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beerlover
04-15-2012, 06:54 PM
Final Texan Group Mock Draft of 2012

Here is our annual final version 2012 Texan Mock Draft, compliments of Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover. No big reaches early, solid middle with low risk high reward prospects late. This was a group effort with multiple edited versions, starting with #26 & finishing with a total redo proposal trashed. Need really drove this draft, from giving Schaub protection, more targets in passing game, along with depth behind him & Yates. Wade Phillips didn't come away empty handed either, addressing OLB to provide depth/rotation & interior NT to develop. Even pushed a kicker for Joe Marciano to break in.

FIRST ROUND, #26: Coby Fleener TE Stanford. 6’6” 247, arm length 33 3/8”, hand size 10”
We have all identified that a huge need for the Texans is a second option in the passing game, and Fleener fits the bill nicely. While he is not a WR, Coby should provide match-up problems (size and strength vs DBs, speed vs LBs) that no WR in the draft can. Fleener possesses excellent body control and soft hands, both of which are musts in today’s NFL. We are not expecting him to be the next Gronkowski, but we do think he has the potential to be a premier receiving TE sooner rather than later. Fleener has steadily improved during his time at Stanford and turned into a technical, effective route runner who is able to separate at the top of routes. He would fast become Schaub’s #2 receiving option in double set TE formation Kubiak favors. Coby will go up for the ball in traffic, people will discover he is more physical than expected & willing blocker that will improve in time just like he showcased steady improvement while @ Stanford. He is a smooth athlete who looks natural running deep down the field, even at his height something Texans need & covet along with 2nd rounder Brian Quick this not only stretches the field it creates multiple match-up problems for defensive coordinators & Arian Foster should continue his ground assault without teams crowding the box.
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/553/543/136524727_crop_650x440.jpg?1328101532
SECOND ROUND, #58: Brian Quick, WR Appalachian State. 6’4” 220, 34 ¼” arm length, hand size 9 ¾”
Former Basketball player & High Jumper Quick passes the eye test looking the part of a NFL 1st rd. WR. If not for his late start (played only one year of High School Football) he would have been heavily recruited by a bigger school other than a NCAA Division I FCS level school, but then probably doesn’t make it to 58th overall selection after developing four years into a 1st team All American. 71 receptions, 1096 yards & 11 TD’s his senior year. Quick has also proven to be durable with no recent nagging injuries to speak of, no ACL tears or hamstring issues, you have to go back 2007, his second year playing football, that he redshirted because of back pain, but not before helping Mountaineers upset Michigan in that memorable upset when young Brian used his length & vertical jump to block what would have been a game winning field goal for that devastated Wolverine team. Check off the Texan requirements in both size & speed departments, ran in low 4.5’s w/outstanding length, over 80” wingspan. Clean on/off field. Willing blocker, special teams standout & does not have diva attitude, someone for Andre to help groom to reach his potential.
http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears-huddle/files/2012/01/Brian-Quick-624x468.jpg
THIRD ROUND, #76: Ronnell Lewis DE/OLB Oklahoma. 6'2" 253, 32 ½” arm length, hand size 9 ¼”
Early-entry Junior nicknamed "The Hammer" by teammates. Although he only played in 10 games, stats good: 59 T with 13 TFL (5.5 sacks) 5 passes batted down with a forced fumble and 1 INT. Solid Combine benched 36, ran 7.09 short shuttle which showcased his natural strength & change of direction speed, leading us to believe talent is there to stand-up & fit in Wade Phillips 3-4. He plays physically with violence & aggressive hand use. *Note he outplayed Seminole OT’s Datko and Sanders late in season. Sharp footwork, fluid quickness & keeps eyes up locating ball fast & have smooth change of direction. Teams impressed with his interviews during the combine & how he explained how his grades kept him from bowl game. He possess a strong will with high motor, similar to Brooks Reed & Connor Barwin which leads one to believe he cannot be held in check a whole game & will get to the QB.
http://seahawksdraftblog.com/wp-content/uploads/Ronnell-Lewis.jpg
FOURTH ROUND, #99: Phillip Blake C/OG Baylor. 6'2" 311, arm length 33" hand size 9 3/4"
Senior, three year starter, already played in a pro-style offense with RG3. Needs an NFL conditioning program to keep weight but change some flab to muscle. Regardless, he is a man. Combine bench was 22 which belies his strength. Did well against much heavier Ta'Amu (DT) & brains will allow him to back up Myers calling the Oline and should contest for RG if not start. He has low center of gravity with strong anchor that allows him to maintain position against big DTs. Hand placement could be better but few got by him. Texans' QBs ability to take snap from center rather than shotgun like RG# will benefit this man mountain as will the ZBS. Some mention his age but not an issue as he should last 5-6+ years. Oh BTW? Myers just signed long term deal & he turns 31 Sept 15th. Top Offensive line performer @ Combine in both vertical (29.5”) & long jump (105”).
http://www.rantsports.com/dallas-cowboys/files/2012/03/Philip-Blake.jpg
FOURTH ROUND, #121: Levy Adcock, OT/OG Oklahoma State. 6’5” 322, 33” arm length, hand size 9 ½”
Snubbed by the combine, despite selected to Big 12 First Team & not allowing a single sack all year playing LT in the Cowboys high profile passing offense. Adcock is your classic late bloomer, who added 30 pounds his senior year as his frame filled out. Levy is more athletic than given credit for & can line up multiple positions (LT/RT or LG/RG) adding plus value to his draft stock. Plays with attitude, confidence & brings his lunch pail to work every day. In the mold of a more talented, diverse prospect than recently departed Mike Brisel. While far from a finished product Levy possess natural knee bend, technique, size & experience to start in a pinch if needed. Impressed scouts at OSU Pro-Day running a fluid 5.18 forty, benched 26 times, with 27 ½” vertical. Along with Center /OG Phillip Blake early in 4th Texans can rebuild interior of their OL vacated by Brisel/Winston, back-up for Myers & replacement swing tackle for Butler.[/QUOTE]
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/uploads/5/6/9/8/5698103/564735216.jpg?596
FIFTH ROUND, #161: Ryan Lindley, QB San Diego State. 6’3 3/4” 229, 32 ¼” arm length, hand size 10 1/8”
Looking at the Texans roster, there are only 2 QBs listed- Schaub and Yates. Matt is coming off a serious injury, and will be a highly paid free agent after this coming season, while we all like Yates, it is simply not prudent to put all of our eggs in one basket. Therefore, we have decided to draft Ryan Lindley at this spot in the draft. Lindley boasts excellent size for the position, and is quite adept at throwing on the move, but is even better in the pocket. A 4 year starter, Lindley exhibits great maturity. So why does he fall this far? The answer is simple- competition and accuracy. Playing in the MWC is obviously not the same as playing in the SEC, and as for accuracy, Lindley needs some work. The ability is there, but he is just not consistent. All in all, he should be a great 3rd QB this season, with the potential to be a starting QB down the line. Texans need to use Kubiak’s feel & developmental abilities @ the QB position, someday instead of just letting coveted free agents walk, where they have depth these young, developed QB’s have great trading value down the road if they so choose.
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/468/712/90862845_display_image.jpg?1319463070
SIXTH ROUND, #195: Randy Bullock, Kicker Texas A&M. 5’10” 205, 100 PAT% 2009-10
Bullock won the Lou Groza Award as College Football’s top kicker in 2011. 29 of 33 Field Goal attempts made, increasing FG 87.9% from 76.2% in 2010 while increasing length. His trend line is a positive one, that is important to a kicker’s confidence & proving track record based on sound fundamentals moving forward to the NFL. His range is currently already in the 50 yard territory with a 52 yard FG this past season setting a new personal best . With strengthening & more technical work he can be expected to extend his range into the mid to high 50 yard range on a consistent basis. Scouts came away impressed with his leg strength both at the Combine & Pro-Day. http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/03/texans-check-out-texas-am-kicker/ Randy already looks the part of a NFL kicker, both quality of character, work ethic & maturity. We feel it’s time special teams coach grooms a young 10-15 year starter to become the Texans long term answer & closer.

SEVENTH ROUND, #233: Ishmaa’ily Kitchen, NT Kent State. 6’3” 334, 35 reps 31” vertical
Our last pick is going towards a developmental player that flashed brilliance at the college level, but needs to be coached up to his talents. Yes, the Texans are now using a system where the NT is a penetrator, and that is not really Kitchen’s game. However, Wade has proven over the years to design his scheme around his talent. And we believe Kitchen has talent, it is just a matter of uncovering it. Kitchen’s biggest strength is, well, his strength. He is a bear to move inside, and consistently occupies 2 blockers, effectively neutralizing the run game. There was a very noticeable difference when Kitchen missed a couple games due to a dislocated elbow, and when he was in the game. Even if he never pans out to be a starting caliber player (it is a 7th rounder, after all), he should still be a useful player in short-yardage situations. http://www.wytv.com/content/news/headlines/story/Mooney-Grad-Kitchen-has-Pro-Day/i4lVi306Z0WS6yVig5gcow.cspx?rss=1666[/QUOTE]

Corrosion
04-15-2012, 07:28 PM
Outside of the Fleener pick , I love them all .... I could warm up to Fleener at some point , but with OD it just seems like a luxury pick when there are so many pressing needs - Tho most were addressed in this mock.

I might be in the minority but Im leaning twards the Bama ILB Hightower if one of the top WR's doesnt fall to 26. He'd make the middle of that defense very difficult to penetrate on the ground .... and an already solid LB corps a top tier group.


I know the Texans ran a lot of 2-3 TE sets .... but I find it difficult to make that selection.

otisbean
04-15-2012, 07:37 PM
I'd be happy with this haul. Good work guys. My only switch might be if Gannaway is available in the 6th, I'd love to give him a shot at the 3rd RB slot. I think our 3rd QB this year will be a vet

mussop
04-15-2012, 08:00 PM
You guys should do more drafts together because this one blows away any that you have done on your own. Grade A+++++!!!!

Goldensilence
04-15-2012, 08:07 PM
Fleener fits well I think.

My only concern is Quick... I'm wary of another small school project, specially another one so early.

If I had to be bluntly honest, this staff has not proven itself capable of developing WRs at all. Which is part of the appeal to me in taking Fleener in the first.

Far as the rest of the draft... honestly I'd cream myself if this was the haul.

Corrosion
04-15-2012, 08:20 PM
Fleener fits well I think.

My only concern is Quick... I'm wary of another small school project, specially another one so early.

If I had to be bluntly honest, this staff has not proven itself capable of developing WRs at all. Which is part of the appeal to me in taking Fleener in the first.

Far as the rest of the draft... honestly I'd cream myself if this was the haul.

Hell , not liking Fleener (not the player , just the position / pick) I'd be thrilled with this draft.

I would have to look at UDFA's or vet FA's to fill out the ILB spots.

texanchris
04-15-2012, 08:22 PM
I'de be very happy with the majority of this draft. I just don't see the texans drafting a tight end with their first pick when they already have Daniels and Graham who people said was a Daniels clone when we drafted him. idk if Quick and Lewis would still be there for our 2nd and 3rd round pick but if so,i'de be ecstatic. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Brian Quick gets drafted by the texans and i think there was a rumor going around that the texans might draft him in the first.. Like the 2 O line picks and they can be solid depth for a year and potentially start next year if we don't re-sign Caldwell and Butler. I would be very happy with 2-7 picks but i really don't think the texans will be drafting a tightend in the first round when there are more pressing needs.

beerlover
04-15-2012, 08:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VntqR5-2Ng
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/coby-fleener?id=2532838
What separates elite TE's is they don't go down on first contact. Fleener will get bigger & stronger as he develops, what a weapon for Schaub/Texans. We are hoping for similar impact offensively as JJ Watt produced for last seasons defense :smiliedance:

steelbtexan
04-15-2012, 09:47 PM
1. Fleener- Love this pick
2. Quick, I would like him better in the 4th. Give me Toon,M.Jones or Streeter. Dont know why I dont like him. I consider him to be a small school version of Jeffery. Ok to good hands and Quick doesn't appear to be fast or Quick (LOL) out of his breaks. I will admit I haven't seen much of Quick other than the Sr Bowl, (The stage appeared to be to big for him) and the Combine. (He was OK but nothing special)

3. Lewis- Good pick
4. Blake- Great pick, He's a stud who has experience playing C/RG/RT in college. Hope he's there.
4. Adcock- I understand the pick, Give me more depth at WR/PR. Matthews/Broyles would be my pick.
5. Lindley, Good pick, I like B.J. Coleman more as a developmental QB. I thought Yates was supposed to be this guy last yr.
6. Bullock- Good pick
7. Kitchen- Like this pick. I also like Myles Wade from Portland St. They're both good late rd fliers.

Nawzer
04-15-2012, 10:08 PM
Fleener is better than any of the wide receivers that will available to us at #26. That is at least my rationale and has been for a while. Glad to see others are on board as well. But like I keep saying I don't think the Texans will make a bold pick like that. They'll more than likely draft a guy like Stephen Hill or Kendall Wright who might turn out to be good players, but with Fleener you can really do some serious damage.

badboy
04-15-2012, 10:21 PM
Outside of the Fleener pick , I love them all .... I could warm up to Fleener at some point , but with OD it just seems like a luxury pick when there are so many pressing needs - Tho most were addressed in this mock.

I might be in the minority but Im leaning twards the Bama ILB Hightower if one of the top WR's doesnt fall to 26. He'd make the middle of that defense very difficult to penetrate on the ground .... and an already solid LB corps a top tier group.


I know the Texans ran a lot of 2-3 TE sets .... but I find it difficult to make that selection.Corrosion as you know on my last individual mock I have Hightower #26 & agree with your opinion of him. However, the recent signing of Brady James reduces the need for an ILB that high. We have other issues that have to be addressed so again we draft for need. sigh. We have to have someone to take pressure off AJ.

WolverineFan
04-15-2012, 10:24 PM
1. Have no problem at all with the Fleener pick. Would give the offense great versatility in the passing game and would really help out in the redzone. He needs to work on his blocking, but I think he's worth the pick.

2. Not a fan of taking Quick if he's the only WR we take. He needs to be developed a bit and I would prefer a guy who can come in and contribute now. If we only take one WR and it's in the 2nd then give me Marvin Jones. Guy will be the #2 in week 1 and for years to come.

3. Good pick with Lewis because we do need to add another pass rusher. That said, I think he's gone at this pick. Won't get outta the 2nd IMO.

4. I do agree that we need to address the Center position at some point soon regardless of re-signing Myers. Blake is a good pick though I'd prefer Molk.

4. I think it's early for Adcock here although I see the logic behind the pick. Could be your swing tackle and compete with Butler at RT.

5. Fantastic pick with Lindley. If there's one guy in this draft that I could take late and develop it's him.

6. Once again, I see the logic behind this pick but I'm meh on drafting Kickers. That's just me though.

7. Not a fan of this pick because I think Wade's proved what he wants at NT and this is not it. I have no doubts that he would adjust his style if we had someone like Kitchen, but I don't see us intentionally going out and grabbing him.

Overall, good stuff. With a few minor changes I'm a huge fan.

badboy
04-15-2012, 10:36 PM
I'de be very happy with the majority of this draft. I just don't see the texans drafting a tight end with their first pick when they already have Daniels and Graham who people said was a Daniels clone when we drafted him. idk if Quick and Lewis would still be there for our 2nd and 3rd round pick but if so,i'de be ecstatic. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Brian Quick gets drafted by the texans and i think there was a rumor going around that the texans might draft him in the first.. Like the 2 O line picks and they can be solid depth for a year and potentially start next year if we don't re-sign Caldwell and Butler. I would be very happy with 2-7 picks but i really don't think the texans will be drafting a tightend in the first round when there are more pressing needs.Chris we are not drafting a TE, we are drafting a 6' 6"guy 250 lb flash who busted 4.5 who can replace OD if necessary and be WR2 if necessary. Texans love guys that can play more than one spot. In Coby they get a guy who can start in more than one spot.

mussop
04-15-2012, 10:45 PM
this has already been discussed in THIS (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90903) thread.

Here are the pro Fleener comments for those that don't want to read the whole thread.



Fleener is a better TE than any of the receivers that will available for us to draft. We need a red zone guy and with Dressen gone, we'll need someone to fill his gap.


Fleener was much quicker then expected at his pro day. Truth is most of our Te's are more conventional, but Fleener is the type of
TE that would create mismatches.

With all the 2 TE sets we run and the pending cap problems/huge contract OD has going into next year, getting a top flight TE should be important. Fleener is the best TE in this draft period and is as close as you get to can't miss.

I don't see Graham as anything but depth. If he had any ability I think he wold of made more than one catch in the last couple of years. Hope I'm wrong on that one for sure! As I stated in my mock, I believe there is a high possibility that OD could be let go next year. Fleener would be great insurance if that were to happen.

We have to have another reliable red zone threat or we are going to be in big trouble. The last thing we need is to start kicking field goals over and over in the red zone again. Remember that? Maybe we can find that later in the draft I don't know but IMO Fleener looks like he comes in and contributes right away in that role.



He could wind up being the next Jimmy Graham. That doesn't intrigue you at all? Him and OD on the field together would be scary. We do have more pressing needs but TE could use a boost and why limit the first round pick to a dire need anyway, all you do is wind up with an inferior player who starts early. Picking at 26 in the draft with a talented team already in place gives us the opportunity to really go BPA. I won't cry if we pass on him but Fleener is definitely on my short list.



If we can find a TE that can split out and/or play in the slot it's just as good as getting a WR in the first round. Maybe even better.

It's not like he'd struggle to get on the field.




Graham was a fourth round pick. It happens! The guy hardly seen the field in two years. One catch! TE may not be our biggest need but it is a need. You can't go into the draft saying position a is our biggest need so we have to spend our first round pick on it. You have to take the combination BPA that fills a need and generally you want your first two picks to start. You want your 3rd round pick to start year two and your expectations should lessen by round after that.

A big time playmaker at the TE position is just as valuable (maybe even more at times) than a WR.

i think the main this is if is a "willing" blocker. that can't be taught


OD our starting TE 54 receptions 677 yards and a whopping 3 td's[/quote] And on top of that will be 30 this year, has a huge contract and has missed 13 games in the last 3 years.


At 6'6" and almost 250 lbs, Fleener has natural TE size, so it is not like he is a WR/TE hybrid. You can split him out wide, or line him up as a traditional TE. While he is not a strong blocker, it is not a weakness. Just because he is known for his play in the pass game does not mean he is a liability in the run game.

Where Fleener makes his money is with the ball in his hands. He runs a 4.5 40- that is WR speed. He has good explosion numbers as well, better than many receiver prospects. At most importantly, he has soft hands. I do not remember seeing a lot of drops from Fleener. He is good at getting open, and good at catching the ball. And that is what you want to see.




Would love to add Fleener. I view him as a weapon, plain and simple regardless of his position. His speed makes him a tough match up for LBs and his size makes him tough for DBs. He could absolutely spilt out wide as well. So many possibilities. There are other players I like as well, but at this point I favor Fleener over Hill or Randle.


Drafting a TE while maybe not an immediate huge need, could pay off big next year if cap problems continue like they have. And Fleener is good enough that he would make significant contributions this year IMO and could possibly be a major player for us in the near future. Add to that that this is a late first the risk is worth the potential reward.

badboy
04-15-2012, 10:48 PM
1. Fleener- Love this pick
2. Quick, I would like him better in the 4th. Give me Toon,M.Jones or Streeter. Dont know why I dont like him. I consider him to be a small school version of Jeffery. Ok to good hands and Quick doesn't appear to be fast or Quick (LOL) out of his breaks. I will admit I haven't seen much of Quick other than the Sr Bowl, (The stage appeared to be to big for him) and the Combine. (He was OK but nothing special)

3. Lewis- Good pick
4. Blake- Great pick, He's a stud who has experience playing C/RG/RT in college. Hope he's there.
4. Adcock- I understand the pick, Give me more depth at WR/PR. Matthews/Broyles would be my pick.
5. Lindley, Good pick, I like B.J. Coleman more as a developmental QB. I thought Yates was supposed to be this guy last yr.
6. Bullock- Good pick
7. Kitchen- Like this pick. I also like Myles Wade from Portland St. They're both good late rd fliers.SteelB just a thought on Senior Bowl. I have always used it to evaluate players on a bigger "stage". This bowl was a joke imo. I am not sure if it was the coaching or what but many players just looked lost. Many were playing out of position & not just to show their adaptability but more to say that each player had some minutes. Reminded me of Little League where every kid gets to play but these guys are not 8-10.
I watched Toon extensively mostly due to having watched his dad play and I was just not impressed. Too inconsistent like Jeff Fuller. Streeter is on my individual mock and he could be a WR1 in his second year but Quick is more now than Tommy.

mussop
04-15-2012, 10:54 PM
The fact that people are worried about using a LATE first round pick on Fleener because of his blocking ability is laughable. Blocking is more about effort than anything else. OD, Graham and anyone else we have drafted at TE other than Anthony Hill has been a poor blocker coming out of college. Hell Shannon Sharpe wasn't a good blocker early on in his career.

This offense relies on the TE position more than some of you realize and its not because of their blocking ability.

badboy
04-15-2012, 11:12 PM
1. Have no problem at all with the Fleener pick. Would give the offense great versatility in the passing game and would really help out in the redzone. He needs to work on his blocking, but I think he's worth the pick.

2. Not a fan of taking Quick if he's the only WR we take. He needs to be developed a bit and I would prefer a guy who can come in and contribute now. If we only take one WR and it's in the 2nd then give me Marvin Jones. Guy will be the #2 in week 1 and for years to come.

3. Good pick with Lewis because we do need to add another pass rusher. That said, I think he's gone at this pick. Won't get outta the 2nd IMO.

4. I do agree that we need to address the Center position at some point soon regardless of re-signing Myers. Blake is a good pick though I'd prefer Molk.

4. I think it's early for Adcock here although I see the logic behind the pick. Could be your swing tackle and compete with Butler at RT.

5. Fantastic pick with Lindley. If there's one guy in this draft that I could take late and develop it's him.

6. Once again, I see the logic behind this pick but I'm meh on drafting Kickers. That's just me though.

7. Not a fan of this pick because I think Wade's proved what he wants at NT and this is not it. I have no doubts that he would adjust his style if we had someone like Kitchen, but I don't see us intentionally going out and grabbing him.

Overall, good stuff. With a few minor changes I'm a huge fan.Thanks for your compliments and your faithfulness in giving us honest feedback that we do listen to. On Lewis, we were also concerned he might be gone but our research led us to believe he should be there. Blake is a center that eliminates concern that Myers could go out and we'd have to depend on Caldwell (shudder) but he can also challenge for RG. If he beats out Caldwell @ RG, that is one less FA we have to worry about after the season. We should see instant benefits from a conditioning coach. Molk is good but don't see him as an OG. You should maybe evaluate which would fit better in Texans high octane passing game in ZBS, a Baylor center or Michigan?

Adcock may be there later but when you have 9 point buck in your sight, pull trigger. Don't keep looking for a 10 when the 9 could be on someone else's tag. Same with Bullock. Could be a UDFA but if he is, what guarantee you offering he will sign with Texans? An Aggie may be smart enough to go for more money elsewhere. lol

Again, thanks for your feedback.

WolverineFan
04-15-2012, 11:53 PM
Thanks for your compliments and your faithfulness in giving us honest feedback that we do listen to. On Lewis, we were also concerned he might be gone but our research led us to believe he should be there. Blake is a center that eliminates concern that Myers could go out and we'd have to depend on Caldwell (shudder) but he can also challenge for RG. If he beats out Caldwell @ RG, that is one less FA we have to worry about after the season. We should see instant benefits from a conditioning coach. Molk is good but don't see him as an OG. You should maybe evaluate which would fit better in Texans high octane passing game in ZBS, a Baylor center or Michigan?

Adcock may be there later but when you have 9 point buck in your sight, pull trigger. Don't keep looking for a 10 when the 9 could be on someone else's tag. Same with Bullock. Could be a UDFA but if he is, what guarantee you offering he will sign with Texans? An Aggie may be smart enough to go for more money elsewhere. lol

Again, thanks for your feedback.

I don't see Molk as an OG at all, strictly a C prospect. That said, I don't see Myers finishing his new contract. We gave him that deal because we need him, but Molk could make him expendable in 2-3 years.

I also don't see the Texans as a high octane passing attack. They led the league in rushing (or were top 3, whichever) and will continue that trend with Foster locked up and Tate still in the fold. Molk is as good as it gets as a run blocker in a ZBS system, but I would consider Blake more balanced because his pass pro is better.

If you're looking for a guy who can play both positions then you take Molk off the table but, strictly as a C, Molk is the superior prospect IMO.

badboy
04-16-2012, 12:08 AM
I don't see Molk as an OG at all, strictly a C prospect. That said, I don't see Myers finishing his new contract. We gave him that deal because we need him, but Molk could make him expendable in 2-3 years.

I also don't see the Texans as a high octane passing attack. They led the league in rushing (or were top 3, whichever) and will continue that trend with Foster locked up and Tate still in the fold. Molk is as good as it gets as a run blocker in a ZBS system, but I would consider Blake more balanced because his pass pro is better.

If you're looking for a guy who can play both positions then you take Molk off the table but, strictly as a C, Molk is the superior prospect IMO.Not picking but 2010 & '11 averaged 4500 yds and last season projected to 4,000. 2009 was over 3K. Molk is good but I see Blake better fit. Respect your opinion.

WolverineFan
04-16-2012, 12:22 AM
Not picking but 2010 & '11 averaged 4500 yds and last season projected to 4,000. 2009 was over 3K. Molk is good but I see Blake better fit. Respect your opinion.

I'm not disagreeing with your numbers, but I just don't see us as a pass happy team in today's NFL. Probably one of the most balanced offenses in the league. 4,000 yds is about average when half the QB's in the league are throwing for 5,000+ yds. Doesn't really matter in the end, if you think Blake or Molk is the better guy that's who you take. Good stuff.

Rey
04-16-2012, 12:43 AM
I've gone back and forth with the Fleener pick. I Think if we want a TE primarily be a receiver we'd be better served picking up ladarius green in the third.

I'd much rather have worthy or a trade down instead of fleener. Worthy is a stud and would add awesome to the dine. A trade down would give us additional picks.

I really like quick and Lewis. I like the o line picks.

Not a fan of the qb pick and would rather add a vet and udfa's for camp arms and practice squad and let them compete for qb #3. Draftwise I'd rather have a safety or another offensive weapon.

I love the kicker. Would like to get battering ram at full back.

Wolf6151
04-16-2012, 02:27 AM
JMO, don't kill the messenger.

1. Fleener, I know he's a great player but I don't like him for the Texans, maybe a late round TE for some depth but even that's a stretch for me. I'd prefer some D-line like Still, Reyes, Worthy, Thompson, or Nick Perry-OLB. I could endorse this pick only if he replaced OD this year.
2. Quick, I've read alot of good things about this guy and he's got all the measurable's but I worry about his ability to transition to the NFL due to the level of competition he faced in college. It's a huge step up for him.
3. Lewis, I like this pick here, good value if available.
4a. Blake, I like the pick, O-line depth is always a good thing.
4b. Adcock, see above, I see him as an OG in a couple years.
5. Lindley, I think he's got some potential but I don't think we'll be drafting a QB, I think we'll look for a vet that gets cut at the end of training camp.
6. Bullock, I love this pick, might be the best one on the list as it should solidify K for the next decade at least.
7. Kitchen, I don't know much about him but I'm glad to see some size being added to the D, probably goes to the PS where he hopefully can develop quickly.

mussop
04-16-2012, 03:26 AM
I'm not disagreeing with your numbers, but I just don't see us as a pass happy team in today's NFL. Probably one of the most balanced offenses in the league. 4,000 yds is about average when half the QB's in the league are throwing for 5,000+ yds. Doesn't really matter in the end, if you think Blake or Molk is the better guy that's who you take. Good stuff.

That's quite an exaggeration.

WolverineFan
04-16-2012, 10:32 AM
That's quite an exaggeration.

It's called sarcasm...

Texans were 18th in passing offense last year. Yes, Schaub being hurt definitely contributed to that but I don't see us as a top 5 passing offense anymore. I think Kubiak sees the value of the running game after last year and we'll go forward more balanced.

badboy
04-16-2012, 11:00 AM
I'm not disagreeing with your numbers, but I just don't see us as a pass happy team in today's NFL. Probably one of the most balanced offenses in the league. 4,000 yds is about average when half the QB's in the league are throwing for 5,000+ yds. Doesn't really matter in the end, if you think Blake or Molk is the better guy that's who you take. Good stuff.Totally agree with the balance team statements and something I really like to see in NFL team. Hopefully both Schaub & AJ will come back healthy and we can kick some butt. Enjoyed the discussion!

Señor Stan
04-16-2012, 11:10 AM
I am a big fan of this mock...

I love Fleener at #26. A package with AJ, Fleener, OD, Casey at FB and Arian out of the backfield would cause HUGE matchup problems for secondaries. It would also be ideal for running the ball.

Blake
04-16-2012, 11:15 AM
I am a big fan of this mock...

I love Fleener at #26. A package with AJ, Fleener, OD, Casey at FB and Arian out of the backfield would cause HUGE matchup problems for secondaries. It would also be ideal for running the ball.

The entire reason WR is a huge need for the Texans is that if AJ goes down we have ZERO #1 options at the WR spot. And Fleener or Quick wont fix that.

Without trading for a big time WR, I cannot get on-board with drafting a TE in the first round.

mussop
04-16-2012, 05:29 PM
The entire reason WR is a huge need for the Texans is that if AJ goes down we have ZERO #1 options at the WR spot. And Fleener or Quick wont fix that.

Without trading for a big time WR, I cannot get on-board with drafting a TE in the first round.

This doesn't make any sense. Explain who in this entire draft we could draft that would be a number one option at WR if AJ went down? There is no one! The TE position is becoming more and more important in todays NFL. Having a huge, fast TE with great hands to add to this offense for Schaub to throw to (which is his strength) would do more for this offense than you are realizing.

For starters it stops opposing defenses from putting safeties in the box which in turn helps the running game. He also would instantly become a top red zone target. That alone is worth the #26 pick.

Dutchrudder
04-16-2012, 05:40 PM
I like the mock overall, but I just can't see Ronnell Lewis being there in the 3rd. If he is, that would be a steal. Walter's consensus ranking of him is around 50. LINK (http://walterfootball.com/draft2012consensusOLB.php) However, Brian Quick is ranked at 75. So if you swapped those two, it would be more realistic.

Anyways, good effort to you all, keep up the good work!

TimeKiller
04-16-2012, 05:48 PM
I like the mock overall, but I just can't see Ronnell Lewis being there in the 3rd. If he is, that would be a steal. Walter's consensus ranking of him is around 50. LINK (http://walterfootball.com/draft2012consensusOLB.php) However, Brian Quick is ranked at 75. So if you swapped those two, it would be more realistic.

Anyways, good effort to you all, keep up the good work!

Agreed, if the Texans are even considering Lewis. If they were going for a headcase OLB grab Bruce Irvin who has can't-teach-that speed. Upside is much higher.

Diggin Fleener. It's not need or BPA (well, maybe BPA). It's strength beyond strength. Sledgen von Hammertime. Power. Another blanket to keep Schaub upright. A possible #2 receiver.

I think they may want a veteran backup as #3 QB. Would open up a pick for a DB or return man.

Nice effort fellas and may I say, best mock yet.

badboy
04-16-2012, 05:59 PM
I like the mock overall, but I just can't see Ronnell Lewis being there in the 3rd. If he is, that would be a steal. Walter's consensus ranking of him is around 50. LINK (http://walterfootball.com/draft2012consensusOLB.php) However, Brian Quick is ranked at 75. So if you swapped those two, it would be more realistic.

Anyways, good effort to you all, keep up the good work!Agreed BUT CSSPORTS.com has Lewis as 65th so...


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings

At some point, you identify the player you want and get him when you know you can rather than hope all the points add up; same with trades on draft day.

EVOLVIST
04-16-2012, 06:37 PM
Coby Fleener? We're talking about a dude who has almost the exact same stats in college as Garrett Graham did, except that the Badgers are in the Big Ten, and Stanford is in the...well...Pac-12, which might or might not equal out in competition.

The facts are, I wouldn't crap on the Texans if they took Fleener that high, but I still think the best TE in this years draft is James Hanna from Oklahoma, from the standpoint of how the Texans use the TE. Plus, Hanna is more well versed as a blocker while Fleeners stats are inflated because of Luck.

Big 12. Let's have some Hanna in a later round for a better value. He's a superb athlete, who blocks and can catch well.

After all, our need for TE really won't show itself until after next year.

mussop
04-16-2012, 07:09 PM
Fleeners stats are inflated because of Luck

What does that even mean? :wadepalm:

EVOLVIST
04-16-2012, 07:14 PM
What does that even mean? :wadepalm:

It means these guys were playing pitch and catch all over a few suspect defenses. Often you have a good WR or TE who looks like a monster if the QB is aces and can lay it right int o them. Pitch and catch.

Fleener is great. Just not great enough for the Texans in the 1st round, however. At least, that's my opinion. If the Texans take him at #26, fine.

Corrosion
04-17-2012, 12:27 AM
Fleeners stats are inflated because of Luck.



Im concerned that his stats arent greater considering Luck .... If he was a world beater , he'd have a lot more than 34 catches in a season.


I get the idea that because of the success of New England this past season , many are putting too much stock in the position. This is a copy cat league ... but its hard to copy when you dont have the personel.

Blake
04-17-2012, 09:31 AM
This doesn't make any sense. Explain who in this entire draft we could draft that would be a number one option at WR if AJ went down? There is no one!

Blackmon, Floyd and Wright all have a better shot at being our #1 WR than Fleener has at starting TE. They tore up the college level. Something Fleener has not done.

The TE position is becoming more and more important in todays NFL. Having a huge, fast TE with great hands to add to this offense for Schaub to throw to (which is his strength) would do more for this offense than you are realizing.

For starters it stops opposing defenses from putting safeties in the box which in turn helps the running game. He also would instantly become a top red zone target. That alone is worth the #26 pick.

Fleener had 34 freaking catches in 13 games last season. If he is so HUGE and FAST then tell me why his stats are so weak? Stop trying to boast him as an all world TE because he is not. He is becoming one of the most overrated prospects in this draft due to Gronk and Hernandez in NE. Not to mention, Gronk went in the 2nd round and Hernandez in the 4th.

Bottom line Fleener is a luxury pick with Daniels and Graham on the roster.

Kaiser Toro
04-17-2012, 10:23 AM
I would not be disappointed with Fleener being selected. However, durability and blocking ability are a concern for me. Moreover, it is one thing to have a big target in the Red Zone, it is another thing to get the ball to that target - I have yet to see anything from Schaub or Yates that give me confidence we would be able to leverage Fleener's size and hands in tight space.

badboy
04-17-2012, 11:25 AM
The entire reason WR is a huge need for the Texans is that if AJ goes down we have ZERO #1 options at the WR spot. And Fleener or Quick wont fix that.

Without trading for a big time WR, I cannot get on-board with drafting a TE in the first round.Blake, gonna disagree with you as I think the main reason WR is needed is to take pressure off AJ and give QB another option. JJ and Walter are not the WR 2-3 that we need. A starter can go down at any position and it would be nice to have a good replacement for AJ but there is not one at #26 imo. We will not trade for a big time WR due to cap costs or we would have gone after one of the FA receivers.

It is as possible for Fleener to eventually be WR1 as anyone else available.

beerlover
04-17-2012, 11:34 AM
Blackmon, Floyd and Wright all have a better shot at being our #1 WR than Fleener has at starting TE. They tore up the college level. Something Fleener has not done.



Fleener had 34 freaking catches in 13 games last season. If he is so HUGE and FAST then tell me why his stats are so weak? Stop trying to boast him as an all world TE because he is not. He is becoming one of the most overrated prospects in this draft due to Gronk and Hernandez in NE. Not to mention, Gronk went in the 2nd round and Hernandez in the 4th.

Bottom line Fleener is a luxury pick with Daniels and Graham on the roster.

Hindsight is 20-20 but if other teams projected Gronk or Hernandez to become what they are today do you seriously feel ski is still a 2nd rounder or dez a 4th? seriously dude, be realistic & this is just part of the attraction. The fact Kubiak probably knows how to utilize TE skill sets better than any head coach in the NFL makes a lot of us Texan fans drool :drool:

Now combine this with Fleener is faster 4.4's & stronger 27 reps to 23 to Gronk. 47 receptions, 672 yards 14.3 average per catch & 10 TD's his last season in Arizona, year before 28 rec 525 yds 18.75 avg. 8 TD's. I just don't see a disturbing difference here to Coby's production, actually very similar more a function of two conservative head coaches. 34 receptions, 667 yards (within 5 yards) 19.62 average per catch 10 TD's the freaking same. Very similar numbers previous season, 28 receptions (same) 434 yards 15.5 avg. 7 TD's. Also Coby had two previous seasons of development @ Stanford under Harbaugh. Vernon Davis is another excellent receiving TE, his last two most productive seasons track right along with Gronk & Fleener 52 receptions, 871 yards, 17.1 average per catch & 6 TD's. Previous year, 28 receptions, 439 yards 15.7 average pre catch & 3 TD's. Selected 6th overall based not as much on his production, cause both Gronk & Fleener compare favorably but based off his combine workout. Faster & stronger than both, but lacks size/length or TD production. Size does matter in the NFL (so does speed & strength) but Fleener may be the best combination of all three of these tremendous players, especially in Kubiaks offense & some people still don't feel his value is worth 26th pick :kubepalm:

Rey
04-17-2012, 11:43 AM
but I still think the best TE in this years draft is James Hanna from Oklahoma, from the standpoint of how the Texans use the TE. Plus, Hanna is more well versed as a blocker while Fleeners stats are inflated because of Luck.

Big 12. Let's have some Hanna in a later round for a better value. He's a superb athlete, who blocks and can catch well.



Hannah is who I'd target over Fleener. Will be cheaper, and quite possibly better.

mussop
04-17-2012, 11:50 AM
Bottom line Fleener is a luxury pick with Daniels and Graham on the roster.

How is Fleener any more a luxury pick than Perry?

EVOLVIST
04-17-2012, 12:14 PM
Hindsight is 20-20 but if other teams projected Gronk or Hernandez to become what they are today do you seriously feel ski is still a 2nd rounder or dez a 4th? seriously dude, be realistic & this is just part of the attraction. The fact Kubiak probably knows how to utilize TE skill sets better than any head coach in the NFL makes a lot of us Texan fans drool :drool:

Now combine this with Fleener is faster 4.4's & stronger 27 reps to 23 to Gronk. 47 receptions, 672 yards 14.3 average per catch & 10 TD's his last season in Arizona, year before 28 rec 525 yds 18.75 avg. 8 TD's. I just don't see a disturbing difference here to Coby's production, actually very similar more a function of two conservative head coaches. 34 receptions, 667 yards (within 5 yards) 19.62 average per catch 10 TD's the freaking same. Very similar numbers previous season, 28 receptions (same) 434 yards 15.5 avg. 7 TD's. Also Coby had two previous seasons of development @ Stanford under Harbaugh. Vernon Davis is another excellent receiving TE, his last two most productive seasons track right along with Gronk & Fleener 52 receptions, 871 yards, 17.1 average per catch & 6 TD's. Previous year, 28 receptions, 439 yards 15.7 average pre catch & 3 TD's. Selected 6th overall based not as much on his production, cause both Gronk & Fleener compare favorably but based off his combine workout. Faster & stronger than both, but lacks size/length or TD production. Size does matter in the NFL (so does speed & strength) but Fleener may be the best combination of all three of these tremendous players, especially in Kubiaks offense & some people still don't feel his value is worth 26th pick :kubepalm:


Owen Daniels - 62 receptions, 852 yards, 8 TDs - 3 years - Wisconsin

Coby Fleener - 96 receptions, 1543 yards, 18 Tds - 4 years - Stanford

Garrett Graham - 121 receptions, 1492 yards, 16 TDs - 3 years - Wisconsin


Maybe Garrett Graham will be the next Gronk, too. :kitten:

:fingergun:

Goldensilence
04-17-2012, 12:15 PM
Blackmon, Floyd and Wright all have a better shot at being our #1 WR than Fleener has at starting TE. They tore up the college level. Something Fleener has not done.



Fleener had 34 freaking catches in 13 games last season. If he is so HUGE and FAST then tell me why his stats are so weak? Stop trying to boast him as an all world TE because he is not. He is becoming one of the most overrated prospects in this draft due to Gronk and Hernandez in NE. Not to mention, Gronk went in the 2nd round and Hernandez in the 4th.

Bottom line Fleener is a luxury pick with Daniels and Graham on the roster.

Difference is Fleener was productive in a fairly conservative offense at Stanford. I would compare his ability to a guy like Stephen Hill. Freakish athletic ability, but in an offense that doesn't fully utilize it. Luck is also great at ball distribution.

To me I think his production is ok, but what I am really looking at is this: OD and Graham don't create physical mismatches the way Gronk or Hernandez do and never will. They are the more typical old school TE, which I don't have a problem with. Fleener is going to create mismatches in the NFL.

Of the 3 WRs you mentioned obviously we're not going to have a shot at the first two, and Wright is a Desean Jackson clone. I'm not saying that's a bad thing by any means, but he just doesn't have the size to be a true #1 like AJ.

For comparison sake:

OD's # last year: 54 677 12.5 34 3

3 TDs for an elite TE?

His backup:

Joel Dressen 28 353 12.6 6

Half the yards and catches...but double the TD production?


Coby Fleener 34 667 19.6 10

A little over half the catches, but a whopping 20 yards per catch, I'd say that's big play ability. Not to mention even with that low reception count he had the EXACT amount of yards and still eclipsed BOTH our top two TEs in TD production.

For giggles Jacoby Jones our #3

16 10 31 512 16.5 2

Blake
04-17-2012, 12:27 PM
How is Fleener any more a luxury pick than Perry?

We absolutely need more big time pass rushing linebackers. We dont need more pass catching tight ends. But if you have to have one then take one in the 3rd-4th rounds.

mussop
04-17-2012, 06:06 PM
We absolutely need more big time pass rushing linebackers. We dont need more pass catching tight ends. But if you have to have one then take one in the 3rd-4th rounds.

TE - Currently we have

OD - who will be 30 years old this year, is in the second year of a 4 year 22 million dollar contract, has missed 14 games in the last 3 years, only has 5 total TD's in the last 2 years and has never averaged over 13 yards a catch in any of his 6 seasons as a pro.

Garret Graham - 1 catch in his career. Enough said!!!!!

But in your infinite wisdom we don't need anymore pass catching tight ends. :lol:


OLB - Currently we have

Connar Barwin - A young third year stud that had a career year last year with 11.5 sacks.

Brooks Reed - Another young stud that had 9.5 sacks last year.


And 2 promising young guys who have at least shown flashes of the talent it takes to become solid depth at OLB in Nading and Braman.

But again in your infinite wisdom this is where we should spend our first round pick? On a player who will seldom see the field and will probably only really contribute this year if there is an injury? :wadepalm: We dont need to spend our first round pick on this type a player, but if you have to have one then take one in the 3rd-4th rounds. Don't waste a first round pick on one. Use that on a player that can and will have the most impact on the team. A player like Fleener that because of the mismatches he will create and his abilities, will make an instant impact.

mussop
04-17-2012, 06:17 PM
Owen Daniels - 62 receptions, 852 yards, 8 TDs - 3 years - Wisconsin

Coby Fleener - 96 receptions, 1543 yards, 18 Tds - 4 years - Stanford

Garrett Graham - 121 receptions, 1492 yards, 16 TDs - 3 years - Wisconsin


Maybe Garrett Graham will be the next Gronk, too. :kitten:

:fingergun:

Brilliant!!!!!!!:wadepalm:

badboy
04-17-2012, 09:49 PM
Hannah is who I'd target over Fleener. Will be cheaper, and quite possibly better.6th rounders often don't make roster so you're willing to give up the chance to strengthen your passing options? WHo is your WR choice?

rmartin65
04-17-2012, 10:09 PM
Hannah was a nobody before the combine. Definition of a workout warrior, and this is coming from an OU fan. 381 yards and 2 TDs on the season, only 52 catches for his career. He can block ok, but hardly a WOW blocker.

mussop
04-18-2012, 12:19 AM
Hannah was a nobody before the combine. Definition of a workout warrior, and this is coming from an OU fan. 381 yards and 2 TDs on the season, only 52 catches for his career. He can block ok, but hardly a WOW blocker.

I agree! If we are going to take a late round TE there are better ones to choose from.

Rey
04-18-2012, 12:30 AM
6th rounders often don't make roster so you're willing to give up the chance to strengthen your passing options? WHo is your WR choice?

I think there are better options to strengthen the passing game than fleener in the first.

And honestly, the passing game hasn't been bad. I don't think it's been great, but it's been very good when schaub has been at qb.

I'd rather trade down or draft worthy over fleener and grab receiving help in the second and/or later.

Rey
04-18-2012, 12:43 AM
Hannah was a nobody before the combine. Definition of a workout warrior, and this is coming from an OU fan. 381 yards and 2 TDs on the season, only 52 catches for his career. He can block ok, but hardly a WOW blocker.

Lots of players boost their stock due to the combine.

Kind of weird to talk about his lack of production and at the same time pimp fleener.


I think if Hannah was in that system with luck throwing him passes he'd have been more productive.

The NFL is full of good te's. Almost every team has one. Sorry, but I don't see the value of us taking fleener in the first.

I think there are other options for TE that can be just as productive in our system.

aussie_texan
04-18-2012, 01:09 AM
Final Texan Group Mock Draft of 2012

Here is our annual final version 2012 Texan Mock Draft, compliments of Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover. No big reaches early, solid middle with low risk high reward prospects late. This was a group effort with multiple edited versions, starting with #26 & finishing with a total redo proposal trashed. Need really drove this draft, from giving Schaub protection, more targets in passing game, along with depth behind him & Yates. Wade Phillips didn't come away empty handed either, addressing OLB to provide depth/rotation & interior NT to develop. Even pushed a kicker for Joe Marciano to break in.

FIRST ROUND, #26: Coby Fleener TE Stanford. 6’6” 247, arm length 33 3/8”, hand size 10”
We have all identified that a huge need for the Texans is a second option in the passing game, and Fleener fits the bill nicely. While he is not a WR, Coby should provide match-up problems (size and strength vs DBs, speed vs LBs) that no WR in the draft can. Fleener possesses excellent body control and soft hands, both of which are musts in today’s NFL. We are not expecting him to be the next Gronkowski, but we do think he has the potential to be a premier receiving TE sooner rather than later. Fleener has steadily improved during his time at Stanford and turned into a technical, effective route runner who is able to separate at the top of routes. He would fast become Schaub’s #2 receiving option in double set TE formation Kubiak favors. Coby will go up for the ball in traffic, people will discover he is more physical than expected & willing blocker that will improve in time just like he showcased steady improvement while @ Stanford. He is a smooth athlete who looks natural running deep down the field, even at his height something Texans need & covet along with 2nd rounder Brian Quick this not only stretches the field it creates multiple match-up problems for defensive coordinators & Arian Foster should continue his ground assault without teams crowding the box.

SECOND ROUND, #58: Brian Quick, WR Appalachian State. 6’4” 220, 34 ¼” arm length, hand size 9 ¾”
Former Basketball player & High Jumper Quick passes the eye test looking the part of a NFL 1st rd. WR. If not for his late start (played only one year of High School Football) he would have been heavily recruited by a bigger school other than a NCAA Division I FCS level school, but then probably doesn’t make it to 58th overall selection after developing four years into a 1st team All American. 71 receptions, 1096 yards & 11 TD’s his senior year. Quick has also proven to be durable with no recent nagging injuries to speak of, no ACL tears or hamstring issues, you have to go back 2007, his second year playing football, that he redshirted because of back pain, but not before helping Mountaineers upset Michigan in that memorable upset when young Brian used his length & vertical jump to block what would have been a game winning field goal for that devastated Wolverine team. Check off the Texan requirements in both size & speed departments, ran in low 4.5’s w/outstanding length, over 80” wingspan. Clean on/off field. Willing blocker, special teams standout & does not have diva attitude, someone for Andre to help groom to reach his potential.

THIRD ROUND, #76: Ronnell Lewis DE/OLB Oklahoma. 6'2" 253, 32 ½” arm length, hand size 9 ¼”
Early-entry Junior nicknamed "The Hammer" by teammates. Although he only played in 10 games, stats good: 59 T with 13 TFL (5.5 sacks) 5 passes batted down with a forced fumble and 1 INT. Solid Combine benched 36, ran 7.09 short shuttle which showcased his natural strength & change of direction speed, leading us to believe talent is there to stand-up & fit in Wade Phillips 3-4. He plays physically with violence & aggressive hand use. *Note he outplayed Seminole OT’s Datko and Sanders late in season. Sharp footwork, fluid quickness & keeps eyes up locating ball fast & have smooth change of direction. Teams impressed with his interviews during the combine & how he explained how his grades kept him from bowl game. He possess a strong will with high motor, similar to Brooks Reed & Connor Barwin which leads one to believe he cannot be held in check a whole game & will get to the QB.

FOURTH ROUND, #99: Phillip Blake C/OG Baylor. 6'2" 311, arm length 33" hand size 9 3/4"
Senior, three year starter, already played in a pro-style offense with RG3. Needs an NFL conditioning program to keep weight but change some flab to muscle. Regardless, he is a man. Combine bench was 22 which belies his strength. Did well against much heavier Ta'Amu (DT) & brains will allow him to back up Myers calling the Oline and should contest for RG if not start. He has low center of gravity with strong anchor that allows him to maintain position against big DTs. Hand placement could be better but few got by him. Texans' QBs ability to take snap from center rather than shotgun like RG# will benefit this man mountain as will the ZBS. Some mention his age but not an issue as he should last 5-6+ years. Oh BTW? Myers just signed long term deal & he turns 31 Sept 15th. Top Offensive line performer @ Combine in both vertical (29.5”) & long jump (105”).

FOURTH ROUND, #121: Levy Adcock, OT/OG Oklahoma State. 6’5” 322, 33” arm length, hand size 9 ½”
Snubbed by the combine, despite selected to Big 12 First Team & not allowing a single sack all year playing LT in the Cowboys high profile passing offense. Adcock is your classic late bloomer, who added 30 pounds his senior year as his frame filled out. Levy is more athletic than given credit for & can line up multiple positions (LT/RT or LG/RG) adding plus value to his draft stock. Plays with attitude, confidence & brings his lunch pail to work every day. In the mold of a more talented, diverse prospect than recently departed Mike Brisel. While far from a finished product Levy possess natural knee bend, technique, size & experience to start in a pinch if needed. Impressed scouts at OSU Pro-Day running a fluid 5.18 forty, benched 26 times, with 27 ½” vertical. Along with Center /OG Phillip Blake early in 4th Texans can rebuild interior of their OL vacated by Brisel/Winston, back-up for Myers & replacement swing tackle for Butler.

FIFTH ROUND, #161: Ryan Lindley, QB San Diego State. 6’3 3/4” 229, 32 ¼” arm length, hand size 10 1/8”
Looking at the Texans roster, there are only 2 QBs listed- Schaub and Yates. Matt is coming off a serious injury, and will be a highly paid free agent after this coming season, while we all like Yates, it is simply not prudent to put all of our eggs in one basket. Therefore, we have decided to draft Ryan Lindley at this spot in the draft. Lindley boasts excellent size for the position, and is quite adept at throwing on the move, but is even better in the pocket. A 4 year starter, Lindley exhibits great maturity. So why does he fall this far? The answer is simple- competition and accuracy. Playing in the MWC is obviously not the same as playing in the SEC, and as for accuracy, Lindley needs some work. The ability is there, but he is just not consistent. All in all, he should be a great 3rd QB this season, with the potential to be a starting QB down the line. Texans need to use Kubiak’s feel & developmental abilities @ the QB position, someday instead of just letting coveted free agents walk, where they have depth these young, developed QB’s have great trading value down the road if they so choose.

SIXTH ROUND, #195: Randy Bullock, Kicker Texas A&M. 5’10” 205, 100 PAT% 2009-10
Bullock won the Lou Groza Award as College Football’s top kicker in 2011. 29 of 33 Field Goal attempts made, increasing FG 87.9% from 76.2% in 2010 while increasing length. His trend line is a positive one, that is important to a kicker’s confidence & proving track record based on sound fundamentals moving forward to the NFL. His range is currently already in the 50 yard territory with a 52 yard FG this past season setting a new personal best . With strengthening & more technical work he can be expected to extend his range into the mid to high 50 yard range on a consistent basis. Scouts came away impressed with his leg strength both at the Combine & Pro-Day. http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/03/texans-check-out-texas-am-kicker/ Randy already looks the part of a NFL kicker, both quality of character, work ethic & maturity. We feel it’s time special teams coach grooms a young 10-15 year starter to become the Texans long term answer & closer.

SEVENTH ROUND, #233: Ishmaa’ily Kitchen, NT Kent State. 6’3” 334, 35 reps 31” vertical
Our last pick is going towards a developmental player that flashed brilliance at the college level, but needs to be coached up to his talents. Yes, the Texans are now using a system where the NT is a penetrator, and that is not really Kitchen’s game. However, Wade has proven over the years to design his scheme around his talent. And we believe Kitchen has talent, it is just a matter of uncovering it. Kitchen’s biggest strength is, well, his strength. He is a bear to move inside, and consistently occupies 2 blockers, effectively neutralizing the run game. There was a very noticeable difference when Kitchen missed a couple games due to a dislocated elbow, and when he was in the game. Even if he never pans out to be a starting caliber player (it is a 7th rounder, after all), he should still be a useful player in short-yardage situations. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]



Well done Guys, great mock.

double dipping on offence in the first 2 rounds would be impressive. it would add a whole different dimension to our offence and if it fell this way i would be pretty happy.

Fleener is one of the 3 or 4 players i would be very happy with if we took in the first. He gives our offence are real playmaking ability. And I'm not to concerned about his blocking. It isn't great but for a receiver first TE is pretty good.

Quick has been rising up boards fast and if he could be had in the 2nd that would be fantastic. There are a lot of WR in the 1-2 range so someone has to fall.

Lewis is an intriguing prospect that i think can offer a lot for any NFL team. He looks like he could be a real stud.

Only concern is the double pick on the O-line. Obviously you guys went for BPA which i completely agree with but i would like to see maybe a CB or NT to replace one of them.

have no idea about the 7th rounder.

Overall a very nice mock that offers real x-factor and playmaking ability to the team!

would have liked to analysis this earlier but i have had a little on my plate recently.

beerlover
04-18-2012, 02:21 AM
FIFTH ROUND, #161: Ryan Lindley, QB San Diego State. 6’3 3/4” 229, 32 ¼” arm length, hand size 10 1/8”
Looking at the Texans roster, there are only 2 QBs listed- Schaub and Yates. Matt is coming off a serious injury, and will be a highly paid free agent after this coming season, while we all like Yates, it is simply not prudent to put all of our eggs in one basket. Therefore, we have decided to draft Ryan Lindley at this spot in the draft. Lindley boasts excellent size for the position, and is quite adept at throwing on the move, but is even better in the pocket. A 4 year starter, Lindley exhibits great maturity. So why does he fall this far? The answer is simple- competition and accuracy. Playing in the MWC is obviously not the same as playing in the SEC, and as for accuracy, Lindley needs some work. The ability is there, but he is just not consistent. All in all, he should be a great 3rd QB this season, with the potential to be a starting QB down the line. Texans need to use Kubiak’s feel & developmental abilities @ the QB position, someday instead of just letting coveted free agents walk, where they have depth these young, developed QB’s have great trading value down the road if they so choose.

SIXTH ROUND, #195: Randy Bullock, Kicker Texas A&M. 5’10” 205, 100 PAT% 2009-10
Bullock won the Lou Groza Award as College Football’s top kicker in 2011. 29 of 33 Field Goal attempts made, increasing FG 87.9% from 76.2% in 2010 while increasing length. His trend line is a positive one, that is important to a kicker’s confidence & proving track record based on sound fundamentals moving forward to the NFL. His range is currently already in the 50 yard territory with a 52 yard FG this past season setting a new personal best . With strengthening & more technical work he can be expected to extend his range into the mid to high 50 yard range on a consistent basis. Scouts came away impressed with his leg strength both at the Combine & Pro-Day. http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/03/texans-check-out-texas-am-kicker/ Randy already looks the part of a NFL kicker, both quality of character, work ethic & maturity. We feel it’s time special teams coach grooms a young 10-15 year starter to become the Texans long term answer & closer.

SEVENTH ROUND, #233: Ishmaa’ily Kitchen, NT Kent State. 6’3” 334, 35 reps 31” vertical
Our last pick is going towards a developmental player that flashed brilliance at the college level, but needs to be coached up to his talents. Yes, the Texans are now using a system where the NT is a penetrator, and that is not really Kitchen’s game. However, Wade has proven over the years to design his scheme around his talent. And we believe Kitchen has talent, it is just a matter of uncovering it. Kitchen’s biggest strength is, well, his strength. He is a bear to move inside, and consistently occupies 2 blockers, effectively neutralizing the run game. There was a very noticeable difference when Kitchen missed a couple games due to a dislocated elbow, and when he was in the game. Even if he never pans out to be a starting caliber player (it is a 7th rounder, after all), he should still be a useful player in short-yardage situations. [/QUOTE]



Well done Guys, great mock.

double dipping on offence in the first 2 rounds would be impressive. it would add a whole different dimension to our offence and if it fell this way i would be pretty happy.

Fleener is one of the 3 or 4 players i would be very happy with if we took in the first. He gives our offence are real playmaking ability. And I'm not to concerned about his blocking. It isn't great but for a receiver first TE is pretty good.

Quick has been rising up boards fast and if he could be had in the 2nd that would be fantastic. There are a lot of WR in the 1-2 range so someone has to fall.

Lewis is an intriguing prospect that i think can offer a lot for any NFL team. He looks like he could be a real stud.

Only concern is the double pick on the O-line. Obviously you guys went for BPA which i completely agree with but i would like to see maybe a CB or NT to replace one of them.

have no idea about the 7th rounder.

Overall a very nice mock that offers real x-factor and playmaking ability to the team!

would have liked to analysis this earlier but i have had a little on my plate recently.[/QUOTE]

much appreciated mate :wesmantexanfan:

I see in several recent mocks OG in 2nd is becoming increasingly poplular among Texan fans & for good reason. We lost two starters. Texans want you to believe Butler who was hurt all last season & Caldwell a back-up since drafted are ready to go. I certainly hope so, but who backs them up with comparable quality reps, Schaub, Foster & offense need to take the next step in playoffs? Can't afford free agents, at least quality starting ones, so answer has to be the draft, hence the double hit. This way the projected starters can prepare as expected for the upcoming season & rookies have some quality foundation work & developmental time learning before being thrown into the fire.

You have no idea about a 7th rounder but then who does? you did mention that you like to address NT position so here you go. Really similar prospect to Dontari Poe in build, strength & agility for a big man. I'll say this we would rather take a shot on a guy with potential flyer in the 7th rd. than take that gamble on a guy in the 1st round.

I agree with the CB thing. Believe me we discussed one every round, what kept it from happening this year was the promising talent already stocked on Texan roster combined with it being a down year for position as a group. Doesn't mean they're not going to be some diamonds shine later but most likely they will be scooped up early, or just don't fit the Texan character/size profile. As a group we found them somewhat sketchy & would be forced to make a selection based more on need than value. If a guy like Josh Norman falls into the 4th rd. however I would be very tempted as I'm sure my draft partners would to add a CB.......

Blake
04-18-2012, 08:15 AM
TE - Currently we have

OD - who will be 30 years old this year, is in the second year of a 4 year 22 million dollar contract, has missed 14 games in the last 3 years, only has 5 total TD's in the last 2 years and has never averaged over 13 yards a catch in any of his 6 seasons as a pro.

Garret Graham - 1 catch in his career. Enough said!!!!!

But in your infinite wisdom we don't need anymore pass catching tight ends. :lol:


OLB - Currently we have

Connar Barwin - A young third year stud that had a career year last year with 11.5 sacks.

Brooks Reed - Another young stud that had 9.5 sacks last year.


And 2 promising young guys who have at least shown flashes of the talent it takes to become solid depth at OLB in Nading and Braman.

But again in your infinite wisdom this is where we should spend our first round pick? On a player who will seldom see the field and will probably only really contribute this year if there is an injury? :wadepalm: We dont need to spend our first round pick on this type a player, but if you have to have one then take one in the 3rd-4th rounds. Don't waste a first round pick on one. Use that on a player that can and will have the most impact on the team. A player like Fleener that because of the mismatches he will create and his abilities, will make an instant impact.

Arguing with you is pointless as all you try to do is belittle people and their opinions.

badboy
04-18-2012, 10:15 AM
I think there are better options to strengthen the passing game than fleener in the first. And honestly, the passing game hasn't been bad. I don't think it's been great, but it's been very good when schaub has been at qb.

I'd rather trade down or draft worthy over fleener and grab receiving help in the second and/or later.Come on Rey! lol Who is the better passing option in first? Passing game with or without Matt needs a major upgrade, even the "wise" ESPN & John McClain thinks so.

Trade? Ok, who and what? We have committed to our guys, tell us yours. :dancer:

badboy
04-18-2012, 10:20 AM
I think there are better options to strengthen the passing game than fleener in the first. And honestly, the passing game hasn't been bad. I don't think it's been great, but it's been very good when schaub has been at qb.

I'd rather trade down or draft worthy over fleener and grab receiving help in the second and/or later.Dupe Sorry!

badboy
04-18-2012, 10:48 AM
FIFTH ROUND, #161: Ryan Lindley, QB San Diego State. 6’3 3/4” 229, 32 ¼” arm length, hand size 10 1/8”
Looking at the Texans roster, there are only 2 QBs listed- Schaub and Yates. Matt is coming off a serious injury, and will be a highly paid free agent after this coming season, while we all like Yates, it is simply not prudent to put all of our eggs in one basket. Therefore, we have decided to draft Ryan Lindley at this spot in the draft. Lindley boasts excellent size for the position, and is quite adept at throwing on the move, but is even better in the pocket. A 4 year starter, Lindley exhibits great maturity. So why does he fall this far? The answer is simple- competition and accuracy. Playing in the MWC is obviously not the same as playing in the SEC, and as for accuracy, Lindley needs some work. The ability is there, but he is just not consistent. All in all, he should be a great 3rd QB this season, with the potential to be a starting QB down the line. Texans need to use Kubiak’s feel & developmental abilities @ the QB position, someday instead of just letting coveted free agents walk, where they have depth these young, developed QB’s have great trading value down the road if they so choose.

SIXTH ROUND, #195: Randy Bullock, Kicker Texas A&M. 5’10” 205, 100 PAT% 2009-10
Bullock won the Lou Groza Award as College Football’s top kicker in 2011. 29 of 33 Field Goal attempts made, increasing FG 87.9% from 76.2% in 2010 while increasing length. His trend line is a positive one, that is important to a kicker’s confidence & proving track record based on sound fundamentals moving forward to the NFL. His range is currently already in the 50 yard territory with a 52 yard FG this past season setting a new personal best . With strengthening & more technical work he can be expected to extend his range into the mid to high 50 yard range on a consistent basis. Scouts came away impressed with his leg strength both at the Combine & Pro-Day. http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/03/texans-check-out-texas-am-kicker/ Randy already looks the part of a NFL kicker, both quality of character, work ethic & maturity. We feel it’s time special teams coach grooms a young 10-15 year starter to become the Texans long term answer & closer.

SEVENTH ROUND, #233: Ishmaa’ily Kitchen, NT Kent State. 6’3” 334, 35 reps 31” vertical
Our last pick is going towards a developmental player that flashed brilliance at the college level, but needs to be coached up to his talents. Yes, the Texans are now using a system where the NT is a penetrator, and that is not really Kitchen’s game. However, Wade has proven over the years to design his scheme around his talent. And we believe Kitchen has talent, it is just a matter of uncovering it. Kitchen’s biggest strength is, well, his strength. He is a bear to move inside, and consistently occupies 2 blockers, effectively neutralizing the run game. There was a very noticeable difference when Kitchen missed a couple games due to a dislocated elbow, and when he was in the game. Even if he never pans out to be a starting caliber player (it is a 7th rounder, after all), he should still be a useful player in short-yardage situations. [/QUOTE]



Well done Guys, great mock.

double dipping on offence in the first 2 rounds would be impressive. it would add a whole different dimension to our offence and if it fell this way i would be pretty happy.

Fleener is one of the 3 or 4 players i would be very happy with if we took in the first. He gives our offence are real playmaking ability. And I'm not to concerned about his blocking. It isn't great but for a receiver first TE is pretty good.

Quick has been rising up boards fast and if he could be had in the 2nd that would be fantastic. There are a lot of WR in the 1-2 range so someone has to fall.

Lewis is an intriguing prospect that i think can offer a lot for any NFL team. He looks like he could be a real stud.

Only concern is the double pick on the O-line. Obviously you guys went for BPA which i completely agree with but i would like to see maybe a CB or NT to replace one of them.

have no idea about the 7th rounder.

Overall a very nice mock that offers real x-factor and playmaking ability to the team!

would have liked to analysis this earlier but i have had a little on my plate recently.[/QUOTE]Thanks for compliments! Beerlover pretty much said it all but I'd like to add we all had favorites at each round but we also have to consider Texans' philosophy and history. For example Nose tackles: while we want bigger and stronger, this position was not a pet door allowing RBs to go through whenever. Why use a 4th on a player who basically going to sit and learn? We realize there are better candidates higher but that means disregarding the position we took instead.

Oline: we ask that readers evaluate the skills that allow our selections to play more than one position. Hopefully, Butler & Caldwell will do well on right side and Smith returns to pre-2011 form. If not, we have to have someone preparing.

Corners? One of my favorite positions! I have advocated trades, free agents and draft guys. Not sure if you were on MB when I went thru my rant after Kareem Jackson was picked. Hint--it wasn't pretty. One thing BL, 65 and I could not overlook, coaching has made improvements during the brief time it had. McCain really came to play forcing my guy Brandon Harris to remain off field. KJ did much better to the point that Allen was not brought back. As BL stated if someone drops that is obviously an improvement, we'd be happy to go there. We are interested to see how Harris and Roc Carmichael step up this season.

Anyway we do appreciate your thoughts and comments. DRAFT ON!!

mussop
04-18-2012, 05:40 PM
Arguing with you is pointless as all you try to do is belittle people and their opinions.

but I do it with a smile on my face. :) See!!!

powda
04-18-2012, 11:10 PM
Blake, my brother, mussop and i had this exact conversation 2 weeks ago in "mussops mock". We posted a lot of the same stats and arrguments without changing anyones mind. Dont think your gonna have much luck either. The fleener arrgument is about as productive as democrats vs republicans. Some people were just to impressed with new englands offense last year.

steelbtexan
04-19-2012, 12:11 AM
Hate to say it, but any CB that can help keep KJ off the field is a good thing. Afterall, Jason Allen was a below avg CB, that the coaches put on the field when the defense needed a stop instead of KJ.

That speaks volumes to me, if KJ was all of that Allen should have never seen the field. I dont expect much improvement from KJ. You cant teach KJ to have deep speed, or to be a ballhawk. He's a #2 CB on a defense like the Lions. But he should be a #3 CB on a good defense. IMHO

Rey
04-19-2012, 01:11 AM
Come on Rey! lol Who is the better passing option in first? Passing game with or without Matt needs a major upgrade, even the "wise" ESPN & John McClain thinks so.

Trade? Ok, who and what? We have committed to our guys, tell us yours. :dancer:

I didn't specify first round. And when I say better I don't necessarily mean better players, but rather better options/value.

I think there will be more talented players than fleener on the board. And I honestly believe Casey is ready to be the second TE and play the role that a lot of people envisioned him playing. I'd much rather have casey on the field in the slot or as a second TE than fleener.

IMO, there are players that will be available that can probably help the team more especially on the defensive side of the ball.

Who are my guys?

I'd rather have hill, worthy, mcclellin, Hightower, randle, wright, Gilmore, zeitler, Alshon in no particular order. Not to mention a trade down.

I think if we are looking for another pass catching TE we'd be better served taking Ladarius green in the 3rd or 4th.

I think there are many reasons to not take fleener in the first.

Rey
04-19-2012, 01:16 AM
. Some people were just to impressed with new englands offense last year.

I think something people fail to look at when they look at graham and gronk is who was throwing those guys the ball and the type of offenses those teams run.

We are very balanced offensively so 1, a lot of those guys wouldn't get those same opportunities here and 2 schaub is good but he's no brady or brees.

Give me Casey as the second TE and I'm good with what we have there. I actually like what I've seen out of graham too. If we take a TE it shouldn't be until the 3rd or 4th at the earliest.

mussop
04-20-2012, 09:23 PM
I think there will be more talented players than fleener on the board. And I honestly believe Casey is ready to be the second TE and play the role that a lot of people envisioned him playing. I'd much rather have casey on the field in the slot or as a second TE than fleener.

No one on the Texans has mentioned moving Casey back to TE. Don't see how having Casey and OD on the field at the same time would be better than having Casey, OD and Fleener.


IMO, there are players that will be available that can probably help the team more especially on the defensive side of the ball.


Don't necessarily disagree with their being defensive players available that could help more.

Who are my guys?

I'd rather have hill, worthy, mcclellin, Hightower, randle, wright, Gilmore, zeitler, Alshon in no particular order. Not to mention a trade down.

hill To big a gamble IMO
worthy is defiantly worthy
mcclellin My guy but the concussions scare me a little
Hightower defiantly
randle have him and Fleener tied as prospects but Fleener wins because of Schaub.
wright not rated as high as Fleener because of speed and height.
Gilmore can't see him lasting this long.
zeitler another one of my guys from the beginning. 10 year starter well worth the 26 pick.
Alshon wouldn't draft him before the 5th round. Too many issues.



I think if we are looking for another pass catching TE we'd be better served taking Ladarius green in the 3rd or 4th.

Maybe not a bad idea.

I think there are many reasons to not take fleener in the first.

I see many reasons why taking Fleener in the first would be a good idea.



I think something people fail to look at when tey look at graham and gronk is who was throwing those guys the ball and the type of offenses those teams run.

First let me say that NE has ZERO influence on why I think Fleener would be a good pick by us. Now, I think some people are forgetting who our QB is, what his weaknesses are and how much we utilize the 2 TE set.

We are very balanced offensively so 1, a lot of those guys wouldn't get those same opportunities here and 2 schaub is good but he's no brady or brees.

Schaub is no Brady or Breeze thats for sure. He is one of the worst deep ball throwers when compared to any of the top 10 or 15 QB's. This is why we need someone like Fleener who can create miss matches in the red zone.

Give me Casey as the second TE and I'm good with what we have there.

Again NO ONE has said Casey is moving TE. Until then I'm going to assume he's not.

I actually like what I've seen out of graham too.

What the hell have you seen? He's had one catch in two years.

If we take a TE it shouldn't be until the 3rd or 4th at the earliest.

This is what is most likely going to happen.

Lucky
04-21-2012, 06:09 PM
Alshon wouldn't draft him before the 5th round. Too many issues.
5th round? Really? Other than weight fluxuation, what are the "many issues" Jeffery has?

mussop
04-21-2012, 07:19 PM
5th round? Really? Other than weight fluxuation, what are the "many issues" Jeffery has?

Sorry should of said to many red flags. Scouts have said he plays the game hard but nothing else. Sorry I can't trust a player with a high draft pick that shows up his last year before going into the draft out of shape. Although I know you already know this, here is some info about him that is well documented.

Jeffery caught just 49 passes in 2011, and appeared to be out-of-shape for most of the season. There were rumors that he ballooned to 250 pounds, though broadcasters politely referred to him as "230+ pounds." Whatever his exact weight, he was clearly carrying the kind of baggage that would spark pregnancy rumors if he were a Hollywood starlet.

Jeffery showed up at the scouting combine in great shape, and he arrived at his Pro Day at a tight 213 pounds, allowing him to run a sub 4.5 forty. Jeffery proved that he can get in shape when he has to, but questions linger after 2011: with his ping-ponging production and waistline, are we looking at a top prospect who overcame a rough patch, or the male Oprah Winfrey?

Jeffery lacks quick-cutting ability, and he spent much of 2011 failing to get separation from defensive backs because he couldn't make tight cuts on his short routes. Weight issues were probably a factor, but even in 2010 route sharpness was not his strong suit.

South Carolina ran a lot of tunnel screens to get the ball to Jeffery, but Jeffery lacks open-field niftiness, so those plays were usually little more than long handoffs for three or four yards. Jeffery and the Gamecocks suffered through an ugly five-game run late in the season when he essentially disappeared from the offense: he had 10 catches for 84 yards in one four-game stretch, interrupted by a five-catch effort against the mighty Citadel.

This was a time of transition for South Carolina, as the team was breaking Conner Shaw in at quarterback after the Stephen Garcia meltdown, but the team really needed its top receiver to be part of the solution, not a pudgy problem.

Scouting reports on Jeffery's blocking vary widely. He may be an example of a "camera's on" blocker, ratcheting up his effort level when he knows he will appear in a highlight. (See: Moss, Randy).


Its more than just fluctuating weight. What is his mindset to allow this to happen at such an important time in his football career? That is a huge concern for a high draft pick IMO. How can you feel comfortable using such a valuable asset not knowing if you will be able to count on him being mentally prepared and in shape to help the team when you really need him? To me that is a bigger red flag than a college player getting a DUI.

Lucky
04-21-2012, 07:53 PM
How can you feel comfortable using such a valuable asset not knowing if you will be able to count on him being mentally prepared and in shape to help the team when you really need him? To me that is a bigger red flag than a college player getting a DUI.
But you said 5th round. Was that hyperbole? Not a 1st round pick, okay. But not even a 4th round selection on a dynamic WR with NFL measurables?

Despite all of the "red flags" Jeffery has more big plays than just about any WR in this draft. I would love to draft the guy in the 2nd, because he would have a huge chip on his shoulder throughout his rookie contract. Some team's going to get a 80 catch, 1200 yard WR in the 2nd round this year.

mussop
04-21-2012, 08:05 PM
But you said 5th round. Was that hyperbole? Not a 1st round pick, okay. But not even a 4th round selection on a dynamic WR with NFL measurables?

Despite all of the "red flags" Jeffery has more big plays than just about any WR in this draft. I would love to draft the guy in the 2nd, because he would have a huge chip on his shoulder throughout his rookie contract. Some team's going to get a 80 catch, 1200 yard WR in the 2nd round this year.

Alot of that has to do with this particular draft class. There are a whole bunch of guys I really like in the mid rounds (3,4) that I really want over someone with questionable work ethic.

I love the hard working, high motor guys that have a passion for the game and loath players with talent that act entitled. Just my thing I guess.

SteveSlaton20
04-22-2012, 12:19 AM
Lots of players boost their stock due to the combine.

Kind of weird to talk about his lack of production and at the same time pimp fleener.


I think if Hannah was in that system with luck throwing him passes he'd have been more productive.

The NFL is full of good te's. Almost every team has one. Sorry, but I don't see the value of us taking fleener in the first.

I think there are other options for TE that can be just as productive in our system.

Hannah was in a spread system with Landry Jones throwing it to him, who's probably a first round QB next year. Fleener was in a pro offense with great balance.

Good mock, don't really like using a 6th round on a K tho, especially when we just used a 5th on a third stringer. if randy is there at the 7th round, great. if not, there are other kickers id be fine with as long it isn't kris brown or neil rackers.

Rey
04-22-2012, 11:50 AM
Hannah was in a spread system with Landry Jones throwing it to him, who's probably a first round QB next year. Fleener was in a pro offense with great balance.
.

That is a good point, but it doesn't really mean much.

I think most would agree that luck was the better qb and pro style offended tend to utilize the TE more than spread offenses which was exactly my point.

mussop
04-22-2012, 11:58 AM
That is a good point, but it doesn't really mean much.

I think most would agree that luck was the better qb and pro style offended tend to utilize the TE more than spread offenses which was exactly my point.

Hanna wasn't used like a traditional TE in that offense.

badboy
04-22-2012, 04:23 PM
Hannah was in a spread system with Landry Jones throwing it to him, who's probably a first round QB next year. Fleener was in a pro offense with great balance.

Good mock, don't really like using a 6th round on a K tho, especially when we just used a 5th on a third stringer. if randy is there at the 7th round, great. if not, there are other kickers id be fine with as long it isn't kris brown or neil rackers.We have to have a kicker and if we can get the best in nation in 6th round why not? We have to compete with too many other teams in UDFA to chance that.

Playoffs
04-22-2012, 08:31 PM
One NFL scout suggested that Stanford TE Coby Fleener "might be the most overrated guy in the draft" because he doesn't block and is more of a buildup-speed threat as a pass catcher.

"He wasn't even the best tight end on their team," the scout said. "No. 11 (sophomore Levine Toilolo), that's the real deal. (Fleener) might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He's awful as a blocker. Despite his workout numbers he's really not a quick-twitch, dynamic-moving guy. He's a straight-line, build-up player." The scout may be being overly critical of Fleener, but his first-round buzz seems to have died down in recent weeks. Apr 22 - 3:15 PM
--------------------------

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Worth noting Charley Casserly has echoed scout's eval of Fleener as "straight-line, buildup player" lacking "quick-twitch" athleticism.

Rey
04-22-2012, 09:41 PM
I see many reasons why taking Fleener in the first would be a good idea.





This is what is most likely going to happen.

I know this is a radical concept, but I actually like what graham has done in pre season.

I didn't specify regular season, you did.

I guess fleener is a terrible option by those standards since he has 0 NFL catches.

Rey
04-22-2012, 09:43 PM
One NFL scout suggested that Stanford TE Coby Fleener "might be the most overrated guy in the draft" because he doesn't block and is more of a buildup-speed threat as a pass catcher.

"He wasn't even the best tight end on their team," the scout said. "No. 11 (sophomore Levine Toilolo), that's the real deal. (Fleener) might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He's awful as a blocker. Despite his workout numbers he's really not a quick-twitch, dynamic-moving guy. He's a straight-line, build-up player." The scout may be being overly critical of Fleener, but his first-round buzz seems to have died down in recent weeks. Apr 22 - 3:15 PM
--------------------------

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Worth noting Charley Casserly has echoed scout's eval of Fleener as "straight-line, buildup player" lacking "quick-twitch" athleticism.

Fleener is going to eat teams alive in the seams.

I don't think he'll be all that with the ball in his hands and u don't see him as a great jump ball guy.

badboy
04-22-2012, 09:48 PM
One NFL scout suggested that Stanford TE Coby Fleener "might be the most overrated guy in the draft" because he doesn't block and is more of a buildup-speed threat as a pass catcher.

"He wasn't even the best tight end on their team," the scout said. "No. 11 (sophomore Levine Toilolo), that's the real deal. (Fleener) might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He's awful as a blocker. Despite his workout numbers he's really not a quick-twitch, dynamic-moving guy. He's a straight-line, build-up player." The scout may be being overly critical of Fleener, but his first-round buzz seems to have died down in recent weeks. Apr 22 - 3:15 PM
--------------------------

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Worth noting Charley Casserly has echoed scout's eval of Fleener as "straight-line, buildup player" lacking "quick-twitch" athleticism.Why didn't you post the comments from the second scout that was mentioned? Almost all mocks I've seen have Fleener in late first to top 8 or so of second.

mussop
04-22-2012, 09:53 PM
I know this is a radical concept, but I actually like what graham has done in pre season.

I didn't specify regular season, you did.

I guess fleener is a terrible option by those standards since he has 0 NFL catches.

Please enlighten us, what is it that Graham has done in the "PRE-SEASON" that has impressed you?

For the bolded Seriously Rey, seriously? Cmon you are better than this.

mussop
04-22-2012, 09:56 PM
Fleener is going to eat teams alive in the seams.

I don't think he'll be all that with the ball in his hands and u don't see him as a great jump ball guy.

HUH??? Are you saying he won't be a great jump ball guy or are you asking someone if thats what they think? I'm confused.

Rey
04-22-2012, 10:46 PM
Please enlighten us, what is it that Graham has done in the "PRE-SEASON" that has impressed you?

For the bolded Seriously Rey, seriously? Cmon you are better than this.

Grahm has done well in pre season.

Go look at the last pre season game from this past year. He did very well catching and blocking.

I think he almost had 100 yards receiving.

I can't see what's bolded, I'm on Tapatalk.

But I assume it's the fleener bit?

My point is that Grahm has shown more on the NFL level than any rookie TE has. Doesn't mean he will be better, but my point is that proving it in a real NFL game shouldn't be the only criteria. You can never prove anything if you never get a chance to.

Same as Casey.

And Casey played some TE last year. Vickers was the starting fb to end the season.

Rey
04-22-2012, 10:50 PM
HUH??? Are you saying he won't be a great jump ball guy or are you asking someone if thats what they think? I'm confused.

That "u" should have been an "I". My typing gets wonky when I use Tapatalk.

But no, I dont see fleener as a jump ball guy. Not that he can't do it, but I don't think he will be looked at to do it consistently like gronk or Grahm or gates.

I didn't see him doing that a lot in college.

Playoffs
04-22-2012, 11:11 PM
Why didn't you post the comments from the second scout that was mentioned? Almost all mocks I've seen have Fleener in late first to top 8 or so of second.I posted what was written on Rotoworld: http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7418/coby-fleener

I don't know what "second scout" you're talking about?

powda
04-23-2012, 11:25 AM
This just in...

"According to multiple league sources, the Colts have ceased all talks with Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck and are seriously entertaining other possibilities with the first pick overall in the 2012 NFL Draft."

Upon being questioned by reporters early Monday morning Colts GM Ryan Grigson had some revealing comments, "To be honest we've run into some contract disputes that we may not be able to overcome with Andrew. As a result we began looking for the next best player. We put a lot of value in our internet scouting department and thanks to contributions from message board posters like mussop, we've decided to draft Coby Fleener with the first overall pick."

Colts head coach Chuck Pagano conducted a telephone interview with various local media and commented, " Fleener gave us the best season when we simulated next year on our madden game station. Besides, did you see New England's offense last year? We really want to overhaul our entire offense so we can be just like them."

In response to this breaking news our analyst and former GM Charley Casserly was critical of the colts, "Hey! See. You have to get value if you can find value, see? What do you do when other teams place a second round value on a player you want? Well you draft him before the second round, see? Now I like Andrew Luck ,but I wouldnt place a high value on the Fleener kid see? He's not nearly the talent of a Philip Buchanon. Hey!"

www.stupiddraftinfatuation.com


Mussop, your gonna give Fleener a career ending hernia cause you wont get off his sac.

Playoffs
04-23-2012, 12:10 PM
"Several sources" tell SI's Tony Pauline that the Texans are seriously considering drafting Stanford TE Coby Fleener with the 26th overall pick.
Pauline also reports that "the other team showing a lot of interest" in Fleener is the 49ers, who draft 30th. Fleener would give Houston an upgrade on Joel Dreessen as a No. 2 tight end. He'd do the same over Delanie Walker in San Francisco, although Walker is a far superior blocker. Fleener doesn't block. Apr 23 - 11:35 AM
Source: TFY Draft Insider

badboy
04-23-2012, 03:34 PM
I posted what was written on Rotoworld: http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7418/coby-fleener

I don't know what "second scout" you're talking about?Here is the quote that Rotoworld quoted from:

1. COBY FLEENER Stanford 6-6 247 4.52 1-2
Reminded one scout of former Cowboy Jay Novacek. "The movement type guy - tough guy you can wham-block with," that scout said. "A smart guy with a real good feel for route running." Compared by others to Todd Heap. "You know, the vertical, big plays, catch the ball and run," said Dominik. "He's more of a long stretch tight end." Named by his mother after former Redskins T Joe Jacoby, whose jersey she spotted on TV. Came out of Joliet (Ill.) Catholic to start 16 of 51 games for the Cardinal, finishing with 96 catches for 1,543 yards (16.1) and 18 TDs. "He wasn't even the best tight end on their team," another scout said. "No. 11 (sophomore Levine Toilolo), that's the real deal. He might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He's awful as a blocker. Despite his workout numbers he's really not a quick-twitch, dynamic-moving guy. He's a straight-line, build-up player. All these reports about him being an athlete and this and that, they're assuming that because he ran fast. He's really just a red-zone, jump-ball player."
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/draftcaps21-vn4vq5o-148344735.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Your quote and the remainder is taken from Milwaulki, Wisconsin Journal Sentinal. I think it is interesting that the negative scout said teammate Levine Toilolo is the better TE but the article said scout was quoted in has Fleener listed #1 and the other guy is not listed top 20 TEs.
To compare Fleener 2011: 34/ 667 19.6 avg 10 TDs
Toilolo 2011: 25/343 13.7 6TDs

These stats are why others have said that Stanford ran a very balanced offense.

ObsiWan
04-24-2012, 06:00 AM
Grahm has done well in pre season.

Go look at the last pre season game from this past year. He did very well catching and blocking.

I think he almost had 100 yards receiving.

I can't see what's bolded, I'm on Tapatalk.

But I assume it's the fleener bit?

My point is that Grahm has shown more on the NFL level than any rookie TE has. Doesn't mean he will be better, but my point is that proving it in a real NFL game shouldn't be the only criteria. You can never prove anything if you never get a chance to.

Same as Casey.

And Casey played some TE last year. Vickers was the starting fb to end the season.

Graham's best game was the last one against Minnesota - you know, the one game where we were shut out all year. Six catches for 71 yds. He had two catches for 19 yds in the other three preseason games.

I dunno. I'd be more comfortable if we had a 6-6 guy like Fleener for Matt Schaub to target in the redzone.

Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to trading back for more picks if none of the stud WRs were available @ #26.

ObsiWan
04-24-2012, 06:06 AM
[quote=badboy;1940309]Here is the quote that Rotoworld quoted from:

1. COBY FLEENER Stanford 6-6 247 4.52 1-2
Reminded one scout of former Cowboy Jay Novacek. "The movement type guy - tough guy you can wham-block with," that scout said. "A smart guy with a real good feel for route running." Compared by others to Todd Heap. "You know, the vertical, big plays, catch the ball and run," said Dominik. "He's more of a long stretch tight end." Named by his mother after former Redskins T Joe Jacoby, whose jersey she spotted on TV. Came out of Joliet (Ill.) Catholic to start 16 of 51 games for the Cardinal, finishing with 96 catches for 1,543 yards (16.1) and 18 TDs. "He wasn't even the best tight end on their team," another scout said. "No. 11 (sophomore Levine Toilolo), that's the real deal. He might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He's awful as a blocker. Despite his workout numbers he's really not a quick-twitch, dynamic-moving guy. He's a straight-line, build-up player. All these reports about him being an athlete and this and that, they're assuming that because he ran fast. He's really just a red-zone, jump-ball player."
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/draftcaps21-vn4vq5o-148344735.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
quote]

See the red:

HEL-LOOO! Isn't that what we want? ...a red zone, jump-ball player. The scout makes that sound like a bad thing.
:wadepalm:

Sounds like the perfect guy to run fade routes to me.

mussop
04-24-2012, 07:39 PM
That "u" should have been an "I". My typing gets wonky when I use Tapatalk.

But no, I dont see fleener as a jump ball guy. Not that he can't do it, but I don't think he will be looked at to do it consistently like gronk or Grahm or gates.

I didn't see him doing that a lot in college.

His vertical along with his height put his hands at ELEVEN FEET when he jumps.

mussop
04-24-2012, 07:41 PM
This just in...

"According to multiple league sources, the Colts have ceased all talks with Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck and are seriously entertaining other possibilities with the first pick overall in the 2012 NFL Draft."

Upon being questioned by reporters early Monday morning Colts GM Ryan Grigson had some revealing comments, "To be honest we've run into some contract disputes that we may not be able to overcome with Andrew. As a result we began looking for the next best player. We put a lot of value in our internet scouting department and thanks to contributions from message board posters like mussop, we've decided to draft Coby Fleener with the first overall pick."

Colts head coach Chuck Pagano conducted a telephone interview with various local media and commented, " Fleener gave us the best season when we simulated next year on our madden game station. Besides, did you see New England's offense last year? We really want to overhaul our entire offense so we can be just like them."

In response to this breaking news our analyst and former GM Charley Casserly was critical of the colts, "Hey! See. You have to get value if you can find value, see? What do you do when other teams place a second round value on a player you want? Well you draft him before the second round, see? Now I like Andrew Luck ,but I wouldnt place a high value on the Fleener kid see? He's not nearly the talent of a Philip Buchanon. Hey!"

www.stupiddraftinfatuation.com


Mussop, your gonna give Fleener a career ending hernia cause you wont get off his sac.
I take it back, you are near sighted. :bender:

Rey
04-24-2012, 07:46 PM
His vertical along with his height put his hands at ELEVEN FEET when he jumps.

I understand that, but I didn't see him doing a lot of that in games.

Those measurables don't always translate to the game.

Im not saying he can't do it, I just don't see him as that type of athlete. Doesn't seem all that sudden to me.

I think he has big play potential. I think he will be a good vertical guy and he will eat teams in the seams. But I don't see the all around receiving ability I'd like out of a first round TE that hasn't shown to be that great of a blocker.

I like fleener. Just not for us at 26.

powda
04-30-2012, 12:33 PM
Fyi. Last night on abc's draft special Kubiak told Bob Allen he thinks of Casey as both a full back and a tight end.

A couple of posters in this thread rested arrguments on the assumption Casey would not be used as a tight end. I know hindsight is 20/20 and im not sure anyone with the organization previously revealed this...but its out there now.

Considering Casey's history and skill set, this wasn't a big surprise for some of us.