burning cap space competing with market offers if there will be no forseeable alternatives to Schaub anyway.

I think Schaub will stay to play for team that he is familiar with and playoff contention team like the Texans. His got a lots of weapon to play with and not to mention a chemistry between Schaub and the other O players. Now if he wants obscene kind of money, this will be a different story. Didn't he negotiated his contract a few years ago to give the Texans for an extra cap room? If I recall correctly on this, he is likely to stay with the Texans.

Yates looked to me more comfortable than last year to me. Of course, this doesn't mean he can be an immediate starter. But, he looks better than last year to me.

Go Texans!!!

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-28-2012, 08:38 AM
It's obvious Schaub wants to be a Texan, I agree maybe wait to see how he plays and finish's the whole season before giving him a contract. I would really like to see him or Barwin get a deal so we can focus on Which ever one didn't get the contract plus James Casey and GQ have to resign. If we do have 24mil to work with before cuts and restructuring of contracts we should have the cash for them all right?

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-28-2012, 08:42 AM
@Dutchrudder the 24mil we have in free money is that before or after the D.Brown contract?

paycheck71
08-28-2012, 10:01 AM
QB franchise tag this year is around $19MM. With the new Brees and Manning deals it will likely be higher next year, or just around that number. There is zero chance the Texans franchise Schaub. If there are no setbacks healthwise during the season, he'll sign an extension at some point after the season ends and before free agency.

Dutchrudder
08-28-2012, 10:18 AM
Is it just me, or are new replies not showing up in this thread?

Edit: NVM, new page finally showed up. Not sure what happened here....

Anyways, John Clayton projected the 2013 cap space for all 32 teams in an article. The Houston part was before the Duane Brown signing, although we don't know how the money is structured yet.

The interesting part of the 2013 cap is that the AFC has room up top, particularly the AFC South. To keep their offense together during the Peyton Manning years, the Colts were always tight against the cap. Before a Luck deal, they led the NFL in 2013 with $43 million of room. Houston Texans general manager Rick Smith had a tough 2012, deciding to keep Arian Foster and Chris Myers, but it cost the Texans Eric Winston and Mario Williams. The Texans are fifth on the list with $24.8 million of room.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8016480/nfl-salary-cap-carryover-rewards-smart-management

It's from June 7th, so it may have changed a bit since then, but it should give us a ballpark figure to work with. Say 14 million is still available going into 2013, is that enough to re-sign Schaub and sign the new rookies? Do we need to make more cuts to save salary? Can we re-sign Barwin, Quin and/or McCain?

paycheck71
08-28-2012, 10:20 AM
Is it just me, or are new replies not showing up in this thread?

Yeah, this thread is malfunctioning. Page 10 just now showed up for me.

ChampionTexan
08-28-2012, 10:38 AM
Is it just me, or are new replies not showing up in this thread?

I had the same problem until just now.

QB franchise tag this year is around $19MM. With the new Brees and Manning deals it will likely be higher next year, or just around that number. There is zero chance the Texans franchise Schaub. If there are no setbacks healthwise during the season, he'll sign an extension at some point after the season ends and before free agency.

Actually, there are two type of franchise tags - Exclusive (which was what was placed on Drew Brees), and non-exclusive. As the label implies, the exclusive tag prohibits other teams from negotiating with anyone that has it placed on them, and it is more expensive than the non-exclusive tag. The non-exclusive tag (which is what Schaub would likely receive) lets other teams negotiate and make an offer, gives the franchising team the opportunity to match any accepted offer, and to receive two first round picks if they don't match. For 2012, the non-exclusive QB franchise tag amount was $14.4 Million, which was actually down from 2011. I'm guessing it doesn't go up much - if at all - in 2012.

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-28-2012, 10:41 AM
Yeah, this thread is malfunctioning. Page 10 just now showed up for me.

Exactly was wondering what was going on earlier. Anyways back to the discussion Dutch confirmed to me we should have about 14mil before cuts and restructuring after just signing Dbo so looks like we should have the money to resign are key pieces in my opinion

paycheck71
08-28-2012, 10:46 AM
Actually, there are two type of franchise tags - Exclusive (which was what was placed on Drew Brees), and non-exclusive. As the label implies, the exclusive tag prohibits other teams from negotiating with anyone that has it placed on them, and it is more expensive than the non-exclusive tag. The non-exclusive tag (which is what Schaub would likely receive) lets other teams negotiate and make an offer, gives the franchising team the opportunity to match any accepted offer, and to receive two first round picks if they don't match. For 2012, the non-exclusive QB franchise tag amount was $14.4 Million, which was actually down from 2011. I'm guessing it doesn't go up much - if at all - in 2012.

Thanks for the clarification. Didn't know that. $14.4 is obviously more acceptable.

Allstar
08-28-2012, 12:42 PM
"If it gets done in the next week, that would be great," Barwin said (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19941139/canny-texans-quietly-build-their-super-roster-around-character), "and if it doesn't, then it doesn't." There is a very good chance it does.

Doppelganger
08-28-2012, 12:54 PM
Is it just me, or are new replies not showing up in this thread?

Edit: NVM, new page finally showed up. Not sure what happened here....

Anyways, John Clayton projected the 2013 cap space for all 32 teams in an article. The Houston part was before the Duane Brown signing, although we don't know how the money is structured yet.



http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8016480/nfl-salary-cap-carryover-rewards-smart-management

It's from June 7th, so it may have changed a bit since then, but it should give us a ballpark figure to work with. Say 14 million is still available going into 2013, is that enough to re-sign Schaub and sign the new rookies? Do we need to make more cuts to save salary? Can we re-sign Barwin, Quin and/or McCain?

More cuts are probably a given. I predict Antonio Smith and Kevin Walter will be cut. I think we will see Crick take over at DE for Smith and Jean will slide in for Walter. If necessary, Wade Smith may also be a cap casualty.

I would resign Barwin and Schaub(if he has a good injury free year) and cut Antonio Smith, Wade Smith, and Kevin Walter. I would resign Quinn and not resign McCain(due to financial reasons).

2014 free agents who may need extensions in 2013 include Ben Tate, Brian Cushing, Earl Mitchell, and Daryl Sharpton.

Dutchrudder
08-28-2012, 01:17 PM
More cuts are probably a given. I predict Antonio Smith and Kevin Walter will be cut. I think we will see Crick take over at DE for Smith and Jean will slide in for Walter. If necessary, Wade Smith may also be a cap casualty.

I would resign Barwin and Schaub(if he has a good injury free year) and cut Antonio Smith, Wade Smith, and Kevin Walter. I would resign Quinn and not resign McCain(due to financial reasons).

2014 free agents who may need extensions in 2013 include Ben Tate, Brian Cushing, Earl Mitchell, and Daryl Sharpton.

Yeah, I'm not quite ready to say which guys are on their way out next year, but Walter, A Smith, W Smith and OD are the best candidates to be cut. It all depends on how they perform this year.

I expect that Earl Mitchell and Daryl Sharpton will be minimum deal guys. I don't think either will elicit an offer above that around the league, so we can probably keep them if we want to. Sharpton may be out for good though. Ben Tate will probably get at least 5 million a year for 4 years, from a RB needy team. I'm hoping we trade him next year for a 2nd and find another plug-and-play RB in the draft. Cushing won't be going anywhere, he will be franchise tagged at the very least. He should get about 7 million a year, so I hope we have that much available for him.

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-28-2012, 01:17 PM
To cut Antonio is ridiculous your under selling him badly.Walter yes can see him getting cut and McCain, we can replace him with Harris if he continues his good play and cut wade Smith that's a no no brooks isn't even ready to be starter he is too raw and can't even keep his weight in check smh

silvrhand
08-28-2012, 01:30 PM
More cuts are probably a given. I predict Antonio Smith and Kevin Walter will be cut. I think we will see Crick take over at DE for Smith and Jean will slide in for Walter. If necessary, Wade Smith may also be a cap casualty.

I would resign Barwin and Schaub(if he has a good injury free year) and cut Antonio Smith, Wade Smith, and Kevin Walter. I would resign Quinn and not resign McCain(due to financial reasons).

2014 free agents who may need extensions in 2013 include Ben Tate, Brian Cushing, Earl Mitchell, and Daryl Sharpton.

No way do we cut Smith this year, too many injuries and we need the veteran up front, still very young in our front 7 and with the lost of Ryans.. We need a bit of experience.

Allstar
08-28-2012, 01:50 PM
No way do we cut Smith this year, too many injuries and we need the veteran up front, still very young in our front 7 and with the lost of Ryans.. We need a bit of experience.

He's talking about next year.

drs23
08-28-2012, 01:54 PM
No way do we cut Smith this year, too many injuries and we need the veteran up front, still very young in our front 7 and with the lost of Ryans.. We need a bit of experience.

'Meco's not lost silvrhand, he's in Philly. :D

HOU-TEX
08-28-2012, 02:03 PM
'Meco's not lost silvrhand, he's in Philly. :D

Their entire D has looked lost this preseason. Other than the Giants, the NFC East looks lost

Joe Texan
08-28-2012, 02:21 PM
Isn't solomen a hump and cannot be relied on for accurate news

Just saying

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-28-2012, 02:28 PM
Isn't solomen a hump and cannot be relied on for accurate news

Just saying

Agreed Hate Soloman jones

Fico
08-28-2012, 02:32 PM
Isn't solomen a hump and cannot be relied on for accurate news

Just saying

I am Ron Burgundy?

badboy
08-28-2012, 03:23 PM
More cuts are probably a given. I predict Antonio Smith and Kevin Walter will be cut. I think we will see Crick take over at DE for Smith and Jean will slide in for Walter. If necessary, Wade Smith may also be a cap casualty.

I would resign Barwin and Schaub(if he has a good injury free year) and cut Antonio Smith, Wade Smith, and Kevin Walter. I would resign Quinn and not resign McCain(due to financial reasons).

2014 free agents who may need extensions in 2013 include Ben Tate, Brian Cushing, Earl Mitchell, and Daryl Sharpton.IIRC, my research last week shows Antonio Smith has $4m in bonus coming in 12 & 13 seasons. If cut that would be on this season's cap. That would ultimately save $7.5m if Brooks can replace him. That should get you Shaub and Quin.

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-28-2012, 03:26 PM
Why do we have to cut Antonio what's wrong with restructuring his contract he is the type of player that would

Dutchrudder
08-28-2012, 05:18 PM
IIRC, my research last week shows Antonio Smith has $4m in bonus coming in 12 & 13 seasons. If cut that would be on this season's cap. That would ultimately save $7.5m if Brooks can replace him. That should get you Shaub and Quin.

Dopp is talking about cutting these guys next season, not 2012. Antonio's deal has the signing bonus remaining, which is a sunk cost. Salaries are: 2012: $5.5 million, 2013: $6 million. Cutting him next year saves 6 million, which may be enough to re-sign Barwin. If it comes down to Smith vs Barwin, I'm taking Barwin every time.

Walter has no guaranteed money left on his deal (that we know of). Salaries remaining are: 2012: $2 million, 2013-2014: $3.5 million. He will probably be asked to take a paycut next year or hit the road. Cutting him saves 3.5 million in 2013.

Wade Smith has some 750k signing bonus money that will hit the cap each year, but his salaries are no longer guaranteed. Salaries are: 2012: $2 million, 2013: $3 million. Cutting him next year would save 3 million, so he's a target.

Cutting those three guys next offseason will give us 12.5 million to work with, which could be better spent retaining Schaub, Barwin and Quin. That would give us ~26 million to work with alone, and that's a nice chunk of change going into the offseason.

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/texans

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/yearly/

badboy
08-29-2012, 12:57 PM
Dopp is talking about cutting these guys next season, not 2012. Antonio's deal has the signing bonus remaining, which is a sunk cost. Salaries are: 2012: $5.5 million, 2013: $6 million. Cutting him next year saves 6 million, which may be enough to re-sign Barwin. If it comes down to Smith vs Barwin, I'm taking Barwin every time.

Walter has no guaranteed money left on his deal (that we know of). Salaries remaining are: 2012: $2 million, 2013-2014: $3.5 million. He will probably be asked to take a paycut next year or hit the road. Cutting him saves 3.5 million in 2013.

Wade Smith has some 750k signing bonus money that will hit the cap each year, but his salaries are no longer guaranteed. Salaries are: 2012: $2 million, 2013: $3 million. Cutting him next year would save 3 million, so he's a target.

Cutting those three guys next offseason will give us 12.5 million to work with, which could be better spent retaining Schaub, Barwin and Quin. That would give us ~26 million to work with alone, and that's a nice chunk of change going into the offseason.

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/texans

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/yearly/Agree but not sure if we have a replacement for A. Smith. Might need to draft one high if we cut him.

The Pencil Neck
08-29-2012, 01:11 PM
Agree but not sure if we have a replacement for A. Smith. Might need to draft one high if we cut him.

Crick.

Personally, I expect Antonio to restructure and extend but I think Crick is the guy being groomed to replace Antonio if that doesn't work out. Jamison might step up, though.

Brisco_County
08-29-2012, 05:45 PM
Crick.

Personally, I expect Antonio to restructure and extend but I think Crick is the guy being groomed to replace Antonio if that doesn't work out. Jamison might step up, though.

Jamison is the value-for-the-money option, and he's good enough for Smith to pursue a restructure for Antonio. Too soon to count on Crick. Maybe after a few games into the season.

The Pencil Neck
08-29-2012, 09:39 PM
Jamison is the value-for-the-money option, and he's good enough for Smith to pursue a restructure for Antonio. Too soon to count on Crick. Maybe after a few games into the season.

Maybe so but it's a helluva lot better than drafting the guy's replacement the year you cut him which is what badboy was suggesting.