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View Full Version : HOFamer Jim Brown rips Browns top pick Trent Richardson ("an average running back")


IDEXAN
05-25-2012, 12:01 PM
In recent years, Joe Namath has held the title of not just the New York Jets' most famous player, but also their most publicized critic.

We're now seeing Jim Brown, who sounded off on the Cleveland Browns this week, take a similar course.
Brown reiterated his belief -- first documented the day of the 2012 NFL Draft -- that Trent Richardson, chosen with the third overall pick, is an average running back. He later took aim at Browns president Mike Holmgren.

"When you think of greatness and the great backs, they all had some individual traits that you can identify -- quickness, balance, power, speed," Brown told ESPNCleveland.com on Wednesday night. "I think the kid is a good working back, and if you've got everything else around him he can play his role. But when it comes to 'outstanding,' I don't see anything outstanding about him.

"It's not said in a cruel manner. He's very efficient, and that's what you
want."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829543d2/article/jim-brown-still-down-on-trent-richardson-browns?module=HP11_content_stream

Allstar
05-25-2012, 01:54 PM
Brown has a serious case of sour grapes. He hates Holmgren and is on very bad terms with the Browns organization. it's pretty embarrassing for Cleveland fans.

IDEXAN
05-25-2012, 02:52 PM
Brown has a serious case of sour grapes. He hates Holmgren and is on very bad terms with the Browns organization. it's pretty embarrassing for Cleveland fans.
What's his beef with the Browns/Holmgren about ?

Texan_Bill
05-25-2012, 04:16 PM
What's his beef with the Browns/Holmgren about ?

Jim Brown was some sort of special advisor (think Bagwell with the Astros) and Holmgren relieved (think fired) Brown from that position.

disaacks3
05-25-2012, 04:41 PM
Jim Brown was some sort of special advisor (think Bagwell with the Astros) and Holmgren relieved (think fired) Brown from that position.

The letter:

Mike,

I would hope that you would take the time to read my agreement with the Clevelend Browns. I had no contract, but I was asked to write a job description so that my duties would be clear.

That job description included two things that I think are important. As Executive Advisor to the owner, my job was to use my intelligence, and my logic to advise Mr. Lerner. The second most important thing to me was a clause in that agreement that stated that I answered to noone except Randy Lerner. These two thing were highly important to me because I truly believed, with my educational background, having been a Cleveland Brown for 9 yrs, and having a pretty good knowledge of football, that I could contibute in a valuable way to the organization.

When you called me for a meeting in your office, there was no conversation about that agreement, no conversation about my duties, no conversation about what I felt, no conversation about my relationship with the players, no conversation about my relationship with the coaches, no conversation about my relationship with the head coach, and no conversation about my community work. Ultimately there was no conversation about anything that I felt was related to my job.

Your ultimatum to me was that you would offer me the opportunity of being that of the greeter, that of a mascot, that of a person that would represent special events by his physical presence, and for those things, I would receive a salary of $100,000. All of those things that you offered me would be controlled by you. . . .

I was able to study your press conference and found your statements to be consistent in the way that you value me, and I observed the comments of the key players that sat by your side, and here was the impression I got: Your most powerful statemnt about me was that, and I must laugh, one monkey donít stop the show. . .

But in my conclusion, Iíve never danced in the end zone, I always gave the ball to the referee, so you should know I donít dance. Also Mike, I donít hang out on the Westside of town. Iím an Eastside guy. I play my golf at Highland Golf Course. I donít go to the Hall of Fame ceremonies, except on occasions, like when Gene Hickerson was inducted, and I felt very proud to be with Bobby Mitchell and Leroy Kelly in showing our respect for his great contribution, and for helping us become great players. I donít have any trophies in my home on display. I donít claim to be the best at anything, and I emphatically do not need validation from any man, so I will not participate in your Ring of Honor. . . .

Mike, thereís only one thing that I control in life, and thatís being a man. So let me end with a little humor, because as you say, one monkey donít stop the show, and as I say ďWillie Lynch missed a few of usĒ, and there will be no Buck Dancing.

From #32

Monique Brown Link (http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2010/09/questions-about-jim-brown-mike-holmgren-and-randy-lerner/)

noxiousdog
05-25-2012, 05:11 PM
That might be the single greatest piece of writing I've seen from a professional athlete.

I'm highly impressed.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2

TEXANRED
05-28-2012, 12:56 AM
Brown has a serious case of sour grapes. He hates Holmgren and is on very bad terms with the Browns organization. it's pretty embarrassing for Cleveland fans.

Being a Cleveland Browns fan is embarrassing for Cleveland Browns fans.

Rey
05-28-2012, 01:27 AM
Sour grapes or not I agree with his take on Richardson and I said as much before the draft.

He doesn't suck, but I don't see special when I watch him play.

Playoffs
05-28-2012, 08:40 AM
If Brown has a beef with Holmgrem, he needs to take it up with Holmgrem...

Not use TR, who's a nice young man, an a go between whipping boy. Kinda chickensh!t.

And I disagree with Mr. Brown. I think TR had a chance to be special.

infantrycak
05-28-2012, 08:53 AM
If Brown has a beef with Holmgrem, he needs to take it up with Holmgrem...

Not use TR, who's a nice young man, an a go between whipping boy. Kinda chickensh!t.

And I disagree with Mr. Brown. I think TR had a chance to be special.

If y'all can prove this is some kind of petty thing with Holmgren fine. Fact is he may have a problem with Holmgren and still honestly believe TR isn't special. This is Jim freaking Brown - a guy who would appear in any top 5 RB's of all time list. He knows a little something about the position. H

He is kind of stating the obvious and he had a unique running style. This comment has nothing to do with Holmgren and is absolutely true:

"When you think of greatness and the great backs, they all had some individual traits that you can identify -- quickness, balance, power, speed," Brown told ESPNCleveland.com on Wednesday night. "I think the kid is a good working back, and if you've got everything else around him he can play his role. But when it comes to 'outstanding,' I don't see anything outstanding about him.

Barry had quickness and speed. Emmitt had balance and power (and short space quickness). For an analogy currently in the league I would say he thinks TR will be a Matt Forte - a very serviceable, highly productive RB but not a star.

Lucky
05-28-2012, 11:17 AM
Barry had quickness and speed. Emmitt had balance and power (and short space quickness). For an analogy currently in the league I would say he thinks TR will be a Matt Forte - a very serviceable, highly productive RB but not a star.
It's interesting that you bring up Emmitt Smith, because Brown doesn't believe he was special (http://larrybrownsports.com/football/jim-brown-not-a-fan-of-trent-richardson/137773).

ďIf you look at Emmitt Smith and the kind of blocking he had, I donít think heíd have close to the career he had (without it),Ē Brown said. ďBut if you take a Gale Sayers, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson Ö Earl Campbell, thereís something special there.


ďEmmitt was a warrior. But when it comes to the first level of backs, Emmitt would not be in my first level. So when I look at Richardson, I see adequate speed, adequate power, and a good attitude. But I donít see anything special. And I donít know if anyone can tell me thereís anything special.Ē

I'm not understanding Brown's criticism of the pick. Is Richardson the next Sayers, Payton, or Dickerson? Probably not. But Sayers, Payton, nor Dickerson were not in this draft. Richardson was, and was the best offensive player available. And Richardson is a better player and prospect than any WR in this draft.

I would compare Richardson favorably to Maurice Jones-Drew. A complete back with the ability to make big plays. I don't know how anyone (even the greatest RB who ever played) could look at Richardson's resume and not believe he will have success in the NFL.

infantrycak
05-28-2012, 11:33 AM
It's interesting that you bring up Emmitt Smith, because Brown doesn't believe he was special (http://larrybrownsports.com/football/jim-brown-not-a-fan-of-trent-richardson/137773).

I wasn't commenting on the merits of the comments on TR. Frankly I haven't watched him enough. I obviously disagree with the comments about Emmitt (another RB like Brown I think should be in the conversation for top 5 ever). But doesn't that kind of demonstrate Brown has his own opinion of RB's rather than he is just being sour grapes to the Browns?

Lucky
05-28-2012, 12:20 PM
But doesn't that kind of demonstrate Brown has his own opinion of RB's rather than he is just being sour grapes to the Browns?
Do you think Brown would have commented on Richardson if he had been drafted by Tampa Bay? I don't know. Would he have made the opinions known if still employed by the Browns? Don't know. But it's not a big reach to suggest that Brown has gone out of his way to disparage the selection of Richardson, and thereby criticize Mike Holmgren.

I think Brown has done that, and it's just over the top by Brown to assert that unless a RB is HOF level, he shouldn't be a high draft choice. I don't know if Arian Foster will ever make the HOF and be an all time great. But I would have taken him with the 3rd pick in this draft.

TEXANRED
05-28-2012, 12:24 PM
It's interesting that you bring up Emmitt Smith, because Brown doesn't believe he was special (http://larrybrownsports.com/football/jim-brown-not-a-fan-of-trent-richardson/137773).


I'm not understanding Brown's criticism of the pick. Is Richardson the next Sayers, Payton, or Dickerson? Probably not. But Sayers, Payton, nor Dickerson were not in this draft. Richardson was, and was the best offensive player available. And Richardson is a better player and prospect than any WR in this draft.

I would compare Richardson favorably to Maurice Jones-Drew. A complete back with the ability to make big plays. I don't know how anyone (even the greatest RB who ever played) could look at Richardson's resume and not believe he will have success in the NFL.
I don't think Brown was being critical of TR at all. When I read what he said it sounds like he thinks TR is just a guy, he was taken too high, and gave reasons for his opinion.

Brown is a HOF'er running back and one of the greatest running backs this game will ever see. A reporter asked for his opinion about a RB that his former team had just drafted and Brown gave it.

I will disagree with Brown about Smith, what had that was special was his tenacity and toughness. (Breaking his arm during a game and continuing to play comes to mind)

infantrycak
05-28-2012, 12:40 PM
Do you think Brown would have commented on Richardson if he had been drafted by Tampa Bay? I don't know. ...

Neither do I. I am just saying his willingness to criticize the league's all time leading rusher (who had no association with the Browns or Holmgren) shows he'll criticize anyone he wants - rookie or Hall of Famer.

HJam72
05-28-2012, 03:35 PM
Sometimes you know you're right and it's still maybe better to shut up. :kitten:

Of those things I have an opinion about, which I don't know this TR guy from Adam, I don't disagree with anything I've heard of Brown ever saying regarding RBs. Earl Campbell, for instance, over Emmitt Smith? Yeah, I'll go with Earl every time. Payton, Sanders? Yeah. Heck, I might take Tony Dorsett over Emmit, but that might be my childhood fanaticism talking. I do also agree that Emmit was a warrior and deserves respect.

But, I'm just a poster on message board, people don't get all up in arms about everything I say, and I don't have to worry about it. Unlike Brown, I just have to keep my mouth shut when I'm actually at work.

PS-I wonder if he'll ever get around to some comment (good or bad) about Foster.

Lucky
05-28-2012, 04:27 PM
Of those things I have an opinion about, which I don't know this TR guy from Adam, I don't disagree with anything I've heard of Brown ever saying regarding RBs.
I really disagree with the notion that everything out of Jim Brown's mouth is gold. Brown once called Maurice Clarett "fantastically talented" (http://www.cleveland.com/clarett/index.ssf?/clarett/more/clarett081203.html). Really? I would take Trent Richardson over Maurice Clarett in every aspect, other than felony convictions.

I believe Brown was the greatest runner the NFL has ever seen. But that doesn't make him the final word on who is a good RB. Joe Montana was the greatest QB I've ever seen. But, he sucked at analyzing the sport he dominated. Sucked hard. Performing and analyzing are two different skills.

infantrycak
05-28-2012, 05:02 PM
I believe Brown was the greatest runner the NFL has ever seen. But that doesn't make him the final word on who is a good RB. Joe Montana was the greatest QB I've ever seen. But, he sucked at analyzing the sport he dominated. Sucked hard. Performing and analyzing are two different skills.

Totally agree here. I also would pencil Brown in as the greatest runner but that doesn't mean he can evaluate RB's flawlessly. I will listen to him but that doesn't make his word golden.

eriadoc
05-28-2012, 05:50 PM
Totally agree here. I also would pencil Brown in as the greatest runner but that doesn't mean he can evaluate RB's flawlessly. I will listen to him but that doesn't make his word golden.

So, to totally take this thread into a tangent, I just don't buy it. When I watch old footage of Jim Brown (he was before my time), I see special, but I don't see SPECIAL. What I remember of Earl from when I was younger, and reinforced by video that is still out there of him, I see SPECIAL. That man did things that I don't think anyone will ever do again. And before anyone brings it up, yes I recognize the longevity argument. Earl was quality over quantity. I have never seen footage of another RB that impresses me as much as Earl's game. He had dancer's feet, defensive back speed, unparalleled balance, and the power of a Mack truck. If longevity is your measuring stick, then fine, I give you that. But no one played RB like Earl.

Jim Brown footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4QQ9fnAgBU)

Earl footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxugRBWN8gw)

Watch for yourself. And note how many times you see Earl facing what was arguably the greatest defense in the history of the NFL, the Steel Curtain.

infantrycak
05-28-2012, 07:36 PM
So, to totally take this thread into a tangent, I just don't buy it....

Ironically it is kind of what Brown was talking about. You need something which makes you special. It isn't always the same thing. Earl was a bull and that is real exciting to see. I think pure bull and pure dancer RB's get more kind of highlight credit. I guess at the ends of the spectrum you could put Earl and Barry.

As to Brown, he had a size, power, speed and agility which were unknown in his time.

Texecutioner
05-28-2012, 11:56 PM
I sort of find it funny that so many people here are trying to analyze Brown's thoughts and his intentions here.

If you've watched anything from Jim Brown in the last 10 years, he's been nothing but a bitter old cat that usually bashes other athletes or coaches in some way. He also goes after other famous celebs for his own reasons. I rarely ever hear the guy say anything positive about anyone, and I can't think of a single time where I watched him in an interview where he appeared to be in a good mood. He is one of those guys that the media has chosen to glorify in a bright light as opposed to how he really has been in my opinion. His recent comments aren't really surprising to me.

powda
05-29-2012, 12:11 AM
For an analogy currently in the league I would say he thinks TR will be a Matt Forte -

TR to Forte...I hadnt compared those 2 specifically...that's spot on.

infantrycak
05-29-2012, 05:15 AM
I sort of find it funny that so many people here are trying to analyze Brown's thoughts and his intentions here.

If you've watched anything from Jim Brown in the last 10 years, he's been nothing but a bitter old cat that usually bashes other athletes or coaches in some way. He also goes after other famous celebs for his own reasons. I rarely ever hear the guy say anything positive about anyone, and I can't think of a single time where I watched him in an interview where he appeared to be in a good mood. He is one of those guys that the media has chosen to glorify in a bright light as opposed to how he really has been in my opinion. His recent comments aren't really surprising to me.

I haven't seen many interviews so I will defer on overall demeanor. I did see an interview he did with Barry Sanders in which he was very nice. Man talk about different body types - Sitting next to each other Brown made Sanders look like a leprechaun. .

Dutchrudder
05-29-2012, 10:31 AM
I sort of find it funny that so many people here are trying to analyze Brown's thoughts and his intentions here.

If you've watched anything from Jim Brown in the last 10 years, he's been nothing but a bitter old cat that usually bashes other athletes or coaches in some way. He also goes after other famous celebs for his own reasons. I rarely ever hear the guy say anything positive about anyone, and I can't think of a single time where I watched him in an interview where he appeared to be in a good mood. He is one of those guys that the media has chosen to glorify in a bright light as opposed to how he really has been in my opinion. His recent comments aren't really surprising to me.

Yep. Jim Brown has been pretty horrible at evaluating Browns draft picks as well, so if he thinks Richardson isn't that great, then it bodes well for TR.

Here's a whole Browns fan thread on this subject if anyone wants to read:
http://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/935407/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD


On a related note, Richardson was a beast in college, and when I watch him run I see elite vision and patience, much like Arian Foster. He just seems to find the hole every time and he can zip through it quickly, or punch through a defender if needed. I LOVE watching him lower his shoulder and maul over defenders. He's not speedy, but he has great footwork and he uses it to his advantage to avoid/break tackles. I think he is the real deal and will be very successful in the Browns system. The cherry on top with TR is that he is a high character guy and a family man.

TR highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abk3HgvwEeI

Rey
05-29-2012, 11:34 AM
I'm not a big TR fan. I don't see the fluidity I like in RB's and I don't think he has great vision or a great feel for the position.

I think he is an amazing physical specimen and I think he is pretty good at those attributes I listed above (except fluidity--I don't think he's very fluid at all).

I think he will be a good RB similar to how I feel about Emmit (I think Emmit had a bit better feel for the game and was more fluid, but I think Richardson is stronger and faster). Get him in a good situation, with good teammates around him and he will be awesome.

But I don't view him as some kind of super special RB. I think he's a 1B tier guy in the NFL, but because of certain traits he has I think he can put up monster career yardage...

HoustonFrog
05-29-2012, 11:38 AM
I really disagree with the notion that everything out of Jim Brown's mouth is gold. Brown once called Maurice Clarett "fantastically talented" (http://www.cleveland.com/clarett/index.ssf?/clarett/more/clarett081203.html). Really? I would take Trent Richardson over Maurice Clarett in every aspect, other than felony convictions.

I believe Brown was the greatest runner the NFL has ever seen. But that doesn't make him the final word on who is a good RB. Joe Montana was the greatest QB I've ever seen. But, he sucked at analyzing the sport he dominated. Sucked hard. Performing and analyzing are two different skills.

Agree. Look at Michael Jordan a talent evaluator

ckhouston
06-02-2012, 06:01 PM
So, to totally take this thread into a tangent, I just don't buy it. When I watch old footage of Jim Brown (he was before my time), I see special, but I don't see SPECIAL. What I remember of Earl from when I was younger, and reinforced by video that is still out there of him, I see SPECIAL. That man did things that I don't think anyone will ever do again. And before anyone brings it up, yes I recognize the longevity argument. Earl was quality over quantity. I have never seen footage of another RB that impresses me as much as Earl's game. He had dancer's feet, defensive back speed, unparalleled balance, and the power of a Mack truck. If longevity is your measuring stick, then fine, I give you that. But no one played RB like Earl.

Jim Brown footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4QQ9fnAgBU)

Earl footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxugRBWN8gw)

Watch for yourself. And note how many times you see Earl facing what was arguably the greatest defense in the history of the NFL, the Steel Curtain.

Agree 100%. Campbell > Brown IMO.

ckhouston
06-02-2012, 06:04 PM
I sort of find it funny that so many people here are trying to analyze Brown's thoughts and his intentions here.

If you've watched anything from Jim Brown in the last 10 years, he's been nothing but a bitter old cat that usually bashes other athletes or coaches in some way. He also goes after other famous celebs for his own reasons. I rarely ever hear the guy say anything positive about anyone, and I can't think of a single time where I watched him in an interview where he appeared to be in a good mood. He is one of those guys that the media has chosen to glorify in a bright light as opposed to how he really has been in my opinion. His recent comments aren't really surprising to me.

NFL Network interview Friday he said TR was basically average and that the Browns basically had no leadership and the owner needed to step up and take the team back. Obvious he is just bitter and has an axe to grind with Holmgren. He later said he would never be second in anything especially not to a "ballerina" wide receiver ... making reference to him coming in #2 and Rice #1 on the all time count-down.

I think this is the video.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d82983ef1/Jim-Brown-addresses-Trent-Richardson-comments


Brown is a douche.

Dutchrudder
06-04-2012, 04:53 PM
I'd bet some money that Jim Brown wanted the Browns to take Justin Blackmon...

Good call Holmgren.

GP
06-04-2012, 11:41 PM
Sometimes a guy has to wonder if Jim Brown is always taking the contrarian viewpoint because he wants to be able to say he knows better. To say, in essence, that whomever the Cleveland Browns select is a bad pick because JIM'S guy is better. And then we'll never know, of course, because he'll always be rooting for the guy the Browns didn't pick. LOL.

The guy needs to stop. Move on. YOU were a great RB, Jim Brown. But that was then and this is now. You're the guy who thought Clarett was a great prospect...so that about sums up your prediction skills on modern-day RBs.

beerlover
06-05-2012, 12:26 AM
I would be curious to know what Jim Brown thinks about Arian Foster. Would "Poetry in Motion" even interest someone who took what was not given opposed to taking what a defense gives?

Playoffs
06-05-2012, 08:57 AM
I would be curious to know what Jim Brown thinks about Arian Foster. Would "Poetry in Motion" even interest someone who took what was not given opposed to taking what a defense gives?I recall Arian chatting up Brown ... radio, I think. Arian showed him mad respect. Brown gave him career advice.

beerlover
06-05-2012, 09:21 AM
I recall Arian chatting up Brown ... radio, I think. Arian showed him mad respect. Brown gave him career advice.

I was hoping somebody had info relevant to Foster from JB who's opinion on RB position does carry some weight (thanks).

Vinny
06-05-2012, 09:29 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y-zj72s1gM (I think you can see Lucky in the yellow seats at the 55 sec mark of the video)

Richardson reminds me a bit of Mike Rozier. Nice back, but not a superstar....but I'm no Jim Brown.

SeŮor Stan
06-05-2012, 09:38 AM
I recall Arian chatting up Brown ... radio, I think. Arian showed him mad respect. Brown gave him career advice.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/09/want_to_hear_arian_foster_get.php

The two best parts of the ten-minute segment:

1. After Brown asked Foster if he and the Texans had come to an agreement on a new contract, Foster indicated that he was going to play this season out under his current deal and see where it goes from here, and Brown gave him this advice:

"Don't neglect the game. Don't neglect the game, because when it's all over and done, the money will be important, but the way you played the game will be what people will remember about you. So don't let anyone keep you out of the game, and always give your best....the politics are very difficult sometimes. Sometimes even your own union doesn't represent you properly. Sometimes these things can be discouraging. But if you play the game hard, and give it all you have at all times, then these things have a way of working out."

2. The interview closed with Foster asking a typical thought-provoking Foster question, wanting to know if Jim Brown were a 25-year-old man in the NFL and he could go back and talk to himself, what he would tell himself. Here's what Brown said:

"I would tell myself that I'm surrounded by a lot of people whose number-one interest is money. And I would tell myself that when I study history I find out that those old guys 'graduate'...and that some of those old guys are now the most important guys in dealing with the future of the young guys. So really I would say to myself, be educated, be aware, understand the history of the game, and then apply myself appropriately.

See, you have a union that has been sued by its own players. You have a union that talks about money with the owners, and then they tell you this "it's you versus the owners," but some owners are always in your corner. Some of the greatest advocates would be the Pittsburgh Steelers with Dan Rooney who works for African-American coaches to get jobs. People don't bring that up...you have to learn to understand and distinguish the good and the bad, not just group situations and following somebody's leadership who may not be leading you in the right direction.

So the bottom line is always educate yourself, always ask the questions, and always understand what's going on around you."

Blake
06-05-2012, 09:40 AM
Trent is a talented dude. Im not going to rip him because someone took him so freaking high, but I dont think he is anything special, and I think RB's in the top 10 are a wasted pick. Especially when they go to a crap org/team like the Browns.

Playoffs
06-05-2012, 10:26 AM
Richardson reminds me a bit of Mike Rozier. Nice back, but not a superstar....but I'm no Jim Brown.Mike Rozier? Mike Rozier!

Repped for pulling out a name I haven't heard in years & years.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

beerlover
06-05-2012, 10:47 PM
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/09/want_to_hear_arian_foster_get.php

rep for this ~ Shortly thereafter, we said goodbye to Brown. We still had one short segment of the show left, to which Foster said to me,"We really have to do another segment? How do we top that?"

To which I said,"Yeah, you only have to do one segment, I still have to do two more hours!"

Miraculously, not only did Foster make it another three minutes, but I made it another two hours. But it didn't change the validity of Foster's questions -- how do we top that?