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View Full Version : Would you draft Stephon Gilmore...


Rey
03-19-2012, 10:28 AM
....if he was there at 26?


http://media.thestate.com/smedia/2009/03/28/21/308-gilmorelead.lead_art_horizontal.prod_affiliate.74. jpg

Man Coverage: Plays mostly in press-bail or off-coverage. Flashes a tough, aggressive punch after the snap in rare press coverage occasions, but may not have the strength to knock NFL receivers off their routes. Not elite transitioning forward from backpedal, will take an extra step or loop a bit when closing on slants. Lacks elite recovery and straight-line speed to stay with faster wideouts down the field if beaten on a double move or losing a step off the line.

Zone Coverage: Fits best in a zone system like he currently plays. Knows his, and others', assignments on every play. Comes out initial read quickly to stop the underneath route dead. Quick feet in off coverage to adjust to inside routes, even when playing outside technique. Explodes to plays in front of him, cutting down his target or wrapping up if able to line up the receiver. Forces turnovers and dropped passes with his ability to arrive strong at the receiver with the ball.

Ball Skills: Makes quarterbacks pay for poor throws with centerfielder-like instincts and hands. Uses his height in full advantage on jump balls, make difficult catches with his hands extended away from his frame. Excellent elusiveness after the catch that shows as a punt returner. Has solid hands and typically makes the right decision to fair catch, but does not have breakaway speed and will dance or move east-west instead of heading straight upfield.


Run Support: Takes run support very seriously, seeking out contact. Chops down runs to his side when able, evades most receivers blocks with quickness and quick hands -- though NFL receivers will have regular success holding him up on the outside because of his slight build.

Tackling: Aggressive hitter in the secondary who plays without regard to his own safety. Best when coming downhill and cutting down ballcarriers with a low shoulder. Constantly looking to strip the football from ballcarriers while other defenders are making the tackle. Man-up tackling is a challenge for him, however, when facing a strong runner who lowers his pads or larger receivers with the length to stiff-arm him. Plays on coverage units. Brought on edge blitzes regularly when front four isn't getting there, uses quickness and big hits to create turnovers from the blind side.

Intangibles: Left after junior season with 40 career starts. Quiet, hard-working player who consistently gets praise from coaches and teammates for his work ethic and attitude. Puts in time in the film room, knows his opponents and defensive scheme inside and out. No worries about on-field effort, brings tenacious attitude on every play.



http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664166


I haven't seen anyone giving him much run...I think Lucky mentioned him a few days ago in another thread, but I really like what I've seen from him. He's a good athlete and an even better football player.

I know we've got Kareem and we drafted Harris last year, but man...Good corners are not easy to come by and I think this guy is going to be a good one.

Playoffs
03-19-2012, 10:32 AM
I like every about Gilmore except the "fits best in zone" and "might be moved to safety" insights ... I want a pure corner who can man.

bah007
03-19-2012, 10:57 AM
I like Gilmore better as a cover 2 corner. I don't really see the man coverage skills to be more than just an average player in any other scheme.

Rey
03-19-2012, 11:18 AM
I like Gilmore better as a cover 2 corner. I don't really see the man coverage skills to be more than just an average player in any other scheme.


I think he has the athleticism to be a man cover corner...

I think two things he has going in his favor are his ball skills, and his size..

So I guess I disagree that his ceiling is average corner outside of a cover 2 scheme...

I don't know about top tier status, but I think he can be a really good #2 or a borderline #1 with the right coaching and the right scheme man or zone...

I agree that he would probably be really good in a scheme that uses mostly zone since that seems to be his strong suit, but I still like his man coverage ability...

Blake
03-19-2012, 11:21 AM
No.

bah007
03-19-2012, 11:23 AM
I think he has the athleticism to be a man cover corner...

I think two things he has going in his favor are his ball skills, and his size..

So I guess I disagree that his ceiling is average corner outside of a cover 2 scheme...

I don't know about top tier status, but I think he can be a really good #2 or a borderline #1 with the right coaching and the right scheme man or zone...

He is a great athlete. But that doesn't necessarily make him a great man cover corner. Too often he is using his athleticism to recover from a mistake instead of using it to blanket a guy.

I think he is a #1 in a zone scheme. I see him as a perfect fit.

In a man scheme he might pass for a #2, but I see him more as a nickel.

Just my opinion though.

beerlover
03-19-2012, 11:31 AM
in my first Texan mock draft I selected Stephon Gilmore (1st) mind you this was about half way into the season & Kareem was still struggling, but as time continued he played better & better making the need to stretch for another first rd. CB unnecessary, IMO. The more I watched Gilmore the more he dissapointed me as well. Just doesn't play @ a consistent level an entire game. very gifted but not the competitor Wade Phillips identifies. I like Jayron Hosley better (2nd). He is a ballhawk & pure cover corner who can play man.

Rey
03-19-2012, 11:47 AM
He is a great athlete. But that doesn't necessarily make him a great man cover corner. Too often he is using his athleticism to recover from a mistake instead of using it to blanket a guy.


I understand that and that is why I said "with the right coaching" (which I think we have)....

I understand that man coverage takes a lot of technique, but having the athleticism to do it is a big part of the battle...My whole point in mentioning that was me aknowledging that he could use some refinement in that area...

I think he could immediately come into our defense and challenge for the #2 position.

JMO.

Rey
03-19-2012, 11:49 AM
in my first Texan mock draft I selected Stephon Gilmore (1st) mind you this was about half way into the season & Kareem was still struggling, but as time continued he played better & better making the need to stretch for another first rd. CB unnecessary, IMO. The more I watched Gilmore the more he dissapointed me as well. Just doesn't play @ a consistent level an entire game. very gifted but not the competitor Wade Phillips identifies. I like Jayron Hosley better (2nd). He is a ballhawk & pure cover corner who can play man.

That's a strange observation because that seems to be one of his strong points...

beerlover
03-19-2012, 12:02 PM
That's a strange observation because that seems to be one of his strong points...

not strange at all if you watched his games. avoids contact end of plays not a finisher, usually standing around when not involved in play but I was hoping to see more. South Carolina as a group under-performed all season. The one player who I must say stood out was Melvin Ingram, he never took plays off, always around the ball. talk about elite talent, Ingram would be in my top 10.

badboy
03-19-2012, 01:29 PM
I'm in agreement with BL. Don't see a CB in draft and Gilmore not for our system. He will go high but Hosely much better as man CB. Gilmore better hitter than Hosely but not in coverage.

steelbtexan
03-19-2012, 03:13 PM
I like Gilmore alot, he can press cover. Whoever wrote that piece was wrong.IMHO

I like Josh Robinson in the 2nd even more.

WolverineFan
03-19-2012, 03:24 PM
in my first Texan mock draft I selected Stephon Gilmore (1st) mind you this was about half way into the season & Kareem was still struggling, but as time continued he played better & better making the need to stretch for another first rd. CB unnecessary, IMO. The more I watched Gilmore the more he dissapointed me as well. Just doesn't play @ a consistent level an entire game. very gifted but not the competitor Wade Phillips identifies. I like Jayron Hosley better (2nd). He is a ballhawk & pure cover corner who can play man.

Good stuff, love Hosley.

TimeKiller
03-19-2012, 06:32 PM
To answer the question, no, I wouldn't draft Gilmore #26.

But I would nab Trumaine Johnson there, I think he has 1st round measurables and used it to beat up on smaller schools. He needs pro coaching but he has physical gifts to be an elite press-man corner with the ability to make plays on the ball. He's either a super sized corner or decently sized FS and would be seeing regular minutes from the get go in a secondary that is hiding a lot with JJo.

It's a potential type pick, which is dangerous, will get loudly and roundly questioned, flamed and judged immediately but it's a pick on a guy who could make this secondary as feared as the front 7 is.

Playoffs
03-22-2012, 03:21 PM
That's a big jump, imo.

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Notable that Mayock has moved Stephon Gilmore to No. 2 in his cornerback rankings. Mo Claiborne is 1. Gilmore leapfrogged Dre Kirkpatrick.

Rey
03-22-2012, 05:14 PM
That's a big jump, imo.

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Notable that Mayock has moved Stephon Gilmore to No. 2 in his cornerback rankings. Mo Claiborne is 1. Gilmore leapfrogged Dre Kirkpatrick.

I think ppl are sleeping on Gilmore. I really like his game.

steelbtexan
03-22-2012, 05:39 PM
I think ppl are sleeping on Gilmore. I really like his game.

Yep

He's a top 15 pick. Who will last until the bottom of the 1st or top of the 2nd.

This will be a test of Ricks we always take BPA thingy.

LikeMike
03-22-2012, 06:11 PM
No, I don`t want to draft another CB early in the draft in the near future. We have lots of young talent on the team (KJ, Harris, Carmichael just to name a few). Either we believe in our secondary drafting ability, then one of them should pan out - or we just admit that we don`t have a good eye for drafting CBs and stick to signing them in FA and continue drafting LBs, HBs and TEs ;-).

And after all, I believe there are way more pressing needs on the team, especially after this craze FA. I´d try to get the bpa available of any WR, O-Line, OLB, ILB, NT and keep doing just that until the 4th or 5th round. The only reason to draft another position for me would be, if some amazing talent drops that we have really high expectations in.

Wolf6151
03-22-2012, 06:26 PM
Everything I read about Gilmore makes him sound like a solid high 2nd round CB pick that plays best in a zone system. If we took him at #26 it might be a small reach. He lacks the strength to play man press coverage but honestly that strength will come from an NFL level strength and conditioning program so I'm not to worried there. He plays off the receiver and closes well to break up the pass and tackles/hits very well. All of this sounds like even if he didn't work out at CB, he'd be a hell of a FS. He'd be risky at #26 but honestly just about everyone at #26 is risky.

steelbtexan
03-22-2012, 06:54 PM
Everything I read about Gilmore makes him sound like a solid high 2nd round CB pick that plays best in a zone system. If we took him at #26 it might be a small reach. He lacks the strength to play man press coverage but honestly that strength will come from an NFL level strength and conditioning program so I'm not to worried there. He plays off the receiver and closes well to break up the pass and tackles/hits very well. All of this sounds like even if he didn't work out at CB, he'd be a hell of a FS. He'd be risky at #26 but honestly just about everyone at #26 is risky.

Dont believe those reports, I've seen with my own eyes that he can play press coverage. You're right though he would make a great FS.

I will admit CB is the hardest position for me to evaluate. I thought Peterson would be a stud as a rookie and he was an avg CB at best. Although he did improve alot as the yr wore on.

Wolf6151
03-22-2012, 07:03 PM
Dont believe those reports, I've seen with my own eyes that he can play press coverage. You're right though he would make a great FS.

I will admit CB is the hardest position for me to evaluate. I thought Peterson would be a stud as a rookie and he was an avg CB at best. Although he did improve alot as the yr wore on.


Your not the only one. I think CB is the hardest position to evaluate, even for professional scouts, for pro potential.

Rey
03-22-2012, 07:03 PM
Dont believe those reports, I've seen with my own eyes that he can play press coverage. You're right though he would make a great FS.

I will admit CB is the hardest position for me to evaluate. I thought Peterson would be a stud as a rookie and he was an avg CB at best. Although he did improve alot as the yr wore on.

IMO, Peterson is going to be a good NFL corner. He flashed a lot last year.

I think he'll be much better this year.

And I think if he was able to focus just on cb and wasn't pulling double duty as a returner he'd have been a better cb.

rmartin65
03-22-2012, 07:05 PM
I dont think so. Good player, good prospect no doubt, but I dont think he is a value pick at 26. Nor do I want another corner.

Rey
03-22-2012, 07:18 PM
I dont think so. Good player, good prospect no doubt, but I dont think he is a value pick at 26. Nor do I want another corner.

I don't understand your last sentence. That's the kind of thinking that got us okoye instead of patrick Willis or revis. Both were clearly better prospects.

I understand drafting for need to an extent and I can understand if someone doesn't like Gilmore as a player.

But if he is the best prospect on the board when the texans pick I'd take him and not think twice.

Having a lot of corners is not the same thing as having a lot of good corners.

rmartin65
03-22-2012, 07:23 PM
I don't understand your last sentence. That's the kind of thinking that got us okoye instead of patrick Willis or revis. Both were clearly better prospects.

I understand drafting for need to an extent and I can understand if someone doesn't like Gilmore as a player.

But if he is the best prospect on the board when the texans pick I'd take him and not think twice.

Having a lot of corners is not the same thing as having a lot of good corners.

Yeah, I see what you are saying. I think that Gilmore is no better a prospect than Harris, who we drafted last year. Plus, I do think there will be better players available when the Texans pick who have the added bonus of being at positions of need.

Rey
03-22-2012, 11:39 PM
Yeah, I see what you are saying. I think that Gilmore is no better a prospect than Harris, who we drafted last year. Plus, I do think there will be better players available when the Texans pick who have the added bonus of being at positions of need.

Ok, now that I can understand.

TimeKiller
03-23-2012, 11:09 AM
If someone fell in love with Gilmore and it pushed down somebody like Dre Kirkpatrick to the Texans.....would you draft Kirkpatrick?

Playoffs
03-26-2012, 11:42 PM
Hmmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umCDujbLT38

Playoffs
04-02-2012, 02:33 PM
Sporting News CB rankings: (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-02/nfl-draft-2012-cornerback-rankings-morris-claiborne)

1. Morris Claiborne (5-11, 188 pounds), LSU. Claiborne is a better cornerback prospect than 2010 teammate Patrick Peterson. — Claiborne dazzles on pro day | Combine workout solidifies status as best CB prospect |

2. Dre Kirkpatrick (6-2, 186), Alabama. Kirkpatrick is raw, but his combination of size, speed and athleticism gives him tremendous potential. — Kirkpatrick puts on a show at Alabama workout | Ideal for covering big NFL receivers | Potential red flag?

3. Brandon Boykin (5-10, 182), Georgia. Boykin’s play-making ability reminds us of three-time Pro Bowl cornerback Antoine Winfield.

4. Janoris Jenkins (5-10, 193), North Alabama. Jenkins would be challenging Claiborne to be the first cornerback drafted if not for character concerns. — Scouting report: Tons of talent, loads of baggage

5. Josh Robinson (5-10, 199), Central Florida. Little known when he declared for the draft, Robinson grabbed everyone's attention with an amazing Scouting Combine performance. — Get SN's exclusive breakdown on Robinson

6. Stephon Gilmore (6-1, 190), South Carolina

7. Chase Minnifield (5-10, 183), Virginia

8. Jamell Fleming (5-11, 206), Oklahoma

9. Dwight Bentley (5-10, 182), Louisiana-Lafayette

10. Alfonzo Dennard (5-10, 204), Nebraska

11. Donnie Fletcher (6-0, 201), Boston College
12. Shaun Prater (5-10, 190), Iowa
13. Casey Hayward (5-11, 192), Vanderbilt
14. Jeremy Lane (6-0, 183), Northwestern State
15. Jayron Hosley (5-10, 178), Virginia Tech
16. Leonard Johnson (5-10, 196), Iowa State
17. Trumaine Johnson (6-2, 204), Montana
18. Micah Pellerin (6-0, 194), Hampton
19. Keith Tandy (5-10, 200), West Virginia
20. Conroy Black (6-0, 186), Utah

Best in man coverage
Morris Claiborne. His athleticism and ball skills enable him to excel covering receivers in man coverage.

Best in press technique
Janoris Jenkins. He's quick to jolt receivers with his punch, which slows their release. Jenkins plays physical throughout route.

Best in zone coverage
Josh Robinson. He does an excellent job of reading the quarterback and closes fast on passes.

Toughest against the run
Dre Kirkpatrick. He attacks the line of scrimmage and is a strong and physical tackler.

Playmaking potential
Brandon Boykin. His ball skills and kick return ability give him the tools to make big plays on defense and special teams.

Rey
04-02-2012, 02:37 PM
I really like the way Janoris Jenkins plays...

I like a lot of these corners and I would not be upset if we picked on in the first or second round...I think this is a strong group and I'd like to capitalize on that...

bah007
04-02-2012, 03:29 PM
Sporting News CB rankings: (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-02/nfl-draft-2012-cornerback-rankings-morris-claiborne)

1. Morris Claiborne (5-11, 188 pounds), LSU. Claiborne is a better cornerback prospect than 2010 teammate Patrick Peterson. — Claiborne dazzles on pro day | Combine workout solidifies status as best CB prospect |

2. Dre Kirkpatrick (6-2, 186), Alabama. Kirkpatrick is raw, but his combination of size, speed and athleticism gives him tremendous potential. — Kirkpatrick puts on a show at Alabama workout | Ideal for covering big NFL receivers | Potential red flag?

3. Brandon Boykin (5-10, 182), Georgia. Boykin’s play-making ability reminds us of three-time Pro Bowl cornerback Antoine Winfield.

4. Janoris Jenkins (5-10, 193), North Alabama. Jenkins would be challenging Claiborne to be the first cornerback drafted if not for character concerns. — Scouting report: Tons of talent, loads of baggage

5. Josh Robinson (5-10, 199), Central Florida. Little known when he declared for the draft, Robinson grabbed everyone's attention with an amazing Scouting Combine performance. — Get SN's exclusive breakdown on Robinson

6. Stephon Gilmore (6-1, 190), South Carolina

7. Chase Minnifield (5-10, 183), Virginia

8. Jamell Fleming (5-11, 206), Oklahoma

9. Dwight Bentley (5-10, 182), Louisiana-Lafayette

10. Alfonzo Dennard (5-10, 204), Nebraska

11. Donnie Fletcher (6-0, 201), Boston College
12. Shaun Prater (5-10, 190), Iowa
13. Casey Hayward (5-11, 192), Vanderbilt
14. Jeremy Lane (6-0, 183), Northwestern State
15. Jayron Hosley (5-10, 178), Virginia Tech
16. Leonard Johnson (5-10, 196), Iowa State
17. Trumaine Johnson (6-2, 204), Montana
18. Micah Pellerin (6-0, 194), Hampton
19. Keith Tandy (5-10, 200), West Virginia
20. Conroy Black (6-0, 186), Utah

Best in man coverage
Morris Claiborne. His athleticism and ball skills enable him to excel covering receivers in man coverage.

Best in press technique
Janoris Jenkins. He's quick to jolt receivers with his punch, which slows their release. Jenkins plays physical throughout route.

Best in zone coverage
Josh Robinson. He does an excellent job of reading the quarterback and closes fast on passes.

Toughest against the run
Dre Kirkpatrick. He attacks the line of scrimmage and is a strong and physical tackler.

Playmaking potential
Brandon Boykin. His ball skills and kick return ability give him the tools to make big plays on defense and special teams.

I'm not gonna go all out and call this list garbage, but it's close.

Boykin at #3? He's been on my watch list for over two years and I have never been impressed with him as a CB. He is being vastly overrated because he is a superb returner.

Hosley at #15? Seriously? What is there not to like about this kid? Oh no he is lighter than all the other guys. Big damn deal. He plays bigger than he is, and makes a ton of plays too.

Playoffs
04-20-2012, 09:33 PM
A number of draftniks projecting Gilmore goes in top 10 now.

PapaL
04-20-2012, 10:46 PM
The only Gilmore I like are the girls.

beerlover
04-20-2012, 11:19 PM
I would select Hosley over Gilmore if I wanted the better CB.

Rey
04-20-2012, 11:34 PM
I would select Hosley over Gilmore if I wanted the better CB.

Bodley has really good ball skills, buys he's kind of small. Injury concerns and I think he's had some concussions.

Gilmore has good ball skills as well though. I think overall Gilmore is the better player and id take him at 26 in a heartbeat. I love the way he plays.

I

Playoffs
04-22-2012, 09:10 AM
NFL Network's Mike Lombardi reported on Path to the Draft Friday night that the Jaguars have a higher grade on Stephon Gilmore than Morris Claiborne. NFL Films' Greg Cosell also stated in a Friday radio interview that Gilmore is a better prospect than Claiborne, the 2011 Thorpe Award winner.

Dutchrudder
04-22-2012, 10:26 AM
NFL Network's Mike Lombardi reported on Path to the Draft Friday night that the Jaguars have a higher grade on Stephon Gilmore than Morris Claiborne. NFL Films' Greg Cosell also stated in a Friday radio interview that Gilmore is a better prospect than Claiborne, the 2011 Thorpe Award winner.

Are you listening Tampa? The Jags say they don't care if you take Claiborne because Gilmore is better and taller! This can't possibly be a smokescreen!