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HOU-TEX
03-30-2012, 03:23 PM
Kinda surprising, buy happy he decided to stay.

Kevin Walter agreed to cut his 2012 base salary from $3.5 million to $2 million on March 16.
The move cleared $1.5 million in salary cap space. The Texans may have threatened to release Walter before the "restructuring." Walter didn't get a signing bonus to compensate for his salary loss, however; he's just going to be paid less. Likewise, look for Walter's role to decrease on offense this year.

http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football

b0ng
03-30-2012, 03:26 PM
Things gettin real this offseason.

SCOTTexans
03-30-2012, 03:29 PM
Kinda surprising, buy happy he decided to stay.



http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football

Glad he took the pay cut instead of being released... I like the way he plays but he wasn't worth the $.

I really like his outlook on the game when he talk on 945 the buzz during the season

mattieuk
03-30-2012, 03:29 PM
Wow - good deal for the team's finances - and great that KW is sticking around. I guess he wasn't too optimistic about his FA value...

I still think they've given him a double locker space to push this one through though!

Rey
03-30-2012, 03:33 PM
Not really surprising to me.

srrono
03-30-2012, 03:36 PM
Just kidding here but it almost seems like the FO is doing everything but cutting JJ just to prove Texan fans wrong.

SCOTTexans
03-30-2012, 03:38 PM
Just kidding here but it almost seems like the FO is doing everything but cutting JJ just to prove Texan fans wrong.

Hopefully the same off was offered to JJ and he wont take it

El Tejano
03-30-2012, 03:39 PM
I wonder if he was asked why Jacoby gets to keep his contract.

Dutchrudder
03-30-2012, 03:39 PM
Just kidding here but it almost seems like the FO is doing everything but cutting JJ just to prove Texan fans wrong.

I'm thinking Jacoby will be cut in August, just to screw him over as badly as possible. He won't get much money then, and will have to work his way up someone else's depth chart.

Shaft75
03-30-2012, 03:58 PM
His parents were actually expecting him to be released this year.

A guy that sits behind me said he talked them for awhile at a tailgate before our playoff game. Good news that he was willing to work with the FO and stay on for our 2013 run at the title.

XI CMURDER IX
03-30-2012, 04:03 PM
Hopefully Jacoby was offered the same ultimatum, and then refuses...

badboy
03-30-2012, 04:07 PM
Excellent move by Texans to wait until now as most FA spots filled. With number of Texan injuries occuring every year, I assume KW is gambling his role might increase as season progresses.

JimBaker488
03-30-2012, 04:33 PM
His parents were actually expecting him to be released this year.


That may yet happen.

Fili
03-30-2012, 04:43 PM
Just showing his loyalty to the team and how much he wants to stay.

SCOTTexans
03-30-2012, 04:47 PM
That may yet happen.

They wouldn't have gone through this trouble just to cut him later

badboy
03-30-2012, 04:47 PM
Just showing his loyalty to the team and how much he wants to stay.Maybe or maybe no options.

BattleRedRock
03-30-2012, 04:52 PM
I actually talk to a guy that knows a guy that knows another guy and he said that he saw jacoby jones not only playing receiver but also subbed in as water boy at the practices and that is why he hasnt been cut yet... but that same guy also said he saw him fumble a water bottle... if we woulda only knew that before the ravens game, things might have turned out differently.

Malloy
03-30-2012, 05:02 PM
So far I'm on board with everything our FO's done so far. Cap's a problem, they're dealing with it.

Players are taking paycuts to stay on with our team, and players released have found new homes in the NFL. That to me signals that we're a team with a bright future, and so much talent that we can't keep it all.

Bright future, and I'm drunk already! :)

srrono
03-30-2012, 05:24 PM
So far I'm on board with everything our FO's done so far. Cap's a problem, they're dealing with it.

Players are taking paycuts to stay on with our team, and players released have found new homes in the NFL. That to me signals that we're a team with a bright future, and so much talent that we can't keep it all.

Bright future, and I'm drunk already! :)

So lossing all this talent is ok because they are over flowing with talented players? The answer is no, this will have a effect. Ok say the Texans put in back ups draft well and sign a FA vet or 2 for cheap. The chances of all these postions that were changed having a seemless transition has to be slim.

disaacks3
03-30-2012, 05:30 PM
Just kidding here but it almost seems like the FO is doing everything but cutting JJ just to prove Texan fans wrong.

I wonder if he was asked why Jacoby gets to keep his contract.

Hopefully Jacoby was offered the same ultimatum, and then refuses...


Feel the love Jacoby.


God I hope we draft a WR in the 1st.

SCOTTexans
03-30-2012, 05:33 PM
So lossing all this talent is ok because they are over flowing with talented players? The answer is no, this will have a effect. Ok say the Texans put in back ups draft well and sign a FA vet or 2 for cheap. The chances of all these postions that were changed having a seemless transition has to be slim.

It will definately wont be seemless but the effects of the cap hit hasn't been devastating

Wolf6151
03-30-2012, 05:42 PM
Excellent move by the Texans. I think JJ is only being kept around as an insurance policy in case everyone we draft, practice squad players, and IR players suck in training camp this season. I fully expect the Texans to cut Jacoby late in TC.

Say Watt
03-30-2012, 05:46 PM
What a great guy. I'd definitely love to buy him a few beers after this. Very cool move. I don't buy it that he couldn't have gotten $2M or more some place else. I think he just would rather remain a Texan.

Bravo KW!

Goldensilence
03-30-2012, 05:47 PM
I am hoping this is a sign that the FO will be serious now about not handing out gimme contracts to players like in the past to keep them onboard. I like KW's game overall, but the past several seasons since we signed him to keep him from the Ravens he hasn't produced nearly enough to justify his salary really, though that's not all on him.

Why take a paycut? Slot receivers are fairly easy to find in the NFL. At least this way he knows he's going to stick on the roster and at worst likely take the #3 spot in a system he knows, with a coaching staff he knows, and he's a great downfield blocker at WR.

Win-win for both sides.

Now, if we could really just find where we are capwise that'd be peachy.

gtexan02
03-30-2012, 05:49 PM
Wow, 1.5 mil is a 40+% pay cut. Ouch

BattleRedRock
03-30-2012, 05:53 PM
So far I'm on board with everything our FO's done so far. Cap's a problem, they're dealing with it.

Players are taking paycuts to stay on with our team, and players released have found new homes in the NFL. That to me signals that we're a team with a bright future, and so much talent that we can't keep it all.

Bright future, and I'm drunk already! :)

Homie must be sippin the koolaid made by Bob Rick and Gary

thunderkyss
03-30-2012, 07:36 PM
I will say this is the one move the F.O. has made that does make sense to me. People want to bag on Jacoby for getting paid like a #3 WR & producing like a 4. Well, KDub was paid like a really good #3 & producing about the same as Jj over the last two years.

KDub is a slot receiver & we should never had put David Anderson on the field, unless Andre, KDub, Jj, Street FA1, & Street FA2 were all hurt. We should have seen more sets with Andre & JJ on the outside, with Kdub in the slot.

steelbtexan
03-30-2012, 07:39 PM
Glad he took the pay cut instead of being released... I like the way he plays but he wasn't worth the $.

I really like his outlook on the game when he talk on 945 the buzz during the season

Makes me think WR is high on Garys list of priorities in the draft. Wonder if Jacoby will be taking a paycut/cut soon?

False Start
03-30-2012, 08:35 PM
Good deal. I think it shows Walter really likes playing for this team, and sees a bright future for the organization. If there were more guys like him, things would be great. :clap:

SheTexan
03-30-2012, 08:49 PM
Good deal. I think it shows Walter really likes playing for this team, and sees a bright future for the organization. If there were more guys like him, things would be great. :clap:

DITTO!!

BUT, I still worry. RS is not the brightest blub in the NFL when it comes to being a GM. Not sure what everyone sees in him at all, but, that's JMO!! NO ONE is safe, that's for sure. RS dislikes you for some reason you might as well pack your bags, regardless of how good you are or what you have done for the franchise. Winston and Demeco found that out. I think he likes his good friend in Philly more than he cares about our team.

badboy
03-30-2012, 09:08 PM
DITTO!!

BUT, I still worry. RS is not the brightest blub in the NFL when it comes to being a GM. Not sure what everyone sees in him at all, but, that's JMO!! NO ONE is safe, that's for sure. RS dislikes you for some reason you might as well pack your bags, regardless of how good you are or what you have done for the franchise. Winston and Demeco found that out. I think he likes his good friend in Philly more than he cares about our team.I think you are seeing this too much from your personal feelings about players and not what is probably best for team. That is your right but may not be a very clear picture. Each of your posts seemingly focuses on liking a player and loyalty means keeping that person regardless of team circumstances such as costs.

Why do you say Smith disliked any player? You are making it personal with no proof offered. That seems more unfair than what you are accusing Smith of.
Demeco was very well rewarded with his last contract for what he had done which seems to contradict your point of view.

SW H-TOWN
03-30-2012, 10:50 PM
Agent to Kevin - You should take the pay cut, you are getting paid way too much $$$.

Kevin to Agent - I was thinking the exact same thing.

Not sure how it all went down between the FO, Walter, and his agent but there had to be some golden conversations.

GP
03-31-2012, 04:56 PM
Makes me think WR is high on Garys list of priorities in the draft. Wonder if Jacoby will be taking a paycut/cut soon?

For the sake of the team, they BETTER have approached Jacoby about a pay cut in the same spirit as they did with Walter.

I feel like Walter and Jones are kindred spirits in the sense that they have their moments but neither one of them has overtaken games or produced consistently great games.

This team needs some dynamism at the WR position. Andre is Andre, but he gets a year older and the body is breaking down...it just IS and there's no denying it...so we look at the WR position as it stands and it certainly is not striking fear into the hearts of defenses.

Arian Foster is going to look very mortal in 2012 if we don't find a way to loosen up secondaries and get the ball to WRs for bigger plays than we did in 2011. We've had GREAT production from our TEs, but Dreessen is gone now and what do we have in OD, seriously...is he OK or is he slipping on us? The receivers, as a group, need a huge upgrade.

thunderkyss
03-31-2012, 05:07 PM
I think you are seeing this too much from your personal feelings about players and not what is probably best for team. That is your right but may not be a very clear picture. Each of your posts seemingly focuses on liking a player and loyalty means keeping that person regardless of team circumstances such as costs.

Why do you say Smith disliked any player? You are making it personal with no proof offered. That seems more unfair than what you are accusing Smith of.
Demeco was very well rewarded with his last contract for what he had done which seems to contradict your point of view.

So why not attempt to restructure Demeco & Winston? If they aren't elite, if we've got players ahead of them, they'd still make excellent backups.

As far as we know, they made no such attempts. If something happens to Cushing, who would you want to be the next man up? Demeco or Sharpton? If Butler misses a few games, Winston or Austin?

The players/positions that were affected this offseason, yeah, they made sense.... but the way they went about it, doesn't.

Maybe there is a provision that prevented us from restructuring Demeco & Winston where it made sense for the team. I'd love to hear theories on that, but so far, all we are hearing is that these were the best moves for our future.

Well, I call BS. The best move for our future, would have been to restructure Walter back in February, work with Andre, Demeco, back in february, put your feelers out in february & see if there's any interest in a trade for Eric Winston.

What we are seeing now, is an organization that was caught off guard & trying to make the best out of a bad situation.

Rey
03-31-2012, 05:24 PM
So why not attempt to restructure Demeco & Winston? If they aren't elite, if we've got players ahead of them, they'd still make excellent backups.

As far as we know, they made no such attempts. If something happens to Cushing, who would you want to be the next man up? Demeco or Sharpton? If Butler misses a few games, Winston or Austin?

The players/positions that were affected this offseason, yeah, they made sense.... but the way they went about it, doesn't.

Maybe there is a provision that prevented us from restructuring Demeco & Winston where it made sense for the team. I'd love to hear theories on that, but so far, all we are hearing is that these were the best moves for our future.

Well, I call BS. The best move for our future, would have been to restructure Walter back in February, work with Andre, Demeco, back in february, put your feelers out in february & see if there's any interest in a trade for Eric Winston.

What we are seeing now, is an organization that was caught off guard & trying to make the best out of a bad situation.

I'm not sure how you can speak like that when we don't even know their plans.

For all we know they may want to trade up 15 spots in the draft and they want they extra salary space that will be needed to pay that player...(not likely, but my point stands)

They may actually want to pick up some guys in FA...They may have their eye on a guy they want to trade for...OR they could really be up against the cap and made these decisions while weighing the present agaisnt the future...

OR for all we know they may actually like Sharpton better than Demeco or maybe they feel like they can get a player that could provide just as much production for a much cheaper price. Maybe they felt the same way about Winston.


I think you make a lot of assumptions in your post about the teams intentions and how they really view the players we lost. I think you are assuming that the team felt the same way about these players and the fans seem to.

thunderkyss
03-31-2012, 05:33 PM
I think you make a lot of assumptions in your post about the teams intentions and how they really view the players we lost. I think you are assuming that the team felt the same way about these players and the fans seem to.

we're all making huge assumptions to either justify or antogonize the moves the team has made this off-season.

welsh texan
03-31-2012, 05:38 PM
So why not attempt to restructure Demeco & Winston? If they aren't elite, if we've got players ahead of them, they'd still make excellent backups.

As far as we know, they made no such attempts. If something happens to Cushing, who would you want to be the next man up? Demeco or Sharpton? If Butler misses a few games, Winston or Austin?

The players/positions that were affected this offseason, yeah, they made sense.... but the way they went about it, doesn't.

Maybe there is a provision that prevented us from restructuring Demeco & Winston where it made sense for the team. I'd love to hear theories on that, but so far, all we are hearing is that these were the best moves for our future.

Well, I call BS. The best move for our future, would have been to restructure Walter back in February, work with Andre, Demeco, back in february, put your feelers out in february & see if there's any interest in a trade for Eric Winston.

What we are seeing now, is an organization that was caught off guard & trying to make the best out of a bad situation.

Thing is, what we were paying both Demeco and Winston has since been proven to reflect their market value, because neither has taken a salary cut in moving on. So why would they have accepted a pay cut from us?

Demeco's market value is reflected in a system that we don't run, Winston is earning his cash on a team who don't have someone on Butler's level breathing down his neck at 1/3rd the cost.

Who was about to offer Kevin Walter more money than he's just agreed to? How does the rest of the league view Kevin Walter? He's someone who we've done well to get what we have out of, he's nothing special in reality. I'd say its smart of him to take a salary reduction because his skill set doesn't guarantee him getting through training camp on a team who's system he doesn't know inside out.

SheTexan, I thought you were a really good poster until this offseason, can you please tone down a little of the negativity because while you have the right to express your opinion, you're in danger of becoming the poster-child of the 'sky is falling' mentality about this offseason. JMO and I don't mean to cause offense.

Rey
03-31-2012, 05:51 PM
we're all making huge assumptions to either justify or antogonize the moves the team has made this off-season.


I dunno about that...

You can justify and antogonize what the front office has done without making assertions about their motivations.

That is the part that I don't really agree with.

We have no idea exactly why some of the moves were made when they were made all we know is that they were made and we can either agree or diasgree with the likely outcome.

SheTexan
03-31-2012, 07:28 PM
SheTexan, I thought you were a really good poster until this offseason, can you please tone down a little of the negativity because while you have the right to express your opinion, you're in danger of becoming the poster-child of the 'sky is falling' mentality about this offseason. JMO and I don't mean to cause offense.

Oh well, if that's what you want to think of me then that's your right. I'm not offended. This is a MB, it does not define who I am as a TEXAN fan!

I got caught up in the "post" season excitement of THINKING we just might be SB bound next year. I should know better, my bad!!! Before you blast me for that, about 90% of this board expressed the same "mentality!" NOW, I don't know what to think. If you want to accuse me of being "negative" because I feel my team has taken a huge hit due to poor management, then so be it. This is an opinion board, and even though I might not agree with some of the "opinions" I respect those who express theirs.

I've been an avid, diehard, football fan for over 50 years, so, I pretty much know how the NFL works. Not my first go round with disappointment. THANK God above message boards were not around when Bum and Earl went to New Orleans!! I would definitely be the poster-child of the 'sky is falling' mentality! Man, this off season is NOTHING compared to that!! Regardless, sometimes it's hard to remain so damn optimistic when you see your dreams become a potential nightmare. I have NO flippin idea what next year will bring, but, I'll be there pulling for my team. I'm a Texan fan, I should be use to disappointment!!:winky:

Just a side note! Those who know me well, know that I will NEVER quit believing in my team! I'm bummed right now, but, come August I'll be ready to go!!!:shetexan:

thunderkyss
03-31-2012, 07:48 PM
Thing is, what we were paying both Demeco and Winston has since been proven to reflect their market value, because neither has taken a salary cut in moving on. So why would they have accepted a pay cut from us?All I'm saying is they could restructure the contracts to make them work for the next two years, then deal with the rest when the salary cap goes up for the 2014 season.

Demeco's market value is reflected in a system that we don't run, Winston is earning his cash on a team who don't have someone on Butler's level breathing down his neck at 1/3rd the cost.

Who said anything about a pay-cut? If that is what they are worth, then pay them what they are worth.

Who was about to offer Kevin Walter more money than he's just agreed to? How does the rest of the league view Kevin Walter? He's someone who we've done well to get what we have out of, he's nothing special in reality. I'd say its smart of him to take a salary reduction because his skill set doesn't guarantee him getting through training camp on a team who's system he doesn't know inside out.


So you're saying McNair should be cheap?

badboy
03-31-2012, 08:09 PM
So why not attempt to restructure Demeco & Winston? If they aren't elite, if we've got players ahead of them, they'd still make excellent backups.

As far as we know, they made no such attempts. If something happens to Cushing, who would you want to be the next man up? Demeco or Sharpton? If Butler misses a few games, Winston or Austin?

The players/positions that were affected this offseason, yeah, they made sense.... but the way they went about it, doesn't.

Maybe there is a provision that prevented us from restructuring Demeco & Winston where it made sense for the team. I'd love to hear theories on that, but so far, all we are hearing is that these were the best moves for our future.

Well, I call BS. The best move for our future, would have been to restructure Walter back in February, work with Andre, Demeco, back in february, put your feelers out in february & see if there's any interest in a trade for Eric Winston.

What we are seeing now, is an organization that was caught off guard & trying to make the best out of a bad situation.TK, my thought is they added up Ryans health + 3-4 defense and said "gone". I would love to have gotten a better deal but more shocked by WInston. Again, i think they feel Butler is ready to go.

G27RR
03-31-2012, 08:20 PM
Who said anything about a pay-cut? If that is what they are worth, then pay them what they are worth.


They were worth it to the teams they went to; they weren't deemed worth it to the Texans, either due to performance/salary ratio vs their replacements, or due to straight up cap problems. My guess is mostly the former for the upcoming season and the latter being the reason for the year after that.

People wanting them to restructure DeMeco would have sacrificed far better performing players in the next several years just to keep him, and Winston didn't have enough years left on his contract to make restructuring viable. About all they could do with Winston would be to convert this year's money to something like a guaranteed roster bonus next year, but then we couldn't sign a QB, Brown, Barwin, etc. without major problems.

They did what needed to be done.

Good move on Walter's part to stay here, and good on the Texan's part to keep a vet contributor at a better value.

Wolf
03-31-2012, 08:54 PM
I am not sure how accurate this website is

(never been here before) but anyway here is Kevin's contact
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/

based on if this is true he will be back up to 3.5 million next two seasons

G27RR
03-31-2012, 09:50 PM
I am not sure how accurate this website is

(never been here before) but anyway here is Kevin's contact
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/

based on if this is true he will be back up to 3.5 million next two seasons

Walter, his agent, and maybe the Texans are hoping he'll have a big year that would justify the rest of his remaining contract. If not, he could face a reduction or cut next year, especially if we draft or otherwise have a more solid #2 by then. It wouldn't make sense for him to agree to reduce his entire contract if he can avoid it, and the Texans are in a position where they can wait and see, so they don't need to do it now either.

GP
03-31-2012, 09:56 PM
Now TK, you were recently telling me that I had a runaway imagination.

You've got quite an imagination too, I see. ;)

rolyat93
03-31-2012, 10:46 PM
Why would we expect his role to be reduced?

GP
03-31-2012, 10:57 PM
edit

Rey
04-01-2012, 01:31 AM
Why would we expect his role to be reduced?

What I find kind of strange is when Aj goes down some people look to jacoby to step up instead of the actual #2 receiver. I always here about Walters blocking, but on a lot of the big runs jacoby is the one that stands out with his blocking.

I know jacoby muffed that punt, but if we want jacoby cut I think a good case could be made that Walter should probably go before him or at least alongside him.

EllisUnit
04-01-2012, 03:27 AM
What I find kind of strange is when Aj goes down some people look to jacoby to step up instead of the actual #2 receiver. I always here about Walters blocking, but on a lot of the big runs jacoby is the one that stands out with his blocking.

I know jacoby muffed that punt, but if we want jacoby cut I think a good case could be made that Walter should probably go before him or at least alongside him.

Walters did catch that TD pass in Cincy, Jacoby would of dropped it.

rolyat93
04-01-2012, 12:44 PM
Walters did catch that TD pass in Cincy, Jacoby would of dropped it.

If he caught it, you can bet the celebration would've been a whole helluva lot longer.

SW H-TOWN
04-01-2012, 04:16 PM
What I find kind of strange is when Aj goes down some people look to jacoby to step up instead of the actual #2 receiver. I always here about Walters blocking, but on a lot of the big runs jacoby is the one that stands out with his blocking.

I know jacoby muffed that punt, but if we want jacoby cut I think a good case could be made that Walter should probably go before him or at least alongside him.

Our WR situation is just not good. Dre is awesome but was injured much of last year. Jones and Walter are average to be nice. I would say that WR and OT are our biggest needs. If Dre or one of our OT go down we would be in big trouble as of today.

GP
04-02-2012, 11:13 AM
If he caught it, you can bet the celebration would've been a whole helluva lot longer.

I think I figured out a way to keep JJ on the team, at a reduced price.

We ask him to play for $250,000...except he doesn't play. His job is to run onto the field and take over "TD celebration" duties when one of our less rhythmic Texans players scores a TD.

No pressure on JJ + More cap room for the Texans = A contract everybody likes.

ToxicButt
04-07-2012, 03:38 PM
Sorry if it's been posted, but I didn't see this anywhere. Clutchfans (rocket's fan forum) is where I saw it. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=217732. They cite to a fox sports report.

Edit - Here's the direct link on fox sports. http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/texans_wr_kevin_walter_restructures_his_contract/10438903. If you read the "source", I'm not sure it's credible.

Naiirb
04-07-2012, 03:41 PM
2nd page http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90873

TejasTom
04-14-2012, 08:57 AM
What I find kind of strange is when Aj goes down some people look to jacoby to step up instead of the actual #2 receiver. I always here about Walters blocking, but on a lot of the big runs jacoby is the one that stands out with his blocking...

I think it's because Jacoby moves to the X receiver when AJ is out. So he is (supposed to be) running AJ's routes. Walter's role remains unchanged.

Rey
04-14-2012, 01:27 PM
I think it's because Jacoby moves to the X receiver when AJ is out. So he is (supposed to be) running AJ's routes. Walter's role remains unchanged.

Routes aren't exclusive when you're talking about wr's. Maybe you like some guys running certain kinds of routes, but it's not like walter can't or doesn't run some of the same routes as Aj and vice versa.

Jacoby probably does become the wr running the deeper routes for the most part, but I think walter should still be counted on to step up at what he does. He doesn't have to run certain kind of routes to be a difference maker. Look at welker.

I don't think the type of routes should have as much to do with it as much as beating your man and the #2 receiver should be counted on to beat their man more often.

burro
04-14-2012, 04:15 PM
Good move on the FO's part. K-Dub is a keeper, just not at $3mil+.

Now if we can just get Jacoby to play for half-eaten Liver Cheese sandwiches (still more than he is worth)...

ObsiWan
04-15-2012, 01:09 AM
So with K.W. taking a salary cut, the question comes to my mind is this:

Should Owen Daniels be next to take a pay cut?

While he led the team in catches with 54 (Foster was only one catch behind him) in our most important games - the playoffs - he disappeared. A total of four catches for 55 yds in our two playoff games?? Is that pro-bowl quality performance?

His cap hit was 6.5 mil this past season. Tony Gonzalez or Jimmy Graham or Rob Gronkowski didn't make that kind of cash.

His salary (and cap hit) over the next three seasons (per Sportrac (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/owen-daniels/))

2011 - $6,500,000
2012 - $3,500,000
2013 - $4,000,000
2014 - $4,500,000

So, I ask again, is Daniels still worth that size paycheck?

I'm not so sure he still is.

I say draft Fleener and let him compete for O.D.'s job.

infantrycak
04-15-2012, 02:29 AM
Should Owen Daniels be next to take a pay cut?

While he led the team in catches with 54 (Foster was only one catch behind him) in our most important games - the playoffs - he disappeared.

I would say that was a function of the QB. TJ looked to AJ and then to AF and wasn't throwing much or accurately to begin with. He had a horrible game in Baltimore.

ObsiWan
04-15-2012, 07:47 AM
I knew that response was forthcoming. And I agree to a certain extent.

Still, he's supposed to be one of our better offensive weapons - probably third in line behind A.J and Foster. ...much more so than Walter or Jones have been used as key pieces of our offense.

And he disappeared in the playoffs.

If Walter's and Jones' performances (or lack thereof) warrant bringing guys in to challenge for their jobs then someone - and not some UDFA/6th-7th round pick either - should be brought in to challenge for Daniels' job also.

And then there's the loss of Dreessen who was more of a redzone threat last season than Daniels. ...unless you guys think Graham can fill that void...

redwhiteblue
04-15-2012, 09:31 AM
Owen Daniels is definitely worth the money. He is not grownkowski, but that is not how our offense works. Owen Daniels is a great blocker, see him destroy Farrior that springs Fosters cutback td run against the steelers. Daniels had a huge 3rd down catch on the game winning drive in Cincinnati. He came up huge in plenty of 3rd downs this year but didn't put up as big of numbers because once AJ went down, OD became our primary receiving target and defense game planned to shut him down, which led to Dreesen and Foster having better receiving years.

Rey
04-15-2012, 10:50 AM
I knew that response was forthcoming. And I agree to a certain extent.

Still, he's supposed to be one of our better offensive weapons - probably third in line behind A.J and Foster. ...much more so than Walter or Jones have been used as key pieces of our offense.

And he disappeared in the playoffs.

If Walter's and Jones' performances (or lack thereof) warrant bringing guys in to challenge for their jobs then someone - and not some UDFA/6th-7th round pick either - should be brought in to challenge for Daniels' job also.

And then there's the loss of Dreessen who was more of a redzone threat last season than Daniels. ...unless you guys think Graham can fill that void...

I don't know if od is worth the money, but he's a really good TE. He's not special but he's really good.

As long as he's the best we got he's worth the money he's making.

ObsiWan
04-15-2012, 07:32 PM
I don't know if od is worth the money, but he's a really good TE. He's not special but he's really good.

As long as he's the best we got he's worth the money he's making.

True, he's the best TE on the roster
...especially with Dreessen gone...

But in this tight salary cap climate, should he be making Tony Gonzalez money?

And to be clear, I'm certainly not saying that we should cut him. Just that his salary should be on the table for restructuring just like K.W.'s was. Trim a little of that money off so that there's more in the kitty for Connor Barwin, Duane Brown, Brian Cushing, and Schaub when the time comes.

ChampionTexan
04-15-2012, 07:45 PM
True, he's the best TE on the roster
...especially with Dreessen gone...

But in this tight salary cap climate, should he be making Tony Gonzalez money?

And to be clear, I'm certainly not saying that we should cut him. Just that his salary should be on the table for restructuring just like K.W.'s was. Trim a little of that money off so that there's more in the kitty for Connor Barwin, Duane Brown, Brian Cushing, and Schaub when the time comes.

How is he making Tony Gonzalez next season? From everything I can see, Gonzalez extended his contract thru the 2012 season for which he'll be receiving $6.9 Million with bonuses. For that same period, Daniels will be making $3.5 million, and if Spotrac is to be believed (which certainly isn't a given), not only is Owen not in a position to earn any bonuses, there is no pro-ration of previous money counting against the cap (meaning his cap hit is the same as his base salary).

ObsiWan
04-15-2012, 07:56 PM
How is he making Tony Gonzalez next season? From everything I can see, Gonzalez extended his contract thru the 2012 season for which he'll be receiving $6.9 Million with bonuses. For that same period, Daniels will be making $3.5 million, and if Spotrac is to be believed (which certainly isn't a given), not only is Owen not in a position to earn any bonuses, there is no pro-ration of previous money counting against the cap (meaning his cap hit is the same as his base salary).

You're correct. I just compared base salaries. Didn't account for TG's bonus bucks which nearly doubles his total take.

That detail conceded, do you think O.D. should be exempt from the salary scrub that's underway to clear up salary cap space?

(for the record, Jacoby should have his salary cut by at least two thirds... and still have to earn his spot back)

ChampionTexan
04-15-2012, 10:25 PM
You're correct. I just compared base salaries. Didn't account for TG's bonus bucks which nearly doubles his total take.

That detail conceded, do you think O.D. should be exempt from the salary scrub that's underway to clear up salary cap space?

(for the record, Jacoby should have his salary cut by at least two thirds... and still have to earn his spot back)

The problem is that with the possible exception of Arian, OD goes into the season as the #2 receiver, and OD gets downfield in a way that is difficult to do out of the backfield. He's still the closest thing we've got to the #2 receiver everybody's worried about.

With all the discussion of the DeMeco trade, or the Winston release (and heck, even the failure to bring back Mario, Brisiel, and Patrick Allen), the thing that held true for every one of those guys was a backup that has given the coaching staff some reason to believe in them (Butler and Caldwell), or a core group of players (Cushing, Barwin and Reed) who make the loss of a starter (or two?) a little easier to deal with.

Yeah, Daniels didn't have have his best year, but it wasn't that far from what we've seen before, and while it was obviously a function of Dre's injury, he was our leading receiver by a comfortable margin over everybody but Arian.

You could ask him to take a pay cut, but if he says no, I don't think you can let him go until you've got some assurance that you can replace his productivity, and right now, beyond the hope of a full healthy season for Dre (and that's certainly not assured), I don't think you have squat you can look at in order to replace him.

Unless he has a season like the one most of us thought he was on his way to having in 2009, I could definitely see a cost cutting move with OD after this coming season - just not likely before.

ObsiWan
04-15-2012, 10:47 PM
The problem is that with the possible exception of Arian, OD goes into the season as the #2 receiver, and OD gets downfield in a way that is difficult to do out of the backfield. He's still the closest thing we've got to the #2 receiver everybody's worried about.

With all the discussion of the DeMeco trade, or the Winston release (and heck, even the failure to bring back Mario, Brisiel, and Patrick Allen), the thing that held true for every one of those guys was a backup that has given the coaching staff some reason to believe in them (Butler and Caldwell), or a core group of players (Cushing, Barwin and Reed) who make the loss of a starter (or two?) a little easier to deal with.

Yeah, Daniels didn't have have his best year, but it wasn't that far from what we've seen before, and while it was obviously a function of Dre's injury, he was our leading receiver by a comfortable margin over everybody but Arian.

You could ask him to take a pay cut, but if he says no, I don't think you can let him go until you've got some assurance that you can replace his productivity, and right now, beyond the hope of a full healthy season for Dre (and that's certainly not assured), I don't think you have squat you can look at in order to replace him.

Unless he has a season like the one most of us thought he was on his way to having in 2009, I could definitely see a cost cutting move with OD after this coming season - just not likely before.

Okay. That makes sense. Let's see if he gets back to real pro bowl form.