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Rey
02-17-2012, 09:44 AM
Would you cut Demeco to re-sign Mario?

There was talk on the radio last night that the Texans would likely ask Demeco to re-structure his deal and if he refused to do so they'd essentially say "we enjoyed you, we love you, but you are making too much"...

With Cushing obviously being the Alpha LB on the team now, would you be willing to pay both of those guys monster money and then have a prolem with some other guys down the road?

I know everyone loves Demeco, but take emotions out of it for a second...

Hell, take Mario Williams out of it for a second...

Is Demeco Making too much money?

Ryan
02-17-2012, 09:56 AM
Would you cut Demeco to re-sign Mario?

There was talk on the radio last night that the Texans would likely ask Demeco to re-structure his deal and if he refused to do so they'd essentially say "we enjoyed you, we love you, but you are making too much"...

With Cushing obviously being the Alpha LB on the team now, would you be willing to pay both of those guys monster money and then have a prolem with some other guys down the road?

I know everyone loves Demeco, but take emotions out of it for a second...

Hell, take Mario Williams out of it for a second...

Is Demeco Making too much money?


I don't think so. He rightfully earned that contract with his play and he came off of major surgery and performed pretty well and started hitting his stride towards the end of the season and in playoffs.

NastyNate
02-17-2012, 09:58 AM
I don't think so. He rightfully earned that contract with his play and he came off of major surgery and performed pretty well and started hitting his stride towards the end of the season and in playoffs.

I agree whole heartedly with this. Though I would love it if he were willing to restructure :hurrah:

Rey
02-17-2012, 10:04 AM
I don't think so. He rightfully earned that contract with his play and he came off of major surgery and performed pretty well and started hitting his stride towards the end of the season and in playoffs.

I get what you are saying...


Does his deal in anyway hinder the team moving forward though? Is this a heart decision or a brain decision on your part?

ChampionTexan
02-17-2012, 10:04 AM
Given the fact that Demeco's deal is only two years old, and has already been restructured once, I would doubt that releasing him would create much additional cap space for the 2012 season.

Ryan
02-17-2012, 10:35 AM
I get what you are saying...


Does his deal in anyway hinder the team moving forward though? Is this a heart decision or a brain decision on your part?


Well I definitely think he'd be willing to restructure. It may be a heart decision on my part, but my brain tells me he's not making too much to downright cut him.

badboy
02-17-2012, 10:50 AM
I think Ryans rebounds due to better health. He should earn his contract $. My answer is no.

Blake
02-17-2012, 11:11 AM
Would you cut Demeco to re-sign Mario?

There was talk on the radio last night that the Texans would likely ask Demeco to re-structure his deal and if he refused to do so they'd essentially say "we enjoyed you, we love you, but you are making too much"...

With Cushing obviously being the Alpha LB on the team now, would you be willing to pay both of those guys monster money and then have a prolem with some other guys down the road?

I know everyone loves Demeco, but take emotions out of it for a second...

Hell, take Mario Williams out of it for a second...

Is Demeco Making too much money?

I dont think so. Players out-play their contracts and they also underperform their contracts. DeMeco is coming back from a bad ACL tear and all he did was stand up every FB he faced and make them pay for rushing up the middle.

What is he making next year? Roughly 6 million? Personally I think he is worth it. Hard worker. Shows the young guns how its done. Goes all out. Good role model in the community. Never in trouble.

Double Barrel
02-17-2012, 11:13 AM
While Cushing is the Alpha LB now, DeMeco is the heart of this defense.

Ask him to restructure for the good of the team, but losing him should not be an option.

I think Mario will be too expensive, and they did not seem to miss a beat when he got hurt.

Rey
02-17-2012, 11:20 AM
While Cushing is the Alpha LB now, DeMeco is the heart of this defense.
Ask him to restructure for the good of the team, but losing him should not be an option.

I think Mario will be too expensive, and they did not seem to miss a beat when he got hurt.

I don't know if I agree with the bolded...

I think it's obvious a lot of players look up to Demeco...I think he was looking really good towards the end of the season...I think in our base defense we are right behind Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman as far as ILB's go...

But I think players feed off of Cushings energy (maybe even JJ Watt and Antonio) more so than Demeco at this point...I think we've got a few guys who are good players now and there realy isn't a central point anymore, but rather a collection of guys getting it done for the most part...

welsh texan
02-17-2012, 11:32 AM
I'd say give Demeco another year post-surgery to prove his value to the team.
The guy has been the heart and soul for years and just because he was slowed whilst coming back last season doesn't mean we should cut him and let some other team snap him up.

On the other hand, you don't get paid on past performance, and if it becomes clear next year that he won't get back to where he was, then you have to look at the amount he's earning and change it somehow.

DexmanC
02-17-2012, 11:40 AM
You guys see the defense when Demeco was gone? Energy without direction,
and your defense becomes a sieve. He's definitely the brains on the field,
and every good d-coordinator has at least ONE of those guys. Didn't you see
him run the alignments when Atlanta tried to no-huddle? It's the small things
that pay off big in this game.

gtexan02
02-17-2012, 11:42 AM
I have no problem losing Demeco. He didn't even play the majority of snaps this year if I'm not mistaken. In a 3-4 defense, the ILBs are supposed to be tackle machines. Even Jay Forman outperformed Ryans as the #2 ILB in a 3-4.

I love the guy, love his leadership, but he's no longer elite in this system and I would rather spend my money on guys like Foster, etc

gtexan02
02-17-2012, 11:44 AM
You guys see the defense when Demeco was gone? Energy without direction,
and your defense becomes a sieve. He's definitely the brains on the field,
and every good d-coordinator has at least ONE of those guys. Didn't you see
him run the alignments when Atlanta tried to no-huddle? It's the small things
that pay off big in this game.

He came out whenever we had our nickel and dime packages on the field. He wasn't even in many games for the majority of snaps

DexmanC
02-17-2012, 11:49 AM
He came out whenever we had our nickel and dime packages on the field. He wasn't even in many games for the majority of snaps

I saw dude put Vonta Leach on his ass in a playoff game. When the Texans
were blowing fools out at the start of the year, they played a lot of nickel
and dime because the offense was putting 26-30 on folks.

When the games got tight, you saw the need for Demeco. To say he should
be stiffed on his contract or cut is an insane proposition.

That's all I'm sayin...

Peace.

Vinny
02-17-2012, 11:52 AM
He came out whenever we had our nickel and dime packages on the field. He wasn't even in many games for the majority of snaps
Brian Urlacher came out in the same game conditions....he went to the Pro Bowl. People latch on to this tidbit way too much. DeMeco looked like his old self late in the year. Ryans would be a big, big loss for this team. Look back two years ago when we lost him....the team wasn't even competitive defensively the rest of the way. We had a decent record till Ryans went down....look at the record once he was injured. We didn't win many games after that.

srrono
02-17-2012, 11:59 AM
I think Ryans should atleast take a pay cut or restructure his contract

badboy
02-17-2012, 12:03 PM
I think Ryans should atleast take a pay cut or restructure his contract

why? coming off injured year and playing much better end of season. Should be good to go game one.

Seņor Stan
02-17-2012, 12:03 PM
DeMeco = Heart and Soul.

srrono
02-17-2012, 12:10 PM
why? coming off injured year and playing much better end of season. Should be good to go game one.

6 mil a year is for a every down LB

Rey
02-17-2012, 12:16 PM
I'd say give Demeco another year post-surgery to prove his value to the team.
The guy has been the heart and soul for years and just because he was slowed whilst coming back last season doesn't mean we should cut him and let some other team snap him up.

On the other hand, you don't get paid on past performance, and if it becomes clear next year that he won't get back to where he was, then you have to look at the amount he's earning and change it somehow.

I thought Demeco actually looked pretty good at the end of this year...He was blowing people up...

Blake
02-17-2012, 12:16 PM
6 mil a year is for a every down LB

You are being to narrow sighted. He brings more to the team and position than just being a 2 or 3 down linebacker.

badboy
02-17-2012, 12:17 PM
6 mil a year is for a every down LBNo it is for a player that team thought it was worth paying to. Again he was injured. Few players agree to pay cuts after an injured year especially if not last year of deal. No one has asked Schaub to lower his 2012 salary due to not being an every down QB

Rey
02-17-2012, 12:18 PM
6 mil a year is for a every down LB


I would tend to agree...

My thing is, restructuring doesn't mean that he will get paid less...It can also mean just pushing money back to have money now....

When Cushing's contract is up, we're probably going to have to give him more money than Demeco....

That't going to be quite a bit tied up into that position...

Blake
02-17-2012, 12:23 PM
I would tend to agree...

My thing is, restructuring doesn't mean that he will get paid less...It can also mean just pushing money back to have money now....

When Cushing's contract is up, we're probably going to have to give him more money than Demeco....

That't going to be quite a bit tied up into that position...

Push it back to where? When we have to sign Barwin and Brown? Or back to when we have to sign Cushing and Ben Tate?

Rey
02-17-2012, 12:27 PM
Push it back to where? When we have to sign Barwin and Brown? Or back to when we have to sign Cushing and Ben Tate?

I have no idea...That depends on Rick Smith and his cap guy...

My point though is that if it gets pushed back he's going to have an even bigger salary on the back half of his contract...

Rey
02-17-2012, 12:32 PM
No it is for a player that team thought it was worth paying to. Again he was injured. Few players agree to pay cuts after an injured year especially if not last year of deal. No one has asked Schaub to lower his 2012 salary due to not being an every down QB

If I'm not mistaken we were still a 4-3 team when he signed his contract...Demeco was on the field every defensive snap and we didn't use a safety to play nick LB....

So I agree that at the time they felt like he was worth that money...

Do they feel that way now? I don't know. Maybe they value his leadership and steadiness that much...Maybe they think the entire year he will be at the level that he was toward the end of last year...

I don't know, but I do think that it's a legitimate concern with regards to his contract and his role on the team now and in the future...

welsh texan
02-17-2012, 01:37 PM
If I'm not mistaken we were still a 4-3 team when he signed his contract...Demeco was on the field every defensive snap and we didn't use a safety to play nick LB....

So I agree that at the time they felt like he was worth that money...

Do they feel that way now? I don't know. Maybe they value his leadership and steadiness that much...Maybe they think the entire year he will be at the level that he was toward the end of last year...

I don't know, but I do think that it's a legitimate concern with regards to his contract and his role on the team now and in the future...

I tend to agree with your take on this one Rey, your earlier point about how Demeco came along late in the year in particular. I actually think that arm problem held him back a lot more than people really talked about, when he first put that brace on he looked extremely hesitant and as that began to get better so did his play.

The problem really is the 'every-down' LB problem, and also, even in the bad years drafting for D, we've always done well at getting LB's to perform early. What will be telling is, if Demeco is healthier at the start of next season (which he should be) will the scheme suddenly change and he doesn't have a LB come down into his position in Nickle & Dime

Then there is always that nagging doubt in the back of my mind, Cloak said that players coming back from his injury almost always give their best performance in the first year back, and then go on a decline until they find themselves out of the league.

Demeco is the heart and soul, Cushing is the best player, and moving into his fourth season will surely be getting to the stage where his leadership is developing to a point where he may be able to take over that role.

I give Demeco another year, I see how he copes, is he going to be, long term, the player we're playing for, or does his contract no longer reflect his play?

Its harsh, but its the way the NFL works, you can't hang around waiting on guys in the salary cap era, you can't pay guys on the basis that they played above a rookie contract for years. Thats the way it works.

kiwitexansfan
02-17-2012, 01:51 PM
You guys see the defense when Demeco was gone? Energy without direction,
and your defense becomes a sieve. He's definitely the brains on the field,
and every good d-coordinator has at least ONE of those guys. Didn't you see
him run the alignments when Atlanta tried to no-huddle? It's the small things
that pay off big in this game.

This.

Ryan's is the leader of this team.

Cushing is a firebrand but you need to control that and direct it, hence Ryan's.

Marcus
02-17-2012, 03:18 PM
Brian Urlacher came out in the same game conditions....he went to the Pro Bowl. People latch on to this tidbit way too much. DeMeco looked like his old self late in the year. Ryans would be a big, big loss for this team. Look back two years ago when we lost him....the team wasn't even competitive defensively the rest of the way. We had a decent record till Ryans went down....look at the record once he was injured. We didn't win many games after that.

And here I thought we didn't win many games after that because we didn't have a decent defensive coordinator. Shows how much I know.

GP
02-17-2012, 03:37 PM
This is what makes or breaks "on the cusp" teams, IMO...the decisions about who you keep and who you let go.

Keep the right guys and let go of the downward-trending players, and you stay within the cap and your team can grow. Keep the wrong guys and let go of the upward-trending guys, and the cap will limit you until you can get rid of those salaries of players you shouldn't have kept for an extra few seasons.

This is where a GM, an owner, and a head coach take an "on the cusp" team and make it great...or they botch it and it's back to being mediocre again.

I do not envy the decisions those three guys are going to make. You've got a draft coming up, but who knows that you will hit on a JJ Watt and Brooks Reed and TJ Yates again??? What if you get the next Amobi Okoye or the next Travis Johnson or the next Wali Lundy? Oops...you better hope you made the right calls in free agency. Or else.

The OP said we should try to take emotions out of it. But damn if it isn't hard to do that! You don't want to see any of 'em go. DeMeco is a Ray Lewis type presence, to an extent. He calms those storms for the guys around him, he is very smart about what he's seeing pre-snap, and he's tough as nails. Now, what you "pay" that type of guy...I am not sure...but it's hard to let that guy sail away when you look at him, historically, as a Texans LB and what he's meant here.

Mr teX
02-17-2012, 03:41 PM
i like meco, but run stuffing ilbs, you can find alot easier between FA & the NFL draft. I think a guy like london fletcher..as old as he is, could do just as well as meco. how much he makes i don't know.

gafftop
02-17-2012, 04:35 PM
If you cut Demeco to keep Mario what type of message are you sending to the team. Are you serious! Demeco has been the heart and soul of his defense. Mario has never even been close to the heart and soul in fact I may go as far as to say he has been a negative influence in regards to giving it his all. Mario is the country club attitude that was referred to in one of the articles describing how the defense has changed. I don't want the other players on the D to take on Mario's attitude. You are saying because Demeco was injured and the defense has changed cut him to keep a player that has been injured the last 2 years. C'mon Man.

badboy
02-17-2012, 04:43 PM
I think McNair would love to hang AJ's, Demeco, and Mario's jerseys in the stadium eventually. Aaron Glenn would get an honorable mention if that exists.

amazing80
02-17-2012, 04:54 PM
This was a major topic on another site I frequent.

Ryans position is MUCH easier to replace if we had to. He IS making too much based on his ability this past season (he can get better but that is an uncertainty). Doesn't matter if he EarnED his contract, its a what have you done for me lately league and he simply is not worth that much RIGHT NOW.

Mario on the other hand was basically replaced this season (he would get his old job, but the point is we did fine without him). He will command a MASSIVE contract and it could POTENTIALLY affect our ability to sign guys down the road and upcoming this off-season. But his position is of GREAT importance and you can never have too many pass rushers.

This will be the toughest choice to date IMO, because Ryans is in the driver seat. He doesn't have to re-structure, and if he were to be cut our locker room would be very mad at the front office would affect the atmosphere and the ability to trust Rick Smith. I honestly think they are going to have to either sign Mario for cheap with what we got or let him walk. Im all for letting him go, but I really wish we would try to tag and trade him, even if it will be hard to do, we REALLY should try because letting him go for nothing would be foolish.

Looks like Smith will FINALLY earn his money.....

gafftop
02-17-2012, 05:11 PM
This was a major topic on another site I frequent.

Ryans position is MUCH easier to replace if we had to. He IS making too much based on his ability this past season (he can get better but that is an uncertainty). Doesn't matter if he EarnED his contract, its a what have you done for me lately league and he simply is not worth that much RIGHT NOW.

Mario on the other hand was basically replaced this season (he would get his old job, but the point is we did fine without him). He will command a MASSIVE contract and it could POTENTIALLY affect our ability to sign guys down the road and upcoming this off-season. But his position is of GREAT importance and you can never have too many pass rushers.

This will be the toughest choice to date IMO, because Ryans is in the driver seat. He doesn't have to re-structure, and if he were to be cut our locker room would be very mad at the front office would affect the atmosphere and the ability to trust Rick Smith. I honestly think they are going to have to either sign Mario for cheap with what we got or let him walk. Im all for letting him go, but I really wish we would try to tag and trade him, even if it will be hard to do, we REALLY should try because letting him go for nothing would be foolish.

Looks like Smith will FINALLY earn his money.....

Mario not signing for cheap and I don't blame him for not doing so. If Smith can get a tag and trade then he is the man. I stated back in 4/2011 that I wanted to trade Mario then because I agree getting NOTHING for him really hurts the team and I felt that if he wasn't traded then we would get nothing for Mario no matter what happened during the year.

Corrosion
02-17-2012, 05:20 PM
I get what you are saying...


Does his deal in anyway hinder the team moving forward though? Is this a heart decision or a brain decision on your part?

The answer to the bold is yes.

Ive said in multiple threads that I think Ryans contract has to be reworked. He will have a cap number of around $8.5m. for the coming season.

There are a few others who could get reworked as well - #80 , OD and Winston among them as well as possibly Antonio Smith and Schaub in some sort of extension(s).

Couple that with J.Jones and Leinart (possibly others) being cap casualty cuts ....

DocBar
02-17-2012, 06:12 PM
This was a major topic on another site I frequent.

Ryans position is MUCH easier to replace if we had to. He IS making too much based on his ability this past season (he can get better but that is an uncertainty). Doesn't matter if he EarnED his contract, its a what have you done for me lately league and he simply is not worth that much RIGHT NOW.

Mario on the other hand was basically replaced this season (he would get his old job, but the point is we did fine without him). He will command a MASSIVE contract and it could POTENTIALLY affect our ability to sign guys down the road and upcoming this off-season. But his position is of GREAT importance and you can never have too many pass rushers.

This will be the toughest choice to date IMO, because Ryans is in the driver seat. He doesn't have to re-structure, and if he were to be cut our locker room would be very mad at the front office would affect the atmosphere and the ability to trust Rick Smith. I honestly think they are going to have to either sign Mario for cheap with what we got or let him walk. Im all for letting him go, but I really wish we would try to tag and trade him, even if it will be hard to do, we REALLY should try because letting him go for nothing would be foolish.

Looks like Smith will FINALLY earn his money.....MSR! I mostly agree with this, but am 100% against trying to tag and trade Mario. It would take a blood oath and hostages from the other team to get me to do this. Way too much liability if the other team reneges.
As far as Ryans, I would definitely explore restructuring his deal, but there's no way I would cut him. To repeat a lot of other posts, he really came on at the end of the season and he is the unquestioned heart and soul of the defense. If Cush has a 2012 like 2011, that may well change, but I wouldn;t want to mess with the chemistry this team has. If Mario leaves, it will be understood in the locker room. If Ryans goes, it will be understood also, but in a much different light.

ATXtexanfan
02-17-2012, 07:04 PM
Meco was owed money like foster for outperforming his rookie contract, has mario outperformed his?

Kaiser Toro
02-17-2012, 07:11 PM
I would not do that, and it will not happen as a 1 for 1. The question is, who gets released and restructured to invest in Mario, Foster, Myers and Brisiel.

Demeco's value to the ascension of the defense showed last year. We all knew, since the first season, that this guy would be the glue of a championship team somewhere down the line. I have questioned his speed at times, before the injury and many times after, but the value he provides to the defense, at this juncture in the Texans' northeast track, is priceless.

srrono
02-17-2012, 07:23 PM
So you guys are not worried about Ryans playing ability as long as he can hold pom poms?
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ryg4ls.jpg

The better teams such as PIT get rid of players on the down slope to keep the team on top. 8.5 mil towards the cap is crazy money for a under performing ILB on a 34 defense. The OLB in the 34 are normally the higher paid players.

thunderkyss
02-17-2012, 08:00 PM
I don't. Believe this is a Mario or Demeco deal any more than I believe this is a Mario or Foster deal.

However, if I had to choose, I'd choose Mario. Which one is going to command the biggest interest in Free Agency? Which one is going to be more difficult to replace?

I know a lot of people think we've already replaced Mario, I just don't see it that way.

DocBar
02-17-2012, 08:03 PM
So you guys are not worried about Ryans playing ability as long as he can hold pom poms?
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ryg4ls.jpg

The better teams such as PIT get rid of players on the down slope to keep the team on top. 8.5 mil towards the cap is crazy money for a under performing ILB on a 34 defense. The OLB in the 34 are normally the higher paid players.Who says Ryans is on the downslope of his career? He damned sure didn't look like it in the last 6-7 weeks. He looked like a player recovering from 2 serious injuries. The achilles injury is definitely the biggest, but do you really expect tackling machine from a guy with a brace the size of a smart car on his elbow? I say Ryans did pretty damned well in '11.

thunderkyss
02-17-2012, 08:23 PM
Who says Ryans is on the downslope of his career? He damned sure didn't look like it in the last 6-7 weeks. He looked like a player recovering from 2 serious injuries. The achilles injury is definitely the biggest, but do you really expect tackling machine from a guy with a brace the size of a smart car on his elbow? I say Ryans did pretty damned well in '11.

I agree, adding a healthy Demeco & Mario is going to be like adding two dynamic free agents to our front seven. I'm very excited to see this defense next year.


We're going to blow the top off the league next year.

srrono
02-17-2012, 08:39 PM
I agree, adding a healthy Demeco & Mario is going to be like adding two dynamic free agents to our front seven. I'm very excited to see this defense next year.


We're going to blow the top off the league next year.

IF he can be the Ryans of old I still think his contract should be reconstructed 8.5mil for ILB in 34 is way overpaid. MLB in a 43 gets 8.5mil as a pro bowl MLB, but HOU is no longer a 43. That cap number needs to come down.

badboy
02-17-2012, 09:18 PM
IF he can be the Ryans of old I still think his contract should be reconstructed 8.5mil for ILB in 34 is way overpaid. MLB in a 43 gets 8.5mil as a pro bowl MLB, but HOU is no longer a 43. That cap number needs to come down.As was stated a few posts ago, Mr. McNair told Ryans he would take care of him & did. He is overpaying some for Demeco over performing his first contract. Kind of employer most of us want. Then Demeo was injured so you have to understand the parameters of the situation. I wonder how you'd talk if the same things were happening to you. If you over performed & boss volunteered to make it up but you were then hurt, I doubt you'd give back a nickle. Does Demeco appear on the surface to be overpaid for 2011? Yes, but due to a correction of first deal and being hurt.

srrono
02-17-2012, 09:25 PM
As was stated a few posts ago, Mr. McNair told Ryans he would take care of him & did. He is overpaying some for Demeco over performing his first contract. Kind of employer most of us want. Then Demeo was injured so you have to understand the parameters of the situation. I wonder how you'd talk if the same things were happening to you. If you over performed & boss volunteered to make it up but you were then hurt, I doubt you'd give back a nickle. Does Demeco appear on the surface to be overpaid for 2011? Yes, but due to a correction of first deal and being hurt.

this is the NFL not burger king. NFL = Not For Long if under performing.

badboy
02-17-2012, 10:01 PM
this is the NFL not burger king. NFL = Not For Long if under performing.That is what I've been saying. Demeco did not under perform for the situation.

ObsiWan
02-18-2012, 12:27 AM
this is the NFL not burger king. NFL = Not For Long if under performing.

DeMeco was third on the team in tackles with 68. Second in tackles for loss with 6. He had 4 passes defensed - third among our LBs. He was a key piece of a defense that was in the top ten for most of the year. All this while battling back from a season-ending injury, learning a new defense and being taken off the field on 3rd & long.

So please... tell me what metrics you're using to justify this "he underperformed" assessment.... or alternatively, point out which ILB, currently on our roster, would have performed better?

infantrycak
02-18-2012, 02:54 AM
DeMeco was third on the team in tackles with 68. Second in tackles for loss with 6. He had 4 passes defensed - third among our LBs. He was a key piece of a defense that was in the top ten for most of the year. All this while battling back from a season-ending injury, learning a new defense and being taken off the field on 3rd & long.

So please... tell me what metrics you're using to justify this "he underperformed" assessment.... or alternatively, point out which ILB, currently on our roster, would have performed better?

Plus he is the intellectual and emotional leader of the D. He both fires them up but then cools down those like Cushing and Smith when they need it just before getting them into exactly the right place for Wade's scheme. I know all this can't be seen through a TV but folks seriously if you watch DeMeco from the sidelines he is not overpaid.

dalemurphy
02-18-2012, 03:06 AM
Plus he is the intellectual and emotional leader of the D. He both fires them up but then cools down those like Cushing and Smith when they need it just before getting them into exactly the right place for Wade's scheme. I know all this can't be seen through a TV but folks seriously if you watch DeMeco from the sidelines he is not overpaid.

Beyond that, I'm pretty sure Demeco received a healthy signing bonus. If so, cutting him would cost a great deal on this year's cap number. So, that makes no sense nor does that fact put the team in a position of power to force him to restructure.

thunderkyss
02-18-2012, 05:49 AM
Beyond that, I'm pretty sure Demeco received a healthy signing bonus. If so, cutting him would cost a great deal on this year's cap number. So, that makes no sense nor does that fact put the team in a position of power to force him to restructure.

RotoWorld (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3657/demeco-ryans)
3/30/2010: Signed a six-year, $48 million contract. The deal contains $21.75 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus. Another $600,000 is available through incentives based on Pro Bowl appearances in the first three years. 2011: $5.8 million, 2012: $5.9 million, 2013: $6.6 million, 2014-2015: $6.8 million, 2016: Free Agent

With a $1.5M pro rated bonus his 2012 cap number should be $7.4M if we cut him it would leave $6.0M to be accounted for...... but if that $21.75 is fully guaranteed, we're looking at $8.4M left on the books. Yeah, not really a saving a lot, if any at all.

But, Demeco is a Texans, they can convert this years salary to a signing bonus, lowering his cap number to $2M (or so) saving $5M if they need to.

Demeco gets paid just like he normally would, it's no different to him, other than his cap number will go up for the remainder of the contract (2013-2016) possibly increasing the likely hood of being a cap casualty later on. But since the cap will go up in 2013....

The Medic01
02-18-2012, 12:01 PM
I feel like DeMeco is our Ray Lewis. Maybe not as good but he is our leader on this team and in the late in the season he was playing very well. I'd let go of Mario, Jacoby, and Walter before I let go of him.

b0ng
02-18-2012, 12:11 PM
Daryl Sharpton playing pretty well (until he got hurt) is an ignored part of this discussion. I don't think cutting Demeco would be sound if it's not going to save us a lot of cap money, although it will be interesting to see if Sharpton can keep getting meaningful snaps in 2012 like he was doing in 2011.

welsh texan
02-18-2012, 12:44 PM
Daryl Sharpton playing pretty well (until he got hurt) is an ignored part of this discussion. I don't think cutting Demeco would be sound if it's not going to save us a lot of cap money, although it will be interesting to see if Sharpton can keep getting meaningful snaps in 2012 like he was doing in 2011.

How good is Cushing without DeMeco next to him though? Small sample size, and with other 'factors' affecting his play (pregnancy, position change) but he was dogturd when Ryans was cheerleading in 2010. That is worth considering.

Bubbajwp
02-18-2012, 12:51 PM
I dont believe for one second that the Texans would cut Demeco. Reworking his contract is a possibility but cutting him is very unlikely. Although if they doe cut him give me either Donta Hightower or Vontaze Burfict at 26. I personally think we need depth at MLB anyway's. Sharpton is good but very small for a ILB in a 3-4.

Norg
02-18-2012, 01:02 PM
it depends on how fully sharpton will fully recover IMO if hes still not 100% i think we are handcuffed but to have to keep demco


But im on the Keep mario cut Demco boat i love u demco but its just biz nas

it will be a big gamble tho

b0ng
02-18-2012, 01:05 PM
How good is Cushing without DeMeco next to him though? Small sample size, and with other 'factors' affecting his play (pregnancy, position change) but he was dogturd when Ryans was cheerleading in 2010. That is worth considering.

Cushing did fine on 3rd downs this year brah.

welsh texan
02-18-2012, 02:16 PM
Cushing did fine on 3rd downs this year brah.

I agree and I felt that point might come up, but its only 1 down on your own out there, it is a worry that I'd have if we were to outright cut Demeco, how did Cushing handle being without him full time? It would worry me.

thunderkyss
02-18-2012, 03:40 PM
How good is Cushing without DeMeco next to him though? Small sample size, and with other 'factors' affecting his play (pregnancy, position change) but he was dogturd when Ryans was cheerleading in 2010. That is worth considering.

Cushing looked like dogturd in the one game he & Demeco played in 2010. It wasn't the absence of Demeco that led to the poor play, it was the scheme & philosophy.

"Stand 7 yards from the LOS, wait until the RB commits, then play to the ball... by the way, if they try to throw the ball to Kj's side, knock it down." seems like the instruction he was given. No one would look good playing that way.

gary
02-18-2012, 06:56 PM
Keep Demeco over Mario.

Dutchrudder
02-18-2012, 09:52 PM
Give Demeco next year to prove himself, he has certainly earned that much. Plus, there's no sense in cutting him now given his contract. If he plays terribly next year, then there will be reason to discuss his future, but otherwise we don't really have a fully recovered season of performance to use to gauge his ability. I believe he will bounce back, but if he doesn't there will be a tough decision to make next year.

thunderkyss
02-18-2012, 10:13 PM
Why wouldn't Demeco want to restructure? He gets the same money, maybe more & added protection against getting cut.

He's due what, $7M next year? plus a $1M portion of his signing bonus? Making his cap hit $8M.

Turn his 2012 salary into a signing bonus, dividing it among the remaining time on his contract.... 4 years (??) His cap could be as low as $2M for 2012

Lucky
02-19-2012, 10:07 AM
Why wouldn't Demeco want to restructure?
Ryans restructured his contract last year. I don't see how that would benefit him or the Texans this year. I haven't even seen what the terms are after the restructure, but it's not on Rotoworld. Seriously, talk of cutting Ryans this year is a joke.

thunderkyss
02-19-2012, 10:22 AM
Seriously, talk of cutting Ryans this year is a joke.

True...

ckhouston
02-19-2012, 10:24 AM
Both DeMeco and Mario will be Texans next year.

Corrosion
02-19-2012, 04:38 PM
Ryans restructured his contract last year. I don't see how that would benefit him or the Texans this year. I haven't even seen what the terms are after the restructure, but it's not on Rotoworld. Seriously, talk of cutting Ryans this year is a joke.

No way he's cut .... But his caphit being north of $8m is unacceptable in the Texans current situation and for his contribution on the field.

He's only in the base package while Cushing is the only every down LB. Any time the Texans are in nickle or dime coverage Demeco's on the sidelines. I believe I saw a stat showing they were in their base defense less than 40% of the time last season .... which means Demeco got less than 40% of the snaps. Thats a hefty price to pay for a 1 or 2 down LB.

thunderkyss
02-19-2012, 04:57 PM
No way he's cut .... But his caphit being north of $8m is unacceptable in the Texans current situation and for his contribution on the field.

He's only in the base package while Cushing is the only every down LB. Any time the Texans are in nickle or dime coverage Demeco's on the sidelines. I believe I saw a stat showing they were in their base defense less than 40% of the time last season .... which means Demeco got less than 40% of the snaps. Thats a hefty price to pay for a 1 or 2 down LB.

That's 2011.... we don't know how often he'll be on the field in 2012.

He was coming off a severe Achilles, then he had that elbow thing.

Late in the season, he was playing some football, with a capital BADMOFO. I'm sure we'll see him on the field more in 2012 than in 2011.

You put your best players on the field, who would you rather have out there, a healthy Demeco or Nolan.... or Demps?

DocBar
02-19-2012, 05:24 PM
That's 2011.... we don't know how often he'll be on the field in 2012.

He was coming off a severe Achilles, then he had that elbow thing.

Late in the season, he was playing some football, with a capital BADMOFO. I'm sure we'll see him on the field more in 2012 than in 2011.

You put your best players on the field, who would you rather have out there, a healthy Demeco or Nolan.... or Demps?With a full offseason conditioning program, wouldn't you think he'd be better than last year? The achille's issue is the biggest question mark, by far.

Corrosion
02-19-2012, 05:43 PM
That's 2011.... we don't know how often he'll be on the field in 2012.

He was coming off a severe Achilles, then he had that elbow thing.

Late in the season, he was playing some football, with a capital BADMOFO. I'm sure we'll see him on the field more in 2012 than in 2011.

You put your best players on the field, who would you rather have out there, a healthy Demeco or Nolan.... or Demps?


He did make significant improvement twards the end of the year .... but He's not going to replace a safety in coverage. Thats definately not one of his strong points.

Down and distance greatly affect how much he sees the field .... hard to justify the price tag IMO.

dalemurphy
02-19-2012, 05:57 PM
With a full offseason conditioning program, wouldn't you think he'd be better than last year? The achille's issue is the biggest question mark, by far.

Demeco has never been particularly strong in coverage. He's also not nearly the blitzer that Cushing is. Therefore, he's the first linebacker off the field when the team goes nickel and dime.

thunderkyss
02-19-2012, 06:18 PM
Demeco has never been particularly strong in coverage. He's also not nearly the blitzer that Cushing is. Therefore, he's the first linebacker off the field when the team goes nickel and dime.

I think with a healthy Demeco, we'll see less Dime coverage. Cody/Mitchell will come off the field, we'll bring in an extra defensive back.... McClain for our Nickel; Demeco stays on the field.

Corrosion
02-19-2012, 06:37 PM
I think with a healthy Demeco, we'll see less Dime coverage. Cody/Mitchell will come off the field, we'll bring in an extra defensive back.... McClain for our Nickel; Demeco stays on the field.

Much of that is dictated by down and distance as well as opponents personel packages .... I could see leaving Ryans on the field when his responsibility is a TE but not if he's covering a WR.

Thats a lot of the reason the Texans defense was much more successful Vs the pass this season - Having that extra DB instead of a LB .... We often saw Ryans and other LB's in coverage linprevious seasons , the majority of the time this past season we had a DB instead .... accept for those first down and short to mediou yardage situations.

Rey
02-19-2012, 07:16 PM
No way he's cut .... But his caphit being north of $8m is unacceptable in the Texans current situation and for his contribution on the field.

He's only in the base package while Cushing is the only every down LB. Any time the Texans are in nickle or dime coverage Demeco's on the sidelines. I believe I saw a stat showing they were in their base defense less than 40% of the time last season .... which means Demeco got less than 40% of the snaps. Thats a hefty price to pay for a 1 or 2 down LB.

I remember a couple games last year where Demeco barely played...I think some of that was due to his early injury struggles, but I think it also had something to do with him just not being in on the packages like you mention...

He is a beast of a second LB, but you are right that is a hefty price tag...

DocBar
02-19-2012, 07:55 PM
The point of this thread is MW's value vs. Ryans value. Lets not lose sight of that. IMO, it's obvious, from many years of observation, that the D will miss Ryans much more than MW. See also 2010vs2011 rankings.

GP
02-19-2012, 08:17 PM
The point of this thread is MW's value vs. Ryans value. Lets not lose sight of that. IMO, it's obvious, from many years of observation, that the D will miss Ryans much more than MW. See also 2010vs2011 rankings.

I think 2010 vs. 2011, in terms of evaluating 'Meco's presence in 2011 and his absence in 2010...that's a hard sell for this argument. The defense as a whole, in 2010, was atrocious. The coaching was abysmal, the whole scheme and its weekly FUBAR self makes it difficult to say "When 'Meco was in, we were decent, and when he was out we were awful." Just my two cents on it, since I have seen other posters mention this earlier in the convo.

'Meco looked pretty JAG in his first game or two, maybe three, of 2011. But as the elbow got better, so did 'Meco. He grew stronger and was more of a presence as 2011 wore on.

I'd like to keep him if it's possible. Back when him and OD were clamoring for re-worked contracts a few seasons ago, I was fine with the Texans telling them "No" and waiting to let their contracts expire. IIRC, the Texans re-worked those two contracts, which speaks to their good will towards two "lunch pail" guys who were here in the lean years and gave it their all no matter what.

I think you have to try to give 'Meco the chance to stay but with a clear-cut understanding of what he can be REASONABLY paid, considering his injury history and the contracts we're having to pony up BIG money toward.

Rey
02-19-2012, 08:32 PM
The point of this thread is MW's value vs. Ryans value. Lets not lose sight of that. IMO, it's obvious, from many years of observation, that the D will miss Ryans much more than MW. See also 2010vs2011 rankings.

Seems like people are remembering things how they want to...

The Defense was bad even before Demeco got hurt that year...In fact, many people were already talking about how Demeco looked like he lost a step BEFORE his injury.

I, myself, speculated that Demeco had probably gained too much weight...I don't know if that is the reason he hurt his achilles in space but I do think it had something to do with him not looking as quick as he did in previous seasons.

I don't think the Texans will cut Demeco to sign Mario...In fact that was Barry Warner that suggested that the Texans may look into that as a possiblity if he is not willing to restructure again.

I don't understand the cap stuff, but I understand a player making too much money for the good of the team. I think that Demeco may be approaching that area considering all the facts...With or without Mario his contract may become an issue...

Corrosion
02-20-2012, 03:04 AM
I remember a couple games last year where Demeco barely played...I think some of that was due to his early injury struggles, but I think it also had something to do with him just not being in on the packages like you mention...

He is a beast of a second LB, but you are right that is a hefty price tag...

Yeah I recall onegame , I forget which .... people were complaining that he didnt show up in the stat sheet.... That was because he was on the field for Eight Snaps (8) mainly due to down and distance .... Cant tackle when youare on the sidelines.

Prior to the drafting of Cushing .... I think Demeco would have remained on the field much more but Cushing is a much better pass rusher and probably covers backs better which gives him the nod in those passing situations.


We're not in aneither or situation .... but I think they almost have to rework Ryans deal. $8.5m is just too steep a price to pay for a 1-2 down player.


Seems like people are remembering things how they want to...

The Defense was bad even before Demeco got hurt that year...In fact, many people were already talking about how Demeco looked like he lost a step BEFORE his injury.



If you look at the game that Demeco got hurt in against the Chiefs .... They allowed 7.5 ypc inthe second half as opposed to ~5ish in the first half. (from memory) That defense was poor to start with , but taking Demeco away from it just made it that much worse.

The point of this thread is MW's value vs. Ryans value. Lets not lose sight of that. IMO, it's obvious, from many years of observation, that the D will miss Ryans much more than MW. See also 2010vs2011 rankings.

You can never have enough pass rushers .....

Im by no means knocking Ryans .... but I believe a high quality pass rusher is the more important player over a 1-2 down ILB , unless that LB is Ray Lewis in his prime good.


Take a look at the Giants two superbowl runs - both fueled by their pass rush ... and they have three guy's who contribute routinely to that end in Pierre-Paul , Tuck and Umenyiora.

TheMatrix31
02-20-2012, 04:41 AM
Demeco is the glue of this defense. Abso****inglutely not.

Corrosion
02-20-2012, 04:52 AM
Demeco is the glue of this defense. Abso****inglutely not.

No to a restructure of a guy who is on the field ... lets call it 33% of the time ?


...... Nope.

TheMatrix31
02-20-2012, 04:54 AM
I was answering the main topic.

If he's down to restructure and it helps the team keep other guys, then sure.

SteveSlaton20
02-20-2012, 10:55 PM
No. DeMeco had a few bad games, one against the Ravens during the regular season to name one, but he was becoming himself later in the season, especially in the playoffs. Mario is a beast, but it's not hard to find a pass rusher in the draft or in the FA.

edo783
02-21-2012, 01:57 AM
No. DeMeco had a few bad games, one against the Ravens during the regular season to name one, but 1.) he was becoming himself later in the season, especially in the playoffs. Mario is a beast, but 2.)it's not hard to find a pass rusher in the draft or in the FA.

1.) Very true, but still only on the field ~1/3 of the time or LESS. Too much money for that kind of production at that position. He is a well respected man on the team and in the league for that mater, but he still need to be re-structured to make him worth the financial commitment of the team at that position.

2.) That is very much NOT true. If it were, every team would have the 4 horses of the apocholips coming after the QB all the time and the truth is MOST teams have trouble getting more than 1 or 2 good pass rushers and to get the really outstanding ones is fairly rare.

Other stopping the run, pressure on the QB probably has the most to due with a defense winning a game for the offense.

infantrycak
02-21-2012, 02:10 AM
1.) Very true, but still only on the field ~1/3 of the time or LESS. Too much money for that kind of production at that position. He is a well respected man on the team and in the league for that mater, but he still need to be re-structured to make him worth the financial commitment of the team at that position.

I certainly hope he would restructure to help out the team. That said I think one of the most overused fan interests - leadership - is one of his least appreciated. I have witnessed him rein in Cushing, take him to task for being out of position/missing an assignment, fire the entire D up. DeMeco is a natural born leader and affects more than just the plays he plays.

2.) That is very much NOT true. If it were, every team would have the 4 horses of the apocholips coming after the QB all the time and the truth is MOST teams have trouble getting more than 1 or 2 good pass rushers and to get the really outstanding ones is fairly rare.

Other stopping the run, pressure on the QB probably has the most to due with a defense winning a game for the offense.

Exactly true and Mario affects both. He doesn't have huge tackle stats because you can watch teams play to run away from him. It's harder to tell when a player only plays one side but you can see the adjustments and audibles as he moves around the field.

ckhouston
02-21-2012, 09:46 AM
Exactly true and Mario affects both. He doesn't have huge tackle stats because you can watch teams play to run away from him. It's harder to tell when a player only plays one side but you can see the adjustments and audibles as he moves around the field.

Excellent point, and to me why we need to lock this guy up. Other teams game plan to avoid him. That in itself speaks volumes.

srrono
03-03-2012, 02:39 PM
The Redzone ‏ @TheRedzoneorg
DeMeco Ryans likely will be asked to take a paycut tinyurl.com/6nxgnl9 #NFL #Texans

Pro Football Weekly ‏ @ProFootballWkly
#Texans LB DeMeco Ryans will be asked to take a pay cut this offseason, writes @ArthurArkush. bit.ly/z6YjX4

Corrosion
03-03-2012, 02:48 PM
No. DeMeco had a few bad games, one against the Ravens during the regular season to name one, but he was becoming himself later in the season, especially in the playoffs. Mario is a beast, but it's not hard to find a pass rusher in the draft or in the FA.

Its much easier to find solid run stuffing ILB's than pass rushers the calibur of MW.


The Redzone ‏ @TheRedzoneorg
DeMeco Ryans likely will be asked to take a paycut tinyurl.com/6nxgnl9 #NFL #Texans

Pro Football Weekly ‏ @ProFootballWkly
#Texans LB DeMeco Ryans will be asked to take a pay cut this offseason, writes @ArthurArkush. bit.ly/z6YjX4

Who didnt see that comin ?! $8.5m in cap space is just too much.

Rey
03-03-2012, 03:48 PM
Its much easier to find solid run stuffing ILB's than pass rushers the calibur of MW.




Who didnt see that comin ?! $8.5m in cap space is just too much.

Yep...

Hopefully Demeco will go ahead and do it..

And taking a pay cut is not the same as re-structuring...If this is correct I think it's obvious that they believe he is making too much money for his value and/or the good of the team

Corrosion
03-03-2012, 04:01 PM
Yep...

Hopefully Demeco will go ahead and do it..

And taking a pay cut is not the same as re-structuring...If this is correct I think it's obvious that they believe he is making too much money for his value and/or the good of the team


It is a "restructure" ..... they will likely give him more guaranteed money but backload the deal with money he will never see.

infantrycak
03-03-2012, 04:07 PM
It is a "restructure" ..... they will likely give him more guaranteed money but backload the deal with money he will never see.

Or they will convert some of the salary from the next couple years into a new signing bonus so it can be pro-rated and lower the cap.

Rey
03-03-2012, 04:15 PM
It is a "restructure" ..... they will likely give him more guaranteed money but backload the deal with money he will never see.

Or they will convert some of the salary from the next couple years into a new signing bonus so it can be pro-rated and lower the cap.

This is the first I'm hearing about it...

Has then been reported as a re-structure?

I don't know as much about the cap stuff as some of you guys, but can they even do a "pay-cut"?

Corrosion
03-03-2012, 04:22 PM
This is the first I'm hearing about it...

Has then been reported as a re-structure?

I don't know as much about the cap stuff as some of you guys, but can they even do a "pay-cut"?

Its complicated .... but , players cant really "give money back" only move it around.

In many cases they will take more "guaranteed money" and end up with a large cap number at the end of the contract which they will never see. Guaranteed money is what creates dead cap money should a player be cut.

Cak's post shows another way teams can lower cap hits by spreading bonus money over multiple years tho less common and in general less effective in the long term. It helps in the here and now but also increases future years cap hits.

thunderkyss
03-03-2012, 07:42 PM
Yep...

Hopefully Demeco will go ahead and do it..

And taking a pay cut is not the same as re-structuring...If this is correct I think it's obvious that they believe he is making too much money for his value and/or the good of the team

Who is they? The guys at ProFootballWeekly?

Who cares what they think?

Rey
03-03-2012, 07:53 PM
Who is they? The guys at ProFootballWeekly?

Who cares what they think?

????

I thought it was pretty obvious that the team is the only one that can ask him to re-structure or take a pay cut...

Corrosion
03-03-2012, 08:08 PM
Who is they? The guys at ProFootballWeekly?

Who cares what they think?

I brought up Ryans contract months ago , when we first begain discussing our FA crop and relatively low amount of cap room , saying it was likely they asked him to restructure .... His is the most obvious contracts on the team to free up cap space.
Not to mention the fact he's on the field for about 40% of the defensive snaps .... which isnt likely to change (even if Ryans is 100% healthy) going forward since Cushing is the lone LBer on the field in nickle and dime packages. 8.5m is a hell of a lot of jack to pay under those circumstances.

thunderkyss
03-03-2012, 08:32 PM
????

I thought it was pretty obvious that the team is the only one that can ask him to re-structure or take a pay cut...

Yes, the team is the only one who can ask him to restructure.

You said, "If this is correct I think it's obvious that they believe he is making too much money for his value and/or the good of the team"

The Redzone ‏ @TheRedzoneorg
DeMeco Ryans likely will be asked to take a paycut tinyurl.com/6nxgnl9 #NFL #Texans

Pro Football Weekly ‏ @ProFootballWkly
#Texans LB DeMeco Ryans will be asked to take a pay cut this offseason, writes @ArthurArkush. bit.ly/z6YjX4

No one knows, or has reported that the Texans have or will ask Demeco to restructure. Only that they believe

Their opinion has no reflection on their thoughts about Demeco Ryans. Asking Demeco to restructure means they still value him as a football player. Cutting him if he doesn't would clearly tell us what they think about him as well.

Rey
03-03-2012, 08:51 PM
Yes, the team is the only one who can ask him to restructure.

You said, "If this is correct I think it's obvious that they believe he is making too much money for his value and/or the good of the team"



No one knows, or has reported that the Texans have or will ask Demeco to restructure. Only that they believe

Their opinion has no reflection on their thoughts about Demeco Ryans. Asking Demeco to restructure means they still value him as a football player. Cutting him if he doesn't would clearly tell us what they think about him as well.


I'm talking about the team TK..

I couldn't care less about what pro football weekly thinks...

And I don't see how you call the second tweet an opinion when it was stated as matter of fact as it could be...

And I prefaced my comment with "If this is correct"...I have no clue what you are getting at...

TimeKiller
03-05-2012, 09:30 PM
If Demeco wanted more playing time he should cover kicks and punts. He's not getting back on 3rd downs anytime soon. Personally, I feel he has a place on the team and a role to play on the field, on the sidelines, in the locker room, in the film room, in practice, in front of cameras, etc...

If he's making about 8 a year for another 4 years ask him if he wants to make 4 for another 8 years. Job security as long as you don't fall off the map.

Doppelganger
03-05-2012, 09:55 PM
I say let his contract be for now. He was coming off a bad injury last year and we were told by Doc CnD that it would be 2 years before Meco was ready to really play. This year will tell us what we need to know about him.

Vinny
03-06-2012, 10:32 AM
If Demeco wanted more playing time he should cover kicks and punts. :mariopalm:

The1ApplePie
03-06-2012, 10:38 AM
Demeco may be be going through Jon Vilma syndrome.

Badass 4-3 MLB, mediocre 3-4 ILB

Vinny
03-06-2012, 10:39 AM
Demeco looked fine once he started to get past his rehab time. He wasn't 100% early on...I donno why so many fans can't digest this.

HOU-TEX
03-06-2012, 10:50 AM
Demeco may be be going through Jon Vilma syndrome.

Badass 4-3 MLB, mediocre 3-4 ILB

This is hogwash. D-Ryans was playing great the latter part of the season. Heck, I think he was about as productive as Cushing against the run the last 5-6 games. He's a thumper!

Texan_Bill
03-06-2012, 10:50 AM
Demeco looked fine once he started to get past his rehab time. He wasn't 100% early on...I donno why so many fans can't digest this.

Apparently no one saw that cumbersome brace on his elbow.

noxiousdog
03-06-2012, 11:42 AM
I can't digest it because I didn't see it. He had one good game against Carolina (8 tackles). Other than that he broke 6 tackles once, though that was against Baltimore in the playoffs but only 7.


This is coming from someone who has worn a DeMeco jersey since he was named starter. But he had 11 weeks with 4 tackles or less. That's awful for a linebacker. How awful? With 64 combined (tackles + assists) he was #72 last year.

And here it is by week:
6
1
6
4
4
4
0
4
2
3
4
3
6
8
5
4
4
7

I'd almost buy the better late in the year but he still went 5 and 4 in week 16 and vs Cinci in the playoffs. (I'm guessing he didn't play much against Tennessee.)

Anyway, point being, 6m for that little production is a problem. Ray Lewis is supposed to be washed up and got 95. Bart Scott is getting cut and had more tackles and 4.5 sacks.

I'd love him to be better, but we were skeptical of performance after an achilles injury. I have no problem with a restructure.

Vinny
03-06-2012, 12:49 PM
this is more of a gap control defense. Ryans used to be in a defense that absorbed all the blockers and let him run free to shoot gaps and make tackles all over the field. linebackers have more of a gap to control in this defense and players are asked to trust that the others are manning their gaps. I think the tackles are more evenly spread around in Wade's defense. To me, I saw flashes of the player I think he's capable of being at the end of the year....I'm not too worried about him.

Corrosion
03-06-2012, 12:51 PM
Demeco looked fine once he started to get past his rehab time. He wasn't 100% early on...I donno why so many fans can't digest this.

He did look much more fluid later in the season .... Started to look like himself before the injury ....


"His" play isnt the problem , its the fact that he's only on the field ~40% of the defensive snaps .... Because Cushing is a badmofo and .... Demeco isnt going to displace him as a pass rusher or in coverage when in nickle & dime packages meaning he's not going to increase that ~40% snap percentage.

A cap hit of roughly $8.5m is just too steep a price to pay for a guy who see's less than half the snaps.

This is less about Demeco and more about the guy's around him and the scheme.

Vinny
03-06-2012, 12:53 PM
He did look much more fluid later in the season .... Started to look like himself before the injury ....


"His" play isnt the problem , its the fact that he's only on the field ~40% of the defensive snaps .... Because Cushing is a badmofo and .... Demeco isnt going to displace him as a pass rusher or in coverage when in nickle & dime packages meaning he's not going to increase that ~40% snap percentage.

A cap hit of roughly $8.5m is just too steep a price to pay for a guy who see's less than half the snaps.

This is less about Demeco and more about the guy's around him and the scheme.Brian Urlacher plays the same role with the Bears now...he was a Pro Bowler last season. His tough play vs the run and forcing the offense into passing situations is seen as a plus (causing him to come off the field). Here it seems to be seen as a liability.

noxiousdog
03-06-2012, 02:25 PM
Brian Urlacher plays the same role with the Bears now...he was a Pro Bowler last season. His tough play vs the run and forcing the offense into passing situations is seen as a plus (causing him to come off the field). Here it seems to be seen as a liability.

If demeco had 100 tackles playing 40% of the snaps I wouldn't consider his salary to be a liability.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

Rey
03-06-2012, 03:25 PM
Brian Urlacher plays the same role with the Bears now...he was a Pro Bowler last season. His tough play vs the run and forcing the offense into passing situations is seen as a plus (causing him to come off the field). Here it seems to be seen as a liability.

Brian Urlacher had 100 tackles, 7 PD, 3 INTS,

Demeco had 60 tackles, 3 PD, 0 INTS

While they may be playing similar roles as 1st and 2nd down run stuffing LB's, Urlacher was clearly more productive.

Maybe Demeco is better this upcoming year, but I don't think he will approach what Urlacher did.

badboy
03-06-2012, 03:34 PM
Brian Urlacher had 100 tackles, 7 PD, 3 INTS,

Demeco had 60 tackles, 3 PD, 0 INTS

While they may be playing similar roles as 1st and 2nd down run stuffing LB's, Urlacher was clearly more productive.

Maybe Demeco is better this upcoming year, but I don't think he will approach what Urlacher did.

Don't remember Urlacher recovering from arm injury?

Rey
03-06-2012, 03:43 PM
Don't remember Urlacher recovering from arm injury?

If I'm not mistaken CnD has posted information regarding Demeco's Achilles injury and if I remember correctly it said that the 1st year back from injury the player normally has their best performance. It then goes down hill from that.

I think the Elbow affected him some, but the long term affects on his achilles is what I'd be worried about.

infantrycak
03-06-2012, 04:38 PM
If I'm not mistaken CnD has posted information regarding Demeco's Achilles injury and if I remember correctly it said that the 1st year back from injury the player normally has their best performance. It then goes down hill from that.

I think the Elbow affected him some, but the long term affects on his achilles is what I'd be worried about.

That was on Schaub's lisfranc injury I believe.

DeMeco's elbow injury clearly was the bigger issue last season especially as the season went on. His sideline to sideline movement looked excellent at the end of the season but he still could barely move his arm..

Rey
03-06-2012, 04:59 PM
That was on Schaub's lisfranc injury I believe.

DeMeco's elbow injury clearly was the bigger issue last season especially as the season went on. His sideline to sideline movement looked excellent at the end of the season but he still could barely move his arm..

Entirely possible that I have the two confused...

Corrosion
03-06-2012, 05:08 PM
Brian Urlacher plays the same role with the Bears now...he was a Pro Bowler last season. His tough play vs the run and forcing the offense into passing situations is seen as a plus (causing him to come off the field). Here it seems to be seen as a liability.

I dont see Demeco's play as a liability at all .... Just attempting to rationalize the situation surrounding his contract. Its like other people who say Cody should be replaced .... but wait , this was the #4 run defense in the NFL , and played even better in the playoffs , Cody and Demeco Ryans are a huge part of that success.

If the Texans werent up against the cap I dont think we're having this conversation. Ryans is just the most obvious contract to free up money for immediate use to retain other FA's.

thunderkyss
03-06-2012, 06:17 PM
Demeco looked fine once he started to get past his rehab time. He wasn't 100% early on...I donno why so many fans can't digest this.

It's the money. They can't get past the money.

Dutchrudder
03-06-2012, 06:20 PM
Apparently no one saw that cumbersome brace on his elbow.

Elbow Brace? All I saw was a battering ram...

thunderkyss
03-06-2012, 06:23 PM
"His" play isnt the problem , its the fact that he's only on the field ~40% of the defensive snaps .... Because Cushing is a badmofo and .... Demeco isnt going to displace him as a pass rusher or in coverage when in nickle & dime packages meaning he's not going to increase that ~40% snap percentage.


We'll be playing better offenses in 2012. Probably won't be in as many definite passing situations... 3rd & long... 2nd & long. Probably won't be bringing in that safety in Nickle situations. He'll be on the field for more snaps.

thunderkyss
03-06-2012, 06:29 PM
If the Texans werent up against the cap I dont think we're having this conversation. Ryans is just the most obvious contract to free up money for immediate use to retain other FA's.

Agreed. Still may not be a problem, if he's being asked to restructure. If we're changing his $6M salary into a signing bonus, dropping his salary to $1M or $2M, giving him a $4M cap instead of an $8M cap.... it's all good.

amazing80
03-06-2012, 06:33 PM
Demeco is not the problem, his salary is, the people defending him are seeing the players and plays with their red tinted glasses on. I LOVE Ryans, BUT I would make him take a 50% pay decrease to stay here. He does not WARRANT that contract. Brian Urlacher EARNED his money over YEARS of that high production, ryans has not. AND Urlacher actually earned his paycheck last season. I love Demeco but he has to take a pay cut, its just business

Corrosion
03-06-2012, 06:41 PM
We'll be playing better offenses in 2012. Probably won't be in as many definite passing situations... 3rd & long... 2nd & long. Probably won't be bringing in that safety in Nickle situations. He'll be on the field for more snaps.



Ryans wasnt great in coverage prior to his achillies injury. I dont see Wade changing his scheme , if they are in nickle the extra DB replaces the MLB.
Personel depends on down and distance.

I think the only way Ryans stays on the field in those 2nd/3rd and long situations is if Cushing gets injured , and I dont think any of us want to see that.


If they see fewer 2nd/3rd and long situations , sure he will be on the field more .... that probably translates to teams putting up more points and fewer W's for our Texans (unless they can out score teams).

It's the money. They can't get past the money.

In a way yes .... but like I said above: If the Texans arent up against the salary cap struggling to find money to resign their key FA's , we arent having this conversation.
Ryans contract is one of the few thats large enough that a restructure would net them significant cap space.

Thats no knock on Ryans or his play at all .... Just simply looking for the most reasonable options to free up that capspace needed to keep Foster , MW , Myers , Briesel & Dreessen as well as sign any draft picks.

Pointing out he's on the field ~40% of the time is just rationalizing the cost for the production.

Rey
03-06-2012, 06:45 PM
We'll be playing better offenses in 2012. Probably won't be in as many definite passing situations... 3rd & long... 2nd & long. Probably won't be bringing in that safety in Nickle situations. He'll be on the field for more snaps.

I think bumping Glover down as a LB type player helped our pass defense out a lot.

I don't see the reward of leaving Demeco in third & long. Even if he gets back to full strength, he's never been great against the pass. I'd much rather have glover playing that nickel LB position with McCain in the slot than any other line-up I've seen.

I still don't think Demeco will see many 3rd and longs unless Cushing is hurt or needs a breather...

Corrosion
03-06-2012, 06:47 PM
Agreed. Still may not be a problem, if he's being asked to restructure. If we're changing his $6M salary into a signing bonus, dropping his salary to $1M or $2M, giving him a $4M cap instead of an $8M cap.... it's all good.

You posted this one after my last reply .... But thats what Im getting at. Just using his contract to free up cap money to use elsewhere. No knock at all on Demeco ... its just the most obvious contract to rework to achieve the teams goals.

By the way , his cap hit is $8.2m and thats without any incentives (if there are any) according to the calculations I did when I first mentioned him being a candidate for restructure several months ago.

I think bumping Glover down as a LB type player helped our pass defense out a lot.

I don't see the reward of leaving Demeco in third & long. Even if he gets back to full strength, he's never been great against the pass. I'd much rather have glover playing that nickel LB position with McCain in the slot than any other line-up I've seen.

I still don't think Demeco will see many 3rd and longs unless Cushing is hurt or needs a breather...

I agree with that 101%. That was one of the best adjustments Wade Phillips made to the Texans defense ...

thunderkyss
03-06-2012, 07:07 PM
Demeco is not the problem, his salary is, the people defending him are seeing the players and plays with their red tinted glasses on. I LOVE Ryans, BUT I would make him take a 50% pay decrease to stay here. He does not WARRANT that contract. Brian Urlacher EARNED his money over YEARS of that high production, ryans has not. AND Urlacher actually earned his paycheck last season. I love Demeco but he has to take a pay cut, its just business

Imagine if the Bears thought like that after the 2009 season After extending him in 2008 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3499320). Or after the 2004 season.

thunderkyss
03-06-2012, 07:12 PM
Ryans wasnt great in coverage prior to his achillies injury. I dont see Wade changing his scheme , if they are in nickle the extra DB replaces the MLB.
Personel depends on down and distance.



Or.... we can take Cody off the field like we did last year.

Corrosion
03-06-2012, 07:24 PM
Or.... we can take Cody off the field like we did last year.

Often times they both came off the field with Antonio Smith moving inside , while MW was healthy he would move to more of a 4/3 DE role. After MW's injury Barwin became the DE while A.Smith moved inside.

Rey
03-20-2012, 10:49 PM
Cool thread to read through in light of what has recently went down.