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srrono
03-21-2012, 08:04 AM
http://motherjones.com/files/legacy/kevin-drum/Blog_Eating_Hat.jpg

Great pick lol

Blake
03-21-2012, 08:13 AM
My turn to weigh in on this.

I hate to see Ryans go. He was a great player and person for the Texans. A captain, a leader, and a role model for our young guns which is worth something to me. But you have to agree that taking a $7.4 million dollar bath on a linebacker who cant stay on the field because he is a liability and getting over some serious injuries is not in the best interest for our franchise.

Cushing, along with Watt are the leaders of this defense now, and I don't know about you but I feel good about that. We will use the draft to back-fill Sharpton's role, or maybe even use a high enough draft selection to battle Sharpton for the starter position.

We still have a defense that has Jonathan Joseph, Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, J.J. Watt, Brian Cushing, Danieal Manning, Antonio Smith and Glover Quinn.

And dont feel too bad for Ryans. He probably wanted to go somewhere where he could be utilized more as well, and he gets to keep his entire contract in tact.

Dutchrudder
03-21-2012, 08:16 AM
Adam Caplan was just on 790 discussing the trade and one thing he mentioned was Demeco's restructure from last year. He said that he emailed a guy to get a copy of his contract and that Ryans converted 5 million of his salary to signing bonus in 2011 just after the lockout to help the team with capspace. So that would leave 4 million in restructure money on his contract that hits the Texans' cap this year, plus the remainder of his original signing bonus which is 4.5 million according to sporttrac. That's at least an 8.5 million dollar cap hit this year for trading him.

With regard to the Eagles, Caplan said that the only portion of Ryans' contract that is guaranteed is 2 million this year, which makes it a low risk for them. It allows them to evaluate him this year and see how good he is. If he doesn't work out, the cap hit is relatively small.


So here's the Texans' cap savings as far as I can gauge it. If we held onto Ryans this year, He would have cost 6 million in salary + 2.5 million in signing bonus. Cutting/trading him in 2013 would have cost the team 6 million in remaining signing bonus. However, the team can rollover excess capspace to the next year, so by not paying Demeco that 6 million in base salary in 2012, they get that money in 2013. The same can be said of Eric Winston's 4.5 million salary this year. Together those two moves saved 10.5 million in 2013 cap space and could equal re-signing Duane Brown.

One other thing to consider is that the new TV contracts money won't kick in until 2014, so next year's cap could easily be ~121 million if there is no significant growth. Any extra room will help, but they might be bracing for another miniscule cap raise next year.

Mr teX
03-21-2012, 08:18 AM
Hate to see meco go, but it was the right move in the long run. He was making too much & was playing 1/2 the snaps & wasn't a great fit for the 3-4; just a better situation for all parties involved imo. We can replace his production with Sharpton / FA & i think Cush will be fine evolving into the leadership role.

The reality is this is where we're at ...we can't keep everybody & we have to start ID'ing the core of this team that will be here for years to come. That includes setting up for next year as we'll have 3 guys that will fit into this core next year. & i'm not counting Schaub in that group either. With the transition to the 3-4 Meco just wasn't going to be a significant piece to this core.

As far as those reacting to these player tweets...come on, what do you expect them to say?

False Start
03-21-2012, 08:21 AM
My previous pic had a typo, here is the updated one.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/demogb333.jpg

drunkcookie
03-21-2012, 08:23 AM
'Meco was playing 57% of the snaps this year according to McClain on 610 just awhile ago...and that's with Sharpton being on IR for a good time... I imagine it would have been even less had Sharpton played all year...

I remember getting the feeling 'Meco would be gone during this past season... It seemed a lot of football guys on radio/web etc... were of the opinion he wasn't the "right" fit in Wade's 3-4...after hearing it enough and thinking about it i stopped dismissing it and believed it was likely to happen...Around Christmas my girlfriend's bro had just bought a 59 jersey and was wearing it... He asked what i thought and i said "i think you'll need a different one next year, he'll probably be gone."

I guess shock wasn't a factor for me yestetday when i saw it tweeted... Not to say "i saw it coming" (part of me hoped it'd never come), i just felt it was a real big possibility...

Rey
03-21-2012, 08:27 AM
It seems to me that a lot of the optimism with the totality of these player losses so far is that "they weren't that good anyway". That is a common trend of thought when any player leaves the Texans, but I seem to recall that while they have that bull on their helmets they are perceived as better than average or better than barely adequate starting material. (For the record, I've never thought Mario was worth the money. Good riddance on that move)


I can recall quite a few conversations about Demeco's decline in play even prior to his injury...And I can recall people talking about Winston not being all that great...Same thing with Mario...

I think for the most part the same people who were saying things like this before these moves were made are the same folks that are not freaking out over this stuff. And the same people that thought Demeco was the bees knees are the same people who are upset about this move. I don't see a lot of flip flopping personally.

I think we all like Demeco and what he brought to the team and to the city. But I do not think that this move will drastically hurt us going forward. Some one or some other people will step up and be leaders and provide valuable play on the field.

Grams
03-21-2012, 08:29 AM
Where is all the cap money spent?
Lost Brisel-Winston-Vickers-Allen-Ryans-Mario-Leinart
Maybe Dreessen

All these salaries gone and still in cap trouble. Who is eating our cap?

Brisel, Dreessen, Allen and Mario - were not included in this years cap figures as they were/are UFA.

GP
03-21-2012, 08:30 AM
From Jerome Solomon

Link:
http://blog.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2012/03/texans-trade-demeco-ryans-players-arent-happy/

Players aren't happy. None of them went to Rick and offered to reduce their own salary to keep "such an important piece of the team"???

Lip service is all those tweets are. Being shocked and outraged doesn't mean ****. DO something if you're so offended by them cutting Ryans, but don't display a shallow anger.

Loyalty? I'd say the Texans are overly loyal, which is why there are crybabies on twitter who are so "shocked and outraged" by a business move.

These outraged players do understand this is a business, right? They need to remember they work for an employer, a gracious employer at that.

panamamyers
03-21-2012, 08:30 AM
Where have we really gotten that much worse than what we were last year?

Mario didn't play.
Sharpton was playing more than Demeco before he got hurt.
Butler played like a champ year before last. I think he is much better than Winston personally.
Brisiel is the only spot where we can presume that we will have a big dropoff. Caldwell and Smith will have to try and fill that hole.
Dreesen? Cmon.... Dreesen is a nice player. He's not that great. Graham could easily fill in and catch all those open balls he gets as a byproduct of the offense.

Rey
03-21-2012, 08:33 AM
Where have we really gotten that much worse than what we were last year?

Mario didn't play.
Sharpton was playing more than Demeco before he got hurt.
Butler played like a champ year before last. I think he is much better than Winston personally.
Brisiel is the only spot where we can presume that we will have a big dropoff. Caldwell and Smith will have to try and fill that hole.
Dreesen? Cmon.... Dreesen is a nice player. He's not that great. Graham could easily fill in and catch all those open balls he gets as a byproduct of the offense.

Dreesen is pretty good in the Red Zone and he is a good box out catcher...

That long pass that Schaub threw at the end of the Raiders game to get us down in the Red Zone was all Dreesen. He just went up and snagged it.

I like what I've seen ou tof Grahm, but Dreesen was actually pretty talented.

Honoring Earl 34
03-21-2012, 08:35 AM
I remember LZ talking about who would take Cushing's spot after he was suspended and Demeco's name came up . LZ said that someone on the inside said that won't happen because Demeco is to slow . That was before the injury .

Dutchrudder
03-21-2012, 08:39 AM
Players aren't happy. None of them went to Rick and offered to reduce their own salary to keep "such an important piece of the team"???

Lip service is all those tweets are. Being shocked and outraged doesn't mean ****. DO something if you're so offended by them cutting Ryans, but don't display a shallow anger.

Loyalty? I'd say the Texans are overly loyal, which is why there are crybabies on twitter who are so "shocked and outraged" by a business move.

These outraged players do understand this is a business, right? They need to remember they work for an employer, a gracious employer at that.

I saw something like this posted up thread but didn't comment on it, but I will now.

The bolded is simply not how it works. The GM goes to players to ask them to restructure or take paycuts, not the other way around. And in those discussions, do you really think Rick is going to say, "well Eric, I need you to drop 3 million in salary or else we trade of Demeco." That's just laughable. He may say they are pursuing a free agent, but he's not going to pit the guy against a teammate. That's just a ridiculous scenario.

On top of that, the named players listed couldn't even adjust their salaries if they wanted to. Quin, Cushing, Barwin, are on their rookie deals. They can't restructure due to league rules. Winston's gone, OD has no guaranteed money left on his deal, so the team won't ask him to restructure anyways. It's just a silly argument and it makes you look like an ******* for blaming the players on the team. It's not their job to manage the cap, it's the GM's. Winston claimed that Rick didn't even ask him to restructure or take a pay cut, and instead just cut him outright. I think that says it all with regard to this argument.

Runner
03-21-2012, 08:39 AM
I can recall quite a few conversations about Demeco's decline in play even prior to his injury...And I can recall people talking about Winston not being all that great...Same thing with Mario...

I think for the most part the same people who were saying things like this before these moves were made are the same folks that are not freaking out over this stuff. And the same people that thought Demeco was the bees knees are the same people who are upset about this move. I don't see a lot of flip flopping personally.

I think we all like Demeco and what he brought to the team and to the city. But I do not think that this move will drastically hurt us going forward. Some one or some other people will step up and be leaders and provide valuable play on the field.

Like I've said, any one of these moves can be defended by itself. It isn't difficult to show this one move makes sense.

Taken as a whole, the Texans are losing quite a few players that were part of last season's success. How will they back fill all of these and still maintain decent depth to protect against the inevitable injuries? What resources will be left to finally upgrade the receivers?

If next man up is all that is required, why worry so much about next years free agents? Just let them go too.

Rey
03-21-2012, 08:57 AM
If next man up is all that is required, why worry so much about next years free agents? Just let them go too.

I think it's about the value of the players and the possible replacements behind them...

If we lose Duane Brown, next man up? no thanks...

If we lose J.Jo (I know he's not an upcoming FA), next man up? Probably not.


Maybe folks dont like to hear it, but the fact is, losing Duane next year in order to keep Winston and Demeco this year would have been a bad short sighted move. I don't know if that's what it came down to, but like you said earlier...obviously they are doing some of this because of the cap.

Mr teX
03-21-2012, 09:00 AM
Like I've said, any one of these moves can be defended by itself. It isn't difficult to show this one move makes sense.

Taken as a whole, the Texans are losing quite a few players that were part of last season's success. How will they back fill all of these and still maintain decent depth to protect against the inevitable injuries? What resources will be left to finally upgrade the receivers?

If next man up is all that is required, why worry so much about next years free agents? Just let them go too.

Quite a few of these players were also part of this teams miserable failures too. Going all the way back to 2006 & into that dismal 2010 defensive fiasco. I think that's the point many here are making in sort of a way. As talented as some of us thought these guys were, it hadn't amounted to much until just this past year...so really, how much better did they make us...

We know how people felt about Mario & he didn't exactly play much last year, so it's kind of hard to argue that he had much to do with our success last year. We've also had guys step up & have a chance to improve on our LB core in the draft/FA with someone cheaper.

Meco was off the field for 1/2 of the defensive snaps & Sharpton/Dobbins didn't look all that bad stepping in for him when they did & as with Mario, we've got a chance to improve our LB core in the draft/FA.

Winston was already thought to be slipping a bit by quite a number of people on here. The only thing he really had going for him was the fact that he'd had continuity with the other guys on the o-line & he'd started 60 straight games. That still didn't justify paying him what he was making. Butler filled in nicely for Brown during his 4 game suspension..why couldn't he emerge as a solid RT at least as good as Winston had been?

Same for Brisiel. He'd been put on IR 2 of the last 3 years & missed a few games this year with a broken twig. there may be some drop off, but i suspect it won't be much b/c he's been in & out of the lineup so much the last couple of years &, well, Arian has seemingly not missed a beat.

With Allen, look it's not like we're losing a starter here. He apparently wasn't good enough to unseat Kareem Jackson & he had his share of issues in coverage as well. In addition to this, McCain has seemingly stepped up & we still don't know what we have in Harris & Carmicheal; gotta make room so those guys can get some snaps. Worst case scenario is we pick up someone in FA to push those guys; wasn't there a rumor that we were looking at shawntae spencer?

Whether you take these moves individually or team centered i don't think they are as major as some are saying.

ChampionTexan
03-21-2012, 09:12 AM
FWIW, the following post was made by CnD in Sept. of this past season in a thread regarding DeMeco's performance. If it's been mentioned in this thread already, I apologize for missing it. If not, then it may be worth giving some thought (Bolding added for emphasis).

The study that I reviewed basically followed some players from 3 seasons prior to the injury to 3 seasons after the injury. The findings were that compared to 3 seasons prior to the injury, after the injury these players averaged 1/2 the games played per season. Another noted pattern was that they showed their best season to be during the first season back, which to begin with was nothing to brag about. The following 2 seasons showed progressively dramatic decreases in performance ratings.

LINK (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1782486&postcount=54)

Runner
03-21-2012, 09:14 AM
Quite a few of these players were also part of this teams miserable failures too. Going all the way back to 2006 & into that dismal 2010 defensive fiasco. I think that's the point many here are making in sort of a way. As talented as some of us thought these guys were, it hadn't amounted to much until just this past year...so really, how much better did they make us...

We know how people felt about Mario & he didn't exactly play much last year, so it's kind of hard to argue that he had much to do with our success last year. We've also had guys step up & have a chance to improve on our LB core in the draft/FA with someone cheaper.

Meco was off the field for 1/2 of the defensive snaps & Sharpton/Dobbins didn't look all that bad stepping in for him when they did & as with Mario, we've got a chance to improve our LB core in the draft/FA.

Winston was already thought to be slipping a bit by quite a number of people on here. The only thing he really had going for him was the fact that he'd had continuity with the other guys on the o-line & he'd started 60 straight games. That still didn't justify paying him what he was making. Butler filled in nicely for Brown during his 4 game suspension..why couldn't he emerge as a solid RT at least as good as Winston had been?

Same for Brisiel. He'd been put on IR 2 of the last 3 years & missed a few games this year with a broken twig. there may be some drop off, but i suspect it won't be much b/c he's been in & out of the lineup so much the last couple of years &, well, Arian has seemingly not missed a beat.

With Allen, look it's not like we're losing a starter here. He apparently wasn't good enough to unseat Kareem Jackson & he had his share of issues in coverage as well. In addition to this, McCain has seemingly stepped up & we still don't know what we have in Harris & Carmicheal; gotta make room so those guys can get some snaps. Worst case scenario is we pick up someone in FA to push those guys; wasn't there a rumor that we were looking at shawntae spencer?

Whether you take these moves individually or team centered i don't think they are as major as some are saying.

Cost per snap last season: check

Performance slipping (even if due to injury): check

Part of the bad years: check


Is anyone ready to predict Andre Johnson as the next cut?

Lucky
03-21-2012, 09:15 AM
Quite a few of these players were also part of this teams miserable failures too.

Quite a few coaches and front office types, as well. Are they on the same short leash? No, they'll be getting extensions as soon as the dust settles.

Look, no one really knows how these losses will affect chemistry. It's a game and it's a business. The teams that can manage these conflicting perspectives are the ones that have success. I think this loss hurts from the top to the bottom of the organization. But, it remains to be seen whether it will keep the Texans from re-creating the chemistry of 2011.

gwallaia
03-21-2012, 09:16 AM
Inflated salaries in the NFL are the root of all these problems.

Mr teX
03-21-2012, 09:20 AM
Cost per snap last season: check

Performance slipping (even if due to injury): check

Part of the bad years: check


Is anyone ready to predict Andre Johnson as the next cut?

Dre's exempt from this simply b/c he's still top 5 & 1 of the very best in the NFL at his position when he's healthy. None of the other guys meet that criteria.....except mario but he voluntarily left for a monster contract.

The1ApplePie
03-21-2012, 09:21 AM
As some one said, its the Vilma effect.

Great 4-3 MLB, mediocre 3-4 ILB.

Strange that Curtis Lofton is still on the market, he had a lot of potential early in his career.

Not sure why people are mentioning Burfict. He will be a day three pick and could be value, but the dude has discipline and sanity concerns.

Ole Miss Texan
03-21-2012, 09:24 AM
Adam Caplan was just on 790 discussing the trade and one thing he mentioned was Demeco's restructure from last year. He said that he emailed a guy to get a copy of his contract and that Ryans converted 5 million of his salary to signing bonus in 2011 just after the lockout to help the team with capspace. So that would leave 4 million in restructure money on his contract that hits the Texans' cap this year, plus the remainder of his original signing bonus which is 4.5 million according to sporttrac. That's at least an 8.5 million dollar cap hit this year for trading him.

...

One other thing to consider is that the new TV contracts money won't kick in until 2014, so next year's cap could easily be ~121 million if there is no significant growth. Any extra room will help, but they might be bracing for another miniscule cap raise next year.
Quick response: WOW - very interesting. THIS is something people HAVE to understand when we restructure contracts. Everybody talks about "restructure, restructure, restructure"... but they fail to realized we're going to be paying for that in the future. I understand why we did last year, b/c we NEEDED Joseph and Manning. But if we keep restructuring deals we'll be in cap hell in the future moreso than we are now.


So his "revised" cap hits (PRE-TRADE) for the following years would likely be:

2012: $8.4M ($5.9M salary + $1.5M orig. bonus + $1M restructured bonus)
2013: $9.1M ($6.6M salary + $1.5M orig. bonus + $1M restructured bonus)
2014: $9.3M ($6.8M salary + $1.5M orig. bonus + $1M restructured bonus)
2015: $7.8M ($6.8M salary + $0 orig. bonus? + $1M restructured bonus)

POST-TRADE:
2012: $8.5M ($0 salary + $4.5M orig. bonus + $4M restructured bonus)
2013: $0
2014: $0
2015: $0

The net effect will be an extra $100K this year against the cap + adding a LB as depth. But we save $26.2M against the cap over the next 3 years. If we had waited and let him play this season then just flat out release him next year, we'd have a $6M cap hit for 2013.... instead we'll have $0.

On to my thoughts: It hurts. It hurts. It hurts. Demeco is THE quintesential player you want on your team. He's a leader, high character, class act, model citizen, great teammate, hard work and great player. BUT I completely understand why we had to do this. For all the people bitching about Smith and Olsen effing up our cap situation.... this type of move (while a hard one) has to be made to keep us out of cap hell in the future. It sucks, but it's a business and this was in the best interest of the team. I truly believe that. Demeco was simply being paid more than we could afford to pay him. He's been often injured and plays limited snaps. Nobody should discount what we're going to be losing in the locker room (he was a fan and TEAM favorite)... but it's a move that had to be made.

EDIT - About the trade value. I sure wish we could have got more, but I'm fine with the value we got. The total value is probably about a late 3rd round pick. I think the Eagles got a GREAT deal but this benefits us too. So I think its a win-win for both teams. I think we can have another LB in there for better value (although much leadership is lost) and we get a draft pick that could be put to good use. Next offseason we likely would have had to cut him AND take the cap ramifications that year while trying to re-sign Schaub, Brown, Barwin, etc. I think this was a business savvy move and the Texans will be better in the long run for it.

Honoring Earl 34
03-21-2012, 09:24 AM
Inflated salaries in the NFL are the root of all these problems.

I think it's where you spend your money that counts . I bet Ryans and Winston were both in the top 10 as far as LBs and OTs are paid . That's all linebackers and tackles .

Mr teX
03-21-2012, 09:28 AM
Quite a few coaches and front office types, as well. Are they on the same short leash? No, they'll be getting extensions as soon as the dust settles.

Look, no one really knows how these losses will affect chemistry. It's a game and it's a business. The teams that can manage these conflicting perspectives are the ones that have success. I think this loss hurts from the top to the bottom of the organization. But, it remains to be seen whether it will keep the Texans from re-creating the chemistry of 2011.


Neither the coaches/FO or the players have been on short leashes..each had plenty of time to make themselves "made men". The only guys who've seemed to be able to do that is Arian & Meyers. Plus, you could argue that the coaches & FO were put on notice to be fired/released going into 2011....a full year before these players we've lost this year were. & considering the circumstances of last year (lockout) it was tougher for them than it was for these players.

Runner
03-21-2012, 09:28 AM
Dre's exempt from this simply b/c he's still top 5 & 1 of the very best in the NFL at his position when he's healthy. None of the other guys meet that criteria.....except mario but he voluntarily left for a monster contract.

I certainly wouldn't entertain cutting him now because he does have that capability, but that may just be "loyalty" talking.

However, it he misses much of the next season due to injury, the lack of depth behind him shouldn't be excused because it was "unforeseeable" that his largely experimental surgery didn't work out.

Lucky
03-21-2012, 09:31 AM
I remember LZ talking about who would take Cushing's spot after he was suspended and Demeco's name came up . LZ said that someone on the inside said that won't happen because Demeco is to slow . That was before the injury .

That doesn't make sense. Cushing was playing the Sam and DeMeco the Mike. Why would they even consider moving Ryans over? When Cushing tried to replace Ryans after the achilles injury, it was a disaster. Clearly, Brian is more comfortable in Wade's 3-4 than in the middle of Frank Bush's 4-3.

Was Ryans in danger of losing his starting spot? That's what we really don't know. You couldn't have a player of Ryans' stature on the bench, much less carry that kind of salary. If Wade was considering replacing DeMeco, he had to go. That's what we'll really never know for sure.

Bulls on Parade
03-21-2012, 09:34 AM
Next man up fellas.

Winston -> Butler, Newton
Brisiel -> Caldwell, Smith
Dressen -> Casey, Graham
Demeco -> Sharpton?
Williams -> Barwin, Reed
Allen -> Harris, McCain, Carmichael

Don't look too far for replacements y'all. Still got the draft too.
We're in some serious trouble if Butler and Caldwell become our starting right side of the offensive line. Neither has any business starting at the NFL level. We better look for an upgrade fast (free agency or the draft). I'd rather start two rookies drafted in the 3rd or 4th round over Butler and Caldwell. I have no confidence in either of them.

Mr teX
03-21-2012, 09:36 AM
I certainly wouldn't entertain cutting him now because he does have that capability, but that may just be "loyalty" talking.

However, it he misses much of the next season due to injury, the lack of depth behind him shouldn't be excused because it was "unforeseeable" that his largely experimental surgery didn't work out.

This is primarily why i see us going WR in the 1st now that we've got Meyers locked up. I think the FO sees the writing on the wall with him & figure they have about 3 possibly 4 more seasons left before he really begins to decline.

& if this 1st round talent works out for us this year I think this will give them the leeway to cut Jones going into 2013 (or possibly cut him in TC next year) & look at restructuring/cutting Walters as well.

right now, cutting JJ just doesn't make a whole lot of sense b/c we'd have to replace 2 positions..PR & 3rd WR. I don't think they want manning back there doing all that & starting FS on defense.

Lucky
03-21-2012, 09:42 AM
This is primarily why i see us going WR in the 1st now that we've got Meyers locked up. I think the FO sees the writing on the wall with him & figure they have about 3 possibly 4 more seasons left before he really begins to decline.
They should draft WR if there is a player they value as high or higher than the other positions of need. But forcing positions into draft slots is what got this team Kareem Jackson. Yes, they need a young WR to eventually take over for Andre. Doesn't mean that player will be there when they make their pick in the 1st round.

Vinny
03-21-2012, 09:43 AM
They should draft WR if there is a player they value as high or higher than the other positions of need. But forcing positions into draft slots is what got this team Kareem Jackson. Yes, they need a young WR to eventually take over for Andre. Doesn't mean that player will be there when they make their pick in the 1st round.Jackson, Okoye, and TJ. The top end of the wr group this year is not good.

Ole Miss Texan
03-21-2012, 09:43 AM
We're in some serious trouble if Butler and Caldwell become our starting right side of the offensive line. Neither has any business starting at the NFL level. We better look for an upgrade fast (free agency or the draft). I'd rather start two rookies drafted in the 3rd or 4th round over Butler and Caldwell. I have no confidence in either of them.

While I don't share your exact pessimism... I do have some hesitation over the right side of the line. Clearly we'll know more after the draft and closer to the season what our team/o-line will look like. I too would like to invest an early pick on the OL.

I understand your thoughts on Caldwell/Butler but just think of Brisiel. We picked him up as an UDFA his rookie year and by the end of the following season he had to start due to injury. None of us were confident then. While Caldwell has shown some struggles... he's at least had time to develop and has had game-time experience. We'll see if he's actually developed into a quality starter or not. Having two "new" starters next to each other at the same time definitely adds to the nervousness for me.

Rey
03-21-2012, 09:47 AM
They should draft WR if there is a player they value as high or higher than the other positions of need. But forcing positions into draft slots is what got this team Kareem Jackson. Yes, they need a young WR to eventually take over for Andre. Doesn't mean that player will be there when they make their pick in the 1st round.

I agree with that...But I keep reading that the team needs someone to "take over for Andre"...

I don't know if I agree with that. Yeah, I'd like another true #1 receiver in the pipeline, but I'd be happy with just 2 or 3 more quality guys...good players...Not necessarily great like Andre...

I don't know if we need someone to really "take over for Andre" as much as we just need more quality players there.

But I agree with your main point but I would personally add that I don't care about getting a true#1 as much as I want more talent at the position.

pirbroke
03-21-2012, 09:52 AM
We're in some serious trouble if Butler and Caldwell become our starting right side of the offensive line. Neither has any business starting at the NFL level. We better look for an upgrade fast (free agency or the draft). I'd rather start two rookies drafted in the 3rd or 4th round over Butler and Caldwell. I have no confidence in either of them.

I thought Butler looked great when filling in, I have no problem with him taking over.

panamamyers
03-21-2012, 09:56 AM
I personally have no doubt at all that Butler is better than Winston.

Now the Caldwell taking over for Brisiel is the one that worries me.

HOU-TEX
03-21-2012, 09:56 AM
I've never been too critical of Smith and our FO up to this point. I'd usually shrug it off as thinking they knew better than I would about the cap/contracts/etc. But, I must say, this trade is horrible no matter how I look at it. It screams of screwing the pooch capwise.

I was ok with letting Winston go because I think Butler has the athleticism to be better. I was even coo with allowing Brisiel to walk once we re-signed Myers. I was fine with Mario leaving because I knew we couldn't afford him. I was going to be ok if Dreessen ended up signing elsewhere too. This, I just can't agree with at all. Just piss poor value in return for a player of D-Ryans caliber.

Sharpton played fairly well in place of D-Ryans, but the dude can't stay on the field long enough to properly evaluate his performance.

All that said, *sigh*, I'm still a Texans fan to the core.

Vinny
03-21-2012, 09:58 AM
I thought Butler looked great when filling in, I have no problem with him taking over.
he was ok in spot duty, but once an opponent gets ready for him and watches film on him and him alone he will either be exposed or...not. It's like watching Cody Carelson play for Moon and do a good job and then Bud thinking that he can just trade Moon and the QB play will be ok. Didn't happen that way because once teams picked him apart on film and gameplanned for him, he was exposed for the limited player that he was. It remains to be seen if Butler can handle this full time. I'm not a big fan of the new Guard either....the right side of the line is a mess if you ask me. A mess for a SB contender. Not a mess for a rebuilding team though.

gtexan02
03-21-2012, 10:05 AM
I hope this doesn't get lost in the flood of this thread. I think this article is really good and very informative.

http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-texans/2012/3/21/2889339/demeco-ryans-trade-shows-texans-vulnerable-to-nfl-realities

Because of the salary cap, good teams can keep about five big money, star level players and then two or three more substars who are integral to the team's success. The rest of the team needs to be filled with older players on smaller salaries, rookies playing out their original contracts and assorted other projects, special teamers, etc.

That's an incredibly simplistic view to roster building, but it's basically what good teams deal with. The New England Patriots are a good example, but the Colts back in their heyday did similar things, just like the Baltimore Ravens have done recently. You can't retain everyone, so you have to prioritize.

disaacks3
03-21-2012, 10:06 AM
Where are these massive holes to fill? The only hole I see worth seriously worrying about is the hole left in depth at LB, which can be reasonably dealt with in the draft.
You guys need to quit with the :overreact: and :firehair: and start with the :firework: and :gotexans1.
With these moves, we got to re-sign our core FA's this season and get to re-sign our core FA's next season. Who the hell do you consider "Core"? We've lost 40% of our starting O-Line, two of our starting LBs (albeit only one was starting at the end of last season), and there's no reason to think the Texans are finished yet. Those ARE pretty massive holes to fill. with the exception of DeMeco, all our other cuts got HUGE contracts elsewhere. It's not unreasonable to think the guys we've lost are more than "serviceable" players.


Next man up fellas.

Winston -> Butler, Newton
Brisiel -> Caldwell, Smith
Dressen -> Casey, Graham
Demeco -> Sharpton?
Williams -> Barwin, Reed
Allen -> Harris, McCain, Carmichael
Don't look too far for replacements y'all. Still got the draft too. Yep, those are the replacements, but don't be surprised if the words "DROP OFF" come up a lot this year.

GP
03-21-2012, 10:32 AM
That doesn't make sense. Cushing was playing the Sam and DeMeco the Mike. Why would they even consider moving Ryans over? When Cushing tried to replace Ryans after the achilles injury, it was a disaster. Clearly, Brian is more comfortable in Wade's 3-4 than in the middle of Frank Bush's 4-3.

Was Ryans in danger of losing his starting spot? That's what we really don't know. You couldn't have a player of Ryans' stature on the bench, much less carry that kind of salary. If Wade was considering replacing DeMeco, he had to go. That's what we'll really never know for sure.

To be fair here, I don't think anybody on that 11-man defense was comfortable in Frank Bush's 43 Defense. They wouldn't have been good for Frank Bush's 56 Defense, nor for any other type of Frank Bush defense.

I saw something like this posted up thread but didn't comment on it, but I will now.

The bolded is simply not how it works. The GM goes to players to ask them to restructure or take paycuts, not the other way around. And in those discussions, do you really think Rick is going to say, "well Eric, I need you to drop 3 million in salary or else we trade of Demeco." That's just laughable. He may say they are pursuing a free agent, but he's not going to pit the guy against a teammate. That's just a ridiculous scenario.

On top of that, the named players listed couldn't even adjust their salaries if they wanted to. Quin, Cushing, Barwin, are on their rookie deals. They can't restructure due to league rules. Winston's gone, OD has no guaranteed money left on his deal, so the team won't ask him to restructure anyways. It's just a silly argument and it makes you look like an ******* for blaming the players on the team. It's not their job to manage the cap, it's the GM's. Winston claimed that Rick didn't even ask him to restructure or take a pay cut, and instead just cut him outright. I think that says it all with regard to this argument.

1.) My hat is off to the Texans players who kept their tweets civil and wisely measured. To those who didn't, they are a detriment to the team chemistry that everyone feels is so vital around here, and those players should be spoken to by whomever does that in the Texans offices.

2.) As to the last part of your post, I don't give 1 penny for what Winston said. He's a self-promoting P.R. machine first and foremost. If his pass pro was as good as his mouth, he'd still be here. They wanted him gone, and I don't care what Winston thinks or says about it. He's gone, the world keeps spinning.

Solomon is a vulture, too. He knew he had some run with this angle of acquiring and using the Soap Opera tweets. He even included "former players," which reeks of POOR journalistic integrity...yeah, I wonder how positive "former Texans" are going to be. The ones tweeting the loudest are going to be the ones pissed off about their own previous situation here. Anything to sell papers or clicks, though.

That's why I give not a crap about the "outrage" because it's all so shallow to me. Sad he's leaving? Fine. Use it to leverage an agenda against the team? Not cool. And that's what most are doing, they're using it as dot to connect to other dots in order to prove their agenda(s). THAT is amateur hour...deluxe.

ThaShark316
03-21-2012, 11:01 AM
2.) As to the last part of your post, I don't give 1 penny for what Winston said. He's a self-promoting P.R. machine first and foremost. If his pass pro was as good as his mouth, he'd still be here. They wanted him gone, and I don't care what Winston thinks or says about it. He's gone, the world keeps spinning.



http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2804/lebronoface.png Damn.

Dutchrudder
03-21-2012, 11:04 AM
1.) My hat is off to the Texans players who kept their tweets civil and wisely measured. To those who didn't, they are a detriment to the team chemistry that everyone feels is so vital around here, and those players should be spoken to by whomever does that in the Texans offices.

2.) As to the last part of your post, I don't give 1 penny for what Winston said. He's a self-promoting P.R. machine first and foremost. If his pass pro was as good as his mouth, he'd still be here. They wanted him gone, and I don't care what Winston thinks or says about it. He's gone, the world keeps spinning.

Solomon is a vulture, too. He knew he had some run with this angle of acquiring and using the Soap Opera tweets. He even included "former players," which reeks of POOR journalistic integrity...yeah, I wonder how positive "former Texans" are going to be. The ones tweeting the loudest are going to be the ones pissed off about their own previous situation here. Anything to sell papers or clicks, though.

That's why I give not a crap about the "outrage" because it's all so shallow to me. Sad he's leaving? Fine. Use it to leverage an agenda against the team? Not cool. And that's what most are doing, they're using it as dot to connect to other dots in order to prove their agenda(s). THAT is amateur hour...deluxe.

GP's defector shield engaged!

http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Deflector-Shields-Could-Be-Installed-on-Ships-2.jpg

So I take it this statement not worth defending?

Players aren't happy. None of them went to Rick and offered to reduce their own salary to keep "such an important piece of the team"???


You seem like you hate the players for tweeting their thoughts. I don't have a problem with it, it's March, we are months away from OTAs and camp. They will get over it by then, and they will have a new batch of 8 rookies to work into the mix. There will be plenty of time to build up team chemistry during a normal offseason workouts and instill Cushing as the new leader of the defense.

HuttoKarl
03-21-2012, 11:08 AM
Draft Vontaze Burfict and let him and Cushing scare the crap out of other teams.

Ryans will definitely be missed by fans...in our short team history, he's been one of the big bright spots, but our management/ownership can't take that big of a cap hit for a guy that's a 2-down LB. Before injury, he was worth it...now it's a cap liability.

Dutchrudder
03-21-2012, 11:09 AM
Quick response: WOW - very interesting. THIS is something people HAVE to understand when we restructure contracts. Everybody talks about "restructure, restructure, restructure"... but they fail to realized we're going to be paying for that in the future. I understand why we did last year, b/c we NEEDED Joseph and Manning. But if we keep restructuring deals we'll be in cap hell in the future moreso than we are now.


So his "revised" cap hits (PRE-TRADE) for the following years would likely be:

2012: $8.4M ($5.9M salary + $1.5M orig. bonus + $1M restructured bonus)
2013: $9.1M ($6.6M salary + $1.5M orig. bonus + $1M restructured bonus)
2014: $9.3M ($6.8M salary + $1.5M orig. bonus + $1M restructured bonus)
2015: $7.8M ($6.8M salary + $0 orig. bonus? + $1M restructured bonus)

POST-TRADE:
2012: $8.5M ($0 salary + $4.5M orig. bonus + $4M restructured bonus)
2013: $0
2014: $0
2015: $0

The net effect will be an extra $100K this year against the cap + adding a LB as depth. But we save $26.2M against the cap over the next 3 years. If we had waited and let him play this season then just flat out release him next year, we'd have a $6M cap hit for 2013.... instead we'll have $0.

On to my thoughts: It hurts. It hurts. It hurts. Demeco is THE quintesential player you want on your team. He's a leader, high character, class act, model citizen, great teammate, hard work and great player. BUT I completely understand why we had to do this. For all the people bitching about Smith and Olsen effing up our cap situation.... this type of move (while a hard one) has to be made to keep us out of cap hell in the future. It sucks, but it's a business and this was in the best interest of the team. I truly believe that. Demeco was simply being paid more than we could afford to pay him. He's been often injured and plays limited snaps. Nobody should discount what we're going to be losing in the locker room (he was a fan and TEAM favorite)... but it's a move that had to be made.

EDIT - About the trade value. I sure wish we could have got more, but I'm fine with the value we got. The total value is probably about a late 3rd round pick. I think the Eagles got a GREAT deal but this benefits us too. So I think its a win-win for both teams. I think we can have another LB in there for better value (although much leadership is lost) and we get a draft pick that could be put to good use. Next offseason we likely would have had to cut him AND take the cap ramifications that year while trying to re-sign Schaub, Brown, Barwin, etc. I think this was a business savvy move and the Texans will be better in the long run for it.

Good post, repped. Thanks for typing out the yearly structure, it really does help others understand the nature of his deal and the savings. The only issue I have with this is that you can't really claim 26.2 million in savings because his salaries are not guaranteed in 2013-15. That's 20.2 million of that money. It's simply 6 million in real savings by not paying him salary + workout bonus for 2012.

I think the trade value was accurate on this one. He's not a proven commodity since his injury, and last year he played like a 4th round guy. He was getting better at the end of the season, but we all know that still wasn't the Ryans of old. He has a way to go, and I hope he does return to 2009 form. He will be awesome in that Philly D that couldn't stop runs up the middle at all last year. Watch for him to get a lot of tackles next year.

drs23
03-21-2012, 11:17 AM
#77 vs. #90 I believe (compensatory picks not added in) fairly substantial along with extra 4th #115. Losing star players like Mario & DeMeco means they are aiming higher in the first round, they have targeted a specific player most notably Luke Kuechly, BC 6-3 245. The top inside linebacker available in the 2012 draft.

I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as our resident draftnics but this is the player that immediately came to mind and he way Rick Smith moves and shakes on draft day, I can see it happening. Major upgrade in my eyes as I've heard nothing but high praise about this cat. If that's the way it comes down I can't see anything other than win-win. JMO of course.

Double Barrel
03-21-2012, 12:20 PM
All of you look like children right now.


:dontknowa

Why do you use "children" as an insult? Some of the most honest and loyal people I know are children. They call it like they see it and their better qualities are ones that most adults would be much improved if they possessed them.

So fans are shocked by the news. That surprises you because....? What is revealing is that fan reactions to unexpected developments regarding a much respected player somehow gives you a moral high ground to arrogantly call people out because their initial reactions were not of the high minded maturity that you seem to to desire.

Abe Lincoln had a quote that comes to my mind now: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

As the Eagle fan who hangs around this place, all I can say is thank you very much.
What I think the Eagles get here is a leader for a defense that badly needed one. Plus he plays a position of need.
Could not have gotten a better man.

As the old saying goes, 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. As a strong disliker of the Cowboys, I have always rooted for the other three NFC east teams by default. Seeing the Eagles improve themselves with a quality player like Ryans only serves to make me even happier to root for them when they play Dallas twice a year.

Good luck, DeMeco! Your tenure with the Texans deserves much love and respect. Kick some ass in Philly and make us proud!

Texan_Bill
03-21-2012, 12:31 PM
:dontknowa

Why do you use "children" as an insult? Some of the most honest and loyal people I know are children. They call it like they see it and their better qualities are ones that most adults would be much improved if they possessed them.

So fans are shocked by the news. That surprises you because....? What is revealing is that fan reactions to unexpected developments regarding a much respected player somehow gives you a moral high ground to arrogantly call people out because their initial reactions were not of the high minded maturity that you seem to to desire.

Abe Lincoln had a quote that comes to my mind now: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."



As the old saying goes, 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. As a strong disliker of the Cowboys, I have always rooted for the other three NFC east teams by default. Seeing the Eagles improve themselves with a quality player like Ryans only serves to make me even happier to root for them when they play Dallas twice a year.

Good luck, DeMeco! Your tenure with the Texans deserves much love and respect. Kick some ass in Philly and make us proud!

Well said, my friend.

Playoffs
03-21-2012, 12:38 PM
Good luck, DeMeco! Your tenure with the Texans deserves much love and respect. Kick some ass in Philly and make us proud!^This.

Demeco has been the heart & soul of the Texans for years. Much appreciated, 59!

May the road rise up to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face;
the rains fall soft upon your fields and until we meet again,
may God hold you in the palm of His hand.

http://avatar.hq-picture.com/avatars/img9/the_godfather_don_vito_corleone_avatar_picture_681 51.jpg
Good luck to you -- as best as your interests don't conflict with our interests.

SW H-TOWN
03-21-2012, 12:52 PM
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as our resident draftnics but this is the player that immediately came to mind and he way Rick Smith moves and shakes on draft day, I can see it happening. Major upgrade in my eyes as I've heard nothing but high praise about this cat. If that's the way it comes down I can't see anything other than win-win. JMO of course.

You are right, Kuechly is a very good prospect. I just think it would be a miracle if he slipped to us because of his college production and combine. He is really really good at pass protection and it would be a shame to draft him and have him come out on passing downs. Our phone would be ringing off the hook if he was sitting there at 26. We would probably trade back a couple of spots and get really good value.

rmartin65
03-21-2012, 12:57 PM
You are right, Kuechly is a very good prospect. I just think it would be a miracle if he slipped to us because of his college production and combine. He is really really good at pass protection and it would be a shame to draft him and have him come out on passing downs. Our phone would be ringing off the hook if he was sitting there at 26. We would probably trade back a couple of spots and get really good value.

Except for you would not trade back. ILB becomes a need, Kuechly fills the need. It is a match made in heaven. Your nickel front 6 would look like-

Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin
Cushing Kuechly

Fan-freaking-tastic

Kimmy
03-21-2012, 01:02 PM
The Houston Texans informed me today that my contract as a Full Time Fan will not be renewed.

I am free to shop other teams for a better offer.


LOL had to share, it was on one of my friends Facebook hahaha

Vinny
03-21-2012, 01:03 PM
The Houston Texans informed me today that my contract as Full Time Fan will not be renewed.

I am free to shop other teams for a better offer.


LOL had to share, it was on one of my friends Facebook hahaha
its the new 2012 theme..."Next Man Out"

ObsiWan
03-21-2012, 01:17 PM
Vinny, I, too, have come to love and respect Demeco. But, I believe his beast days are over. I know many are not convinced of the trend that Achilles-ruptured NFL players have taken following repair, a subject that I reviewed extensively last year. But that player's "best" year typically occurs his first season back from injury. From there, the trend is all down hill, with the strongest downturn seen in the LB position specifically. The Texans may have resigned to this. Philly is more likely to have taken on an albatross than a savior.

In the back of my mind, I thought this was the case. Now that Doc has confirmed it, I feel much better about this trade now.

SheTexan
03-21-2012, 01:25 PM
its the new 2012 theme..."Next Man Out"

Might be "Next Woman Out!" :)

I'm just thinking it might be better to just be a "fan" rather that a "diehard fan." First, I would have to get a gun and shoot my PC, never watch the news, bypass all the mags and newspapers, burn all my Texan stuff, never go to any Texan events, including games, and just not give a sheeeet who plays for us. Maybe there's a positive to being a "bandwaggoner!" :heh:

Goatcheese
03-21-2012, 01:26 PM
The Texodus continues.

CloakNNNdagger
03-21-2012, 01:26 PM
its the new 2012 theme..."Next Man Out"

MSR. Still can't stop laughing!:lol:

kiwitexansfan
03-21-2012, 01:27 PM
In the back of my mind, I thought this was the case. Now that Doc has confirmed it, I feel much better about this trade now.

That is the best case scenario. We traded away ineffective Demeco.

Still doesn't mean I like treating our leader that way.

ObsiWan
03-21-2012, 01:30 PM
That is the best case scenario. We traded away ineffective Demeco.

Still doesn't mean I like treating our leader that way.

Well, I'll still wear my Ryans jersey to games. He's a class act. Maybe he'll bring class to Philly...

...okay perhaps that's too much to ask? Probably.

Goatcheese
03-21-2012, 01:32 PM
Well, I'll still wear my Ryans jersey to games. He's a class act. Maybe he'll bring class to Philly...

...okay perhaps that's too much to ask? Probably.

That's like expecting a rose to make a garbage heap smell good.

NCTexan
03-21-2012, 01:32 PM
In the back of my mind, I thought this was the case. Now that Doc has confirmed it, I feel much better about this trade now.

As much as I like DeMeco, that, along with the cap hit saved next year, makes this bearable.

Runner
03-21-2012, 01:36 PM
That is the best case scenario. We traded away ineffective Demeco.

Still doesn't mean I like treating our leader that way.

Demeco's career being cut short is the best case scenario. Nice.

ObsiWan
03-21-2012, 01:38 PM
Quick response: WOW - very interesting. THIS is something people HAVE to understand when we restructure contracts. Everybody talks about "restructure, restructure, restructure"... but they fail to realized we're going to be paying for that in the future. I understand why we did last year, b/c we NEEDED Joseph and Manning. But if we keep restructuring deals we'll be in cap hell in the future moreso than we are now.


So his "revised" cap hits (PRE-TRADE) for the following years would likely be:

2012: $8.4M ($5.9M salary + $1.5M orig. bonus + $1M restructured bonus)
2013: $9.1M ($6.6M salary + $1.5M orig. bonus + $1M restructured bonus)
2014: $9.3M ($6.8M salary + $1.5M orig. bonus + $1M restructured bonus)
2015: $7.8M ($6.8M salary + $0 orig. bonus? + $1M restructured bonus)

POST-TRADE:
2012: $8.5M ($0 salary + $4.5M orig. bonus + $4M restructured bonus)
2013: $0
2014: $0
2015: $0

The net effect will be an extra $100K this year against the cap + adding a LB as depth. But we save $26.2M against the cap over the next 3 years. If we had waited and let him play this season then just flat out release him next year, we'd have a $6M cap hit for 2013.... instead we'll have $0.

On to my thoughts: It hurts. It hurts. It hurts. Demeco is THE quintesential player you want on your team. He's a leader, high character, class act, model citizen, great teammate, hard work and great player. BUT I completely understand why we had to do this. For all the people bitching about Smith and Olsen effing up our cap situation.... this type of move (while a hard one) has to be made to keep us out of cap hell in the future. It sucks, but it's a business and this was in the best interest of the team. I truly believe that. Demeco was simply being paid more than we could afford to pay him. He's been often injured and plays limited snaps. Nobody should discount what we're going to be losing in the locker room (he was a fan and TEAM favorite)... but it's a move that had to be made.

EDIT - About the trade value. I sure wish we could have got more, but I'm fine with the value we got. The total value is probably about a late 3rd round pick. I think the Eagles got a GREAT deal but this benefits us too. So I think its a win-win for both teams. I think we can have another LB in there for better value (although much leadership is lost) and we get a draft pick that could be put to good use. Next offseason we likely would have had to cut him AND take the cap ramifications that year while trying to re-sign Schaub, Brown, Barwin, etc. I think this was a business savvy move and the Texans will be better in the long run for it.

Excellent and educational post. Repped.

I don't like this move, but between your post and CnnnD's, I understand it.

As you pointed out, more of these sort of moves will have to be made in the future as our quality guys get more and more expensive. Let's hope the coaching and scouting staffs keep quality backups in the pipeline.

Mike Kerns
03-21-2012, 01:39 PM
Wow, all of the guys on the header right now (DeMeco, Mario, Reggie Bush) are with different teams today. Time for a new coat of paint, I guess.

Playoffs
03-21-2012, 01:41 PM
Vinny, I, too, have come to love and respect Demeco. But, I believe his beast days are over. I know many are not convinced of the trend that Achilles-ruptured NFL players have taken following repair, a subject that I reviewed extensively last year. But that player's "best" year typically occurs his first season back from injury. From there, the trend is all down hill, with the strongest downturn seen in the LB position specifically. The Texans may have resigned to this. Philly is more likely to have taken on an albatross than a savior.
Cowboys were pursuing Demeco but team doctors warned the team off him. Supposedly prepared to drop a 3rd rounder for him before that.

Runner
03-21-2012, 01:41 PM
In the back of my mind, I thought this was the case. Now that Doc has confirmed it, I feel much better about this trade now.

Not to keep beating the dead elephant in the room, but...

...didn't CnD also have reservations about Dre ever getting his explosiveness back?

This team is dangerously close to having a one dimensional offense (after losing a good run blocker). That may work in their weak division, but the playoffs might be....difficult.

SW H-TOWN
03-21-2012, 01:45 PM
Except for you would not trade back. ILB becomes a need, Kuechly fills the need. It is a match made in heaven. Your nickel front 6 would look like-

Reed-Watt-Smith-Barwin
Cushing Kuechly

Fan-freaking-tastic

You are right, that would be an amazing LB core. I just don't believe that the Texans are going to spend a 1st on a guy who would play only in our base defense. I think I read that Ryans played 57% of the snaps. They might draft Hightower if he was sitting at 26 because he also rushed the passer when at Alabama. If Kuechly was sitting at 26 I believe that we would be getting teams offering us great deals and Smith would accept. He is a better fit for a 4-3 mlb or the position that Cushing plays, JMO.

rmartin65
03-21-2012, 01:48 PM
You are right, that would be an amazing LB core. I just don't believe that the Texans are going to spend a 1st on a guy who would play only in our base defense. I think I read that Ryans played 57% of the snaps. They might draft Hightower if he was sitting at 26 because he also rushed the passer when at Alabama. If Kuechly was sitting at 26 I believe that we would be getting teams offering us great deals and Smith would accept. He is a better fit for a 4-3 mlb or the position that Cushing plays, JMO.

But that is the nickel? In the base D (front 7)-

Watt-Cody-Smith
Reed-Cushing-Kuechly-Barwin

Kuechly is a true 3 down player. I would argue more so than Hightower.

HOU-TEX
03-21-2012, 01:54 PM
I think anyone who might be thinking D-Ryans won't be an effective player anymore are just trying to make themselves feel better about this trade. There's no doubt in my mind he will be the leader and most effective player on the Eagles D.

Normally I begin to feel better about these kinda things a day or two later. Well, I don't and highly doubt I ever will. Bad trade

Vinny
03-21-2012, 01:56 PM
I think anyone who might be thinking D-Ryans won't be an effective player anymore are just trying to make themselves feel better about this trade. There's no doubt in my mind he will be the leader and most effective player on the Eagles D.

Normally I begin to feel better about these kinda things a day or two later. Well, I don't and highly doubt I ever will. Bad trade
he was active and played at a high level at the end of the year...he's gonna play well next season

GP
03-21-2012, 01:59 PM
:dontknowa

Why do you use "children" as an insult? Some of the most honest and loyal people I know are children. They call it like they see it and their better qualities are ones that most adults would be much improved if they possessed them.

So fans are shocked by the news. That surprises you because....? What is revealing is that fan reactions to unexpected developments regarding a much respected player somehow gives you a moral high ground to arrogantly call people out because their initial reactions were not of the high minded maturity that you seem to to desire.

Abe Lincoln had a quote that comes to my mind now: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."



As the old saying goes, 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. As a strong disliker of the Cowboys, I have always rooted for the other three NFC east teams by default. Seeing the Eagles improve themselves with a quality player like Ryans only serves to make me even happier to root for them when they play Dallas twice a year.

Good luck, DeMeco! Your tenure with the Texans deserves much love and respect. Kick some ass in Philly and make us proud!

Because of the sheer craziness.

Want to say you're sad? Fine. Want to say you disagree with the move? Fine. Everybody had a knot in their stomach to some degree.

But the full-on assault on our team's management, the hateful and crude things said...that's child's play. Period.

It is what it is. Anybody in the first 10 pages of that thread, if they said they thought it was a good move, those posters got attacked on a personal level and it was awful. I got thoroughly cussed out and yet me saying people were acting like children is WORSE??? Thanks, Roger Goodell, for the subjective reasoning on that one.

It was an eye-opening experience to see fellow fans turn into stark raving lunatics over the trade of a fan favorite. And to slash and burn their way through the thread.

We've still got one Ryans fan who is adamant that we "let him walk away and got nothing for him." LOL. We got value for him, would've got a 3rd rounder too if Cowboys physicians hadn't scared Jerry away from it.

I've been brutalized on here with super-foul language that is appalling, I don't think saying the word "children" (for THIS situation) was as harsh as you make it out to be. But hey, if it stokes the fire and gets you some run...so be it, I suppose.

SW H-TOWN
03-21-2012, 02:01 PM
But that is the nickel? In the base D (front 7)-

Watt-Cody-Smith
Reed-Cushing-Kuechly-Barwin

Kuechly is a true 3 down player. I would argue more so than Hightower.

On passing downs we leave Cushing in and take out the other MLB, that would be Kuechly. He would be great in Cushing's roll but he is indeed a 3 down backer. We will probably draft a MLB who comes out during passing situations. If Hightower is sitting there at 26 I could see us drafting him because he can play MLB and OLB in a 3-4 defense.

GP
03-21-2012, 02:02 PM
he was active and played at a high level at the end of the year...he's gonna play well next season

Subjective statement, IMO.

I'll wait and see. No predictions from me, because I think it could go either way. I have the odds set a bit on the side of being "steady" not "super."

Vinny
03-21-2012, 02:05 PM
I've been brutalized on here with super-foul language that is appalling, I don't think saying the word "children" (for THIS situation) was as harsh as you make it out to be. But hey, if it stokes the fire and gets you some run...so be it, I suppose.lol, poor widdle GP :wadepalm:

Rey
03-21-2012, 02:05 PM
You are right, that would be an amazing LB core. I just don't believe that the Texans are going to spend a 1st on a guy who would play only in our base defense. I think I read that Ryans played 57% of the snaps. They might draft Hightower if he was sitting at 26 because he also rushed the passer when at Alabama. If Kuechly was sitting at 26 I believe that we would be getting teams offering us great deals and Smith would accept. He is a better fit for a 4-3 mlb or the position that Cushing plays, JMO.

100% agreed.

Part of our improved pass defense last year was due to bumping Glover down to a joker type position and bringing in an extra safety and letting McCain cover the slot...

I don't think any ILB is going to be playing a whole bunch more than Demeco did and I think that was part of the reason we traded Demeco...

Goatcheese
03-21-2012, 02:06 PM
On passing downs we leave Cushing in and take out the other MLB, that would be Kuechly. He would be great in Cushing's roll but he is indeed a 3 down backer. We will probably draft a MLB who comes out during passing situations. If Hightower is sitting there at 26 I could see us drafting him because he can play MLB and OLB in a 3-4 defense.

When we go to nickle, the only change is that the NT comes out. Ryans play time was being limited because of his injury. We still had a LB out there(usually Sharpton) in his place until we went to dime or quarter defense.

SW H-TOWN
03-21-2012, 02:13 PM
When we go to nickle, the only change is that the NT comes out. Ryans play time was being limited because of his injury. We still had a LB out there(usually Sharpton) in his place until we went to dime or quarter defense.

I believe that we are going have a guy playing next to Cushing who comes out when we go to our nickle defense like Ryans did, JMO.

Runner
03-21-2012, 02:22 PM
A Texans Classic

Lennie: Tell me why the Texans will be good, George. Tell me why.

George: Oh Lennie, don't you ever get tired of this?

Lennie: Please tell me, George.

George: OK. The Texans are great because they are led by wise men, called "professionals", who never makes mistakes. One of them is Kubiak. He makes everything a little better. Even when they are worse, they are better. We just aren't smart enough to understand.

Lennie: I understand.

George: And then there is Smith. He also does everything right. When the team finally became good, he decided to rebuild it. He got rid of a bunch of players they don't need anymore, and replaced them wi...BANG!!!!!!

Honoring Earl 34
03-21-2012, 02:28 PM
A Texans Classic

Lennie: Tell me why the Texans will be good, George. Tell me why.

George: Oh Lennie, don't you ever get tired of this?

Lennie: Please tell me, George.

George: OK. The Texans are great because they are led by wise men, called "professionals", who never makes mistakes. One of them is Kubiak. He makes everything a little better. Even when they are worse, they are better. We just aren't smart enough to understand.

Lennie: I understand.

George: And then there is Smith. He also does everything right. When the team finally became good, he decided to rebuild it. He got rid of a bunch of players they don't need anymore, and replaced them wi...BANG!!!!!!With rabbits and the salt of the earth ?

Runner
03-21-2012, 02:37 PM
[/B]With rabbits and the salt of the earth ?

Very soft rabbits.

Double Barrel
03-21-2012, 02:41 PM
Because of the sheer craziness.

Want to say you're sad? Fine. Want to say you disagree with the move? Fine. Everybody had a knot in their stomach to some degree.

But the full-on assault on our team's management, the hateful and crude things said...that's child's play. Period.

It is what it is. Anybody in the first 10 pages of that thread, if they said they thought it was a good move, those posters got attacked on a personal level and it was awful. I got thoroughly cussed out and yet me saying people were acting like children is WORSE??? Thanks, Roger Goodell, for the subjective reasoning on that one.

It was an eye-opening experience to see fellow fans turn into stark raving lunatics over the trade of a fan favorite. And to slash and burn their way through the thread.

We've still got one Ryans fan who is adamant that we "let him walk away and got nothing for him." LOL. We got value for him, would've got a 3rd rounder too if Cowboys physicians hadn't scared Jerry away from it.

I've been brutalized on here with super-foul language that is appalling, I don't think saying the word "children" (for THIS situation) was as harsh as you make it out to be. But hey, if it stokes the fire and gets you some run...so be it, I suppose.

It's the nature of FANATICS. Emotions run high and venting is part of the deal. Personally, I cut some slack in the initial 24 hours after unexpected big news.

And let's cut through the crap and not kid ourselves here. It is not like this front office and head coach has a vast reserve of positive fan sentiment built up from years of winning tradition. Rick and Gary have 6 seasons now, and only one worth talking about. Skepticism runs high, and the only thing that will alleviate it has yet to come. Time will tell in that regard.

Bulls on Parade
03-21-2012, 03:14 PM
Wow, all of the guys on the header right now (DeMeco, Mario, Reggie Bush) are with different teams today. Time for a new coat of paint, I guess.
Also the big Super Mario one. I'm trying to get over losing Mario and DeMeco but that's the first thing I see when I sign into TexansTalk.

Speedy
03-21-2012, 03:18 PM
Might be "Next Woman Out!" :)

I'm just thinking it might be better to just be a "fan" rather that a "diehard fan." First, I would have to get a gun and shoot my PC, never watch the news, bypass all the mags and newspapers, burn all my Texan stuff, never go to any Texan events, including games, and just not give a sheeeet who plays for us. Maybe there's a positive to being a "bandwaggoner!" :heh:

It's why I don't buy a jersey with a player's name on it, but one with my name instead. I'm a fan of the football team first. I'll have my favorite players and will root for them and all that, but it's because I want the TEAM to do well, not just the individual(s). Even AJ will not be a Texan some day, but I'll still be a Texans fan.

And maybe some of this wouldn't be so bad if they were getting something in return. So far, they've lost Winston, Briesel, Ryans, Mario, Allen, and they've got a 4th round pick and maybe a couple of supp. picks next year to show for it.

Plus, you thought Tim Tebow was a miracle worker? He ain't nothing compared to the miracle of Jacoby Jones still being on this team. How any of those guys are gone before him just doesn't translate to me.

Honoring Earl 34
03-21-2012, 03:25 PM
This reminds me of the Chester Pitts releasing . Chester got cut and folks thought it's the end of the world because he was an original Texan . They thought Chester was so good and how could we be so dumb to cut such a talent . Well ... how did that work out ?

Vinny
03-21-2012, 03:28 PM
The newest Eagle DeMeco Ryans met the Philly media for the first time today and expressed his surprise and excitement after being traded by the Texans after 7 seasons. Ryans said he had no idea a trade was coming and was preparing for another season in Houston, but he was excited to learn that he’d be coming to a team as successful as the Eagles have been in recent years.

Andy Reid told reporters that considers Ryans to be "one of the top 4-3 middle linebackers in the NFL" and that having Ryans is "like having a QB on the defensive side of the ball." The coach says that Ryans’ experience will be important for the Eagles young LB corps.

Ryans said he was looking forward to getting back in a 4-3 defense, where he says he’s a natural fit inside. He’s played MIKE in a 4-3 since high school, but when the Texans shifted a 3-4 last season, he was clearly miscast as a weakside backer in that scheme. He says he’s looking forward to being back in natural position.

As for the Achillies injury that he suffered in 2010, Ryans admitted that it it did slow him at the beginning of last year, but at the end of the season he was feeling like his old self again. He declared that he’s back to 100% now.

Eagles GM Howie Roseman says that the team believes DeMeco played his best football in the playoffs last year. They had also went back and looked at tape of him playing in a 4-3 system when the Texans played the NFC East 2 years ago and were impressed by what they saw. http://philly.sbnation.com/philadelphia-eagles/2012/3/21/2891763/demeco-ryans-press-conference-pro-bowl-lb-excited-to-join-eagles

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 03:30 PM
he was active and played at a high level at the end of the year...he's gonna play well next season

Agreed. Everyone is fooled and think he's done with due to his injuries. Dude. He's 27 freakin' years old. And he was starting to regain his usual form and was killin' it late in the year. Like I said, seems like some people just missed that part.

Vinny
03-21-2012, 03:31 PM
Agreed. Everyone is fooled and think he's done with due to his injuries. Dude. He's 27 freakin' years old. And he was starting to regain his usual form and was killin' it late in the year. Like I said, seems like some people just missed that part.He's in his prime right now.

Blake
03-21-2012, 03:31 PM
Lets let the film do the talking.

Vinny
03-21-2012, 03:32 PM
Lets let the film do the talking.
He looked great on film at the end of the year...despite what some here say.
Eagles GM Howie Roseman says that the team believes DeMeco played his best football in the playoffs last year. They had also went back and looked at tape of him playing in a 4-3 system when the Texans played the NFC East 2 years ago and were impressed by what they saw.

Thorn
03-21-2012, 03:39 PM
So what if he goes to Philly and kills the league, or ends up being forgotten because of poor play? Either case doesn't change the fact he is no longer a Texan. Players change teams all the time. Don't be surprised when one or more on that long list of FAs we have coming up next year leaves as well.

NETxTexanFan
03-21-2012, 03:48 PM
Texans finish this upcoming season 9-7 and only make wild card due to a weak division. Lose lopsidedly in the wild card game.

noxiousdog
03-21-2012, 03:55 PM
He looked great on film at the end of the year...despite what some here say.

He looked better on film at the end of year. Despite what some here say.

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 04:02 PM
Texans finish this upcoming season 9-7 and only make wild card due to a weak division. Lose lopsidedly in the wild card game.


Tell us more, Nostradum---Nostradamus.

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 04:04 PM
So what if he goes to Philly and kills the league, or ends up being forgotten because of poor play? Either case doesn't change the fact he is no longer a Texan. Players change teams all the time. Don't be surprised when one or more on that long list of FAs we have coming up next year leaves as well.

What a ridiculous attitude that is.

Yeah, I'll reallllllllllly be okay when he goes to Philly and tears it up like he always does, completely invalidating any of the "positives" of this trade that so many people are trying to pump up in order to rationalize how stupid it is.

Yeah.

dalemurphy
03-21-2012, 04:08 PM
He looked great on film at the end of the year...despite what some here say.

I love Demeco Ryans. I am not excited about this trade, mainly because I am concerned about the loss of leadership on the field. I also agree that Demeco looked much better late in the year than he did early in the year.

Still, I get the trade. First, Demeco is not a good blitzer nor is he strong in coverage (whether healthy or not his coverage skills have never been strong). In the 3-4, I think this creates a problem. Since Cushing is a great blitzer, it is important that the other ILB can drop effectively into coverage.

Beyond the differences with the 3-4 and 4-3 is the fact that the traditional MLB is an endangered species (similar to the traditional SS). The passing game is so prevalent and the specialty packages so central to weekly gameplans that players like Demeco are becoming marginalized. From a strictly X's and O's perspective, I think this trade makes a ton of sense. However, we'll see how the loss of their captain affects the team in reality. The loss of his leadership is something to be concerned about and something that can't be replaced with a mid round draft pick.

Thorn
03-21-2012, 04:15 PM
What a ridiculous attitude that is.

Yeah, I'll reallllllllllly be okay when he goes to Philly and tears it up like he always does, completely invalidating any of the "positives" of this trade that so many people are trying to pump up in order to rationalize how stupid it is.

Yeah.

How is it rediculous? It doesn't matter what he does in Philly, because unless he's doing it against the Texans, it neither helps or hurts them. He's gone. I with the ones who wish he was still here, he was one of my favorite players.

But he's gone and there is nothing the ordinary fan can do except move on. And ***** about here I suppose.

Malloy
03-21-2012, 04:17 PM
How is it rediculous? It doesn't matter what he does in Philly, because unless he's doing it against the Texans, it neither helps or hurts them. He's gone. I with the ones who wish he was still here, he was one of my favorite players.

But he's gone and there is nothing the ordinary fan can do except move on. And ***** about here I suppose.

Hear ya old man. Cheers, it's stout time :)

Ole Miss Texan
03-21-2012, 04:18 PM
I love Demeco Ryans. I am not excited about this trade, mainly because I am concerned about the loss of leadership on the field. I also agree that Demeco looked much better late in the year than he did early in the year.

Still, I get the trade. First, Demeco is not a good blitzer nor is he strong in coverage (whether healthy or not his coverage skills have never been strong). In the 3-4, I think this creates a problem. Since Cushing is a great blitzer, it is important that the other ILB can drop effectively into coverage.

Beyond the differences with the 3-4 and 4-3 is the fact that the traditional MLB is an endangered species (similar to the traditional SS). The passing game is so prevalent and the specialty packages so central to weekly gameplans that players like Demeco are becoming marginalized. From a strictly X's and O's perspective, I think this trade makes a ton of sense. However, we'll see how the loss of their captain affects the team in reality. The loss of his leadership is something to be concerned about and something that can't be replaced with a mid round draft pick.
Great post Dale, I agree. The loss of his leadership gets me, not just on the field but off the field as well. He's a guy the ENTIRE team has tremendous respect for. We're all know last season's mantra of Next Man Up. Well, now it's time for somebody to step up and command that leadership role and move forward. JJ Watt seems to be a good cadidate. I'm not talking about "team captain", I'm talking about the true leader that steps up and leads his team when the going gets tough. Right now, it's tough for all the Texans players.

The same can be said in any organization or business - It happens in real life too. When your company's CEO moves on or your Church's pastor moves on, there can be a HUGE void. It's a natural course of life, but there's always somebody that steps in to fill it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. This is a whole new era in Texans football.... and a new leader will (need to) emerge.

HuttoKarl
03-21-2012, 04:21 PM
It's why I don't buy a jersey with a player's name on it, but one with my name instead. I'm a fan of the football team first. I'll have my favorite players and will root for them and all that, but it's because I want the TEAM to do well, not just the individual(s). Even AJ will not be a Texan some day, but I'll still be a Texans fan.

And maybe some of this wouldn't be so bad if they were getting something in return. So far, they've lost Winston, Briesel, Ryans, Mario, Allen, and they've got a 4th round pick and maybe a couple of supp. picks next year to show for it.

Plus, you thought Tim Tebow was a miracle worker? He ain't nothing compared to the miracle of Jacoby Jones still being on this team. How any of those guys are gone before him just doesn't translate to me.

If you think buying a player's jersey is bad...check these unfortunate dopes out...

http://www.jockular.com/13767/three-people-regretting-tim-tebow-trade-more-than-tim-tebow

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 04:27 PM
How is it rediculous? It doesn't matter what he does in Philly, because unless he's doing it against the Texans, it neither helps or hurts them. He's gone. I with the ones who wish he was still here, he was one of my favorite players.

But he's gone and there is nothing the ordinary fan can do except move on. And ***** about here I suppose.

Because moving him was stupid, and the people who are positive with their reactions here (and especially, the ones who are so condescending towards people with negative reactions) will have their argument as to why this was a good deal shot to high heaven.

Newsflash: It DOES hurt us if he kicks ass in Philly, because he should have been kicking ass here for life.

Rey
03-21-2012, 04:29 PM
I'm not really worried abou this at all...In fact it makes me more optimistic about the upcoming season...

Malloy
03-21-2012, 04:39 PM
Because moving him was stupid, and the people who are positive with their reactions here (and especially, the ones who are so condescending towards people with negative reactions) will have their argument as to why this was a good deal shot to high heaven.

Newsflash: It DOES hurt us if he kicks ass in Philly, because he should have been kicking ass here for life.

I would not go as far as to call them all 'positive reactions', not negative does not equal positive. Some may be pragmatic, apathic or even rational, but common for them all they're entitled to their opinion, whether you like it or not.

Were who's kicking ass and when, that's pure speculation... a player might work out one place but not the other, anything else is Madden-logics.

Time to get drunk, I'll have a stout for Demeco, cheers to a great player and may he have success in Philly!

Honoring Earl 34
03-21-2012, 04:54 PM
Because moving him was stupid, and the people who are positive with their reactions here (and especially, the ones who are so condescending towards people with negative reactions) will have their argument as to why this was a good deal shot to high heaven.

Newsflash: It DOES hurt us if he kicks ass in Philly, because he should have been kicking ass here for life.

Just makes you wonder how the Texans only got a 4th for Ryans . I thought he'd be worth at least a 1st and a 2nd . They must have turned them better deals down .

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 05:10 PM
Well no, he's not worth a 1st AND 2nd and nobody would have given that for him, lol.

Honoring Earl 34
03-21-2012, 05:12 PM
Well no, he's not worth a 1st AND 2nd and nobody would have given that for him, lol.

Ok ... why not a 2nd for this stud Mcmuffin ?

zwest1231
03-21-2012, 05:14 PM
Ok ... why not a 2nd for this stud Mcmuffin ?

high salary player coming off injury plagued season coming off injury shortened season :wadepalm:

Honoring Earl 34
03-21-2012, 05:17 PM
high salary player coming off injury plagued season coming off injury shortened season :wadepalm:

So the market was a warm 6 pack and a bag a chips for a stud of this caliber .... dang . I guess sentimental value may be worth a 1st but reality is beer and chips .

TimeKiller
03-21-2012, 05:28 PM
Just makes you wonder how the Texans only got a 4th for Ryans . I thought he'd be worth at least a 1st and a 2nd . They must have turned them better deals down .

Geez, what do you think they could get for Foster? A chunk of the moon?

The deal sounds about right. I got his jersey, should tell you something about what I thought of him. It sucks right now. Front office has to do what they have to do, if this is what they believe is the right thing to do.....well, just gotta wait to see what the final plan is. I think this draft goes fairly deep so a 4th rounder just might get you a guy to start.

I'm definitely ready for some good news lol...

They've cut about everyone not named Jacoby!!!!!!!!

CAN I GET A JACOBY/SOAP AVATAR PLEASE?!?!?! Where's Falsestart at?!

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 05:30 PM
Ok ... why not a 2nd for this stud Mcmuffin ?

Keep being transparent.

ObsiWan
03-21-2012, 05:32 PM
Just makes you wonder how the Texans only got a 4th for Ryans . I thought he'd be worth at least a 1st and a 2nd . They must have turned them better deals down .

That's starting QB territory. No one would give two first day picks for a ILB. MAaaaaaybe a 1st OR a 2nd for a starting CB or pass rusher. But not for a guy that comes off the field after first down.


...and DeMeco's is one of the few Texans' jerseys I own so I'm not thrilled about this move either.

But apparently he doesn't fit Wade's system or Wade considers him readily replaceable.... otherwise, why wouldn't Wade leave him on the field for all three downs??

Honoring Earl 34
03-21-2012, 05:36 PM
Keep being transparent.

Keep being a jitled teen who didn't get asked to the prom . :pissed:

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 05:49 PM
Keep being a jitled teen who didn't get asked to the prom . :pissed:

I didn't even have a prom. The grade above us was stupid and got drunk and my school cancelled all future proms.

Sorry to burst your joke, which would have been so utterly hilarious and prescient otherwise.

ThaShark316
03-21-2012, 05:57 PM
So what if he goes to Philly and kills the league, or ends up being forgotten because of poor play? Either case doesn't change the fact he is no longer a Texan. Players change teams all the time. Don't be surprised when one or more on that long list of FAs we have coming up next year leaves as well.

http://static.bbmp3.com/smilies/agreement1.gif

Big Lou
03-21-2012, 05:59 PM
That's starting QB territory. No one would give two first day picks for a ILB. MAaaaaaybe a 1st OR a 2nd for a starting CB or pass rusher. But not for a guy that comes off the field after first down.


...and DeMeco's is one of the few Texans' jerseys I own so I'm not thrilled about this move either.

But apparently he doesn't fit Wade's system or Wade considers him readily replaceable.... otherwise, why wouldn't Wade leave him on the field for all three downs??

Yeh, I'm down to my Battle Red Dre Jersey, this is getting ridiculous.

I have to retire Meco's Jersey to the Sharper, Glenn, HWSNBN portion of my closet. I will put his near Glenn and no where near #8.1 since he is not worthy of bieng near Ryans.

Guess I will stick with AJ's Jerseys from now on, they better never cut or trade him regardless, he needs to retire a Texan hopefully that will be many moons from now, several SB's, and all 1,000 yard seasons.........

Rey
03-21-2012, 06:00 PM
http://static.bbmp3.com/smilies/agreement1.gif

Your sig is almost the exact opposite of what Runner said earlier in the thread about the attitude regarding the players before and after being cut.


:kitten:

Rey
03-21-2012, 06:02 PM
Yeh, I'm down to my Battle Red Dre Jersey, this is getting ridiculous.

I have to retire Meco's Jersey to the Sharper, Glenn, HWSNBN portion of my closet. I will put his near Glenn and no where near #8.1 since he is not worthy of bieng near Ryans.

Guess I will stick with AJ's Jerseys from now on, they better never cut or trade him regardless, he needs to retire a Texan hopefully that will be many moons from now, several SB's, and all 1,000 yard seasons.........

Hopefully he does retire a Texan, but we've just seen the Colts cut Peyton Manning and the 49ers parted ways with Jerry Rice...

And there are a ton more examples of iconic/beloved/legendary players being cut or not re-signed with the team where they made their name...

TexanBacker93
03-21-2012, 06:11 PM
I get the feeling more people are upset about having to retire another jersey in their closet than actually losing the player himself. :stirpot:

ThaShark316
03-21-2012, 06:18 PM
Gonna be some slow walking and sad talking when the Texans trade 33 year old JJ Watt to OAK for a 1st round pick.

Doppelganger
03-21-2012, 06:18 PM
I cheer for the name on the front of the jersey not the back.

Meco was a fine player, but he is no longer a Texan. I don't care what he does at this point.

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 06:39 PM
I cheer for the name on the front of the jersey not the back.

Meco was a fine player, but he is no longer a Texan. I don't care what he does at this point.

That's a pretty ****ty attitude. Why do they bother playing for you and your enjoyment? Why even care about what anybody on the team does while they're here if you're just going to toss them aside after they're done? If a player retires, they too are no longer Texans. Do we stop caring about them too?

What good is a team's success if you can't feel happy for and love the players that brought a team success?

DeMeco did nothing to deserve that type of attitude. If he was a piece of **** here or on his way out, I could understand that sentiment. Holy crap.

Lame.

mussop
03-21-2012, 06:46 PM
Just makes you wonder how the Texans only got a 4th for Ryans . I thought he'd be worth at least a 1st and a 2nd . They must have turned them better deals down .


REPOST!

Actually we got the value of a mid 3rd round pick for Ryans. Going by the draft value chart anyway. The value of the fourth round pick we got is 145 points and the value of moving up from 89 to 77 is 60 points so that comes out o 205 points total which is the equivalent of the 13th pick in the 3rd round.


Lots of options

Its possible now that we could combine our 3rd (77th, 205 points) and their 4th (89th, 145 points) and move up as far as the 55th pick.

So we would end up having the same amount of picks but 3 in the top 58. Not bad!

OR

Package our first with their fourth and move up to around the 20th pick.

DocBar
03-21-2012, 06:46 PM
That's a pretty ****ty attitude. Why do they bother playing for you and your enjoyment? Why even care about what anybody on the team does while they're here if you're just going to toss them aside after they're done? If a player retires, they too are no longer Texans. Do we stop caring about them too?

What good is a team's success if you can't feel happy for and love the players that brought a team success?

DeMeco did nothing to deserve that type of attitude. If he was a piece of **** here or on his way out, I could understand that sentiment. Holy crap.

Lame.I'm sure the players play for the love of the game, but they damned sure aren't above the money!!:kitten:

Texecutioner
03-21-2012, 06:47 PM
Gonna be some slow walking and sad talking when the Texans trade 33 year old JJ Watt to OAK for a 1st round pick.

Hell they could trade him right now for a 3rd rounder and 2 6th rounders and you of all people would act like the Texans management is genius for it as usual.

ArlingtonTexan
03-21-2012, 06:48 PM
That's a pretty ****ty attitude. Why do they bother playing for you and your enjoyment? Why even care about what anybody on the team does while they're here?

What good is a team's success if you can't feel happy for and love the players that brought a team success?

Lame.

In a lot of ways, it is protection of one's self from when a player leaves because he wants or the team jettisons some dude for a reason.

While players and the organization talk about the fans and all that jazz, at the end of the day players watch out themselves and their families (as they should) and teams watch out for the organizations success (money and winning both) as they should.

Both play for your enjoyment becasue its an industry which makes both players and the organization bunches of money; more than most fans can fathom. I enjoy football and enjoy being a Texans fan, but I in noway think that either group in the truest sense of the idea give a damn about me.

Runner
03-21-2012, 06:50 PM
Your sig is almost the exact opposite of what Runner said earlier in the thread about the attitude regarding the players before and after being cut.


:kitten:

The majority of this board is the exact opposite of what I say.


And given what I know about groupthink, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Playoffs
03-21-2012, 06:50 PM
http://www.sadanduseless.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/gif/546.gif

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 06:51 PM
I know that much, but I'm still watching them for my entertainment and there is no way I'll enjoy any team success if I'm not loving the players bringing my team success. It's the same way I could never be a Laker or Raider fan. Their organization and players are so unlikeable that even if they won a championship, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it.

There's something to be said about falling in love with the guys on the field too.

Doppelganger
03-21-2012, 06:53 PM
That's a pretty ****ty attitude. Why do they bother playing for you and your enjoyment? Why even care about what anybody on the team does while they're here if you're just going to toss them aside after they're done? If a player retires, they too are no longer Texans. Do we stop caring about them too?

What good is a team's success if you can't feel happy for and love the players that brought a team success?

DeMeco did nothing to deserve that type of attitude. If he was a piece of **** here or on his way out, I could understand that sentiment. Holy crap.

Lame.

Just becuase you disagree with me does not mean I am lame nor do I have a ****ty attitude. I cheer for the Texans, I don't cheer for the players. Demeco is a player. Nothing more. He was a good player while here, but he did what was expected of him. He did a good job and was justly rewarded with his contract.

And for the record, players play for the money. They may say they are playing for the fans or the love of the game, but its all about the $. And there is nothing wrong with that. Players need to look out for themselves just like the teams do. I will cheer for the team LONG after Demco retires, whether he was a lifelong Texan or not.

Doppelganger
03-21-2012, 06:57 PM
I know that much, but I'm still watching them for my entertainment and there is no way I'll enjoy any team success if I'm not loving the players bringing my team success. It's the same way I could never be a Laker or Raider fan. Their organization and players are so unlikeable that even if they won a championship, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it.

There's something to be said about falling in love with the guys on the field too.

That is your perspective and that is perfectly fine. I simply choose not to support individual players since they are here one day and gone the next. Carr, Winston, Mario, and Meco are all players people thought would be lifelong Texans.

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 06:59 PM
Just becuase you disagree with me does not mean I am lame nor do I have a ****ty attitude. I cheer for the Texans, I don't cheer for the players. Demeco is a player. Nothing more. He was a good player while here, but he did what was expected of him. He did a good job and was justly rewarded with his contract.

And for the record, players play for the money. They may say they are playing for the fans or the love of the game, but its all about the $. And there is nothing wrong with that. Players need to look out for themselves just like the teams do. I will cheer for the team LONG after Demco retires, whether he was a lifelong Texan or not.


And just because you have your right to an opinion doesn't mean I have the right to call that opinion or attitude ****ty.

I think your attitude of players being "nothing more" is ****ty.

I'll root for the Texans long after DeMeco or anyone goes. Hell, my existence as a Texans fan got cemented because of David Carr and we all know the situation with that and I'm still here. I'm not saying I'm only a player fan or anything, but I think that the sentiment you hold is totally cold, and that it's a good thing you're not an owner or a GM because nobody would want to play for you.

I mean, I don't get it. You don't yell out during games or say "Thattaboy, Cush!" or "There you go, Dre!". Nothing? You just sit there and clap/yell only after we're done with the game? How....hm....frigid.

Doppelganger
03-21-2012, 07:01 PM
In a lot of ways, it is protection of one's self from when a player leaves because he wants or the team jettisons some dude for a reason.

While players and the organization talk about the fans and all that jazz, at the end of the day players watch out themselves and their families (as they should) and teams watch out for the organizations success (money and winning both) as they should.

Both play for your enjoyment becasue its an industry which makes both players and the organization bunches of money; more than most fans can fathom. I enjoy football and enjoy being a Texans fan, but I in noway think that either group in the truest sense of the idea give a damn about me.

Yeah, you could say its self defensive. I was a HUGE Nolan fan as a kid and remember where I was when he broke the strikeout record (I was with my dad at a mechanic getting the family car fixed. A group of mechanics were surrounding the TV and we all cheered him on!). The day he left the team I realized it was a business and that its better to be attached to the team than players. In most cases, the team outlasts players (unless you were a Houston Oilers fan!)

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 07:03 PM
I can definitely get behind the idea that it's all psychological and a defense mechanism. Would make totally sense, given the way people are.

Maddict5
03-21-2012, 07:08 PM
so why's this thread still here in the bullpen?

thought the mods had a new policy that a thread involving any ex-player gets moved within 3 hrs of the transaction happening? you know like mario or will someone just admit that was a once off petty, butthurt move cos they were pissed he left

Maddict5
03-21-2012, 07:09 PM
:stirpot:


:kitten:

Texan_Bill
03-21-2012, 07:12 PM
so why's this thread still here in the bullpen?

thought the mods had a new policy that a thread involving any ex-player gets moved within 3 hrs of the transaction happening? you know like mario or will someone just admit that was a once off petty, butthurt move cos they were pissed he left

Much like dropping killer food on the floor, the "10 second rule" applies. Only in this case it's a 24 hour rule. ;)

Doppelganger
03-21-2012, 07:14 PM
And just because you have your right to an opinion doesn't mean I have the right to call that opinion or attitude ****ty.

I think your attitude of players being "nothing more" is ****ty.

I'll root for the Texans long after DeMeco or anyone goes. Hell, my existence as a Texans fan got cemented because of David Carr and we all know the situation with that and I'm still here. I'm not saying I'm only a player fan or anything, but I think that the sentiment you hold is totally cold, and that it's a good thing you're not an owner or a GM because nobody would want to play for you.

I mean, I don't get it. You don't yell out during games or say "Thattaboy, Cush!" or "There you go, Dre!". Nothing? You just sit there and clap/yell only after we're done with the game? How....hm....frigid.

Maybe I am not conveying it to you as well as I have it in my mind.

1. Yes, you have every right to call my attitude ****ty. But, that is just an opinion, it does not make it a fact.

2. I own 1 Texans jersey. It is a white 02. The name on the back is TEXANS. I do not own a jersey with a team name. I have an Astros jersey with no name or number as well.

3. At the end of the day, Demeco did his job and did nothing more. He was handsomely rewarded for it. I thank him for his service but he is playing for another team now. He is not a Texan. The Texans are my team, not the Eagles.

4. I would actually make a fantastic GM. A GM has to be a person who looks at the big picture and sees what's best for the team. A good GM has to know the value of players and not get swayed by emotional attachment. It's tough when you have working relationships with them, but its the way of business. In a salary cap era, you simply cannot keep everyone you want. You refer to my attitude as Cold, but I think its Texans-centric. I want what's best for the team above the player. That's the way dynasties are built. That's the Steeler way. I don't like them, but I admire their success.

5. When I watch the game, I cheer good plays. But I also recognize that most good plays are a team effort rather than individual. When Dre makes a great catch its becuase the QB put the ball in a place for him, the OL protected the QB, the RB picked up a key block, AND Dre made a good move to get by the defender and made a good catch. So, when that happens, I cheer the team for making a play together. Football is a team sport, unlike basketball which is fairly individualistic.

Anyway, this is probably a place we should agree to disagree!

Rey
03-21-2012, 07:21 PM
The majority of this board is the exact opposite of what I say.


And given what I know about groupthink, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Yeah, that is probably a good thing most times.

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 07:26 PM
4. I would actually make a fantastic GM. A GM has to be a person who looks at the big picture and sees what's best for the team. A good GM has to know the value of players and not get swayed by emotional attachment. It's tough when you have working relationships with them, but its the way of business. In a salary cap era, you simply cannot keep everyone you want. You refer to my attitude as Cold, but I think its Texans-centric. I want what's best for the team above the player. That's the way dynasties are built. That's the Steeler way. I don't like them, but I admire their success.

Anyway, this is probably a place we should agree to disagree!

There's nothing wrong with doing that. That's the way I would want to operate too. However, your previous words gave the feeling that they're no more than disposable heroes to you and that they don't matter no matter what.

I understand and agree with never putting one player above the team. But you present your view on players as if you're cold, stoic, unfeeling, etc.

But yeah, enough about this.

ThaShark316
03-21-2012, 07:41 PM
Hell they could trade him right now for a 3rd rounder and 2 6th rounders and you of all people would act like the Texans management is genius for it as usual.

Doubtful. That's a reach for a comment and you know it, sir.

My whole beef with everything that's gone down, is that people are going 100% nuts, knowing full well that this day was coming within the next 12 months. Trade or otherwise.

Ryan
03-21-2012, 08:37 PM
Any LBers available in FA on the cheaper side that would be a fit here?

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 08:55 PM
Why is this thread jacked up? Doesn't allow me to click on the last page (#33)

Kaiser Toro
03-21-2012, 09:03 PM
so why's this thread still here in the bullpen?

thought the mods had a new policy that a thread involving any ex-player gets moved within 3 hrs of the transaction happening? you know like mario or will someone just admit that was a once off petty, butthurt move cos they were pissed he left

I can't speak to the policy or your hurt butt, due to the policy, but I can see the difference in the threads. Mario was a free agent and we got nothing in return, while Demeco was traded and there was a return.

CloakNNNdagger
03-21-2012, 09:14 PM
Why is this thread jacked up? Doesn't allow me to click on the last page (#33)

That's been happening to me for the last 2 days.

Honoring Earl 34
03-21-2012, 09:27 PM
That's a pretty ****ty attitude. Why do they bother playing for you and your enjoyment? Why even care about what anybody on the team does while they're here if you're just going to toss them aside after they're done? If a player retires, they too are no longer Texans. Do we stop caring about them too?

What good is a team's success if you can't feel happy for and love the players that brought a team success?

DeMeco did nothing to deserve that type of attitude. If he was a piece of **** here or on his way out, I could understand that sentiment. Holy crap.Lame.


Leave Demeco alone ... he did nothing to you ... I love him .... he's a hot player with a nice ... but wait ... he's my captain . :wadepalm:

redwhiteblue
03-21-2012, 09:33 PM
The craziest thing about this thread is all the people that are upset because they think they can't wear Demeco's jersey now. I've never understood this. Don't people buy throwback jerseys all the time? Isn't that what Mitchell & Ness is founded on? I still wear old Texans jerseys all the time. I was a fan of them while they were here and proud of what they accomplished with the Texans.

Speedy
03-21-2012, 10:14 PM
That's a pretty ****ty attitude. Why do they bother playing for you and your enjoyment? Why even care about what anybody on the team does while they're here if you're just going to toss them aside after they're done? If a player retires, they too are no longer Texans. Do we stop caring about them too?

What good is a team's success if you can't feel happy for and love the players that brought a team success?

DeMeco did nothing to deserve that type of attitude. If he was a piece of **** here or on his way out, I could understand that sentiment. Holy crap.

Lame.

It ain't a ****ty attitude. Good grief people!! Is this Texans Talk or DeMeco Ryans Talk? These players are not going to last forever. They come and go. At the end of April there will be a handful of young men that will put on a TEXANS jersey and we'll cheer on until they no longer put that jersey on. No player is above the team. Including AJ, and there will even be a day when AJ no longer puts that Texans jersey on. What are people going to do then? 10 years ago there were a bunch of players that put on those Texans jerseys that we all cheered for. Not one of them wears it any more and we're all still here.

I don't have a problem at all letting players go if it means the TEAM gets better and wins games. But so far, that's the problem. Who are they replacing these players with? Last year's backups? And who's replacing the backups? That's what sucks about all of this to me. Are the Texans better today than they were on March 10th? IMO so far, the answer is no. But they've still got 5½ months to go before the bell rings, so we'll see what it looks like then.

Another thing to consider....how often does a team hit it big on almost every pick in a draft like the Texans did in '06? If Spencer doesn't get hurt, 5 of the 7 they drafted that year would have been multi-Pro Bowlers. While it's awesome to hit it like that on so many players, that is a rarity and you know that had to bite you down the road somewhere when it came to contracts and salary caps. And if you get too invested in the individual players, it isn't going to be much fun for you when they get cut, traded or you lose to FA, because most of them ARE going to be cut, traded or lost in FA. That's just the sad reality of the business.

I'm a fan of the HOUSTON TEXANS. I cheer for the guys who wear that jersey until they no longer wear it, becasue I know it won't be very long that they will wear it. Hell, even Peyton Manning isn't a Colt any more. The players come and go. The team stays...(usually).

So quit telling people what kind of attitude to have and go cry in your beer or something.

leebigeztx
03-21-2012, 10:25 PM
I think when the texans were trying to build the talent base,they overpaid some of the good players like demeco and overlooked their shortcomings. Now that they have a solid talent base,they can start purging guys and getting roster/salary balance like philly. We were talking weeks ago that this would be ryans last yr in houston. Not because he's a bad player,but moreso because he's very limited in pass coverage and the salary he makes. 2 down lbs are cheaper just like 2 down backs. The backs who don't come off the field earn a lot more just like the lbs who don't come off the field. 6m for 58% of the snaps doesn't match up. That's also the ratio of 3wr packages in the nfl. The texans did him a huge solid because we see 2 down lb's like henderson and lofton just sitting out there without a contract.

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 10:59 PM
I don't have a problem at all letting players go if it means the TEAM gets better and wins games. But so far, that's the problem. Who are they replacing these players with? Last year's backups? And who's replacing the backups? That's what sucks about all of this to me. Are the Texans better today than they were on March 10th? IMO so far, the answer is no. But they've still got 5½ months to go before the bell rings, so we'll see what it looks like then.

Gee, and if one would take a look at the bigger picture of things, they'd realize that that's what people are most worried about. How do you replace a guy like DeMeco, both on the field in his limited-thus-far role in Phillips' D AND, more importantly, in the locker room and such? We'll find out in the coming months. It better be pretty damn nice. Not to mention the other boys we lost. Losing Mario, Winston, Brisiel didn't and won't mean nearly as much as losing Ryans, I'll tell you that much. If all goes well, hopefully even losing Ryans won't mean that much.

Nobody cares about DeMeco's jersey. I don't even own any Texans players jerseys. Not sure what jerseys have to do with it or why people keep bringing them up. But the whole "oh, they're no longer on the team anymore, so what do I care about them?" is BS. Sorry. Absolute BS.

ObsiWan
03-21-2012, 11:07 PM
I get the feeling more people are upset about having to retire another jersey in their closet than actually losing the player himself. :stirpot:

While I know you're just messin' wiff people...

lest someone else get it twisted. it's because of the man who wears (or wore) the jersey that I spent my cash on it.

Shaft75
03-21-2012, 11:51 PM
Some old school members in here know my luck with jerseys. I wouldn't know how to dig up that old thread.

And yes, I had a DeMeco & Mario. But I guess they're headed to Harris County CPS(my mother works there and that's where all of our old duds go) along with my Carr, Sharper, Glenn, & DRob jerseys. I never got a Schaub, just don't want to jinx it.

But I do have 2 Dre's, 2 Cushings, 1 Foster and 2 Watts. Would've had a Yates this year if they would have sold em.

So to whoever's bitching about the jerseys, just make sure your next buy is well though out for a player the franchise can't let go of. Foster, Dre, Watt or Cushing would be perfect. Or hell, Joseph should be around quite awhile, buy Joseph.

ObsiWan
03-21-2012, 11:54 PM
Some old school members in here know my luck with jerseys. I wouldn't know how to dig up that old thread.

And yes, I had a DeMeco & Mario. But I guess they're headed to Harris County CPS(my mother works there and that's where all of our old duds go) along with my Carr, Sharper, Glenn, & DRob jerseys. I never got a Schaub, just don't want to jinx it.

But I do have 2 Dre's, 2 Cushings, 1 Foster and 2 Watts. Would've had a Yates this year if they would have sold em.

So to whoever's bitching about the jerseys, just make sure your next buy is well though out for a player the franchise can't let go of. Foster, Dre, Watt or Cushing would be perfect. Or hell, Joseph should be around quite awhile, buy Joseph.

They did sell 'em. I saw 'em at Academy towards the end of the season and during the playoffs.

At least down here in SE Houston....

Edit: and I still wear my Sharper jersey.

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 11:54 PM
That's weird. I always keep my jerseys of players whether they get traded or not. Would be a pretty expensive hobby to maintain only current players, lol.

I wear my Leandro Barbosa jersey once a week it seems, and he hasnt been on the Suns for a couple years now.

I get the notion of donating it though---that's pretty cool.

Ryan
03-22-2012, 12:33 AM
So to whoever's bitching about the jerseys, just make sure your next buy is well though out for a player the franchise can't let go of. Foster, Dre, Watt or Cushing would be perfect. Or hell, Joseph should be around quite awhile, buy Joseph.


Who until his injury didn't think Demeco would be a Texan for life?

Maddict5
03-22-2012, 05:38 AM
I can't speak to the policy or your hurt butt, due to the policy, but I can see the difference in the threads. Mario was a free agent and we got nothing in return, while Demeco was traded and there was a return.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft#Compensatory_picks

i can do semantics too.

fwiw i dont care where a thread is- i just thought going to the bother of moving it immediately as he signed with the bills was lame.... seemed a little too much like a jilted mod doing the e-version of cutting his face out of photos you know?

otisbean
03-22-2012, 06:08 AM
I think when the texans were trying to build the talent base,they overpaid some of the good players like demeco and overlooked their shortcomings. Now that they have a solid talent base,they can start purging guys and getting roster/salary balance like philly. We were talking weeks ago that this would be ryans last yr in houston. Not because he's a bad player,but moreso because he's very limited in pass coverage and the salary he makes. 2 down lbs are cheaper just like 2 down backs. The backs who don't come off the field earn a lot more just like the lbs who don't come off the field. 6m for 58% of the snaps doesn't match up. That's also the ratio of 3wr packages in the nfl. The texans did him a huge solid because we see 2 down lb's like henderson and lofton just sitting out there without a contract.

Great post! Additionally, he's being paid like a premiere 4-3 MLB vs a WILB in a 3-4. I love Ryans and wish him well. Im bummed we had to let him go, but I completely understand the move. My only hope is that we find a solid replacement for him.

False Start
03-22-2012, 08:28 AM
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/mecoeagle.png

:(

GP
03-22-2012, 09:22 AM
Who until his injury didn't think Demeco would be a Texan for life?

Me.

Linebacker is not that sexy of a position. Your "star" players are going to be: QB, RB, WR, and DE. I'm not saying there haven't been AWESOME LBs or S or CB or TE, etc....I'm just saying that when you think of marquee positions and guys who retire and leave a "legacy" with the team, it tends to not be a LB.

LBs, and G, and T, and C, are all perceived to be utilitarian blue-collar guys you never really see (though their impact is HUGE). The other positions I listed, those guys get the sacks and they catch or run with the ball, or throw the ball. They have a higher exposure to popularity since they are making the plays more regularly.

I expect Brian Cushing will be dealt in the next few years, too. I just don't think people need to place their eggs in the my-guy-won't-ever-leave-here basket. I think Andre Johnson will be the only Texans player to stay here from start to finish and retire a Texan without playing anywhere else. But yet he could decide he's not finished and then go play for the worst team in the NFL if it comes down to that.

We had around 5 or 6 good years with DeMeco Ryans, then we earned some trade value back for him. I hate to compare this to cars, but when you go to trade your 6-year-old car in for a new one...you're not going to get full value on it. Not even if it's in mint condition. It has miles on it, it's an older body style and etc., etc. We should expect that we can't get a 1st or 2nd rounder for him. That's not a slap in his face, nor in ours, it's just the way it goes for every player who ages, has injuries, etc.

Rey
03-22-2012, 09:32 AM
Who until his injury didn't think Demeco would be a Texan for life?

For Life?

There have been much better players that meant more to their teams and their cities that have finished their careers with other teams.

I don't really have any kind of expectations in that regard...

Kaiser Toro
03-22-2012, 09:50 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft#Compensatory_picks

i can do semantics too.

fwiw i dont care where a thread is- i just thought going to the bother of moving it immediately as he signed with the bills was lame.... seemed a little too much like a jilted mod doing the e-version of cutting his face out of photos you know?

We are not guaranteed a compensatory pick. However, I commend you on the effort.

Maddict5
03-22-2012, 11:29 AM
We are not guaranteed a compensatory pick. However, I commend you on the effort.

:yawn: like i said semantics. an ex player is an ex player.

so you're gonna bring it back to the bullpen when that comp pick is announced so is it? :rolleyes:

again im annoyed at myself for keeping this going cos i really dont care about this stupid trivial stuff but just have to call you on your weak reasoning

Runner
03-22-2012, 11:34 AM
:yawn: like i said semantics. an ex player is an ex player.

so you're gonna bring it back to the bullpen when that comp pick is announced so is it? :rolleyes:

again im annoyed at myself for keeping this going cos i really dont care about this stupid trivial stuff but just have to call you on your weak reasoning

You hide your "not caring" very well.

infantrycak
03-22-2012, 11:38 AM
Walrus boy was on 610 am this morning with his newest favorite assertion that DeMeco was a "one down LB" here. That's bull. DeMeco was on the field for 57% of plays last year. 1st downs of all sorts combined only accounted for 36% of plays.

BigBull17
03-22-2012, 11:50 AM
I like Demeco, but I actually agree with the trade. We overpaid for him when his contract was coming to an end, added with the injury lead to him being less than his former self. I'm glad he wasn't a cap casualty and we got some value for him. Just was no longer a fit.

Double Barrel
03-22-2012, 11:52 AM
The craziest thing about this thread is all the people that are upset because they think they can't wear Demeco's jersey now. I've never understood this. Don't people buy throwback jerseys all the time? Isn't that what Mitchell & Ness is founded on? I still wear old Texans jerseys all the time. I was a fan of them while they were here and proud of what they accomplished with the Texans.

I bought a battle red Davis jersey from HT.com for less than $10. I still wear it. I could care less if the player is no longer with the team or even in the league. It's my damn jersey and I'll wear it when I want to. I don't understand not wearing old jerseys, either...unless it's a Carr one, of course. That's more embarrassing than anything in my mind.

Most of the time I wear my own custom jersey, though, mainly because I paid way too much money for in (a moment of weakness, I guess). I plan to wear that one to the grave. Seriously, I've told my wife to bury me in it. Suits suck, so might as well be comfortable and representing the team in the afterlife!

NitroGSXR
03-22-2012, 12:02 PM
Maybe in a couple years, he'll sign back with us and they retire him as a Texan. I think I would be ok with that... depends on if Philly or he ever had a chance to dash our hopes of course!

:)

I am going to miss his First and Ten football camps. DeMeco and Dunta really shined. Only Andre left and he... just doesn't have the same personality or sparkle that Dunta or DeMeco brought to the kids.

Vinny
03-22-2012, 03:55 PM
should the Oiler fans throw away their Earl Campbell jerseys just because he became a Saint late in his career?

eh, I didn't think so.

Big Lou
03-22-2012, 04:12 PM
I get the feeling more people are upset about having to retire another jersey in their closet than actually losing the player himself. :stirpot:

I'm very upset at the prospect of losing Meco. The jersey is a side issue, although jerseys are freaking expensive when you have two kids and mortgage, so it does affect me personally a little.

Although I'm sad to see Meco go, its better it get traded to a team that can use him than to just get cut by the Texans next season. I think everyone knows what Meco meant as a leader, but its a competative bussiness and in the new D System he doesn't have the value he once had when he got that contract. he deserved it for out playing his first contract and bieng a good example of how to handle those kinds of situations. I will miss Demeco, and I will miss wearing my jersey!!!! I might pull the jersey after he retires, but until then he's a Eagle so he is the enemy. I wish him the best of luck and will miss him.

Dutchrudder
03-22-2012, 04:13 PM
Don't worry people, we will do TTalk cheap jersey orders again in the future. Sometime after the draft or so there will be many people chomping at the bit for Texans jerseys.

Double Barrel
03-23-2012, 11:00 AM
Don't worry people, we will do TTalk cheap jersey orders again in the future. Sometime after the draft or so there will be many people chomping at the bit for Texans jerseys.

Awesome! Count me in. I might even go for the #34 Earl jersey that Vinny mentioned above.

Vinny
03-23-2012, 01:20 PM
Awesome! Count me in. I might even go for the #34 Earl jersey that Vinny mentioned above.That may be the best throwback ever. Every time I see a guy or gal wearing one it makes me feel good about being there watching him play live and in person. Superstar is such an overused term but that's what Earl was to me.

Honoring Earl 34
03-23-2012, 01:26 PM
That may be the best throwback ever. Every time I see a guy or gal wearing one it makes me feel good about being there watching him play live and in person. Superstar is such an overused term but that's what Earl was to me.

#2 son got a free football card at the NFL experience that had a snippet of Earl and Priest Holmes game jersey in the card . I hope he still has it and not traded it for a candy bar .

HOU-TEX
03-23-2012, 02:17 PM
That may be the best throwback ever. Every time I see a guy or gal wearing one it makes me feel good about being there watching him play live and in person. Superstar is such an overused term but that's what Earl was to me.

I was a youngin, but he was to me to. And after having the opportunity to meet him a few times while the wife was working for Tri-Star, he remains my favorite of all time. He's the nicest, most down to Earth 'star' I've ever watched or met for that matter.

On the other end of the spectrum.....Randy Johnson's the worst. He was a dick on and off the field. Treated the wife like crap too

Double Barrel
03-23-2012, 05:10 PM
That may be the best throwback ever. Every time I see a guy or gal wearing one it makes me feel good about being there watching him play live and in person. Superstar is such an overused term but that's what Earl was to me.

yep, me, too. He was a hero to me as a kid, larger than life, and might as well been on the same pages as Batman and Spiderman in my eyes.

This is what people do not understand who rag on Houston football fans for hard feelings toward Bud. He didn't just treat the city of Houston and it's citizens with disrespect. He treated our heroes wrong. People can say "it's just business", but who the heck fires a head coach after three years of playoff football, two of those going to the AFC championship game? Bud Adams, that's who.

Honoring Earl 34
03-23-2012, 05:32 PM
That may be the best throwback ever. Every time I see a guy or gal wearing one it makes me feel good about being there watching him play live and in person. Superstar is such an overused term but that's what Earl was to me.

yep, me, too. He was a hero to me as a kid, larger than life, and might as well been on the same pages as Batman and Spiderman in my eyes.

This is what people do not understand who rag on Houston football fans for hard feelings toward Bud. He didn't just treat the city of Houston and it's citizens with disrespect. He treated our heroes wrong. People can say "it's just business", but who the heck fires a head coach after three years of playoff football, two of those going to the AFC championship game? Bud Adams, that's who.

Every rodeo season I remember Earl handing out Skoal Bandits at a Skoal booth in the Astro arena . I was about 17 and he'd dance around to Willie songs and talk with folks .

Kaiser Toro
03-23-2012, 09:26 PM
Every rodeo season I remember Earl handing out Skoal Bandits at a Skoal booth in the Astro arena . I was about 17 and he'd dance around to Willie songs and talk with folks .

Earl is soft. He can't handle the pouch I have between my cheek and gum right now. :)

badboy
03-23-2012, 09:39 PM
That doesn't make sense. Cushing was playing the Sam and DeMeco the Mike. Why would they even consider moving Ryans over? When Cushing tried to replace Ryans after the achilles injury, it was a disaster. Clearly, Brian is more comfortable in Wade's 3-4 than in the middle of Frank Bush's 4-3.

Was Ryans in danger of losing his starting spot? That's what we really don't know. You couldn't have a player of Ryans' stature on the bench, much less carry that kind of salary. If Wade was considering replacing DeMeco, he had to go. That's what we'll really never know for sure.

This is what I am hoping because imo Ryans played well considering injuries & if Wade thinks he has a better replacement, ILB will produce even better play.

Honoring Earl 34
03-23-2012, 09:45 PM
Earl is soft. He can't handle the pouch I have between my cheek and gum right now. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5514hBeIGCs

Lucky
03-23-2012, 11:21 PM
should the Oiler fans throw away their Earl Campbell jerseys just because he became a Saint late in his career?

eh, I didn't think so.

I'm going to keep mine.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yfcA8HM9mZ4/T21LMOjPH3I/AAAAAAAAABU/49vX9YywA_c/h301/IMG00124-20111101-1804.jpg

Rey
03-24-2012, 07:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5514hBeIGCs

Man times have changed.

ObsiWan
03-24-2012, 09:32 AM
I'm going to keep mine.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yfcA8HM9mZ4/T21LMOjPH3I/AAAAAAAAABU/49vX9YywA_c/h301/IMG00124-20111101-1804.jpg

Suh-weeet!!

I've been wearing mine. But it isn't autographed.

Wolf
03-25-2012, 10:53 AM
Eagles confident Ryans well on road to full strength

"I was slow," Ryans said Wednesday. "It slowed me down there at the beginning of the year. But as the season went on, it continued to get better. Toward the end of the season, I was moving around feeling like myself again."

Dr. Brian Sennett, the chief of sports medicine for the University of Pennsylvania Health Systems, helped author a 2009 study on Achilles' tendon injuries in the NFL. The study concluded that "players generally took 9 to 12 months to return to play, and 32.3 percent of players never returned to play."

Sennett said in an interview Wednesday that 9 months is generally a good starting point, citing the timeline that Phillies slugger Ryan Howard is currently dealing with. The new Eagle linebacker's injury occurred in October 2010. He returned to training camp last August and played all 16 games, but it was clear he was not the same player.

In a Week 2 win over Miami, Ryans was credited with only one tackle for the first time in his career, whether it was as a three-star recruit at Lanier High School in Bessemer, Ala., the SEC defensive player of the year at Alabama or the defensive rookie of the year in the NFL.

Roseman said the front office spent significant time studying Achilles' injuries, recovery times and how performance is affected. The results entering a minicamp that will be 18 months since the injury are encouraging.

"You're always better the second year back," Roseman said. "You kind of get back to where you were the year before. We watched him on tape, and we saw throughout the year, he got better and better."
http://articles.philly.com/2012-03-21/news/31220607_1_howie-roseman-training-camp-eagles-general-manager

Wolf
03-25-2012, 11:02 AM
Before any run at a title though, Ryan did admit — like many others — he was a bit taken back by the deal ... as well as the timing. The 27-year-old linebacker and team captain, after all, left Houston as the Texans’ all-time leader with 637 tackles. He also contributed eight sacks, six forced fumbles, eight fumble recoveries and two interceptions in his six-year career. He earned Pro Bowl honors following the 2007 and 2009 campaigns and was an Associated Press All-Pro selection in 2007.

“It was a little surprising when I first heard of the move, but at the same time, it was good because I knew I was coming to a good team,” he said. “I was excited about that because I know how good this team was in previous years and last year. I’ve gone down the road there and I knew I was coming to a good team.

“It was a perfect fit for me.”
“I can sense that everyone has been looking for that middle linebacker, and I’m happy to be the guy that they chose to step in and be the middle linebacker of this defense,” he said. “Like I said, it’s a perfect fit for me, and it’s what I like to do. I’m just eager to get started.”

He’s not alone.

“You’re talking about a really physical, instinctive linebacker. He’s in control,” Eagles general manager Howie Roseman said. “We always watch the middle linebacker in the biggest games toward the end of the season. We had the opportunity to watch him in a 4-3 defense a few years back, and saw him play against the NFC East.

“We felt very confident and comfortable making this trade.”

The Texans ranked second in total defense last season (285.7 yards per game), finished 10-6 and earned their first division title and playoff berth.

“It was great,” Ryans said of the postseason. “Houston was a place where we were building toward a playoff run. It took us a while to get there, but once we had the core guys in place, we did what winning teams do. We practiced the way winning teams practice, and we went out about our ways the way winning teams do.

“You saw that come to light with us making the playoffs, and us making a run on it.”

Now, if he can only do that in Philadelphia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/new-eagles-linebacker-demeco-ryans-addresses-his-new-city-seems-ready-to-roll/2012/03/21/gIQAIcYcSS_story.html

DocBar
03-25-2012, 11:54 PM
Don't know if this was already posted. (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/21/demeco-ryans-everyones-a-winner/)

When it was announced that the Houston Texans had traded DeMeco Ryans for a fourth round pick to the Philadelphia Eagles, some were shocked, some were even angered.

Me? I was impressed.

Impressed that the Texans were able to turn a cap hit into a draft pick. Impressed that the Eagles were able to acquire a middle linebacker that they needed without paying inflated free agent prices. Impressed that Ryans would now have a role able to fully utilze his skill-set.

Yes, to me, this was one of those rare trades where everyone wins.



Understanding DeMeco Ryans

When the Houston Texans selected DeMeco Ryans with the 33rd overall pick of the 2006 draft, they figured they’d found their MLB of the future. Someone that would play the spot for the next 10 years as they found a way to slow down Peyton Manning and that prolific Indianapolis Colts offense. He not only turned into the leader of the defense but became one of the better linebackers in the league. But let’s not rewrite history; Ryans was a good but not great player for Houston, and ultimately became replaceable.

He was never the surest of tacklers, missing one in every 10 attempted this year (30th out of 36 qualifying players) and, while not pushed around by linemen or blown up by fullbacks like, say, a Jonathan Vilma, neither was he a Patrick Willis type; excelling in getting off blocks to make plays. In coverage he had his moments, but he was not a linebacker that could match up with backs or tight ends and consistently win.

None of this is to say Ryans was or is a bad player, but when Brian Cushing joined he quickly became the second best linebacker on the team. When Wade Phillips came in and moved to a 3-4 defensive front, the writing was, to some degree, on the wall.



Understanding why the Texans don’t need him

At first it looked as if Cushing may be the odd man out. In Week 1 Ryans seemed the preferred option in the Texans dime defense (Houston almost exclusively use a 4-1-6 in passing situations), with Cushing only replacing him in that package during garbage time. It didn’t last and in Week 2 Cushing was the sole linebacker with his hand off the ground with Ryans taking a seat on the sideline. While Houston would use a nickel package including him on occasion, Ryans usually found himself on the outside looking in with the dime as their primary sub package. It left the former second round pick on the field for just 58.4% of all Texan defensive snaps, and when you have a $5.9m salary, that doesn’t make much sense.

It’s not the sole reason why the Texans are happy to move on. The likely replacement, 2010 4th round pick Daryl Sharpton, is a player the team is keen on giving more snaps after he managed just 55 plays in all of 2011. He’s shown some promise as an early down run defender; even if you are a bit concerned teams may go after him in the passing game the drop off in his key role may not be too precipitous. It is something of a risk replacing Ryans with him, but at the respective costs of the two players for what the Texans want from them, it makes sense.



Understanding why the Eagles needed him

As much as Ryans may have been considered leftovers in Houston, moving to Philadelphia makes him more of a main course. Desperate for an every down linebacker and not prepared to hand out long term deals to free agents Stephen Tulloch or Curtis Lofton, Ryans provides an immediate upgrade at the position. It may be a long time before Eagles fans forget about the horrors of starting Casey Matthews (-10.6) or Jamar Chaney (-10.1) at the MLB spot, but the solid play of the former Texan will go a long way to making it a distant memory. You wouldn’t confuse him with Tulloch when it comes to getting off blocks, but he’s not going to be blown away by the same linemen who previously get to the second level with ease in Philadelphia’s wide-nine scheme. That’s imperative for the Eagles defense to avoid being bullied as it too often was last year.



Understanding that no team lost

DeMeco Ryans is one of a number of NFL players whose reputation precedes his level of play. Synonymous with an underachieving defense, it should be noted that the unit got better the less time he spent on the field. He is a solid player, not a dominant one and to insinuate the Texans got robbed is simply wrong. The way they would have been fleeced is by paying Ryans $5.9m for playing less than 60% of their defensive snaps. They may well lose a little by putting Daryl Sharpton in his place, and it’s true that you can’t quantify how hard it will be losing the leader of their defense. However, given the push they are able to get up front, the improvement of the secondary and the improved play from the linebackers that will be returning, this loss is something that they can overcome.

The extra cap flexibility it gives them now and in the long run is as significant as the draft pick they received for Ryans. It was a move that was somewhat inevitable in hindsight, and an essential one given that football is a business about winning and not sentimentality. That the Eagles happened to get their much needed linebacker, and that DeMeco Ryans will get the three down role his all round game deserves, just makes this deal all the sweeter.

SheTexan
03-26-2012, 07:24 AM
don't know if this was already posted. (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/21/demeco-ryans-everyones-a-winner/)

bs!!

DocBar
03-26-2012, 06:38 PM
bs!!Still upset with this, I see.

Double Barrel
03-27-2012, 11:02 AM
“It was a perfect fit for me.”

If DeMeco is cool with it, then all I can say is thanks for 6 years of playing hard and good luck kicking Cowboys butt twice a year.