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View Full Version : Gary Kubiak criticizes Texans' practice effort


Fili
06-06-2012, 01:33 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8299cfbb/article/gary-kubiak-criticizes-texans-practice-effort

ďI took their helmets off today and gave them a little bone, so to speak, and they didnít respond to it,Ē Kubiak said in a post-practice interview session. ďLast yearís team responded to it very well. This yearís team's first chance wasnít very good. I told them Iíll give them one more chance tomorrow and there wonít be any more (if itís not better).

GP
06-06-2012, 03:18 PM
He let them go without helmets today, and wasn't satisfied with the way they responded to the reward.

Lesson to be learned: Don't give rewards out too early. Duh.

Kids will take a mile if you give them an inch, Gary.

badboy
06-06-2012, 03:20 PM
Just a psychological ploy.

Wolf6151
06-06-2012, 03:58 PM
Just a psychological ploy.

Agreed, but a little foot in the ass never hurts once in a while.

GP
06-06-2012, 04:54 PM
Just a psychological ploy.

I would call it a poor decision on two accounts: 1. Rewarding them before they had accomplished something, then 2. getting onto them when they took the reward and ran with it..err, uh...walked with it.

He gave them an afternoon off from weights, IIRC, when the two field goal kickers made their kicks. Everyone cheered, rightfully so, and the reward came AFTER an accomplishment on the field. This time, he rewarded them up-front and then they dogged it a little...how else did he expect human nature to react to an up-front reward? LOL.

For the record, I don't think Kubiak is crazy or dumb. I think this particular idea of his ended up biting him in the ass and now he's biting them in the ass for it. All in all, he's at least saying "You aren't pulling anything over on me."

We have to remember he's got an all-rookie pool of WRs out there with AJ and Walter out, a second-year QB, a lot of youngsters on the OL too. He's making sure they all understand their place in the world.

ObsiWan
06-06-2012, 06:08 PM
Just a psychological ploy.

Seems like a "how mature are you guys?" measurement to me. If they pass muster, you're proud. If they fail, you got ammo to justify putting the boot up their backsides.

Parenting 101.

Playoffs
06-06-2012, 06:14 PM
This could make or break the season.

ObsiWan
06-06-2012, 06:16 PM
This could make or break the season.

:lol:

House of Pain
06-06-2012, 06:48 PM
I would call it a poor decision on two accounts

Really? Just two? :kubepalm:

drs23
06-06-2012, 06:56 PM
I would call it a poor decision on two accounts: 1. Rewarding them before they had accomplished something, then 2. getting onto them when they took the reward and ran with it..err, uh...walked with it.

He gave them an afternoon off from weights, IIRC, when the two field goal kickers made their kicks. Everyone cheered, rightfully so, and the reward came AFTER an accomplishment on the field. This time, he rewarded them up-front and then they dogged it a little...how else did he expect human nature to react to an up-front reward? LOL.

For the record, I don't think Kubiak is crazy or dumb. I think this particular idea of his ended up biting him in the ass and now he's biting them in the ass for it. All in all, he's at least saying "You aren't pulling anything over on me."

We have to remember he's got an all-rookie pool of WRs out there with AJ and Walter out, a second-year QB, a lot of youngsters on the OL too. He's making sure they all understand their place in the world.

GP, taking this in the full context of what GK said I'm not so sure I follow. He did the same thing with last year's team and they responded well. These guys din't. Thus he challenged them again.

I wasn't in the locker room after practice so I have nothing concrete to base on, but my bet is that there was some missing buttock when the players left and they have one more opportunity to prove themselves or the kid gloves are off.

Reference the video TC posted prior.

Again, just a guess/hunch on my part. We'll see if it ends differently tomorrow.

Texecutioner
06-06-2012, 07:06 PM
GP, taking this in the full context of what GK said I'm not so sure I follow. He did the same thing with last year's team and they responded well. These guys din't. Thus he challenged them again.

I wasn't in the locker room after practice so I have nothing concrete to base on, but my bet is that there was some missing buttock when the players left and they have one more opportunity to prove themselves or the kid gloves are off.

Reference the video TC posted prior.

Again, just a guess/hunch on my part. We'll see if it ends differently tomorrow.

I like this from Gary actually. Get after their asses!!! :pissed:

Texan_Bill
06-06-2012, 07:10 PM
I like this from Gary actually. Get after their asses!!! :pissed:

Absolutely.... Expectations for this season are even higher than last year.

Rey
06-06-2012, 08:46 PM
I would call it a poor decision on two accounts: 1. Rewarding them before they had accomplished something, then 2. getting onto them when they took the reward and ran with it..err, uh...walked with it.
.

Gp, the team is full of players that were here last year and apparently handled it well. And you're saying they didn't earn it and you have no idea what you're talking about.

He may have liked the way they had practiced in the days leading up to that day.

They may have done well in meetings. They could have just given extra effort for a practice prior.

Coaches do this stuff all the time. This is fairly insignificant at this point.

GP
06-06-2012, 09:12 PM
Gp, the team is full of players that were here last year and apparently handled it well. And you're saying they didn't earn it and you have no idea what you're talking about.

He may have liked the way they had practiced in the days leading up to that day.

They may have done well in meetings. They could have just given extra effort for a practice prior.

Coaches do this stuff all the time. This is fairly insignificant at this point.

Oh sure, I know full well it is insignificant at this point. But then again what else is there to talk about? I just found it amusing that he rewarded them and then they slacked up a little bit.

When I get rewarded, I tend to think (as most self-serving humans like me do) that it means I have done well enough to maybe slow down and enjoy life a bit more. Admittedly, we work our hardest when we think people are not pleased with us.

I was remarking how Gary was a bit put out with the guys dogging it out there...when in reality, it's freaking OTAs and really none of them need to be rewarded with anything other than proper amounts of drinking water and "good job, guys" from the coaches. If it's a long road to the Super Bowl, what is ANY coach doing with the mindset that OTAs are meant for taking a day off and hitting the paintball field?

GP, taking this in the full context of what GK said I'm not so sure I follow. He did the same thing with last year's team and they responded well. These guys din't. Thus he challenged them again.

I wasn't in the locker room after practice so I have nothing concrete to base on, but my bet is that there was some missing buttock when the players left and they have one more opportunity to prove themselves or the kid gloves are off.

Reference the video TC posted prior.

Again, just a guess/hunch on my part. We'll see if it ends differently tomorrow.

Well, I couldn't watch the video due to download problems. Will have to try again tonight.

I was going off the text of the quote, which sounded like Gary was shocked that the team isn't Super Bowl-ready right now in OTAs. My suggestion, since I am good at giving unsolicited advice free of charge to those who don't give a ****, is for Gary to stop rewarding and just GATA--Get After Their Asses.

This could make or break the season.

LOL. Absolutely! Our future hinges on this! :pissed:

badboy
06-06-2012, 09:20 PM
I would call it a poor decision on two accounts: 1. Rewarding them before they had accomplished something, then 2. getting onto them when they took the reward and ran with it..err, uh...walked with it.

He gave them an afternoon off from weights, IIRC, when the two field goal kickers made their kicks. Everyone cheered, rightfully so, and the reward came AFTER an accomplishment on the field. This time, he rewarded them up-front and then they dogged it a little...how else did he expect human nature to react to an up-front reward? LOL.

For the record, I don't think Kubiak is crazy or dumb. I think this particular idea of his ended up biting him in the ass and now he's biting them in the ass for it. All in all, he's at least saying "You aren't pulling anything over on me."

We have to remember he's got an all-rookie pool of WRs out there with AJ and Walter out, a second-year QB, a lot of youngsters on the OL too. He's making sure they all understand their place in the world.Totally disagree, as a leader I have used same technique very successfully. Kubiak could care less about this incident. He will use it to remind them later that he tried to do right thing. "Look, I wanted to be nice to you guys but look how you acted way back in OTA's and you went sideways on me. Now the team will motivate itself. He just bound his players even tighter to him. Perfect psychological move.

GP
06-06-2012, 09:24 PM
Totally disagree, as a leader I have used same technique very successfully. Kubiak could care less about this incident. He will use it to remind them later that he tried to do right thing. "Look, I wanted to be nice to you guys but look how you acted way back in OTA's and you went sideways on me. Now the team will motivate itself. He just bound his players even tighter to him. Perfect psychological move.

I don't think we disagree all that much, actually.

If anybody can spin things, it's Gary. He'll definitely leverage this incident to help the effort out somewhere down the line. He's had those guys stick it out through the lean years, which means he's got their loyalty, so I think we agree on that. I do.

I'm just saying that OTAs is a bit early for him to reward. He already gave them a reward a few days ago. I think rewards have to be used sparingly or you create a reward-heavy culture whereby it becomes expected that you're going to get rewarded for everything. Make it special. Make it count.

Texans_Chick
06-06-2012, 09:46 PM
Not a bfd.

They did a lot of different things today and a very very fast tempo. Few drills before they jumped right into two minute drill stuff. It was 86 degrees no wind a lot of young guys.

I'm guessing tomorrow's practice is better.

Wolf
06-06-2012, 10:31 PM
I would call it a poor decision on two accounts: 1. Rewarding them before they had accomplished something, then 2. getting onto them when they took the reward and ran with it..err, uh...walked with it.

He gave them an afternoon off from weights, IIRC, when the two field goal kickers made their kicks. Everyone cheered, rightfully so, and the reward came AFTER an accomplishment on the field. This time, he rewarded them up-front and then they dogged it a little...how else did he expect human nature to react to an up-front reward? LOL.

For the record, I don't think Kubiak is crazy or dumb. I think this particular idea of his ended up biting him in the ass and now he's biting them in the ass for it. All in all, he's at least saying "You aren't pulling anything over on me."

We have to remember he's got an all-rookie pool of WRs out there with AJ and Walter out, a second-year QB, a lot of youngsters on the OL too. He's making sure they all understand their place in the world.
agree with he is making sure they know their place. I think with this early in the season. He wanted to see how the youngsters responded to some "easy time"

I also agree with TC it is no BFD this early in the season (technically) but I think he is sending a message to the youngsters to be ready when the hitting starts.like my dad says you practice how you are going to play.(granted OTA's cant have hitting...cough *seahawks* cough)

TexansRule1
06-06-2012, 10:41 PM
I like this strategy and am thinking about incorporating into my managerial style. He is saying you have to deserve any perk I provide you. I can take it away at any moment.

He can add additional perks, minor perks that he can keep in place on a permanent basis as long as the team shows a high level of energy. Further, it keeps the players accountable to each other to maintain that standard.

Contrast this to a single goal which creates a let up when achieved.

Corrosion
06-06-2012, 10:50 PM
I just dont like Gary Kubiak , the man can win half a dozen Superbowls in a row and I'll still think he sucks.






:corrosion:

GP
06-06-2012, 11:14 PM
Why I oughtta'......:bat:

rush2112mn
06-06-2012, 11:21 PM
I think we can call it ........Helmetgate 2012......

welsh texan
06-07-2012, 04:14 AM
This seems like a bit of a change from Kubiak, I don't think I've seen him comment on practices negatively before, but I may be wrong.

Frankly, I'm glad to see him holding his players to account, lets not forget that the roster is expanded from previous years quite a bit, with a much higher % of rookies than before, and as much as we're all excited about so many of the UDFA prospects we've signed, you know the level of quality is lower overall because there is a reason why each of these guys went undrafted, and the more I hear about them being great prospects, the more I think attitude etc must have contributed to their falling out of the draft.

I'm probably overanalysing though, its one bad day/one bad session even and I'm sure at this time of season the coaches will take any excuse they can to light a fire under their players and get them giving that little bit extra.

Good to see Gary getting after people though, he's normally very calm and composed in public.

TEXANRED
06-07-2012, 06:58 AM
Absolutely.... Expectations for this season are even higher than last year.
Yep. Superbowl or stay home!

El Tejano
06-07-2012, 07:45 AM
What's wrong Gary? Missing a "Captain" to keep everyone working hard?

SheTexan
06-07-2012, 08:03 AM
What's wrong Gary? Missing a "Captain" to keep everyone working hard?

LOL!! Read my mind! BUT, since I still get hammered for being "upset" I was remaining silent! THANKS for making me feel I'm not alone with my thoughts!!

As for the topic of the thread! LESSON learned, if they're smart! If not, they can go play for the Cowboys! :evil:

TexanSam
06-07-2012, 08:29 AM
What's wrong Gary? Missing a "Captain" to keep everyone working hard?

Pretty sure Kubiak criticized last year's team as well. Maybe not for this particular practice, but during training camp.

281
06-07-2012, 08:40 AM
"practice? we talkin' about practice, man? we ain't talkin about the game... we talkin' 'bout... practice..."

seriously, this is a non-story.

Vinny
06-07-2012, 09:03 AM
It's better than dog-cussing the catering.

ObsiWan
06-07-2012, 12:11 PM
What's wrong Gary? Missing a "Captain" to keep everyone working hard?

LOL!! Read my mind! BUT, since I still get hammered for being "upset" I was remaining silent! THANKS for making me feel I'm not alone with my thoughts!!

As for the topic of the thread! LESSON learned, if they're smart! If not, they can go play for the Cowboys! :evil:

I totally was expecting SheTexan to post that remark.
:D

SheTexan
06-07-2012, 03:12 PM
I totally was expecting SheTexan to post that remark.
:D



:shetexan:

thunderkyss
06-07-2012, 04:34 PM
He let them go without helmets today, and wasn't satisfied with the way they responded to the reward.

Lesson to be learned: Don't give rewards out too early. Duh.

Kids will take a mile if you give them an inch, Gary.

You should be coaching in the NFL

thunderkyss
06-07-2012, 04:46 PM
I was remarking how Gary was a bit put out with the guys dogging it out there...when in reality, it's freaking OTAs and really none of them need to be rewarded with anything other than proper amounts of drinking water and "good job, guys" from the coaches.


Seriously.....
The Man in Black (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/quotes)
Truly you have a dizzying intellect

Texans_Chick
06-07-2012, 05:58 PM
Every year GK complains about a practice or two.

Every year they practice better the next day.

Just how it is. Do you do your job just as good every single day? Especially when you are learning something new. Nope.

thunderkyss
06-07-2012, 06:58 PM
Every year GK complains about a practice or two.

Every year they practice better the next day.

Just how it is. Do you do your job just as good every single day? Especially when you are learning something new. Nope.

Actually, this is the first time I get the feeling he's using the media to talk to his team. That's never been his M.O. before.

But again, we're in uncharted waters, trying to follow up our most successful season to date with an equally successful, if not more successful, season.

I think this season is going to be one heck of a ride.

Texan_Bill
06-07-2012, 07:20 PM
Seriously.....

Don't bother TK.... GP is in his "zone". Remember, he said up thread that if GK won 6 Super Bowls, GP would still think he sucks! :smiliepalm:

drs23
06-07-2012, 07:20 PM
Actually, this is the first time I get the feeling he's using the media to talk to his team. That's never been his M.O. before.

But again, we're in uncharted waters, trying to follow up our most successful season to date with an equally successful, if not more successful, season.

I think this season is going to be one heck of a ride.

idonno: TK. I've heard him talk about not being pleased with the way they practiced/finished several times before. IIRC he even had them on the field instead of the bubble prior to leaving for a game because he wasn't pleased with the practice the day prior. Too lazy to research an article but it's happened before. This isn't a new "MO".

GuerillaBlack
06-07-2012, 07:23 PM
#Good Job!! Good Effort!!

Texan_Bill
06-07-2012, 07:28 PM
What's wrong Gary? Missing a "Captain" to keep everyone working hard?

I don't think anyone is missing a LB who was a two down player for the money he was making. Was he a "good locker room guy"? Sure he was!! Was he a fan favorite? Sure he was (myself included)!! Although it's pretty clear that DeMeco is better suited in a 4-3, not a 3-4.

That said, overpaying for fan favorites is pretty stupid.

Signed,
The Steelers and Patriots



Do I think Bradie James is the answer? Not so much. I hope he'll be servicable at a lot less money.

DeMeco..... I think he will have a Pro-Bowl (if there is one ;) this year) in Philly and will totally be the leader that their defense needs.


Remember folks, it's about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

Vinnie
06-07-2012, 09:34 PM
#Good Job!! Good Effort!!

Leave that poor kid alone, LOL!

Vinnie
06-07-2012, 09:37 PM
That said, overpaying for fan favorites is pretty stupid.

So you're saying we're not getting David Anderson back?

Corrosion
06-07-2012, 10:30 PM
Why I oughtta'......:bat:

It was the truth wasnt it ?! :kitten:

GP
06-07-2012, 11:03 PM
Actually, this is the first time I get the feeling he's using the media to talk to his team. That's never been his M.O. before.

But again, we're in uncharted waters, trying to follow up our most successful season to date with an equally successful, if not more successful, season.

I think this season is going to be one heck of a ride.

What??? Every year he sends subtle messages to the players via the media...ESPECIALLY during OTAs and camp.

Where've you been?

ObsiWan
06-08-2012, 01:04 AM
Seriously.....The Man in Black (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/quotes)
Truly you have a dizzying intellect

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8TNacAIjG83XX8koQLH92ZmyuOaUkH 3bw_u5s1qaGQbiEHY2p

gotta have the pict to go with the quote, TK

I love that movie. Perfectly campy.

thunderkyss
06-08-2012, 12:39 PM
What??? Every year he sends subtle messages to the players via the media...ESPECIALLY during OTAs and camp.

Where've you been?

Every year, he tells us about what's going on in Camp..... they did this, we tried that.... they loafed a bit.... etc..

This is the first time I've heard him say, "I threw them a bone, they failed to meet my expectations, I will give them another shot tomorrow... "

He's called a player or two out, sort of, "He has to play big for us this year." " We expect him to take a big leap this year" that kind of thing.

But this is different. Subtle, but different.

Rey
06-08-2012, 12:41 PM
Every year, he tells us about what's going on in Camp..... they did this, we tried that.... they loafed a bit.... etc..

This is the first time I've heard him say, "I threw them a bone, they failed to meet my expectations, I will give them another shot tomorrow... "

He's called a player or two out, sort of, "He has to play big for us this year." " We expect him to take a big leap this year" that kind of thing.

But this is different. Subtle, but different.

So in your opinion what does it ultimately mean...

thunderkyss
06-08-2012, 01:11 PM
So in your opinion what does it ultimately mean...

That he knows this is a different situation, that maybe it's time to try to get to the guys through another avenue....

A lot of people here are, "We were 'this' last year" or We had 'that' last year" "So we should be able to do....... 'x' this year"

& it just doesn't work this way. Gary Kubiak's biggest enemy this year is last years success.

GP
06-08-2012, 01:14 PM
Every year, he tells us about what's going on in Camp..... they did this, we tried that.... they loafed a bit.... etc..

This is the first time I've heard him say, "I threw them a bone, they failed to meet my expectations, I will give them another shot tomorrow... "

He's called a player or two out, sort of, "He has to play big for us this year." " We expect him to take a big leap this year" that kind of thing.

But this is different. Subtle, but different.

How is this different? LOL. You're pulling a Bill Clinton semantics on us here. "It depends on what "is" means..." -- Bill Clinton. Furthermore, when he says he'll give them another shot the next day,m it's not like anybody's getting cut and it's not like he's going to make them run to Pasadena and back in full pads. He's simply saying that, obviously, they get another shot to come out the next day and prove him wrong or they'll get another ass chewing from him.

He has chided them as a group, he has chided them individually. He has been subtle. he has been overtly open about his meaning/context.

It took me all of 20 seconds to search for it on Google and I'll post only one of about 2,000 examples that you and I, or anybody else for that matter, could find on this issue. The two quotes are at the end of this post.

Gary Kubiak has called players out, by name, and has said "He needs to get better" or "That kid is good, but he has trouble with consistency out there" I mean, seriously...it's not even up for debate. if anything, Gary has always been a bit grumpy in camp and OTAs. He uses his comments, every year, to motivate the guys individually and as a group.

Gary Kubiak has never been one to skirt the issue(s) of OTAs and camp, whether it is individual players or the group as a whole. I don't see anything different now compared to years' past. It's the same old schtick, different year.

Below are quotes from camp in 2010. He was all over Ben Tate's ass, trying to motivate him. Nothing subtle, and nothing new. Standard operating procedure, actually.

(on if he’s happy with RB Ben Tate right now) “He’s up and down right now. He’s every bit the talent that we drafted. He’s learning to be a pro. He has to catch up because he missed a lot time because he missed OTAs. He needs to know to get his motor going when he leaves out of the locker room and not 30 minutes in to practice. He’s working and he’s giving us what he’s got. He could help this team if he continues to grow up.” Ouch.

(on the play of the defensive line during nine on nine running drills today in practice) “We were really slow to get it going this morning. I didn’t like our energy as a football team. We practiced better after we got going. We’ve been pretty consistent on defense. I’ve been telling you all that quite often through camp. Offensively we need to get more consistent in what we’re doing. It’s a good competition, good end of the practice. It was good competition at both sides of the ball.

Here's the link to Gary Kubiak making not-so-subtle hints (http://www.texansbullblog.com/kubiak-speaks-media-decipher-secret-code-coachspeak-8102010/news/) at which players are needing to step up.

GP
06-08-2012, 01:32 PM
What happened is this:

1. Last week, the two kickers made kicks, which actually if we put it under scrutiny we find out that Graham missed a lot of kicks...so I don't know what standard Kubiak was using to measure what parameters guaranteed the players an afternoon off from the weight room, but oh well. He gave them an afternoon off. Good for them. The key here is that he rewarded them AFTER practice had concluded, not before practice had begun.

2, Gary then turns around a few days later and allows them to practice without helmets, and he gets angry about their tempo or their effort during that practice. The problem, IMO, is that he rewarded them before they did anything to earn it.

To me, I think Gary is more pissed off at himself for having rewarded them the second time and then it turns out they loafed on him as a result. Lesson to be learned is that you give the reward AFTER practice, not before practice begins.

Anybody here get a bonus at your workplace for a job you haven't done yet? Anybody here give your kid their allowance money BEFORE they did their chores? Rewards come after, not before. Seems to me like it's a basic, elementary function of the reward system. Gary ignored the way the system naturally works, and the result was predictable. Bet he doesn't do it again, though. LOL.

Gary's a good dad. He won't reward his kids too early the rest of the way.

infantrycak
06-08-2012, 02:09 PM
2, Gary then turns around a few days later and allows them to practice without helmets, and he gets angry about their tempo or their effort during that practice. The problem, IMO, is that he rewarded them before they did anything to earn it.

What makes you keep saying the reward was before? Why couldn't it have been for the performance up to that day? Is there a quote somewhere?

Texans_Chick
06-08-2012, 08:48 PM
What happened is this:

1. Last week, the two kickers made kicks, which actually if we put it under scrutiny we find out that Graham missed a lot of kicks...so I don't know what standard Kubiak was using to measure what parameters guaranteed the players an afternoon off from the weight room, but oh well. He gave them an afternoon off. Good for them. The key here is that he rewarded them AFTER practice had concluded, not before practice had begun.

2, Gary then turns around a few days later and allows them to practice without helmets, and he gets angry about their tempo or their effort during that practice. The problem, IMO, is that he rewarded them before they did anything to earn it.

To me, I think Gary is more pissed off at himself for having rewarded them the second time and then it turns out they loafed on him as a result. Lesson to be learned is that you give the reward AFTER practice, not before practice begins.

Anybody here get a bonus at your workplace for a job you haven't done yet? Anybody here give your kid their allowance money BEFORE they did their chores? Rewards come after, not before. Seems to me like it's a basic, elementary function of the reward system. Gary ignored the way the system naturally works, and the result was predictable. Bet he doesn't do it again, though. LOL.

Gary's a good dad. He won't reward his kids too early the rest of the way.

What?

They were on week 3 of OTAs. The hottest day of OTAs they go without helmets and do a lot of new things they hadn't done the rest of OTAs at a very very fast pace, and Kubiak didn't how they responded and said so.

And then on the next super hot day at a very very fast tempo, they went without helmets and did better.

It is not a bfd.

GP
06-09-2012, 12:07 AM
What?

They were on week 3 of OTAs. The hottest day of OTAs they go without helmets and do a lot of new things they hadn't done the rest of OTAs at a very very fast pace, and Kubiak didn't how they responded and said so.

And then on the next super hot day at a very very fast tempo, they went without helmets and did better.

It is not a bfd.

Well, not everybody gets to attend like you do. So to you, it's not a bfd...but to us, we just have nothing but each other to sit around and talk to.

So we argue, like guys like to do. It's for fun. We're bored.

ObsiWan
06-09-2012, 01:44 AM
Sooooo... is training camp going to be open to the fans as it usually is or what? I haven't seen a thing about how to get tickets or anything. Usually there's some info on the mothership site regarding how to sign up by now...

Did I miss a memo?

Texans_Chick
06-09-2012, 08:21 AM
Well, not everybody gets to attend like you do. So to you, it's not a bfd...but to us, we just have nothing but each other to sit around and talk to.

So we argue, like guys like to do. It's for fun. We're bored.

Even if I wasn't there, I'd say it isn't a big deal because Kubiak says this sort of stuff every year. Just basic carrots sticks 101.

Personally, I do not like to argue for argument's sake. I like MB to find out what truths can be found from enthusiastic like-minded peoples.

Besides, I thought guys were not supposed to like to argue. That they didn't like silly drama and speculation based on little evidence. /wink :cool:

Texans_Chick
06-09-2012, 08:22 AM
Sooooo... is training camp going to be open to the fans as it usually is or what? I haven't seen a thing about how to get tickets or anything. Usually there's some info on the mothership site regarding how to sign up by now...

Did I miss a memo?

Talked to a few people, they didn't have training camp info yet. I'm sure that some of training camp will be open to the public.

ChampionTexan
06-09-2012, 09:19 AM
Sooooo... is training camp going to be open to the fans as it usually is or what? I haven't seen a thing about how to get tickets or anything. Usually there's some info on the mothership site regarding how to sign up by now...

Did I miss a memo?

The open training camp practice schedule was announced in early July and late June for 2010 and 2009 respectively. Don't sweat it yet. Because of the lockout, I didn't bother to check when it was announced last year.

2010 (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-1/Training-camp-tickets-six-open-practices-available-next-week/6B3924CD-A362-4CCC-81C3-2886A9289998)
2009 (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-1/Training-camp-open-practices/B7C1C34E-935A-4F7B-9773-DDB0D2CF7A51)

steelbtexan
06-09-2012, 09:24 AM
Gary, these players were handpicked by Wade and you.

If they are showing lack of effort it's on you.

Playoffs
06-09-2012, 09:26 AM
Besides, I thought guys were not supposed to like to argue. That they didn't like silly drama and speculation based on little evidence.
Whatever you do, don't venture into the NSZ. :slapfight:

I think TT can get a few more pages out of this incident, it being so pivotal & all. ;)

Rey
06-09-2012, 09:44 AM
Gary Kubiak's biggest enemy this year is last years success.

See, I'm torn on that. I think a lot of the fans have these unreasonable expectations, but if im a member of that team I'm thinking: "what success?"

The fans are excited because we made it to the play offs for the first time and went toe to toe with baltimore without schaub. People figure we should be better this year, but every team in the NFL thinks they'll be better this year.

I just can't imagine a football team thinking like the fans do with regards to last years success.

I don't think this was a big deal at all, but its interesting to see peoples perspectives on kubiak saying this.

SheTexan
06-09-2012, 10:09 AM
Gary, these players were handpicked by Wade and you.

If they are showing lack of effort it's on you.

Not sure I agree! All Wade and GK know about these players is what they see on film, saw at the combine, and what scouts tell them. They didn't LIVE with these guys for the past 21 years and know all their bad habits.. Sure, they need to be motivated, and that's Wades and GKs job, but, some "kids" just don't "get it" until it's to late. For instance: problems getting up early (not a morning person,) short attention spans, intolerance to the Houston heat, failure to STUDY the playbook, overall laziness, OCHO mentality, attitude that they got drafted so that's good enough, arrogance, bad habits they've lived with all their lives. If a player is showing "lack of effort" and they have been warned, NOTHING and NOONE can change them. That's not WP or GKs fault. JMO. They just can't know EVERYTHING about all these guys. That's what they have OTAs and TC for. LACK of EFFORT players can either get with the program or get cut. NO babysittin allowed! :texflag:

infantrycak
06-09-2012, 11:05 AM
If a player is showing "lack of effort" and they have been warned, NOTHING and NOONE can change them.

Agree generally with your post. I think the above is a little over stated but to spin off it I think fans come from a never having played a team sport to a high school and maybe college level perspective. NFL coaches can't do the same things to millionaire athletes that people remember their HS coaches doing. They can't get PO'd like my basketball coach who would make us run laps in the gym and then would stand in the middle with racks of balls and hurl them at us to express his displeasure. The balance of power is much different in the NFL when you have a $15 mil per year athlete talking to the $2.5 mil coach than it was in HS or college.

thunderkyss
06-09-2012, 03:08 PM
I just can't imagine a football team thinking like the fans do with regards to last years success.

I don't think this was a big deal at all, but its interesting to see peoples perspectives on kubiak saying this.

People are funny. You never know how the same event will affect them, & you never know what truly motivates a person until you're down in the trenches.

I think the last 2 years have been rough on Kubes, job in jeopardy & all that. For all we know, he might think he has some breathing room. After the Jacoby "years" he may feel it isn't worth it to harp on making meetings & that kind of stuff, & give these young guys a pass as long as they deliver on the field.

Or maybe he thinks like you, that last year was nothing & he needs to be even harder on the guys.

One way or the other, he's got to manage 53 individuals (not counting coaches & staff) towards one goal & they'll all react differently to last season. There's a lot to feel good about last year, & less to prove than in years past. That underdog thing, that, "they don't believe in you, but I do." trick won't work any more. He's going to have to find another reason to bring this team together.

ObsiWan
06-10-2012, 05:20 PM
Or maybe he thinks like you, that last year was nothing & he needs to be even harder on the guys.


Based on this Kubiak quote (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Wednesdays-OTA/b6c3115e-1ae0-494e-9430-be7e876e0472), I think it's the above...

(on if there is a different sense of urgency among the team because of what it accomplished last year) “No. I have the same sense of urgency every year. As a matter of fact, I just told the guys right now, I took their helmets off today and gave them a bone, so to speak and they didn’t respond to it. Last year’s team responded to it very well. This year’s team first chance wasn’t very good. I told them I’ll give them one more chance tomorrow or there won’t be any more of those days. 2011 is over. It’s 2012 and we’ve got a lot of work to do and our expectations as a football team stay the same all the time.”

Rey
06-10-2012, 05:36 PM
They can't get PO'd like my basketball coach who would make us run laps in the gym and then would stand in the middle with racks of balls and hurl them at us to express his displeasure. The balance of power is much different in the NFL when you have a $15 mil per year athlete talking to the $2.5 mil coach than it was in HS or college.

I agree and disagree. You have a few guys on the team making that kind of coin and I think the texans have done a good job of spending that kind of money on guys that they don't have to baby sit.

But a vast majority of guys on the team right now are "afraid" of the coach. Getting cut is much more scary than being made to run a couple extra laps.

When an NFL coach says the team isn't working hard enough, best believe plenty of ears are perking up.

On this team I'd imagine the upper tier players are listening too just because if who they are. And the other guys on the team are listening because they don't want to be out of a job earlier than they have to be.

So yeah, the punishment is different but at the end if the day I'd say a majority of pro athletes still have that respect or fear of their coaches. And then if they don't , hopefully they are the type of player that is prideful and will play hard regardless.

infantrycak
06-10-2012, 05:47 PM
I agree and disagree. You have a few guys on the team making that kind of coin and I think the texans have done a good job of spending that kind of money on guys that they don't have to baby sit.

But a vast majority of guys on the team right now are "afraid" of the coach. Getting cut is much more scary than being made to run a couple extra laps.

When an NFL coach says the team isn't working hard enough, best believe plenty of ears are perking up.

On this team I'd imagine the upper tier players are listening too just because if who they are. And the other guys on the team are listening because they don't want to be out of a job earlier than they have to be.

So yeah, the punishment is different but at the end if the day I'd say a majority of pro athletes still have that respect or fear of their coaches. And then if they don't , hopefully they are the type of player that is prideful and will play hard regardless.

I didn't say anything about ears not perking up or players not paying attention to coaches. My point is NFL players have to be handled differently than the coaches we as fans generally experienced. Different techniques have to be used. Kubiak isn't happy with the effort level he isn't going to have them do up downs for an hour as punishment.

It doesn't matter that there are only 15 or so guys on the team who make more than the coach. The coach can't afford to treat them blatantly different than the other two thirds of the team. Create two tiers like that and you will lose the respect of 100% of the team.

Rey
06-10-2012, 06:11 PM
I didn't say anything about ears not perking up or players not paying attention to coaches. My point is NFL players have to be handled differently than the coaches we as fans generally experienced. Different techniques have to be used. Kubiak isn't happy with the effort level he isn't going to have them do up downs for an hour as punishment.

It doesn't matter that there are only 15 or so guys on the team who make more than the coach. The coach can't afford to treat them blatantly different than the other two thirds of the team. Create two tiers like that and you will lose the respect of 100% of the team.

I didn't say anything about treating guys differently.

And if you think the top tier guys aren't treated differently you are mistaken.

And I understand he isn't going to run them, but he is going to "punish" them still. Taking away the " helmets off privilege" is the exact same thing high school and college coaches do. And NFL coaches will have their guys do extra conditioning. And I've never had any coach college or highschool that had us do up downs for an hour as punishment.

I don't even know what you're talking about with that.

My point is that most NFL coaches are not afraid to get in their players faces or discipline them at all. Not even sure what all that other stuff you typed is about.

infantrycak
06-10-2012, 06:42 PM
Wow, six sentences is "all that other stuff."

Anyway, the point you partially disagreed with is coaches in the NFL can't and don't use the same techniques HS and maybe college coaches which fans may have experienced as athletes (I am not aware of any of our members being former NFL players). Essentially your post was non-responsive to mine. I didn't say players weren't afraid of coaches. I said coaches couldn't treat them like HS and college students. If you don't think the balance of power is different then just agree to disagree.

Rey
06-10-2012, 07:31 PM
Wow, six sentences is "all that other stuff."

Anyway, the point you partially disagreed with is coaches in the NFL can't and don't use the same techniques HS and maybe college coaches which fans may have experienced as athletes (I am not aware of any of our members being former NFL players). Essentially your post was non-responsive to mine. I didn't say players weren't afraid of coaches. I said coaches couldn't treat them like HS and college students. If you don't think the balance of power is different then just agree to disagree.

Are you even reading what I posted?

I acknowledged that coaches in the NFL couldn't treat players exactly like high school kids.

If that is your main point then it's not even much of a point at all and I think the best response to that would be "duh".

My point is that while NFL coaches can't be high school and college coaches a lot of that fear and respect factor still remain. The discipline changes on each level, but I'd argue that NFL players are more likely to respond to their forms of discipline than a high school or college player is to theirs.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but it seems like you were saying that coaches in the NFL have to be creative with discipline or have to be careful because players are more valuable or worth more than they are.

If you were simply saying that NFL coaches don't run their players silly as a discipline measure the, ok, I guess.

VTexan
06-10-2012, 07:51 PM
This could make or break the season.

http://imageftw.com/uploads/20120610/pineapple-express-james-franco-and-seth-rogen-laughing-1711.gif

infantrycak
06-10-2012, 08:37 PM
Are you even reading what I posted?

I acknowledged that coaches in the NFL couldn't treat players exactly like high school kids.

If that is your main point then it's not even much of a point at all and I think the best response to that would be "duh".

Well then you should have stuck to duh or silence as a response since that was pretty blatantly the point - that and fans view things from their own HS or college experience and the NFL is different.

Pretty freaking plain from my post:

I think fans come from a never having played a team sport to a high school and maybe college level perspective. NFL coaches can't do the same things to millionaire athletes that people remember their HS coaches doing.

So if it is so duh (traditionally translated as incredibly obvious) to you then you don't need to comment on it now do you nor do you need to comment "I agree and disagree." Ooops, except duh, you did.

Rey
06-10-2012, 08:48 PM
Well then you should have stuck to duh or silence as a response since that was pretty blatantly the point - that and fans view things from their own HS or college experience and the NFL is different.

Pretty freaking plain from my post:



So if it is so duh (traditionally translated as incredibly obvious) to you then you don't need to comment on it now do you nor do you need to comment "I agree and disagree." Ooops, except duh, you did.

I just figured that your post would be more insightful than red is different from green. I thought (obviously incorrectly) that you had a point you were trying to make.

I guess I was wrong.

And you are dangerously close to "well you didn't play in the NFL, so you can't comment on that". Look around, it's a message board. Another duh comment, I guess.

And I will say that playing high school and college and semi pro for anyone who's done that is a hell of a lot closer to not having played at all.

And to the point if the post you quoted from yourself, my response was basically no they can't do the same things exactly, but they can still effectively discipline poor practice habits or effort none the less.

infantrycak
06-10-2012, 09:08 PM
I just figured that your post would be more insightful than red is different from green. I thought (obviously incorrectly) that you had a point you were trying to make.

I guess I was wrong.

Oooh, I feel so burnt. I am sorry it took you an exchange of 10 posts for you to comprehend what was plainly stated in the first one.

And you are dangerously close to "well you didn't play in the NFL, so you can't comment on that". Look around, it's a message board. Another duh comment, I guess.

If you had any reading comprehension whatsoever you wouldn't come close to making this statement. You've already acceded to the reality of my point but to make painfully clear to you, which should have been clear to someone with elementary school reading skills, I said nothing about the ability of anyone to comment on anything. What I said was people filter things and view them through their experiences and in this instance they should acknowledge the difference. They shouldn't expect an NFL coach to behave like their HS coach. Now if that isn't clear enough for you or is so duh for you then just walk away because you have added nothing (and to be explicit I say the last as a participant in the thread not as a mod before you go off on some other stupid tangent).

Rey
06-10-2012, 11:22 PM
Oooh, I feel so burnt. I am sorry it took you an exchange of 10 posts for you to comprehend what was plainly stated in the first one.



If you had any reading comprehension whatsoever you wouldn't come close to making this statement. You've already acceded to the reality of my point but to make painfully clear to you, which should have been clear to someone with elementary school reading skills, I said nothing about the ability of anyone to comment on anything. What I said was people filter things and view them through their experiences and in this instance they should acknowledge the difference. They shouldn't expect an NFL coach to behave like their HS coach. Now if that isn't clear enough for you or is so duh for you then just walk away because you have added nothing (and to be explicit I say the last as a participant in the thread not as a mod before you go off on some other stupid tangent).

Do you know what "dangerously close" means?

Talk about reading comprehension. You should get some. I never Once stated that you said people couldn't comment on anything.

I made a simple post with regards to your original post on this conversation which was basically, no NFL coaches aren't college coaches, but they still punish their players.

And I was not trying to "burn" you. I don't know you and really don't have any kinds of emotions towards you in any way--basically, I'm apathetic with regards to burning you or pleasing you.

Honestly, I would suggest you go back and re read my initial response. It was not written with malice and neither were any of my other post. If you felt insulted or like I was trying to "burn", that's on you.

Also, I've never gone off on any tangent about the mods. Spare me. Most times I post from my phone and don't really pay attention to names. All I respond to are the actual posts.

infantrycak
06-10-2012, 11:32 PM
Also, I've never gone off on any tangent about the mods. Spare me. Most times I post from my phone and don't really pay attention to names. All I respond to are the actual posts.

The rest I will disregard as redundant. As to this, I was being preemptive. I was not accusing you of anything. The conversation just felt like it was reaching a point where such an accusation often gets launched. Consider it clarifying in advance just in case. I wanted to make clear this was all pure personal opinion.

thunderkyss
06-11-2012, 08:21 PM
Get a room.......

:kitten:

Texan_Bill
06-11-2012, 08:27 PM
Leave that poor kid alone, LOL!

#GOOD JOB, gOOD EFFORT!! GOOD JOB, gOOD EFFORT!! GOOD JOB, gOOD EFFORT!! GOOD JOB, gOOD EFFORT!! :kitten:

Texan_Bill
06-11-2012, 08:27 PM
GOOD JOB, gOOD EFFORT!!

Vinnie
06-11-2012, 10:30 PM
Good post Bill, good effort! Now effort me a beer if you dont mind.