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View Full Version : Kuharsky answers a concerned Texans fan: March 27 blog entry


GP
03-29-2012, 10:14 AM
Saturday’s mailbag led with a note from a frustrated Jags fan.

It was such a big hit, I thought we’d give a frustrated Texans fan a chance.

LX Aguirre from El Paso writes: Will the Houston Texans show some signs of intelligence any time soon???? After their first playoff appearance and a small taste of victory on wildcard weekend, I expected more from them. The only moves they've made so far were the retention of Myers and Foster. You may reason that the team's inactivity is due to salary cap issues, but that excuse becomes irrelevant when the team is willing to trade its Defensive Captain and lose money in the process. The betrayal to DeMeco was magnified because the team had just lost M. Williams, the most powerful defensive weapon; and the lopsided trade showed that management has a disregard for team continuity, fan loyalty, and esprit de corps. For the Texans, continuity involves getting rid of their good players like Williams and D. Ryans (Pollard, Leach, Robinson in previous years) while stubbornly holding on to unproductive failures like J. Jones, K. Jackson (ESPECIALLY KAREEM JACKSON!!!!), and Quinn. With Manning gone, the division is almost a guarantee, but the Texans will lose the crown this year because of indecisiveness and lack of aggression.

Paul Kuharsky: I am taking a deep breath … OK, I am ready.

Has it been a good offseason? Of course not. But good teams tend to be up against it financially and lose good players. They took an additional $750,000 loss on Ryans this year to save a ton of money over the next three years. That money will help them be able to sign guys like Duane Brown and Connor Barwin, and prevent you from ripping them next year for not holding the team together. [Sounds like what GP and others have been saying on this issue...]

DeMeco Ryans was a great leader, but no longer a very good player. He wasn’t even on the field for 60 percent of the team’s defensive plays. You think they’d have been sitting him so often if he was great for them? [Again, un-concerned fans said the same things as Kuharsky here]

You wanted them to keep Bernard Pollard, who couldn’t cover, and Vonta Leach, who got way too much money and plays one-third of the snaps, and Dunta Robinson, who was not close to worth what Atlanta gave him? I’d argue that you are being too emotional. [And again, this is what I and others have been saying from the beginning]

Glover Quin (with one N) is a good player, I don’t know why you would lump him in with Jacoby Jones and Kareem Jackson. Do they like those two guys too much? Sure. But it’s too early to give up on Jackson and the savings would be minimal at this point. And why cut Jones right now without a replacement in sight? Dumping him wasn’t going to save a guy they lost. [Can't fault the logic here, as well.]

The three areas you list as dented are all not nearly as relevant to team success as you may think.

Continuity is nice (especially on the offensive line). But teams regularly turn over 25 to 35 percent of their roster.

You don’t really want teams making decisions based on fan loyalty, do you? Fan loyalty can change week-to-week, and a lot of fans are loyal to Tim Tebow despite the fact he can’t throw with anything close to NFL-caliber accuracy. Should the Broncos have kept him because of fan loyalty? Should the Texans have overspent on Leach and Robinson just because you liked them? [Kuharsky is Captain Obvious hard at work here, saving people from self-imposed, needless misery]

Esprit de corps? Sure, guys are upset in the offseason when they see good players and friends leave. When it comes time to play, if they are pros, they go out and do their job and expect the guys beside them to do theirs. Collectively, they should get good results. Trust me, come the first huddle, an NFL players mentality doesn’t allow him to look around in there and sentimentally contemplate who isn’t there. [BINGO! Everybody hates seeing the last episode of a great show that's coming to an end on TV. But, life goes on. Players will embrace new teammates. It's the circle of life.]

The Texans have work to do. But it’s not a train wreck. They showed good depth last year. Now they need guys to step into roles that opened and for players like corner Brandon Harris and outside linebacker Bryan Braman to be that depth. They’ll restock with the draft and contend for the division and a deep run into the playoffs, I’d bet. [Harris and Braman I bolded for emphasis here. I like them as depth and even as starter(s) if needed in the midst of the season]

------------------

Link to the blog entry here (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth).

Vinny
03-29-2012, 10:19 AM
I think Kuharsky used post under the name of Butthertz Titan fan on the old board.

Blake
03-29-2012, 10:24 AM
Good points. Fans need to check their emotions at the door from time to time.

disaacks3
03-29-2012, 10:31 AM
Continuity is nice (especially on the offensive line).

The Texans have work to do.

They showed good depth last year.



The parts that stuck with me..

Ole Miss Texan
03-29-2012, 10:44 AM
It sucks for sure but (1) they extended Foster and (2) they extended Myers- probably the 2 most important things IMO. Right now we look down but this is a game of chess, it's a marathon, it's a boxing match. We still have a long way to go before the season starts. Yes, they Need to do well in the draft to add some quality players/starters and pick up a couple decent FAs. No superstars, just solid undervalued FAs. DO IT and we'll be fine.

We've got time, and I'm not panicking one bit.

gtexan02
03-29-2012, 10:47 AM
The only move I don't agree with is Winston. Maybe I'm not seeing how "overrated" he was, but I would have cut Jacoby first

ckhouston
03-29-2012, 10:49 AM
The only move I don't agree with is Winston. Maybe I'm not seeing how "overrated" he was, but I would have cut Jacoby first

Dont think that would have made the same financial impact, and good chance before the season starts JJ will be history as well.

Playoffs
03-29-2012, 10:54 AM
Two things:

1) Surprised no mention of losing the right side of the O-line,
2) All I've heard is Brandon Harris plays too slow/is really slow.

Great post, thx.

badboy
03-29-2012, 11:03 AM
We better come out strong or fan base will go ballistic.

Tailgate
03-29-2012, 11:07 AM
The parts that stuck with me..

Right. But now we can retain future core players and whomever else and continue to build thru the draft. I have confidence we will on both sides of the ball now w Phillips in the fold.

Tailgate
03-29-2012, 11:09 AM
Dont think that would have made the same financial impact, and good chance before the season starts JJ will be history as well.

Correct, no sense in cutting Jones at this point until his replacement is in the fold. We would save very little.

Calface4
03-29-2012, 11:19 AM
Just like Kuharsky stated... why cut Jacoby when a clear for-sure replacement isn't in sight?

The Cush
03-29-2012, 11:26 AM
Wow, that "fan" is an idiot. It's 2012 and he's still upset about losing Pollard and Robinson? Do they not realize that their replacements in Joseph and Manning are far superior?:kubepalm:

And Glover Quin is an unproductive failure? :kubepalm: I really like him at safety, but that's just me. I don't know if anyone else sees him as an "unproductive failure".

Ole Miss Texan
03-29-2012, 11:29 AM
Wow, that "fan" is an idiot. It's 2012 and he's still upset about losing Pollard and Robinson? Do they not realize that their replacements in Joseph and Manning are far superior?:kubepalm:

And Glover Quin is an unproductive failure? :kubepalm: I really like him at safety, but that's just me. I don't know if anyone else sees him as an "unproductive failure".

Joseph + Manning vs. Robinson + Pollard

That's like Drew Brees vs. Mark Sanchez

El Tejano
03-29-2012, 11:38 AM
The only move I don't agree with is Winston. Maybe I'm not seeing how "overrated" he was, but I would have cut Jacoby first

His point was that dumping Jacoby without a replacement in sight wouldn't have been good. Wintson, whether liked or not, did have a back up for him there with Butler. Plus the impact on the contract was higher than Jacoby.

gtexan02
03-29-2012, 11:40 AM
His point was that dumping Jacoby without a replacement in sight wouldn't have been good. Wintson, whether liked or not, did have a back up for him there with Butler. Plus the impact on the contract was higher than Jacoby.

Jacoby is a slot receiver. People that low on the depth chart are not difficult to replace.

I think Bryant Johnson : Jacoby Jones = Rashad Butler : Eric Winston

thunderkyss
03-29-2012, 11:43 AM
[Sounds like what GP and others have been saying on this issue...]

[Again, un-concerned fans said the same things as Kuharsky here]

[And again, this is what I and others have been saying from the beginning]

[Can't fault the logic here, as well.]

[Kuharsky is Captain Obvious hard at work here, saving people from self-imposed, needless misery]

[/COLOR]


So what you are saying, is that you & others like you think like the people we call mediots?

paycheck71
03-29-2012, 11:50 AM
My theory on this year's cap problems and consequently losing some arguably important players to free agency is that they banked on KJ in his rookie year after Dunta left to not be a total bust and the defense to be just average at least, definitely not historically bad. That should have been enough for another 9-7, maybe 10-6 season. Which means no Wade, who knows what kind of season last year, no JJo/Manning, and no or minimal cap problems this year.

Pick your poison.

GP
03-29-2012, 12:40 PM
So what you are saying, is that you & others like you think like the people we call mediots?

I'd like to think that a guy who has dedicated his journalistic career to covering the Texans plus the other three competing teams in the AFCS, as opposed to guys like Peter King or Skip Bayless who DON'T do that very thing, has a better finger on the pulse of the Texans.

You can marginalize Kuharsky all you want. People call him a Titans homer, and I don't doubt that his eyes light up IF he gets to write wonderful things about his favorite team, but the fact remains that he knows the AFC South teams the best. He's easily a better journo than McClain, and therefore represents probably better "major media" insight than anything else that attempts to cover the Texans. My caveat here is that Kuharsky is major media whereas Stradley and Burge are local talent--Since you're going the route of "mediots" I delineate between major media (Kuharsky and McClain) and think it proper to leave quality local talent (Stradley and Burge) out of the crosshairs of your labeling system....just so that nobody twists words in a reply to our conversation we're having.

Therefore, Thunderkyss, I don't think the glove fits when you try to lump in Kuharsky with other major media types like you're attempting to do. If the glove does not fit, you must acquit.

The point is that Kuharsky is not jumping off the same bridges that certain Texans fans are jumping off of. In fact, he didn't even climb up to the top of the bridge. He went and had some coffee and is reading about the bridge jumpers on his Nook tablet from the comfort and security of the coffee shop. Might even be eating a pastry, too. Because it's silly to wring one's hands over issues that (a) were not in our immediate control in the first place, i.e. Mario and Briesel getting better offers, and that (b) might find us having potential replacements on the roster already, or in FA, or in the draft, and possibly in the UDFA route too.

Plain and simple: The panic is premature.

P.S. The hack journalists in Houston, McClain and Solomon, continuously write either Captain Obvious articles or erratic and reactionary articles about the Texans. Richard Justice did, as well. It is unfortunate that a guy like Kuharsky offers more tempered and often more accurate information about the home team than the home town guys do. Stradley and Burge also put out regularly trustworthy articles, as well, and run circles around the Houston major mediots. If you think Kuharsky is a mediot, then I think you're over-reaching to get a reaction and nothing more.

Goldensilence
03-29-2012, 12:54 PM
I think the biggest thing that has frustrated fans this off-season are:

1.) No real clear picture on the salary cap situation. Fans on the board have sliced and diced it up but the numbers still seem to vary wildly depending on who you ask. I'm still not sure IF or how bad we are butted up against the salary cap.

2.) Waiting on Mario Williams. I think most reasonable people knew we really didn't have a chance on retaining him. Said it before though any other legit playoff team who saw they got just as good production without him would've let him walk long ago.

3.) Losing the right side of the OL. Mixed emotions on Winston, loved what they guy brought to the team from day one on and off the field. One of the few guys on the OL who has shown he can have a mean streak. Brisiel was a lunch pail kind of guy, physically maxed out but played well with what he has. He got overpaid by the Raider IMO, but who hasn't been the past ...well 10 years? I think most people feel confident in Butler being able to be better in pass protection, but what is the drop off in run blocking? I think the bigger concern is who we have behind Brisiel. We haven't exactly been stockpiling guys on the OL and Gary has a habit of sticking to guys like Studdard beyond reason.

4.) We visibly got better last off-season. For the first time the FO went out and HAD to get better. Their jobs were on the line. They nailed it big time with bringing in Wade, Joseph, and Manning. Very different story this year. Instead of getting better this team has slid a little losing some pieces (we can argue about how big or small they were). Some teams are out there getting better.

5.) For some fans the lingering concern if Gary and Rick can keep the team headed in an upward trajectory.


However, what I still keep in mind it's still early in the off-season. If nothing else we still managed to keep the core of players we need to move forward. There is still the draft (though the FO needs to nail it just as big as last year). We still have OTAs to see what we have and could as usual every year see some unexpected finds in June cuts.

To me I'm in wait and see mode to see if Rick and Gary can keep things headed in the right direction.

Dutchrudder
03-29-2012, 01:09 PM
The only thing that has pissed me off this offseason is the Winston move. How in the hell do you cut an above average RT with a 5.5 mill base salary that isn't guaranteed, instead of trading him? I like Eric and all, but this is business, and I can't imagine they would get nothing for him on the block. I think they did him a favor by cutting him. If they can trade Ryans and his bloated contract for a 4th, Winston should have fetched about the same. No team is going to pick a better RT in the 4th round or later.

chenjy9
03-29-2012, 01:09 PM
I personally am also in the "Wait and see" crowd. Obviously we are coming away from an unprecedented season for the Texans where we not only made the playoffs, but got to the 2nd round. Rather than noticeably improve during the offseason like last year, we have a fairly disappointing FA thus far where not only did we fail to sign people, we only retained 2 while other teams pillaged the crap out of us.

Like Foster however, I take this as a good thing. When a team becomes good in the NFL, it is because the players have become good. When your players are good, crappier teams will throw lots of money (often far more than deserved) to steal your players and make their team better. All this means is that we will have to build through the draft now for depth and I am fairly certain that replacing those we lost will not be such a challenge as some fans on suicide watch would believe.

I personally have great confidence in our team's ability to draft, despite misses like Jacoby Jones who I would still like to be kicked off the face of the planet regardless of his replacement's status. He simply does not deserve to play in the NFL.

GP
03-29-2012, 01:11 PM
I think the biggest thing that has frustrated fans this off-season are:

1.) No real clear picture on the salary cap situation. Fans on the board have sliced and diced it up but the numbers still seem to vary wildly depending on who you ask. I'm still not sure IF or how bad we are butted up against the salary cap.

2.) Waiting on Mario Williams. I think most reasonable people knew we really didn't have a chance on retaining him. Said it before though any other legit playoff team who saw they got just as good production without him would've let him walk long ago.

3.) Losing the right side of the OL. Mixed emotions on Winston, loved what they guy brought to the team from day one on and off the field. One of the few guys on the OL who has shown he can have a mean streak. Brisiel was a lunch pail kind of guy, physically maxed out but played well with what he has. He got overpaid by the Raider IMO, but who hasn't been the past ...well 10 years? I think most people feel confident in Butler being able to be better in pass protection, but what is the drop off in run blocking? I think the bigger concern is who we have behind Brisiel. We haven't exactly been stockpiling guys on the OL and Gary has a habit of sticking to guys like Studdard beyond reason.

4.) We visibly got better last off-season. For the first time the FO went out and HAD to get better. Their jobs were on the line. They nailed it big time with bringing in Wade, Joseph, and Manning. Very different story this year. Instead of getting better this team has slid a little losing some pieces (we can argue about how big or small they were). Some teams are out there getting better.

5.) For some fans the lingering concern if Gary and Rick can keep the team headed in an upward trajectory.


However, what I still keep in mind it's still early in the off-season. If nothing else we still managed to keep the core of players we need to move forward. There is still the draft (though the FO needs to nail it just as big as last year). We still have OTAs to see what we have and could as usual every year see some unexpected finds in June cuts.

To me I'm in wait and see mode to see if Rick and Gary can keep things headed in the right direction.

:clap:

Well stated.

Seņor Stan
03-29-2012, 01:14 PM
I personally am also in the "Wait and see" crowd. Obviously we are coming away from an unprecedented season for the Texans where we not only made the playoffs, but got to the 2nd round. Rather than noticeably improve during the offseason like last year, we have a fairly disappointing FA thus far where not only did we fail to sign people, we only retained 2 while other teams pillaged the crap out of us.

Like Foster however, I take this as a good thing. When a team becomes good in the NFL, it is because the players have become good. When your players are good, crappier teams will throw lots of money (often far more than deserved) to steal your players and make their team better. All this means is that we will have to build through the draft now for depth and I am fairly certain that replacing those we lost will not be such a challenge as some fans on suicide watch would believe.

I personally have great confidence in our team's ability to draft, despite misses like Jacoby Jones who I would still like to be kicked off the face of the planet regardless of his replacement's status. He simply does not deserve to play in the NFL.

The funny thing about this is that he is the only guy left from the 2007 draft class still on the roster.

GP
03-29-2012, 01:19 PM
The only thing that has pissed me off this offseason is the Winston move. How in the hell do you cut an above average RT with a 5.5 mill base salary that isn't guaranteed, instead of trading him? I like Eric and all, but this is business, and I can't imagine they would get nothing for him on the block. I think they did him a favor by cutting him. If they can trade Ryans and his bloated contract for a 4th, Winston should have fetched about the same. No team is going to pick a better RT in the 4th round or later.

I just think there's stuff we don't know about, Dutch.

I don't know if it's personal stuff that rubbed Texans brass the wrong way or what, but there HAS to be a reason they never even talked to him and cut him outright.

There is a reason for everything, and the Texans would not "out" themselves nor Winston so that fans like us can sleep better at night.

Or, there might not have been any takers on a trade. Just because there was a few teams willing to trade for Meco does not mean that there were teams willing to trade for Winston...or at least not for what we wanted for Winston.

I dunno. But I just think there's things we don't know about. And might not ever know about in the future either.

Goldensilence
03-29-2012, 01:22 PM
The only thing that has pissed me off this offseason is the Winston move. How in the hell do you cut an above average RT with a 5.5 mill base salary that isn't guaranteed, instead of trading him? I like Eric and all, but this is business, and I can't imagine they would get nothing for him on the block. I think they did him a favor by cutting him. If they can trade Ryans and his bloated contract for a 4th, Winston should have fetched about the same. No team is going to pick a better RT in the 4th round or later.

Would the cap savings have been the same trading Winston or an outright cut like we did?

I don't think the FO wanted to do either move, but they did cut Winston early enough for him to catch on somewhere and traded Demeco to a team that is a perennially in the playoff hunt.

The Cush
03-29-2012, 01:26 PM
Would the cap savings have been the same trading Winston or an outright cut like we did?


I remember reading somewhere that trading Winston would have activated some sort of accelerated bonus. I don't know if that's true or not, NFL contracts are something else.

Dutchrudder
03-29-2012, 01:28 PM
Would the cap savings have been the same trading Winston or an outright cut like we did?

I don't think the FO wanted to do either move, but they did cut Winston early enough for him to catch on somewhere and traded Demeco to a team that is a perennially in the playoff hunt.

From what I have heard, there was 2 million left in gtd money on his deal. If he was a June 1st cut, then they get to put 1 million in 2012 and another in 2013's caps. Should be negligible as far as cap impact. Getting picks is helpful though, and even a 4th or a 5th is better than nothing. However, that cut had to happen when it did to help get under the cap, but if that's the issue, then it's poor management.

Goldensilence
03-29-2012, 01:32 PM
I remember reading somewhere that trading Winston would have activated some sort of accelerated bonus. I don't know if that's true or not, NFL contracts are something else.

If that's the case then an outright cut makes more sense.

From what I have heard, there was 2 million left in gtd money on his deal. If he was a June 1st cut, then they get to put 1 million in 2012 and another in 2013's caps. Should be negligible as far as cap impact. Getting picks is helpful though, and even a 4th or a 5th is better than nothing. However, that cut had to happen when it did to help get under the cap, but if that's the issue, then it's poor management.

Agree on getting something in return. If it was to get under the cap then and there, total poor management.

What would make me feel better about the cut is getting Brown locked up long term.

GP
03-29-2012, 01:32 PM
So what if his agent, leading up to the free agency period, was telling Texans "no dice" on a trade? Did he have a clause in his contract that said he had to approve of any trade partner???

Asking honest questions, not being an antagonist on this topic.

There HAD to have been a reason, Dutch. They're not going to NOT get what they can get for a player. They even tried to trade a piss-poor David Carr for maybe 2 or 3 days until it became evident that no suitor would come forth.

They tried, or there was a road block of some sort. I am not buying the idea that this was a compulsive move out of nowhere.

paycheck71
03-29-2012, 01:34 PM
From what I have heard, there was 2 million left in gtd money on his deal. If he was a June 1st cut, then they get to put 1 million in 2012 and another in 2013's caps. Should be negligible as far as cap impact. Getting picks is helpful though, and even a 4th or a 5th is better than nothing. However, that cut had to happen when it did to help get under the cap, but if that's the issue, then it's poor management.

Didn't the official cap numbers get announced something like a day or two before free agency and the under the cap deadline? I'm guessing they weren't going to make the cut/trade until they knew they had to...

ChampionTexan
03-29-2012, 01:39 PM
The only thing that has pissed me off this offseason is the Winston move. How in the hell do you cut an above average RT with a 5.5 mill base salary that isn't guaranteed, instead of trading him? I like Eric and all, but this is business, and I can't imagine they would get nothing for him on the block. I think they did him a favor by cutting him. If they can trade Ryans and his bloated contract for a 4th, Winston should have fetched about the same. No team is going to pick a better RT in the 4th round or later.
You've said this over and over, but let me ask you a question.

The trading period in the NFL didn't start until after the new league year began (this is why the Redskins trade to obtain the #2 overall pick was known for several days before it became official). The Texans had to get at or under the salary cap level by the time the league year started (meaning had Winston been traded, they would have had to find other cuts in order to comply).

How would you have traded Winston, and still gotten under the cap if you were the Texans?

Mr teX
03-29-2012, 01:42 PM
Obviously, Kuharsky posts here b/c lots of what he was saying has been reiterated by 789709 posters.

rarazz00
03-30-2012, 02:21 PM
NOTE TO SELF....NEVER EVER PURCHASE A JERSEY WITH A PLAYERS NAME ON IT...USE YOUR OWN NAME..:fans:

BattleRedRock
03-30-2012, 04:38 PM
I have a pretty good feeling that Butler (if healthy, and i know if if's were fifths, we'd all be drunk) can have a break out yr next season as the starter. I mean the guy subbed for Brown at blindside and didnt do too bad. From what ive noticed is that Winston is a bit faster at pulling and getting to linebackers, however, i see Butler having a quicker first step and quicker hands to the chest why he pass blocks better. If he can just work on his quickness to the blocks this off season winston will be a thing of the past. now for caldwell, well i think we may have a problem here.. Jacoby jones has to go, and Kevin Walter, he arguably has the best hands on the team but he can not get separation to save his life. 4.4 speed can sometimes make up for that but he obviously does not have that. I dont think kendall wright is the answer to our #2 simply for the fact that in the nfl i feel he is a slot receiver. I'd actually prefer ruban randle or maybe even Hill which to me could possibly open up the vertical with his speed height and hands. but hey what do i know, im just a fan.

TexanBacker93
03-30-2012, 10:35 PM
I think the biggest thing that has frustrated fans this off-season are:

2.) Waiting on Mario Williams. I think most reasonable people knew we really didn't have a chance on retaining him. Said it before though any other legit playoff team who saw they got just as good production without him would've let him walk long ago.



The team never really saw that they got as good of production without him until this season after he got hurt. How could they let him walk long ago? They couldn't trade a player on IR. From Mario's tweets it sounds like the Texans never made him an offer so it would appear they were planning on letting him walk. How were they waiting?

Was it regarding the delays in signing our other FAs? I wasn't involved in any contract negotiations with anyone, but from what the reports/rumors were, we made offers to Brisiel and Myers and allowed them to find other offers if they could. We weren't waiting until Mario signed. At least that's my impression of what happened.

Maybe people thought we should have traded Mario at the beginning of the season. Yeah, we could have gotten something for him, but we were going to a new defense after coming off a horrendous season. They would have been vilified if they had gotten rid of him. At the time the team didn't know what they had in Barwin (going into his 3rd year and missed all of last season) or Reed (a rookie drafted in the 2nd round). They also didn't know if we'd have Cushing from 2009 or the one from 2010. Plus, Demeco was coming off a season ending injury himself.

What the fans here want is to have a GM that can accurately see the future. I realize they need to be able to do that to some extent, but to bash them for not getting rid of Mario is shortsighted.

Dutchrudder
03-30-2012, 10:47 PM
You've said this over and over, but let me ask you a question.

The trading period in the NFL didn't start until after the new league year began (this is why the Redskins trade to obtain the #2 overall pick was known for several days before it became official). The Texans had to get at or under the salary cap level by the time the league year started (meaning had Winston been traded, they would have had to find other cuts in order to comply).

How would you have traded Winston, and still gotten under the cap if you were the Texans?

Cut Jacoby (no trade value) and save 4 million. The Winston cut saved 5.5 in salary, but counted 1 mill against the cap in dead money (2 if he's not a June 1st cut). The savings difference is minimal, but Winston is a tradeable player. If we end up cutting JJ in camp or whenever, then we will have missed out getting value for Winston. If they trade Jacoby sometime this offseason, I'll be happy to let go of this issue, but I think Winston should have been worth at least a 4th on the market.

ChampionTexan
03-30-2012, 11:37 PM
Cut Jacoby (no trade value) and save 4 million. The Winston cut saved 5.5 in salary, but counted 1 mill against the cap in dead money (2 if he's not a June 1st cut). The savings difference is minimal, but Winston is a tradeable player. If we end up cutting JJ in camp or whenever, then we will have missed out getting value for Winston. If they trade Jacoby sometime this offseason, I'll be happy to let go of this issue, but I think Winston should have been worth at least a 4th on the market.

How are you getting a $4Million savings for Jacoby?

TheMatrix31
03-30-2012, 11:52 PM
I take exception to DeMeco not being a "very good player anymore". Obviously Kuharsky and anyone who felt this way didn't watch the last half of the season.

Sure, say he didn't fit the scheme or he was overpaid for what he does for us, but don't sit there and tell me he's not a "very good player anymore", because that's just nonsense.

Dutchrudder
03-31-2012, 01:20 AM
How are you getting a $4Million savings for Jacoby?

7/29/2011: Signed a three-year, $10.5 million contract. The deal contains $3 million guaranteed. 2012: $3 million, 2013: $4 million, 2014: Free Agent

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/

While there have been some different reports about his payouts, the total value of the contract is definitely 10.5 million over 3 years. 4 million this year makes sense given what we know, so saving 4 million in salary this year isn't unlikely.

ChampionTexan
03-31-2012, 01:55 AM
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/

While there have been some different reports about his payouts, the total value of the contract is definitely 10.5 million over 3 years. 4 million this year makes sense given what we know, so saving 4 million in salary this year isn't unlikely.

I disagree. While the numbers have been very difficult to nail down regarding any bonus, and the timing of the guaranteed money, the things we have seen with relative consistency are:

Guaranteed Money - $3 Million
2012 Base Salary - $3 Million
2013 Base Salary - $4 Million

Again, none of these have been shown to be absolutely correct, but I do think they say your $4 Million saving number is in fact unlikely, and in fact, it isn't unlikely that the 2012 cap savings would be less than $3 Million.

steelbtexan
03-31-2012, 07:06 AM
The team never really saw that they got as good of production without him until this season after he got hurt. How could they let him walk long ago? They couldn't trade a player on IR. From Mario's tweets it sounds like the Texans never made him an offer so it would appear they were planning on letting him walk. How were they waiting?

Was it regarding the delays in signing our other FAs? I wasn't involved in any contract negotiations with anyone, but from what the reports/rumors were, we made offers to Brisiel and Myers and allowed them to find other offers if they could. We weren't waiting until Mario signed. At least that's my impression of what happened.

Maybe people thought we should have traded Mario at the beginning of the season. Yeah, we could have gotten something for him, but we were going to a new defense after coming off a horrendous season. They would have been vilified if they had gotten rid of him. At the time the team didn't know what they had in Barwin (going into his 3rd year and missed all of last season) or Reed (a rookie drafted in the 2nd round). They also didn't know if we'd have Cushing from 2009 or the one from 2010. Plus, Demeco was coming off a season ending injury himself.

What the fans here want is to have a GM that can accurately see the future. I realize they need to be able to do that to some extent, but to bash them for not getting rid of Mario is shortsighted.

MW was all about the $$$$. (Why else would he choose to play in Buffalo?)

Unfortunately the Texans didn't have the $$$$ to re-sign MW/Foster/Myers. So MW had to go.

DocBar
03-31-2012, 08:26 AM
mw was all about the $$$$. (why else would he choose to play in buffalo?)

fortunately the texans didn't have the $$$$ to re-sign mw/foster/myers. So mw had to go.fify

Dutchrudder
03-31-2012, 04:35 PM
I disagree. While the numbers have been very difficult to nail down regarding any bonus, and the timing of the guaranteed money, the things we have seen with relative consistency are:

Guaranteed Money - $3 Million
2012 Base Salary - $3 Million
2013 Base Salary - $4 Million

Again, none of these have been shown to be absolutely correct, but I do think they say your $4 Million saving number is in fact unlikely, and in fact, it isn't unlikely that the 2012 cap savings would be less than $3 Million.

Ok, say it is 3 million, that's a 1.5 million difference than cutting Winston. That 3 would have put them under the cap, given that we know they took on 750k more in dead money for trading Demeco, and signed another punter for 800k this year. And now that La Canfora posted our cap numbers, we know they have 3.6 million in free space, which means the Winston cut probably wasn't even necessary to get under the cap. It's more likely that they made the cut to free up money to sign Myers, but missed out on an opportunity to get something in return for Winston.