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Marcus
04-29-2012, 07:07 PM
Has anyone noticed that NOT ONE defensive back was taken by the Texans in the draft?

Not only that, not a single UDFA defensive back has been signed.*

Wade Phillips must be feeling real good about his secondary not to even merit a UDFA signing at this point. My guess is they a good feeling about the progress that Kareem Jackson is making at corner, and Quin at safety. They also must be excited about Brandon Harris and Roc Carmichael.

But I'm also thinking it could be Phillips not worrying too much about the secondary play given the way he's assembling the front 7, which is downright scary, IMO.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Damn! I didn't notice the safeties signed. Doubt they make the roster though.

EllisUnit
04-29-2012, 07:15 PM
My thought is

:wadepalm:

yep that about sums it up !

TdotTexas2Step
04-29-2012, 07:15 PM
Based on last year alone, I feel extremely comfortable with Jonathan Joseph as the first corner, Brice McCain as the slot corner, and Manning/Quin at the safety spots.

Kareem is manageable at the second corner spot.

Harris should find some playing time this year backing up McCain as the nickle corner and as a 4th corner. I don't think he'll be able to play outside corner - though I'd be extremely happy to be proven wrong - and I'm thinking Wade was hoping to groom him as the future nickle corner but was pleasantly surprised by McCain's performance last season.

With that said, just on lack of experience, it's going to be really nerve-wracking if one of Joseph/Kareem/McCain go down and one of your young guns have to be thrown into the fire.

Allstar
04-29-2012, 07:17 PM
We're banking on Harris/Carmichael to take over Allen's duties.

dalemurphy
04-29-2012, 07:24 PM
We're banking on Harris/Carmichael to take over Allen's duties.

Don't forget McManis...

I'm sure they make look at some vets to compete in camp.. But, since 5 of their 6 CBs on the roster are young, developing players who have shown improvement and/or ability, drafting more of the same made little sense to them, I would think.

Texn4life
04-29-2012, 07:27 PM
Don't forget McManis...

I'm sure they make look at some vets to compete in camp.. But, since 5 of their 6 CBs on the roster are young, developing players who have shown improvement and/or ability, drafting more of the same made little sense to them, I would think.

I agree with this...... I wanted Bentley when he was available, but I can't fault them for going the route they did. I expect some pretty decent names to become available after June 1st and we can bring in one of those guys to come in and compete.

Lucky
04-29-2012, 07:31 PM
Don't forget McManis...
Why not? He hasn't done a thing in the 2 years he's been here. I'm hoping Harris and Carmichael have some miraculous transformation into NFL CBs this offseason. I see no reason to hold out hope for McManis. He's a Smith/Bush/Gibbs pick, anyway.

JCTexan
04-29-2012, 07:31 PM
We're banking on Harris/Carmichael to take over Allen's duties.

I would think so too. Neither Harris or Carmichael saw much of the field in 2011 but were both high draft picks from last year (2nd and 4th rounders, respectively).

CloakNNNdagger
04-29-2012, 07:44 PM
See my recent post on Eddie Pleasant (signed) in the "undrafted" thread.

texanchris
04-29-2012, 07:48 PM
I think we will be fine in the secondary this year. Harris and Carmicheal are more than capable of taking over Allens spot. Jackson has been playing better and the rest of the secondary is solid. I am more worried about the nose tackle position because i have a feeling that Cody and Mitchell will take a huge step back this year.

Lucky
04-29-2012, 07:49 PM
Has anyone noticed that NOT ONE defensive back was taken by the Texans in the draft?

Not only that, not a single UDFA defensive back has been signed.*

Thoughts?

EDIT: Damn! I didn't notice the safeties signed. Doubt they make the roster though.
Have the Texans actually released the UDFA signings? I don't think so. So there may still be CBs signed as UDFAs. The Texans currently have 6 CBs under contract and I'm certain they will go into camp with more than that. Where they will come from? TBD. But, there's certainly going to be more CBs on the roster by the end of July.

Allstar
04-29-2012, 07:51 PM
I think we will be fine in the secondary this year. Harris and Carmicheal are more than capable of taking over Allens spot. Jackson has been playing better and the rest of the secondary is solid. I am more worried about the nose tackle position because i have a feeling that Cody and Mitchell will take a huge step back this year.

Cody has been nothing if not consistent during his tenure here, I don't know why you feel like he'll take a step back.

Corrosion
04-29-2012, 08:42 PM
Cody has been nothing if not consistent during his tenure here, I don't know why you feel like he'll take a step back.

Thats because the talking heads want a 330lb guy to play the nose and dont understand that Wades defense doesnt rely on a big fat tree stump but guy's penetrating gaps.


And you arespot on , Cody has probably been the most consistent DL on the roster over his time in a Texan uniform. He makes plays from sideline to sideline ....



As for the thread topic , I would have liked to have seen a CB drafted at some point but with the guy's they have that didnt play last season , I think they can fill the void left in the wake of Allen.

SteveSlaton20
04-29-2012, 09:01 PM
we didn't need to draft one.

quin, manning, nolan, demps are solid safeties.
joseph, kareem, brice, harris, mcmanis, and carmichael.

we were going to give kareem one more year to prove himself, and i think he played solid the later in the season, still has a problem being a playmaker/look for the ball at the right time. rest are solid. keo to ps imo, so he wont be on the 53 man roster.

Fili
04-29-2012, 10:44 PM
I was surprised when I found out we haven't signed a CB yet. Then I look at the depth and we still got Harris and the others.

TexanSam
04-29-2012, 10:47 PM
Why not? He hasn't done a thing in the 2 years he's been here. I'm hoping Harris and Carmichael have some miraculous transformation into NFL CBs this offseason. I see no reason to hold out hope for McManis. He's a Smith/Bush/Gibbs pick, anyway.

I have some hope for Harris since he saw a little bit of playing time last season. Carmichael was injured the entire season, so who know if he'll be used to the speed of the NFL without playing a snap. Hope so though. The more depth we have in the secondary the better.

pec0sb0b
04-29-2012, 11:13 PM
Dallas was seeking trade offers for Mike Jenkins...I should think that Phillips would be interested in him just as he was in James Bradie. Give 'em Jacoby Jones and kill two birds with one stone. Jenkin's base salary for 2012 is only one million.

Lucky
04-29-2012, 11:36 PM
Jenkin's base salary for 2012 is only one million.
Right. But 2012 is also the last year on Jenkins rookie contract. Basically, you would be renting him. And no, Jerry won't be taking Jacoby in return.

ArlingtonTexan
04-29-2012, 11:44 PM
Given the amount of draft picks (8) and high dollar free agents (2), we have spent over the last three years, it was time for the area to get ignored. We have made the investment in that area those dudes need to play and play well, which they did as an overall group in 2011.

HJam72
04-30-2012, 05:21 AM
I'm usually pretty big on the secondary, but I'm OK with things as they stand. We're kind of waiting to see what we've really got with a lot of young players and we've got J. Joseph and D. Manning to ensure things aren't going to fall apart. We can only afford to keep so many players on one part of the team at a time, so we're focused on other things. I just hope K.J. keeps improving.

welsh texan
04-30-2012, 06:39 AM
KJ has reached a point where he isn't going to lose you games of his own accord, with good safety play behind and pass rush up front , KJ just needs to take another step forward this offseason and show that he can be full time #2 which I'm comfortable with.

They always talk about the 3rd year at CB as a breakout year, just look at Aso for that, not that he's going to be Aso quality but you can see the chance for big improvement from that and many other examples.

steelbtexan
04-30-2012, 07:40 AM
Thats because the talking heads want a 330lb guy to play the nose and dont understand that Wades defense doesnt rely on a big fat tree stump but guy's penetrating gaps.


And you arespot on , Cody has probably been the most consistent DL on the roster over his time in a Texan uniform. He makes plays from sideline to sideline ....



As for the thread topic , I would have liked to have seen a CB drafted at some point but with the guy's they have that didnt play last season , I think they can fill the void left in the wake of Allen.

Agreed,

But they did bring in a huge NT as a UDFA. (Fangupo) Who I believe will not only make the roster, but be a big contributor. The guy was injured a little last yr (Ankle) but he's a stud. Fangupo is strong as an oxe (a 2 down NT) and should provide the run stopping element the fans have been crying for. He should be a good compliment to the lighter NT's Cody/Mitchell.

Man, the DL is going to be deep and talented this yr. I love the Crick pick. LOL He's going to be a very good 5 tech if he can stay healthy. Both Fangupo and Crick fit the mold that Wade looks for in front 7 guys. (Even though Fangupo is a huge NT) Both are very intense players.

As far as the CB's go I think Carmicheal is going to be a sleeper. He has great ball skills and is very fast. He's just short and that could present some problems with bigger WR's outside. Harris has the ability to be a starter, he just needed experience last yr. I could see Wade bringing in a vet CB that gets cut late in camp like they did with Allen.

drs23
04-30-2012, 11:31 AM
Agreed,

But they did bring in a huge NT as a UDFA. (Fangupo) Who I believe will not only make the roster, but be a big contributor. The guy was injured a little last yr (Ankle) but he's a stud. Fangupo is strong as an oxe (a 2 down NT) and should provide the run stopping element the fans have been crying for. He should be a good compliment to the lighter NT's Cody/Mitchell.

Man, the DL is going to be deep and talented this yr. I love the Crick pick. LOL He's going to be a very good 5 tech if he can stay healthy. Both Fangupo and Crick fit the mold that Wade looks for in front 7 guys. (Even though Fangupo is a huge NT) Both are very intense players.

As far as the CB's go I think Carmicheal is going to be a sleeper. He has great ball skills and is very fast. He's just short and that could present some problems with bigger WR's outside. Harris has the ability to be a starter, he just needed experience last yr. I could see Wade bringing in a vet CB that gets cut late in camp like they did with Allen.

steelb, I had the same concerns though now I feel they might not be really warranted. In listening to Bill Kollar's presser, the team didn't seem concerned in the least. That in conjunction with the Bills dropping Fort Knox on Mario after the exact injury leads me to believe that it won't necessarily indicate future issues. But then I'm no CND, so idonno: for sure.

The second bolded. I've been thinking that for some time. This was reinforced when for the first time that Rick's been calling the draft, there wasn't a CB taken even though he said he'll always take a CB, or something to that effect.

Wolf
05-05-2012, 02:47 PM
See my recent post on Eddie Pleasant (signed) in the "undrafted" thread.
Case Keenum, Eddie Pleasant among Texans’ notable UDFAs

Pleasant (5-10, 211) was a two-year starter at Oregon. He began his career as a linebacker and emergency running back and finished it with All-Pac 12 first-team honors in 2011. He ran a 4.63 40-yard dash, had 22 bench press reps of 225 pounds and had a 33.5-inch vertical jump at the NFL Scouting Combine.


http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Case-Keenum-Eddie-Pleasant-among-Texans%E2%80%99-notable-UDFAs/1c5934c3-8ab4-48f9-9144-8e9dbb8f07b4

Anyone seen this kid play?

The Pencil Neck
05-05-2012, 02:49 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Case-Keenum-Eddie-Pleasant-among-Texans%E2%80%99-notable-UDFAs/1c5934c3-8ab4-48f9-9144-8e9dbb8f07b4

Anyone seen this kid play?

No, but I'm starting to get intrigued by him because of all the people talking him up. Smith seemed to be more psyched about this guy than any of the other UDFAs.

The Pencil Neck
05-05-2012, 02:53 PM
Doesn't look that great from his highlight reel.

Youtube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UM6t8ryYEc)

Wolf
05-05-2012, 02:54 PM
No, but I'm starting to get intrigued by him because of all the people talking him up. Smith seemed to be more psyched about this guy than any of the other UDFAs.

yeah, I was surprised on the Title of the article, They had his name instead of Jones
so I kinda felt that the Texans like the kid a little bit more

ArlingtonTexan
05-06-2012, 12:21 AM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Case-Keenum-Eddie-Pleasant-among-Texans%E2%80%99-notable-UDFAs/1c5934c3-8ab4-48f9-9144-8e9dbb8f07b4

Anyone seen this kid play?

I watched 3 or 4 Oregon games this year and did not remember him at all. Safety is probably the worse position to evaluate on regular tv though.

Rey
05-06-2012, 01:12 AM
Doesn't look that great from his highlight reel.

Youtube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UM6t8ryYEc)

Hard to tell a whole lot since they don't show the secondary until the ball is thrown in most of the clips, but he seems to have good ball skills. Looks like he's aware of where the ball is when it's thrown and gets his hands on it.

But that was what, 7 plays?

Gonna have to see him in camp and pre season.

The Pencil Neck
05-06-2012, 02:33 AM
But that was what, 7 plays?


That was my problem with it. Not a lot there.

bckey
05-06-2012, 09:15 AM
Hard to tell a whole lot since they don't show the secondary until the ball is thrown in most of the clips, but he seems to have good ball skills. Looks like he's aware of where the ball is when it's thrown and gets his hands on it.

But that was what, 7 plays?

Gonna have to see him in camp and pre season.

That is what I came away thinking after watching his highlights. There are quite a few intriguing prospects in this upcoming camp to watch. Much more than years past. Should be an exciting season.

Playoffs
05-06-2012, 09:33 AM
Yes, I noticed and yes, it's a concern. I think you pretty much need to draft a CB every year in this league. We're going to need some bigger DBs to match up with the Colts & other teams multiple TE sets that's becoming all the rage now.

Lucky
05-06-2012, 09:57 AM
No, but I'm starting to get intrigued by him because of all the people talking him up. Smith seemed to be more psyched about this guy than any of the other UDFAs.
I'm more interested in Desmond Marrow from Toledo. He's listed as a safety by the Texans, but Marrow played boundary cornerback while at Toledo. Based upon his career and pro day measurables, I wonder why not give him a shot at CB?

I went back to the 2010 season, and saw that Juron Criner and Arizona had a big day vs Toledo. But when I saw the video, most of the damage was off the other CB (#6) and bubble screens. Same with Boise State, who threw a lot on Toledo, but not Marrow. To me, Marrow looks like the super sleeper out of this UDFA class.

Rey
05-06-2012, 10:06 AM
I'm more interested in Desmond Marrow from Toledo. He's listed as a safety by the Texans, but Marrow played boundary cornerback while at Toledo. Based upon his career and pro day measurables, I wonder why not give him a shot at CB?

I went back to the 2010 season, and saw that Juron Criner and Arizona had a big day vs Toledo. But when I saw the video, most of the damage was off the other CB (#6) and bubble screens. Same with Boise State, who threw a lot on Toledo, but not Marrow. To me, Marrow looks like the super sleeper out of this UDFA class.

Yep.

In the predict the 53 man roster I had marrow making the team as a safety.

But you are right that he has the measurables to play cb in the NFL.

beerlover
05-06-2012, 10:21 AM
I doubt he makes the 53 man roster more likely practice squad, depending on how well rest of group responds in general.

Looks like a Free Safety to me. Long wingspan, good range, hands will need a lot of work on his footwork, getting lower & dropping his hips, but intriguing NFL size with excellent vertical. Committed to work hard must stay healthy.

Goldensilence
05-06-2012, 11:39 AM
Considering the investment they put last year into fixing it, I hope they are content with what they have.

Joeseph is set at #1

KJ ha this year to prove he is a serviceable #2.

McCain moved last year into the slot cover very well. He'll never have the size you want in a true#1 but in this league you got to be 3 deep. Right now it looks like we are.

We still are not sure what we have in Harris whom we moved up to get and Carmicheal at least college looked like a good prospect.

It still wouldn't surprise me to see a vet added late though to this group of CBs specially if KJ struggles and the others don't show promise.

I think as Quinn gets more time at FS he's just going to get more accustomed and get better.

Need Manning healthy all year, but we have our starters set at safety. Now it's just back ups.

welsh texan
05-06-2012, 12:13 PM
We're very deep at Safety by the numbers what's the most we'd ever carry? Maybe 5 if 2 or 3 of them add lots of value on special teams?

Quin
Manning
Nolan
Demps
Keo

The top 3 are pretty solid to make the team, Demps brings a lot of value on ST, as does Keo, and they don't tend to give up on draft picks so soon.

Looks like a tough ask for a UDFA S to make the team, and with PS positions limited, and a lot of talent in the UDFA/lower draft class, you have to wonder if safety will be a position they want to spend a PS spot on given that its a position of relative strength in depth.

Rey
05-06-2012, 01:28 PM
We're very deep at Safety by the numbers what's the most we'd ever carry? Maybe 5 if 2 or 3 of them add lots of value on special teams?

Quin
Manning
Nolan
Demps
Keo

The top 3 are pretty solid to make the team, Demps brings a lot of value on ST, as does Keo, and they don't tend to give up on draft picks so soon.

Looks like a tough ask for a UDFA S to make the team, and with PS positions limited, and a lot of talent in the UDFA/lower draft class, you have to wonder if safety will be a position they want to spend a PS spot on given that its a position of relative strength in depth.

Demps and keo bring "a lot" of value to special teams?

Since when?

Do they suck on special teams? No. But they aren't out their tearing it up either.

I think reserve safety would be one of the easier positions to make it as an udfa. Not a lot of high end draft picks there and both keo and demps were cut at some point and brought back. Demps showed more than Leo, but i wouldn't consider either one locks to make the roster.

The Pencil Neck
05-06-2012, 01:34 PM
We're very deep at Safety by the numbers what's the most we'd ever carry? Maybe 5 if 2 or 3 of them add lots of value on special teams?

Quin
Manning
Nolan
Demps
Keo

The top 3 are pretty solid to make the team, Demps brings a lot of value on ST, as does Keo, and they don't tend to give up on draft picks so soon.

Looks like a tough ask for a UDFA S to make the team, and with PS positions limited, and a lot of talent in the UDFA/lower draft class, you have to wonder if safety will be a position they want to spend a PS spot on given that its a position of relative strength in depth.

That's where I'm at with it. And this staff was pretty high on Keo when they drafted him. I don't think we saw much in him when he hit the field last season but he plays ST. He's going to have to have a very bad camp not to make the team this year.

And Demps actually gave us some good minutes last year and plays ST. So, again, he's going to have to get seriously outplayed not to make the team.

And then, on the CB side, our three starters are set: JJo, KJ, and McCain. Harris and Carmichael are going to get every opportunity to make the team and hopefully they produce more than they did last year. I was expecting a lot more from them last year -- granted, Carmichael was on IR, but still, I expected something from Harris.

In a way, Carmichael is our "new" rookie CB this year.

IIRC, we usually go with 6 CBs. So we might have room for 1 more. But if we do that, that's probably 1 less DL we go with and that might mean no Fangupo.

Rey
05-06-2012, 02:39 PM
That's where I'm at with it. And this staff was pretty high on Keo when they drafted him. I don't think we saw much in him when he hit the field last season but he plays ST. He's going to have to have a very bad camp not to make the team this year.

And Demps actually gave us some good minutes last year and plays ST. So, again, he's going to have to get seriously outplayed not to make the team.

And then, on the CB side, our three starters are set: JJo, KJ, and McCain. Harris and Carmichael are going to get every opportunity to make the team and hopefully they produce more than they did last year. I was expecting a lot more from them last year -- granted, Carmichael was on IR, but still, I expected something from Harris.

In a way, Carmichael is our "new" rookie CB this year.

IIRC, we usually go with 6 CBs. So we might have room for 1 more. But if we do that, that's probably 1 less DL we go with and that might mean no Fangupo.

Both demps and keo were cut at some point last year. Demps flashed a little but I think you are wrong. I think they are far from locked into roster spots.

Lucky
05-06-2012, 02:46 PM
That's where I'm at with it. And this staff was pretty high on Keo when they drafted him. I don't think we saw much in him when he hit the field last season but he plays ST. He's going to have to have a very bad camp not to make the team this year.

And Demps actually gave us some good minutes last year and plays ST. So, again, he's going to have to get seriously outplayed not to make the team.
I think you're right on Demps. When Nolan & Manning went down, the Texans realized quick that Keo was not the answer, and cutting Demps was a mistake.

Keo? For all of his supposed special teams prowess, he came up with the same number of tackles as the punter (4). If the Texans keep 5 safeties, it will be a real competition for that last spot.

The Pencil Neck
05-06-2012, 02:52 PM
Both demps and keo were cut at some point last year. Demps flashed a little but I think you are wrong. I think they are far from locked into roster spots.

IIRC, Keo was cut, PS'd, and then brought back to the roster. Demps was cut and then brought back to the roster and played well.

But I didn't say they were locks. I tried to say that the UDFAs are going to have to have amazing camps and preseasons to take these guy's jobs away. When you've got talented young guys (with a little seasoning) who've got experience in your system going up against talented younger guys who don't have experience in your system, the younger guys are at a disadvantage. They're going to have to show something and they're going to have to outperform the vets.

steelbtexan
05-06-2012, 03:10 PM
If Fangupo plays as well as I think he can Wade/Gary will find a spot on the 53 for him. Provided Fangupo can stay healthy.

welsh texan
05-07-2012, 01:18 PM
Thats quite a backlash to my last post in this thread :ahhaha:

Pretty sure Demps is a good option to keep as 2nd string returner on ST's, and the coaching staff have talked him up post-season claiming that what mistakes he made were due to being on the street for a while. He seems like a guy who can sit on the bench for games on end and be right up to speed if you do end up putting him in the game.

Now if you are deciding who to have as your #4/5 safety, those are some pretty nice attributes to have as a backup, and you know that throughout a season you will likely have to rely on your #4/5 to perform adequately at some stage.

Keo, I just get the feeling the coaches think there's more to come from him, I think they wanted to keep him off the field last season but were forced to throw him in there through injuries (we play with 3 safeties often enough that your 5th will end up in there at some stage).

We also need to remember that the rookies really didn't get the opportunity to learn last off season that they normally do, JJdub and Reed may have outperformed that, but I didn't see too many others who were ready to play, maybe we just have 2 beasts at the top of the draft and the coaches believe in what they've got later on but just need to give them time? I don't see their actions so far (talking up the rookie DB's, whilst not drafting any) as a sign that they're about to give up on them.

I didn't claim that those 2 were locks to make the roster, but that they have a big head start on any UDFA. I'll stand by that.