PDA

View Full Version : CB Stanford Routt signs with Chiefs


srrono
02-09-2012, 04:37 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/227665/raiders-release-top-corner-stanford-routt

t's not clear if the surprising move is for financial reasons or if Routt did something incur the wrath of the new regime. Routt had restructured his contract last August to five years and $54.5 million, an exorbitant number even for the team's top cover corner.


Pro Football Weekly @ProFootballWkly
Stanford Routt played in all 16 games last year and set career-highs with 15 passes defensed and four interceptions.


Well, here’s the first big surprising move of the offseason.

Oakland released cornerback Stanford Routt on Thursday, less than a year after the team gave him a “five-year, $54.5 million” contract. (It was originally a three-year, $31.5 million deal, then the team restructured the deal.)

Of course, Al Davis was the one who gave Routt that contract in 2011. G.M. Reggie McKenzie has since arrived and clearly doesn’t see Routt as a cornerback worth more than $10 million-per-season.

It’s a surprising move because it was reported last year that Routt’s $5 million 2012 base salary was guaranteed. It’s possible it was only guaranteed if Routt was on the roster past a certain date. (Once again, even “guaranteed” money isn’t always guaranteed.)

Routt started last season well and enjoyed a fine 2010 season, but he struggled badly down the stretch. He got picked on often despite having the tag as Oakland’s top cornerback.

As a 28-year-old with a lot of starting experience, Routt figures to attract plenty of free agent interest. For Routt, free agency starts Friday.



CB stats
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/12/cornerbacks-a-glance-at-the-2011-numbers/

Dutchrudder
02-09-2012, 04:47 PM
HOLY CRAP! That was a short-lived deal. He is a UoH guy, maybe he's interested in a cheaper deal to play in Houston? I think he would be fine as a #2 CB in our system.

Rey
02-09-2012, 05:05 PM
Depending on how much he wants I'd take a look. Kj is serviceable. How will he perform taking all of the #2 reps at corner? I don't know. Will he show expoential growth heading into year 3 as he did going into year 2? Again, I dunno. Rout is intriguing to me though because I think hed definitely be good enough to take all the #2 snaps.

Dutchrudder
02-09-2012, 05:09 PM
Some tweets about it:

Adam Caplan: Stanford Routt's $5 million base salary was guaranteed if he was still on the roster as of Friday, a source confirmed.

Evan Silva: Stanford Routt can sign immediately because he was cut; contract didn't expire. 28-year-old press CB w/ great speed (4.27), size (6'1/195).

Ranking the top FA CBs: 1) B. Grimes 2) Finnegan 3) B. Carr 4) Routt 5) C. Rogers 6) Terrell Thomas 7) R. Mathis (knee)

srrono
02-09-2012, 05:11 PM
Depending on how much he wants I'd take a look. Kj is serviceable. How will he perform taking all of the #2 reps at corner? I don't know. Will he show expoential growth heading into year 3 as he did going into year 2? Again, I dunno. Rout is intriguing to me though because I think hed definitely be good enough to take all the #2 snaps.

I agree with you and plus as we all know speed is not a factor with Routt.

srrono
02-09-2012, 05:17 PM
ProFootballFocus.com @ProFootbalFocus
Routt graded reasonably well in coverage, and numbers are OK, but offset a LOT of receiving yardage with penalty yardage. Skews data

RED FLAG

ProFootballFocus.com @ProFootbalFocus
Routt also allowed 9 TDs last season, which is more than any other CB surrendered

ProFootballFocus.com @ProFootbalFocus
Not saying Routt can't play, but he was being vastly overpaid. Can be a reasonable pickup for a team on a more sensible contract.

Bulls on Parade
02-09-2012, 05:25 PM
I like the idea of signing him if there was enough cap space. He would give up a lot less Touchdowns playing with the Texans because of their great pass rush.

gg no re
02-09-2012, 05:33 PM
How did he rank as a corner when Nnamdi was on the other side of the field?

gary
02-09-2012, 05:53 PM
Some tweets about it:

Adam Caplan: Stanford Routt's $5 million base salary was guaranteed if he was still on the roster as of Friday, a source confirmed.

Evan Silva: Stanford Routt can sign immediately because he was cut; contract didn't expire. 28-year-old press CB w/ great speed (4.27), size (6'1/195).

Ranking the top FA CBs: 1) B. Grimes 2) Finnegan 3) B. Carr 4) Routt 5) C. Rogers 6) Terrell Thomas 7) R. Mathis (knee)Any of these would be an upgrade for the Texans.

Goatcheese
02-09-2012, 06:21 PM
How did he rank as a corner when Nnamdi was on the other side of the field?

I don't have my archive Hard drive with me, but I seem to recall him giving up something over 2.00 yards per play in coverage and falling outside of the top 100 in those metrics in 2009(the last year I charted). For comparison Asomuga was giving up something ridiculous like 0.25 YPPIC, and Dunta Robinson, who received a similar contract, was giving up just ~0.8

I was shocked when they gave him a huge contract.

srrono
02-09-2012, 07:58 PM
Stanford Routt's agent William Vann McElroy told me, "Stanford already has visits planned with Buffalo and Tennessee."

Evan Silva @evansilva
#Titans quick show of interest in Stanford Routt suggests franchise tagging Cortland Finnegan is not in plans. Finnegan should hit market.

Doppelganger
02-10-2012, 02:19 PM
This is just yet another in a long line of face palm moments from the Raiders. They signed Nnamdi Asomugha to a deal and then put in a clause that could void the contract which allowed him to leave. They sign Routt, a #2 CB to #1 CB money and then are surprised he doesn't live up to the deal and cut him after 1 season.

Perhaps we should trade them Kareem Jackson and Jason Allen for their 2013 first rounder. After all, Oakland would be getting the better end of the deal since they would be getting 2 first rounders and we would only be getting 1, right?!

badboy
02-10-2012, 03:28 PM
I'd like to see him in our D at reasonable incentive base contract. Especially if Oakland picks up any costs? If year one not guaranteed, I believe he is fee to negotiate complete new deal with any team. WIth Joesph next to him and our guys behind him and our front 7.....could be a great pick up.

ChampionTexan
02-10-2012, 03:36 PM
I'd like to see him in our D at reasonable incentive base contract. Especially if Oakland picks up any costs? If year one not guaranteed, I believe he is fee to negotiate complete new deal with any team. WIth Joesph next to him and our guys behind him and our front 7.....could be a great pick up.

There are way too many teams who need a starting CB (or two) for that to be a even semi-realistic hope. The Oakland contract will not defray any costs, and what difference does it make if year one's not guaranteed unless you plan on waiving him before it's over?

badboy
02-10-2012, 03:49 PM
There are way too many teams who need a starting CB (or two) for that to be a even semi-realistic hope. The Oakland contract will not defray any costs, and what difference does it make if year one's not guaranteed unless you plan on waiving him before it's over?To clarify my post; if Oakland did pay something on his contract that would reduce first year costs to team signing him, but I said I did no think that was the case. I think Texans would have already set up interview if interested.

Dutchrudder
02-10-2012, 03:54 PM
To clarify my post; if Oakland did pay something on his contract that would reduce first year costs to team signing him, but I said I did no think that was the case. I think Texans would have already set up interview if interested.

That can only be the case in a trade or a waiver claim. Routt is a vet with more than 4 years experience and is not on waivers. He is an unrestricted free agent now who can sign with any team. However, he will get a good chunk of money from the Raiders anyways. 20 million minus whatever he made last year, although that figure is fuzzy at the moment.

ArlingtonTexan
02-10-2012, 04:56 PM
Routt has been the bad part of Jason allen more than bad Jason allen has been bad Jason Allen..i.e. he rarely makes up for the awful stuff with the pure ball skills and speed that Allen manages to get away with.

badboy
02-10-2012, 08:16 PM
That can only be the case in a trade or a waiver claim. Routt is a vet with more than 4 years experience and is not on waivers. He is an unrestricted free agent now who can sign with any team. However, he will get a good chunk of money from the Raiders anyways. 20 million minus whatever he made last year, although that figure is fuzzy at the moment.So you agree he could dcide money not main issue and come to Texans wanting to show his worth sort of like Pollard did?

badboy
02-10-2012, 08:20 PM
Routt has been the bad part of Jason allen more than bad Jason allen has been bad Jason Allen..i.e. he rarely makes up for the awful stuff with the pure ball skills and speed that Allen manages to get away with.I think he had 4 INTs 2011; maybe our DB coach could help him as he have the rest of our guys?

gary
02-11-2012, 11:36 AM
Would you sign a free agent corner or Mario if you had the choice?

Dutchrudder
02-11-2012, 12:53 PM
So you agree he could dcide money not main issue and come to Texans wanting to show his worth sort of like Pollard did?

Oh, well if you mean his personal preferences, then yeah I suppose he may be willing to take less money to sign with a good team to prove himself, kind of like Carlos Rodgers did with the 49ers last year. I thought you were saying that his contract would be less of a cap hit because the Raiders were picking up part of the tab. The Raiders will have a good amount of dead money this year due to releasing him, but it won't effect any other team's cap number.

In any case, I think Routt will sign within a week or two and get decent money in the neighborhood of 3-5 mill a year for a couple years. His money will be determined by the amount of bidders though, and given that he already has some visits scheduled, I don't think the Texans will have a chance to sign him. The Texans can't do anything until the Mario/Myers/Foster situations are handled. I'm OK with that though, because I think there are better CB values in free agency.

badboy
02-11-2012, 01:23 PM
Would you sign a free agent corner or Mario if you had the choice?Mario without a doubt. There is no free agent corner that equals him as a player.

gary
02-12-2012, 10:50 AM
Mario without a doubt. There is no free agent corner that equals him as a player.No, but given the defense now I might just sign a corner for much less and then draft an OLB.

badboy
02-12-2012, 01:58 PM
No, but given the defense now I might just sign a corner for much less and then draft an OLB.Yeah I have been voicing what we could do with Mario's cap & if lucky draft picks received. I and others have mentioned New England as a perfect fit as they have 2 picks in first and second. I think CBs in free agency is not where we should go due to lack of talent. Dwayne Bowe WR Kansas City and Hick OG for Saints could be had for the $17 to $20m Mario cost and we could use our second round #58 for Vinny Curry who hade 74 tackles and 11 sacks.

We use our #26 on slot WR Kendall Wright (JJ and KW cap added as they are cut). Then use Pats first on Peter Konz Wisconsin center.

Playoffs
02-12-2012, 07:25 PM
ProFootballFocus.com @ProFootbalFocus
Routt graded reasonably well in coverage, and numbers are OK, but offset a LOT of receiving yardage with penalty yardage. Skews data

RED FLAG
Routt was worst in the league in TDs allowed and worst in penalties -- dangerous combination.

Goldensilence
02-12-2012, 09:23 PM
Would you sign a free agent corner or Mario if you had the choice?

I don't think anyone in this FA class, except MAYBE Carlos Rodgers will be worth it in FA.

I think this question essentially framed is the old question of elite pass rusher or shutdown corner.

I think, especially given being in a 3-4 its easier for a guy to grow into at least a very serviceable pass rusher. On the other hand, I think other than franchise QB the next hardest position to find elite performance at is CB.

If it was my call I'd sign a guy like Nnamdi Aso to the big contract in this defense vs Mario. Not saying Mario is chopped liver, but having JJ and Aso locking down the outside you got more time for your high motor guys to get to the QB.

:2cents:

ThaShark316
02-13-2012, 05:37 PM
Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora

Former Raiders CB Stanford Routt visiting BUF today, KC tomorrow and HOU, DAL and TEN later this week.

Ryan
02-13-2012, 05:38 PM
Per La Canfora

Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora
Former Raiders CB Stanford Routt visiting BUF today, KC tomorrow and HOU, DAL and TEN later this week.

Texn4life
02-13-2012, 05:43 PM
Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora

Former Raiders CB Stanford Routt visiting BUF today, KC tomorrow and HOU, DAL and TEN later this week.

I think Vance Joseph and Wade could really get this guy playing at a high level. However I think we'll be outbid for his services.

Rey
02-13-2012, 05:53 PM
Houston is probably the best team on that list. Will he take a fair deal from us to come home and play on a really good young defense.

Naiirb
02-13-2012, 05:54 PM
Reportedly he will be vising Houston this week

Former Raiders CB Stanford Routt visiting BUF today, KC tomorrow and HOU, DAL and TEN later this week.

XI CMURDER IX
02-13-2012, 05:55 PM
I think he was pretty good during his years with Nmandi in Oakland. Not much of a premier guy but would make a better #2 than KJ or Allen.

Mr. Texan
02-13-2012, 05:56 PM
while he racks up a lot of penalties maybe wade and joseph can help perfect his technique :kitten:

gary
02-13-2012, 06:13 PM
Does this mean they will let Mario just walk and use his money elsewhere? It sure looks that way.

thunderkyss
02-13-2012, 06:21 PM
Does this mean they will let Mario just walk and use his money elsewhere? It sure looks that way.

What gives you that idea?

This has nothing to do with Mario. They may want to see where his head is at. If he's thinking he's a #1 & will get #1 offers from the rest of the league, the Texans may very well pass on him.

If he thinks he can contribute & take Jason Allen type money, it may behove us to try to sign him.

We also may be testing the waters... to see what capital our play-off appearance has earned us with FAs.

Cerberus
02-13-2012, 06:24 PM
I think Vance Joseph and Wade could really get this guy playing at a high level. However I think we'll be outbid for his services.

I think he was pretty good during his years with Nmandi in Oakland. Not much of a premier guy but would make a better #2 than KJ or Allen.

while he racks up a lot of penalties maybe wade and joseph can help perfect his technique :kitten:

While he does get a lot of penalties (which can be attributed to playing in S&B), Routt actually statistically ranks as one of the better DBs in the NFL. I'm not going to look it up right now, but his numbers have been up there with Revis' numbers with regard to percentages.

Wolf
02-13-2012, 06:29 PM
Texans exploring every option. I am not saying they need to break he bank for this guy, but if one guy were to get injured on defense , I do not want it to be j-Jo . (at this time,draft and such ....pending)

amazing80
02-13-2012, 06:38 PM
What gives you that idea?

This has nothing to do with Mario. They may want to see where his head is at. If he's thinking he's a #1 & will get #1 offers from the rest of the league, the Texans may very well pass on him.

If he thinks he can contribute & take Jason Allen type money, it may behove us to try to sign him.

We also may be testing the waters... to see what capital our play-off appearance has earned us with FAs.

Im sorry but you SEEM oblivious to the salary cap. If we sign guys like this THERE IS NO MONEY FOR MARIO AND FOR SCHAUB, FOSTER AND MYERS.....Its all about economics and unless we plan on cutting people OR re working MULTIPLE deals, signing a legit free agent will most likely end any chance we have at Mario

gary
02-13-2012, 06:46 PM
The fact that they are looking at other free agents gives me that idea they just seem to be covering all their bases.

thunderkyss
02-13-2012, 06:57 PM
Im sorry but you SEEM oblivious to the salary cap. If we sign guys like this THERE IS NO MONEY FOR MARIO AND FOR SCHAUB, FOSTER AND MYERS.....Its all about economics and unless we plan on cutting people OR re working MULTIPLE deals, signing a legit free agent will most likely end any chance we have at Mario

R you serious? Routt just proven he wasn't worth #1 money. The Raiders would much rather eat $7M of their cap than to have him play as their #2.

Where do you rank Stanford Routt among these FAs?

Courtland Innegan
Brent Grimes
Brandon Carr
Carlos Rogers
Ladarius Webb


Then there are still guys out there like Richard Marshall, Tracy Porter, Jason Allen, & Aaron Ross....

How much money are you planning on throwing at 28yr/old Stanford Routt after 7 seasons?

amazing80
02-13-2012, 07:11 PM
R you serious? Routt just proven he wasn't worth #1 money. The Raiders would much rather eat $7M of their cap than to have him play as their #2.

Where do you rank Stanford Routt among these FAs?

Courtland Innegan
Brent Grimes
Brandon Carr
Carlos Rogers
Ladarius Webb


Then there are still guys out there like Richard Marshall, Tracy Porter, Jason Allen, & Aaron Ross....

How much money are you planning on throwing at 28yr/old Stanford Routt after 7 seasons?

:aggressive: Its not about signing ANYONE when mario is involved. If Mario is signed, NO ONE BUT OUR free agents can be signed, and even that will be hard, If you let Mario walk, give him a deal.

Lets say we get a friendly deal like you posted in the mario thread, that leaves us 11 million, as you said, do you really think you can get Foster, Myers, Brisiel and ALL of our draft picks signed plus leave room for the next off-season for Schaub, Brown and possibly Barwin?

Bottom line is, we're a great team with tons of talent and paying a large sum for Mario would be stupid, let him walk and replace him with the pieces we have.....

Dutchrudder
02-13-2012, 07:24 PM
Each one of the other teams listed is not a playoff team, so if he was going to come here it would be for a ring and to come home. If he's willing to give us a discount sure, give him an offer, but otherwise no reason to get him.

thunderkyss
02-13-2012, 07:48 PM
:aggressive: Its not about signing ANYONE when mario is involved. If Mario is signed, NO ONE BUT OUR free agents can be signed, and even that will be hard, If you let Mario walk, give him a deal.

Lets say we get a friendly deal like you posted in the mario thread, that leaves us 11 million, as you said, do you really think you can get Foster, Myers, Brisiel and ALL of our draft picks signed plus leave room for the next off-season for Schaub, Brown and possibly Barwin?

Bottom line is, we're a great team with tons of talent and paying a large sum for Mario would be stupid, let him walk and replace him with the pieces we have.....

First, we've yet to find out how much cap room we've got. I've kicked so many scenarios out there I don't know which one you are talking about.

There is no evidence that signing Mario will prevent us from signing others, or being active in FA.

How much do you think the 36 players on our roster count towards the cap? 120M Only a dozen of them have contracts worth talking about.

We've got money & Bob ain't cheap.

Cerberus
02-13-2012, 07:56 PM
R you serious? Routt just proven he wasn't worth #1 money. The Raiders would much rather eat $7M of their cap than to have him play as their #2.

Where do you rank Stanford Routt among these FAs?

Courtland Innegan
Brent Grimes
Brandon Carr
Carlos Rogers
Ladarius Webb


Then there are still guys out there like Richard Marshall, Tracy Porter, Jason Allen, & Aaron Ross....

How much money are you planning on throwing at 28yr/old Stanford Routt after 7 seasons?

You should read up on Routt first before you make assumptions. His biggest problem is actually his penalties. Couldn't find the recent STATS INC. numbers, but this should give you an idea:

2010

#1 - Darrelle Revis, New York Jets: 33.9%, 19 burns on 56 targets, 340 yards, 4 TD, 10 passes defensed

#2 - Stanford Routt, Oakland Raiders: 39.4%, 39 burns on 99 targets, 635 yards, 5 TD, 13 passes defensed

#3 - Brandon Carr, Kansas City Chiefs: 39.8%, 43 burns on 108 targets, 758 yards, 6 TD, 25 passes defensed

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/higher-education-burn-rate-for-cornerbacks?urn=nfl,wp2995

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/584108-oakland-raiders-cb-stanford-routt-compared-to-darrelle-revis-and-nnamdi-asomugha


Here's the bad:

2011

According to STATS LLC, opponents were held to a 47.4 completion percentage against Routt. But he allowed eight touchdown passes, tied for the second-most in the NFL, and led the league with 17 penalties committed. . . . http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4690097/cowboys-express-interest-in-stanford-routt

Dutchrudder
02-13-2012, 08:54 PM
Routt 2010 with Aso on the other side = good CB.

Routt 2011 without Aso = bad CB...

I don't know which he would be in our defense, but I imagine he will cost too much for us.

gary
02-13-2012, 09:04 PM
So he would probably be good with Joseph on the other side?

MistaRed
02-13-2012, 09:07 PM
Hmm it'll be interesting to see what happens

badboy
02-13-2012, 09:10 PM
This guy with Joseph beside him and our safeties behind him should revert to 2010 and be a good signing if he sets his price low. He will get higher offers but where does he want to finish his career? Again, this should be an interesting off season with chances to build our dynasty.A solid # 2 Cb without a draft pick and allowing our younger guys to mature would be sweet. Allen money is very low 2011 so that is not even a starting point.

badboy
02-13-2012, 09:42 PM
Routt was worst in the league in TDs allowed and worst in penalties -- dangerous combination.2011 without #1 CB across from him. How was he in 2010? He could revert to that with Joseph and our safeties behind him.

edo783
02-14-2012, 12:00 AM
While I think he would be a very good addition to our secondary, I doubt very much we will be able to get into the game to get his services. We are one of the 5 teams with the least amount of cap space available and we have several of our own guys that we need to sign who will be big dollars. I would like to see us make this play, but we just don't have the money to get it done.

TheMatrix31
02-14-2012, 01:24 AM
No penalty whores. We can't afford to give up stupid yardage.

El Tejano
02-14-2012, 08:15 AM
The fact that the Texans are showing interest in another person now is real relieving to me. I'm sure they always did, but now it's obvious that our success has players wanting to check us out now and we aren't the ones making the phone calls. Also, we can't say they are just sitting on their hands anymore.

srrono
02-14-2012, 08:32 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d826edae8/article/exraider-routt-visits-bills-with-at-least-five-others-interested

NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora reported last week that Routt had visits scheduled with the Bills and Tennessee Titans. Routt will visit the Kansas City Chiefs on Tuesday and also has meetings scheduled with the Houston Texans and Dallas Cowboys, league sources told La Canfora on Monday.

srrono
02-14-2012, 09:04 AM
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL
Texans have nothing lined up with Stanford Routt. They're cap strapped and can't spend on UFAs other than their own. Mario is top priority.

Rey
02-14-2012, 09:19 AM
I'm hoping we can get this guy at a reasonable price. He's a good player and would provide legit competition for the #2 cb spot.

Cerberus
02-14-2012, 10:08 AM
No penalty whores. We can't afford to give up stupid yardage.

That would be a deal breaker then, because when Stanford isn't shutting down the opponents best WR, he is committing PI penalties.

MistaRed
02-14-2012, 10:12 AM
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL
Texans have nothing lined up with Stanford Routt. They're cap strapped and can't spend on UFAs other than their own. Mario is top priority.

He said the same thing last year.

badboy
02-14-2012, 11:35 AM
While I think he would be a very good addition to our secondary, I doubt very much we will be able to get into the game to get his services. We are one of the 5 teams with the least amount of cap space available and we have several of our own guys that we need to sign who will be big dollars. I would like to see us make this play, but we just don't have the money to get it done.What was our cap 2011? If you know you are the only one outside Texans & NFL. :spin:

edo783
02-14-2012, 11:59 AM
What was our cap 2011? If you know you are the only one outside Texans & NFL. :spin:

According to profootballtalk.com, if IIRC we currently are under the cap by 1.09 million. I don't remember what the cap total was for last year, but that's all we have left on it which we can ADD to this years cap. That's a new wrinkle under the new CBA.

badboy
02-14-2012, 12:14 PM
According to profootballtalk.com, if IIRC we currently are under the cap by 1.09 million. I don't remember what the cap total was for last year, but that's all we have left on it which we can ADD to this years cap. That's a new wrinkle under the new CBA.Sources such as John McCLain says we are $20m over. Others have posted we are $25m under with our 2012 FAs off the tab.

Dutchrudder
02-14-2012, 12:17 PM
According to profootballtalk.com, if IIRC we currently are under the cap by 1.09 million. I don't remember what the cap total was for last year, but that's all we have left on it which we can ADD to this years cap. That's a new wrinkle under the new CBA.

Teams have always been able to add cap from the previous year to the next, it just wasn't as straight forward as it is now. They used to be able to carry over any unspent cap money that was contracted out, so what the GM would do towards the end of the season is take someone like the backup QB, and restructure his deal to give him impossible incentives equal to the un-used cap space. That way it wouldn't get paid out and that un-used cap could be rolled into the next year. It's just difficult as fans to know what the un-used space is and how all the financials work. We don't know which Texans restructured their deals last year and how much was pushed to 2012/13/14 and so forth.

Goldensilence
02-14-2012, 12:41 PM
He said the same thing last year.

I think its safe to say John McClain knows less than an average poster here at this point is his career.

The Cush
02-14-2012, 12:50 PM
He said the same thing last year.

He also said the same thing about Leigh Bodden, only to have Leigh Bodden show up in Houston a day later. John McFatAss seems to only give us his opinion on what the Texans would do if he were in charge.

Goldensilence
02-14-2012, 01:05 PM
Houston is probably the best team on that list. Will he take a fair deal from us to come home and play on a really good young defense.

Agreed on this.

Does this mean they will let Mario just walk and use his money elsewhere? It sure looks that way.

I'm not so sure it looks that way, but I think the Texans have to be prepared for life without Mario Williams. I think Solidifying the back end of this defense isn't such a bad idea if that's the case. It would give the guys up front a few more precious seconds to get to the QB if he plays up to capability.

This guy with Joseph beside him and our safeties behind him should revert to 2010 and be a good signing if he sets his price low. He will get higher offers but where does he want to finish his career? Again, this should be an interesting off season with chances to build our dynasty.A solid # 2 Cb without a draft pick and allowing our younger guys to mature would be sweet. Allen money is very low 2011 so that is not even a starting point.

I don't think anyone is going to get a low price, maybe a fair market value if they decide to snag the guy early with other CB's possibly hitting the market soon. I'd also love to see the guy be able to come in and solidfy the #2 spot. If would give some of the younger CBs time to develop and have Allen man the #3.

The fact that the Texans are showing interest in another person now is real relieving to me. I'm sure they always did, but now it's obvious that our success has players wanting to check us out now and we aren't the ones making the phone calls. Also, we can't say they are just sitting on their hands anymore.

I don't think the FO has been sitting on its hands as much as, as you pointed out, the lack of success here on the defensive side of the ball. One year turn around into a top tier defense sure helps, but really its having a DC with the kind of track record Wade has. It's all this team has really needed for a while.

Corrosion
02-14-2012, 01:21 PM
Im sorry but you SEEM oblivious to the salary cap. If we sign guys like this THERE IS NO MONEY FOR MARIO AND FOR SCHAUB, FOSTER AND MYERS.....Its all about economics and unless we plan on cutting people OR re working MULTIPLE deals, signing a legit free agent will most likely end any chance we have at Mario

He's by no meansoblivious to the salary cap.


Mario's cap hit last year was HUGE. No way he counts $17.6m against the cap going forward.

If he stays its likely in the ~$10m range which leaves a considerable sumon the table to deal with Foster , Myers , Briesel and Dreessen. Schaub is under contract for another season.

Not to mention that several players will either be restructured or outright cut as cap casualties. Leinart and Jones likely cut. Ryans likely gets his deal reworked as $8.9m for him is far too high a cap hit.

Others who could restructure are J.Jo , D.Manning , #80 and OD.

Quite a few others could move money to the 2013 season when the cap is estimated to go up to at least $180m and possibly as high as $200m.

They could get MW for a bargin price this seasonunder those circumstances - paying him a premium for the following season.

The Texans may be up against the cap but that doesnt mean they cant maneuver money around to make things work.

I think its safe to say John McClain knows less than an average poster here at this point is his career.


There's more truth to that than you know ..... McLame is a worthless source.

TejasTom
02-14-2012, 01:39 PM
I think its safe to say John McClain knows less than an average poster here at this point is his career.

Because there is a not Waffle House near Reliant.

Mike Kerns
02-14-2012, 03:00 PM
McClain doesn't understand how the money works. Last year he said the Texans had "no shot" at Nnamdi or Joseph because they "couldn't afford it." Don't listen to him when it comes to dollars and sense. The man has a hard time calculating his tip at IHOP, much less the cap for a professional football team.

ThaShark316
02-14-2012, 03:18 PM
McClain doesn't understand how the money works. Last year he said the Texans had "no shot" at Nnamdi or Joseph because they "couldn't afford it." Don't listen to him when it comes to dollars and sense. The man has a hard time calculating his tip at IHOP, much less the cap for a professional football team.

http://static.bbmp3.com/smilies/whoa.gif

GP
02-14-2012, 03:33 PM
The man has a hard time calculating his tip at IHOP, much less the cap for a professional football team.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn90/unknowncity/Oh-Snap.gif

Pollardized
02-14-2012, 03:54 PM
McClain doesn't understand how the money works. Last year he said the Texans had "no shot" at Nnamdi or Joseph because they "couldn't afford it." Don't listen to him when it comes to dollars and sense. The man has a hard time calculating his tip at IHOP, much less the cap for a professional football team.

Cerberus
02-14-2012, 04:05 PM
I think its safe to say John McClain knows less than an average poster here at this point is his career.

McClain has become too comfortable. I've read some of his stuff that you can tell was taken from others, or are generalizations that others have made over the years.

Mr. Texan
02-14-2012, 04:10 PM
mcclain fat jokes never get old

Pollardized
02-14-2012, 04:13 PM
mcclain fat jokes never get old

I was just insinuating he knows as much about the Texans as a walrus does :kitten:

badboy
02-14-2012, 04:16 PM
Agreed on this.



I'm not so sure it looks that way, but I think the Texans have to be prepared for life without Mario Williams. I think Solidifying the back end of this defense isn't such a bad idea if that's the case. It would give the guys up front a few more precious seconds to get to the QB if he plays up to capability.



I don't think anyone is going to get a low price, maybe a fair market value if they decide to snag the guy early with other CB's possibly hitting the market soon. I'd also love to see the guy be able to come in and solidfy the #2 spot. If would give some of the younger CBs time to develop and have Allen man the #3.



I don't think the FO has been sitting on its hands as much as, as you pointed out, the lack of success here on the defensive side of the ball. One year turn around into a top tier defense sure helps, but really its having a DC with the kind of track record Wade has. It's all this team has really needed for a while.GS, I think Allen is gone. Texans were served well by McCain who has great speed. The new DB coach worked wonders with him & that seems to be overlooked by most. I believe my mock draft partner Beerlover has also voiced this on McCain. Then we have Roc and Harris sitting in the wings getting better and better.

badboy
02-14-2012, 04:19 PM
Come on guys, criticise McClain or anyone but don't flame him with pictures. Just voice your opinion on his knowledge that's fair game. This isn't junior high.

Pollardized
02-14-2012, 04:45 PM
Come on guys, criticise McClain or anyone but don't flame him with pictures. Just voice your opinion on his knowledge that's fair game. This isn't junior high.

Ok Jerome Soloman, I mean badboy, I fixed my earlier post...

Don't be so sensitive!!!!! :aggressive:

thunderkyss
02-14-2012, 06:19 PM
McClain doesn't understand how the money works. Last year he said the Texans had "no shot" at Nnamdi or Joseph because they "couldn't afford it."

I believe McClain is making the same mistake a lot of our fans are making. At the time McClain said it, it was true, we couldn't afford Nnamdi or Jjo. However, he didn't take into account that Rick Smith & the cap guy (don't know why I can't remember his name) get paid to make this thing work. Just about the only thing to stop them is if they have a head case on the team..... Andre & Schaub aren't headcases & just flat out not wanting a guy.

The Texans wanted Jjo & Manning, they made it work. They want Mario, Arian, & Myers, they'll make it work. If Mario truly wants to be here (same for Arian & Myers) they'll be here.

SAMURAITEXAN
02-14-2012, 06:46 PM
I believe McClain is making the same mistake a lot of our fans are making. At the time McClain said it, it was true, we couldn't afford Nnamdi or Jjo. However, he didn't take into account that Rick Smith & the cap guy (don't know why I can't remember his name) get paid to make this thing work. Just about the only thing to stop them is if they have a head case on the team..... Andre & Schaub aren't headcases & just flat out not wanting a guy.

The Texans wanted Jjo & Manning, they made it work. They want Mario, Arian, & Myers, they'll make it work. If Mario truly wants to be here (same for Arian & Myers) they'll be here.

TK, it is an individual priority issue.

Not in particular order:
Money
Chance to win SB
Location
Team environment/Organization environment
Coaches
Scheme
Loyalty (team, city and fans)

We may find out their priority when they decide to sign with us or not. Should a player decided to move on to other team is likely motivated by money. Of course, there an exceptional case other than money but the most of case is money.

Go Texans!!!

thunderkyss
02-14-2012, 07:04 PM
We may find out their priority when they decide to sign with us or not. Should a player decided to move on to other team is likely motivated by money. Of course, there an exceptional case other than money but the most of case is money.

Go Texans!!!

I understand.

My post was from the Texans POV & my understanding of the salary cap.

Goldensilence
02-14-2012, 09:07 PM
McClain has become too comfortable. I've read some of his stuff that you can tell was taken from others, or are generalizations that others have made over the years.

I don't think its that he's gotten comfortable much as he's been knocked out of the loop of the Texans FO.

GS, I think Allen is gone. Texans were served well by McCain who has great speed. The new DB coach worked wonders with him & that seems to be overlooked by most. I believe my mock draft partner Beerlover has also voiced this on McCain. Then we have Roc and Harris sitting in the wings getting better and better.

I think Both Harris and Roc will have to get better by the time the season starts I think for us to really consider dropping Allen from the rotation. I also don't think a new contract for him would be be terrible for out cap situation. It might be more that he wants more reps on a new team that keeps us from really resigning him IMO.

I like McCain's speed a lot, but his lack of size will keep him from being more than a serviceable Nickel back at best.

badboy
02-14-2012, 09:12 PM
Ok Jerome Soloman, I mean badboy, I fixed my earlier post...

Don't be so sensitive!!!!! :aggressive:I'm not much for trash talking on the court or field either. Not sure what Soloman has to do with my post.

Texan_Bill
02-14-2012, 09:16 PM
McClain has become too comfortable. I've read some of his stuff that you can tell was taken from others, or are generalizations that others have made over the years.

A) He's never been very accurate.
B) He's been more worried about his credit in movies like "Cook County", "The Longest Yard" or "Secreteriat".

badboy
02-14-2012, 09:29 PM
I don't think its that he's gotten comfortable much as he's been knocked out of the loop of the Texans FO.



I think Both Harris and Roc will have to get better by the time the season starts I think for us to really consider dropping Allen from the rotation. I also don't think a new contract for him would be be terrible for out cap situation. It might be more that he wants more reps on a new team that keeps us from really resigning him IMO.

I like McCain's speed a lot, but his lack of size will keep him from being more than a serviceable Nickel back at best.Maybe but he is one inch shorter & two pounds less than Dunta Robinson. I think Allen wants a chance at starting on some team.

PHAROAH
02-14-2012, 11:11 PM
We need safety more than on the corner but hey if the price is right bring him in for a visit.

edo783
02-14-2012, 11:27 PM
Based on the fact that the cap is taking a MAJOR jump in either 2013 or 2014 (I have seen it both ways), wouldn't it make sense to move a major portion the salary out to which ever year it is and to make the agents happy, make it guaranteed. No having to jump through hoops to get it, ya just get it. That way we can give out some good contracts to Foster, Williams, Meyers etc. without killing the cap in the short term.

Does this make sense or have the Oxicodones/Oxicotins and Vicodines with Jim Beam scrambled the one key calculator in my head?

Jackie Chiles
02-14-2012, 11:55 PM
We need safety more than on the corner but hey if the price is right bring him in for a visit.

Why do you say that? Our safeties are both significantly better than our CB2. Heck, I hope they play as well as they did this year for a long time.

gg no re
02-15-2012, 12:37 AM
2011 without #1 CB across from him. How was he in 2010? He could revert to that with Joseph and our safeties behind him.

Not sure... Goatcheese posted how he fared in 2009 and it didn't look pretty: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1897603&postcount=10

Rey
02-15-2012, 07:41 AM
John mcclain said he's not visiting houston. Says the report is not accurate. Says the texans don't have any money.

I can't figure out if john is senile or if he's just smarter than everyone else.

welsh texan
02-15-2012, 07:54 AM
Based on the fact that the cap is taking a MAJOR jump in either 2013 or 2014 (I have seen it both ways), wouldn't it make sense to move a major portion the salary out to which ever year it is and to make the agents happy, make it guaranteed. No having to jump through hoops to get it, ya just get it. That way we can give out some good contracts to Foster, Williams, Meyers etc. without killing the cap in the short term.

Does this make sense or have the Oxicodones/Oxicotins and Vicodines with Jim Beam scrambled the one key calculator in my head?

I'd been wondering this. However, when you look at the teams who've played clever with the CBA situation, such as the Cowboys for instance, who spent a fortune in the uncapped year to set themselves up, they now seem to be headed for cap hell without any real talent.

Maybe the better course of action is to play the long game, I think the Texans got some money paid off that uncapped year but didn't go to town, and seem to have done ok out of it.

So don't go crazy with it, but maybe step the deals up slightly in those anticipated years.

Dutchrudder
02-15-2012, 08:20 AM
Based on the fact that the cap is taking a MAJOR jump in either 2013 or 2014 (I have seen it both ways), wouldn't it make sense to move a major portion the salary out to which ever year it is and to make the agents happy, make it guaranteed. No having to jump through hoops to get it, ya just get it. That way we can give out some good contracts to Foster, Williams, Meyers etc. without killing the cap in the short term.

Does this make sense or have the Oxicodones/Oxicotins and Vicodines with Jim Beam scrambled the one key calculator in my head?

That is of course a good idea, however, we have Matt Schaub, Duane Brown, Brian Cushing and Connor Barwin up for new deals next year. They will warrant more than ample enough money to be the guys to get a big payday in 2013 over the guys this year. Plus, the organization and the league may have a better idea of how much the cap will jump so they can structure accordingly. I think it would be best to live within our means this year and push that to next so we don't get stuck in a bind if there is a lower cap ceiling than expected.

mussop
02-15-2012, 10:50 PM
Then we have Roc and Harris sitting in the wings getting better and better.

How do you know they are getting better and better?

ChampionTexan
02-17-2012, 04:03 PM
It appears LaCanfora's tweet included in the original post was incorrect or at best premature. From earlier this afternoon:

Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora

Stanford Routt making his latest free agent visit today, in Cincy. Was in Buffalo and KC earlier this week. #insideslant

JCTexan
02-17-2012, 04:11 PM
It appears LaCanfora's tweet included in the original post was incorrect or at best premature. From earlier this afternoon:

Could it be that LaCanfora just didn't mention the rest of the teams Routt visited earlier this week?

ChampionTexan
02-17-2012, 04:15 PM
Could it be that LaCanfora just didn't mention the rest of the teams Routt visited earlier this week?

Possible, but if he was in town, I think it's unlikely that nobody some much as tweeted about it.

badboy
02-18-2012, 09:16 PM
How do you know they are getting better and better?If they were not paying attention in the class room and the practices herefor getting better, wouldn't there be a hint of that? I've heard nothing about team being upset with either.

JCTexan
02-20-2012, 01:50 PM
Stanford Routt has signed a three year deal with the Chiefs.

In an effort to improve their man-to-man coverage ability, the Kansas City Chiefs reached agreement with former Oakland Raiders cornerback Stanford Routt, the team announced Monday.

Routt will receive $6.5 million in guarantees and will make $11 million this season as part of a three-year deal, a source said. The Raiders released him from a three-year, $31.5 million deal after the season that paid him $10 million in 2011.

The Tennessee Titans and Minnesota Vikings were among the other teams considering Routt, whose specialty is press, man-to-man defense.

He was scheduled to make $5 million had he stayed with the Raiders.

With Routt and Brandon Flowers, the Chiefs have two of the better man-to-man press corners in the AFC. Flowers signed a five-year, $52.5 million contract extension last year. With more than $71 million tied up in contracts for two cornerbacks, the Chiefs may not be able to keep Brandon Carr, who is an unrestricted free agent.

Carr, 25, had a career-high four interceptions in 2011. He has started all 64 games in four seasons with the Chiefs, making 237 tackles and eight picks.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7594856/ex-oakland-raiders-cb-stanford-routt-joins-kansas-city-chiefs

ChampionTexan
02-20-2012, 01:54 PM
Routt agrees to 3-year deal with the Chiefs.

In an effort to improve their man-to-man coverage ability, the Kansas City Chiefs reached agreement with former Oakland Raiders cornerback Stanford Routt, the team announced Monday.

Routt will receive $6.5 million in guarantees and will make $11 million this season as part of a three-year deal, a source said. The Raiders released him from a three-year, $31.5 million deal after the season that paid him $10 million in 2011.

LINK (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7594856/ex-oakland-raiders-cb-stanford-routt-join-kansas-city-chiefs-source-says)

thunderkyss
02-20-2012, 02:01 PM
That is of course a good idea, however, we have Matt Schaub, Duane Brown, Brian Cushing and Connor Barwin up for new deals next year. They will warrant more than ample enough money to be the guys to get a big payday in 2013 over the guys this year. Plus, the organization and the league may have a better idea of how much the cap will jump so they can structure accordingly. I think it would be best to live within our means this year and push that to next so we don't get stuck in a bind if there is a lower cap ceiling than expected.

Or if the cap doesn't increase until 2014.

I'd hate to go through with some of the ideas I suggested only to be left holding the bag in 2013.

Glad I'm not Rick Smith.

ChampionTexan
02-20-2012, 02:08 PM
Stanford Routt has signed a three year deal with the Chiefs.



http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7594856/ex-oakland-raiders-cb-stanford-routt-joins-kansas-city-chiefs

This very well could mean that Brandon Carr will hit the market, and Duane Bowe will be franchised if the Chiefs can't come to a deal with him first.

Rey
02-20-2012, 02:09 PM
That is too big of a contract

Dutchrudder
02-20-2012, 02:28 PM
will make $11 million this season

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dcdi--LdAeQ/Sa1sWd8j4pI/AAAAAAAAEBg/BGX_vc32JHc/s400/wtf.jpg

amazing80
02-20-2012, 02:43 PM
Maybe they let Brandon Carr walk....or Bowe

Bulls on Parade
02-20-2012, 04:21 PM
Somebody find me the stats on Routt. Not the 15 pass deflections or 4 INTs but how many penalties and TDs did he give up? I know there are a lot of negatives also associated with him.

welsh texan
02-22-2012, 05:05 AM
Makes JJoe look like an absolute bargain.

Am I right in thinking that the Chiefs are one of the teams who are waaay behind the cap and need to get near to it this season due to the incoming minimum spending rules?

I'm surprised they're willing to spend that much on Routt, but if rumours are true and the cap is likely to rise to as much as $180mm within 2 years, then numbers like this aren't going to look all that high in the near future.