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View Full Version : Where would you put Cushing among top 10 ILB's as of now.


The Medic01
05-03-2012, 03:44 PM
Where would you put him?
Me it's #2 behind Willis and in front of Lewis by 1.
What about you?

Topher
05-03-2012, 03:58 PM
1. Willis
2.Lewis
3.Cushing

Big Lou
05-03-2012, 04:11 PM
Where would you put him?
Me it's #2 behind Willis and in front of Lewis by 1.
What about you?

Brian Cushing doesn't go where you put him, he goes where he wants.

Call me a homer, but I say #1.

TdotTexas2Step
05-03-2012, 04:54 PM
Brian Cushing doesn't go where you put him, he goes where he wants.

Call me a homer, but I say #1.

So are you calling yourself a homer or do you truly believe he's #1 and acknowledge that your opinion may be the target of homer claims?

I think Willis is the clear cut #1. And Cushing is battling for #2 with tier that includes Beason, Mayo, and Johnson.

Players like Lewis and Urlacher are a shell of their former shelf and have more value with their leadership and familiarity. But I think many teams would take any of the names I listed above over these two if they were to start a team today.

Corrosion
05-03-2012, 06:18 PM
So are you calling yourself a homer or do you truly believe he's #1 and acknowledge that your opinion may be the target of homer claims?

I think Willis is the clear cut #1. And Cushing is battling for #2 with tier that includes Beason, Mayo, and Johnson.

Players like Lewis and Urlacher are a shell of their former shelf and have more value with their leadership and familiarity. But I think many teams would take any of the names I listed above over these two if they were to start a team today.

How many of them are 3 down players .... I'd put Cushing at the very top of the list because he never comes off the field.

Willis might be a better run stopper but Cushing is better in both coverage and getting after the QB.

Cushing had more sacks , more INT's and more tackles than either Lewis or Willis - only Urlacher had more INT's but had 0 sacks or FF.


They are all playmakers , thats for sure , its the nature of the position. Who you place #1 is very subjective.

TdotTexas2Step
05-03-2012, 06:34 PM
How many of them are 3 down players .... I'd put Cushing at the very top of the list because he never comes off the field.

Willis might be a better run stopper but Cushing is better in both coverage and getting after the QB.

Cushing had more sacks , more INT's and more tackles than either Lewis or Willis - only Urlacher had more INT's but had 0 sacks or FF.


They are all playmakers , thats for sure , its the nature of the position. Who you place #1 is very subjective.

Also add durability and health to one of Cushing's awesome traits

Playoffs
05-03-2012, 07:10 PM
ProFootballFocus had Cush rated #2 overall to Navarro Bowman and just ahead of Willis in 2011. #1 Rush ILB, #9 Coverage, #10 Run

From their Signature Statistics -- custom combined/weighted
#3 in Run Stop Percentage
#5 in Pass Rush Productivity
#7 in Tackling Efficiency
#21 in Pass Coverage

Corrosion
05-03-2012, 07:29 PM
ProFootballFocus had Cush rated #2 overall to Navarro Bowman and just ahead of Willis in 2011. #1 Rush ILB, #9 Coverage, #19 Run

From their Signature Statistics -- custom combined/weighted
#3 in Run Stop Percentage
#5 in Pass Rush Productivity
#7 in Tackling Efficiency
#21 in Pass Coverage

Your link doesnt link.

Playoffs
05-03-2012, 07:36 PM
Your link doesnt link.It's an underline -- rankings/signature stats are subscription only.

Corrosion
05-03-2012, 07:52 PM
It's an underline -- rankings/signature stats are subscription only.

Copy and paste for us cheap bastards? :ahhaha:

ChampionTexan
05-03-2012, 09:09 PM
ProFootballFocus had Cush rated #2 overall to Navarro Bowman and just ahead of Willis in 2011. #1 Rush ILB, #9 Coverage, #19 Run

From their Signature Statistics -- custom combined/weighted
#3 in Run Stop Percentage
#5 in Pass Rush Productivity
#7 in Tackling Efficiency
#21 in Pass Coverage

According to the thread you started in the NFL forum, they have both Willis (#20) and Derrick Johnson (#28) ranked ahead of Cushing (#32) in addition to Bowman (#14).

b0ng
05-03-2012, 09:37 PM
Derrick Johnson is a great ILB as well. What about Timmons from the Steelers?

Edit: which would you rather have? 2006 Demeco Ryans or 2011 Cushing?

Playoffs
05-03-2012, 09:44 PM
According to the thread you started in the NFL forum, they have both Willis (#20) and Derrick Johnson (#28) ranked ahead of Cushing (#32) in addition to Bowman (#14).
Yeah, that's their version of the Top 101 players in the league. They don't clarify how they rank the Top 101 or how the parameters for their signature stats. But the general idea comes through. There's a broad range of specific stats they keep.

Johnson & Bowman are significantly ahead of the other top ILBs against the run.

Corrosion
05-03-2012, 09:54 PM
Yeah, that's their version of the Top 101 players in the league. They don't clarify how they rank the Top 101 or how the parameters for their signature stats. But the general idea comes through. There's a broad range of specific stats they keep.

Johnson & Bowman are significantly ahead of the other top ILBs against the run.

Where does Cushing rank in comparison Vs the pass and rushing the QB?

ckhouston
05-03-2012, 10:57 PM
Cushing and Willis are #1 and #1A in my opinion. However, I think Cushing is a beast at either inside or outside, so if I am picking a team today my first LB is Cush. This year I predict huge things from him, as he is going to be the leader and do things his way and not have to be in anyones shadow. Time to shine.

Playoffs
05-03-2012, 11:11 PM
Where does Cushing rank in comparison Vs the pass and rushing the QB?It's all in post #7. I fixed a mis-type in that post.

SW H-TOWN
05-03-2012, 11:21 PM
Right now IMO there are 3 ILB who are just better than the rest.

1. Patrick Willis - I am a Texans fan but I have to give this guy credit. To me he is the best, no 1 & 1a. Patrick Willis is a Monster, period. In 2007 he had 174 tackles and is averaging 138.4 tackles in his 5 year career. That is insane.

2. Brian Cushing - Clear number 2. You could make a case for Bowman but Cushing did not have Patrick Willis playing next to him. Complete LB with a mean streak. His best year was in 2009 when he registered 133 tackles.

3. NaVarro Bowman - Not the biggest, fastest, or strongest LB but he is very instinctual and productive. Always around the ball. 143 tackles in his first year as a starter.

SteveSlaton20
05-04-2012, 12:34 AM
I think Derrick Johnson should be in there as well, top 4 at least.

Vinny
05-04-2012, 12:41 AM
Bowman didn't make the Pro Bowl but was first team All Pro.....proving that dude was seriously under the radar to most folks. Quite the nice 3rd round pick he was.

eriadoc
05-04-2012, 12:52 AM
I like Cushing over Willis. I realize that puts me in the minority, but I'm OK with that. Tackles are a funny stat. To me, Cush makes more game changing plays. His rookie season was definitely more full of game changing plays, like turnovers (and a badass safety), and last year was a return to that form, for the most part.

Vinny
05-04-2012, 12:55 AM
I like Cushing over Willis. I realize that puts me in the minority, but I'm OK with that. Tackles are a funny stat. To me, Cush makes more game changing plays. His rookie season was definitely more full of game changing plays, like turnovers (and a badass safety), and last year was a return to that form, for the most part.Willis gets to plays that Cushing wishes he could get to. I like Cush quite a bit, so this ain't a cut down...just reality.

Wolf6151
05-04-2012, 01:50 AM
My list:

1. Lewis, there's something to be said for high quality longevity.
2a. Willis.
2b. Cushing, a tie for 2nd.

TheMatrix31
05-04-2012, 03:13 AM
Willis is definitely clear-cut #1. I'm not sure where Cush lies. Top 4 or 5, probably.

Maddict5
05-04-2012, 07:16 AM
1. Patrick Willis - I am a Texans fan but I have to give this guy credit. To me he is the best, no 1 & 1a. Patrick Willis is a Monster, period. In 2007 he had 174 tackles and is averaging 138.4 tackles in his 5 year career. That is insane.


id take cushing over willis but dont watch willis every week so i realise im biased and willis is likely to be picked by most...

however your post reminded me of something i read a couple yrs back complaining that willis' tackles stats are the most over-inflated in the nfl because the game announcers at 49ers home games used to give him sole credit for gang tackles etc even if he was one of the last ones in on it because he was such a crowd favourite. i wish i could find it but didnt see anything on google and its a few yrs old like i said

Maddict5
05-04-2012, 08:22 AM
found it.... i remembered it because i started a thread on it at the time. dont know how relevat it is as you seem to have quoted his press box tackles figure

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52378

Middle linebacker Patrick Willis of the San Francisco 49ers was the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year in 2007.

If you trust his statistics, he should have been the NFL's Defensive Player of the Year as well. Maybe even the NFL Defensive Player of the Decade.

Willis was credited with 226 tackles by the 49ers – a staggering 42 more than the league's next most prolific tackler, Ray Lewis of the Baltimore Ravens.

Willis collected 117 more tackles than the starting NFC middle linebacker in the Pro Bowl (Lofa Tatupu, Seattle Seahawks) and 99 more than the AFC starter (Demeco Ryans, Houston Texans). Was Willis that much more active, that much more proficient than any other defensive player in the NFL?

But I don't trust the statistics – not tackle stats, anyway.

Each NFL team employs a stat crew for its home games. That crew's final statistics are deemed official by the league office: yardage for rushing, passing, receiving and various kick returns plus field goal and punting distances, sacks, interceptions, touchdowns ...

But 28 of the 32 NFL teams do not acknowledge the press box tackle stats as official. On the Monday following games, NFL defensive coaching staffs break down the films on their own and award a new set of tackle numbers. Those are listed by each team as its "official" tackle count.

Willis was credited with 174 tackles by NFL stat crews in 2007. Upon further review, the San Francisco coaches gave him credit for 52 more tackles, bumping his "official" count to 226.
San Francisco linebacker Patrick Willis wrapped up Minnesota's Adrian Peterson for one of his NFL-leading 226 tackles last season. But was it a legitimate total?

Playoffs
05-04-2012, 08:32 AM
found it.... i remembered it because i started a thread on it at the time. dont know how relevat it is as you seem to have quoted his press box tackles figure

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52378

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting.

Rey
05-04-2012, 08:40 AM
1) Lewis
2) Cushing

Those are my top two. Who falls in line after that, I don't know. When I watch Willis play, I don't see the same type of fire I do from Cush and Ray. Willis is super athletic and can make some plays that these guys can't make, but I think both Cushing and Lewis are better in the middle of the field while Willis has more range.

JMO.

BattleRedRock
05-05-2012, 10:58 AM
Brian Cushing doesn't go where you put him, he goes where he wants.

Call me a homer, but I say #1.

the football gods have changed the name of ILB to BC = brian cushing there for the question should be who is the best brian cushing?!

When Brian Cushing runs, he causes earthquakes across the world. when cushing tackles the opposing player, out of respect, the refs call it a turnover on downs and gives us the ball. When cushing calls out plays, all the animals in the wilderness come to reliant to hear his voice. He is the most interesting brian cushing(ILB) alive.

Say Watt
05-05-2012, 01:23 PM
Willis gets to plays that Cushing wishes he could get to. I like Cush quite a bit, so this ain't a cut down...just reality.

I think just as we are a bit biased, I'd say the ole 49er fan is a bit biased as well. I mean no doubt, Willis is no worse than #3 on the list and personally I'd give him the top spot, but by no means is it a landslide victory as you suggest. Cushing is definitely better in coverage and seems to be a more well rounded ILB. Willis is simply the best tackler in the NFL. He flat out doesn't miss and when he hits guys, he smashes them.

I do question just how good Bowman is. I mean for him to step in like he did when Willis went down just seems a bit suspicious. Perhaps the ILB numbers are a result of the scheme and as is suggested above, maybe the numbers are inflated. If he does it again next year, I'll be a believer but as of now, I'm skeptical.

1. Willis
2a. Cushing
2b. Lewis

infantrycak
05-05-2012, 05:57 PM
I understand the Willis v. Cushing debate. I can't believe anyone would rank the current Lewis over either of them.

mariowillshine15
05-05-2012, 06:49 PM
I understand the Willis v. Cushing debate. I can't believe anyone would rank the current Lewis over either of them.

Totally agree.

In his prime Lewis yes, present Lewis no way.

SW H-TOWN
05-07-2012, 01:52 AM
I think just as we are a bit biased, I'd say the ole 49er fan is a bit biased as well. I mean no doubt, Willis is no worse than #3 on the list and personally I'd give him the top spot, but by no means is it a landslide victory as you suggest. Cushing is definitely better in coverage and seems to be a more well rounded ILB. Willis is simply the best tackler in the NFL. He flat out doesn't miss and when he hits guys, he smashes them.

I do question just how good Bowman is. I mean for him to step in like he did when Willis went down just seems a bit suspicious. Perhaps the ILB numbers are a result of the scheme and as is suggested above, maybe the numbers are inflated. If he does it again next year, I'll be a believer but as of now, I'm skeptical.

1. Willis
2a. Cushing
2b. Lewis

That is a good post. I'm going to get Old Miss Texan to give his take on this one. He probably watches Willis play more than just about anyone else on this board. I love Cushing, guy is a beast. He is an amazing football player but IMO Patrick Willis is head and shoulders above any other ILB as of right now. I don't even think it's close. Also, as of last season Lewis is nowhere close to Willis or Cushing. I agree with you about Bowman. There is a good possibility that his numbers were so good last year because he was playing next to Willis. It still bothers me that we picked Okoye over Willis over Revis. IMO they are 2 of the 4 best defensive players in the league.

Say Watt
05-07-2012, 11:54 AM
I understand the Willis v. Cushing debate. I can't believe anyone would rank the current Lewis over either of them.

I wouldn't rank him over either of them, but you are selling Ray Lewis short.

He still had 139 tackles last year with 2 sacks, 2 INTs, and 1 TD. This year in only 12 games, he had 95 tackles, 2 sacks, 7 pass deflections, and 1 INT.

On the other hand, Cushing had 114 tackles in 16 games, 4 sacks, 5 pass deflections, and 2 INTs. In 13 games, Willis only had 2 more tackles than Lewis with 97, 2 sacks (same as Lewis), 12 pass deflections (insane number!), and 1 INT.

So no, Lewis is not better than Cushing or Willis, but he is still one of the best MLBs in the game.

silvrhand
05-07-2012, 12:44 PM
Hmm think it's too early to call him in the top 3, he's only had one really year at ILB, and last year he wasn't really stellar IMHO.

1. Willes

2-5: Fletcher, Urlacher, Lewis, Bowman, lofton

Cushing is coming along if he has another great year, I say he cracks the top 5.