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texasam82
04-30-2012, 10:45 PM
In a nutshell... QB.

Please keep in mind that I am talking about the long term success of the Texans. Schaub is no spring chicken and at least moderately injury prone. I think we have the talent on both sides of the ball to be a dominant team for years to come, but we need to address the future of our QB position. I am honestly a fan of TJ and I think he can develop into a pretty solid starter, but we all know how important it is to have a top 10 QB in today's NFL if you want to be a superbowl contender.

What do you guys think? How much longer can we count on Schaub? Is Yates the answer long term? I am worried this team could turn into Ravens 2.0. Great D, with a solid run game, but no true leader at QB. Making the playoffs is great, but I want to push for the ring.

SteveSlaton20
04-30-2012, 10:59 PM
Even though they were outstanding last year, my biggest concern is, can the defense repeat last year? I've seen defense played well one year and play terrible the next. I love Wade Phillip, but he still has to prove that he can do it again. If they can play as well as they did last year, then I really don't have any concern except that Foster or Tate suffering a bad injury or something. Our QBs play will be fine as long as defense does work.

texasam82
04-30-2012, 11:04 PM
Even though they were outstanding last year, my biggest concern is, can the defense repeat last year? I've seen defense played well one year and play terrible the next. I love Wade Phillip, but he still has to prove that he can do it again. If they can play as well as they did last year, then I really don't have any concern except that Foster or Tate suffering a bad injury or something. Our QBs play will be fine as long as defense does work.

I was viewing this discussion as a "going forward" type of thing. 3 years from now how will our QB play be? Because our D should be even better then than it is now.

DocBar
04-30-2012, 11:08 PM
I think this year will show what direction the team needs to go at QB. If Yates has a solid TC and preseason, it could very well ease Kubiak's mind on the subject and Yates will be the heir apparant to Schaub. A fantastic showing could mean that Schaub is gone after next season, instead of signing him to a big contract.

Allstar
04-30-2012, 11:12 PM
I was viewing this discussion as a "going forward" type of thing. 3 years from now how will our QB play be? Because our D should be even better then than it is now.

tbh, I'm a little nervous that Wade might be tempted to leave for a HC position in the coming years. Watching the Carolina and Indy games last year were brutal :wadepalm:

texasam82
04-30-2012, 11:15 PM
tbh, I'm a little nervous that Wade might be tempted to leave for a HC position in the coming years. Watching the Carolina and Indy games last year were brutal :wadepalm:

I was terrified of this exact situation last year! I hope Wade has some loyalty to the organization and realized that he is a much better DC than HC. I also hope we can keep paying him HC money to keep him here.

badboy
04-30-2012, 11:22 PM
Glad you started thread as I wanted to yesterday on 2013 needs but would only get clobbered again for rushing things. Agree on Schaub but an eventual WR1 needs to be drafted. I don't see a QB option other than Yates so either he is real deal or we will be paying out the nose to hopefully re-sign Matt. If you thought debate on Mario was hot just wait. I can see Reed & Mercilus going forward in 2013 with Barwin going elsewhere but if that happens we will probably select another OLB in first or second rounds.

Even if all our 2012 picks deliver we still need WR/OLB/ILB/TE and maybe a corner. I was hoping we could draft BPA but don't see that happening unless our "need" is BPA.

I also agree Wade could be gone after next season. I was pleasantly surprised he remained.

TdotTexas2Step
04-30-2012, 11:28 PM
I was terrified of this exact situation last year! I hope Wade has some loyalty to the organization and realized that he is a much better DC than HC. I also hope we can keep paying him HC money to keep him here.

The elite of the elite all have one thing in common, and it's their pride. I could be wrong but I just get the vibe from Wade that he wants another shot at it. He doesn't want to just be remembered as an incredible defensive coordinator.

People will point to Dick LeBeau as an example of someone willing to accept what he is, but LeBeau knew that he was significantly better a coordinator than he was a head coach.

Wade on the other hand has been a pretty solid coach regardless of how media may spin it. He finished with a .607 record in Dallas, .604 in Buffalo and .500 in what was really his first head coach stint in Denver.

The Pencil Neck
04-30-2012, 11:29 PM
It's not unusual for QBs to be productive all the way into their 40's. Schaub's age doesn't worry me in the least. He has gotten injured a few times and that does worry me. I expect Schaub to miss a few games early in the season but come back and play lights out at the end.

It will be interesting to watch TJ's development. He's got all the tools to be great in this system.

My biggest concern is Wade Phillips. He wants to be a head coach. I don't know how long we'll be able to keep him around. And I don't really trust this staff to find a successor for him.

SteveSlaton20
04-30-2012, 11:34 PM
I was viewing this discussion as a "going forward" type of thing. 3 years from now how will our QB play be? Because our D should be even better then than it is now.

oh ok. if wade is still here in 3 years from now, then it's def QB lol.

I'm not going to lie, I wanted us to get RGIII/New QB in the draft after Schaub went down, but obviously he played too well and went #2 overall. I think Schaub has two good years left in him IMO, and I'd like to get a new QB next year so he can learn the system from Schaub, Yates and Kubiak.

If Yates can prove he can play as well as Schaub, then I wouldn't mind sticking with him, but I'd be down for a 1st round franchise QB.

texasam82
05-01-2012, 12:10 AM
Glad you started thread as I wanted to yesterday on 2013 needs but would only get clobbered again for rushing things. Agree on Schaub but an eventual WR1 needs to be drafted. I don't see a QB option other than Yates so either he is real deal or we will be paying out the nose to hopefully re-sign Matt. If you thought debate on Mario was hot just wait. I can see Reed & Mercilus going forward in 2013 with Barwin going elsewhere but if that happens we will probably select another OLB in first or second rounds.

Even if all our 2012 picks deliver we still need WR/OLB/ILB/TE and maybe a corner. I was hoping we could draft BPA but don't see that happening unless our "need" is BPA.

I also agree Wade could be gone after next season. I was pleasantly surprised he remained.


Glad to be of service my man. I'm with you though... it's NEVER too early to plan for the future. Whether in regards to the Texans, my 401k, real estate investments, or forcing myself to hit the gym. The time is now and it always will be.

msbbc833
05-01-2012, 12:35 AM
How much do ya'll expect Schaub to command? He already makes 8mil a year I believe.

SteveSlaton20
05-01-2012, 02:28 AM
How much do ya'll expect Schaub to command? He already makes 8mil a year I believe.

the average for starting quarterbacks is about $10M so that's not bad.

TimeKiller
05-01-2012, 10:56 AM
I think immediately, the Texans are in decent shape with Schaub, Yates and Delhomme or Keenum. But after this year......

Well, let me put this way. Until you have a Manning, a Tom Brady or an Aaron Rodgers tossing the rock for you the need to improve at QB is a high priority EVERY year. I like Schaubby, I'm a pretty big fan of Yates but I don't believe either one has league-dominating potential.

Porky
05-01-2012, 11:19 AM
I'm not too concerned in the medium term (2-4 yrs) with Schaub's age, but I am worried about his durability. This is a very key yr for Matt and the Texans. If he suffers another major injury do you pull the plug? His contract is up. Do we want to re-up with a guy that can't stay healthy? If that is the case, we are in immediate panic mode. OTOH, if he doesn't miss a snap (or close to it) and he plays well, I'm thinking you have to try to resign the guy. He isn't great, but he is good in this system and knows it backwards and forwards. If we do resign him, and he's again durable, I don't really worry about finding a starter to mold behind him in the draft until 2015 or maybe even 2016.

With Yates, I don't think he is long term starter material, or at least not good starter material. I thought they protected him to the max last year. He did prove that the mental side isn't too big for him, and I think he can improve, but I didn't see "it" with Yates. I think in general the fanbase over-valued his contribution because he was the QB that led us into the playoffs and won a game - but I think it was mostly despite Yates not because of it. I do like his future as a solid back-up though.

The rest is up in the air and a total crapshoot. We can't tell with Keenum until we see how he performs as a pro, but I don't see future starter with him either - but will reserve final judgement on that until we see him more. I do think he was a wise pickup as a UDFA though, and someone that can be developed.

DocBar
05-01-2012, 11:26 AM
I'm not too concerned in the medium term (2-4 yrs) with Schaub's age, but I am worried about his durability. This is a very key yr for Matt and the Texans. If he suffers another major injury do you pull the plug? His contract is up. Do we want to re-up with a guy that can't stay healthy? If that is the case, we are in immediate panic mode. OTOH, if he doesn't miss a snap (or close to it) and he plays well, I'm thinking you have to try to resign the guy. He isn't great, but he is good in this system and knows it backwards and forwards. If we do resign him, and he's again durable, I don't really worry about finding a starter to mold behind him in the draft until 2015 or maybe even 2016.

With Yates, I don't think he is long term starter material, or at least not good starter material. I thought they protected him to the max last year. He did prove that the mental side isn't too big for him, and I think he can improve, but I didn't see "it" with Yates. I think in general the fanbase over-valued his contribution because he was the QB that led us into the playoffs and won a game - but I think it was mostly despite Yates not because of it. I do like his future as a solid back-up though.

The rest is up in the air and a total crapshoot. We can't tell with Keenum until we see how he performs as a pro, but I don't see future starter with him either - but will reserve final judgement on that until we see him more. I do think he was a wise pickup as a UDFA though, and someone that can be developed.If Schaub stays healthy and plays well, I think we'll re-sign him and give Yates a couple more years of grooming or start looking for Schaubs successor.
I'm going to wait til the preseason is over before I rate Yates. If he makes a nice jump this year, I can see long-term success with him. I don't think the Texans max protecting a 5th round rookie, forced to start due to injury, is any kind of indictment of Yates. That just seems like the smart thing to do.

The1ApplePie
05-01-2012, 11:26 AM
The combination of a new RT and a QB that can't take a hit concerns me.

Its a QB-WR driven sport now. RBs and defenses are good, but they both seem well on their way to becoming luxuries rather than requirements for Super Bowls

The Pencil Neck
05-01-2012, 11:42 AM
I'm with DocBar on the Yates thing. Like Porky said, the mental side of the game didn't seem too big for him and to me, that's HUGE because that's where most guys flame out. Almost everyone drafted at QB has the physical skills necessary to play QB in the NFL, it's the mental side where they fail.

Last year, Yates didn't get a real offseason to learn the offense. He got some extra snaps at the beginning of training camp because of Leinart being out but after Leinart came back, he was pretty much shut down. But when he came in and ran the 2 minute offense against the Jags, the game didn't look to fast for him. And then he went out and didn't lose two games in a row against playoff caliber teams.

For a 3rd string, 5th round rookie, what he accomplished was a bit amazing and shows potential for growth. Did they modify the gameplan and the playbook to protect him? Yeah. Does that mean that's all he'll ever be? No. What we saw with him that makes me excited was the ability to look long and put the ball where it needed to be and we saw him show escapability in the pocket and more pocket awareness than we've ever seen in a Texans QB. He didn't have full command of the offense and he didn't make all the right reads and adjustments.

We should see big strides forward with him in preseason. If we don't, then we need to start getting nervous.

Thorn
05-01-2012, 11:47 AM
My immediate concern is the QB situation, in that I just don't believe Schaub is coming back on time.

Other than that, I'm concerned about Wade staying, the WR position, and defensive backs.

badboy
05-01-2012, 02:07 PM
It's not unusual for QBs to be productive all the way into their 40's. Schaub's age doesn't worry me in the least. He has gotten injured a few times and that does worry me. I expect Schaub to miss a few games early in the season but come back and play lights out at the end.

It will be interesting to watch TJ's development. He's got all the tools to be great in this system.

My biggest concern is Wade Phillips. He wants to be a head coach. I don't know how long we'll be able to keep him around. And I don't really trust this staff to find a successor for him.What are your thoughts on going forward with Matt after his contract ends pre2013 season? I think you are saying TJ will start that year?

badboy
05-01-2012, 02:31 PM
SOmething I don't think some of you are considering at least not mentioning: "Hi I am Matt Scahub and I just had a good 2012 & I want $15m+ first year and 2 years guaranteed on a five year deal."

QB are a premium. Tannehill going #8? Old guys & dufuses recycled every year. It would take a Wade Phillips type epiphany for Schaub to remain with Houston if he has a good season. I expect more of a Mario Williams type epiphany "You are going to pay me how much? Quick, let me Twitter something negative about Houston as I get on the plane."

I think we all need to watch college QBs this year and hope someone slips.

The Pencil Neck
05-01-2012, 02:31 PM
What are your thoughts on going forward with Matt after his contract ends pre2013 season? I think you are saying TJ will start that year?

There are so many factors feeding into this that it's hard to say at this point.

1) If Matt makes it back and plays lights out, you gotta keep him UNLESS you think TJ has developed into a better QB (which I doubt will happen.)

2) If Matt makes it back and gets injured or doesn't play lights out, you gotta let him walk.

3) If Matt doesn't make it back before the start of the season and TJ develops and starts the 2012 season lights out, it's going to be hard to keep Matt.

4) If Matt doesn't make it back before the start of the season and TJ doesn't develop and looks like a scrub and Matt comes back looking good, it's going to be hard to get rid of Matt.

And then there are all the shades of gray. And what I expect to have happen is a shade of gray of #3.

I expect Matt to miss the first 3-4 games of the season. I expect TJ to come in and look only OK. Not a scrub, but not leading the league in passing, either. I expect Matt to win his job back and play well, but not as good as he played prior to the injury. I expect Matt to have issues with planting and getting enough zip on the ball but I think his knowledge of the system to make him our best option at QB even though TJ has better physical abilities. In short, I expect a QB controversy to start mid-season. Ultimately, I'm afraid our best option is going to be to let him walk at the end of the season but it's going to be a hard decision to make.

I also expect to be 100% wrong but I don't know what I'm messing up. :)

badboy
05-01-2012, 02:33 PM
There are so many factors feeding into this that it's hard to say at this point.

1) If Matt makes it back and plays lights out, you gotta keep him UNLESS you think TJ has developed into a better QB (which I doubt will happen.)

2) If Matt makes it back and gets injured or doesn't play lights out, you gotta let him walk.

3) If Matt doesn't make it back before the start of the season and TJ develops and starts the 2012 season lights out, it's going to be hard to keep Matt.

4) If Matt doesn't make it back before the start of the season and TJ doesn't develop and looks like a scrub and Matt comes back looking good, it's going to be hard to get rid of Matt.

And then there are all the shades of gray. And what I expect to have happen is a shade of gray of #3.

I expect Matt to miss the first 3-4 games of the season. I expect TJ to come in and look only OK. Not a scrub, but not leading the league in passing, either. I expect Matt to win his job back and play well, but not as good as he played prior to the injury. I expect Matt to have issues with planting and getting enough zip on the ball but I think his knowledge of the system to make him our best option at QB even though TJ has better physical abilities. In short, I expect a QB controversy to start mid-season. Ultimately, I'm afraid our best option is going to be to let him walk at the end of the season but it's going to be a hard decision to make.

I also expect to be 100% wrong but I don't know what I'm messing up. :)Good post. Way to explain your thoughts. Enjoyed the read.

Lady.Gaga.3000
05-01-2012, 03:11 PM
If Johnathan Joseph goes down with an injury, we will have:

Kareem Jackson
Brandon Harris
Brice McCain

Behind Schaub going down, I think Joseph is the biggest player we can least afford to lose.

Blake
05-01-2012, 03:17 PM
In a nutshell... QB.

Please keep in mind that I am talking about the long term success of the Texans. Schaub is no spring chicken and at least moderately injury prone. I think we have the talent on both sides of the ball to be a dominant team for years to come, but we need to address the future of our QB position. I am honestly a fan of TJ and I think he can develop into a pretty solid starter, but we all know how important it is to have a top 10 QB in today's NFL if you want to be a superbowl contender.

What do you guys think? How much longer can we count on Schaub? Is Yates the answer long term? I am worried this team could turn into Ravens 2.0. Great D, with a solid run game, but no true leader at QB. Making the playoffs is great, but I want to push for the ring.

Schaub is what? 30? 31 when he gets his next contract? I think he is good for another 4-5 years which will be enough to get our money's worth of the next contract. Also, this is a QB driven league. So if you dont think Schaub is worth the money you better have a better alternative lined up. And right now we dont.

The1ApplePie
05-02-2012, 12:14 PM
Schaub is what? 30? 31 when he gets his next contract? I think he is good for another 4-5 years which will be enough to get our money's worth of the next contract. Also, this is a QB driven league. So if you dont think Schaub is worth the money you better have a better alternative lined up. And right now we dont.

He will ask for franchise QB money. I like Matt, but he is not a franchise QB.

His age can be a factor. If he stayed healthy it wouldn't be, but his body couldn't take a beating when he was 26, let alone when he gets into his 30s.

I could see the Texans taking a run at Hoyer or Mallett on the Patriots if Schaub doesn't come back next season

badboy
05-02-2012, 07:53 PM
If Johnathan Joseph goes down with an injury, we will have:

Kareem Jackson
Brandon Harris
Brice McCain

Behind Schaub going down, I think Joseph is the biggest player we can least afford to lose.Gonna disagree as Wade can scheme for that. It would hurt but not as much as losing Rashab Butler RT, If Duane goes down, Butler could move to LT. We have only Brooks to replace Butler and that could be disastrous first season. We would prob have to move a big TE permanently to Brooks right hip.

Allstar
05-02-2012, 08:10 PM
[/B]Gonna disagree as Wade can scheme for that. It would hurt but not as much as losing Rashab Butler RT, If Duane goes down, Butler could move to LT. We have only Brooks to replace Butler and that could be disastrous first season. We would prob have to move a big TE permanently to Brooks right hip.

We'd probably end up having to call a guy like Salaam :gun:

The Pencil Neck
05-02-2012, 08:50 PM
[/B]Gonna disagree as Wade can scheme for that. It would hurt but not as much as losing Rashab Butler RT, If Duane goes down, Butler could move to LT. We have only Brooks to replace Butler and that could be disastrous first season. We would prob have to move a big TE permanently to Brooks right hip.

Derek Newton backs up Butler; he'll take over if Butler goes down. Brooks will be one of the starting guards.

infantrycak
05-02-2012, 09:08 PM
I truly do not understand the TJ love. He was a caretaker QB for a team which could accommodate a caretaker at QB. Yeah, yeah, Schaub isn't a franchise QB but there is a decent chance the team is playing in the Super Bowl with him at the helm last season.

The Pencil Neck
05-02-2012, 09:36 PM
I truly do not understand the TJ love. He was a caretaker QB for a team which could accommodate a caretaker at QB. Yeah, yeah, Schaub isn't a franchise QB but there is a decent chance the team is playing in the Super Bowl with him at the helm last season.

A lot of rookies come in and look really bad. Most of them can't even caretake a team. TJ showed flashes of being able to be something very good, as good as Schaub and maybe better... eventually. Right now, Schaub is infinitely better than TJ and, yes, I think if Schaub had been healthy, we would have:

1. steamrolled the rest of the season
2. had home field advantage through the playoffs
3. won the Super Bowl.

But we didn't.

With a full training camp beneath his belt, I think TJ will be much better than he was last year. I think he has the ability and the potential to be an elite QB in this league... but only in 3-4 years. Not now.

So I want TJ to get a taste of being the starter. I want him to get that experience and I want him to grow and mature because of it. And then I want him back on the bench watching Matt lead us to the SB to see how it's done. I think TJ can learn a lot from that.

And then, in the future, we will have to face the question of letting Matt go because TJ is as good as he is or whether to trade TJ away for something because he's good and got a reputation around the league and becomes the hot backup with potential to be a starter... like Schaub was.

infantrycak
05-02-2012, 09:54 PM
I am not slagging TJ and certainly hope he gets better. It is just the enthusiasm seems a little overkill. There were plays last year people look at and say wow TJ was so athletic, Schaub couldn't have made that play but the more realistic view is the Schaub would have moved up better in the pocket or the ball already would have left Schaub's hand and he wouldn't have had to run out of the pocket. I certainly hope TJ develops but what I saw last year was not a starter by choice.

phantom17
05-02-2012, 10:31 PM
In a nutshell... QB.

Please keep in mind that I am talking about the long term success of the Texans. Schaub is no spring chicken and at least moderately injury prone. I think we have the talent on both sides of the ball to be a dominant team for years to come, but we need to address the future of our QB position. I am honestly a fan of TJ and I think he can develop into a pretty solid starter, but we all know how important it is to have a top 10 QB in today's NFL if you want to be a superbowl contender.

What do you guys think? How much longer can we count on Schaub? Is Yates the answer long term? I am worried this team could turn into Ravens 2.0. Great D, with a solid run game, but no true leader at QB. Making the playoffs is great, but I want to push for the ring.

I agree! I'm also worried if Schaub will ever recover to play at a high level after the surgery! Frankly, I dont trust Smitiak about any players condition after an injury, just too many "aw shuck moments about the kids"! I'm kinda worried about TJ ever becoming a starter for the Texans! He just doesn't have that "zip" on the ball to get between the defenders quickly! Also, I think a replacement for Joel Dreesen was not addressed. Did they really find a replacement for the Caveman, & I hope Wade P. will stay a long time as DC. However, I really like the draft picks, & Case K as a UDFA. I hope he finds a way on the team as a back up or eventual starter!

b0ng
05-03-2012, 12:22 AM
Biggest concern is WR. After Andre and Kevin its a lot of hope and prayer.

ckhouston
05-03-2012, 09:28 AM
As I have stated before I do not think Matt Schaub will ever take another regular season snap as a Texan. Yates will have to be very impressive this year to solidify himself as the future QB for the team. If he doesnt have a great year, we need to start looking to draft our franchise guy or maybe trade for someone.

Cousins will know the system after next year. If RG3 performs well, Cousins will be trade bait most likely.

Rey
05-03-2012, 11:21 AM
I am not slagging TJ and certainly hope he gets better. It is just the enthusiasm seems a little overkill. There were plays last year people look at and say wow TJ was so athletic, Schaub couldn't have made that play but the more realistic view is the Schaub would have moved up better in the pocket or the ball already would have left Schaub's hand and he wouldn't have had to run out of the pocket.

I don't think anyone is saying Yates is as good as Schaub. I think what people have seen with Yates is that he has the potential to be a good starting QB...Whether that is a level below, about the same or better than Schaub is something that is debatable....

But no one can say Yates is already as good as Schaub.

Thorn
05-03-2012, 11:23 AM
With a full training camp beneath his belt, I think TJ will be much better than he was last year. I think he has the ability and the potential to be an elite QB in this league... but only in 3-4 years. Not now.


3 to 4 years? If it takes him that long, we might as well go with Case Keenum. Schaub won't be on the team in 3 to 4 years anyway. The biggest question mark on the Texans right now is the QB position and Schaub's health. Without knowing the answers to any of that, it's very hard to predict anything from the Texans. I would say though, that even if Schaub never comes back TJ is still good enough to win the division with and make another playoff run. The SB is another question though.

Rey
05-03-2012, 11:26 AM
I expect Yates to be much better this season. Yes, I said much.

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2012, 11:33 AM
3 to 4 years? If it takes him that long, we might as well go with Case Keenum. Schaub won't be on the team in 3 to 4 years anyway. The biggest question mark on the Texans right now is the QB position and Schaub's health. Without knowing the answers to any of that, it's very hard to predict anything from the Texans. I would say though, that even if Schaub never comes back TJ is still good enough to win the division with and make another playoff run. The SB is another question though.

I think it takes any QB that long to mature. It took Matt a few years to mature and it will take Case a few years to mature as well. Even if we go out and draft a highly touted QB in the draft, it's going to take him a few years before he's elite.

Most QBs don't even make it to that status. Many flame out.

With a good enough team, you don't need an elite QB to win SBs.

Thorn
05-03-2012, 11:35 AM
With a good enough team, you don't need an elite QB to win SBs.

History has certainly proven that true.

Blake
05-03-2012, 11:45 AM
History has certainly proven that true.

the game has changed. You need a solid QB to win super bowls.

Rey
05-03-2012, 11:52 AM
the game has changed. You need a solid QB to win super bowls.

That's what I Was going to say, but I thought about it and history doesn't change until someone actually changes it. Trends are set until someone actually sets them.

Basically, the top QB's are the ones winning superbowls right now because it's such a pass heavy league but if a team like the Texans won the superbowl it'd likely be largely attributed to our defense and running game...

I just think you need a good mix of talent. You need to be elite in a few places and very good most everywhere else.

I think the easiest way to win a superbowl though is by having an elite QB though...

Thorn
05-03-2012, 11:57 AM
In no way do I consider Ely Manning elite even though he's won two SBs recently. He's very good, but he isn't elite. And his brother, who is one of the best QBs of all time only has one ring. You can win SBs without an elite QB, you just better bring your A game in other areas.

ckhouston
05-03-2012, 12:01 PM
the game has changed. You need a solid QB to win super bowls.

The Texans QB needs to be able to do two things very well to win a SB.

1. Turn around and hand ball to Foster.
2. Turn around and hand ball to Tate.

Blake
05-03-2012, 12:06 PM
In no way do I consider Ely Manning elite even though he's won two SBs recently. He's very good, but he isn't elite. And his brother, who is one of the best QBs of all time only has one ring. You can win SBs without an elite QB, you just better bring your A game in other areas.

Who is using the word elite?

GP
05-03-2012, 12:22 PM
If Kubiak doesn't make a commitment to starting a QB and sticking with him for a decent amount of time (which is why I advocate PUP'ing Schaub) then we'll be screwed. An offense cannot be dragged into even a mild QB controversy.

PUP'ing Schaub allows TJ to be the undisputed leader for a huge portion of the season. It stops ANY controversy from brewing early in the season, since Schaub will be prohibited from playing until mid-season. And if TJ is not playing well...the fans will be ready for a change back to Schaub and it gives Kubiak the "out" he needs, as well.

Allowing Schaub to be in full gear on the sideline to start the season, or even week 3 or 4, is inviting an implosion on that offense. Because if things get sketchy for TJ, the hook will be readied and then everyone starts doubting TJ (even TJ doubting himself) and it's just bad psychology all the way around.

Normalcy is the bread and butter of Kubiak's coaching style. I would think he wants Schaub as an emergency option if TJ fails and we need a miracle to finish up the last half of the season. Kubiak likes his QBs to be in full control and not looking over their shoulder. Having Schaub on the sideline is no recipe for normalcy at the QB position.

I think people are generally freaked out about the Texans starting a season with a QB whose last name is not Schaub. We have Foster, we have TEs who know how to bail out their QB. We have a great Kubiak/Dennison combo going on. Things will be fine.

infantrycak
05-03-2012, 12:28 PM
Allowing Schaub to be in full gear on the sideline to start the season, or even week 3 or 4, is inviting an implosion on that offense.

If Schaub is suited up then he is starting.

SheTexan
05-03-2012, 12:30 PM
The Texans QB needs to be able to do two things very well to win a SB.

1. Turn around and hand ball to Foster.
2. Turn around and hand ball to Tate.

Wrong!! Our Oline is F'd up, thanks to bonehead off season moves! No way Foster or Tate will be that good all by themselves! We better get our new WRs up and running before Sept, or we won't see the playoffs! JMO!

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2012, 12:33 PM
Wrong!! Our Oline is F'd up, thanks to bonehead off season moves! No way Foster or Tate will be that good all by themselves! We better get our new WRs up and running before Sept, or we won't see the playoffs! JMO!

I think Butler will do just fine in Winston's place. My biggest concern prior to the draft was losing Brisel. But finding out that Caldwell had been playing through injured ankles last year and after drafting Brooks and Jones, I think we'll be fine at the Guard spot.

So I don't think our oline is f'd up.

I think we'll be fine and possibly even better than we were.

ThaShark316
05-03-2012, 12:33 PM
Wrong!! Our Oline is F'd up, thanks to bonehead off season moves! No way Foster or Tate will be that good all by themselves! We better get our new WRs up and running before Sept, or we won't see the playoffs! JMO!


13-3. Miss me with all this negative talk. Boneheaded how? Because we let Ryans go? Dude had to go. Briesel wanted far too much paper. Winston wasn't about to take no paycuts. Y'all got to lay off that dope, man. Damn man, the salary cap is at play here. We're trying to be the Steelers, Giants and Patriots. To HELL with loyalty. This is a GROWN FOLKS BUSINESS. That's the only reason folks were mad. Because we didn't keep mainstays. Let it go.

My BIGGEST concern though? I'll say starting 5-0 and having Texans Talk make threads about how Kubiak is holding us back because we won that 5th game 21-17.

SheTexan
05-03-2012, 12:44 PM
I think Butler will do just fine in Winston's place. My biggest concern prior to the draft was losing Brisel. But finding out that Caldwell had been playing through injured ankles last year and after drafting Brooks and Jones, I think we'll be fine at the Guard spot.

So I don't think our oline is f'd up.

I think we'll be fine and possibly even better than we were.

I'm truly trying to think positive, and I hope you are correct. BUT, Winston and Brisel were part of what made our Oline gel so well last year. AF and Tate depended on that, and I just hope Butler and Caldwell will fill the gap well. Im just concerned about TWO guys coming off injuries to replace two starting spots on the Oline. Time will tell, and I'll TRY to have as much faith as you guys!

GP
05-03-2012, 12:45 PM
If Schaub is suited up then he is starting.

I had a post, but deleted it. Instead, this poster (below) summed it up better than I could.

So I will co-sign on his post:

Biggest concern? Schaub really being healthy to start out the season.

For better or worse in many different ways this is a make or break season for Schaub. It's a contract year. Of the 5 years so far only two have been spent without any significant time injured. He's put up great numbers when healthy, but you still have to wonder about long term durability issues and if he'll be able to stay healthy for long stretches.

I think the real question that needs to be answered during the OTAs, camp and everything is going to be seeing IF Yates can be that guy moving forward.

Goldensilence
05-03-2012, 12:48 PM
Biggest concern? Schaub really being healthy to start out the season.

For better or worse in many different ways this is a make or break season for Schaub. It's a contract year. Of the 5 years so far only two have been spent without any significant time injured. He's put up great numbers when healthy, but you still have to wonder about long term durability issues and if he'll be able to stay healthy for long stretches.

I think the real question that needs to be answered during the OTAs, camp and everything is going to be seeing IF Yates can be that guy moving forward.

The1ApplePie
05-03-2012, 12:50 PM
the game has changed. You need a solid QB to win super bowls.

Pretty much. Outside of Tampa Bay in 2004, every Super Bowl has been won by elite QBs.

Brady
Eli (he's elite folks. Most clutch QB in the NFL)
Rodgers
Peyton
Big Ben
Brees

The Texans QB needs to be able to do two things very well to win a SB.

1. Turn around and hand ball to Foster.
2. Turn around and hand ball to Tate.

Its a QB-WR-TE game now. How many elite backs have won a Super Bowl in the past decade?

The days of Trent Dilfer winning Super Bowls are over. Defense is becoming less of a factor in the modern NFL too.

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2012, 01:00 PM
Pretty much. Outside of Tampa Bay in 2004, every Super Bowl has been won by elite QBs.

Brady
Eli (he's elite folks. Most clutch QB in the NFL)
Rodgers
Peyton
Big Ben
Brees



Its a QB-WR-TE game now. How many elite backs have won a Super Bowl in the past decade?

The days of Trent Dilfer winning Super Bowls are over. Defense is becoming less of a factor in the modern NFL too.

It's all a matter of opinion. If your definition of elite includes winning Super Bowls, then it's a circular definition. Just because most of the SBs of the past decade have been won by elite QBs doesn't mean you have to have an elite QB to win it.

I don't consider Flacco or Alex Smith elite QBs. One of them could have won a SB last year. We could easily have had a Ravens-Niners SB.

And you don't get to "outside of Tampa Bay", that's a cheap out. If you're going to write up the list of the last 10 SB winning QBs, you've got to include Brad Johnson. And if you're going to do the last 12, you've got to include Dilfer.

GP
05-03-2012, 01:46 PM
It's all a matter of opinion. If your definition of elite includes winning Super Bowls, then it's a circular definition. Just because most of the SBs of the past decade have been won by elite QBs doesn't mean you have to have an elite QB to win it.

I don't consider Flacco or Alex Smith elite QBs. One of them could have won a SB last year. We could easily have had a Ravens-Niners SB.

And you don't get to "outside of Tampa Bay", that's a cheap out. If you're going to write up the list of the last 10 SB winning QBs, you've got to include Brad Johnson. And if you're going to do the last 12, you've got to include Dilfer.

I agree.

Furthermore: Having an elite QB is not a lock on (a) getting to the SB nor (b) winning it.

Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees are considered to be elite QBs but yet only one of those advanced to the SB this year. The other SB QB was Eli Manning whom I don't see as an elite QB but rather a very smart, consistently GOOD QB who knows how to act like a point guard who distributes the ball to the right player at the right time.

I think Super Bowl teams have a few common threads: (1) Stout defense, or a VERY lethal offense like the Colts had when they won vs. Bears, (2) Locker room toughness...Coughlin's teams exhibit this very well, as did Cowher's teams in Pittsburgh, and (3) Savvy coaching and Grade A assistant coaches that team up nicely with the players--Jimmy Johnson, Bill Belichick, Bill Cowher, etc. If you have a great QB, it enhances the three items listed above.

Guys like Gruden swerved into a deal in Tampa Bay where they had a stout defense but needed locker room toughness and a savvy head coach. Gruden brought that to Tampa Bay. And let's face it, they were facing the Raiders who really didn't have those three items...at least not to the degree Tampa did. That they managed to win a SB with Brad Johnson, IMO, proves that you do not have to get a QB who is all-world all the time. You need other factors first and foremost, THEN you need competent QB play to add to it. Brad Johnson was not spectacular, but he was very Eli Manning'ish in the sense that he didn't make bone-headed plays and he always find the right guy at the right time. Tampa and NY defenses took care of the rest.

Guys like Dungy were unable to bring locker room toughness and savvy coaching to the table in Tampa...but he had a foster parent named Peyton Manning who DID have it in Indy. Look, I still to this day maintain that the Dungy Colts era was 90% due to Manning. Period. Manning and Tom Moore ran that team. Dungy handled the paperwork.

Once you get into the idea of how SB teams MUST have an elite QB...you start realizing that those teams with those elite QBs actually have other components that make them SB champs...then the elite QB is the bonus factor that enhances it and makes it unstoppable.

Frankly, if having an elite QB was THAT important, then Manning should have 5 rings and Brees should have 4 rings, etc. Overall, the elite QB argument just doesn't measure up. There is more to a SB winning team than the QB.

Fico
05-03-2012, 01:51 PM
In no way do I consider Ely Manning elite even though he's won two SBs recently. He's very good, but he isn't elite. And his brother, who is one of the best QBs of all time only has one ring. You can win SBs without an elite QB, you just better bring your A game in other areas.

Eli might not be considered Elite due to a couple up and down regular seasons. However, when it has been playoff time the dude has been better than just about everyone else in the league.

You need to win a game on the final drive? Give me Eli right now.

You need outstanding QB play to win the Superbowl, evidence to the contrary are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Fico
05-03-2012, 01:55 PM
Frankly, if having an elite QB was THAT important, then Manning should have 5 rings and Brees should have 4 rings, etc. Overall, the elite QB argument just doesn't measure up. There is more to a SB winning team than the QB.

Manning might have 5 rings if he wasn't having to play Brady/Vinetari each year in the AFC champ game.

You say this in your post, "then the elite QB is the bonus factor that enhances it and makes it unstoppable." This is true. Which is why the vast majority of teams that when the Superbowl have elite QB play.... because it makes their team unstoppable. Sure other components of the team are good/elite but QB play, now more-so than ever, is what separates really good teams from Superbowl teams.

GP
05-03-2012, 02:00 PM
Manning might have 5 rings if he wasn't having to play Brady/Vinetari each year in the AFC champ game.

You say this in your post, "then the elite QB is the bonus factor that enhances it and makes it unstoppable." This is true. Which is why the vast majority of teams that when the Superbowl have elite QB play.... because it makes their team unstoppable. Sure other components of the team are good/elite but QB play, now more-so than ever, is what separates really good teams from Superbowl teams.

Manning might have only ONE ring had Tyree not made the circus catch against his helmet in the first SB title they won vs. Pats. In fact, he didn't do anything all that special in the past SB either. Just saying that the best QB does not always win.

And to the idea of elite QBs being the enhancing agent to the SB team: It still doesn't compute that JUST because you have an elite QB you're going to win. Brady couldn't overcome a sub-elite Eli and that Giants defense this past February. Same can be said of their first run-in a few years back in the SB. Even Rex Grossman found a way to beat out 15 other NFC QBs for the chance to play in the SB vs. the Colts.

Why? Defense. And then the Bears defense could not contain the ultra-lethal Colts offense in the SB. There are times when elite QBs can overcome a stout defense, but I think the Colts remain the exception to that rule. Most all other times...the elite QB is playing for a team who already has a stout defense, locker room toughness, and savvy coaching. Yeah, the QB has to be perform and do his part...but it's made easier by virtue of what those other three factors naturally bring to the table.

No, having an elite QB "can" be the thing that puts you over the top...but it's not the x-factor it's made out to be. IMO.

speedfreek
05-03-2012, 02:06 PM
FIFY

every Super Bowl has been won by elite defenses.


There have been quite a few awesome QB's to never win it all, until they had an elite defense or elite running game.

TJ

Fico
05-03-2012, 06:05 PM
2011 Eli over Brady
2010 Rodgers over Rapeburger
2009 Brees over Manning
2008 Rapeburger over Warner
2007 Eli over Brady
2006 Manning over exception to rule Grossman
2005 Exception to rule Rapeburger over Exception Hasselbeck
2004 Brady over McNabb
2003 Brady over exception Delhomme
2002 Exception B. Johnson over Gannon
2001 Brady over Warner
2000 Double exception Superbowl
1999 Warner over McNair

Of the last 26 Superbowl teams, 19 received "elite" to very high level (argue semantics here) QB play either throughout the whole season or through the playoffs.

In the last 5 years, 10 of the last 10 teams to make the Superbowl had great QB play. With the way the NFL is today you are only going to see this trend continue.

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2012, 06:21 PM
2011 Eli over Brady
2010 Rodgers over Rapeburger
2009 Brees over Manning
2008 Rapeburger over Warner
2007 Eli over Brady
2006 Manning over exception to rule Grossman
2005 Exception to rule Rapeburger over Exception Hasselbeck
2004 Brady over McNabb
2003 Brady over exception Delhomme
2002 Exception B. Johnson over Gannon
2001 Brady over Warner
2000 Double exception Superbowl
1999 Warner over McNair

Of the last 26 Superbowl teams, 19 received "elite" to very high level (argue semantics here) QB play either throughout the whole season or through the playoffs.

In the last 5 years, 10 of the last 10 teams to make the Superbowl had great QB play. With the way the NFL is today you are only going to see this trend continue.

It all depends on how you want to spin it and how you define elite. Of that list, I only consider Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Warner, and Brees elite. I don't consider Roethlisburger, Eli, McNair, Gannon, or McNabb elite QBs. They were very good but they weren't elite.

By that count, it's 12/26 or 46%.

This is one of those agree to disagree situations because it all comes down to how you define elite. Now, if you want to say that you need to get good production out of your QB to win the SB, sure... although Roethlisberger and EManning were streaky as hell and Roethlisberger's 1st SB was won despite his performance.

TexanBacker93
05-03-2012, 06:28 PM
2011 Eli over Brady
2010 Rodgers over Rapeburger
2009 Brees over Manning
2008 Rapeburger over Warner
2007 Eli over Brady
2006 Manning over exception to rule Grossman
2005 Exception to rule Rapeburger over Exception Hasselbeck
2004 Brady over McNabb
2003 Brady over exception Delhomme
2002 Exception B. Johnson over Gannon
2001 Brady over Warner
2000 Double exception Superbowl
1999 Warner over McNair

Of the last 26 Superbowl teams, 19 received "elite" to very high level (argue semantics here) QB play either throughout the whole season or through the playoffs.

In the last 5 years, 10 of the last 10 teams to make the Superbowl had great QB play. With the way the NFL is today you are only going to see this trend continue.

I think you just need a QB to play clutch in the right situations. Schaub has had clutch moments and if the Texans were in the SB against any other team I'd feel confident that he could rise to the challenge. It's not like he's DC and his career game would be only 3 sacks and no 2 yard passes. Schaub has carried the team on his back before. He isn't that guy every week, and doesn't have to be. Eli can be inconsistent, but he's extremely clutch in the playoffs. We don't know what Matt can do in that situation. Not yet at least.

Texecutioner
05-03-2012, 06:37 PM
In a nutshell... QB.

Please keep in mind that I am talking about the long term success of the Texans. Schaub is no spring chicken and at least moderately injury prone. I think we have the talent on both sides of the ball to be a dominant team for years to come, but we need to address the future of our QB position. I am honestly a fan of TJ and I think he can develop into a pretty solid starter, but we all know how important it is to have a top 10 QB in today's NFL if you want to be a superbowl contender.

What do you guys think? How much longer can we count on Schaub? Is Yates the answer long term? I am worried this team could turn into Ravens 2.0. Great D, with a solid run game, but no true leader at QB. Making the playoffs is great, but I want to push for the ring.

If a healthy Schaub is out there, than we have a great chance to do just about anything.

If Yates is out there, than this team has no chance.

It's really that simple.

Fico
05-03-2012, 08:13 PM
It all depends on how you want to spin it and how you define elite. Of that list, I only consider Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Warner, and Brees elite. I don't consider Roethlisburger, Eli, McNair, Gannon, or McNabb elite QBs. They were very good but they weren't elite.

By that count, it's 12/26 or 46%.

This is one of those agree to disagree situations because it all comes down to how you define elite. Now, if you want to say that you need to get good production out of your QB to win the SB, sure... although Roethlisberger and EManning were streaky as hell and Roethlisberger's 1st SB was won despite his performance.

You are judging based on their career. I was concerned with their play that particular season/playoff.

Those guys that you don't consider elite played as good or better during their Superbowl/title runs than the guys you consider elite.

Everyone can argue semantics, and what qualifies as elite, but the fact remains you need very good to excellent QB play to make/win the Superbowl much more often than not.

badboy
05-03-2012, 10:21 PM
Derek Newton backs up Butler; he'll take over if Butler goes down. Brooks will be one of the starting guards.

Fig Newton? WHAHAHA I think we selected Mondek to replace Cookie Man.

ckhouston
05-03-2012, 11:38 PM
Wrong!! Our Oline is F'd up, thanks to bonehead off season moves! No way Foster or Tate will be that good all by themselves! We better get our new WRs up and running before Sept, or we won't see the playoffs! JMO!

The O-line is fine. We have Brown and we have Myers. The others were expendable. You are now on a three exclamation point limit. :handshake:

ckhouston
05-03-2012, 11:41 PM
If a healthy Schaub is out there, than we have a great chance to do just about anything.

If Yates is out there, than this team has no chance.

It's really that simple.

Waiting for the punch line.

The Pencil Neck
05-04-2012, 01:26 AM
You are judging based on their career. I was concerned with their play that particular season/playoff.

Those guys that you don't consider elite played as good or better during their Superbowl/title runs than the guys you consider elite.

Everyone can argue semantics, and what qualifies as elite, but the fact remains you need very good to excellent QB play to make/win the Superbowl much more often than not.

Like I said, it all depends on how you want to define the term 'elite'.

If you want to say that any QB who gets on a hot streak is elite while in that streak, OK. I don't think that's how most people define that term but... OK.

For me, 'elite' is a career thing. It means able to put up amazing passing totals year after year and a guy who finds a way to elevate the team's play. Most elite guys are going to be winners, although that's not as important a distinction for me as it is for some. Most elite guys are going to have some times during their career when they don't perform up to that level.

The Pencil Neck
05-04-2012, 01:36 AM
Fig Newton? WHAHAHA I think we selected Mondek to replace Cookie Man.

I don't think so. Kubiak was totally high on Newton all last season. Newton even got a little PT, iirc.

I think Newton's development, along with Rashad Butler, is the reason they felt so comfortable just letting Winston go.

Goldensilence
05-04-2012, 03:06 AM
If a healthy Schaub is out there, than we have a great chance to do just about anything.

If Yates is out there, than this team has no chance.

It's really that simple.

I disagree. I think Yates did surprisingly well considering several things :

A- First and foremost a rookie
B- Strike shortened off-season
C- He got 3rd string reps during a strike shortened season
D- Really thrown into the fire

I'm not saying he's pro-bowl bound next year, but it's likely he's going to see first team snaps most of the OTAs and likely throughout training camp at least.

Until I see otherwise from Matt Schaub, I have Yates penciled in as week one starter. It concerns me even more that even IF he is on schedule to recover on time....what is going to be the short and long term effects off a lisfrac break to a player who already has limited mobility? If it hampers him even more, he becomes a sitting duck and I just don't have the confidence that he can withstand the punishment for 16 weeks.

The good news is we have quite a bit of time before the season starts and that means a LOT of time to evaluate Schaub during the rehab process. If he starts to struggle, even a little, I think you've got to really alter the way you approach the offense moving forward.

Best case scenario even, we've got to be realistic about what we have at WR as of today on the roster and who we have at TE.

Wr : An elite WR and a WR who should be a slot guy as veterans....then a lot of youth.

TE: aside from OD and Graham, who has caught one pass, we have nothing. Maybe Casey moved?

ObsiWan
05-04-2012, 03:15 AM
If a healthy Schaub is out there, than we have a great chance to do just about anything.

If Yates is out there, than this team has no chance.

It's really that simple.

Agreed.

Rey
05-04-2012, 07:46 AM
If Yates hasn't progressed since his rookie year then I agree. But since I think he'll be much better heading into the season I disagree.

I think Yates is going to surprise some people.

ObsiWan
05-04-2012, 08:14 AM
If Yates hasn't progressed since his rookie year then I agree. But since I think he'll be much better heading into the season I disagree.

I think Yates is going to surprise some people.

My hesitancy/doubtfulness comes from the lack of improvement in his ability to go thru his progressions from his initial Jacksonville appearance up to and thru the Baltimore game. There was one bright ray of sunshine when he led the game-winning drive against the Bungles to win. He also threw for 300 yds in that game. After that he never showed that spark again. And we went on to close out the season losing three straight - although I won't attribute the last loss (to Tenn.) to his performance. But even throwing that game out, he got outperformed by Cam Newton (IN Reliant!) and Dan Freakin' Orlovsky in successive weeks.

Surprise some people?? No, I think Yates is going to disappoint some people. I hope I'm wrong and he shows these leaps of improvement some of you are predicting.

Actually, I hope it doesn't come down to Yates' performance.

ObsiWan
05-04-2012, 08:27 AM
If Yates hasn't progressed since his rookie year then I agree. But since I think he'll be much better heading into the season I disagree.

I think Yates is going to surprise some people.

My hesitancy/doubtfulness comes from the lack of improvement in his ability to go thru his progressions from his initial Jacksonville appearance up to and thru the Baltimore game. There was one bright ray of sunshine when he led the game-winning drive against the Bungles to win. He also threw for 300 yds in that game. After that he never showed that spark again. And we went on to close out the season losing three straight - although I won't attribute the last loss (to Tenn.) to his performance. But even throwing that game out, he got outperformed by Cam Newton (IN Reliant!) and Dan Freakin' Orlovsky in successive weeks. In both those games Foster had over 100 yds rushing (over 150 in the Colts game) so he had help.

Surprise some people?? Maybe. I hope I'm wrong and he shows these leaps of improvement some of you are predicting.

Actually, I hope it doesn't come down to Yates' performance.

beerlover
05-04-2012, 08:58 AM
Matt Schaub's durability. He is ahead of schedule with his foot so that should no longer be a primary concern, just his core strength in general. He is not gifted athletically, thus exposing him to vulnerable positions. Awkward moments that's what concerns me the most.

Then he's going to have a revamped OL to protect him? So this is my second concern. They need to lock up Duane Brown to a long term extension.

speedfreek
05-04-2012, 09:11 AM
That's my biggest complaint about schaub. He's so anthropometrically "awkward". He looks "clumsy" when he moves
around to avoid the rush.

Also, to me, he looks as if he's lost confidence in his ability
to take a hit as well. I recall numerous times where he's
sensed a hand on him and immediately dropped to the ground.

Yates is willing to try to break a grasp/tackle and take off.

TJ



Matt Schaub's durability. He is ahead of schedule with his foot so that should no longer be a primary concern, just his core strength in general. He is not gifted athletically, thus exposing him to vulnerable positions. Awkward moments that's what concerns me the most.

Then he's going to have a revamped OL to protect him? So this is my second concern. They need to lock up Duane Brown to a long term extension.

HOU-TEX
05-04-2012, 10:05 AM
If a healthy Schaub is out there, than we have a great chance to do just about anything.

If Yates is out there, than this team has no chance.

It's really that simple.

Surprisingly, I somewhat agree.

The only disagreement is having no chance with Yates. There's no doubt Schaub gives us a better chance at winning. Yates sorta proved last year he could muster up enough points to win a few games. So with that said, he gives us a chance to win. Albeit a lesser chance than Schaub

drs23
05-04-2012, 10:28 AM
I don't think so. Kubiak was totally high on Newton all last season. Newton even got a little PT, iirc.

I think Newton's development, along with Rashad Butler, is the reason they felt so comfortable just letting Winston go.

And after the draft as well Gary was very complimentary of his play and looking Newton looking at a bright future, or something to that effect. Didn't sound like coach speak (to me) but I guess it could have been.

As to the last line, that's the way I see it.

gary
05-04-2012, 10:40 AM
At the end of the day I have concerns outside of sports in my life if things go well than great.

Rey
05-04-2012, 10:46 AM
My hesitancy/doubtfulness comes from the lack of improvement in his ability to go thru his progressions from his initial Jacksonville appearance up to and thru the Baltimore game.

I disagree. TJ was better at the end of the year. Go back and look at the Colts game. He performed well. He only had 3 incompletions...He pretty much did as well as he could under the circumstances. Except for yards, he had his best game of the season and really his yards were limited due to the fact that he also had his lowest attempts of the season.

Against Tennessee he only threw the ball 4 times, but he connected on all 4....???

Against ATL in the play-offs (our first play off win ever; remember that?) he played pretty damn well too.

There was one bright ray of sunshine when he led the game-winning drive against the Bungles to win. He also threw for 300 yds in that game. After that he never showed that spark again. And we went on to close out the season losing three straight - although I won't attribute the last loss (to Tenn.) to his performance. But even throwing that game out, he got outperformed by Cam Newton (IN Reliant!) and Dan Freakin' Orlovsky in successive weeks.

Cam Newton was the #1 overall pick and was a rookie just like Yates. Newton probably had the best season by a rookie QB ever. Is it really a surprise that he out performed Yates? Were you expecting something different?

And if Orvlosky outperformed him (which he really didn't) maybe you should direct your attention to the defense rather than Yates???

Yes in Baltimore he played terrible. That said, a lot of QB's play bad against that defense. Yates played comparably to Andy Dalton against that same defense, and Dalton had the benefit of being prepared as the starter since day 1.

We can agree to disagree on Yates, that's fine. But I think it's just plain wrong to say the guy didn't perform well (relatively speaking).

The Pencil Neck
05-04-2012, 11:44 AM
If a healthy Schaub is out there, than we have a great chance to do just about anything.

If Yates is out there, than this team has no chance.

It's really that simple.

I don't totally disagree with this.

I just don't expect Schaub to start the season. I expect Yates to be our Week 1 starter but for us to have a SB season, we need to get Schaub back -- healthy and ready to play -- a few weeks into the season and then he's got to remain healthy to the end.

I think we can have Yates start the season and still win most of the games.

gary
05-04-2012, 12:04 PM
I think in the next few years a replacement for AJ will be drafted. There is still time for that IMHO.

Norg
05-05-2012, 01:49 AM
of course its #8 who concerns me heck most of the 32 teams there starting QB is what concerns them

other concerns

-the new right side of our Oline

-Andre johnson and his health

- the new rookie kicker and heck even special teams we have never had great SPecial teams just middle of the pack remember when ST brought down San deigo that one year im afraid that might happen to us

SteveSlaton20
05-05-2012, 02:15 AM
I'm not concern about Yates at all if our defense performs. Those last couple of games, were when the defense didn't have Wade Phillips calling the plays and they played terrible. Yates was only a rookie, with only one good receiver in Owen Daniels, while Andre was out, and he didn't have any offseason. He wasn't even on the game day roster until we played the Jaguars in week 12. The good things about him is that he's very athletic, which is a good advantage on bootlegs and play actions, and he has a strong arm. Oh, and is good at getting away from the pressure, which Schaub can't really do. As long as Foster and Tate do their thing, and the OL is playing as well as last year, he's going to be fine. Taking all the first team reps is just going to help him become a better quarterback and will help with the timing a lot.

ObsiWan
05-05-2012, 09:13 PM
I disagree. TJ was better at the end of the year. Go back and look at the Colts game. He performed well. He only had 3 incompletions...He pretty much did as well as he could under the circumstances. Except for yards, he had his best game of the season and really his yards were limited due to the fact that he also had his lowest attempts of the season.

Against Tennessee he only threw the ball 4 times, but he connected on all 4....???

Against ATL in the play-offs (our first play off win ever; remember that?) he played pretty damn well too.



Cam Newton was the #1 overall pick and was a rookie just like Yates. Newton probably had the best season by a rookie QB ever. Is it really a surprise that he out performed Yates? Were you expecting something different?

And if Orvlosky outperformed him (which he really didn't) maybe you should direct your attention to the defense rather than Yates???

Yes in Baltimore he played terrible. That said, a lot of QB's play bad against that defense. Yates played comparably to Andy Dalton against that same defense, and Dalton had the benefit of being prepared as the starter since day 1.

We can agree to disagree on Yates, that's fine. But I think it's just plain wrong to say the guy didn't perform well (relatively speaking).

I guess we'll agree to disagree then.

It just worries me that our offense only generated two 20+ point performances with Yates under center AND with the running game getting 100-yd games. And before you point to the Cincy playoff game, seven of the 31 pts in the Cincy playoff game belong to the defense.

I hope Schaub is back and fully functional. And I hope the improvement in Yates some are predicting comes to pass. We may need both before the season is out.

badboy
05-05-2012, 11:41 PM
Matt Schaub's durability. He is ahead of schedule with his foot so that should no longer be a primary concern, just his core strength in general. He is not gifted athletically, thus exposing him to vulnerable positions. Awkward moments that's what concerns me the most.

Then he's going to have a revamped OL to protect him? So this is my second concern. They need to lock up Duane Brown to a long term extension.

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