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bckey
03-20-2012, 08:33 PM
I love how the believability of McClain's reporting is dependant on the situation.

This board rarely believes the fat actor, except for when the news re-enforces the majority opinion.

I don't like the trade a face value regardless if there is a cap hit or not.

Vinny
03-20-2012, 08:33 PM
Smith is not that guy. He's never been that guy. This is McNair's "leadership by committee" blueprint. It's worked one year out of 10.too many cooks in the soup.

ckhouston
03-20-2012, 08:33 PM
Lolololol @ the bold.

I hope the bold is true Matt is dead weight.

GP
03-20-2012, 08:33 PM
Ryans , Winston , and Mario finally made the playoffs on a team lead by Watt , Cushing , Foster , Joseph , Brown , Barwin , AJ , and Manning . Today the Texans aren't better but next month they may be .

Yep. Harsh, but true.

Kimmy
03-20-2012, 08:34 PM
Right. McClain hasn't gotten much right this offseason. Ryans could be designated a June 1st cut, and the cap hit could be spread over 2 years. It's the type of accounting stuff that the media isn't always on top of.

Remember all those years in dead cap money? I thought we'd moved on from that :(

pirbroke
03-20-2012, 08:34 PM
6.75 mil hit, so what was Ryans pay this year? less, more, or same?

Fili
03-20-2012, 08:35 PM
We have a solid linebacking core (including backups) but the chemistry just makes DeMeco 100x more reliable...

Vinny
03-20-2012, 08:35 PM
Yep. Harsh, but true.
not when you consider a football team has 22 starters. Its not like baseball or basketball where you can win big with a couple of stars and a supporting cast.

fiasco west
03-20-2012, 08:36 PM
Texans have to re-sign Schaub, Cushing, Duane Brown, Barwin, and Glover Quin next year. You have to get under the cap somehow. Can't just keep cutting scrubs to do so either. If we kept DeMeco then we probably don't have the money to keep all our key free agents next year.

They are doing something wrong then because the Eagles of all teams just picked up Demeco Ryans and his contract.

The Eagles...the team that went nuts in FA last year and paid Vick big money and just extended Desean Jackson just added Demeco to their payroll.

TexanSam
03-20-2012, 08:37 PM
Some of those guys won't be back with the Texans. I'm looking at Schaub primarily as being a cap casualty next year. Kubiak will try his best to get T.J. ready to be the starter in 2013.

I think that depends on how Schaub plays this season.

Fili
03-20-2012, 08:37 PM
From nfl.com
We've seen this trade described as a win-win by a few sources. Make no mistake: The Eagles won more.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827bd972/article/eagles-steal-demeco-ryans-in-surprising-trade?module=HP11_content_stream

ckhouston
03-20-2012, 08:37 PM
Smith is not that guy. He's never been that guy. This is McNair's "leadership by committee" blueprint. It's worked one year out of 10.

Then why is he being paid? I disagree, it is Smith for good or bad. He was hired because of a reason I dont need to go into but now he has to be held accountable and I think trading Rynas was a good decision. Not going after Manning was a horrible decision.

fiasco west
03-20-2012, 08:39 PM
Difference between Morey and Smith is that Morey has been dealt a tough hand. With Yao and T-Mac done we were put in a really bad situation that we're going to come out of next year. Morey is doing the best he can with what he has. Not saying he's perfect, but I doubt there are many other GMs who could've done a better job than him. Plus, with super stars congregating it's hard to get one of those guys. As for Smith, I'm not going to complain too much about the Mario, Winston, and Brisiel loses because I think we have players who can replace them. My worry is that there is no one on the team right now imo who can replace Ryans. Sharpton is coming off major injury and expecting him to come in right away and replace that hole at ILB is bit unrealistic imo. It might take him up to a year to fully recover. Don't get me wrong, I hope Sharpton comes in and tears it up because above all I want my Texans to win. But it's not a realistic goal if you're going to play mid round rookies in critical position and hope to make a deep playoff run. It could happen, but imo it's not very likely. Of course, between now and game 1 we will probably sign some vets, so that remains to be seen.

Agree with the Morey part, just all this talk of 'Value' and saving money reminded me of a move Morey would make.

With that said I agree completely with the bolded.

It's like I said earlier. You don't see the Ravens trading or cutting Ray Lewis despite it is obvious that he's just an above average LB now, they know his veteran presence simply can't be replaced.

JCTexan
03-20-2012, 08:41 PM
A few tweets from Texans players:

I wouldn't be half the player or person I am today without @DRyans59 this one hurts. Philly got a unbelievable player and leader today. #59

One of the best people I have ever had the opportunity to play with...@dryans59 you will be missed. I owe you a lot! Thanks

Hate it that my dawg @DRyans59 is gone. Helluva player but also a true captain that led by example

Honored to have had the chance to play with and learn from @DRyans59.. True leader and great person... Preciate you bro..

Really tough to see @DRyans59 go. True leader on & off the field. Gr8 player & person who represented Htown to the upmost. #Texans


DeMeco is the epitome of a team captain. A true leader, who'll most definitely be missed. Wishing him nothing but the best. We got this...

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 08:41 PM
Then why is he being paid? I disagree, it is Smith for good or bad. He was hired because of a reason I dont need to go into but now he has to be held accountable and I think trading Rynas was a good decision. Not going after Manning was a horrible decision.

Umm ... he got 95 million over 5 years . Their dumping salary as we speak so i'm thinking it couldn't have happened .

welsh texan
03-20-2012, 08:41 PM
Good move. Hurts me to say it, but Rick Smith just freed up enough cash to keep either Duane Brown or Connor Barwin plus change next year. Multiple picks in return isn't to be sniffed at given the number of positions we're thin at.

People giving it the whole facepalm stuff are over-reacting to this. Ryans was great pre-injury and above average with a + for heart post-injury.

He was also getting paid like an elite 43 MLB.

No matter what round the picks are in, its important that we reload our depth this offseason and have some guys ready to play in 12 months time, and I doubt there will be any 100-page threads that rage for the next year about how we should let Brown walk next March. Get real about certain guys' value people, this is a sensible move by the FO, and even if Ryans does great in Philly, which I hope he does, they won't be proven wrong on this one.

What Ryans is capable of, what his role in Wade's D is, and what we were set to pay him are 3 very different things, and you know what? I'd put his role in Wade's D at the bottom of that list, and what we were paying him at the top, his real value is somewhere in between.

DocBar
03-20-2012, 08:42 PM
too many cooks in the soup.Why would you put a cook in the soup?:spy:

pirbroke
03-20-2012, 08:42 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/17928216/report-texans-trade-lb-demeco-ryans-to-eagles-for-draft-picks


Ryans should immediately help Philadelphia. (US Presswire)

After suffering a ruptured Achilles in 2010 that forced him to miss more than half the season, inside linebacker DeMeco Ryans started all 16 games for the Texans last year. But with a core of young players performing impressively (J.J. Watt, Connor Barwin, and Brian Cushing) and with Ryan's impact blunted a bit by Wade Phillips' 3-4 scheme, Ryans obviously wasn't in the franchise's long-term plans.

After the Texans reportedly asked him earlier this month to take a paycut from his $5.9 million base salary, Houston traded the two-time Pro Bowler to the Eagles on Tuesday night for a fourth-round draft choice. The teams also have swapped third-round picks in the 2012 draft, meaning the Eagles now have the 89th selection overall, while the Texans took the Eagles' 77th overall pick

Ryans will certainly upgrade a Philadelphia linebacker corps that, for most of last season, was simply terrible.

It was thought the Eagles might go after Stephen Tulloch in free agency, but he re-signed with the Lions on a five-year contract on Tuesday to close off that option.

Ryans -- who signed a six-year, $48 million contract before the 2010 season that guaranteed more than $21 million -- didn't play well early in the season for Houston, but he started making an impact late and finished with 64 tackles.

“DeMeco is a proven Pro Bowl linebacker in this league and we're excited to be able to plug him into the middle of our defense,” said Eagles head coach Andy Reid said in a statement. “He's been the signal caller and a leader on a very good Texans defense for the last several years. He's a tough, instinctive football player and he'll be a great fit for our team.”

Said Eagles general manager Howie Roseman: “We're thrilled to be able to add a young and productive linebacker in DeMeco Ryans. We'd like to thank [Houston general manager] Rick Smith and the Texans. Once we found out that he could be available to us in a trade, we quickly found a way to work together to produce a good outcome for both teams.”

Here's what Smith had to say:

“DeMeco Ryans contributed significantly toward helping us build the foundation we hope will bring a world championship to the city of Houston. His professionalism and leadership cannot be over-exaggerated. This move was mutually beneficial for the Texans immediate and long-term goals, DeMeco's career, and the Philadelphia Eagles. We appreciate all the hard work and effort DeMeco invested in our organization and wish him only the best moving forward. He is a class act.”

CloakNNNdagger
03-20-2012, 08:43 PM
The Eagles must not have been particularly high on what is at least perceived to be a deep free-agent inside linebacker market. They’re willing to surrender the pick, plus pick up Ryans’ remaining base salaries of $5.9 million (2012), $6.6 million (2013), and $6.8 million (2014-2015).

link PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/20/report-texans-trading-demeco-ryans-to-the-eagles/)

GP
03-20-2012, 08:44 PM
That's true. Smith is getting too much "credit" for these moves. They had to be stamped by Kubiak, Phillips, and McNair. I know McNair didn't like losing a guy like Ryans. It was a real tough move by the organization. If there's no salary cap, DeMeco is on this team.

How many of us work for a company where, at some point, a manager has been told by the CEO to create a list of fat trimming to clear the way for the company to withstand the wounds caused either by outside OR internal forces? All of us.

To me, there's no way a GM is dictating which guys stay and which guys go. He tells the coaches "This is what we need to free up. I'll leave you guys to yourselves to figure out how to make it work."

So then Kubiak, the HC, meets regularly with his coaches and they all evaluate film of the past few seasons. "Eric is not good at pass pro," says Kubiak...many in the room nod in agreement. Later, Wade pulls up Meco's name and they all discuss him. They probably even had Rick Smith to some degree sitting in on the talks to keep him abreast....he weighs in but reiterates its a tough call and it's up to the coaches.

But no. No, Rick Smith is single handedly determining the fate of the Texans. We're all smarter than that.

These decisions are resultant of our success, the price of that success, and a boss who probably told his manager to notify and let lower-level managers decide how to make it work.

For all we know, last year Bob (at this time) said he wants the world on a platter and we'd figure out how to pay for it later. In fact, they might have already had the Dooms Day List prepared all the way back to last offseason when Bob made the play for Manning, Joseph, and Vickers.

UberDork
03-20-2012, 08:45 PM
I hope this works out, but my gut says this move will stretch team chemistry a good bit.

Did this trade really get announced while some of our "core" defensive players were on the air? That notion rings an alarm bell to me, but I don't know what it means...plenty of thoughts though.

TheMatrix31
03-20-2012, 08:48 PM
Those thoughts by the teammates piss me off.

It's clear that this dude means WAY more to this team that what was shown on the field last year.

ckhouston
03-20-2012, 08:48 PM
I hope this works out, but my gut says this move will stretch team chemistry a good bit.

Did this trade really get announced while some of our "core" defensive players were on the air? That notion rings an alarm bell to me, but I don't know what it means...plenty of thoughts though.

Cushing is our leader. Watt is our future. We are fine.

michaelm
03-20-2012, 08:50 PM
That's true. Smith is getting too much "credit" for these moves. They had to be stamped by Kubiak, Phillips, and McNair. I know McNair didn't like losing a guy like Ryans. It was a real tough move by the organization. If there's no salary cap, DeMeco is on this team.

It is interesting that, according to many people, Wade gets 100% of the credit for picking all of the defensive players in last year's draft, but Rick Smith is the villain for this trade.

One guy gets all the credit for the good stuff, and a complete pass on the bad? Hmmm...

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 08:50 PM
not when you consider a football team has 22 starters. Its not like baseball or basketball where you can win big with a couple of stars and a supporting cast.

No .... but your big money guys need to be stars . All three were picked in 2006 and have a combined 4 pro bowls seasons out of a combined 18 total . I would go as far as to say Demeco was the 4th best LB on the team last year , Winston the 3rd best OL , and Mario only played 5 games .
l

GP
03-20-2012, 08:50 PM
not when you consider a football team has 22 starters. Its not like baseball or basketball where you can win big with a couple of stars and a supporting cast.

We got more leaders now than all of Capers' era put together.

2011 somehow got erased from fans' minds with the loss of Ryans.

I won't list all the guys we have now, guys who are easily every bit of the leader Ryans is. I already did so earlier. It's a big list.

Sad to see an original gangsta' headed to Philly, but we at least got something and the Eagles pay his $20-something million salary.

Señor Stan
03-20-2012, 08:50 PM
Man, that 2006 draft class was THE best in the history of....wait....what?...

Norg
03-20-2012, 08:51 PM
sowhat did we get a 3rd round pick ??????????????

infantrycak
03-20-2012, 08:52 PM
Cushing is our leader. Watt is our future. We are fine.

Players being good is not the same as being leaders. Anyone not blind could see Ryans was an active and intellectual leader for the D. He walked over at times and told Cushing to chill out and keep to his assignments. Being good and being a leader are different.

Vinny
03-20-2012, 08:52 PM
From eagles.com...
In a move designed to augment the heart of the defense, the Eagles acquired two-time Pro Bowl middle linebacker DeMeco Ryans in a trade from the Houston Texans on Tuesday. In exchange, the Texans received a fourth-round pick (originally acquired from Tampa Bay) in the 2012 NFL Draft. The Eagles and Texans also swap third-round picks this year.

With this piece added to the puzzle, the Eagles defense is poised to build upon a 2011 season in which it finished in the top 10 in both points and yards allowed. The 6-1, 247-pound Ryans is the total package as he brings size, athleticism, leadership, experience and production to the Eagles. Ryans signed a six-year deal with the Texans in March 2010 that runs through the 2015 season.

"DeMeco is a proven Pro Bowl linebacker in this league and we’re excited to be able to plug him into the middle of our defense," said head coach Andy Reid. "He’s been the signal caller and a leader on a very good Texans defense for the last several years. He’s a tough, instinctive football player and he’ll be a great fit for our team."

"We’re thrilled to be able to add a young and productive linebacker in DeMeco Ryans," said general manager Howie Roseman. "We’d like to thank [Houston general manager] Rick Smith and the Texans. Once we found out that he could be available to us in a trade, we quickly found a way to work together to produce a good outcome for both teams."

Lauded as one of the league's best tacklers, the 27-year-old Ryans was the first Houston Texan to amass 600 tackles in a career. In his six seasons with Houston, Ryans notched 636 tackles (479 solo), 8.5 sacks, two interceptions, six forced fumbles, eight fumble recoveries and a touchdown. Since he entered the league in 2006 as a second-round pick (33rd overall) out of Alabama, Ryans ranks sixth in the AFC with an average of 7.4 tackles per game. Ryans had a streak of four straight seasons with 100-or-more tackles that spanned from 2006 through 2009.

Nicknamed "Cap" because of how he is admired and respected in the locker room, Ryans was one of the team captains on defense for the regular season and postseason in 2011. In fact, Ryans was instrumental in helping teach new coordinator Wade Phillips' 3-4 scheme as Houston transitioned from a 4-3 defense during the lockout-shortened offseason. The starting inside linebacker on the weak side in Houston’s 3-4 alignment, Ryans started all 16 regular season games and was third on the team with 64 total tackles last season. Houston boasted one of the league's best defenses in 2011 as the Texans were second in total defense and fourth in points allowed helping the franchise win its first division title and playoff game.

Ryans was named the Houston Texans' recipient of the Ed Block Courage Award in 2011 as he valiantly returned from an Achilles injury that prematurely ended his 2010 campaign. He was also the winner of the Mark Bruener Award for community service as his DeMeco Ryans Foundation has raised money for a number of charitable groups in the Houston area.

For those alarmed by Ryans' Achilles injury, Texans head coach Gary Kubiak remarked that the linebacker "was back playing like DeMeco of a couple years ago the last five or six weeks of the season." The 10 games missed at the end of the 2010 season are the only games that Ryans has missed during his six-year career. http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Eagles-Acquire-Pro-Bowl-LB-Ryans/bc54eba2-e3ac-44ba-87bb-394cb108e059

kingh99
03-20-2012, 08:52 PM
He was phenom his rookie season. Led the league in tackles. Blew people up. That was then. This is now.

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 08:52 PM
Those thoughts by the teammates piss me off.

It's clear that this dude means WAY more to this team that what was shown on the field last year.

These guys have leaders , they'll be fine .

Grams
03-20-2012, 08:52 PM
We had a little over 4 mill in cap space left - if we have to take a 6.5 mill cap hit - who is going to be cut/traded next?

GP
03-20-2012, 08:53 PM
Those thoughts by the teammates piss me off.

It's clear that this dude means WAY more to this team that what was shown on the field last year.

Or...they're paying mad respect to a guy who deserves it and that's all it is.

One thing doesn't mean another.

They all know this is business. It's impossible to keep the whole gang together forever.

aussie_texan
03-20-2012, 08:53 PM
sowhat did we get a 3rd round pick ??????????????

4th rounder plus we swapped 3rd rounders.

Vinny
03-20-2012, 08:53 PM
We got more leaders now than all of Capers' era put together.

2011 somehow got erased from fans' minds with the loss of Ryans.

I won't list all the guys we have now, guys who are easily every bit of the leader Ryans is. I already did so earlier. It's a big list.


2010 somehow got erased from your mind.

Brando
03-20-2012, 08:54 PM
The first 2 picks of the 2006 draft are now gone thanks to money. Thanks to DeMeco for the hard work and dedication he has put in for the franchise.

Goatcheese
03-20-2012, 08:54 PM
So much hate right now.

Ktexan68
03-20-2012, 08:54 PM
McClain first revision:

John McClain ‏ @McClain_on_NFL
I was wrong. Texans take a $2 mil hit on cap cause of prorated signing bonus, not $6.75 mil. That figure includes base salary. Sorry.

Vinny
03-20-2012, 08:55 PM
McClain first revision:

John McClain ‏ @McClain_on_NFL
I was wrong. Texans take a $2 mil hit on cap cause of prorated signing bonus, not $6.75 mil. That figure includes base salary. Sorry.
lol, classic stuff.

mussop
03-20-2012, 08:55 PM
It's a 4h rounder and we swap 3rds

GP
03-20-2012, 08:55 PM
2010 somehow got erased from your mind.

You're right. 2011 erased it.

But it's a fact that 2012 will be like 2010, isn't it?

fiasco west
03-20-2012, 08:55 PM
People saying that he wasn't what he used to be need to realize he was coming off a major injury and playing in a new scheme.

Go back and look at those two playoff games and say he wasn't what he used to be.

Vinny
03-20-2012, 08:56 PM
You're right. 2011 erased it.

But it's a fact that 2012 will be like 2010, isn't it?That's your territory. I comment on what I see. You seem to comment on anything and everything.

aussie_texan
03-20-2012, 08:56 PM
McClain first revision:

John McClain ‏ @McClain_on_NFL
I was wrong. Texans take a $2 mil hit on cap cause of prorated signing bonus, not $6.75 mil. That figure includes base salary. Sorry.

:kubepalm: :wadepalm: :facepalm: :hankpalm: :smiliepalm: :toropalm:

Kimmy
03-20-2012, 08:56 PM
McClain first revision:

John McClain ‏ @McClain_on_NFL
I was wrong. Texans take a $2 mil hit on cap cause of prorated signing bonus, not $6.75 mil. That figure includes base salary. Sorry.

Thank goodness

Playoffs
03-20-2012, 08:57 PM
And the Rockets released Jeremy Lin, too. :headhurts:

HoustonFrog
03-20-2012, 08:58 PM
Twitter

@ChrisSolis: 2 down ILBs are easy to find. Team leaders are not. #Texans

Brian Cushing ‏ @briancushing56
I wouldn't be half the player or person I am today without @DRyans59 this one hurts. Philly got a unbelievable player and leader today. #59

Nawzer
03-20-2012, 08:58 PM
National Accounting League.

"Where spreadsheets happen".

TejasTom
03-20-2012, 08:58 PM
Now I need a new battle red jersey.

pirbroke
03-20-2012, 08:58 PM
McClain first revision:

John McClain ‏ @McClain_on_NFL
I was wrong. Texans take a $2 mil hit on cap cause of prorated signing bonus, not $6.75 mil. That figure includes base salary. Sorry.

his base was 5.9 this year so now we have a extra 3.9 mil. I think

ckhouston
03-20-2012, 08:59 PM
Players being good is not the same as being leaders. Anyone not blind could see Ryans was an active and intellectual leader for the D. He walked over at times and told Cushing to chill out and keep to his assignments. Being good and being a leader are different.

Nothing takes the place of intensity. If you are at war and are on the front line do you want Cushing or Ryans in your foxhole? Yeah, thought so.

DocBar
03-20-2012, 09:00 PM
not when you consider a football team has 22 starters. Its not like baseball or basketball where you can win big with a couple of stars and a supporting cast.Seriously? No team is loaded with star players as their starters. Teams will have some stars, but they rely heavily on the supporting cast to do their part and play their role. That goes a long way towards being a winning franchise.

Bulls on Parade
03-20-2012, 09:00 PM
What are the odds that the Texans draft a future pro bowler and team MVP (at any position) with that fourth-round pick? Slim to none am I right? Swapping third-round picks otherwise. Sigh...

RT22
03-20-2012, 09:00 PM
What if this is what Meco wanted? Maybe he did not want to be a 2 down player anymore or did not like being in a 3-4 defense and asked to be traded. Also if you noticed Cushing was calling the defense every down and it seemed the leadership begun to change at that point.

BullNation4Life
03-20-2012, 09:00 PM
People saying that he wasn't what he used to be need to realize he was coming off a major injury and playing in a new scheme.

Go back and look at those two playoff games and say he wasn't what he used to be.

Not for the money he was making, he wasn't. Great player, hate to see him go but I, and maybe only me, saw this coming last year when Demeco was playing maybe a quarter of the defensive snaps in Phillips 3-4.

I thought he was going to be released. At least the texans got something for him...

NEXT MAN CUT! Should be this years motto...

welsh texan
03-20-2012, 09:00 PM
Hows about instead of sobbing about the sky falling all off-season why the hell aren't we celebrating the maturation of this franchise into one that doesn't overpay for injury troubled players who don't fit the scheme??

Ryans was a great guy and in his time a really good player. We handed him a contract that was heading to backfire, the guys caphit was going to be higher than our starting QB's ffs!!

Time to get a grip.

Am I really the only person on this board who doesn't have any problem with the moves we've made so far this offseason?? We're trimming the fat people, we've outgrown a bunch of guys who looked great on a poor team, who got paid a ****load of cash because we didn't have anyone else around to spend our cap limit on. Guys like DeMeco & Winston were getting paid elite money at their positions and weren't playing up to it, in DeMeco's case that was partly injury, partly that he doesn't fit the scheme, either way, he wasn't worth his cap hit to this team. Move on.

Also, talk of having to start mid-round rookies is bull****. Name a single position on our team, aside from K, where we don't have a quality backup ready-groomed to step in where our starter has left, it doesn't exist, we'll draft for depth and give these guys a camp battle, and we'll continue to develop our own talent.

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 09:01 PM
Seriously? No team is loaded with star players as their starters. Teams will have some stars, but they rely heavily on the supporting cast to do their part and play their role. That goes a long way towards being a winning franchise.

Supporting castcant get paid big bucks .

The Cush
03-20-2012, 09:01 PM
If you were an Eagles fan would you rather have Demeco and his contract or just draft Luke Kuechly out of BC?

Could you imagine if the Texans somehow got Kuechly in the 1st? The instincts of him and Cushing together would be crazy.

BullNation4Life
03-20-2012, 09:02 PM
Seriously? No team is loaded with star players as their starters. Teams will have some stars, but they rely heavily on the supporting cast to do their part and play their role. That goes a long way towards being a winning franchise.

Yup Patriots where never really loaded with stars on defense, just one huge one on offense, and they found ways to win...

The Third Man
03-20-2012, 09:02 PM
I hate to see DeMeco go, but he was a below average linebacker last year even on the two downs he played. Getting draft picks for him and losing his salary is great. I know DeMeco was recovering from the Achilles injury and had a bad elbow injury, but Sharpton was playing better and he wasn't making $6 million a year.

The people who think the Texans could have got a second round pick for DeMeco are delusional. Let's look at last year's production: 64 combined tackles, zero sacks, zero interceptions and two forced fumbles. There are about 60 linebackers with better production. This is the bottom of a trend that has seen decreasing production in every year since his rookie campaign. So, how can you expect a second round pick for a player making his salary, at his age and injury history who has had, let me repeat, DECREASING PRODUCTION EVERY SINGLE YEAR? Leaders do it on the field and he's not doing it enough anymore. End of story.

Vinny
03-20-2012, 09:02 PM
Seriously? No team is loaded with star players as their starters. Teams will have some stars, but they rely heavily on the supporting cast to do their part and play their role. That goes a long way towards being a winning franchise.you have reading comprehension issues if you think I said that the team needs to be loaded with stars...but just a couple of big time players and a larger cast of average players will pretty much get you an average team.

Wolf
03-20-2012, 09:02 PM
for me I knew there was going to be some tough cuts/trades but I was hoping to get through this season first

if the Texans go back to their "1 good draft every 4 years" habit, well there will be some more head rolling.

anyway, lets kick some ass in this draft
:fans:

NastyNate
03-20-2012, 09:03 PM
We had a little over 4 mill in cap space left - if we have to take a 6.5 mill cap hit - who is going to be cut/traded next?

I honestly don't think we do, PFT is reporting the Eagles picked up his contract in full.

Vinny
03-20-2012, 09:03 PM
Yup Patriots where never really loaded with stars on defense, just one huge one on offense, and they found ways to win...that's bull...the better Patriot teams were loaded with talent.

TejasTom
03-20-2012, 09:03 PM
NEXT MAN CUT! Should be this years motto...

I agree.

imatexan
03-20-2012, 09:04 PM
Now I need a new battle red jersey.

Your telling me!

I need a new white(Mario) and Red(Demeco).

My blue AJ that I have had since 05 is doing fine though, thank goodness!

Bulls on Parade
03-20-2012, 09:04 PM
Seriously? No team is loaded with star players as their starters. Teams will have some stars, but they rely heavily on the supporting cast to do their part and play their role. That goes a long way towards being a winning franchise.
When you have your first successful draft from top to bottom in franchise history -- back in 2006 when they drafted Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Eric Winston and Owen Daniels -- you expect that foundation to be the ground work for a playoff team. Finally we have a playoff team and three of those guys are gone in one off-season. I'm surprised we're able to hang on to Owen Daniels. Why not just release him or trade him to the Broncos for a 4th or 5th round pick? The way Rick Smith is operating this off-seaosn it wouldn't shock me. I'm beyond upset with the Texans front office right now so forgive me for being a little sarcastic.

gafftop
03-20-2012, 09:04 PM
]I think what's going on is clear: Rick bungled the salary cap. The GM's NUMBER ONE JOB is to manage the salary cap, and he blew it. [/B]So we get ONE YEAR of a good team.

Un-freaking-believable.





Smithiak's job was on the line. See the one week old post below.

What happened to the "What to do with Mario Post" Why was it merged with Mario signs for $100 million and removed from Texan Talk??? Out of site out of mind I guess. A lot of what is happening is due to the inaction of the FO in the handling of Mario BEFORE the season started last year.



Difference between Morey and Smith is that Morey has been dealt a tough hand. With Yao and T-Mac done we were put in a really bad situation that we're going to come out of next year. Morey is doing the best he can with what he has. Not saying he's perfect, but I doubt there are many other GMs who could've done a better job than him. Plus, with super stars congregating it's hard to get one of those guys. As for Smith, I'm not going to complain too much about the Mario, Winston, and Brisiel loses because I think we have players who can replace them. My worry is that there is no one on the team right now imo who can replace Ryans. Sharpton is coming off major injury and expecting him to come in right away and replace that hole at ILB is bit unrealistic imo. It might take him up to a year to fully recover. Don't get me wrong, I hope Sharpton comes in and tears it up because above all I want my Texans to win. But it's not a realistic goal if you're going to play mid round rookies in critical position and hope to make a deep playoff run. It could happen, but imo it's not very likely. Of course, between now and game 1 we will probably sign some vets, so that remains to be seen.


I am going to complain about how Smith handled Mario because before last season started he should have known we would not be able to keep Mario this year. I have stated this before and I felt how they handled Mario would be the most important decision the FO made because of the far reaching consequences it would have on the team. You are now seeing some of them. You can't lose one of your best trade baits and get NOTHING but that is what the Texans did with Mario.

1 Week Ago #1
gafftop
Hall of Fame


Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 54
Posts: 1,016
Rep Power: 1248 Anybody else have concerns about our FO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems to me that our braintrust might have miscalculated. I know they were under the gun to win last year or they would possibly/probably get the boot themselves but was the team's long term quest to be a yearly contender put at risk with the moves they made last year? Did we pull a Florida Marlins and shoot for the moon with the knowledge that we would have to blow the team up as soon as the season was over? To be honest it might have worked except for injuries.

I am not sure and would like your opinion. I think the main mistake made was not trading Mario before the season started last year thus allowing us to sign some players before their FA year and allow us to accumulate draft choices.

A lot of what is happening to the Texans is due to inaction in reference to Mario.

Hate to see Ryans go. Would have much rather seen Mario go last year and had extra draft choices and money. Maybe the FO learned something from last year but a real GM would have already known what to do last year and maybe some of this year's damage could have been avoided.

Just hope Wade gets well or "The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread" is going to raise its ugly head again.

Nawzer
03-20-2012, 09:04 PM
Breaking news:

The Houston Texans have traded my mother to the Eagles for multiple mid-round picks. Analysts are calling this a win-win move for the Texans and Eagles, but it's going to be tough for Nawzer. Her unconditional love, support, and wisdom will be sorely missed.

Vinny
03-20-2012, 09:04 PM
I honestly don't think we do, PFT is reporting the Eagles picked up his contract in full.all bonuses are accelerated and cannot be passed on to the new team. They can pay his remaining salary but we have to pay the other...and that's the cap hit.

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 09:05 PM
Oh well Demeco joins the dream team .

pirbroke
03-20-2012, 09:05 PM
What are the odds that the Texans draft a future pro bowler and team MVP (at any position) with that fourth-round pick? Slim to none am I right? Swapping third-round picks otherwise. Sigh...

We can package that 4th and our 4th and get in the third, then use our two thirds to get a 2nd, then use our two 2nd to get RG3, LOL. OK I got carried away.

WolverineFan
03-20-2012, 09:07 PM
I don't F'n understand why this team always lets solid vets walk away.

Especially a guy like Demeco who was loved here by his teammates and fans and seemed willing to play here DESPITE not playing 3rd downs you hardly ever hear him complain about it.

This team is relying TOO much on the draft. Which is fine if you are not a team that people are expecting to come out of the AFC.

You don't see the Ravens trading Ray Lewis do you? (yes I know Demeco is no Ray, but the situation is kinda the same)

Ravens just let Ben Grubbs, Jarrett Johnson, and Cory Redding walk. The Pats let guys walk all the time.

Great teams are built through the draft. That's what a lot of people don't seem to understand. Who was the last offseason champion to win the Super Bowl? Teams that draft well win...period.

Bulls on Parade
03-20-2012, 09:07 PM
I hate to see DeMeco go, but he was a below average linebacker last year even on the two downs he played. Getting draft picks for him and losing his salary is great. I know DeMeco was recovering from the Achilles injury and had a bad elbow injury, but Sharpton was playing better and he wasn't making $6 million a year.
End of story.
Wait until DeMeco Ryans makes his third pro bowl on an NFC East champion Eagles team next year. Then tell me how he's a below average linebacker at that time. He was the missing piece for them. I now believe the Eagles are a better team than the defending Super Bowl champion Giants. The Eagles will spank 'em twice in 2012, and they'll probably beat Dallas and Washington twice also for a 6-0 division record.

BullNation4Life
03-20-2012, 09:08 PM
that's bull...the better Patriot teams were loaded with talent.

Really? Most of their defense were castoffs from other teams. They had good players, but only a couple that stood out. Can u name any of their CBs from their SB days? How about their Dlineman, not named Seymore? How about their WRs?

And without looking them up....

TexansFanatic
03-20-2012, 09:08 PM
One playoff win after a ten year slog through the desert of mediocrity and suddenly it's time to dismantle the team and start the rebuilding process.

Wow.

Vinny
03-20-2012, 09:08 PM
Wait until DeMeco Ryans makes his third pro bowl on an NFC East champion Eagles team next year. Then tell me how he's a below average linebacker at that time. He was the missing piece for them. I now believe the Eagles are a better team than the defending Super Bowl champion Giants. The Eagles will spank 'em twice in 2012, and they'll probably beat Dallas and Washington twice also for a 6-0 division record.
yep, he's gonna be a beast now that he is healthy again. He's gonna make us look like morons.

Bulls on Parade
03-20-2012, 09:10 PM
Ravens just let Ben Grubbs, Jarrett Johnson, and Cory Redding walk. The Pats let guys walk all the time.

Great teams are built through the draft. That's what a lot of people don't seem to understand. Who was the last offseason champion to win the Super Bowl? Teams that draft well win...period.
Agreed but teams that have great drafts don't let the entire draft class get away in one off-season, especially after making the playoffs for the first time in franchise history and the excitement in the city for the Texans was at an all-time high. Adios to that amazing 2006 draft. We can now put Charley Casserly behind us once and for all. When I watch Owen Daniels play I'll just hang on to the one gem we were able to keep.

BullNation4Life
03-20-2012, 09:10 PM
Breaking news:

The Houston Texans have traded my mother to the Eagles for multiple mid-round picks. Analysts are calling this a win-win move for the Texans and Eagles, but it's going to be tough for Nawzer. Her unconditional love, support, and wisdom will be sorely missed.

No loss, she has sucked for a veeeeeery long time....


You put it on a tee, I'll put it the fairway....

MojoX
03-20-2012, 09:10 PM
Wow. What a shock. But not a surprise. This team just paid bank to both Foster and Myers. Next year it will be Barwin (especially if he continues to improve) and Brown (LT money). After that, Cushing is on board to get paid.

Dunno if this was a pure salary dump with the intent of taking the hit now or opening space for other moves this offseason. But, at any rate, this team is going to continue to make a series of big pay day and enraging cut decisions. I just did not think Ryans would get cut/moved until next offseason.

kiwitexansfan
03-20-2012, 09:11 PM
Really sad to see the team leader get dealt away for a packet of peanuts.

I was worried about ILB depth before this, now I am horrified.

Sad day, this hurts much more than letting Mario walk for a big paycheck elsewhere.

blitz90
03-20-2012, 09:11 PM
from ProFootballTalk.com

UPDATE 8:00 pm. ET: The Eagles announced the deal on Tuesday evening, and they gave up a fourth-round pick in the 2012 draft in exchange for Ryans. The Eagles and Texans also swapped 2012 third-round picks.

So they'll get a mid 3rd round instead of a late one, and add a mid 4th rounder.

BullNation4Life
03-20-2012, 09:12 PM
One playoff win after a ten year slog through the desert of mediocrity and suddenly it's time to dismantle the team and start the rebuilding process.

Wow.

Why is it when the Steeler, Pats, Ravens do the same thing and let great talent walk, then go get younger talent it is called re-loading....

So when the Texans do it, it's called rebuilding?


Makes no sense to me....

mussop
03-20-2012, 09:13 PM
If you were an Eagles fan would you rather have Demeco and his contract or just draft Luke Kuechly out of BC?

Could you imagine if the Texans somehow got Kuechly in the 1st? The instincts of him and Cushing together would be crazy.

This is the first thing I thought of. Hopefully its Kuechly if not Hightower wouldn't be a bad consolation prize.




NEXT MAN CUT! Should be this years motto...

Well so far its all 2006 guys so I guess OD is next. The TE's are under rated in this class.

Vinny
03-20-2012, 09:13 PM
Really? Most of their defense were castoffs from other teams. They had good players, but only a couple that stood out. Can u name any of their CBs from their SB days? How about their Dlineman, not named Seymore? How about their WRs?

And without looking them up....Sure I can and I probably follow the league closer than you do since I seem to be obsessed with creating football message boards. Not that my opinion is better than yours but guys like Rodney Harrison, Rosevelt Colvin and Tedy Bruschi were great leaders and players in their prime....that's not a cast of chumps. If you haven't noticed, since the Pats have lost much of that defensive talent...they aren't as good a team anymore. This Patriots didn't have that much talent thing is a myth.

jaayteetx
03-20-2012, 09:13 PM
DeMeco was a hellva leader and an awesome LB when healthy but under Wade's system, he just doesn't see the field enough to justify his salary. Under a salary cap, tough decisions need to be made and this was one of them. I, for one, am not gonna freak out over this.

Nawzer
03-20-2012, 09:14 PM
No loss, she has sucked for a veeeeeery long time....


You put it on a tee, I'll put it the fairway....

Hahaha. With that big contract she might have let things slip.

welsh texan
03-20-2012, 09:14 PM
What are the odds that the Texans draft a future pro bowler and team MVP (at any position) with that fourth-round pick? Slim to none am I right? Swapping third-round picks otherwise. Sigh...

What are the odds that we draft a solid contributor with that pick? Someone who plays an important role when called upon?

Because Ryans certainly didn't look like a future ProBowler playing situational downs in Wade's system to me.

Or we could just pretend that we just lost 07 DeMeco. Cushing will be the leader on this D now as well, and impressive as it was, I doubt we ever have a team that bad again that a 2nd round rookie gets the chance to walk in and become the de facto leader of the entire team from day 1, which is the embarrassing state our team was in when DeMeco walked in. As fantastic as he was at the role, the dude should have been too busy getting hazed the **** out of to step up and lead.

jaayteetx
03-20-2012, 09:14 PM
Oh well Demeco joins the dream team .

how that "dream team" work out for them last year anyway?

fiasco west
03-20-2012, 09:14 PM
Ravens just let Ben Grubbs, Jarrett Johnson, and Cory Redding walk. The Pats let guys walk all the time.

Great teams are built through the draft. That's what a lot of people don't seem to understand. Who was the last offseason champion to win the Super Bowl? Teams that draft well win...period.

Ben Grubbs I'll give you.

Jarret Johnson...no not on Meco's level. Not even close.

Cory Redding same thing.

The Pats really don't let guys go. Instead they trade them for 1st or 2nd round picks...which isn't what we just did.

roooshi
03-20-2012, 09:15 PM
PANCAKE WAS WRONG.

"McClain_on_NFL John McClain
I was wrong. Texans take a $2 mil hit on cap cause of prorated signing bonus, not $6.75 mil. That figure includes base salary. Sorry."

NastyNate
03-20-2012, 09:16 PM
all bonuses are accelerated and cannot be passed on to the new team. They can pay his remaining salary but we have to pay the other...and that's the cap hit.

Understandably, he was guaranteed 21 million of his 48 million dollar contract. I don't know his signing bonus, maybe 14-16 million? I can't see us covering more than 2 million this year.

welsh texan
03-20-2012, 09:16 PM
Really? Most of their defense were castoffs from other teams. They had good players, but only a couple that stood out. Can u name any of their CBs from their SB days? How about their Dlineman, not named Seymore? How about their WRs?

And without looking them up....

Wilfork Bodden Branch, I may be wrong on a couple of them, but at least I didn't cheat and look em up.

ArlingtonTexan
03-20-2012, 09:17 PM
Why is it when the Steeler, Pats, Ravens do the same thing and let great talent walk, then go get younger talent it is called re-loading....

So when the Texans do it, it's called rebuilding?


Makes no sense to me....

Only having only playoff season of trust built up?

Wolf
03-20-2012, 09:17 PM
Why is it when the Steeler, Pats, Ravens do the same thing and let great talent walk, then go get younger talent it is called re-loading....

So when the Texans do it, it's called rebuilding?


Makes no sense to me....

Texans have no history of drafting consistantly well , that is where the pessimistic comes in (in my case)

The Cush
03-20-2012, 09:18 PM
Paul Kuharsky has a different value for this year's cap hit...

The move doesn’t do anything to alleviate the team’s cap issues. It will actually cost Houston $750,000 this year. While Ryans was due the large base salary, he had $9 million left of a pro-rated signing bonus that moves to this year with the trade. He will be off the Texans' books next year.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth

BullNation4Life
03-20-2012, 09:18 PM
Ben Grubbs I'll give you.

Jarret Johnson...no not on Meco's level. Not even close.

Cory Redding same thing.

The Pats really don't let guys go. Instead they trade them for 1st or 2nd round picks...which isn't what we just did.

Because Demeco Ryan's isnt On Richard Seymore level...

And the Eagles are not as stupid as the Raiders...

leebigeztx
03-20-2012, 09:19 PM
At least they didn't dump him on the market and have him waiting like lofton. Salary corrections is what they're doing. Ryans was gedtting paid way too much for what he was doing. He was below average in coverage even b4 the injury. Remember when davis kept running seam routes on him? What about shockey last yr. 3m player getting paid double that.

BullNation4Life
03-20-2012, 09:20 PM
Only having only playoff season of trust built up?

Touche...

TexansFanatic
03-20-2012, 09:21 PM
Why is it when the Steeler, Pats, Ravens do the same thing and let great talent walk, then go get younger talent it is called re-loading....

So when the Texans do it, it's called rebuilding?


Makes no sense to me....

Is this a serious question?

Those teams you've mentioned have had perennial playoff appearances, multiple Super Bowl appearances and have multiple Super Bowl victories.

Reloading is something champions do.

TheMatrix31
03-20-2012, 09:24 PM
Paul Kuharsky has a different value for this year's cap hit...



http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth



Cool bro.

Texecutioner
03-20-2012, 09:24 PM
Yup Patriots where never really loaded with stars on defense, just one huge one on offense, and they found ways to win...

Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Seymour and Ty Law all disagree with you.

The difference with the Patriots in their earlier winning years was that the majority of talent was on their defense while Tom Brady had hardly anything to work with on offense. They were a very well balanced team. Ty Law will be a HOF corner, and the rest of those guys were all amongst the top guys at their position for many years.

drs23
03-20-2012, 09:26 PM
So what's gonna happen when we get rid of #56 for money reasons too? Are we gonna be cool with just drafting his replacement?

I'm all for letting go of guys that are good but can be dealt with. Losing Winston and Brisiel is tough, but not back-breakers. Losing DeMeco means SIGNIFICANTLY more than that.

I think that could be a little "forward thinking" going on here. Cush, Brown, Barwin...Until I've gotta have my crow, I'm going to give the FO a little credit.

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 09:27 PM
Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Seymour and Ty Law all disagree with you.

The difference with the Patriots in their earlier winning years was that the majority of talent was on their defense while Tom Brady had hardly anything to work with on offense. They were a very well balanced team.

and video

thunderkyss
03-20-2012, 09:27 PM
This aint your father's Texans...it looks like the Texans are about doing what they can to win and not doing things to remain loyal. I know it sucks but such is the NFL these days.


All we can to win?


In the last two weeks, we've improved the front 7 of the Bills & the Eagles, we also improved the running game of both the Raiders & the Cheifs.

All for a 4th round pick.

Rick Smith must be working overtime up in Reliant.

[I could really use that Rick SMith facepalm right now]

:kubepalm:

fiasco west
03-20-2012, 09:29 PM
Because Demeco Ryan's isnt On Richard Seymore level...

And the Eagles are not as stupid as the Raiders...

Yeah and that's why you don't trade him in the first place if you aren't getting equal value in return.

4th round pick is not equal value for a team leader and a guy who even according to his coach was getting better and better every week.

Don't even bring up "Cap space." the NFL is about right now and this season. This season you keep him around and see what he can do. This season you try to keep the same core players around and see if you can build off last year not ship them off and create more needs.

The Texans should be drafting for depth this year and instead we'll be drafting for needs.

SAMURAITEXAN
03-20-2012, 09:29 PM
Meco!!! I am shocked. Cant't find anything to say but shocked.

Shaft75
03-20-2012, 09:31 PM
I'll admit I'm pretty pissed that we let Winston go for nothing and DeMeco go for only a 3rd and a move up in the 4th. I'm pretty sure that the Eagles were desperate for a MLB last year. We should have gotten more IMO.

BSofA04
03-20-2012, 09:32 PM
Here's your Spirit of the Bull Award.....aaaaand you're being traded.

WTH man? A 4th and swapping 3rds was not worth the trade.

bigfan77801
03-20-2012, 09:32 PM
I'll admit I'm pretty pissed that we let Winston go for nothing and DeMeco go for only a 3rd and a move up in the 4th. I'm pretty sure that the Eagles were desperate for a MLB last year. We should have gotten more IMO.

The picks we received were in reverse order.

Texecutioner
03-20-2012, 09:33 PM
and video

Like the rest of the league.

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 09:35 PM
Ben Grubbs I'll give you.

Jarret Johnson...no not on Meco's level. Not even close.

Cory Redding same thing.

The Pats really don't let guys go. Instead they trade them for 1st or 2nd round picks...which isn't what we just did.

Saints let Carl Nicks walk .

CloakNNNdagger
03-20-2012, 09:35 PM
yep, he's gonna be a beast now that he is healthy again. He's gonna make us look like morons.

Vinny, I, too, have come to love and respect Demeco. But, I believe his beast days are over. I know many are not convinced of the trend that Achilles-ruptured NFL players have taken following repair, a subject that I reviewed extensively last year. But that player's "best" year typically occurs his first season back from injury. From there, the trend is all down hill, with the strongest downturn seen in the LB position specifically. The Texans may have resigned to this. Philly is more likely to have taken on an albatross than a savior.

Shaft75
03-20-2012, 09:37 PM
The picks we received were in reverse order.

lol even worse...

I'm drafting for the Eagles in the TT mock and the Eagles have an assload of picks. 2 in the 2nd, 2 in the 4. We should have at least gotten one of those second rounders, or a straight up 3rd.

Especially if we are going to be building through the draft. Building is such a crappy word to explain your team right now.

dream_team
03-20-2012, 09:38 PM
Vinny, I, too, have come to love and respect Demeco. But, I believe his beast days are over. I know many are not convinced of the trend that Achilles-ruptured NFL players have taken following repair, a subject that I reviewed extensively last year. But that player's "best" year typically occurs his first season back from injury. From there, the trend is all down hill, with the strongest downturn seen in the LB position specifically. The Texans may have resigned to this. Philly is more likely to have taken on an albatross than a savior.

Thanks CND for shedding some intelligent light on this situation.

Now what to do with DeMeco jersey I just bought a month ago?

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 09:39 PM
Vinny, I, too, have come to love and respect Demeco. But, I believe his beast days are over. I know many are not convinced of the trend that Achilles-ruptured NFL players have taken following repair, a subject that I reviewed extensively last year. But that player's "best" year typically occurs his first season back from injury. From there, the trend is all down hill, with the strongest downturn seen in the LB position specifically. The Texans may have resigned to this. Philly is more likely to have taken on an albatross than a savior.

What about the elbow ?

TexansSeminole
03-20-2012, 09:39 PM
You have to understand that Philly is also trading for DeMeco's contract. That is part of the valuation process.

BSofA04
03-20-2012, 09:39 PM
Texanstalk.com is going to need new banners after this off-season!

I'm looking at the one with DeMeco and Mario tackling Bush.

Bulls on Parade
03-20-2012, 09:39 PM
Yeah and that's why you don't trade him in the first place if you aren't getting equal value in return.

4th round pick is not equal value for a team leader and a guy who even according to his coach was getting better and better every week.

Don't even bring up "Cap space." the NFL is about right now and this season. This season you keep him around and see what he can do. This season you try to keep the same core players around and see if you can build off last year not ship them off and create more needs.

The Texans should be drafting for depth this year and instead we'll be drafting for needs.
That's the sad part of everything. The Texans were finally getting respect around the country as a top-tier team. When they walked off the field as a 20-13 divisional round loser in Baltimore, it almost seemed like they had earned even more respect around the league. People finally noticed their resiliency and toughness as a team.

People were calling the Texans a Super Bowl favorite in 2012 and the most balanced team in the league on both sides of the ball when healthy. It was important to keep together the same team and re-sign as many of our own guys as we could. The fact we didn't even use the franchise tag was an idiotic blunder by the front office. I don't want to hear any crap about the salary cap. You make guys restructure contracts and according to Troy Aikman, it's not hard for teams to make enough cap space needed to keep your star player.

But after the past week of losing notable players, we're now gearing up for the draft with a lot of team needs, when we ended the season as arguably the team with the fewest needs in the NFL. All we needed was some luck staying healthy, especially at the quarterback position. We were a Super Bowl contender before and right now I don't even know if I would call us the best team in the AFC South.

Only Rick Smith could ruin something this great...
Not even sure Charley Casserly would drop the ball this badly!
Pardon my sarcasm. I'll hopefully feel better after the draft.

chicagotexan2
03-20-2012, 09:39 PM
The dream teAm just got dreamier. I hope this team didn't blow it's wad too soon.

GP
03-20-2012, 09:40 PM
Here's your Spirit of the Bull Award.....aaaaand you're being traded.

WTH man? A 4th and swapping 3rds was not worth the trade.

We cleared him off our books for 2013, which clears several million for when we need to re-sign another guy in early 2013.

We received a 4th round in the upcoming draft, and we moved up 12 spots in the 3rd round in the upcoming draft.

This was "as worth it" as we were ever going to get for a guy with his salary, his injury history, and his age.

Man alive, when we let guys walk and get nothing in return...we are losers. When we actually get something for a guy...we're still losers. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

All it takes is one or two guys out of the early rounds of the 2012 draft and things will correct themselves on its own.

fiasco west
03-20-2012, 09:41 PM
Saints let Carl Nicks walk .

The Saints are hardly a model franchise if you ask me. At least compared to the Steelers or Patriots.

PhilpW
03-20-2012, 09:42 PM
DeMeco's cap hit this year is $7.4M, $8.1M in '13, and $8.3M in '14. (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/demeco-ryans/)
It's the football business folks, not a popularity contest. DeMeco is a fine player and a better man. I wish him well. He'll do better in a 4-3 than he did on two downs in the 3-4.

Rey
03-20-2012, 09:43 PM
Vinny, I, too, have come to love and respect Demeco. But, I believe his beast days are over. I know many are not convinced of the trend that Achilles-ruptured NFL players have taken following repair, a subject that I reviewed extensively last year. But that player's "best" year typically occurs his first season back from injury. From there, the trend is all down hill, with the strongest downturn seen in the LB position specifically. The Texans may have resigned to this. Philly is more likely to have taken on an albatross than a savior.

I knew I had read something like this from you even though I was told I hadn't...

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 09:45 PM
The 49ers of the 80's traded or let walk Joe Montana , Ronnie Lott , Jerry Rice , and Roger Craig .

infantrycak
03-20-2012, 09:46 PM
Nothing takes the place of intensity. If you are at war and are on the front line do you want Cushing or Ryans in your foxhole? Yeah, thought so.

You are making a joke out of yourself. Ryans in a hearbeat. Not only do you have nothing to say he is less intense but anyone who has ever watched the bench has seen he was the leading force. Cushing, Mario, Antonio, everyone looked to and paid attention to DeMeco. And for a real world example since you want to bring up foxholes, it is the difference between me being made squad leader and me assigning a very "intense" kid to the pig (M-60) because at all of 125lbs he was good at it but never could have led a fire team. For all his intensity he didn't have the discipline or smarts to be a leader. But he could intensely follow orders.

Rey
03-20-2012, 09:46 PM
I'm actually starting to feel better about our upcoming season...

I was of the opinion that if they couldn't get Demeco's cap# lower they should have flat out cut him...A trade is even better...

GP
03-20-2012, 09:48 PM
Wade Phillips all but telegraphed this move when he decided early in 2011 off-season that he felt Brian Cushing could handle the Mike position just fine.

There was some trepidation on behalf of fans on here who felt DeMeco Ryans was THE Mike, period, and it was therefore a risky move to put Cushing there instead.

Where did that decision to put Cushing at the Mike place DeMeco? On the outside looking in, staring this trade right in the eyes once we got to this point in 2012. That's where.

'Meco slid off the Mike in 2011 and would have been the Mike if anything happened to Cushing. Now we have Cushing solidified at the Mike and the Texans will go after DeMeco's replacement in the draft or FA or off our roster or whatever.

The world will keep spinning.

drunkcookie
03-20-2012, 09:49 PM
This really sucks because i did not want to see DeMeco go, i love that guy... He did a pretty dang good job coming off of that injury, and for those saying he played below average/whatever you don't know you football...

HOWEVER.org, 6mil this year and 5 next for a guy who is taken off the field in 3rd down situations? You do not draft guys to do that, so why would you continue to highly pay a guy to do that? He's not a 3-4 ILB, this dude is a 100% badass MLB in a 4-3...

A coaching staff and GM have to do a lot when it comes to the talent on their team, and IMO one of the most important things is to improve at every position... Do i think Sharpton can be an improvement? I do think he can be, time will tell.... Do i think the money saved on 'Meco can help in improving talent at other positions? Yes... Do i think the draft picks can help improve the team at other positions? Yes, sure gives us more chances to...

This sucks sucks sucks sucks sucks, but the Texans don't play football tomorrow, or next week, or next month... Let's see where this goes... Not all paths look promising when you first take them, but they can flatten out and lead to great things around their bends...

DocBar
03-20-2012, 09:49 PM
you have reading comprehension issues if you think I said that the team needs to be loaded with stars...but just a couple of big time players and a larger cast of average players will pretty much get you an average team.My reading comprehension is just fine. Maybe you didn't word what you were attempting to say like you wanted to? Out of 11 starters on each side of the ball how many starters need to be stars in your opinion? More importantly, how many of them will be paid like stars? My point is that on each side of the ball you will have a couple of stars that are paid like stars. The rest will be supporting cast members. Of those supporting cast members, you would expect a few to play like stars, well above their pay rate. You know, the whole "build through the draft" idea.

TexansFanatic
03-20-2012, 09:49 PM
The 49ers of the 80's traded or let walk Joe Montana , Ronnie Lott , Jerry Rice , and Roger Craig .

I get what you're saying, but I really think we need to stop trying to compare the Texans to dynasties. We're talking about a team with one playoff victory---one playoff appearance---in its entire existence.

Carr Bombed
03-20-2012, 09:49 PM
Just logged on and the thread was already 15 pages... I tried to catch up, but after 4 straight pages of crying, I decided to cut to the end..

This was NOT a bad move.. people should be happy. I enjoyed watching DeMeco play and respected him as much as the next guy, but can we please cut through the bull here and cut emotional ties for a second.

DeMeco Ryans was WELL on his way to cutsville, if not this offseason then definetely the next. Seriously we already have a thread that claimed Rick Smith is a amatuer for not having the foresight to trade Mario Williams last offseason, thus losing him for nothing. (BTW I also agree with that criticism and said we should've traded Mario last offseason when he was entering a contract year and we were entering a new defensive front)... Well now I've seen that same poster claim in this thread that this move further proves that Rick Smith is a amatuer.. what???

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.. The writing was well on the wall. Demeco shed blood, sweat, and tears for us in the past, but it was clear as day we were moving in another direction long before the season even ended. HE DID NOT FIT THE SCHEME and you can't pay a part time /role player ( which is what he was in this scheme) 6 mil a year. Before he got hurt Daryl Sharpton was the better player and played well in coverage which is what you need from a 3-4 ILB. You have to be able to cover and blitz up tue middle (See Cushing... guess what Demeco doesn't excell at? He isn't a 3-4 ILB and guess what.. despite being a 4-3 MLB with a very high cap hit who was stuck on a 3-4 team...WE STILL got compesation for him. That spells good move for us.

Edit thread has now ballooned to 20 pages.. Im stuck in BFE typing on my phone

Rey
03-20-2012, 09:50 PM
You are making a joke out of yourself. Ryans in a hearbeat. Not only do you have nothing to say he is less intense but anyone who has ever watched the bench has seen he was the leading force. Cushing, Mario, Antonio, everyone looked to and paid attention to DeMeco.

I've watched the bench and I agree...

But to me that doesn't mean much. He was the incumbent. He was almost the leader by default. I think it's time for Cushing to assume that role. He's a big boy now...We have other Vets on the defense in J.Jo and Manning...

JJ Watt is a beast and he seems like the kind of guy that can develop into a leader. I think this defense will be just fine.

JMO.

BetaV1
03-20-2012, 09:51 PM
Put me down as not a big fan of draft picks, especially mid-to-late rounders. When you have a proven quality player at a position, which is much harder to find in this league than people think, you do not give him up for anything other than a second or first round draft pick. DeMeco was clearly one of those guys. Instead, we're back to square one trying to find a fill for a position was taken care of just this morning, and we're probably going to do it by drafting a guy who in all likelihood will be no more than average at best and out the NFL in just a few years at worst.

I'm clearly upset with this move. This is the anti-2011 offseason.

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 09:52 PM
You are making a joke out of yourself. Ryans in a hearbeat. Not only do you have nothing to say he is less intense but anyone who has ever watched the bench has seen he was the leading force. Cushing, Mario, Antonio, everyone looked to and paid attention to DeMeco. And for a real world example since you want to bring up foxholes, it is the difference between me being made squad leader and me assigning a very "intense" kid to the pig (M-60) because at all of 125lbs he was good at it but never could have led a fire team. For all his intensity he didn't have the discipline or smarts to be a leader. But he could intensely follow orders.

I think Demeco was an academic all american at Alabama . He's a lot of things but a guy who plays like his heads on fire he is not . He is a cerebal player who'd make a great coach one day but he ain't Mike Singletary .

Rey
03-20-2012, 09:52 PM
Just logged on and the thread was already 15 pages... I tried to catch up, but after 4 straight pages of crying, I decided to cut to the end..

This was NOT a bad move.. people should be happy. I enjoyed watching DeMeco play and respected him as much as the next guy, but can we please cut through the bull here and cut emotional ties for a second.

DeMeco Ryans was WELL on his way to cutsville, if not this offseason then definetely the next. Seriously we already have a thread that claimed Rick Smith is a amatuer for not having the foresight to trade Mario Williams last offseason, thus losing him for nothing. (BTW I also agree with that criticism and said we should've traded Mario last offseason when he was entering a contract year and we were entering a new defensive front)... Well now I've seen that same poster claim in this thread that this move further proves that Rick Smith is a amatuer.. what???

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.. The writing was well on the wall. Demeco shed blood, sweat, and tears for us in the past, but it was clear as day we were moving in another direction long before the season even ended. HE DID NOT FIT THE SCHEME and you can't pay a part time /role player ( which is what he was in this scheme) 6 mil a year. Before he got hurt Daryl Sharpton was the better player and played well in coverage which is what you need from a 3-4 ILB. You have to be able to cover and blitz up tue middle (See Cushing... guess what Demeco doesn't excell at? He isn't a 3-4 ILB and guess what.. despite being a 4-3 MLB with a very high cap hit who was stuck on a 3-4 team...WE STILL got compesation for him. That spells good move for us.


I don't agree with with you very often, but you are spot on here. Rep.

drunkcookie
03-20-2012, 09:54 PM
Oh, and i hope everyone learns their lessons on jerseys... This is why i get the cheap shirts with a number on it... I aint playing, i don't need a jersey...

GP
03-20-2012, 09:54 PM
Vinny, I, too, have come to love and respect Demeco. But, I believe his beast days are over. I know many are not convinced of the trend that Achilles-ruptured NFL players have taken following repair, a subject that I reviewed extensively last year. But that player's "best" year typically occurs his first season back from injury. From there, the trend is all down hill, with the strongest downturn seen in the LB position specifically. The Texans may have resigned to this. Philly is more likely to have taken on an albatross than a savior.

It's specifically the achilles that bothered me most. Add the two separate arm injuries, a bad shoulder and a bad elbow, and Father Time takes his toll on the guy.

The Eagles have a lot of salary and cap to pay on him in the next few years. But then again, he'll probably be dealt with a lot less humanely than the Texans did today.

At least the Texans didn't outright cut him like they did Winston. Something is wonky about how Winston was cut and DeMeco was traded. Winston is far healthier than DeMeco.

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 09:56 PM
I get what you're saying, but I really think we need to stop trying to compare the Texans to dynasties. We're talking about a team with one playoff victory---one playoff appearance---in its entire existence.

Demeco , Mario , and Winston's time has come and gone here . They got their money and were passed by Brown , Cushing , Barwin , Foster , and Watt . The became expendable .

Texecutioner
03-20-2012, 09:57 PM
Just logged on and the thread was already 15 pages... I tried to catch up, but after 4 straight pages of crying, I decided to cut to the end..

This was NOT a bad move.. people should be happy. I enjoyed watching DeMeco play and respected him as much as the next guy, but can we please cut through the bull here and cut emotional ties for a second.

DeMeco Ryans was WELL on his way to cutsville, if not this offseason then definetely the next. Seriously we already have a thread that claimed Rick Smith is a amatuer for not having the foresight to trade Mario Williams last offseason, thus losing him for nothing. (BTW I also agree with that criticism and said we should've traded Mario last offseason when he was entering a contract year and we were entering a new defensive front)... Well now I've seen that same poster claim in this thread that this move further proves that Rick Smith is a amatuer.. what???

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.. The writing was well on the wall. Demeco shed blood, sweat, and tears for us in the past, but it was clear as day we were moving in another direction long before the season even ended. HE DID NOT FIT THE SCHEME and you can't pay a part time /role player ( which is what he was in this scheme) 6 mil a year. Before he got hurt Daryl Sharpton was the better player and played well in coverage which is what you need from a 3-4 ILB. You have to be able to cover and blitz up tue middle (See Cushing... guess what Demeco doesn't excell at? He isn't a 3-4 ILB and guess what.. despite being a 4-3 MLB with a very high cap hit who was stuck on a 3-4 team...WE STILL got compesation for him. That spells good move for us.

I have not disagreed with this part. My feelings were geared more towards the fact that the compensation we got for him was very little. Just because he isn't a great value to our defense doesn't mean that he isn't to other teams. Sorry, but you're not going to convince me that a 4th rounder was the absolute best that we'd ever get for Demeco Ryans. He is still very capable of being a Pro Bowl LB to a team that runs the 4-3.

Carr Bombed
03-20-2012, 09:57 PM
Just logged on and the thread was already 15 pages... I tried to catch up, but after 4 straight pages of crying, I decided to cut to the end..

This was NOT a bad move.. people should be happy. I enjoyed watching DeMeco play and respected him as much as the next guy, but can we please cut through the bull here and cut emotional ties for a second.

DeMeco Ryans was WELL on his way to cutsville, if not this offseason then definetely the next. Seriously we already have a thread that claimed Rick Smith is a amatuer for not having the foresight to trade Mario Williams last offseason, thus losing him for nothing. (BTW I also agree with that criticism and said we should've traded Mario last offseason when he was entering a contract year and we were entering a new defensive front)... Well now I've seen that same poster claim in this thread that this move further proves that Rick Smith is a amatuer.. what???

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.. The writing was well on the wall. Demeco shed blood, sweat, and tears for us in the past, but it was clear as day we were moving in another direction long before the season even ended. HE DID NOT FIT THE SCHEME and you can't pay a part time /role player ( which is what he was in this scheme) 6 mil a year. Before he got hurt Daryl Sharpton was the better player and played well in coverage which is what you need from a 3-4 ILB. You have to be able to cover and blitz up tue middle (See Cushing... guess what Demeco doesn't excell at? He isn't a 3-4 ILB and guess what.. despite being a 4-3 MLB with a very high cap hit who was stuck on a 3-4 team...WE STILL got compesation for him. That spells good move for us.

DocBar
03-20-2012, 09:58 PM
You are making a joke out of yourself. Ryans in a hearbeat. Not only do you have nothing to say he is less intense but anyone who has ever watched the bench has seen he was the leading force. Cushing, Mario, Antonio, everyone looked to and paid attention to DeMeco. And for a real world example since you want to bring up foxholes, it is the difference between me being made squad leader and me assigning a very "intense" kid to the pig (M-60) because at all of 125lbs he was good at it but never could have led a fire team. For all his intensity he didn't have the discipline or smarts to be a leader. But he could intensely follow orders.There's a lot of truth in this post. Unfortunately, you don't pay squad leaders $6mil to lead from the sidelines, whether from injury or down and distance. I'm a big fan of Ryans, but there was no way he was going to be on the team this season. I wish him well in Philly.

TexCanada
03-20-2012, 09:59 PM
I like it. This draft is really deep, and Ryans makes way too much for a 2 down player. I hope 'Meco does well in Philly.

GP
03-20-2012, 10:02 PM
Just logged on and the thread was already 15 pages... I tried to catch up, but after 4 straight pages of crying, I decided to cut to the end..

This was NOT a bad move.. people should be happy. I enjoyed watching DeMeco play and respected him as much as the next guy, but can we please cut through the bull here and cut emotional ties for a second.

DeMeco Ryans was WELL on his way to cutsville, if not this offseason then definetely the next. Seriously we already have a thread that claimed Rick Smith is a amatuer for not having the foresight to trade Mario Williams last offseason, thus losing him for nothing. (BTW I also agree with that criticism and said we should've traded Mario last offseason when he was entering a contract year and we were entering a new defensive front)... Well now I've seen that same poster claim in this thread that this move further proves that Rick Smith is a amatuer.. what???

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.. The writing was well on the wall. Demeco shed blood, sweat, and tears for us in the past, but it was clear as day we were moving in another direction long before the season even ended. HE DID NOT FIT THE SCHEME and you can't pay a part time /role player ( which is what he was in this scheme) 6 mil a year. Before he got hurt Daryl Sharpton was the better player and played well in coverage which is what you need from a 3-4 ILB. You have to be able to cover and blitz up tue middle (See Cushing... guess what Demeco doesn't excell at? He isn't a 3-4 ILB and guess what.. despite being a 4-3 MLB with a very high cap hit who was stuck on a 3-4 team...WE STILL got compesation for him. That spells good move for us.

Edit thread has now ballooned to 20 pages.. Im stuck in BFE typing on my phone

I was thinking people would remember the Mario Williams situation and would approve of us at least looking to the future AND getting something "today" as well.

I predicted this thread would hit 35 pages. I have since recalculated the figures and it's on track for 46. Easily.

I have and Andre Johnson battle red jersey, purchased several years ago for the explicit reason of "The guy will retire a Texan." Good decision. I would like to buy a JJ Watt jersey, but I think there exists at least a good 25% chance he, too, could be traded one day. AJ is the way to go, folks.

G27RR
03-20-2012, 10:05 PM
I like it. This draft is really deep, and Ryans makes way too much for a 2 down player. I hope 'Meco does well in Philly.

Ditto.

I'm glad they got something instead of outright cutting him. Everyone's acting like it's only a 4th - moving up in the 3rd could be the differece between gettin someone higher on their board or not.

drunkcookie
03-20-2012, 10:15 PM
Oh man, NotGaryKubiak has spoken on the issue via twitter:

"NotGaryKubiak: With Kareem taking over the on-field and locker room leadership role, we felt like we could afford to move DeMeco."

Maddict5
03-20-2012, 10:15 PM
gonna miss meco alot but it was a very solid football move to get this for a guy we were DEFINATELY gonna have to cut (and get nothing for) next yr in order to resign other (better) players. to get what we did considering meco's contract, injury history and the fact that ILB are the equivalent of rb's on the defence in terms of value. must say very nice job by rick & co on that front. any1 pissed we didnt get a 2nd doesnt understand the value of different football positions

yes demeco's leadership will be missed on the field.... but that D did good in nickel and dime without him last yr

good luck in philly meco! he wont need it though. hes still a good player

GP
03-20-2012, 10:16 PM
Ditto.

I'm glad they got something instead of outright cutting him. Everyone's acting like it's only a 4th - moving up in the 3rd could be the differece between gettin someone higher on their board or not.

From what I saw earlier, it seems we moved up 12 spots higher in the 3rd.

That's a great move up, in my opinion.

And if we wanted to get really ballsy, we could find a way to package our two 4th rounders and move up even more. I don't know what the values are of packaging two 4th rounders, but still...it's the idea that we have more ammo now. Leveraging power.

False Start
03-20-2012, 10:17 PM
I made this to say my goodbyes, lol.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/demogb333.jpg

:cool: :texflag:

Edit: typo

jgl35
03-20-2012, 10:19 PM
As the Eagle fan who hangs around this place, all I can say is thank you very much.
What I think the Eagles get here is a leader for a defense that badly needed one. Plus he plays a position of need.
Could not have gotten a better man.

House of Pain
03-20-2012, 10:20 PM
Now Tex, you've been really adamant about how "bad" Rick Smith is.

He's not young and he's been through a blown achilles, a bum shoulder, and a bum elbow. AND he's a helluva' lot more expensive than what we'll draft to replace him with.

The defense we had in 2011 includes major contributions by two rookies and several guys like Barwin and Cushing who are, IIRC, 3-year guys vs. the 6-year guys we're cutting (due to multiple reasons, not "just" the cap implications).

We have to stay young. Period. And this move gave us multiple picks we can use or bundle to stay young AND make sure we get good value.

Sometimes I think everyone has this expectation that we've arrived and should not risk anything. That 2011 defense cost a nice penny, and it's just part of the price of success.

I have faith that Wade is going to identify and find the guys he needs to offset the loss of Mario (which I think is already on our roster) and DeMeco (which I think is in the draft).

I'm only offering the rebuttal to the majority opinion here. I don't think it's as bad as people think.

This pretty much sums up how I feel. Of course, losing someone like DeMeco is irreplaceable. His leadership skills are beyond reproach.

However, I think the Texans are starting to build a culture of winning. For better or worse, they are looking to solve their long term problems by taking some short term losses to fix problems before they keep the status quo and start looking like the post-World Series Astros.

Whatever loss they have in the leadership category will be filled at some point. Someone on the roster will step into the vacuum. Whether that be Joseph, or Manning, Smith, or whoever, I think they are a disciplined bunch under Wade (and play hard with him) and this will not stop them as a unit.

GP
03-20-2012, 10:21 PM
Oh man, NotGaryKubiak has spoken on the issue via twitter:

"NotGaryKubiak: With Kareem taking over the on-field and locker room leadership role, we felt like we could afford to move DeMeco."

NotJohnMcClain begs to differ:

"NotJohnMcClain: DeMeco a tough loss, but team still has the leadership of guys like Jason Allen and Mike Brisiel to lean upon."

"NotJohnMcClain: My mistake. Sources say those 2 guys r on other teams now. Does anybody have any ideas about which players I could mention here? Thanks n advance."

badboy
03-20-2012, 10:21 PM
Combination of things, clearing salary for next year and rob Duane Brown. Also, injuries that CND has warned on. Probably looking for Someone on roster to play more. The 4th we got was originally Tampa Bay's so higher than some may be thinking. #4?

In the 4th round of the 2011 draft, the Eagles traded back from 104 to 116 with Tampa, and picked up their 2012 4th round pick. They then traded that 4th round pick from the Buccaneers, along with a flip flop of picks in the 3rd round (the Eagles move back from 77th overall to 89th overall) for Texans LB DeMeco Ryans.
http://bloggingthebeast.com/2012-nfc-east-draft-picks/eagles-2012-draft-picks/

CloakNNNdagger
03-20-2012, 10:23 PM
What about the elbow ?

Since we were not ever given any specifics, I have had to look back at some of the facts being able to surmised strictly by observation. Prior to the season, Demeco missed several weeks. He then was reported to have significant prolonged elbow swelling. Next, we saw him wearing the huge bulky brace. This brace is classified as a hinged elbow brace, usually worn to limit medial-lateral elbow joint motion as well as extension. All these bits of information to me add up that he had originally suffered an elbow dislocation with significant ligament stretching/tearing. Although many of these can heal without chronic recurrent injury, depending on the extent of the ligament damage he sustained and how it has responded, he may or may not have enough long-term instability without the brace that could require eventual surgery. The latter would be more likely if we see him back on the field this year still requiring the brace.

Fili
03-20-2012, 10:25 PM
Just logged on and the thread was already 15 pages... I tried to catch up, but after 4 straight pages of crying, I decided to cut to the end..

This was NOT a bad move.. people should be happy. I enjoyed watching DeMeco play and respected him as much as the next guy, but can we please cut through the bull here and cut emotional ties for a second.

DeMeco Ryans was WELL on his way to cutsville, if not this offseason then definetely the next. Seriously we already have a thread that claimed Rick Smith is a amatuer for not having the foresight to trade Mario Williams last offseason, thus losing him for nothing. (BTW I also agree with that criticism and said we should've traded Mario last offseason when he was entering a contract year and we were entering a new defensive front)... Well now I've seen that same poster claim in this thread that this move further proves that Rick Smith is a amatuer.. what???

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.. The writing was well on the wall. Demeco shed blood, sweat, and tears for us in the past, but it was clear as day we were moving in another direction long before the season even ended. HE DID NOT FIT THE SCHEME and you can't pay a part time /role player ( which is what he was in this scheme) 6 mil a year. Before he got hurt Daryl Sharpton was the better player and played well in coverage which is what you need from a 3-4 ILB. You have to be able to cover and blitz up tue middle (See Cushing... guess what Demeco doesn't excell at? He isn't a 3-4 ILB and guess what.. despite being a 4-3 MLB with a very high cap hit who was stuck on a 3-4 team...WE STILL got compesation for him. That spells good move for us.

Edit thread has now ballooned to 20 pages.. Im stuck in BFE typing on my phone

Turned this whole situation around for me from reading this... :bravo:

Kimmy
03-20-2012, 10:26 PM
Since we were not ever given any specifics, I have had to look back at some of the facts being able to surmised strictly by observation.

Sheldon? Is that you? :) Sorry, watching Big Bang Theory on TBS! You know I luv ya Doc!

beerlover
03-20-2012, 10:28 PM
Since we were not ever given any specifics, I have had to look back at some of the facts being able to surmised strictly by observation. Prior to the season, Demeco several weeks. He then was reported to have significant prolonged elbow swelling. Next, we saw him wearing the huge bulky brace. This brace is classified as a hinged elbow brace, usually worn to limit medial-lateral elbow joint motion as well as extension. All these bits of information to me add up that he had originally suffered an elbow dislocation with significant ligament stretching/tearing. Although many of these can heal without chronic recurrent injury, depending on the extent of the ligament damage he sustained and how it has responded, he may or may not have enough long-term instability without the brace that could require eventual surgery. The latter would be more likely if we see him back on the field this year still requiring the brace.

this would suggest that in order for this trade to be consummated he (DeMeco Ryans) would first have to clear medical doctors evaluation with clean bill of health. Maybe everyone is getting ahead of themselves?

Norg
03-20-2012, 10:28 PM
It's a 4h rounder and we swap 3rds

what was our 3rd and there 3rd ????

GP
03-20-2012, 10:32 PM
Since we were not ever given any specifics, I have had to look back at some of the facts being able to surmised strictly by observation. Prior to the season, Demeco several weeks. He then was reported to have significant prolonged elbow swelling. Next, we saw him wearing the huge bulky brace. This brace is classified as a hinged elbow brace, usually worn to limit medial-lateral elbow joint motion as well as extension. All these bits of information to me add up that he had originally suffered an elbow dislocation with significant ligament stretching/tearing. Although many of these can heal without chronic recurrent injury, depending on the extent of the ligament damage he sustained and how it has responded, he may or may not have enough long-term instability without the brace that could require eventual surgery. The latter would be more likely if we see him back on the field this year still requiring the brace.

Prior to this, he was wearing a shoulder device (and still did) to keep his shoulder form separating. Correct?

I think he's had the shoulder device/restraint (like the one Clinton Portis wore) a few seasons prior to 2011.

To me, all things considered....DeMeco gets to play defense. He'll be an every-down LBer for Philly, in a 43 Defense. Fans there will adore him for his leadership and blue collar work ethic.

Win-win situation, IMO.

plee1024
03-20-2012, 10:35 PM
what was our 3rd and there 3rd ????

we get the 77th, they get our 89th...

plus we get a 4th rounder

according to KPRC

ArlingtonTexan
03-20-2012, 10:37 PM
from an eagles message board through another message board (FWIW)

Just listening to the local radio show here in san antonio and they had ND Kalu (from san antonio) on air. He said he spoke with a some of the guys from the Texans via text and phone. He said that guys was very upset to see him go because he was a leader. He also said that they knew he wasn't the same player, that the injury he suffered was very severe. He also stated that the Texans felt he was shell of his former self therefore only getting a 4th rounder for him.

Last thing is that a few teams was in on the trade bid for D.Ryans according to Kalu, with the Cowboys having the best offer (3rd rounder). Dallas pulled out when advised by their team doctors to do so. Other teams were offering 5th and 6th rounders.

BSofA04
03-20-2012, 10:37 PM
We cleared him off our books for 2013, which clears several million for when we need to re-sign another guy in early 2013.

We received a 4th round in the upcoming draft, and we moved up 12 spots in the 3rd round in the upcoming draft.

This was "as worth it" as we were ever going to get for a guy with his salary, his injury history, and his age.

Man alive, when we let guys walk and get nothing in return...we are losers. When we actually get something for a guy...we're still losers. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

All it takes is one or two guys out of the early rounds of the 2012 draft and things will correct themselves on its own.

GP, I'm disappointed that there wasn't a better value for DeMeco. I understand why the trade was made but I think it's safe to assume that Rick floated DeMeco around and the Eagles offer was the best we could get. What a difference it would make it we could have their 3rd pick and swapped 4th picks. I sure hope Rick got the very best he could have for DeMeco.

beerlover
03-20-2012, 10:41 PM
what was our 3rd and there 3rd ????

#77 vs. #90 I believe (compensatory picks not added in) fairly substantial along with extra 4th #115. Losing star players like Mario & DeMeco means they are aiming higher in the first round, they have targeted a specific player most notably Luke Kuechly, BC 6-3 245. The top inside linebacker available in the 2012 draft.

EllisUnit
03-20-2012, 10:48 PM
Well isnt this some bull ****. WTF are these dumb ass Front office people doing ? Are they eating dope brownies from Mrs Mcnair ? All these cuts now this trade of Meco one of my fav players and ****ing Jacoby Jones is till on the roster.

**** you rick smith

Loyal to players to long who SUCK and unloyal to the ones who play their heart out for you. This is how you build a winning team, way to ****ing go.

Texan_Bill
03-20-2012, 10:48 PM
Have we slowed down now, where we can actually read each other's posts, or are we still in the mode where we think we have the "greatest post about the current subject" post ever?

Kaiser Toro
03-20-2012, 10:49 PM
from an eagles message board through another message board (FWIW)

Just listening to the local radio show here in san antonio and they had ND Kalu (from san antonio) on air. He said he spoke with a some of the guys from the Texans via text and phone. He said that guys was very upset to see him go because he was a leader. He also said that they knew he wasn't the same player, that the injury he suffered was very severe. He also stated that the Texans felt he was shell of his former self therefore only getting a 4th rounder for him.

Last thing is that a few teams was in on the trade bid for D.Ryans according to Kalu, with the Cowboys having the best offer (3rd rounder). Dallas pulled out when advised by their team doctors to do so. Other teams were offering 5th and 6th rounders.

Thanks for sharing. Prior to the Achilles there were some folks here, including myself, that thought he lost a step, due to prior injuries and having no DTs to keep him clean.

I am glad we got something for him, rather than cut him - for him and the organization. Should Kalu's comments be real, good for Smith. It still does not change my mind about his value to this team.

CloakNNNdagger
03-20-2012, 10:50 PM
Prior to this, he was wearing a shoulder device (and still did) to keep his shoulder form separating. Correct?

I think he's had the shoulder device/restraint (like the one Clinton Portis wore) a few seasons prior to 2011.To me, all things considered....DeMeco gets to play defense. He'll be an every-down LBer for Philly, in a 43 Defense. Fans there will adore him for his leadership and blue collar work ethic.

Win-win situation, IMO.

To tell you the truth, GP, I don't recollect a shoulder separation history back then. Though I do remember towards the end of last season, "shoulder" was being listed.

Texan_Bill
03-20-2012, 10:51 PM
As the Eagle fan who hangs around this place, all I can say is thank you very much.
What I think the Eagles get here is a leader for a defense that badly needed one. Plus he plays a position of need.
Could not have gotten a better man.

**** YOU!!!! I kid bro, You have been here a long time and I've always appreciated your input!! Sorry about the whole Kevin Kolb thing.....

JVL713
03-20-2012, 10:52 PM
So now we're using our first on a linebacker instead of a WR? Awesome.

Rey
03-20-2012, 10:54 PM
#77 vs. #90 I believe (compensatory picks not added in) fairly substantial along with extra 4th #115. Losing star players like Mario & DeMeco means they are aiming higher in the first round, they have targeted a specific player most notably Luke Kuechly, BC 6-3 245. The top inside linebacker available in the 2012 draft.

I disagree with that...

I see no reason to move up to get Luke...

I know Demeco wasn't the same as he was earlier in his career, but even if we get a really good ILB I still don't think they'd be on the field a whole lot more than Demeco was. Cushing is the man in the middle now. Get him a sidekick to play on first and second down and in some passing situations and be done with it...

I don't think it'd be a good idea at all to blow your load on Kuechly...

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 10:54 PM
So now we're using our first on a linebacker instead of a WR? Awesome.

The only ILB worth a 1st will be long gone by then .

hookinreds
03-20-2012, 10:55 PM
Our family is crushed, as can be understood by my avitar. The change to the 3-4 compounding his injuries has me somewhat understanding the teams decision, but this is going to be a tough one. As Capt. Miller said to Pvt. Ryan (no pun intended), I'll say it to Smith "EARN IT"

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 10:55 PM
I disagree with that...

I see no reason to move up to get Luke...

I know Demeco wasn't the same as he was earlier in his career, but even if we get a really good ILB I still don't think they'd be on the field a whole lot more than Demeco was. Cushing is the man in the middle now. Get him a sidekick to play on first and second down and in some passing situations and be done with it...

I don't think it'd be a good idea at all to blow your load on Kuechly...

Bring back Dobbins .

Playoffs
03-20-2012, 10:56 PM
from an eagles message board through another message board (FWIW)

Just listening to the local radio show here in san antonio and they had ND Kalu (from san antonio) on air. He said he spoke with a some of the guys from the Texans via text and phone. He said that guys was very upset to see him go because he was a leader. He also said that they knew he wasn't the same player, that the injury he suffered was very severe. He also stated that the Texans felt he was shell of his former self therefore only getting a 4th rounder for him.

Last thing is that a few teams was in on the trade bid for D.Ryans according to Kalu, with the Cowboys having the best offer (3rd rounder). Dallas pulled out when advised by their team doctors to do so. Other teams were offering 5th and 6th rounders. MSR, thanks for posting.

Had to feel injuries played a part in it. Coaches will have to regain the locker room, imo.

EllisUnit
03-20-2012, 10:58 PM
:kubepalm: all my years of following this team and i have never seen the FO so cut throat. How come they couldnt be like this with Carr, Travis Johnson and all the other bad players we help onto for to long. Now they are like this with our good players who have played their hearts out for us. It will be sad not seeing him pump the defense up before game time anymore, really sad.

steelbtexan
03-20-2012, 11:03 PM
Vinny, I, too, have come to love and respect Demeco. But, I believe his beast days are over. I know many are not convinced of the trend that Achilles-ruptured NFL players have taken following repair, a subject that I reviewed extensively last year. But that player's "best" year typically occurs his first season back from injury. From there, the trend is all down hill, with the strongest downturn seen in the LB position specifically. The Texans may have resigned to this. Philly is more likely to have taken on an albatross than a savior.

Hope you're right

I will miss Demeco but Texans management appears to be ahead of the curve on this. (Wade) In the long run the defense will be alright. (I trust Wade)

Thanks for the info on Butler.

Big Lou
03-20-2012, 11:03 PM
Well isnt this some bull ****. WTF are these dumb ass Front office people doing ? Are they eating dope brownies from Mrs Mcnair ? All these cuts now this trade of Meco one of my fav players and ****ing Jacoby Jones is till on the roster.

**** you rick smith

Loyal to players to long who SUCK and unloyal to the ones who play their heart out for you. This is how you build a winning team, way to ****ing go.

We can't cut Jacoby until June.

Norg
03-20-2012, 11:04 PM
im loving it finally "name players" finally dont get a free pass just because they did great things there rookie or 2nd season

pbat488
03-20-2012, 11:13 PM
:kubepalm: all my years of following this team and i have never seen the FO so cut throat. How come they couldnt be like this with Carr, Travis Johnson and all the other bad players we help onto for to long. Now they are like this with our good players who have played their hearts out for us. It will be sad not seeing him pump the defense up before game time anymore, really sad.

it's freaking business, not a family daycare.

demeco was a great player and person for our organization but the front office decided he wasn't worth what we were paying him or that he fit into our defensive system and got some return on him; something that so many of you bitched and moaned that smith and co. never did with our players that leave.

look back fondly on his time here, remember the good times and things he did, and wish him luck. quit crying about it.

Pantherstang84
03-20-2012, 11:16 PM
it's freaking business, not a family daycare.

demeco was a great player and person for our organization but the front office decided he wasn't worth what we were paying him or that he fit into our defensive system and got some return on him; something that so many of you bitched and moaned that smith and co. never did with our players that leave.

look back fondly on his time here, remember the good times and things he did, and wish him luck. quit crying about it.

Amen. I am actually happy for Demeco. No more seeing him on the sidelines during passing downs. That was so sad to watch last year.

Kimmy
03-20-2012, 11:20 PM
I still think Mario is taking digs at Houston

Mario Williams ‏ @bbwolf90 (https://twitter.com/#!/bbwolf90) Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@DRyans59 do ya thang bro its a blessing in disguise! Crazy world

Runner
03-20-2012, 11:23 PM
You just lost a MLB as well as an OLB, RT, RG, CB# 2B and 3rd string QB and we're going to target a WR? :kubepalm:

This isn't to go after anyone. Texans simply clearing cap room. We'll go defense heavy again in the draft and be more improved.

Right. They are losing solid players at all of those positions, they don't have a number 2 receiver, and their #1 may not be healthy all year given his recent history.

Cutting Ryans gave them another position to fill and apparently cost the team cap money this year.

I guess they will rely on Jacoby to "get it" this year and be a stud receiver, since they have so many holes to fill now. Maybe Smith and Kubiak will finally "get it" next season too.

Honoring Earl 34
03-20-2012, 11:24 PM
I still think Mario is taking digs at Houston

Mario Williams ‏ @bbwolf90 (https://twitter.com/#!/bbwolf90) Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@DRyans59 do ya thang bro its a blessing in disguise! Crazy world

It could be but Mario was the highest paid player and the lead dog so he has nobody to blame but himself .

DocBar
03-20-2012, 11:27 PM
I still think Mario is taking digs at Houston

Mario Williams ‏ @bbwolf90 (https://twitter.com/#!/bbwolf90) Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@DRyans59 do ya thang bro its a blessing in disguise! Crazy worldI'm sure he is taking digs. All the talking heads are gushing about how great he is and our FO wisely let him find the door. It must really chap his ass that we didn't realize how great he is and just let him go.
I'd really, really, really like to know what kind, if any, of offer we made to him.

ensign_lee
03-20-2012, 11:30 PM
We can't cut Jacoby until June.

That's news to me. Why not?

Big Lou
03-20-2012, 11:36 PM
I still think Mario is taking digs at Houston

Mario Williams ‏ @bbwolf90 (https://twitter.com/#!/bbwolf90) Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@DRyans59 do ya thang bro its a blessing in disguise! Crazy world

Blessing in disguise? What do you know Mario, you got paid almost a million dollars a sack, and you rode the pine a whole lot, what was so bad about Houston. Buffalo is gonna be so awesome, enjoy your big contract, I'm starting to love the move of letting Mario go.

Texan_Bill
03-20-2012, 11:37 PM
I still think Mario is taking digs at Houston

Mario Williams ‏ @bbwolf90 (https://twitter.com/#!/bbwolf90) Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@DRyans59 do ya thang bro its a blessing in disguise! Crazy world

Disagree Kimmy!!! Mario tweeted plenty of good things about his time in H-Town.... I think his shot (and towards "do yo ya thing") is more a shot at at Rick Smith and had nothing to do with "taking digs at Houston"......

Straight-up.... read Marioi's twitter timeline.... he loved his time here and the Demeco timeline isn't really that surprising when you take it ALL in context......

We could go 6-10 next season................ NO ****!!!!

Big Lou
03-20-2012, 11:38 PM
That's news to me. Why not?

I believe we save cap space if we wait until June.

CretorFrigg
03-20-2012, 11:39 PM
I still think Mario is taking digs at Houston

Mario Williams ‏ @bbwolf90 (https://twitter.com/#!/bbwolf90) Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@DRyans59 do ya thang bro its a blessing in disguise! Crazy world

My 4 year old has better grammar.

Hervoyel
03-20-2012, 11:41 PM
:kubepalm: all my years of following this team and i have never seen the FO so cut throat. How come they couldnt be like this with Carr, Travis Johnson and all the other bad players we help onto for to long. Now they are like this with our good players who have played their hearts out for us. It will be sad not seeing him pump the defense up before game time anymore, really sad.

This. A thousand times this.

I can accept it, I just wish it had been here a few years ago. That 2006 draft is fading fast now. Mario gone, Meco gone. Spencer gone right away, and Winston gone too. Owen Daniels is the last man standing from that draft.

Kimmy
03-20-2012, 11:41 PM
Disagree Kimmy!!! Mario tweeted plenty of good things about his time in H-Town.... I think his shot (and towards "do yo ya thing") is more a shot at at Rick Smith and had nothing to do with "taking digs at Houston"......

Straight-up.... read Marioi's twitter timeline.... he loved his time here and the Demeco timeline isn't really that surprising when you take it ALL in context......

We could go 6-10 next season................ NO ****!!!!

LOL We could, we could!!

I know what you're typing. I do feel the one he has been putting towards the fans, but not so much for the front office.

But I guess a lot of us are there from time to time

mussop
03-20-2012, 11:44 PM
I have not disagreed with this part. My feelings were geared more towards the fact that the compensation we got for him was very little. Just because he isn't a great value to our defense doesn't mean that he isn't to other teams. Sorry, but you're not going to convince me that a 4th rounder was the absolute best that we'd ever get for Demeco Ryans. He is still very capable of being a Pro Bowl LB to a team that runs the 4-3.

Actually we got the value of a mid 3rd round pick for Ryans. Going by the draft value chart anyway. The value of the fourth round pick we got is 145 points and the value of moving up from 89 to 77 is 60 points so that comes out o 205 points total which is the equivalent of the 13th pick in the 3rd round.


Lots of options

Its possible now that we could combine our 3rd (77th, 205 points) and their 4th (89th, 145 points) and move up as far as the 55th pick.

So we would end up having the same amount of picks but 3 in the top 58. Not bad!

OR

Package our first with their fourth and move up to around the 20th pick.

OR

Package our first with our third and move up to around 18.

The Cush
03-20-2012, 11:46 PM
I still think Mario is taking digs at Houston

Mario Williams ‏ @bbwolf90 (https://twitter.com/#!/bbwolf90) Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@DRyans59 do ya thang bro its a blessing in disguise! Crazy world

Mario Williams ‏ @bbwolf90

@cgustkey bc I told him its a blessing in disguise means hell b fine and succeed. Dang is the rain in houston making people miserable

Mario is getting a lot of hate on Twitter from people in Houston asking him why he didn't take a massive paycut to stay here. Pretty ridiculous

Hervoyel
03-20-2012, 11:46 PM
Disagree Kimmy!!! Mario tweeted plenty of good things about his time in H-Town.... I think his shot (and towards "do yo ya thing") is more a shot at at Rick Smith and had nothing to do with "taking digs at Houston"......

Straight-up.... read Marioi's twitter timeline.... he loved his time here and the Demeco timeline isn't really that surprising when you take it ALL in context......

We could go 6-10 next season................ NO ****!!!!


We go 6-10 following 9-7 seasons. I'm sure after a 10-6 we can at least pull out a 7-9.

Allstar
03-20-2012, 11:49 PM
We go 6-10 following 9-7 seasons. I'm sure after a 10-6 we can at least pull out a 7-9.

:lol::kitten:

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-20-2012, 11:51 PM
It's good that we got something for him rather than cut him next season and get nothing. DeMeco's time here was running out the second he injured his achilles.

mussop
03-20-2012, 11:53 PM
The only ILB worth a 1st will be long gone by then .

Don't rule out Hightower. He has a lot of value as he can play ILB well and has the ability to rush the QB from the outside.

Runner
03-20-2012, 11:54 PM
We go 6-10 following 9-7 seasons. I'm sure after a 10-6 we can at least pull out a 7-9.

I'd prefer 8-8. I enjoy posts built around the awkward phrase "non losing season".

Texan_Bill
03-20-2012, 11:54 PM
We go 6-10 following 9-7 seasons. I'm sure after a 10-6 we can at least pull out a 7-9.

:heh:

Texan_Bill
03-20-2012, 11:56 PM
I'd prefer 8-8. I enjoy posts built around the awkward phrase "non losing season".

But kind sir, we've had a non-losing season over the last "x" years!!!!!!!

Shaft75
03-20-2012, 11:59 PM
:heh:

QUICK... BILL...
Show me an smiley that you haven't used

Kaiser Toro
03-21-2012, 12:12 AM
I can accept it, I just wish it had been here a few years ago. That 2006 draft is fading fast now. Mario gone, Meco gone. Spencer gone right away, and Winston gone too. Owen Daniels is the last man standing from that draft.

Youth movement on the way, thankfully we got the right to coach the kids up. :kitten:

Vinny
03-21-2012, 12:16 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d814ab060/WK-12-Sound-FX-DeMeco-Ryans- DeMeco wired. So long

Bulls on Parade
03-21-2012, 12:19 AM
Youth movement on the way, thankfully we got the right to coach the kids up. :kitten:
Maybe they can get lucky and draft a great player at ILB for the 3-4 defense. The way Brooks Reed flourished as a rookie in Wade Phillips' system at OLB gives me some hope they may hit gold in the upcoming draft. That Boston College linebacker -- please tell me more about him? Where is he projected to go in the draft and will the Texans have to trade up for him? Sorry to bring up the draft but losing DeMeco Ryans hurts me a lot and I'm trying to find the positives in all of this.

WolverineFan
03-21-2012, 12:19 AM
Agreed but teams that have great drafts don't let the entire draft class get away in one off-season, especially after making the playoffs for the first time in franchise history and the excitement in the city for the Texans was at an all-time high. Adios to that amazing 2006 draft. We can now put Charley Casserly behind us once and for all. When I watch Owen Daniels play I'll just hang on to the one gem we were able to keep.

And are you going to ignore all the gems we've acquired since? Brown, Barwin, Watt, Reed, Foster, etc. They all say hi.

This is the way of the world in the NFL. You cannot keep everybody. If you think 2 guys are expendable then you dump them so you can keep a guy who isn't. It's a business.

Sure I'd love to keep all of our homegrown talent, but there's a salary cap and you have to make sacrifices. Everyone we've lost so far is replaceable.

Bulls on Parade
03-21-2012, 12:22 AM
And are you going to ignore all the gems we've acquired since? Brown, Barwin, Watt, Reed, Foster, etc. They all say hi.

This is the way of the world in the NFL. You cannot keep everybody. If you think 2 guys are expendable then you dump them so you can keep a guy who isn't. It's a business.

Sure I'd love to keep all of our homegrown talent, but there's a salary cap and you have to make sacrifices. Everyone we've lost so far is replaceable.
If the Texans keep drafting well then it's all a moot point. The team will still be good and make another playoff run. They'll be good for a long time since you're talking about younger players. Let's hope that continues. Like I said, I'll see how the draft plays out. I may feel better heading into training camp.

ArlingtonTexan
03-21-2012, 12:25 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d814ab060/WK-12-Sound-FX-DeMeco-Ryans- DeMeco wired. So long

Thought he wasn't that intense??? LOL

mominss1
03-21-2012, 12:34 AM
The trade makes sense, better get something before we cut him next year. But, i don't understand getting rid of winston this year. Why did we just cut winston and why didn't we trade him for maybe a 4th or 5th. Either that or we could have just kept him this year and cut him next year when we needed to make real space for other FA. Stupid GM, you don't need to cut all your players this year just to create cap for next year.

aussie_texan
03-21-2012, 12:35 AM
The trade makes sense, better get something before we cut him next year. But, i don't understand getting rid of winston this year. Why did we just cut winston and why didn't we trade him for maybe a 4th or 5th. Either that or we could have just kept him this year and cut him next year when we needed to make real space for other FA. Stupid GM, you don't need to cut all your players this year just to create cap for next year.

by trading him, you don't get the same reduction in cap as you would by cutting him.

we were pretty up against it cap wise

disaacks3
03-21-2012, 12:39 AM
Jesu-christo...I come home to THIS!! Damn, but the bloodbath continues. If Rick Smith isn't a drafting, free-agent-signing machine, we are hosed this (and maybe next year).

Were they thinking the cap was going to be that much higher or what??


These are faces of the franchise were talking about here. I expected Mario gone, but it's like they're giving up and playing the "rebuilding year" card right after jacking up ticket prices.

It's getting harder and harder to put a good face on this off-season. Plus, I've got three obsolete jerseys te replace. *sigh*

Runner
03-21-2012, 12:40 AM
If the Texans keep drafting well then it's all a moot point. The team will still be good and make another playoff run. They'll be good for a long time since you're talking about younger players. Let's hope that continues. Like I said, I'll see how the draft plays out. I may feel better heading into training camp.

It's not a moot point. The Texans were supposed to contend for the Super Bowl next year. With all of the holes they now have to fill, how many Super Bowl quality rookie or first time starters does the great Smithiak have to field next season? Or does "building through the draft" mean they get three years to improve on last year's team?

infantrycak
03-21-2012, 12:48 AM
by trading him, you don't get the same reduction in cap as you would by cutting him.

we were pretty up against it cap wise

I don't understand why people keep saying this. The only distinction between a trade and a cut on the cap is if the cut is a June 1st cut. The total cap hit is the same although sometimes you can spread it over two years. Trading him eliminates that option.

For the record, I think this was stupid.

michaelm
03-21-2012, 12:52 AM
I don't understand why people keep saying this. The only distinction between a trade and a cut on the cap is if the cut is a June 1st cut. The total cap hit is the same although sometimes you can spread it over two years. Trading him eliminates that option.

For the record, I think this was stupid.

Can they still designate Winston as a June 1st cut? If so, does that make the cut more understandable? I'd think it would, but I still wouldn't understand the timing.

fiasco west
03-21-2012, 12:57 AM
Right. They are losing solid players at all of those positions, they don't have a number 2 receiver, and their #1 may not be healthy all year given his recent history.

Cutting Ryans gave them another position to fill and apparently cost the team cap money this year.

I guess they will rely on Jacoby to "get it" this year and be a stud receiver, since they have so many holes to fill now. Maybe Smith and Kubiak will finally "get it" next season too.

This is what people saying it's a good move don't get.

In the NFL there are injuries. Deep teams win championships. We've lost quality starters and are now going to expect rookies and backups to fill those roles?

The Texans should be drafting a WR in the first then working on the depth of the team. Lets not forget we have lost...

A pro-bowl LB
Starting Right side of the line
#2 CB
AND NOW Demeco.

We've just lost 5 starters folks. Yes I'm counting Allen as a starter since him and Kareem shared spots.

So now they either need to get working in FA and fill these holes including WR and hope that they draft more stud rookies.

Instead we could have taken project LBs and have them learn under Meco but now we are going to throw more guys into the fire and hope we hit big.

Dutchrudder
03-21-2012, 01:02 AM
I don't understand why people keep saying this. The only distinction between a trade and a cut on the cap is if the cut is a June 1st cut. The total cap hit is the same although sometimes you can spread it over two years. Trading him eliminates that option.

For the record, I think this was stupid.

^ This.

The Winston thing looks even worse now. Rick was able to trade a broke down part-cyborg MLB for a 4th and change, but couldn't get anything for a RT that started 60 straight games. Seriously? I mean wtf? If you're willing to ship Ryans off for a 4th, you damn well better be capable of shipping off Winston for a pick. Even if it's just a 6th. I don't think we were that bad off that we had to cut him immediately at the time. Seems like a missed opportunity to get another 6th at the very least. He was a valuable asset and the market proved that.

As per the contracts, the reason the Eagles are willing to take the "risk" of Ryans' contract is that none of his salary is guaranteed on their side. The guarantees on his deal have already been paid out in salary and signing bonus. The cap hit the Texans have this year is the remainder of his signing bonus. The Eagles likely will be able to cut him before the beginning of any future season without penalty. So if he doesn't work out for them next year, they can drop him. Good risk/reward opportunity for them.

I'm sorry to see Demeco go and I will miss him, but honestly, Philadelphia is a better situation for him. He will be more effective in a 4-3 defense than a 3-4, and will prove his worth there. Even if he ends up being a pro-bowler next year, I won't be able to say that he would have done as well in our system. It's just a matter of matching strengths to system and unfortunately our new system doesn't suit him as well.

Good luck Demeco, I hope we see you in February! :goodluck:

Dutchrudder
03-21-2012, 01:05 AM
Can they still designate Winston as a June 1st cut? If so, does that make the cut more understandable? I'd think it would, but I still wouldn't understand the timing.

Winston would have had to be designated a June 1st cut when the move was submitted to the NFL offices. That sort of thing isn't usually reported on, so we have no way of knowing if he was or not. In the grand scheme of things, the difference is negligible. The remaining cap hit from him was 1 million per year for 2 years. Unless we need that money in 2012 for signing someone, it won't hurt us at all. If that space is left over at the end of the season, we can roll it into 2013's cap.

Runner
03-21-2012, 01:05 AM
This is what people saying it's a good move don't get.

In the NFL there are injuries. Deep teams win championships. We've lost quality starters and are now going to expect rookies and backups to fill those roles?

The Texans should be drafting a WR in the first then working on the depth of the team. Lets not forget we have lost...

A pro-bowl LB
Starting Right side of the line
#2 CB
AND NOW Demeco.

We've just lost 5 starters folks. Yes I'm counting Allen as a starter since him and Kareem shared spots.

So now they either need to get working in FA and fill these holes including WR and hope that they draft more stud rookies.

Instead we could have taken project LBs and have them learn under Meco but now we are going to throw more guys into the fire and hope we hit big.

Speaking of quality depth, they could also lose Tate and Dreesen.

=============

Each of these moves by itself, even two moves considered in tandem, might be defensible. Taken as a whole, the front office looks clueless this off-season.

GhostRaider2007
03-21-2012, 01:08 AM
It's not a moot point. The Texans were supposed to contend for the Super Bowl next year. With all of the holes they now have to fill, how many Super Bowl quality rookie or first time starters does the great Smithiak have to field next season? Or does "building through the draft" mean they get three years to improve on last year's team?

This is where I am at with my line of thinking at this point in time.

Though I still think we make the playoffs unfortunately my hopes at seeing this team contend for a Super Bowl next season have all but vanished.

Just way to much turnover at starting and leadership positions on this team at this point in time.

michaelm
03-21-2012, 01:16 AM
This is where I am at with my line of thinking at this point in time.

Though I still think we make the playoffs unfortunately my hopes at seeing this team contend for a Super Bowl next season have all but vanished.

Just way to much turnover at starting and leadership positions on this team at this point in time.

I can't reasonably disagree with you, however, I think it's too early to draw a conclusion.
Still a lot of time left before camp starts.

A lot of what has happened has made so little sense, that part of me thinks (hopes) that they have some kind of plan that will make things seem more logical. Maybe a free agent at a key position? Yes it it wishful thinking, I admit, but even a single free agent signing could help to straighten up this tailspin to a degree. Now, if they only had money to sign someone...

michaelm
03-21-2012, 01:18 AM
Related to my post above, I heard several comments on Sirius radio today about how slow the LB market has been in free agency. Signing one decent ILB might help to ease this trade. Providing that there's money for it.
Anyone know if there are any LBs out there that have played for Wade before?

Rey
03-21-2012, 01:34 AM
I was not feeling good about the season, but now I'm pumped. I think the front office is going to be aggressive this off season.

aussie_texan
03-21-2012, 01:41 AM
I was not feeling good about the season, but now I'm pumped. I think the front office is going to be aggressive this off season.

it has certainly been aggressive

Lucky
03-21-2012, 01:44 AM
Anyone know if there are any LBs out there that have played for Wade before?
Bradie James (http://www.nfl.com/player/bradiejames/2505639/profile) is a free agent.

LonerATO
03-21-2012, 01:56 AM
^ This.

The Winston thing looks even worse now. Rick was able to trade a broke down part-cyborg MLB for a 4th and change, but couldn't get anything for a RT that started 60 straight games. Seriously? I mean wtf? If you're willing to ship Ryans off for a 4th, you damn well better be capable of shipping off Winston for a pick. Even if it's just a 6th. I don't think we were that bad off that we had to cut him immediately at the time. Seems like a missed opportunity to get another 6th at the very least. He was a valuable asset and the market proved that.

As per the contracts, the reason the Eagles are willing to take the "risk" of Ryans' contract is that none of his salary is guaranteed on their side. The guarantees on his deal have already been paid out in salary and signing bonus. The cap hit the Texans have this year is the remainder of his signing bonus. The Eagles likely will be able to cut him before the beginning of any future season without penalty. So if he doesn't work out for them next year, they can drop him. Good risk/reward opportunity for them.

I'm sorry to see Demeco go and I will miss him, but honestly, Philadelphia is a better situation for him. He will be more effective in a 4-3 defense than a 3-4, and will prove his worth there. Even if he ends up being a pro-bowler next year, I won't be able to say that he would have done as well in our system. It's just a matter of matching strengths to system and unfortunately our new system doesn't suit him as well.

Good luck Demeco, I hope we see you in February! :goodluck:

Texans would still have to eat a good amount of Winston's contract if they traded him, but they could have traded him for a 3/4th rounder. Maybe moving Ryans first would make that difference up with what they would owe Winston, but you never know.

GhostRaider2007
03-21-2012, 02:59 AM
From Jerome Solomon

Link:
http://blog.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2012/03/texans-trade-demeco-ryans-players-arent-happy/
Texans trade DeMeco Ryans; Players aren’t happy

This one stings.

Players liked Eric Winston. I even half-joked that releasing Matt Schaub would not have been a more popular move in the locker room than the release of Winston last week.

But trading DeMeco Ryans to the Philadelphia Eagles was a body blow to Texans players that will take some time to absorb.

Football-wise there is a significant drop-off from Ryans to Darryl Sharpton. Significant. Leadership-wise, Ryans’ contribution can’t be overstated. Brian Cushing may have been the team’s top defensive player, but he doesn’t bring to the defense what Ryans did. Not yet.

Here are a few text messages from current or former players:

“WTF!! You know what they are up to?”

“Damn, man, and they talk about loyalty.”

“Cold-blooded, man, cold-blooded. But Meco will be better off for it. He’s going to dominate in Philly.”

“They don’t what leadership means, do they? Bet they won’t finish No. 2 in defense next season.”

“It’s an ugly business. We’re not the same team without him. Gonna take a lot to replace Meco.”

Players went onto Twitter with public comments as well.

Owen Daniels: “Seriously? Meco too?”

Brian Cushing: “I wouldn’t be half the player or person I am today without @DRyans59 this one hurts. Philly got a unbelievable player and leader today. #59″

Glover Quin: “Honored to have had the chance to play with and learn from @DRyans59.. True leader and great person… Preciate you bro.”

Eric Winston (to Owen Daniels): “Watch you(r) back kid. @owendaniels you’re the last ’06 guy left.”

The Texans don’t typically release statements on players they cut or trade. Obviously this is one of the exceptions.

Texans general manager Rick Smith’s statement on Ryans:

“DeMeco Ryans contributed significantly toward helping us build the foundation we hope will bring a world championship to the city of Houston. His professionalism and leadership cannot be over-exaggerated. This move was mutually beneficial for the Texans immediate and long-term goals, DeMeco’s career, and the Philadelphia Eagles. We appreciate all the hard work and effort DeMeco invested in our organization and wish him only the best moving forward. He is a class act.”

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 03:34 AM
That article by Solomon makes me sick. All those players commenting.

They are absolutely, 100% damn right. UGH.

kiwitexansfan
03-21-2012, 03:36 AM
You don't just cut your locker room leader.

You don't.

Super disappointed in this move.

Kubiak has his work cut to get the players on side after all this crap.

Vinny
03-21-2012, 03:39 AM
^ This.

The Winston thing looks even worse now. Rick was able to trade a broke down part-cyborg MLB for a 4th and change, but couldn't get anything for a RT that started 60 straight games. Seriously? I mean wtf? If you're willing to ship Ryans off for a 4th, you damn well better be capable of shipping off Winston for a pick. Even if it's just a 6th. I don't think we were that bad off that we had to cut him immediately at the time. Seems like a missed opportunity to get another 6th at the very least. He was a valuable asset and the market proved that.

Winston "failed" our physical...but if you really listen to Winston it was a sham. We did it because we have cap problems. Apparently he passed KC's no problem, just like he said he would. Rick Smith's moves seem a bit disoriented so far this offseason. Its almost like we decided we have become "good enough" and now its time to get younger.

A source told FOXSports.com that Winston was cut under the “failed physical” designation by the Texans. Winston, though, told FOXSports.com that the billing stems from his having undergone arthroscopic ankle surgery in February.

In a text message, Winston said he will be medically cleared in two weeks. Winston also said he would be fully healed by now had he undergone the minor procedure in January.

At that time, Winston had no idea he wouldn’t be playing for the Texans in 2012. He had started every game for the past five seasons and was considered one of the league’s better right tackles. But with a $5.5 million base salary for 2012 and the Texans having salary-cap issues, Winston became expendable. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Eric-Winston-Houston-Texans-waived-for-failed-physical-031312

ItsMyFault
03-21-2012, 04:01 AM
That Jerome article with the players reactions says it all.

I'm disappointed in this organization.

Marcus
03-21-2012, 04:30 AM
What you're obviously not comprehending here is that most of us here are loyal fans of some of these players. You might be right, Ryans may no longer the player he was, he was too expensive, he's injury prone, and etc. But that doesn't mean we're all children because we're upset that one of the fan favorites and leaders of this team is now gone. This is what sports is about. The next time we cut/trade someone, I'll make sure to calculate the salary cap savings and rejoice at the savings and possible mid-round picks that are now expected to come in and take us to the Super Bowl. Now that's a joke.

Well, I've only read about half of this abomination of a thread, but this one is about the stupidest post I've read yet.

There is absolutely no place for loyalist sentimentality in a salary-cap NFL.

And GP is exactly right. Bunch of whiny, butt hurt children in here.

DocBar
03-21-2012, 04:37 AM
It's not a moot point. The Texans were supposed to contend for the Super Bowl next year. With all of the holes they now have to fill, how many Super Bowl quality rookie or first time starters does the great Smithiak have to field next season? Or does "building through the draft" mean they get three years to improve on last year's team?Where are these massive holes to fill? The only hole I see worth seriously worrying about is the hole left in depth at LB, which can be reasonably dealt with in the draft.
You guys need to quit with the :overreact: and :firehair: and start with the :firework: and :gotexans1.
With these moves, we got to re-sign our core FA's this season and get to re-sign our core FA's next season.

TheMatrix31
03-21-2012, 04:52 AM
Depth at OL, LB, and CB.

I'm not holding my breath when it comes to re-signing FA's this year and in coming years. Not if we have the same capologists working under Rick Smith.

You should never, EVVVVVVVVER be forced to trade a team leader for nothing just to clear money.

SW H-TOWN
03-21-2012, 05:03 AM
Yep, it sucks Ryans got cut but we'll be alright. Ryans got traded and the FO will probably cut a player or two a year from now so the Texans will be able to sign players who they see as more important to the team's success.

DocBar
03-21-2012, 05:10 AM
Depth at OL, LB, and CB.

I'm not holding my breath when it comes to re-signing FA's this year and in coming years. Not if we have the same capologists working under Rick Smith.

You should never, EVVVVVVVVER be forced to trade a team leader for nothing just to clear money.It's my opinion that these moves were made to enable the FO to keep next years crop of FA's. Hopefully, they work out extensions this offseason with Brown and Cushing and never let them even sniff the open market.

kiwitexansfan
03-21-2012, 05:17 AM
It's my opinion that these moves were made to enable the FO to keep next years crop of FA's. Hopefully, they work out extensions this offseason with Brown and Cushing and never let them even sniff the open market.

This is true, but still hurts to lose Ryans.

GhostRaider2007
03-21-2012, 06:14 AM
Video - Smith and Watt on the Ryans trade:

Link:
http://videobam.com/esiWp

Maddict5
03-21-2012, 06:49 AM
just out of curiousity, can anyone remember a ILB/MLB being traded in (fairly) recent history for more than what we got for meco? i honestly cant think of one right now

Runner
03-21-2012, 07:18 AM
Where are these massive holes to fill? The only hole I see worth seriously worrying about is the hole left in depth at LB, which can be reasonably dealt with in the draft.
You guys need to quit with the :overreact: and :firehair: and start with the :firework: and :gotexans1.
With these moves, we got to re-sign our core FA's this season and get to re-sign our core FA's next season.

We've lost starters at several positions. "Next man up" is a valid strategy if the team strategy is to win through jingoism, but I don't think it is a good plan to think so many of this team's second stringers are good enough to take them to the super bowl.

As far as questioning some of the team's moves, I can't just convince myself every move is great just because the Texans made it. Many posters can; that difference leads to discussions rather than a bunch of rah rah threads.

I ran the numbers. About half of the GMs in the league are below average. I don't think the fact that he works for the Texans guarantees that Smith is a great GM.

The fact is they are cutting players because of the cap. That means they would probably keep some of them if they could. That leads me to the conclusion they are cutting players that are better than their replacements, i.e. the team is getting worse.

Errant Hothy
03-21-2012, 07:39 AM
That article by Solomon makes me sick. All those players commenting.

They are absolutely, 100% damn right. UGH.

And yet none of them came to the team looking to reduce their pay to keep a player like Demeco around. They, and at the very least their agents, more than likely knew the cap situation, and if they didn't they knew it after Winston was cut. Solidarity is cool in all untill it threatens your paycheck, than it's so long and good luck.

The difference in reaction from a player leaving in free agency to one being traded is all the evidence any of us should need to see.

This is a business, from both sides perspective, and to treat it like anything else is silly from both sides. That's way loyalty from the fans should be to the team first and the players second.

bckey
03-21-2012, 08:07 AM
We've lost starters at several positions. "Next man up" is a valid strategy if the team strategy is to win through jingoism, but I don't think it is a good plan to think so many of this team's second stringers are good enough to take them to the super bowl.

As far as questioning some of the team's moves, I can't just convince myself every move is great just because the Texans made it. Many posters can; that difference leads to discussions rather than a bunch of rah rah threads.

I ran the numbers. About half of the GMs in the league are below average. I don't think the fact that he works for the Texans guarantees that Smith is a great GM.

The fact is they are cutting players because of the cap. That means they would probably keep some of them if they could. That leads me to the conclusion they are cutting players that are better than their replacements, i.e. the team is getting worse.

This is a really good post Runner. Pretty much sums up my thoughts. You said it much better than I could have.

DocBar
03-21-2012, 08:08 AM
We've lost starters at several positions. "Next man up" is a valid strategy if the team strategy is to win through jingoism, but I don't think it is a good plan to think so many of this team's second stringers are good enough to take them to the super bowl.

As far as questioning some of the team's moves, I can't just convince myself every move is great just because the Texans made it. Many posters can; that difference leads to discussions rather than a bunch of rah rah threads.

I ran the numbers. About half of the GMs in the league are below average. I don't think the fact that he works for the Texans guarantees that Smith is a great GM.

The fact is they are cutting players because of the cap. That means they would probably keep some of them if they could. That leads me to the conclusion they are cutting players that are better than their replacements, i.e. the team is getting worse. As has been stated, you can't have stars that are paid like stars at every position. Smith has to make choices that are sometimes hard. Read back a few pages to the post I made asking who would you rather keep? IMO, that outlook makes the current moves no-brainers. The Texans seem to be setting themselves up to be able to keep their best talent, in the prime of their careers. The flip side is getting rid of some players who might be popular with the fans, the clubhouse or both.The business rears its ugly head.
Besides, I honestly don't see the huge drop off in talent that a lot of people are raving about. Winston and Briseil are average players at their respective positions. Mario is above average, but certainly not the elite player he's being paid to be. Ryan is on the the downhill side of his career, and it could very easily be a steep hill.

drunkcookie
03-21-2012, 08:12 AM
I think people are overestimating how much the Texans could have gotten for 'Meco... Next year will be his seventh season and he has been beaten to hell... His achilis in '10, then he's got that transformer arm thingie because of his elbow... Teams will look at that as a negative, and it will effect how much they're willing to dish out for him...

IMO Philly desperately needed a MLB on that D, as i keep hearing it was probably the biggest weekness for them... Even with how much they felt they needed DeMeco it appears what the Texans got was about as far as Philly would go...

I would think, unless Al Davis were still around, that the highest additional pick the Texans could get for The 59 would be a 3rd... Having their 3rd round position go up 12 spots is pretty good, along with additional pick in the 4th...

Thorn
03-21-2012, 08:21 AM
Wow, what a thread to start your day with. I didn't log on here last night and just watched NatGeo stuff on TV. This trade is a complete surprise to me. I'm very sorry to see DeMeco go, he was a good player and a nice man.

But it's pro sports and this kind of stuff happens all the time. You should never get to attached to a player, just stay attached to the team. I still watched the Oilers when Earl left town, and I'll keep watching the Texans no matter who the players are. Hell, if we can watch a bunch of fools with Carr as their QB move around the field like crabs, we can watch anything. :lol:

Good luck to you DeMeco, and thank you for your time here.

Mike Kerns
03-21-2012, 08:28 AM
Sad to see him go, but I believe this was the right move.

Rey
03-21-2012, 08:38 AM
The fact is they are cutting players because of the cap. That means they would probably keep some of them if they could. That leads me to the conclusion they are cutting players that are better than their replacements, i.e. the team is getting worse.

That's not necessarily true. There is a such thing as cheaper and better.

TimeKiller
03-21-2012, 08:45 AM
Well, looks like I need a new jersey. #90 bit the dust and now my #59 is out of commission too.

At least I'll keep the 59 lol...I loved DR, the toughness, the leadership....I hate to say it but Demeco was getting paid like the best player on the defense and he wasn't even...like....5th best. Cushing, Jjo, Manning, Watt, Smith, Barwin, Reed....hell, JACKSON even played a more significant role than Ryans. The team is better off, DR is better off and Philly is better off. My only complaint is 4th round but I heard it was switching round 3 too so....meh.

Next man up fellas.

Winston -> Butler, Newton
Brisiel -> Caldwell, Smith
Dressen -> Casey, Graham
Demeco -> Sharpton?
Williams -> Barwin, Reed
Allen -> Harris, McCain, Carmichael

Don't look too far for replacements y'all. Still got the draft too.

Runner
03-21-2012, 08:46 AM
As has been stated, you can't have stars that are paid like stars at every position. Smith has to make choices that are sometimes hard. Read back a few pages to the post I made asking who would you rather keep? IMO, that outlook makes the current moves no-brainers. The Texans seem to be setting themselves up to be able to keep their best talent, in the prime of their careers. The flip side is getting rid of some players who might be popular with the fans, the clubhouse or both.The business rears its ugly head.
Besides, I honestly don't see the huge drop off in talent that a lot of people are raving about. Winston and Briseil are average players at their respective positions. Mario is above average, but certainly not the elite player he's being paid to be. Ryan is on the the downhill side of his career, and it could very easily be a steep hill.

So basically the Texans strategy is that this season doesn't matter as much as re-signing next year's free agents? That sounds like something Kubes could sell to McNair - "we had unforeseeable salary cap problems this year, but trust me, next year is THE year". The team had better be sure there are no surprising cap adjustments next year...

It seems to me that a lot of the optimism with the totality of these player losses so far is that "they weren't that good anyway". That is a common trend of thought when any player leaves the Texans, but I seem to recall that while they have that bull on their helmets they are perceived as better than average or better than barely adequate starting material. (For the record, I've never thought Mario was worth the money. Good riddance on that move).

I've also read we are supposed to patiently wait for the great moves Smith has in his master plan to make all of this make sense. I'm not sure what these moves will be if the point is to save money for next year and they have cap problems now.

I do agree with one thing you posted - the moves the Texans have made the past week, taken in total, look like a giant "no brainer".

srrono
03-21-2012, 08:54 AM
Where is all the cap money spent?
Lost Brisel-Winston-Vickers-Allen-Ryans-Mario-Leinart
Maybe Dreessen

All these salaries gone and still in cap trouble. Who is eating our cap?

Thorn
03-21-2012, 08:57 AM
Who is eating our cap?

http://motherjones.com/files/legacy/kevin-drum/Blog_Eating_Hat.jpg