PDA

View Full Version : rmartin65 2012 Final Mock


rmartin65
04-12-2012, 10:43 AM
Alright all, the draft is just about upon us. For us draftniks, it is a bittersweet couple of days. On the one hand, all the work that we have put into the draft is about to be rewarded- we get to see how accurately we graded out players, as well as (and more importantly) seeing which prospects will be joining our beloved Texans. On the other, we know that all that work is now obsolete, and it is about time to get cracking on the next wave of prospects.

This will be my final mock draft for 2012. I have thought long and hard about each one of these players, and did my best to balance team needs and what I perceived to be good value. I realize that it is impossible to please everyone, but my goal is that everyone finds this mock acceptable. As always I welcome any praise, criticism or questions.

Enjoy!

Round 1- Stanford TE Coby Fleener, 6’6” 247 lbs
http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Coby-Fleener-Stanford.jpg

Most of us agree that a huge need for the Texans is a number 2 option in the pass game behind Andre Johnson. However, most have turned to the WR corps- Wright, Hill and Randle are all popular picks on this board. However, each of these prospects have serious flaws- Wright is a bit small, Hill is raw and has questionable hands, and Randle is unimpressive on tape, as well as lacking explosion. All of them would be risky in the first.

Enter Fleener. While maybe not a traditional TE in the sense of being a powerful run blocker on the line (although, I will say that this perceived flaw is overblown- he is not a mauler, but he gets the job done), Fleener will create mismatches in the pass game as a TE/WR hybrid. Timed in the 4.4’s, he has WR speed. And at 6’6” 247 lbs (with the frame to add more) he has TE size. Add in a 37” vertical, and DC’s have to wonder- how do you cover this guy? He will blow by any linebacker, and outmuscle any defensive back. He finished the 2011-2012 season with 34 grabs for 667 yards (an incredible 19 yard average) and 10 TDs.

Round 2- Cal ILB Mychal Kendricks, 5’11” 240 lbs
http://calfootballblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/mychal-kendricks.jpg

The loss of DeMeco Ryans has left a hole in the Texans’ linebacker group. While some may feel confident with Sharpton, I am not one of them. Kendricks may be short, but I would not call him undersized, since he is a solidly put together 240 lbs. Experienced at playing both OLB and ILB in the 3-4, Kendricks is a proven play maker, both behind the line of scrimmage and in coverage. He can cover even the quickest of TEs with 4.5 speed, and can really lay the wood against a runningback. He is an excellent blitzer up the middle, which can add a new wrinkle to the Texans’ defense. Now, there is some concern about Kendricks’ intelligence and ability to play inside in the NFL. I think that, while he may not be the most intelligent player, he gets the job done. Cushing will be the captain of the defense, Kendricks will be allowed to just play football. For the season, Kendricks compiled 107 tackles, 14.5 TFL, 3 sacks and 2 picks while battling an assortment of injuries.

Round 3- Michigan NT Mike Martin, 6’1” 306 lbs
http://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Boards/516/79516/411687.jpg

As an OSU student (graduating in the spring!), I have had the opportunity to watch Martin very frequently- and have never been disappointed from a talent evaluation standpoint. While NT is not a need, it is a position that could stand to be upgraded, and Martin would provide that upgrade.

Martin fits the Texans’ 3-4 D like a glove. A blue collar/effort type player, Martin also boasts impressive weight room numbers. His background in wrestling allows him to apply his superior strength to his great advantage, and allows him to both anchor against the run against larger opponents, or split double teams and make plays behind the line of scrimmage. For the year, Martin collected 64 tackles, 6 behind the line of scrimmage, and 3.5 sacks.

Round 4- Oklahoma WR Ryan Broyles, 5’10” 192 lbs
http://blog.newsok.com/photo/files/2010/11/RyanBroyles04.jpg

And here is where we get our Jacoby replacement at KR/PR. Broyles is a first/second round talent that drops due to a horrific injury, and I would be ecstatic to see him on the Texans. While he lacks great speed and size, he earns his keep by having incredible body control, hands, and a “feel” for how to get open. For his career, Broyles caught 349 balls for 4,586 yards and 45 TDs, as well as 108 punt returns for 1194 yards and another 2 TDs.

Round 4- Wisconsin FS Aaron Henry, 6’ 208 lbs

The Texans have had some good luck taking players out of Wisconsin, and I think that taking Henry here will continue that trend. While FS is not a huge need, it never hurts to grab depth/players to groom for the future in case of injuries. And in the pass happy NFL, having a plethora of DBs is a must. Henry is a FS prospect that exhibits great athleticism and a nose for finding the football and making big plays. For the season, Henry boasts of 67 tackles, 3 behind the line of scrimmage, a sack and 4 picks.

Round 5- Virginia Tech OG Jaymes Brooks, 6’2” 310 lbs

Brooks is another guy who, in my opinion, fits the Texans perfectly. He is a mobile guard that plays from snap to the whistle, and gives his all for the team. I think he has starter potential at RG as soon as 2013, and should contribute on special teams as early as next year.

Round 6- Oklahoma State RT Levy Adcock, 6’6” 320 lbs

While this is later in the draft than I originally planned on grabbing a future replacement for Winston, I am still very comfortable with selecting Adcock here this late. Adcock is a big, experienced tackle that has underrated athleticism, which should allow him to not only play in the Texans’ scheme, but to excel. I think he could give Butler a run for his money in training camp, but will ultimately be the back up for a year before assuming starting duties in 2013.

Round 7- North Carolina OLB Donte Paige-Moss, 6’3” 268 lbs
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/donte-paige-moss.jpg

I am swinging for the fences here boys. It is hard to believe that Paige-Moss’ stock has fallen this far, to where it is quite likely he falls out of the draft altogether, considering he was a consensus 1st round pick at the beginning of the year. What happened? Well, Paige-Moss became lazy, and did not flash the incredible athleticism and effort that he displayed his sophomore season. As such, he lost his starting job, and then tore his ACL in his bowl game against Missouri on December 26th. However, when healthy and committed to the game, Paige-Moss was one of the best pass rushers in college ball. And this late in the draft is where you take your “boom or bust” prospects. I actually think his injury could be considered a blessing, as the Texans can IR him straight away, and can take the time to mold him into an OLB. I think that DPM would eventually (2013-2014 season) play around 260 lbs, and be primarily a 3rd down/passing down type player, whose only responsibility is to pin his ears back and go get the QB.


UDFA Target- Michigan State FB Todd Anderson, 6’1” 267 lbs
http://dailyiowan.smugmug.com/Sports/Football-Iowa-vs-MichiganSt-11/i-wD5kjdW/0/L/6f6w1819-L.jpg

Anderson is the big, punishing FB that the Texans lacked last year after Leach left in free agency. While he is not an athletic freak, he is a good enough athlete to get the job done, largely due to his attitude. He WANTS to hit people. He WANTS to blow people up. And that kind of attitude is exactly what you need. As a bonus, Anderson is extremely new to the position, having played the position for only one year, after moving from DE. If he can get his technique down, I see no reason why Anderson could not become the best blocking FB in the league. Now, he was not used much as a runner or in the pass game, totaling only 1 rush for 1 yard gained, and 6 receptions for 40 yards and a TD. He is definitely a work in progress in this area.

beerlover
04-12-2012, 11:08 AM
Great Work as Always. Would have no complaints with this haul :)

Rey
04-12-2012, 11:16 AM
Would have no complaints though there are a few guys I'd rather have in the later rounds. But I'd be happy with that haul.

Dutchrudder
04-12-2012, 12:40 PM
I'm OK with this mock. I would prefer a big WR somewhere in there, but you work with what falls to you. I really like the format of the mock, I wish everyone did theirs like this.

Goldensilence
04-12-2012, 01:01 PM
I'm one of those others that think Fleener would make a great selection in the first. I have doubts about all the WRs you have mentioned but, looking at NE having Gronk and Hernandez....kinda makes you think this wouldn't be a bad route to go.

Overall, I'd be happy with the draft. I'd really love to see Broyles picked. I like his game a lot, even if he's not the burner #1 we'd like to pick.

The Pencil Neck
04-12-2012, 02:07 PM
Because of a work schedule the past 4 months that's been absolutely insane, I haven't been able to pay any attention to the draft this year. I have no idea who anyone is and it's killing me.

BUT...

The past few days I've started looking around.

Although I was leaning toward going WR-OG-ILB in some order in the first three rounds, the past few days I've really been starting to lean toward Fleener as our 1st round pick. It makes me feel better to see that some of you more knowledgeable guys are leaning the same way.

I like this draft. I'd prefer a guard in the spot where you went NT but I'm fine with that pick, too. I like the WR and although I'd prefer a big, fast, outside freak guy, I have a feeling we'll be going more of a smaller, slot, hands guy instead.

Good mock.

TimeKiller
04-12-2012, 02:38 PM
Round 1- Stanford TE Coby Fleener, 66 247 lbs
I can get behind this pick. It does lean toward need but could also be argued BPA. Fills a hole and schematically, could make for some interesting looks. One of the few picks in round 1 that I can't poke a hole in immediately.

Round 2- Cal ILB Mychal Kendricks, 511 240 lbs

Like the player but disagree on value, on my last effort I tried to convince myself to take him here but felt it was at least a round too early. This is a player who if he works out is on the field 50% of the time at the most. There are other more pressing needs and definitely better players available. Plus it kind of irks me that you got ILB depth 2nd but waited until the 7th to get your pass rusher.

Round 3- Michigan NT Mike Martin, 61 306 lbs

Still?


Round 4- Oklahoma WR Ryan Broyles, 510 192 lbs

You've had these two guys pegged for months!

Round 4- Wisconsin FS Aaron Henry, 6 208 lbs

Decent player but this is absolutely as long as I would wait to get a DB, the talent really falls off midway through the draft for these positions.

Round 5- Virginia Tech OG Jaymes Brooks, 62 310 lbs

Pretty solid choice.

Round 6- Oklahoma State RT Levy Adcock, 66 320 lbs

Hope the big fella is still available this late!

Round 7- North Carolina OLB Donte Paige-Moss, 63 268 lbs

The only thing I would say is even if he were available, would you want the guy who has slipped so far? It's only a 7th, no biggie but the guy obviously has issues.

Love the FB. UDFA has some interesting candidates, Derek Moye is one big tall WR. Emil Igwenagu as an Hback could be late round/UDFA gold.

Not bad RM.

rmartin65
04-12-2012, 02:59 PM
Round 1- Stanford TE Coby Fleener, 66 247 lbs
I can get behind this pick. It does lean toward need but could also be argued BPA. Fills a hole and schematically, could make for some interesting looks. One of the few picks in round 1 that I can't poke a hole in immediately.

Round 2- Cal ILB Mychal Kendricks, 511 240 lbs

Like the player but disagree on value, on my last effort I tried to convince myself to take him here but felt it was at least a round too early. This is a player who if he works out is on the field 50% of the time at the most. There are other more pressing needs and definitely better players available. Plus it kind of irks me that you got ILB depth 2nd but waited until the 7th to get your pass rusher.

Round 3- Michigan NT Mike Martin, 61 306 lbs

Still?


Round 4- Oklahoma WR Ryan Broyles, 510 192 lbs

You've had these two guys pegged for months!

Round 4- Wisconsin FS Aaron Henry, 6 208 lbs

Decent player but this is absolutely as long as I would wait to get a DB, the talent really falls off midway through the draft for these positions.

Round 5- Virginia Tech OG Jaymes Brooks, 62 310 lbs

Pretty solid choice.

Round 6- Oklahoma State RT Levy Adcock, 66 320 lbs

Hope the big fella is still available this late!

Round 7- North Carolina OLB Donte Paige-Moss, 63 268 lbs

The only thing I would say is even if he were available, would you want the guy who has slipped so far? It's only a 7th, no biggie but the guy obviously has issues.

Love the FB. UDFA has some interesting candidates, Derek Moye is one big tall WR. Emil Igwenagu as an Hback could be late round/UDFA gold.

Not bad RM.

Fleener- I really am starting to see this as the best possible option, kind of like what happened with Watt. Hopefully he works out just as well.

Kendricks- I think late second is a great place for him. I really like the way he attacks the ball, and is violent in his tackles. Why do you have him as a third rounder? I am concerned about the reported lack of intelligence, but that is about it. I am interested to know your thoughts.

Martin and Broyles- I think they are great fits for the Texans. I could have put other players in to get variety, but I think Martin and Broyles are the best option at that point.

Henry- I think that the 4th is a good round to go DB. We have a lot of young DBs that need to see game time if they are to prove their worth, so I am not rushing to pick a guy earlier. Hell, we traded up to get Brandon Harris and did he even see the field last year?

Adcock- I have a hard time judging where OL guys will go. Actually, I have a hard time grading OL in general. But looking around, the 6th round seems pretty fair.

DPM- I feel comfortable leaving pass rusher this late largely due to the fact that Kendricks has played outside in a 3-4 before, and can move to that position if need be. Between Barwin, Reed, Braman and Kendricks, plus whatever other guys we have/pick up in FA, we are in a good spot. As for him dropping- hell yeah I am comfortable with it. Its a 7th rounder, and it wont be a publicity stunt like Cheta was last year. DPM has his baggage, but he can play ball when his head is on straight. Hopefully being out of football for a while due to the injury, as well as seeing how pros like Cushing, Barwin, and Watt go about their business, will light a fire under this young man.

TimeKiller
04-12-2012, 06:29 PM
Kendricks- I think late second is a great place for him. I really like the way he attacks the ball, and is violent in his tackles. Why do you have him as a third rounder? I am concerned about the reported lack of intelligence, but that is about it. I am interested to know your thoughts.


My bad, I meant the Texans shouldn't go more than a 3rd round on ILB, not that Kendricks isn't worth a 2nd. What do you think now they've signed Bradie James and Tim Dobbins? I like Kendricks, just don't think the Texans will be seeking one out before the 3rd...and now with these two vets signed up, maybe not at all.

beerlover
04-12-2012, 06:55 PM
My bad, I meant the Texans shouldn't go more than a 3rd round on ILB, not that Kendricks isn't worth a 2nd. What do you think now they've signed Bradie James and Tim Dobbins? I like Kendricks, just don't think the Texans will be seeking one out before the 3rd...and now with these two vets signed up, maybe not at all.

Agreed. Expect to see Sharpton starting this fall.

rmartin65
04-12-2012, 06:57 PM
My bad, I meant the Texans shouldn't go more than a 3rd round on ILB, not that Kendricks isn't worth a 2nd. What do you think now they've signed Bradie James and Tim Dobbins? I like Kendricks, just don't think the Texans will be seeking one out before the 3rd...and now with these two vets signed up, maybe not at all.

Well, I had done this whole mock up before James and Dobbins where in the fold... now ILB is not so pressing a need. I have to agree with you now; I have a hard time seeing an ILB taken this early.

I may go ahead and make another mock before the draft, since this impacts my mock quite a bit.

badboy
04-12-2012, 08:02 PM
Same with my final mock; with the new signees I'd change my first to Fleener as BL , 65 and I have discussed. I would draft Burfict 5th.

TimeKiller
04-13-2012, 07:21 AM
Well, I had done this whole mock up before James and Dobbins where in the fold... now ILB is not so pressing a need. I have to agree with you now; I have a hard time seeing an ILB taken this early.

I may go ahead and make another mock before the draft, since this impacts my mock quite a bit.

Yup, fluid process and all. Better hurry before they sign up some veteran TEs and completely ruin your mock lol....

Blake
04-13-2012, 02:57 PM
Thank you for working a Michigan boy into your mock!

I think you did a great job hitting our needs. But I would prefer, and assume that our first pick not be a TE. Kubiak's history just does not support that at all.

If the Texans draft a tight end, Kubiak’s history suggests it will be in the fourth round or later. When Kubiak was with the Broncos, they drafted tight end Jeb Putzier in the sixth round in 2002. With Kubiak in Houston, the Texans have drafted Daniels in the fourth round (2006), Casey and Anthony Hill in the fifth (2008) and Graham in the fourth (2010). Kubiak also coached Hall of Fame tight end Shannon Sharpe, a seventh-round pick in 1990, and Dreessen, a sixth-round pick of the New York Jets in 2006. “We’ve been able to find tight ends later in the draft,” Kubiak said at the Combine. “That’s kind of been my m.o. through Denver and in Houston.”

The Pencil Neck
04-13-2012, 08:45 PM
Thank you for working a Michigan boy into your mock!

I think you did a great job hitting our needs. But I would prefer, and assume that our first pick not be a TE. Kubiak's history just does not support that at all.

That's true. But then, neither did drafting linemen or running backs early. But he's done that, too.

Don't count Fleener out, yet.

badboy
04-13-2012, 09:08 PM
Thank you for working a Michigan boy into your mock!

I think you did a great job hitting our needs. But I would prefer, and assume that our first pick not be a TE. Kubiak's history just does not support that at all.May not have ever been a TE like Fleener. 4.45 40 at that size with good routes and good hands? Use him as a Wr or TE; flanker or slot and a great weapon in the Red Zone. #26? You betcha.

NastyNate
04-14-2012, 07:10 AM
May not have ever been a TE like Fleener. 4.45 40 at that size with good routes and good hands? Use him as a Wr or TE; flanker or slot and a great weapon in the Red Zone. #26? You betcha.

Fleener's blocking leaves a ton to be desired, just doesn't look like a natural blocker. WCO, non-blocking TE's are like black unicorns... They don't exist.

TexCanada
04-14-2012, 10:47 AM
I'm really warming up to the idea of Fleener in the first. He would be a match-up nightmare for most teams.

rmartin65
04-14-2012, 11:04 AM
Fleener's blocking leaves a ton to be desired, just doesn't look like a natural blocker. WCO, non-blocking TE's are like black unicorns... They don't exist.

Dont view him as a traditional TE... Fleener is a matchup nightmare as a TE/WR hybrid.

Plus, like I said, his blocking is being underrated. He will never dominate people on the line, but he gets the job done.

otisbean
04-14-2012, 11:28 AM
Dont view him as a traditional TE... Fleener is a matchup nightmare as a TE/WR hybrid.

Plus, like I said, his blocking is being underrated. He will never dominate people on the line, but he gets the job done.

I almost think Fleener could line up as a WR. To me hes a bigger version Eddie McCaffery, and he runs just as well.

Nawzer
04-14-2012, 11:43 AM
Been on the Fleener bandwagon for a while now. At the #26 spot the BPA may very well be him and not one of these receivers. Fleener give Schaub a huge target in the middle of the field and a legit red zone threat. Like some of you all have said, he can line up as a WR and pluck ball out of the air over shorter DB's. I still think it's a longshot, but I would love to see the Texans make a bold pick like that.

NastyNate
04-14-2012, 12:29 PM
Dont view him as a traditional TE... Fleener is a matchup nightmare as a TE/WR hybrid.

Plus, like I said, his blocking is being underrated. He will never dominate people on the line, but he gets the job done.


I'm looking at him as a fit for our team as a TE.

In that case you should probably look at Ladarius Green in the 4th round. Fleener in the first just doesn't make sense to me, with our draft needs, and our draft history. Green is a poor man's fleener with a lot less bust potential. I don't trust that ridiculous 7 OL scheme Stanford ran every other damned down.

rmartin65
04-14-2012, 12:33 PM
I'm looking at him as a fit for our team as a TE.

In that case you should probably look at Ladarius Green in the 4th round. Fleener in the first just doesn't make sense to me, with our draft needs, and our draft history. Green is a poor man's fleener with a lot less bust potential. I don't trust that ridiculous 7 OL scheme Stanford ran every other damned down.

Why only as a TE? We need a second receiving option. Fleener creates mismatches. It seems like a pretty good fit.

As for Green having less of a bust potential than Fleener, that is laughable. Green is more raw and played against lesser competition, and is not the athlete that Fleener is.

beerlover
04-14-2012, 01:09 PM
Why only as a TE? We need a second receiving option. Fleener creates mismatches. It seems like a pretty good fit.

As for Green having less of a bust potential than Fleener, that is laughable. Green is more raw and played against lesser competition, and is not the athlete that Fleener is.

Around here Tight End aka (TE) is a dirty word :trapstar:

texanchris
04-14-2012, 02:27 PM
Im not a big fan of this draft. While i like the players drafted, the texans most important needs are at WR, OLB and OL and you don't address those needs until the fourth. I don't think the texans would pick a tight end in the first round because they have more important needs and daniels, graham, and maybe casey are all capable of creating mismatches in the secondary. Kubiak has also said that they have had a lot of success drafting tight ends in the later rounds so i doubt he would change that strategy. Looking at the texans 2013 free agents, 3/5 of our offensive line will become free agents so they will probably draft OL early on. Our best OLB will also be a free agent and Phillips said he likes to have a 3 man rotation so that is also a position that needs to be addressed early. While i like Martin, i feel like their are other positions that need to be addressed first. i also don't think we would draft another FS considering we have Manning, Quin, Demps, and Nolan who have all played well last year.

NastyNate
04-14-2012, 02:30 PM
Why only as a TE? We need a second receiving option. Fleener creates mismatches. It seems like a pretty good fit.

As for Green having less of a bust potential than Fleener, that is laughable. Green is more raw and played against lesser competition, and is not the athlete that Fleener is.

Green's blocking>Fleener's blocking.

Yaky
04-14-2012, 03:05 PM
Green's blocking>Fleener's blocking.

LOL. You just lost all credibility with that statement. 27 reps Fleener > 16 reps Green.

NastyNate
04-14-2012, 03:16 PM
LOL. You just lost all credibility with that statement. 27 reps Fleener > 16 reps Green.

You did not play football obviously.

Yaky
04-14-2012, 03:25 PM
You did not play football obviously.

You don't know what you are talking about obviously. Now L freaking Green is better than Fleener. LOL Now I've heard them all.

Wolf6151
04-14-2012, 03:45 PM
You don't know what you are talking about obviously. Now L freaking Green is better than Fleener. LOL Now I've heard them all.

He didn't say Green was a better TE than Fleener, he said Green was better at blocking than Fleener. Just because a player is ranked #1 at his position doesn't mean he's the best as every aspect of his position. I don't know if Green is a better blocker or not, I don't have a dog in this race, but this is how people misunderstand what someone is saying.

Yaky
04-14-2012, 04:03 PM
He didn't say Green was a better TE than Fleener, he said Green was better at blocking than Fleener. Just because a player is ranked #1 at his position doesn't mean he's the best as every aspect of his position. I don't know if Green is a better blocker or not, I don't have a dog in this race, but this is how people misunderstand what someone is saying.

Thing is, Green is not even better at blocking than Fleener. Just read pretty much every report on Green, they basically knock him for his blocking.

http://nfldraftgeek.com/ladariusgreen.html
Not very strong at all. Needs to bulk up and hit the weight room
As of now, blocking is a liability. Will not be used much as an in-line blocker
Not strong at the point of attack, pad level is too high

NastyNate
04-14-2012, 04:38 PM
Thing is, Green is not even better at blocking than Fleener. Just read pretty much every report on Green, they basically knock him for his blocking.

http://nfldraftgeek.com/ladariusgreen.html
Not very strong at all. Needs to bulk up and hit the weight room
As of now, blocking is a liability. Will not be used much as an in-line blocker
Not strong at the point of attack, pad level is too high

"Just read..." dude gtfo. I don't base my opinions on what others blindly state. He's a better blocker than Fleener, although not lightyears, and about the same offensive threat. What I said is that if you're strictly going off of pass catching and mystifyingly lining up a TE as a WR as you suggested (oh no, crazy new concept) there's a crap ton more value addressing this in the 4th round.

How many plays do you think we'll target Fleener or Green? 11? 9? Probably more like 3-4 with the majority being run plays. You don't draft a tall TE without WR capability at #26 when his primary role in our WCO (blocker) will be his achilles heel.

texanchris
04-14-2012, 04:58 PM
"Just read..." dude gtfo. I don't base my opinions on what others blindly state. He's a better blocker than Fleener, although not lightyears, and about the same offensive threat. What I said is that if you're strictly going off of pass catching and mystifyingly lining up a TE as a WR as you suggested (oh no, crazy new concept) there's a crap ton more value addressing this in the 4th round.

How many plays do you think we'll target Fleener or Green? 11? 9? Probably more like 3-4 with the majority being run plays. You don't draft a tall TE without WR capability at #26 when his primary role in our WCO (blocker) will be his achilles heel.
I agree, i think the texans would be better off drafting Green in the 3rd because he is the better blocker and has a pretty high ceiling. If we draft him in the 3rd then we can address our primary needs (wr, olb, ol,) in the first and second round and still get a guy at the tight end position who can block and catch.

rmartin65
04-14-2012, 06:09 PM
I have to disagree on the blocking thing. From what I have seen, Fleener is a much better blocker than Green, and has proven it against better competition.

Also, Fleener has WR ability. He wont be used much as a run blocker, just enough to keep teams honest. Every offense has its own wrinkles. A weapon like Fleener can be an incredible wrinkle.

Dont think of it as TE vs. WR. It is weapon A vs weapon B. And Fleener wins in every single category against whoever you want to match up against him at 26.

Corrosion
04-15-2012, 04:40 AM
Im trying to get on board with the Fleener pick but just cant seem to do it .....

First , he had the highest rated QB to come out of the NCAA's in over a decade and only had 34 catches ? Sure the avg is real good ....but the volume bothers me some.


Secondly , where is he going to play with OD in the picture ..... Do they go to a two TE set as their main offense ? What about James Casey ? Can he line up as a WR instead ? He does have 4.4 speed ..... Does he run good enough routes ? I have a ton of questions surrounding this pick ....


I want a starter out of a first round pick , I just dont see Fleener being that.

I see better option on the OL , DL and possibly LB & WR.


Maybe you can convince me he's the right guy .....

NastyNate
04-15-2012, 09:14 AM
I have to disagree on the blocking thing. From what I have seen, Fleener is a much better blocker than Green, and has proven it against better competition.

Also, Fleener has WR ability. He wont be used much as a run blocker, just enough to keep teams honest. Every offense has its own wrinkles. A weapon like Fleener can be an incredible wrinkle.

Dont think of it as TE vs. WR. It is weapon A vs weapon B. And Fleener wins in every single category against whoever you want to match up against him at 26.

Eh, agree to disagree. Fleener looks like a 6'10" tackle when blocking, uses a ton of reach and pitter patters his feet with little push but never gets under the pads or gets his own pad level down. Anyone with a swim move makes him look ridiculous. Green is marginally better but I'd still take him over Fleener.

As far as WR ability, Green has shown much more, they typically lined him up as a WR at Lafayette, I'd say much more so than Fleener. Fleener was the benefactor of an insanely good college qb prospect plus some fairly jukie 7 OL sets.

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2012, 12:21 PM
Secondly , where is he going to play with OD in the picture ..... Do they go to a two TE set as their main offense ? What about James Casey ? Can he line up as a WR instead ? He does have 4.4 speed ..... Does he run good enough routes ? I have a ton of questions surrounding this pick ....


I want a starter out of a first round pick , I just dont see Fleener being that.

We run two and three tight end sets more than any team in the league and I could be mistaken, but I think there were times last year when we had 4 TEs on the field. Dreessen and OD lined up together last year A LOT; Casey was on the field alot except when injured; Graham got playing time although he didn't get a lot of targets. That multi-TE thing is part of what makes our running game go.

Dreessen's big problem was that he wasn't the threat in the passing game that OD was. We wasn't as fast, couldn't create as much separation, and doesn't have the hands. For me, Fleener is an upgrade talent-wise. The drop off is that Dreessen is smart and knows our offense inside and out. Schaub said that with Dreessen, you could always be confident that he was right where he was supposed to be. We lose that with Fleener.

Fleener isn't an "elite" tight end from the physical standpoint. He's not Gronkowski or Vernon Davis. But he is another Owen Daniels. He's not an in-line blocker that a normal NFL offense is going to require, but for the zone scheme, he could be perfect. He's fairly strong and pretty damned fast and edges on elite. Like a Shannon Sharpe, he could be trained to "get in front of the guy" just enough to be effective.

In the passing game, he's going to create match-up nightmares even worse then OD.

One of the things that Kubiak wants to do is to create confusion on the defense. If we come out with Casey, OD, and Fleener on the field, we could create some crazy havoc. Who's the TE? Who's the FB? Who's... what...? At Stanford, Fleener lined up at every WR position and is really more of an H-Back sort of player.

Now, about the volume of catches at Stanford. Luck spread the ball around. That was his thing. There was only one guy on the team with significantly more catches. Fleener was tied for 3rd for number of catches and the guy in 2nd only had 1 more catch. And the Stanford Offense didn't really throw that much. Luck was 19th in the NCAA in terms of overall completions. That means a lot of other people on other teams got a lot more opportunities. And Fleener wasn't supposed to be the first option.

And, yes, I think Fleener is a starter. If you look at the numbers, over the past three years, Dreessen has started 11, 10, 10 games. Over that same period, OD has started 8, 11, and 15 games. That means that we start off with double tight-end a lot and both OD and Dreesen were "starters." I wouldn't see that changing with Fleener and we might start in 2-TE sets even more.