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View Full Version : Anybody else have concerns about our FO


gafftop
03-13-2012, 06:26 PM
It seems to me that our braintrust might have miscalculated. I know they were under the gun to win last year or they would possibly/probably get the boot themselves but was the team's long term quest to be a yearly contender put at risk with the moves they made last year? Did we pull a Florida Marlins and shoot for the moon with the knowledge that we would have to blow the team up as soon as the season was over? To be honest it might have worked except for injuries.

I am not sure and would like your opinion. I think the main mistake made was not trading Mario before the season started last year thus allowing us to sign some players before their FA year and allow us to accumulate draft choices.

I have not heard of any FAs coming to Houston for interviews.

You don't think that RS is holding out hope that they can sign Mario and is waiting for him to come back to us before he acts in FA do you?

Just curious what do you think?

DX-TEX
03-13-2012, 06:27 PM
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/MechDX/texanscycle.jpg

arb729
03-13-2012, 06:29 PM
Without spending the money on JJoe last year, we would (probably) have no made the playoffs. That being said, they really didn't take much, if any, advantage to the uncapped year in terms of moving money around effectively. But in the same light, this is the price you pay for drafting well. Your big time draftees turn into big time players who want big time money. Dems the ropes in the modern day NFL.


All that being said, I don't really know if I'd trade anything in the world for last season. It felt and still feels great finally being respected around the league. Just my two cents.

Edit: Meant to add DManning to that as well.

The Cush
03-13-2012, 06:33 PM
Without spending the money on JJoe last year, we would (probably) have no made the playoffs. That being said, they really didn't take much, if any, advantage to the uncapped year in terms of moving money around effectively. But in the same light, this is the price you pay for drafting well. Your big time draftees turn into big time players who want big time money. Dems the ropes in the modern day NFL.



The Cowboys and Redskins made sure they took advantage of it

wolf123
03-13-2012, 06:34 PM
Texans FO handled last year perfectly. Were gonna lose some quality players because this off season because the front office has turned our team into one of the most talented teams in the NFL.

The Medic01
03-13-2012, 06:34 PM
It seems to me that our braintrust might have miscalculated. I know they were under the gun to win last year or they would possibly/probably get the boot themselves but was the team's long term quest to be a yearly contender put at risk with the moves they made last year? Did we pull a Florida Marlins and shoot for the moon with the knowledge that we would have to blow the team up as soon as the season was over? To be honest it might have worked except for injuries.

I am not sure and would like your opinion. I think the main mistake made was not trading Mario before the season started last year thus allowing us to sign some players before their FA year and allow us to accumulate draft choices.

I have not heard of any FAs coming to Houston for interviews.

You don't think that RS is holding out hope that they can sign Mario and is waiting for him to come back to us before he acts in FA do you?
Just curious what do you think?

I will reserve judgement until after the draft is over and the Myers Brisiel situation is resolved. If we can resign them both this will be a good offseason.

drunkcookie
03-13-2012, 06:37 PM
I think it's been well documented that they expected the cap to go up quite a bit... They gambled and they lost...

Not too worried about them, this situation sure sucks... but what if they had traded Mario? They would have expected the same "value" back, so realistically they would have had the same problem with the cap, so all in all: someone still would have had to go...

Sure, they haven't nailed it and gotten everything perfect, but they've aquired too many good players over the years... You can't pay all of them...

WolverineFan
03-13-2012, 06:37 PM
Good teams lose good players and then replace them with other good players. We're about to lose some good players whom we drafted. Time to draft more good players to replace them.

arb729
03-13-2012, 06:37 PM
The Cowboys and Redskins made sure they took advantage of it

Haha indeed .. I don't know that we would have been that extreme. I just meant paying a bit more last year via restructure if it meant savings in the future. Is that what the Girls and Skins got busted for? I haven't really read into the story as of yet.

Mr. Texan
03-13-2012, 06:39 PM
time to whip out the old friend

http://misstaylorcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/cigar-scotch.jpg

:bag:

GP
03-13-2012, 06:43 PM
Every team has its UFAs. These UFAs have agent. The agents are all contacting teams and fielding phone calls from the teams interested in their client(s).

Rick Smith is just another GM, same as the GMs on 31 other teams. Every GM in the NFL has had its hands full today, fielding calls and putting names on the board (or something like that) to rank and prioritize.

Roughly 3 or 4 players have been signed so far, with the trade of Brandon Marshall to the Bears and the UFA acquisition of Garcon on the Redskins being the only newsworthy items to discuss.

I think any panic right now is fruitless. It takes time to let all these UFAs' agents and the GMs to get contract talks/offers squared away.

There will be plenty of action, it just isn't going to start the first day. It takes time to get the ball rolling on all these players and to let agents sort out prospective contracts and destinations for their clients.

It's not like every team has had its finger on the big red button to make their selection(s) at 3:01 Eastern Time today. Gonna' take time to work itself out.

gafftop
03-13-2012, 06:44 PM
Without spending the money on JJoe last year, we would (probably) have no made the playoffs. That being said, they really didn't take much, if any, advantage to the uncapped year in terms of moving money around effectively. But in the same light, this is the price you pay for drafting well. Your big time draftees turn into big time players who want big time money. Dems the ropes in the modern day NFL.

All that being said, I don't really know if I'd trade anything in the world for last season. It felt and still feels great finally being respected around the league. Just my two cents.

Edit: Meant to add DManning to that as well.

So how do the Pats stay on top? Is it all due to Brady? The Pats seem to trade players near their peak while they are over valued and therby are able to keep their overall talent level high and due to young players cheap. How did they accumulate they excess of draft choices they have now?

Just curious what you think.

wolf123
03-13-2012, 06:46 PM
So how do the Pats stay on top? Is it all due to Brady? The Pats seem to trade players near their peak while they are over valued and therby are able to keep their overall talent level high and due to young players cheap. How did they accumulate they excess of draft choices they have now?

Just curious what you think.

Brady is a huge part of it and they are masters at getting value for picks.

drunkcookie
03-13-2012, 06:49 PM
Brady is a huge part of it and they are masters at getting value for picks.

And obviously Manning at Indy...

Really there are only about 2-3 teams out of 32 who have complete badass front offices... It's not like our's is the only one with problems...

infantrycak
03-13-2012, 07:01 PM
So how do the Pats stay on top? Is it all due to Brady? The Pats seem to trade players near their peak while they are over valued and therby are able to keep their overall talent level high and due to young players cheap. How did they accumulate they excess of draft choices they have now?

Just curious what you think.

C'mon. The Patriots got incredibly lucky in getting their future hall of fame QB in the 6th. They also got incredibly lucky Miami had no clue how to use Welker. They got incredibly lucky Moss decided to run for a couple years. They have made their share of missteps as well such as Adalious Thomas. Their defense was putrid last year and yeah if the Texans had Schaub available odds are they sail past New England. Plus off the field they have a great strategist in Belichick.

gafftop
03-13-2012, 07:29 PM
And obviously Manning at Indy...

Really there are only about 2-3 teams out of 32 who have complete badass front offices... It's not like our's is the only one with problems...

Is this supposed to make me feel better? I do agree with you though. I guess we are just happy to be done with Casserly.

The question is how do we become one of the 2-3????

drunkcookie
03-13-2012, 07:40 PM
Is this supposed to make me feel better? I do agree with you though. I guess we are just happy to be done with Casserly.

The question is how do we become one of the 2-3????

Actually i may have overestimated that number lol..

But how to become one? Don't get me lying... But i'd sau it will take good management over a decent period of time added with some luck... It's only been 10 years with two different regimes... though this regime is "up against it" in regards to the cap, they're not doing a bad job, they do improve every year it seems...

They get a pass from me for now on this cap issue... Too much demand for their pieces, they just can't pay everyone...

arb729
03-13-2012, 07:46 PM
So how do the Pats stay on top? Is it all due to Brady? The Pats seem to trade players near their peak while they are over valued and therby are able to keep their overall talent level high and due to young players cheap. How did they accumulate they excess of draft choices they have now?

Just curious what you think.

Well:

A. Brady is obviously a HUGE part of it.

B. They've actually drafted rather poorly lately. If you look, they have very few impact players whom they drafted. Believe me on this, as many know I live two towns over from Foxboro and this was ALL you heard this season. Therefore, I don't know how they do it. They make smart moves at smart times. Low Risk/High Reward. This season it blew up on them (Albert, Ocho) but they battled through it. Can't discredit the man in charge either. He's a schematicaly (word?) genius.

EllisUnit
03-13-2012, 07:47 PM
they said we won the division, Rebuild time :kingkong:

Thorn
03-13-2012, 07:52 PM
they said we won the division, Rebuild time :kingkong:

Even after we lose all these players, we are still the best team in our division. It does look like we'll be doing some rebuilding, but that's always happening in some form or another.

Goatcheese
03-13-2012, 07:56 PM
We have to wait and see how things shake out, but right now it looks like Smith went all in with a pair of twos and is about to bust.

We could end up losing Myers, Brisiel and Winston in one offseason. That would be one of the most hopelessly incompetent FO moves in NFL history.

All of this when they gave Foster a massive contract when they didn't have to. Nobody was going to pay him $8.5 million a year and give the Texans a 1st round pick. For the difference between the top RFA tender and what they gave Foster in a cash strapped year they could have kept Foster, Winston, Brisiel and change.

You now have one of the highest paid RBs in the NFL and your starting O-line either leaving or being shown the door. Who is he supposed to run behind? Unbelievably stupid.

D1DAVE
03-13-2012, 07:56 PM
they said we won the division, Rebuild time :kingkong:Way I see it we own our division. (for the time being). If we need to draft and keep the talent coming, now might be it. We certainly have some great stuff going on right now. Much as I hate the Hoodie the Pats have made an art out of cheap talent.:thinking:

The Medic01
03-13-2012, 08:13 PM
We have to wait and see how things shake out, but right now it looks like Smith went all in with a pair of twos and is about to bust.

We could end up losing Myers, Brisiel and Winston in one offseason. That would be one of the most hopelessly incompetent FO moves in NFL history.

All of this when they gave Foster a massive contract when they didn't have to. Nobody was going to pay him $8.5 million a year and give the Texans a 1st round pick. For the difference between the top RFA tender and what they gave Foster in a cash strapped year they could have kept Foster, Winston, Brisiel and change.

You now have one of the highest paid RBs in the NFL and your starting O-line either leaving or being shown the door. Who is he supposed to run behind? Unbelievably stupid.


We will probably keep Myers as he is only negotiating with us and the Titanics and I don't think they run a ZBS. We also should be able to sign Brisiel

Texan_Bill
03-13-2012, 08:29 PM
Re: Anybody else have concerns about our FO

Yes......... and No!!!

First off, the Texans did they're FA grocery shopping last year.... And, Oh BTW did pretty ****ing well!!! Now, we're paying the piper, "so to speak"!

That said, I had no idea that Rick Smith could be responsible for (potentially) losing 60% of our offensive line (Winston, Meyers and Briesel), Mario Williams, Lawrence Vickers, Dreessen and other lesser players...

....................


Thoughts and prayers to Andre Johnson that re-structured his deal to make room AND the above is what we get??? Are you kidding me?



I'm not saying that we'll be 2-14, but 9-7 is on the upside...

A regression from this past season, if you will.

SW H-TOWN
03-13-2012, 08:40 PM
I'm just aggravated that we did not even sign Brisiel before the 3pm deadline. I think that we let all of our UFA hit the market (Foster RFA). You would think that we could have signed at least one of our UFA before the 3pm deadline.

TimeKiller
03-13-2012, 08:44 PM
I mean it's like....pretty much the very beginning of the offseason right?

I can't wait for football to start either but come on.........

badboy
03-13-2012, 08:49 PM
I am willing to wait and see how we end the off season. I remember the angst last off season as we demanded free agents and then boom got two very important ones. We are right where we should be considering our history. Important parts such as Myers, Briesel, Williams, Dreesen, etc are now up for renewal. We were unable to draft replacements as we had so many holes to fill. We just came off a good year despite catastrophic injuries that would have wrecked many teams & should have driven us to our knees. Just a few short weeks ago all were ecstatic how strong and yes deep in some positions we were. I mean we lose Leinert intentionally due only to how Yates stepped up. We may lose Dreesen but OD looked good and Casey and Graham should keep us going forward. If we lose Mario, Reed and Barwin should start; let's not panic over sophomore jinxes until we have a reason to. Schaub apparently is on track based on all we know.

We enterred off season wanting to replace #2 WR, get another OG, a back up NT and a back up center. What has changed? Butler will replace Winston and we will probably draft an OT at some point. A combo of OG/Center such as Phillip Blake from Baylor or OT/OG like Brandon Washington could satisfy two spots with one pick.Remember concern we all had when Brown was suspended and Butler did well? He should be even better at RT. He also is suppose to be healthy.

Another excellent draft should accomplish that.We started a rookie DE (Watt) a rookie OLB (Reed) and occasionally a rookie in Tate (missed first year due to injury). If Mario signs elsewhere we should be able to sign one and probably two free agents, ours or others.

srrono
03-13-2012, 08:51 PM
Yes......... and No!!!

First off, the Texans did they're FA grocery shopping last year.... And, Oh BTW did pretty ****ing well!!! Now, we're paying the piper, "so to speak"!

That said, I had no idea that Rick Smith could be responsible for (potentially) losing 60% of our offensive line (Winston, Meyers and Briesel), Mario Williams, Lawrence Vickers, Dreessen and other lesser players...

....................


Thoughts and prayers to Andre Johnson that re-structured his deal to make room AND the above is what we get??? Are you kidding me?



I'm not saying that we'll be 2-14, but 9-7 is on the upside...

A regression from this past season, if you will.



I know its early but I am really feeling down about the state of our team. We lose all these players and we are only 600,000 under cap? Talk about a let down.

GP
03-13-2012, 08:53 PM
I'm just aggravated that we did not even sign Brisiel before the 3pm deadline. I think that we let all of our UFA hit the market (Foster RFA). You would think that we could have signed at least one of our UFA before the 3pm deadline.

Uh...those guys are ALL going to test the free agency waters. We lucked out that Foster played nicely and let us sign him instead of testing RFA waters.

Outside of that, every single UFA with the exception of a few are wisely going to see what they can get. They're no longer under contract...this is like a huge job convention and everyone is storming around the convention center floor trying to get hired (and for more money).

We'll be fine. A lot of our guys will re-sign with us because other teams have their UFAs that THEY will want to re-sign to their own teams. At the end of the day, the most talented free agents might change teams...but your Dominiq Barber and Jason Allen type players??? They're not going elsewhere for bigger money, they'll be back IF we want them back at all.

This is like the peril of stashing a guy on the Practice Squad. Yeah, he might get claimed off waivers before he reaches our PS. Yeah, some other team might sign him off our PS. But the reality of the situation is that teams have a lot invested in these UFAs, and most of them will relish sticking with their old team and being comfortable that they're (a) wanted by their original team, and (b) familiar with the system and ready to go to work ASAP without the growing pains of having to learn new terminology and maybe being stuck on a bad team too. Teams have Practice Squads and rarely do teams whisk another team's guys away...each team has their own free agents right now that they want to keep and truth be told...the players want to stay too.

That's my solace. That's my happy place: Rick Smith made the cuts to set us up to retain the majority of our guys who are UFAs, and if Myers gets stoopid cash from another team...then oh well, that's cash we can spend elsewhere now. Next man up!

Kimmy
03-13-2012, 08:56 PM
Have concerns as in currently? Or did you mean still?

G27RR
03-13-2012, 08:56 PM
I know its early but I am really feeling down about the state of our team. We lose all these players and we are only 600,000 under cap? Talk about a let down.

Unless we have $20M+ of dead money, I find $600k very, very hard to believe based on my research. Reliable dead money figures are the only major thing where I haven't located pretty solid figures. We should have something like $25M before deducting dead money. That includes Andre's restructure and the Winston, Leinart and Vickers cuts. They can use that for Myers, Briesel, other UFAs, new guys, etc.

badboy
03-13-2012, 08:56 PM
I'm just aggravated that we did not even sign Brisiel before the 3pm deadline. I think that we let all of our UFA hit the market (Foster RFA). You would think that we could have signed at least one of our UFA before the 3pm deadline.even if they said no? Exactly how do you sign someone who wants to see what others will offer and cannot do that until free agency opens. If you are saying just write a check, that is what gets teams in cap hell. This is Myers, Briesel and Mario's last contract and they should try to get all they can. Fans are good at throwing around "it's just business". Well it's business for the players also.

We just need to keep building our team depth without stupid moves and we will have a dynasty. I think some of us (not saying you) just assumed our guys would jump at the chance to remain a Texan.

toxictrix
03-13-2012, 08:58 PM
Unless we have $20M+ of dead money, I find $600k very, very hard to believe based on my research. Reliable dead money figures are the only major thing where I haven't located pretty solid figures. We should have something like $25M before deducting dead money. That includes Andre's restructure and the Winston, Leinart and Vickers cuts.

That figure was posted on twitter and was said to be before the Monday/Tuesday cuts.

GP
03-13-2012, 09:00 PM
I know its early but I am really feeling down about the state of our team. We lose all these players and we are only 600,000 under cap? Talk about a let down.

srrono, read the post below.....

I mean it's like....pretty much the very beginning of the offseason right?

I can't wait for football to start either but come on.........

Anxiousness gets you nowhere. A lot of this stuff is out of our hands. Hell, a lot of it is out of Bob McNair and Rick Smith's hands too. No way we were EVER going to be able to dole out the cash to Mario like Buffalo is going to do.

It does piss me off that small-market NFL teams like the Bills are only alive today because of revenue sharing, and there they are paying Mario a huge pile of cash. THAT is depressing. I mean, the Bills get Mario??? That's just bizarre.

I'm starting to warm up to Jerry Jones' attitude towards the Bills and the Jaguars and other small-market teams like them. Eff 'em. You either swim or you sink. And then they (the Bills) can STILL get Mario Williams! LOL. Amazing.

G27RR
03-13-2012, 09:05 PM
That figure was posted on twitter and was said to be before the Monday/Tuesday cuts.

I think it could be up to $25.8M pre-dead money, to be more precise, based on a cap of $120.6M and $94.8M in current-roster cap hits. I believe the $1.6M coming from the Cowboys/Redskins would then be added to that.

This includes all cap hits - base salary (paragraph 5), signing bonus amortization, etc.

The Cush
03-13-2012, 09:09 PM
Unless we have $20M+ of dead money, I find $600k very, very hard to believe based on my research. Reliable dead money figures are the only major thing where I haven't located pretty solid figures. We should have something like $25M before deducting dead money. That includes Andre's restructure and the Winston, Leinart and Vickers cuts. They can use that for Myers, Briesel, other UFAs, new guys, etc.

On the NFL Network around 1 pm today La Confora echoed that we were currently sitting at 650,000 under the cap.

GP
03-13-2012, 09:09 PM
What a shocker! All the TOP free agents are being signed first and foremost. Who would have thunk it?!?!

Every team is going to dump most of its cash onto the top names on the list...then they'll use what's leftover to sign the second tier guys.

I think Mario decides tonight or tomorrow. I think Manning decides tomorrow or within this week at the latest--He might take longer than others, to see the lay of the land before deciding on a team.

NFLN just ran the audio of Bob McNair talking about Peyton, the segment from 610 radio this morning. From what Bob said...I mean, it doesn't sound like we're opposed to signing him to our team. Bob said very nice things but he never came right out and said we wouldn't sign him. He was coy, in a way.

badboy
03-13-2012, 09:10 PM
Unless we have $20M+ of dead money, I find $600k very, very hard to believe based on my research. Reliable dead money figures are the only major thing where I haven't located pretty solid figures. We should have something like $25M before deducting dead money. That includes Andre's restructure and the Winston, Leinart and Vickers cuts. They can use that for Myers, Briesel, other UFAs, new guys, etc.Exactly. Winston $4.2m, Leinert $3m base and Vickers + Foster 2011 should equal Foster. AJ's $5.2 m has not been spent yet. Nor has Mario's $18-20m (depending whom you believe.) Does not mean Texans will spend it or ever give the true figures on cap. I'm pretty good at adding and subtraction and what we know ain't adding up to no money to spend. Let's see how it turns out.

imatexan
03-13-2012, 09:13 PM
Honestly yes.

I am not panicking but close to it.

So far they have not re-signed Mario or Myers, not cut Jacoby, and have let Vickers and Winston walk so yes a TERRIBLE start IMO.

WolverineFan
03-13-2012, 09:15 PM
Honestly yes.

I am not panicking but close to it.

So far they have not re-signed Mario or Myers, not cut Jacoby, and have let Vickers and Winston walk so yes a TERRIBLE start IMO.

A terrible start to the first 6 hours of FA to be sure. The have tons of time to re-sign guys. It's the cutting of players that has me curious.

GP
03-13-2012, 09:18 PM
Exactly. Winston $4.2m, Leinert $3m base and Vickers + Foster 2011 should equal Foster. AJ's $5.2 m has not been spent yet. Nor has Mario's $18-20m (depending whom you believe.) Does not mean Texans will spend it or ever give the true figures on cap. I'm pretty good at adding and subtraction and what we know ain't adding up to no money to spend. Let's see how it turns out.

I'm with you two guys.

These media talking heads don't know anything more than we do. Hell, just 20 minutes ago they were interrupting one another to talk about how awesome it will be to see Manning, Wayne, Clark, Saturday, and Tony Dungy and Jeff George and the Colts former equipment manager all in Miami. Then, BOOM! they quietly use one of their female anchors to break the news that Wayne re-signs with the Colts. Yet they all drooled over the idea of a super team in Miami just 20 minutes prior. LMAO!

My money is on us re-signing the vast majority of our guys, maybe even Myers once he finds out he cannot get the cash he and his agent are expecting.

badboy
03-13-2012, 09:20 PM
What a shocker! All the TOP free agents are being signed first and foremost. Who would have thunk it?!?!

Every team is going to dump most of its cash onto the top names on the list...then they'll use what's leftover to sign the second tier guys.

I think Mario decides tonight or tomorrow. I think Manning decides tomorrow or within this week at the latest--He might take longer than others, to see the lay of the land before deciding on a team.

NFLN just ran the audio of Bob McNair talking about Peyton, the segment from 610 radio this morning. From what Bob said...I mean, it doesn't sound like we're opposed to signing him to our team. Bob said very nice things but he never came right out and said we wouldn't sign him. He was coy, in a way.I thought same. I guess any talk with Texans in it is good advertising but wished he'd just say "Good luck and good health to Peyton but we are not interested."Too much talking like a politician".

GP
03-13-2012, 09:20 PM
And btw, nobody has signed Vickers yet. Nobody has signed Leinart. Nobody has signed Winston.

So it's not like we lost one of those guys today. Apparently, they're not the big time schit that they might think they are. Yeah, they'll likely sign somewhere...but the Texans must not want them back even at a reduced price.

Saying "We didn't want to insult you by asking you to re-structure" is the nice way of telling a guy like Winston that they don't want him back and that we might can do better than him. IMO.

EDIT: Bob and Rick and Gary and Wade have had a lot of time so far, since the end of our playoff run, to crunch the numbers and make a board of priorities and contingency plans for free agency. I bet they have a ton of options, in their mind, about how to solve what many of us are thinking are suddenly HUGE problems. They got this. I believe it.

G27RR
03-13-2012, 09:24 PM
On the NFL Network around 1 pm today La Confora echoed that we were currently sitting at 650,000 under the cap.

I hear you, I just don't buy it as of yet.

I started from scratch and added up the base salary + amortized bonuses + incentives + anything else that counts against the cap for the current (as of today) roster. For the 46 guys, I get $94.8M of cap hit. Add to that some amount of dead money and we should still have a good amount of room to re-sign some guys and pay for our upcoming draft picks.

I've been through the entire CBA and understand pretty darn well how various contract structures affect the cap hits.

For example, Kareem has a cap hit of about $2M this year. Because of unamortized signing bonus that gets accelerated if we cut him, our cap hit would be $3.9M plus any eligible guaranteed money left on his contract. So, the Texans are highly unlikely to cut him for that reason alone.

badboy
03-13-2012, 09:25 PM
I'm with you two guys.

These media talking heads don't know anything more than we do. Hell, just 20 minutes ago they were interrupting one another to talk about how awesome it will be to see Manning, Wayne, Clark, Saturday, and Tony Dungy and Jeff George and the Colts former equipment manager all in Miami. Then, BOOM! they quietly use one of their female anchors to break the news that Wayne re-signs with the Colts. Yet they all drooled over the idea of a super team in Miami just 20 minutes prior. LMAO!

My money is on us re-signing the vast majority of our guys, maybe even Myers once he finds out he cannot get the cash he and his agent are expecting.Like Houston weathermen it's all about ratings. :ant:

Texecutioner
03-13-2012, 09:25 PM
It seems to me that our braintrust might have miscalculated. I know they were under the gun to win last year or they would possibly/probably get the boot themselves but was the team's long term quest to be a yearly contender put at risk with the moves they made last year? Did we pull a Florida Marlins and shoot for the moon with the knowledge that we would have to blow the team up as soon as the season was over? To be honest it might have worked except for injuries.

I am not sure and would like your opinion. I think the main mistake made was not trading Mario before the season started last year thus allowing us to sign some players before their FA year and allow us to accumulate draft choices.

I have not heard of any FAs coming to Houston for interviews.

You don't think that RS is holding out hope that they can sign Mario and is waiting for him to come back to us before he acts in FA do you?

Just curious what do you think?

How on earth would you compare the Texans picking up a S and CB pulling a Florida Marlins type of off season?? That comparison is so far off and ridiculous man.

And why are you surprised really?? Last off season was the only off season Rick Smith ever really went after some significant free agents on the market because him and Kubiak had to because they were in year 6 of their regime. Now that they've made the playoffs finally and bought themselves probably 5 more years, it just might go right back to the same ole status quo of only building through the draft. I hope that I'm wrong on that, and they continue to try and fill holes with proven players, because it obviously worked despite the nay sayers who act like free agency is terrifying, but we've already had one of the greatest QB's in history get put in front of us with interest in our team and we balked at it, so I won't hold out to much hope that we'll be to aggressive this off season. But please don't compare Rick Smith's two free agent pick ups in the secondary to a team that buys a championship like the Marlins did. Not even close.

Mr teX
03-13-2012, 09:25 PM
they're probably waiting to see if mario &/or meyers are going to give them a chance to match thier offers or not. No sense in cutting guys & upsetting players if you aren't guaranteed to get said players back.

i think if mario/meyers come back & say "this is what they offered me, can you match" you might see the FO start cutting guys that we all think should be dropped left & right....within reason of course.

SW H-TOWN
03-13-2012, 09:25 PM
even if they said no? Exactly how do you sign someone who wants to see what others will offer and cannot do that until free agency opens. If you are saying just write a check, that is what gets teams in cap hell. This is Myers, Briesel and Mario's last contract and they should try to get all they can. Fans are good at throwing around "it's just business". Well it's business for the players also.

We just need to keep building our team depth without stupid moves and we will have a dynasty. I think some of us (not saying you) just assumed our guys would jump at the chance to remain a Texan.

I just thought that we would have at least signed Dobbins, Bulman, or just one UFA since we cut various players and Dre restructured. I'm not hitting the panic button or anything of the sort but I am a little pissed that we let every single one of our UFA hit the free market at 3pm. We will be fine just as long as we don't do a Washington Redskins type spending spree and I'm about positive that will not happen.

steelbtexan
03-13-2012, 09:26 PM
I will reserve judgement until after the draft is over and the Myers Brisiel situation is resolved. If we can resign them both this will be a good offseason.

^^^^
They blew their wad last yr in FA.

Even though I understand Rick/Garys position, they needed all of the defensive difference makers they could get and Rick/Garys butts were on the line.

But G-Top called it before it happened, getting rid of MW and getting a maximum return on their investment was the way to go.

The Texans are starting to pay the price for Rick/Gary/Wades decision. I will be happy if the Texans are able to reup Myers or Briesel and get Barwin/D.Brown/maybe Schaub re-signed. In addition to re-signing Foster.

To answer your question, yes I worry about the Texans offseason every yr. Are we going to get the 2006/2009 draft or are we going to get the 2007/2010 drafts?

Texecutioner
03-13-2012, 09:33 PM
C'mon. The Patriots got incredibly lucky in getting their future hall of fame QB in the 6th. They also got incredibly lucky Miami had no clue how to use Welker. They got incredibly lucky Moss decided to run for a couple years. They have made their share of missteps as well such as Adalious Thomas. Their defense was putrid last year and yeah if the Texans had Schaub available odds are they sail past New England. Plus off the field they have a great strategist in Belichick.

Other than Brady, none of that stuff was luck. You can sell that stuff to some newb fan to the NFL all you want Cak, but to say that the Pats got lucky to get Welker and Moss is complete BS. They got really aggressive in improving their offense that season and also went after Stallworth that off season as well after having a big season with the Eagles. They were improving their weapons is what they were doing, and there was no "luck" involved in that. But go ahead and spin it that way to make it seem like free agency is such a crap shoot when we're dealing with players we've actually seen for years instead of draft picks from players on a combine.

And if you watched those playoffs carefully, Belicheck was anything but a strategist last season in playoffs. His decisions were anything but great. Hell, his strategy in the SB in the 4th quarter was one of the dumbest strategies I've ever seen. His decisions in the Ravens game almost cost their team that game as well. I talked about it quite a bit at the time. BB has one of the best QB's ever if not the best QB ever, and Brady's been carrying that team the last two seasons big time.

Scooter
03-13-2012, 09:39 PM
i'm worried, extremely worried, but all we can do is wait and see exactly how it shakes out. i could find a way to reason the cuts, even if i feel it's a stretch (a young right tackle rated that highly by PFF is probably worth 5mil even if a weaker pass pro), but hearing that we're dumping talent because we're only 600k under the cap is unforgivable. if we lose more than one member of our offensive line - likely the best in football last season, unforgivable.

we are young, talented, cohesive, and coming into our prime. i truly thought that the goal of this offseason was to keep our own, draft well, and get healthy. we were matt schaub away from a very real chance at the superbowl even without key players on both sides - and at the moment it looks like we're blowing that up either due to poor planning (cap) or a change in direction (free agent splash?).

Lucky
03-13-2012, 09:46 PM
I will reserve judgement until after the draft is over...
I'm going to reserve judgement until after the season is over. Doesn't matter how bad (or good) an offseason looks. It's what happens when the teams lineup on the field that counts.

Does it look bad now? Yes. These type of roster losses happen. Usually, to teams that win big, not teams trying to win big. But, it won't necessarily stop the remaining players from rallying together and making another playoff run. If that playoff run doesn't materialize, then I may point to decisions the organization made. But, I'm not going to judge the cooks until I've tasted the meal.

dalemurphy
03-13-2012, 09:47 PM
^^^^
They blew their wad last yr in FA.

Even though I understand Rick/Garys position, they needed all of the defensive difference makers they could get and Rick/Garys butts were on the line.

But G-Top called it before it happened, getting rid of MW and getting a maximum return on their investment was the way to go.

The Texans are starting to pay the price for Rick/Gary/Wades decision. I will be happy if the Texans are able to reup Myers or Briesel and get Barwin/D.Brown/maybe Schaub re-signed. In addition to re-signing Foster.

To answer your question, yes I worry about the Texans offseason every yr. Are we going to get the 2006/2009 draft or are we going to get the 2007/2010 drafts?

Steel... I'm convinced the Texans are currently about $30 million under the cap. I ran the numbers. There were over 500 free agents before this all started. Texans are lying in the weeds and are going to be one of the few teams left with a wad of cash.... I think Here's my numbers (http://www.texansbullblog.com/texans-cap-trouble-numbers/featured-articles/)

Norg
03-13-2012, 09:50 PM
Good teams lose good players and then replace them with other good players. We're about to lose some good players whom we drafted. Time to draft more good players to replace them.

that about sums it up

ArlingtonTexan
03-13-2012, 10:07 PM
Exactly. Winston $4.2m, Leinert $3m base and Vickers + Foster 2011 should equal Foster. AJ's $5.2 m has not been spent yet. Nor has Mario's $18-20m (depending whom you believe.) Does not mean Texans will spend it or ever give the true figures on cap. I'm pretty good at adding and subtraction and what we know ain't adding up to no money to spend. Let's see how it turns out.

Seems like the theme of the day is that a lot of mediocore/bad teams with bunches of money have been extremely active.

see Washington, Buffalo, Tampa, St Louis. There have a couple re-signings by better teams, but inactivity early may not be this awful thing that some posters think.


On Mario, I was talking to an out of state friend and he was laughing at Williams going for the money. He thinks that four or five years from now Mario is going to be a 310lb DT who has lost his crazy athletic ability, and will take even the lowest dollar contract because he is finally trying to win.

GP
03-13-2012, 10:15 PM
Steel... I'm convinced the Texans are currently about $30 million under the cap. I ran the numbers. There were over 500 free agents before this all started. Texans are lying in the weeds and are going to be one of the few teams left with a wad of cash.... I think Here's my numbers (http://www.texansbullblog.com/texans-cap-trouble-numbers/featured-articles/)

If you're right, then you will be celebrated for years around here. To have nailed the situation would be epic for you.

I just don't know that you could have accounted for every single item that might affect the cap number, though. I mean, I'm not knocking your efforts. That was an enjoyable read you linked us to, but I am wondering if there is some math tucked away that the lay person, like yourself, might not know about.

If we have $30 mill available, why not go ahead and sign Chris Myers rather than run the risk that he shops elsewhere and signs elsewhere for what we could have offered him ourselves to begin with?

Are the Texans going to tempt fate to THAT degree? If it's their philosophy, it could backfire really badly, IMO.

All in all, thank you for your efforts to break it down like that!

TexanSam
03-13-2012, 10:16 PM
I'm starting to get worried. I don't know anything about the cap and how the contracts are structured for our guys, but it's sounding more and more like we're going to lose not only Mario, but Myers as well. Is our salary cap situation that bad?

LZ said on twitter than Schaub, Ryan, AJ, and Cushing all got raises this year (I think performance raises). He also said next year we're going to have to re-sign Duane Brown (a must IMO), Barwin, and Schaub. Yikes. Rick Smith and company better get this figured out fast. The worst place to be is in salary cap hell.

gafftop
03-13-2012, 10:17 PM
How on earth would you compare the Texans picking up a S and CB pulling a Florida Marlins type of off season?? That comparison is so far off and ridiculous man.

And why are you surprised really?? Last off season was the only off season Rick Smith ever really went after some significant free agents on the market because him and Kubiak had to because they were in year 6 of their regime. Now that they've made the playoffs finally and bought themselves probably 5 more years, it just might go right back to the same ole status quo of only building through the draft. I hope that I'm wrong on that, and they continue to try and fill holes with proven players, because it obviously worked despite the nay sayers who act like free agency is terrifying, but we've already had one of the greatest QB's in history get put in front of us with interest in our team and we balked at it, so I won't hold out to much hope that we'll be to aggressive this off season. But please don't compare Rick Smith's two free agent pick ups in the secondary to a team that buys a championship like the Marlins did. Not even close.

Sorry maybe I was not clear. I agree. For Smith this was the world series and now after getting there he is blowing up the team because of the cap. Marlins always come out of nowhere, win and they start over. I am comparing the way the Marlins blow up the team after they win to what Smith is doing now. I have already stated they were under the gun to win to keep their jobs. I just hope it doesn't buy them another 5 years.

Pantherstang84
03-13-2012, 10:19 PM
If you're right, then you will be celebrated for years around here. To have nailed the situation would be epic for you.

I just don't know that you could have accounted for every single item that might affect the cap number, though. I mean, I'm not knocking your efforts. That was an enjoyable read you linked us to, but I am wondering if there is some math tucked away that the lay person, like yourself, might not know about.

If we have $30 mill available, why not go ahead and sign Chris Myers rather than run the risk that he shops elsewhere and signs elsewhere for what we could have offered him ourselves to begin with?

Are the Texans going to tempt fate to THAT degree? If it's their philosophy, it could backfire really badly, IMO.

All in all, thank you for your efforts to break it down like that!

Well. So far there are no reports that Meyers has his Mangold money. Bad representation from his agent IMO.

gafftop
03-13-2012, 10:22 PM
It seems to me that our braintrust might have miscalculated. I know they were under the gun to win last year or they would possibly/probably get the boot themselves but was the team's long term quest to be a yearly contender put at risk with the moves they made last year? Did we pull a Florida Marlins and shoot for the moon with the knowledge that we would have to blow the team up as soon as the season was over? To be honest it might have worked except for injuries.

I am not sure and would like your opinion. I think the main mistake made was not trading Mario before the season started last year thus allowing us to sign some players before their FA year and allow us to accumulate draft choices.

I have not heard of any FAs coming to Houston for interviews.

You don't think that RS is holding out hope that they can sign Mario and is waiting for him to come back to us before he acts in FA do you?
Just curious what do you think?

Surely Smith couldn't be waiting for Mario could he???

ThaShark316
03-13-2012, 10:28 PM
Can't take this thread serious.

Same dude that said "the Texans will have lost ground"...then they signed J-Jo and Manning.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1735350

So...tl;dr.

Texecutioner
03-13-2012, 10:37 PM
Surely Smith couldn't be waiting for Mario could he???

That is exactly what I think is happening, considering that there are no reports about us talking to anyone else that is of any high value. Mario is the guy I think they're after if they're after anyone big at this point. If you're not getting better, you're getting worse.

EVOLVIST
03-13-2012, 10:40 PM
Steel... I'm convinced the Texans are currently about $30 million under the cap. I ran the numbers. There were over 500 free agents before this all started. Texans are lying in the weeds and are going to be one of the few teams left with a wad of cash.... I think Here's my numbers (http://www.texansbullblog.com/texans-cap-trouble-numbers/featured-articles/)

Okay, I feel ya, but the very premise is dicey, i.e. "lying in the weeds" - and to what end?

That is to say, if having a fat wad of cash at the end of the off-season is your goal, and nothing to show for it, then one hand just filled up faster than the other, ya dig?

The Texans can lurk around and spy the other teams out with great aplomb, but let's say if you have that much cash and they really need a #2 WR, and then all of a sudden everyone is off the board then they have done nothing (expect for maybe the 2014 season).

It is true, however, that some of the better teams aren't really doing much in free agency right now. This could be attributed to multifarious reasons. But, I think the main point around here for me included is that not knowing sucks. And knowing is half the battle.

G.I. Joe!

gafftop
03-13-2012, 10:46 PM
Can't take this thread serious.

Same dude that said "the Texans will have lost ground"...then they signed J-Jo and Manning.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1735350

So...tl;dr.

Read the whole post.

I am also the guy that posted this back in April 2011 before the season

04-19-2011 #131
gafftop
Hall of Fame


Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 54
Posts: 1,014
Rep Power: 1248 The Mario Issue, Let's look at it in another way

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Simplified possible Mario outcomes next season:
1. Plays good when healthy but has some type of nagging injury as last two years
2. Does not adapt to 3-4.
3. Plays great in his contract year

In 1 we get probably nothing or do we get compensation because we do not sign as we did with Dunta. Last pick in draft. LOL

In 2 same as 1

In 3, do you want to give Mario say 20+ million for the next 5 years based on his last year of performance. Say the cap is 120 million. If you divide in half, half for offense and half for defense, do you really want to give Mario 33% of all money for defense? I sure don't. DO YOU?

In reality probably no player is worth that large of % of cap. Maybe Peyton or Brady etc QBs of that caliber may be the only position that warrants that and even then it is a crap shoot because of injury.

The above is why I think IF you can get a good deal in a trade this year you do it.

It is very likely that other teams view Mario in the same way and will give nothing for him this year. I don't know. But if there are teams out that that covet him I think it should seriously be considered by the Texans.

I don't think Aso is a good deal based on reasoning above.
Just my opinion.


I am not afraid to put my opinions out there for discussion.

gafftop
03-13-2012, 11:08 PM
That is exactly what I think is happening, considering that there are no reports about us talking to anyone else that is of any high value. Mario is the guy I think they're after if they're after anyone big at this point. If you're not getting better, you're getting worse.

And what do you think of this strategy. We could really get burned. Do you think we left Myers hanging without an offer waiting for Mario? Seems I read in some post that they just talked to Myers' agent without really giving a concrete offer. Surely not.

dalemurphy
03-13-2012, 11:15 PM
If you're right, then you will be celebrated for years around here. To have nailed the situation would be epic for you.

I just don't know that you could have accounted for every single item that might affect the cap number, though. I mean, I'm not knocking your efforts. That was an enjoyable read you linked us to, but I am wondering if there is some math tucked away that the lay person, like yourself, might not know about.

If we have $30 mill available, why not go ahead and sign Chris Myers rather than run the risk that he shops elsewhere and signs elsewhere for what we could have offered him ourselves to begin with?

Are the Texans going to tempt fate to THAT degree? If it's their philosophy, it could backfire really badly, IMO.

All in all, thank you for your efforts to break it down like that!

GP,

Thanks. And, who knows if there is a huge roster bonus for one of these guys that I'm not aware. In the end, though, a number of things strike me.

1. If the Texans had to purge like this, why didn't the public relations department prepare everyone for it?

2. Why didn't the Texans do something different with Foster if they were going to be hamstrung to this degree?

3. Why does McNair sound so smug?

4. Why are they still talking about re-signing their guys and Rick Smith has said he may do something in free agency?

5. Why not sign the cheap guys that have played for your system if you know you will be so strapped: Bulman, Dobbins, Brisiel, etc...?

Something has to be going on beyond what we are privy to.

TexanBacker93
03-13-2012, 11:16 PM
The Giants won the Super Bowl this year without the help of a bunch of over priced free agents. There isn't a spot on the team that can't be filled with a good draft. I'm sure we'll see a couple of complimentary pieces, but why throw a bunch of money around when you don't need to. How's it worked for Washington over the past decade?

Speaking of which...how can they afford all these receivers when they just got hit with a pretty hefty cap fine? Don't they have other needs to address? I'd rather spend $12 million a year on Jackson and then grab a couple of cheap guys than to grab 3 2nd-3rd tier receivers.

When it's all said and done we will be happy our front office doesn't panic.

infantrycak
03-13-2012, 11:18 PM
Other than Brady, none of that stuff was luck. You can sell that stuff to some newb fan to the NFL all you want Cak, but to say that the Pats got lucky to get Welker and Moss is complete BS.

You missed the point of that post. The luck with Welker was in the fact Miami didn't understand how to utilize him so traded him away. If Miami appreciated how to use him they never would have traded him away. Yeah that was lucky for the Patriots. And yeah what you get from Moss from week to week, team to team is always luck. Nobody can predict WTF the guy is going to do.

But go ahead and spin it that way to make it seem like free agency is such a crap shoot when we're dealing with players we've actually seen for years instead of draft picks from players on a combine.

Don't know where the combine comment comes from. The idea "we've actually seen for years" comes into a discussion about a player like Welker. In four years he had only started three games for Miami. NOBODY including you thought he was a big time free agent who was going to blow up as he has.

And if you watched those playoffs carefully, Belicheck was anything but a strategist last season in playoffs. His decisions were anything but great. Hell, his strategy in the SB in the 4th quarter was one of the dumbest strategies I've ever seen. His decisions in the Ravens game almost cost their team that game as well. I talked about it quite a bit at the time. BB has one of the best QB's ever if not the best QB ever, and Brady's been carrying that team the last two seasons big time.

And thank you for proving my point. The Patriots are incredibly lucky Brady has turned out to be far more than they or the rest of the league ever thought he would be.

Norg
03-13-2012, 11:25 PM
they talk about resigning our Guyz the thing is

guyz like DUNTA and Mario is our Guyz we drafted them LOL

Goldensilence
03-14-2012, 12:29 AM
Well. So far there are no reports that Meyers has his Mangold money. Bad representation from his agent IMO.

When it comes down to it... Myers isn't anywhere near as good as Mangold. We have gone from two years ago to him being the weak point of attack at center to a pro-bowler. I think that's more indicative of a team that knows he's not going to be stout at the point of attack and knows he works GREAT in space. If another team pays him crazy money and runs a man scheme they are going to get hosed bad.

I love Myers for this system and what they ask him to do. I hope he realizes that in the end, he's not fit for a lot of other schemes that are going to maximize what he does best.

Far as Brisiel goes. He's by no means a Hutchinson type guard. He's not going to solidify a team's run game the way he did in Seattle and Minnesota. I think he's likely seen as a nice stop gap guard. He's not elite, but again, nice fit for what he's asked to do here. He can get paid else where but, is he going to enjoy the same success? Well, that's a gamble IMO.

steelbtexan
03-14-2012, 12:41 AM
Yes......... and No!!!

First off, the Texans did they're FA grocery shopping last year.... And, Oh BTW did pretty ****ing well!!! Now, we're paying the piper, "so to speak"!

That said, I had no idea that Rick Smith could be responsible for (potentially) losing 60% of our offensive line (Winston, Meyers and Briesel), Mario Williams, Lawrence Vickers, Dreessen and other lesser players...

....................


Thoughts and prayers to Andre Johnson that re-structured his deal to make room AND the above is what we get??? Are you kidding me?



I'm not saying that we'll be 2-14, but 9-7 is on the upside...

A regression from this past season, if you will.

I see where you're coming from. But I'm going to let this all play out before I make a judgement. I could see Myers being re-signed (if he's not Briesel will be) If Butler can stay healthy he can more than adequately replace Winston. They probably will sign a Salaam type swing OT in FA.


So all they really need is to draft 1 interior OG/OC and the OL should be good to go. Or Calwell can start playing up to his draft status. LOL

ObsiWan
03-14-2012, 03:46 AM
they're probably waiting to see if mario &/or meyers are going to give them a chance to match thier offers or not. No sense in cutting guys & upsetting players if you aren't guaranteed to get said players back.

i think if mario/meyers come back & say "this is what they offered me, can you match" you might see the FO start cutting guys that we all think should be dropped left & right....within reason of course.

THIS is exactly what I believe is going on. Myers, Mario, Briesel, et. al. are probably lining up interviews and fielding offers from other teams. The Texans are holding what cap space they have available for that very time when those guys come back with the "here's what they offered me, can you match? question.

I haven't checked everywhere, but so far, none of our guys has actually signed anywhere else.

If they do (sign elsewhere), then we'll start looking for replacements. But until they do, Uncle Bob is keeping a pile of cash on the table waiting for them.

I don't know if any of you heard him on 610 radio yesterday but he pretty much said, they made offers to all their free agents. They all wanted to test the market first.

Short of holding guns to their heads (which I think is illegal - or at least frowned upon - in Texas) I don't know what else could be done.

ObsiWan
03-14-2012, 04:03 AM
If you're right, then you will be celebrated for years around here. To have nailed the situation would be epic for you.

I just don't know that you could have accounted for every single item that might affect the cap number, though. I mean, I'm not knocking your efforts. That was an enjoyable read you linked us to, but I am wondering if there is some math tucked away that the lay person, like yourself, might not know about.

If we have $30 mill available, why not go ahead and sign Chris Myers rather than run the risk that he shops elsewhere and signs elsewhere for what we could have offered him ourselves to begin with?

Are the Texans going to tempt fate to THAT degree? If it's their philosophy, it could backfire really badly, IMO.

All in all, thank you for your efforts to break it down like that!

Maybe we made a "reasonable" offer to Myers and he was ready to take it. But his agent said, "let's leave this on the table and take a week to see what we can get elsewhere". They (Myers & agent) KNOW they have a home here in Houston. So why not see if they can do better...?? Same with Briesel and Dreessen. In fact, Dreessen has the extra incentive of seeing if he can become someone's #1 TE and get paid like one.

I think "our guys" are shopping themselves around to see if they can significantly beat the offer that the Texans put on the table. And unless you want the Texans' front office to grossly overpay someone, that's what free agency brings.

DocBar
03-14-2012, 04:38 AM
Wow!!! Lot's of panic in the streets of Houston!!
I'm with the hide and watch crowd at the end of next season. I have absolutely no problem with them cutting Winston or Vickers. I am surprised by both, but not really dismayed. I've thought Winston was overrated for a couple of years and Foster/Tate did just fine with Vickers on the sideline.
I want to see Jacoby out of here before it's all said and done.
IMO, the FO is doing a good job of getting rid of people that need to go, salary/production wise. I think Ryans will be handled a little more delicately than Winston, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him cut at this stage.

ckhouston
03-14-2012, 09:02 AM
We will see what happens, but the best draft and FA signings we have had as an organization was last year, and anyone who doesn't think that was Wade, more Wade, and all Wade is mistaken. Rick Smith is a tool and a token until he proves otherwise.