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redwhiteblue
02-24-2012, 04:52 PM
Houston Texans General Manager/Executive Vice President Rick Smith
(on the Texans’ biggest needs heading into 2012) “First of all, coming off the season that we came off, and having the success that we had for the first time for an organization, you go back to the drawing board again no different than you did every year before. It’s a very honest assessment of where we are, where we feel like we’re strong, where we think we need to improve. And when you look at those areas, I think the wide receiver position is a position where we might strengthen our team. You can never have enough corners. I know I always say that. Pass rushing is a premium. I mean, it’s pretty standard. We look for guys that make plays, that impact the game. We can never find or have too many players that impact the game, whether you’re talking about a pass-rusher or guy who can take the ball and make a play with the ball in his hands.”



(on if he will draft with the best-player-available approach) “We always do. We stay true to our board and that’s not a philosophy that we’re going to alter because I think it gives you the best chance to have success. If you assess value and you follow the value of your board and don’t stretch for need, because I think that’s where people make mistakes. We’ve not done that before and I would suspect that we stay true to that philosophy and not do that in the future.”



(on if it is impossible to align the team’s priorities until figures out what it’s going to do with OLB Mario Williams) “No, it’s not impossible. Not at all. We’ve assessed our team. Obviously, there are variables that you always have to adjust to but I think we understand what we have and where we need to go and then you adjust as the process plays itself out.”



(on how he approaches players who have issues off the field) “It’s a function of research and trying to get to know the player. We take a position that we don’t penalize a player or kill a player because he made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. What you don’t want, you don’t want repeat offenders because that will indicate something that’s maybe a deeper issues. We won’t just take a player off of our board for character reasons if he makes a single mistake. If there is repeated, repetitive behavior that suggests something different than that, then we become a little bit more concerned and that’s what this process is about. That’s what the process that our scouts have been evaluating these players over the last few months, so we’ll take all that information and assess how comfortable we feel or where we feel that there is a risk more so than another. Character is important. It’s always been important. I think again, I’ve said a lot, where you see that is in the fourth quarter. When you’ve got players that (have) quote en quote ‘character,’ what does that mean? That means that they’re disciplined, they execute when they’re supposed to execute. If you’ve got a team full of players who have that discipline in the fourth quarter, in the big time in the game where the pressure is at its height, those guys with discipline tend to continue to do the things that they need to do in order to perform and execute and continue to be successful.”



(on if he takes a hard look at someone with first-round talent who has had two or three transgressions rather than discarding that player) “In my opinion, it’s all about the value. It’s how assess the risk. How much value are you going to place on a player or how much risk are you willing to take compared to where you think his behavior (is).”



(on if he’s reluctant to put the franchise tag on RB Arian Foster and if he thinks more restricted free agents will now get the franchise tag with the new CBA rules) “Obviously, it’s way too early to determine or to predict a trend. We are having all of those conversations and discussions, without revealing too much of what our thought process is. We will use every available option that we have and try to do, we’ll try to make the decisions that give us the best chance to impact our team overall. Whether we’re talking about a Mario (Williams), an Arian (Foster) or a Chris Myers or whoever we’re talking about with respect to our guys that we would like to sign back that are in some form of free agency, whether it’s restricted or unrestricted. What we’re trying to do is put together a game plan together that gives us the best chance to have the best overall football team.”



(on if there’s any regret that the franchise tag number is so big with the new CBA deal) “No. First of all, I don’t live in regret that way. I didn’t write the deal. It’s function of the first pick in the draft. It’s a function of the timing of going into the last cap year. There’s a number of nuances and variables that impacted and affected that deal. It was what it was and we had to deal with it. Mario (Wiliams) is a great player and we want him to be a part of our football team and our organization, so we’re working hard to figure out a way to get that done.”



(on if he anticipates more contract restructuring to help with the team’s salary cap situation) “Yeah. We have to. That’s what we’ve got to do. We’ve got to look at some deals and restructure some contracts and try to get as creative…I’ve challenged (vice president of football administration) Chris Olsen to come up with as many available opportunities that we have. The goal is to build the best football team that we can build.”



(on the process of restructuring the Texans’ defense from a 4-3 to a 3-4) “In the sense of a transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4, it started actually a couple weeks ago a year ago, when we hired (defensive coordinator) Wade (Phillips). Meeting with our scouts, sitting down with Wade and talking to him and getting a real idea of what he was looking for; watching a ton of tape with him and the defensive coaches and gaining some insight as to what type of player fit into the defense and then going to the Senior Bowl and corralling the scouts and talking to them. Making sure that everybody understood what we were looking for. And then just going through the process and again, staying true to the value that we placed on players. We were fortunate. We were fortunate that J.J. Watt turned out to be an excellent football player. I think he made more impact plays than anybody thought he would. We knew he would be a great player but I don’t think anybody knew that he would make an impact on a game as much as he did. That was certainly something that was nice and then the second round pick with Brooks (Reed). So we did some things. We were able to come together as a group and identify the players that fit the system and the scheme. And then we were fortunate as the Draft kind of fell that we were able to pick some players that were good for our system.”



(on what he looks for in developing a college player into a 3-4 outside linebacker) “I think the first thing is pass rush. Is there some sort of natural pass-rush ability is what you look for. Then you look at the athleticism. Then you look at what type of football instincts and all the other things that kind of come on. One of the things we put a premium on is pass rush. And you mentioned the projection; when we made this transition last year, we did not have one linebacker on our team, whether you talk about a Brooks Reed or any other player, or Mario (Williams), any of them that had played in that position. They were all projections. We were fortunate. Even projecting (Brian) Cushing inside was a projection. It worked out for us. I think have to say that in that context of our defense and the way that they performed, in light of how we handled adversity and injury through the year, I cannot say how effective a job our coaching staff did. I mean, it was impressive to watch those guys week-in and week-out get the team ready regardless of who was going on the field and had them out there executing on a high level. That’s a testament to the job Gary (Kubiak) and his staff did.”



(on if he’d be more aggressive trading up in the Draft if the opportunity arose now that his roster depth is as strong as it’s been) “Yeah, all of those things. Just because we haven’t done it doesn’t mean we haven’t run the exercise and thought about it and all of those kinds of things. It’s just that we have not been in the situation where it was proven to do it. We will still entertain any, and I’ve always said this, we will entertain any opportunity we can, whether it’s moving up or moving back to better our football team. Those moves, as you know, are expensive. You’ve got to make sure that if you’re going to do something, whether you’re talking about moving up 10 spots or however far, you’ve got to make sure that you’ve got a player that’s worth whatever the value is of the move. The last time we had this pick, we didn’t start the Draft with the 26th pick. We started I think at 20 and we moved back with Baltimore and traded back to 26 and picked up an extra third round pick. So we’re always moving and we’re always entertaining those options and if it’s something that we think will help us, then we’ll do it.”



(on this year’s draft class) “I tend to stay away from overall evaluations of the classes. I think that when you look at players, what we look for in that group, I guess I’ll stay specific to that, is guys that make plays on the ball. I think that that’s a premium. Turnovers are a premium in this League to the degree that you have a group of players in your secondary that can make plays on the ball. I think that’s what Johnathan Joseph, one of the things he added; Danieal Manning, they added that element to our secondary. And there are some players in this class that have that ability.”



(on if there is a level of influence from an assistant coach that can be too much in a draft selection regarding a player’s success or failure because he put his name on the line) “I think that’s the responsibility of whoever is in charge of running the draft. I don’t think that’s specific to coaches. I think scouts will have the same type of affinity for a player. You want that. You want conviction in the draft room. You want people to step up and say ‘This guy can makes plays for us.’ It’s a matter of the decision-making process at that point to weight the opinion, to weight how significant that drives the decision. But you want people with conviction in your draft room and then it’s just a matter of making sure your process is set up such that like you said, it’s not skewed, but it falls into line with everything else that you make a good decision.”



(on if he had to push the envelope with injuries playing OLBs Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed as much as the Texans did and how much the Texans need a third outside linebacker) “Pass rushers are premiums. You need as many as you can get, so we were fortunate in the sense that both of those guys were healthy the entire year and we had some production from both of them. But you can never have too many pass rushers. You can’t.”



(on wanting OLB Mario Williams to remain a Texans) “Yeah. I think we’ve been very clear. They’ve been very clear that we would love to have him here. And I don’t talk a whole bunch about negotiations publicly, but I think that there is no doubt that all the parties involved know what the desire is and that’s for him to be here.”



(on the chances that the Texans make moves in free agency as big as they did last year) “You know what, and again, this goes back to philosophy; we feel like it’s prudent to build through the draft and that’s our philosophy, and then you supplement via free agency. I think you’ve seen that over the years in what we’ve done. I think we were obviously a major player in free agency last year and so if we are staying true to form, I would anticipate that we would not be as active this year. Again, if there’s an opportunity for us to get better and we think that it’s by free-agent acquisition, we’re not going to be shy about doing it. I would not expect that we would be as active as we were last year unless an opportunity presents itself that way.”



(on if there is something you can gain from watching “throwing quarterbacks” at the Combine, as the Texans did with QB T.J. Yates last year) “I think what you get here is you get an athletic grade and you get an opportunity to talk and get to know the guy a little bit better in an interview setting and all the testing. The body of work is what he does on tape, especially at that position. But you can see his arm live. You can do some things if you hadn’t had a live exposure or any kind of view. You can see some of those athletic things. But really, you’ve got to use the body of work, a guy’s playing resume on tape. That’s where we put the most emphasis on our evaluation process.”



(on if something stood out about QB T.J. Yates at last year’s Combine) “First of all, you look at the offense that he ran and how similar it was to ours. You looked at the competitive way he led his football team in the face of a ton of adversity. You looked at his ability to be accurate with the football, his ability to make all the throws. He doesn’t have a super gun, but he’s got a strong enough arm to make all the throws. You start to look at all those factors and you got excited about the guy and we really did. We’re fortunate and the job that he did was pretty incredible for a young guy to come in and lead the football team like that in the games late in the year and win a playoff game and to go on the road the way that he did and compete. Those are some of the things that you saw from him just from a competitive standpoint and a playing standpoint and what he could do physically that you said, ‘Hey, this guy might have a chance to be pretty good in our system.”



(on not drafting for need but making his first five draft picks defensive players last year) “Yeah, but again, when you hit the homerun, and I guess I would consider J.J. (Watt) to be a homerun, where you hit the homerun is as you stack your board and assess value. If you can pick a player at the corresponding spot that is a position of need, that’s a homerun. So you don’t go into the Draft saying ‘I’ve got to get this. I’ve got to get that,’ because, in my opinion, if you do that, you are inclined to reach and take a player that doesn’t meet the value. It’s not that you don’t select players in positions that you need. The key is that they have the corresponding value at the point where you are picking and if you do that, and you can hit a player at a position of need at the value spot, then you are good.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Rick-Smith-at-Combine/93224fca-a8a8-4b57-975e-c6ad081ec479

redwhiteblue
02-24-2012, 04:56 PM
KUBIAK Quotes

The No. 1 overall pick in 2006, Williams was Kubiak’s first draft choice with the Texans. He has a team-record 53 sacks over the last six seasons, including five in 2011. If not for a Week 5 season-ending pectoral injury, the Texans think he could have contended for the league lead in sacks in his first year under defensive coordinator Wade Phillips.

“Mario’s part of the growth of this organization when we started back at the bottom what six years ago,” Kubiak said. “Was a great draft choice for our organization; has played extremely well. Was playing at the top of his game under Wade’s system, playing the outside linebacker. So we think a great deal of Mario as a player and even more as a person. He’s been wonderful for our team and our city.”

Foster, an undrafted free agent in 2009, is coming off back-to-back Pro Bowl seasons. He led the league in rushing in 2010 and finished fifth in 2011 despite missing three-and-a-half games.

“Arian’s a three-down player,” Kubiak said. “It’s hard to find backs in the league nowadays that never leave the field. Arian never leaves the field. His hands, what he can do catching the ball can be just as dangerous as he can running it, in a lot of ways. He’s very smart, excellent in protection schemes and what he does.

“Arian’s been exceptional for our football team, and yet he’s been very unselfish, too. Arian played without talking about numbers and contracts. Arian held up his end of the bargain last year as a player, and there’s a lot to be said for that, the way he stepped in and did his job.”

Myers and Brisiel have been overshadowed by Williams and Foster in free agency speculation, but they’re an integral part of the Texans’ success in the running game. The Texans ranked second in the NFL last season with a franchise-record 153.0 rushing yards per game. Myers made the Pro Bowl, while Brisiel was named captain of the USA Today “All-Joe” Team.

“They mean a great deal,” Kubiak said of the two linemen. “Up front, we’ve played the same five guys for almost two or three years now in a row, and I think that’s why we’ve made so much progress.

“Chris is the leader of the group. He makes all the calls. He’s been exceptional for us. We got Chris for a sixth-round draft choice a few years ago, and (offensive line coach) John Benton’s done a great job developing him. Mike Brisiel as well. Mike was a free agent that John did a great job of developing.

“The key in this business to being good in the long haul is holding people together, so we’ve got that situation on our hands with those two players, and we’re going to do everything we can to keep the group together moving forward.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Texans-working-hard-to-keep-key-free-agents/1efe4323-084c-46d0-811b-6aeb3ba1660d

mussop
02-24-2012, 05:32 PM
nice find, thanks for posting!

mussop
02-24-2012, 05:36 PM
(on not drafting for need but making his first five draft picks defensive players last year) “Yeah, but again, when you hit the homerun, and I guess I would consider J.J. (Watt) to be a homerun, where you hit the homerun is as you stack your board and assess value. If you can pick a player at the corresponding spot that is a position of need, that’s a homerun. So you don’t go into the Draft saying ‘I’ve got to get this. I’ve got to get that,’ because, in my opinion, if you do that, you are inclined to reach and take a player that doesn’t meet the value. It’s not that you don’t select players in positions that you need. The key is that they have the corresponding value at the point where you are picking and if you do that, and you can hit a player at a position of need at the value spot, then you are good.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Rick-Smith-at-Combine/93224fca-a8a8-4b57-975e-c6ad081ec479

:clap: Like I have said a 10000000000 times!

badboy
02-24-2012, 06:18 PM
Enjoyed the read.

steelbtexan
02-24-2012, 06:43 PM
Rick? KJ was BPA? LOL

Rick, Let Wade continue to pick the defensive players and Gary pick the offensive players. You proved your drafting ability when Gary had the elective surgery and you were the main guy at the combine. Thanks for the KJ/OkOye picks.

Continue on with your figurehead position and let the cap guys do their jobs. As a guy with a position on the competition commitee I would like to thank you for the many rules changes that are ruining the game I love. How did you get a place on the competition commitee to begin with? Were you qualified? What are you qualifications to be on such an important panel?

badboy
02-24-2012, 07:00 PM
Rick? KJ was BPA? LOL

Rick, Let Wade continue to pick the defensive players and Gary pick the offensive players. You proved your drafting ability when Gary had the elective surgery and you were the main guy at the combine. Thanks for the KJ/OkOye picks.

Continue on with your figurehead position and let the cap guys do their jobs. As a guy with a position on the competition commitee I would like to thank you for the many rules changes that are ruining the game I love. How did you get a place on the competition commitee to begin with? Were you qualified? What are you aliqufications to be on such an important panel?He is McNair's boy and Bob has great influence or at least the czar doesn't want to piss him off unnecessarily.

Doppelganger
02-25-2012, 05:37 PM
Rick? KJ was BPA? LOL

Rick, Let Wade continue to pick the defensive players and Gary pick the offensive players. You proved your drafting ability when Gary had the elective surgery and you were the main guy at the combine. Thanks for the KJ/OkOye picks.

Continue on with your figurehead position and let the cap guys do their jobs. As a guy with a position on the competition commitee I would like to thank you for the many rules changes that are ruining the game I love. How did you get a place on the competition commitee to begin with? Were you qualified? What are you qualifications to be on such an important panel?

The fact that Rick thinks KJ was the BPA is scary. I could name a whole host of players that were better than KJ. KJ was a reach becuase the Texans NEEDED a CB and Rick thought he was the best option.

wildroot
02-25-2012, 09:59 PM
Yeah, and I have a hard time believing that we picked the BPA on our first 5 picks last year and they just happened to all be defensive players...and coincedentally we just happened to sign a new DC and he needed to rebuild our defense. Imagine that!

I would'nt be so quick to believe everything that comes out of Rick and Gary's mouth.

gary
02-25-2012, 10:18 PM
Smith seems like a bigger problem than Kubiak himself.

ObsiWan
02-25-2012, 10:35 PM
Rick? KJ was BPA? LOL

Rick, Let Wade continue to pick the defensive players and Gary pick the offensive players. You proved your drafting ability when Gary had the elective surgery and you were the main guy at the combine. Thanks for the KJ/OkOye picks.

Continue on with your figurehead position and let the cap guys do their jobs. As a guy with a position on the competition commitee I would like to thank you for the many rules changes that are ruining the game I love. How did you get a place on the competition commitee to begin with? Were you qualified? What are you qualifications to be on such an important panel?

The fact that Rick thinks KJ was the BPA is scary. I could name a whole host of players that were better than KJ. KJ was a reach becuase the Texans NEEDED a CB and Rick thought he was the best option.

Remember when KJ was picked, we had quite a different coaching staff feeding Rick Smith information. Most likely it was Frank Bush and his defensive staff that made this "BPA" assessment reguarding KJ; not Smith alone. The proof is in the difference between Wade's draft and Bush's draft. One can only guess who Wade would have selected in 2010.

Smith's forte' is snagging free agents. While he hasn't batted 1.000 (and who does?) he's done fairly well filling holes with guys off the streets. He'll do well to leave the draft picks to the coaches.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 06:17 AM
Rick? KJ was BPA? LOL

Rick, Let Wade continue to pick the defensive players and Gary pick the offensive players. You proved your drafting ability when Gary had the elective surgery and you were the main guy at the combine. Thanks for the KJ/OkOye picks.

Continue on with your figurehead position and let the cap guys do their jobs. As a guy with a position on the competition commitee I would like to thank you for the many rules changes that are ruining the game I love. How did you get a place on the competition commitee to begin with? Were you qualified? What are you qualifications to be on such an important panel?

So I guess Bob & Gary are "forcing" Wade to play Kj ahead of his own 2nd round draft choice? Maybe they're forcing Wade to play Kj, Allen, & McClain over his "hand-picked" 2nd rounder.

Or Wade didn't "pick" the players in the 2011 draft like we "presume."

The fact that Rick thinks KJ was the BPA is scary. I could name a whole host of players that were better than KJ. KJ was a reach becuase the Texans NEEDED a CB and Rick thought he was the best option.

How was Kj a reach, when there were two at that spot that would have agreed with "every" draft board publicly published at that time, Wilson & McCourty. Wilson would have been the most acceptable pick as he was "rated" higher by all the draftniks, but McCourty was the one that went to the Pro Bowl.

Smartest man in the room..... yeah, maybe that was Rick's problem, but reach? There were three corners available & Smith could have his pick.

Yeah, and I have a hard time believing that we picked the BPA on our first 5 picks last year and they just happened to all be defensive players...and coincedentally we just happened to sign a new DC and he needed to rebuild our defense. Imagine that!

I would'nt be so quick to believe everything that comes out of Rick and Gary's mouth.

Because you don't understand BPA.


(on not drafting for need but making his first five draft picks defensive players last year) “Yeah, but again, when you hit the homerun, and I guess I would consider J.J. (Watt) to be a homerun, where you hit the homerun is as you stack your board and assess value. If you can pick a player at the corresponding spot that is a position of need, that’s a homerun. So you don’t go into the Draft saying ‘I’ve got to get this. I’ve got to get that,’ because, in my opinion, if you do that, you are inclined to reach and take a player that doesn’t meet the value. It’s not that you don’t select players in positions that you need. The key is that they have the corresponding value at the point where you are picking and if you do that, and you can hit a player at a position of need at the value spot, then you are good.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Rick-Smith-at-Combine/93224fca-a8a8-4b57-975e-c6ad081ec479

One minute we're raving about the talent on this team.... the next minute were raving about the dumbasses that selected & developed that talent.


:vincepalm:

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 06:36 AM
Remember when KJ was picked, we had quite a different coaching staff feeding Rick Smith information. Most likely it was Frank Bush and his defensive staff that made this "BPA" assessment reguarding KJ; not Smith alone. The proof is in the difference between Wade's draft and Bush's draft. One can only guess who Wade would have selected in 2010.


Or, maybe there is no difference between the 2010 & 2011 draft.

Kj ---------Watt
Tate--------Reed
Mitchell----Harris
Sharpton--Carmichael


For this argument, let's say they got the Kj pick wrong (I'm not ready to say that) I still think they hit very well on the other three.

You're going to miss every now & then on first round picks.

Okoye----------- Miss
Brown----------- Hit
Cushing--------- Hit
Kj----------------Miss
Watt------------- Hit

I think he's doing more good than not, especially if Kj lives up to his spot in his 3rd year.

ObsiWan
02-26-2012, 08:23 AM
Or, maybe there is no difference between the 2010 & 2011 draft.

Kj ---------Watt
Tate--------Reed
Mitchell----Harris
Sharpton--Carmichael


For this argument, let's say they got the Kj pick wrong (I'm not ready to say that) I still think they hit very well on the other three.

You're going to miss every now & then on first round picks.

Okoye----------- Miss
Brown----------- Hit
Cushing--------- Hit
Kj----------------Miss
Watt------------- Hit

I think he's doing more good than not, especially if Kj lives up to his spot in his 3rd year.

I'm not so sure Okoye was a complete "miss". Back in 2007 we still needed to give Mario some D-line help. Think about it - we were still hoping for Travis Johnson to come into his own and trying to get some mileage out of Jeff Zgonina for goodness sakes!. Okoye was one of the best DT prospects in that draft. The next DT taken was Harrell (GB) and he's not really done as well as Okoye did his first couple of years - I think he's out of the league. I took a look at all the other DTs drafted after Okoye and none of them are noteworthy.

This draft we can go more to a pure BPA approach because we don't really have any gaping holes to address. Anyone we draft - no matter the round - will have a tough time cracking the starting lineup.

ObsiWan
02-26-2012, 08:25 AM
One minute we're raving about the talent on this team.... the next minute were raving about the dumbasses that selected & developed that talent.


:vincepalm:

That is rather contradictory isn't it....
:hmmm:

BullBlitz
02-26-2012, 08:48 AM
Rick Smith has not proven to be a good judge of potential NFL talent. As GM of the Texans, his overall record of drafting defensive backs has been surprisingly poor, especially since he was a DB himself at Purdue. To be fair, the credit for the success of last year's draft of Watt, Reed and other defensive players goes to Wade.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 10:24 AM
To be fair, the credit for the success of last year's draft of Watt, Reed and other defensive players goes to Wade.

Because Wade has a long history of drafting good to great players?

:ok:

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 10:35 AM
Remember when KJ was picked, we had quite a different coaching staff feeding Rick Smith information. Most likely it was Frank Bush and his defensive staff that made this "BPA" assessment reguarding KJ; not Smith alone. The proof is in the difference between Wade's draft and Bush's draft. One can only guess who Wade would have selected in 2010.

Smith's forte' is snagging free agents. While he hasn't batted 1.000 (and who does?) he's done fairly well filling holes with guys off the streets. He'll do well to leave the draft picks to the coaches.

Rick is the gm.

Going 3 for 5 on 1st rd picks= Fail

Letting Bush talk you into picking KJ when you played CB in college and you are the GM should be a firable offense.Does Rick spend time watching tape like Jerry Reese does? Or does Rick spend most of his time smoozing with BoB and the competition committee like Casserly spent with his NFL office buddies? Again what were Ricks qualifications to be on the committee again? Wasn't he a 2nd yr GM when he was appointed? Yeah he had really earned that prestigious position.

Rick is a teflon man. He says the right things and nothing ever sticks to him. But he's not very good at his job as GM. Which should be aquiring the best talent possible for the Texans. Just let Wade/Gary do his job and be done with it. But dont sit there and tell me your taking the BPA. When you're actually taking whoever Wade/Gary are telling you to take. (It's offensive) Look, Rick you've got a good place in life, dont over play your hand.

I hated working for bosses like Rick, all style no substance.

KJ wasn't BPA if you include the offensive and defensive side of the ball.

Rey
02-26-2012, 10:47 AM
I like the part where he talked about character concerns..That is encouraging as there are a couple guys that I want them to look at with some blemishes..

Do your homework Rick!!

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 10:51 AM
Because Wade has a long history of drafting good to great players?

:ok:

When has Wade ever gotten the chance to draft his own players?

Denver? no

Buffalo? No, John Butler
Dallass? No, Jerrah

Last yr is the 1st time in Wades career that he got to call the shots on draft. The results ended up fantastic.

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 10:52 AM
I like the part where he talked about character concerns..That is encouraging as there are a couple guys that I want them to look at with some blemishes..

Do your homework Rick!!

Janzen Jackson?

Me too

drs23
02-26-2012, 10:54 AM
Rick is the gm.

Going 3 for 5 on 1st rd picks= Fail

Letting Bush talk you into picking KJ when you played CB in college and you are the GM should be a firable offense.Does Rick spend time watching tape like Jerry Reese does? Or does Rick spend most of his time smoozing with BoB and the competition like Casserly spent with his NFL office buddies?

KJ wasn't BPA if you include the offensive and defensive side of the ball.

steelb,

You know as well as everyone else that there's got to be some discretion employed here (read HC GM speak). All teams publicly state they're going to draft BPA when in fact what they really mean is BPA (in their opinion) at our position of NEED. No :homer:ism involved here but the proof is in the puddin'. The roster says they've done a pretty good job.

They won the AFC South. By default I guess. No #18, soft schedule, yada, yada.

Had they went on to win the SB there would still be those here that could & would find fault whether it be imagined or made up.

I *thought* I read one, perhaps two positive statements you made about the team this past season, but then, maybe not. :gun:

BullBlitz
02-26-2012, 11:09 AM
Because Wade has a long history of drafting good to great players?

:ok:

No, because Rick has a long history of making more mistakes than successes, and because Wade was the new catalyst last year and they gave him the defense and the final say in the defensive draft picks.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 11:27 AM
Rick is the gm.

Going 3 for 5 on 1st rd picks= Fail

Letting Bush talk you into picking KJ

Rick spend most of his time smoozing with BoB and the competition committee

Rick is a teflon man.

But he's not very good at his job as GM.

Which should be aquiring the best talent possible for the Texans. Just let Wade/Gary do his job and be done with it. But dont sit there and tell me your taking the BPA. When you're actually taking whoever Wade/Gary are telling you to take. (It's offensive) Look, Rick you've got a good place in life, dont over play your hand.

KJ wasn't BPA if you include the offensive and defensive side of the ball.

If you weren't sitting on your ass for most of your life drinking away your brain cells, you could be running your own NFL team.


Don't like it when people judge you making off the wall assumptions do you?


(I don't really think you were sitting on your ass drinking your brain cells away, I posted that to make a point.. no offense intended.)

GP
02-26-2012, 11:27 AM
steelb,

You know as well as everyone else that there's got to be some discretion employed here (read HC GM speak). All teams publicly state they're going to draft BPA when in fact what they really mean is BPA (in their opinion) at our position of NEED. No :homer:ism involved here but the proof is in the puddin'. The roster says they've done a pretty good job.

They won the AFC South. By default I guess. No #18, soft schedule, yada, yada.

Had they went on to win the SB there would still be those here that could & would find fault whether it be imagined or made up.

I *thought* I read one, perhaps two positive statements you made about the team this past season, but then, maybe not. :gun:

Repped.

BPA means BPA at whatever position we want to select with a particular pick.

The whole "BPA" thing is so funny, IMO.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 11:28 AM
When has Wade ever gotten the chance to draft his own players?

Denver? no

Buffalo? No, John Butler
Dallass? No, Jerrah

Last yr is the 1st time in Wades career that he got to call the shots on draft. The results ended up fantastic.

How do you know he wasn't drafting his own players in Denver, Buffalo, or Dallas?

& what makes you think he drafted his own players in Houston?

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 11:50 AM
No, because Rick has a long history of making more mistakes than successes, and because Wade was the new catalyst last year and they gave him the defense and the final say in the defensive draft picks.

FYI, that's just speculation.

Another thing, in the last three years, our defense "averages" out to be pretty darn good. Going from worst to first from 2010 to 2011 is remarkable indeed... unless you take into account where we were in 2009.

10th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go) against the run, & improving across the board at the end of the season.

We lost half of our DL rotation before the end of our first game in 2010 (Bullman in the preseason & Barwin week 1). We only had one game all season when we started all three of our starting LBs (Cushing, Demeco, Diles)..... & Eugene Wilson obviously lost a step.

& while I didn't think much of Dunta Robinson's on field ability, starting a rookie & approaching the game with what appeared to be a "protect the rookie" philosophy didn't help.

Not taking anything away from Wade, I'd much rather Wade Phillips than Frank Bush..... but we also gave Wade Jj Watt (in place of Amobi Okoye), Conor Barwin, Cushing, and Jonathan Joseph & Danieal Manning (I'm sure those were Wade's idea as well right?)...

Look, the defense stayed healthy through 2009, they had a good year. Didn't stay healthy through 2010... didn't look good. Stayed healthy (mostly) through 2011... they looked good. Football Outsiders called it (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2010/07/football-outsiders-predicts-the-texans-to-win-6-games-or-less/) before the 2010 season (6 wins, because of defensive injuries).

Lucky
02-26-2012, 12:02 PM
& what makes you think he drafted his own players in Houston?
It has been reported that Wade gave Smith a list of players he wanted. And Smith got 5 of them.

ObsiWan
02-26-2012, 12:12 PM
Rick is the gm.

Going 3 for 5 on 1st rd picks= Fail

Letting Bush talk you into picking KJ when you played CB in college and you are the GM should be a firable offense.Does Rick spend time watching tape like Jerry Reese does? Or does Rick spend most of his time smoozing with BoB and the competition like Casserly spent with his NFL office buddies?

KJ wasn't BPA if you include the offensive and defensive side of the ball.


Batting .600 is excellent in any league. Unless you can name a GM that bats 1.000 you're talking out of your hat. Please... show me a GM that has hit on EVERY 1st round pick he ever selected. Or just show me one that's hit on better than 3 out of 5 of his first round picks over a five year period.

TimeKiller
02-26-2012, 12:20 PM
Rick Smith has not proven to be a good judge of potential NFL talent. As GM of the Texans, his overall record of drafting defensive backs has been surprisingly poor, especially since he was a DB himself at Purdue. To be fair, the credit for the success of last year's draft of Watt, Reed and other defensive players goes to Wade.

I've never put that together until I read your post, he really has a surprisingly poor read on the very position he played. Bennett, Molden, Barber, KJ is still batting but has a few strikes, McMannis, McCain, Quin, Harris, Carmichael and Keo. Kind of a hot mess when 1 out of 10 picks turned into a decent player.

TimeKiller
02-26-2012, 12:27 PM
Batting .600 is excellent in any league. Unless you can name a GM that bats 1.000 you're talking out of your hat. Please... show me a GM that has hit on EVERY 1st round pick he ever selected. Or just show me one that's hit on better than 3 out of 5 of his first round picks over a five year period.

Probably could just list off a few of the recent SB winners. Packers, Giants, Steelers, so on. I'm not saying you're wrong, as far as 1st rounders go .600 isn't bad but there are teams that do better.

ObsiWan
02-26-2012, 12:29 PM
It has been reported that Wade gave Smith a list of players he wanted. And Smith got 5 of them.

I would think that is the job of the GM. Get the need list (i.e., the type of players they need for their scheme) from the coaches, input from the scouting staff on who best fills those needs, and make the moves necessary to snag as many of the guys on the shopping list as possible. And as a bonus, make draft day trades that result in extra picks. Once those picks are made, get the rookies signed up in time for camp.

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 12:46 PM
steelb,

You know as well as everyone else that there's got to be some discretion employed here (read HC GM speak). All teams publicly state they're going to draft BPA when in fact what they really mean is BPA (in their opinion) at our position of NEED. No :homer:ism involved here but the proof is in the puddin'. The roster says they've done a pretty good job.

They won the AFC South. By default I guess. No #18, soft schedule, yada, yada.

Had they went on to win the SB there would still be those here that could & would find fault whether it be imagined or made up.

I *thought* I read one, perhaps two positive statements you made about the team this past season, but then, maybe not. :gun:

I've made many positive statements.

Gary bringing along Yates was genius

Wade building a championship quality defense. Getting his guys to buy in.

Gary improving his gameday use of timeouts/challenges. etc....

But I get offended when Rick steps up to the podium and says the Texans always select the BPA. That's a lie. Rick is blowing smoke up his fabase a**l.

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 12:50 PM
If you weren't sitting on your ass for most of your life drinking away your brain cells, you could be running your own NFL team.


Don't like it when people judge you making off the wall assumptions do you?


(I don't really think you were sitting on your ass drinking your brain cells away, I posted that to make a point.. no offense intended.)

Point taken

And you happen to be wrong and slightly offensive.

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 01:07 PM
FYI, that's just speculation.

Another thing, in the last three years, our defense "averages" out to be pretty darn good. Going from worst to first from 2010 to 2011 is remarkable indeed... unless you take into account where we were in 2009.

10th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go) against the run, & improving across the board at the end of the season.

We lost half of our DL rotation before the end of our first game in 2011 (Bullman in the preseason & Barwin week 1). We only had one game all season when we started all three of our starting LBs (Cushing, Demeco, Diles)..... & Eugene Wilson obviously lost a step.

& while I didn't think much of Dunta Robinson's on field ability, starting a rookie & approaching the game with what appeared to be a "protect the rookie" philosophy didn't help.

Not taking anything away from Wade, I'd much rather Wade Phillips than Frank Bush..... but we also gave Wade Jj Watt (in place of Amobi Okoye), Conor Barwin, Cushing, and Jonathan Joseph & Danieal Manning (I'm sure those were Wade's idea as well right?)...

Look, the defense stayed healthy through 2009, they had a good year. Didn't stay healthy through 2010... didn't look good. Stayed healthy (mostly) through 2011... they looked good. Football Outsiders called it (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2010/07/football-outsiders-predicts-the-texans-to-win-6-games-or-less/) before the 2010 season (6 wins, because of defensive injuries).

You're right it is speculation. This is what MB's are made for.

History should tell you BoB turned to Wade to rebuild the defense thru the draft and FA.

The question should be is there a correlation between BoB spending the $$$$ in FA to build the defense and putting a winning product on the field and will BoB be willing to spend the $$$$ in FA again?

I know this is just speculation but the MW situation will be a sign. If he lets MW walk and doesn't spend the $$$$ in FA you will know BoB has reverted to his old ways. Either that or just re-sign MW. Which I am on the fence with. Pending speculation on MW's contract demands.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 01:20 PM
I know this is just speculation but the MW situation will be a sign. If he lets MW walk and doesn't spend the $$$$ in FA you will know BoB has reverted to his old ways. Either that or just re-sign MW. Which I am on the fence with. Pending speculation on MW's contract demands.

We've been pretty active in FA since 2002 & spending the money has never been an issue. Look at all of Casserly's signings, we over paid for marginal talent. He did the same with Weaver in 2006.

Smith has been a lot better with his FA signings, with guys like Antonio Smith, Wade Smith, Joel Dressen, etc.. (Casserly did get us Walters)..... & those guys (Smith & Smith) got some serious money.

He doesn't have a good history of bringing in star FA, & the Texans have not wanted to overpay FAs just to get them to come here. I'm fine with that & I'm fine if we elect not to over-pay Mario Williams.

Bob is not cheap. Bob has never been cheap. Look at the quality of players we have on the roster now, & we spent $119M last year... Who was getting paid? Jjo (worth it) Andre (worth it) Mario (Lent)... who else was getting mad jack that was worth it?

wolf123
02-26-2012, 01:22 PM
Players Rick Smith has brought in since he's been GM.

1. Matt Schaub(Top 8 QB)
2. Arian Foster( Top 2 RB)
3. Duane Brown( Top 3 LT)
4. Brian Cushing( Top 2 MLB)
5. Connor Barwin( Top 5 OLB)
6. Johnathan Joseph( Top 3 CB)
7. Glover Quinn
8. Wade Smith
9. Daniel Manning
10. Brooks Reed
11. JJ Watt(Top 3 3-4 DE)


Not only is our roster the most talented the Texans have ever had but its one of the best rosters in the NFL. All of this has been brought in under Ricks watch. Has his missed absolutely, but the talent of the team speaks for itself.

All GM's listen to their coaches for draft input. Richard Smith was in love with Okoye, David Gibbs loved Jacksons toughness and technique.. As the final decision maker Rick Smith gets credit and blame for all picks done under his watch.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 01:32 PM
Players Rick Smith has brought in since he's been GM.

1. Matt Schaub(Top 8 QB)
2. Arian Foster( Top 2 RB)
3. Duane Brown( Top 3 LT)
4. Brian Cushing( Top 2 MLB)
5. Connor Barwin( Top 5 OLB)
6. Johnathan Joseph( Top 3 CB)
7. Glover Quinn
8. Wade Smith
9. Daniel Manning
10. Brooks Reed
11. JJ Watt(Top 3 3-4 DE)


Half of our members think we're favorites for next year's Super Bowl.

Other notable additions thanks to Rick Smith


Kevin Walter
Ben Tate
Antonio Smith
Chris Myers
Jason Allen

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 01:35 PM
Batting .600 is excellent in any league. Unless you can name a GM that bats 1.000 you're talking out of your hat. Please... show me a GM that has hit on EVERY 1st round pick he ever selected. Or just show me one that's hit on better than 3 out of 5 of his first round picks over a five year period.

This is where we disagree, I can point out 1st rd teams that have done better. I look at drafts as a whole though. 75/80% should be a GM who's doing an above avg jobs hit rate on 1st rd picks.

Packers,49ers (Hiring Harbaugh) Giants, Lions (Mayhew) Ravens, Pats,Bengals off the top of my head.

wolf123
02-26-2012, 01:36 PM
Half of our members think we're favorites for next year's Super Bowl.

Other notable additions thanks to Rick Smith


Kevin Walter
Ben Tate
Antonio Smith
Chris Myers
Jason Allen


I think Kevin Walter was picked up the before Rick Smith, but the Chris Myers trade was one of the best ones we've ever made.

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 01:41 PM
We've been pretty active in FA since 2002 & spending the money has never been an issue. Look at all of Casserly's signings, we over paid for marginal talent. He did the same with Weaver in 2006.

Smith has been a lot better with his FA signings, with guys like Antonio Smith, Wade Smith, Joel Dressen, etc.. (Casserly did get us Walters)..... & those guys (Smith & Smith) got some serious money.

He doesn't have a good history of bringing in star FA, & the Texans have not wanted to overpay FAs just to get them to come here. I'm fine with that & I'm fine if we elect not to over-pay Mario Williams.

Bob is not cheap. Bob has never been cheap. Look at the quality of players we have on the roster now, & we spent $119M last year... Who was getting paid? Jjo (worth it) Andre (worth it) Mario (Lent)... who else was getting mad jack that was worth it?

When BoB finally decided to spend on top tier FA's the Texans made the playoffs Coincedence? Will he do the same next yr? MW? If you're not adding talent you're moving backwards.

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 01:46 PM
Players Rick Smith has brought in since he's been GM.

1. Matt Schaub(Top 8 QB)
2. Arian Foster( Top 2 RB)
3. Duane Brown( Top 3 LT)
4. Brian Cushing( Top 2 MLB)
5. Connor Barwin( Top 5 OLB)
6. Johnathan Joseph( Top 3 CB)
7. Glover Quinn
8. Wade Smith
9. Daniel Manning
10. Brooks Reed
11. JJ Watt(Top 3 3-4 DE)


Not only is our roster the most talented the Texans have ever had but its one of the best rosters in the NFL. All of this has been brought in under Ricks watch. Has his missed absolutely, but the talent of the team speaks for itself.

All GM's listen to their coaches for draft input. Richard Smith was in love with Okoye, David Gibbs loved Jacksons toughness and technique.. As the final decision maker Rick Smith gets credit and blame for all picks done under his watch.

Agreed

The BPA quote from Smith was wrong. He should've said we take BPA at position of need. That would've been an accurate statement. Smith should've known CB's as well as Gibbs. He played CB in college.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 02:13 PM
When BoB finally decided to spend on top tier FA's the Texans made the playoffs Coincedence? Will he do the same next yr? MW? If you're not adding talent you're moving backwards.

Go look at how much Antonio Smith is making.... not much different than what Jjo is bringing in. Look at how much we spent on Anthony Weaver, Wade Smith, Sage Rosenfelds, Orlavsky...... & that's just recent memory.

Go back & see what Robaire Smith was being paid, Morlon Greenwood, & half the OL.

We went after Orlando Pace, Leigh Boden & a few other "names" they decided not to come here, I believe both went for less money than we offered.

Money has never been the issue.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 02:17 PM
Agreed

The BPA quote from Smith was wrong. He should've said we take BPA at position of need. That would've been an accurate statement. Smith should've known CB's as well as Gibbs. He played CB in college.

That's kinda what he did say.

(on not drafting for need but making his first five draft picks defensive players last year) “Yeah, but again, when you hit the homerun, and I guess I would consider J.J. (Watt) to be a homerun, where you hit the homerun is as you stack your board and assess value. If you can pick a player at the corresponding spot that is a position of need, that’s a homerun. So you don’t go into the Draft saying ‘I’ve got to get this. I’ve got to get that,’ because, in my opinion, if you do that, you are inclined to reach and take a player that doesn’t meet the value. It’s not that you don’t select players in positions that you need. The key is that they have the corresponding value at the point where you are picking and if you do that, and you can hit a player at a position of need at the value spot, then you are good.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Rick-Smith-at-Combine/93224fca-a8a8-4b57-975e-c6ad081ec479

Mr teX
02-26-2012, 02:53 PM
Rick is the gm.

Going 3 for 5 on 1st rd picks= Fail

Letting Bush talk you into picking KJ when you played CB in college and you are the GM should be a firable offense.Does Rick spend time watching tape like Jerry Reese does? Or does Rick spend most of his time smoozing with BoB and the competition committee like Casserly spent with his NFL office buddies? Again what were Ricks qualifications to be on the committee again? Wasn't he a 2nd yr GM when he was appointed? Yeah he had really earned that prestigious position.

Rick is a teflon man. He says the right things and nothing ever sticks to him. But he's not very good at his job as GM. Which should be aquiring the best talent possible for the Texans. Just let Wade/Gary do his job and be done with it. But dont sit there and tell me your taking the BPA. When you're actually taking whoever Wade/Gary are telling you to take. (It's offensive) Look, Rick you've got a good place in life, dont over play your hand.

I hated working for bosses like Rick, all style no substance.

KJ wasn't BPA if you include the offensive and defensive side of the ball.

You and Dale...you guys just don't quit.

3-5 is isn't bad mainly b/c of the crapshoot that is the NFL draft. Sure, Okoye was a bust but the guy was the consensus best DT in the draft rumored to go in the top 5 at 1 point. As i've said in other threads, you can't fault the texans for picking him.

And as far as KJ, he's close to being a bust, but what cb would you have rather them have picked if not him when you consider the variables surrounding the upcoming season...Devin McCourty..... he was burnt toast for the patriots this year. Knowing how the patriots do business, i expect this dude to be released in TC next year...Kyle Wilson....burnt toast for the jets this year Victor Cruz ate him for lunch repeatedly. Further, Rex Ryan apparently didn't think enough of this dude to let Cromartie walk this year in FA.

Its all good to look at things in hindsight, but the reality of all of this is that noone knows how any of these guys are going to turn out until they take the field.

ObsiWan
02-26-2012, 03:14 PM
Agreed

The BPA quote from Smith was wrong. He should've said we take BPA at position of need. That would've been an accurate statement. Smith should've known CB's as well as Gibbs. He played CB in college.

Exactly.

I disagree with the second statement that Smith should know CBs as well as the coaches. Rick Smith isn't installing any defensive schemes or calling whether we go zone or man. That's the defensive coaching staff's job. And they should have more say in who they want the GM to pick because they know what they're trying to accomplish and whether said player can get that job done. I think that it is the GM's job is to take the coaching staff's "shopping list" and go get the guys they say that they want. Just like las year when Smith took Wade's shopping list and got the guys Wade wanted.

DocBar
02-26-2012, 03:18 PM
You're right it is speculation. This is what MB's are made for.

History should tell you BoB turned to Wade to rebuild the defense thru the draft and FA.

The question should be is there a correlation between BoB spending the $$$$ in FA to build the defense and putting a winning product on the field and will BoB be willing to spend the $$$$ in FA again?

I know this is just speculation but the MW situation will be a sign. If he lets MW walk and doesn't spend the $$$$ in FA you will know BoB has reverted to his old ways. Either that or just re-sign MW. Which I am on the fence with. Pending speculation on MW's contract demands.Are you really still trying to say McNair is cheap? The Texans have been one of the higher spending franchises for several years. Just because the team doesn't go all willy-nilly Dan Snyder every offseason doesn't indicate that the owner is cheap. It indicates that a: they thought a player was asking for too much for his talent level and/or b: the player didn't really want to come to a bad team. Teams can't just go throwing money around since the advent of the cap. The cap can be manipulated, but to a finite degree. Look at the teams with the most money to spend. Most of them are cellar dwellers. BTW, don't you find it a bit odd that the Texans have rework contracts just to look at signing their own FA's and draft picks, yet posters like you always complain about McNair being cheap? Go to McDonalds and get a Happy Meal, man.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 05:33 PM
And as far as KJ, he's close to being a bust, but what cb would you have rather them have picked if not him when you consider the variables surrounding the upcoming season...Devin McCourty..... he was burnt toast for the patriots this year. Knowing how the patriots do business, i expect this dude to be released in TC next year...Kyle Wilson....burnt toast for the jets this year Victor Cruz ate him for lunch repeatedly. Further, Rex Ryan apparently didn't think enough of this dude to let Cromartie walk this year in FA.

Its all good to look at things in hindsight, but the reality of all of this is that noone knows how any of these guys are going to turn out until they take the field.

I agree to a point. They had Kj rated that high (obviously) & we had a need for corner back. But, did they have Kj rated higher than Demarius Thomas, or Dez Bryant?

Remember, this is the same offseason we gave Jj a $10M contract. If nothing else changed, we would have started with Glover Quin on one side, & McCain, Molden, and/or McMannis at corner..... then pick up Jason Allen midway through the season; how much worse could it have been?

& we'd have a #2 WR.

I like Kj, but realistically speaking (& with the clarity of hindsight) I'd be just as fine with Jason Allen taking all those snaps & Dez Bryant under Aj's wing.

Again, I have no idea how the Texans rated Kj vs those players... & Kj may turn out to be a starter yet..... but to help steelb with his point....

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 05:46 PM
Exactly.

I disagree with the second statement that Smith should know CBs as well as the coaches. Rick Smith isn't installing any defensive schemes or calling whether we go zone or man. That's the defensive coaching staff's job. And they should have more say in who they want the GM to pick because they know what they're trying to accomplish and whether said player can get that job done. I think that it is the GM's job is to take the coaching staff's "shopping list" and go get the guys they say that they want. Just like las year when Smith took Wade's shopping list and got the guys Wade wanted.

I don't believe this "shopping list" thing. I doubt Wade Phillips knew who JjWatt, Brooks Reed, or Brandon Harris were. The man has a full time job, he can't actively scout a thousand NCAA teams. Wade describes a player, Rick Smith & his Scouts put together the big board. Wade helps them rate the positions & the importance to his scheme.

I seriously doubt Wade said, "I want Aldon Smith, JjWatt, or Brooks Reed."

Heck, when Gibbs wanted Brown, Rick Smith was willing to gamble that he would be there if we traded down again. Yes, Gibbs hand selected Brown, but I'm sure it was after Rick Smith gave him a list to chose from.

Right now, Wade & Gary & Dennison & all the coaches are going through the files & film that Rick Smith & the Scouts have put together for them.

DocBar
02-26-2012, 05:59 PM
I don't believe this "shopping list" thing. I doubt Wade Phillips knew who JjWatt, Brooks Reed, or Brandon Harris were. The man has a full time job, he can't actively scout a thousand NCAA teams. Wade describes a player, Rick Smith & his Scouts put together the big board. Wade helps them rate the positions & the importance to his scheme.

I seriously doubt Wade said, "I want Aldon Smith, JjWatt, or Brooks Reed."

Heck, when Gibbs wanted Brown, Rick Smith was willing to gamble that he would be there if we traded down again. Yes, Gibbs hand selected Brown, but I'm sure it was after Rick Smith gave him a list to chose from.

Right now, Wade & Gary & Dennison & all the coaches are going through the files & film that Rick Smith & the Scouts have put together for them.

It seems like you're over simplifying this. I would be utterly shocked if Phillips had no idea who the defensive draft picks were. He doesn't have to actively scout thousands of players, as he has a scouting dept. at his disposal to do that. I'm sure they bring him a list of top 10's or so for each position and he does an in-depth analysis on them and comes up with his own ranking for players. He's going to know exactly who the team drafts for his defense. If not, that's a sign of an utterly disfunctional front office and the team ends up looking like Detroit (from a few years ago) or Cleveland.

dalemurphy
02-26-2012, 06:36 PM
You and Dale...you guys just don't quit.

.

Hopefully, you are simply saying the Steelbtexan and I are both very annoying... otherwise, I'll have to disagree. I love Rick Smith! I think he is one of the best GMs in the NFL. I think his drafts, with the exception of 2007 have been very good. As a matter of a fact, I've been arguing for a year that the 2009 draft/off-season will go down as one of the all-time greatest!

Predictions for 2009 Draft From August of 2011 (http://www.texansbullblog.com/prediction-2009-texans-draft/news/)

BullBlitz
02-26-2012, 08:10 PM
Hopefully, you are simply saying the Steelbtexan and I are both very annoying... otherwise, I'll have to disagree. I love Rick Smith! I think he is one of the best GMs in the NFL. I think his drafts, with the exception of 2007 have been very good. As a matter of a fact, I've been arguing for a year that the 2009 draft/off-season will go down as one of the all-time greatest!

Predictions for 2009 Draft From August of 2011 (http://www.texansbullblog.com/prediction-2009-texans-draft/news/)

Thanks Rick.

Lucky
02-26-2012, 08:14 PM
I don't believe this "shopping list" thing. I doubt Wade Phillips knew who JjWatt, Brooks Reed, or Brandon Harris were. The man has a full time job, he can't actively scout a thousand NCAA teams. Wade describes a player, Rick Smith & his Scouts put together the big board. Wade helps them rate the positions & the importance to his scheme.

I seriously doubt Wade said, "I want Aldon Smith, JjWatt, or Brooks Reed."
From Profootballtalk, 5/23/11 (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/23/gary-kubiak-i-think-weve-got-a-damn-good-football-team/):

Kubiak said that previous coordinators cut their list of potential defensive draft picks to roughly 50-60 prospects. Phillips got the list to 15-20, and the Texans drafted five of them.


“It was locked in before we went to draft day,” Kubiak said. “He knew exactly what he wanted.”

Still doubting?

Maddict5
02-26-2012, 08:28 PM
This is where we disagree, I can point out 1st rd teams that have done better. I look at drafts as a whole though. 75/80% should be a GM who's doing an above avg jobs hit rate on 1st rd picks.

Packers,49ers (Hiring Harbaugh) Giants, Lions (Mayhew) Ravens, Pats,Bengals off the top of my head.

please....:rolleyes:

first of you name only 7 teams so the texans even in your negative eyes are in the top 25%. secondly id bet at least half those teams dont meet the 75/80% limit you say. if you actually look at the drafts, the texans have been one of, if not the, best drafting teams since 06. thats the reason many say they have prob got the most talented overall roster and why we didnt fall apart despite all the injuries last yr

off the top of my head i can name the following busts from each of the team listed:

Packers: hawk, harrell, plus sherrod pick from last yr isnt looking too promising. to overcome that and reach your target theyd need to have 6-8 other hit picks

pats: ben watson, maroney, mccourty, merriweather

ravens: boller, mark clayton

Mr teX
02-26-2012, 08:29 PM
I agree to a point. They had Kj rated that high (obviously) & we had a need for corner back. But, did they have Kj rated higher than Demarius Thomas, or Dez Bryant?

Remember, this is the same offseason we gave Jj a $10M contract. If nothing else changed, we would have started with Glover Quin on one side, & McCain, Molden, and/or McMannis at corner..... then pick up Jason Allen midway through the season; how much worse could it have been?

& we'd have a #2 WR.

I like Kj, but realistically speaking (& with the clarity of hindsight) I'd be just as fine with Jason Allen taking all those snaps & Dez Bryant under Aj's wing.

Again, I have no idea how the Texans rated Kj vs those players... & Kj may turn out to be a starter yet..... but to help steelb with his point....

Dez Bryant is the only guy that you could've plausibly said was rated higher than KJ at that point...i'll even go on record & say that he probably was on most teams' boards. But you have to deal with what was known at that particular point in time & what was known then was:

we'd just lost our "top" cb in FA & had nothing back there.

KJ was going in the 1st round & there was no other cb thought to be going in the 1st besides Wilson & McCourty..(not much better options from what we know now).

1st rounders are expected to start from day 1.

Bryant had "knucklehead" written all over him....still does up to this point in his career.

Allen hadn't been released yet, thereby not available for us to pick up.

Frank Bush was still our DC.

So you have to figure why would the texans take a flyer on a guy with questionable character & forgo possibly solidifying their secondary?....the assumption here is that KJ could become a shutdown cb from Nick Sabans' "pro ready" coaching. Meanwhile the texans in 2009 had seemingly no issues slinging the ball all over the place.

.as absurd as this sounds now, this was the situation the texans FO were faced with. We'd already been burned once..passing on Revis in 2007 for Okoye.

So yeah, now that we look back on it, it wouldn't have been much worse having Allen take all of KJ snaps, but the reality of it is the draft is funny like that.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 08:30 PM
From Profootballtalk, 5/23/11 (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/23/gary-kubiak-i-think-weve-got-a-damn-good-football-team/):


Still doubting?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what everyone is saying. It sounds to me, like we are saying Rick Smith simply chose the guys Wade Phillips told him to take. "Rick, take Jj Watt right here.", "Ooh.. I really like Brandon Harris, but can't pass up on that kid from Arizona." "OMG, Harris is still there, pull the trigger Rick, pull the trigger."



What you quoted sounds more like what I said. Rick Smith gave Wade a list. Wade whittle the list down. Rick Smith handled the draft.

Lucky
02-26-2012, 08:38 PM
What you quoted sounds more like what I said. Rick Smith gave Wade a list. Wade whittle the list down. Rick Smith handled the draft.
It sounds nothing like you said. Or what Kubiak said. You said:

I don't believe this "shopping list" thing. I doubt Wade Phillips knew who JjWatt, Brooks Reed, or Brandon Harris were.

Kubiak said:

“It was locked in before we went to draft day,” Kubiak said. “He knew exactly what he wanted.”

How could that be more clear? Wade Phillips told Rick Smith whom to draft. Smith orchestrated the draft trades, yes. But it was Wade Phillips call on whom to take.

ChampionTexan
02-26-2012, 08:40 PM
It sounds nothing like you said. Or what Kubiak said. You said:



Kubiak said:


How could that be more clear? Wade Phillips told Rick Smith whom to draft. Smith orchestrated the draft trades, yes. But it was Wade Phillips call on whom to take.

Clearly Wade put a list together that included the names of at least three people he didn't even know (hence my theory that he must be a witch).

Texan_Bill
02-26-2012, 08:41 PM
This team sucks!! Kubiak sucks!! Rick Smith sucks!! Wade sucks!!!!

That is all,



I have nothing else to add... :D


:turtle:

bckey
02-26-2012, 08:52 PM
From Profootballtalk, 5/23/11 (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/23/gary-kubiak-i-think-weve-got-a-damn-good-football-team/):

Kubiak said that previous coordinators cut their list of potential defensive draft picks to roughly 50-60 prospects. Phillips got the list to 15-20, and the Texans drafted five of them.


“It was locked in before we went to draft day,” Kubiak said. “He knew exactly what he wanted.”


Still doubting?


That is awesome. I really hope they let him do the same thing this year.

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 08:55 PM
That is awesome. I really hope they let him do the same thing this year.

And let Gary do the offense.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 09:01 PM
It sounds nothing like you said. Or what Kubiak said. You said:



Kubiak said:


How could that be more clear? Wade Phillips told Rick Smith whom to draft. Smith orchestrated the draft trades, yes. But it was Wade Phillips call on whom to take.

Look, this is what I was refering to
Just let Wade/Gary do his job and be done with it. But dont sit there and tell me you're taking the BPA. When you're actually taking whoever Wade/Gary are telling you to take. (It's offensive) Look, Rick you've got a good place in life, dont over play your hand.


To you, what does it sound like steelbtexan thinks Wade's role is in the draft? Or what he thinks Rick Smith's role is?

To me, it sounds like he believes Wade dictates Rick's actions. That Rick just sits there & follows orders.

Kubiak's quote to me says The Scouts do their job, Wade has his input & Rick Smith goes about doing the draft the way he had when Richard Smith was the DC, when Frank Bush was the DC & how he'll do it after Wade Phillips was gone.

Wade whittled the list down more than the other DCs did, but it was Rick Smith who told Wade Phillips who Jj Watt was, not the other way around.

thunderkyss
02-26-2012, 09:05 PM
From Profootballtalk, 5/23/11 (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/23/gary-kubiak-i-think-weve-got-a-damn-good-football-team/):
Kubiak said that previous coordinators cut their list of potential defensive draft picks to roughly 50-60 prospects. Phillips got the list to 15-20, and the Texans drafted five of them.

Still doubting?

Wade had no more influence than any of our other DCs..... Rick Smith & the Scouts found a bunch of players that fit what the Texans are going after. Wade whittled it down..... Rick had the final say.

pirbroke
02-26-2012, 09:32 PM
I remember when they traded back for Duane Brown, it was Ricks call to trade back and he was wanting to trade back some more but Kubes said enough, lets not take a chance and go ahead and draft him. That might not be exact words but I remember the video. Coaches have final say of draft board order, and Rick works the draft to a point but can be over ruled at times on stragedy.

Lucky
02-26-2012, 09:32 PM
And let Gary do the offense.
And after Wade Phillips made the first 5 picks of the Texans 2011 draft, Gary Kubiak selected TJ Yates. A great pick, even if he never does anything else in the NFL.

It works out when you have guys on both sides of the ball that know what they want.

Lucky
02-26-2012, 09:33 PM
I remember when they traded back for Duane Brown, it was Ricks call to trade back and he was wanting to trade back some more but Kubes said enough, lets not take a chance and go ahead and draft him.
Gary was right, as the Chargers were poised to select Brown with the next pick.

DX-TEX
02-26-2012, 10:29 PM
this team sucks!! Kubiak sucks!! Rick smith sucks!! Wade sucks!!!!

That is all,



i have nothing else to add... :d


:turtle:

6-10

bckey
02-26-2012, 10:37 PM
It sounds nothing like you said. Or what Kubiak said. You said:



Kubiak said:


How could that be more clear? Wade Phillips told Rick Smith whom to draft. Smith orchestrated the draft trades, yes. But it was Wade Phillips call on whom to take.

I agree. And by getting his list down to 15 to 20 instead of the 50 to 60 like his predecessors it takes all the guess work out for Rick Smith. I also bet that list was broken down by position and order of preference. Wade clearly knows defense and how to evaluate what players will best fit his defense.

steelbtexan
02-26-2012, 10:47 PM
And after Wade Phillips made the first 5 picks of the Texans 2011 draft, Gary Kubiak selected TJ Yates. A great pick, even if he never does anything else in the NFL.

It works out when you have guys on both sides of the ball that know what they want.

This is what I'm saying. It probably was that way with Richard Smith and Bush too. But they didn't whittle the list down like Wade did/hopefully does.

When it came time to pick Wade picked the guy off his list and told Rick to select him. The Harris trade was done because he was high on Wades list but fell. Wade probably (Speculation) said lets try to trade up and get Harris and provide KJ/Allen some competition. So Rick made the trade.

Yes, if Rick provides lists to both Gary and Wade and they pick off those lists the Texans will be in great shape. It's a great time to be a Texan fan. With both Wade/Gary knowing what they are looking for on both sides of the ball respectively.

Hopefully Rick will just sit back and let Gary/Wade make their picks. If there's a disagreement on who gets the pick Wade or Gary then Rick should be the tiebreaker.

I believe last yr BoB told Wade if there's a pick on the board that you like then that's who Rick will be taking. This yr I've got a feeling the offense/Gary will get carte blanc.

Mr teX
02-26-2012, 11:01 PM
This is what I'm saying. It probably was that way with Richard Smith and Bush too. But they didn't whittle the list down like Wade did/hopefully does.

When it came time to pick Wade picked the guy off his list and told Rick to select him. The Harris trade was done because he was high on Wades list but fell. Wade probably (Speculation) said lets try to trade up and get Harris and provide KJ/Allen some competition. So Rick made the trade.

Yes, if Rick provides lists to both Gary and Wade and they pick off those lists the Texans will be in great shape. It's a great time to be a Texan fan. With both Wade/Gary knowing what they are looking for on both sides of the ball respectively.

Hopefully Rick will just sit back and let Gary/Wade make their picks. If there's a disagreement on who gets the pick Wade or Gary then Rick should be the tiebreaker.

I believe last yr BoB told Wade if there's a pick on the board that you like then that's who Rick will be taking. This yr I've got a feeling the offense/Gary will get carte blanc.


smith & bush probably did whittle their lists down as well....they just didn't know what the hell they were doing considering neither had been a dc before.

ObsiWan
02-27-2012, 04:10 AM
It sounds nothing like you said. Or what Kubiak said. You said:

Kubiak said:

How could that be more clear? Wade Phillips told Rick Smith whom to draft. Smith orchestrated the draft trades, yes. But it was Wade Phillips call on whom to take.

From the Rick Smith presser prior to the 2011 draft (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-Texans-GM-Rick-Smith-press-conference/58cae421-7621-4cc4-9eb3-9a0fcb2d15cd)....

(On the team's mock draft and overall preparation processes leading up to draft day) “We met, gosh, I guess the first week of this month with the offensive staff and tweaked the board. We set our board in February with our scouts before the Combine, and then it’s just a matter of fine-tuning and we add the coaches’ input later in the process after the Combine. So the first time we get together as a group that way is in the beginning of the month. We did that at the beginning of this month and spent a week with the offense, spent a week with the defense, and last week spent another week with the coordinators and the individual position coaches coming back down and really drilling into the position groups and making sure that we had them ranked in order the way that we liked them, both from a scouting perspective and a coaching perspective. Then we spend this week just kind of mocking and trying to anticipate what people are doing and what teams are doing and trying to get a feel. That’s what I do this week. This week, for me, is just all anticipation and trying to get prepared for the various different scenarios that might present themselves to us, whether you’re talking about a move back and acquiring more picks or moving up, or you’re talking about which guy you really like. So all of those discussions are happening and mocks are happening now for us. We’re about ready now. It’s getting close.”

(On what it's been like working with defensive coordinator Wade Phillips in preparing for the draft and Phillips’ level of input) “It’s been good to have him in there. Obviously, he knows better than anybody what he wants. It’s like the guy who is scratching the back of his head and his buddy says, ‘Why are you scratching the back of your head for so long?’ And he says, ‘I’m scratching my head because I’m the only one who knows where it itches.’ That’s just what it is. He has been good about it and explaining to us what he’s looking for. He knows what he’s looking for. And like you said, everybody does have a voice. What we do is, there is an enormous amount of information that we get on all of these players, and my way of looking at this thing is you have to have a system, a process in place that takes all of this information and guides you to a decision. So his voice has been big in this whole process in terms of trying to help guide us to what types of players we’re looking for from a defensive perspective, and it will continue to be as we narrow this thing down and grab those cards off the boards and try to make those final decisions just like everybody else in the room. Everybody has a weighted opinion, they get weighted, and by the nature of his position, his has a bit more weight. The fact that he knows what he’s doing, that’s a little more weight. He’s going to have an influence. He’s been a welcomed addition and a big part of the process in terms of what we’re doing and how we value these guys.”

Now this doesn't say Wade named names but when he described the type of player he's looking for at the position he wanted to address, the scouts came up with a list of guys who fit the bill. They ranked them and then built mock drafts to assess what the likelihood of those guys being available when we got to pick.

Sounds like a shopping list to me.

ObsiWan
02-27-2012, 04:20 AM
Wade had no more influence than any of our other DCs..... Rick Smith & the Scouts found a bunch of players that fit what the Texans are going after. Wade whittled it down..... Rick had the final say.

I can't believe the GM has final say over who gets picked instead of the coordinator who has to fit that guy into his system. Rick Smith sets no defenses (or offenses for that matter). He calls no plays. Why would his say-so carry more weight than the guy responsible for generating the defense or offense scheme??

Not only did Wade take Rick's list and whittle it down. My money says he - with his assistants - also ranked the guys on Rick's list. The only scenario I can see Rick having the final say is if Wade/Gary and the assistants have two guys ranked evenly. Then - maybe - Rick makes the call.

Rey
02-27-2012, 09:30 AM
From the Rick Smith presser prior to the 2011 draft (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-Texans-GM-Rick-Smith-press-conference/58cae421-7621-4cc4-9eb3-9a0fcb2d15cd)....


Now this doesn't say Wade named names but when he described the type of player he's looking for at the position he wanted to address, the scouts came up with a list of guys who fit the bill. They ranked them and then built mock drafts to assess what the likelihood of those guys being available when we got to pick.

Sounds like a shopping list to me.

I don't understand this either or proposition...(just quoting you, not saying you are guilty of this)

I seriously doubt that Wade is watching all the tape and giving Rick a list of guys and Rick is just picking the top guy available from the list.

My thoughts are that it is a fluid process. They all bounce ideas off of eachother.

welsh texan
02-27-2012, 11:32 AM
I can't believe the GM has final say over who gets picked instead of the coordinator who has to fit that guy into his system. Rick Smith sets no defenses (or offenses for that matter). He calls no plays. Why would his say-so carry more weight than the guy responsible for generating the defense or offense scheme??

Not only did Wade take Rick's list and whittle it down. My money says he - with his assistants - also ranked the guys on Rick's list. The only scenario I can see Rick having the final say is if Wade/Gary and the assistants have two guys ranked evenly. Then - maybe - Rick makes the call.

I think that Rick Smith probably does have final say, and from what I've seen of the way we've operated over the Smithiak era, I can only imagine that it works because there is a level of professionalism at play on the part of those in the room.

No matter what I've thought of Smithiak down the years, I've never had any doubt that they work together extremely well.

I can't imagine it would work very well if you carte blanche gave the co-ordinators the job of picking the draft and only stepped in if they disagreed. That sounds like a recipe for disaster, and also I'd imagine that on a couple of picks I can think of that has probably been the case.

Rick Smith has a really tough couple of years coming up, not only does he need to transition from a building mode to a maintaining mode, he needs to re-up a lot of star players from rookie deals, play free agency at a point where you can no longer expect JAG's to come in and be an improvement, offload some guys who's contracts are no longer justified.

If he gets through that period with a playoff caliber team intact, he's going to have moved from a bit of a laughing stock amongst the fans who was forever 'on the right track' to an extremely respected and celebrated member of the Texans' organisation.

Lets hope the guy can make a legend of himself eh?

DocBar
02-27-2012, 12:21 PM
I think that Rick Smith probably does have final say, and from what I've seen of the way we've operated over the Smithiak era, I can only imagine that it works because there is a level of professionalism at play on the part of those in the room.

No matter what I've thought of Smithiak down the years, I've never had any doubt that they work together extremely well.

I can't imagine it would work very well if you carte blanche gave the co-ordinators the job of picking the draft and only stepped in if they disagreed. That sounds like a recipe for disaster, and also I'd imagine that on a couple of picks I can think of that has probably been the case.

Rick Smith has a really tough couple of years coming up, not only does he need to transition from a building mode to a maintaining mode, he needs to re-up a lot of star players from rookie deals, play free agency at a point where you can no longer expect JAG's to come in and be an improvement, offload some guys who's contracts are no longer justified.

If he gets through that period with a playoff caliber team intact, he's going to have moved from a bit of a laughing stock amongst the fans who was forever 'on the right track' to an extremely respected and celebrated member of the Texans' organisation.

Lets hope the guy can make a legend of himself eh?Like most of the things we cuss and dicuss on these forums, the decision of who decided on what pick is probably not nearly as cut and dried as we sometimes think. I would think the coordinators have a huge say, but the GM has the final say. He's the one that gets canned for bad drafts, afterall. He will also be the one who makes the call whether it's an offensive or defensive pick, based on valuation of available players and team needs.
That's why having the HC and GM on the same page is so important. If they have very different views on needs and a players value, you end up with a bad team full of players a coach doesn't want. If it were just up to the coordinators to pick who they want, all you would need is a HC to say offense or defense and a good attorney to work out the contracts and cap hits.
IMO, Smith's hardest decisions are going to be which stars to keep and which to let walk. There's no way we can keep them all.

drs23
02-27-2012, 12:37 PM
This team sucks!! Kubiak sucks!! Rick Smith sucks!! Wade sucks!!!!

That is all,



I have nothing else to add... :D


:turtle:

Uh, hmmm, TB, you left out the well known fact that BoB is CHEEP. :kitten:

drs23
02-27-2012, 12:45 PM
Look, this is what I was refering to


To you, what does it sound like steelbtexan thinks Wade's role is in the draft? Or what he thinks Rick Smith's role is?

To me, it sounds like he believes Wade dictates Rick's actions. That Rick just sits there & follows orders.

Kubiak's quote to me says The Scouts do their job, Wade has his input & Rick Smith goes about doing the draft the way he had when Richard Smith was the DC, when Frank Bush was the DC & how he'll do it after Wade Phillips was gone.

Wade whittled the list down more than the other DCs did, but it was Rick Smith who told Wade Phillips who Jj Watt was, not the other way around.

TK, I can't bite on that at all. Do you in all honesty believe Wade didn't know who JJ Watt was? I don't believe that for a minute. Wade was also quoted/overheard saying or something along those lines that Aldon Smith was actually his first choice but SF snagged him at the 7th spot. Not a bad consolation prize in my book but I don't believe for a split second that Wade didn't know the players he wanted on his grocery list from the time he stepped aboard with the Texans.

It's not even really speculation at this point as Gary and Rick have said as much. Not JMO. Fact.

ObsiWan
02-27-2012, 01:17 PM
I don't understand this either or proposition...(just quoting you, not saying you are guilty of this)

I seriously doubt that Wade is watching all the tape and giving Rick a list of guys and Rick is just picking the top guy available from the list.

My thoughts are that it is a fluid process. They all bounce ideas off of each other.

This is probably the only absolutely correct statement in this whole thread. In fact, Smith almost says as much...
Everybody has a weighted opinion, they get weighted, and by the nature of his position, his has a bit more weight. The fact that he [Wade Phillips] knows what he’s doing, that’s a little more weight. He’s going to have an influence.

I think it works this way:

1. Wade/Gary, being responsible for designing/implementing the defensive/offensive schemes, know what type of player, in their mind, fits said scheme.
2. They relay this "player type" info to the GM and Scouting Dept.
3. GM/Scouting Dept. scours the college ranks and comes up with a list of guys who "fit the bill". This is done pre-combine and refined/tweaked post-combine.
4. GM/Scouting Dept. AND the defensive/offensive coordinators and position coaches review the list together. Smith said they spend a week on each side of the ball and then one final week with everyone in the room. Re-reading the Smith quote I posted, looks like the do this second assessment starting the first week in April. That tells me it's after F/A moves have been made so their draft board changes depending on who we had to let go and who we were able to snag/keep.
5. Smith creates the "shopping list" from this last set of coaches/GM/Scouts meetings. Again, Wade/Gary may or may not actually name/names (i.e., make out the list themselves) but I bet $100 they screen this list looking for guys they know of and like to make sure they're included.
6. From here Smith assesses what other teams may do and makes up his mock. This tells him whether we can stand pat at our slot or if he has to trade up or if has the flexibility to trade back and get extra picks.

As for who actually makes the call on which guy to select, it's probably Rick Smith (I'll have to concede and rep TK for being technically correct :D ). But as Smith said, he's picking from their "board" (which, to me, is another way of saying the "shopping list" signed off on by the coaching staff)

did I miss anything?

GP
02-27-2012, 01:26 PM
General Managers....m-a-n-a-g-e. They manage.

Texans have guys in the FO who calculate contracts, how to structure them and what it counts against the cap, and how all of that factors into a longer term for upcoming seasons and expectations of new deals and how it all factors into the equation of things. Rick manages those guys. It's his job to make sure they are doing what they should do, that they're following the strategies and such that Bob and his guys have set forth for the team's direction.

The Texans have scouts. Some scout the college guys, some scout the current NFL players and help with free agency each season, to help determine which guys to target etc. Rick manages those guys. He makes sure, again, that they are doing well and have resources at their disposal. He manages them.

The Texans have coaches on offense, defense, and special teams. Rick manages them. Kubiak needs something from a scout or Wade wants a report built on something? They contact Rick and Rick gets his guys on the project.

The Texans have a P.R. department and/or Marketing Department. Rick manages those heads of that department.

Rick Smith is a General Manager. Underneath Bob McNair is Rick Smith. Rick Smith is, for all practical purposes, the COO (Chief Operations Officer) who manages the heads of other departments. He's closest to McNair. You want to see Don Corleone? Go through Tom Hagen first. And once an owner doesn't think his consigliere has the stuff anymore, he's out. Because the owner needs his GM to transfer the owner's direction/vision to the rest of the organization.

To this end, Rick is not ultimately making certain decisions for Kubiak or Wade or whomever. I'm sure he has input, no doubt, but if Kubiak says "We're done trading back, let's draft Duane Brown NOW." then Rick is going to take his finger off the button and get Kubiak's guy for him. Wade Phillips had a wish list of what type of guys he wanted, it was drafted and constructed...and on draft day Wade his choices of what was there at our pick. Wade wanted Aldon Smith but got JJ Watt whom I think is the next phenom of the NFL.

I think Rick Smith has done a great job. Damn sight better than Casserly ever did. Right?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on what I said in this post. As I pour over all the posts, and look at the history of this discussion, weighing it against the quotes I've seen from Rick, Bob, and Gary over the past few years, it seems like people think Rick Smith is pulling all these levers and hitting all these switches behind the scenes. He's managing managers. He's coordinating it all, making sure everything runs in harmony with one another. He's Bob's consigliere, for lack of a better description.

drs23
02-27-2012, 02:10 PM
General Managers....m-a-n-a-g-e. They manage.

Texans have guys in the FO who calculate contracts, how to structure them and what it counts against the cap, and how all of that factors into a longer term for upcoming seasons and expectations of new deals and how it all factors into the equation of things. Rick manages those guys. It's his job to make sure they are doing what they should do, that they're following the strategies and such that Bob and his guys have set forth for the team's direction.

The Texans have scouts. Some scout the college guys, some scout the current NFL players and help with free agency each season, to help determine which guys to target etc. Rick manages those guys. He makes sure, again, that they are doing well and have resources at their disposal. He manages them.

The Texans have coaches on offense, defense, and special teams. Rick manages them. Kubiak needs something from a scout or Wade wants a report built on something? They contact Rick and Rick gets his guys on the project.

The Texans have a P.R. department and/or Marketing Department. Rick manages those heads of that department.

Rick Smith is a General Manager. Underneath Bob McNair is Rick Smith. Rick Smith is, for all practical purposes, the COO (Chief Operations Officer) who manages the heads of other departments. He's closest to McNair. You want to see Don Corleone? Go through Tom Hagen first. And once an owner doesn't think his consigliere has the stuff anymore, he's out. Because the owner needs his GM to transfer the owner's direction/vision to the rest of the organization.

To this end, Rick is not ultimately making certain decisions for Kubiak or Wade or whomever. I'm sure he has input, no doubt, but if Kubiak says "We're done trading back, let's draft Duane Brown NOW." then Rick is going to take his finger off the button and get Kubiak's guy for him. Wade Phillips had a wish list of what type of guys he wanted, it was drafted and constructed...and on draft day Wade his choices of what was there at our pick. Wade wanted Aldon Smith but got JJ Watt whom I think is the next phenom of the NFL.

I think Rick Smith has done a great job. Damn sight better than Casserly ever did. Right?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on what I said in this post. As I pour over all the posts, and look at the history of this discussion, weighing it against the quotes I've seen from Rick, Bob, and Gary over the past few years, it seems like people think Rick Smith is pulling all these levers and hitting all these switches behind the scenes. He's managing managers. He's coordinating it all, making sure everything runs in harmony with one another. He's Bob's consigliere, for lack of a better description.

GP, I think that's an excellent representation of how everything more than likely goes down.

I've never though about it in that much depth and detail but damn, Rick Smith sure has a lot on his plate.

Anyone know what kinda duckets he rakes for all this managing? Just guessing he don't send the OL down to the thrift shop to score the kid's school clothes, huh? :D

Oh, and thanks. :)

GP
02-27-2012, 02:26 PM
Here's a definition from wikianswers, but I am not sure of its reliability. It seems to mesh with what I had posted earlier.

After I posted my own description/definition, it dawned on me that maybe Rick Smith has management of only football operations, not the marketing side of things and other non-football tasks. The quote below describes differences from team-to-team as to what roles their GM does and does not perform.

Exact responsibilities vary from team to team, but a general manager (GM) is usually responsible for the whole operation. Many teams however do not give their general manager responsibilities over financial and commercial operations, but rather only over football matters (including salaries of players and other employees connected to the sports operation). Some teams call this GM without financial responsibilities a Vice President of Football Operations or Vice President of Player Personnel. But the media will often informally refer to such positions as the 'General Manager' to indicate that this is the person ultimately responsible for building the football program.

The General Manager will have ultimate authority over the players, coaches, scouts, trainers, and basically anyone who can conceivably have an impact on the product the team puts on the field. Despite having hiring/firing power over the Head Coach, most GMs are expected to treat the coach as a near equal. The GM will consult closely with the Head Coach when selecting players, and it is universally expected that the Head Coach will have substantial powers delegated to him including total control of his roster once the offseason acquisitions are made, and control over his staff.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_a_general_manager_of_a_NFL_team_do#ixzz1 nbzskqRJ

I think each franchise probably has its own "culture" of how it allows the GM to operate. You're probably going to find that each NFL franchise has a GM that can do sets of tasks that other GMs on other teams might not do. Think about it: When you've gone from one job to another, although the business has certain managers and certain department heads that are consistent with other businesses...not each business or entity is going to be a carbon copy of the others. What one manager can do in his current job does not mean he could become a manager at a new place of business and retain ALL of his previous roles and responsibilities...each culture will be different in many ways.

TimeKiller
02-27-2012, 06:05 PM
Rick Smith has input because he's the one putting the team together financially. He's the one dealing with agents, the business end on two accounts.

He's been a very good GM here, save a couple hairy drafts and Ahman Green. Wade is obviously having an effect on and off the field. No one has ever spoken that candidly about the process of the team.

Wolf
02-27-2012, 06:30 PM
Wade had no more influence than any of our other DCs..... Rick Smith & the Scouts found a bunch of players that fit what the Texans are going after. Wade whittled it down..... Rick had the final say.

I am going to assume that Rick leaned on Wade a little bit on last draft esp being Rick didn't have experience with the 3-4 defense (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79978)

Wolf
02-27-2012, 06:52 PM
Finally, we get to hear from the Houston Texans brass prior to the 2012 NFL Combine, with Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith answering media questions. We get some of the remarks from the two and see if we can dissect their statements. Smith and Kubiak covered their free agents, the quarterback situation, draft needs, the idea of improving the wide receiver position and more.



These were the Tweets from Friday’s press conference in Indianapolis.



@MockingTheDraft: Smith says WR is a position where the Texans may upgrade.

Rick Smith makes it known the Texans are in the evaluation process, will it come from the draft or free agency? No one knows but encouraging to see something has to be done.

@MockingTheDraft: Smith says it’s the Texans’ philosophy to go BPA (Best Player Available) and not stretch for needs.

At #26 it will be safe to say the Texans have a good chance of staying true to their draft board, this opens up even more possibilities for the possible selection.

@MockingTheDraft: Rick Smith says the Texans need to do some creative restructuring to retain some of their FAs.

Probably the question of the offseason and what are the Texans going to do to sign back their big free agents. As fans we know it is not going to be easy, Smith makes it pretty clear also.

Rick Smith at the NFL Combine

@HoustonTexans: Smith: #Texans will entertain idea of moving up or down in Draft. #Combine

There will be some value with the Texans #26 pick, also they are in position to go get that “impact” player at the top of the draft. Either way, trading down will always bring in more picks.

@MockingTheDraft: Smith said he especially looks for defenders who can make a play on the ball when evaluating.

The Texans created turnovers in 2010, and they need to continue on that theme. Secondary ball hawks are a necessity in the pass happy NFL.

@NickScurfield Rick Smith said he does not expect the #Texans to be as active in free agency as they were last year.

Not another eye-opening remark, hard to do when you have little cap space to work with. Still a low-grade free agent wouldn’t be a surprise.

http://www.stateofthetexans.com/?p=3215

not sure who runs the website, just stumbled on it

thunderkyss
02-27-2012, 07:06 PM
I can't believe the GM has final say over who gets picked instead of the coordinator who has to fit that guy into his system. Rick Smith sets no defenses (or offenses for that matter). He calls no plays. Why would his say-so carry more weight than the guy responsible for generating the defense or offense scheme??

Not only did Wade take Rick's list and whittle it down. My money says he - with his assistants - also ranked the guys on Rick's list. The only scenario I can see Rick having the final say is if Wade/Gary and the assistants have two guys ranked evenly. Then - maybe - Rick makes the call.

I'm good with that. My point is not that Rick Smith took who he wanted. This is a very "group-think" organization. Some guys make it sound as if Wade Smith came to Rick Smith with a list & said get these guys. "Forget that crap you call scouting, these are the guys I want."

It's been said that Rick Smith should get out of the way & let Wade & Gary pick the players. When Wade & Gary can not do their jobs if Rick Smith didn't do his job to begin with. Jj Watt, Brooks Reed, & Brandon Harris' name (along with 12 other players) were on Wade's list, because Rick Smith identified them as good players to begin with.

Wade may be more meticulous than our previous coordinators. He may be better at identifying what he wants than our previous coordinators. Or maybe he's less trusting.... I don't know.

But Rick Smith's role in selecting players has not been diminished because Wade Phillips is now our DC.

thunderkyss
02-27-2012, 07:18 PM
Like most of the things we cuss and dicuss on these forums, the decision of who decided on what pick is probably not nearly as cut and dried as we sometimes think. I would think the coordinators have a huge say, but the GM has the final say. He's the one that gets canned for bad drafts, afterall. He will also be the one who makes the call whether it's an offensive or defensive pick, based on valuation of available players and team needs.
That's why having the HC and GM on the same page is so important. If they have very different views on needs and a players value, you end up with a bad team full of players a coach doesn't want. If it were just up to the coordinators to pick who they want, all you would need is a HC to say offense or defense and a good attorney to work out the contracts and cap hits.
IMO, Smith's hardest decisions are going to be which stars to keep and which to let walk. There's no way we can keep them all.

I'm also thinking, though Wade probably had Brandon Harris rated higher than Brooks Reed, Rick might have said..... Harris will be there later, let's go ahead & grab Reed now.

Same way it went for the Duane Brown pick.

Then said, "Harris is probably going to go in this area, we need to position our selves 'here' to have a shot.." or "If this team doesn't take Harris, we're making this move."

Same thing the year before. They had a list of Running backs. Maybe as many as 6 that they thought could fit our system. The idea may have been, "if these 6 guys are still available, we'll wait until the third round to pick a running back; if 5 are available in the third, we'll wait until the 4th; if 4 are availavle in the 4th, we'll wait until the 5th & so on & so forth.... " they may have got to the final pick & still had 3 of their guys available so they decided not to use a pick on a running back at all.

Wolf
02-27-2012, 07:22 PM
from last year
Now it's up to general manager Rick Smith and coach Gary Kubiak to use the draft to improve the team, particularly its defense, on April 28-30.

"It doesn't get any better than this," Smith said of preparing for the draft. "(The draft is) the most impact I can make on our team short term and long term."

Smith and his staff of scouts have been working for months on their draft board. The coaches also are involved in an evaluation process that's heading down the homestretch.

"We want to make sure we get everyone evaluated the right way," said Smith, who's overseeing his fifth draft with the Texans. "We've had the scouts in the office tweaking our board, then we met with our coaches.

"I want to know how the scouts and coaches have the players stacked. That way, when it comes time to make the decision, I'll be clear about how each scout and coach feels about the individual players."

http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-could-use-first-round-draft-pick-in-many-1684987.php

DocBar
02-27-2012, 07:30 PM
I'm also thinking, though Wade probably had Brandon Harris rated higher than Brooks Reed, Rick might have said..... Harris will be there later, let's go ahead & grab Reed now.

Same way it went for the Duane Brown pick.

Then said, "Harris is probably going to go in this area, we need to position our selves 'here' to have a shot.." or "If this team doesn't take Harris, we're making this move."

Same thing the year before. They had a list of Running backs. Maybe as many as 6 that they thought could fit our system. The idea may have been, "if these 6 guys are still available, we'll wait until the third round to pick a running back; if 5 are available in the third, we'll wait until the 4th; if 4 are availavle in the 4th, we'll wait until the 5th & so on & so forth.... " they may have got to the final pick & still had 3 of their guys available so they decided not to use a pick on a running back at all.This probably describes every draft. Good post, though.

steelbtexan
02-27-2012, 08:05 PM
I'm also thinking, though Wade probably had Brandon Harris rated higher than Brooks Reed, Rick might have said..... Harris will be there later, let's go ahead & grab Reed now.

Same way it went for the Duane Brown pick.

Then said, "Harris is probably going to go in this area, we need to position our selves 'here' to have a shot.." or "If this team doesn't take Harris, we're making this move."

Same thing the year before. They had a list of Running backs. Maybe as many as 6 that they thought could fit our system. The idea may have been, "if these 6 guys are still available, we'll wait until the third round to pick a running back; if 5 are available in the third, we'll wait until the 4th; if 4 are availavle in the 4th, we'll wait until the 5th & so on & so forth.... " they may have got to the final pick & still had 3 of their guys available so they decided not to use a pick on a running back at all.

All Speculation

Hopefully the Texans war room works likeit did last yr.

Wade and Gary tell Rick that they got this and he can go to the bathroom for a few hrs.

DocBar
02-27-2012, 08:08 PM
All Speculation

Hopefully the Texans war room works likeit did last yr.

Wade and Gary tell Rick that they got this and he can go to the bathroom for a few hrs. Hello, Cpt. Obvious. 99.9% of posts on this board is opinion and/or speculation. To highlight this, go read your previous posts so you'll see just how effed up your opinions and speculations are. :kitten:

steelbtexan
02-27-2012, 08:19 PM
Hello, Cpt. Obvious. 99.9% of posts on this board is opinion and/or speculation. To highlight this, go read your previous posts so you'll see just how effed up your opinions and speculations are. :kitten:

Which post?

I was just picking at TK a little bit. Because in an earlier post he called me out for speculating on something. It's all in good fun.

Just because I think Rick is a yes man and doesn't spend much time or is very good at evaluating talent unlike the Jerry Reese/Colbert/Newsomes of the world doesn't make me wrong.

I'm just glad that Wade/Gary are he to make the call on who to draft. With them in charge the Texans future is very bright. Finally BoB found his Gary on the defensive side of the ball. Thanks Wade

thunderkyss
02-27-2012, 08:28 PM
I was just picking at TK a little bit. Because in an earlier post he called me out for speculating on something. It's all in good fun.

There's nothing wrong with speculating, as long as you preface with something like:
I'm also thinking...





Hopefully the Texans war room works likeit did last yr.

Wade and Gary tell Rick that they got this and he can go to the bathroom for a few hrs.

See..... this is a little different.

steelbtexan
02-27-2012, 08:48 PM
LOL

That's just the way I am.

DocBar
02-27-2012, 09:03 PM
Which post?

I was just picking at TK a little bit. Because in an earlier post he called me out for speculating on something. It's all in good fun.

Just because I think Rick is a yes man and doesn't spend much time or is very good at evaluating talent unlike the Jerry Reese/Colbert/Newsomes of the world doesn't make me wrong.

I'm just glad that Wade/Gary are he to make the call on who to draft. With them in charge the Texans future is very bright. Finally BoB found his Gary on the defensive side of the ball. Thanks WadePost 87. Call out TK all you want, I do it all the time. We rarely agree. You, on the other hand, are in lala land. Your posts neither reflect reality nor any sort of likely future. You're all :firehair: about Smith when all rational discussions say he's done a pretty OK job. You're being a pink soaper that just won't quit, regardless of the facts.

steelbtexan
02-27-2012, 09:21 PM
Post 87. Call out TK all you want, I do it all the time. We rarely agree. You, on the other hand, are in lala land. Your posts neither reflect reality nor any sort of likely future. You're all :firehair: about Smith when all rational discussions say he's done a pretty OK job. You're being a pink soaper that just won't quit, regardless of the facts.

Post 87?

That's Wolfs post

I get that you dont like my views. Until last yr the Texans lead by Gary/Rick were a floundering franchise. Now everythings great.

What changed? Did Rick suddenly become great at his job? That's all i'm asking. That and I dont like Rick blowing the BPA crap up my rear.

Because I question Ricks BPA statement,all of the sudden I'm in LA-LA land.

DocBar
02-27-2012, 10:03 PM
Post 87?

That's Wolfs post

I get that you dont like my views. Until last yr the Texans lead by Gary/Rick were a floundering franchise. Now everythings great.

What changed? Did Rick suddenly become great at his job? That's all i'm asking. That and I dont like Rick blowing the BPA crap up my rear.

Because I question Ricks BPA statement,all of the sudden I'm in LA-LA land.Sorry. meant post 89

dalemurphy
02-27-2012, 10:28 PM
Post 87?

That's Wolfs post

I get that you dont like my views. Until last yr the Texans lead by Gary/Rick were a floundering franchise. Now everythings great.

What changed? Did Rick suddenly become great at his job? That's all i'm asking. That and I dont like Rick blowing the BPA crap up my rear.
Because I question Ricks BPA statement,all of the sudden I'm in LA-LA land.

I don't think anything changed. I think Rick Smith has been an excellent GM for the past 3 years, at least. This year we won and that makes him look better. I'll say again: what Smith did in the 2009 off-season is going to be remembered for 20 years or more around here. It will go down as one of the best off-season's in NFL history if this team is about to go on the run that I think it is.

As far as his BPA statements: yeah, he's blowing smoke. That's what most of them do, though. What I'll say, though, is they have done a good job not reaching for players. They positioned themselves well and identified their guys each of the past 4 years with the possible exception of 2010. That's a pretty good rate of success. Arguably, the Texans have drafted 3 all-pro players in the first round the past four years. I wouldn't argue to much about the method that achieved those results.

GP
02-27-2012, 10:53 PM
I get tired of having to preface everything on a message board dedicated to kicking around opinions on all things football.

I expect people to know that I am giving an opinion even if I don't put things like "I am thinking..." or "In my opinion..." or whatever the slow people need in order to FULLY understand that I am being opinionated and expect others to be equally as creative or thoughtful in their analysis. But a person has to do it, or the Speculation Squad will come knocking on the door with a snarky reply to put someone in their "rightful" place.

Until we have a fully published book on how Bob and Gary and Rick TRULY operate, we'll have snippets of quotes and there'll still be a lot left to be discussed and commented upon with OPINIONS by us around here.

A lot of times, the always fun and very awkward reply of "You're just speculating" is the grown-up version of sticking fingers in your ears and acting like you can't hear the person.

I wonder which will come first: World peace or a message board where everyone understands that speculating is normal and perfectly fine?

This is the virtual version of the barber shop: The place where guys act like they know everything and could make the world run better if just given a chance to implement our awesome plans and ideas. Am I right? If so, then why don't we just be about the business of being guys and have fun with it.

steelbtexan
02-27-2012, 10:58 PM
I don't think anything changed. I think Rick Smith has been an excellent GM for the past 3 years, at least. This year we won and that makes him look better. I'll say again: what Smith did in the 2009 off-season is going to be remembered for 20 years or more around here. It will go down as one of the best off-season's in NFL history if this team is about to go on the run that I think it is.

As far as his BPA statements: yeah, he's blowing smoke. That's what most of them do, though. What I'll say, though, is they have done a good job not reaching for players. They positioned themselves well and identified their guys each of the past 4 years with the possible exception of 2010. That's a pretty good rate of success. Arguably, the Texans have drafted 3 all-pro players in the first round the past four years. I wouldn't argue to much about the method that achieved those results.

Agreed

This team is built on 3 drafts. IMHO

2006,2009,2012

The rest of the drafts have either been meh or like the 2007 draft bad.

Rick wasn't hear for the 2006 draft so he's batting .500. However to give credit where credit is due Rick hit a homerun on the 2009 draft. Wade helped him on the 2011 draft. (Another homerun)

The measure of Rick as a GM will come over the next 2 yrs with all of the contracts needing to be reupped. If he does a great job there (signing the right guys and letting the right guys go) the Texans should be a great team for yrs to come.

BTW, I used to be on the fire Gary bandwagon. I still dont think he's a great gameday coach. But his work with Yates and the fact that the Texans will be needing another QB soon has me on the lets give Gary a 2 yr extention bandwagon.

ObsiWan
02-28-2012, 12:54 AM
Agreed

This team is built on 3 drafts. IMHO

2006,2009,2012

The rest of the drafts have either been meh or like the 2007 draft bad.

Rick wasn't hear for the 2006 draft so he's batting .500. However to give credit where credit is due Rick hit a homerun on the 2009 draft. Wade helped him on the 2011 draft. (Another homerun)

The measure of Rick as a GM will come over the next 2 yrs with all of the contracts needing to be reupped. If he does a great job there (signing the right guys and letting the right guys go) the Texans should be a great team for yrs to come.

BTW, I used to be on the fire Gary bandwagon. I still dont think he's a great gameday coach. But his work with Yates and the fact that the Texans will be needing another QB soon has me on the lets give Gary a 2 yr extention bandwagon.

Nooooo!
:overreact:

You can't DO this!!!
Who will I debate with?!?!

:D

GP
02-28-2012, 02:30 AM
Agreed

This team is built on 3 drafts. IMHO

2006,2009,2012

The rest of the drafts have either been meh or like the 2007 draft bad.

Rick wasn't hear for the 2006 draft so he's batting .500. However to give credit where credit is due Rick hit a homerun on the 2009 draft. Wade helped him on the 2011 draft. (Another homerun)

The measure of Rick as a GM will come over the next 2 yrs with all of the contracts needing to be reupped. If he does a great job there (signing the right guys and letting the right guys go) the Texans should be a great team for yrs to come.

BTW, I used to be on the fire Gary bandwagon. I still dont think he's a great gameday coach. But his work with Yates and the fact that the Texans will be needing another QB soon has me on the lets give Gary a 2 yr extention bandwagon.

My, my....a 2-year extension huh? You ARE in a generous mood.

Just poking fun at ya', man. Nothing personal.

I like how you don't care about how people perceive you on this message board. And you're consistent in your statements. You don't give an inch, in terms of your standard of what you want to see in this Texans team, and whether people like that or not is irrelevant...you have your opinion and that's that.

That concludes our daily affirmation exercise. Fellow Texans fans, please take a moment to affirm and edify a fellow message board member here in this thread. Don't be shy, let someone know how much you value him or her.

TejasTom
03-01-2012, 10:00 AM
You can't DO this!!!
Who will I debate with?!?!

:D

I'm sure someone will step up.