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AMartin56
04-30-2012, 05:41 PM
But still, the suspension for multiple rules violations...missing 10 games because of it...and inconsistencies in scouting reports is the three-legged stool I'm sitting upon.

I'm normally a glass half empty guy but I see him missing 10 games in his senior year as a possible PLUS...because we may very well have gotten a guy in the third round that may have been rated right below the top 2-3 receivers in the draft otherwise.

Besides from what I read in one article his second suspension was due to 'overpayments' that came to abour $720 and accepting a free round of golf. So hardly an axe murderer.

Honoring Earl 34
04-30-2012, 05:51 PM
Dont remember where i read it but out of HS he was the number 3 guy behind Julio Jones and AJ Green .


http://dallasnews.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=56415

drs23
04-30-2012, 06:58 PM
For someone who says we shouldn't over value "our guy" you sure boast a lot about nailing the Posey pick. LOL.

And from where I stand, you guys are not in the minority here on this issue. It's easily 85% pro and 15% con on the Posey pick. To say you guys have been on an island defending the pick is not accurate.

GP, in all honesty are you talking today or when the pick was made? From where I was sitting all I can recall is weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth when the pick was announced. I'm pretty sure IRC. And it's still going on to some extent.

ThaShark316
04-30-2012, 07:15 PM
I didn't expect Posey to go that high, but also that I like the pick based on watching him play.

I said it Friday minutes after it happened that I LOVE his vertical game (twitter). When I saw us take him that's the first thing I thought of: His skills on deep balls and sure handedness in the clutch.

Hopefully, my positivity is justified. I think it will be.

drunkcookie
04-30-2012, 07:23 PM
he can adjust his routes as he sees the throw or in instances where the QB was under pressure

I agree, that was something i picked up on and really liked about him... He bailed the QB out a few times in the highlights i saw... By both leaving a route to get open and by adjusting as the ball was thrown..

IMO, Randall was overrated in the draft and Posey underrated... They're about the same, and i'd be cool with either... but from the little i've seen of Posey, and seeing Randall quite a bit, i'm happier with the Texans getting Posey and the additional pick...

We shall see...

Playoffs
04-30-2012, 07:48 PM
Missing 10 full games last year is the major gripe I have. It's offset by his prior production in what has been described as not a WR-friendly offense at OSU. But still, the suspension for multiple rules violations...missing 10 games because of it...and inconsistencies in scouting reports is the three-legged stool I'm sitting upon.

Overall, I can swallow my pride and watch him this summer knowing full well that he could be better than what I think he is. I welcome it because it means the Texans will be better as a result of it. Right now, I just have doubts.Respect.

None of us will know anything until the end of the summer. I expect him to look as lost as most rooks ... for most of the year.

GuerillaBlack
04-30-2012, 07:52 PM
I agree, that was something i picked up on and really liked about him... He bailed the QB out a few times in the highlights i saw... By both leaving a route to get open and by adjusting as the ball was thrown..

IMO, Randall was overrated in the draft and Posey underrated... They're about the same, and i'd be cool with either... but from the little i've seen of Posey, and seeing Randall quite a bit, i'm happier with the Texans getting Posey and the additional pick...

We shall see...

Who did the extra pick turn out to be? Crick right? Smithiak working the draft.

Wolf
04-30-2012, 08:28 PM
Dennison on Texans third rounders (5:19)
Texans offensive coordinator Rick Dennison shared his thoughts on the team's third round selections, in guard Brandon Brooks and receiver DeVier Posey.
http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/Micd-Up-Mercilus-Arrives-in-Houston/0c0107dd-5db8-47fb-8e92-3dadd235d3d9#?id=1101ab31-06ba-4532-a6dc-9c7af9968aed

76Texan
04-30-2012, 11:53 PM
As for calling the pick- congrats! I know how hard it is, especially later in the draft. Yaky gets mad props too. But I had a stretch of 3 years where my last published mock of the year had one player the Texans drafted in the round I had him predicted- Barwin, Holliday, Watt. By the way, could you link me to your mock? I would be interested in reading who else you had. I dont remember reading it, but there were so many mocks coming out before the draft that it could have gotten lost in the shuffle.

Thanks!

I don't do mock like you guys because I never feel comfortable not watching enough game tapes. I know you guys are more comprehensive.

I normally just look at a few positions that the Texans need and learn about the prospects at that position.

2010 was my best as I rated CB as the number one need.
Then I listed 3 guys in order of preference: Jackson, McCourty, and Robinson.
Some of you guys had Kyle Wilson at the top.

Then even though I was among the very few who made the call on Arian Foster (I think he should have at least a third round grade) and also Slaton (I rated him in the third where he was picked); I also wanted Tate - and of course Tate was a solid 2nd rounder (in my slot).
I'm really proud of this pick because it completed a trifecta.
I don't think anybody on earth can call a trifecta at the same position like this; maybe there's another alien like me? LOL!

I also wanted Mitchell; I conservatively rated him a 4th rounder, but I knew he can be drafted in the third as an inside D-lineman that can penetrate.

So I got 3 guys I wanted pretty much in the slot I rated them.
Almost another trifecta on top of a trifecta.

How lucky was that?

rmartin65
05-01-2012, 06:57 AM
I don't do mock like you guys because I never feel comfortable not watching enough game tapes. I know you guys are more comprehensive.

I normally just look at a few positions that the Texans need and learn about the prospects at that position.

2010 was my best as I rated CB as the number one need.
Then I listed 3 guys in order of preference: Jackson, McCourty, and Robinson.
Some of you guys had Kyle Wilson at the top.

Then even though I was among the very few who made the call on Arian Foster (I think he should have at least a third round grade) and also Slaton (I rated him in the third where he was picked); I also wanted Tate - and of course Tate was a solid 2nd rounder (in my slot).
I'm really proud of this pick because it completed a trifecta.
I don't think anybody on earth can call a trifecta at the same position like this; maybe there's another alien like me? LOL!

I also wanted Mitchell; I conservatively rated him a 4th rounder, but I knew he can be drafted in the third as an inside D-lineman that can penetrate.

So I got 3 guys I wanted pretty much in the slot I rated them.
Almost another trifecta on top of a trifecta.

How lucky was that?

Man, you crushed that draft.

GP
05-01-2012, 08:53 AM
GP, in all honesty are you talking today or when the pick was made? From where I was sitting all I can recall is weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth when the pick was announced. I'm pretty sure IRC. And it's still going on to some extent.

Coyotes. Interesting animals. At night, out in the country, you hear them yelping and howling...it sounds like there's 20 of them. But in fact, there's only 3 or 4. They throw their voice in ways that make it almost like yodeling...so it SOUNDS like there's more of them than there are.

Me and rmartin were the coyotes that draft day. Everyone else was telling us to hush and that we don't know anything, and then the name-calling...oh the name calling that was going on...it was awesome.

If anything, later that evening and the next few days afterward is when others starting souring on the pick and expressing it on the board. But when it happened? Everybody was parroting the scouting report that said he would've been ranked a 1st or 2nd rounder, has great 40 time, has great vertical skill, battles CBs, blah blah blah.

For every comment I made in that thread, there were 4 or 5 posters ragging me out for my comment. So, yeah...it was lopsided that day. It's OK, though...I'm built for punishment. My prefrontal cortex has six-pack abs.

Corrosion
05-01-2012, 09:17 AM
Me and rmartin were the coyotes that draft day. Everyone else was telling us to hush and that we don't know anything, and then the name-calling...oh the name calling that was going on...it was awesome.




Who was doing the name calling ?! I havent seen it ..... maybe I have that person on ignore.

pirbroke
05-01-2012, 09:22 AM
Coyotes. Interesting animals. At night, out in the country, you hear them yelping and howling...it sounds like there's 20 of them. But in fact, there's only 3 or 4. They throw their voice in ways that make it almost like yodeling...so it SOUNDS like there's more of them than there are.

Me and rmartin were the coyotes that draft day. Everyone else was telling us to hush and that we don't know anything, and then the name-calling...oh the name calling that was going on...it was awesome.

If anything, later that evening and the next few days afterward is when others starting souring on the pick and expressing it on the board. But when it happened? Everybody was parroting the scouting report that said he would've been ranked a 1st or 2nd rounder, has great 40 time, has great vertical skill, battles CBs, blah blah blah.

For every comment I made in that thread, there were 4 or 5 posters ragging me out for my comment. So, yeah...it was lopsided that day. It's OK, though...I'm built for punishment. My prefrontal cortex has six-pack abs.

WHAT, how dare you say that, you don't know what your talking about, LOL, just kidding GP. I have decided to no longer question the picks from smith and company due to the them hitting more often than missing and the obvious improvement of the team since they have taken over. They are hitting at a above average rate which is why they were in the playoffs last year and I think will do even better this year. I think we have a hell of a scouting department that is improving every year, I remember after Kubes first draft they fired a few of the scouting department, it's obvious they take this very seriously and a poor off season is by far the most important thing to building a strong team. I wanted the sexy picks, the TE or even Hill, but I am glad I ain't the one making the picks, now some of these other teams, I swear the average Joe on this message board would pick better than them. There really is some incompetent people running teams out their. I think the first group that started the Texans admitting that they only watched 4 games of the DB P-Burn they traded for was just so unprofessional and incredibly stupid. Every team misses once in a while ( Okoye ), but this staff is rocking it over all.

steelbtexan
05-01-2012, 09:27 AM
Most people's dislike of the Posey pick has nothing to do with his "character issues.


Its the fact that never did a single talking head mention him in the same sentence as Randall , Jeffery , Wright, Hill or Sanu.

Not a single person (outside myself) even mentioned him prior to the draft in the mock section. Everyone thinks its a reach but they dont realize the type of production he put up in the Big Ten's worst passing offense .... with a horrible QB.
When you take the numbers from the three games he played as Sr and translate them across the full season - those totals would have been greater than 50% of that teams entire passing offense. He put up those same numbers the two years prior too .....


People listen to the talking heads when they say he's scared to go across the middle .... they dont go look at film and see he made a living going across the middle and up the seams .... when he wasnt blowing past DB's on the outside and took some big hits in the process.


Everyone wanted Wright , Randall or Hill .... wont it be a shock when he is better than all of the above ?

Thanks for giving me a comfort level. LOL, Posey and Randalls college careers kind of mirror each other. Very talented guys whose QB's were athletic, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn throwing the ball and would take off running instead of stepping up in the pocket and delivering the ball.

What makes me worry about Posey was his tendency to drop the ball at the Sr. Bowl. He could've just been rusty from not playing much. Posey has the Talent to be a #1 someday. It's a matter of how much work he wants to put in. At this point he's like a young Reggie Wayne.

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2012, 09:53 AM
Thanks for giving me a comfort level. LOL, Posey and Randalls college careers kind of mirror each other. Very talented guys whose QB's were athletic, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn throwing the ball and would take off running instead of stepping up in the pocket and delivering the ball.

What makes me worry about Posey was his tendency to drop the ball at the Sr. Bowl. He could've just been rusty from not playing much. Posey has the Talent to be a #1 someday. It's a matter of how much work he wants to put in. At this point he's like a young Reggie Wayne.

Posey ran his 10 yd split in 1.45 while Randle was 1.52 and Sanu was 1.59 . I bet Martin was quick also and that's what the Texans prefer .

GP
05-01-2012, 10:17 AM
Who was doing the name calling ?! I havent seen it ..... maybe I have that person on ignore.

I'd rather not name names. It's not worth the time. It's posters who have a rich tradition of getting overly personal on even the most trivial of conversations.

You're not one of them, obviously, and it wasn't any of the posters you and I have most conversations with.

disaacks3
05-01-2012, 10:55 AM
So, is everybody getting more onboard with this pick yet?

1. He wasn't going to last till the 5th or 6th. Anyone who thinks that is dreaming. Hell, the Sporting News had him as 2nd/3rd round. If it was a "reach", it wasn't much of one.

2. 40 times - As already mentioned, the individual teams had him from 4.37 -4.48. He's plenty fast enough, the pros is more about route running anyway.

3. Character issues - A) He sold HIS memorabilia - I guess it isn't really yours until you graduate? :rolleyes: B) His job that paid more than it should - I always remember Robbie Benson in One-on-One with his job to water the field...that had automatic sprinklers. This wink, wink stuff never surprises me and it's hard to hold it against the player. I see nothing to suggest he's a thug.

GP
05-01-2012, 10:59 AM
So, is everybody getting more onboard with this pick yet?

1. He wasn't going to last till the 5th or 6th. Anyone who thinks that is dreaming. Hell, the Sporting News had him as 2nd/3rd round. If it was a "reach", it wasn't much of one.

2. 40 times - As already mentioned, the individual teams had him from 4.37 -4.48. He's plenty fast enough, the pros is more about route running anyway.

3. Character issues - A) He sold HIS memorabilia - I guess it isn't really yours until you graduate? :rolleyes: B) His job that paid more than it should - I always remember Robbie Benson in One-on-One with his job to water the field...that had automatic sprinklers. This wink, wink stuff never surprises me and it's hard to hold it against the player. I see nothing to suggest he's a thug.

Sigh....

Well, I guess so.

It was just more fun to gripe about it. :foottap:

The Pencil Neck
05-01-2012, 11:05 AM
So, is everybody getting more onboard with this pick yet?

I didn't love the pick when it was made because this was not one of the guys on my radar. I thought GP was over-reacting to it but I don't think I called him names about it. :) The more I've learned about this kid, his circumstances, his stats, his measurables, his abilities, the more I like him.


I've heard some people say that he's only got the talent to be -- at best -- a #2 receiver but I'm with SteelB in thinking he's more talented than that. And what I've seen of his video makes me think he's got the potential to have better hands than he displayed at the Senior Bowl. I think we might have hit a home run with this guy.

But we've got to see him in a Texans Uni running our system before we'll know for sure. What worries me most is that WRs generally take a few years to mature in the NFL. I'm afraid he won't have the instant impact we're all wanting.

beerlover
05-01-2012, 11:08 AM
The reason most of us figured Posey was off Texan board were character & off field issues. So Texans investigated character/background & came away satisfied with the person/player.

WR is tough to evaluate but Posey is superior to Randle or Sanu in his ability to separate in man coverage & create windows to target (combination of size/speed equal). I looked at all other available WR prospects with that pick & subject to clean character it's not out of question for Texan system & need, that Posey was BPA. So that is where they had him graded on their draft board.

Goldensilence
05-01-2012, 11:11 AM
I think some of the blacklash or mistrust for the pick resides in he wasn't in mention with the other second tier WRs in the draft like Hill, Randle, or Sanu. What makes them all kind of strange is none of them come from notable passing teams really. Theres also conflicting reports of what his 40 time really is. Fair or not as well, there is speculation he could've dropped much further than where we picked him. So there's a question of value.

Part of it is no matter how you feel about it, he was right in the middle of the scandal that cost Jim Tressel his job and missed large parts of his senior year. This makes him hard to evaluate because you're forced to really depend on what he did his junior season.

Repost for WHY people seem an edge for getting Posey where we did. Of course, its pretty much impossible to say if he would've lasted until our next pick at this point. I will say this, if he was THEIR guy without question, at least they went ahead with it.

At this point to me, its over, it doesn't matter. He's a Texan now and I'll be cheering for this guy to succeed.

I do have to weigh in on the Gerhart Vs Tate debate, as I called for Tate. I don't think Gerhart would have been as successful here as Tate. I just don't think he has the same explosion through the hole as Tate does. Prior to losing Hutch I think Minnesota had just as good a line as we do too.

I'd also point out this first year 3 lost fumbles on 81 carries his first year. Same knock some of us pointed out his tendency to fumble the ball. He did manage to secure the ball much better last year not fumbling once, but it's got to be in the back of your head.

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2012, 11:20 AM
I didn't love the pick when it was made because this was not one of the guys on my radar. I thought GP was over-reacting to it but I don't think I called him names about it. :) The more I've learned about this kid, his circumstances, his stats, his measurables, his abilities, the more I like him.


I've heard some people say that he's only got the talent to be -- at best -- a #2 receiver but I'm with SteelB in thinking he's more talented than that. And what I've seen of his video makes me think he's got the potential to have better hands than he displayed at the Senior Bowl. I think we might have hit a home run with this guy.

But we've got to see him in a Texans Uni running our system before we'll know for sure. What worries me most is that WRs generally take a few years to mature in the NFL. I'm afraid he won't have the instant impact we're all wanting.

The reason most of us figured Posey was off Texan board were character & off field issues. So Texans investigated character/background & came away satisfied with the person/player.

WR is tough to evaluate but Posey is superior to Randle or Sanu in his ability to separate in man coverage & create windows to target (combination of size/speed equal). I looked at all other available WR prospects with that pick & subject to clean character it's not out of question for Texan system & need, that Posey was BPA. So that is where they had him graded on their draft board.

The problem is perception is reality . The talk has been about Randle and Sanu for awhile now so folks presume they are the chosen ones . My view is there wasn't a sure fire stud WR in the draft . Blackmon isn't an elite prospect IMO and he is the best ? There were about 10 guys who were about the same so you try to project their talents to the next level .


To be continued it's lunch

Marcus
05-01-2012, 11:26 AM
Coyotes. Interesting animals. At night, out in the country, you hear them yelping and howling...it sounds like there's 20 of them. But in fact, there's only 3 or 4. They throw their voice in ways that make it almost like yodeling...so it SOUNDS like there's more of them than there are.

Me and rmartin were the coyotes that draft day. Everyone else was telling us to hush and that we don't know anything, and then the name-calling...oh the name calling that was going on...it was awesome.

If anything, later that evening and the next few days afterward is when others starting souring on the pick and expressing it on the board. But when it happened? Everybody was parroting the scouting report that said he would've been ranked a 1st or 2nd rounder, has great 40 time, has great vertical skill, battles CBs, blah blah blah.

For every comment I made in that thread, there were 4 or 5 posters ragging me out for my comment. So, yeah...it was lopsided that day. It's OK, though...I'm built for punishment. My prefrontal cortex has six-pack abs.

Well, maybe people wouldn't "punish" you so bad if you'd stop pulling all these conspiracy theories out of your a$$.

Do you still think they "wanted Randle all along, but got cute and traded down, thinking they'd still get him in the third, and had to settle for Posey when Randle got taken"?????

:fingergun::D

Playoffs
05-01-2012, 12:21 PM
I'll post this in here as well, since it's relevant:

The Sideline View ‏ @SidelineFB Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Spoke w/ teams post-draft and found out Konz slipped due to heart issue, J. Brown for positive test and Rueben Randle due to laziness & knee

Yankee_In_TX
05-01-2012, 12:24 PM
I'll post this in here as well, since it's relevant:

The Sideline View ‏ @SidelineFB Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Spoke w/ teams post-draft and found out Konz slipped due to heart issue, J. Brown for positive test and Rueben Randle due to laziness & knee

I believe it was Randle I heard that slept through several meetings.

Vinny
05-01-2012, 12:31 PM
For every comment I made in that thread, there were 4 or 5 posters ragging me out for my comment. So, yeah...it was lopsided that day. It's OK, though...I'm built for punishment. My prefrontal cortex has six-pack abs.

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSOfcpjXoCQmlj5ZpBEEn1lVtGveouwH gRc9ILqERtJ7XsF5S2A

Señor Stan
05-01-2012, 12:59 PM
I believe it was Randle I heard that slept through several meetings.

Yeah...that would drop him off my list...

GP
05-01-2012, 01:18 PM
I didn't love the pick when it was made because this was not one of the guys on my radar. I thought GP was over-reacting to it but I don't think I called him names about it. :) The more I've learned about this kid, his circumstances, his stats, his measurables, his abilities, the more I like him.


I've heard some people say that he's only got the talent to be -- at best -- a #2 receiver but I'm with SteelB in thinking he's more talented than that. And what I've seen of his video makes me think he's got the potential to have better hands than he displayed at the Senior Bowl. I think we might have hit a home run with this guy.

But we've got to see him in a Texans Uni running our system before we'll know for sure. What worries me most is that WRs generally take a few years to mature in the NFL. I'm afraid he won't have the instant impact we're all wanting.

Nah, you were taking me to task but never got involved in the name-calling.

My over-reaction was due to trading down out of the 2nd round AND the things I read and saw a about Posey. It was a combination of things.

paycheck71
05-01-2012, 01:18 PM
My wife went to Ohio State, and she's an absolute OSU football fanatic, so I've seen pretty much every Ohio State game in the last 4 years and have even been to a few. I'm not a scout, or any kind of expert on how college talent translates to NFL, but I like Posey. When you have a Vince Young clone throwing the ball to you, and you still put up the kind of numbers he did, you have to be doing something right. The fact that he broke some retarded NCAA rule doesn't bother me at all, especially knowing more details about the circumstances now. Just my 2 cents.

Corrosion
05-01-2012, 02:08 PM
I'd also point out this first year 3 lost fumbles on 81 carries his first year. Same knock some of us pointed out his tendency to fumble the ball. He did manage to secure the ball much better last year not fumbling once, but it's got to be in the back of your head.

If you are talking about what was said in the mock forums on Gerhart - That was me who first made that point pre-draft and one of the many back & forth issues I had with Rmartin that draft season.


I could probably dig up the conversation if you like ....

Im happy with Foster , Tate and the trade back on that pick too .... forget what they got for trading back ....

Corrosion
05-01-2012, 02:24 PM
I'd rather not name names. It's not worth the time. It's posters who have a rich tradition of getting overly personal on even the most trivial of conversations.

You're not one of them, obviously, and it wasn't any of the posters you and I have most conversations with.

Bleh , if someone is breaking the forum rules .... get them put in timeout with Dex.

Playoffs
05-01-2012, 03:43 PM
I believe it was Randle I heard that slept through several meetings.Where? At the Combine?

Vinny
05-01-2012, 03:48 PM
Where? At the Combine?
I've heard he was "lazy"...take it fwiw.

Yankee_In_TX
05-01-2012, 04:16 PM
Where? At the Combine?

In college. No source to cite.



Soooo, is he a fan favorite NOW?

TejasTom
05-01-2012, 08:41 PM
I believe it was Randle I heard that slept through several meetings.

Yeah...that would drop him off my list...

Too bad, jersey #12 just became available.

Blake
05-02-2012, 07:40 AM
I am still a little surprised that the Texans drafted Posey with 'character' concerns. I guess the taste of winning is chipping away at their apprehensions.

Just make sure we dont become a win at all costs team like a Fisher led team, or Bengals team.

Señor Stan
05-02-2012, 07:58 AM
Too bad, jersey #12 just became available.

Hopefully for owners of the Jones#12, Dwight Jones will pick that for his number. Problem solved. Until August...

Brandon420tx
05-02-2012, 08:10 AM
I am still a little surprised that the Texans drafted Posey with 'character' concerns. I guess the taste of winning is chipping away at their apprehensions.

Just make sure we dont become a win at all costs team like a Fisher led team, or Bengals team.

He doesn't have character concerns. I wish people would stop trying to paint him that color. The NCAA is just a giant douche organization

beerlover
05-02-2012, 08:20 AM
How does a big time weapon @ WR become a hidden gem, the NCAA.

This is one of my favorite videos of DeVier. Big body, physical, like his body lean in & out of breaks along with excellent use of hands this is how you create separation throughout route tree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4cabr5OT7o

Blake
05-02-2012, 08:36 AM
He doesn't have character concerns. I wish people would stop trying to paint him that color. The NCAA is just a giant douche organization

Yes he does. He took excess money for a job, received improper benefits and sold memorabilia, all NCAA violation.

It doesnt matter if you agree with it or not. All are violations. I could steal food to feed my starving family. Doesnt mean I didnt do anything wrong.

Brandon420tx
05-02-2012, 08:41 AM
NCAA violations, for a documented union job, and selling his own stuff, big friggen deal. That's like saying players who get fined for wearing the wrong colored socks or Brian Urlacher for sporting Vitamin Water gear have character issues.

Blake
05-02-2012, 08:48 AM
NCAA violations, for a documented union job, and selling his own stuff, big friggen deal. That's like saying players who get fined for wearing the wrong colored socks or Brian Urlacher for sporting Vitamin Water gear have character issues.

Rationalize it however you want. Doesnt change the facts that Posey thought he could break the rules and get away with it.

Grams
05-02-2012, 08:48 AM
Yes he does. He took excess money for a job, received improper benefits and sold memorabilia, all NCAA violation.

It doesnt matter if you agree with it or not. All are violations. I could steal food to feed my starving family. Doesnt mean I didnt do anything wrong.

But you would be stealing. That is against the law.

He sold his own possessions. He worked a Union job - he had to get paid Union wages. Neither is illegal. Only against the antiquated NCAA rules.

Wrong - yes. Character issue - no way.

Brandon420tx
05-02-2012, 08:58 AM
But you would be stealing. That is against the law.

He sold his own possessions. He worked a Union job - he had to get paid Union wages. Neither is illegal. Only against the antiquated NCAA rules.

Wrong - yes. Character issue - no way.

Thank you.

I'm not "rationalizing" anything. I do not see any "Character Issues" when it comes to this kid, and I don't even have an opinion for this kid yet. I just find it annoying that he's being labeled as a character concern for stupid stuff. I'm more concerned with his lack of playtime last season but he's reportedly kept in football shape during his off time, so again, I'm neutral on this kid.

Hell, the receiver who "does" have character concerns is Dwight Jones, and I still want to see what he can do for this team come offseason.

Blake
05-02-2012, 09:06 AM
I guess we will see it differently. It just seems that some are willing to overlook his mistakes due to the logo on his helmet.

Maybe getting him away from OSU and Columbus will straighten him out. No offense Yankee but OSU harbor's this type of behavior. From Clarette to Pryor. Tressel has really jacked up the program with his win at all costs scheme.

drunkcookie
05-02-2012, 09:41 AM
It just seems that some are willing to overlook his mistakes due to the logo on his helmet.



No one is overlooking Posey's mistakes, most of us just honestly do not give a damn... Big difference...

If he were busted a few times in college for smokin' some reefer, then i'd care a little more...not because i'm Mr. Anti-Pot, hell i want it to be legalized and i don't even smoke it (another topic for another board), but continuing to smoke the reef while in the NFL can get you suspended... That effects the team...

He will be making quite a bit of money legally, and the NFL's policy encourages it...

paycheck71
05-02-2012, 09:42 AM
I guess we will see it differently. It just seems that some are willing to overlook his mistakes due to the logo on his helmet.

Maybe getting him away from OSU and Columbus will straighten him out. No offense Yankee but OSU harbor's this type of behavior. From Clarette to Pryor. Tressel has really jacked up the program with his win at all costs scheme.

ALL schools, including Ohio State and Penn State, play to win at all costs. That's a part of the twisted world of college athletics. If you think differently about Penn State or any other school, you're probably wrong. It always cracks me up when one school gets caught, the fans of their rivals start pointing fingers, all the while they're school is doing the same thing or worse.

The Pencil Neck
05-02-2012, 09:55 AM
I guess we will see it differently. It just seems that some are willing to overlook his mistakes due to the logo on his helmet.

Maybe getting him away from OSU and Columbus will straighten him out. No offense Yankee but OSU harbor's this type of behavior. From Clarette to Pryor. Tressel has really jacked up the program with his win at all costs scheme.

This has nothing to do with the logo on his helmet.

There's a whole different class of "wrong" between being a thug and a poison in the locker room vs. doing things you should be able to do. When the rules themselves are wrong, we should all be outlaws.

Now, I understand why the NCAA has these rules in place because there are ways that players could get paid by people breaking the rules. But the NCAA needs to do a better job of figuring out if someone's trying to make a lot of money by working the system or whether they're just trying to make ends meet.

IIRC, Arian was pissed off about this whole thing and called the NCAA out on it long before Posey was drafted.

So, no. I don't think this kid has character concerns.

ChampionTexan
05-02-2012, 10:06 AM
Yes he does. He took excess money for a job, received improper benefits and sold memorabilia, all NCAA violation.

It doesnt matter if you agree with it or not. All are violations. I could steal food to feed my starving family. Doesnt mean I didnt do anything wrong.

Does getting caught make the character concerns bigger for him than those who didn't get caught. How many NFL players have accepted cash "donations" from overzealous boosters? I'm not going to guess at a percentage, but I think it's safe to assume there's a fair number of those players in the NFL that we aren't aware of. Heck, Nevin Shapiro alleges that Andre Johnson accepted free drinks and VIP room access while at the U. Any character issues that may have existed had this been known at the time Andre was drafted would appear to be unwarranted at this point.

There are character concerns, and "real" character concerns. Violence, and self destructive activities would warrant genuine reluctance on the part of NFL teams. IMO, the type of things we're hearing with Posey warrant awareness, but certainly not anywhere near the level that the breaking of actual laws would.

Blake
05-02-2012, 10:18 AM
Lets get one thing straight. I do not think only OSU and OSU players break the rules. So dont even bother arguing that. But I refuse to ignore rule breaking by someone just because others who have not been caught do it. I can only view a player with the information given to me. Regardless of who breaks the rules, I do think OSU needs to clean up their program. But thats another debate.

Lastly, I am not trying to force anyone to think he has 'character' concerns. I said that I view him as a player with 'character' flaws and that it surprised me because we usually dont draft players that have done something like this. If you want to view his actions as understandable then go ahead. I have already stated that some of us will view it differently.

ChampionTexan
05-02-2012, 10:35 AM
Lets get one thing straight. I do not think only OSU and OSU players break the rules. So dont even bother arguing that. But I refuse to ignore rule breaking by someone just because others who have not been caught do it. I can only view a player with the information given to me. Regardless of who breaks the rules, I do think OSU needs to clean up their program. But thats another debate.

Lastly, I am not trying to force anyone to think he has 'character' concerns. I said that I view him as a player with 'character' flaws and that it surprised me because we usually dont draft players that have done something like this. If you want to view his actions as understandable then go ahead. I have already stated that some of us will view it differently.

Could you please provide us some examples of players who have had these type of character concerns where those concerns being overlooked has come back to bite the NFL team?

Rey
05-02-2012, 10:40 AM
I view him as a player with 'character' flaws

Such as?

The Pencil Neck
05-02-2012, 10:43 AM
Such as?

Well, to Blake's point, Posey's character flaw is that he's a rule-breaker and he doesn't have foresight and possibly has issues with determining the "right" thing to do. The NCAA said "don't do this" and Posey went out and did it. He had to know that jeopardized his NFL career (bad foresight). And when asked, he said he'd do it again (problem determining the right thing to do.)

I don't agree with Blake on this but I see his side of the argument.

Blake
05-02-2012, 10:44 AM
Could you please provide us some examples of players who have had these type of character concerns where those concerns being overlooked has come back to bite the NFL team?

Right after you provide examples of players who have had these type of character concerns where those concerns being overlooked did not come back to bite the NFL team.

Such as?

I already stated them.

drunkcookie
05-02-2012, 10:45 AM
Could you please provide us some examples of players who have had these type of character concerns where those concerns being overlooked has come back to bite the NFL team?

Eric Dickerson...dude just fell apart... The character issues displayed while at SMU should have been a red flag...

Rey
05-02-2012, 10:50 AM
Well, to Blake's point, Posey's character flaw is that he's a rule-breaker and he doesn't have foresight and possibly has issues with determining the "right" thing to do. The NCAA said "don't do this" and Posey went out and did it. He had to know that jeopardized his NFL career (bad foresight). And when asked, he said he'd do it again (problem determining the right thing to do.)

Ok.

Well then I disagree.

It was a genuine question. I thought maybe he had done some other things that I hadn't heard about throughout the course of his life.

I think there is a big difference betwen having "character flaws" and "making some mistakes".

I think we've all made mistakes and done some things we may not be proud of, but I don't think it means we have character flaws.

And then on top of all that, this bad decision or mistake he made was pretty mild in comparison.

Breaking rules doesn't mean you have character flaws either. By that logic, the people that founded this country had character flaws because.

Blake
05-02-2012, 10:50 AM
Well, to Blake's point, Posey's character flaw is that he's a rule-breaker and he doesn't have foresight and possibly has issues with determining the "right" thing to do. The NCAA said "don't do this" and Posey went out and did it. He had to know that jeopardized his NFL career (bad foresight). And when asked, he said he'd do it again (problem determining the right thing to do.)

I don't agree with Blake on this but I see his side of the argument.

Thank you. I am not saying he is a horrible person or a some super villain.

Blake
05-02-2012, 10:53 AM
I think there is a big difference betwen having "character flaws" and "making some mistakes".

Another thing. I put 'character' flaws in quotes because alot of things get lumped into that category. When talking draft stock, anytime there is a personal question mark its classified as a 'character flaw'. There are different degree's of character flaws and I think that is where the disconnect is between myself and some of the other posters in this thread.

The Pencil Neck
05-02-2012, 10:56 AM
Could you please provide us some examples of players who have had these type of character concerns where those concerns being overlooked has come back to bite the NFL team?

And that's really where the problem comes in: "TYPE" of character concerns.

NCAA rules violations get lumped together but there are really whole different sets of them: money issues, PED issues, drug issues, and I have a feeling there are probably more sorts of categories and types I'm not remembering.

I don't know if I even know where to search or what to search for to find out these things.

Eric Dickerson was involved in a play for pay scandal, right? Cush had PED issues, although they were never proved.

Maurice Clarett? He had all sorts of legal issues.

Lawrence Phillips... more legal issues.

But I don't have an exhaustive list, so I can't say for sure.

Guys like Clarett and Phillips, with issues with the law where they're acting like thugs, are in a different "class" to me than a guy who's doing things that are on the edge of what the NCAA allows and are totally legal.

ChampionTexan
05-02-2012, 10:59 AM
Right after you provide examples of players who have had these type of character concerns where those concerns being overlooked did not come back to bite the NFL team.



I already stated them.

I already provided Andre's name, Reggies Bush had similar type issues at USC, and while his career hasn't been stellar, his character concerns have never caused a problem. In the NBA, I believe Chris Weber had a issue with accepting booster payments outside of NCAA rules, and I'm not aware of any problems for any of his NBA teams as a result of these character concerns. Derek Rose had some allegations related to his time at (or prior to) Memphis, and unless character concerns cause torn ACL's, I'm not aware of problems with him.

Terelle Pryor was involved in the same tattoo scandal that Posey was, and I'm not aware of any problems that exist in Oakland because of those character concern.

Your turn.

ChampionTexan
05-02-2012, 11:01 AM
And that's really where the problem comes in: "TYPE" of character concerns.

NCAA rules violations get lumped together but there are really whole different sets of them: money issues, PED issues, drug issues, and I have a feeling there are probably more sorts of categories and types I'm not remembering.

I don't know if I even know where to search or what to search for to find out these things.

Eric Dickerson was involved in a play for pay scandal, right? Cush had PED issues, although they were never proved.

Maurice Clarett? He had all sorts of legal issues.

Lawrence Phillips... more legal issues.

But I don't have an exhaustive list, so I can't say for sure.

Guys like Clarett and Phillips, with issues with the law where they're acting like thugs, are in a different "class" to me than a guy who's doing things that are on the edge of what the NCAA allows and are totally legal.

And that's why I specified that issues of violence or self destruction are completely valid, but we have no reason to believe those type of concerns exist with Posey.

Edit: I actually thought about using James and Dickerson as examples in my previous post, but to the best of my knowledge, there is neither proof nor any sort of confession that either accepted cash - even though it's generally assumed they did.

Errant Hothy
05-02-2012, 11:20 AM
Funny how differently we look at those who get caught (Posey), accused (Cam Newton) and those who are never accsued or caught (a fair number of players who enter the NFL).

Breaking NCAA rules does not, and should never, equate to breaking the law.

HOU-TEX
05-02-2012, 11:27 AM
Funny how differently we look at those who get caught (Posey), accused (Cam Newton) and those who are never accsued or caught (a fair number of players who enter the NFL).

Breaking NCAA rules does not, and should never, equate to breaking the law.

You change your user name?

Errant Hothy
05-02-2012, 11:29 AM
You change your user name?

Yeah, felt weird with the "-Boy" section at 33. It worked when I was 14 and mainly posting on Star Wars/Sci-fi boards...now not so much.

GP
05-02-2012, 03:27 PM
How does a big time weapon @ WR become a hidden gem, the NCAA.

This is one of my favorite videos of DeVier. Big body, physical, like his body lean in & out of breaks along with excellent use of hands this is how you create separation throughout route tree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4cabr5OT7o

With the exception of that first catch, the other plays I saw on that clip he'd get called for offensive pass interference every time. Too much hand fighting early in the play and at the end of the play just before the ball gets there, IMO.

But yeah...he really drives out of the snap and has crisp footwork from start to finish.

Perki-Perk
05-02-2012, 04:09 PM
There are speed limit signs posted, and I doubt any of you have NEVER went over the speed limit.

Turn signal, most people I see don't even know what that is.

Ever tried to beat a yellow light and it turned red while you were still in the intersection?

Ever posted on TT while you were at work? How does your boss feel about that?

Also, that little tag on the mattress, how many of you still have it on there?


Take the plank out of your own eye, as it were.

Bunch of "Rule breakers" with "character flaws". The LOT of you!! :kitten:

GP
05-02-2012, 04:17 PM
Ok, enough already with the whole "is what he did really TRULY bad character or not" angle.

All I care about is this: Is a player's mindset in the right place? Is he a guy who just shows up and gets his work done...or does he brainfart and engage in shenanigans (no matter how trivial it might be to some people) that cause him to be scrutinized in negative ways?

The Arian Foster tweet-a-thon saga last Aug/Sept is an example of that. Is what the guy does GOOD overall or is it a distraction?

Missing 10 games of your senior season is NOT a good thing, overall, in terms of being able to judge his 2011 season against prior years of play. Plus, is it an indication that he gets distracted and drifts from the main objective of being a great football player? Will this guy miss meetings because he runs some side business on the side? Will his mind be on the underground Pokemon games he's organizing in vacant warehouses throughout the Houston area? It's something I want to know. Will this guy be 100% all about the game, or will he brain fart and love others things (like tattoos or selling vacation packages, etc.).

I think it's a fair question. Is this a guy who works angles all the time?

The Pencil Neck
05-02-2012, 04:20 PM
Ok, enough already with the whole "is what he did really TRULY bad character or not" angle.

All I care about is this: Is a player's mindset in the right place? Is he a guy who just shows up and gets his work done...or does he brainfart and engage in shenanigans (no matter how trivial it might be to some people) that cause him to be scrutinized in negative ways?

The Arian Foster tweet-a-thon saga last Aug/Sept is an example of that. Is what the guy does GOOD overall or is it a distraction?

Missing 10 games of your senior season is NOT a good thing, overall, in terms of being able to judge his 2011 season against prior years of play. Plus, is it an indication that he gets distracted and drifts from the main objective of being a great football player? Will this guy miss meetings because he runs some side business on the side? Will his mind be on the underground Pokemon games he's organizing in vacant warehouses throughout the Houston area? It's something I want to know. Will this guy be 100% all about the game, or will he brain fart and love others things (like tattoos or selling vacation packages, etc.).

I think it's a fair question. Is this a guy who works angles all the time?

Let me put it this way, this is a guy who was suspended for 10 games and still showed up for all the meetings and practiced just as if he was playing. He's a guy who did anything he could to help the team win and not be a distraction.

At least, that's what I've heard several people say.

And that's why this whole "rulebreaking" thing becomes a non-issue.

Rey
05-02-2012, 04:22 PM
Ok, enough already with the whole "is what he did really TRULY bad character or not" angle.

All I care about is this: Is a player's mindset in the right place? Is he a guy who just shows up and gets his work done...or does he brainfart and engage in shenanigans (no matter how trivial it might be to some people) that cause him to be scrutinized in negative ways?

The Arian Foster tweet-a-thon saga last Aug/Sept is an example of that. Is what the guy does GOOD overall or is it a distraction?

Missing 10 games of your senior season is NOT a good thing, overall, in terms of being able to judge his 2011 season against prior years of play. Plus, is it an indication that he gets distracted and drifts from the main objective of being a great football player? Will this guy miss meetings because he runs some side business on the side? Will his mind be on the underground Pokemon games he's organizing in vacant warehouses throughout the Houston area? It's something I want to know. Will this guy be 100% all about the game, or will he brain fart and love others things (like tattoos or selling vacation packages, etc.).

I think it's a fair question. Is this a guy who works angles all the time?

He's human, so no he's not going to be 100% football all the time.

I don't see what's wrong with guys having other passions. As long as it doesn't distract them from performing when they are at work then I don't see what the problem is.

I haven't seen anything that suggests that he isn't commited to the game of football. As a matter fact I heard on the radio that some from the coaching staff were saying that passion was the theme for this draft. They wanted to get guys that were passionate about football.

drunkcookie
05-02-2012, 04:26 PM
How does a big time weapon @ WR become a hidden gem, the NCAA.

This is one of my favorite videos of DeVier. Big body, physical, like his body lean in & out of breaks along with excellent use of hands this is how you create separation throughout route tree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4cabr5OT7o

With the exception of that first catch, the other plays I saw on that clip he'd get called for offensive pass interference every time. Too much hand fighting early in the play and at the end of the play just before the ball gets there, IMO.



I'll give you the third play (barely...i'm 50/50 on it) , but the 2nd play is a prime example of almost every encounter between a WR and DB in that situation, and most are no-calls... DB puts hand on shoulder, WR slaps it away, DB taps, WR taps back... That is rarely called and if so earns a "Baad caallll... come on, Ref, let the boys play" from the color guy...

Errant Hothy
05-02-2012, 04:28 PM
Let me put it this way, this is a guy who was suspended for 10 games and still showed up for all the meetings and practiced just as if he was playing. He's a guy who did anything he could to help the team win and not be a distraction.

At least, that's what I've heard several people say.

And that's why this whole "rulebreaking" thing becomes a non-issue.

And finished off his degree at the same time.

chenjy9
05-02-2012, 04:51 PM
Ok, enough already with the whole "is what he did really TRULY bad character or not" angle.

All I care about is this: Is a player's mindset in the right place? Is he a guy who just shows up and gets his work done...or does he brainfart and engage in shenanigans (no matter how trivial it might be to some people) that cause him to be scrutinized in negative ways?

The Arian Foster tweet-a-thon saga last Aug/Sept is an example of that. Is what the guy does GOOD overall or is it a distraction?

Missing 10 games of your senior season is NOT a good thing, overall, in terms of being able to judge his 2011 season against prior years of play. Plus, is it an indication that he gets distracted and drifts from the main objective of being a great football player? Will this guy miss meetings because he runs some side business on the side? Will his mind be on the underground Pokemon games he's organizing in vacant warehouses throughout the Houston area? It's something I want to know. Will this guy be 100% all about the game, or will he brain fart and love others things (like tattoos or selling vacation packages, etc.).

I think it's a fair question. Is this a guy who works angles all the time?

I see it this way. First time he sold his stuff to get help keep his mom's lights on and get a discount on tattoos as well. I don't see anything wrong with that regardless of whether or not it's against NCAA rules or not. If I need to sell a ring to help out my parents with their bills, that ring is gone, to hell with NCAA rules. College football is a couple of years of his life. Commitment to family runs deeper. 2nd suspension was not even his fault. They provided proper legal paperwork, NCAA simply ignored it.

Wolf
05-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Let me put it this way, this is a guy who was suspended for 10 games and still showed up for all the meetings and practiced just as if he was playing. He's a guy who did anything he could to help the team win and not be a distraction.

At least, that's what I've heard several people say.

And that's why this whole "rulebreaking" thing becomes a non-issue.

Exactly and what the Texans were saying also

GP
05-02-2012, 09:25 PM
Let me put it this way, this is a guy who was suspended for 10 games and still showed up for all the meetings and practiced just as if he was playing. He's a guy who did anything he could to help the team win and not be a distraction.

At least, that's what I've heard several people say.

And that's why this whole "rulebreaking" thing becomes a non-issue.

He's human, so no he's not going to be 100% football all the time.

I don't see what's wrong with guys having other passions. As long as it doesn't distract them from performing when they are at work then I don't see what the problem is.

I haven't seen anything that suggests that he isn't commited to the game of football. As a matter fact I heard on the radio that some from the coaching staff were saying that passion was the theme for this draft. They wanted to get guys that were passionate about football.

I see it this way. First time he sold his stuff to get help keep his mom's lights on and get a discount on tattoos as well. I don't see anything wrong with that regardless of whether or not it's against NCAA rules or not. If I need to sell a ring to help out my parents with their bills, that ring is gone, to hell with NCAA rules. College football is a couple of years of his life. Commitment to family runs deeper. 2nd suspension was not even his fault. They provided proper legal paperwork, NCAA simply ignored it.

I'm just saying that I am not a "ends justify the means" type of guy. If you tweak your decision making for x, then you will change your decision making when situation y rolls around. And then situation x, too.

I will admit that the Texans did their homework, and I don't know what the Texans know...so therefore, they must feel pretty confident that he's contrite and the problems he had were not indicative of future problems he'd have in the NFL with any team he'd be playing for.

I just have 3rd round WRs (under Kubiak's era) on such a short leash due to the majorly long, drawn-out saga of Jacoby Jones that just ended this week. I was pretty harsh about Matt Schaub's first two years, as well, due to the David Carr saga as well. I just want this WR stuff to get settled and for our offense to be truly elite and not just all about what our TE and Arian Foster can do for us.

2012 has to be better than 2011. The QB play has to be better, the WR play has to be more dynamic and high-octane, everything has to be better. I am guilty of thinking Posey is not a WR2 and maybe barely a WR3 as it stands today. My opinion/stance is softening a little, so I want people to know I'm not dead-set against him...just apprehensive in terms of crowning the guy yet.

chenjy9
05-02-2012, 09:58 PM
I'm just saying that I am not a "ends justify the means" type of guy. If you tweak your decision making for x, then you will change your decision making when situation y rolls around. And then situation x, too.

I will admit that the Texans did their homework, and I don't know what the Texans know...so therefore, they must feel pretty confident that he's contrite and the problems he had were not indicative of future problems he'd have in the NFL with any team he'd be playing for.

I just have 3rd round WRs (under Kubiak's era) on such a short leash due to the majorly long, drawn-out saga of Jacoby Jones that just ended this week. I was pretty harsh about Matt Schaub's first two years, as well, due to the David Carr saga as well. I just want this WR stuff to get settled and for our offense to be truly elite and not just all about what our TE and Arian Foster can do for us.

2012 has to be better than 2011. The QB play has to be better, the WR play has to be more dynamic and high-octane, everything has to be better. I am guilty of thinking Posey is not a WR2 and maybe barely a WR3 as it stands today. My opinion/stance is softening a little, so I want people to know I'm not dead-set against him...just apprehensive in terms of crowning the guy yet.

I can definitely see where you are coming from. I see the world as more shades of grey and therefore a more "flexible" set or moral guidelines I suspect. Either way, after the JJ fiasco I can definitely understand your wariness at this unanticipated pick. I promise you though, he is a smart and effective player. He may not be quite the physical specimen, but he definitely knows how to play his strengths a lot better. I can also promise you Posey knows how to run in a forward direction. :jogger:

drs23
05-02-2012, 10:42 PM
With the exception of that first catch, the other plays I saw on that clip he'd get called for offensive pass interference every time. Too much hand fighting early in the play and at the end of the play just before the ball gets there, IMO.

But yeah...he really drives out of the snap and has crisp footwork from start to finish.

Kinda reminded me of the 'ol days. I liked it, but your right GP, laundry city in the NFL.

GP
05-03-2012, 12:09 AM
Kinda reminded me of the 'ol days. I liked it, but your right GP, laundry city in the NFL.

Yep: That was the old days, but the refs these days are all over that stuff.

And we know how awful the officiating crews are these days. There is only a handful of crews who will let that stuff go and let them play. Most of them, and I'm talking about Hochuli and Triplett's crews at the top of that heap, they are FLAG HAPPY bastids.

GP
05-03-2012, 12:12 AM
I can definitely see where you are coming from. I see the world as more shades of grey and therefore a more "flexible" set or moral guidelines I suspect. Either way, after the JJ fiasco I can definitely understand your wariness at this unanticipated pick. I promise you though, he is a smart and effective player. He may not be quite the physical specimen, but he definitely knows how to play his strengths a lot better. I can also promise you Posey knows how to run in a forward direction. :jogger:

LOL. I can get used to seeing a WR run forward. JJ was so erratic, he's the only guy who could run 80 yards and gain 3 yards out of it.

I still cannot believe Kubiak and Marciano kept him out there returning punts in the Ravens playoff game after he muffed the one punt that cost us. I still to this day do not understand how "coach's loyalty" should extend THAT far to his players. It was a really big WTH? strategy to me.

drs23
05-03-2012, 09:34 AM
Yep: That was the old days, but the refs these days are all over that stuff.

And we know how awful the officiating crews are these days. There is only a handful of crews who will let that stuff go and let them play. Most of them, and I'm talking about Hochuli and Triplett's crews at the top of that heap, they are FLAG HAPPY bastids.

Don't remind me. The crews we had against Oakland and the divisional round against Baltimore made me wanna puke.

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2012, 10:29 AM
Saw this. Thought it was relevant...
Tressel on Posey. (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/05/02/jim-tressel-devier-poseys-character-should-not-be-questioned/)


Tressel says he was impressed with how Posey handled being suspended for all but the final three games of his senior season. Posey’s body of work in the previous three years was impressive enough he could have left school last fall and began preparing his mind and body for April’s NFL Draft.

But Posey remained in school and finished up his degree in communications. The consummate leader also stayed out on the football practice field with his teammates, working with the offensive scout team unit against the No.1 OSU defense while serving his suspension.

That certainly said a lot to Smith and Kubiak when they made their decision to draft Posey. It also meant a great deal to Tressel who by then was forced to watch from afar.

“He was playing scout team quarterback getting killed,” he said. “That’s because he’s a quality kid. He’s not going to run away from his hardships nor is he going to run away from a challenge.”

TexansFanatic
05-03-2012, 11:42 AM
Saw this. Thought it was relevant...
Tressel on Posey. (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/05/02/jim-tressel-devier-poseys-character-should-not-be-questioned/)

That's huge. Thanks for posting it.

TejasTom
05-03-2012, 01:22 PM
After what I've read, seen, and heard I'm OK with the Posey pick.

But similarly I was OK with the Brandon Harris pick...

I hope they both work out and I hope Posey earns his way on the field more than Harris did his rookie year.

Rey
05-04-2012, 11:34 AM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/43/435764.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/43/435749.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/43/435752.jpg

thunderkyss
05-06-2012, 08:14 PM
But similarly I was OK with the Brandon Harris pick...

I hope they both work out and I hope Posey earns his way on the field more than Harris did his rookie year.

After watching our secondary get blasted in 2010 & bringing in a new DB Coach & new DC, then only signing one quality corner in the off-season, I thought it would make sense to draft a talented CB on the first day. I had been eye-ball'n Harris as our 2nd round pick, got mad when they didn't draft him, then did a flip when we traded back into the second to snag him.

Remember also, I'm one of the guys who said Kareem played about as well as we should expect a rookie to play with the supporting cast around him.

But for Kareem to step up and show the improvement in his game that he did, that was a surprise. Same with Allen, 5 year vets generally don't get better, but he did. Same with Jjo. We had big expectations for him, but he played better than anytime in his career. & While Bryce McCain wasn't a lockdown corner, he was pretty damn close.

Now if they played & looked like they did in 2010 & Harris couldn't get on the field the way Molden couldn't get on the field, or Bennett, or Reeves in 2009... then I'd have questions.

Same thing with Posey. If Aj plays all 19 games in 2012 & KDub tries to get his money back & Lestar Jean looks like the good DeSean Jackson.. how do you expect Posey to get on the field? Kubiak plays his starters, regardless the score or situation.

GP
05-06-2012, 08:34 PM
Rey:

I really don't think posting Posey photos of him running track is the way to instill confidence around here on him being Jacoby's replacement.

I gave you imaginary neg rep for that. :foottap:

Allstar
05-06-2012, 09:21 PM
Rey:

I really don't think posting Posey photos of him running track is the way to instill confidence around here on him being Jacoby's replacement.

I gave you imaginary neg rep for that. :foottap:

Don't worry Rey, I just gave you imaginary positive rep to even it up :)

buddyboy
05-06-2012, 09:31 PM
LOL. I can get used to seeing a WR run forward. JJ was so erratic, he's the only guy who could run 80 yards and gain 3 yards out of it.

I still cannot believe Kubiak and Marciano kept him out there returning punts in the Ravens playoff game after he muffed the one punt that cost us. I still to this day do not understand how "coach's loyalty" should extend THAT far to his players. It was a really big WTH? strategy to me.

At first, my gut reaction was to question that too.

But then I realized, we as Texans fans don't have a WHOLE lot of experience of post-season TEXAN football. We've gotten used to a lot of turn-over, a lot of fluidity in the lineup. If a RB fumbles, it's not unusual for Gary to bench them for a quarter.

But, in the playoffs, I think you have to go with the person who you've gone with in the season. To see a player make a mistake in a game with that much weight and overreact is the kind of thing that causes more mistakes.

It riled me up to see Jacoby still out there returning punts after his huge mistake and after his track record of unreliability. But in the playoffs, I think you don't mess with what got you there.

Rey
05-06-2012, 11:19 PM
Jacoby bobbled the very next punt return. It was hard to watch.

Allstar
05-07-2012, 12:27 AM
Kubiak pulled Foster in the Bengals game after he fumbled. Obviously that didn't last long...

badboy
05-07-2012, 10:13 PM
Don't worry Rey, I just gave you imaginary positive rep to even it up :)is this anything like my imaginary girlfriend?

Rey
05-07-2012, 10:21 PM
Gp, all star and bad boy, you guys filled me with imaginary laughter and if we ever meet I'll keep the imaginary beers flowing all night!

Lol, jk.

I could only spare one imaginary beer.

badboy
05-07-2012, 10:24 PM
Saw this. Thought it was relevant...
Tressel on Posey. (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/05/02/jim-tressel-devier-poseys-character-should-not-be-questioned/)So I'm supposed to listen to a coach that tried to cover it up and lied to his employers? I am more concerned about the way Posey agreed to take his name off the party ad & then put it back on anyway. Seems like he is going to do what he wants rather be the "face adversity head on" guy the article states he is.

Rey
05-07-2012, 10:27 PM
So I'm supposed to listen to a coach that tried to cover it up and lied to his employers? I am more concerned about the way Posey agreed to take his name off the party ad & then put it back on anyway. Seems like he is going to do what he wants rather be the "face adversity head on" guy the article states he is.

I thought the same thing about tressel, but are you mixing posey and jones together?

Or did posey also do that?

badboy
05-07-2012, 10:28 PM
Gp, all star and bad boy, you guys filled me with imaginary laughter and if we ever meet I'll keep the imaginary beers flowing all night!

Lol, jk.

I could only spare one imaginary beer.well don't mean to pick on you but if you'd give up that imaginary job.....

JCTexan
05-07-2012, 10:29 PM
So I'm supposed to listen to a coach that tried to cover it up and lied to his employers? I am more concerned about the way Posey agreed to take his name off the party ad & then put it back on anyway. Seems like he is going to do what he wants rather be the "face adversity head on" guy the article states he is.

I believe you're confusing Devier Posey with Dwight Jones.

Rey
05-07-2012, 10:31 PM
well don't mean to pick on you but if you'd give up that imaginary job.....

Haha...nah the job is real otherwise the very real wife would be not imaginary upset.

Texn4life
05-07-2012, 10:57 PM
The more I watch of Posey the more I'm encouraged. He runs really smooth and crisp routes. That bodes well in the type of offense we run. The key to him adjusting is going to be his football IQ. Everyone can kind of agree that Jacoby just fell flat in this area. I can see him being on the field as WR2 about midway of the season.

It really stinks how the new CBA limits the amount of workouts and camps in the off-season so I'm curious to see how the rookies adapt. It didn't seem to hurt many guys after last year's lockout though. Although I would like to add a guy like Braylon Edwards, I can see us going into the season with AJ, KW, and the kids.

The Pencil Neck
05-08-2012, 02:22 AM
So I'm supposed to listen to a coach that tried to cover it up and lied to his employers? I am more concerned about the way Posey agreed to take his name off the party ad & then put it back on anyway. Seems like he is going to do what he wants rather be the "face adversity head on" guy the article states he is.

Like others have said, you're confusing Posey's "character" issues with Dwight Jones' character issues.

Posey is the guy who sold his own personal ring so his mother could keep her electricity on. He got 5 games for that. Then he worked his job and got paid the union rate. And he got 5 games for that because the union rate for the job was more than the NCAA allowed.

And during those 10 games, he played the scout team QB and continued to work with the team.

TejasTom
05-08-2012, 10:09 AM
And during those 10 games, he played the scout team QB and continued to work with the team.

Posey on an end-adens throws to Jean for a touch down.

76Texan
05-08-2012, 01:07 PM
The more I watch of Posey the more I'm encouraged. He runs really smooth and crisp routes. That bodes well in the type of offense we run. The key to him adjusting is going to be his football IQ. Everyone can kind of agree that Jacoby just fell flat in this area. I can see him being on the field as WR2 about midway of the season.

It really stinks how the new CBA limits the amount of workouts and camps in the off-season so I'm curious to see how the rookies adapt. It didn't seem to hurt many guys after last year's lockout though. Although I would like to add a guy like Braylon Edwards, I can see us going into the season with AJ, KW, and the kids.

That's what I like about Posey.

76Texan
05-08-2012, 01:08 PM
Like others have said, you're confusing Posey's "character" issues with Dwight Jones' character issues.

Posey is the guy who sold his own personal ring so his mother could keep her electricity on. He got 5 games for that. Then he worked his job and got paid the union rate. And he got 5 games for that because the union rate for the job was more than the NCAA allowed.

And during those 10 games, he played the scout team QB and continued to work with the team.

badboy has been watching too much footbal, it's easy to confuse one guy from another; heck, a lot of the receivers in this draft class look similar to one another! :spin:

Playoffs
05-08-2012, 01:57 PM
It really stinks how the new CBA limits the amount of workouts and camps in the off-season so I'm curious to see how the rookies adapt...Larry Fitzgerald sponsors a WR camp that I think Cris Carter & Jerry Rice help with. I can't recall if any of our draft picks have attended before ... I wonder why???

Seems like you'd want your rookies to spend some time with those greats ... ?

ChampionTexan
05-08-2012, 02:17 PM
I can't recall if any of our draft picks have attended before ... I wonder why???



Have you suffered multiple concussions?

Playoffs
05-08-2012, 03:23 PM
Have you suffered multiple concussions?Daim bramage.

I may or may not have already posted this cutup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEkBl91EJsk

ArlingtonTexan
05-08-2012, 05:54 PM
Larry Fitzgerald sponsors a WR camp that I think Cris Carter & Jerry Rice help with. I can't recall if any of our draft picks have attended before ... I wonder why???

Seems like you'd want your rookies to spend some time with those greats ... ?

No even moderately high WR pick since Jacoby Jones down?

Playoffs
05-08-2012, 06:13 PM
No even moderately high WR pick since Jacoby Jones down?I don't know ... I've never read mention of our guys going to Fitz's camp & wondered why we wouldn't encourage that.

TejasTom
05-10-2012, 08:00 PM
Interview on 1560 this morning: audio (http://www.1560thegame.com/audio/new-texans-wr-devier-posey-told-us-during-t-time-he-missed-his-senior-year-all-he-thought-about-was-not-being-able-to-compete-4998/)

drs23
05-10-2012, 10:12 PM
Interview on 1560 this morning: audio (http://www.1560thegame.com/audio/new-texans-wr-devier-posey-told-us-during-t-time-he-missed-his-senior-year-all-he-thought-about-was-not-being-able-to-compete-4998/)

Thanks for posting. DeVier is a damn good interview and really sharp. I was impressed his "cerebral approach" to the game.

Can't wait to learn from Andre. Imagine that?

Playoffs
05-10-2012, 11:37 PM
Very intelligent. Not going to be overwhelmed by the NFL.

GP
05-11-2012, 09:57 AM
Here's an SI.com article on Posey (http://nfl.si.com/2012/05/04/boom-or-bust-should-the-texans-count-on-devier-posey/), specifically the Texans' choice of him, and a few screen shots that they analyzed.

Pretty decent article. Here's an excerpt:

The 6-foot-2, 211-pound Posey has a high quota of playmaking ability and, if he’s single-covered while teams pay attention to Johnson, looks like he can find some seams. The play below comes from Ohio State’s win over Miami in 2010, with Pryor at QB.

Posey ran a pretty simple corner route, but in the process managed to both beat the press coverage on the line and accelerate into space beyond the deep safety.

http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/posey-1.jpg

And...

http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/posey-5.png

Posey’s there with space, but Pryor’s throw sailed a bit. Worse yet, for our specific study, Posey short-armed his catch attempt, no doubt hearing the footsteps from the closing safety.

That’s an issue that comes up again and again with Posey. He’ll go over the middle, he might even make some catches in traffic — he scored against Indiana in 2009 on a play similar to this one, where he plucked the ball and secured it before being rocked at the goal line. But he’ll drop some passes that he shouldn’t and he will shy from contact at times.

There were two examples of that from Ohio State’s 2010 opener against Marshall. Posey scored twice in that game, so this all emphasizes his up-and-down performances. In the second quarter, on a deep ball from Pryor, Posey kept floating long, allowing Marshall’s safety to slip underneath him and bat a pass away. Then, to open the fourth, Posey sat down against zone coverage and Pryor hit him in the numbers — Posey flat-out dropped it.

Houston will hope for more consistency from Posey as an NFL rookie. Will the Texans get it?

Vinny
05-11-2012, 09:59 AM
Here's an SI.com article on Posey (http://nfl.si.com/2012/05/04/boom-or-bust-should-the-texans-count-on-devier-posey/), specifically the Texans' choice of him, and a few screen shots that they analyzed.

Pretty decent article. Here's an excerpt:
no long speed and afraid of the middle of the field is his downside. Nice.

badboy
05-11-2012, 10:10 AM
I believe you're confusing Devier Posey with Dwight Jones.My apologies to board as I stand corrected. I did think it was Posey with the party/name issues. Thanks for heads up.

beerlover
05-11-2012, 10:36 AM
no long speed and afraid of the middle of the field is his downside. Nice.

Classic darkhorse. under the radar/studied among 2012 WR class. what Kubiak likes is his ability to create separation in & out of breaks. DeVier possess the upside needed to succeed in the NFL making him a great value with a mid 3rd rd. pick. Posey killed the Ducks in 2010 Rose Bowl he could not be covered, caught everything thrown to him 8 receptions 101 yards, 12.6 yards per catch & game winning TD. He is the type of receiver who excels in the redzone, combination of creating space & awareness, knowing how to help the QB. Toughness over the middle is one reason they took Martin, who is more of a slot WR, in 4th also great value considering he will return kicks as well. :wesmantexanfan:

76Texan
05-11-2012, 12:30 PM
Here's an SI.com article on Posey (http://nfl.si.com/2012/05/04/boom-or-bust-should-the-texans-count-on-devier-posey/), specifically the Texans' choice of him, and a few screen shots that they analyzed.

Pretty decent article. Here's an excerpt:



And...

I'll tell ya' ... these writers (Chris Burke, in this instance)... they like to find fault and something to write about, at times they just don't watch enough tapes and/or don't watch it closely enough - understandable, as they had to write about a lot of different players, they skimmed through the tapes.

In doing so, they did themselves a disservice.

Burke got several things wrong:
- Route running is Posey's strong suite.
- Catching the ball in traffic is not a bad part of his game.

Think about it... A guy with no deep speed that can't run route and is afraid of going in the middle... Would there be a team stupid enough to draft such a guy in the third round?

I can get to the specific play(s) when I have some time, but I don't think it's really necessary.

Rey
05-11-2012, 01:11 PM
I'll tell ya' ... these writers (Chris Burke, in this instance)... they like to find fault and something to write about, at times they just don't watch enough tapes and/or don't watch it closely enough - understandable, as they had to write about a lot of different players, they skimmed through the tapes.

In doing so, they did themselves a disservice.

Burke got several things wrong:
- Route running is Posey's strong suite.
- Catching the ball in traffic is not a bad part of his game.

Think about it... A guy with no deep speed that can't run route and is afraid of going in the middle... Would there be a team stupid enough to draft such a guy in the third round?

I can get to the specific play(s) when I have some time, but I don't think it's really necessary.

I agree, but to be fair I don't think he was saying that is who Posey is but rather he has shown a tendency to do those things.

And I don't even know if it's a tendency really. Just a couple of not so great moments.

But I agree with your point that he has shown the ability to do those things more than he has shown to not do them.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how he adjusts to the NFL.

Texn4life
05-12-2012, 04:03 AM
Very Nice breakdown of Posey's Game (http://nfl.si.com/2012/05/04/boom-or-bust-should-the-texans-count-on-devier-posey/)

Click on the link for a 76 style breakdown. While I don't agree with a few things he said, I think a lot of people are just unsure of what to make of Posey. Having a true QB throwing the ball to him will improve his game drastically I believe though.

In the Seinfeld episode “The Soul Mate,” George tries to prove that there’s a massive conspiracy against him at his deceased wife’s charitable foundation. At one point, he gives an enthusiastic speech to Jerry about the situation and closes by stating, “That’s what we know.”

Jerry replies, “But we already knew that!”

And that, in a nutshell, is where we are with DeVier Posey. You want to study his game, learn what type of player he is? Well, then you may as well pull out the film from 2009 or ’10, or check out what people had to say when it looked like he might enter the supplemental draft last summer.

We really don’t have any new information regarding Posey as a player, since he was suspended for the first 10 games of his senior season because of his involvement in the Ohio State off-field scandal that took down Jim Tressel.

Upon his return to the lineup in 2011, Posey caught 12 passes in three games.

So, we have to dip a little deeper into the tape to find out what the Houston Texans added with the 68th pick in the draft. The Texans needed to find some depth at wide receiver, especially after stumbling without Andre Johnson in the lineup last season.

Is Posey capable of being a go-to guy for the Texans? It might be awhile until there’s an answer.

Even in diving back to Posey’s previous seasons, it’s important to remember that he had Terrelle Pryor throwing to him, so his numbers (6o catches in 2009, 53 in 2010) certainly were not aided by that fact.

There’s a pretty wide variance in Posey’s game, too, with a lot of good mingling with some obvious bad to create an uncertain picture. We’ll open on the glass half-full side of things …

The 6-foot-2, 211-pound Posey has a high quota of playmaking ability and, if he’s single-covered while teams pay attention to Johnson, looks like he can find some seams. The play below comes from Ohio State’s win over Miami in 2010, with Pryor at QB.

TejasTom
05-12-2012, 07:42 AM
NFL Draft Player Spotlight- DeVier Posey
Byron Lambert, Rosterwatch.com

NFL Comparison:

Brandon LaFell, Steve Breaston, Nate Burleson, Kevin Walter, Mohamed Massaquoi


Senior Bowl Spotlight (http://rosterwatch.com/?p=1758)

So we are replacing Kevin Walter with...well...Kevin Walter....

Lucky
05-12-2012, 08:07 AM
NFL Comparison:
Brandon LaFell, Steve Breaston, Nate Burleson, Kevin Walter, Mohamed Massaquoi Posey compares to Steve Breaston and Kevin Walter? Breaston is a reed-thin slot receiver. Walter is 225lb possession receiver who is instrumental in the run game. Which one is Posey?

Internet scouts....

76Texan
05-12-2012, 10:53 AM
The problem is the writer sometimes describes the play all wrong; therefore, the conclusion he drew from that play is incorrect.

Start with the "not so good" part, Chris Burke brought up a play in the Sugar Bowl as followed:

"It’s a good start to the play, with Posey beating tight coverage at the line and getting inside the corner covering him. However, that corner had deep safety help, which means Posey and Pryor had to run everything to perfection to complete a slant pattern.
That’s not quite what happened.
Posey’s there with space, but Pryor’s throw sailed a bit. Worse yet, for our specific study, Posey short-armed his catch attempt, no doubt hearing the footsteps from the closing safety.
That’s an issue that comes up again and again with Posey. He’ll go over the middle, he might even make some catches in traffic — he scored against Indiana in 2009 on a play similar to this one, where he plucked the ball and secured it before being rocked at the goal line. But he’ll drop some passes that he shouldn’t and he will shy from contact at times."
......

That was not what happened, Burke!

Posey lined up a couple yards outside the numbers.
The Buckeyes ran a 4-vertical pattern with Posey the lone receiver on the right; the Razorbacks were in man coverage with a single deep safety.

Posey ran a seam route (not a slant).
He opened up the CB by faking an outside release and beat him to the inside.

Posey started to look for the ball around the 15yd-mark from the LOS.
This is where the ball should have been aimed at; somewhere between 15-18 yards to avoid the safety.

However, the ball sailed high as it was thrown to 22-23 yards.

Pryor locked onto his target too soon; he never moved the safety with his eyes; this allowed the safety to converge quickly.

Remember that it was a 4-vertical against a single deep safety.
All Pryor had to do is to look straight downfield (he didn't) at the safety to hold him there for a little bit.

Or failing that, he could have just thrown the ball a couple of yards shorter and Posey would have had an easy catch.

The ball sailed high; Posey reached out with one hand, but it was just too far away.

I don't get how Burke can say that Posey "short-armed" his catch attempt on an overthrown ball.

http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/posey-5.png

He even chose the "best" camera angle to try to fool people into believing his point.
And with that he concluded that Posey short-armed it because he was "no doubt" hearing footsteps from the closing safety.

No Burke, the guy who needs more consistency is you! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

TejasTom
05-12-2012, 12:15 PM
Great analysis 76T.

Playoffs
05-12-2012, 01:10 PM
That was not what happened, Burke!
...
No Burke, the guy who needs more consistency is you! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gifExactly, rack him! MSR Gotta do a more credible job with SI.

Here's the play cued up & slow-mo: http://youtu.be/xEkBl91EJsk?t=3m54s If Burke had just listened to the commentator he'd have done a better job.

Pryor locked onto his target too soon; he never moved the safety with his eyes; this allowed the safety to converge quickly.That's the one thing that jumped out at me more than anything watching these older cutups -- Pryor locks on worse than even Leinart, imo. It's like there's always only one WR in pattern. Makes a receiver's job a lot tougher.

Texn4life
05-12-2012, 02:01 PM
Exactly, rack him! MSR Gotta do a more credible job with SI.

Here's the play cued up & slow-mo: http://youtu.be/xEkBl91EJsk?t=3m54s If Burke had just listened to the commentator he'd have done a better job.

That's the one thing that jumped out at me more than anything watching these older cutups -- Pryor locks on worse than even Leinart, imo. It's like there's always only one WR in pattern. Makes a receiver's job a lot tougher.


Exactly! 76 did a much better job than saying what I disagreed with than I would have done. The thing about playing with inconsistent QB's who move around a lot is it sometimes gets receivers into some bad habits. Burke said that Posey isn't a good route runner, but that's just not true in my opinion. When you have an inaccurate QB who scrambles a lot you're not going to be used to the ball being delivered on time consistently.

That's why I'm excited to see what he's going to do in this offense. He won't have that problem here of worrying about QB's moving around and can simply play within the system. I've also seen him make some tough catches where he took big shots so I'm not worried about him shying away from contact either.

False Start
05-19-2012, 03:53 PM
Here he is at an autograph signing (I guess?) in his uni. Damn, that collar! :littlelol:

http://jetsrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Screen-Shot-2012-05-19-at-12.52.18-PM-500x373.png

Edit:

Another pic

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg740/scaled.php?tn=0&server=740&filename=y2cmd.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Premier
05-19-2012, 08:41 PM
no long speed and afraid of the middle of the field is his downside. Nice.

just like arian fosters lack of speed and poor vision..

TexanCR
05-19-2012, 08:45 PM
Great finding "False Start"! Nice to see him and put a Texans picture on this guy. Hopefully he will pan out, however Im affraid that I will always measure him againts Rueben Randle since we past on him to get Posey.

Time will tell.

Playoffs
05-21-2012, 07:28 PM
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/wp-content/blogs.dir/2348/files/texans-otas/20120521_texans-otas_btc_16.jpghttp://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/wp-content/blogs.dir/2348/files/texans-otas/3.jpg

Blake
05-22-2012, 03:32 PM
just like arian fosters lack of speed and poor vision..

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8DCaoPfWN3dvkF6vgP5U86wr-W2_mveTAkkAJ8oWUv49x7VR6JP8gqYGg

pec0sb0b
05-22-2012, 04:52 PM
Posey is working with the threes right now. He’ll stay with the young group. I could tell of his progress last week, my initial reaction was very good. I think the more information we gave him toward the end of the week, obviously they bog down a little bit. He’s got a lot of ability. He just needs the reps, so we’ll take it a day at a time. - Kubiak at Monday OTAs

Sounds like he has a ways to go.

drs23
05-22-2012, 09:34 PM
Sounds like he has a ways to go.

A rookie who played three games last year in college, on the second day of OTAs ?

Surely you jest? :D

badboy
05-22-2012, 09:55 PM
Sounds like he has a ways to go.not if we can find him a "bog" to play in.

b0ng
05-22-2012, 10:26 PM
Sounds like he has a ways to go.

Interesting, I wonder who the 1's and 2's are with Johnson out.

The Pencil Neck
05-22-2012, 10:43 PM
Interesting, I wonder who the 1's and 2's are with Johnson out.

I'd imagine guys with experience in the system would currently be ranked highest: KW, Lestar Jean (1s) and then Juaquin Iglesias, Jeff Maehl (2s), and then Posey and Martin (3s), and then Jones, Holliday, and Jackson in no particular order.

b0ng
05-23-2012, 03:21 PM
I'd imagine guys with experience in the system would currently be ranked highest: KW, Lestar Jean (1s) and then Juaquin Iglesias, Jeff Maehl (2s), and then Posey and Martin (3s), and then Jones, Holliday, and Jackson in no particular order.

Well if DeVier Posey cannot beat out Jeff Maehle or Juaquin Iglesias then this will be a really bad pick. Same probably goes for Keshawn Martin.

Texn4life
05-23-2012, 03:30 PM
Well if DeVier Posey cannot beat out Jeff Maehle or Juaquin Iglesias then this will be a really bad pick. Same probably goes for Keshawn Martin.

With 2 days of OTAs it's normal to have the younger guys running with the younger guys while they learn the system. There is NO WAY that Posey enters camp not running with at least the 2's.

The Pencil Neck
05-23-2012, 04:54 PM
Well if DeVier Posey cannot beat out Jeff Maehle or Juaquin Iglesias then this will be a really bad pick. Same probably goes for Keshawn Martin.

My post wasn't about where they'll end up; my post is where they PROBABLY were when OTAs started. Until the rookies learn their routes, the guys that know the routes should have an advantage.

In a week, the whole list could be turned on its ear as guys learn the ropes and the offense and start to show what they can do.

drunkcookie
05-23-2012, 07:37 PM
Interesting, I wonder who the 1's and 2's are with Johnson out.

I wanna say it's Walter and Jean running together right now...

Premier
05-24-2012, 12:02 AM
Well if DeVier Posey cannot beat out Jeff Maehle or Juaquin Iglesias then this will be a really bad pick. Same probably goes for Keshawn Martin.

doubt maehl or iglesias stick around..

Rey
05-24-2012, 12:47 AM
I'd imagine guys with experience in the system would currently be ranked highest: KW, Lestar Jean (1s) and then Juaquin Iglesias, Jeff Maehl (2s), and then Posey and Martin (3s), and then Jones, Holliday, and Jackson in no particular order.

I think trindon is higher than you have him listed and no way is Iglesias ahead of the two draft picks. I doubt he even gets more reps in team drills.

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2012, 01:30 AM
I think trindon is higher than you have him listed and no way is Iglesias ahead of the two draft picks. I doubt he even gets more reps in team drills.

Judging from Kubes interview the other day, you're probably right about Trindon.

And I only expect Iglesias to be ahead of the rookies the first few days of practice until they get their feet under them. I expect the rooks to be the 2nd teamers within a week, especially K-Mart.

GP
05-24-2012, 02:01 AM
Well if DeVier Posey cannot beat out Jeff Maehle or Juaquin Iglesias then this will be a really bad pick. Same probably goes for Keshawn Martin.

Outside of KW, what WR has Kubiak identified and acquired that really has contributed much of anything? I can't think of a name.

The WR spot has to get better. If we don't find a gem out of the bunch we've got right now...then I think we're potentially in trouble this year.

At some point, the offense has to rely on the WRs more than it has recently. We're basically a flavor of two scoops of Arian Foster, a dash of Ben Tate, and a pinch of Name-That-Texans-TE.

IF guys like Posey, Jean, Martin, and even Dweeb Jones find ways to REALLY contribute...this team is unstoppable in 2012. If not, I hope nothing happens to Arian Foster.

Corrosion
05-24-2012, 03:44 AM
Outside of KW, what WR has Kubiak identified and acquired that really has contributed much of anything? I can't think of a name.



Outside of David Anderson (7th) , Jacoby Jones (3rd) and Trycycle Holliday (6th) and if you really wanna get technical Dorin Dickerson (7th) ..... What WR's has Kubiak drafted or traded for ??


The answer would be .... None.


To be fair to Kubiak , Jacoby Jones has all world talent .... Just no brain to go along with that talent. In his time with the Texans , Kubiak extracted as much as can be expected out Jones and his pea brain.

Anderson was solid if un-spectacular while with the Texans , making plays when given the opportunity.


They really havent had the luxury of drafting a WR high either .... Kubiak and Smith were saddled with a 2-14 team that was lacking of talent from the top of the roster to the bottom.
In fixing the rest of the roster , the WR position has been ignored .... yet we've seen the team produce back to back 4500 passing yard seasons with #80 , KW and <insert joke here> at WR .... and would likely have duplicated that last season if not for a series of injuries , their top two QB's out for 6 games and #80 missing 9 games , that would have broken lesser teams.

Rey
05-24-2012, 06:49 AM
Outside of David Anderson (7th) , Jacoby Jones (3rd) and Trycycle Holliday (6th) and if you really wanna get technical Dorin Dickerson (7th) ..... What WR's has Kubiak drafted or traded for ??


The answer would be .... None.

Technically we traded for mason last year.

ObsiWan
05-24-2012, 07:40 AM
Technically we traded for mason last year.

...and we gave Bryant Johnson (picked @ #17 by AZ in 2003) an extended "looksee" to see if he could help.

...he didn't.
and I wonder why that is... he was a decent 3rd option for the Cards behind Boldin and Fitz. Had a 45 catch year with the Niners... Seems like he should have been the guy to step up. Except Kubiak kept trying to make Jones into something he wasn't; a #1 WR.

TejasTom
05-24-2012, 07:41 AM
What WR's has Kubiak drafted or traded for ??

The answer would be .... None.


Technically we traded for mason last year.

I think there is an argument that you are both right, considering Mason's lack of production. Since he didn't have enough catches to trigger the conditional pick we got Mason for free.

Corrosion
05-24-2012, 08:41 AM
Technically we traded for mason last year.

The point is they have spent very few resources in the WR position since Kubiak took over .... Honestly they didnt do much to fill the position in the Capers / Casserly era either.

Here's a list of every WR drafted by the Texans - including the expansion draft.

Jermaine Lewis - 6th round of the expansion draft , originally drafted in the 5th round #153 in 1996 by Baltimore.

Avoin Black 16th round pick in the expansion draft , originally drafted in the 4th round #121 in 2000 by Buffalo

Jabar Gaffney 2nd round #33 in 2002.

Andre Johnson 1st round #3 in 2003

Sloan Thomas 7th round #211 in 2004

Jerome Mathis 4th round #114 in 2005

David Anderson 7th round #251 in 2006 - Kubiaks first draft.

Jacoby Jones 3rd round #72 in 2007

None in 2008

None in 2009

Trindon Holliday 6th round #197 in 2010
Dorin Dickerson 7th round #227 in 2010 - Technically a TE but they drafted him to play WR.

None in 2011

DeVier Posey 3rd round #68 in 2012
Keshawn Martin 4th round #121 in 2012


In Kubiaks first Six drafts he used two 7th rounders , a 6th and one premium pick at WR - that being Pea Brain in the 3rd round of 07.

Hard to say what he can and cant do with WR's when he hasnt really used any valuable resources on premium talent mainly because he was handed a roster lacking talent at so many positions.

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2012, 11:32 AM
The point is they have spent very few resources in the WR position since Kubiak took over .... Honestly they didnt do much to fill the position in the Capers / Casserly era either.

<snip>

Hard to say what he can and cant do with WR's when he hasnt really used any valuable resources on premium talent mainly because he was handed a roster lacking talent at so many positions.

This is a pretty good point.

Let's go back a bit further. People always talk about how Kubiak/Shanahan:
1) Don't normally draft linemen early because they have odd requirements for the ZBS.
2) Don't normally draft RBs early because the system works with guys that are available later

Do they do the same thing with WRs?

First off, who were the Bronco's receivers during Kubiak's time?

He inherited Anthony Miller (5'11", 190#), 1st round pick of the Chargers in 88) and Mike Pritchard (5'10#, 188#), 1st round pick of the Falcons in 1991. Those were his guys in 1995, his first year there. But he brought Ed McCaffrey from San Francisco (6'5#, 215#) who'd originally been drafted by the Giants in the 3rd round in 1991. McCaffrey became a fixture in Denver. Also in 1995, the Bronco's picked up an UDFA named Rod Smith (6', 200#) who would have an HOF career with Kubiak. He didn't start until his 3rd year with the team and then was a perennial pro bowler. Ed Kennison (6'1", 201#), a #1 pick by the Rams, took over for McCaffrey when he was injured in 2001. But McCaffrey eventually lost his pick to Denver 1st round pick, Ashley LeLie (6' 3", 200#). LeLie had a couple of very good seasons under Kubiak, the best being a 54 catch/1084 yard season. But the wheels fell off when Kubiak left. He bounced around and was never able to regain his form.

As to who the Bronco's drafted as WRs... it's a load of late round crap and even when they drafted in the early rounds, the guys were scrubs.

5 - Patrick Jeffers, 6'3", 217#, 5 year marginal career
1 - Marcus Nash, 6'3#, 195#, 1 year career and busted
3 - Travis McGriff, 5' 8#, 185#, 3 years and 5 receptions
6 - Chad Plummer, 6'3", 223#, 2 years and no stats
3 - Chris Cole, 6', 195#, 3 years, 12 catches
5 - Muneer Moore, didn't make it from Richmond
7 - Leroy Fields, didn't make it from Jackson State
6 - Kevin Kasper, 6'1", 197#, 5 years, marginal player
1 - Ashley Lelie, 6'3", 200#, 7 years and a starter
5 - Herb Haygood, 5' 11", 193#, 1 year
5 - Adrian Madise, 5' 11", 215#, 1 year
2 - Darius Watts, 6'2", 190#, 2 years, marginal player
6 - Triandos Luke, 5'10", 190#, 1 year and 6 receptions

Not a great track record... until you throw Rod Smith into the mix.

I wonder how much input Kubiak had into this? I think he's drafted WR better here than Denver did when he was there.

DX-TEX
05-24-2012, 11:39 AM
The WR spot is the only sport on the roster that really worried me going into this season. I was hoping they would address is early in the draft or via FA and they really didnt.

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2012, 11:51 AM
The WR spot is the only sport on the roster that really worried me going into this season. I was hoping they would address is early in the draft or via FA and they really didnt.

In a round about sort of way, they did.

Going into the draft, Smith said over and over that this draft was deep at WR. There were a lot of guys (off the top of my head: Randle, Toon, Sanu, etc.) who would have gone in the 1st-3rd round other years that dropped to later rounds because there were so many talented guys available OR because of character concerns.

Prior to his suspension, Posey was considered a 2nd round talent. A lot of people red-flagged him because of those suspensions as a "bad character" guy but on reviewing why he was suspended, he's really not. He's a very talented receiver that we basically stole because a lot of people slept on him.

Dwight Jones is possibly even more talented and has more potential than Posey except that he DOES have real character concerns. If he hadn't screwed around, he easily could have been drafted in the 2nd round.

Walterfootball had Jones AND K-Mart ranked higher than Posey although I think they were giving too much emphasis to Posey's suspensions.

So, in effect, we got 3 guys at WR who could be considered early round prospects, we just got them in later rounds. So that's a good deal, right? :)

Rey
05-24-2012, 11:53 AM
Hard to say what he can and cant do with WR's when he hasnt really used any valuable resources on premium talent mainly because he was handed a roster lacking talent at so many positions.

You are correct...

Wasn't arguing that point at all.

beerlover
05-24-2012, 11:59 AM
The WR spot is the only sport on the roster that really worried me going into this season. I was hoping they would address is early in the draft or via FA and they really didnt.

to follow up what Pencil Neck said, clearly best value approach was something they derived at purely on basis of need with using two early mid round picks. this is where best value presented itself so Rick Smith & Texans took advantage of what they felt was plus value @ WR position's. :)

DX-TEX
05-24-2012, 12:25 PM
to follow up what Pencil Neck said, clearly best value approach was something they derived at purely on basis of need with using two early mid round picks. this is where best value presented itself so Rick Smith & Texans took advantage of what they felt was plus value @ WR position's. :)

Its just a gut feeling but I dont think anyone we drafted or signed as an UFA is going to help much this year. We are pinning our hopes on LeStarr Jean.....really need another veteran and at this point I would take a flyer on Plaxico. He wont be expensive and seems to have a small chip on his shulder. Texans were interested last year so why not roll the dice on the cheap?

Allstar
05-24-2012, 12:51 PM
I've got to admit I've got that nervous feeling I had when we went with the kiddie corners. I really hope at least one of Jean/Posey/Martin can step up as a big time play maker.

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2012, 12:56 PM
Its just a gut feeling but I dont think anyone we drafted or signed as an UFA is going to help much this year. We are pinning our hopes on LeStarr Jean.....really need another veteran and at this point I would take a flyer on Plaxico. He wont be expensive and seems to have a small chip on his shulder. Texans were interested last year so why not roll the dice on the cheap?

It's MAY.

There's a good chance of more vet WRs getting cut.

We've got a long way to go before we have all our pieces in place. That may mean going with the WRs we've got but odds are we'll pick up one vet WR before it's all said and done.

infantrycak
05-24-2012, 01:05 PM
In Kubiaks first Six drafts he used two 7th rounders , a 6th and one premium pick at WR - that being Pea Brain in the 3rd round of 07.

Not arguing your overall point and I may have missed where you mentioned him but Kubiak also paid a 7th for Kevin Walter as a RFA.

paycheck71
05-24-2012, 01:43 PM
Its just a gut feeling but I dont think anyone we drafted or signed as an UFA is going to help much this year. We are pinning our hopes on LeStarr Jean.....really need another veteran and at this point I would take a flyer on Plaxico. He wont be expensive and seems to have a small chip on his shulder. Texans were interested last year so why not roll the dice on the cheap?

IIRC, Plaxico was interested in the Texans. I don't remember the Texans ever showing any interest in him last year.

Honoring Earl 34
05-24-2012, 01:56 PM
Not arguing your overall point and I may have missed where you mentioned him but Kubiak also paid a 7th for Kevin Walter as a RFA.

The Broncos of the 90's had Rod Smith an UDFA and Ed McCaffery as their WRs .

Texn4life
05-24-2012, 02:48 PM
It's MAY.

There's a good chance of more vet WRs getting cut.

We've got a long way to go before we have all our pieces in place. That may mean going with the WRs we've got but odds are we'll pick up one vet WR before it's all said and done.

The Patriots are likely to cut some very interesting names pretty soon. I've been saying that I want a guy who can come in to push for starting playing time. I don't want to stunt the growth of our young guys, but you usually see rookies start to make strides about mid-season playing receiver. We can't afford to wait until then IMO.

There's a guy sitting out there who I would bring in without a question who would provide an upgrade to Kevin Walter, but we're stubborn as a FO about who we bring in.

NCTexan
05-24-2012, 02:51 PM
The Patriots are likely to cut some very interesting names pretty soon. I've been saying that I want a guy who can come in to push for starting playing time. I don't want to stunt the growth of our young guys, but you usually see rookies start to make strides about mid-season playing receiver. We can't afford to wait until then IMO.

There's a guy sitting out there who I would bring in without a question who would provide an upgrade to Kevin Walter, but we're stubborn as a FO about who we bring in.

Plaxico? I think quite a few people are advocating for him. I wouldn't mind him coming in at least for camp.

Texn4life
05-24-2012, 02:58 PM
Plaxico? I think quite a few people are advocating for him. I wouldn't mind him coming in at least for camp.

Braylon Edwards is a guy who I think would be better for this offense, and probably would come just as cheap. Big body, willing blocker, able to stretch the field, and has played in a similar offense.

Corrosion
05-24-2012, 03:00 PM
Not arguing your overall point and I may have missed where you mentioned him but Kubiak also paid a 7th for Kevin Walter as a RFA.

I didnt mention it .... as my post was in response to GP's who mentioned Walter specifically as being the only WR Kubiak has aquired.

Cant complain about the bag of chips given the Bungles in exchange for Walter considering the production.

Honoring Earl 34
05-24-2012, 03:05 PM
I didnt mention it .... as my post was in response to GP's who mentioned Walter specifically as being the only WR Kubiak has aquired.

Cant complain about the bag of chips given the Bungles in exchange for Walter considering the production.

They knew their record with WRs and that's probably why they held on to JJ which is ironic considering JJ can't hang on to much .

badboy
05-24-2012, 03:21 PM
In a round about sort of way, they did.

Going into the draft, Smith said over and over that this draft was deep at WR. There were a lot of guys (off the top of my head: Randle, Toon, Sanu, etc.) who would have gone in the 1st-3rd round other years that dropped to later rounds because there were so many talented guys available OR because of character concerns.

Prior to his suspension, Posey was considered a 2nd round talent. A lot of people red-flagged him because of those suspensions as a "bad character" guy but on reviewing why he was suspended, he's really not. He's a very talented receiver that we basically stole because a lot of people slept on him.

Dwight Jones is possibly even more talented and has more potential than Posey except that he DOES have real character concerns. If he hadn't screwed around, he easily could have been drafted in the 2nd round.

Walterfootball had Jones AND K-Mart ranked higher than Posey although I think they were giving too much emphasis to Posey's suspensions.

So, in effect, we got 3 guys at WR who could be considered early round prospects, we just got them in later rounds. So that's a good deal, right? :)I doubt NFL teams went to sleep on Posey but not Jones. It's ok but I'm reading in your posts more personal opinion rather than NFL out to get Posey. It's possible that the GMs had a truer eval than you. We just have to wait and see. I hope you are right & I am wrong.

Corrosion
05-24-2012, 03:22 PM
They knew their record with WRs and that's probably why they held on to JJ which is ironic considering JJ can't hang on to much .

They held onto JJ because he does have all world talent .... and he flashed it just often enough to keep the team as well as many fans believing in him , believing year after year that he would finally turn the proverbial corner .... He made improvement year over year from 2008-10 but took a step back in 2011.


It took the events in Baltimore to seal his fate as a Texan .... For the team to give up on that talent. He just doesnt have the brain to go with the physical gifts.

Corrosion
05-24-2012, 03:23 PM
I doubt NFL teams went to sleep on Posey but not Jones. It's ok but I'm reading in your posts more personal opinion rather than NFL out to get Posey. It's possible that the GMs had a truer eval than you. We just have to wait and see. I hope you are right & I am wrong.

Who's to say that another team wouldnt have drafted Posey soon after had the Texans pased on him ??

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2012, 03:40 PM
I doubt NFL teams went to sleep on Posey but not Jones. It's ok but I'm reading in your posts more personal opinion rather than NFL out to get Posey. It's possible that the GMs had a truer eval than you. We just have to wait and see. I hope you are right & I am wrong.

I shouldn't have said that other NFL teams went to sleep on Posey. Ultimately, we have no idea how team's boards looked. Let's say we take Randle at that spot (EDIT: I mean when we had the chance), there's no way to know where Posey would have ended up. He might have been the next WR off the board and he might have gone undrafted... although I doubt that.

But we know that Posey dropped on non-NFL Mock boards. And I think THOSE guys went to sleep on him.

I don't think anyone went to sleep on Jones. Jones has legitimate character concerns and those showed up in his Combine and Senior Bowl performances. Walterfootball had him going in the 5th to the Bengals.

badboy
05-24-2012, 03:52 PM
Who's to say that another team wouldnt have drafted Posey soon after had the Texans pased on him ??Yep we can speculate in one hand and.....

badboy
05-24-2012, 03:54 PM
I shouldn't have said that other NFL teams went to sleep on Posey. Ultimately, we have no idea how team's boards looked. Let's say we take Randle at that spot (EDIT: I mean when we had the chance), there's no way to know where Posey would have ended up. He might have been the next WR off the board and he might have gone undrafted... although I doubt that.

But we know that Posey dropped on non-NFL Mock boards. And I think THOSE guys went to sleep on him.

I don't think anyone went to sleep on Jones. Jones has legitimate character concerns and those showed up in his Combine and Senior Bowl performances. Walterfootball had him going in the 5th to the Bengals.I wasn't criticising your choice of words just that perhaps other GMs thought Posey's issues were more of a flag than do you or as I think he is not as good as some think. Again, like I did with KJ, he is on the team now & hope he does well.

TexanCR
05-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Here is a quote form Kubiak today, regarding the WRs:

“Flashes. They’re all what we thought they were. Getting a little fatigued right now. That bothers me. You’ve got to be able to run all day. (DeVier) Posey is out here pretty tired today. We’ve got to get those guys, condition-wise, to where they can do it all day long. But talent-wise, it’s exactly what we thought we were going to get.”

I know it preseson but kmoon you should be prepared...he's just losing his chances with Jean getting already first team reps.

Too early to tell and also we will see how Ruben Randle plays with NYG since Hakeem Nicks will be out 3 months. He will get the starting role and we will see if we miss out on him and made a huge mistake.

b0ng
05-24-2012, 04:11 PM
Here is a quote form Kubiak today, regarding the WRs:

“Flashes. They’re all what we thought they were. Getting a little fatigued right now. That bothers me. You’ve got to be able to run all day. (DeVier) Posey is out here pretty tired today. We’ve got to get those guys, condition-wise, to where they can do it all day long. But talent-wise, it’s exactly what we thought we were going to get.”

I know it preseson but kmoon you should be prepared...he's just losing his chances with Jean getting already first team reps.

Too early to tell and also we will see how Ruben Randle plays with NYG since Hakeem Nicks will be out 3 months. He will get the starting role and we will see if we miss out on him and made a huge mistake.

They’re young, I’ll can tell you that. It’s exciting because we’ve got a lot of ability to work with but obviously we’ve got a long, long way to go. It’ll be interesting to see how they sort themselves out. It’s a great opportunity for them. I mean, you look at Lestar Jean is working as a starter right now. As a player, all you can ask for is to get on the field, and if you do it, you’re not coming off. That’s the way this thing works. I’m going to rotate them every week. I think I’ll change them up, change the depth chart and see who’s going to stand out, who’s going to help our football team. But they’re all going to get an opportunity.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Tuesday-OTA/0a1a1ad0-5a4b-48ac-a500-6f0e11a733ae

After making my comment earlier in the thread, this came out or I read it soon after. I'm not worried about it right now.

Corrosion
05-24-2012, 04:22 PM
Yep we can speculate in one hand and.....

And you are speculating he wouldnt have been ..... works both ways :lol:

Corrosion
05-24-2012, 04:41 PM
Here is a quote form Kubiak today, regarding the WRs:

“Flashes. They’re all what we thought they were. Getting a little fatigued right now. That bothers me. You’ve got to be able to run all day. (DeVier) Posey is out here pretty tired today. We’ve got to get those guys, condition-wise, to where they can do it all day long. But talent-wise, it’s exactly what we thought we were going to get.”

I know it preseson but kmoon you should be prepared...he's just losing his chances with Jean getting already first team reps.

Too early to tell and also we will see how Ruben Randle plays with NYG since Hakeem Nicks will be out 3 months. He will get the starting role and we will see if we miss out on him and made a huge mistake.

A few things to pick out of this post -

1 - Posey missed most of the season and now we're in the offseason .... you expect him to be in football shape ?

2 - Lestar Jean is more familiar with the Texans system , he knows the routes ... That gives him a distinct advantage from the get go.

3 - Randle may be "handed the starting role" For Now .... He may get more opportunities early but thats because he's not competing for playing time Vs two established veterans .... He's going to get that opportunity because of injury.
Randle's hands and route running do not compare favorably to those of Posey who is a very polished , smooth route runner. One is a one year wonder while the other put up good numbers in multiple seasons for the NCAA's most run heavy offense during that period.

Here's a quote from TC observing OTA's -

Posey I noticed a few times just because it looked like he had soft hands--looked very fluid catching the ball.

I had the opportunity to watch Posey in a Pre-Draft workout .... That was the first thing I noticed about him - His hands are fantastic.

Couple quotes from the mock draft forum -


Im also high on DeVier Posey .... He has fantastic hands , great acceleration & change of direction. Tho not as big as some of the others at "only" 6'1" 210. I think he would fit well in the slot on this squad. I saw this guy doing some live drills and came away thoroughly impressed ....

Those two guy's would be my targets at the WR position in the 3rd to 4th rounds.



Curious where you guy's have DeVier Posey from Ohio State ranked. Dont see him on anyone's list.

Has good size , speed and seperation ..... Could likely be had in the 3rd or 4th rounds.

The bold is why people are pissing and moaning about this pick .....

TexanCR
05-24-2012, 04:54 PM
A few things to pick out of this post -

1 - Posey missed most of the season and now we're in the offseason .... you expect him to be in football shape ?

2 - Lestar Jean is more familiar with the Texans system , he knows the routes ... That gives him a distinct advantage from the get go.

3 - Randle may be "handed the starting role" For Now .... He may get more opportunities early but thats because he's not competing for playing time Vs two established veterans .... He's going to get that opportunity because of injury.
Randle's hands and route running do not compare favorably to those of Posey who is a very polished , smooth route runner. One is a one year wonder while the other put up good numbers in multiple seasons for the NCAA's most run heavy offense during that period.

Here's a quote from TC observing OTA's -



I had the opportunity to watch Posey in a Pre-Draft workout .... That was the first thing I noticed about him - His hands are fantastic.

Couple quotes from the mock draft forum -







The bold is why people are pissing and moaning about this pick .....

Thanks for the info, Im just saying that he had a whole year to prepare and keep yourself in good physical shape. But like I said its too early and im not saying that he is a bad player, I HOPE he is the best player that we drafted, but he will always be compared to Randle for the Texans fans, so this could be a great pick or a big miss when we look back to this draft class.

I will still support him and its very exciting to see the rookies on the Texans uniform, after weeks and weeks of reading about them, finally see them on the field of practice is awesome, I cant wait for the preseason games to see Jean, Posey, Martin and Jones.

From all this I dont know why but I think Martin is the one that is going to make a big impact next season, dont know just a gut feeling.

Corrosion
05-24-2012, 05:46 PM
Thanks for the info, Im just saying that he had a whole year to prepare and keep yourself in good physical shape. But like I said its too early and im not saying that he is a bad player, I HOPE he is the best player that we drafted, but he will always be compared to Randle for the Texans fans, so this could be a great pick or a big miss when we look back to this draft class.

I will still support him and its very exciting to see the rookies on the Texans uniform, after weeks and weeks of reading about them, finally see them on the field of practice is awesome, I cant wait for the preseason games to see Jean, Posey, Martin and Jones.

From all this I dont know why but I think Martin is the one that is going to make a big impact next season, dont know just a gut feeling.

There's a huge difference between being in great shape and being in football shape .... Unless you've walked a mile in those shoes , its difficult to fathom the difference. I didnt play college football ..... but I did play in highschool and I can tell you , the difference is like night and day.
You walk on the field for practice the first time thinking .... "Im ready for this."
Next thing you know you are holding your shorts at best and puking your guts out at worst(especially here in the Houston heat and humidity)."


As for Martin , he's got the best chance to contribute because he doesnt have anyone to compete with for PT outside of Trycycle at PR and is best suited for the slot position .... where he is best suited which you really cant say about the rest of the WR's on this roster - they are outside guy's .... Tho Posey can play from the slot.

TexanCR
05-24-2012, 07:06 PM
As for Martin , he's got the best chance to contribute because he doesnt have anyone to compete with for PT outside of Trycycle at PR and is best suited for the slot position .... where he is best suited which you really cant say about the rest of the WR's on this roster - they are outside guy's .... Tho Posey can play from the slot.

I will really like to see Posey playing the slot inside the 40 yl (bigger body than Martin and according to the reports great hands however not so fast) and in the red zone with Jean or Jones on one side and AJ on the other. However I dont remember us playing a 3WR set on the red zone, more like the 2 TE sets but now we have a better personal to expand our offense, even start with casey on the TE slot and motion him to the WR positon...

Allstar
05-24-2012, 07:30 PM
Not only is he not in football shape, he and the other rookies need to get acclimated to the Houston weather. It's something every new Texan talks about this time of year.

Corrosion
05-24-2012, 11:22 PM
I will really like to see Posey playing the slot inside the 40 yl (bigger body than Martin and according to the reports great hands however not so fast) and in the red zone with Jean or Jones on one side and AJ on the other. However I dont remember us playing a 3WR set on the red zone, more like the 2 TE sets but now we have a better personal to expand our offense, even start with casey on the TE slot and motion him to the WR positon...

Posey was clocked as fast as 4.37 in the 40 Pre-Draft ..... Not so fast ?

JB
05-24-2012, 11:36 PM
Posey was clocked as fast as 4.37 in the 40 Pre-Draft ..... Not so fast ?

Dude, you should know better than to bring facts into the equation...

TdotTexas2Step
05-24-2012, 11:37 PM
Posey was clocked as fast as 4.37 in the 40 Pre-Draft ..... Not so fast ?

That's a fair point, but from scouting reports I've read, speed isn't listed as a strength for him. As we should all know, 40 times aren't the same as game speed.

GP
05-24-2012, 11:40 PM
I didnt mention it .... as my post was in response to GP's who mentioned Walter specifically as being the only WR Kubiak has aquired.

Cant complain about the bag of chips given the Bungles in exchange for Walter considering the production.


W. T. H??? Try again. You even quoted me, too, and you still attribute me as saying KW is the ONLY WR Kubiak acquired????? Here is the quote, again:

Originally Posted by GP
Outside of KW, what WR has Kubiak identified and acquired that really has contributed much of anything? I can't think of a name.

See, this is why I loathe this place sometimes. I didn't say he was THE only WR Kubiak acquired. I mean, I'm not that dense. LOL...SMH. Now you're going to have people thinking that GP thinks KW is the only WR Kubiak has drafted/acquired in his tenure here. Thanks!

What I meant is that KW is the only one who has really accomplished anything here, and even that is a bit of a stretch to say. I meant other than KW there's no other WR Kubiak can be proud of. When I say "OUTSIDE OF Kevin Walter..." that means "What OTHER WRs other than KW have been productive?"

Sometimes I really wonder....

Corrosion
05-25-2012, 12:09 AM
W. T. H??? Try again. You even quoted me, too, and you still attribute me as saying KW is the ONLY WR Kubiak acquired????? Here is the quote, again:



See, this is why I loathe this place sometimes. I didn't say he was THE only WR Kubiak acquired. I mean, I'm not that dense. LOL...SMH. Now you're going to have people thinking that GP thinks KW is the only WR Kubiak has drafted/acquired in his tenure here. Thanks!

What I meant is that KW is the only one who has really accomplished anything here, and even that is a bit of a stretch to say. I meant other than KW there's no other WR Kubiak can be proud of. When I say "OUTSIDE OF Kevin Walter..." that means "What OTHER WRs other than KW have been productive?"

Sometimes I really wonder....


So Jacoby's 16.2 avg per reception (27) in 2009 is nothing ? As is his 51 receptions in 2010 as a #3 ?

BTW Walter lead the league in percentage of catches per targets between 2009/10 ..... When you have that type of production between Walter and #80 (When he's healthy) ..... What need do you have to spend valuable resources on another WR who's likely no better than #4 on the depth chart.

It isnt until AJ or Walter are stuck on the sideline that we even pay attention to the position .....


When #80 and KW are able to take the field , there isnt much need behind them ..... when you consider the Texans offense is run first , pass when its favborable.


As for what Kubiak has been able to accomplish ... How many times have we seen AJ all alone .... without a defender within 10+ yards of him .... all this while defenses are designed to stop the guy (with and without a running game). You think thats all #80 or does it have something to do with Gary's play design and route combinations along with Schaub's play fakes which are some of the best in the game ....


Now that AJ has had multiple seasons where he hasnt been able to play 16 games , they have made allowances - spent resources to shore up the position.


But you are right , prior to this offseason , they have done little to nothing to shore up the position .... because there wasnt really a need and they havent spent the resources on the position until now.

When AJ and KW are on the field , there is no need for another WR .... save certain situations (which Jones was capable of handling on most occasions , stupid or not).


All this boils down to is resource allocation.

GP
05-25-2012, 12:30 AM
So Jacoby's 16.2 avg per reception (27) in 2009 is nothing ? As is his 51 receptions in 2010 as a #3 ?

BTW Walter lead the league in percentage of catches per targets between 2009/10 ..... When you have that type of production between Walter and #80 (When he's healthy) ..... What need do you have to spend valuable resources on another WR who's likely no better than #4 on the depth chart.

It isnt until AJ or Walter are stuck on the sideline that we even pay attention to the position .....


When #80 and KW are able to take the field , there isnt much need behind them ..... when you consider the Texans offense is run first , pass when its favborable.


As for what Kubiak has been able to accomplish ... How many times have we seen AJ all alone .... without a defender within 10+ yards of him .... all this while defenses are designed to stop the guy (with and without a running game). You think thats all #80 or does it have something to do with Gary's play design and route combinations along with Schaub's play fakes which are some of the best in the game ....


Now that AJ has had multiple seasons where he hasnt been able to play 16 games , they have made allowances - spent resources to shore up the position.


But you are right , prior to this offseason , they have done little to nothing to shore up the position .... because there wasnt really a need and they havent spent the resources on the position until now.

When AJ and KW are on the field , there is no need for another WR .... save certain situations (which Jones was capable of handling on most occasions , stupid or not).


All this boils down to is resource allocation.

I really hate it when people rag on me for being too wordy...then I go and DON'T say everything...and so it gets used against me.

I am not naive to the point that I "allegedly" didn't understand the obvious about how we couldn't focus on every position when 99% of the roster was really junky when Kubiak came onto the scene. Come on, man, I'm not that dense. LOL. Kubiak had Andre Johnson and that was it.

I would've thought that I didn't have to be a Captain Obvious about this. Of the WRs that Kubiak picked up, I would have thought he'd be able to discern and utilize WRs better than he has. The things others have brought up about the WRs he had in Denver is really telling...outside of Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey there's not much there to be proud of regarding his latter years there.

Flash forward to present day, and we reallllllllly need Posey and Martin and jean and hell, even Dwight Jones to get some face time out there. Kuharsky even gets it: In his recent article about Dream/Nightmare scenarios for the Texans...his nightmare scenario has TJ Yates throwing to inexperienced and burdened rookie WRs named Posey, Martin, and Jones and it not working out very well. Kuharsky is echoing what I am trying to say: There is a QB-WR nightmare waiting to happen.

For me, I don't care how we got here with it. It's here. Yes, maybe we could have spent that Amobi Okoye pick on a WR. I don't' know who could have been there at that pick. But we made the right call at the time--Trying to shore up a bad defense. 6 one way, half dozen the other. My concern is Kubiak's guys he HAS picked up for WR. It took a few years to get the ZBS installed properly. It took a miracle of getting Arian Foster to make the ZBS into its best form possible here. We gotta' have some of that lightning in a bottle with the WR position now.

It will make or break this season. I'm saying it right now. It can.

Instead of putting words in my mouth, maybe ask me a question about what I meant. That's why I get wordy a lot, because there is no shortage of people badly botching the context of what is said on a message board. Case in point.

GP
05-25-2012, 12:39 AM
About the Jacoby stats: I know a lot more about his stats than you give me credit for.

I did the side-by-side graphic in the 2011 summer of David Anderson vs. Jacoby Jones.

Jacoby, if we went by stats, was the better guy by leaps and bounds. But listen up: Those stats also don't tell a story of Jacoby's various untimely drops, his tipped/botched catches that were caught by our opponents and used against us...the famous Ravens game which is like 35-3 version 2.0...etc. For every great catch he made for 16 yards...he'd have a DOH! moment on an easy catch for 10 yards. It's 6 one way, half a dozen the other with those kinds of guys.

Another example: He had a similar DOH! moment vs. Titans in 2010, at Tennessee, when a punt bounced and he muffed it and only a technicality in the rules reversed a Titans recovery of the punt. He's been a question mark in spite of ANY forward progress he ever made here (pun intended).

The stats you posted look almost OK, almost startling very good for him, but it's a bit laced with cyanide IMO when we examine it further in its total context.

I'd take Plax or Braylon Edwards this very moment if we're really serious about shoring up and allocating some resources. I know, I know...cap space and such. But still. This team is going to attempt to throw the ball to a suspect Andre Johnson (longevity/injury problems), a fading KW who took a pay cut and didn't protest at all, and several rookies. Things have to pan out, or else.

Allstar
05-25-2012, 01:27 AM
Eric Moulds seemed like a great idea at the time :kubepalm:

The Pencil Neck
05-25-2012, 01:47 AM
Eric Moulds seemed like a great idea at the time :kubepalm:

So did Keenan McCardell.

GP
05-25-2012, 01:58 AM
Eric Moulds seemed like a great idea at the time :kubepalm:

Oh I was right there with ya on that one, at the time.

I thought: Man, this guy is going to really cause problems for a secondary...no way can they cover AJ and Moulds.

Oops.

We need to find our WR version of Arian Foster. Badly.

GP
05-25-2012, 01:58 AM
So did Keenan McCardell.

I forgot about him. LOL.

Oy...this is turning into a Tums-sponsored thread.

Texn4life
05-25-2012, 02:22 AM
When did we sign McCardell?

infantrycak
05-25-2012, 02:24 AM
As for what Kubiak has been able to accomplish ... How many times have we seen AJ all alone .... without a defender within 10+ yards of him .... all this while defenses are designed to stop the guy (with and without a running game). You think thats all #80 or does it have something to do with Gary's play design and route combinations along with Schaub's play fakes which are some of the best in the game ....

Just going to quote this to point out three points once again - (1) AJ is great, (2) Kubiak's play designs are masterful - imo far beyond the alleged occasional red flag or other couch coach criticisms and (3) Schaub's play fake is the bomb.

Corrosion
05-25-2012, 03:15 AM
AJ is great

No doubt.

Kubiak's play designs are masterful - imo far beyond the alleged occasional red flag or other couch coach criticisms


How else do you explain #80 with no one within 10+ yards of him on so many occasions when defenses are designed to stop the guy ?? Even when they had some chump named Ron Dayne toting the rock.


Schaub's play fake is the bomb


I think there is one QB in the NFL with a better play fake .... and that guy is a sure fire first ballot HOFer who wears #18.

Both of them have been known to fake out the TV crew ....


Between Gary's route combinations & play design , Schub's play fakes and #80 being great ..... thats a hard combination to stop.

ObsiWan
05-25-2012, 04:50 AM
When did we sign McCardell?

In 2007.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40113&highlight=Keenan+McCardell

But he got hurt in camp didn't make the final 53; got cut after preseason.

Rey
05-25-2012, 08:56 AM
Schaub's play fakes are not the reason that Andre and other receivers get so wide open. Sorry.

Not that he doesn't do a good job of executing it, but he's not even close to the main reason the play action is so successful at drawing defenders up.

TejasTom
05-25-2012, 01:27 PM
How else do you explain #80 with no one within 10+ yards of him on so many occasions when defenses are designed to stop the guy ??.

This amazes me too, and not just that it happens, but how often it happens.

Honoring Earl 34
05-25-2012, 02:05 PM
Schaub's play fakes are not the reason that Andre and other receivers get so wide open. Sorry.

Not that he doesn't do a good job of executing it, but he's not even close to the main reason the play action is so successful at drawing defenders up.

Running the ball the way they do to go along with the play action sure helps .

Corrosion
05-25-2012, 06:55 PM
Schaub's play fakes are not the reason that Andre and other receivers get so wide open. Sorry.

Not that he doesn't do a good job of executing it, but he's not even close to the main reason the play action is so successful at drawing defenders up.

Schaubs play fakes arent the only reason but they ARE a contributing factor.

For those who dont think that Schaubs play fakes arent that good .... you need to go back and watch some replays.




Running the ball the way they do to go along with the play action sure helps .

They were able to get the same type of results on play action when Ron Dayne was the primary back ....

JB
05-25-2012, 06:59 PM
Schaubs play fakes arent the only reason but they ARE a contributing factor.

For those who dont think that Schaubs play fakes arent that good .... you need to go back and watch some replays.






They were able to get the same type of results on play action when Ron Dayne was the primary back ....

Yep! The scheme and the quarterback are huge factors!

Corrosion
05-25-2012, 07:01 PM
Yep! The scheme and the quarterback are huge factors!

Dont forget about #80.

JB
05-25-2012, 07:07 PM
Dont forget about #80.

Never could! That goes without saying... just re-enforcing that Kubiak puts them in a position to succeed

Corrosion
05-25-2012, 07:32 PM
Never could! That goes without saying... just re-enforcing that Kubiak puts them in a position to succeed

At least on one side of the ball ..... The combination of :kubepalm: & :wadepalm: .... solves the other side.

Texan_Touchdown
05-26-2012, 10:45 AM
i thought this thread was about Posey lol Schuab has a good play action.. because he does the same thing on every run play. He pauses and rolls out on every zone running plays. The play action it's self isn't good but setting it up. I played QB and I remember my coach drilling that into my head lol

Rey
05-26-2012, 11:07 AM
Schaubs play fakes arent the only reason but they ARE a contributing factor.

For those who dont think that Schaubs play fakes arent that good .... you need to go back and watch some replays.






They were able to get the same type of results on play action when Ron Dayne was the primary back ....

Who said his play fakes aren't good?

They also got the same results on play action when other qb's have been in the game.

And Arian becoming who he is has helped open things up tremendously. The threat of Arian and the fact that the oline looks exactly the same is a much bigger factor than what schaub does.

And no the play action was not as successful when our running game sucked.

Lucky
05-26-2012, 11:22 AM
And no the play action was not as successful when our running game sucked.
Do you have any facts behind that assertion? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.

wolf123
05-26-2012, 11:28 AM
Do you have any facts behind that assertion? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.

Lucky is right, even when our running game was bad we had one of the best play action passing games in the league.

infantrycak
05-26-2012, 11:33 AM
Do you have any facts behind that assertion? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.

Yeah, I remember specifically in the totally suck running game season thinking they were going to have to abandon it and commenting to folks that I was surprised at how it continued to work so well.

ChampionTexan
05-26-2012, 11:41 AM
Yeah, I remember specifically in the totally suck running game season thinking they were going to have to abandon it and commenting to folks that I was surprised at how it continued to work so well.

I don't think there's any statistical way to corroborate it, but I clearly remember numerous comments during the 2009 season (#30 in the NFL in rushing yards and #1 in the NFL in passing yards) expressing pleasant surprise about the effectiveness of the play action passing game. Seems like the comments usually started something like "I'm not sure why it's still working but..."

The Pencil Neck
05-26-2012, 11:49 AM
I totally agree with Lucky on this one. It always surprised me how hard teams (and camera men) bit on our play-action fakes when our running game sucked. Did they bite "AS hard"? I don't know. I thought they did. They definitely bit REALLY hard on them, they might just bite a little bit harder now.

Here's a little something I remembered from 2009, early in the year before Slaton developed as a threat and before we'd had a single back run for over 100 yards in a game:

Warning the 49ers about Schaub's play action fakes. (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/7549/49ers-beware-schaub-can-be-a-crafty-one)

One of the take aways of that is that in 2009 by the time we played the Niners, Schaub was posting a 133 passer rating on play action fake passes. And at that time,

And then the next week, Schaub killed the Niners with the play-action. (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/7606/schaub-delivers-as-advertised-on-play-action)

Schaub's latest touchdown pass, a 42-yarder to a wide-open Owen Daniels, followed a play-action fake that fooled the 49ers. It fooled me, too. I was watching the running back for about three steps before realizing Schaub was standing alone in the backfield, watching Daniels break into the clear.

Rey
05-26-2012, 12:01 PM
Do you have any facts behind that assertion? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.

No I don't have any facts just like no one has any facts to the contrary. I didn't say it didn't work, I said it didn't work as well.

And everything I've seen indicates that's true. Teams bite a lot harder on the play action stretch with this version of the texans than they have in the past.

Rey
05-26-2012, 12:03 PM
I totally agree with Lucky on this one. It always surprised me how hard teams (and camera men) bit on our play-action fakes when our running game sucked. Did they bite "AS hard"? I don't know. I thought they did. They definitely bit REALLY hard on them, they might just bite a little bit harder now.

Here's a little something I remembered from 2009, early in the year before Slaton developed as a threat and before we'd had a single back run for over 100 yards in a game:

Warning the 49ers about Schaub's play action fakes. (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/7549/49ers-beware-schaub-can-be-a-crafty-one)

One of the take aways of that is that in 2009 by the time we played the Niners, Schaub was posting a 133 passer rating on play action fake passes. And at that time,

And then the next week, Schaub killed the Niners with the play-action. (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/7606/schaub-delivers-as-advertised-on-play-action)

None of that proves anything other than the play action is successful which is why kubiak runs it in the first place.

And in the link you posted they talk a out the o line and the scheme.

And in the quote you posted they talk about the running back.

Kubiak's stretch play action is very successful. Have not disputed that. Schaub does a good job executing his play fakes and I even said earlier that what he does after the play fake is far more impressive than the actual play fake.

What I am disputing is that schaubs play fakes are what makes the play action tick. Out of all the factors I'd say it's probably last. O line, rb, wr's then schaub. It's the entire action of the offense. If he's doing a play action fake just dropping straight back defenses don't bit as hard.

The scheme helps take away the importance of individual players and puts in on the entire action of the play. That's why teams respect it regardless of whether schaub is running it or whether Yates or sage ran it. That's why they respect it whether it's Arian or bad slaton.

But it starts with the o line. Their action is the biggest individual factor in selling the run. Period. And really, they aren't doing anything earth shattering either. Just playing within the scheme.

Lucky
05-26-2012, 12:32 PM
No I don't have any facts just like no one has any facts to the contrary.
Stats.com tracks passer rating for play action. I thought you might have access to that when you made that statement. You don't. Maybe someone else does.

Corrosion
05-26-2012, 12:44 PM
None of that proves anything other than the play action is successful which is why kubiak runs it in the first place.

And in the link you posted they talk a out the o line and the scheme.

And in the quote you posted they talk about the running back.

Kubiak's stretch play action is very successful. Have not disputed that. Schaub does a good job executing his play fakes and I even said earlier that what he does after the play fake is far more impressive than the actual play fake.

What I am disputing is that schaubs play fakes are what makes the play action tick. Out of all the factors I'd say it's probably last. O line, rb, wr's then schaub. It's the entire action of the offense. If he's doing a play action fake just dropping straight back defenses don't bit as hard.

The scheme helps take away the importance of individual players and puts in on the entire action of the play. That's why teams respect it regardless of whether schaub is running it or whether Yates or sage ran it. That's why they respect it whether it's Arian or bad slaton.

But it starts with the o line. Their action is the biggest individual factor in selling the run. Period. And really, they aren't doing anything earth shattering either. Just playing within the scheme.

Im just gonna agree to disagree and move on ..... So much of this is subjective anyway ....

drunkcookie
05-27-2012, 08:17 AM
And everything I've seen indicates that's true. Teams bite a lot harder on the play action stretch with this version of the texans than they have in the past.

It is true for the most part...teams with sub-par running games can't go out there play-action passing like the Texans do multiple times a game and expect it to work as well... The running game the '10 and '11 Texans had makes it a lot easier to succeed with it multiple times, because even if the D thinks it might be play-action, they know the Texans are just as likely to kill them on the ground (the only reason Jacoby was able to burn Reed in the regular season)... with a sub-par running game, the D can afford to keep a man out of the box...

Playoffs
05-27-2012, 11:09 AM
Sounds like Posey better decide if it's going to be the NFL or the NotForLong. Been called out for drops and now conditioning in just 6 hours of practice...

Asked about the young receivers after the final practice of the week on Thursday, Kubiak said he has seen “flashes” of talent.

“They’re all what we thought they were,” he said. “Getting a little fatigued right now. That bothers me; you’ve got to be able to run all day. Posey is out here pretty tired today. We’ve got to get those guys, condition-wise, to where they can do it all day long. But talent-wise, it’s exactly what we thought we were going to get.”The competition should for playing time – and roster spots – should only heat up in the coming weeks and months.

The Medic01
05-27-2012, 11:17 AM
Sounds like Posey better decide if it's going to be the NFL or the NotForLong. Been called out for drops and now conditioning in just 6 hours of practice...

Not worried it's freaking day three of OTA's They aren't going to be in top shape. Especially if he didn't play 90% of the season. He isn't prepared enough yet to catching in traffic so not worried. Now if this comes up in training camp then I will be worried.

Texn4life
05-27-2012, 12:57 PM
Sounds like Posey better decide if it's going to be the NFL or the NotForLong. Been called out for drops and now conditioning in just 6 hours of practice...

I think you have Posey mistaken for Jean when it comes to drops. I haven't seen one quote from anyone criticizing him for drops so far. I think the conditioning quote from Kubiak was probably just more of trying to push him. He knows we're going to need him to stay on the field this year most likely. Way overblown issue at this point in the offseason.

76Texan
05-27-2012, 01:01 PM
I think you have Posey mistaken for Jean when it comes to drops. I haven't seen one quote from anyone criticizing him for drops so far. I think the conditioning quote from Kubiak was probably just more of trying to push him. He knows we're going to need him to stay on the field this year most likely. Way overblown issue at this point in the offseason.

Right!

I think the more important thing to read out of Kubiak quote is as followed:
"talent-wise, it’s exactly what we thought we were going to get."

76Texan
05-27-2012, 01:40 PM
Schaub's play fakes are not the reason that Andre and other receivers get so wide open. Sorry.

Not that he doesn't do a good job of executing it, but he's not even close to the main reason the play action is so successful at drawing defenders up.

There are a lot of reasons why the play action works well for the Texans.
Eleven reasons on the field and a few on the side line.

The play action works for a team like Baylor with RG III running it from the spread.
The play action works for Stanford with Andrew Luck in a power scheme.
The ZBS has no monopoly on how the O-line makes each play look the same whether it's pass or run.

One of the main reasons it also works for the Saints is the QB.

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/01/play-action_fakes_by_new_orlea.html

When pressed on how he does it, however, Brees opened up.

"Fundamentally, there's certain things," he said. "You just talk about your body language, making it look just like the run. The way that you extend the ball out, the way you keep your off hand close to your belly so they're not sure if the ball is in your hands or the running back's hands. Timing -- timing of understanding when routes are going to open up down the field, and being able to get a good pre-snap read."

And here's what one of the RBs (Thomas) had to say about it:

"Coach emphasizes that a lot in practice," Thomas said. "He's always saying, 'make sure you get a good fake.' He wants a good fake. Because if you just give a sloppy fake, anyone can read that and it's basically like, 'who are you kidding? Who do you think you're trying to kid out there? You're not giving the ball off, you're not handing the ball off, you're just giving a little fake and nobody's going to respect that.' So you want to have that good mesh between the quarterback and the running back."

Playoffs
05-27-2012, 03:04 PM
I think you have Posey mistaken for Jean when it comes to drops...You're right, my bad. I'm just a little surprised that any of these WRs can get gassed enough in a 2-hour OTA to warrant Kube's public comment. Perhaps I'm naive.

ubecool454
05-27-2012, 03:07 PM
Braylon Edwards is a guy who I think would be better for this offense, and probably would come just as cheap. Big body, willing blocker, able to stretch the field, and has played in a similar offense.

Braylon Edwards....are you serious? That guy can't catch a cold.

Texn4life
05-27-2012, 03:13 PM
Braylon Edwards....are you serious? That guy can't catch a cold.

Braylon Edwards's 2 years in New York he had very reliable hands. This is from a guy who watched every Jets game. Its a reason why Jets fans want him back there. The guy made some big plays for them with a terrible QB. He dealt with injuries last year, but for a 1 year deal for cheap he's well worth it.

ubecool454
05-27-2012, 03:21 PM
Oh I was right there with ya on that one, at the time.

I thought: Man, this guy is going to really cause problems for a secondary...no way can they cover AJ and Moulds.

Oops.

We need to find our WR version of Arian Foster. Badly.

I think that UDFA WR version of Arian Foster will be ...drumroll.........Dwight Jones.:koolaid::clap:

The Pencil Neck
05-27-2012, 03:43 PM
... but for a 1 year deal for cheap he's well worth it.

The biggest problem here is that he probably doesn't want a 1 year deal for cheap. He's probably going to hold out until he gets something a bit more substantial than that. He can wait until someone has some injuries and gets desperate.

infantrycak
05-27-2012, 03:51 PM
"Fundamentally, there's certain things," he said. "You just talk about your body language, making it look just like the run. The way that you extend the ball out, the way you keep your off hand close to your belly so they're not sure if the ball is in your hands or the running back's hands. Timing -- timing of understanding when routes are going to open up down the field, and being able to get a good pre-snap read."

Thanks for digging up a great example quote. That is exactly what I am talking about. When I am talking about play fake or play action I am talking about the whole package. As I mentioned up thread Carr had one of the worst around and it was because of inconsistent body language. His arm extension was totally different.

It's funny Rey wants to credit the OL for looking the same but won't credit Schaub for making it look the same.

CloakNNNdagger
05-27-2012, 03:56 PM
Braylon Edwards's 2 years in New York he had very reliable hands. This is from a guy who watched every Jets game. Its a reason why Jets fans want him back there. The guy made some big plays for them with a terrible QB. He dealt with injuries last year, but for a 1 year deal for cheap he's well worth it.

You've got to be concerned about his right knee. According to his coach at the time, he sustained a right knee "unspecified" injury where he underwent "a procedure" in September of 2011 and would be "out for a little bit" ..........and he is still rehabbing. Lends me to believe that it could very well be an ACL ........another ACL. He was out the entire 2005 season with a right ACL.

Allstar
05-27-2012, 03:56 PM
I'd be all for bringing Braylon in on a low risk contract.

Texn4life
05-27-2012, 03:57 PM
The biggest problem here is that he probably doesn't want a 1 year deal for cheap. He's probably going to hold out until he gets something a bit more substantial than that. He can wait until someone has some injuries and gets desperate.

He only got a 1 year deal last year after having a good season and great postseason the year before with the Jets. Part of that was because he was dealing with a DWI situation that's now taken care of. I doubt any team will invest more than a 1 year deal on him though. If he can revert back to his form of a couple of years ago a team is going to get a great bargain.

CloakNNNdagger
05-27-2012, 04:38 PM
Last year, San Francisco signed Braylon Edwards to one-year, $1 million deal, with $2.5 million available in hard-to-reach incentives (90 catches, Pro Bowl). Edwards’ salary was only guaranteed if he was on the season-opening roster.

After Edwards managed 15 catches in the 49ers’ first 15 games, San Francisco cuts its losses.link (http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/03/13/report-moss-will-earn-2-5-million/)

Texn4life
05-27-2012, 04:47 PM
You've got to be concerned about his right knee. According to his coach at the time, he sustained a right knee "unspecified" injury where he underwent "a procedure" in September of 2011 and would be "out for a little bit" ..........and he is still rehabbing. Lends me to believe that it could very well be an ACL ........another ACL. He was out the entire 2005 season with a right ACL.


Yeah, that's the question that has to be answered is if he's healthy or not. If healthy he would easily be the second best receiver on our team. Injury concerns are the only reason a team wouldn't want to committ more than a year to him.

CloakNNNdagger
05-27-2012, 05:01 PM
Yeah, that's the question that has to be answered is if he's healthy or not. If healthy he would easily be the second best receiver on our team. Injury concerns are the only reason a team wouldn't want to committ more than a year to him.

Since he only missed 4 games at the beginning of last year, if it were an ACL, it would have been a minor tear/sprain with loosened mensicus, not a full ACL tear........Making it more worrisome that he is "chronically" still dealing with its rehab. And this is not to even mention the shoulder injury, which in combination with continued knee problems made him virtually worthless for the rest of the season. There are, indeed, a lot of questions.

Playoffs
06-19-2012, 02:06 PM
Well, at least we didn't go for AJ Jenkins: http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/06/inside-the-49ers/minicamp-review/

BIGGEST LETDOWN


A.J. Jenkins: The Niners first round pick looked like one of the worst wide receivers on the field most of minicamp. He didn’t play with the first- or second-team offense on Tuesday, and he didn’t catch a pass in scrimmages on Wednesday. He had trouble staying on his feet all three days, which was odd considering it was a non-contact minicamp. Overall, undrafted receivers Nathan Palmer and Brian Tyms caught many more passes and made more impressive plays than Jenkins did...

Texn4life
06-19-2012, 03:59 PM
Well, at least we didn't go for AJ Jenkins: http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/06/inside-the-49ers/minicamp-review/

BIGGEST LETDOWN


A.J. Jenkins: The Niners first round pick looked like one of the worst wide receivers on the field most of minicamp. He didn’t play with the first- or second-team offense on Tuesday, and he didn’t catch a pass in scrimmages on Wednesday. He had trouble staying on his feet all three days, which was odd considering it was a non-contact minicamp. Overall, undrafted receivers Nathan Palmer and Brian Tyms caught many more passes and made more impressive plays than Jenkins did...


The AJ Jenkins pick surprised everybody! I thought they were definitely going to draft Hill at that spot. Hill made a lot more sense because he could come in with a similar frame as Moss and learn from a future HOFer. Posey I think will probably make the most progress between the start of training camp and the end up it simply because of the time he's missed on the field.

76Texan
06-25-2012, 01:16 PM
Some interesting stuffs about Posey (and others).

http://old.houstontexans.com/news/PodcastCentral2.asp?AUTO=Y&EID=2181

Playoffs
06-25-2012, 02:08 PM
Nick Scurfield ‏@NickScurfield
Rookie WR DeVier Posey will be a guest on #TexansAllAccess tomorrow on @SportsRadio610. Show airs from 12-2 pm CT

Texans_Chick
06-26-2012, 10:15 AM
FWIW, on Posey.

Some folks are acting as though Posey in camp was like Trindon Holliday year one or something.

Not like that at all. He looked like he belonged out there. /Made a really nice catch last day of minicamp, IIRC. Bomb where it looked like he was overthrown.

Kubiak sees OTAs/minicamp as a way to get young players up to speed so they can compete with the vets in training camp. In his TD Club luncheon, Kubiak basically said he's pushing the rookies very hard because he is going to need some of them to contribute quickly due to departing players.

I also think that some comments are pumping the brakes some on the expectation by some that Posey can just jump in and supplant Walter.

I think for the all the rookies he wants them to be prepared for real camp. And not get some entitled big head sort of thing going on.

SheTexan
06-26-2012, 10:22 AM
Still don't understand WHY the Texans passed up Stephen Hill for Posey! SMH!!

beerlover
06-26-2012, 10:27 AM
Still don't understand WHY the Texans passed up Stephen Hill for Posey! SMH!!

they identified finding Mario's replacement a higher priority (Whitney Mercilus). regarding Posey, he is more polished & can run complete route tree. :)

Playoffs
06-26-2012, 10:48 AM
FWIW, on Posey.
...
I also think that some comments are pumping the brakes some on the expectation by some that Posey can just jump in and supplant Walter...Yeah, I don't expect Posey (and wouldn't any other drafted 2012 WR) to be able to jump right into our offense. Training camp/preseason will tell the tale.

GP
06-26-2012, 10:56 AM
I'm sold on Posey. Everything I read, despite Kubiak's deflective criticisms that aren't really criticisms, seems to point me in the direction of confidence in Posey.

He can run routes properly (Jacoby couldn't), he has great hands (Jacoby didn't), and he has the stride to make up ground and go get passes that are maybe initially out of his reach. Also, there has been NO off-the-field news about this guy--He's being a real pro about it all.

All in all, I think it's AJ, Walter, Jean, and Posey. Keshawn Martin as WR5 and return man. Kubiak is a seniority type of coach, he's going to have Jean ahead of Posey out of traditional respect for the code.

I don't think KW is on the outs or anything, but Jean and Posey are going to push KW for that WR2 spot this year...and the push will be greater in 2013 if KW is still around by then. And don't anybody get undies in a bunch about this, I'm just saying that Jean and Posey have a real shot at supplanting KW if they perform very well in 2012. As long as KW keeps taking pay cuts, he'll have a spot on this team even if it's at WR3 or WR4.

Texans_Chick
06-26-2012, 11:37 AM
I think the WR competition is very wide open.

It would not surprise for the Texans to bring a vet in for camp too.

Texans have mixed feelings on that. Bring a vet in, then you may be not developing your young players. Don't bring a vet in, and you may get totally hosed finding out that the game is too big for your rookies.

Honoring Earl 34
06-26-2012, 11:44 AM
Still don't understand WHY the Texans passed up Stephen Hill for Posey! SMH!!

Hill wouldn't have been in the conversation , IMO , if he didn't run a 4.3 . Posey wouldn't have been there , IMO , if he would have played his senior year .

Premier
06-26-2012, 02:06 PM
Still don't understand WHY the Texans passed up Stephen Hill for Posey! SMH!!

Stephen hill went 43rd overall, the Texans didnt have a pick until #58 (which they traded to TB). by no means did the Texans pass on hill to draft posey..

thunderkyss
06-26-2012, 03:39 PM
FWIW, on Posey.

Some folks are acting as though Posey in camp was like Trindon Holliday year one or something.

Not like that at all. He looked like he belonged out there. /Made a really nice catch last day of minicamp, IIRC. Bomb where it looked like he was overthrown.


Do you remember who threw the ball?

drunkcookie
06-26-2012, 07:01 PM
Still don't understand WHY the Texans passed up Stephen Hill for Posey! SMH!!

They didn't pass up Stephen Hill for Posey, they passed up Stephen Hill for Whitney Mercilus, if anything...

Regardless, Posey can be a better NFL receiver than Hill...

False Start
06-29-2012, 08:48 PM
Found this video of Posey (http://youtu.be/f4UkWR4Di6s), its pretty cool. Its pretty much a bullsh!t Q&A. Hes wearing his uniform, with that big ass collar in all its glory... :mcnugget:

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/dp1.jpg

Vinnie
06-29-2012, 09:10 PM
Good God, is it just me or does he seem a bit scrawny?

BullBlitz
06-29-2012, 09:15 PM
Found this video of Posey (http://youtu.be/f4UkWR4Di6s), its pretty cool. Its pretty much a bullsh!t Q&A. Hes wearing his uniform, with that big ass collar in all its glory... :mcnugget:

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/dp1.jpg

Hope he's more impressive looking on the field.

drs23
06-29-2012, 09:30 PM
Hope he's more impressive looking on the field.

I like this (http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/1-on-1-with-WR-DeVier-Posey/7769d153-b737-442a-833b-d5617cd7cdd2) one better.

False Start
06-29-2012, 09:38 PM
I like this (http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/1-on-1-with-WR-DeVier-Posey/7769d153-b737-442a-833b-d5617cd7cdd2) one better.

Yeah, me too. I thought the tennis ball thing was pretty cool, and a pretty good idea.

Big Lou
06-29-2012, 10:31 PM
Braylon Edwards's 2 years in New York he had very reliable hands. This is from a guy who watched every Jets game. Its a reason why Jets fans want him back there. The guy made some big plays for them with a terrible QB. He dealt with injuries last year, but for a 1 year deal for cheap he's well worth it.

Yeh his hands were better in NY than they were in Cleveland thats for sure.

Big Lou
06-29-2012, 10:34 PM
Hope he's more impressive looking on the field.

Damn looks like Webster in a Texans uniform. Hell I thoght that was Holiday for a minute!!!! LOL

thunderkyss
06-30-2012, 06:47 AM
Hope he's more impressive looking on the field.

I don't know why he looks so small

http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork/the_college_football_notebook/DevierPosey.jpg

6'1" 210lbs???

El Tejano
06-30-2012, 07:00 AM
Yeah, me too. I thought the tennis ball thing was pretty cool, and a pretty good idea.

What also impressed me was when he said he got that idea from working with Chris Carter. To me that said this dude puts in work and has learned from one of the greatest.