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beerlover
05-08-2005, 03:25 AM
Excuse me fellow Texans but I'm still trying to digest the 2005 draft so enter at your own peril. Which team really suceeded we'll only know in a couple of years for sure but this was really a tremendous draft both in terms of star caliber & depth in latter rounds. Last years was probably the best class ever and this one though lacking @ the top could easily rank in the all time top 10 (although offhand I don't know who tracks this-other than us)

intermission break-more beer

OK I'm back, I'm going right out on a limb and say that the Arizona Cardinals had the best draft class of 2005.

Antrell Rolle, CB Maimi (FL) the best CB in the draft forget the speed issue this is a man amongst boys, he brings instant presence to the next level, the Titans blew it big time.

J.J. Arrington, RB California a feature back that likes to carry the rock, alot, will be the make or break draftee of this group. I would rate him just ahead of the Texans 3rd round pick Vernand Morency (which means that was an outstanding pick for the Texans) he is proficient in all fazes of the RB skill set but maybe no other key attribute more important than he excells at play action swing passes & screens.

Eric Green, CB Virgina Tech great addition to a need area along with Rolle this revamped Cardnial secondary will be much improved. This kid has the look of a playmaker, has size & quickness if he had more speed has the skills to be a high second round pick reminds me alot of Carrol who GB drafted last year in the first round however with much better hands :highfive:

Darryl Blackstock, OLB Virgina this was a guy I was convinced the Texans loved, but they passed in the 3rd round because Arizona got him with the 95th pick from N.E. He is very much the Antwan Peek project player but worth the selection bringing a sack force from the outside linebacker position.

Elton Brown, OG Virgina http://virginiasports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042405aaa.html WOW with the 111th pick they take a chance on a possible (if his head is on straight) all pro guard. the game I saw him play in impressed me, he is very atheletic for his size and can move a wall down the field creating lanes for his RB (in this case J.J.) so there you have it the top rated guard in the draft falling to the 4th round.

Arizona traded away several other picks but also aquired Lance Mitchell, ILB Oklahoma with the 168th pick & LeRon McCoy, WR Indiana who I know nothing about but does have excellent size at 6' 1" 211 pounds. the point being Dennis Greene has added a possible 5 starters from the draft who could start as rookies, now I can't say that it doesn't reflect poorly on the condition of their team but it does mean they are headed in the right direction :sbad:

ledzeppelin229
05-08-2005, 04:09 AM
I'm not really as high on Arizona's draft as most other people seem to be.

Rolle is a good CB but I don't know if he will ever reach elite status despite where he was picked. The physical CB is great in run support but I don't know how well he will adjust in the NFL.

Arrington, I haven't seen much of, but I don't see him as distinguishing himself ahead of the other RBs in this draft.

Eric Green is a decent pick but doesn't really do it for me when it comes to describing a great draft.

I do like Blackstock and while this is probably just "internet draftnik" opinion, I felt he would go higher.

Elton Brown could be a steal if he gets it together, and Lance Mitchell could be a great pick at 168 if he stays healthy.

I guess bottom line for me, this draft has a lot of (?) marks that if they work out could make it a great draft but I think it's more likely to fall into mediocrity.

Disclaimer: Many of these players I haven't seen firsthand, and even if I had, I probably still wouldn't know what I'm talking about. Most of my opinions on these players are based on 2nd+ hand knowledge and should be treated as such.

Vinny
05-08-2005, 04:30 AM
It's too early to declare a draft class great. The players need to hit the field in the NFL first. I don't get too many warm fuzzies about this draft class. I think it is fairly thin on talent myself.

Every year the draftniks hype up the new crop of players and every year most of them don't pan out. For instance, guys like David Terrell, Gerard Warren and Charles Rogers were supposed to tear up the NFL when they came out of College.

Dime
05-08-2005, 09:42 AM
Mark my words... EVERYONE has underestimated Darren Sproles due to his size. I be willing to bet if given a chance, and stays healthy, he will be the next Barry Sanders. Just as my mom used to say... hide and watch.

beerlover
05-08-2005, 11:42 AM
It's too early to declare a draft class great. The players need to hit the field in the NFL first. I don't get too many warm fuzzies about this draft class. I think it is fairly thin on talent myself.

Every year the draftniks hype up the new crop of players and every year most of them don't pan out. For instance, guys like David Terrell, Gerard Warren and Charles Rogers were supposed to tear up the NFL when they came out of College.

2003 was a much weaker draft class in my opinion, 2005 will prove to add plenty of future NFL stars, just right now at this point its too early to tell which ones. my resoning is not based upon my lifetime of watching football but mostly on the health and state of football in America today, football is king. more attention, more money, more players stay in school and get an education hence College (farm system) remains intact, healthy & worth the effort to scout. I'm a huge College football nut as these young men develop into pro caliber players, they added a 12th game for a reason (one more chance for you to watch your favorite team/player) the talent pool is ascending, the Combine as well as the draft are becomming major events worth bidding for, overall the NFL draft class for the foreseable future is gonna be stronger not "fairly thin on talent".

Huge
05-08-2005, 12:27 PM
Mark my words... EVERYONE has underestimated Darren Sproles due to his size. I be willing to bet if given a chance, and stays healthy, he will be the next Barry Sanders. Just as my mom used to say... hide and watch.

How much would you be willing to bet? I'll even give you 10 to 1 odds. ;)

WildBlackBear32
05-08-2005, 12:28 PM
I agree Arizona had a strong class. They also made some of the best UDFA pickups with Shazor, King, Holiday and Bergen.

I also believe the Cowboys had a very very good draft as well.

Dime
05-08-2005, 02:40 PM
How much would you be willing to bet? I'll even give you 10 to 1 odds. ;)


Put me down for $100

Vinny
05-08-2005, 02:48 PM
2003 was a much weaker draft class in my opinion, 2005 will prove to add plenty of future NFL stars, just right now at this point its too early to tell which ones. my resoning is not based upon my lifetime of watching football but mostly on the health and state of football in America today, football is king. more attention, more money, more players stay in school and get an education hence College (farm system) remains intact, healthy & worth the effort to scout. I'm a huge College football nut as these young men develop into pro caliber players, they added a 12th game for a reason (one more chance for you to watch your favorite team/player) the talent pool is ascending, the Combine as well as the draft are becomming major events worth bidding for, overall the NFL draft class for the foreseable future is gonna be stronger not "fairly thin on talent".I've been a deep fan of the NFL in parts of 4 decades. The players aren't better just because it is 2004. They didn't add a 12th game because the players were so good....they added another game because they want more money. I've seen much, much more impressive draft classes in the past. Just because some of these guys dominated players that could never sniff the NFL doesn't mean they will dominate players at the next level. It will take a few years to see how this class pans out but I think it will not be much better than the 2002 class overall.

Huge
05-08-2005, 03:59 PM
Put me down for $100

Done deal.

If Darren Sproles accounts for the following over the next 10 years:

1. 15,269 or more career rushing yards
2. 99 or more career rushing TDs
3. One, 2,000 yard rushing season
4. Average 5 yards per carry or more for his career.
5. Elected to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot.

I will gladly give you $1,000.00.

If not, I will expect my $100. :)

swtbound07
05-08-2005, 04:40 PM
can i put a 20 on that deal? thems good odds

beerlover
05-08-2005, 05:42 PM
I've been a deep fan of the NFL in parts of 4 decades. The players aren't better just because it is 2004. They didn't add a 12th game because the players were so good....they added another game because they want more money. I've seen much, much more impressive draft classes in the past. Just because some of these guys dominated players that could never sniff the NFL doesn't mean they will dominate players at the next level. It will take a few years to see how this class pans out but I think it will not be much better than the 2002 class overall.

i believe i've got the same four decades V :bomb:

did i not mention the money issue and that its growing which is exactly why football is such big buisness and drawing more talented, motivated players as a result :confused:

where you really lost me is The players aren't better just because it is 2004. its now 2005 V which is the draft class you question as being thin, everyone feels 2004 was a bumper crop. Charles Rogers was drafted in 2003, David Terrell & Gerald Warren 2001, its not difficult to find winners and losers in any draft if you want to but it does show just how weak those years where. heck look at what the Texans had to choose from in 02, with all those high picks how many players actually became starters on an expansion team which needed everything. its expected that the 2006 draft class will be even better the point is the athletes are getting better, there is more money and the drafts are becoming bigger/better as well.

I would like to just say a big thanks for helping fuel our interest in the draft, your tireless attention to news & events plus all the draft activites. i respect your insight and evaulations. but you must admit the talent is deeper, the College Season despite all NCAA attempts is growing along with revenue. from the Senior bowl, the combine, pro days to the draft its as though a cottage industry has grown overnight. fans want & demand more information so they get it, right here alot of times at HoustonTexans.com......

Now back to subject who do you feel had the best draft class & why?

wags
05-08-2005, 06:18 PM
Now back to subject who do you feel had the best draft class & why?

Carolina Panthers

Davis was the number one safety and linebacker on certain boards.
Eric Shelton is a solid back and Stefan Leflors is a solid QB.

Dallas Cowboys

They got three guys who could immediately impact their defense: Ware, Spears, and Burnett. Then throw in the Barber and Canty picks and you got a pretty solid class.

Cleveland Browns

They got three guys who will be eventual starters. Edwards will start immediately and Pool and Frye could start soon. Perkins will help them on special teams.

Human Highlight Reel
05-08-2005, 06:33 PM
In my opinion it's a toss up between..

Arizona Cardinals and the Cleveland Browns.

aj.
05-08-2005, 07:02 PM
I think Arizona, Minnesota and San Diego had great drafts (SD even with the Merriman thing) and I've been a deep fan of the NFL for parts of five decades. :yap

F-minus67
05-08-2005, 07:39 PM
You have to give the Cards and Denny Green a lot of credit, Rolle can start right away and will most likely make an impact, Arrington will be a good starter but I don't think he will be great, Green will be a good player if he can keep himself in check, Blackstock will have a rookie season like Dansby did, Brown remids me of Larry Allen and if he is half as good as Allen he won't have any problem in the pros.

Porky
05-08-2005, 07:44 PM
I thought Arizona, Dallas, and Minnesota helped themselves the best. Honorable mentions go to Miami, SD, Carolina, Atlanta, Cleveland, Chicago, and Philadelphia. All of the above helped themselves considerably in this draft.

The worst imo were Green Bay, and Washington (what are they smoking in DC), with honorable mentions to New Orleans, St. Louis, and Oakland.

beerlover
05-08-2005, 08:22 PM
I think Arizona, Minnesota and San Diego had great drafts (SD even with the Merriman thing)

both the Vikings & Chargers should have great drafts with two 1st round picks & throw in the Cowboys too! Actually of those three teams I like the Cowboys draft better with Demarcus Ware, Marcus Spears, Kevin Burnett, Marion Barber, Chris Canty (stands over 6'7" could be the steal of the draft remember Ed Too Tall Jones the 1st overall pick in 74?) Justin Beriault, Rob Petitti (excellent tackle prospect) & Jay Ratliff


and I've been a deep fan of the NFL for parts of five decades. :yap

ya da man :bowdown:

beerlover
05-08-2005, 08:30 PM
I thought Arizona, Dallas, and Minnesota helped themselves the best. Honorable mentions go to Miami, SD, Carolina, Atlanta, Cleveland, Chicago, and Philadelphia. All of the above helped themselves considerably in this draft.

The worst imo were Green Bay, and Washington (what are they smoking in DC), with honorable mentions to New Orleans, St. Louis, and Oakland.

both GB & Washington needed a franchise QB. notice that Rogers lasted till GB's pick then the Redskins were forced to trade up (maybe in their own minds) to get their man Jason Campbell who could wind up being a better pro than Aaron. reminds me alot of Warren Moon. in general terms I agree with your marks :thumbup

beerlover
05-08-2005, 08:37 PM
Done deal.

If Darren Sproles accounts for the following over the next 10 years:

1. 15,269 or more career rushing yards
2. 99 or more career rushing TDs
3. One, 2,000 yard rushing season
4. Average 5 yards per carry or more for his career.
5. Elected to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot.

I will gladly give you $1,000.00.

If not, I will expect my $100. :)

Huge I've noticed a sizable upgrade in your posting since the draft, I guess you still haven't come down from the Cowboys best draft in years, thats a good thing because I enjoy your debates, candor spiced with scarcasm :brickwall

thegr8fan
05-08-2005, 11:34 PM
Both the Bills and the Rams lost their third round picks for an estimated 4-6 months due to major injuries during their team's respective mini-camps.

given that this happened I don't hold Merriman's decision against him. So I think San Diego comes out on top,IMHO.

and oh yeah, put me in the 'been a fan for 4 decades' group' also, but MINE have crossed a span of 2 different centuries. :thankyou: :dancing:

beerlover
05-09-2005, 12:20 AM
Scott Wright of NFL Countdown fame is usually a good read, here is some nice work he has been doing which addresses this same topic http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/review/reviews.html he is carefully crafting & adding more teams daily, address any of these reviews that would be cool too :cool:

almost forgot, welcome to the group :grouphug:

thegr8fan

beerlover
05-09-2005, 08:19 AM
Best draft of 2005?

Relief Pitcher - Samuel Adams

:dance:

lol :drool:

Patriot if you like that one try Saint Arnold Amber the next time, its much fresher (made right here in Houston) has a nice hoppy profile with malty character :homer:

did you check out Scotts New England review? they did a good job addressing the O-Line, Mankins is a good one, Kaczur is one of the better unknown Guard prospects. Seems they are serious about protecting their franchise QB along with his new 60 million $$,$$$,$$$ contract.

Porky
05-09-2005, 11:43 AM
both GB & Washington needed a franchise QB. notice that Rogers lasted till GB's pick then the Redskins were forced to trade up (maybe in their own minds) to get their man Jason Campbell who could wind up being a better pro than Aaron. reminds me alot of Warren Moon. in general terms I agree with your marks :thumbup

In GB's case, I cannot totally fault them for picking Rodgers at that point. In the long term, it may work out. He may be a good value from a draft position perspective, but when you consider that Favre is nearing the end of his career, I would think they would have preferred to gear up for one last run. You know you have a future HOF QB in Favre. Why not look for an impact player on D? In the second, they picked a corner who is raw, and will have to be slowly worked in to the rotation. They will finish last in the division imo this year. The pack may be back, but not in 2005. Minn, Det, and Chi all made major progress in the offseason. GB went into reverse imo.

As to Washington, they gave up a 3rd this year, and there 1st and 4th's nesxt year to acquire a QB this year? Why? They have Brunell, Ramsey, and had Hasselback as #3. Why not give Ramsey one good full year as the starter, then reassess where you are. Why the rush to give up so much now for a QB they may not even need? It's not like they were desperate for one. They had three capable qb's. I don't get that move at all.

beerlover
05-09-2005, 04:11 PM
As to Washington, they gave up a 3rd this year, and there 1st and 4th's nesxt year to acquire a QB this year? Why? They have Brunell, Ramsey, and had Hasselback as #3. Why not give Ramsey one good full year as the starter, then reassess where you are. Why the rush to give up so much now for a QB they may not even need? It's not like they were desperate for one. They had three capable qb's. I don't get that move at all.

I agree with you that it makes no sense as it stands, but there must be more moves to follow that will help sort that mess out. that Brunell will be probably cut (don't know the structure of his contract, if that would even save cap space) and Ramsey in some trade we don't know about regaining at least a 2nd round pick with Hasselback as their starting QB until Campbell is ready might be a workable resolution :rolleyes:

Porky
05-09-2005, 04:36 PM
I agree with you that it makes no sense as it stands, but there must be more moves to follow that will help sort that mess out. that Brunell will be probably cut (don't know the structure of his contract, if that would even save cap space) and Ramsey in some trade we don't know about regaining at least a 2nd round pick with Hasselback as their starting QB until Campbell is ready might be a workable resolution :rolleyes:

Well, at least part of your theory is down the drain, because they released Hasselback. I just don't get the panic to trade that many picks to get an unproven commodity. Ramsey may not be the second coming, but then again, he has never had a full season with anything close to a decent line in front of him. Why not at least give him the chance to succeed. If it fails, they will be lousy again this year, and they would have a lilely top 10 pick to choose a QB or premium LT. Now, Denver gets that opportunity. Could it be there is no master plan? Sometimes, people are just screwups. Look at the owner and GM. Cerrato got reamed by Denver again! Just call the owner and GM, Screwups 1A, and 1B.

Texas_Thrill
05-09-2005, 05:49 PM
Put me down for 10,000 on the Sproles Odds. Papa need another house.

I think Arizona and Dallas had the best drafts. Dennis Green knows OFF so I trust his Arrington pick. The fact that he picked any kind of Defense shocks me and impresses me all the same.

threetoedpete
05-11-2005, 08:47 AM
I believe SD got just enough help on D to get themselves into a title game.
The Key is how soon can Phillips get Merriman on line. There will be a learning curve I believe.


My uncle use to take me to Jeppison and watch the Old Oilers. I guess it took. Humble vs Spring 1962, Lee vs
Gallena Park 1963, doesn't get any better than that.


I think Arizona, Minnesota and San Diego had great drafts (SD even with the Merriman thing) and I've been a deep fan of the NFL for parts of five decades. :yap

royce1054
05-11-2005, 08:53 AM
the problem with Arizona is they are going to start a bunch of rookies i think maybe next year or 2007 they will win the NFC West. I just think they are a year or 2 away. this year 6-10 or 7-9 seems good for them. I think Saint Louis will win the division. and Seattle will come in second at.

Minnesota is verymuch improved. they will have to fight with Detriot who will also be very good this year.. i just think it depends on wheither it will be Harrington or Garcia. both will fight for a playoff spot and i think the other will get the wild card.

SD i think comes in 2nd this year they will have a wild card spot in my eyes. KC has improved too much on the defensive side of the ball not to win the division. Obcouorse this is barring injury.

Ravens_52
05-11-2005, 06:12 PM
Best - Arizona

Worst - Denver

Huge
09-11-2006, 10:25 PM
For an up-to-date comparison...

Darren Sproles through 1 season:
8 carries, 50 yards, 0 TDs, 3 receptions, 10 yards, 0 TDs

Barry Sanders through 1 season:
280 carries, 1,470 yards, 14 TDs, 24 receptions, 282 yards, 0 TDs

9 more years to go...

Cgold
09-12-2006, 10:15 AM
well i only know one thing for certain about the last few drafts.. the lions def. came out on top of the league with their last few #1 picks..

:ok: :yahoo: