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View Full Version : Where and when will the Texans find their next QB


pec0sb0b
04-04-2012, 10:22 PM
The changing of the guard at the QB position in the AFC South is underway. Are we ready for that future or will we be scrambling in a 2-3 years to catch up?
Good point...I've been wondering when they will address this issue. TJ Yates was taken in the fifth round not as Schaub's replacement, but rather as a back up. Old school wisdom dictates drafting in the second or third round and having the young QB carry a clipboard for 2-3 years. I hope that this is the way they develop a quarterback, but unfortunately the overwhelming need at the position leads to teams drafting second, third or even fourth round talent in the first round, and starting them before they're ready (Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Tebow).

It seems to me there are only three ways to get a starting QB:
1). Be really, really, really bad like Indianapolis.
2). Trade three first round draft picks for a "lock" prospect like Washington.
3). Trade for a veteran player.

Options one or two presuppose a starting caliber QB is available in the draft. note: I was going to include 2007 as well but the quarterback class that year was just too depressing (think JaMarcus Russell).

Round 1 QBs
2011 - Cam Newton 1/#1, Jake Locker 1/#8, Blaine Gabbert 1/#10 and Christian Ponder 1/#12
2010 - Sam Bradford 1/#1 and Tim Tebow 1/#25
2009 - Matthew Stafford 1/#1, Mark Sanchez 1/#5 and Josh Freeman 1/#17
2008 - Matt Ryan 1/#3 and Joe Flacco 1/#18

Round 2-4 QBs
2011 - Andy Dalton 2/#35, Colin Kaepernick 2/#36 and Ryan Mallett 3/#74
2010 - Jimmy Claussen 2/#48 and Colt McCoy 3/#85
2009 - Pat White 2/#44 and Stephen McGee 4/#101
2008 - Brian Brohm 2/#56, Chad Henne 2/#57 and Kevin O'Connell 3/#94

Round 5-7 QBs of note

2011 - 5/#152 T. J. Yates, 5/#135 Ricky Stanzi and 7/#208 Greg McElroy
2010 - 5/#155 John Skelton and 6/#199 Joe Webb
2009 - 6/#201 Curtis Painter
2008 - 5/#156 Dennis Dixon, 5/#160 Josh Johnson and 7/#209 Matt Flynn

If I, as hypothetical general manager, use a top five pick on a quarterback he should be a franchise player. I think these guys fit that description; Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, Josh Freeman, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco. We could for argument's sake include Mark Sanchez, but I won't. Maybe I'm projecting with Cam Newton, but the talent shown on the field puts him on my list.

So, with notable exceptions, if you want a starter you have to get him in the first round. It's also easy to see which first round selections were picked too early.

Ok, no problem! With the new rookie salary cap it's much easier than before to trade up into the top five picks. Ouch! That's the new problem. Now you have eight franchises all trying to trade up to get one player and you have to give up three first round picks. How many next year, four or five first round picks?

That leaves us at option three. Two good examples we're all familiar with, one good and one bad; Houston-Atlanta (Schaub) and Arizona-Philadephia (Kolb). One team let their scouts select the player and one team let the media select their player and overpaid. Guess which one was which.

Trading for our next quarterback could possibly be a much better value. Remember San Diego dumped Drew Brees after his rookie contract...

Mari-OWNED!
04-04-2012, 10:50 PM
I still think this guy could be the future with more experience in Kubiak's offense...

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/3e/3eff8f5bc64165a73e81d2727bad6af2/tj_yates_super_bowl_champion.jpg

El Tejano
04-04-2012, 10:54 PM
Ok maybe I'm not thinking big picture here but I was also thinking that we have our QB of the future possibly in TJ Yates, if a rookie ever got thrown into the fire it was him and he made some real strides to become a pro last year.

Today, though, I'm watching NFL Network and I see that Rudy Carpenter got released by the Bucs. As I look at my teams current condition at QB I'd like to see us draft our next QB for the future, however when you look at some things that Carpenter has done during the preseason and just the fact that he's already a veteran. I wouldn't mind us spending a low offer contract to obtain that guy since he's most likely going to be a 3rd stringer or compete for the 2nd QB spot with Yates right now.

ObsiWan
04-05-2012, 12:14 AM
Even if you believe T.J. Yates is the heir to Schaub's starting job (and I ain't convinced yet) that still leaves us with no future backup to Yates.

And I, for one, would rather he be someone who can push Yates for the starter roll rather than a "career backup" type guy. No more Dan Orlovsky-types, thank you.

I think that guy ought to be picked up this year so he can start learning the system. Plus, after last year's M.A.S.H. unit experience, I don't see Smithiak going into the season with only two QBs on the roster.

So I call upon the draftniks (because I admit I have no idea) to clue the rest of us in on who might be worthy of a second-day (4th thru 7th rounds) pickup.

76Texan
04-05-2012, 12:33 AM
Even if you believe T.J. Yates is the heir to Schaub's starting job (and I ain't convinced yet) that still leaves us with no future backup to Yates.

And I, for one, would rather he be someone who can push Yates for the starter roll rather than a "career backup" type guy. No more Dan Orlovsky-types, thank you.

I think that guy ought to be picked up this year so he can start learning the system. Plus, after last year's M.A.S.H. unit experience, I don't see Smithiak going into the season with only two QBs on the roster.

So I call upon the draftniks (because I admit I have no idea) to clue the rest of us in on who might be worthy of a second-day (4th thru 7th rounds) pickup.

He's right here in Houston.
I'm not totally sold on TJ (even though I think he may have a shot).
I'm talking about my homie Case Keenum at UH.
IMHO, he's the best QB in this draft class.
If he's about 2 inches taller and some 15 lbs more in muscle, I would rate him as the #1 prospect this year.

And don't think he doesn't fit in Kubiak's offense.
Tomorrow, hopefully I will have time to put up some stuffs in the Keenum's film study thread (college football section).
It will show Keenum operating out of the ZBS, in play action, from under center.

In my homerism, I would take him in the Texans slot in the second round, but I would be absolutely thrilled if we take him in the third.

The smartest QB I've seen in quite a while.

Ryan
04-05-2012, 02:00 AM
I think our QB of the future is still gonna be Schaub. I think he'll play out a new 3 or 4 year contract starting next season. His injury isn't career threatening and if he has to miss a bit of time this year i'm confident enough in Yates.

Maddict5
04-05-2012, 02:28 AM
schaub is just 30 yrs old and thats even a young 30 with the lack of throws schaub has had to make compared to his draft classmates like eli,rivers (bar his rookie season) and big ben who have been starting day 1.... barring serious injury, hes playing out his next contract here at least so bring this thread back in about 5 yrs..

thats alot of time to groom a successor if we dont already have the homemade 'schaub option' right here on the roster already witha playoff W already to his name

Premier
04-05-2012, 02:44 AM
I think our QB of the future is still gonna be Schaub. I think he'll play out a new 3 or 4 year contract starting next season. His injury isn't career threatening.

well this type of injury has been career threatening in many cases, we still dont know how schaub will respond once he is fully healed.. not sure if hes already had the screws removed from his foot yet, maybe he has. arthritis in the foot is a common occurrence and pain when walking. if he is unable to push off his plant foot than he could become quite useless.. we still have a ways to go before were sure what schaub can do..

welsh texan
04-05-2012, 03:24 AM
I'd quit paying failed-starters the kind of money that would net a real starter at another position, and continue to take mid-late round flyers on guys Kubiak thinks he can develop.

In the early rounds, there is a much greater chance of getting value from your picks at other positions, keep on drafting for depth, and letting that depth step in when the starters get paid by other teams.

Yates is going to be a good backup, we can get by if he needs to start, and given that he's slightly better than Schaub in some of the natural ability, who's to say he can't eventually become better than him when he's had chance to develop the decision making and game reading.

I know our hit rate hasn't been great on the late round flyers, TJ is the first to succeed, but its the best way to search for that next guy, and if it comes down to it, there's always guys around like Delhomme (who I thought looked pretty good in his PT) or Garcia who can come in and hold the clipboard mid-season.

In fact, from what I saw, I'd prefer to have had Delhomme under center than Leinart.

Wolf6151
04-05-2012, 03:51 AM
I still think this guy could be the future with more experience in Kubiak's offense...

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/3e/3eff8f5bc64165a73e81d2727bad6af2/tj_yates_super_bowl_champion.jpg

I agree. Now that he's 2nd string he'll get some reps. in practice, along with more experience. I think if he's given a real chance then he has the possibility to be our starter of the future. I think way to many times coaches/organizations prejudge what a players potential is based on where they're drafted and late round guys don't get that real chance to grow and succeed.

ckhouston
04-05-2012, 05:14 AM
His injury isn't career threatening .

:toropalm:

ckhouston
04-05-2012, 05:17 AM
thats even a young 30 with the lack of throws schaub has had to make compared to his draft classmates

Maybe thats because he is INJURED EVERY YEAR!

Just sayin.

El Tejano
04-05-2012, 07:24 AM
He's right here in Houston.
I'm not totally sold on TJ (even though I think he may have a shot).
I'm talking about my homie Case Keenum at UH.
IMHO, he's the best QB in this draft class.
If he's about 2 inches taller and some 15 lbs more in muscle, I would rate him as the #1 prospect this year.

And don't think he doesn't fit in Kubiak's offense.
Tomorrow, hopefully I will have time to put up some stuffs in the Keenum's film study thread (college football section).
It will show Keenum operating out of the ZBS, in play action, from under center.

In my homerism, I would take him in the Texans slot in the second round, but I would be absolutely thrilled if we take him in the third.

The smartest QB I've seen in quite a while.

I agree with this too.

Hookem Horns
04-05-2012, 08:20 AM
Towels?

:kitten:

WolverineFan
04-05-2012, 10:02 AM
I agree with this too.

I disagree. I think Keenum will be a solid backup QB in the NFL, but he's not a starting caliber QB much less a franchise guy. If he didn't play for UH then most people on this board would agree with that, but they won't because they're biased.

Dutchrudder
04-05-2012, 10:19 AM
I disagree. I think Keenum will be a solid backup QB in the NFL, but he's not a starting caliber QB much less a franchise guy. If he didn't play for UH then most people on this board would agree with that, but they won't because they're biased.

Yeah, it happens. I mean c'mon, isn't your man-crush on Mike Martin partly because he's from Michigan? We could probably put together an entire mock of several poster's favorite homer picks.

XI CMURDER IX
04-05-2012, 10:24 AM
Eventually, we will have to spend a 1st or early 2nd rounder on a QB. Much like Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, or Christian Ponder to name a few. Hopefully, we will never do as bad as the Colts did this year ever again. I would expect within the next couple of year however to see a QB drafted early by the Texans.

Also I'm not sure what Nick Foles is rated on the draft boards, but I do think if he is there in the 3rd round for the Texans to take that will pull the trigger on him. Just my personal opinion, with the injury to Schaub and all.

BattleRedRock
04-05-2012, 10:37 AM
I think Yates has the potential to be a starter in the next couple of years, if schaub can stay healthy and learn under him. What i like about schaub is hes a team player and he puts his team first as i noticed him helping TJ on the sidelines giving him pointers and helping with plays where as you look at Manning.. hes on one side of the field and orlovski was on the other. I understood that Peyton takes ALL the snaps at practice bc he is selfish and that is why they crumbled in his absence. However, IF we do draft another QB in later rounds... I like Kellen Moore from Boise St... I know hes only around 6' and a south paw but i believe he has excellent smarts decent arm (better than schaub & lienart) and obviously has a will to win. Keenum can definitely sling but many scouts feel he was successful due to the system as most do with the past Cougar QBs I.E. Kolb

El Tejano
04-05-2012, 10:57 AM
I disagree. I think Keenum will be a solid backup QB in the NFL, but he's not a starting caliber QB much less a franchise guy. If he didn't play for UH then most people on this board would agree with that, but they won't because they're biased.

I'm not biased. I'm a UT fan. Dude put up some good numbers and he was getting hit alot in the process. I also saw one of his interviews and I like what I saw from him as far as determined to prove people wrong. I feel he would be a safe QB to pick right now because he has upside and he doesn't have to be even a 2nd stringer right now.

That said, I recall when Rudy Carpenter came in to Reliant and he looked pretty good. I know people are thinking he is a career back up but I think he has talent for what we are looking for and the only reason he hasn't gotten a chance is because Josh Freeman did so well his rookie season.

I also wouldn't mind going after a guy like Russel Wilson from Wisconsin.

Texan_Bill
04-05-2012, 11:41 AM
I think our QB of the future is still gonna be Schaub. I think he'll play out a new 3 or 4 year contract starting next season. His injury isn't career threatening and if he has to miss a bit of time this year i'm confident enough in Yates.

:mcnugget: Huh?

There have been several players whose careers were ended by lisfranc injuries (Duce Staley and Eric Rhett come to mind and I also think Warrick Dunn). Couple that with the fact that the injury occurred on his plant foot and there is the possibility that he won't ever be the same.

Rey
04-05-2012, 11:46 AM
I like Keenum. I don't get the lak of arm strength stuff...

The games I watched he had good zip on his balls...

I think he'd excel in an offense like ours. Not sure I would spend a 3rd round pick on him, but a 5th or later, sure.

WolverineFan
04-05-2012, 12:04 PM
Yeah, it happens. I mean c'mon, isn't your man-crush on Mike Martin partly because he's from Michigan? We could probably put together an entire mock of several poster's favorite homer picks.

Probably has something to do with it. If he didn't go to Michigan, then I wouldn't know so much about him. That said, I was onto him before the hype train started (Senior Bowl + Combine), even as early as last year I was talking him up.

I was calling him a 2nd round pick last year when nobody knew who he was and boom 1 year later he's projected as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Non-UM fans have seen his ability. Only UH fans are calling Keenum a sleeper or diamond in the rough.

WolverineFan
04-05-2012, 12:21 PM
I'm not biased. I'm a UT fan. Dude put up some good numbers and he was getting hit alot in the process. I also saw one of his interviews and I like what I saw from him as far as determined to prove people wrong. I feel he would be a safe QB to pick right now because he has upside and he doesn't have to be even a 2nd stringer right now.

That said, I recall when Rudy Carpenter came in to Reliant and he looked pretty good. I know people are thinking he is a career back up but I think he has talent for what we are looking for and the only reason he hasn't gotten a chance is because Josh Freeman did so well his rookie season.

I also wouldn't mind going after a guy like Russel Wilson from Wisconsin.

I don't really care about numbers when it comes to Keenum. We all know what the UH offense is and isn't. His production tells me he's capable and that's it. And I like what I see from his as far as attitude and intelligence as well, but I don't see a starting caliber Quarterback when I watch him. I see a solid backup option and there's nothing wrong with that.

I wouldn't mind taking Keenum this year if we're content to let Schaub go next year and roll with Yates. I think Yates has the potential to be a solid starting QB, not a star or anything, but a solid game manager who can get the job done. I could see Keenum as that solid backup behind him.

Not a fan of Carpenter. Good players go undrafted all the time, but QB's don't usually go undrafted out of BCS schools and then hit it big. If you're a lower level guy like Romo was then okay, but if you don't get drafted out of Arizona State as a multi-year starter then it's for a reason.

I like Wilson, but he's very raw. He has a very good arm, but his size is an issue. Size is overrated as far as a deterring factor for a QB, but in his case I see it as a problem. He's way shorter than the short guys who play QB (Brees is the prime example). I see him as a system fit QB. Flutie is really the only guy his size to ever have some success in the NFL and that was after he washed out of the league, had a stint in the CFL, and then came back.

bckey
04-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Too many fans are just blindly thinking Schaub will be right back to 100% normal. The type of injury Schaub sustained has ended some careers. Its much worse for a pro athlete especially a qb's plant foot. To just blindly count on Schaub to be 100% next season would be foolish and I hope the Texans medical staff relays this to the coaching staff and f/o. There needs to be a plan B in place for a worst case scenario. That means the Texans will need to either draft a qb or sign a free agent.

I hope Schaub comes back and plays at the level where he left off prior to the injury. But if he isn't able to or plays poorly are you ready for a full season of TJ and some street scrub. I'm not. And this year is one tough schedule.

El Tejano
04-05-2012, 12:34 PM
I don't really care about numbers when it comes to Keenum. We all know what the UH offense is and isn't. His production tells me he's capable and that's it. And I like what I see from his as far as attitude and intelligence as well, but I don't see a starting caliber Quarterback when I watch him. I see a solid backup option and there's nothing wrong with that.

I wouldn't mind taking Keenum this year if we're content to let Schaub go next year and roll with Yates. I think Yates has the potential to be a solid starting QB, not a star or anything, but a solid game manager who can get the job done. I could see Keenum as that solid backup behind him.

Not a fan of Carpenter. Good players go undrafted all the time, but QB's don't usually go undrafted out of BCS schools and then hit it big. If you're a lower level guy like Romo was then okay, but if you don't get drafted out of Arizona State as a multi-year starter then it's for a reason.

I like Wilson, but he's very raw. He has a very good arm, but his size is an issue. Size is overrated as far as a deterring factor for a QB, but in his case I see it as a problem. He's way shorter than the short guys who play QB (Brees is the prime example). I see him as a system fit QB. Flutie is really the only guy his size to ever have some success in the NFL and that was after he washed out of the league, had a stint in the CFL, and then came back.

Solid feedback. I'd go with Keenum in the 5th too. I'm not spending a high pick on him so that to me would make him worth it.

76Texan
04-05-2012, 12:39 PM
I'm not biased. I'm a UT fan. Dude put up some good numbers and he was getting hit alot in the process. I also saw one of his interviews and I like what I saw from him as far as determined to prove people wrong. I feel he would be a safe QB to pick right now because he has upside and he doesn't have to be even a 2nd stringer right now.

That said, I recall when Rudy Carpenter came in to Reliant and he looked pretty good. I know people are thinking he is a career back up but I think he has talent for what we are looking for and the only reason he hasn't gotten a chance is because Josh Freeman did so well his rookie season.

I also wouldn't mind going after a guy like Russel Wilson from Wisconsin.
It's kinda funny that two of the shortest QBs in this class are the ones that performed the best under pressure. (Kirk Cousins also did pretty well.)

I have yet to reviewed enough of Wilson's tapes (I prefer to watch at least 8 games of a prospect before I render my final judgment), but after 4 games or so, I can see that he's a good one.

When people said that Keenum played in the CUSA, they automatically think that Keenum played against poor defense.
Well, let me say something, a poor defense is one who couldn't pressure the QB enough to save their secondaries' life.
The Cougars line is not very good; therefore, Keenum found himself under pressure a whole lot more than other QBs.

Against a common offense with Andrew Luck (UCLA), for example, Luck hardly saw any pressure (due to the effectiveness of his O-line) while Keenum was under pressure all day.
Yet, Keenum still had a great day, going 30-40 (including a few drop balls and throw-aways due to pressure) for 310 yards and 2TDs.
Luck was 23-27 for 223 yards and 3 TDs.
The numbers are very comparable, but one was doing it without pressure while the other faced constant pressure.

It's the same story when you look back at Keenum's whole career.
He faced common opponents with guys like RG III, Weeden, Dalton, etc. and put up comparable or better numbers under more pressure.

If you're going to draft Luck at number one overall, then Keenum definitely merrits at least a third down grade.

BTW, I've seen both Wilson and Keenum throw at least 50 yards from the LOS, and that's farther than I've ever seen Schaub threw the ball (47 yards).
I've also seen Yates threw 50 yards.

El Tejano
04-05-2012, 12:57 PM
It's kinda funny that two of the shortest QBs in this class are the ones that performed the best under pressure. (Kirk Cousins also did pretty well.)

I have yet to reviewed enough of Wilson's tapes (I prefer to watch at least 8 games of a prospect before I render my final judgment), but after 4 games or so, I can see that he's a good one.


The other thing is I've seen a real leader in Wilson. This guy came on to Wisconsin and turned their season around. I want a leader on the team and that is what Wilson was. It also don't hurt that every badger we've drafted has made our team or been a real impact to the team.

76Texan
04-05-2012, 01:05 PM
The other thing is I've seen a real leader in Wilson. This guy came on to Wisconsin and turned their season around. I want a leader on the team and that is what Wilson was. It also don't hurt that every badger we've drafted has made our team or been a real impact to the team.

I like Wilson a lot.
Even though I have yet to complete reviewing his tapes; the fact that he faced good to decent pass defense day-in and day-out wasn't lost on me.

Wilson was helped by a great offensive line and a great running game, but he did very well on his own accord just the same. I was very impressed with him and wouldn't mind the Texans taking a shot at him either... But he's even shorter and smaller than Keenum... he makes Keenum looks like a giant, LOL!

Kellen Moore, on the other hand, isn't of the same caliber as these two.

HOU-TEX
04-05-2012, 01:10 PM
BBB!

Bring Bucky Back!

http://images.checkoutmycards.com/zoom/e8bb0caa-6b3c-4f0f-bb5a-dd444beec299.jpg

Blake
04-05-2012, 01:39 PM
Too many fans are just blindly thinking Schaub will be right back to 100% normal. The type of injury Schaub sustained has ended some careers. Its much worse for a pro athlete especially a qb's plant foot. To just blindly count on Schaub to be 100% next season would be foolish and I hope the Texans medical staff relays this to the coaching staff and f/o. There needs to be a plan B in place for a worst case scenario. That means the Texans will need to either draft a qb or sign a free agent.

I hope Schaub comes back and plays at the level where he left off prior to the injury. But if he isn't able to or plays poorly are you ready for a full season of TJ and some street scrub. I'm not. And this year is one tough schedule.

Ive never heard of it ending careers. Who's career was ended from this injury?

ckhouston
04-05-2012, 01:39 PM
BBB!

Bring Bucky Back!

http://images.checkoutmycards.com/zoom/e8bb0caa-6b3c-4f0f-bb5a-dd444beec299.jpg

All for it!

76Texan
04-05-2012, 01:55 PM
He's right here in Houston.
I'm not totally sold on TJ (even though I think he may have a shot).
I'm talking about my homie Case Keenum at UH.
IMHO, he's the best QB in this draft class.
If he's about 2 inches taller and some 15 lbs more in muscle, I would rate him as the #1 prospect this year.

And don't think he doesn't fit in Kubiak's offense.
Tomorrow, hopefully I will have time to put up some stuffs in the Keenum's film study thread (college football section).
It will show Keenum operating out of the ZBS, in play action, from under center.

In my homerism, I would take him in the Texans slot in the second round, but I would be absolutely thrilled if we take him in the third.

The smartest QB I've seen in quite a while.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89651&page=3

The link to the vid is up; check post #53 in that thread.

ckhouston
04-05-2012, 02:50 PM
In my homerism, I would take him in the Texans slot in the second round, but I would be absolutely thrilled if we take him in the third.

Most talking heads are saying he goes un-drafted and has to join a camp as an UDFA.

bckey
04-05-2012, 02:53 PM
Ive never heard of it ending careers. Who's career was ended from this injury?

Here are a few links. You can search some more on your own and probably find a lot more information or hopefully Cloak will weigh in on this again for those that have missed his posts about it.

click the box to the right of the paragraph to read the article.
http://www.mendeley.com/research/lisfranc-injuries-in-sport/#

Only saw 1 career ending on this older list
http://lisfrancnews.blogspot.com/

more info
http://odlarmed.com/?p=3451

76Texan
04-05-2012, 02:59 PM
Most talking heads are saying he goes un-drafted and has to join a camp as an UDFA.

Most talking heads thought Gabbert was a sure-fire high first rounder! :spit:

Texecutioner
04-05-2012, 05:49 PM
I still think this guy could be the future with more experience in Kubiak's offense...

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/3e/3eff8f5bc64165a73e81d2727bad6af2/tj_yates_super_bowl_champion.jpg

Good god no.


Yates was terrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know he was a rookie that was thrown into the fire, but everyone would have laughed at any other team that was going to make him their starter or make him their guy for the future. Yates may be capable of being a starter one day, but he'll be one of those QB's that is around 20-32 in the league as far as full time starters go.

We need to find the closest thing we can to an elite QB. We need to do "better" than Schaub the next time around. Not worse, and Yates will never be a multi year top 10 type of QB.

ckhouston
04-06-2012, 09:26 AM
Good god no.


Yates was terrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know he was a rookie that was thrown into the fire, but everyone would have laughed at any other team that was going to make him their starter or make him their guy for the future. Yates may be capable of being a starter one day, but he'll be one of those QB's that is around 20-32 in the league as far as full time starters go.

We need to find the closest thing we can to an elite QB. We need to do "better" than Schaub the next time around. Not worse, and Yates will never be a multi year top 10 type of QB.

Wonder what it would take to get Mallet from the Pats?

rush2112mn
04-06-2012, 10:14 AM
I still think this guy could be the future with more experience in Kubiak's offense...

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/3e/3eff8f5bc64165a73e81d2727bad6af2/tj_yates_super_bowl_champion.jpg

Yates has something special. He showed me some grit and determination.......maybe he could be our Brady in a couple of years.....you never know......

Marcus
04-06-2012, 10:16 AM
Like I've said before regarding Schaub, I'll pay no attention to what they say, but I will pay attention to what they do.

I'm fairly certain that they will take a QB in this year's draft, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit to see them take one early. Not because Kubiak has lost confidence in Yates. It's Schaub that will drive this.

digitalswim
04-06-2012, 04:43 PM
I like to be a U of H homer as much as the next guy but I will be stunned if Keenum can even make a roster. Maybe someones practice squad. TJ Yates is not what I envision when I think franchise QB. In fact anything more than a band aid terrifies me.

I don't expect any QB's crawling out of the wood work this year but I hope they can find someone within the next couple of years hopefully without a noodle arm that Kubiak seems fine with. I'm sick of relying on perfect timing routes, gadgetry and bootlegs. All that stuff is fine but sometimes you just gotta spin one in there with some mustard on it.

Double Barrel
04-06-2012, 05:15 PM
A lot of folks around here were really big on that Vince Young guy awhile back... :whistle:

Wolf6151
04-06-2012, 05:40 PM
A lot of folks around here were really big on that Vince Young guy awhile back... :whistle:


:stirpot: That was just to obvious. :toropalm:

GP
04-06-2012, 09:12 PM
Yates.

People don't want to mess with it, because of the incomplete picture of his 2011 season, but that's fine. He will be the guy in 2012.

Keenum will go in Round 2. Some team will pass on him in the 1st, then pull an Andy Reid and go all "Kevin Kolb" on him in the 2nd. I think a lot of teams are sure he'll slip to the 2nd round...so they feel they can go another route in round 1 and use the 2nd round pick on him.

This is why he's not traveling up anybody's mock boards. It's why he's under the radar. Nobody wants to slip up and show interest in him. You don't stare all glossy-eyed and begin drooling when you see you landed quads on the flop...everybody at the table will fold and you lost a lot of extra money. Teams will wait until the 2nd and hope like hell he's there at their round 2 spot.

Trust me. I'm an expert. ;)

ObsiWan
04-07-2012, 12:11 AM
Yates.

People don't want to mess with it, because of the incomplete picture of his 2011 season, but that's fine. He will be the guy in 2012.

Keenum will go in Round 2. Some team will pass on him in the 1st, then pull an Andy Reid and go all "Kevin Kolb" on him in the 2nd. I think a lot of teams are sure he'll slip to the 2nd round...so they feel they can go another route in round 1 and use the 2nd round pick on him.

This is why he's not traveling up anybody's mock boards. It's why he's under the radar. Nobody wants to slip up and show interest in him. You don't stare all glossy-eyed and begin drooling when you see you landed quads on the flop...everybody at the table will fold and you lost a lot of extra money. Teams will wait until the 2nd and hope like hell he's there at their round 2 spot.

Trust me. I'm an expert. ;)

"Expert" you say....

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQl6ZX6XJZ8hA_ZFjQIKfUhXql60sIc LeCPEd5hPmS7dX6MNqQ

:D

BetaV1
04-07-2012, 01:18 AM
I agree. Now that he's 2nd string he'll get some reps. in practice, along with more experience. I think if he's given a real chance then he has the possibility to be our starter of the future. I think way to many times coaches/organizations prejudge what a players potential is based on where they're drafted and late round guys don't get that real chance to grow and succeed.

The same applies to people never giving a guy a chance because he drafted solely with the purpose of being a backup in this league. It usually ends with failure, such as Kevin Kolb and Charlie Whitehurst. Sometimes, it's a success, such as Matt Schaub. We'll see how it goes with Matt Flynn. I don't think it's the coaches and organisations that prejudice a player's potential at all. In fact, I think it's the fans.

I unfortunately was not on the forums when Schaub was first acquired from Atlanta, but I get the feeling that even then, people poo-poo'ed the move. The guy has far outplayed his expected potential and has practically outplayed 3/4's of the league, yet it still is nowhere near good enough for a lot of Texan fans. Insane. I'm thoroughly convinced that this fan base has the harshest standards of quarterback grading of any team.

Good god no.


Yates was terrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know he was a rookie that was thrown into the fire, but everyone would have laughed at any other team that was going to make him their starter or make him their guy for the future. Yates may be capable of being a starter one day, but he'll be one of those QB's that is around 20-32 in the league as far as full time starters go.

We need to find the closest thing we can to an elite QB. We need to do "better" than Schaub the next time around. Not worse, and Yates will never be a multi year top 10 type of QB.

Thank you for bringing a shred of sanity here. I've been on record as perhaps being Schaub's biggest defender, but even I can understand the arguments of why some won't consider him as an elite quarterback in this league (I do consider him elite, but alas). There's nothing wrong with upgrading at any position, but the desperation to find the next "Joe Montana / Tom Brady" is almost nauseating.

Norg
04-07-2012, 01:55 AM
deping on his health and how he plays Schaub is our QB of the future srsy he could play till his late 30's for us maybe even 39 ,40

DocBar
04-07-2012, 07:45 AM
2011 draft, 5th round. TJ Yates. The next guy comes around in 2023 in the 5th round.

bckey
04-07-2012, 09:28 AM
I read/write posts in this thread like this:

well this type of injury has been career threatening in many cases, we still dont know how schaub will respond once he is fully healed.. not sure if hes already had the screws removed from his foot yet, maybe he has. arthritis in the foot is a common occurrence and pain when walking. if he is unable to push off his plant foot than he could become quite useless.. we still have a ways to go before were sure what schaub can do..

:mcnugget: Huh?

There have been several players whose careers were ended by lisfranc injuries (Duce Staley and Eric Rhett come to mind and I also think Warrick Dunn). Couple that with the fact that the injury occurred on his plant foot and there is the possibility that he won't ever be the same.


Too many fans are just blindly thinking Schaub will be right back to 100% normal. The type of injury Schaub sustained has ended some careers. Its much worse for a pro athlete especially a qb's plant foot. To just blindly count on Schaub to be 100% next season would be foolish and I hope the Texans medical staff relays this to the coaching staff and f/o. There needs to be a plan B in place for a worst case scenario. That means the Texans will need to either draft a qb or sign a free agent.

I hope Schaub comes back and plays at the level where he left off prior to the injury. But if he isn't able to or plays poorly are you ready for a full season of TJ and some street scrub. I'm not. And this year is one tough schedule.

Like I've said before regarding Schaub, I'll pay no attention to what they say, but I will pay attention to what they do.

I'm fairly certain that they will take a QB in this year's draft, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit to see them take one early. Not because Kubiak has lost confidence in Yates. It's Schaub that will drive this.


And then see these posts in the exact same thread like :




I think our QB of the future is still gonna be Schaub. I think he'll play out a new 3 or 4 year contract starting next season. His injury isn't career threatening and if he has to miss a bit of time this year i'm confident enough in Yates.

schaub is just 30 yrs old and thats even a young 30 with the lack of throws schaub has had to make compared to his draft classmates like eli,rivers (bar his rookie season) and big ben who have been starting day 1.... barring serious injury, hes playing out his next contract here at least so bring this thread back in about 5 yrs..

thats alot of time to groom a successor if we dont already have the homemade 'schaub option' right here on the roster already witha playoff W already to his name

deping on his health and how he plays Schaub is our QB of the future srsy he could play till his late 30's for us maybe even 39 ,40


And I wonder where the latter gets the sunshine from. I can understand being optimistic and all but the type of lisfranc injury that Schaub sustained is very serious. There has to be a backup plan in place just in case he can't play at the same level as he once did or even worse never play again. You can't just blindly believe the information that comes from Texans. Research some of CloakNNNdagger's posts on this subject. There is a post on page 2 of this thread with some links about lisfranc injuries. I'm not trying to paint a dark picture here but one of caution. You Schaub sunshiners could be extremely disappointed if he can never return to the same preinjury qb he was. I'm hoping for the best for Schaub because he is one of the good guys.

ObsiWan
04-07-2012, 09:50 AM
And I wonder where the latter gets the sunshine from. I can understand being optimistic and all but the type of lisfranc injury that Schaub sustained is very serious. There has to be a backup plan in place just in case he can't play at the same level as he once did or even worse never play again. You can't just blindly believe the information that comes from Texans. Research some of CloakNNNdagger's posts on this subject. There is a post on page 2 of this thread with some links about lisfranc injuries. I'm not trying to paint a dark picture here but one of caution. You Schaub sunshiners could be extremely disappointed if he can never return to the same preinjury qb he was. I'm hoping for the best for Schaub because he is one of the good guys.

Which brings us back full circle to my original question....

One thing that the AFC blogger may be correct about is that the other three teams in our division are starting to prepare, QB-wise, for the future. Schaub probably has two, maybe three more productive years. In the out years, 2014, 2015... When Luck and Locker have been seasoned by a couple of years "under fire" and are starting to come into their own (that's the worse case scenario for us - best case for us is they're both busts), who is the guy the Texans answer with? Do you really think that Yates is that guy? Will we take a flyer on Keenan? Someone else?

The changing of the guard at the QB position in the AFC South is underway. Are we ready for that future or will we be scrambling in a 2-3 years to catch up?

We'll roll with Schaub for the near term - hopefully he's back to 90-100% - but we need to groom his understudy/replacement. Speaking frankly, I'm not convinced it's Yates.

If I'm wrong and Yates blossoms into a solid, first tier QB, then Yaaay us! If not.... I'm just saying we need to be working on a Plan B.

Honoring Earl 34
04-07-2012, 10:34 AM
If I were the GM and thought I had QB issues ( which they might ) I'd target Brock Osweiler in the 2nd .

80tothezone
04-07-2012, 10:37 AM
I still think this guy could be the future with more experience in Kubiak's offense...

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/3e/3eff8f5bc64165a73e81d2727bad6af2/tj_yates_super_bowl_champion.jpg

I got to agree but can you bank on that? He did show some real problems reading defenses. I think at the vary earliest he is 1 yr away probably two and I 'm not sure that he will ever turn out to be what we would like him to be. Look at HWWNBN he had all the talent and physical gifts but dude couldn't read a defense.

WolverineFan
04-07-2012, 10:37 AM
If I were the GM and thought I had QB issues ( which they might ) I'd target Brock Osweiler in the 2nd .

To be honest, I see nothing special about Osweiler. He's 6'8 and is a pretty good athlete, that's about it. I see nothing special about his arm or his game that tells me he's a future starter.

Honoring Earl 34
04-07-2012, 10:44 AM
To be honest, I see nothing special about Osweiler. He's 6'8 and is a pretty good athlete, that's about it. I see nothing special about his arm or his game that tells me he's a future starter.

I think he has above average arm strength . He has supposedly refined his mechanics which he unveiled at his pro day . I've watched a little bit of him and believe he's the only prospect on the ASU offense .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PowlDsL321Y

If anything at least he recognizes he needs work as opposed to HWNSNBM or VY .

Marcus
04-07-2012, 12:04 PM
I got to agree but can you bank on that? He did show some real problems reading defenses. I think at the vary earliest he is 1 yr away probably two and I 'm not sure that he will ever turn out to be what we would like him to be. Look at HWWNBN he had all the talent and physical gifts but dude couldn't read a defense.

You let the guy at least get past his rookie year before before you decide that he can't read a defense. I know some you hate Kubiak's guts, but at least give the man some credit in determining if a QB has what it takes. And I bet he places the ability to read a defense at the top of the list above strength, accuracy, mobility, and everything else. He was forced to swallow David Carr for an entire season, so that alone makes me think he's not going to be that patient. It won't take him long to figure out if Yates has it or not.

Insideop
04-08-2012, 02:32 AM
This is a good thread and has some good posts on it. I've been thinking about this situation for some time and wondering how it will all play out. My guess is that Kubes will draft another QB this year possibly in the later rounds for development. If someone like Nick Foles falls to the 4th or 5th, they may go for him, or someone like him. But is this the long term answer? I don't think so. The long term answer will only come in to view when Schaub has been cut or retired. How long that will be nobody knows at this point. It may be a year or 10 years, who knows. But I think as long as Schaub can do the job Kubes wants him to do I don't think they go after a QB in rounds 1 and 2.

El Tejano
04-08-2012, 03:33 AM
This thread makes me think that if Ryan Tannehill falls to us some how, Kubiak is going to see a QB from A&M and get an erection, and Smith is going to remember how fun it was to be gangsta this offseason as he goes over how much money he can save on Schaub next offseason if Schaub doesn't get us to at least the AFC Championship, while Bob Mcnair starts to think of how he can win back the hometown fans by drafting a familiar QB face from A&M

ckhouston
04-08-2012, 08:07 AM
deping on his health and how he plays Schaub is our QB of the future srsy he could play till his late 30's for us maybe even 39 ,40

If that is the case we are doomed as a franchise. I would be highly surprised to see Matt get extended at all. More likely if he shows signs of life they trade him for a mid-rouind pick next year. If a miracle happened and he can play day one and has a great year, and lets say hypothetically wins the SuperBowl ... I still wouldnt give him more than a two year deal. He wont stay healthy.

ckhouston
04-08-2012, 08:10 AM
If I were the GM and thought I had QB issues ( which they might ) I'd target Brock Osweiler in the 2nd .

I like this kid. You cant teach 6'8" and he has a rocket for an arm. Raw but would be a nice project. Let Yates have the reigns while Schaub is recovering and we are determining whether he will be able to come back at full speed, or at all. Have Osweiler as our #3 learning the system. I think however, he may still be there in the 3rd.

ckhouston
04-08-2012, 08:14 AM
I see nothing special about his arm

The consensus is that he has the strongest arm in the draft. Over RG3 or Luck, etc.

ckhouston
04-08-2012, 08:15 AM
This thread makes me think that if Ryan Tannehill falls to us some how, Kubiak is going to see a QB from A&M and get an erection, and Smith is going to remember how fun it was to be gangsta this offseason as he goes over how much money he can save on Schaub next offseason if Schaub doesn't get us to at least the AFC Championship, while Bob Mcnair starts to think of how he can win back the hometown fans by drafting a familiar QB face from A&M

No way Tannehill falls, he goes top 10 probably, for sure top 15.

G27RR
04-08-2012, 11:54 AM
The consensus is that he has the strongest arm in the draft. Over RG3 or Luck, etc.

Arm strength isn't everything. He completed just 45% of his redzone passes, and is prone to being intercepted at times (multiple INTs in six games last year, lost five of those). His overall completion percentage isn't outstanding, either. He shows some promise, but probably should have stayed for one more year to work on his accuracy and decision making (and have more than 15 starts).

BattleRedRock
04-08-2012, 12:00 PM
You let the guy at least get past his rookie year before before you decide that he can't read a defense. I know some you hate Kubiak's guts, but at least give the man some credit in determining if a QB has what it takes. And I bet he places the ability to read a defense at the top of the list above strength, accuracy, mobility, and everything else. He was forced to swallow David Carr for an entire season, so that alone makes me think he's not going to be that patient. It won't take him long to figure out if Yates has it or not.

Forced?! from my understanding they were gonna draft a QB and gary said no dont draft a qb yet bc i think i can make this guy a decent qb.. im 100% sure he said that!

Marcus
04-08-2012, 12:47 PM
Forced?! from my understanding they were gonna draft a QB and gary said no dont draft a qb yet bc i think i can make this guy a decent qb.. im 100% sure he said that!

What anal orifice did you pull that out of? Carr was McNair's boy, and he was the one who signed Carr to the extension. Kubiak went along with it so he could get the job.

****! We're not going to go there again, are we?

coon
04-08-2012, 12:48 PM
It's nice to see someone else who likes Osweiler. He can probably be had in the third and should be seriously considered. He has every tool you can want in your QB and will be much more accurate after Kubiak works out the kinks in his footwork. He is the third best QB in this draft in my opinion. He made some bad decisions but was asked to carry a bad team. Tannehill made as many if not more bad decisions on a much more talented team with better skill players.

badboy
04-08-2012, 01:22 PM
You let the guy at least get past his rookie year before before you decide that he can't read a defense. I know some you hate Kubiak's guts, but at least give the man some credit in determining if a QB has what it takes. And I bet he places the ability to read a defense at the top of the list above strength, accuracy, mobility, and everything else. He was forced to swallow David Carr for an entire season, so that alone makes me think he's not going to be that patient. It won't take him long to figure out if Yates has it or not.Just curious, how was Gary forced to swallow Carr? Kubiak told McNair he could work with David. Even if we are to believe that Kubiak thought that was his way to get the job, it was his choice.

infantrycak
04-08-2012, 03:14 PM
Just curious, how was Gary forced to swallow Carr? Kubiak told McNair he could work with David. Even if we are to believe that Kubiak thought that was his way to get the job, it was his choice.

Would you like to be shot through the head or through the heart? It was his choice becomes an absurd argument at times.

Insideop
04-08-2012, 05:23 PM
Would you like to be shot through the head or through the heart? It was his choice becomes an absurd argument at times.

I vote HEAD SHOT for whoever brought up "that name" again and turned this into another HWSNBN thread! :gun:

:D

ObsiWan
04-08-2012, 07:22 PM
I vote HEAD SHOT for whoever brought up "that name" again and turned this into another HWSNBN thread! :gun:

:D

Agreed... let's not let this thread degenerate into yet another HWSNBN argument
:handshake:

Texan_Bill
04-08-2012, 08:25 PM
HWSNBN???

David Carr or Vince Young or Ryan "I love my Oxi-cotton" Leaf????? :turtle:

kiwitexansfan
04-08-2012, 08:38 PM
HWSNBN???

David Carr or Vince Young or Ryan "I love my Oxi-cotton" Leaf????? :turtle:

Has Carr had a better pro career than VY?

G27RR
04-08-2012, 09:14 PM
Has Carr had a better pro career than VY?

Super Bowl rings:
Carr - 1
VY -none
:kitten:

Dutchrudder
04-08-2012, 09:37 PM
Super Bowl rings:
Carr - 1
VY -none
:kitten:

Madden Covers:
VY - 1
Carr - 0

Honoring Earl 34
04-08-2012, 09:49 PM
Madden Covers:
VY - 1
Carr - 0

1st , 2nd , and a 3rd .

HuttoKarl
04-09-2012, 09:07 AM
I think Tannehill drops and Kubiak gets an Aggie Boner and we get our next QB.

WolverineFan
04-09-2012, 09:44 AM
I think Tannehill drops and Kubiak gets an Aggie Boner and we get our next QB.

No chance he drops out of the top 10. Some QB desperate team is going to leverage their entire future on him.

Rey
04-09-2012, 10:17 AM
No chance he drops out of the top 10. Some QB desperate team is going to leverage their entire future on him.

That may happen, or it may not.

The NFL tends to go on trends based on prior years.

A lot of teams reached on QB's last year that may not become franchise guys, so I wouldn't be surprised to see teams go in the opposite direction this year.

Last year was kind of rare with 3 QB's going in the top 10 and 4 in the top 12.Yes it happens, but more often than not it doesn't.

I would not be surprised to see a lot of these teams that have shown interest in Tannehill pass him up with their first round picks and try to trade back up into the first like the Browns did for Brady Quinn.

I think it's very likely he goes in the top half of the draft, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if he fell. Look at Rodgers when Alex Smith was taken with the #1.

Dutchrudder
04-09-2012, 11:13 AM
No chance he drops out of the top 10. Some QB desperate team is going to leverage their entire future on him.

Ummm, what? If the Dolphins take him with the 8th pick, I wouldn't call it their entire future. It's one pick, and no one is trading their whole draft to move up and get him at #3.

El Tejano
04-09-2012, 11:45 AM
That may happen, or it may not.

The NFL tends to go on trends based on prior years.

A lot of teams reached on QB's last year that may not become franchise guys, so I wouldn't be surprised to see teams go in the opposite direction this year.

Last year was kind of rare with 3 QB's going in the top 10 and 4 in the top 12.Yes it happens, but more often than not it doesn't.

I would not be surprised to see a lot of these teams that have shown interest in Tannehill pass him up with their first round picks and try to trade back up into the first like the Browns did for Brady Quinn.

I think it's very likely he goes in the top half of the draft, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if he fell. Look at Rodgers when Alex Smith was taken with the #1.

I agree with this. Alot of the QB hungry teams might just wait and see because there will still be some good talent in the 2nd round on those QBs and Tannehill could fall for that reason alone.

Indianapolis (2-14) Going with Luck
Washington - from St. Louis (2-14) Most likely getting RG3
Minnesota (3-13) Already drafted QB round 1 laster year

Cleveland (4-12) Already have Colt and may go after a RB or WR to add to Colt.

Tampa Bay (4-12) Got their QB in Freeman.

St. Louis - from Washington (5-11) Already got a QB

Jacksonville (5-11) Possibly but they already drafted a QB last year and got an investment in him. They most likely could go for a WR.

Miami (6-10) Matt Moore played well for them and they could afford to wait til the 2nd round. I could see them adding a WR now they lost Marshall.
Carolina (6-10) Cam Newton

Buffalo (6-10) They just paid boat loads for their current QB

Kansas City (7-9) Cassel is who they like.

Seattle (7-9) Matt Flynn

Arizona (8-8) Kolb and the 2nd stringer are going to battle it out.

Dallas (8-8) Got other needs

Philadelphia (8-8) Got other needs

New York Jets (8-8) If you don't know who they have, you don't need to watch football anymore.

Cincinnati - from Oakland (8-8) They got their QB

San Diego (8-8) Rivers

Chicago (8-8) Cutler

Tennessee (9-7) Locker and Hasselbeck

Cincinnati* (9-7)They got their QB

Cleveland - from Atlanta* (10-6) If he falls here, Cleveland could still take him but you have to assume that if Kendall Wright is still here, they go ahead and take him after drafting Trent Richardson earlier and take a gamble in the 2nd for Tannehill and settle for Weeden if they have to.[/COLOR

]Detroit* (10-6) [COLOR="blue"]They got their QBs

Pittsburgh* (12-4)


Denver* (8-8) Well again, if you don't know who their QB is now, please stop watching football.

Houston* (10-6) Former Aggie QB as the head coach, smiling, a GM who is trying to clear cap space for next year with a huge contract pending for his current starting QB who has an injury that I believe noone is sure of and the possibility that he could get hurt, yet again, and would be stuck having to settle for Yates again if he doesn't pick up a QB now.

I'm sorry but he could very easily fall out of the top 15.

WolverineFan
04-09-2012, 03:32 PM
Ummm, what? If the Dolphins take him with the 8th pick, I wouldn't call it their entire future.

The Dolphins have a serviceable QB right now in Matt Moore. If they take Tannehill, sure its one pick, but they will give him the keys right away and let him go whether he's ready or not. If he is then congrats you got your QB, if he's not they will work with him for 3-4 years before admitting it and moving on. Either way, if you take him you're leveraging quite a bit on him being "the guy". If he's not then you just wasted the last 4-5 years and have to start. Sure it's not their "entire future" but I think you know what I mean.

It's one pick, and no one is trading their whole draft to move up and get him at #3.

I disagree. I think somebody will trade up and take him. Just like Jax traded up for Gabbert last year and the Vikes traded up for Ponder. With the new CBA its not as big a risk financially to do so and I think QB needy teams are going to go mad trying to find their guy.

^^^

HuttoKarl
04-09-2012, 03:40 PM
Ummm, what? If the Dolphins take him with the 8th pick, I wouldn't call it their entire future. It's one pick, and no one is trading their whole draft to move up and get him at #3.

I tried to rep you but this damn thing won't let me.

badboy
04-09-2012, 03:50 PM
Madden Covers:
VY - 1
Carr - 0Covers for strip clubs?

badboy
04-09-2012, 04:38 PM
Arm strength isn't everything. He completed just 45% of his redzone passes, and is prone to being intercepted at times (multiple INTs in six games last year, lost five of those). His overall completion percentage isn't outstanding, either. He shows some promise, but probably should have stayed for one more year to work on his accuracy and decision making (and have more than 15 starts).What are you talking about: 63% 8 per attempt, 4,036 yds, 26 TDs and 13 INTs.

Dutchrudder
04-09-2012, 05:13 PM
I disagree. I think somebody will trade up and take him. Just like Jax traded up for Gabbert last year and the Vikes traded up for Ponder. With the new CBA its not as big a risk financially to do so and I think QB needy teams are going to go mad trying to find their guy.

That could happen, but I don't think it's likely. I would agree that Tannehill doesn't drop past #8 or out of the top 10 as was your original point upthread. His former HC in college is the new OC at Miami, and I just can't see them passing him up. He will be had by them or Cleveland in the top 8 for sure, regardless of whether or not his talents warrant that high of a pick. Other than Cleveland and Miami, I don't see a team within the top 15 that would be willing to actually give up a king's ransom to move into the 3-7 spot to pick him. El Tejano did a pretty good job of laying out the QB needs around the league, and I have to agree with him that most teams are set with their QBs for 2012. I'm pretty sure Miami knows that they have about a 75% chance of picking Tannehill at #8 right now. Only way I see them jumping up is if Cleveland trades down to 5/6/7.


I tried to rep you but this damn thing won't let me.

It's broken because my rep is so high that it can't take any more. If I get any more rep the server will have to divide by zero and it will cause the forum to implode.

G27RR
04-09-2012, 05:58 PM
What are you talking about: 63% 8 per attempt, 4,036 yds, 26 TDs and 13 INTs.

63% overall doesn't mean his redzone % didn't suck, the 13 INTs were in some bad games. Overall numbers don't always tell the whole story, and 63% overall isn't outstanding. Most guys lose something like 5-10% going from college to pros, meaning he projects to just 53%-58% in the pros.

He has potential, but he could have benfitted from some more starts before going to the draft.

Texecutioner
04-09-2012, 06:40 PM
People that are actually clamoring for TJ Yates really shouldn't ever clown on guys like Gabbert or Tebow, or talk about about veteran QB's like Flacco or Jason Campbell, because that's about as good as Yates will ever have the potential to be.

If Yates was on the Jags or the Titans people would be laughing like hell at the guy.

GP
04-09-2012, 06:40 PM
Dallas (8-8) Got other needs

Dallas is my pick for who will go after Tannehill.

Jerry makes a move to push Romo to greatness or off the cliff to the rocky surf below.

badboy
04-09-2012, 08:32 PM
63% overall doesn't mean his redzone % didn't suck, the 13 INTs were in some bad games. Overall numbers don't always tell the whole story, and 63% overall isn't outstanding. Most guys lose something like 5-10% going from college to pros, meaning he projects to just 53%-58% in the pros.

He has potential, but he could have benfitted from some more starts before going to the draft.Many are predicting Tannehill to go top 8 and he has 61.6% & TDs to INTs almost exactly same.

Texan_Bill
04-09-2012, 08:43 PM
Madden Covers:
VY - 1
Carr - 0

I wish it was 1-1... Only HWSNBN's cover was 2002 thru 2006. :kitten:

G27RR
04-09-2012, 08:43 PM
Many are predicting Tannehill to go top 8 and he has 61.6% & TDs to INTs almost exactly same.

I know, but he shouldn't be going that high. He's going based more on potential than well-proven, top eight talent, and because a team will be desperate enough to draft him that high. He should be late first at best to mid-second based on his actual performance to date, but we always see QBs overdrafted and you wind up with people having years like Gabbert. (Not saying he'll be Gabbert, just making a point)

badboy
04-09-2012, 08:50 PM
I know, but he shouldn't be going that high. He's going based more on potential than well-proven, top eight talent, and because a team will be desperate enough to draft him that high. He should be late first at best to mid-second based on his actual performance to date, but we always see QBs overdrafted and you wind up with people having years like Gabbert. (Not saying he'll be Gabbert, just making a point)Tannehil will go first round but I agree he should be mid second at best. I have Osweiler in 3rd.

Texan_Bill
04-09-2012, 08:50 PM
Many are predicting Tannehill to go top 8 and he has 61.6% & TDs to INTs almost exactly same.

Why?? Top 8 QB's? Or a top eight pick in the first round?

I've seen where some folks have Tannehill going in the second round, at the highest. Meaning he will be picked around the 8th QB in this draft, but definitely not a first rounder. This coming from an Aggie (Coog, Bearkat, Terrapin, Game **** and whatever the hell Central Texas State's mascot is)...

*EDIT*
YES, I redefined "transient student"!

G27RR
04-10-2012, 08:59 AM
Why?? Top 8 QB's? Or a top eight pick in the first round?

I've seen where some folks have Tannehill going in the second round, at the highest. Meaning he will be picked around the 8th QB in this draft, but definitely not a first rounder. This coming from an Aggie (Coog, Bearkat, Terrapin, Game **** and whatever the hell Central Texas State's mascot is)...

*EDIT*
YES, I redefined "transient student"!

Some recent mocks have him going to Miami early in the first round. Way too high to me. Some talk is out there about Cleveland, too. (Can't see them using their 4th, but you never know, maybe their 22nd)

(Example: both McShay and Kiper are putting him at 8 with Miami, FWIW)

G27RR
04-10-2012, 09:00 AM
Tannehil will go first round but I agree he should be mid second at best. I have Osweiler in 3rd.

A 3rd for Osweiler wouldn't surprise me.

Texan_Bill
04-10-2012, 09:28 AM
Some recent mocks have him going to Miami early in the first round. Way too high to me. Some talk is out there about Cleveland, too. (Can't see them using their 4th, but you never know, maybe their 22nd)

(Example: both McShay and Kiper are putting him at 8 with Miami, FWIW)

I mean no offense to Ryan, but if true, Miami and Cleveland are desperate.

GP
04-10-2012, 09:29 AM
Jerry Jones could very well select Tannehill and attempt to make a QB "steal of the draft."

He has to be concerned about Romo's inability to consistently win games and lift the team to new heights. This could be Jerry's chance to take a QB and have an escape plan if Romo falters in 2012.

El Tejano
04-10-2012, 10:34 AM
Jerry Jones could very well select Tannehill and attempt to make a QB "steal of the draft."

He has to be concerned about Romo's inability to consistently win games and lift the team to new heights. This could be Jerry's chance to take a QB and have an escape plan if Romo falters in 2012.

While increasing Nacho sales amongst the natives.

drs23
04-10-2012, 04:42 PM
Jerry Jones could very well select Tannehill and attempt to make a QB "steal of the draft."

He has to be concerned about Romo's inability to consistently win games and lift the team to new heights. This could be Jerry's chance to take a QB and have an escape plan if Romo falters in 2012.

I thunk Orton was skeletor's parachute. :rake:

76Texan
04-11-2012, 03:30 PM
It's nice to see someone else who likes Osweiler. He can probably be had in the third and should be seriously considered. He has every tool you can want in your QB and will be much more accurate after Kubiak works out the kinks in his footwork. He is the third best QB in this draft in my opinion. He made some bad decisions but was asked to carry a bad team. Tannehill made as many if not more bad decisions on a much more talented team with better skill players.

The way I see it, Osweiler will have a hard time adjusting to the NFL.

He played in the shotgun spread at ASU.
He's too tall, and that will be a serious disadvantage switching to the Texans WCO.
The way Myers snaps the ball, Schaub had to get down really low to get it.
Osweiler will have a big problem there.

Osweiler is a turnover machine because he's so big; there's just a lot of surface for defenders to hit him causing several fumbles. The hitting is not going to lessen in the NFL.

He's a good athlete for his size, but he's a bit clumsy for the NFL.

I like neither him, nor Tannehill, but IMHO, the later has better potential than the former.

76Texan
04-11-2012, 04:25 PM
Arm strength isn't everything. He completed just 45% of his redzone passes, and is prone to being intercepted at times (multiple INTs in six games last year, lost five of those). His overall completion percentage isn't outstanding, either. He shows some promise, but probably should have stayed for one more year to work on his accuracy and decision making (and have more than 15 starts).

What are you talking about: 63% 8 per attempt, 4,036 yds, 26 TDs and 13 INTs.

63% overall doesn't mean his redzone % didn't suck, the 13 INTs were in some bad games. Overall numbers don't always tell the whole story, and 63% overall isn't outstanding. Most guys lose something like 5-10% going from college to pros, meaning he projects to just 53%-58% in the pros.

He has potential, but he could have benfitted from some more starts before going to the draft.

Read post #31 and #32 in this thread:
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91020&page=2

Osweiler in the shotgun spread was similar to Weeden.
A lot of his throws were behind the LOS or short passes within 7 yards of the LOS. These made for easier completions as opposed to Tannehill in a pro-style offense.

Also, don't forget that in the NFL, the QB has to throw from tight space (there are plenty of time when he can't step up the pocket); Osweiler will have problem in this area as well. His height/length works to his disadvantage here.

CloakNNNdagger
04-11-2012, 05:44 PM
The way I see it, Osweiler will have a hard time adjusting to the NFL.

He played in the shotgun spread at ASU.
He's too tall, and that will be a serious disadvantage switching to the Texans WCO.
The way Myers snaps the ball, Schaub had to get down really low to get it.
Osweiler will have a big problem there.

Osweiler is a turnover machine because he's so big; there's just a lot of surface for defenders to hit him causing several fumbles. The hitting is not going to lessen in the NFL.

He's a good athlete for his size, but he's a bit clumsy for the NFL.

I like neither him, nor Tannehill, but IMHO, the later has better potential than the former.

Osweiler is bigger and with a big arm........which if you watched him, he had a consistent problem with overthrowing his receivers.....short or long. He would never fit the Texans offense. If you think that Schaub is immobile..........imagine Schaub running a bootleg on stilts...........

76Texan
04-12-2012, 12:25 AM
Osweiler is bigger and with a big arm........which if you watched him, he had a consistent problem with overthrowing his receivers.....short or long. He would never fit the Texans offense. If you think that Schaub is immobile..........imagine Schaub running a bootleg on stilts...........

LOL!

Also, Osweiler telegraphed a lot of throws.
As mentioned by Gruden on his QB camp, with Osweiler being nearly 6'7, the defenders can read his eyes pretty well. It's a 2-way street.

BigSmooth1269
04-12-2012, 09:12 AM
I think Yates has the potential to be a starter in the next couple of years, if schaub can stay healthy and learn under him. What i like about schaub is hes a team player and he puts his team first as i noticed him helping TJ on the sidelines giving him pointers and helping with plays where as you look at Manning.. hes on one side of the field and orlovski was on the other. I understood that Peyton takes ALL the snaps at practice bc he is selfish and that is why they crumbled in his absence. However, IF we do draft another QB in later rounds... I like Kellen Moore from Boise St... I know hes only around 6' and a south paw but i believe he has excellent smarts decent arm (better than schaub & lienart) and obviously has a will to win. Keenum can definitely sling but many scouts feel he was successful due to the system as most do with the past Cougar QBs I.E. Kolb

I like what you said until you got to Kellen Moore. Yeah he is smart but to say he has a better arm than Schaub and lienart is a complete lie. He is noodle armed and Lienart might have a better arm than him. And Schaub have a weak arm? He definitely airs it out and can throw the ball pretty hard though Yates definitely has strongest arm on the team. I like Moore and he is a winner but that can only take you so far.

ckhouston
04-12-2012, 06:29 PM
I like what you said until you got to Kellen Moore. Yeah he is smart but to say he has a better arm than Schaub and lienart is a complete lie. He is noodle armed and Lienart might have a better arm than him. And Schaub have a weak arm? He definitely airs it out and can throw the ball pretty hard though Yates definitely has strongest arm on the team. I like Moore and he is a winner but that can only take you so far.

I liked what he said until ... well, never. Schaub a TEAM PLAYER? He was laughing on the sidelines when Yates was throwing picks in the playoffs. Sooner we are rid of that cancer the better.

Rey
04-12-2012, 06:57 PM
I liked what he said until ... well, never. Schaub a TEAM PLAYER? He was laughing on the sidelines when Yates was throwing picks in the playoffs. Sooner we are rid of that cancer the better.

First I heard of that.

speedfreek
04-20-2012, 10:27 PM
for you guys wanting some arm strength numbers..

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2012/03/12/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

TJ

ObsiWan
04-21-2012, 03:31 AM
First I heard of that.

Me too. And I noticed there was no link or photo.

ckhouston
04-21-2012, 08:32 AM
Me too. And I noticed there was no link or photo.

Yeah, I posted that before being told that in order to post anything you had to have six witnesses and DNA proof what you say is valid. It was simply an observation while watching the playoffs that Matt was shown on the sidelines more than once laughing it up and smiling while TJ struggled. Really doesnt matter. My opinion of Matt is well documented. The Texans need a QB ... period. They have never had a legitimate one.