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View Full Version : Why is Kareem and other dead weight still here but not Winston?!?!


marv800
03-13-2012, 12:40 PM
Cut Winston, WTF?!?!?! Ok fine, we need cap room, but what about the garbage on our payroll? Kareem Jackson? Jacoby? Jeff Garcia? Jake Delhomme?

Those two washed up QBs at league minimum are eating a few million, and Kareem Jax as a 1st rounder ain't cheap!

Why? Why? Why?

Trap_Star
03-13-2012, 12:42 PM
settle down, beavis.

Brandon420tx
03-13-2012, 12:44 PM
This isn't really needed.

I feel trolled

Rey
03-13-2012, 12:45 PM
Kareem's lack of playmaking is frustrating...

I would like us to try to get better at corner and really challenge him for that spot...We will be playing some better teams with better passing attacks this season. The rookie QB's in our division will be a year wiser...Luck is entering the fray....

I doubt they cut Kareem, but it wouldn't shock me if they did.

marv800
03-13-2012, 12:49 PM
Kareem is trash. Our front office has a bad habit of keeping trash around just because they were first rounds picks: see Okoye, Travis Johnson, Kareem, and most importantly, David Carr.

Kareem's lack of playmaking is frustrating...

I would like us to try to get better at corner and really challenge him for that spot...We will be playing some better teams with better passing attacks this season. The rookie QB's in our division will be a year wiser...Luck is entering the fray....

I doubt they cut Kareem, but it wouldn't shock me if they did.

Rey
03-13-2012, 12:50 PM
Kareem is trash. Our front office has a bad habit of keeping trash around just because they were first rounds picks: see Okoye, Travis Johnson, Kareem, and most importantly, David Carr.

He's not trash.

He does some things well and he does some other things really well.

Locating the ball and making plays on the ball is not one of those things, but he is not "trash"...

Personally, I think we could easily do better there, but I also don't know how he will have improved coming into this season. He could take another jump.

b0ng
03-13-2012, 12:51 PM
Probably because the staff thinks they can develop Olinemen whereas they can't do the same with corners.

Not that far out of reality. Also, for as good as Winston was, his cap hit was too high, same kinda goes for Demeco and Owen Daniels which is kinda sad really.

marv800
03-13-2012, 12:54 PM
What's he good at? Giving up game losing catches?escorting opposing WR's to the end zone? He would be a backup on about 25 other teams.

He's not trash.

He does some things well and he does some other things really well.

Locating the ball and making plays on the ball is not one of those things, but he is not "trash"...

Personally, I think we could easily do better there, but I also don't know how he will have improved coming into this season. He could take another jump.

Bubbajwp
03-13-2012, 12:56 PM
We have one CB on our roster who is better. So he stays.

badboy
03-13-2012, 12:57 PM
Cut Winston, WTF?!?!?! Ok fine, we need cap room, but what about the garbage on our payroll? Kareem Jackson? Jacoby? Jeff Garcia? Jake Delhomme?

Those two washed up QBs at league minimum are eating a few million, and Kareem Jax as a 1st rounder ain't cheap!

Why? Why? Why?Kareem does not impact cap significantly, Eric did. The others you mentioned are probably gone. No one critiqued KJ harder than me day he was drafted but where he is today is not trash. Better & new coaching should continue to help this season.

Rey
03-13-2012, 12:57 PM
What's he good at? Giving up game losing catches?escorting opposing WR's to the end zone? He would be a backup on about 25 other teams.

He did a much better job at sticking with his man this year.

He is also really good at coming up on short passes. He is a very good tackler as well.

Look, I'm not trying to make him out to be Deion...All I'm saying is that he improved a bit last year and he may improve even more going forward...

With Winston we pretty much knew how good it was going to get.

Grams
03-13-2012, 12:58 PM
Cut Winston, WTF?!?!?! Ok fine, we need cap room, but what about the garbage on our payroll? Kareem Jackson? Jacoby? Jeff Garcia? Jake Delhomme?

Those two washed up QBs at league minimum are eating a few million, and Kareem Jax as a 1st rounder ain't cheap!

Why? Why? Why?

Think the 2 old washed-up QBs were on a 1 year deal. So the Texas do not need to release them as they are free agents anyways at 3 PM

Rey
03-13-2012, 12:58 PM
We have one CB on our roster who is better. So he stays.

I don't even know if I agree with that...

I think some of the other guys could actually push him for a spot or at the very least playing time this year...

b0ng
03-13-2012, 01:00 PM
What's he good at? Giving up game losing catches?escorting opposing WR's to the end zone? He would be a backup on about 25 other teams.

It doesn't matter what he's good at right now. Right now is all about the cap and a little free agency. If Kareem's cap hit is relatively low (Which I believe it is) then he is probably fairly safe from getting cut.

thunderkyss
03-13-2012, 01:01 PM
Kareem's lack of playmaking is frustrating...

I would like us to try to get better at corner and really challenge him for that spot...We will be playing some better teams with better passing attacks this season. The rookie QB's in our division will be a year wiser...Luck is entering the fray....

I doubt they cut Kareem, but it wouldn't shock me if they did.

Has my hatred for Dunta really blinded me so much? I mean I don't remember many "plays" made by Dunta & many around here were considering him nigh pro-bowl caliber.

Playoffs
03-13-2012, 01:05 PM
Lighten up, Francis.
http://blog.chron.com/cougars/files/legacy/Hulka.jpg

marv800
03-13-2012, 01:05 PM
Eric Wright, Brandon Carr and even the hated Cortkand Finnegan will all be available in 2 hours, all are miles better than KJax. Yet we can't even figure how to keep our OL in tact.

Hardcore Texan
03-13-2012, 01:16 PM
Eric Wright, Brandon Carr and even the hated Cortkand Finnegan will all be available in 2 hours, all are miles better than KJax. Yet we can't even figure how to keep our OL in tact.

Chill out man, we don't know how this is going to pan out yet. Let's realize our collective fears before we flip out.

HTown2ATX
03-13-2012, 02:42 PM
I'm not going to rant on anything......but I don't see Kareem as being that great. I don't know if I would say trash..he did play good enough last year to climb out of the trash can, but I still can't see a serious (non joking/not just trying to be different) defense of him.

The best defense (that I enjoy) is how he is a run stopper. Nice. I love my DB's to specialize in that :)

Again, he is finally above P-Burnt status but not by much...

But nothing to panic about IMO....I'm anxious to see what happens here...Texans may have somethig big coming.

mussop
03-13-2012, 02:47 PM
Probably because the staff thinks they can develop Olinemen whereas they can't do the same with corners.

Not that far out of reality. Also, for as good as Winston was, his cap hit was too high, same kinda goes for Demeco and Owen Daniels which is kinda sad really.

OD could be replaced easily in this draft. Wouldn't be surprised or sad to see him go.

HOU-TEX
03-13-2012, 02:57 PM
I'm not going to rant on anything......but I don't see Kareem as being that great. I don't know if I would say trash..he did play good enough last year to climb out of the trash can, but I still can't see a serious (non joking/not just trying to be different) defense of him.

The best defense (that I enjoy) is how he is a run stopper. Nice. I love my DB's to specialize in that :)

Again, he is finally above P-Burnt status but not by much...

But nothing to panic about IMO....I'm anxious to see what happens here...Texans may have somethig big coming.

Neither is Winston. Unlike Duane Brown, Winston never really progressed like most thought he would.

The Cush
03-13-2012, 03:01 PM
Eric Wright, Brandon Carr and even the hated Cortkand Finnegan will all be available in 2 hours, all are miles better than KJax. Yet we can't even figure how to keep our OL in tact.

I know. We should sign all 3 of those guys and Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, and Carl Nicks with the boat loads of money we have....

G27RR
03-13-2012, 03:05 PM
OD could be replaced easily in this draft. Wouldn't be surprised or sad to see him go.

His cap hit is $5M this year. If we cut him, it accelerates the bonus cap hits due in 2012-2014 to this year, which would cost $4.5M. So, Daniels is staying unless my figures are wrong.

Dutchrudder
03-13-2012, 03:09 PM
His cap hit is $5M this year. If we cut him, it accelerates the bonus cap hits due in 2012-2014 to this year, which would cost $4.5M. So, Daniels is staying unless my figures are wrong.

Everything I have read said his guaranteed money was paid in year 1, and there was no signing bonus. Did he restructure at some point?

fiasco west
03-13-2012, 03:11 PM
...it's his 3rd year why would you release him?

G27RR
03-13-2012, 03:18 PM
Everything I have read said his guaranteed money was paid in year 1, and there was no signing bonus. Did he restructure at some point?

OD's Signing bonus was amortized at $1.5M/yr.

ETA - the extension was in March 2011, with $0 guaranteed money, but the signing bonus still counts against the cap.

Rey
03-13-2012, 03:43 PM
Has my hatred for Dunta really blinded me so much? I mean I don't remember many "plays" made by Dunta & many around here were considering him nigh pro-bowl caliber.

Dunta was the #1 corner here and played the opposing teams best WR a lot of the times.

Seems like some folks have a bad memory, but before Dunta got hurt he was balling. He was not J.Jo good, but he was better than Kareem.

DerekLee1
03-13-2012, 03:52 PM
It doesn't matter what he's good at right now. Right now is all about the cap and a little free agency. If Kareem's cap hit is relatively low (Which I believe it is) then he is probably fairly safe from getting cut.

If he's cut, he costs us an immediate $5MM cap hit to pay off the remainder of his signing bonus. Keeping him costs us his salary plus prorated bonus, which is about $5MM. Cutting him or keeping him costs you around $5mm against the cap. I'd rather keep him, as like stated before - he IS the second best corner on the roster right now.

Perki-Perk
03-13-2012, 03:54 PM
I don't know about y'all, but I'm on a jersey watch right now. So far, I've only lost my Demeco jersey, but could lose my Super Mario Jersey too! That's 3 of my 9 jerseys! Watt am I going to do?? I guess the 2 Fosters, the 2 AJ's, the Cusings and the expansion jersey are safe.

These selfish players don't even think about how much it cost us to buy those jerseys to support them, then they run off to another team. Sure we could replace the c a r r with a s h w a b when their numbers are the same, but then it's just not quite as nice.

Maybe Meco will re-sign for a cheaper contract....any chance...at all??

The Cush
03-13-2012, 03:57 PM
I don't know about y'all, but I'm on a jersey watch right now. So far, I've only lost my Demeco jersey, but could lose my Super Mario Jersey too! That's 3 of my 9 jerseys! Watt am I going to do?? I guess the 2 Fosters, the 2 AJ's, the Cusings and the expansion jersey are safe.

These selfish players don't even think about how much it cost us to buy those jerseys to support them, then they run off to another team. Sure we could replace the c a r r with a s h w a b when their numbers are the same, but then it's just not quite as nice.

Maybe Meco will re-sign for a cheaper contract....any chance...at all??

Demeco is still on the team

Grams
03-13-2012, 03:59 PM
I don't know about y'all, but I'm on a jersey watch right now. So far, I've only lost my Demeco jersey, but could lose my Super Mario Jersey too! That's 3 of my 9 jerseys! Watt am I going to do?? I guess the 2 Fosters, the 2 AJ's, the Cusings and the expansion jersey are safe.

These selfish players don't even think about how much it cost us to buy those jerseys to support them, then they run off to another team. Sure we could replace the c a r r with a s h w a b when their numbers are the same, but then it's just not quite as nice.

Maybe Meco will re-sign for a cheaper contract....any chance...at all??

Don't believe that Demeco has been cut.

thunderkyss
03-13-2012, 07:06 PM
Dunta was the #1 corner here and played the opposing teams best WR a lot of the times.

Seems like some folks have a bad memory, but before Dunta got hurt he was balling. He was not J.Jo good, but he was better than Kareem.

Seems like. Let me go back & watch all those Dunta Robinson highlights.

TimeKiller
03-13-2012, 08:52 PM
Cut Kareem...and then your 2nd CB is who? I'm not saying he's an all pro buuuut I AM saying the drop off from Kareem to....McCain? Brandon Harris? Sherrick friggin McMannis? ...is a lot steeper than Winston to Butler. Pass pro just took a step forward, I think ideally that's what OTs should be best at, not run blocking. Butler stepped in for Brown and did well. Jacoby isn't being cut because who the hell is after him? A guy who looked good in preseason?


Sweet jumpin Jesus flakes, you guys need to let some more offseason happen before the sky falls.

Doppelganger
03-13-2012, 11:47 PM
I don't know about y'all, but I'm on a jersey watch right now. So far, I've only lost my Demeco jersey, but could lose my Super Mario Jersey too! That's 3 of my 9 jerseys! Watt am I going to do?? I guess the 2 Fosters, the 2 AJ's, the Cusings and the expansion jersey are safe.

These selfish players don't even think about how much it cost us to buy those jerseys to support them, then they run off to another team. Sure we could replace the c a r r with a s h w a b when their numbers are the same, but then it's just not quite as nice.

Maybe Meco will re-sign for a cheaper contract....any chance...at all??

That's why I still proudly rock my White Texans 02 jersey.

OLD SCHOOL!

Scooter
03-14-2012, 12:55 AM
many or most dont agree, but i think kareem will be one of our better players - if not a great. it seems that he's been here forever, but jackson just finished his sophomore season ... his rookie being without coaching and forced to be the #1 without any veteran or on field support ... screwed. basically a david carr-esque drafted into "worst case scenario", but lucky enough to get wade last year. few jump that much from year one to year two, and none do it without a training camp in between, but kareem went from horrid to above average. by preseason i expect him to be as good or better than a young terrance newman ... he is the ideal #2 in wade's system in my opinion.

SW H-TOWN
03-14-2012, 01:03 AM
Cut Winston, WTF?!?!?! Ok fine, we need cap room, but what about the garbage on our payroll? Kareem Jackson? Jacoby? Jeff Garcia? Jake Delhomme?

Those two washed up QBs at league minimum are eating a few million, and Kareem Jax as a 1st rounder ain't cheap!

Why? Why? Why?

I would say because Allen is a UFA, we have a bunch of guys with no experience behind Jackson on the depth chart, and they seem intent on keeping Quin at SS.

Rey
03-14-2012, 01:57 AM
Seems like. Let me go back & watch all those Dunta Robinson highlights.

If kareem were to hit the open market do you think any team would give him anything close to what dunta got?

Falcons obviously overpaid, but my point is that no one is going to overpay Kareem.

marv800
03-14-2012, 02:34 AM
If kareem were to hit the open market do you think any team would give him anything close to what dunta got?

Falcons obviously overpaid, but my point is that no one is going to overpay Kareem.


Kareem sucks balls. If someone offerred a bag of Doritos for him, id take it. Hell, jacoby would probably be a better CB than this slug. Kevin Walter breaks off Kareem in practices.

Blake
03-14-2012, 08:15 AM
Kareem sucks balls. If someone offerred a bag of Doritos for him, id take it. Hell, jacoby would probably be a better CB than this slug. Kevin Walter breaks off Kareem in practices.

Stop being a mental midget.

Rey
03-14-2012, 08:27 AM
Kareem sucks balls. If someone offerred a bag of Doritos for him, id take it. Hell, jacoby would probably be a better CB than this slug. Kevin Walter breaks off Kareem in practices.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

The man has his faults, but he's not trash....

HTown2ATX
03-14-2012, 09:39 AM
Neither is Winston. Unlike Duane Brown, Winston never really progressed like most thought he would.

Agreed on that. I wasn't trying to so much defend Winston so much as I am always baffled by the defense some put up for Kareem.

It's like politics, people seem so entrenched in their beliefs no matter what is clearly displayed right before their eyes that no one changes their opinions. (sorry for political analogy...best one i could think of)

I can manipulate stats a million ways too but what do you see on the field...what do your eyes tell you? That KJ is simply not that good is the answer.

Trash? No. Overall what someone should in general consider good? Also no.

He is good at run stopping, so maybe make him an LB then....I'd like my DB's to cover people please.

:twocents:

HOU-TEX
03-14-2012, 09:57 AM
Agreed on that. I wasn't trying to so much defend Winston so much as I am always baffled by the defense some put up for Kareem.

It's like politics, people seem so entrenched in their beliefs no matter what is clearly displayed right before their eyes that no one changes their opinions. (sorry for political analogy...best one i could think of)

I can manipulate stats a million ways too but what do you see on the field...what do your eyes tell you? That KJ is simply not that good is the answer.

Trash? No. Overall what someone should in general consider good? Also no.

He is good at run stopping, so maybe make him an LB then....I'd like my DB's to cover people please.

:twocents:

I got ya. I think most all of us can agree that KJ got better this past season, right? Whether the improvement was from a very good front 7 or KJ himself is a discussion for another day, but I'm willing to see if the progression carries on to this season. Cutting a player after his 2nd year wouldn't be advantageous for him or the club, imo.

HTown2ATX
03-14-2012, 10:01 AM
I got ya. I think most all of us can agree that KJ got better this past season, right? Whether the improvement was from a very good front 7 or KJ himself is a discussion for another day, but I'm willing to see if the progression carries on to this season. Cutting a player after his 2nd year wouldn't be advantageous for him or the club, imo.

I agree and admit he got better. I want him to succeed which is what is frustrating as getting success from him seems as slow as hand squeezing olive oil out of an olive.

He did play better and I would like to see him in this scheme a second year, but KJ was so far below par IMO for what a DB should be that even with improvement he is still below par, just not AS far below if that makes sense.

While I would like to see him in another year of this system, my concern is if we get a benefit of releasing him to keep a proven and better player like Myers, why would we not do that?

Agreed debating KJ himself is for another day, but if I know I get X cap space by letting him go and that makes my Y closer to getting a starter back I do it.

HOU-TEX
03-14-2012, 10:06 AM
I agree and admit he got better. I want him to succeed which is what is frustrating as getting success from him seems as slow as hand squeezing olive oil out of an olive.

He did play better and I would like to see him in this scheme a second year, but KJ was so far below par IMO for what a DB should be that even with improvement he is still below par, just not AS far below if that makes sense.

While I would like to see him in another year of this system, my concern is if we get a benefit of releasing him to keep a proven and better player like Myers, why would we not do that?

Agreed debating KJ himself is for another day, but if I know I get X cap space by letting him go and that makes my Y closer to getting a starter back I do it.

I think we pretty much agree. I think I'd give him up for Myers too if it ever came down to that. I think Myers truly wants to stay here. I just think he wanted to check the market to help drive up our offer. However, I'm not sure we can afford a $ battle with the titans right now.

thunderkyss
03-14-2012, 11:33 AM
many or most dont agree, but i think kareem will be one of our better players - if not a great. it seems that he's been here forever, but jackson just finished his sophomore season ... his rookie being without coaching and forced to be the #1 without any veteran or on field support ... screwed. basically a david carr-esque drafted into "worst case scenario", but lucky enough to get wade last year. few jump that much from year one to year two, and none do it without a training camp in between, but kareem went from horrid to above average. by preseason i expect him to be as good or better than a young terrance newman ... he is the ideal #2 in wade's system in my opinion.

I more or less agree with this.

My biggest issue with him is his confidence. Throughout the 2010 season, Kubiak praised him for not losing his confidence, but throughout the 2011 season, I think his biggest problem was confidence. Watching him (& I watched him a lot) he looked as if he second guessed everything.

Physically, I think he's talented enough to be who we want him to be. Lack of "closing speed" not withstanding. If he could get his head out of his but, & just play..... stop thinking, trust his eyes, instincts, whatever you want to call it, I think he can be very good.

b0ng
03-14-2012, 11:38 AM
While the OP may be terrible at making threads, maybe what he is really trying to say is:

Free Brice McCain.