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Playoffs
03-22-2012, 11:43 AM
Some interesting reactions on RGIII vs. Luck as the No. 1 pick. Who would you take??? I'm leaning RGIII.


Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Bill Polian on RG3 vs. Luck: "They're neck & neck for me. I rank them even in virtually every category." Still expects #Colts to draft Luck.

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
After watching RG3's Pro Day, Gil Brandt says he's "not sure" whether Luck or Griffin should be drafted No. 1 overall:

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
More Merril Hoge: "Especially accuracy w/ ppl around him, how (RG3) ... put it on the perimeter outside the numbers. Much better than Luck."
21 Mar Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
More Merril Hoge on Griffin v Luck: "More (tape) I watched, I was like 'hold the phone. This kid RG3 beats (Luck) in almost every category'"
21 Mar Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
ESPN's Merril Hoge says #Colts should take Robert Griffin III over Andrew Luck in "half a heart beat." Basing it strictly on game tape.

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
ESPN's Mel Kiper on whether RG3 could bypass Andrew Luck: "Can't see it. I couldn't believe it. Just because Luck is so special coming out."

Rey
03-22-2012, 11:47 AM
I've been thinking I'd rather have RG3 over Luck for a while now...

I really hope the Colts don't see things my way...

Texaninlild
03-22-2012, 12:15 PM
I've been thinking I'd rather have RG3 over Luck for a while now...

I really hope the Colts don't see things my way...

Amen

Blake
03-22-2012, 12:45 PM
RG3 running around wont stay in this league at a high level, 5 years. Luck on the other hand I see slinging the rock for 10 years.

Stemp
03-22-2012, 12:50 PM
RG3 has been injured during 2 seasons. Luck hasn't had any injuries.
Whoever the Colts draft, they are going to have a last awhile during the rebuilding process, including rebuilding the OL.

I'd go with Luck.

GlassHalfFull
03-22-2012, 01:41 PM
I like RGIII over Luck, granted, I saw more of his games. I think he has "it" that intangible.

Besides, it would piss off the Skins fans who are counting on him.

WolverineFan
03-22-2012, 01:46 PM
Luck is better, pure and simple.

Look, Griffin is no slouch, but most of these "pundits/experts" are saying Griffin because everyone is saying Luck. If they say Luck then nobody cares or notices. But if they say Griffin and it turns out he is better they get to look like geniuses.

I also think ESPN is trying to build up hype for the upcoming draft because the top 3 picks are already locked in and they want people to doubt that and tune in.

bah007
03-22-2012, 03:25 PM
I think Griffin has "It". But so does Luck. I see Luck as the best QB prospect since Manning came out.

I like Luck better, and that isn't meant as a shot at Griffin, who I think will be very successful as well.

Playoffs
03-22-2012, 03:35 PM
Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Mayock on RG3's Pro Day: "He threw two 18-yard comebacks as good as any quarterback in the National Football League can throw 'em."


Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Mayock compares Andrew Luck's arm strength to Drew Brees & Matt Ryan. "I care about results. It gets there. It's a good but not great arm."

bah007
03-22-2012, 04:24 PM
This stuff about Luck's arm is getting just downright silly. Can he throw it as far as JaMarcus Russell? No, but he has more than enough arm strength to make all the NFL throws.

There is no such thing as a perfect prospect. It's a risk to pull the trigger on anybody in the draft, especially at #1. But it just seems that people are nitpicking about his arm just so they can have something to complain about.

Playoffs
03-22-2012, 04:25 PM
Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Mayock on Griffin vs. Luck: "I do believe RG3 has a slightly bigger arm. But that's not the true measure of a quarterback."

Rey
03-22-2012, 04:51 PM
This stuff about Luck's arm is getting just downright silly. Can he throw it as far as JaMarcus Russell? No, but he has more than enough arm strength to make all the NFL throws.

There is no such thing as a perfect prospect. It's a risk to pull the trigger on anybody in the draft, especially at #1. But it just seems that people are nitpicking about his arm just so they can have something to complain about.

Every prospect gets picked apart...

And with RG3 coming out in the same draft and expected to be taken 1 spot away from him, off course he's going to get looked at with a fine tooth comb.

Doppelganger
03-22-2012, 05:00 PM
Luck is a better prospect than Griffin.

1. Luck played a pro style offense whereas Griffin played in a spread. We have seen more pro style QBs succed in the NFL vs spread.

2. Consistency. Luck has had 2 VERY good years. In contrast, Griffin had a good year last year and a VERY good season this year. I am not going to say he came out of nowhere but he was not being talked about as a #1 pick at the end of last season. Luck was. With the hype surrounding it, Luck delivered.

3. Injuries. RGIII suffered a torn ACL in 2009. Luck has not suffered any injuries of this magnitude.

4. Leadership-> wins. Both guys are going to go to a crappy team, that's the nature of the draft. But look at how they willed their teams. Griffin was a starter for 3 years. In those years his teams were 4-8, 4-8, and 10-3. In contrast, Luck was 8-5, 12-1, and 11-2.

4. Size. Like many things, size does matter. Luck is 6'4 235 whereas Griffin is 6'2 223. In the NFL more size means you can absorb hits. If Griffin wants to continue to play his style he will need to become more elusive and/or pack on some weight. For example, Donovan McNabb is also 6'2, but he is in the 240lb range.

5. Style of game. Griffin needs to change his style of game. In college he had around 20 passes per game and 13 rushes per game. That is a really high number of rushes. Steve McNair, only rushed about 5 or 6 times per game. Michael Vick averages 8 rushes per game at his running peak, Vince Young was at 6, and Newton was around 8, and Tebow almost 9 last year. I am not sure any QB has been able to rush for 13+ times per game longterm in the NFL. Griffin is going to have to throw more often and rush less.

I am not saying that Griffin is not a good prospect, I think he is. I think he is certainly worthy of being a first rounder. However, given the option, I think Luck is certainly a better prospect and will be a better pro.

Honoring Earl 34
03-22-2012, 05:09 PM
Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Mayock on Griffin vs. Luck: "I do believe RG3 has a slightly bigger arm. But that's not the true measure of a quarterback."

Luck threw it 70 yards against the wind .

Vinny
03-22-2012, 06:28 PM
I like 'em both. If Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and John Elway can all come out of the same draft and play like Franchise QB's, so can these two.

Honoring Earl 34
03-22-2012, 06:38 PM
I like 'em both. If Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and John Elway can all come out of the same draft and play like Franchise QB's, so can these two.

These two are both 9.5 at the least .

Who were the other 3 .

Eason ? ?

Nawzer
03-22-2012, 06:42 PM
I haven't seen RGIII play, but I did watch an interview during the NFL Combine and he impressed the hell out of me in the span of a minute maybe. It's a hard call to really say who's going to be better. I think they'll both be great. Colts and Redskins will be lucky to have them.

Lucky
03-22-2012, 06:46 PM
4. Leadership-> wins. Both guys are going to go to a crappy team, that's the nature of the draft. But look at how they willed their teams. Griffin was a starter for 3 years. In those years his teams were 4-8, 4-8, and 10-3. In contrast, Luck was 8-5, 12-1, and 11-2.

You can't lay all of the record on the QB. Luck had a ton more talent around him.

Still, I would take Luck because he's the safer pick. He's been groomed to play QB since he could walk. Luck just looks like he's ready to step in and run an NFL offense, as Peyton was in '98.

Griffin looks mechanical to me (reads, certain throws). I think he will get it, and I love his personality and intangibles. Obviously, Griffin is one of the top 3 or 4 athletes to ever play the position. His potential is enormous, but not enough to overshawdow Luck's potential + readiness.

Lucky
03-22-2012, 06:50 PM
\
Who were the other 3 .

Eason ? ?

Todd Blackledge and Ken O'Brien. Blackledge was the bust of the litter. BTW, Andrew Luck's dad, Oliver, was taken by the Oilers in the 2nd round of that 1983 draft.

Honoring Earl 34
03-22-2012, 07:01 PM
Todd Blackledge and Ken O'Brien. Blackledge was the bust of the litter. BTW, Andrew Luck's dad, Oliver, was taken by the Oilers in the 2nd round of that 1983 draft.

So the following teams drafted quarterbacks

Colts to Denver
Bills
Chiefs
Patriots
Jets
Dolphins

Denver , Bills , Pats , and Dolphins went to SBs .

bah007
03-22-2012, 09:16 PM
I haven't seen RGIII play, but I did watch an interview during the NFL Combine and he impressed the hell out of me in the span of a minute maybe. It's a hard call to really say who's going to be better. I think they'll both be great. Colts and Redskins will be lucky to have them.

Griffin probably gives the most impressive interviews I've ever seen from a draft prospect. That kid definitely has the right kind of mind.

steelbtexan
03-22-2012, 10:25 PM
I like 'em both. If Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and John Elway can all come out of the same draft and play like Franchise QB's, so can these two.

^^^^
This

Both are going to be stars in different ways. IMHO

Great players

Goldensilence
03-23-2012, 01:19 AM
Andrew Luck hands down. He's played consistently at a high level under the spotlight.

I think RG3 dazzled people with his play down the stretch and I just think he translates to the next Micheal Vick. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily, he's just much more raw, but has a higher ceiling than Luck possibly.

Also think Luck playing is a pro-style offense gives him a big advantage as being the MUCH more polished QB.

Rey
03-23-2012, 01:23 AM
Luck likely would have been taken ahead of cam newton last year for many if the sane reasons people are giving here.

Gonna be interesting to watch those three qb's continued development.

Scooter
03-23-2012, 02:05 AM
drunk post

Playoffs
03-25-2012, 01:12 AM
NFL Films’ Greg Cosell, perhaps the most prolific game-tape watcher of the sport today, indicated in a recent comparative essay that ... Griffin is “a superior arm talent and natural passer” to Luck.

“Luck was not a special passer based on film study,” wrote Cosell. “He is not the same kind of arm talent as Matthew Stafford or Cam Newton. … Luck was an economical player who was at his best as a timing and rhythm, short to intermediate passer.”

Cosell did credit Luck for his masterful ability to call plays and make adjustments at the line of scrimmage, calling it an “essential attribute as [Luck] transitions to the NFL.”

Based strictly on game tape, however, RG3 was the more remarkable quarterback.

“What immediately jumped out was his arm strength,” Cosell wrote. “… Griffin, for a power thrower, was consistently accurate. The better term for accuracy is ball location. That’s what allows receivers to run after the catch. Griffin excelled in that area.”

Cosell went on to praise Griffin’s “composure in the pocket” as better than Luck’s, as well as RG3′s ability to throw from different arm angles while maintaining consistent accuracy. Cosell suggested that Griffin, despite playing in Baylor’s spread scheme, was less of a system quarterback than Luck, who was “managed and manipulated by his offense.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/24/cosell-deems-rg3-a-superior-arm-talent-and-natural-passer-to-luck/

76Texan
03-25-2012, 01:37 AM
"Oh, man, can Russell flick it," says NFL Network analyst Greg Cosell, who has broken down film of Russell and Quinn. "Like Elway, he has the ability to see and make downfield throws 50 yards when he's on the move.

"If you think JaMarcus Russell is one of those special quarterbacks — and in the NFL right now, there's Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Carson Palmer— you have to take him. I don't know how the Raiders have him evaluated. But I can tell you watching him on film, he wowed me."

Cosell also thinks Russell has all the tools to be great. "This kid is a special passer, and he's got a complete inventory of throws," he says. "He's got that football intuition. He throws from different platforms, doesn't always have to be perfectly set and can move within the boxing-ring space of the pocket to find the quiet area."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2007-04-25-sw-draft-preview_N.htm

Those were the things I didn't see in Jamarcus Russell.

Luck and RG III are pretty smart QBs, but I don't see the greatness of an admiral that makes them truly special. Neither had the total field vision. To simply put, when I watched Kevin Durant playing basketball for the Longhorns, you can tell that he knows exactly where the other 9 players were on the court. I can't say the same for either of these two.

Rey
03-25-2012, 01:51 AM
"Oh, man, can Russell flick it," says NFL Network analyst Greg Cosell, who has broken down film of Russell and Quinn. "Like Elway, he has the ability to see and make downfield throws 50 yards when he's on the move.

"If you think JaMarcus Russell is one of those special quarterbacks — and in the NFL right now, there's Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Carson Palmer— you have to take him. I don't know how the Raiders have him evaluated. But I can tell you watching him on film, he wowed me."

Cosell also thinks Russell has all the tools to be great. "This kid is a special passer, and he's got a complete inventory of throws," he says. "He's got that football intuition. He throws from different platforms, doesn't always have to be perfectly set and can move within the boxing-ring space of the pocket to find the quiet area."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2007-04-25-sw-draft-preview_N.htm

Russell failed to succeed because of his work ethic and drug habit.

I don't understand your point here.

Even in what you quoted he specifically mentions "physical ability".

He didn't say Russell had the mental make up and dedication to be a top qb.

Do you disagree that Russell had great physical tools and could make throws that a lot of others couldn't?

76Texan
03-25-2012, 02:34 AM
Russell failed to succeed because of his work ethic and drug habit.

I don't understand your point here.

Even in what you quoted he specifically mentions "physical ability".

He didn't say Russell had the mental make up and dedication to be a top qb.

Do you disagree that Russell had great physical tools and could make throws that a lot of others couldn't?

I edited my post to highlights the points where I disagreed with GC.
He did mention about the mental make up part (intuition and vision).

mussop
03-29-2012, 11:02 AM
I won't be surprised if the colts draft Griffen first overall. They announced yesterday that they want a contract signed before the draft. These guys are too close and that means the colts can low ball the contract offer and tell Luck this is our offer, if you don't accept it we will offer it to Griffen.

The Colts are in a no lose situation and with this much money on the line I expect them to take advantage of it. They would be stupidnot to.

WolverineFan
03-29-2012, 11:10 AM
I won't be surprised if the colts draft Griffen first overall. They announced yesterday that they want a contract signed before the draft. These guys are too close and that means the colts can low ball the contract offer and tell Luck this is our offer, if you don't accept it we will offer it to Griffen.

The Colts are in a no lose situation and with this much money on the line I expect them to take advantage of it. They would be stupidnot to.

Money shouldn't be an issue really. Newton got a 4 yr, $22 million deal last year as the #1 pick. New CBA takes away the ridiculous contracts rookies used to get. I'd expect Luck to get a similar deal to Newton.

Vinny
03-29-2012, 11:33 AM
Andrew Luck hands down. He's played consistently at a high level under the spotlight.

I think RG3 dazzled people with his play down the stretch and I just think he translates to the next Micheal Vick. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily, he's just much more raw, but has a higher ceiling than Luck possibly.

Also think Luck playing is a pro-style offense gives him a big advantage as being the MUCH more polished QB. I think the biggest difference is that Griffin is a better pure passer coming out of college than Vick. I'd be very excited to have that. I'd love to have either guy.

Russell failed to succeed because of his work ethic and drug habit.

I don't understand your point here.

Even in what you quoted he specifically mentions "physical ability".

He didn't say Russell had the mental make up and dedication to be a top qb.

Do you disagree that Russell had great physical tools and could make throws that a lot of others couldn't?Russell was just another Jeff George. George had a quick release and could just flick the ball dowfield with little to no effort. Both of those guys had prototype arms. Unfortunately, while they both had Million dollar arms, each of them had ten cent minds. :)

Blake
03-29-2012, 11:43 AM
I think a pocket passer QB is a hundred times safer a pick than the uber-athletic running QB.

I am unconvinced that RG3 or even Newton will ever play in a Super Bowl. Luck is projected to be the next Manning, Elway, Brady, and they make it and win Super Bowls a-lot.

Vinny
03-29-2012, 11:51 AM
I think a pocket passer QB is a hundred times safer a pick than the uber-athletic running QB.

I am unconvinced that RG3 or even Newton will ever play in a Super Bowl. Luck is projected to be the next Manning, Elway, Brady, and they make it and win Super Bowls a-lot. Steve Young was a hell of a running QB....it can be done. You just have to be like Steve...be a passer too. Cam is capable of that based on last year. RG3 will soon show if he can shortly. You just have to be able to throw the ball in the NFL...if that is your QB's weakness you may win some games *cough, cough, VY, cough, cough*...but you won't likely make it far in the playoffs.

Ole Miss Texan
03-29-2012, 11:58 AM
Boy this is a tough decision. I think both will be very good QBs and as a GM I would be absolutely thrilled to select either one. I don't think there's a wrong choice here. And for the record I think both QBs have "it"... I like them each more than any QB that have come out in a long time.

For everything you say about Luck, you can back it up with something for RG III. For everything you say about RG III you can back it up with something for Luck.

I like RG III a lot but if it's me... I take Andrew Luck. My Top 5 QBs are Tom Brady, a healthy Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, and Aaron Rodgers. Luck (and RG III) is a better overall athlete and runner than any of them, IMO... but that doesn't make a GREAT QB. It's a plus and he's got that going for him. I can't pinpoint any one thing why Luck over RG III but it's just a gut feeling of "who I would take". I like his size/bulk and his ability to take a hit in the NFL vs. RG III. Luck can avoid pressure, get a throw off or tuck it and run with the best of them. Luck has an arm to be a championship QB. You get to a certain point in "arm strength" and you'll be alright.

Leadership, Poise, Intellect/Football IQ, Ability to Anticipate Pressure, and Accuracy (Ball Location) are the most important qualities in a Signal Caller. I think they both have it but my gut leans towards Luck.

Playoffs
04-20-2012, 10:04 AM
Now they're starting to run down RGIII:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/oh-look-robert-griffin-iii-selfish-streak-now-170812742.html

"Selfish streak" ... :foottap:

Mr teX
04-20-2012, 10:38 AM
Watching both those guys on Jon Gruden's QB camp, which is a great resource to get a really good eval on these guys imo..i think they are 1a & 1b imo.

Luck's footwork & how he sets up his base for the throw is just impecable..he'll have to work a little bit on his accuracy but even if he never improved on it it's still NFL caliber right now.

ironically, RG3 has the impecable accuracy, but he's a little lazy on his footwork. & this is just my opinion.......but he's a little too cocky. That'll assuredly be toned down though once he throws his 1st few picks & gets hit a bit in the NFL.

both guys have strong & capable arms & both guys have a tremendous grasp on how to play the position so that's a wash imo.

Where Luck has the edge over RG3 and why he's 1a imo is that he's a fit & could have success in anyone's system right now; He's got the athleticism for a high bootleg system like ours, but he can also be the traditional dropback qb in any other system.

I think RG3's success depends on the system he gets into. For the redskins and shanny's system, he's absolutely perfect....damn near a godsend. But if he went to a rigid Mike Martz-like system where he would be asked to be a traditional dropback qb, he'd struggle.......at least initially he would imo.

Mr teX
04-20-2012, 11:28 AM
Now they're starting to run down RGIII:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/oh-look-robert-griffin-iii-selfish-streak-now-170812742.html

"Selfish streak" ... :foottap:

For me, he's just got too much "swag" for an incoming rookie who hasn't done anything in the NFL yet. For instance, check out this exchange from gruden's qb camp.

Gruden: what'd you got there on your left elbow there?

RG3: its a sleeve.......business on the right hand..party on the left..

Gruden: :woot2........:rolleyes:

Most vets who've paid their dues in the league don't like that & do seek to humble those kinds of guys. (Who can forget Mendenhall popping off pre-game about the ravens only to have Ray Ray break his collarbone & sit him down for the rest of the season?) & when it does happen, b/c it will, you just hope he's strong enough mentally to be able to handle it & bounce back. VY was just latest of guys coming into the league with fan fare only to have his confidence shattered on the pro level. I'd rather not see that happen with RG3.

drs23
04-20-2012, 12:06 PM
For me, he's just got too much "swag" for an incoming rookie who hasn't done anything in the NFL yet. For instance, check out this exchange from gruden's qb camp.

Gruden: what'd you got there on your left elbow there?

RG3: its a sleeve.......business on the right hand..party on the left..

Gruden: :woot2........:rolleyes:

Most vets who've paid their dues in the league don't like that & do seek to humble those kinds of guys. (Who can forget Mendenhall popping off pre-game about the ravens only to have Ray Ray break his collarbone & sit him down for the rest of the season?) & when it does happen, b/c it will, you just hope he's strong enough mentally to be able to handle it & bounce back. VY was just latest of guys coming into the league with fan fare only to have his confidence shattered on the pro level. I'd rather not see that happen with RG3.

I don't think you will.

G27RR
04-20-2012, 03:03 PM
I think his comment on the sleeve sounded worse on Gruden's show, maybe becase he was in the middle of working out when he was asked the question. They asked the same question at the end of one of his games last year and he used the same explanation but it sounded a lot more like it was all just in good fun. He has a jokester streak to him and likes to be a little quirky - just like the sock thing. I see him as confident but not cocky or arrogant. ESPN the Mag has a good article on his upbringing, and he's from a humble, strict family. I've followed him long enough to see he hasn't strayed from that, and he's not arrogant or cocky. He puts the team first. You're not hearing about the team right now because he's in-between teams, but when he's with one he's team first.

Playoffs
04-20-2012, 09:00 PM
I think it's chickensh!t to rummage around and find the inevitable anonymous hater so some writer can publish the gossip that RGIII has a bad personality trait .....

As they say on ESPN, C'mon, man!