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View Full Version : Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.


Ryan
02-24-2012, 05:17 PM
“I think our expectations are for him once we get to OTAs that he will do everything, probably be excluded out of teamwork just to keep him out of harm’s way from that standpoint, but all indications are that he will be full-speed sometime in May and will be ready to go in camp.”



http://blog.houstontexans.com/2012/02/24/kubiak-says-schaub-should-be-full-speed-in-may/

Texn4life
02-24-2012, 05:33 PM
If I have learned anything about Kubiak since he's become our HC, its not to listen to ANYTHING he says regarding injury expectations. If he's saying he expects him full speed in May then that probably means he expects him to start jogging in August.

I pray that he's actually being upfront this one time though and Schaub really is full speed by that time. Hell, I'd even settle for July. Its not like he needs the OTA work. Let Yates take 1st team work all off-season and just focus on getting Matt ready for Training Camp.

Big Lou
02-24-2012, 06:50 PM
Great news, so he'll be back to his blistering 5.3 40 yard dash!?!?!?!?!?

Just kidding Schaubby, you'd still beat me in a foot race, but just barely!

thunderkyss
02-24-2012, 07:12 PM
If I have learned anything about Kubiak since he's become our HC, its not to listen to ANYTHING he says regarding injury expectations. If he's saying he expects him full speed in May then that probably means he expects him to start jogging in August.

I pray that he's actually being upfront this one time though and Schaub really is full speed by that time. Hell, I'd even settle for July. Its not like he needs the OTA work. Let Yates take 1st team work all off-season and just focus on getting Matt ready for Training Camp.

Watch Matt.... Matt Leinart. If we release Leinart to create cap space, then Kubiak believes (in his heart-of-hearts) that Schaub will be ready to go in May.

If Matt Leinart sticks around, then Kubiak doesn't know any better than we do.

Texan_Bill
02-24-2012, 07:30 PM
I hope so, given the number of athletes that never really did recover from a Linsfranc injury. Also, if this is true, it would be one of the fastest re-habs in the injury's history...

drs23
02-24-2012, 07:52 PM
I hope so, given the number of athletes that never really did recover from a Linsfranc injury. Also, if this is true, it would be one of the fastest re-habs in the injury's history...

Yeah, TB, no BS.

Don't see it happening. Hope I'm wrong along with Doctor Jean and Marcus/David.

Medical marvel/miracle from what I'm understanding.

A round of golf anyone?

Texn4life
02-24-2012, 08:04 PM
Watch Matt.... Matt Leinart. If we release Leinart to create cap space, then Kubiak believes (in his heart-of-hearts) that Schaub will be ready to go in May.

If Matt Leinart sticks around, then Kubiak doesn't know any better than we do.

Good point....... You're 100 percent right about that.

NitroGSXR
02-24-2012, 08:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9xRhwmHBBE

JimBaker488
02-24-2012, 08:59 PM
I hope so, given the number of athletes that never really did recover from a Linsfranc injury. Also, if this is true, it would be one of the fastest re-habs in the injury's history...
Didn't Briesel have a speedy and successful recovery ?

thunderkyss
02-24-2012, 09:03 PM
Didn't Briesel have a speedy and successful recovery ?

Different kind of injury. There has been examples of people recovering from a broken fibula in 4 weeks. Most recently Danieal Manning.

Schaub's injury, not so much. Most guys don't make it to 100% from a serious Lisfranc

beerlover
02-24-2012, 09:13 PM
Ringing endorsement that Matt Schaub is his guy.

ps: if Texans release Matt Leinart that also means TJ Yates is #2

edo783
02-24-2012, 09:19 PM
IMO, very good news. However, I would feel a LOT better if the team had a better track record with being more forthcoming on the true nature of the injuries and the recoveries from them.

Texn4life
02-24-2012, 09:37 PM
IMO, very good news. However, I would feel a LOT better if the team had a better track record with being more forthcoming on the true nature of the injuries and the recoveries from them.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Its kind of hard to get excited with news from this crew. On one hand I appreciate them not being the doom and gloom type, but knowing that they base most of the info they release on "hopes" and not reality doesn't lead me to feel overtly excited right now.

b0ng
02-24-2012, 09:42 PM
I hope so, given the number of athletes that never really did recover from a Linsfranc injury. Also, if this is true, it would be one of the fastest re-habs in the injury's history...

Did you know that Dwight Freeney had a lisfranc injury in 2007? True story. Heard he still plays too.

JimBaker488
02-24-2012, 09:44 PM
Different kind of injury. There has been examples of people recovering from a broken fibula in 4 weeks. Most recently Danieal Manning.

Schaub's injury, not so much. Most guys don't make it to 100% from a serious Lisfranc
That was last years injury. Briesel also went IR year before with the same kind of injury Schaub suffered in 2011.

thunderkyss
02-24-2012, 09:47 PM
Ringing endorsement that Matt Schaub is his guy.

ps: if Texans release Matt Leinart that also means TJ Yates is #2

I think Yates is #2 either way. I wouldn't start him unless I thought he was ready, & from what I saw last year we haven't got there yet.

If the realistic expectation is that Schaub is going to start week 1, then we have no use for Leinart. If there is any question, Leinart stays just in case.

GP
02-24-2012, 10:35 PM
Did you know that Dwight Freeney had a lisfranc injury in 2007? True story. Heard he still plays too.

What grade was it?

Brady Quinn had it, too, in December 2009, but it was (IIRC) not his plant foot and not as severe of an injury as Schaub's.

Is it apples to apples comparison?

GP
02-24-2012, 10:49 PM
I think Yates is #2 either way. I wouldn't start him unless I thought he was ready, & from what I saw last year we haven't got there yet.

If the realistic expectation is that Schaub is going to start week 1, then we have no use for Leinart. If there is any question, Leinart stays just in case.

Leinart broke the same clavicle vs. Jags that he had broken previously when he was with the Cards. He could be a camp release based on the probability of injury reoccurrence AND lackluster performance versus Jags.

Truth be known, as much as I dislike Michael Lombardi, he was likely right when he said no Texans fans needed to be dismayed by Leinart being I.R.'d and Yates taking over in Jags game.

I expect Leinart will be in camp, but so will 3 or 4 other QBs, and Leinart will eventually get cut deep enough into camp or preseason to avoid Leinart and his agent and lawyers from claiming he was cut due to injury.

Frankly, I would rather watch old geezers Delhomme (whom might not be interested) and Garcia get a nod ahead of Leinart. There's something with Leinart that just feels "off."

Vinny
02-24-2012, 10:51 PM
this thread title may send this new strange anti-Schaub bunch into a panic. Could we find a better way to help lift their spirits than this?

TejasTom
02-24-2012, 10:58 PM
What grade was it?


According to this article (http://hisreturnisquestionable.blogspot.com/2011/12/matt-schaub-lisfranc-fracture.html) it was - Grade III sprain: Complete disruption of ligament; could include a fracture dislocation.

GP
02-25-2012, 12:46 AM
According to this article (http://hisreturnisquestionable.blogspot.com/2011/12/matt-schaub-lisfranc-fracture.html) it was - Grade III sprain: Complete disruption of ligament; could include a fracture dislocation.

Grade III.

It's late February and Schaub invites Kubiak to play golf....which is roughly about 10 weeks after he had surgery on it (back in December, I think). He had to be off it completely for a minimum of 6 weeks after surgery.

So roughly four weeks after his potential 6-weeks non-weight- bearing period was over, he's ready to hoof it around a golf course and put strain on it by hitting drives and irons???

Me thinks Schaub was being funny, like "Hey coach, let's go shoot a round of golf" and Kubiak tells the media in a way that we don't know if he was serious, joking, or what. I think this is a bunch of fun being poked at a hyped-up social media crowd.

They're probably ROFL at us as they watch us pick apart the statement in this thread. LOL.

ckhouston
02-25-2012, 07:29 AM
By saying that Schaub will be ready to go in May, the Texans may be setting up a more open trade discussion for his services. Players cannot be traded if they are injured, so if it looks like he will be cleared before the draft other teams can start to make offers. I like it.

GP
02-25-2012, 09:16 AM
By saying that Schaub will be ready to go in May, the Texans may be setting up a more open trade discussion for his services. Players cannot be traded if they are injured, so if it looks like he will be cleared before the draft other teams can start to make offers. I like it.

I don't think anybody in the Texans organization would seek to trade him.

And a smart team would wait to see how well Schaub played in 2012, to see if he's really suitable to play again, before attempting to acquire him. By trading with the Texans sometime between now and reg season, a new team acquiring Schaub assumes the risk 100%. Why not let the Texans assume that risk?

Therefore, the earliest a team would attempt a trade for him would be right at the trade deadline. But would he be back by then, what would be his body of work in the few games he might've played in up to that point?

No, I think he'll be here all year. He'll be a free agent in 2013, and teams won't have to possibly waste a draft pick or one of their own players to get Schaub. IF they even felt he was worth targeting to begin with.

This is why I say Schaub has almost insurmountable odds to overcome. He's in No Man's Land with the grade III LisFranc and in his final year of contract.

thunderkyss
02-25-2012, 10:31 AM
Leinart broke the same clavicle vs. Jags that he had broken previously when he was with the Cards. He could be a camp release based on the probability of injury reoccurrence AND lackluster performance versus Jags.


Or he could go on to 215 consecutive starts (or however many games Brees has started).

& Lackluster... He looked as proficient in this system as Schaub did in Cleveland & Tennessee; something I believe HOUSTON TEXANS HEAD COACH GARY KUBIAK (not of the same esteem as Lombardi whom you quoted) values quite a bit.

Had Leinart finished that game, we likely would have scored in the high 30s. Had Leinart finished the season, our offense most likely would have stayed in the top 5. Had Leinart finished the game, we would have averaged more than 16 ppg in those final games.

When we say Tj Yates isn't ready to start, what do we mean? He can't read a defense, he can't go through his progressions, he's throwing the ball down-field despite triple coverage..... When Schaub does it, we call it "efficient' & "ball security" & "a chance to win any game." When Leinart does it, we call it "lackluster"

Lombardi.... pfft.

TimeKiller
02-25-2012, 10:40 AM
I can't understand how people have come to a conclusion after 1 half of a game where frankly, Leinart played decently. Like, either way, good or bad conclusions. He didn't set any fires or put any fires out. It was 1 half. 1.

I think we all know that the Texan's will shine up any injury and make it look like it wasn't that bad. I think we all know Schaub still has a long way to go.

Thorn
02-25-2012, 11:22 AM
I'd love to have Schaub back for training camp, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'm still of the opinion he will miss a huge part of the pre-season and possibly even the start of the regular season. I'd love to be proven wrong on that.

GP
02-25-2012, 12:12 PM
Leinart is awful. Period.

I won't exhaust myself trying to change people's minds.

GP
02-25-2012, 12:14 PM
I'd love to have Schaub back for training camp, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'm still of the opinion he will miss a huge part of the pre-season and possibly even the start of the regular season. I'd love to be proven wrong on that.

But you're a Schaub Hater! You MUST not say these things, Thorn.

I mean, we have Kubiak saying Schaub is wanting to play a round of golf already! He's actually running wind sprints right now, with JJ Watt riding piggy back. And ankle weights. In the desert.

Ryan
02-25-2012, 01:05 PM
Or he could go on to 215 consecutive starts (or however many games Brees has started).

& Lackluster... He looked as proficient in this system as Schaub did in Cleveland & Tennessee; something I believe HOUSTON TEXANS HEAD COACH GARY KUBIAK (not of the same esteem as Lombardi whom you quoted) values quite a bit.

Had Leinart finished that game, we likely would have scored in the high 30s. Had Leinart finished the season, our offense most likely would have stayed in the top 5. Had Leinart finished the game, we would have averaged more than 16 ppg in those final games.

When we say Tj Yates isn't ready to start, what do we mean? He can't read a defense, he can't go through his progressions, he's throwing the ball down-field despite triple coverage..... When Schaub does it, we call it "efficient' & "ball security" & "a chance to win any game." When Leinart does it, we call it "lackluster"

Lombardi.... pfft.


http://www.ducati.org/forums/attachments/848/55624d1329385390-your-848-picture-not-sure-if-serious.jpg

Bulls on Parade
02-25-2012, 01:27 PM
I'd love to have Schaub back for training camp, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'm still of the opinion he will miss a huge part of the pre-season and possibly even the start of the regular season. I'd love to be proven wrong on that.
Why would Schaub miss any regular-season games? He's already been out a long time and is progressing ahead of schedule after the surgery and rehab. I can't imagine him not being ready. People keep mentioning other players with the same injury and always sound so pessimistic. Schaub is fine and is ready to lead this team to the Super Bowl.

thunderkyss
02-25-2012, 03:12 PM
http://www.ducati.org/forums/attachments/848/55624d1329385390-your-848-picture-not-sure-if-serious.jpg

Yes, I'm serious.

GP
02-25-2012, 03:23 PM
Why would Schaub miss any regular-season games? He's already been out a long time and is progressing ahead of schedule after the surgery and rehab. I can't imagine him not being ready. People keep mentioning other players with the same injury and always sound so pessimistic. Schaub is fine and is ready to lead this team to the Super Bowl.

Is this National Not Sure If Serious Day?

Ryan, help me out please.

Hardcore Texan
02-25-2012, 03:50 PM
Grade III.

It's late February and Schaub invites Kubiak to play golf....which is roughly about 10 weeks after he had surgery on it (back in December, I think). He had to be off it completely for a minimum of 6 weeks after surgery.

So roughly four weeks after his potential 6-weeks non-weight- bearing period was over, he's ready to hoof it around a golf course and put strain on it by hitting drives and irons???
Me thinks Schaub was being funny, like "Hey coach, let's go shoot a round of golf" and Kubiak tells the media in a way that we don't know if he was serious, joking, or what. I think this is a bunch of fun being poked at a hyped-up social media crowd.

They're probably ROFL at us as they watch us pick apart the statement in this thread. LOL.


They must have left out a part about this golf being on the playstation.

Nice try Kubes, nice try. :tiphat:

badboy
02-25-2012, 04:20 PM
I don't think anybody in the Texans organization would seek to trade him.

And a smart team would wait to see how well Schaub played in 2012, to see if he's really suitable to play again, before attempting to acquire him. By trading with the Texans sometime between now and reg season, a new team acquiring Schaub assumes the risk 100%. Why not let the Texans assume that risk?
Therefore, the earliest a team would attempt a trade for him would be right at the trade deadline. But would he be back by then, what would be his body of work in the few games he might've played in up to that point?

No, I think he'll be here all year. He'll be a free agent in 2013, and teams won't have to possibly waste a draft pick or one of their own players to get Schaub. IF they even felt he was worth targeting to begin with.

This is why I say Schaub has almost insurmountable odds to overcome. He's in No Man's Land with the grade III LisFranc and in his final year of contract.Let's take Washingon who obviously needs a QB desperately. Colts draft Luck & RG3 goes to Cleveland in a trade up. Manning goes to Seattle. Is not Schaub the next best choice even if his healthy return not 100% guaranteed? Would skins management want fans to know they have a passing QB on the bench even if it is mid-season before he starts? Teams needing a QB now might not want to wait another season if one is available. We see stupid choices made on QBs every year.

The problem for me is not trading Schaub but who do we go after? Only RG3 #2 makes sense player wise & I doubt we can compete with Cleveland.

DocBar
02-25-2012, 06:50 PM
Watch Matt.... Matt Leinart. If we release Leinart to create cap space, then Kubiak believes (in his heart-of-hearts) that Schaub will be ready to go in May.

If Matt Leinart sticks around, then Kubiak doesn't know any better than we do.I'd watch the drat. I have no doubt that Kubes beoieves more in Yates than he ever did in Leinart. Leinart kinda sunk himself in the Jags game with a horrible yards per anything.

ObsiWan
02-25-2012, 07:36 PM
According to this quote from Kubiak (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Rick-Smith-Gary-Kubiak-at-Combine/93224fca-a8a8-4b57-975e-c6ad081ec479), we're standing pat at QB.


(on if T.J. Yates or Matt Leinarthttp://www.houstontexans.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster/matt-leinart/d21e5b4a-9371-4426-887d-90197b947f38/) is the Texans’ No. 2 quarterback going into next season) “If I had to go camp tomorrow, I got all three of those guys back in line. I know who my No. 1 is . What I would do is let T.J. (Yates) and Matt (Leinart) go back and battle for the backup
spot behind Schaubby (Matt Schaub). I think those guys both did a good job with their opportunity. It's hard to fault Leinart with what happened to him. He played a half of football and was playing very well. They're both still young players making their way back up to the top. And T.J. of course still a young player. I think we'd just line them both up side by side and they'd go in there to battle to be the back up to Matt (Schaub).”


Either this is the most proficient coach speak this side of Belicheck or we ain't trading anybody nor drafting any project QBs ...at least going into 2012 we're not.

GP
02-25-2012, 10:27 PM
Let's take Washingon who obviously needs a QB desperately. Colts draft Luck & RG3 goes to Cleveland in a trade up. Manning goes to Seattle. Is not Schaub the next best choice even if his healthy return not 100% guaranteed? Would skins management want fans to know they have a passing QB on the bench even if it is mid-season before he starts? Teams needing a QB now might not want to wait another season if one is available. We see stupid choices made on QBs every year.

The problem for me is not trading Schaub but who do we go after? Only RG3 #2 makes sense player wise & I doubt we can compete with Cleveland.

ONLY some owner and GM who are extremely and wildly desperate for a better QB would consider trading for Schaub before he's had a chance to prove he's "all the way back" from the injury. It'd have to be a perfect storm of desperation and motivation on the part of an owner and GM.

Boy how times have changed if we'd have Shanahan taking on Texans' players rather than the days of the Texans employing ex-Broncos.

I don't think Peyton Manning has a happy ending this year unless he can fully prove he's all the way back, as well.

Also, it's still possible RG3 is selected by the Colts if Irsay gets a wild hair to change course based on multiple factors that can play out.

There's a lot of change that can occur. I suppose a team might see Schaub as a much better QB than what they have or could acquire elsewhere, but the injury is scary. I think it's too risky.

GP
02-25-2012, 10:33 PM
According to this quote from Kubiak (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Rick-Smith-Gary-Kubiak-at-Combine/93224fca-a8a8-4b57-975e-c6ad081ec479), we're standing pat at QB.



Either this is the most proficient coach speak this side of Belicheck or we ain't trading anybody nor drafting any project QBs ...at least going into 2012 we're not.

I wouldn't want three QBs--Schaub, Leinart, Yates--hearing me, the HC, talk about how TJ is the starter and Leinart is QB2 and Schaub becomes the starter and then Yates is QB2 and Leinart is QB3, on and on and on....

At this stage, I can't sit here and think Kubiak was thrilled with Leinart's 1.75 quarters of football vs. Jags in 2011. Kubiak is being wise. Smart man.

Schaub is being honored and spoken of as the veteran starter, Leinart can't be judged because he got hurt early vs. Jags, and Yates is young. Notice how Kubiak spread the love around and never indicted anybody either by direct criticism or omission from the conversation.

He keeps Schaub motivated, Leinart encouraged, and Yates challenged as a young guy like Yates should be thinking...rather than thinking the starting job is handed to him on a platter.

Smart man.

ObsiWan
02-25-2012, 11:16 PM
I wouldn't want three QBs--Schaub, Leinart, Yates--hearing me, the HC, talk about how TJ is the starter and Leinart is QB2 and Schaub becomes the starter and then Yates is QB2 and Leinart is QB3, on and on and on....

At this stage, I can't sit here and think Kubiak was thrilled with Leinart's 1.75 quarters of football vs. Jags in 2011. Kubiak is being wise. Smart man.

Schaub is being honored and spoken of as the veteran starter, Leinart can't be judged because he got hurt early vs. Jags, and Yates is young. Notice how Kubiak spread the love around and never indicted anybody either by direct criticism or omission from the conversation.

He keeps Schaub motivated, Leinart encouraged, and Yates challenged as a young guy like Yates should be thinking...rather than thinking the starting job is handed to him on a platter.

Smart man.

Agreed.


now if he could just master clock mgmt & learn when to toss that challenge flag...

steelbtexan
02-25-2012, 11:23 PM
I believe nothing that Gary or the Texans medical staff says when it comes to severity of injuries.

History has made me feel this way.

GP
02-26-2012, 12:42 AM
now if he could just master clock mgmt & learn when to toss that challenge flag...

Everybody was so busy ooh'ing and ahh'ing over JJ Watt's awesome interception in the Bengals playoff game that I think they missed how much Kubiak out-coached Marvin Lewis.

I don't think I've ever seen Kubiak so smart with the red flag, time outs, etc. than in that game. It was a thing of beauty. Marvin burned two timeouts on failed challenges. The Bengals were going to try something sneaky on a 4th down and Kubiak calls timeout because he sees it unfolding.

It was hands down the best ass whoopin' Kubiak has delivered to an opposing HC. Well, maybe the sweep of Del Rio this year is a fitting candidate too. That was like cutting off a snake's head.

GP
02-26-2012, 12:44 AM
I believe nothing that Gary or the Texans medical staff says when it comes to severity of injuries.

History has made me feel this way.

They did well with the Briesel and Manning leg injuries, but nothing else they do has me interested in believing their reports and predictions.

All this "Schaub wants to play golf" is pre-draft babble, IMO. It's designed to put a thought into the heads of opposing GMs on multiple levels. Which is good.

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 01:34 AM
Cnd said that if Manning played with the deep bone bruise he could fracture the bone. If it wasn't already fractured. He said it usually takes 10-14 days to see if there is a fracture that had occurred after the original injury. Once again CND was spot on.

In the Manning case regardless of whether Manning had suffered a fracture or not he shouldn't have been playing with a bad bone bruise. So I give the Texans med staff no kudos on handling that injury properly.

rush2112mn
02-26-2012, 09:55 AM
Schaub did say he was ahead of schedule a few weeks after the surgery. I just want him healthy for training camp myself.....I know he said he was looking foward to being out there for training camp and was chomping at the bit waiting for it. I think Schaub comes back and has a big year this year......

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 10:01 AM
Schaub did say he was ahead of schedule a few weeks after the surgery. I just want him healthy for training camp myself.....I know he said he was looking foward to being out there for training camp and was chomping at the bit waiting for it. I think Schaub comes back and has a big year this year......

Hope you're right.

If healthy he should have a big yr.

GP
02-26-2012, 10:22 AM
Cnd said that if Manning played with the deep bone bruise he could fracture the bone. If it wasn't already fractured. He said it usually takes 10-14 days to see if there is a fracture that had occurred after the original injury. Once again CND was spot on.

In the Manning case regardless of whether Manning had suffered a fracture or not he shouldn't have been playing with a bad bone bruise. So I give the Texans med staff no kudos on handling that injury properly.

To clarify what I said:

I didn't mean they handled the bone bruise prior to the fracture properly.

I just meant that when he was out for the three weeks, the report or prediction from the Texans was that he'd be out that amount of time. Usually, they say a player will be back on a certain date and it's not until much later after that date we see them back on the field.

ObsiWan
02-26-2012, 12:21 PM
To clarify what I said:

I didn't mean they handled the bone bruise prior to the fracture properly.

I just meant that when he was out for the three weeks, the report or prediction from the Texans was that he'd be out that amount of time. Usually, they say a player will be back on a certain date and it's not until much later after that date we see them back on the field.

I think that's SteelB's point. They miss more often than they hit on these "he should be out X number of weeks" predictions/declarations.

GP
02-28-2012, 01:35 AM
I think that's SteelB's point. They miss more often than they hit on these "he should be out X number of weeks" predictions/declarations.

Yes and no.

Yes, they miss more than they hit. No, he was thinking about how they should have held him out so that the bruise didn't matriculate into a fracture.

My point was that on THESE TWO INSTANCES (Manning and Briesel) they set a return date that actually happened when they said it would. I, for one, was not expecting them to back that soon...I figured it was a bullschit return date for Manning. But when Manning WAS back in about 3 weeks, I rested easier knowing Briesel would be back in the same about of time too.

Other than that, you just cannot trust the Texans to be either (a) correct in their timetable for return, or (b) freely giving that information out due to playing head games with opponents, or (c) both A and B at the same time! LOL.

welsh texan
02-28-2012, 01:50 AM
All I'm saying is...I've still got a D. Davis #37 in Battle Red somewhere at the back of my wardrobe. And he was going to be good to go by training camp too.

ckhouston
02-28-2012, 02:51 AM
All I'm saying is...I've still got a D. Davis #37 in Battle Red somewhere at the back of my wardrobe.

I have a white Carr field jersey (Reebok with the cuffs on the sleeves ... actual game jersey) unopened still in the plastic. My jersey is sadder than your jersey. :bender:

MistaRed
02-28-2012, 08:49 AM
Texans @MSchaub8 on 610am. Walking, no boot, hardware out of foot in April, on target. Will do OTAs-tho avoid drills he could get stepped on

badboy
02-28-2012, 09:12 AM
Texans @MSchaub8 on 610am. Walking, no boot, hardware out of foot in April, on target. Will do OTAs-tho avoid drills he could get stepped onThanks. I caught the very end but seemed positive and that is all we have to go on.

Marcus
02-28-2012, 02:49 PM
Thanks. I caught the very end but seemed positive and that is all we have to go on.

Yup. That's all we have to go on.

As I told someone in a PM last week, I'm paying no attention to what they say, but will pay a lot of attention to what they do.

They draft a QB in the early rounds, we'll know that things aren't all that "rosy".

steelbtexan
02-28-2012, 06:42 PM
Yup. That's all we have to go on.

As I told someone in a PM last week, I'm paying no attention to what they say, but will pay a lot of attention to what they do.

They draft a QB in the early rounds, we'll know that things aren't all that "rosy".

How would you feel if the Texans were the mystery team in the RG3 sweepstakes.

I would be estatic and I'm a Schaub guy.

RG3 is going to be really special.

Texan_Bill
02-28-2012, 07:00 PM
All I'm saying is...I've still got a D. Davis #37 in Battle Red somewhere at the back of my wardrobe. And he was going to be good to go by training camp too.

To be fair, DD was drafted to be a third down back. He went on to give the Texans way more than they ever expected, BUT (and I like big butts and I can not lie.. Dread-Head won't deny), had a degenerative knee from the jump, IIRC. He was on borrowed time as it was.

thunderkyss
02-28-2012, 10:29 PM
How would you feel if the Texans were the mystery team in the RG3 sweepstakes.

I would be estatic and I'm a Schaub guy.

RG3 is going to be really special.

We've got three QBs on our roster. Schaub, Leinart, & Tj..... I doubt we look for a QB, unless they don't expect him to play at all in 2012

To be fair, DD was drafted to be a third down back. He went on to give the Texans way more than they ever expected, BUT (and I like big butts and I can not lie.. Dread-Head won't deny), had a degenerative knee from the jump, IIRC. He was on borrowed time as it was.

I believe his point was that the Texans said he would be ready by training camp & the man didn't touch the ball in TC much less the season.

steelbtexan
02-28-2012, 10:36 PM
After losing two 5ths of the OL makes this very doubtful.

I think RG3 is a once in a generation type player.

ObsiWan
02-28-2012, 10:46 PM
After losing two 5ths of the OL makes this very doubtful.

I think RG3 is a once in a generation type player.

Twice in a generation.

I'm counting Cam Newton as his equal.

Marcus
03-01-2012, 11:41 AM
I think RG3 is a once in a generation type player.

They said the same thing about Vince Young.

RG3 is expected to go as high as #2. We're at #26. You wouldn't like what we'd have to give up to get him. More than likely this year's entire draft plus part of next year's, plus a good player. Nope, you wouldn't like the terms.

ckhouston
03-01-2012, 07:10 PM
They said the same thing about Vince Young. :toropalm:

RG3 is expected to go as high as #2. We're at #26. You wouldn't like what we'd have to give up to get him. More than likely this year's entire draft plus part of next year's, plus a good player. Nope, you wouldn't like the terms.

Dont need him . Keep the O-line in-tact, keep Mario if financially possible, improve the secondary and O-line depth, grab a WR prospect, and maybe a QB prospect or sign a cheap FA. Matt will start, Yates will be starting before the year ends (I predicted Yates in by week 10 last year on the Texans MB ... missed it by a week), unless Peyton just calls Gary and says "I'll play for the minimum on a three year deal with a 20m bonus only if we win the SB ... get ready for three rings". :gamer: C'mon!, it could happen. :voodoo: Seriously it isnt time to mortgage the farm for RGIII. We are a run first offense, and it worked well last year. Lock up Arian and lets go to work.

PapaL
03-01-2012, 07:47 PM
Soooo he'll be slow in May? Is that motorized scooter slow or racing foot speed slow? Hahaha

MistaRed
03-02-2012, 12:38 AM
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/03/texans-qb-schaub-expects-to-return-from-injury-in-better-condition/

Schaub rehab article in today's Chronicle.

GP
03-02-2012, 09:14 AM
Either there's some real nice P.R. effort being coordinated here by the Texans and Schaub, or he's going to be a miracle.

Some say I'm hatin' and that's not what I'm doing. I'm trying to understand how an NFL QB is going to come back from that severe of a Lisfranc injury...this quickly.

We all know Schaub > Yates. I just don't know that Lisfranc Schaub is > Yates.

Did anybody read the part where it says only a tiny screw will be the remaining item left in his foot to hold the ligament to the bone??? That must be a damn awesome screw. I hope it's coarse threaded.

GP
03-02-2012, 09:18 AM
If he's doing all-out team practices in camp, who wants to bet that Kubiak doesn't even allow the d line on the practice field, and LBs cannot rush...not even at half speed?

They're going to allow ZERO chance that somebody rolls onto his foot.

Marcus
03-02-2012, 09:45 AM
Did anybody read the part where it says only a tiny screw will be the remaining item left in his foot to hold the ligament to the bone??? That must be a damn awesome screw. I hope it's coarse threaded.

That "tiny" screw is the longest one. (about an inch and a half long) The fact that it's being left in is indicative of the severity of the injury. (comminuted or shattered bone) New bone has calcified around the screw. The others (how many?) can be "unscrewed". The one being left in would require the bone to be re-fractured. It will eventually break from stress.

I truly wish I didn't know so much about this subject. Schaub and the Texans are not doing themselves any favors with these PR-based premature statements. It's going to come back to haunt them.

The part that I really laughed at, was that bit about the hardware in his foot setting off the alarms at the airport. I've still got 2 plates and 12 screws still in my foot, and I have NEVER set those things off.

Rey
03-02-2012, 10:12 AM
That "tiny" screw is the longest one. (about an inch and a half long) The fact that it's being left in is indicative of the severity of the injury. (comminuted or shattered bone) New bone has calcified around the screw. The others (how many?) can be "unscrewed". The one being left in would require the bone to be re-fractured. It will eventually break from stress.

I truly wish I didn't know so much about this subject. Schaub and the Texans are not doing themselves any favors with these PR-based premature statements. It's going to come back to haunt them.

The part that I really laughed at, was that bit about the hardware in his foot setting off the alarms at the airport. I've still got 2 plates and 12 screws still in my foot, and I have NEVER set those things off.

That's a pretty definitive statement...

Are you sure about all of this? When do you see Schaub being able to start?

Marcus
03-02-2012, 10:24 AM
That's a pretty definitive statement...

Are you sure about all of this? When do you see Schaub being able to start?

Well, let's put it this way. If he's the starter at the beginning of the season, I'll have a lot of crow to eat, I know that.

majestrate
03-02-2012, 10:32 AM
I can't understand how people have come to a conclusion after 1 half of a game where frankly, Leinart played decently. Like, either way, good or bad conclusions. He didn't set any fires or put any fires out. It was 1 half. 1.

I think we all know that the Texan's will shine up any injury and make it look like it wasn't that bad. I think we all know Schaub still has a long way to go.
This.

Also, has anyone given thought to the idea that regardless of keeping positive, maybe the team doesn't want to publish any more information than they need to, to keep others from trying to figure out what they're going to do in the draft?

Yes, teams should draft according to their needs, but you can't count on that, especially now that they don't have to fork over the national GDP on the salary of a first rounder

GP
03-02-2012, 10:35 AM
That "tiny" screw is the longest one. (about an inch and a half long) The fact that it's being left in is indicative of the severity of the injury. (comminuted or shattered bone) New bone has calcified around the screw. The others (how many?) can be "unscrewed". The one being left in would require the bone to be re-fractured. It will eventually break from stress.

I truly wish I didn't know so much about this subject. Schaub and the Texans are not doing themselves any favors with these PR-based premature statements. It's going to come back to haunt them.

The part that I really laughed at, was that bit about the hardware in his foot setting off the alarms at the airport. I've still got 2 plates and 12 screws still in my foot, and I have NEVER set those things off.

This is what makes me nervous about these good reports we're being fed.

The previous laughable bit of P.R. was how Schaub contacted Kubiak, according to Kubiak's own words, and asked "Hey coach, want to catch a round of golf?"

Now, Gary never explained in more detail, such as "Ya' know, shucks, I think he's not ready to go for 18 holes of golf yet, but it speaks to his mindset. He's working hard to stay on track. blah blah blah" Instead, the comment was left to hover....no qualification of the remark, just let it hover there.

Now there's the McClain article, from a guy who at this stage of his affiliation with the Texans will no doubt lap up every bit of "inside info" he can get. They've got old John trained real good, IMO. He'd report whatever falls into his lap and never scrutinize it. Or else.

To clarify to everyone before you go all flaming angry on me: I'm a skeptic. Not a hater. Just a skeptic.

Double Barrel
03-02-2012, 10:36 AM
I tend to believe the longtime poster who has experienced this injury and subsequent surgery/rehab and our resident doctor who has been very accurate, over trusting the media/marketing savvy corporation trying protect and promote their brand.

The Texans history is one of CIA confidentiality and smoke screens about injuries - FROM THE VERY FIRST YEAR. Why would I be inclined to trust them now, when what they are trying to sell flies in the face of common knowledge from those who are educated about it from experience and profession?

I'm on the side of Marcus and CnD, and I'll be happy to eat some crow of Schaub is starting week 1 of the 2012 season. Don't forget, this is also the time of season ticket renewals and trade talks.

majestrate
03-02-2012, 10:42 AM
I tend to believe the longtime poster who has experienced this injury and subsequent surgery/rehab and our resident doctor who has been very accurate, over trusting the media/marketing savvy corporation trying protect and promote their brand.

The Texans history is one of CIA confidentiality and smoke screens about injuries - FROM THE VERY FIRST YEAR. Why would I be inclined to trust them now, when what they are trying to sell flies in the face of common knowledge from those who are educated about it from experience and profession?

I'm on the side of Marcus and CnD, and I'll be happy to eat some crow of Schaub is starting week 1 of the 2012 season. Don't forget, this is also the time of season ticket renewals and trade talks.

I think you were replying to my question. If not, disregard.

I was posting more of a, "keep in mind that the team may have more than just one or two reasons to provide misinformation/lies to the public" rather than "why do you believe other contributers over team PR".

I have never put value in what GK publicizes, though that comes from the fantasy football side of me rather than a distrust of the team. Then again, I don't usually put stock in what any corporation tries to spoon feed the public.

GP
03-02-2012, 10:48 AM
I tend to believe the longtime poster who has experienced this injury and subsequent surgery/rehab and our resident doctor who has been very accurate, over trusting the media/marketing savvy corporation trying protect and promote their brand.

The Texans history is one of CIA confidentiality and smoke screens about injuries - FROM THE VERY FIRST YEAR. Why would I be inclined to trust them now, when what they are trying to sell flies in the face of common knowledge from those who are educated about it from experience and profession?

I'm on the side of Marcus and CnD, and I'll be happy to eat some crow of Schaub is starting week 1 of the 2012 season. Don't forget, this is also the time of season ticket renewals and trade talks.

Yep.

I think it's in our nature to WANT to believe good news. Heck, I do!

Good news makes our fears subside. It calms us.

Without Marcus or CnD here, I would have known very little about all this stuff. None of us would, unless somebody had stepped up to the plate to really dig into the topic more. Without CnD's medical knowledge and experience and connections in this field, and without Marcus' very unfortunate personal Lisfranc experience, we would not be able to offset the "good news" reports being distributed at various timely intervals.

I keep saying it, and I still believe it to be true: If Schaub recovers AND maintains a steady level of QB play AND does this before mid reg season 2012 it will mean almost a miracle of some sorts. He will defy the odds if that happens. I want it to happen, for selfish reasons as a fan, but I don't think it does.

Two things happened when Kubiak became coach here: (A) We started hearing less from them, in terms of comparing it to the Capers/Casserly era and how they were unusually open with information, and (B) We had to buckle down and really become students of the game in a whole new way, particularly the understanding of what is going on and what's real and what's manufactured.

GP
03-02-2012, 10:51 AM
I think you were replying to my question. If not, disregard.

I was posting more of a, "keep in mind that the team may have more than just one or two reasons to provide misinformation/lies to the public" rather than "why do you believe other contributers over team PR".

I have never put value in what GK publicizes, though that comes from the fantasy football side of me rather than a distrust of the team. Then again, I don't usually put stock in what any corporation tries to spoon feed the public.

For sure. It's not smart to come out and say "Schaub is not going to be playing a real game as QB until about week 6." That's information we would never want opponents to learn at this stage. We want them to guess whether he returns week 1, or week 2, or week 3.

This will be the Andre Johnson "unless he has a setback he'll go this Sunday" saga all over again. It makes teams work on preparing for Yates AND Schaub, just in case. And if we should trot Schaub out in week 3, that week 3 team is gonna' be screwed if they played their cards wrongly in the week leading up the matchup if they thought they'd be facing Yates.

I agree with you 100% here.

Rey
03-02-2012, 10:58 AM
I tend to believe the longtime poster who has experienced this injury and subsequent surgery/rehab and our resident doctor who has been very accurate, over trusting the media/marketing savvy corporation trying protect and promote their brand.

The Texans history is one of CIA confidentiality and smoke screens about injuries - FROM THE VERY FIRST YEAR. Why would I be inclined to trust them now, when what they are trying to sell flies in the face of common knowledge from those who are educated about it from experience and profession?

I'm on the side of Marcus and CnD, and I'll be happy to eat some crow of Schaub is starting week 1 of the 2012 season. Don't forget, this is also the time of season ticket renewals and trade talks.

I agree with all of this and I am a believer in what CnD and Marcus has stated.

When I ask questions it isn't to discredit what they are saying, it's to get further understanding...

I don't know what they Texans are planning, but from everything I've heard/read they shouldn't be depending on Matt for next season period.

leebigeztx
03-03-2012, 08:11 PM
I'm not cnd or marcus, but I posted based on other guys with the same injury. I said before, this is yates team because schaub won't be ready till basically a year from when he went down. That's. Being very aggressive with the estimation. Some guys never comeback from this injury regradless of if they're mobile or not. I laugh when people say schaub isn't athletic and he doest need his mobility. I imagine none of these guys watched marino post achilles tear. He wasn't mobile, still had a cannon and quick release and it pretty much ended his career. Pulling away from center and setting up with no mobility kills any qb. It would especially kill a guy with an average arm like schaub who already has sow feet. Schaub is done as a texan. When he comes back, unless tj is stinking it up, he will be on the bench watching. It sucks,but that's football sometimes.

The Medic01
03-04-2012, 02:01 PM
I think he will be ready to go by week 2-3 if not week one.

drs23
03-05-2012, 08:37 PM
I think he will be ready to go by week 2-3 if not week one.

I *think* you're dead ass wrong. I'll be surprised if Matt takes another snap under center.

Could be wrong of course but there's too much out there stacked against him.

Really wanna be wrong but with TJ getting all the #1 reps all the way through I think we'll be OK.

JMO

PapaL
03-05-2012, 08:41 PM
I *think* you're dead ass wrong. I'll be surprised if Matt takes another snap under center.

Could be wrong of course but there's too much out there stacked against him.

Really wanna be wrong but with TJ getting all the #1 reps all the way through I think we'll be OK.

JMO

+1

I have a really bad feeling about this.

CloakNNNdagger
03-06-2012, 09:13 PM
As GP alluded to, Marcus has the unfortunate experience of having gained his experience first hand. Trying to help redirect him from a surgeon who apparently had poor knowledge and a poor approach to his Lisfranc situation to the physician who ultimately performed the difficult repair, is when I first "met" Marcus. As bad as it has been, Marcus is quite modest in relating the long and traumatic road that he has travelled. All my respect to you, Marcus. You never gave up........or let up.

Now, let's look at where we may be with Schaub.

This is where the most crucial stabilizing ligament in a Lisfanc injury is torn.


http://healthtips24h.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Lisfranc-Injury.jpg


For the the foot to regain stability, this connection must be restabilized with hardware until it has an opportunity to heal and regain strength.. In Schaub's case this was reportedly performed with the use of screws.


Below is an example of a Lisfranc stabilization. Note the diagonal screw that follows the course of the Lisfranc ligament shown above.


http://www.footankleinstitute.com/Portals/14171/images/Fracture010.jpg


Because the plates or screws will be placed across joints that normally are expected to have some motion, this hardware is usually removed somewhere between 3 and 6 months after surgery at the surgeon's discretion and according to the healing progress. The hardware removal is performed because when stresses are placed on them, they can break. Just as a paperclip will fail if bent repeatedly, hardware metal (in this case, screws) can fatigue and fail under stress conditions further comlicating the "recovery." It has been reported that anywhere between 25% to 50% of these hardware-repaired patients may fail and go on to require permanent bone fusion of the joint(s) resulting in the entire loss of joint mobility. In fact, as high as 75% reoperation rate for reasons other than hardware removal has been reported

Furthermore, the goal of any surgery addressing a Lisfranc injury is not only to restore the patient's anatomy, but also to preserve the involved joints. There are numerous studies implicating traumatic impact as sources of cartilage death. Transarticular (through the joint) screw placement requires drilling across an intact cartilage layer that has already sustained traumatic insult. This “second hit” may exacerbate an already complicated problem, and, potentially, accelerate the posttraumatic arthritic process. Extra-articular (outside the joint) bridge plate fixation (see below) offers a means of addressing these Lisfranc injuries without joint violation........i.e., without the screws going the the joints). But there is no mention of plates being utilized in Schaub's case.


http://www.stratmed.co.za/sites/default/files/imagecache/Product-Large-Width-600/product-images/image-6.png


Of course, Schaub could have a perfectly functional recovery. No one can say positively otherwise at this point. But all of the stars will have to be in very accomodating alignment. He has quite a number of obstacles he must overcome. Regaining movement. Overcoming usually significant pain.......sometimes chronic, permanent and debilitating. Avoiding the fear of re-injury. Avoiding re-injury.......even when not playing against Haynesworth. Being able to maximize stress on his back plant leg while passing. Pushing off during play action or avoiding the rush.

Yes, Schaub will be able to return to the field at one point in time. But for how long and how functional?...........maybe for a couple of days after which he and the coaches decide it isn't going to "happen"...............or for a couple of Super Bowls...............or somewhere in between. Although we have been told that he suffered several fractures in his Lisfranc injury, we don't really have all the details of his injury, which makes predictions that much more difficult to offer. One thing we do know is that ANY Lisfranc injury is very serious injury for all of those that must at least walk around for a living.

Wolf
03-06-2012, 09:23 PM
Thanks doc msr

ckhouston
03-06-2012, 09:44 PM
Within two weeks we will welcome Peyton Manning to the Texans. Just a hunch.

TEXANRED
03-06-2012, 09:56 PM
Within two weeks we will welcome Peyton Manning to the Texans. Just a hunch.

I am not ready to trade in the 31 year old with a foot injury for the 35 year old with the neck injury.

thunderkyss
03-07-2012, 08:57 AM
Now, let's look at where we may be with Schaub.

Of course, Schaub could have a perfectly functional recovery. No one can say positively otherwise at this point. But all of the stars will have to be in very accomodating alignment. He has quite a number of obstacles he must overcome. Regaining movement. Overcoming usually significant pain.......sometimes chronic, permanent and debilitating. Avoiding the fear of re-injury. Avoiding re-injury.......even when not playing against Haynesworth. Being able to maximize stress on his back plant leg while passing. Pushing off during play action or avoiding the rush.

Yes, Schaub will be able to return to the field at one point in time. But for how long and how functional?...........maybe for a couple of days after which he and the coaches decide it isn't going to "happen"...............or for a couple of Super Bowls...............or somewhere in between. Although we have been told that he suffered several fractures in his Lisfranc injury, we don't really have all the details of his injury, which makes predictions that much more difficult to offer. One thing we do know is that ANY Lisfranc injury is very serious injury for all of those that must at least walk around for a living.

I hope (& I do imagine) Someone has explained all this to Kubiak/Smith with as much detail & caution as you have for us; and that they act accordingly.

GP
03-07-2012, 08:59 AM
I am not ready to trade in the 31 year old with a foot injury for the 35 year old with the neck injury.

You do realize that the procedure Manning had done...players return and continue to play without the type of risk that you think would inherently occur.

The type of injury Matt sustained, it's the opposite.

You have the risk/reward scenario backwards. There's a better chance of Manning playing 3 or 4 more years than Schaub (a) returning at all, and (b) being a QB1 in the NFL in 2013.

Not trying to advocate us acquiring Manning, just saying that he has a much, much better chance than Schaub in the NFL now.

GP
03-07-2012, 09:04 AM
I hope (& I do imagine) Someone has explained all this to Kubiak/Smith with as much detail & caution as you have for us; and that they act accordingly.

One thing about Kubiak: He never gives up on anybody.

Remember how he paid a personal visit down to Beaux Bridge, LA, to ask Domanick Davis (Williams) if he wanted to give 'er the old college try the first year of Kubiak being our HC? Domanick said, "Thanks coach, but I'm done."

Kubiak had to have known he was likely done, but he still took the trip and shook the guy's hand and asked him if he wanted to try 'er again.

Ya' know, that right there tells you what kind of person Kubiak is. From that personal visit, to sticking with the Travis Johnsons and the Amobi Okoyes as long as he did. Continuing to stick with Jacoby "Punt Muffin" Jones in the divisional round of the playoffs. He's a loyal and patient man.

So I expect Kubiak to give Matt Schaub every opportunity, when the time comes, to see if Matt can give 'er another go. I think that's going to happen after the midway part of the reg season, and only in relief of Yates after we've got a lead and it gives something for Matt to work with rather than asking him to win a game or something. Just a hunch. Then again, I said we would tag Foster before Monday's deadline so what do I know....LOL.

GP
03-07-2012, 09:07 AM
CnD should be writing for one of the major sports media outlets. He makes the complex easily understood.

Can you imagine the sort of insight a sports media outlet could offer fans if they had a "From The Doc" column every week? He could enlighten fans on the latest injury sustained by some player from Sunday's game. Fantasy Football sites, alone, could garner a pretty good click rate off his columns.

But, he's our secret weapon. Thanks for all you do, doc. I couldn't give you rep because I haven't spread it around enough. But I tried.

thunderkyss
03-07-2012, 09:17 AM
From that personal visit, to sticking with the Travis Johnsons and the Amobi Okoyes as long as he did. Continuing to stick with Jacoby "Punt Muffin" Jones in the divisional round of the playoffs. He's a loyal and patient man.


I definitely don't agree that was the reason we stayed with Tj & Amobi for so long. Aside from drafting a DT with a top 10 pick, we've been running DTs through this club like nobody's business. Just hadn't been able to replace them, given what else we deal with.

Dutchrudder
03-07-2012, 09:24 AM
I seriously doubt Schaub will be ready and able in May as Kubiak said, but I would imagine that he is saying that for other reasons. What free agent WR is going to want to come to Houston if our QB might be out for a long time? Would Mario want to come back if he thought Schaub would miss significant time? How could Rick sell anyone on Super Bowl chances with TJ Yates as the starter? We saw how far he could take the team last year. Anyways, I expect May to come and go with Schaubs status being "he's progressing nicely"
Or something else equally vague.

GP
03-07-2012, 09:53 AM
I definitely don't agree that was the reason we stayed with Tj & Amobi for so long. Aside from drafting a DT with a top 10 pick, we've been running DTs through this club like nobody's business. Just hadn't been able to replace them, given what else we deal with.

Most places are so strapped to produce a winner, for an impatient owner, that they dump guys FAST if they're not working out on schedule for them.

You and I know, as do others here, that at the end of the 2010 season there was wide discontentment from the majority of people who were needing something, anything, by McNair to show that we would move on and be a winner for a change. And that involved switching the defense style, grabbing two free agents on defense, and going 99% all defense in the draft.

I think the whole organizational climate or culture of the Texans is built on slow and steady, don't rock the boat. I used to work for two organizations that had change at a glacial pace...so I can spot it from a mile away in a place like the Texans.

Kubiak fits into that culture very well. And it's paying off. Don't get me wrong. But when you have a slow and steady culture, you're going to stick with "wrong mechanisms" longer than normal. That's all I'm saying'...

GP
03-07-2012, 09:56 AM
I seriously doubt Schaub will be ready and able in May as Kubiak said, but I would imagine that he is saying that for other reasons. What free agent WR is going to want to come to Houston if our QB might be out for a long time? Would Mario want to come back if he thought Schaub would miss significant time? How could Rick sell anyone on Super Bowl chances with TJ Yates as the starter? We saw how far he could take the team last year. Anyways, I expect May to come and go with Schaubs status being "he's progressing nicely"
Or something else equally vague.

Absolutely. One thing Kubiak does well is he knows how to say the right things...not necessarily the truth, but the "right things" instead. For his employer, the Texans, he's covering all bases and saying the right things.

Kubiak is going to be the Texans HC for a very long time, IMO.

krocket
03-07-2012, 10:27 AM
With all of the negative possibilities mentioned here can we really pass on attempting to sign Peyton Manning and going for the whole enchilada now?
If Schaub recovers he still isn't the QB that Peyton is (if he is healthy). TJ has not shown me that he can take over at this point and move us to the SB but a healthy PM could.

Just an aside, if Mario walks out do we get a compensatory pick ?

b0ng
03-07-2012, 12:07 PM
With all of the negative possibilities mentioned here can we really pass on attempting to sign Peyton Manning and going for the whole enchilada now?
If Schaub recovers he still isn't the QB that Peyton is (if he is healthy). TJ has not shown me that he can take over at this point and move us to the SB but a healthy PM could.

Just an aside, if Mario walks out do we get a compensatory pick ?

Would this team wreck the salary cap for Peyton Manning and not Mario Williams? There's two big "If's" for the Texans and Peyton Manning:

"If" Manning is healthy.
"If" Manning is willing to play for a significantly less amount of money than other teams would pay him.

If you can imagine all of that working out in the Texans favor then sure, sign Manning win superbowls.

ckhouston
03-07-2012, 12:58 PM
Would this team wreck the salary cap for Peyton Manning and not Mario Williams? There's two big "If's" for the Texans and Peyton Manning:

"If" Manning is healthy.
"If" Manning is willing to play for a significantly less amount of money than other teams would pay him.

If you can imagine all of that working out in the Texans favor then sure, sign Manning win superbowls.

They wouldn't need to wreck the cap. Manning has already been quoted as saying he will sign an incentive based contract and not want guaranteed money. It would actually benefit our cap space to sign him and trade Schaub.

b0ng
03-07-2012, 01:01 PM
They wouldn't need to wreck the cap. Manning has already been quoted as saying he will sign an incentive based contract and not want guaranteed money. It would actually benefit our cap space to sign him and trade Schaub.

Still falls into the 2nd if:

"If" Manning is willing to play for a significantly less amount of money than other teams are offering him.

ckhouston
03-07-2012, 01:10 PM
Still falls into the 2nd if:

"If" Manning is willing to play for a significantly less amount of money than other teams are offering him.

True. I think he will go to a contender and wouldn't mind if it ends up being us. He wants a strong and stable front office I am hearing so we may fit that requirement. One interesting thing mentioned earlier is that he always learned the offense system of whatever team going into each pro-bowl and played their system not his. That tells me he could adapt, which was one of the things I was concerned about. Any team in our position would be foolish not to see if he is interested.

ChampionTexan
03-07-2012, 01:44 PM
They wouldn't need to wreck the cap. Manning has already been quoted as saying he will sign an incentive based contract and not want guaranteed money. It would actually benefit our cap space to sign him and trade Schaub.

You are aware that anything considered a "Likely to be earned" incentive would be counted against the 2012 cap amount? Now for a player coming off a year that was completely missed due to injury, the criteria for what's likely to be earned isn't cut and dry, but he it would necessarily be the equivalent of Manning working for a year at veteran minimum.

Even if he didn't end up reaching one or more of those incentives, the salary cap wouldn't be credited until 2013.

ckhouston
03-07-2012, 01:46 PM
You are aware that anything considered a "Likely to be earned" incentive would be counted against the 2012 cap amount, and not be the equivalent of Manning working for free for a year?

Even if he didn't end up reaching one or more of those incentives, the salary cap wouldn't be credited until 2013.

No I didn't realize that. Thanks for clearing it up.

ChampionTexan
03-07-2012, 01:49 PM
No I didn't realize that. Thanks for clearing it up.

Modified my preceding post for clarity, but I'll also add that it won't matter. Maybe Peyton would be willing to work for an incentive laden contract, but somebody that he wants to play for will be willing to give him enough guaranteed jack, that it will never happen.

ckhouston
03-07-2012, 01:52 PM
Modified my preceding post for clarity, but I'll also add that it won't matter. Maybe Peyton would be willing to work for an incentive laden contract, but somebody that he wants to play for will be willing to give him enough guaranteed jack, that it will never happen.

I seriously doubt money has any bearing in where he plays. I can see him deciding where he wants to be, and telling his agent to just make it happen. I think his priority is winning, at all costs.

ChampionTexan
03-07-2012, 02:06 PM
I seriously doubt money has any bearing in where he plays. I can see him deciding where he wants to be, and telling his agent to just make it happen. I think his priority is winning, at all costs.

So you think Peyton will choose one team and negotiate with them exclusively? First, even if there is one team he wants to play for, it's going to be pretty easy to create some sort of bidding war for his services, and he's way too smart not to make that happen. He also has a pretty big ego. While playing for a team he can win another Super Bowl with may be his highest priority, you know he believes that with him at QB, there's several teams that fit that criteria.

Finally, if he does indeed "Tell his agent to just make it happen", he has then put the process in the hands of the one participant who is motivated almost exclusively by money.

ckhouston
03-07-2012, 02:20 PM
Finally, if he does indeed "Tell his agent to just make it happen", he has then put the process in the hands of the one participant who is motivated almost exclusively by money.

However, the agent would have to do as Peyton requested, and would make plenty of money from his cut of Peyton's endorsements.

krocket
03-07-2012, 04:44 PM
Would this team wreck the salary cap for Peyton Manning and not Mario Williams? There's two big "If's" for the Texans and Peyton Manning:

"If" Manning is healthy.
"If" Manning is willing to play for a significantly less amount of money than other teams would pay him.

If you can imagine all of that working out in the Texans favor then sure, sign Manning win superbowls.

Personally, if Peyton is able to play at a high level I don't think we need Matt Schaub or Mario Williams. That ought to give us ample room to sign PM and Reggie Wayne as #2. We played very well without Mario and although I would rather keep him. I just don't think we can anyway. That should give us 20mil or so to play with. Your 2 ifs are absolute requirements and I thought that would be understood.

BTW I heard on Total Access I think today that the Manning family is not eager for Peyton to play in the NFC because of Bro vs. Bro problems. On the other hand they would love for them to meet in the SB. So I don't think Peyton is going anywhere that he doesn't think will get to the SB in the next 2 years.

thunderkyss
03-07-2012, 06:04 PM
Personally, if Peyton is able to play at a high level I don't think we need Matt Schaub or Mario Williams. That ought to give us ample room to sign PM and Reggie Wayne as #2. We played very well without Mario and although I would rather keep him. I just don't think we can anyway. That should give us 20mil or so to play with. Your 2 ifs are absolute requirements and I thought that would be understood.


If we were able to land Peyton (a healthy; capable Peyton) & Reggie Wayne (or Garcon, or hell, even Hines Ward), that would be one helluvah off-season.

I wouldn't mind going defense heavy again, or straight BPA in the draft.

TEXANRED
03-07-2012, 06:47 PM
If we were able to land Peyton (a healthy; capable Peyton) & Reggie Wayne (or Garcon, or hell, even Hines Ward), that would be one helluvah off-season.

I wouldn't mind going defense heavy again, or straight BPA in the draft.

Manning is old and coming off multiple neck surgeries and Wayne is old and past his prime.

I like the core group of guys we got and I think bringing in someone like Wayne or Manning destroys what we got going on. This is a build through the draft team.

What we need to do is worry about signing Mario and Meyers. Getting those two signed would mean we had a hell of an off season.

djohn2oo8
03-07-2012, 06:51 PM
Manning is old and coming off multiple neck surgeries and Wayne is old and past his prime.

I like the core group of guys we got and I think bringing in someone like Wayne or Manning destroys what we got going on. This is a build through the draft team.

What we need to do is worry about signing Mario and Meyers. Getting those two signed would mean we had a hell of an off season.

Bringing in Reggie Wayne would destroy what we have goin on? :kubepalm: And Foster was an UDFA btw.

TEXANRED
03-07-2012, 07:02 PM
You do realize that the procedure Manning had done...players return and continue to play without the type of risk that you think would inherently occur.

The type of injury Matt sustained, it's the opposite.

You have the risk/reward scenario backwards. There's a better chance of Manning playing 3 or 4 more years than Schaub (a) returning at all, and (b) being a QB1 in the NFL in 2013.

Not trying to advocate us acquiring Manning, just saying that he has a much, much better chance than Schaub in the NFL now.
I wouldn't say better, even maybe. NFL players age in dog years. In fact if Manning were a dog we would have said a few kind words, shed a few tears, and put him down while he slept. There have been QB's in this league that have been a man of his age and still won a superbowl, I just don't think any that were his age (and I could be wrong) were able to pick up, move to a new team with new players, coach's, and schemes and been able to perform at a high level.

TEXANRED
03-07-2012, 07:06 PM
Bringing in Reggie Wayne would destroy what we have goin on? :kubepalm: And Foster was an UDFA btw.

Foster was a UDFA signed after the draft ended. He was not a veteran FA.

Wayne ranks up there with Eric Moulds. I would much rather see us draft a WR in the draft and bring up LeStar Jean, who was also a UDFA.

Rey
03-07-2012, 07:17 PM
Foster was a UDFA signed after the draft ended. He was not a veteran FA.

Wayne ranks up there with Eric Moulds. I would much rather see us draft a WR in the draft and bring up LeStar Jean, who was also a UDFA.

I understand Moulds wasn't all that as a Texan, but a lot of that, IMO, had to do with Carr..

Vinny
03-07-2012, 08:30 PM
I understand Moulds wasn't all that as a Texan, but a lot of that, IMO, had to do with Carr..I'm the first one to blame everything on Carr...I think even the Myans has some script about Carr dooming the Texans with an apocalyptic pick, but Moulds couldn't beat Chris Myers in a 40 yard dash when he was with the Texans (hyperbole).

Texan_Bill
03-07-2012, 08:38 PM
I'm the first one to blame everything on Carr...I think even the Myans has some script about Carr dooming the Texans with an apocalyptic pick, but Moulds couldn't beat Chris Myers in a 40 yard dash when he was with the Texans (hyperbole).

(hyperbole) OR NOT, there is a certain amount of, WELL a hellavu lot amount of truth to that... Eric Moulds was (in my best Charles Barkley voice), "just Tuuuuurbble"!!!

The Bills knew something. Apparently our Front Office DI' iNT!!!!

thunderkyss
03-07-2012, 10:20 PM
Wayne ranks up there with Eric Moulds. I would much rather see us draft a WR in the draft and bring up LeStar Jean, who was also a UDFA.

No reason we can't bring Wayne, LeStar, & Stephen Hill...