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View Full Version : John Madden says "treat QBs like Kickers"


IDEXAN
03-08-2012, 06:55 AM
In fact, the Saints bounty investigation has Madden, the Hall of Fame coach who had a three-decade career as a broadcaster, telling Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times that heís more certain than ever that quarterbacks need more protection. As co-chair of the safety panel that advises NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, Madden would favor changing the roughing the passer rule to make it more like roughing the kicker: Once the quarterback has released the ball, you canít touch him.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/08/john-madden-says-more-protection-of-quarterbacks-is-needed/
Put a Dress on him ?

SheTexan
03-08-2012, 07:47 AM
In fact, the Saints bounty investigation has Madden, the Hall of Fame coach who had a three-decade career as a broadcaster, telling Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times that heís more certain than ever that quarterbacks need more protection. As co-chair of the safety panel that advises NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, Madden would favor changing the roughing the passer rule to make it more like roughing the kicker: Once the quarterback has released the ball, you canít touch him.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/08/john-madden-says-more-protection-of-quarterbacks-is-needed/
Put a Dress on him ?

That's just freaking BS!! What are ya suppose to do? Make a complete STOP in your tracks when you're going full speed ahead? That's just crazy thinking IMHO!! BUT, the almighty John Madden said it, so I guess it'll become fact!! Pretty soon there won't be any SACK stats cause the poor little QBs might get hurt!! Geeeeezzzz! Might as well just make this NFL flag football!!

welsh texan
03-08-2012, 08:33 AM
That's just freaking BS!! What are ya suppose to do? Make a complete STOP in your tracks when you're going full speed ahead? That's just crazy thinking IMHO!! BUT, the almighty John Madden said it, so I guess it'll become fact!! Pretty soon there won't be any SACK stats cause the poor little QBs might get hurt!! Geeeeezzzz! Might as well just make this NFL flag football!!

The NFL have been trialling this this rule change for some time on Tom Brady.

Playoffs
03-08-2012, 08:45 AM
Put little tear away flags on their hips!

:wadepalm:

Texan4Ever
03-08-2012, 09:06 AM
That's just freaking BS!! What are ya suppose to do? Make a complete STOP in your tracks when you're going full speed ahead? That's just crazy thinking IMHO!! BUT, the almighty John Madden said it, so I guess it'll become fact!! Pretty soon there won't be any SACK stats cause the poor little QBs might get hurt!! Geeeeezzzz! Might as well just make this NFL flag football!!


IDK about other players but when I played in high school, I found it really easy to stop myself once the QB had released the ball. Of course I was only 5'10" 170-lbs so maybe that's why?

Say Watt
03-08-2012, 10:36 AM
IDK about other players but when I played in high school, I found it really easy to stop myself once the QB had released the ball. Of course I was only 5'10" 170-lbs so maybe that's why?

And you ran what, a 4.8 40? These guys are running 4.5 at 250 lbs. Just a tad bit harder to stop your momentum.

Vinny
03-08-2012, 10:48 AM
And you ran what, a 4.8 40? These guys are running 4.5 at 250 lbs. Just a tad bit harder to stop your momentum.
thats why everyone runs into the kicker right?

Say Watt
03-08-2012, 11:00 AM
thats why everyone runs into the kicker right?

Sometimes, yes. But the kicker rarely gets run into. Guys are typically falling down trying to block the ball not hit the kicker. With the QB, the defenders are actively trying to sack the QB, make him fumble, etc. Very few defensive players are actively trying to bat the ball down, which is another reason Watt is so special. He is a rarity.

Vinny
03-08-2012, 11:19 AM
just yanking yer chain a bit. :doot:

2012Champs
03-08-2012, 11:22 AM
thats why everyone runs into the kicker right?



I dont think many people attempt to tackle kickers :kitten:

Dutchrudder
03-08-2012, 11:26 AM
The punter is in a completely different position when kicking than a QB who's throwing the ball. Every punter exposes their plant leg when kicking the ball, every single time they punt. It's locked straight up, and force coming from the front hitting that leg can easily lead to injury. It doesn't bend backwards, and it is in a very vulnerable position. That's why they made that rule, it was to protect their plant leg mostly, but also to prevent the guy from getting laid out for no reason.

QBs on the other hand have much more control over their position in or out of the pocket, the way they take hits, and whether or not they throw the ball away. They are much more mobile and unpredictable. Making a rule like this would just lead to lots of pump fakes that make defenders miss because they want to avoid the 15 yard penalty. It would completely change the pass rush. I'm all for flagging hits below the knee on QBs (Brady rule) as it's kind of the same thing that they try to protect on kickers, but there are plenty of times when contact is made just as the ball is released. I think things are fine the way they are since they fixed the "blow to the QB's head" rule.

Say Watt
03-08-2012, 11:29 AM
just yanking yer chain a bit. :doot:

msr

SheTexan
03-08-2012, 11:30 AM
just yanking yer chain a bit. :doot:

I had a feeling you were "stirring the pot" a little Vinny! I had a nice LONG response to the wuzzification of the NFL all ready to post, then decided to delete! :)

BTW: How can anyone PROVE Peyton Manning's injury came from playing football? Sure, it probably did, BUT, he was around for 13 yrs before the injury bug hit him bigtime! Hell of a lot longer than some other players who got their knees, shoulders, ankles, etc, shattered in a game!

gary
03-08-2012, 11:46 AM
In a few more years there just might be an NFL without any defense most fans like high scoring games anyway.

Double Barrel
03-08-2012, 12:23 PM
This is business. I do not have to agree with policy to understand it.

The NFL is in business to sell entertainment to the largest number of people to maximize their profits. In order to sell their brand, they are going to protect the "marquee players" that are part of marketing the NFL product. And those players are QBs.

Like it or not, this is clearly transforming the style of football that we will see in the future. We can ***** and moan and talk about flags and dresses until we are blue in the face. But, until we stop buying the product, the NFL will continue to make decisions based upon what they perceive as being in the best interest of marketing their entertainment product.

Ratings are at an all time high, and fans continue to flock to the NFL. So either just accept the current reality of corporate branding over perceived 'integrity of the sport' or be a consumer and stop buying the product. The ONLY way that your voice will be heard is if you stop giving them money. Until then, we just have to live with the inevitable changes that come with corporate marketing decisions.

infantrycak
03-08-2012, 01:41 PM
BTW: How can anyone PROVE Peyton Manning's injury came from playing football? Sure, it probably did, BUT, he was around for 13 yrs before the injury bug hit him bigtime! Hell of a lot longer than some other players who got their knees, shoulders, ankles, etc, shattered in a game!

His brother did have a genetic neck spinal condition which ended his football career but Dungy related there was a specific hit to Manning a few years ago which made him come out of the game for awhile because his throwing arm went numb which is characteristic of a problem in the region he ended up having surgery on.

SheTexan
03-08-2012, 02:13 PM
His brother did have a genetic neck spinal condition which ended his football career but Dungy related there was a specific hit to Manning a few years ago which made him come out of the game for awhile because his throwing arm went numb which is characteristic of a problem in the region he ended up having surgery on.

I remember Dungy saying that, but, didn't he say that AFTER the Saints bounty thing came out? I thought he was referencing that incident to a deliberate hit to injure.

Dutchrudder
03-08-2012, 02:26 PM
The hit Dungy was referencing was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53HkdKDus4

Indy @ Skins, Gregg Williams was the DC for Washington at the time.

TimeKiller
03-09-2012, 07:47 AM
Why is getting hit as a QB any different than any other position getting hit?

Bounties aside, don't they already do enough to protect the QBs? Especially guy's like Manning, if he turns one frown towards the refs they pull flags like it's what cool kids do.

On any play, on the one Manning may or may not have gotten hurt, any one of those guys could've got rolled up on, stepped on, planted their feet wrong and popped a ligament.....

infantrycak
03-09-2012, 09:34 AM
Why is getting hit as a QB any different than any other position getting hit?

Why do people have this perception it is so different? If the ball is gone or the play is over you don't get to gratuitously try to hurt the guy. Once the ball is gone from a QB's hand what point is there in a hit other than (a) momentum or (b) trying to hurt him? I totally think momentum hits should not draw flags. But c'mon this idea every other position isn't getting hit? No they aren't. If they were allowed to you would see Brian Cushing lined up across from Andre Johnson tight every play tackling him at the start of the play. But no you can't tackle the WR. I guess the NFL has wussified WR's (go say that to AJ). The game has rules and they appropriately (generally) deal with the variety of risks to the various positions.

TimeKiller
03-09-2012, 10:12 AM
I'm not quite sure I fully understand your point. Are you saying they are equally protected across the board?

infantrycak
03-09-2012, 11:17 AM
I'm not quite sure I fully understand your point. Are you saying they are equally protected across the board?

I am saying the rules are set out for lack of a better definition to try to even out the risk. Nobody is out hitting CBs so there aren't rules to protect them. There are rules for the particular kind of blocks members of either line may encounter written specifically to address their issues. Nobody is allowed to just flat out tackle a person who isn't in possession of the ball - you can block (most of the time) but not tackle. Like I said I never want a flag pulled when the momentum is established prior to the release of the ball. But I have no problem saying but for momentum there is no excuse for hitting a player who is not attempting to block and is well outside the area of the play. Generally speaking as in 99.99% of the time once the QB releases the ball his role in the play is over.

And by the way, until he releases the ball drill him as hard as you can and build up all the momentum you can.

The1ApplePie
03-09-2012, 02:33 PM
When Aikman said the NFL wouldn't be No. 1 in the future, this is the kind of thing that will do it.

The NFL wants to cater to fantasy football, casual fans, and the giant ratings high-scoring games produce.

Ruinondd
03-09-2012, 04:13 PM
QB's already have enough protection from the defense in the rules. Besides some really BS calls we see every year I like it. Got rid of chop tackles, and late hits which served no purpose other than to hurt the guy with ball. You know what I see as the most dangerous thing left? Offensive linemen pushing the defense into their QB trying to draw a flag after they've been beat. That needs to die a horrible death.

TimeKiller
03-10-2012, 10:32 PM
I am saying the rules are set out for lack of a better definition to try to even out the risk. Nobody is out hitting CBs so there aren't rules to protect them. There are rules for the particular kind of blocks members of either line may encounter written specifically to address their issues. Nobody is allowed to just flat out tackle a person who isn't in possession of the ball - you can block (most of the time) but not tackle. Like I said I never want a flag pulled when the momentum is established prior to the release of the ball. But I have no problem saying but for momentum there is no excuse for hitting a player who is not attempting to block and is well outside the area of the play. Generally speaking as in 99.99% of the time once the QB releases the ball his role in the play is over.

And by the way, until he releases the ball drill him as hard as you can and build up all the momentum you can.

Well, I guess I'll just have to disagree with you. I'm almost positive every position has definitive amounts of contact during the game. I don't disagree with safety rules but everyone with eyes knows enforcement can be quite favorable for some moreso than others.

Does Madden just mean after he's thrown the ball like...AFTER it's thrown, maybe on an int or something like Drayton Florence did to Schaub? Because that's shouldn't require any adjustment in the rules....that's plain ol' unecessary roughness...

Corrosion
03-12-2012, 02:23 AM
May as well send them out there wearing pink uniforms and pompoms instead of a helmet ....