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Dutchrudder
02-15-2012, 08:27 AM
Didn't see this posted elsewhere, but it is important. Remember, this is 2011 money, so each team can roll this into their 2012 cap to increase their cap space. If we assume the cap in 2012 is 120 million, then the Jaguars will have up to 151.66 million to spend this year. Their total roster costs 89.34 million before removing 2012 free agents. That's a lot of money to spend on some big name free agents!

From Mike Florio:
[Editor's note: With teams now able to carry over their excess cap space from one year to the next, here's a look at each team's remaining 2011 cap space, as of February 12, 2012.]

Jaguars: $31.66 million.

Broncos: $27.88 million.

Buccaneers: $25.05 million.

Chiefs: $24.01 million.

Seahawks: $21.27 million.

Bills: $19.29 million.

Bengals: $17.59 million.

Cowboys: $17.14 million.

49ers: $16.87 million.

Redskins: $13.6 million.

Eagles: $11.01 million.

Dolphins: $9.05 million.

Browns: $8.98 million.

Jets: $8.39 million.

Titans: $8.11 million.

Bears: $7.74 million.

Cardinals: $7.04 million.

Patriots: $6.66 million.

Ravens: $6.18 million.

Packers: $5.48 million.

Saints: $4.22 million.

Rams: $3.5 million.

Raiders: $3.23 million.

Panthers: $2.8 million.

Colts: $2.5 million.

Chargers: $2.1 million.

Vikings: $1.95 million.

Lions: $1.47 million.

Texans: $1.08 million.

Giants: $1.06 million.

Falcons: $747,000.

Steelers: $506,000.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/12/remaining-2011-cap-space-by-team/

thunderkyss
02-15-2012, 08:39 AM
That's a lot of money to spend on some big name free agents!

From Mike Florio:


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/12/remaining-2011-cap-space-by-team/

What do you think of this years free agent (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&yr=2012) class?

Looking at the list, removing the players I think are going to sign with their own teams, I don't think much of it.

Aside from getting Peyton & Reggie Wayne (& Peyton being 85-90%) I couldn't care less what the Jags do with that money.

Another thing, that $1M can be added to the estimated $16M-$18M Mario made & we've got at least $17M to sign free agents.

Dutchrudder
02-15-2012, 09:04 AM
What do you think of this years free agent (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&yr=2012) class?

Looking at the list, removing the players I think are going to sign with their own teams, I don't think much of it.

Aside from getting Peyton & Reggie Wayne (& Peyton being 85-90%) I couldn't care less what the Jags do with that money.

Another thing, that $1M can be added to the estimated $16M-$18M Mario made & we've got at least $17M to sign free agents.

There is a lot of talent in the free agent class, and I think a decent team with a lot of money could clean up if they get a few of those guys. Whereever Peyton goes, I expect Reggie Wayne to go. That's two starters assuming Peyton can play. Dallas Clark is likely to be cut, and I would imagine he may stick with Peyton too. Garcon and Mathis are also free agents and could join their teammates. Going to a team like the Jags would be easy for all of those guys due to their enormous cap space, so if the Jags got a few of them, I would not be a happy Texan. It just depends on where the chips fall, but if the Jags become this year's "Dream Team" I'll be surprised.

Goatcheese
02-15-2012, 12:12 PM
So much for all the reports that Houston was way over the cap last year? :toropalm:

Jackie Chiles
02-15-2012, 12:46 PM
So much for all the reports that Houston was way over the cap last year? :toropalm:

Yeah I get a kick every time I hear John McClain say we were $20 mil over the cap last year. Ummm, why do they even call it a salary cap then? Its like that Seinfeld scene when he is trying to get a rental car.

John McClain: "The Texans were $20 million over the cap last year."

Fan: "But the salary cap keeps teams from spending over the salary cap. Thats why you have the salary cap."

John McClain: "I know why we have a salary cap."

Fan: "I don't think ya do."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSZYsyrP3Co

Dutchrudder
02-15-2012, 12:48 PM
So much for all the reports that Houston was way over the cap last year? :toropalm:

That has only come out of Mr. John McClain's mouth as far as I know, and he claims the Texans were 20 million over the cap last year. John McClain has a reputation for being incorrect on all sorts of things and can be considered an unreliable source at this point. When he first said that, I saw it posted around this board several times, but no one had any actual info to back it up, just his quote. I would gladly put money down that says the Texans are not anywhere close to 20 million over the cap.

The Texans' 1.08 million sounds reasonable, and it makes sense given the reports of them being 2.2 million under the cap before the Mason trade and the signing of Turk, Delhomme and Garcia.

thunderkyss
02-15-2012, 04:02 PM
Yeah I get a kick every time I hear John McClain say we were $20 mil over the cap last year. Ummm, why do they even call it a salary cap then?

But teams can & sometimes do go over the cap. But we don't have enough of the type of players (or contracts I know of) that would earn escalators & the like to push us $20M over.

Let's say Schaub was due a $5M bonus for starting 6 games, Barwin was due $12M for 10 sacks, etc.... that money would be applied to the cap at the end of the year, I think. If that puts you over the cap, the amount over is subtracted from the following year.

ChampionTexan
02-15-2012, 04:20 PM
But teams can & sometimes do go over the cap. But we don't have enough of the type of players (or contracts I know of) that would earn escalators & the like to push us $20M over.

Let's say Schaub was due a $5M bonus for starting 6 games, Barwin was due $12M for 10 sacks, etc.... that money would be applied to the cap at the end of the year, I think. If that puts you over the cap, the amount over is subtracted from the following year.

If it's "Likely to be earned", the incentive is included in the current year's cap. If it's not "Likely to be earned", it does not count against the current year's cap.

"Likely to be earned" is simply a function of whether or not the player achieved the target in the previous season. Since Schaub did start 6 games in 2010, his bonus would apply against the 2011 cap from day one. Since Barwin did not record 10 sacks in 2010, his bonus would not apply to the cap at all for 2010. Any likely to be earned incentives that are not earned are credited to the following season. Any not likely to be earned incentives that are earned are charged to the following season. There is no retroactive adjustment in either case.

There's some additional rules for rookie year incentive clauses, and veteran incentive clauses where the veteran didn't play the previous season (Peyton Manning in 2012 for example), but that's the basics.

thunderkyss
02-15-2012, 04:53 PM
If it's "Likely to be earned", the incentive is included in the current year's cap. If it's not "Likely to be earned", it does not count against the current year's cap.

"Likely to be earned" is simply a function of whether or not the player achieved the target in the previous season. Since Schaub did start 6 games in 2010, his bonus would apply against the 2011 cap from day one. Since Barwin did not record 10 sacks in 2010, his bonus would not apply to the cap at all for 2010. Any likely to be earned incentives that are not earned are credited to the following season. Any not likely to be earned incentives that are earned are charged to the following season. There is no retroactive adjustment in either case.

There's some additional rules for rookie year incentive clauses, and veteran incentive clauses where the veteran didn't play the previous season (Peyton Manning in 2012 for example), but that's the basics.

Thank you for the details.. but I think the point is the same.. it is possible for a team to go over the salary cap. Very unlikely for the Texans, especially with the way the season turned out. Everyone but Jjo who could have had a contract with some off the wall escalator missed significant time & therefore unlikely to hit any "Unlikely to be earned" incentives.

hobie
02-15-2012, 04:57 PM
Haynesworth had been scheduled to count $7.2 million against the 2012 salary cap. By releasing him, the Bucs will not have any cap charge for Haynesworth. With leftover money carrying over from 2011, the Bucs now have approximately $67 million in cap space.

Just read that on ESPN... $67 million in cap space... DAMN !!

Dutchrudder
02-15-2012, 05:32 PM
Haynesworth had been scheduled to count $7.2 million against the 2012 salary cap. By releasing him, the Bucs will not have any cap charge for Haynesworth. With leftover money carrying over from 2011, the Bucs now have approximately $67 million in cap space.

Just read that on ESPN... $67 million in cap space... DAMN !!

Sounds about right. They have a few free agents coming off the books as well. Lots of money to throw at top free agents. The Bucs could buy Mario, Nicks, Colston, and Carr, and still have money left over for more depth. Once one of those big names picks a team with a lot of cap space, it will be like the Philadelphia Eagles last year, and they will be able to bring in top talent with all that money to spend. Not necessarily going to translate to wins, but it sure will stop blackouts from occurring.

Maddict5
02-16-2012, 11:11 AM
i think some ppl are getting confused about what mcclain was saying...its not like i listen to mcclain that regularly but anytime i have and hes brought that up, im sure hes phrased it that the texans have SPENT more than the cap by 20m...which is different than being over the cap

kiwitexansfan
02-16-2012, 12:13 PM
Didn't see this posted elsewhere, but it is important. Remember, this is 2011 money, so each team can roll this into their 2012 cap to increase their cap space. If we assume the cap in 2012 is 120 million, then the Jaguars will have up to 151.66 million to spend this year. Their total roster costs 89.34 million before removing 2012 free agents. That's a lot of money to spend on some big name free agents!



So teams can use any open cap space from the previous year to go over the cap the next year?

But wouldn't that lead to the team being over the cap the year after that? Or would teams MEGA front loading their contracts?

Goatcheese
02-16-2012, 12:26 PM
So teams can use any open cap space from the previous year to go over the cap the next year?

But wouldn't that lead to the team being over the cap the year after that? Or would teams MEGA front loading their contracts?

I was thinking the same thing.

Another problem that some teams are going to run into is that they have to spend XX% of the cap each year. If they're consistently under the cap it will keep rolling over to the point where they would have to spend XX% of a potentially huge number that most small market teams can't afford. Or did they put provisions in to prevent that?

Rey
02-16-2012, 01:01 PM
I've heard Carolina as a possible landing spot for Mario...How can they sign him, but we can't...

Dutchrudder
02-16-2012, 01:35 PM
I was thinking the same thing.

Another problem that some teams are going to run into is that they have to spend XX% of the cap each year. If they're consistently under the cap it will keep rolling over to the point where they would have to spend XX% of a potentially huge number that most small market teams can't afford. Or did they put provisions in to prevent that?

According to Andrew Brandt: "The salary floor is based on the NFL's cap and not the team's rolled over "cap"

Dutchrudder
02-16-2012, 01:38 PM
i think some ppl are getting confused about what mcclain was saying...its not like i listen to mcclain that regularly but anytime i have and hes brought that up, im sure hes phrased it that the texans have SPENT more than the cap by 20m...which is different than being over the cap

If the cap is 120m and we spent 119m, how can you possibly make the statement that "the Texans spent 20m more than the cap?" Explain.

Dutchrudder
02-16-2012, 01:59 PM
So teams can use any open cap space from the previous year to go over the cap the next year?

Yep. They aren't required to do it, but they can.

But wouldn't that lead to the team being over the cap the year after that? Or would teams MEGA front loading their contracts?

To the first question, it could, which is why the GMs need to be aware of their cap situations for years in advance. They already do that now and know what is coming down the pipe for future contracts. Just have to plan accordingly.

Frontloading might be the preferable way to go. Ideally you want to use up the cap in the current year and live within your means. However, I have been informed that cap rollover will go on for years. So if the Jags don't spend any of that 31 million extra in 2012, they can roll over all of it to 2013 and so forth. Eventually they will want to cash in on that saved up cap space, but the only limitations on that will be the cap floor in 2013 and beyond.

So for example, let's suppose the Jags roster stays at 89mill this year and the NFL salary cap is 120mill. They have 151mill in potential capspace in 2012 thanks to their 2011 rollover, but let's assume they don't use it. They can roll over 62 million into 2013. If the cap raises to 130 million in 2013, they will have 192 million available in cap space, but they still need to meet the 90% minimum (is it 90% or is it higher?). So they would have to get up to 117 million at the very least in 2013.

Maddict5
02-16-2012, 07:33 PM
If the cap is 120m and we spent 119m, how can you possibly make the statement that "the Texans spent 20m more than the cap?" Explain.

no what they're saying is our cap figure is 119m (in this example) ie 1m less than the cap. however due to signing bonuses etc, the cap figure and the actual amount paid arent always the same

simple example- if a player signs a 25m contract over 4 yrs with a 5m signing bonus (ie 5m /yr salary + signing bonus)

their cap # in the first yr is 6.25m-->5m salary plus 5m signing bonus prorated over 4 yrs of deal =1.25m/yr

however their actual salary in the first year is 10m. (5m signing bonus + 5m salary)

so the team spent 3.75m over the cap figure of this player in yr 1. cash over cap 101.

thats what mcclain means when he says they spent (actually physically paid over 20m) more than the cap last yr

thunderkyss
02-16-2012, 08:09 PM
thats what mcclain means when he says they spent (actually physically paid over 20m) more than the cap last yr

That McNair is such a cheap so-&-so.......

Dutchrudder
02-20-2012, 01:20 PM
no what they're saying is our cap figure is 119m (in this example) ie 1m less than the cap. however due to signing bonuses etc, the cap figure and the actual amount paid arent always the same

simple example- if a player signs a 25m contract over 4 yrs with a 5m signing bonus (ie 5m /yr salary + signing bonus)

their cap # in the first yr is 6.25m-->5m salary plus 5m signing bonus prorated over 4 yrs of deal =1.25m/yr

however their actual salary in the first year is 10m. (5m signing bonus + 5m salary)

so the team spent 3.75m over the cap figure of this player in yr 1. cash over cap 101.

thats what mcclain means when he says they spent (actually physically paid over 20m) more than the cap last yr

Sorry, meant to reply to this earlier but forgot.

Let me spare you the trouble of defending John McClain's incorrect comment. Here it is from the horse's mouth:

As I wrote in the first part of my 11-part series evaluating the Texans, the team’s top priority will be to re-sign outside linebacker Mario Williams.

They also want to sign running back Arian Foster, who’ll be a restricted free agent, to a long-term deal.

Remember, the Texans spent about $20 million more than the $120 million salary cap. Estimates are that it won’t increase to more than $124 million. That means the Texans will have to get under the cap by March 13, and then they won’t have a lot of room to operate.

General manager Rick Smith and director of football administration Chris Olsen are going to have to become magicians to make cap space appear.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/01/mcclain-tough-decisions-await-texans/

His comments in context from January 24th of 2012 and he has mentioned it a few times since then in tweets. There is no defending it, he simply wrote about the Texans cap situation and gives the assertion that the Texans spent 20 million dollars more than the 120 cap from last year. It's indefensible at this point, and makes no sense given that every other competent source on the subject has the Texans pegged around 1-2 million under the cap at year end of 2011.

What you're saying in your post is accurate, a team certainly can spend more money in a year than they actually count towards the cap, but that's not what McClain is saying because he is clearly talking about cap hits. His comments are categorically incorrect, his information is likely wrong, and all this has done is start another unfounded rumor that gets spread by readers who trust him. It needs to stop, his articles need to be taken with a grain of salt because it is clear he has little understanding of many of the details of off the field.

thunderkyss
02-20-2012, 01:27 PM
What you're saying in your post is accurate, a team certainly can spend more money in a year than they actually count towards the cap, but that's not what McClain is saying because he is clearly talking about cap hits. His comments are categorically incorrect, his information is likely wrong, and all this has done is start another unfounded rumor that gets spread by readers who trust him. It needs to stop, his articles need to be taken with a grain of salt because it is clear he has little understanding of many of the details of off the field.

But he wrote an 11 part series.

:confused:

Maddict5
02-20-2012, 02:01 PM
Sorry, meant to reply to this earlier but forgot.

Let me spare you the trouble of defending John McClain's incorrect comment. Here it is from the horse's mouth:



http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/01/mcclain-tough-decisions-await-texans/

His comments in context from January 24th of 2012 and he has mentioned it a few times since then in tweets. There is no defending it, he simply wrote about the Texans cap situation and gives the assertion that the Texans spent 20 million dollars more than the 120 cap from last year. It's indefensible at this point, and makes no sense given that every other competent source on the subject has the Texans pegged around 1-2 million under the cap at year end of 2011.

What you're saying in your post is accurate, a team certainly can spend more money in a year than they actually count towards the cap, but that's not what McClain is saying because he is clearly talking about cap hits. His comments are categorically incorrect, his information is likely wrong, and all this has done is start another unfounded rumor that gets spread by readers who trust him. It needs to stop, his articles need to be taken with a grain of salt because it is clear he has little understanding of many of the details of off the field.

yup hes a dumbass... i never heard him insinuate that the cash & the cap are the same thing like he did in that article. like i said, i only listen occassionally luckily

Dutchrudder
02-20-2012, 02:32 PM
But he wrote an 11 part series.

:confused:

I'm not following, what are you talking about?

thunderkyss
02-20-2012, 04:51 PM
I'm not following, what are you talking about?

I just thought it was funny the way he threw that out there as if it gave any more credibility to his work.
As I wrote in the first part of my 11-part series (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/01/mcclain-tough-decisions-await-texans/) evaluating the Texans, the teamís top priority will be to re-sign outside linebacker Mario Williams.