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gafftop
03-07-2011, 10:19 AM
you could sign Asomugha? Trade Mario for draft choices or a combination of draft choices and maybe a solid veteran defensive player. With the money saved sign Nnamdi. I have never been a Mario fan, but I still thinks this makes sense. The only thing is you may not get much for Mario, but even if you don't it frees up money to sign NA. Sorry if brought up already. We also need a 2 or 1A wide receiver to go along with Andre. thanks

disaacks3
03-07-2011, 10:34 AM
There's no guarantee that Mario will succeed as a 3-4 DE. The Bruce Smith interview that was referenced on here earlier scared the beejeesus out of anyone who's seen Mario play.

I'd trade him in a heartbeat if it either:

A) Assured me someone like Aso

B) Got me moved up in the draft to take the player (like Miller) that we wanted.

There are MANY 4-3 teams that would give plenty for him, he IS a 4-3 DE Pro-Bowler (and deservedly so).

dalemurphy
03-07-2011, 10:36 AM
you could sign Asomugha? Trade Mario for draft choices or a combination of draft choices and maybe a solid veteran defensive player. With the money saved sign Nnamdi. I have never been a Mario fan, but I still thinks this makes sense. The only thing is you may not get much for Mario, but even if you don't it frees up money to sign NA. Sorry if brought up already. We also need a 2 or 1A wide receiver to go along with Andre. thanks

Mario is going to count about $17 million against the cap this year, his final year under the current contract. If he's traded, the Texans cap will still be impacted by about $8 million as a result of his signing bonus. The most effective way to create room under the cap with Mario is to re-sign him to an extension. I'm not neccessarily in favor of giving him a huge deal, but, from a cap perspective, he could be retained and the Texans could drop their cap number by close to $10 million the first year or two of a six or seven year deal.

Rest easy, though, because I think the Texans have room under the cap to operate and are planning on taking a run at Nnambi, among others.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 10:56 AM
Would you trade Mario if it meant........ you could sign Asomugha?

I think everyone here will be willing to trade Mario....... or any other person on this team, as long as it makes the team better.

Ole Miss Texan
03-07-2011, 11:17 AM
I'd have a hard time doing it. We have way too many question marks in the front seven and well, the defense in general.

I think it's fair to question how well Mario may play in the 3-4 but I have more questions about every single other player on our defense.

Antonio Smith? I love him on this team but he's not exactly the bees knees. pass rushing situations he'll likely move inside in a 4-3... without Mario and Antonio at DE... who is it?

Whose our NT? Earl Mitchell/Shaun Cody

OLB - How will Barwin bounce back from that ankle injury and will that be a recurring problem? Whose our other OLB? Probably 1st or 2nd round rookie.

ILB - How will Demeco come back from injury? Sharpton could be seeing significant playing time early in the season. Is Cushing the other ILB? Looks like so far he is - will he be a probowler there?

Secondary - Alright we've got Asomugha. Our secondary should be much improved but I severely question the pass rush we will be getting. Quin may be moved to Safety? Allen/Jackson as the other CBs? Pick up a SS in the draft I guess.

I would love Aso for this team but with trading Mario we'd have additional holes to fill. We'd "clear" some cap space but we'd need more players to sign and that just creates more burden on the cap. Mario is virtually an every down player and it's unlikey we would find 1 player to replace him... as much as some dislike Mario. If we trade him for draft picks, the CBA is going to have to get done in the next few weeks as the draft is next month... otherwise those picks will be for 2012. Or if we do get it done in time for 2011 draft we could have 3 Rookies playing in the front 7 and 2 players coming off of severe injuries.

Fun to think about but I don't see this happening.

BullNation4Life
03-07-2011, 11:20 AM
Um, nope....

IDEXAN
03-07-2011, 11:32 AM
There are MANY 4-3 teams that would give plenty for him, he IS a 4-3 DE Pro-Bowler (and deservedly so).
You nailed it disaacks3 ! We know what we've got in Mario now, but we don't know what we'll have with him in our new 3-4 ? If he's less of a player, we lose leverage in a potential trade.

EllisUnit
03-07-2011, 11:52 AM
:mariopalm: and why dont we trade Schaub for a WR. come on Mario WHEN healthy is one of the best most athletic DEs in the NFL. I say he deserves a shot he may get even better in a 3-4. You never know. Plus i think that will just weaken our defensive line and that is one thing we certainly dont need.

Ryan
03-07-2011, 12:38 PM
Mario is gonna be standing up as well in obvious passing situations to rush the QB most likely...i think he has plenty of opportunity to succeed here, i don't think it's worth it to trade him. He has the respect of every offensive coach and player he lines up against and is someone you have to gameplan for.

Goatcheese
03-07-2011, 12:47 PM
Mario is the type of elite player that you build an entire defense around. When you get a guy like that you don't trade him away with out an incredibly epic reason.

The Texans would have to get a blockbuster type of deal to even think about it.

What their focus should be on is finding other quality players so Mario doesn't have to be the passrush by himself and can actually sit out a game when he's hurt instead of playing entire seasons crippled by injuries.

gary
03-07-2011, 01:02 PM
I'd only do this if you got back a legit vet to take his place and some draft picks otherwise you would just be opening up one void to fill another JMO.

2slik4u
03-07-2011, 01:28 PM
:mariopalm: and why dont we trade Schaub for a WR. come on Mario WHEN healthy is one of the best most athletic DEs in the NFL. I say he deserves a shot he may get even better in a 3-4. You never know. Plus i think that will just weaken our defensive line and that is one thing we certainly dont need.

I cant believe Im actually agreeing with EllisUnit.......but I agree.

disaacks3
03-07-2011, 01:33 PM
:mariopalm: and why dont we trade Schaub for a WR. come on Mario WHEN healthy is one of the best most athletic DEs in the NFL. I say he deserves a shot he may get even better in a 3-4. You never know. Plus i think that will just weaken our defensive line and that is one thing we certainly dont need. Better? Really? Care to name several "prototype" 4-3 DEs who suddenly got "better" in a 3-4? Bruce Smith was told that he'd likely have had 100+ more sacks in his career in a 4-3. I like Mario, but he's no Bruce Smith.

I'd only do this if you got back a legit vet to take his place and some draft picks otherwise you would just be opening up one void to fill another JMO. Agreed, but a vet at 3-4 DE is a completely different spot than what Mario has played thus far.

The market would likely never be higher for Mario than it is right now. Those of us who worried about going to a 3-4 knew this all up front. Suppose that Mario isn't willing to put in the extra work required of a 3-4 DE? His value will plummet if his production drops like a rock...which is entirely possible.

I'd keep him forever in a 4-3, but this is literally a make/break season for the Texans and he's never shown the abilities that you generally look for in a 3-4 DE. I wish him all the luck in the world if we keep him, but look for his production (and happiness) to fall.

TexCanada
03-07-2011, 01:44 PM
I wish him all the luck in the world if we keep him, but look for his production (and happiness) to fall.

I don't agree with this. Phillips has spoken a number of times about adapting a defense around its best players. He will find ways to create match-ups in order for Mario (and our defense) to succeed. Plus, we will likely be in a 4-3 in most third down passing scenarios anyway.

I think this situation is WAY more about Mario then it is about what type of defense we are playing. If Mario commits himself to getting better and playing for the logo, then he will be highly successful in anything he does. If he decides to be selfish/lazy, then he will fail.

gary
03-07-2011, 01:49 PM
Better? Really? Care to name several "prototype" 4-3 DEs who suddenly got "better" in a 3-4? Bruce Smith was told that he'd likely have had 100+ more sacks in his career in a 4-3. I like Mario, but he's no Bruce Smith.

Agreed, but a vet at 3-4 DE is a completely different spot than what Mario has played thus far.

The market would likely never be higher for Mario than it is right now. Those of us who worried about going to a 3-4 knew this all up front. Suppose that Mario isn't willing to put in the extra work required of a 3-4 DE? His value will plummet if his production drops like a rock...which is entirely possible.

I'd keep him forever in a 4-3, but this is literally a make/break season for the Texans and he's never shown the abilities that you generally look for in a 3-4 DE. I wish him all the luck in the world if we keep him, but look for his production (and happiness) to fall.Right, but if the Texans trade Mario they should at least get back in return what I offered above or maybe slightly less than that.

Wolf6151
03-07-2011, 02:04 PM
Everyone on the team, including Andre, is tradeable if the offer is high enough. It all depends on what's offered. For Mario maybe a 1st and 2nd this year along with next years 1st as well, from a bad team so that they're high picks.

Ole Miss Texan
03-07-2011, 02:05 PM
I think there is way too much simplification going on regarding 4-3 and 3-4 defensive schemes, like they're rigid, set, structured fronts. When in reality, I think Wade can be very creative and fluid with the fronts.

As someone just mentioned, it sounds like we're going to be running a 4-3 during passing situations. Mario as an end, Barwin or another pass rusher likely as the other end, Antonio Smith moving inside to DT. So yes, we know what we have with Mario at 4-3 and we're still going to be having him do that. Wade is also going to be creative and put Mario in situations to succeed. Not every 3-4 DE is asked to do the same thing as all the other 3-4 DEs... I think Mario will be fine.


As far as us losing value or leverage if Mario "fails" as a 3-4 DE... I don't think that's entirely true. It may limit the number of teams that would pursue him but if he still performs well in 4-3 situations I don't think those 4-3 teams would be less interested in him.

gafftop
03-07-2011, 02:14 PM
One of my main concerns and i think one of the main problems in getting something in a trade for Mario is injury concerns. Every year he has "something" that causes him to play below optimum levels. This along with the change in defensive systems, his salary, and his inconsistent effort makes me want to make a trade. I do want it to be a good or at least a fair trade. I also think another year of injuries will lower his trade value. I think it is easier to get a d lineman than a true shutdown corner. IF Mario could play up to his potential then I would not be proposing this trade, but due to injuries he never has. I think you help yourself multiple ways with this trade. Along with the shutdown corner and a proven d lineman you either move up in the draft or get additional quality draft choices. I am afraid next year we will have a repeat of the Carr/Kubiak incident where Kubiak realizes Carr isn't the one and then gets nothing for Carr. I could easily see this happening with Mario/Wade.

gafftop
03-07-2011, 02:16 PM
Everyone on the team, including Andre, is tradeable if the offer is high enough. It all depends on what's offered. For Mario maybe a 1st and 2nd this year along with next years 1st as well, from a bad team so that they're high picks.

I think we over value Mario here in Houston.

rush2112mn
03-07-2011, 02:17 PM
I want to see what he does under Wade Phillips first....lets see what Wade can do with him...that is my opinion......

gary
03-07-2011, 02:18 PM
The question is as always, what would be the proper return for a Probowler like Mario when healthy? And I am sure everyone has different opinions on this matter.

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2011, 02:24 PM
I want to see what he does under Wade Phillips first....lets see what Wade can do with him...that is my opinion......

The problem is if he doesn't perform well in this system, he loses trade value.

Personally, I think that he'll do well in the new system.

Ole Miss Texan
03-07-2011, 02:26 PM
The problem is if he doesn't perform well in this system, he loses trade value.

Personally, I think that he'll do well in the new system.
Would he lose value to teams that run a 4-3? I think it would only limit the number of teams that would want him.

gary
03-07-2011, 02:27 PM
Almost no one is a keeper if the price is right only though.

gafftop
03-07-2011, 02:38 PM
Mario is not a pro bowler. We would not be having this discussion if he were a young Julius Peppers or a John Abrahms. What could the Rockets gotten for Yao 3 years ago, what can we get now. The Patriots are constantly rebuilding. They trade their guys while they can get more than what they are worth. I believe Mario will be worth far less next year than what he is worth now. Maybe all he is worth now is a 2nd round draft choice and a journeyman d lineman in which case you keep him and hope. Believe me I hope I am wrong about Mario's future production.

JB
03-07-2011, 02:41 PM
Mario is not a pro bowler. We would not be having this discussion if he were a young Julius Peppers or a John Abrahms. What could the Rockets gotten for Yao 3 years ago, what can we get now. The Patriots are constantly rebuilding. They trade their guys while they can get more than what they are worth. I believe Mario will be worth far less next year than what he is worth now. Maybe all he is worth now is a 2nd round draft choice and a journeyman d lineman in which case you keep him and hope. Believe me I hope I am wrong about Mario's future production.

Really?

gary
03-07-2011, 02:46 PM
Mario is not a pro bowler. We would not be having this discussion if he were a young Julius Peppers or a John Abrahms. What could the Rockets gotten for Yao 3 years ago, what can we get now. The Patriots are constantly rebuilding. They trade their guys while they can get more than what they are worth. I believe Mario will be worth far less next year than what he is worth now. Maybe all he is worth now is a 2nd round draft choice and a journeyman d lineman in which case you keep him and hope. Believe me I hope I am wrong about Mario's future production.He is when healthy. Sorry. And, what do you base his play on? Hopefully not just sacks because there is more to a solid DE than just sacks. He is totally a force to be dealt with though when playing at a top level for sure and his run defense is underrated.

Ole Miss Texan
03-07-2011, 02:54 PM
Mario is not a pro bowler.
Not only was he voted to the Pro Bowl in 2008 and 2009 he was snubbed (an alternate) during 2007. Coincidentally he was named First Team All Pro during '07 when he recorded 14 sacks on the season.

Although I don't believe Sacks should be the end all be all measurement when discussing DEs... he has been one of the top ranked DEs in the league since 2006. In my opinion he's one of the best all around DEs in the league.

BigBull17
03-07-2011, 03:04 PM
The problem is if he doesn't perform well in this system, he loses trade value.

Personally, I think that he'll do well in the new system.

I don't think his value would drop all that much if he doesn't do well in this system.

gary
03-07-2011, 03:17 PM
Not only was he voted to the Pro Bowl in 2008 and 2009 he was snubbed (an alternate) during 2007. Coincidentally he was named First Team All Pro during '07 when he recorded 14 sacks on the season.

Although I don't believe Sacks should be the end all be all measurement when discussing DEs... he has been one of the top ranked DEs in the league since 2006. In my opinion he's one of the best all around DEs in the league.So, at least a two time Probowler and should have been three. Am I miss counting?

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2011, 03:20 PM
I don't think his value would drop all that much if he doesn't do well in this system.

If he doesn't perform, people can low ball him on the offers. They can point to his motor and the fact that it's been a few years since he's played well.

It's a bargaining chip.

disaacks3
03-07-2011, 03:27 PM
I don't think his value would drop all that much if he doesn't do well in this system.

That's where some of us disagree. I hope you're right, because this discussion may become all too real if he DOESN'T perform well this coming season.

gary
03-07-2011, 03:36 PM
I want to be clear I am not completely closed minded in regards to trading Mario but the offer had better be good or at least fair.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 04:01 PM
Better? Really? Care to name several "prototype" 4-3 DEs who suddenly got "better" in a 3-4? Bruce Smith was told that he'd likely have had 100+ more sacks in his career in a 4-3. I like Mario, but he's no Bruce Smith.

Agreed, but a vet at 3-4 DE is a completely different spot than what Mario has played thus far.

The market would likely never be higher for Mario than it is right now. Those of us who worried about going to a 3-4 knew this all up front. Suppose that Mario isn't willing to put in the extra work required of a 3-4 DE? His value will plummet if his production drops like a rock...which is entirely possible.

I'd keep him forever in a 4-3, but this is literally a make/break season for the Texans and he's never shown the abilities that you generally look for in a 3-4 DE. I wish him all the luck in the world if we keep him, but look for his production (and happiness) to fall.

Good post, more or less agree with everything here. It may behove the Texans to get, while the get'n is good.

As a prototypical 3-4 DE, a great game by Mario may go unnoticed, see Igor Olshanski.

But, we're being told Mario will be playing basically the same position he is playing now, with the caveat that he will be moved around to create mis-matches and exploit Mario's talents.

I'd like to see that...... But understand if some are skeptical about this administration, & the things they tell us.

But Mario is Wade's Andre. Just like Kubiak promised he would put Andre in position to be successful, and backed up that claim, there is no reason to believe they are being incincere about their plans for Mario.

Just like Andre had to do his part,a lot will be left up to Mario.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 04:10 PM
The problem is if he doesn't perform well in this system, he loses trade value.

Personally, I think that he'll do well in the new system.

Especially when the known, bonafide, can't get much better DC says he's going to tailor his D to make him successful.

Section516
03-07-2011, 04:18 PM
Especially when the known, bonafide, can't get much better DC says he's going to tailor his D to make him successful.

I was just about to post this...Mario's never had anything more than a fourth rate defensive coordinator..never someone exploiting a defense and doing to help MW excel..I'd almost say hes excelled in spite of coaching staff

Norg
03-07-2011, 04:50 PM
For aso. In a heart beat

For a 1st round pick in a heart beat

For a low second round pick in a heart beat

JB
03-07-2011, 05:03 PM
For aso. In a heart beat

For a 1st round pick in a heart beat

For a low second round pick in a heart beat

There ya go folks! Trading Mario would be a Norg move. Think about it.

TexCanada
03-07-2011, 05:05 PM
There ya go folks! Trading Mario would be a Norg move. Think about it.

/end thread. Mario goes nowhere.

gary
03-07-2011, 05:13 PM
I am not sure why anyone bothers with Norg anymore.

EllisUnit
03-07-2011, 06:44 PM
Better? Really? Care to name several "prototype" 4-3 DEs who suddenly got "better" in a 3-4? Bruce Smith was told that he'd likely have had 100+ more sacks in his career in a 4-3. I like Mario, but he's no Bruce Smith.

Agreed, but a vet at 3-4 DE is a completely different spot than what Mario has played thus far.

The market would likely never be higher for Mario than it is right now. Those of us who worried about going to a 3-4 knew this all up front. Suppose that Mario isn't willing to put in the extra work required of a 3-4 DE? His value will plummet if his production drops like a rock...which is entirely possible.

I'd keep him forever in a 4-3, but this is literally a make/break season for the Texans and he's never shown the abilities that you generally look for in a 3-4 DE. I wish him all the luck in the world if we keep him, but look for his production (and happiness) to fall.

I SAID he MAY GET better i never said anything to where i need to provide examples. Hell most un drafted free agents don't win a rushing title in their second season but here is last years rushing leader Arian Foster. I think Mario Deserves a shot. He may not become DOMINATE in the 3-4 BUT he will still be a force to be reckoned with rather its the 4-3 r 3-4 IMO.

EllisUnit
03-07-2011, 06:48 PM
I cant believe Im actually agreeing with EllisUnit.......but I agree.

i cant believe your agreeing with me either. I might Rep you Positively one day if you keep this up :thinking:

gary
03-07-2011, 06:57 PM
Mario for a 6th rounder is more like it.

EllisUnit
03-07-2011, 07:01 PM
Mario for a 6th rounder is more like it.

i'd got for the last pick in the 7th. Those guys always turn out to be super stars :kingkong:

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 07:21 PM
Mario for a 6th rounder is more like it.


i'd got for the last pick in the 7th. Those guys always turn out to be super stars :kingkong:

I'm not a Rick Smith fan.


But thank God for Rick Smith.
:texan:

EllisUnit
03-07-2011, 07:29 PM
I'm not a Rick Smith fan.


But thank God for Rick Smith.
:texan:

haha

gafftop
03-07-2011, 08:12 PM
What the Texans lose:
Mario Williams
Money-

What the Texans gain:
Asomugha
Veteran proven defensive player
Extra draft choices to either move up or draft players

Of course the above may be a pipe dream but if this were the outcome I think it would be hard to pass up. You get 3 players for 1. How can you pass that up with Mario's history.

McNair needs to show that he is trying to turn the Texans into contenders.

Again just my opinion

JB
03-07-2011, 08:17 PM
What the Texans lose:
Mario Williams
Money-

What the Texans gain:
Asomugha
Veteran proven defensive player
Extra draft choices to either move up or draft players

Of course the above may be a pipe dream but if this were the outcome I think it would be hard to pass up. You get 3 players for 1. How can you pass that up with Mario's history.

McNair needs to show that he is trying to turn the Texans into contenders.

Again just my opinion

If you were to trade Mario, there is no surety that you would get Aso here. What is your plan then?

gary
03-07-2011, 08:19 PM
What the Texans lose:
Mario Williams
Money-

What the Texans gain:
Asomugha
Veteran proven defensive player
Extra draft choices to either move up or draft players

Of course the above may be a pipe dream but if this were the outcome I think it would be hard to pass up. You get 3 players for 1. How can you pass that up with Mario's history.

McNair needs to show that he is trying to turn the Texans into contenders.

Again just my opinionDone deal for all of this but I don't think so man.

gafftop
03-07-2011, 08:24 PM
Done deal for all of this but I don't think so man.

I don't think so either, but I can dream.

gafftop
03-07-2011, 08:29 PM
If you were to trade Mario, there is no surety that you would get Aso here. What is your plan then?

It's my pipe dream and you don't trade Mario unless Aso is a done deal. LOL

JB
03-07-2011, 08:33 PM
It's my pipe dream and you don't trade Mario unless Aso is a done deal. LOL

My pipe dream would be to have them both.

Lucky
03-07-2011, 08:34 PM
I think we over value Mario here in Houston.
I think just as many underestimate Mario's ability. And why would Nnamdi want to come to Houston if we got rid of one of our better defensive players???

Didn't we already have a trade Mario" thread?

TexCanada
03-07-2011, 08:35 PM
My pipe dream would be to have them both.

This is closer to an expectation then it is a dream for me. Maybe not Aso specifically, but him or one of the other top FA CBs.

Texan_Bill
03-07-2011, 08:39 PM
A piece here, a piece there in the secondary, and the personnel for the front seven is basically in place.... Nose tackle not withstanding. Pollard was fun, and a great to watch but at the same time - good riddance!!! Quinn will work. I still feel that Jackson will figure it out and with that said, I don't see him as any sort of Pro-Bowler but decent enough...

The defense was horrible, not just because of lack of talent, but let's face it.... The coaching was horrible too.. A talent and coaching upgrade would do wonders under Phillips. I can see this defense going from like 30th in the League to somewhere around 17th and optimistically 14th or 15th....





That's what makes it fun, and this why I continue to buy tickets....





That said, we could go 2-14 again! :gun:

gafftop
03-07-2011, 08:46 PM
I think just as many underestimate Mario's ability. And why would Nnamdi want to come to Houston if we got rid of one of our better defensive players???

Didn't we already have a trade Mario" thread?

This is not just a trade Mario thread. It is more a thread on how to maybe get Nnamdi. I agree with you about Nnamdi not wanting to come to Houston but I think that would be the same even if Mario was here. You are going to have to pay if you want NA. I think Mario has great ability when healthy but his desire is in question and more importantly he seems to always be just a little hurt so he can't play to his full potential.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 09:30 PM
What the Texans lose:
Mario Williams
Money-

What the Texans gain:
Asomugha
Veteran proven defensive player
Extra draft choices to either move up or draft players

Of course the above may be a pipe dream but if this were the outcome I think it would be hard to pass up. You get 3 players for 1. How can you pass that up with Mario's history.

McNair needs to show that he is trying to turn the Texans into contenders.

Again just my opinion

Except Aso is a man without a team..... UFA. Who are we going to get these draft picks from?

& you forget to mention we'll be losing a veteran proven pro bowl player.


Like I said, if it makes the team better, I'm in..... but this won't happen.

JB
03-07-2011, 09:45 PM
Except Aso is a man without a team..... UFA. Who are we going to get these draft picks from?

& you forget to mention we'll be losing a veteran proven pro bowl player.


Like I said, if it makes the team better, I'm in..... but this won't happen.


You have to read the whole thread. Him and Norg don't think Mario is a pro bowl player.

gafftop
03-07-2011, 10:03 PM
Except Aso is a man without a team..... UFA. Who are we going to get these draft picks from?

& you forget to mention we'll be losing a veteran proven pro bowl player.


Like I said, if it makes the team better, I'm in..... but this won't happen.

You pay Aso and trade Mario for veteran defensive player and draft choices to free up money.

You are probably right but I hope the Texans are exploring the possibility.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 10:21 PM
You pay Aso and trade Mario for veteran defensive player and draft choices to free up money.

You are probably right but I hope the Texans are exploring the possibility.

So we get Nmandi straight up in FA....

Trade Mario to Cincinnati for Domata Peko, Reggie Nelson, and their 3rd, 5th & 6th round pick?

Something like that?

Definitely think the Texans should be exploring every possibility. Don't know that we should give up Mario.

Though going to a 3-4.... eh... I can see Amobi & Antonio as our starting DEs..... trade down, pick up Cameron Heyword & a couple of more picks...

gafftop
03-07-2011, 10:31 PM
So we get Nmandi straight up in FA....

Trade Mario to Cincinnati for Domata Peko, Reggie Nelson, and their 3rd, 5th & 6th round pick?

Something like that?

Definitely think the Texans should be exploring every possibility. Don't know that we should give up Mario.

Though going to a 3-4.... eh... I can see Amobi & Antonio as our starting DEs..... trade down, pick up Cameron Heyword & a couple of more picks...

Something like that.

disaacks3
03-07-2011, 11:02 PM
I SAID he MAY GET better i never said anything to where i need to provide examples. Hell most un drafted free agents don't win a rushing title in their second season but here is last years rushing leader Arian Foster. I think Mario Deserves a shot. He may not become DOMINATE in the 3-4 BUT he will still be a force to be reckoned with rather its the 4-3 r 3-4 IMO.

My point was simple...if you can't provide an example of someone in Mario's shoes 'moving' to a 3-4 and improving, then you're asking him to accomplish what no 4-3 DE has done before. Wade's good, but it's asking a lot to break new ground. Lord, I really, truly DO hope I'm wrong.

EllisUnit
03-07-2011, 11:05 PM
My point was simple...if you can't provide an example of someone in Mario's shoes 'moving' to a 3-4 and improving, then you're asking him to accomplish what no 4-3 DE has done before. Wade's good, but it's asking a lot to break new ground. Lord, I really, truly DO hope I'm wrong.

oh i understand what your saying, but I'm saying that M.W is one of the more athletic DEs I've ever seen. I just wouldn't count him out before he's had a shot.

Texan_Bill
03-07-2011, 11:15 PM
oh i understand what your saying, but I'm saying that M.W is one of the more athletic DEs I've ever seen. I just wouldn't count him out before he's had a shot.

Ellis, I totally agree with you on this point on MW.... I actually think he'll shine in this defense (barring injury), he'll be spectular...




*****************


I digress, Rockets win... Congrats Rick Adelman!!

EllisUnit
03-07-2011, 11:20 PM
Ellis, I totally agree with you on this point on MW.... I actually think he'll shine in this defense (barring injury), he'll be spectular...




*****************


I digress, Rockets win... Congrats Rick Adelman!!

yeah hopefully he comes back next season fully healthy and can return to his 08 form. When he is on, he is unstoppable. Many forget he has a nose for the ball, after these past two mediocre seasons.

Texan_Bill
03-07-2011, 11:39 PM
YO!!! I never forgot it...

I also still recognize he was a better pick than Vincent (juvenile) Young and Reggie "they didn't trust me in the Rose Bowl, so that I didn't get a get a carry in the fourth quarter and they all went to : "LenWhale!"

EllisUnit
03-07-2011, 11:42 PM
YO!!! I never forgot it...

I also still recognize he was a better pick than Vincent (juvenile) Young and Reggie "they didn't trust me in the Rose Bowl, so that I didn't get a get a carry in the fourth quarter and they all went to : "LenWhale!"

hahahaha :texflag:

gafftop
03-08-2011, 07:30 AM
oh i understand what your saying, but I'm saying that M.W is one of the more athletic DEs I've ever seen. I just wouldn't count him out before he's had a shot.

MW does not change directions quickly or accelerate quickly. A lot has to do with his physical makeup. I agree for his size he does OK but bottom line he is not what I would call quick or mobile. I think this is why he basically only bull rushes. He just can't get the footwork down. Just my opinion.

BullNation4Life
03-08-2011, 09:49 AM
MW does not change directions quickly or accelerate quickly. A lot has to do with his physical makeup. I agree for his size he does OK but bottom line he is not what I would call quick or mobile. I think this is why he basically only bull rushes. He just can't get the footwork down. Just my opinion.

Alot of the footwork is on coaching and Mario Williams and that defense hasn't had one decent Defensive Coordinator who knew what the hell they were doing yet, until now.

Now as to you trading Mario for Aso, I say no because you do not need an Aso in the secondary to have a successful defense. Is it nice to have, absolutely but not necessary. So if it isn't necessary to have a lock down CB to make you defense successful, then why trade away one of your important cogs of the defensive line?

go look at the defenses in the league that run a good 3-4 defense. Maybe one or two have a "true" lock down CB where the rest rely on competent CBs and a very strong pass rushing scheme. That is where the success lies in a 3-4, the pass rush. One of the reasons Williams in Green Bay looked like an All-Pro this year was A: he could stay with the receiver B: he capitalized on the pass rush making the QB make mistakes. Same thing with McCourty in NE. If you have CBs that can do this, you will be very successful on defense.

Also I would say a good ball hawking safety would be more important in a 3-4 than a lock down corner. A player that can play both in the box and cover somebody.

but hey that is just my opinion....

Ole Miss Texan
03-08-2011, 10:42 AM
So we get Nmandi straight up in FA....

Trade Mario to Cincinnati for Domata Peko, Reggie Nelson, and their 3rd, 5th & 6th round pick?

Something like that?

Definitely think the Texans should be exploring every possibility. Don't know that we should give up Mario.

Though going to a 3-4.... eh... I can see Amobi & Antonio as our starting DEs..... trade down, pick up Cameron Heyword & a couple of more picks...
Everyone will have different thoughts as to what Mario is worth.

The way I look at it is that we'd be trading probably our best Defensive player and the one that has the most upside. It would SEVERELY weaken our DL which already has question marks.

So what do we get in return for that?

-A free safety in Reggie Nelson that has been one of the bigger 1st round S busts in a long time. I doubt he beats out Troy Nolan.
-Domata Peko who appears could play the NT for us but I havn't watched him play (could be a hot prospect). If I'm not mistaken though, he's played nothing but 4-3 DT so Wade would be "projecting" that he would "fit" at NT.... not a proven guy.
-Then we get Three 3rd day draft picks. I question the impact that a 5th and 6th rounder will make on this team in the next year.

To me that trade (and I know it's just one of thousands of examples) just replaces one of the better DEs in the league with the possibility of a starting NT that's never played in a 3-4 and some depth.

If we look at some suggestions like this year's 1st and 2nd round picks for Mario... we're drafting 2 unproven rookies. There's more certainty to me that Wade can put Mario in a position to succeed than there is in just 1 of the rookies being a solid longterm answer. It's just way too risky a move for me.

I see the possibility of some upside like others may... but I think Mario will do good for us. I think there's just a lot on here that either think he's a bust already or think all of a sudden he's going to fall apart and not be good. I don't see that.

BullNation4Life
03-08-2011, 11:04 AM
Everyone will have different thoughts as to what Mario is worth.

The way I look at it is that we'd be trading probably our best Defensive player and the one that has the most upside. It would SEVERELY weaken our DL which already has question marks.

So what do we get in return for that?

-A free safety in Reggie Nelson that has been one of the bigger 1st round S busts in a long time. I doubt he beats out Troy Nolan.
-Domata Peko who appears could play the NT for us but I havn't watched him play (could be a hot prospect). If I'm not mistaken though, he's played nothing but 4-3 DT so Wade would be "projecting" that he would "fit" at NT.... not a proven guy.
-Then we get Three 3rd day draft picks. I question the impact that a 5th and 6th rounder will make on this team in the next year.

To me that trade (and I know it's just one of thousands of examples) just replaces one of the better DEs in the league with the possibility of a starting NT that's never played in a 3-4 and some depth.

If we look at some suggestions like this year's 1st and 2nd round picks for Mario... we're drafting 2 unproven rookies. There's more certainty to me that Wade can put Mario in a position to succeed than there is in just 1 of the rookies being a solid longterm answer. It's just way too risky a move for me.

I see the possibility of some upside like others may... but I think Mario will do good for us. I think there's just a lot on here that either think he's a bust already or think all of a sudden he's going to fall apart and not be good. I don't see that.

I just don't see how folks can call a 2-time (should be 3-time) Pro Bowl DE a bust, makes no sense to me.....

gary
03-08-2011, 11:11 AM
A mayjor reason for the doubt about Mario is because of injuries which I do understand.

Ole Miss Texan
03-08-2011, 11:30 AM
I just don't see how folks can call a 2-time (should be 3-time) Pro Bowl DE a bust, makes no sense to me.....

A mayjor reason for the doubt about Mario is because of injuries which I do understand.
All the more reason to be intruiged by what he's done to date. He's considered one of the most complete 4-3 DEs in the leauge WITH those seasonal nagging injuries - plantar fascitis, sports hernia, shoulder... whatever else there was. Now I'm not saying "yay he always has some injury" but at least they have been "severe" injuries that have kept him off the field... he's played through them every season and performed well as compared to the rest of the league.

Maybe some think he'll be exposed to more as a "3-4 DE" but I really don't think his role is going to change drastically than what he's done in the past. Just like Wade is saying his NTs don't have the same responsibility as other 3-4 NT's.... I don't think Mario will have the same role as most other 3-4DEs.

thunderkyss
03-08-2011, 11:32 AM
Everyone will have different thoughts as to what Mario is worth.

I see the possibility of some upside like others may... but I think Mario will do good for us. I think there's just a lot on here that either think he's a bust already or think all of a sudden he's going to fall apart and not be good. I don't see that.

I don't think Mario is a bust. I do, however, believe we're treating him as the defensive equivalent of David Carr..... the coaching staff that is. He's been nicked up every year since we got him, & we've yet to put together a decent rotation to allow him to take some time off. I know this was supposed to be that year, but with injuries to Bullman & Barwin, it didn't shake out that way...... & he ends up missing games because of a sports hernia.

I'm very high on Mario, glad he's a Texans, & hope he finish his career here..... but, if it's going to make the team better, why not?

I know my scenario may not make for a better team, but I was just throwing something out there, to get a better understanding of what gafftop was talking about.

If it were me (Rick Smith), he would be on the table. Gary & Wade would have to find a way to motivate him, if a deal doesn't get done. But this is business.

gary
03-08-2011, 11:40 AM
As is the case for any NFL player one good lick and your career just might be over and all of those nagging injuries just add to that factor.

dalemurphy
03-08-2011, 11:50 AM
I just don't see how folks can call a 2-time (should be 3-time) Pro Bowl DE a bust, makes no sense to me.....

He's certainly not a bust. People overreact because he is not fulfilling his ability. He has had one outstanding year and one very good one. The other three years, he has been inconsistent and flashed his ability but has not been anywhere near a dominant force. He has the ability to be Bruce Smith, Reggie White, etc... instead, he hasn't even matched the best sack season of Patrick Kerney, Adewale Ogunleye, or Elvis Dumervil... And last season, he played like a dead fish most of the season. I know he was injured. However, if he couldn't play with the injury, he should have got it taken care of.

gafftop
03-08-2011, 12:17 PM
There's no guarantee that Mario will succeed as a 3-4 DE. The Bruce Smith interview that was referenced on here earlier scared the beejeesus out of anyone who's seen Mario play.

I'd trade him in a heartbeat if it either:

A) Assured me someone like Aso

B) Got me moved up in the draft to take the player (like Miller) that we wanted.

There are MANY 4-3 teams that would give plenty for him, he IS a 4-3 DE Pro-Bowler (and deservedly so).

Agree

gafftop
03-08-2011, 12:18 PM
Better? Really? Care to name several "prototype" 4-3 DEs who suddenly got "better" in a 3-4? Bruce Smith was told that he'd likely have had 100+ more sacks in his career in a 4-3. I like Mario, but he's no Bruce Smith.

Agreed, but a vet at 3-4 DE is a completely different spot than what Mario has played thus far.

The market would likely never be higher for Mario than it is right now. Those of us who worried about going to a 3-4 knew this all up front. Suppose that Mario isn't willing to put in the extra work required of a 3-4 DE? His value will plummet if his production drops like a rock...which is entirely possible.

I'd keep him forever in a 4-3, but this is literally a make/break season for the Texans and he's never shown the abilities that you generally look for in a 3-4 DE. I wish him all the luck in the world if we keep him, but look for his production (and happiness) to fall.

Agree

gafftop
03-08-2011, 12:18 PM
As is the case for any NFL player one good lick and your career just might be over and all of those nagging injuries just add to that factor.

Agree

Ole Miss Texan
03-08-2011, 12:20 PM
There's no guarantee that Mario will succeed as a 3-4 DE. The Bruce Smith interview that was referenced on here earlier scared the beejeesus out of anyone who's seen Mario play.

I'd trade him in a heartbeat if it either:

A) Assured me someone like Aso

B) Got me moved up in the draft to take the player (like Miller) that we wanted.

There are MANY 4-3 teams that would give plenty for him, he IS a 4-3 DE Pro-Bowler (and deservedly so).
I don't disagree with what you're saying... but I think there's just as big a risk of Von Miller not making a significant impact for us at 3-4 OLB as Mario in the 3-4DE spot. I know that's not going to be popular because it appears Miller walks on water to some around here. I think there's even less chance of Miller performing well if Mario is not on the team taking on blockers in front of him. Mario + Miller could be a deadly combo though.

And yes I know Miller played in the 3-4 during college... for ONE year. And all he was asked to do was rush into the backfield (which he did very well). But it's easier to get by on that speed and athleticism in college than as a rookie in the NFL with arguably the worst 3-4 DL in front of him. (Thats assuming Mario is gone and Antonio Smith is starting along with... I don't know WHO at NT/DE).

gafftop
03-08-2011, 12:32 PM
We spread out the risk if we make the trade. We need alot of help on defense. If Mario was a sure thing in the new system then I don't know if it makes as much sense. But Mario is a BIG question mark. I don't think the Texans can gamble and hope he is happy in his new role and healthy. I do think he is thought of highly around the NFL or at least I hope he is or this deal will not work. Gary above said in one instant a player could be gone. If we do nothing we only have Mario. If someone is willing to trade maybe we get 3 for 1 and even if 1 goes down we have 2 other productive players. Also maybe NA is not the one to get. Maybe you get 2 highly productive players and a draft choice in the trade and sign someone else in FA, then package the 11 with the choice picked up and move up to get a better player in the draft. I don't know. All I know is if the trade happens we have multiple chance to be successful. Keep Mario and you are rolling the dice on Mario.

EllisUnit
03-08-2011, 07:45 PM
MW does not change directions quickly or accelerate quickly. A lot has to do with his physical makeup. I agree for his size he does OK but bottom line he is not what I would call quick or mobile. I think this is why he basically only bull rushes. He just can't get the footwork down. Just my opinion.

:thinking: have we been watching the same Mario Williams. They one i watch is very quick at getting off the ball. And does have pretty good feet.

gafftop
03-09-2011, 08:48 AM
:thinking: have we been watching the same Mario Williams. They one i watch is very quick at getting off the ball. And does have pretty good feet.

Probably footwork was not the best term. Maybe he is not the quickest in direction change. Just not able to get around the corner. I know he is fast for his size, but for direction change he was the slowest for the d lineman at the combine based on 3 cone and 20 yrd shuttle. Many of his sacks occur when the QB holds the ball or the QB steps into him. He seems to be a step slow. I think he is good player but expendable. He may be the only trade piece the Texans have that could help them improve in multilple areas. Again just my opinion.

badboy
03-09-2011, 12:45 PM
you could sign Asomugha? Trade Mario for draft choices or a combination of draft choices and maybe a solid veteran defensive player. With the money saved sign Nnamdi. I have never been a Mario fan, but I still thinks this makes sense. The only thing is you may not get much for Mario, but even if you don't it frees up money to sign NA. Sorry if brought up already. We also need a 2 or 1A wide receiver to go along with Andre. thanksYes, I mentioned on another thread. Mario to N.E. for their # 17 and a 2nd. Then trade #11 to them for #28 & #33. We get Aso, BPA at #17. Aaron Williams for our FS, The Baylor NT @ # 33 and use the other two 2nds for an OlB and BPA.

gafftop
03-09-2011, 01:06 PM
Yes, I mentioned on another thread. Mario to N.E. for their # 17 and a 2nd. Then trade #11 to them for #28 & #33. We get Aso, BPA at #17. Aaron Williams for our FS, The Baylor NT @ # 33 and use the other two 2nds for an OlB and BPA.

I agree to the concept, just not sure about specific names. I would like to get a solid d player in the trade. Texans aren't the best at drafting. But yeah that is what I am talking about, a mini Herschel Walker trade.

thunderkyss
03-09-2011, 05:43 PM
Heard McClain say the Texans will attempt to trade up for Von Miller....

FWIW.....

JB
03-09-2011, 06:37 PM
Heard McClain say the Texans will attempt to trade up for Von Miller....

FWIW.....

Well, that pretty much guarantee's we will not be trading up for Miller.

steelbtexan
03-09-2011, 07:15 PM
Alot of the footwork is on coaching and Mario Williams and that defense hasn't had one decent Defensive Coordinator who knew what the hell they were doing yet, until now.

Now as to you trading Mario for Aso, I say no because you do not need an Aso in the secondary to have a successful defense. Is it nice to have, absolutely but not necessary. So if it isn't necessary to have a lock down CB to make you defense successful, then why trade away one of your important cogs of the defensive line?

go look at the defenses in the league that run a good 3-4 defense. Maybe one or two have a "true" lock down CB where the rest rely on competent CBs and a very strong pass rushing scheme. That is where the success lies in a 3-4, the pass rush. One of the reasons Williams in Green Bay looked like an All-Pro this year was A: he could stay with the receiver B: he capitalized on the pass rush making the QB make mistakes. Same thing with McCourty in NE. If you have CBs that can do this, you will be very successful on defense.

Also I would say a good ball hawking safety would be more important in a 3-4 than a lock down corner. A player that can play both in the box and cover somebody.

but hey that is just my opinion....

So you would rather have a habitually injured, party boy that says he's no really into playing in a 3-4. Over the best CB in the NFL.

Taking Aso and drafting Watt/Jordan/Muhammed in the 1st would seem to be the way to go. All of these guys have better motors than MW and you get ASO.

JB
03-09-2011, 07:30 PM
So you would rather have a habitually injured, party boy that says he's no really into playing in a 3-4. Over the best CB in the NFL.

Taking Aso and drafting Watt/Jordan/Muhammed in the 1st would seem to be the way to go. All of these guys have better motors than MW and you get ASO.

I understand what you are saying, but trading Mario does not guarantee getting Aso to sign here. And if Aso will sign here, why can't you keep Mario and then draft a Houston or Watt or whoever your top rated OLB may be?

steelbtexan
03-09-2011, 07:31 PM
We spread out the risk if we make the trade. We need alot of help on defense. If Mario was a sure thing in the new system then I don't know if it makes as much sense. But Mario is a BIG question mark. I don't think the Texans can gamble and hope he is happy in his new role and healthy. I do think he is thought of highly around the NFL or at least I hope he is or this deal will not work. Gary above said in one instant a player could be gone. If we do nothing we only have Mario. If someone is willing to trade maybe we get 3 for 1 and even if 1 goes down we have 2 other productive players. Also maybe NA is not the one to get. Maybe you get 2 highly productive players and a draft choice in the trade and sign someone else in FA, then package the 11 with the choice picked up and move up to get a better player in the draft. I don't know. All I know is if the trade happens we have multiple chance to be successful. Keep Mario and you are rolling the dice on Mario.

Agreed

Plus MW is going to be due a huge contract extention after this season. (He will get one whether it's from the Texans are somebody else based on untapped potential) So the time is right to trade him now while you can get something close to maximum value.

MW is one of those guys who will leave you at the altar. In short he's overrated. (Always got some kind of freak injury.) The Texans need to rebuild this defense with high character guys. Not guys who are more worried about bling and racing their sports cars. Am I the only one that gets the feeling that football isn't the #1 priority in MW's life?

EllisUnit
03-09-2011, 07:37 PM
I understand what you are saying, but trading Mario does not guarantee getting Aso to sign here. And if Aso will sign here, why can't you keep Mario and then draft a Houston or Watt or whoever your top rated OLB may be?

i agree. Like i said before. Even if Mario DON'T excel in the 3-4 losing him will only make our D-Line Weaker. And we are trying to improve the Defense not make it weaker at another position.

infantrycak
03-09-2011, 07:39 PM
Not guys who are more worried about bling and racing their sports cars.

Yeah let's get NFL football players not worried about bling (not sure where that even came from but whatever) and we'll go 0-16.

There was one friggin' video of Mario in his car and the guy narrating it is lying about the speeds they are going plus it clearly isn't a race.

Frankly I would regard anyone who owned a Lambo and didn't unleash it every once in a while as a total jackass. Don't buy the car if your only intention is to get poon.

JB
03-09-2011, 07:46 PM
Yeah let's get NFL football players not worried about bling (not sure where that even came from but whatever) and we'll go 0-16.

There was one friggin' video of Mario in his car and the guy narrating it is lying about the speeds they are going plus it clearly isn't a race.

Frankly I would regard anyone who owned a Lambo and didn't unleash it every once in a while as a total jackass. Don't buy the car if your only intention is to get poon.

:toropalm: 'Cak!


There you go again! Trying to bring common sense into a Texans thread. SMH!

steelbtexan
03-09-2011, 07:52 PM
I understand what you are saying, but trading Mario does not guarantee getting Aso to sign here. And if Aso will sign here, why can't you keep Mario and then draft a Houston or Watt or whoever your top rated OLB may be?

True

Even if you weren't going to get ASO if a team offered a Jared Allen type deal you would have to take it.

A deal like that would accomplish the most important thing that the Texans are lacking. IMHO

It would change the country club mentality that currently resides in the Texans lockerroom.

steelbtexan
03-09-2011, 08:04 PM
Yeah let's get NFL football players not worried about bling (not sure where that even came from but whatever) and we'll go 0-16.

There was one friggin' video of Mario in his car and the guy narrating it is lying about the speeds they are going plus it clearly isn't a race.

Frankly I would regard anyone who owned a Lambo and didn't unleash it every once in a while as a total jackass. Don't buy the car if your only intention is to get poon.

Whatever

You keep on believing.

Everything is OK. If you say it enough people will begin to believe it. Oldest trick in the book.

BTW, MW was a big part of what was one of the worst defenses in NFL history. MW is and always will be a classic underachiever. Would you say he has underachieved so far in his college and NFL careers in relation to his god given abilities?

What have MW's teams ever accomplished?

Does the fact that the Texans made the right decision to draft MW over Bush and VY play a part in the undying MW fandom?

And MW is on record as saying he doesn't want to play in a 3-4. Yeah this is going to end well. O/U MW is hurt within 8 games.

EllisUnit
03-09-2011, 08:12 PM
Whatever

You keep on believing.

Everything is OK. If you say it enough people will begin to believe it. Oldest trick in the book.

BTW, MW was a big part of what was one of the worst defenses in NFL history. MW is and always will be a classic underachiever. Would you say he has underachieved so far in his college and NFL careers in relation to his god given abilities?

What have MW's teams ever accomplished?

Does the fact that the Texans made the right decision to draft MW over Bush and VY play a part in the undying MW fandom?

And MW is on record as saying he doesn't want to play in a 3-4. Yeah this is going to end well. O/U MW is hurt within 8 games.

what have AJs teams in the NFL accomplished ???? but u still respect him dont you.

infantrycak
03-09-2011, 08:15 PM
Whatever

You keep on believing.

Everything is OK. If you say it enough people will begin to believe it. Oldest trick in the book.

You really don't get my point at all? - really? I don't care if someone says they don't think Mario will work well in a 3-4 or we should trade him if we can for a more useful part to the team. What I object to is people piling on and making things up. Mario wears bling (again don't know where that came from) but so what? Mario likes to drive fast. Again so what? That means jack crap about his motivation or performance as a football player.

BTW, MW was a big part of what was one of the worst defenses in NFL history. MW is and always will be a classic underachiever. Would you say he has underachieved so far in his college and NFL careers in relation to his god given abilities?

What have MW's teams ever accomplished?

Blah, blah, blah. I have always rejected the X player's team achieved argument whether good or bad. Like every player on VY's national championship team is a winner and obviously they are all in the NFL as starters now. Like the SB winner from last year won't be changing up their personnel this year. It's a team sport. The team record is not a reflection of individual players.

This is like the knucklehead over at HT.com that wants to get rid of Andre Johnson because the team has never been good with him.

Does the fact that the Texans made the right decision to draft MW over Bush and VY play a part in the undying MW fandom?

No the fact that even injured he is one of the best DE's in football is what results in saying he is one of the best DE's in football.

And MW is on record as saying he doesn't want to play in a 3-4.

Pull the quote and I guarantee you are spinning a negative.

steelbtexan
03-09-2011, 08:35 PM
During Gary's press confrence one of the reporters asked the question about MW nt wanting to play in a 3-4 and in what I consider to be a change of attitude Gary basically said MW is going to have to accept the change.

This is the main reason why I'm not against taking a DE in Rd 1. That and there will be a BPA DE. Also maybe drafting a DE high might light a fire unde both MW and A.Smith.

AJ has won in college and you're right football is a team sport and MW isn't living up to his responsibilties.

Sorry if you consider me calling MW an injury prone underachiever is piling on. But MW is what he is and most likely what he always will be. It should be interesting to see if Wade can get the best out of MW and if MW's able to live up to the hype. It wont be on Wade, he's proven himself (B.Smith and others) I'm not getting my hopes up. Hopefully I'm wrong.


Maybe I set my expectations too high. I expect a talent like MW to be a leader on and off the field. So far MW hasfailed in this regard.

gary
03-09-2011, 08:41 PM
This is like the knucklehead over at HT.com that wants to get rid of Andre Johnson because the team has never been good with him.
I have to believe he is just stiring the pot. Are you serious?

gafftop
03-09-2011, 08:58 PM
So you would rather have a habitually injured, party boy that says he's no really into playing in a 3-4. Over the best CB in the NFL.

Taking Aso and drafting Watt/Jordan/Muhammed in the 1st would seem to be the way to go. All of these guys have better motors than MW and you get ASO.


Glad to see a few of you agree. I am afraid Mario will be to Phillips like Carr was to Kubiak. Next year he will be worth much much less. He could be the Stevie Franchise/Yao Ming of the Texans. Just a little angry that the Texans don't see it.

Why the heck was it so important to win the last game of the season. We might of had the 5th draft choice or the 8th at worst.

BullNation4Life
03-09-2011, 11:04 PM
So you would rather have a habitually injured, party boy that says he's no really into playing in a 3-4. Over the best CB in the NFL.

Taking Aso and drafting Watt/Jordan/Muhammed in the 1st would seem to be the way to go. All of these guys have better motors than MW and you get ASO.

Hold up, first I don't recall Williams saying he did NOT want, or was not interested in playing a 3-4, I recall Williams saying he was skeptical about how he was going to be used in a 3-4 and he has every right to feel that way. Dude has played in a 4-3 his whole career and you are asking him to do something he has never done. Of course he is going to be a bit leery of playing in a 3-4, who wouldn't be. Doesn't mean he won't do it. You act like the dude is Fat Albert over in Washington, refusing to step on the field as a 3-4 NT. Antonio Smith said flat out HE DID NOT want to play in a 3-4 because he was not big enough to play the position which is exactly why he left Arizona. So your point here is greatly exaggerated.....

Point 2: What NFL player is NOT a party boy? Really you are going to base your argument on trading MW becasue he likes to party and drive a fast car? Tell me again how many times Mario Williams has been in trouble with the law, that has been public? I'd say about as many as Aso, and Aso is a clean nosed as they come. Again, point exaggerated....

Point 3: You are gonna draft a rookie DE ,on a defense that notorious of getting little to 0 pressure on the QB, to fill the shoes of a player, who healthy or hurt, gets you the most sacks and QB pressures on the team every year AND is a 2 time Pro Bowl player? Not a smart move especially now going into a new scheme. Oh and also, Aso is not a guarantee, period so really this whole conversation is moot....

so to answer your question, yes I would rather have one in the hand that is a proven, Pro Bowl player, than 2 in the bush that hinge on a "wish"....

Norg
03-10-2011, 12:11 AM
Mario is going to be eaten alive by the Fatass guards hes not going to be playing a Tackle anymore he will prob not get respected and singled up

who ever our OLB will be better be clay matthews like or we are in for a long season

BullNation4Life
03-10-2011, 01:29 AM
Mario is going to be eaten alive by the Fatass guards hes not going to be playing a Tackle anymore he will prob not get respected and singled up

who ever our OLB will be better be clay matthews like or we are in for a long season

I think this video will better explain where Mario will be playing in a 3-4 scheme....

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2011/01/radio_faces_video_diagraming_m.html

Ole Miss Texan
03-10-2011, 08:30 AM
I think this video will better explain where Mario will be playing in a 3-4 scheme....

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2011/01/radio_faces_video_diagraming_m.html

Awesome link! I hadn't seen that. This makes me JJ Watt even more now (or maybe Cameron Jordan). I think that would really give Wade a lot to work with and he could really take advantage of Mario's strengths.

steelbtexan
03-10-2011, 09:46 AM
Hold up, first I don't recall Williams saying he did NOT want, or was not interested in playing a 3-4, I recall Williams saying he was skeptical about how he was going to be used in a 3-4 and he has every right to feel that way. Dude has played in a 4-3 his whole career and you are asking him to do something he has never done. Of course he is going to be a bit leery of playing in a 3-4, who wouldn't be. Doesn't mean he won't do it. You act like the dude is Fat Albert over in Washington, refusing to step on the field as a 3-4 NT. Antonio Smith said flat out HE DID NOT want to play in a 3-4 because he was not big enough to play the position which is exactly why he left Arizona. So your point here is greatly exaggerated.....

Point 2: What NFL player is NOT a party boy? Really you are going to base your argument on trading MW becasue he likes to party and drive a fast car? Tell me again how many times Mario Williams has been in trouble with the law, that has been public? I'd say about as many as Aso, and Aso is a clean nosed as they come. Again, point exaggerated....

Point 3: You are gonna draft a rookie DE ,on a defense that notorious of getting little to 0 pressure on the QB, to fill the shoes of a player, who healthy or hurt, gets you the most sacks and QB pressures on the team every year AND is a 2 time Pro Bowl player? Not a smart move especially now going into a new scheme. Oh and also, Aso is not a guarantee, period so really this whole conversation is moot....

so to answer your question, yes I would rather have one in the hand that is a proven, Pro Bowl player, than 2 in the bush that hinge on a "wish"....

So you wouldn't trade MW for a multiple time pro bowler (ASO) and a highly touted rookie. Man your MW love knows no bounds.

O/U 8 games before MW is hurt and remember he's going to be playing inside more this yr.

Ole Miss Texan
03-10-2011, 10:10 AM
So you wouldn't trade MW for a multiple time pro bowler (ASO) and a highly touted rookie. Man your MW love knows no bounds.

O/U 8 games before MW is hurt and remember he's going to be playing inside more this yr.

Asomugha is a free agent and we can't trade for him. The basis is trading Mario to clear cap space to be able to sign Asomugha.

For any cap experts out there, would we still be on the hook for some of Mario's costs this year even if he was traded? Additionally, his savings wouldn't be free and clear because we'd then be signing 2-3 guys (that we got for him)... so the savings could in fact be marginal... or at least not as much as the OP would think.

I'd love to have Asomugha but I'd rather keep Mario and sign one of the "2nd tier" free agents like Ike Taylor or somebody. Mario is our best pass rusher on an already weak pass rushing defense. I'd hate to see the DL with Antonio Smith and some Rookies or journeyman FAs. Our LBs would get eaten alive and guess what? 2 of the most important ones (Demeco and Barwin) are coming off severe injuries.

I think that's a recipe for disaster. But to each his own... I'm one of the biggest fans for getting Asomugha, I just don't like the basis of how this thread is going about doing it.

steelbtexan
03-10-2011, 10:22 AM
I was just talking in hypotheticals when I said trade.

As far as ASO vs MW give me the guy who is least injured. Plus if you accept the fact that the defense isn't going to be rebuilt in 1 yr. Then this makes even more sense.

People tend to fall in love with there own on this MB. How much do you think it will cost to sign MW next off season? I bet it will be close to ASO $$$$.

The better ? is who would you be willing to trade 8 games of MW for?

infantrycak
03-10-2011, 10:30 AM
Sorry if you consider me calling MW an injury prone underachiever is piling on.

Holy Jesus de Madre. Seriously read what I said. I didn't say anything about you calling MW injury prone (even though I disagree because all his injuries have been different) or an underachiever (although I disagree since he is one of the best DE's in the game while being injured). I said you were piling on because you were making up BS reasons to criticize him like bling and speeding.

I have to believe he is just stiring the pot. Are you serious?

Yeah I am serious. Incredible. But it demonstrates the fallacy of "well he hasn't been on a winning team so he can't be that good" or the flip side.

Asomugha is a free agent and we can't trade for him.

Exactly.

For any cap experts out there, would we still be on the hook for some of Mario's costs this year even if he was traded?

That's up in the air with the CBA but the expectation should be yes. The cap would be hit with whatever remains of his prorated bonuses.

The Pencil Neck
03-10-2011, 10:43 AM
For me, the question is really: "who do you want more on your defense?"

You've got one of THE shutdown cornerbacks in the league without a history in his prime OR you've got a freak athlete who has been injured quite a bit and never been able to play to his potential who has questions about his motor and questions about how well he'll fit into the new defense.

If I have the choice between the two, I go with the CB.

I hope that Mario works in this defense and I hope that he stays healthy for the full year and I hope he has a series of monster years. But I think Asomugha has a better chance of doing all those things.

If I had my druthers, I'd have both guys.

Ole Miss Texan
03-10-2011, 10:59 AM
I was just talking in hypotheticals when I said trade.

The better ? is who would you be willing to trade 8 games of MW for?
The OP is about trading Mario... but it's trading him to clear cap space in order to sign Asomugha. In reality, I don't think enough cap space would be cleared as part of his contract would still hit... plus we'd still have to sign 3 other players.

And where are you coming from with 8 games? Yes he's had minor nagging injuries since he's been here... but it's not like he's some useless over the hill injury prone player that has been missing time. Mario has played in and STARTED 77 straight games for us. That's every single game he's been a Texan... except for the last 3 of this season. He probably could have gone on and played but it was pointless - we were out of playoff contention and there was no reason to play him. Let's stop with the "Mario is a gimp that misses games" arguement.

Holy Jesus de Madre. Seriously read what I said. I didn't say anything about you calling MW injury prone (even though I disagree because all his injuries have been different) or an underachiever (although I disagree since he is one of the best DE's in the game while being injured). I said you were piling on because you were making up BS reasons to criticize him like bling and speeding.
This is what gets me too. The arguements he's injury prone and more interested in partying and being a racecar driver. lol

People act like Wade is going to use him as a standard 3-4 DE and not utilize his strengths. The unknown of how will Mario do in this system? I'm really not worried about it at all to be honest. I think Wade is going to put him in the best positions to be productive. It's possible he could be even more successful than he has been. I wish people would get off the whole "3-4" panic attack... just like the Nose Tackle business. We're not going after a fatass 3-4 nose that takes on double and triple teams every down. Not every 3-4 is the same!!

Yes Mario is going to cost a ton if and when we re-sign him. With him we are building from the front to the back. Without him, I would say we'd have THE weakest DL in the entire league. Asomugha could cover the entire secondary if he wanted to but teams would run the ball down our throat and we couldn't do a single thing to stop them. Getting rid of Mario is not the answer to turning the defense around in 1 year or 5.

gary
03-10-2011, 12:29 PM
Why not just sign a vet CB and a safety who is better than what is there right now? Does it have to be the best?

BullNation4Life
03-10-2011, 01:00 PM
So you wouldn't trade MW for a multiple time pro bowler (ASO) and a highly touted rookie. Man your MW love knows no bounds.

O/U 8 games before MW is hurt and remember he's going to be playing inside more this yr.

It has nothing to do with man love for Mario and everything to do with making an already weak pass rush weaker, especially with a rookie. Like I said, it would be fabulous to have an Aso manning the secondary, but in a 3-4 scheme you do not need that shut down corner like you do in a 4-3. You need competent DBs and a ball hawk safety to make the defense successful....

Mario is not going to be playing inside more. He isn't moving over the guard, in Phillips scheme, he lines up on the tackle still he is just responsible for the 1-2 gaps. Will he catch double teams by the guard and tackle, sure but that is also why Phillips will stand him up and move him around. I fully expect him to have a Jason Taylor type effect in Phillips defense, ie: not knowing where he is coming from and being able to make the plays.

watch the video I posted and it explains it better....

BullNation4Life
03-10-2011, 01:04 PM
Why not just sign a vet CB and a safety who is better than what is there right now? Does it have to be the best?

Hey Gary! Dagnabbit! Quit bringing logic into our little fantasy world! Folks around here want 22 Pro Bowl players and we are not taking no for an answer!







What you suggested is exactly what the Texans should do....

BullNation4Life
03-10-2011, 01:15 PM
I was just talking in hypotheticals when I said trade.

As far as ASO vs MW give me the guy who is least injured. Plus if you accept the fact that the defense isn't going to be rebuilt in 1 yr. Then this makes even more sense.

People tend to fall in love with there own on this MB. How much do you think it will cost to sign MW next off season? I bet it will be close to ASO $$$$.

The better ? is who would you be willing to trade 8 games of MW for?

Bold: Then you really haven't been paying attention to who Wade Phillips is as a defensive coordinator.Many of the defenses Phillips coached in the first year, has not only improved dramatically, that team made the playoffs....

oh but because it's the Texans, that isn't gonna happen? GMAFB!

gary
03-10-2011, 01:35 PM
Hey Gary! Dagnabbit! Quit bringing logic into our little fantasy world! Folks around here want 22 Pro Bowl players and we are not taking no for an answer!







What you suggested is exactly what the Texans should do....Hey, I just don't think the best is needed at least not for the 3-4 defense.

The Pencil Neck
03-10-2011, 01:41 PM
Like I said, it would be fabulous to have an Aso manning the secondary, but in a 3-4 scheme you do not need that shut down corner like you do in a 4-3.

Needing a shutdown corner or not isn't a function of 3-4 vs. 4-3. The DBs on the backend do pretty much the same stuff in either front 7 configuration.

You need a shutdown corner if you're playing man to man based coverages as your primary coverages. If you're playing zone, then you don't.

If you customarily bring more than 4 pass rushers to get pressure, then you're probably playing man to man based coverages as your primary coverages.

So it all comes down to whether Wade normally brings more than 4 guys at the QB and what kind of coverages he prefers on the backend.

disaacks3
03-10-2011, 03:05 PM
Why not just sign a vet CB and a safety who is better than what is there right now? Does it have to be the best?
The "best" is rarely, if ever available. Forget Mario in the equation for a minute...shouldn't the Texans F.O. do everything they can to bring in the BEST player to shore up the WORST pass defense?

Ole Miss Texan
03-10-2011, 03:09 PM
The "best" is rarely, if ever available. Forget Mario in the equation for a minute...shouldn't the Texans F.O. do everything they can to bring in the BEST player to shore up the WORST pass defense?

Well sure. But this thread was about "clearing" cap room in order to sign "the best".

What's being suggested would be the equivalent of Andre Johnson being a Free Agent and Cleveland deciding to trade away Joe Thomas in order to get Dre.

Some fans would be for it, some fans would be against it. You'd be stealing from peter to feed paul... would their offense by any better?

gary
03-10-2011, 03:13 PM
The "best" is rarely, if ever available. Forget Mario in the equation for a minute...shouldn't the Texans F.O. do everything they can to bring in the BEST player to shore up the WORST pass defense?By trading away one of their BEST DE they have ever had if not the best?

steelbtexan
03-10-2011, 03:16 PM
Time will tell on MW.

Just remember that I called last season beforehand. Wade will improve the defense and I can see an 8-8 maybe 9-7 at best. MW will be playing at a lower level because of some injury. Just like almost every other yr in his career. IMHO

disaacks3
03-10-2011, 03:23 PM
By trading away one of their BEST DE they have ever had if not the best? With a team history as short as the Texans, that's not much of an argument. It also assumes his production won't slip when converting to a 3-4 DE. Anyone not seriously worried about it has been drinking too much Wade-Ade.

To be perfectly clear - I'd be for the "trade", even though there's no trade necessary to get Asoo (unless we're back to the cap space discussion).

gary
03-10-2011, 03:36 PM
With a team history as short as the Texans, that's not much of an argument. It also assumes his production won't slip when converting to a 3-4 DE. Anyone not seriously worried about it has been drinking too much Wade-Ade.

To be perfectly clear - I'd be for the "trade", even though there's no trade necessary to get Asoo (unless we're back to the cap space discussion).It sure is an argument when you consider having to draft a rookie in an area where they struggle already. So, you don't think the money is there to sign ASO right now?

gafftop
03-10-2011, 03:43 PM
We spread out the risk if we make the trade. We need alot of help on defense. If Mario was a sure thing in the new system then I don't know if it makes as much sense. But Mario is a BIG question mark. I don't think the Texans can gamble and hope he is happy in his new role and healthy. I do think he is thought of highly around the NFL or at least I hope he is or this deal will not work. Gary above said in one instant a player could be gone. If we do nothing we only have Mario. If someone is willing to trade maybe we get 3 for 1 and even if 1 goes down we have 2 other productive players. Also maybe NA is not the one to get. Maybe you get 2 highly productive players and a draft choice in the trade and sign someone else in FA, then package the 11 with the choice picked up and move up to get a better player in the draft. I don't know. All I know is if the trade happens we have multiple chance to be successful. Keep Mario and you are rolling the dice on Mario.

I agree that NA(Aso) is not the key here. The key is trading something that still has value but is very questionable and improving overall. It may possibly be that Mario is not valued enough to make any of this discussion realistic because the other teams see what we see but maybe they think that with better coaching they can make MW better. I still focus on him always having nagging injuries as the biggest negative. I think this year is the year to trade him. Next year I fear his value will have fallen considerably. How many more years is he under contract?

disaacks3
03-10-2011, 03:58 PM
It sure is an argument when you consider having to draft a rookie in an area where they struggle already. So, you don't think the money is there to sign ASO right now?

In a conventional 3-4, your primary pass-rushers are you OLBs, not the DEs (see Clay Matthews). Given that as a baseline, we have Zero idea how good/bad our pass rush will be this year anyway. Honestly, I'm not knowledgeable enough on the Texans cap situation, but I do know that 8mil was freed up through our earlier cuts.

EllisUnit
03-10-2011, 04:02 PM
It has nothing to do with man love for Mario and everything to do with making an already weak pass rush weaker, especially with a rookie. Like I said, it would be fabulous to have an Aso manning the secondary, but in a 3-4 scheme you do not need that shut down corner like you do in a 4-3. You need competent DBs and a ball hawk safety to make the defense successful....

Mario is not going to be playing inside more. He isn't moving over the guard, in Phillips scheme, he lines up on the tackle still he is just responsible for the 1-2 gaps. Will he catch double teams by the guard and tackle, sure but that is also why Phillips will stand him up and move him around. I fully expect him to have a Jason Taylor type effect in Phillips defense, ie: not knowing where he is coming from and being able to make the plays.

watch the video I posted and it explains it better....

Thats all fine and dandy, BUT we dont have that. Well i wouldnt say that but they wouldnt succeed in a 3-4 even though u dont need Superstars in the secondary. These guys made unheard of WRs look good and washed up/Rookie QBs, and dont blame ALL that on the safties. We cant play man to save our lives, and as of now we have NO safties to help us out either.

infantrycak
03-10-2011, 04:02 PM
In a conventional 3-4, your primary pass-rushers are you OLBs, not the DEs (see Clay Matthews). Given that as a baseline, we have Zero idea how good/bad our pass rush will be this year anyway. Honestly, I'm not knowledgeable enough on the Texans cap situation, but I do know that 8mil was freed up through our earlier cuts.

Right now nobody has an idea of the current cap situation because there is none and there won't be one until a new CBA is reached. Can't calculate something when you don't know the formula.

gary
03-10-2011, 04:14 PM
In a conventional 3-4, your primary pass-rushers are you OLBs, not the DEs (see Clay Matthews). Given that as a baseline, we have Zero idea how good/bad our pass rush will be this year anyway. Honestly, I'm not knowledgeable enough on the Texans cap situation, but I do know that 8mil was freed up through our earlier cuts.True, our LB corps were not that great if that is anything to go by. Again, what would be a trade which would make both teams happy like I said earlier. If you find a trade that fits both teams then great do it.

gafftop
03-14-2011, 09:29 AM
If Mario is 100% healthy and 100% motivated he is very good. My problem is you can probably count the number ot times this perfect storm will happen this coming season on your fingers. I hope he proves me wrong. This being his contract year may motivate him.

Tx Longhorn
04-19-2011, 07:17 PM
I think just as many underestimate Mario's ability. And why would Nnamdi want to come to Houston if we got rid of one of our better defensive players???

Didn't we already have a trade Mario" thread?

Kinda seems like cutting off your noses in spite of your face to trade arguably your best defensive player to bring in Asomugah, no?

Seems like there's a lot of assumption Mario isn't going to cut it in Phillips' defense. He's a good player, good players adapt IMHO.

Mr teX
04-19-2011, 07:39 PM
I think there is way too much simplification going on regarding 4-3 and 3-4 defensive schemes, like they're rigid, set, structured fronts. When in reality, I think Wade can be very creative and fluid with the fronts.

As someone just mentioned, it sounds like we're going to be running a 4-3 during passing situations. Mario as an end, Barwin or another pass rusher likely as the other end, Antonio Smith moving inside to DT. So yes, we know what we have with Mario at 4-3 and we're still going to be having him do that. Wade is also going to be creative and put Mario in situations to succeed. Not every 3-4 DE is asked to do the same thing as all the other 3-4 DEs... I think Mario will be fine.


As far as us losing value or leverage if Mario "fails" as a 3-4 DE... I don't think that's entirely true. It may limit the number of teams that would pursue him but if he still performs well in 4-3 situations I don't think those 4-3 teams would be less interested in him.

you can pretty much generalize this statement to the entire website...

gafftop
04-19-2011, 10:46 PM
Simplified possible Mario outcomes next season:
1. Plays good when healthy but has some type of nagging injury as last two years
2. Does not adapt to 3-4.
3. Plays great in his contract year

In 1 we get probably nothing or do we get compensation because we do not sign as we did with Dunta. Last pick in draft. LOL

In 2 same as 1

In 3, do you want to give Mario say 20+ million for the next 5 years based on his last year of performance. Say the cap is 120 million. If you divide in half, half for offense and half for defense, do you really want to give Mario 33% of all money for defense? I sure don't. DO YOU?

In reality probably no player is worth that large of % of cap. Maybe Peyton or Brady etc QBs of that caliber may be the only position that warrants that and even then it is a crap shoot because of injury.

The above is why I think IF you can get a good deal in a trade this year you do it.

It is very likely that other teams view Mario in the same way and will give nothing for him this year. I don't know. But if there are teams out that that covet him I think it should seriously be considered by the Texans.

I don't think Aso is a good deal based on reasoning above.
Just my opinion.

Dutchrudder
04-19-2011, 11:37 PM
Are you insane? 20+ mill a year for Mario at his peak is still overpaying. He could get 22 sacks this year and he won't get that kind of offer from any other team.

Based on what he has done so far, I would peg him as a 6-7 mill a year player in a 4-3. In a 3-4? Who knows...

That said, I would gladly trade him to Denver for Elvis dumerville and a 2nd.

Lucky
04-19-2011, 11:42 PM
One "Trade Mario" thread is enough.

gafftop
04-20-2011, 07:24 AM
Disagree with you Lucky, this is very different from original post.

I agree he is not worth $20mil/year. Your range is about right but if he has a good year he will get more.

My point is 1 and 2 have a better chance of happening than 3.

Therefore after this season if we do not resign we get compensation only.

If we could get a player we like and draft choices now is the time.

Now it could be that the compensation is MORE than what anybody is offering.

What do you think the Texans could get for Mario when trading resumes?
thanks

Ole Miss Texan
04-20-2011, 09:03 AM
Disagree with you Lucky, this is very different from original post.

I agree he is not worth $20mil/year. Your range is about right but if he has a good year he will get more.

My point is 1 and 2 have a better chance of happening than 3.

Therefore after this season if we do not resign we get compensation only.

If we could get a player we like and draft choices now is the time.

Now it could be that the compensation is MORE than what anybody is offering.

What do you think the Texans could get for Mario when trading resumes?
thanks
If we were to trade Mario it would happen after this draft and when the new CBA is agreed to. Then it would involve 2012 draft picks and/or current players. If we really want a prospect from this years draft, say Peterson or Miller or whoever, the stars are going to have to align for THAT specific team to be willing to give up their Top 5-10 draft pick (Peterson) plus maybe a 2012 pick PLUS see the need for MArio to be on their team and be willing to give him that big contract your talking about.

I have more faith that Wade Phillips can get Mario to play great in this defense than I do Peterson or Miller coming in as a rookie and being better. Mario isn't going anywhere.

gafftop
04-20-2011, 09:33 PM
If we were to trade Mario it would happen after this draft and when the new CBA is agreed to. Then it would involve 2012 draft picks and/or current players. If we really want a prospect from this years draft, say Peterson or Miller or whoever, the stars are going to have to align for THAT specific team to be willing to give up their Top 5-10 draft pick (Peterson) plus maybe a 2012 pick PLUS see the need for MArio to be on their team and be willing to give him that big contract your talking about.

I have more faith that Wade Phillips can get Mario to play great in this defense than I do Peterson or Miller coming in as a rookie and being better. Mario isn't going anywhere.

I tend to agree with you. It makes me sick that we will get nothing or worse we sign Mario to another big contract. I would be OK with a proven player and a high draft choice next year. That is better than nothing. The Patriots get incrementally better with each trade. It may not be a blockbuster trade but they do get better and younger. The overall talent level of the team is always getting better, plus they know talent that allows them to continually get better. The Texans on the other hand tend to make trades that makes no difference or more often makes them worse. Have they ever made a trade that improved the team? I know Schaub, but we did not give up an actual player. Have we ever traded a player and received a draft choice or player? i umderstand we don't have a lot to trade. Mario is about the only one that MAY have value that I would trade. Just rambling now not looking forward to this coming season.

gafftop
04-29-2011, 10:34 PM
Would you trade Mario straight up for Patrick Peterson???
Last year of contract, physical history, ...
I think I would do it.

b0ng
04-29-2011, 10:36 PM
Would you trade Mario straight up for Patrick Peterson???
Last year of contract, physical history, ...
I think I would do it.

No way, I don't usually advocate trading corner stones for rookies.

badboy
04-30-2011, 04:21 PM
This may be a good for team year for Houston. Mario is in last year and needs to have a great year to get one more deal. An average year will still get him offers but probably not what he wants. If traded he needs to go to a team that needs one player and can afford him. That's why I did a post with him going to N.E.

EllisUnit
04-30-2011, 04:53 PM
Would you trade Mario straight up for Patrick Peterson???
Last year of contract, physical history, ...
I think I would do it.

:toropalm: yeah lets make our pass rush worse and make the secondary younger

gafftop
04-30-2011, 05:00 PM
No way, I don't usually advocate trading corner stones for rookies.

I would agree with you. But if Mario is our cornerstone we are in trouble. He has had all types of nagging issues constantly. I want somebody that goes all out leading the defense. Mario may have a career year this year ( it is his contract year) but I do not wish to commit big dollars over a long period for him based on his history. I guess I think i know what Mario is and he has had time to prove himself. I would gamble hear and do it. Just my opinion. but then again I do not think Mario hung the moon.

EllisUnit
04-30-2011, 05:04 PM
I would agree with you. But if Mario is our cornerstone we are in trouble. He has had all types of nagging issues constantly. I want somebody that goes all out leading the defense. Mario may have a career year this year ( it is his contract year) but I do not wish to commit big dollars over a long period for him based on his history. I guess I think i know what Mario is and he has had time to prove himself. I would gamble hear and do it. Just my opinion. but the again I do not think Mario hung the moon.

ranks top five in sacks since 06 not TOOOO Shabby

gafftop
04-30-2011, 05:29 PM
Yeah....I am not saying Mario is not talented, if he wasn't talented this would be a waste of time because St Louis would never consider the trade, I just think now is the time to get SOMETHING for him worth more than the last pick in the draft as compensation. I know we would get more, but still. Maybe a better question is do you think St Louis would do it straight up?

threetoedpete
04-30-2011, 05:31 PM
There's no guarantee that Mario will succeed as a 3-4 DE. The Bruce Smith interview that was referenced on here earlier scared the beejeesus out of anyone who's seen Mario play.

I'd trade him in a heartbeat if it either:

A) Assured me someone like Aso

B) Got me moved up in the draft to take the player (like Miller) that we wanted.

There are MANY 4-3 teams that would give plenty for him, he IS a 4-3 DE Pro-Bowler (and deservedly so).


I totally agree with this post--- Mario is a true 4-3 DE so therefore he can't make the transition. If that is what Wade Phillips has on his mind, then this will be a disaster. Amobi should be gone!!! He can't play in a 3-4 either. What are we going to get for Mario???

LikeMike
04-30-2011, 05:33 PM
Mario will help us more this season - and probably next. But after that, a guy like Peterson would most likely help us more. Mario has injury problems and never played in a 3-4. But he is a proven special player. You don`t give that up easy. But Peterson and maybe a second round pick - IŽd bite.

Ole Miss Texan
04-30-2011, 05:50 PM
JJ Watt and Mario Williams are going to be a nightmare for opposing OC's to gameplan for. We are finally building a very strong front to our defense and I do not want to trade Mario when we're finally getting the pieces to be dangerous. Watt and Mario can both give us pro bowl type of seasons. Antonio Smith is just another guy now in my opinion. Awesome guy to rotate in and move Mario around. This will be great for our defense. Getting rid of Mario weakens us big time.

EllisUnit
04-30-2011, 06:49 PM
JJ Watt and Mario Williams are going to be a nightmare for opposing OC's to gameplan for. We are finally building a very strong front to our defense and I do not want to trade Mario when we're finally getting the pieces to be dangerous. Watt and Mario can both give us pro bowl type of seasons. Antonio Smith is just another guy now in my opinion. Awesome guy to rotate in and move Mario around. This will be great for our defense. Getting rid of Mario weakens us big time.

+10 :ant:

b0ng
04-30-2011, 11:10 PM
I'm still failing to see why this front office would feel it's prudent to make a move like this before seeing how Mario performs in this defense. I also don't understand the logic of trading a proven commodity for an unproven rookie?

gafftop
05-02-2011, 07:53 AM
Mario will help us more this season - and probably next. But after that, a guy like Peterson would most likely help us more. Mario has injury problems and never played in a 3-4. But he is a proven special player. You don`t give that up easy. But Peterson and maybe a second round pick - IŽd bite.

Peterson AND a 2nd roung is a no brainer. I would not consider trading Mario if he did not have the constant injuries that keep him from being 100%. When 100% and motivated he is a beast. It may not even be a motivation problem it may be purely physical. The problem is I would guess in the last couple of years he has been 100% less than 50% of the time. This is his last year under contract. I think next year he is UFA. The question is do you want to sign him for another long term high dollar contract based on his RESULTS over the last 2-3 years? My opinion is no. So therefore the answer is to try and make a trade. I know it may hurt the team this year but I feel in the long run it is a better move. I think you build a solid team by making decisions based on the good of the team in the long run. Again just my opinion.

gafftop
05-02-2011, 07:57 AM
I'm still failing to see why this front office would feel it's prudent to make a move like this before seeing how Mario performs in this defense. I also don't understand the logic of trading a proven commodity for an unproven rookie?

I agree this FO would never do this because they only care about next year.
Mario is proven when 100% healthy. If he is playing at 70% he is average.

gtexan02
05-02-2011, 08:00 AM
When you play the Colts twice per year, you need to be ready to play a LOT of nickel defense. Many 3-4 teams transition to 4 down lineman in the nickel. Mario, an excellent pass rusher and run stopper, will still have plenty role to play in those situations

Rey
05-02-2011, 08:21 AM
I don't understand the sentiment that Mario won't be here after this year. Are they changing the franchise tag rules?

gafftop
05-02-2011, 08:54 AM
I don't understand the sentiment that Mario won't be here after this year. Are they changing the franchise tag rules?

I guess my question is , if he has injury problems again this year or does not adapt to 3-4 is he worth the franchise tag? We did not franchise Dunta this last year and we got the last pick in the draft as compensation. I guess i would like to get more for Mario than that. If we end up with say a 4th round draft choice in compensation for Mario the overall talent level of the team goes down. The goal is to win championships or at least get into the playoffs and be in the game. You get there with coaching AND players. If the quality of your players is going downhill or is not going up as quick as other teams then you are losing ground. You can make a quick change in the coaching but the talent level of the players is a long term and ongoing process.

gafftop
05-02-2011, 11:00 AM
Time will tell on MW.

Just remember that I called last season beforehand. Wade will improve the defense and I can see an 8-8 maybe 9-7 at best. MW will be playing at a lower level because of some injury. Just like almost every other yr in his career. IMHO

I agree 100%. The defense will improve but this will put the offense in play and guess what it will be average at best if significant additions aren't made.
In reference to Mario I have even gone as far as to post the conspiracy theory that the Texans make up injuries so as to hide that they made a poor choice.

I see the Texans as 8-8 or 7-9 as they will be above average in offense, below average in defense, and way below average in coaching. Beleive me i pray i am wrong.

VTexan
05-02-2011, 11:43 AM
Riddle me this: if Watt and Mario have very similar combine stats and measurements, why isn't Mario a perfect fit for a 3-4 DE if Watt is?

Call me crazy, but I think Mario is going to have a career year.

steelbtexan
05-02-2011, 11:58 AM
I'm still failing to see why this front office would feel it's prudent to make a move like this before seeing how Mario performs in this defense. I also don't understand the logic of trading a proven commodity for an unproven rookie?

Tell me how many games MW will play before his annual injury bug bites?

I would take Peterson in a heartbeat. (No injury issues and he's every bit the athletic freak MW is)

A plus in adeal like this is that the deal frees up MW's $$$$ to be a player in FA. Say you want ASO, trading MW gives you the $$$$ to do the deal. In addition to getting Peterson.

That's why this deal will never happen. That and the fact that Arizona would never do a trade for MW.

gafftop
05-02-2011, 12:06 PM
Riddle me this: if Watt and Mario have very similar combine stats and measurements, why isn't Mario a perfect fit for a 3-4 DE if Watt is?

Call me crazy, but I think Mario is going to have a career year.

I have no idea why Mario is not a perfecct fit for the 3-4. Mario could have a career year IF he stays healthy and adapts. My problem is even if this happens THEN WHAT??? You feel he is worth another long term mega contract based on this his contract year i guess. I am in the other camp that feels that with his history he is not worth it. Just a difference of opinion.

I agree if Mario is a beast we have a better chance of making the playoffs this year. We are risking not getting maximum value for him in a trade if he does not or even if he does. I know we can franchise but that is a short term solution. Again just my opinion.

DocBar
05-02-2011, 01:18 PM
:twocents:Tell me how many games MW will play before his annual injury bug bites?

I would take Peterson in a heartbeat. (No injury issues and he's every bit the athletic freak MW is)
A plus in adeal like this is that the deal frees up MW's $$$$ to be a player in FA. Say you want ASO, trading MW gives you the $$$$ to do the deal. In addition to getting Peterson.

That's why this deal will never happen. That and the fact that Arizona would never do a trade for MW.I'm just jumping in here. I haven't read all these posts. Shouldn't we be interested in signing football players and not athletic freaks? MW seems to have all the tools but is either injured in some way or just doesn't give it his all every play. IMO, he doesn't merit another mega-contract, almost regardless of stats in a contract year. Let Washington sign Haynesworth v2.0. He hasn't been the difference maker that he should have been. I would rather see how Ryans comes back from his injury and give him a mega-contract. He's been much more consistent and an overall better player.
I guess I'm saying I would trade him for the right price.

gafftop
05-02-2011, 02:02 PM
:twocents:I'm just jumping in here. I haven't read all these posts. Shouldn't we be interested in signing football players and not athletic freaks? MW seems to have all the tools but is either injured in some way or just doesn't give it his all every play. IMO, he doesn't merit another mega-contract, almost regardless of stats in a contract year. Let Washington sign Haynesworth v2.0. He hasn't been the difference maker that he should have been. I would rather see how Ryans comes back from his injury and give him a mega-contract. He's been much more consistent and an overall better player.
I guess I'm saying I would trade him for the right price.

Well Doc we agree here about Mario. I am not sure about mega-contract for Ryans but Mario is the focus in this discussion.

b0ng
05-02-2011, 09:09 PM
Tell me how many games MW will play before his annual injury bug bites?

I would take Peterson in a heartbeat. (No injury issues and he's every bit the athletic freak MW is)

A plus in adeal like this is that the deal frees up MW's $$$$ to be a player in FA. Say you want ASO, trading MW gives you the $$$$ to do the deal. In addition to getting Peterson.

That's why this deal will never happen. That and the fact that Arizona would never do a trade for MW.

I'll say he plays 16 games this year, just like in 4 out of the 5 years he's been here. None of what Williams has shown on the field warrants the Texans trading him for the prudence of the organization that's just angry fan talk for "He's not performing up to my standard". Also, letting Mario Williams go to another team because of Free Agency money in this year (as of this post anyway) is patently stupid because there is no salary cap right now.

I'm just happy in knowing that none of what is presented in this thread actually has a chance of happening. It would be patently stupid to trade Mario, right now, for anything less than a couple of picks, 1 of them at least being a first.

Ndevine7
05-02-2011, 09:13 PM
I'll say he plays 16 games this year, just like in 4 out of the 5 years he's been here. None of what Williams has shown on the field warrants the Texans trading him for the prudence of the organization that's just angry fan talk for "He's not performing up to my standard". Also, letting Mario Williams go to another team because of Free Agency money in this year (as of this post anyway) is patently stupid because there is no salary cap right now.

I'm just happy in knowing that none of what is presented in this thread actually has a chance of happening. It would be patently stupid to trade Mario, right now, for anything less than a couple of picks, 1 of them at least being a first.

The only way i would trade Mario is if i received a 1st and 2nd this year as well as a 1st next year

badboy
05-02-2011, 10:15 PM
My focus is on Mario is under contract and his base I believe is around $4million. Cap hit higher but should not effect going after Nnamdi. We have to decide what to do with Mario and can trade him if the right offer appears. I hate to just allow him to go but doubt he will be worth to Texans what he can get on market. We can franchise tag him & then try to work a trade with whomever wants him. Hopefully, Watt will be ready to replace Williams if necessary. I am very ambivalent on Mario who has been a very good player but not what I hoped for.

Asomugha turned down $17 million from Oakland but that is not necessarily what he will get under a new contract. The contract could be backloaded as many are and a bonus of $25m spread over 5 year deal is a $5m/annual + $10m salary/annual should be enticing. I think our closest competitor so far is Dallas who has been picked to get to SB last two years by some. We compete with Romo rated higher than Schaub but Andre J. higher than Austin. Rb Dallas don't look so good. Foster NFL leader and Tate probably pretty good. Ware has more game impact but Mario should have pretty good year. If Aso looking to get a ring, we can give him as much as Dallas.

Texans now have about $6-8million in players released or others that could easily go. I think Aso would appreciate McNair over Davis so ASAP Bob ought to have his plane sitting in Aso's driceway bring him in for a Houston welcome. Hey it got us aother Super Bowl in Houston.

Hookem Horns
05-02-2011, 10:35 PM
I would be shocked if the Texans ever do anything that would get me excited. Bob's motto is "status quo" and until he starts doing some things to change my mind I am not even going to contemplate this stuff.

gafftop
05-03-2011, 10:06 AM
I would be shocked if the Texans ever do anything that would get me excited. Bob's motto is "status quo" and until he starts doing some things to change my mind I am not even going to contemplate this stuff.

I hear you. I know I started this thread with Aso in mind but I am not so sure it is a good idea to tie that much money into one player for a long period of time. The good thing is in the NFL you can let a player go unlike the other sports. I still feel thought should be given as to what to do with Mario in that this is his last year and he will be an UFA. I am hoping there is at least one team that would make a trade favorable to the Texans with respect to Mario. In reality there may not be offers. The other teams see what we see. Plus and this is the point, I don't think the Texan's braintrust is even considering it.

Your signoff makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time.

badboy
05-03-2011, 10:07 AM
The only way i would trade Mario is if i received a 1st and 2nd this year as well as a 1st next yearLordy, what makes you think he is worth that?

gafftop
05-03-2011, 04:44 PM
lordy, what makes you think he is worth that?

roflol

DocBar
05-04-2011, 05:41 AM
Lordy, what makes you think he is worth that?shaddap and drink your :koolaid: LOL

badboy
05-04-2011, 01:26 PM
shaddap and drink your :koolaid: LOLCharlie Pallilo when discussing a trade with me prior to draft IF CBA signed thought New England might trade #28 & #33. I wanted Taylor and Aaron Williams with Brandon Harris with our own #2. Still would have missed on Taylor & probably would have went with Ayers instead. Would have taken Watt # 11 to replace Mario.

Texecutioner
05-04-2011, 01:32 PM
Lordy, what makes you think he is worth that?

No one would pay that. He's not the hot commodity that he once was. You'd be lucky to get one first round pick for Mario.

DocBar
05-04-2011, 02:59 PM
Charlie Pallilo when discussing a trade with me prior to draft IF CBA signed thought New England might trade #28 & #33. I wanted Taylor and Aaron Williams with Brandon Harris with our own #2. Still would have missed on Taylor & probably would have went with Ayers instead. Would have taken Watt # 11 to replace Mario.Name dropping does NOT excuse you from drinking your kool aid. Maybe a note from CND, but not name dropping. It's tacky. :rofl:

gafftop
05-20-2011, 11:22 AM
Does this change your feelings ? Brian Baldinger
http://houston.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fcbshouston.files.wordpre ss.com%2F2011%2F05%2Fbrian-baldinger-5-19-11.mp3&podcast_name=Brian+Baldinger&podcast_artist=Ben+Nance&station_id=&audio_link=true&config_file=config.xml&dcid=CBS.HOUSTON

gafftop
05-20-2011, 11:32 AM
I know with the strike it is probably not feasible that we do anything this year. Big question next year will he be worth anything to the Texans? Do we franchise? I sure don't think he is worth a long term commitment. Texans by not doing anything will get nothing or worse.

gafftop
07-24-2011, 08:08 PM
Is it true that Mario cap figure is 20 MILLION this year. i can't believe he is 16% of the cap for this year.

Lucky
07-24-2011, 09:51 PM
I can't believe you brought this up from the grave. :gun:

On second thought, yes I can.:wadepalm:

thunderkyss
07-24-2011, 10:28 PM
Is it true that Mario cap figure is 20 MILLION this year. i can't believe he is 16% of the cap for this year.

If that number is true, Mario is untradeable.

Allstar
07-24-2011, 11:16 PM
If that number is true, Mario is untradeable.

Did you really expect Mario to even have the slightest chance of being traded? Wade has preached and preached how Mario is the cog that makes the defense work. :wadepalm:

Wolf6151
07-25-2011, 04:15 AM
Did you really expect Mario to even have the slightest chance of being traded? Wade has preached and preached how Mario is the cog that makes the defense work. :wadepalm:

I sure hope Wade hasn't been pumping sunshine up our ass.

gafftop
07-25-2011, 12:20 PM
i can't believe you brought this up from the grave. :gun:

On second thought, yes i can.:wadepalm:

lol

welsh texan
07-25-2011, 06:29 PM
Got to restructure Mario to a long term deal as first order of business, then we can go out there and target whoever we want for however much we want.

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 07:01 PM
good grief Mario is making $20 Million this season. Wow. Wasn't aware of that. He had better at least be a top 5 pass rusher this season.

b0ng
07-25-2011, 07:30 PM
good grief Mario is making $20 Million this season. Wow. Wasn't aware of that. He had better at least be a top 5 pass rusher this season.

Highest number I can find is $14m. Funnily enough the lowest I have seen is $3.75m.

MARIO WILLIAMS IS ONLY MAKING $3.75M!!11oneone.

badboy
07-25-2011, 07:40 PM
Got to restructure Mario to a long term deal as first order of business, then we can go out there and target whoever we want for however much we want.No thank you. I'll see what I get offered next off season after the tremendous year my new best friend Wade Phillips tells me I'm gonna have. signed Mario

gafftop
08-22-2011, 09:58 PM
Simplified possible Mario outcomes next season:
1. Plays good when healthy but has some type of nagging injury as last two years
2. Does not adapt to 3-4.
3. Plays great in his contract year

In 1 we get probably nothing or do we get compensation because we do not sign as we did with Dunta. Last pick in draft. LOL

In 2 same as 1

In 3, do you want to give Mario say 20+ million for the next 5 years based on his last year of performance. Say the cap is 120 million. If you divide in half, half for offense and half for defense, do you really want to give Mario 33% of all money for defense? I sure don't. DO YOU?

In reality probably no player is worth that large of % of cap. Maybe Peyton or Brady etc QBs of that caliber may be the only position that warrants that and even then it is a crap shoot because of injury.

The above is why I think IF you can get a good deal in a trade this year you do it.

It is very likely that other teams view Mario in the same way and will give nothing for him this year. I don't know. But if there are teams out that that covet him I think it should seriously be considered by the Texans.

I don't think Aso is a good deal based on reasoning above.
Just my opinion.

Here we are a few months later

gafftop
08-22-2011, 10:01 PM
i can't believe you brought this up from the grave. :gun:

On second thought, yes i can.:wadepalm:

lol

gafftop
10-14-2011, 02:05 PM
one of my main concerns and i think one of the main problems in getting something in a trade for mario is injury concerns. Every year he has "something" that causes him to play below optimum levels. This along with the change in defensive systems, his salary, and his inconsistent effort makes me want to make a trade. I do want it to be a good or at least a fair trade. I also think another year of injuries will lower his trade value. I think it is easier to get a d lineman than a true shutdown corner. If mario could play up to his potential then i would not be proposing this trade, but due to injuries he never has. I think you help yourself multiple ways with this trade. Along with the shutdown corner and a proven d lineman you either move up in the draft or get additional quality draft choices. I am afraid next year we will have a repeat of the carr/kubiak incident where kubiak realizes carr isn't the one and then gets nothing for carr. I could easily see this happening with mario/wade.

3/2011

HOU-TEX
10-14-2011, 02:19 PM
3/2011

Are you looking for one of these?

http://www.centurynovelty.com/catImages/209-680_large.jpg

fiasco west
10-14-2011, 02:27 PM
3/2011

The only thing you were right about was the injury.

As far as his play, he has 5 of the teams 15 sacks and again you hardly ever get 'nothing' in return in the NFL. If Mario walks or the Texans let him go they get cap space that could be used on a big name free agent.

Rey
10-14-2011, 02:39 PM
The Texans are not going to let Mario Walk. He will be re-signed at a high, but reasonable deal.

gafftop
10-14-2011, 02:45 PM
Looking for a winning football team. This front office is so shortsighted that they don't see the potential problems until they already occur. They needed a good WR this year but did nothing. They needed more help on D and maybe a Mario trade would have helped them in these regards. Putting all your eggs in one basket especially when that basket has a tendency to break is not the best plan. Now don't bring AJ into this discussion like you did before. With AJ you have a proven pro bowl player, with Mario all you had was a player with potential with a history of injuries. I think if anything I want a new front office( including head coach) because until there is a change there I think you get the same results, a .500 or worse football team.

Ole Miss Texan
10-14-2011, 02:46 PM
Well, it sucks Mario is out for the season. But even so, I'm so glad we didn't trade him. He was playing EXTREMELY well and I think he's a huge piece of why this defense was playing so well. IIRC part of the "trade" thought was to clear up space for Nnamdi. I'm PERFECTLY happy we got Johnathan Joseph who is playing outstanding.

As far as Mario's past injuries go... while they were more annoying than anything, they never were overly concerning to me. He is a tough dude who played through a lot, and even while doing that was consistently one of the best DEs in the league. It's easy to say he hasn't performed up to our liking... but he honestly has been one of the best over the past several years.

For all of Mario's lingering injuries... he still started 77 of his first 77 games as a pro. He never missed a start until Week 15 of his 5th season! Even at that we were completely out of the playoff picture and it was in the best interest of the team and Mario to shut him down, go ahead and get surgery and prepare him for 2011. After that, no offseason stuff, new DC and 'new' position... Mario was playing at an All-Pro level.

fiasco west
10-14-2011, 02:53 PM
Looking for a winning football team. This front office is so shortsighted that they don't see the potential problems until they already occur. They needed a good WR this year but did nothing. They needed more help on D and maybe a Mario trade would have helped them in these regards. Putting all your eggs in one basket especially when that basket has a tendency to break is not the best plan. Now don't bring AJ into this discussion like you did before. With AJ you have a proven pro bowl player, with Mario all you had was a player with potential with a history of injuries. I think if anything I want a new front office( including head coach) because until there is a change there I think you get the same results, a .500 or worse football team.

Okay see Mario has been to pro-bowls and named a All-pro player twice. He was WELL on that track this season. So i'd say his potential had been reached. Unless you expected Reggie White that is. Also that he has the 4th most sacks since entering the league and STILL has room to get better.

As far as his injuries. Hes played every single game in 4 of his 6 seasons. Last year he missed 3 games and this is his first year being on IR.

So this whole 'injury' problem sounds like something you've just now brought up. You want to see injury problems look at other Houston star players Tmac and Yao now those guys were out all the time.

Blake
10-14-2011, 03:06 PM
Okay see Mario has been to pro-bowls and named a All-pro player twice. He was WELL on that track this season. So i'd say his potential had been reached. Unless you expected Reggie White that is. Also that he has the 4th most sacks since entering the league and STILL has room to get better.

As far as his injuries. Hes played every single game in 4 of his 6 seasons. Last year he missed 3 games and this is his first year being on IR.

So this whole 'injury' problem sounds like something you've just now brought up. You want to see injury problems look at other Houston star players Tmac and Yao now those guys were out all the time.

Great post.

ChampionTexan
10-14-2011, 03:18 PM
Okay see Mario has been to pro-bowls and named a All-pro player twice. He was WELL on that track this season. So i'd say his potential had been reached. Unless you expected Reggie White that is. Also that he has the 4th most sacks since entering the league and STILL has room to get better.

As far as his injuries. Hes played every single game in 4 of his 6 seasons. Last year he missed 3 games and this is his first year being on IR.

So this whole 'injury' problem sounds like something you've just now brought up. You want to see injury problems look at other Houston star players Tmac and Yao now those guys were out all the time.

Edit:

VTexan
10-14-2011, 03:18 PM
3/2011

http://th903.photobucket.com/albums/ac234/antoneIIi/th_thkermit-masturbate.gif

steelbtexan
10-14-2011, 03:41 PM
Are you looking for one of these?

http://www.centurynovelty.com/catImages/209-680_large.jpg

LOL

Hate to admit it but looking back on it. He was right. He called MW getting hurt. Only this time he was knocked out for the seaso. Hindsight is 20/20 but trading MW was the right move.

Texecutioner
10-14-2011, 03:46 PM
LOL

Hate to admit it but looking back on it. He was right. He called MW getting hurt. Only this time he was knocked out for the seaso. Hindsight is 20/20 but trading MW was the right move.

I may have to disagree, but it's hard to say. I've been on the Mario is "overrated" bandwagon for quite some time now. However he really started playing well in this system this season and I thought it might make him even worse but it seemed to make him better. Now, 5 games is obviously not enough time to completely gauge at how well he would have done all season, but it looked like he was about to take off. I'm not sure you could have guessed that he would have been out all season long. My problem with Mario was always that he seemed to play with a lack of effort at times and take plays off. Not really his injuries.

I don't know if I could say that he should have been traded at this point. Not even after the injury. He was playing like a beast, so I'll back off of a lot of what my critique was on Mario for a while. At least until I can see more of what he could do in Wade's system.

badboy
10-14-2011, 03:52 PM
I can see Mario getting a 5 year $75-80 million contract from some team if not Texans.

Ole Miss Texan
10-14-2011, 03:52 PM
Prior ingrown toenails, plantar fascitis and sports hernia directly correlates to getting a torn pectoral muscle. Maybe Cloak can give some insight...

Cushing is often injured, Andre has missed a ton of games from injury, Schaub has gotten knocked around a lot while here. Should we trade these guys too?

badboy
10-14-2011, 03:57 PM
Prior ingrown toenails, plantar fascitis and sports hernia directly correlates to getting a torn pectoral muscle. Maybe Cloak can give some insight...

Cushing is often injured, Andre has missed a ton of games from injury, Schaub has gotten knocked around a lot while here. Should we trade these guys too?What his foot flew up and hit him in his chest? jk
:rake:

amazing80
10-14-2011, 04:22 PM
Looking for a winning football team. This front office is so shortsighted that they don't see the potential problems until they already occur. They needed a good WR this year but did nothing. They needed more help on D and maybe a Mario trade would have helped them in these regards. Putting all your eggs in one basket especially when that basket has a tendency to break is not the best plan. Now don't bring AJ into this discussion like you did before. With AJ you have a proven pro bowl player, with Mario all you had was a player with potential with a history of injuries. I think if anything I want a new front office( including head coach) because until there is a change there I think you get the same results, a .500 or worse football team.


LOL I guess it is true, no matter where you post, you still see stuff like this


So now our front office has to predict the future and injuries?

We needed a lot this off-season, but we damn near maxed out our salary with the moves we made, how were we going to sign a wr better than what we have? Mario has had issues, but hes played through most of them, I see him getting tagged at a DE pay rate and then we will judge his value based on next season.

badboy
10-14-2011, 04:28 PM
LOL I guess it is true, no matter where you post, you still see stuff like this


So now our front office has to predict the future and injuries?

We needed a lot this off-season, but we damn near maxed out our salary with the moves we made, how were we going to sign a wr better than what we have? Mario has had issues, but hes played through most of them, I see him getting tagged at a DE pay rate and then we will judge his value based on next season.where do you get that from?

amazing80
10-14-2011, 04:32 PM
where do you get that from?



Dont you remember a few key players restructuring their contracts to get us under the cap after we spent all that money on Joseph and Manning. We're right at our cap, next off-season will be a crazy one

drs23
10-14-2011, 05:06 PM
Dont you remember a few key players restructuring their contracts to get us under the cap after we spent all that money on Joseph and Manning. We're right at our cap, next off-season will be a crazy one

Next years cap goes up a minumum of 13 mil IIRC due to the new TV contracts. Then there's the borrow 3 mil from the future for 2 more years after this season. I'm not so sure it's as dire as some folks are saying IMO. I think Rick Smith did a good job of juggling the books to sign JJO and Manning and will be able to jiggle enough to do what he needs to do next season. If he has one here, that is.

thunderkyss
10-14-2011, 05:15 PM
Next years cap goes up a minumum of 13 mil IIRC due to the new TV contracts. Then there's the borrow 3 mil from the future for 2 more years after this season. I'm not so sure it's as dire as some folks are saying IMO. I think Rick Smith did a good job of juggling the books to sign JJO and Manning and will be able to jiggle enough to do what he needs to do next season. If he has one here, that is.

I think he's talking about the cap for the current year. The guy he was responding to was saying we should have done more than draft Brooks Reed in the second Round to "prepare" for Mario's injury.

amazing80
10-14-2011, 05:18 PM
I think he's talking about the cap for the current year. The guy he was responding to was saying we should have done more than draft Brooks Reed in the second Round to "prepare" for Mario's injury.

^^ This, next year will be interesting, but as the other guy said, we SHOULD be ok, even though we will be dishing out a ton of money on Mario, but for this season, there was literally nothing more we could have done.

Anthony713
10-14-2011, 05:37 PM
Okay see Mario has been to pro-bowls and named a All-pro player twice. He was WELL on that track this season. So i'd say his potential had been reached. Unless you expected Reggie White that is. Also that he has the 4th most sacks since entering the league.

He also has more sacks on Manning than anyone else in the league since he joined. And that is why we drafted him right?

Jackie Chiles
10-14-2011, 07:39 PM
I look forward to Mario being resigned, continuing to grow in this system and being extremely productive. That this scenario will likely piss gafftop off is a nice little bonus.

Allstar
10-14-2011, 07:56 PM
The only way gafftop is right is if we don't re-sign him. If that happens then he can continue to suck himself off. If not, then he'll continue looking foolish.

gafftop
10-18-2011, 08:19 AM
I look forward to Mario being resigned, continuing to grow in this system and being extremely productive. That this scenario will likely piss gafftop off is a nice little bonus.

You are correct. If the Texans sign Mario to a long term high dollar contrat I will be PISSED. If they franchise him as LB I will not be pissed at all. My whole premise for this thread was Mario had value. I thought the drop down from Mario to say Jamison would be justified if we could PU a 1A/ real 2 WR and a NFL caliber CB. I just think Mario was overated and that is when you can make a trade to improve your WHOLE team plus he always seems to have some sort of physical problem.

IDEXAN
10-18-2011, 08:28 AM
You are correct. If the Texans sign Mario to a long term high dollar contrat I will be PISSED. If they franchise him as LB I will not be pissed at all. My whole premise for this thread was Mario had value. I thought the drop down from Mario to say Jamison would be justified if we could PU a 1A/ real 2 WR and a NFL caliber CB. I just think Mario was overated and that is when you can make a trade to improve your WHOLE team plus he always seems to have some sort of physical problem.
How much difference did it make in the teams defensive performance Sunday with Mario not on the field ? Hard to say for sure, but they played very well until the last few minutes of the game. Now it's my understanding that Wade was basically rushing 5 guys throughout the Ravens game, and I'm wondering if he also did that when Mario was still in the lineup ? Just trying to measure defensive performance before and after Marios exit ? Mario's injury does give us 2/3 rds of a whole season to guage the defense minus Mario ?

beerlover
10-18-2011, 08:37 AM
How much difference did it make in the teams defensive performance Sunday with Mario not on the field ? Hard to say for sure, but they played very well until the last few minutes of the game. Now it's my understanding that Wade was basically rushing 5 guys throughout the Ravens game, and I'm wondering if he also did that when Mario was still in the lineup ? Just trying to measure defensive performance before and after Marios exit ? Mario's injury does give us 2/3 rds of a whole season to guage the defense minus Mario ?

With both a healthy Mario & Andre the Texans would have won that game, not to mention the game before & their record would be 5-1 instead of 3-3.

gafftop
10-18-2011, 08:45 AM
If a trade had been made and we had a 1A WR and a quality CB where would we be? Exact same team we have now only instead of Mario we have a 1A wr and a quality CB. Even before the Mario injury I would have been in favor of the WR and CB. I think Jamison played good. Just my opinion.

Kthx
10-18-2011, 08:48 AM
As much as I really like Mario I think right now after the season he had before he got hurt I think we sell high honestly. If we could get a good trade for him, or even a high draft pick, talking a late first or early second here we should do it. As much as I like him the guy is constantly injured. Like I said I realize how important he is but being able to have some cap room next season to pick up a FA or two, and being able to have another draft like last years with Watts/Reed/Harris (only this year a WR hopefully) would make us better than keeping him.

IDEXAN
10-18-2011, 08:54 AM
With both a healthy Mario & Andre the Texans would have won that game, not to mention the game before & their record would be 5-1 instead of 3-3.
That's probably true, but what can one say about injuries ? It's just bad luck and something a team has to live with ? Of course having a "deep" team is certainly the best hedge against injuries.
The cold, hard reality is that injuries (or the lack thereof) are probably the biggest variable in determining a teams chances of going into the playoffs ?

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 09:12 AM
If a trade had been made and we had a 1A WR and a quality CB where would we be? Exact same team we have now only instead of Mario we have a 1A wr and a quality CB. Even before the Mario injury I would have been in favor of the WR and CB. I think Jamison played good. Just my opinion.

Well.


Jamison played well.

gafftop
10-18-2011, 10:44 AM
Well.


Jamison played well.

Well there u have it. Jamison played well.

gafftop
11-03-2011, 02:45 PM
You are correct. If the Texans sign Mario to a long term high dollar contrat I will be PISSED. If they franchise him as LB I will not be pissed at all. My whole premise for this thread was Mario had value. I thought the drop down from Mario to say Jamison would be justified if we could PU a 1A/ real 2 WR and a NFL caliber CB. I just think Mario was overated and that is when you can make a trade to improve your WHOLE team plus he always seems to have some sort of physical problem.

Heard today that the franchise cost on Mario is about 20 mill. When I made statement above I thought his franchise cost would be 10 mill as a LB. Sorry at 20 mill or 1/7 of whole salary cap for the TExans for next year I would say pass. Just don't sign him to a big dollar long term contract. Just my opinion.

badboy
11-03-2011, 03:04 PM
Heard today that the franchise cost on Mario is about 20 mill. When I made statement above I thought his franchise cost would be 10 mill as a LB. Sorry at 20 mill or 1/7 of whole salary cap for the TExans for next year I would say pass. Just don't sign him to a big dollar long term contract. Just my opinion.I think you are a bit high. His capis just over $15m with salary a bit lower.
http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Houston-Texans-Salaries
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/mario-williams/

Salaries and true cap hits are hard to find but this should be very close.

BullNation4Life
11-03-2011, 03:06 PM
I say trade Mario to the Eagles for Rodgers-Cromartie and a 1st round pick. I hate to see him go, but I have a bad feeling that if they sign him to a new contract, his number of games played will start to dwindle as the years go on...

Sucks but do whats best for the team for the future...

Dutchrudder
11-03-2011, 03:08 PM
I think you are a bit high. His capis just over $15m with salary a bit lower.
http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Houston-Texans-Salaries
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/mario-williams/

Salaries and true cap hits are hard to find but this should be very close.

I think he means next year to franchise Mario it will cost close to 20 million, assuming they don't sign him to a longterm deal.

Dutchrudder
11-03-2011, 03:14 PM
I say trade Mario to the Eagles for Rodgers-Cromartie and a 1st round pick. I hate to see him go, but I have a bad feeling that if they sign him to a new contract, his number of games played will start to dwindle as the years go on...

Sucks but do whats best for the team for the future...

They don't need any more pass-rushing DEs. But you know who may have use for him? The Jags, Titans, Broncos, Vikings, maybe the Raiders or San Diego...

It will be interesting to see what they do with him, but I expect him to be re-signed for a boatload of money because we have to make sure the NFL knows we made the right choice in 2006.

BullNation4Life
11-03-2011, 03:15 PM
I think he means next year to franchise Mario it will cost close to 20 million, assuming they don't sign him to a longterm deal.

I heard 24 million on the radio...DAMN that's allot of scratch for one year...

BullNation4Life
11-03-2011, 03:17 PM
They don't need any more pass-rushing DEs. But you know who may have use for him? The Jags, Titans, Broncos, Vikings, maybe the Raiders or San Diego...

It will be interesting to see what they do with him, but I expect him to be re-signed for a boatload of money because we have to make sure the NFL knows we made the right choice in 2006.

No, no if I am trading Mario, it's to the NFC. No way in hell do I take the chance of having to face him twice a year.... Schaub would go fetal position for sure if he saw that monster coming at him...

Maybe talk to the Saints or even Carolina, he's from that part of the world...

Dutchrudder
11-03-2011, 03:18 PM
Heard today that the franchise cost on Mario is about 20 mill. When I made statement above I thought his franchise cost would be 10 mill as a LB. Sorry at 20 mill or 1/7 of whole salary cap for the TExans for next year I would say pass. Just don't sign him to a big dollar long term contract. Just my opinion.

I think you are a bit high. His capis just over $15m with salary a bit lower.
http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Houston-Texans-Salaries
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/mario-williams/

Salaries and true cap hits are hard to find but this should be very close.

I looked it up on wiki:

An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams.

120% of 14.8 million is 17.76 million (Patriotic, eh?). That's how much it will cost for Mario to play under the franchise tag next year. That's an insane amount and it puts the front office in a bad spot for negotiating if they tag him. Last year, the F tag cost for a DE was 12.4 million, 9.7 million for a linebacker. So suppose he was tagged, and Rick Smith starts negotiations with Mario's agent. A likely offer would be somewhere in the range of 9 million a year over 4-5 years. Why not play under the tag for 8 million more and then go get a big contract the next year? He's young enough to not have to worry about it. Might be worth his time to cash out in 2013 instead of 2012, similar to what Dunta did.

Dutchrudder
11-03-2011, 03:23 PM
No, no if I am trading Mario, it's to the NFC. No way in hell do I take the chance of having to face him twice a year.... Schaub would go fetal position for sure if he saw that monster coming at him...

Maybe talk to the Saints or even Carolina, he's from that part of the world...

Yeah, Carolina is rebuilding still, and I could see them going for a DE in the 1st this year. Quinton Couples would make a lot of sense for them if they have a top 5 pick, but they could also go with a WR in that spot. Maybe they go after Mario in free agency and take a WR or OT with their 1st. I dunno, I just don't see any team giving up a 1st and a 3rd to get Mario after these last two season's injuries.

badboy
11-03-2011, 10:27 PM
I looked it up on wiki:



120% of 14.8 million is 17.76 million (Patriotic, eh?). That's how much it will cost for Mario to play under the franchise tag next year. That's an insane amount and it puts the front office in a bad spot for negotiating if they tag him. Last year, the F tag cost for a DE was 12.4 million, 9.7 million for a linebacker. So suppose he was tagged, and Rick Smith starts negotiations with Mario's agent. A likely offer would be somewhere in the range of 9 million a year over 4-5 years. Why not play under the tag for 8 million more and then go get a big contract the next year? He's young enough to not have to worry about it. Might be worth his time to cash out in 2013 instead of 2012, similar to what Dunta did.To clarify when I responded to Gafftop's post #217, I thought he was talking about Mario's cost for the 2011 season. You are saying he was talking about next season's cost I take it?

badboy
11-03-2011, 10:54 PM
I looked it up on wiki:



120% of 14.8 million is 17.76 million (Patriotic, eh?). That's how much it will cost for Mario to play under the franchise tag next year. That's an insane amount and it puts the front office in a bad spot for negotiating if they tag him. Last year, the F tag cost for a DE was 12.4 million, 9.7 million for a linebacker. So suppose he was tagged, and Rick Smith starts negotiations with Mario's agent. A likely offer would be somewhere in the range of 9 million a year over 4-5 years. Why not play under the tag for 8 million more and then go get a big contract the next year? He's young enough to not have to worry about it. Might be worth his time to cash out in 2013 instead of 2012, similar to what Dunta did.True but do you think any team will pay Mario $18m salary for one year? No way. He knows that. He will take the deal that suits him best. For example, he could be offered a 6 year (27 years old next Jan) contract $80m. $25 m bonus divided by 6 (to determine cap) He would avg $9 m salary + $4m bonus = $13m salary cap hit. He gets $25m upfront and guaranteed two year salary ($18m). So 1st year he has the $9m salary + 25m bonus= $34m. Think he'd sign that rather than take a franchise tag? Benefit to team is he can be cut after two years costing team only $4m against cap/year. With $25m up front he could be pursuaded to take a smaller salary first two season to backload the deal. That happens and if I am right his first contract was similar.

A $13million cap hit for an OLB that should get 15 sacks a season or a disruptive DE like he has provened to be is reasonable. I think we would get 2-3 trade offers IF we decided not to keep him. His cap hit this season $14m and cap is expected to increase about that much next year. So we can re-sign him at about same under the $120m cap(of this year) and still have the increase next season of about $14m to spend elsewhere + the other amounts allowed by new CBA. What could we do with another first and second round selections + $14m saved by trading Mario +$14m in increased cap space + $3million allowed in new CBA? That's $31million plus an extra first and second round to select or trade.

badboy
11-03-2011, 10:58 PM
Yeah, Carolina is rebuilding still, and I could see them going for a DE in the 1st this year. Quinton Couples would make a lot of sense for them if they have a top 5 pick, but they could also go with a WR in that spot. Maybe they go after Mario in free agency and take a WR or OT with their 1st. I dunno, I just don't see any team giving up a 1st and a 3rd to get Mario after these last two season's injuries.Probably not a top 15 one and two but what about N.E. at 30 & 31 or 31 and #63? Leaving PATs with a first and second to draft.

silvrhand
11-04-2011, 12:04 AM
Or we could simly give him a decent offer at about 7-8 million a year and tell him take it or leave it. He hasn't played a full season in two years..

Texn4life
11-04-2011, 12:18 AM
Cleveland may be in the market for a pass rusher too. And they have 2 first round picks so that's another team that may be willing to give up a lot for a premier Defensive End since they switched back to the 4-3 this year.

dalemurphy
11-04-2011, 05:47 AM
I looked it up on wiki:



120% of 14.8 million is 17.76 million (Patriotic, eh?). That's how much it will cost for Mario to play under the franchise tag next year. That's an insane amount and it puts the front office in a bad spot for negotiating if they tag him. Last year, the F tag cost for a DE was 12.4 million, 9.7 million for a linebacker. So suppose he was tagged, and Rick Smith starts negotiations with Mario's agent. A likely offer would be somewhere in the range of 9 million a year over 4-5 years. Why not play under the tag for 8 million more and then go get a big contract the next year? He's young enough to not have to worry about it. Might be worth his time to cash out in 2013 instead of 2012, similar to what Dunta did.


A cap number north of $10 million would mean that Arian Foster doesn't get a new deal, Schaub doesn't get extended, and we are unable to go get anyone significant in free agency. NO THANKS! If we let Mario walk without a trade, the trade is the cap room to do other business. The only way Mario is a Texan next year is if they sign him to a long term deal. The long term deal, even if it is for huge dollars, will be much more cap friendly the first few years... Still, I wouldn't want him for anything more than 5 yrs and $45 million.

TEXANRED
11-04-2011, 06:27 AM
A cap number north of $10 million would mean that Arian Foster doesn't get a new deal, Schaub doesn't get extended, and we are unable to go get anyone significant in free agency. NO THANKS! If we let Mario walk without a trade, the trade is the cap room to do other business. The only way Mario is a Texan next year is if they sign him to a long term deal. The long term deal, even if it is for huge dollars, will be much more cap friendly the first few years... Still, I wouldn't want him for anything more than 5 yrs and $45 million.

If it came down between Mario or Schaub I would take Mario any day of the week.

Rey
11-04-2011, 06:36 AM
If it came down between Mario or Schaub I would take Mario any day of the week.

As much as I want to agree I just cannot.

The defense can still be successful as a unit without Mario.

Don't have a good qb and your offense is going to ****. Schaub is pretty good and by the sheer nature of his position that increases his value ten fold.

Texn4life
11-04-2011, 06:41 AM
As much as I want to agree I just cannot.

The defense can still be successful as a unit without Mario.

Don't have a good qb and your offense is going to ****. Schaub is pretty good and by the sheer nature of his position that increases his value ten fold.

I agree with you here...... While its hard to replace a guy like Mario because at times he can dominate one-on-one match ups, we've seen Wade do some things scheme wise to still apply pressure after he went out.

Its much more difficult to find a QB to step in and run this offense the way Matt does. Sure he's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I think he may be a little bit undervalued by some people. I'm all for drafting a QB of the future maybe in the next couple of drafts, but I'm not ready to start all over with another guy at this point unless we're replacing him with a veteran who can step in and produce right away. And there aren't many guys who are head and shoulders above Matt talent wise in the league who would be available to replace him with.

dalemurphy
11-04-2011, 06:47 AM
If it came down between Mario or Schaub I would take Mario any day of the week.

That's just silly! If Mario was healthy but Schaub was out for the year, do you think we would be in the position we are in? or better?

You want to go with Leinart? a rookie QB? or someone on the scrap-heap this off-season? Thank God you aren't making decisions for the Texans!

Without Mario, the Texans are in the top 10 in defense in almost every category. Take Schaub away from the offense, the offense would be in the bottom half of the league in almost every category.

Imatexanfan
11-04-2011, 06:48 AM
Yawl have to count in that when MW does play, he almost always gets double-teamed which leaves open holes in the opponents O-line...he is still a big weapon but I am starting to come to terms that it is time to see what we can get for him this offseason.

The fact that IF we trade em to an AFC South team is absurd, we DO NOT want to face this guy twice a year, it will be the VY incident all over again...we do not want that...

dalemurphy
11-04-2011, 07:14 AM
Yawl have to count in that when MW does play, he almost always gets double-teamed which leaves open holes in the opponents O-line...he is still a big weapon but I am starting to come to terms that it is time to see what we can get for him this offseason.

The fact that IF we trade em to an AFC South team is absurd, we DO NOT want to face this guy twice a year, it will be the VY incident all over again...we do not want that...

I don't agree with this philosophy. If you are trading an asset, I believe you take the best compensation you can get, regardless of whether he is in the division or conference. You have to trust your decision-making. If the organization determines Mario is not worth his price then he isn't a very good value for Jacksonville or Tennessee either. If they offer more compensation, take it and stick them with an overpaid, injury-riddled, DE.

TEXANRED
11-04-2011, 07:24 AM
That's just silly! If Mario was healthy but Schaub was out for the year, do you think we would be in the position we are in? or better?

You want to go with Leinart? a rookie QB? or someone on the scrap-heap this off-season? Thank God you aren't making decisions for the Texans!

Without Mario, the Texans are in the top 10 in defense in almost every category. Take Schaub away from the offense, the offense would be in the bottom half of the league in almost every category.

If Rosenfels hadn't pulled a Rosencopter he would be our starting QB right now. Schaub is nothing special, good or bad. Mario is special. Out of 64 starting DE's in the league he is a top ten. Schaub is a top 15 out of 32.

TEXANJAK
11-04-2011, 07:27 AM
Let's shop Mario. Defense is not missing enough to hurt us. Besides Foster is going to need the money.

Rey
11-04-2011, 08:10 AM
I'd be more inclined to trade Demeco before I traded Mario.

Texan_Bill
11-04-2011, 08:23 AM
Or we could simly give him a decent offer at about 7-8 million a year and tell him take it or leave it. He hasn't played a full season in two years..

This!!

thunderkyss
11-04-2011, 08:30 AM
Take Schaub away from the offense, the offense would be in the bottom half of the league in almost every category.

I don't know if that's true. We simply don't know.

I don't think it is good business to try to find out or anything, but the fact of the matter is that we do not know.

Have we ever had another QB step in with this OL? With Ben Tate & Arian Foster in the backfield? With Dressen, Cassey, & OD?

I don't think so. Bottom line, Schaub isn't a gamer, he takes what he can get & that's it. It works fine for us, he's pretty good at it & our offense is ranked pretty high because of it. However, I think the argument can be made that it is just as much because of the system & play-makers around Schaub as it is Schaub.

Again, it would be stupid to drop Schaub to keep Mario & see what Lienart or some other unproven or failed-at-a-previous-stop QB can do. But we signed Schaub to big money before he played a down...

At the same time, I'd look at what Washington is doing with the Shanahans, Grossman, & Beck...... not very enticing if you ask me. But they don't have an Arian Foster or a gel'n OLine.

thunderkyss
11-04-2011, 08:37 AM
I'd be more inclined to trade Demeco before I traded Mario.

I think a lot of people think this way. Even though he has been a better player for this club than Mario has from day one. He's a gamer & a true leader.

He had an injury that will most likely negatively affect his play for the rest of his career. But we've yet to see what he can bring to this system, this defense. He's not 100% healthy yet, & this has been his only injury that I can think of.

I just think it's a little early to start counting him out. I'll wait to see what he does over the second half of the season & in the play-offs before I make that decision.

Rey
11-04-2011, 08:44 AM
I think a lot of people think this way. Even though he has been a better player for this club than Mario has from day one. He's a gamer & a true leader.

He had an injury that will most likely negatively affect his play for the rest of his career. But we've yet to see what he can bring to this system, this defense. He's not 100% healthy yet, & this has been his only injury that I can think of.

I just think it's a little early to start counting him out. I'll wait to see what he does over the second half of the season & in the play-offs before I make that decision.


I'm not really counting him out, but Cushing is the LB that is in on all packages at this point. I don't know Demeco's snap count but it seems pretty low. With the big contract we just paid him it seems like we can get that kind of production and play time for cheaper with someone that is younger, healthier and more athletic.

We'd be losing some leadership, that's for sure...

In a perfect world I'd like to get keep everyone. I actually think that is what is going to happen by the way, but for discussion's sake if I were just making what I thought would be the best decision for the team I'd trade Demeco or ask him to restructure so we could bring all his buddies back and add more help.

Kthx
11-04-2011, 08:50 AM
I don't know man, DeMeco is like Houstons Lewis, I think even though his production is down this year due to injury that he will be back next season at a higher level especially considering he will have a full off-season of trainer backed workouts instead of on his own. We are a really really young team and sometimes you just can't assign a dollar value on the experience and leadership a player brings to the table.

Texn4life
11-04-2011, 08:57 AM
I don't know man, DeMeco is like Houstons Lewis, I think even though his production is down this year due to injury that he will be back next season at a higher level especially considering he will have a full off-season of trainer backed workouts instead of on his own. We are a really really young team and sometimes you just can't assign a dollar value on the experience and leadership a player brings to the table.

I agree with you to a certain extent on retaining guys with leadership and experience, but if it comes down to a situation of letting go of DeMeco in order to make sure the other guys get signed then I'd do it. There will be other vets who will be on the market next year that won't demand that much money. Its a tough situation though, and hopefully we'll be able to keep all of them. Just hope DeMeco hits his stride these last 6 games and finds a way to be more of an impact player dealing with his injuries. Its a lot to ask of the guy I know, but we'll need him at some point in the season.

Kthx
11-04-2011, 09:04 AM
Yeah I would agree with you also but I will stick to what I said during the whole Cushbeast overtraining saga.

I told everyone who was freaking out over his bad season that no matter how many steroids you do it doesn't make you a smarter player, it doesn't help put you in position to make tackles, it doesn't make help you judge where to play coverage.

I will say the same thing in regards to DeMeco, assuming he gets his speed back (well see after the injury) even if he loses a tiny bit of power and speed he still hopefully has that instinct to be where he needs to be when he needs to be there.

Texn4life
11-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Yeah I would agree with you also but I will stick to what I said during the whole Cushbeast overtraining saga.

I told everyone who was freaking out over his bad season that no matter how many steroids you do it doesn't make you a smarter player, it doesn't help put you in position to make tackles, it doesn't make help you judge where to play coverage.

I will say the same thing in regards to DeMeco, assuming he gets his speed back (well see after the injury) even if he loses a tiny bit of power and speed he still hopefully has that instinct to be where he needs to be when he needs to be there.

Unfortunately these are some of the decisions that playoff teams have to deal with. Guys step up and play above the level they're currently paid, and tough choices have to be made about who to keep and who to let go of. I'll wait until the end of the year to make any kind of judgement on Meco, and what we do with Mario. Things could change a lot between now and March.

Kthx
11-04-2011, 09:14 AM
I can live with what you just said, internet high five Tex.

thunderkyss
11-04-2011, 09:15 AM
I'm not really counting him out, but Cushing is the LB that is in on all packages at this point. I don't know Demeco's snap count but it seems pretty low. With the big contract we just paid him it seems like we can get that kind of production and play time for cheaper with someone that is younger, healthier and more athletic.

We'd be losing some leadership, that's for sure...

In a perfect world I'd like to get keep everyone. I actually think that is what is going to happen by the way, but for discussion's sake if I were just making what I thought would be the best decision for the team I'd trade Demeco or ask him to restructure so we could bring all his buddies back and add more help.

I think once he's healthy, we'll see how much playing time he gets. right now, we take out the NT when we go nickel & an ILB when we go dime, then bring in a safety. With a healthy Demeco, we'll probably go to less dime packages.