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View Full Version : Isn't it obvious what's going on?


ToxicButt
03-14-2012, 11:51 AM
A lot of folks are ticked off and worried about why we haven't seen a signing or a cutting of Jacoby Jones. I thought it was pretty clear:

1. Myers and Brisel are a priority. If we can sign either/both, we will and will cut Jacoby and perhaps others when we come to terms with Myers/Brisel and know how much money is needed.

2. If Myers and/or Brisel leave, we may not want to cut Jacoby. We will need to spend a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick on O-Line, not WR. It becomes a need situation. Jacoby may be asked to restructure his contract, but we may want to keep him because we have limited resources.

3. If we sign Myers/Brisel, the opposite is true. We would then know whether we would need to reserve a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick for O-Line, and could feel more freedome to cut Jacoby with the knowledge we have a pick available to use for WR.

Make no mistake about it, O-Line is waaay more important than WR3. It's not even close, no matter how much we can't stand jacoby.

LikeMike
03-14-2012, 12:12 PM
A lot of folks are ticked off and worried about why we haven't seen a signing or a cutting of Jacoby Jones. I thought it was pretty clear:

1. Myers and Brisel are a priority. If we can sign either/both, we will and will cut Jacoby and perhaps others when we come to terms with Myers/Brisel and know how much money is needed.

2. If Myers and/or Brisel leave, we may not want to cut Jacoby. We will need to spend a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick on O-Line, not WR. It becomes a need situation. Jacoby may be asked to restructure his contract, but we may want to keep him because we have limited resources.

3. If we sign Myers/Brisel, the opposite is true. We would then know whether we would need to reserve a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick for O-Line, and could feel more freedome to cut Jacoby with the knowledge we have a pick available to use for WR.

Make no mistake about it, O-Line is waaay more important than WR3. It's not even close, no matter how much we can't stand jacoby.

Well yeah - so that all makes sense... but why was Winston cut before Jones? Butler might be a serviceable backup - but so might Jean be. In my mind we have more serviceable guys at WR that at the O-Line and Jones contract is way worse than Winstons was. So that makes no sense to me.

And I don`t know much about the cap - but how come we get Marios big contract off the books as well as some other small contracts, get AJ to restructure his contract and are still in no position to do anything? Were we way over this years cap in last (uncapped) year? Did we have several contracts that just blew up this year? In my amateurish calculations we should`ve saved somewhere between 20 and 35 million this year with only Fosters new contract and the rookies as new added salaries. This doesn`t make sense to me.

Marcus
03-14-2012, 12:19 PM
:um: . . so what is it that's supposed to be obvious again?

RagingBull
03-14-2012, 12:20 PM
They may wait through training camp before cutting Jackoff Jones, as his cap savings is not that much and there is no clear replacement as there is with Winston/Butler.

Marcus
03-14-2012, 12:39 PM
This isn't what I would call "obvious" but it appears from the actions that they are taking, is they weren't making moves to free up cap money in order to sign Mario, Myers, and whoever else.

They were making these moves to get underneath the cap PERIOD!! It reflects just how dire their cap situation is. As to why this player instead of that player, I think it was just cap numbers.

Dutchrudder
03-14-2012, 12:42 PM
They may wait through training camp before cutting Jackoff Jones, as his cap savings is not that much and there is no clear replacement as there is with Winston/Butler.

I think you are incorrect. Jackoff Jones would imply that his hands are sticky, which they certainly are not.

b0ng
03-14-2012, 12:45 PM
I think you are incorrect. Jackoff Jones would imply that his hands are sticky, which they certainly are not.

Maybe he is implying that Jackoff Jones's hands are covered in Astroglide.

Thorn
03-14-2012, 12:47 PM
It's not obvious to me what is going on.

Either our team management is so bad they can't even project from one year to the next our CAP position, OR, they are simply getting as far under the cap as possible to make a deal that isn't public yet.

TexCanada
03-14-2012, 12:48 PM
I can go ahead and confirm that our plan is not obvious to me.

dalemurphy
03-14-2012, 12:54 PM
Or they think next year's draft is the deepest one in 10 years and they are trying to acquire 5 or 6 compensatory picks. Yeah, that's it. Looking forward to late April of 2013 when everything that has happened this week will all make sense.

GP
03-14-2012, 12:55 PM
I can go ahead and confirm that our plan is not obvious to me.

LOL. Score.

thunderkyss
03-14-2012, 12:55 PM
What do we know?

We know that Mario & 11 other UFAs came off our roster yesterday at 3:00pm CST.

We know that we cut Winston ($5.5M), Leinart ($3M), & Vickers ($1M ??) to get under the cap.

So we've got 38 players (53-12(free agents)-3(cap cuts)= 38) on our roster that cost us roughly $120M

WTF?

Thorn
03-14-2012, 12:58 PM
What do we know?

We know that Mario & 11 other UFAs came off our roster yesterday at 3:00pm CST.

We know that we cut Winston ($5.5M), Leinart ($3M), & Vickers ($1M ??) to get under the cap.

So we've got 38 players (53-12(free agents)-3(cap cuts)= 38) on our roster that cost us roughly $120M

WTF?

I'm sure they are planning to leave cap room to sign our new 2012 draftees. Or at least I hope so. :smiliepalm:

Honoring Earl 34
03-14-2012, 01:00 PM
http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Houston-Texans-Salaries

Here's a look at last years payroll .

They spend around 20 million on Daniels , Demeco , Cody , and Walter . Kareem and Ward make above average also .

thunderkyss
03-14-2012, 01:02 PM
I'm sure they are planning to leave cap room to sign our new 2012 draftees. Or at least I hope so. :smiliepalm:

I believe we've got $5M to sign our draftees? So that's 38 players that cost us $115M..... doesn't make me feel any better.

We only had to get the top 51 players on our roster below the salary cap before 3pm yesterday. Any other cap clearance could be done at any time.

Dutchrudder
03-14-2012, 01:05 PM
Or they think next year's draft is the deepest one in 10 years and they are trying to acquire 5 or 6 compensatory picks. Yeah, that's it. Looking forward to late April of 2013 when everything that has happened this week will all make sense.

You can only get a max of 4 compensatory picks in 1 year, regardless of how many you could qualify for. I would guess we could get:

3rd for Mario
4/5th for Myers
5th for Brisiel
and maybe a 6/7th for Rackers

In any case, counting on compensatory picks is no way to run a franchise...



/Winston, Lienart, Vickers, etc do not qualify for comp picks.

ObsiWan
03-14-2012, 01:06 PM
http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Houston-Texans-Salaries

Here's a look at last years payroll .

They spend around 20 million on Daniels , Demeco , Cody , and Walter . Kareem and Ward make above average also .


Where's everyone else?? There are only 33 players listed...

Tonaaayyyy
03-14-2012, 01:07 PM
Well yeah - so that all makes sense... but why was Winston cut before Jones? Butler might be a serviceable backup - but so might Jean be. In my mind we have more serviceable guys at WR that at the O-Line and Jones contract is way worse than Winstons was. So that makes no sense to me.

And I don`t know much about the cap - but how come we get Marios big contract off the books as well as some other small contracts, get AJ to restructure his contract and are still in no position to do anything? Were we way over this years cap in last (uncapped) year? Did we have several contracts that just blew up this year? In my amateurish calculations we should`ve saved somewhere between 20 and 35 million this year with only Fosters new contract and the rookies as new added salaries. This doesn`t make sense to me.


We got Mario off the books so we could give Arian a pay raise.

False Start
03-14-2012, 01:09 PM
Obvious post is not obvious.

LikeMike
03-14-2012, 01:09 PM
http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Houston-Texans-Salaries

Here's a look at last years payroll .

They spend around 20 million on Daniels , Demeco , Cody , and Walter . Kareem and Ward make above average also .

Interesting... so that list is without our FA last year and without the rookies. So 90 million plus Jojo, Manning and 5 Million for our rookies - let`s round up and say 20 million for a total of 110 million.

Now Mario gets off our books - that 15 millions less. Winston gets off our books, that`s 5 million less. Leinart gets off the books, thats 3 million less. Vickers gets off the books, thats 1 million less. Andre restructured his contract thats about 6 million less. For a total of 30 million. So now we are at 80 million.

The Foster extension should cost us about 6 million - our rookies about 5 million. So now we should be at 91 million. Plus probably some contracts will get a little raise this season.

But still, we should be around 20 million under the cap AFTER the rookie signings. So is all this maneuvering just to get Mario and Myers, or are we really that bad up there with some idiotic high pay raises?

Honoring Earl 34
03-14-2012, 01:12 PM
I believe we've got $5M to sign our draftees? So that's 38 players that cost us $115M..... doesn't make me feel any better.

We only had to get the top 51 players on our roster below the salary cap before 3pm yesterday. Any other cap clearance could be done at any time.

LZ was saying they have about 6.5 m I think . They were talking about the Texans over paying to keep their guys because they weren't back filling with cheaper talent via draft choices . They said what we all know Amobi , Moulden , Caldwell , JJ , Kareem , Brandon Harris , and some more haven't panned out .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Texans_draft_history

ArlingtonTexan
03-14-2012, 01:13 PM
You can only get a max of 4 compensatory picks in 1 year, regardless of how many you could qualify for. I would guess we could get:

3rd for Mario
4/5th for Myers
5th for Brisiel
and maybe a 6/7th for Rackers

In any case, counting on compensatory picks is no way to run a franchise...



/Winston, Lienart, Vickers, etc do not qualify for comp picks.

And this presumes we have a net loss of qualifying free agents. If the Texans lose say 5 guys, but sign 5 or more qualifying free agents, there is zero compensation. Between now and next April you and the handful others, who understand the compensatory process will to have explain this stuff about a billion times.

ArlingtonTexan
03-14-2012, 01:20 PM
Interesting... so that list is without our FA last year and without the rookies. So 90 million plus Jojo, Manning and 5 Million for our rookies - let`s round up and say 20 million for a total of 110 million.

Now Mario gets off our books - that 15 millions less. Winston gets off our books, that`s 5 million less. Leinart gets off the books, thats 3 million less. Vickers gets off the books, thats 1 million less. Andre restructured his contract thats about 6 million less. For a total of 30 million. So now we are at 80 million.

The Foster extension should cost us about 6 million - our rookies about 5 million. So now we should be at 91 million. Plus probably some contracts will get a little raise this season.

But still, we should be around 20 million under the cap AFTER the rookie signings. So is all this maneuvering just to get Mario and Myers, or are we really that bad up there with some idiotic high pay raises?

It really does not take that large of pay raises (in NFL not regular guy terms) to eat up 20 million dollars between 38 players... half a million average per guy.

thunderkyss
03-14-2012, 01:24 PM
But still, we should be around 20 million under the cap AFTER the rookie signings. So is all this maneuvering just to get Mario and Myers, or are we really that bad up there with some idiotic high pay raises?

Word is, this "World Class Organization" hasn't even spoke with Myers about any negotiations.
.

Marcus
03-14-2012, 01:29 PM
Word is, this "World Class Organization" hasn't even spoke with Myers about any negotiations.
.

How do you know that?

thunderkyss
03-14-2012, 01:31 PM
How do you know that?

It was posted on this board..... somebody's tweet.

Dutchrudder
03-14-2012, 01:32 PM
How do you know that?

Jerome Solomon tweeted it.

:kitten:

Marcus
03-14-2012, 01:33 PM
It was posted on this board..... somebody's tweet.

Jerome Solomon tweeted it.

:kitten:

Ahhh . . . :rolleyes:

texanhead08
03-14-2012, 01:42 PM
Jerome Solomon tweeted it.

:kitten:


The same guy that said we were cutting Demeco yesterday. If that dude ever got any news right it would be the first time ever.

The Medic01
03-14-2012, 01:43 PM
Didn't Profootballweekly report us and the titanics are negotiating with Myers.

JB
03-14-2012, 01:43 PM
Word is, this "World Class Organization" hasn't even spoke with Myers about any negotiations.
.

How do you know that?

It was posted on this board..... somebody's tweet.

I heard on the radio that Myers said his agent was in discussions with the Texans, but he wouldn't consider it negotiations.

CharloTex
03-14-2012, 01:44 PM
What do we know?

We know that Mario & 11 other UFAs came off our roster yesterday at 3:00pm CST.

We know that we cut Winston ($5.5M), Leinart ($3M), & Vickers ($1M ??) to get under the cap.

So we've got 38 players (53-12(free agents)-3(cap cuts)= 38) on our roster that cost us roughly $120M

WTF?


Everything was perfectly obvious to me until you asked this question. Now ...I don't know?

Dutchrudder
03-14-2012, 01:50 PM
Ahhh . . . :rolleyes:

The same guy that said we were cutting Demeco yesterday. If that dude ever got any news right it would be the first time ever.

That was a joke. Jerome Solomon didn't say anything about Myers, nor did he say anything about JJ or Demeco getting cut. A poster started that thread an attributed the content to JS, which turns out to be false.

Texan_Bill
03-14-2012, 01:51 PM
I heard on the radio that Myers said his agent was in discussions with the Texans, but he wouldn't consider it negotiations.

And that was generated by a Tweet. May have been Paul Kuharsky but I can't remember.

NCTexan
03-14-2012, 01:52 PM
Everything was perfectly obvious to me until you asked this question. Now ...I don't know?

Agreed with the above... that math would not make sense at all... I feel as though we may be missing something chaps.

Honoring Earl 34
03-14-2012, 02:21 PM
It's time to get the weed whacker out to save the garden .

VTexan
03-14-2012, 02:29 PM
Us having major cap issues comes no surprise to me and it shouldn't be to most of you who have seen the type of contracts McNair gives out. He has been known to pay his players very well but you can only pay so much before it comes back to haunt you. Our best players are some of the highest paid in the league at their respected positions.

badboy
03-14-2012, 02:32 PM
Well yeah - so that all makes sense... but why was Winston cut before Jones? Butler might be a serviceable backup - but so might Jean be. In my mind we have more serviceable guys at WR that at the O-Line and Jones contract is way worse than Winstons was. So that makes no sense to me.

And I don`t know much about the cap - but how come we get Marios big contract off the books as well as some other small contracts, get AJ to restructure his contract and are still in no position to do anything? Were we way over this years cap in last (uncapped) year? Did we have several contracts that just blew up this year? In my amateurish calculations we should`ve saved somewhere between 20 and 35 million this year with only Fosters new contract and the rookies as new added salaries. This doesn`t make sense to me.Contracts were set prior to 2011 NFL season. If we were under cap (and we had to be), we remained under until we started to sign folks like Foster and the LS. We still have until a certain date to meet 2012 cap limits. Not sure I agree on your statement of JJ contract being worse except him not earning it. It seems that barring them just not liking Winston (someone mentioned he was union rep for Texans), it was simply a cap savings of $4.2 or 4.5m. Also, Butler has been in system much longer than Jean & Jean makes peanuts compared to Winston.

Finally, I believe Gary Kubiak values JJ differently than we do.

scourge
03-14-2012, 02:38 PM
How do you know that?


Stephanie Stradley ‏ @StephStradley Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Ugh. RT @AdamSchein: Myers says talks with Texans are more "conversations than negotiations". He is hitting the open market.

Is wasn't "league sources say", it was "Myers says..."

The Cush
03-14-2012, 02:40 PM
http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Houston-Texans-Salaries

Here's a look at last years payroll .

They spend around 20 million on Daniels , Demeco , Cody , and Walter . Kareem and Ward make above average also .

From that list, how many of those guys restructured their contracts last off season and would that result in their numbers going up this year?

The Cush
03-14-2012, 02:44 PM
This isn't what I would call "obvious" but it appears from the actions that they are taking, is they weren't making moves to free up cap money in order to sign Mario, Myers, and whoever else.

They were making these moves to get underneath the cap PERIOD!! It reflects just how dire their cap situation is. As to why this player instead of that player, I think it was just cap numbers.

That's what it appears to me. La Confora and Jerome Solomon said we have less than a million in space, Lance Zierlien believes 6.5 million. They might not be 100% accurate but I'm sure they've tried to crunch the numbers themselves and that's what they got.

We really can't negotiate with any of these guys because we don't have the money to. If they don't like what they saw on the market potentially they can come back to us and try to work out a lesser deal than what they originally thought they would get, that's seems to be what we're holding out for. I really don't think we would just sit idly by if we had 25 million plus in cap space. There isn't a single word of us having any sort of negotiation with anyone not even interest rumors. The Myers talks were nothing more than just "talk" apparently.

thunderkyss
03-14-2012, 02:56 PM
We really can't negotiate with any of these guys because we don't have the money to.

That still doesn't make any sense, We've got to get our roster back up to 53, we currently have 38 players on our roster & are supposedly right under $120M....

Let's say we were over by $4M (someone said we were, I don't know who), then we cut Winston, Leinart, & Vickers, saving something like $9M, so that puts us $5M under the cap & needing to sign 15 players before the season starts.

Or, we'll say we were right at $120M ($650K below if you want to believe that number), with the same cuts, that would put us at $9M under the cap, needing to sign 15 players before the start of the season.

Either way, it just don't sound right. Sounds like a big boo-boo or poor reporting.

DerekLee1
03-14-2012, 03:06 PM
Don't forget the rookie pool, the additional $1.6mm given to teams not named Redskins or cowboys, and the ability to "borrow" cap from future years.

I think the plan was to re-sign Myers and let Mario walk, and hope to re-sign Brisiel. Seeing Myers get greedy was unexpected and has screwed everything up.

Norg
03-14-2012, 03:06 PM
arent we at the day of age were a oline is really not that important ..... well i guess it is two us since we seem to be soooo ol school

but some teams are like screw the Oline we are getting a badass QB 3 Badass W'rs bassically a TE/WR hyrbid and a RB who can also catch the ball and then go pass happy

alla successful teams like the GIants QB and 3 good WR's Nick cruz and manninham

Vinny
03-14-2012, 03:08 PM
arent we at the day of age were a oline is really not that important ..... ask Jay Cutler how that worked out for him the last couple of seasons.

Section516
03-14-2012, 03:11 PM
Mario Williams joining the Buffalo Bills is looking more and more likely.

His fiancee joined him in Buffalo Wednesday, and he’s not flying her up to show her a place he doesn’t want to play or live.

Paul Peck of WIVB-TV in Buffalo talked to Williams at the airport and initially thought the defensive end was leaving. Peck approached Williams and in a drive-by interview learned that he was merely picking up the future Mrs.

If and when Williams signs with the Bills, the Texans may become more active. They've set aside the money they offered the outside linebacker/defensive end in case he changes course and decides to accept.

If he doesn't, those dollars will come free and we can expect them to try to retain their free-agent center, Chris Myers.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth

Honoring Earl 34
03-14-2012, 03:14 PM
From that list, how many of those guys restructured their contracts last off season and would that result in their numbers going up this year?

I'm not sure but I think that Demeco , Walter , and Jacoby getting cut to save Myers and Briesel is worth it . I'd throw in Daniels if need be and see what Graham can do .

Marcus
03-14-2012, 03:15 PM
That still doesn't make any sense, We've got to get our roster back up to 53, we currently have 38 players on our roster & are supposedly right under $120M....

Let's say we were over by $4M (someone said we were, I don't know who), then we cut Winston, Leinart, & Vickers, saving something like $9M, so that puts us $5M under the cap & needing to sign 15 players before the season starts.

Or, we'll say we were right at $120M ($650K below if you want to believe that number), with the same cuts, that would put us at $9M under the cap, needing to sign 15 players before the start of the season.

Either way, it just don't sound right. Sounds like a big boo-boo or poor reporting.

It doesn't make any sense because you, nor anyone else, has enough accurate information. If that falls under 'poor reporting', well...

Speculation is one thing, but speculating with wrong numbers leads to wacky conclusions.

Doppelganger
03-14-2012, 03:19 PM
Or they think next year's draft is the deepest one in 10 years and they are trying to acquire 5 or 6 compensatory picks. Yeah, that's it. Looking forward to late April of 2013 when everything that has happened this week will all make sense.

Compensatory picks are awarded the year after based on a complex, secret formula. From what I have been able to gather these are some of the factors:

1. Players that are cut or not tendered as RFAs and ERFAs are not counted.
2. Players earning minimum salaries do not count.
3. Each player signed cancels out one player lost.
4. The round of the pick awarded is primarily determined by the annual value of the contract signed. Signed players cancel out lost players with equal contracts, then lower contracts, before canceling out higher contracts.

For example. We lost Dunta Robinson in 2010 but signed Wade Smith and Neil Rackers. DR was a true FA lost and Smith/Rackers were true FAs signed. Smith cancelled out DR and Rackers was a +1 for Htown.

Htown did not get a compensatory pick for DR becuase their value was +1. In order to get any pick of any kind, they would have needed to lose 2 additional FAs. Since that did not happen, Htown received zilch.

But, you may be asking: Doppelganger, the Texans did get the final pick in 2011(a year later) wasn't that a compensatory pick?

In this case no. Another NFL rule is that there are only a handful of compensatory picks per year. In this case there were no other compensatory picks awarded in the 7th round for 2011. Thus since picks were available, they were handed out to teams based on draft order until they ran out. Texans happened to get the last pick due to record.