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beerlover
04-30-2012, 10:45 AM
Texans traded selection #58 to Tampa Bay for #68 DeVier Posey, WR (only 10 picks down) & #126 Jared Crick, DE.

Could have stayed pat & taken Ruben Randle but then could have taken Sanu instead of Brooks in 3rd as well. So obviously they had targeted Posey & felt comfortable he would be there in the 3rd while addressing another need with added pick. Having Crick last that long just blows it out of the park for me. He had a few more injury issues than I knew about but based off tape from years past, he has the potential to be a bookend for JJ Watt in next couple years.

So seems like a plus move to me, just wanted to hear some of your thoughts on subject :thumbup

badboy
04-30-2012, 10:51 AM
I'd have preferred they drafted Fleener #26 and Vinny Curry #58. Still could have filled need with remaining picks. Two starters + a decent rotational OLB in 3rd. Still could have gotten 2-3 of Crick, Keshawn Martin and Ben Jones in 4th.

GP
04-30-2012, 10:53 AM
Texans traded selection #58 to Tampa Bay for #68 DeVier Posey, WR (only 10 picks down) & #126 Jared Crick, DE.

Could have stayed pat & taken Ruben Randle but then could have taken Sanu instead of Brooks in 3rd as well. So obviously they had targeted Posey & felt comfortable he would be there in the 3rd while addressing another need with added pick. Having Crick last that long just blows it out of the park for me. He had a few more injury issues than I knew about but based off tape from years past, he has the potential to be a bookend for JJ Watt in next couple years.

So seems like a plus move to me, just wanted to hear some of your thoughts on subject :thumbup

The silver lining is that we got Crick.

I don't know what WR we get out of Posey. Too many conflicting reports and a 10 game absence last year makes me nervous.

Outside of this ordeal, I was very happy with the rest of the picks.

Now it's time for Posey to put actions to his words. He needs to show why the Texans took a chance on him.

Marcus
04-30-2012, 10:53 AM
Texans traded selection #58 to Tampa Bay for #68 DeVier Posey, WR (only 10 picks down) & #126 Jared Crick, DE.

Could have stayed pat & taken Ruben Randle but then could have taken Sanu instead of Brooks in 3rd as well. So obviously they had targeted Posey & felt comfortable he would be there in the 3rd while addressing another need with added pick. Having Crick last that long just blows it out of the park for me. He had a few more injury issues than I knew about but based off tape from years past, he has the potential to be a bookend for JJ Watt in next couple years.

So seems like a plus move to me, just wanted to hear some of your thoughts on subject :thumbup

What are you trying to do? Get GP all riled up again?;)

As for me, I also thought it was good move, since they didn't have Randle targeted, as apprarently the teams didn't him rated as high as high as the pundits.

welsh texan
04-30-2012, 10:56 AM
On getting an exciting prospect with a pick gained from a trade back, yep thats brilliant, the type of thing that builds championship teams over time (if it works out). We also needed to address depth at DE, not only for the depth this season, but because everyone can see Antonio Smith's contract becoming a problem in the next year or two, no matter how good he is, you'll struggle to justify a 3-4 DE over a franchise LT, franchise #1 ILB, QB etc etc, so it'd be really useful if we find a year down the line we've got starter potential in Crick.

On trading back and taking a WR we'd clearly targeted, thats good with me too, for all the great work the guys down in the draft section do, they don't have an office full of scouts working on bringing them info about prospects all year, they don't have access to the intricacies of the playbook, the thoughts of where the coach wants to take the playbook in the future etc, so I'll trust the FO on this one until I see the guy play.

Marcus
04-30-2012, 10:57 AM
I'd have preferred they drafted Fleener #26 and Vinny Curry #58. Still could have filled need with remaining picks. Two starters + a decent rotational OLB in 3rd. Still could have gotten 2-3 of Crick, Keshawn Martin and Ben Jones in 4th.

You would taken Fleener over Mercilus? Seriously?

SW H-TOWN
04-30-2012, 11:15 AM
I'd have preferred they drafted Fleener #26 and Vinny Curry #58. Still could have filled need with remaining picks. Two starters + a decent rotational OLB in 3rd. Still could have gotten 2-3 of Crick, Keshawn Martin and Ben Jones in 4th.

What I would have done differently were the WRs. I would feel more comfortable with a combination of Hilton/Givens & Childs. Just have to wait and see, hope I'm wrong.

GP
04-30-2012, 11:19 AM
You would taken Fleener over Mercilus? Seriously?

Would have been awkward to have Luck's best buddy on OUR team facing his pal Luck twice a year.

Now they can be booty buddies and go get ice cream and watch movies together in Indy.

Colts have no running game, no defense, new coach, new GM, and I think they struggle for awhile until they get those things firmed up. Having a No. 1 drafted QB and his booty buddy Fleener is not going to make them competitive with us in the near future. I'm thinking 3 years IF they get a run game.

PhilpW
04-30-2012, 11:24 AM
When the "experts" have a prospect going in the 2-3 rounds, and they're selected in the 6th, it's a great pick. When a 5-6 prospect goes in the 3rd, the team reached. No one knows how Posey is going to play, but I like the WR position selections around the depth picks on both lines.

ckhouston
04-30-2012, 11:27 AM
You would taken Fleener over Mercilus? Seriously?

Hopefully it was an attempt at humor.

beerlover
04-30-2012, 11:27 AM
I would prefer to keep focused on the business of working the draft board which for the second year in a row Rick Smith has done an excellent job of doing, IMO. Some of us draft pundits or whatever some wish to label those of us who are passionate about the draft, your right don't have the resources. Heck I don't even cover the Big 10 with exception of a couple teams. One of my draft buddies rmartin65 posted this thread which focused on Texan draft pick frequency per College: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85653
2012 Draft
Round 1- Big 10
Round 3- Big 10
Round 3- MAC
Round 4- SEC
Round 4- Big 10
Round 4- Big 10
Round 5- Big 12
Round 6- Big 10

So it's not really about missing on talent its more a question of coverage, which is incomplete to say the least. I have no problem with that, got to work, missed the first two nights of draft in fact because duty called, its all good. All I can cover are those I watch & break down film personally. Love what I see from Whitney, clear BPA, small sample size, very fluid & explosive. I'm also willing to give Posey benifit of doubt despite his actions off field & limited production on the field. But he does have plus speed, ability to separate (better than Randle or Sanu) & good hands. Reminds me of a bigger Mario Manningham.

Back to the ability to trust your board & make positive moves under the gun. This draft should establish Rick Smith track record as one of the better GM's in the NFL. Having Wade working with Gary is a big plus. Scouts are doing a very good job in film rooms, College games, combine, pro-days & back ground checks. Anyone else see something different? positive/negative let it out :uchicken:

PhilpW
04-30-2012, 11:33 AM
I would prefer to keep focused on the business of working the draft board which for the second year in a row Rick Smith has done an excellent job of doing, IMO. Some of us draft pundits or whatever some wish to label those of us who are passionate about the draft, your right don't have the resources. Heck I don't even cover the Big 10 with exception of a couple teams. One of my draft buddies rmartin65 posted this thread which focused on Texan draft pick frequency per College: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85653
2012 Draft
Round 1- Big 10
Round 3- Big 10
Round 3- MAC
Round 4- SEC
Round 4- Big 10
Round 4- Big 10
Round 5- Big 12
Round 6- Big 10

So it's not really about missing on talent its more a question of coverage, which is incomplete to say the least. I have no problem with that, got to work, missed the first two nights of draft in fact because duty called, its all good. All I can cover are those I watch & break down film personally. Love what I see from Whitney, clear BPA, small sample size, very fluid & explosive. I'm also willing to give Posey benifit of doubt despite his actions off field & limited production on the field. But he does have plus speed, ability to separate (better than Randle or Sanu) & good hands. Reminds me of a bigger Mario Manningham.

Back to the ability to trust your board & make positive moves under the gun. This draft should establish Rick Smith track record as one of the better GM's in the NFL. Having Wade working with Gary is a big plus. Scouts are doing a very good job in film rooms, College games, combine, pro-days & back ground checks. Anyone else see something different? positive/negative let it out :uchicken:

I was referring to Walterfootball.com's take on our picks. I certainly meant no disrepect toward you or the work you guys do prior to the draft. Y'all do an awesome job.

G27RR
04-30-2012, 11:41 AM
I was impressed with their maneuvering and their timing of who they took and when this year. Hopefully Posey works out, if not, and Crick still does, they didn't lose much. If they both work out, great move. If only Posey works out, still a plus because they had a chance on another player out of the deal.

I think they have improved over the years, for sure.

76Texan
04-30-2012, 11:48 AM
Excellent move!

Right now, I'm not sure whether Randle or Posey will end up having a better career; I want to say Posey.

eriadoc
04-30-2012, 11:51 AM
My only disappointment in the draft was the handling of the WR spot. They basically decided they didn't want anything to do with taking a player that had the potential of becoming a #1 WR in the future. Posey may very well end up being a much better version of Walter, but he's a #2 WR at best, IMO. There were other guys they could have targeted that have the ceiling potential to develop into a #1 WR. They traded down instead.

I think Crick is a steal, so that part of the trade down worked, but I'm not sold on Posey AT ALL. Even if he works out, I don't see him ever being #1 WR material. We need a WR that can hold down the fort if AJ gets hurt. No one is going to be able to fill the shoes of AJ, unless they draft in the top 10 or something, but as an example, the Colts drafted Reggie Wayne #30 overall in 2001 when Harrison was still one of the best WRs in the game. Wayne's first year in the league didn't amount to much of anything (27 catches) and he didn't break 1000 yards until his 4th season. But everyone knew he could hold down the fort if Harrison got injured.

beerlover
04-30-2012, 12:18 PM
I was referring to Walterfootball.com's take on our picks. I certainly meant no disrepect toward you or the work you guys do prior to the draft. Y'all do an awesome job.

appreciate that :)

It's an intriguing marriage between College & Professional levels culminating in the draft. Wade Phillips has given the organization a boost in confidence & better defensive draft board/projections so draft day trades can happen in real time that can make a positive impact. I hope we can all get behind this trade, in good time :logo:

Playoffs
04-30-2012, 01:02 PM
Vinny Curry...........DE Eagles
Kelechi Osemele.... OG Ravens
LaMichael James.... RB 49ers
Casey Hayward..... DB Packers
Rueben Randle...... WR Giants
Dwayne Allen........ TE Colts
Trumaine Johnson.. DB Rams
Josh Robinson....... DB Vikings
Ronnie Hillman....... RB Broncos
DeVier Posey...... WR Texans

So the rule is, don't trade down unless you have 2/3 guys you think you'd take at the lower pick... Above are the guys selected between our original pick and the one we traded down to.

I have to think Osemele & Randle were possibilities -- Randle I'd bet my lunch would've been the pick if he dropped. (And if Randle fell to us, all the media talking heads would be gushing over our draft, fwiw.)

What's interesting is the Texans picked again just 8 picks later:

T.J. Graham.......... WR Bills
Bryan Anger.......... P Jaguars
Josh LeRibeus........ OG Redskins
Olivier Vernon........ DE Dolphins
Brandon Taylor....... S Chargers
Donald Stephenson. OT Chiefs
Russell Wilson........ QB Seahawks
Brandon Brooks.... OG Texans

I don't think I see any picks in between that look like options for the Texans?

The Texans could have selected the OG Brooks with the earlier pick and come back with the WR Posey with the later pick. So why did they choose the WR earlier? Did they think another team might snatch Posey before their next pick?

badboy
04-30-2012, 01:11 PM
You would taken Fleener over Mercilus? Seriously?Is that what I said? No. I said I would have taken Fleener (a starting WR2) AND Vinny Curry over Mercilus and I'd do it today. Not dissing Whitney & glad he is on team, however 2 starters at need position over one rotational OLB that may not beat out Reed year one.

The Pencil Neck
04-30-2012, 01:13 PM
The Texans could have selected the OG Brooks with the earlier pick and come back with the WR Posey with the later pick. So why did they choose the WR earlier? Did they think another team might snatch Posey before their next pick?

I think the Texans had Posey in their sights. I don't think they had Randle ranked nearly as high as everyone else did.

I think they scouted Posey from the year before and had a 1st or 2nd round grade on him and I think they still had that grade on him but realized that he'd probably dropped off some people's radar. But they didn't want to take a chance he'd be gone with their next pick.

Mayock said this was a good pick and I don't think he was just blowing smoke. He'll tell you when he thinks a guy is drafted too high.

HOU-TEX
04-30-2012, 01:19 PM
Is that what I said? No. I said I would have taken Fleener (a starting WR2) AND Vinny Curry over Mercilus and I'd do it today. Not dissing Whitney & glad he is on team, however 2 starters at need position over one rotational OLB that may not beat out Reed year one.

Who's to say they'd be starters? To me, Fleener is a tweener. He's not a true TE, but his speed and hands make him a borderline WR (like a Dorin Dickerson). At least OD had a tad of blocking experience coming out. Fleener hasn't blocked his entire College career. That alone tells me he was never really high on our board to begin with.

IMO, Fleener would be a poor man's Walter as a WR....minus Walter's ability to block.

I think this was a successfull draft considering our position

Dutchrudder
04-30-2012, 01:21 PM
Bryan Anger.......... P Jaguars

That's the guy they were targeting in the 4th for sure. Coach Joe was really bummed that he didn't fall to us.

utahmark
04-30-2012, 01:42 PM
Is that what I said? No. I said I would have taken Fleener (a starting WR2) AND Vinny Curry over Mercilus and I'd do it today. Not dissing Whitney & glad he is on team, however 2 starters at need position over one rotational OLB that may not beat out Reed year one.

You make it sound like we traded those two picks to move up and get Mercilus. Instead of getting fleener and Curry we got Mercilus, Posey and Crick.

Also, not sure how you got two players we did'nt even draft as sure starters. Then you have 3 guys we drafted as having no chance at starting.

beerlover
04-30-2012, 07:18 PM
Excellent move!

Right now, I'm not sure whether Randle or Posey will end up having a better career; I want to say Posey.

Bingo! :)

TimeKiller
04-30-2012, 08:15 PM
The trade OUT of the 2nd round is the one that will draw the most attention but in BL's 2nd post he brings up a much deeper topic, Rick Smith's draft board management. Throughout the draft I think he made good calls. When it seemed every pick in the 1st was traded for it was really tense KNOWING someone was going to fall but would it be a player they could use? Stood tall and let Mercilus drift right to him. Cordy Glenn was still available but they picked up a similar prospect in the 3rd, instead opting to take the top pass rusher available, a guy I think most people expected him to go about 5 or 6 picks earlier. Well done. Then in the 4th, cleans house. An experienced, gritty OC who was raised on SEC defenses. A guy with electric speed and agility with potential as a 3rd WR. How about a flyer on a guy who likely goes 2 rounds higher if not for the injury risk. All 3 of those guys have huge upside AND put pressure on guys who are making bank. Again, well done. Then taking their top K available before Ks start falling off the board. Well done, yet a 3rd time. You know they couldn't get away from a draft without picking a player from one of their former colleges! Purdue IS where Rick Smith attended, right? The Mondek pick, kind of a head scratcher to me but I won't complain about Kubiak rebuilding his OL.

In UDFA they brought in a LOT of athletic guys. See if the staff can teach some of them how to ball, I bet at least a guy or two will make it. Loiseau seems like one, if he can raise hell on teams and learn some ILB he's got a shot. Dwight Jones, I personally don't believe he's got the brains to pull it off but he's got the body to be dominant. Ford also seems like he's got a shot to impact FB. Since they've actually gone a whole draft now without a TE James Casey really has his chance to be the guy across from OD. This could all gel nicely.

They have paid a price for the shine Wade, Joseph and Manning provided. Yet, they seemed to have survived the storm in shape to make more noise later this year.

beerlover
04-30-2012, 08:44 PM
The trade OUT of the 2nd round is the one that will draw the most attention but in BL's 2nd post he brings up a much deeper topic, Rick Smith's draft board management. Throughout the draft I think he made good calls. When it seemed every pick in the 1st was traded for it was really tense KNOWING someone was going to fall but would it be a player they could use? Stood tall and let Mercilus drift right to him. Cordy Glenn was still available but they picked up a similar prospect in the 3rd, instead opting to take the top pass rusher available, a guy I think most people expected him to go about 5 or 6 picks earlier. Well done. Then in the 4th, cleans house. An experienced, gritty OC who was raised on SEC defenses. A guy with electric speed and agility with potential as a 3rd WR. How about a flyer on a guy who likely goes 2 rounds higher if not for the injury risk. All 3 of those guys have huge upside AND put pressure on guys who are making bank. Again, well done. Then taking their top K available before Ks start falling off the board. Well done, yet a 3rd time. You know they couldn't get away from a draft without picking a player from one of their former colleges! Purdue IS where Rick Smith attended, right? The Mondek pick, kind of a head scratcher to me but I won't complain about Kubiak rebuilding his OL.

In UDFA they brought in a LOT of athletic guys. See if the staff can teach some of them how to ball, I bet at least a guy or two will make it. Loiseau seems like one, if he can raise hell on teams and learn some ILB he's got a shot. Dwight Jones, I personally don't believe he's got the brains to pull it off but he's got the body to be dominant. Ford also seems like he's got a shot to impact FB. Since they've actually gone a whole draft now without a TE James Casey really has his chance to be the guy across from OD. This could all gel nicely.

They have paid a price for the shine Wade, Joseph and Manning provided. Yet, they seemed to have survived the storm in shape to make more noise later this year.

This is a great post (must spread rep).

Of major importance did the Texans improve their roster while losing Mario, DeMeco, Winston & Rackers? At minimum Rick & Co. addressed each position how well they work & fit time will tell, but I like it.

I think trading down is a sign of strength & technique used by teams who are competitive while facing salary cap restrictions.

steelbtexan
04-30-2012, 09:27 PM
This is a great post (must spread rep).

Of major importance did the Texans improve their roster while losing Mario, DeMeco, Winston & Rackers? At minimum Rick & Co. addressed each position how well they work & fit time will tell, but I like it.

I think trading down is a sign of strength & technique used by teams who are competitive while facing salary cap restrictions.

Got him,

I've not been a fan of Rick, but he's done a solid job 2 yrs in a row. Having 2 experienced coaches Wade/Gary giving him lists has helped Rick make better decisions under pressure during the draft. Trades/picks etc....

I dont care for the Posey pick, I like Martin more.

Brooks is going to make this trade look fantastic. If Crick can stay healthy he will be a steal. Crick is a better version of Derrick Wolfe.

Hopefully the Bullock pick works out. I'm not all that jazzed about the pick. Why take a K from A&M when your Aggie HC cant bring himself to watch the FG's. LOL

texasam82
04-30-2012, 09:39 PM
Got him,

I've not been a fan of Rick, but he's done a solid job 2 yrs in a row. Having 2 experienced coaches Wade/Gary giving him lists has helped Rick make better decisions under pressure during the draft. Trades/picks etc....

I dont care for the Posey pick, I like Martin more.

Brooks is going to make this trade look fantastic. If Crick can stay healthy he will be a steal. Crick is a better version of Derrick Wolfe.

Hopefully the Bullock pick works out. I'm not all that jazzed about the pick. Why take a K from A&M when your Aggie HC cant bring himself to watch the FG's. LOL


Funny you mentioned poise under pressure. How do you guys think the draft being divided into 3 days has effected this area of concern? Certainly gives a GM more time to re-evaluate his board.

badboy
04-30-2012, 09:47 PM
You make it sound like we traded those two picks to move up and get Mercilus. Instead of getting fleener and Curry we got Mercilus, Posey and Crick.

Also, not sure how you got two players we did'nt even draft as sure starters. Then you have 3 guys we drafted as having no chance at starting.

I have no idea where you get that I said we traded two picks for Mercilus? We picked him# 26 and could have had Fleener who in my view becomes starting WR2 over JJ and Walter. He could also play TE2 in those sets. In second round we could have drafted Vinny Curry who imo is a more powerful OLB with speed where as WM is strictly a speed rusher. Both would be very successful in this system. Again, I'm good with Mercilus, but Fleener& Curry better than Merci. I am not a Posey fan so I don't count him as an asset in this draft scenario.

1. Fleener WR/TE 2. Curry OLB 3. Brandon Brooks 4a. Keshawn Martin WR and 4b. Jared Crick 5. Bullock and 6 OT/OG Mondek

In my draft, we miss out on a questionable Posey but hit on starter Fleener & still have a very good rotation OLB that could beat out Reed 2013. We also miss out on a pretty good center in Ben Jones who might be able to play OG but we have two others in Brooks and Mondek. Myers never misses a game. Just my way of looking at things.

steelbtexan
04-30-2012, 10:25 PM
Funny you mentioned poise under pressure. How do you guys think the draft being divided into 3 days has effected this area of concern? Certainly gives a GM more time to re-evaluate his board.

A huge difference, especially on day 2. It gives Rick/Gary/Wade a chance to sit down after seeing how the draft fell and develop a strategy whether to stay put,move up/down. You dont have to think on your feet as much. Which plays to Rick/Garys strength. Over analytical under pressure, the new format removes that pressure.

I dont think it's a coincedence that Rick/Gary have made trades in rd 2 every yr since the draft moved to a 3 day format.

Playoffs
05-01-2012, 09:46 AM
[COLOR="Blue"]
I have to think Osemele & Randle were possibilities -- Randle I'd bet my lunch would've been the pick if he dropped. (And if Randle fell to us, all the media talking heads would be gushing over our draft, fwiw.)Hmmm, perhaps not:

The Sideline View ‏ @SidelineFB Reply Retweet Favorite Open
Spoke w/ teams post-draft and found out Konz slipped due to heart issue, J. Brown for positive test and Rueben Randle due to laziness & knee

GP
05-01-2012, 10:52 AM
The trade OUT of the 2nd round is the one that will draw the most attention but in BL's 2nd post he brings up a much deeper topic, Rick Smith's draft board management. Throughout the draft I think he made good calls. When it seemed every pick in the 1st was traded for it was really tense KNOWING someone was going to fall but would it be a player they could use? Stood tall and let Mercilus drift right to him. Cordy Glenn was still available but they picked up a similar prospect in the 3rd, instead opting to take the top pass rusher available, a guy I think most people expected him to go about 5 or 6 picks earlier. Well done. Then in the 4th, cleans house. An experienced, gritty OC who was raised on SEC defenses. A guy with electric speed and agility with potential as a 3rd WR. How about a flyer on a guy who likely goes 2 rounds higher if not for the injury risk. All 3 of those guys have huge upside AND put pressure on guys who are making bank. Again, well done. Then taking their top K available before Ks start falling off the board. Well done, yet a 3rd time. You know they couldn't get away from a draft without picking a player from one of their former colleges! Purdue IS where Rick Smith attended, right? The Mondek pick, kind of a head scratcher to me but I won't complain about Kubiak rebuilding his OL.

In UDFA they brought in a LOT of athletic guys. See if the staff can teach some of them how to ball, I bet at least a guy or two will make it. Loiseau seems like one, if he can raise hell on teams and learn some ILB he's got a shot. Dwight Jones, I personally don't believe he's got the brains to pull it off but he's got the body to be dominant. Ford also seems like he's got a shot to impact FB. Since they've actually gone a whole draft now without a TE James Casey really has his chance to be the guy across from OD. This could all gel nicely.

They have paid a price for the shine Wade, Joseph and Manning provided. Yet, they seemed to have survived the storm in shape to make more noise later this year.

I can get on board with this line of thinking.

Posey, at this point, becomes almost a tertiary component to the overall landscape of what we did with our round-by-round opportunities.

We really, really, REALLY need Andre Johnson to stay healthy and stay on the field as a viable option every Sunday. He and Foster are the two linchpins that holds our offense together.

My favorite UDFAs are Keenum (QB), Loiseau (LB), and Ford (FB)...because I see those three guys as being the "model player" for what Kubiak and Wade want in a player for their respective squads. There are some other UDFAs that are gifted (Dwight Jones, for example) but might not have the rest of the inventory to stick her long-term.