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BattleRedRaider
05-10-2005, 01:08 PM
Maybe someone has already discussed this, or maybe not. I am having an argument with someone on the CBS Sportsline Rumor Mill (fun stuff) and a guy is saying that Tom Brady is the best QB OF ALL TIME. Is there reason to believe Brady is the best of all time? Or are there way better choices than Brady?

IMO, it's Joe Montana.

CaptainPatriot
05-10-2005, 02:36 PM
Maybe someone has already discussed this, or maybe not. I am having an argument with someone on the CBS Sportsline Rumor Mill (fun stuff) and a guy is saying that Tom Brady is the best QB OF ALL TIME. Is there reason to believe Brady is the best of all time? Or are there way better choices than Brady?

IMO, it's Joe Montana.

That`s a hard 1. Do you go by stats or do you go by wins. Regular Season Stats I would say no. If you are talking about Playoff Wins he is up there with Montana. Brady is still 9-0 in the playoffs and counting. Right now he is on a coarse to be best ever in Playoffs! Brady has 3 rings at 27 Aikman was 29 and Montana was 32! 1 guy you are forgetting is Bart Starr. I think he and Brady are tied with 9 straight wins in the Playoffs. Also Starr was drafted I think in the 15th Round! But what all these QB`s have in common is they don`t make mistakes and had good or even great Defense`s behind them.
Here is 1 Stat that is incredible Montana has no INT`s in 4 SB`S!!! Also Brady this yr had no INT`s through out the Playoffs! As for Manning until you win the big game he can`t sit at the same table of these QB`s. He can sit at the table with Dan Marino.Like Vince Lombardi said " if winning isn`t everything then why do we keep score" :hmmm:

Texan Dave
05-10-2005, 04:58 PM
I wouldn't put Brady on the top of the list yet, to me, Bret Favre takes that role. He's a mold yet to be broken, as long as he's on the feild the Packers will have a chance to win a game. Anyone who disagrees, sorry but you're just wrong.

FILO_girl
05-10-2005, 05:13 PM
I wouldn't put Brady on the top of the list yet, to me, Bret Favre takes that role. He's a mold yet to be broken, as long as he's on the feild the Packers will have a chance to win a game. Anyone who disagrees, sorry but you're just wrong.

I like this guy. Brett is the man!

TheOgre
05-10-2005, 05:27 PM
Terry Bradshaw. 5

Bradshaw won 4 SB's not 5. Pittsburgh won 4 Super Bowls in a span of 6 seasons (1974, 1975, 1978, 1979).

Montana won 4 SB's in a span of 9 seasons (between 1981 and 1989).

Brady has won 3 SB's in a span of 4 seasons.

Youngstown Colt
05-10-2005, 06:58 PM
Here is 1 Stat that is incredible Montana has no INT`s in 4 SB`S!!! Also Brady this yr had no INT`s through out the Playoffs! As for Manning until you win the big game he can`t sit at the same table of these QB`s. He can sit at the table with Dan Marino.Like Vince Lombardi said " if winning isn`t everything then why do we keep score" :hmmm:Haha, pats fans are so paranoid. Every time this conversation comes up, they bash manning, even if no one has brought him up.

If you want to argue rings, it's Otto Graham (played 10 years, played IN 10 title games, won 7) if you want to argue stats, it's dan marino. If you want to argue leadership, it's Johnny Unitas. And if you want to be a homer, it's Peyton Manning :rolleyes:

Huge
05-10-2005, 08:15 PM
1. John Elway
2. Joe Montana
3. Johnny Unitas
4. Dan Marino
5. Brett Favre

That's my top 5.

thegr8fan
05-10-2005, 08:58 PM
1. John Elway :um: wanna explain this one Huge? I mean I am with you on all the other one's. But this one? and as #1? idonno:

Huge
05-10-2005, 10:30 PM
:um: wanna explain this one Huge? I mean I am with you on all the other one's. But this one? and as #1? idonno:
I know. I had to convince myself for the longest time.

I almost always had him behind Montana and Marino. But no QB has been/was as good after 35 years old than Elway. The other greats had the benefit of being in a system that fit their talents for pretty much their entire careers (Montana in the West Coast, Marino in the pass happy Miami attack...as was Fouts, Aikman with the great running game, etc.).

Only when Shanahan came along and fit the offense around Elway (he knew Elway better than anybody) did Elway really explode (just look at his stats). Imagine if Dan Reeves had not been so stubborn and listened to Elway and Shanahan when Mike was the OC in Denver.

So based on his stats (impressive as any), wins (more than any), natural ability (nobody's arm equals Elway's except maybe Jeff George but he ain't 1/4 of the QB Elway was) and success (2 titles)...my nod goes to Elway.

As crazy as it sounds. ;)

keyfro
05-10-2005, 11:51 PM
my top five are a little different

1. johnny U
2. elway
3. montana
4. bradshaw
5. morino

close to the top

broadway joe
brett farve
roger staubach
troy aikman
tom brady

Texas_Thrill
05-11-2005, 04:22 AM
I maybe too old school (even though i'm only 25) but I'd take Slangin Sammy Baugh any day.

As far as modern era in which you guys speak....Its about the Rings let's not kid ourselves here. Unfortunately you can be a great qb stuck on a horrible team and get penalized for it. HEY LIFE AINT FAIR.

As for the pace Brady is setting you'd have to argue he is the best. 3 in 4 years? No reason to believe they can't win this year. They seem to find a way.

I'm not ready to call him #1 until he retires though.

Wolf
05-11-2005, 07:22 AM
I maybe too old school (even though i'm only 25) but I'd take Slangin Sammy Baugh any day.

As far as modern era in which you guys speak....Its about the Rings let's not kid ourselves here. Unfortunately you can be a great qb stuck on a horrible team and get penalized for it. HEY LIFE AINT FAIR.

As for the pace Brady is setting you'd have to argue he is the best. 3 in 4 years? No reason to believe they can't win this year. They seem to find a way.

I'm not ready to call him #1 until he retires though.

if the modern era is about rings.. so you'd take Trent Dilfer over Manning?

BattleRedRaider
05-11-2005, 12:59 PM
1. Joe Montana
2. Johnny Unitas
3. Steve Young
4. Troy Aikman
5. John Elway

Nowhere near the top:
1. Steve "The Lob" Grogan
2. Chris Chandler
3. Jeff George
4. Rodney Peete
5. Ryan "Make Like a Tree and" Leaf

Blake
05-11-2005, 03:26 PM
1. Joe Montana (I said Joe Montayna!)
2. John Elway
3. Warren Moon
4. Dan Marino
5. Brett Favre

El Tejano
05-11-2005, 03:45 PM
Well Joe Montana did his thang for a long time, not just for 4 years. So I give it up to him. After that you do gotta say Brady. C'mon 4 years 3 SuperBowls, one was a come from behind (so what about the fumble), does it with a team of nobodies except for the fact they are somebody now because they won a SuperBowl, also doesn't have quite the arm as any of the other above mentioned QBs.

And if you are looking for non winning or attending SuperBowl QBs, I know many of you will say Marino and that is fair, but IMHO it is Warren Moon. Even though Douglas from the Skins was the first Black QB to win the SB, Warren Moon erased the notion that QB was not a position for black people and he broke alot of records and played very well for a very long time.

Huge
05-11-2005, 03:58 PM
So if you've got to include Brady because of 3 rings in 4 years, where do you put Troy Aikman?

And a team of "nobodies" (Ty Law, Richard Seymore, Willie McGinest, Rodney Harrison, Lawyer Milloy, Corey Dillon, Adam Vinatieri, Tedy Bruschi <--- "nobodies"?) doesn't change the fact they're still a great team. Brady is not what makes them great. He's just another piece (albeit an important one) in their puzzle.

Texas_Thrill
05-11-2005, 04:02 PM
Oh yea I'd take Trent Dilfer over Manning. Quit being an i-d-i-o-t. Dilfer has one.

I'm speaking of RINGS. Plural.

I don't think there is a CLEAR definition then of how we are judging what defines the GREATEST qb.

any suggestions?

Texans1984
05-11-2005, 04:09 PM
1.john elway
2.joe montana
3.brett farve
4.dam marino
5.mick vick( i know he's not number 5 yet but will be i love this guy) :drool:

Huge
05-11-2005, 04:19 PM
Oh yea I'd take Trent Dilfer over Manning. Quit being an i-d-i-o-t. Dilfer has one.

I'm speaking of RINGS. Plural.

I don't think there is a CLEAR definition then of how we are judging what defines the GREATEST qb.

any suggestions?
Interesting that you would take Baugh (two rings) over Montana and Bradshaw (four rings each), or Aikman and Brady (three rings each).

Texas_Thrill
05-11-2005, 04:32 PM
Baugh didn't play in any super bowls. I don't think you can classify the old nfl championship the same way you do the sb championships. Different era and stage.

If that's the case why not throw in Fran Tarkenton or YA Tittle because clearly if this is about great qb's and not just sb wins you'd have to include these names as well.

You also have to take into account how DIFFERENT the game is. Bart Starr called his own plays as did most of the qb's of that era and as it is now only 1 calls his own plays.

There seems to be no criteria for the greatest qb. I think the question should be more if we were all starting our OWN teams who would we want to lead them and what kind of Offense would we be running.

Huge
05-11-2005, 04:37 PM
I would include Tarkenton and Tittle on any top 15 list. Regardless of the criteria.

But I think the suggestion of "who would you want to QB your team" would be a good way to do it.

Give me Elway (same guy I had #1 a few posts back) running Shanahan's system.

beerlover
05-11-2005, 05:03 PM
since its obvious there are no absolute right or wrong answears, my list is different. I would divide into two schools one for retired, hall of famers who you can objectivly look at thier numbers/championships and their total career this list would include-

John Elway
Joe Montana
Roger Stauback
Terry Bradshaw
Johnny Unitas

the second group would all still be active and as yet their careers incomplete but show great upside, tools or already have displayed greatness but just waiting for exclamation points-


Tom Brady
Payton Manning
Ben Rothelisberger
Michael Vick
Brett Farve

CaptainPatriot
05-11-2005, 06:57 PM
Haha, pats fans are so paranoid. Every time this conversation comes up, they bash manning, even if no one has brought him up.

If you want to argue rings, it's Otto Graham (played 10 years, played IN 10 title games, won 7) if you want to argue stats, it's dan marino. If you want to argue leadership, it's Johnny Unitas. And if you want to be a homer, it's Peyton Manning :rolleyes:


good headsup forgot about Otto :thumbup

TopTexanFan16
05-11-2005, 07:18 PM
1.john elway
2.joe montana
3.brett farve
4.dam marino
5.mick vick( i know he's not number 5 yet but will be i love this guy) :drool:

What!!! noo way vick? the guy can run alot big whoop yea he has a gunslinger but with who to throw to and IMO not a very accurate arm. there is no way i can ever see Vick as being in the top 5. yall can disagree with me if ya want but omg no.

Texas_Thrill
05-11-2005, 07:25 PM
ok ok. I'll be a bigger man and apologize for calling the PERSON IN QUESTION a "special person".

Wolf, I clearly dont think ANY of us would have put trent dilfer in this TALK.

I think we CLEARLY were talking about QB's who even if just using the SB criteria. SB QB's who were significant to their team. Dilfer got hurt in that SB and the Ravens STILL won.

Huge
05-12-2005, 07:31 AM
Brady was knocked out of the '02 AFC Championship game in the 2nd qtr and didn't return but the Patriots still made it to the Super Bowl that year.

Texan Dave
05-12-2005, 07:44 AM
What!!! noo way vick? the guy can run alot big whoop yea he has a gunslinger but with who to throw to and IMO not a very accurate arm. there is no way i can ever see Vick as being in the top 5. yall can disagree with me if ya want but omg no.


Agreed, Vick has shown me nothing to date except that he is a video game super hero. In fact, the biggest knock on Vick is that his accuaracy is barley adequit. I'm not saying that he won't be great, but make the guy prove it, like everyone else in this discussion has.

Texan Dave
05-12-2005, 09:58 AM
Payton Manning doesn't carry his Team on his shoulders, not saying that he can't. But I'd bet you that every QB in history just wishes they could have (or have had) the weapons that he does. Now Favre, or Mcnair, that's carying at team on your shoulders.

infantrycak
05-12-2005, 10:01 AM
4. Terry Bradshaw - One of the best winners all time.

Tom Brady is a good QB...but he plays with a team...he doesn't carry this team on his shoulders like the five above...IMO. :sbad:

I agree Bradshaw was great, but those two statements don't go well together IMO. Bradshaw's team wasn't carried by him. His team included hall of famers--Mel Blount, Joe Greene, Jack Hamm, Franco Harris, Jack Lambert, Chuck Noll (coach but still a hall of famer), John Stallworth, Lynn Swann and Mike Webster. I'd have to bet that is the only 10 hall of famer team to ever hit the field. JMO but Bradshaw wasn't carrying the other nine.

AlexVanderpool
05-12-2005, 11:19 AM
1. Warren Moon
2. Dan Pastorini
3. David Carr
4. Andre Ware
5. Bucky Richardson

:D

TheOgre
05-12-2005, 12:04 PM
Most overrated QB of all time? Joe Namith. The guy threw more picks than TD's and somehow made it into the HOF.

1. John Elway
2. Joe Montana
3. Dan Marino
4. Johnnie Unitas
5. Terry Bradshaw

I give Brady a grade of "Incomplete". Lets see how he does later in his career before giving him top 5 billing.

beerlover
05-12-2005, 12:36 PM
I give Brady a grade of "Incomplete". Lets see how he does later in his career before giving him top 5 billing.

i found it easier to put the active/incomplete career's in a seperate category & the retired/complete only in the All-Time rankings :)

nunusguy
05-12-2005, 12:50 PM
FWIW, I think Elway was not only the greatest QB of his time but also the greatest offensive football player of his time. And nobody was as valuable to his team as he was to the Broncos during the early and mid years of his career before Denver got a strong supporting cast for JE and they won their 2 SBs.
And I give Montana the award as the best impersonator of a great QB who
shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Elway but incredibly
is often ranked better than the Bronco great by some.

canadiantexan
05-12-2005, 01:51 PM
All Time Greats

1. Joe Montana-if you dont put Joe here your either biased or you dont know football
2. Dan Marino-Owns the record book, not his fault he has no super bowls there was 40 other guys on his team can you really expect Marino to make the tackles and kicks too.
3. John Elway-played at the highest level right up to his last year.
4. Brett Farve- a couple more farve like years and this guy will move up the list (really close to some major records)
5. Johnny u- what else can you say about this guy he's simply a beast probobly the toughest qb of all time.

Up And Comers

1. Payton Manning- all he needs is a SB and a little more longevity and he cracks the list above (may go down as best ever)
2. Tom Brady- give Manning the Patriots and he'd have 4 SB's in 4 years not 3.
3. David Carr- throw for more yards then everyone in the AFC last year except Manning, Brady, Green and plummer also led AFC in QB rushing yards.
4. Ben Roethlisberger- Great rookie year, but it was not all his doing played on one of the best defences and rushing offences in football. add that to the Steelers low risk offence and it would be hard not to succeed. Having said that if he puts up about the swame number of wins an dmore TD's and yards and he will skyrocket up this list.
5. Carson Palmer- has all the physical tools to be a great one only time will tell

Not even close

1. Mike vick- makes WR's worse not better.
2. Mike Vick- were talking QB's not RB's.
3. Ron Mexico- if only he could pass the ball like he can pass the herpes. :ouch:

MarleyFan
05-13-2005, 01:18 AM
1970-Heisman Trophy Winner
1971-NFL Rookie of the Year
Super Bowl XV MVP
Two Super Bowl Rings
Jim Plunkett is the best QB ever, and Kenny Stabler is a close 2nd!!!! :highfive:

Texas_Thrill
05-13-2005, 07:14 PM
I honestly think you have to think about the ERA and Offenses these QB's played in.

spadodog
06-06-2005, 11:54 PM
Gentleman, I don't know if there is such a thing as greatest of all-time. I would include this group as top's of all-time and give a quick steryotype for each:
Montana - Though let's face it people, we're talking perhaps the best receiving core of all-time.
Brady - No QB has done more in as much time! Can you think of any quarterback that's won 20 games in a row. You shoudn't be able to. Mark my words, this kid will have 6 SB rings before the end of his career.
Marino - Probably the best pure passer with a quick release to boot that the game will ever see. Never had the team to win the big one, yet always quick to complain. Racked up lots of impressive stats, but let's also think about how often he threw the ball.
Elway - Not only a cannon for an arm (perhaps a bit too strong sometimes), but an exceptional scrambler and broken play maker!
( Brett Farve has no business being mentioned in the same sentence as these guys. He had his make or break game with Elway and failed. Don't make the excuse Elway had the better team, the Broncos were -14 Pts going into it )

Huge
06-07-2005, 09:52 AM
I still find it confusing that so many people place such an importance on winning yet continue to leave Troy Aikman off their list.

Aikmans' 90 wins in the '90s were the most of any QB in any decade (even more than Joe Montana's 86 wins in the '80s).

His 3 Super Bowls ranks only behind Montana and Bradshaw.

At one point, he was 11-2 in the postseason.


And why lay one game at Favre's feet to determine his entire career? His "make or break" game came against the Broncos? Didn't the Packers win the Super Bowl the previous season? How was Elway's "make or break" game not against the Giants in '86 (Elway's first appearance in the Super Bowl) when they lost? When was Marino's "make or break" game?

If you compared one QB on your list (Marino) to one that ain't (Favre), would your rankings be justified?

Marino - 8358 career attempts, 420 career TDs (no Super Bowl titles)
Favre - 7005 career attempts, 376 career TDs (1 Super Bowl title)

You have Marino in your top 5 but admit it might be because of the number of times he threw the ball. If you averaged the two stats above, you'd see that Marino averaged 1 TD pass for every 20 attempts. Favre averaged 1 TD pass every 18.6 attempts.

Yet Favre doesn't deserve to be mentioned with these guys? Intriguing.

GoPats
06-07-2005, 10:00 AM
Being as objective as possible...

Brady isn't ready to take the "greatest ever" title away from anyone just yet. But in terms of playoff quarterbacks, no one has ever really done it any better. Montana maybe, but I think we should wait until Brady is done to compare the two. Here's what I think separates Brady from everyone else in the NFL right now:

1. Poise - If you've got a close game that's going to come down to three or four plays, there's no one you'd be better off with as your QB than Brady. This was obvious in the Super Bowl when McNabb was (allegedly) about to puke in the huddle. Brady's got icewater in his veins.

2. Clutch Performer - 3rd and 8? No problem, he'll pick up 11. 4th and 6? Done... he'll get you 9. It's not flashy, it's not glamorous, but he gets it done.

3. Game Management - Many of the Patriots' coaches have said that no QB executes a game plan better than Brady.

All that said... he's not the best ever. He'll never be in the top five statistical categories for QBs. His legacy will be more about the playoffs and winning titles, kind of like Montana. He's only 27, so he's primed to be regarded among the greatest of all time when he's all done.

dalemurphy
06-07-2005, 10:27 AM
:um: wanna explain this one Huge? I mean I am with you on all the other one's. But this one? and as #1? idonno:

John Elway is the best NFL football player of the last 30+ years. He took his team to 5 Superbowls. By the way, those teams he was on in the 80's and early 90s were not very talented at all. No one player made in the NFL's modern era made as enormous an impact on his team as John Elway did.

awtysst
06-07-2005, 11:21 AM
Maybe someone has already discussed this, or maybe not. I am having an argument with someone on the CBS Sportsline Rumor Mill (fun stuff) and a guy is saying that Tom Brady is the best QB OF ALL TIME. Is there reason to believe Brady is the best of all time? Or are there way better choices than Brady?

IMO, it's Joe Montana.


In my mind, the problem with Brady is that he has not won a superbowl. The first two Patriot victories were based off field goal kicking. The third also in many ways was won by defense and Vinaterri. When I think of Montana I think of him destroying other teams. In the one superbowl which he was in that was close, he led his team down the field and threw the td to win the game. Now, I think Brady is a great QB, but until he wins a superbowl, he cant be the greatest ever.

Bull Rush
06-07-2005, 03:29 PM
I wouldn't put Brady on the top of the list yet, to me, Bret Favre takes that role. He's a mold yet to be broken, as long as he's on the feild the Packers will have a chance to win a game. Anyone who disagrees, sorry but you're just wrong.

Please. Brett Favre is barely hall of fame material. He's this generations Terry Bradshaw.

Huge
06-07-2005, 03:34 PM
I really hope that's sarcasm.

GoPats
06-08-2005, 08:24 AM
Please. Brett Favre is barely hall of fame material. He's this generations Terry Bradshaw.

I can't agree with that. How many MVPs has Favre won? Two or three? Can't remember. That, plus an SB ring, pretty much gets him into the Hall, and deservedly so...

wiley2002
06-08-2005, 05:27 PM
No matter how much we compare some of the greatest QBs of all time, there will never be a definate answer to this question. There are all sorts of statistics that you would have to compare whether it be SBs, passer ratings, TD, INTS, etc., etc. You also have to consider their sqad(s). I mean if every QB had a squad like Terry Bradshaw did we'd know if a QB is worth it or not... or would we? Well that's enough philosophy from me. I'm about to get a migrane and I only scratched the surface of what I really wanted to say. Have fun with this thread.

BattleRedRaider
06-08-2005, 05:49 PM
Wow, I'm glad to see this thread is alive and well.

The point of this thread is to get everyone's opinion on who they think is the greatest QB of all-time, not to say what QB sucked, and I'm glad it's kept that way, most of the time. I've seen some compelling arguments around here, so keep it up, fellas.

MONTANA :dance:

TDforTatum26
06-08-2005, 09:08 PM
1) John Elway

2) Joe Montana

3) Dan Marino

4)Jonny U

5) Brett Farve

cuppacoffee
06-08-2005, 09:20 PM
1. Warren Moon
2. Dan Pastorini
3. David Carr
4. Andre Ware
5. Bucky Richardson

:D

Are you serious? Choosing Bucky over Commander Carlson? :confused:

Speedy
06-08-2005, 09:38 PM
John Elway

Speedy
06-08-2005, 09:42 PM
1. Warren Moon
2. Dan Pastorini
3. David Carr
4. Andre Ware
5. Bucky Richardson

:D
Hmmm.....if we're talking Houston QB's....

1. Jim Kelly
2. George Blanda
3. Warren Moon
4. Andre Ware
5. David Carr

spadodog
06-09-2005, 11:15 PM
You've got a point. However, I'll ask you this question - would you take Farve or anyone else for that matter over those four (Montana, Brady, Marino, Elway)?

GoPats
06-10-2005, 08:40 AM
You've got a point. However, I'll ask you this question - would you take Farve or anyone else for that matter over those four (Montana, Brady, Marino, Elway)?

No, but eventually all five will be in the Hall of Fame...

Texas_Thrill
06-10-2005, 09:10 PM
Actually if we looked at this from a QUANITATIVE standpoint meaning Wins, Stats anything we can put a quanity on and exclude the QUALITATIVE things like poise and so forth unless we could all come to a agreement on what those things would be worth.

We could devise a point system. I.E. 10 points for every super bowl won.
5 points for every super bowl played in.

5 points for being #1 in Passing yards
4 points for being #2 in passing yards

So forth and so on....THEN we could actually determine (figuratively) speaking of course who is the best of all time. Of course that would require someone determining what is worth what and what is more important. Super bowl wins or 4th quarter comebacks?

Theoridic
06-13-2005, 11:03 PM
Statistically the four best Quaterbacks ever are
Dan Marino (no ring)
Brett Farve
John Elway (I still don't like him)
Warren Moon (no ring)

Ring or no ring these four are the Elite QB's

Look it up and try and argue those facts