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View Full Version : It's to early to panic over the OL.


mussop
03-14-2012, 10:59 AM
If Myers stays we resign Breisal and start Butler at RT. That's not a bad group.

If Myers stays and we loose Breisal then either move up in the draft and draft decastro or trade back and draft zeitler. I also would look to add another reasonably priced vet via FA like Jeramy Zuttah.

IF myers leaves and we resign Breisal and move him to C then either move up in the draft and draft decastro or trade back and draft zeitler. I also would look to add another reasonably priced vet via FA like Jeramy Zuttah.

At least who ever we bring in will have time to get aclamated with OTA's and a full camp and preseason.

If we loose both Myers and Breisal then its time to panic because we are F*#^ed!!

silvrhand
03-14-2012, 11:06 AM
If Myers stays we resign Breisal and start Butler at RT. That's not a bad group.

If Myers stays and we loose Breisal then either move up in the draft and draft decastro or trade back and draft zeitler. I also would look to add another reasonably priced vet via FA like Jeramy Zuttah.

IF myers leaves and we resign Breisal and move him to C then either move up in the draft and draft decastro or trade back and draft zeitler. I also would look to add another reasonably priced vet via FA like Jeramy Zuttah.

At least who ever we bring in will have time to get aclamated with OTA's and a full camp and preseason.

If we loose both Myers and Breisal then its time to panic because we are F*#^ed!!

Of course it's time to panic, we had one of the best OL in the game last year, and now we are going to mess with that? Really? When your starting and backup are the best 1-2 punch in the game, is it them or your OL. I'm going to go with OL.

IDEXAN
03-14-2012, 11:11 AM
I'm not panicking but I bet Rick Smith is because the way this is going he's about ready to join Winston, Breisel, & Myers in free agency.

Texan_Bill
03-14-2012, 11:13 AM
If Myers stays we resign Breisal and start Butler at RT. That's not a bad group.

If Myers stays and we loose Breisal then either move up in the draft and draft decastro or trade back and draft zeitler. I also would look to add another reasonably priced vet via FA like Jeramy Zuttah.

IF myers leaves and we resign Breisal and move him to C then either move up in the draft and draft decastro or trade back and draft zeitler. I also would look to add another reasonably priced vet via FA like Jeramy Zuttah.

At least who ever we bring in will have time to get aclamated with OTA's and a full camp and preseason.

If we loose both Myers and Breisal then its time to panic because we are F*#^ed!!

If "IF" were a fifth, we's all be drunk!!!

In short, I'm not nearly as optimistic. :panic:

TexCanada
03-14-2012, 11:25 AM
Can Brisiel make a successful switch to C? If he can then that might be a pretty good option for us. I really don't want to see us in a position where we feel like we have to take an O-line with our first round pick.

Hervoyel
03-14-2012, 11:57 AM
It is too early to panick. We need Myers in a big way but changes on the OL aren't the kiss of death that we (as Texans fans) grew up believing them to be. Sure, for the first five years we had no line and then watched Carr make what we did have look pretty sad but teams change out pieces of their OL every year all over the league and you never hear much about it except for the ones that blow up.

Most teams that draft well and steadily develop talent have pieces ready to plug in when they lose a guy. It's time to find out if the Texans are in fact one of those teams.

Did you think we were done last year when we went to the playoffs? We're we "finished"? Building a good team is great but it's kind of like owning an exotic car. Sure, it's impressive that you got one but what's really a sign of success is being able to afford to maintain it.

KA4Texan
03-14-2012, 12:57 PM
I'm a Texan, it's never to early to panic.

I just pray they know what they are doing.

ObsiWan
03-14-2012, 01:36 PM
Thinking back on how this line was put together, only Brown was a "first day" draft pick. Winston, as I'm sure you recall, was a 3rd rd pick in 06.

We got Myers from Denver for a 3rd (I think) to replace old man McKinney. Many hated him at first as took him two years to gel. But now some are panicking if we don't get him back.

We picked up Brisiel as an UDFA in 2006 (or '07) and groomed him behind Pitts and Weary before age and injuries to those two pushed him into the starting line up.

My point is, these O-line coaches have done a pretty good job bringing youngsters along and developing other teams' castoffs. I think they can do it again. Caldwell, Antoine Smith, Derek Newton, Andrew Gardner and whoever we draft are waiting in the wings. And who knows, we may be able to grab a cheap F/A (don't laugh, remember Brisiel was an UDFA) and teach him our system. Remember the guys (i.e., coaches) who put the 2011 O-line together are still around. They know what they're looking for.

Naaah... I'll wait until I see what we have come preseason time before I "panic".

Vinny
03-14-2012, 01:47 PM
Thinking back on how this line was put together, only Brown was a "first day" draft pick. Winston, as I'm sure you recall, was a 3rd rd pick in 06.

We got Myers from Denver for a 3rd (I think) to replace old man McKinney. Many hated him at first as took him two years to gel. But now some are panicking if we don't get him back.

We picked up Brisiel as an UDFA in 2006 (or '07) and groomed him behind Pitts and Weary before age and injuries to those two pushed him into the starting line up.

My point is, these O-line coaches have done a pretty good job bringing youngsters along and developing other teams' castoffs. I think they can do it again. Caldwell, Antoine Smith, Derek Newton, Andrew Gardner and whoever we draft are waiting in the wings. And who knows, we may be able to grab a cheap F/A (don't laugh, remember Brisiel was an UDFA) and teach him our system. Remember the guys (i.e., coaches) who put the 2011 O-line together are still around. They know what they're looking for.

Naaah... I'll wait until I see what we have come preseason time before I "panic".

free agency doesn't start until all the high priced FAs are over-paid and then the smart teams can get some cheap overlooked players with comparable talents and skill sets. We don't need hard to find body-types with this system...its not like we need 340 pound Guards and 6'6 340 lb Tackles to run our system. Those guys with 'ideal' bodytypes are not needed here.

Marcus
03-14-2012, 01:56 PM
free agency doesn't start until all the high priced FAs are over-paid and then the smart teams can get some cheap overlooked players with comparable talents and skill sets. We don't need hard to find body-types with this system...its not like we need 340 pound Guards and 6'6 340 lb Tackles to run our system. Those guys with 'ideal' bodytypes are not needed here.

What I'm wondering is if they even got enough cap space to get those guys.

ainsworth
03-14-2012, 02:05 PM
Holy crap Texans fans are starting to infuriate me. Let the FA period settle a bit before y'all start claiming the sky is falling. Wait till the end to judge, there is no sense in judging our free agency period on ONE ****ING DAY.

Texaninlild
03-14-2012, 03:11 PM
I do not like dismantling something that worked well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. An o'line functions as a unit and continue to improve as a unit. When you shake up the pieces it usually does not translate into success.

Premier
03-14-2012, 04:40 PM
Of course it's time to panic, we had one of the best OL in the game last year, and now we are going to mess with that? Really? When your starting and backup are the best 1-2 punch in the game, is it them or your OL. I'm going to go with OL.

meh, its the scheme, one of the best run blocking o-lines mostly due to the ZBS. but in pass protection both brisiel and winston left very much to be desired.. im almost certain that majority of the sacks this year came from the right side.. i wouldnt mind puttng rashad butler in at RT for pass protection...

badboy
03-14-2012, 04:49 PM
I do not like dismantling something that worked well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. An o'line functions as a unit and continue to improve as a unit. When you shake up the pieces it usually does not translate into success.You seem to be focusing on only Oline, maybe SMith is trying to make entire roster better?

badboy
03-14-2012, 04:51 PM
If Myers stays we resign Breisal and start Butler at RT. That's not a bad group.

If Myers stays and we loose Breisal then either move up in the draft and draft decastro or trade back and draft zeitler. I also would look to add another reasonably priced vet via FA like Jeramy Zuttah.

IF myers leaves and we resign Breisal and move him to C then either move up in the draft and draft decastro or trade back and draft zeitler. I also would look to add another reasonably priced vet via FA like Jeramy Zuttah.

At least who ever we bring in will have time to get aclamated with OTA's and a full camp and preseason.

If we loose both Myers and Breisal then its time to panic because we are F*#^ed!!I'm thinking Konz in first and or Blake in 3/4 could play both C and OG. I really enjoyed watching Phillip Blake in the Baylor offense.

Double Barrel
03-14-2012, 04:52 PM
I'm not worried about it until September, and then only if we see them failing to protect our QB and failing to open holes for Foster.

Until then, in Kubiak we trust... :texflag:

keyser
03-14-2012, 04:59 PM
I do not like dismantling something that worked well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. An o'line functions as a unit and continue to improve as a unit. When you shake up the pieces it usually does not translate into success.

This. I think the reason people commented about how good our O-line is was not due to the individual players (any of which I think could be upgraded, on their own), or the scheme (though it works well for our offense), but the fact that we had a group that all knew each other well, started together for a long period of time, and stayed mostly healthy for a long period. So, even if we were to replace Myers, Brisiel, and Winston with players that were individually "better" than those they replaced (I don't think we'd be doing that), I think the OL as a whole might perform a lot worse.

I've never been a fan of Studdard, for instance, but his familiarity with the system might make me more open to keeping him (assuming he's cheap) than bringing in someone new and not that much better.

It's worried me how the Texans have kept what seems like a small number of OL players on the roster the last couple of years. I think they've had more on the PS, and if those players have used the last year or two to learn the offense, maybe the dropoff won't be so bad. I guess we'll find out...

ObsiWan
03-14-2012, 05:01 PM
I'm not worried about it until September, and then only if we see them failing to protect our QB and failing to open holes for Foster.

Until then, in WADEiak we trust... :texflag:

Corrected for accuracy
:D

ChampionTexan
03-14-2012, 05:22 PM
I'm not worried about it until September, and then only if we see them failing to protect our QB and failing to open holes for Foster.

Until then, in Kubiak we trust... :texflag:

I'm not worried about it until September, and then only if we see them failing to protect our QB and failing to open holes for Foster.

Until then, in WADEiak we trust... :texflag:

Corrected for accuracy
:D

Hey - WTF?
Signed,
Rick Smith

Thorn
03-14-2012, 05:40 PM
It doesn't matter what free agent we sign, who we draft, or who's the starter. The second someone goes down with an injury the picture changes anyway.

Texaninlild
03-14-2012, 05:58 PM
You seem to be focusing on only Oline, maybe SMith is trying to make entire roster better?

Without the o'line the the offense goes nowhere and no matter the skill players on the offense their talent will be wasted

mussop
03-15-2012, 12:25 AM
I'm thinking Konz in first and or Blake in 3/4 could play both C and OG. I really enjoyed watching Phillip Blake in the Baylor offense.

Love all these guys


Peter Konz C Wisconsin Jr 6-5 314 1-2
Philip Blake C Baylor Sr 6-2 311 4
David Molk C Michigan Sr 6-1 298 5
Garth Gerhart C Arizona State Sr 6-1 305 6-7
William Vlachos C Alabama Sr 6-0 306 7-FA

David DeCastro OG Stanford Jr 6-5 316 1
Kevin Zeitler OG Wisconsin Sr 6-4 314 2
Ryan Miller OG Colorado Sr 6-7 321 5-6

Zebrie Sanders OT Florida State Sr 6-6 320 2
Mitchell Schwartz OT California Sr 6-5 318 2-3
Nate Potter OT Boise State Sr 6-6 303 4

But do you want two rookie's starting in the middle of our OL? Maybe one and Caldwell will look better with more playing time? I just really don't like Caldwell. I was against draft him big time.

welsh texan
03-15-2012, 01:52 AM
Love all these guys


Peter Konz C Wisconsin Jr 6-5 314 1-2
Philip Blake C Baylor Sr 6-2 311 4
David Molk C Michigan Sr 6-1 298 5
Garth Gerhart C Arizona State Sr 6-1 305 6-7
William Vlachos C Alabama Sr 6-0 306 7-FA

David DeCastro OG Stanford Jr 6-5 316 1
Kevin Zeitler OG Wisconsin Sr 6-4 314 2
Ryan Miller OG Colorado Sr 6-7 321 5-6

Zebrie Sanders OT Florida State Sr 6-6 320 2
Mitchell Schwartz OT California Sr 6-5 318 2-3
Nate Potter OT Boise State Sr 6-6 303 4

But do you want two rookie's starting in the middle of our OL? Maybe one and Caldwell will look better with more playing time? I just really don't like Caldwell. I was against draft him big time.
I don't doubt there are some great prospects in this years draft, but, I do doubt the ability of our coaches to wrestle production out of guys in this system early.

Winston came before Alex Gibbs went to town on ZBS, Duane Brown was a slow starter as a rook, Myers, whether its injury or whatever was dog**** for years to begin with, Brisiel was battling with Studdard for a while, Wade Smith came in and performed well but then didn't keep it up this year so much.

I suppose Butler and Caldwell at least give us some protection although I'm not that convinced on either, then you still have the issue of the center.

Its not an issue with either the coaching or the quality of the players imo, I think the system simply takes a long time for some guys to pick up.

dream_team
03-15-2012, 02:04 AM
I'll only panic if we lose both Briesel and Myers.

If we lose Myers, Briesel becomes the Center and Caldwell steps in at RG. Butler at RT.

If we lose Briesel, Caldwell steps in at RG.

If we lost both, Caldwell may play Center, and Studdard will be RG (that's if we don't' pick someone up in the draft or FA).

So yes, panic button if we don't sign at least one.

welsh texan
03-15-2012, 03:07 AM
I'll only panic if we lose both Briesel and Myers.

If we lose Myers, Briesel becomes the Center and Caldwell steps in at RG. Butler at RT.

If we lose Briesel, Caldwell steps in at RG.

If we lost both, Caldwell may play Center, and Studdard will be RG (that's if we don't' pick someone up in the draft or FA).

So yes, panic button if we don't sign at least one.

At least all these guys have starting experience in our system and have been here a long time. They may not have been great but at least the coaches know what to work on with increased snaps all through the pre-season. Lets just hope they bring in some competition if the worst happens via other FA's and the draft. Its hard to see another team making Briesel unnaffordable to us though.

Bulluck53
03-15-2012, 03:20 AM
Myers and former Packer C Scott Wells visited Tenn over the weekend. I hear they are more interested in Wells, so that may be a good thing for the Texans. John McClain was on the radio today saying he would expect Green Bay to push hard for Myers if Wells were to sign elsewhere. The Texans are in no position for a bidding war though, are they?

leebigeztx
03-15-2012, 03:21 AM
When caldwell was drafted, many thought he was for guard, I thought he was for center. I'm not sure now, but I think his best position is center. Butler is the swing tackle they resigned last yr and coming off injury, maybe its his time. They've been stashing guys on the practice squad for awhile nw and now maybe some of those guys are gonna play. Briesel battled studdard for awhile and people laughed when they drafted shelley smith.

welsh texan
03-15-2012, 03:54 AM
When caldwell was drafted, many thought he was for guard, I thought he was for center. I'm not sure now, but I think his best position is center. Butler is the swing tackle they resigned last yr and coming off injury, maybe its his time. They've been stashing guys on the practice squad for awhile nw and now maybe some of those guys are gonna play. Briesel battled studdard for awhile and people laughed when they drafted shelley smith.

Who/why did they laugh when we drafted Shelley Smith? I thought Shelley Smith was drafted to battle Wade Smith for the starting LG spot? Wade Smith won that battle when Shelley was a rookie despite SS flashing some promise during pre-season.

I can believe that Kubiak is confident in these guys to step in to starting roles if need be and perform at an adequate level. Obviously they'd likely look to bring in competition though.

Norg
03-15-2012, 04:05 AM
Whos in panic mode im happy right now we cut some of the fat off our oline Winston and im pretty sure since we are not keeping mario all dat money will go to myers and brisles...Plzzzzzz he can keep him 2 besides we have younger depth at guard 2 brisles better hope he can keep his job come Traning camp battles ...if other teams wanna Spend millions on Brisles ... Then IMO they are making a mastake

Seņor Stan
03-15-2012, 08:08 AM
Who/why did they laugh when we drafted Shelley Smith? I thought Shelley Smith was drafted to battle Wade Smith for the starting LG spot? Wade Smith won that battle when Shelley was a rookie despite SS flashing some promise during pre-season.

I can believe that Kubiak is confident in these guys to step in to starting roles if need be and perform at an adequate level. Obviously they'd likely look to bring in competition though.


Colorado State connection. Hilarity ensued.

welsh texan
03-15-2012, 08:10 AM
Colorado State connection. Hilarity ensued.

Suppose its better than drafted TE's isn't it.

badboy
03-15-2012, 09:34 AM
Love all these guys


Peter Konz C Wisconsin Jr 6-5 314 1-2
Philip Blake C Baylor Sr 6-2 311 4
David Molk C Michigan Sr 6-1 298 5
Garth Gerhart C Arizona State Sr 6-1 305 6-7
William Vlachos C Alabama Sr 6-0 306 7-FA

David DeCastro OG Stanford Jr 6-5 316 1
Kevin Zeitler OG Wisconsin Sr 6-4 314 2
Ryan Miller OG Colorado Sr 6-7 321 5-6

Zebrie Sanders OT Florida State Sr 6-6 320 2
Mitchell Schwartz OT California Sr 6-5 318 2-3
Nate Potter OT Boise State Sr 6-6 303 4

But do you want two rookie's starting in the middle of our OL? Maybe one and Caldwell will look better with more playing time? I just really don't like Caldwell. I was against draft him big time.

You & I are pretty much in agreement, especially on Caldwell. I feel he and Studdard were wasted picks. I'm leaning towards Konz and Blake because can play C&OG. If I knew I could get Zeitler (pure guard) in second and Blake for C in 4th, that would allow us another position in first. I want a WR #26 but my guys are prob gone & it is a long drop from there for me. Unlike most, I am not as adamant about a OLB in first or second as we are not looking starter but more of a Reed type pick only later.

badboy
03-15-2012, 09:41 AM
Who/why did they laugh when we drafted Shelley Smith? I thought Shelley Smith was drafted to battle Wade Smith for the starting LG spot? Wade Smith won that battle when Shelley was a rookie despite SS flashing some promise during pre-season.

I can believe that Kubiak is confident in these guys to step in to starting roles if need be and perform at an adequate level. Obviously they'd likely look to bring in competition though.I was going to type this but decided to look one more post & saw yours. Shelley came with good potential althought he did not show much. He could be dark horse for RG.

What we are not focusing on is Wade Smith's weak 2011. He was solid 2010 but unless unkown injury existed, I am very concerned about LG. Hopefully Gary and Smith have the right guys "up next" but I'm hesitant to endorse any other than Butler. We have only minimum plays to judge him on and this is where we depend on coaching.

welsh texan
03-15-2012, 12:02 PM
I was going to type this but decided to look one more post & saw yours. Shelley came with good potential althought he did not show much. He could be dark horse for RG.

What we are not focusing on is Wade Smith's weak 2011. He was solid 2010 but unless unkown injury existed, I am very concerned about LG. Hopefully Gary and Smith have the right guys "up next" but I'm hesitant to endorse any other than Butler. We have only minimum plays to judge him on and this is where we depend on coaching.

I've said it before on the Wade Smith issue, I can't claim to be any great authority on Oline play but through the bad years I've heard it said over and over that you can't look good if the guy next to you sucks on Oline. Wade Smith's next door neighbors both went to the ProBowl so, whilst I can't give you any play-by-play analysis to support it, I can't believe for a second that Wade Smith was that bad last year.