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Playoffs
02-29-2012, 02:34 PM
AFC Whispers
Texans want to lock up OT Brown

Posted Feb. 25, 2012 @ 11:32 p.m. ET
By PFW staff

Following are some whispers we've been hearing from around the AFC:

The Texans' salary-cap issues have been well-documented. Finding a way to bring back both OLB Mario Williams and RB Arian Foster is likely going to be too difficult. In addition to dealing with guys whose contracts have expired, the club has several key starters who are set to hit the open market in 2013 and whom they would like to lock up long term this spring. Leading the list, we hear, is OLT Duane Brown, who developed into one of the game's better players at his position last season. Next on the list is OLB Connor Barwin, a pass-rushing force who the Texans think will only get better.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/25/texans-want-to-lock-up-ot-brown

Hardcore Texan
02-29-2012, 02:40 PM
One thing at a time.

Ryan
02-29-2012, 04:12 PM
Yeah we should focus on trying to get our guys this year first but i have no fault in them wanting to lock up Brown.

El Tejano
02-29-2012, 04:47 PM
Any chance that locking the above mentioned up players this year could free up money this year for Mario and Arian?

Vinny
02-29-2012, 05:12 PM
no way you let Brown hit the open market next year...you have to lock him up if possible. It took way too long to find a credible LT to just let one walk.

PapaL
02-29-2012, 05:26 PM
no way you let Brown hit the open market next year...you have to lock him up if possible. It took way too long to find a credible LT to just let one walk.

This sums up my thoughts perfectly.

Time to bust out with the big boy check book and pay the man.

Dutchrudder
02-29-2012, 05:33 PM
If we lock up Mario for a few years, I'll feel much better about letting Barwin walk next season in lieu of resigning Brown, Schaub and whomever. If we can't keep Mario, then we will have to re-sign Barwin.

Ole Miss Texan
02-29-2012, 05:47 PM
no way you let Brown hit the open market next year...you have to lock him up if possible. It took way too long to find a credible LT to just let one walk.
Exactamundo.

Brandon420tx
02-29-2012, 07:12 PM
Any chance that locking the above mentioned up players this year could free up money this year for Mario and Arian?

Depends on the difference between his final year of his rookie contract and the first year of his new contract. So its possible. He was a late 1st Rounder, so we'd likely only save about a Million at the most

welsh texan
02-29-2012, 08:03 PM
I think this may point towards Mario being a gonner. Which I'm ok with, I'd prefer to be able to keep him but if its going to be best for the long run then I can deal with it.

If Mario does walk, I think the Texans try and pay some of next years guys this year in order to save them cap space down the road.

Say you give them 2012 roster bonus instead of signing bonus, and take a hit this year which frees you up later on. Could be the best way around our problems.

Hardcore Texan
02-29-2012, 08:07 PM
no way you let Brown hit the open market next year...you have to lock him up if possible. It took way too long to find a credible LT to just let one walk.

Well, yeah....I wasn't implying letting him walk. There is a reason Brown is one of my favorite Texans! I just meant, figure out the Mario thing soon, get Arian locked down, lock down Myers and Briesel and then get Brown's deal done.

If Mario walks, we can afford all those guys, and as much as I love Mario, we need all those other guys just as much if not more!

False Start
02-29-2012, 08:14 PM
Get it done, but lets focus on this offseason first. The dude is a beast. I really hope they can avoid any drama with him like there is going to be with Mario.

dc_txtech
02-29-2012, 08:19 PM
Brown is the meat and potatoes of this Oline. After Schuab, AJ, and Foster, Brown is by far the most important part of our offense imo. I agree with the others in this thread that this needs to get done this off season.

I hate to even entertain the thought of Mario leaving but it's looking more and more like that's going to be the best move for the Texans.

amazing80
02-29-2012, 10:30 PM
If we lock up Mario for a few years, I'll feel much better about letting Barwin walk next season in lieu of resigning Brown, Schaub and whomever. If we can't keep Mario, then we will have to re-sign Barwin.

You would seriously pick Mario over Barwin?

barrett
02-29-2012, 11:52 PM
You could make the argument that Meyers is more important than Brown simply because he calls out the protections except for a the fact that Kubiak rarely gives his tackles any help in their scheme because the TE's are so critical to the passing game. Frequently, they line up tight and release off the line right into passing routes. The benefit is that pre-snap, it looks, like a run, smells like a run... but isn't. Having an athletic T like Brown is critical to be able to do all the things needed in this scheme. Not to mention, he's improved dramatically every year. The sky is the limit with #76.

I'd like to see Brown, Meyers, Barwin and Schaub locked up before Foster and Biscuit. Mario is a no go. No way. Not a good value.

Foster is special and has great value due to his diversity, youth and honestly, attitude, but with out a fluid, Oline in front of him, it's wasted. Plus, he's an RFA.

krocket
03-01-2012, 12:45 AM
It is really a shame to see all this happening to the Texans now. Most of us watched the same thing happen to the Oilers just after they moved to Tennessee and became the Titans. For years they spent time on the bottom gathering talent and finally looked to be in line for the big time. Then they moved to Nashville and everything came to within a yard of the top dog. But then the Cap caught them and they started losing talent to other teams and then had to cut older players that they could not afford anymore. Then they collapsed into themselves and became a not-so-powerhouse team. They are still recovering.

After the 28 million dollar bath that P. Manning is likely to take shortly, I feel players will not be so eager to accept balloon payments down the line. Those so-called 'Roster' bonuses. IMO the Texans are unlikely to keep all the people that got us to where we are and to where we want to go. Unless some big-time trades can be orchestrated where we give older players for high draft choices I don't see how we can accommodate them all. By that I mean get a high draft choice or two for Mario rather than just let him walk out the door.

Dutchrudder
03-01-2012, 12:56 AM
You would seriously pick Mario over Barwin?

At this point, yeah. Barwin so far is a one year wonder. If he keeps it up next year with 10+ sacks, I'll gladly put him up there with other good pass rushers. I think Mario will do well in our system next year if we can keep him, and then make Barwin more expendable. Ideally I would like to keep both, but capspace isn't easy to come by.

beerlover
03-01-2012, 01:26 AM
Bob McNair & Texans have enough money to pay & keep everybody just a matter of fitting them under the cap :money:

Goldensilence
03-01-2012, 01:33 AM
You would seriously pick Mario over Barwin?

From a value standpoint? Yes. I said it the moment Barwin was drafted this dude was more tailored for a 3-4 OLB spot and it showed last year. His skill set and his high motor are what you look for at the spot.

Don't get me wrong I like Mario and would love to see what he could do with full health at a full season, but far as the cap and what kind of contract he's likely in line for. It's better to let him walk.


You could make the argument that Meyers is more important than Brown simply because he calls out the protections except for a the fact that Kubiak rarely gives his tackles any help in their scheme because the TE's are so critical to the passing game. Frequently, they line up tight and release off the line right into passing routes. The benefit is that pre-snap, it looks, like a run, smells like a run... but isn't. Having an athletic T like Brown is critical to be able to do all the things needed in this scheme. Not to mention, he's improved dramatically every year. The sky is the limit with #76.

I'd like to see Brown, Meyers, Barwin and Schaub locked up before Foster and Biscuit. Mario is a no go. No way. Not a good value.

Foster is special and has great value due to his diversity, youth and honestly, attitude, but with out a fluid, Oline in front of him, it's wasted. Plus, he's an RFA.

Foster IMO is one of the best backs in the league because of his patience, vision, and having some of the best hands out of the backfield. To me there's no question about it he's been the best back in the league two years now. He's that special, pay him.

Far as Brown vs Myers. Look, honestly we're what a season or two removed from talking about him being one of the weakest links on the interior. I'm not saying Wade Smith is all pro, but the moment we got better guard play Myers' game took off. He's a bit undersized from the other top tier Center's in the league and in the past couldn't hold the point of attack at the LOS. If he goes to a non ZBS team he's going to struggle IMO.

Brisiel has had an up and down time here. I don't think anyone is going to mistake him as being in the Mankins or Nicks category by any means. But, I think a lot of teams are looking at him from a value standpoint. He's not going to go in and turn around your line Hutch style, but he'll be solid. I think of the two, he's the more expendable one. I'd love to see him stay for continuity purposes.

Back to Brown, draft day I think it was Vinny who called him Brad Hopkins 2.0. Seems a very apt comparison. I think we need to think in terms of long term with him for many reasons. I'd rather see him get an extension now than risk him hitting the market.

I think re-upping Schaub is going to be the hardest call and will obviously really depend on how he recovers from this injury. In terms of what you want between the ears Schaub is what you want in a QB for the most part, physically a guy like Yates has the tools you want to see with a QB in this system.

imatexan
03-01-2012, 03:47 AM
At this point, yeah. Barwin so far is a one year wonder. If he keeps it up next year with 10+ sacks, I'll gladly put him up there with other good pass rushers. I think Mario will do well in our system next year if we can keep him, and then make Barwin more expendable. Ideally I would like to keep both, but capspace isn't easy to come by.

Exactly.

IDEXAN
03-01-2012, 07:51 AM
Duane Brown is MORE valuable to the Texans than Mario ! 'Nuff said.

TimeKiller
03-01-2012, 10:02 AM
Brown and Barwin are two guys who need to be extended before they blow up and make probowls or ask for millions upon millions to do the same thing they were doing before.

BigBull17
03-01-2012, 10:10 AM
no way you let Brown hit the open market next year...you have to lock him up if possible. It took way too long to find a credible LT to just let one walk.

Yep. LT is one of the most important positions in the NFL, and when you have a guy who could be in the argument for best in the leauge, you don't let it get close. Then he has you by the balls.

Vinny
03-01-2012, 10:29 AM
Yep. LT is one of the most important positions in the NFL, and when you have a guy who could be in the argument for best in the leauge, you don't let it get close. Then he has you by the balls.

yeah, if you want one of the best LT's in the league, you gotta pay. I donno how many Victor Rileys, or Ephraim Salaams you have to go through before any bad karma of letting a Pro Bowl caliber guy walk wears off....but I've had enough of them in any case. thankyouverymuch. :pirate:

IDEXAN
03-01-2012, 10:41 AM
A blast from the past - thank you Alex Gibbs, without you there's surely no Duane Brown on the Texans' roster.

BigBull17
03-01-2012, 11:12 AM
yeah, if you want one of the best LT's in the league, you gotta pay. I donno how many Victor Rileys, or Ephraim Salaams you have to go through before any bad karma of letting a Pro Bowl caliber guy walk wears off....but I've had enough of them in any case. thankyouverymuch. :pirate:

Thanks for the Victor Riley flashback. Damn he was awful.

b0ng
03-01-2012, 12:31 PM
You would seriously pick Mario over Barwin?

I would too and it's not even a question.

Vinny
03-01-2012, 12:40 PM
You would seriously pick Mario over Barwin?

I would too and it's not even a question.
Small sample for Barwin but last year was as good or better than most of Mario's years and just a smidgen off of Mario's best seasons if you just look at raw numbers. Mario looks better in shorts though. :clown:

Mario Williams - 44 solo tackles was his career high and his best sack year was 14. Mario has been a double digit sack guy for only 2 of his 6 years starting.

Connor Barwin - 38 solo tackles and 11.5 sacks in his only starting season.

HJam72
03-01-2012, 12:45 PM
Duane Brown is NOT replaceable. Lock 'im up. 'nough said.

Naiirb
03-01-2012, 12:58 PM
Small sample for Barwin but last year was as good or better than most of Mario's years and just a smidgen off of Mario's best seasons if you just look at raw numbers. Mario looks better in shorts though. :clown:

Mario Williams - 44 solo tackles was his career high and his best sack year was 14. Mario has been a double digit sack guy for only 2 of his 6 years starting.

Connor Barwin - 38 solo tackles and 11.5 sacks in his only starting season.

Not a really fair comparison imo. Barwin plays in a scheme that's designed to rack up stats for a OLB whereas Mario in the 4-3 was pretty much thrown out there and asked go get it. Put Barwin in Mario's position and i don't think he comes close to his production the past 5 seasons.

Vinny
03-01-2012, 01:01 PM
Not a really fair comparison imo. Barwin plays in a scheme that's designed to rack up stats for a OLB whereas Mario in the 4-3 was pretty much thrown out there and asked go get it. Put Barwin in Mario's position and i don't think he comes close to his production the past 5 seasons.

It's fair and I don't agree with your assertion. Edge rushers are edge rushers regardless of an odd or even front. All defenses regardless of odd or even, play a base 7 man front and have 4 in the secondary. I could list dozens of 4-3 ends with double digit sacks every year. I'd bet the top sack masters in the league most years are mostly 4-3 ends (ie. Freeny, Strahan, Peppers...etc.)

for the record - I'd like to keep Mario

noxiousdog
03-01-2012, 01:09 PM
The yearly sack leader is almost always an olb. Ill look it up in a few.

OLB/DE distribution in top 10 sack leaders
2011 - 4 DE, 6 OLB - Jared Allen was leader.
2010 - 8 DE, 6 OLB - 4 tied at 10 - Top 4 leaders were OLB
2009 - 6 DE, 4 OLB - Dumerville leader (OLB)
2008 - 6 DE, 4 OLB - Top 2 were OLB
2007 - 6 DE, 4 OLB - Top 2 were DE
2006 - 7 DE, 3 OLB - Merriman top.
2005 - all de.

More DE's than expected, but consider less than half use a 3-4.

That being said, I think that lends more credence to the Barwin is really good theory.

Vinny
03-02-2012, 01:23 PM
The yearly sack leader is almost always an olb. Ill look it up in a few.

OLB/DE distribution in top 10 sack leaders
2011 - 4 DE, 6 OLB - Jared Allen was leader.
2010 - 8 DE, 6 OLB - 4 tied at 10 - Top 4 leaders were OLB
2009 - 6 DE, 4 OLB - Dumerville leader (OLB)
2008 - 6 DE, 4 OLB - Top 2 were OLB
2007 - 6 DE, 4 OLB - Top 2 were DE
2006 - 7 DE, 3 OLB - Merriman top.
2005 - all de.

More DE's than expected, but consider less than half use a 3-4.

That being said, I think that lends more credence to the Barwin is really good theory.pretty equal distribution sums up my point that it really doesn't matter if you use an odd or even front. The primary edge rusher is going to get his regardless.

kiwitexansfan
03-03-2012, 01:00 AM
The more I think about it, the more I see Foster being the odd man out.

I just don't see value at the RB spot, compared to LT, C and OLB.

welsh texan
03-03-2012, 01:08 AM
The more I think about it, the more I see Foster being the odd man out.

I just don't see value at the RB spot, compared to LT, C and OLB.

You know, I think there is more than an outside chance of that being the case. Just look at Kubiak's history with RB's, when has he ever kept one around for more than 3 or 4 years?

I'm talking about his Denver days too, it was a constant train of low draftees and UDFA's turning in one or two good seasons before moving on to the next in line.

I think Foster is something very special in that he's absolutely perfect for the system AND elite in his own right too, but if it comes to tieing themselves down to 8 mill a year for 6 years on a RB when they have Ben Tate sat there and feel confident of getting what they need on day 3 of the draft I can see Kubes reverting to type.

That said, as big a MW fan as I am, I'd see him walk before I'd see Foster walk.

ObsiWan
03-03-2012, 02:58 AM
You know, I think there is more than an outside chance of that being the case. Just look at Kubiak's history with RB's, when has he ever kept one around for more than 3 or 4 years?

I'm talking about his Denver days too, it was a constant train of low draftees and UDFA's turning in one or two good seasons before moving on to the next in line.

I think Foster is something very special in that he's absolutely perfect for the system AND elite in his own right too, but if it comes to tieing themselves down to 8 mill a year for 6 years on a RB when they have Ben Tate sat there and feel confident of getting what they need on day 3 of the draft I can see Kubes reverting to type.

That said, as big a MW fan as I am, I'd see him walk before I'd see Foster walk.

First, when have we had a RB, prior to Foster, that was worth keeping around for more than 3 or 4 yrs? I can't think of one. Slaton might have been the guy had he not had the neck issue that resulted in his fumblitis. Green had injury issues and not a lot left in the tank. The rest were just whodats.

In Denver, it was Shanny Sr. making the moves and not Kubiak. I do find it interesting that Shanny Sr. hasn't really had a successful season since Kubes left his side.