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View Full Version : Konz or Best WR Available


rickyb
03-18-2012, 10:22 AM
Just trying to get a sense of the pulse on this.

Lucky
03-18-2012, 10:30 AM
I would say OT, OLB and CB would have to be considered, as well. Free agency losses have put a lot of positions on the table. The Texans need to find depth, and they can't afford a lot of misses. I'm afraid Harris was a miss, last year.

Playoffs
03-18-2012, 10:38 AM
I would say OT, OLB and CB would have to be considered, as well ... I'm afraid Harris was a miss, last year.Agree. I think Harris is slow & plays slow. Concerns about Konz's health/strength?

I don't think WR is as big a need now as OLB/NT and CB -- can't leave Kareem out there all the time.

03/08/2012 - Wisconsin Pro day: While the skill position players got most of the buzz, scouts believe the Wisconsin tradition of producing quality offensive linemen could be proven yet again with one or two Badger blockers the first players drafted from the school in 2012. Offensive guard Kevin Zeitler was "efficient and powerful" during positional drills. Junior Peter Konz was unable to fully participate due to the fact that he's still recovering from the dislocated ankle that sidelined him for much of the second half of the regular season in 2011. He did do the snapping to Wilson in drills, however. Scouts like Konz's size and mobility enough that some view him as possible convert to guard or even right tackle in the NFL. More than a few scouts are concerned with a lack of ideal strength shown during the bench press drill at the Combine, where Konz lifted the bar "only" 18 times. Zeitler, by comparison, had 32 reps. - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1679100/peter-konz)

Dutchrudder
03-18-2012, 11:18 AM
I would much rather get Zeitler over Konz.

WolverineFan
03-18-2012, 11:22 AM
Floyd is the only WR I'd target in the 1st round. Other than him I would take BPA at OL, DL, or OLB.

281
03-18-2012, 11:30 AM
I would say OT, OLB and CB would have to be considered, as well. Free agency losses have put a lot of positions on the table. The Texans need to find depth, and they can't afford a lot of misses. I'm afraid Harris was a miss, last year.

brandon harris? isn't it a bit early?

WolverineFan
03-18-2012, 11:38 AM
brandon harris? isn't it a bit early?

Yes, but you usually want 2nd round picks to at least get on the field consistently as rookies. It's not like he was labeled as a project player when he came out. He definitely has time to turn it around and he has the chance this year with Allen being a FA.

mussop
03-18-2012, 11:49 AM
Floyd is the only WR I'd target in the 1st round. Other than him I would take BPA at OL, DL, or OLB.

:bravo:


1st ROUND

David DeCastro OG Stanford
Michael Floyd WR Notre Dame
Jerel Worthy DE/DT Michigan State
Fletcher Cox DE Mississippi St
Dont'a Hightower ILB Alabama
Nick Perry OLB Southern Cal
Whitney Mercilus OLB Illinois

These are the guys I would target at 26. If they are all gone I would trade down. I know this sounds crazy but I would also consider Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford. I know TE is not a huge need but if you think about it with Schaub at QB the TE is more likely to get the ball than a speedy #2 WR. Fleener looks special and him and OD out there together would be much more imposing than OD and Dreeson who were out there alot the last couple of years. In fact Dreeson was the leader on our team in TD receptions last year.

rickyb
03-18-2012, 01:37 PM
Understand that I made the choices in the poll in such a way as to force a choice between the positions. I am trying to gauge Texans Fan's collective interest in C vs. WR. Opportunity cost, roster depth, draft depth, position value, etc, etc.

There are other players I am interested in at 26. I purposefully exclude them from this "guns or butter" decision.

TexCanada
03-18-2012, 02:19 PM
This is a tough choice. Its difficult to know how Caldwell and Shelley Smith have developed since we get to see them so little. We pretty much know exactly what we have at WR.

That being said, I think that the best value at WR is in the 2nd round. So unless Floyd somehow drops to us in the first then I think I would prefer to go Oline in this situation.

If all the options were open though I would probably go OLB in the first and look for WR and Oline in the 2nd and 3rd. I hope we also scrounge around for a bargain O-lineman in FA.

Rey
03-18-2012, 02:26 PM
I doubt wr will be the best player available. I'd rather have worthy or zeitler. I'm not a konz fan. Well I am, but not as a first round pick. To me he has world class effort but he doesn't have the ability to match it. I think guards need to be a little more talented than centers and I think zeitler is easily the superior player. Konz isn't coming here to play center for us, so i wouldn't pull that trigger.

Worthy, I'd take him. I'd take stephon Gilmore or one of the other top corners if they happened to fall. Zeitler. Yes. Stephen hill is interesting, but I'd rather have someone more polished and I've said this before, but outside if Floyd and Blackmon I don't see a wr that would come in and start over kw in their first year. The guys I named above I think can come in and be day one starters or start at some point during the season.

Playoffs
03-18-2012, 02:31 PM
I am trying to gauge Texans Fan's collective interest in C vs. WR.Based on that, I have zero interest in a Center as we just signed one of the better C's for 4 years.

WolverineFan
03-18-2012, 02:39 PM
The odds that we land an impact player at #26 are not good. This is one of the deepest drafts in years. I'd prefer to trade back into the top of the 2nd and pick up an extra 3rd or 4th. We have holes and we need to fill them with quality players. There is going to be a ton of quality players available in the first 4 rounds.

TimeKiller
03-18-2012, 03:41 PM
The odds that we land an impact player at #26 are not good. This is one of the deepest drafts in years. I'd prefer to trade back into the top of the 2nd and pick up an extra 3rd or 4th. We have holes and we need to fill them with quality players. There is going to be a ton of quality players available in the first 4 rounds.

agreed but if they can't work a trade out then I'd think they might just say, well we need a WR so take your favorite one available, even if it will be a reach to get the need selection out of the way. That way when the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds come about they can focus on picking up the BPA, since the draft seems so deep that would support reaching for a WR. Maybe like AJ Jenkins or Joe Adams, nobody really believes them to be 1st rounders. Or if Kendall Wright is available, he could very well be the pick. Then build the lines out with mid rounders, grab a couple skill players later.

Rey
03-18-2012, 04:03 PM
The odds that we land an impact player at #26 are not good.

I disagree with that. We have two guys that have definitive schemes that have been very successful at finding guys that perform well in that system. We've found good players throughout the draft. Look at reed last year. We can find an impact player in the second round but not @ 26? We had both Arian and brisel sign lucrative deals this off season.

I can't sit here today and definitively say we should trade down. We don't know who will be available and we don't know how the coaches envision said players fitting in their scheme.

I think it's quite possible we can find an impact player at 26.

Wolf6151
03-18-2012, 05:48 PM
Based on that, I have zero interest in a Center as we just signed one of the better C's for 4 years.

This was my thinking exactly. Why draft C to sit on the bench for 3-4 yrs. in the 1st round.

WolverineFan
03-18-2012, 05:56 PM
I disagree with that. We have two guys that have definitive schemes that have been very successful at finding guys that perform well in that system. We've found good players throughout the draft. Look at reed last year. We can find an impact player in the second round but not @ 26? We had both Arian and brisel sign lucrative deals this off season.

I can't sit here today and definitively say we should trade down. We don't know who will be available and we don't know how the coaches envision said players fitting in their scheme.

I think it's quite possible we can find an impact player at 26.

Wasn't exactly my point, but what I was saying was a guy like Perry or Floyd is not going to fall to #26.

If we trade back into the top of the 2nd round there will be no difference in the quality of the prospect there (at say #40) as it compares to what we'd get at 26.

Just my opinion, but there's like 10 or so elite prospects in this draft and after that its extremely deep. We're not going to get one of the elite ones but we have a chance to trade back and get 4 of the higher quality ones instead of 3.

Rey
03-18-2012, 06:02 PM
Wasn't exactly my point, but what I was saying was a guy like Perry or Floyd is not going to fall to #26.

If we trade back into the top of the 2nd round there will be no difference in the quality of the prospect there (at say #40) as it compares to what we'd get at 26.

I guess my point was, How do you know that?

We don't know who will be available and we don't know how the coaches see said players fitting in their scheme...

You are making a definitive statement about no impact players being available and that is what I am disagreeing with right now. There is no way for us to know that.

WolverineFan
03-18-2012, 06:07 PM
I guess my point was, How do you know that?

We don't know who will be available and we don't know how the coaches see said players fitting in their scheme...

You are making a definitive statement about no impact players being available and that is what I am disagreeing with right now. There is no way for us to know that.

Obviously I can't know for sure, but that's my opinion.

badboy
03-18-2012, 07:38 PM
I would take Konz over Randle but he's not my first. I also agree on WR in 2nd. I take Marvin McNutt. I am really hoping for a trade down from#26 unless Wright there. I just don't see Kubiak settling for a rookie draft pick to start on Oline so expect a vet FA or trade similar to picking up Myers for a 6th.

1. Vinnie Curry OLB 2. McNutt WR 3. Blake C/RG 4. Ryan Broyles Slot 5. Josh Oglesby RT
6. Lonnie Edwards (I may be overvaluing him as I had him as a 4th during season, but no one else sees what I do, I guess.) True LG with great size and strength. Played for high octane Texas Tech offense. 7. Chad Diehl FB.

Still tinkering a bit but probably close to where I end up. Also, way too early to give up on Harris. I'm thinking with Allen gone he and Carmichael should get more playing time.

beerlover
03-18-2012, 08:12 PM
Wasn't exactly my point, but what I was saying was a guy like Perry or Floyd is not going to fall to #26.

If we trade back into the top of the 2nd round there will be no difference in the quality of the prospect there (at say #40) as it compares to what we'd get at 26.

Just my opinion, but there's like 10 or so elite prospects in this draft and after that its extremely deep. We're not going to get one of the elite ones but we have a chance to trade back and get 4 of the higher quality ones instead of 3.

Just curious who are your elite 10?

WolverineFan
03-18-2012, 11:42 PM
Just curious who are your elite 10?

QB - Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin
RB - Trent Richardson
WR - Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd
OT - Matt Kalil
OG - David DeCastro
DE - Quinton Coples
OLB - Courtney Upshaw
MLB - Luke Kuechly
CB - Morris Claiborne

SAMURAITEXAN
03-19-2012, 12:17 AM
After Myers signing, I don't think we are going to draft OL nor OLB in the first rd. I still believe the Texans will be drafting WR in the first rd. For OL, we will be drafting in the 3rd to late rounds as usual. For OLB, likely the same as OL. However, some player Wade or Gary like slips to our pick in the 2nd, things may change and I think it will be on D side. When Wade talks people listen kind of attitude. But who knows, it is still a long way to go till draft day.

Go Texans!!!

DocBar
03-19-2012, 08:23 AM
BPA and done. Look at your board, Smith. Pick whoever is #1 after 25 picks. A player that grades out well enough to be there will more than likely be a very good football player in your system. If he's not, then you need better scouts.

rickyb
03-19-2012, 10:19 PM
Based on that, I have zero interest in a Center as we just signed one of the better C's for 4 years.

Fair, and I hear ya. But as I understand it, Konz is an exceptional talent who can transition to G. Antoine Caldwell has exactly "owned" the position.

rickyb
03-19-2012, 10:23 PM
This was my thinking exactly. Why draft C to sit on the bench for 3-4 yrs. in the 1st round.

Who says he sits? He might play another position.

EDIT: I am not in love with Konz. I just want to see the thought process. Everyone seems so stuck on WR, so I wanted to catalyze a little critical thinking. Lest we all go to Abiline.

mussop
03-19-2012, 11:39 PM
I doubt wr will be the best player available. I'd rather have worthy or zeitler. I'm not a konz fan. Well I am, but not as a first round pick. To me he has world class effort but he doesn't have the ability to match it. I think guards need to be a little more talented than centers and I think zeitler is easily the superior player. Konz isn't coming here to play center for us, so i wouldn't pull that trigger.

Worthy, I'd take him. I'd take stephon Gilmore or one of the other top corners if they happened to fall. Zeitler. Yes. Stephen hill is interesting, but I'd rather have someone more polished and I've said this before, but outside if Floyd and Blackmon I don't see a wr that would come in and start over kw in their first year. The guys I named above I think can come in and be day one starters or start at some point during the season.

The more I watch of them the more I think Konz will fall and Zeitler will rise.

Rey
03-19-2012, 11:51 PM
The more I watch of them the more I think Konz will fall and Zeitler will rise.

Zeitler is a beast.

To me konz looks ok. But he looks like an unpolished Chris myers to me with more nastiness to his game. He wants to burry a guy every play. If I had to compare their games, konz is like a deranged cocker spaniel and zeitler is like a trained Rottweiler.

A deranged cocker spaniel is capable if f'ing some stuff up, but a trained Rottweiler is a trained Rottweiler.

Goldensilence
03-20-2012, 12:23 AM
:bravo:


1st ROUND

David DeCastro OG Stanford
Michael Floyd WR Notre Dame
Jerel Worthy DE/DT Michigan State
Fletcher Cox DE Mississippi St
Dont'a Hightower ILB Alabama
Nick Perry OLB Southern Cal
Whitney Mercilus OLB Illinois

These are the guys I would target at 26. If they are all gone I would trade down. I know this sounds crazy but I would also consider Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford. I know TE is not a huge need but if you think about it with Schaub at QB the TE is more likely to get the ball than a speedy #2 WR. Fleener looks special and him and OD out there together would be much more imposing than OD and Dreeson who were out there alot the last couple of years. In fact Dreeson was the leader on our team in TD receptions last year.

People thought the Pats were weird for taking Hernandez when they had Gronk already. Just Saying.

I love OD's game, he's more of a traditional TE though. Knows how to find open spots in zones, great in between the hashes, great hands, and great field awareness. He just doesn't physically create mismatches like both Gronk and Hernandez do. If there's not a great player at a need spot, I think Fleener would be a good choice. We need someone else on offense to create mismatches and have defenses focus on so AJ can get back to being AJ.

I think its too early to tell on Harris. He didn't get to see a lot of PT but, honestly we had the luxury of being able to throw Allen and McCain out there while Carmicheal and Harris have a chance to get up to NFL game speed.

Far as the OP goes...if we just signed Myers to a deal why waste a 1st on another center?

TimeKiller
03-20-2012, 08:14 AM
I wouldn't mind a TE late in the 1st but I would probably take Orson Charles. Dude is just a freaky sized WR.

b0ng
03-20-2012, 08:22 AM
I am very leery of taking a WR in the first unless his name is Blackmon or Floyd. Would deg choose Konz over Randle.

Insideop
03-20-2012, 08:27 AM
If Konz or the best WR available are the choices, I'd have to go with the WR. If Floyd, by some miracle, is there it's a no-brainer, however, if Wright and Randle are the choices, I'd try a trade back to get more picks. I know a lot of people here are high on Wright, I'm just not sold on him and I wonder if the Texans are. :thinking: