PDA

View Full Version : Realistically, is AJ going to the hall of fame??


Maddict5
02-08-2012, 06:11 AM
We all love him and for a while there it seemed like he was destined for canton but when you see guys like carter and reed cant make it, does aj have a realistic shot at getting in esp with the way the league is getting pass happy and more wrs are putting up prolific numbers

carter: 1101 rec, 13,899 yds, 130 tds
aj: 706 rec, 9656 yds, 52 tds

tbh eventhough he should have a few good seasons left, i cant see him making it (as much as I want him to). imo his lack of tds will hurt him when its all time to make his case.....

Thorn
02-08-2012, 08:31 AM
From what he's done so far? No.

But he has the talent if he can keep it going without more injuries and the Texans win some playoff games WITH his help.

El Tejano
02-08-2012, 08:33 AM
We all love him and for a while there it seemed like he was destined for canton but when you see guys like carter and reed cant make it, does aj have a realistic shot at getting in esp with the way the league is getting pass happy and more wrs are putting up prolific numbers

carter: 1101 rec, 13,899 yds, 130 tds
aj: 706 rec, 9656 yds, 52 tds

tbh eventhough he should have a few good seasons left, i cant see him making it (as much as I want him to). imo his lack of tds will hurt him when its all time to make his case.....

The argument can be made that he did most of that while spending 4 years with David Carr at QB.

I think Carter doesn't make it because of his past. Which sux because there are some punks in that HOF but because they played in New York etc....they get in.

IMO Andre is alot like Earl Campbell, he doesn't have quite the playoff success but he's got the stats that do not lie and great things happened for Earl because Earl did great things for others.

Texanmike02
02-08-2012, 08:38 AM
He wasn't just a game chagner, he was a gname changer. Yes he gets in. Ask Innegan.

Mike

El Tejano
02-08-2012, 08:55 AM
We could also argue that AJ was on a team that had one of the worse offensive lines in history (QB is guilty for that too).

IDEXAN
02-08-2012, 09:13 AM
Bet the bank on it !
AJ right now in his career is a marginal selection for the NFL HOF, but there's this little thing called politics, which is always with us. The thing is the Texans have now been in existance for 10 years and owner Bob McNair will put pressure on the league to admit the first member to the Hall from his franchise. And nobody else, present or past Texan player, is nearly as qualified as AJ.
I'm thinking that it's a 5 year waiting period after a player finishes his career before he's eligible for election to the HOF, so it will be 15 years + before the Texans have their first HOFamer. You can count on it, AJ goes in as soon as he's eligible.

TheIronDuke
02-08-2012, 09:15 AM
Maybe if he could actually put a couple of injury-free seasons together but I highly doubt that'll happen.

Texan_Bill
02-08-2012, 10:08 AM
You mean like 5 of his 9 seasons that he played all 16 games and in two of the 4 years that he didn't, he played in 13. He's only had two seasons that he missed major time. This past season and in 2007 missing 9 and 7 games respectively.

Thats not that bad for someone who plays as physically as AJ does. Ask that linebacker from Arizona and Innegan.

HOU-TEX
02-08-2012, 10:20 AM
Love me some AJ, but no, he's not a HOFer at this point. If Chris Carter and Tim Brown can't make it in, how will AJ?

They both have over 100 TDs. AJ barely has over 50. His reception and yardage number should be on par after a few more seasons. But his TD numbers will never catch up to HOF type numbers. He'll have to kick ass in the yardage department in order to make it in, imo.

I'm in no way blaming AJ for the lack of TD production. We all know what he's had to deal with in his career

Texan_Bill
02-08-2012, 10:23 AM
Love me some AJ, but no, he's not a HOFer at this point. If Chris Carter and Tim Brown can't make it in, how will AJ?

They both have over 100 TDs. AJ barely has over 50. His reception and yardage number should be on par after a few more seasons. But his TD numbers will never catch up to HOF type numbers. He'll have to kick ass in the yardage department in order to make it in, imo.

I'm in no way blaming AJ for the lack of TD production. We all know what he's had to deal with in his career

Don't..... Don't..... Don't say it! :headhurts:

HOU-TEX
02-08-2012, 10:27 AM
Don't..... Don't..... Don't say it! :headhurts:

Oooh trust me, I'm not. I get the rumbling feeling of a regurgitation when I think of those wasted years.

TEXANRED
02-08-2012, 10:27 AM
No. AJ is not in the top 25 in receptions. Also if Tim Brown (14th) and Cris Carter (3rd) are not in the hall of fame then you have to figure you are going to have to be better than those guys to make it in or have some rings like Michael Irving.

TheCD
02-08-2012, 10:40 AM
No. AJ is not in the top 25 in receptions. Also if Tim Brown (14th) and Cris Carter (3rd) are not in the hall of fame then you have to figure you are going to have to be better than those guys to make it in or have some rings like Michael Irving.

I think his case is marginal as of right now, as well. But let's not forget that he is currently the all-time leader in YPG. In my opion, that speaks volumes over his lack of TDs considering the offenses he has worked with in the past.

The downside I can see right now is that he didn't take over in the playoffs like Fitzgerald did. Voters are finniky and won't care who the QB was. These guys want "I am playing like they need to invent an even more competitive league" performances. That, and they're just stupid sometimes with their reasoning of why certain guys shouldn't get in.

Texan_Bill
02-08-2012, 10:44 AM
Oooh trust me, I'm not. I get the rumbling feeling of a regurgitation when I think of those wasted years.

http://www.bobshowto.com/tips-tricks-documents/Screen-Door-Repair.JPG

Vinny
02-08-2012, 10:50 AM
not if he keeps missing games. He's a shewbiedo in otherwise.

gary
02-08-2012, 10:55 AM
Fitzgerald had Warner and AJ had Yates.

Double Barrel
02-08-2012, 12:12 PM
Love me some AJ, but no, he's not a HOFer at this point. If Chris Carter and Tim Brown can't make it in, how will AJ?

They both have over 100 TDs. AJ barely has over 50. His reception and yardage number should be on par after a few more seasons. But his TD numbers will never catch up to HOF type numbers. He'll have to kick ass in the yardage department in order to make it in, imo.

I'm in no way blaming AJ for the lack of TD production. We all know what he's had to deal with in his career

My thoughts, as well.

My heart says yes, but my mind says no. The HoF voters are clearly biased against WRs right now, and that trend will only continue as the NFL has changed rules to become a pass happy league. And if Chris Carter / Tim Brown are not in with their careers achieved before these pass-friendly revisions, I just don't see the voters giving AJ a pass.

And by the time AJ retires and waits his 5 years, there will most likely be a bottle-neck of WRs waiting to get in.

I hate to say it, but unless the HoF voters feel sorry for H-town (which is doubtful), I think AJ will have to wait a very long time to be inducted.

IlliniJen
02-08-2012, 12:17 PM
Not one year with double digit TDs...compared to the WRs of this era, he's not producing the numbers. WE know he's great, but he's been hamstrung by ****ty QBs, conservative offensive playcalling in the red zone and injuries. He'll need a few transcendent years of being the best WR in the league in order to get in, unfortunately.

False Start
02-08-2012, 12:32 PM
I really want to say yes, but I think it will take awhile. He will get the Chris Carter treatment.

HOU-TEX
02-08-2012, 12:47 PM
http://www.bobshowto.com/tips-tricks-documents/Screen-Door-Repair.JPG

:spit: Yeah, a lot of that too!

Texn4life
02-08-2012, 12:59 PM
Let's bring in Peyton Manning to get him the ball and he'll get in the HOF for sure with a few great years. :doot:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Texan4Ever
02-08-2012, 01:12 PM
If players like Art Monk can get in, considering how important AJ is to this franchise and the fact that he is held in high regard over HWSNBN (who was the first pick in the franchise's history) is a testament to his abilities and his on the field and of the field work.

ArlingtonTexan
02-08-2012, 01:53 PM
Honestly, the way the hall of fame voters treat WRs, none of them can be true locks even if they should be.

rush2112mn
02-08-2012, 02:41 PM
I think what hurts his chances is touchdowns....lack of.....
If he stays healthy and brings his touchdown total up...and gets to a Superbowl and has a game like Fitzgerald had like vs the Steelers....I think it would help his chances.....he needs to put up the numbers.....

gtexan02
02-08-2012, 02:48 PM
For multiple seasons AJ was considered to be the #1 player at his position in the entire NFL. Its players like that who should get into the hall of fame.

Rey
02-08-2012, 03:00 PM
For multiple seasons AJ was considered to be the #1 player at his position in the entire NFL. Its players like that who should get into the hall of fame.

AJ was like that non-mainstream rock band that is really better than the latest flavor...

Playoffs
02-08-2012, 03:21 PM
HOF, no doubt.

Double Barrel
02-08-2012, 04:47 PM
If players like Art Monk can get in, considering how important AJ is to this franchise and the fact that he is held in high regard over HWSNBN (who was the first pick in the franchise's history) is a testament to his abilities and his on the field and of the field work.

That's not a strong endorsement for AJ into the HoF when you consider how long it took for Art Monk to be voted in. That was a debate (http://artmonk.wordpress.com/about/) that raged for many years.

TdotTexas2Step
02-08-2012, 05:35 PM
Considering other great WRs haven't gotten in, AJ will need to win a championship to give himself a good chance. If he wins more than one ring, he'll be a lock.

The resume just looks so much better when you can list "Superbowl Winner" or "2-Time Superbowl Winner".

TexanSam
02-08-2012, 06:29 PM
I'm going to say yes...but it's going to take a long, long time. Maybe 10, 15 years after he's retired. He's on the fringe I think. If he can put up some huge seasons the next few years, and if the Texans can get to a Super Bowl and an AFC championship game or two then that will definitely help his cause.

drs23
02-08-2012, 07:57 PM
I'm going to say yes...but it's going to take a long, long time. Maybe 10, 15 years after he's retired. He's on the fringe I think. If he can put up some huge seasons the next few years, and if the Texans can get to a Super Bowl and an AFC championship game or two then that will definitely help his cause.

I think it's going to take rings, not one, but plural for AJ to make it. Seems like the voters have a hard on for WRs. Not saying I agree, but I know what I see.

b0ng
02-08-2012, 08:04 PM
TO is going to go into the HOF, and so is Randy Moss and neither of those guys have rings. Marvin Harrison and Torry Holt are probably going in (Holt is a maybe) and both of those guys only have 1 ring.

In AJ's class you're going to have Larry Fitz (no rings), probably Reggie Wayne (1 ring), probably Calvin Johnson (no rings), and then whats leftover from the Moss/Owens/Harrison/Holt/Brown/Carter brigade that is currently not in. It's a jammed up group of lots of talented wideouts, and a lot of those guys have TD numbers that make one drool.

If he gets in, he's going to need to put up some herculean performances on the wrong side of 30.

drs23
02-08-2012, 08:11 PM
TO is going to go into the HOF, and so is Randy Moss and neither of those guys have rings. Marvin Harrison and Torry Holt are probably going in (Holt is a maybe) and both of those guys only have 1 ring.

In AJ's class you're going to have Larry Fitz (no rings), probably Reggie Wayne (1 ring), probably Calvin Johnson (no rings), and then whats leftover from the Moss/Owens/Harrison/Holt/Brown/Carter brigade that is currently not in. It's a jammed up group of lots of talented wideouts, and a lot of those guys have TD numbers that make one drool.

If he gets in, he's going to need to put up some herculean performances on the wrong side of 30.

Agreed.

False Start
02-08-2012, 08:55 PM
That's not a strong endorsement for AJ into the HoF when you consider how long it took for Art Monk to be voted in. That was a debate (http://artmonk.wordpress.com/about/) that raged for many years.

I remember the Art Monk thing, personally I think he should have been in a lot sooner.

Texan_Bill
02-08-2012, 09:19 PM
AJ will be in, because if not...?? I will make it my life's mission to seek out ALL voters and "making the world a better place and punching each one of them in the face"!

YES!

I quoted myself!!!!

BullBlitz
02-08-2012, 09:21 PM
HOF, no doubt.

I think it's more like "HOF, no way."

We all like AJ here with good reason, but no, he has neither the playoff history nor the stats to be in a HOf discussion yet.

He is a good guy, and hopefully that will change. My sense is that playing his entire career in Houston isn't going to help though.

ObsiWan
02-09-2012, 01:38 AM
Love me some AJ, but no, he's not a HOFer at this point. If Chris Carter and Tim Brown can't make it in, how will AJ?

They both have over 100 TDs. AJ barely has over 50. His reception and yardage number should be on par after a few more seasons. But his TD numbers will never catch up to HOF type numbers. He'll have to kick ass in the yardage department in order to make it in, imo.

I'm in no way blaming AJ for the lack of TD production. We all know what he's had to deal with in his career

Yep. I'm afraid this is the sad, unfair truth. He'll have to put up eye-popping TD and yardage numbers and/or be MVP in a Super Bowl or two to get the attention and votes he needs to get one of those ugly yellow sportcoats.

It ain't fair really....

TheMatrix31
02-09-2012, 01:47 AM
Not sure. Production wise he's lacking, but I think the voters are stupid not having some of the excluded WRs in, not necessarily a matter of those WRs not being worthy.

I know that outside of Rice and Randy Moss, Andre is the most physically-talented, skilled WR I've ever seen.

ObsiWan
02-09-2012, 08:08 AM
If players like Art Monk can get in, considering how important AJ is to this franchise and the fact that he is held in high regard over HWSNBN (who was the first pick in the franchise's history) is a testament to his abilities and his on the field and of the field work.

That's not a strong endorsement for AJ into the HoF when you consider how long it took for Art Monk to be voted in. That was a debate (http://artmonk.wordpress.com/about/) that raged for many years.

Considering other great WRs haven't gotten in, AJ will need to win a championship to give himself a good chance. If he wins more than one ring, he'll be a lock.

The resume just looks so much better when you can list "Superbowl Winner" or "2-Time Superbowl Winner".

Art Monk had THREE Super Bowl rings and was the All-Time leader in receptions when he retired in 1995 and it STILL took them until 2008 to vote him in. Monk should have been a lock. But they treat WRs just a little bit better than kickers when it comes to HoF voting. No one has ever given a satisfactory reason why that is.

TO is going to go into the HOF, and so is Randy Moss and neither of those guys have rings. Marvin Harrison and Torry Holt are probably going in (Holt is a maybe) and both of those guys only have 1 ring.

In AJ's class you're going to have Larry Fitz (no rings), probably Reggie Wayne (1 ring), probably Calvin Johnson (no rings), and then whats leftover from the Moss/Owens/Harrison/Holt/Brown/Carter brigade that is currently not in. It's a jammed up group of lots of talented wideouts, and a lot of those guys have TD numbers that make one drool.

If he gets in, he's going to need to put up some herculean performances on the wrong side of 30.

Moss will have to get in first - he has that 25 TD season on his resume and all those great years in Minn. OTOH, he'll have issues because of the time he goofed off in Oakland. And as many highlight catches and 100+ catch seasons that Harrison has on his resume' (not to mention he carried Peyton in the early years of his career) he'll probably have wait to get in because of the way his career ended (that gun thing).

Unless they start treating WRs better, A.J. is gonna have a tough time getting in. ESPECIALLY if there isn't a SB win or two (preferrably a SB MVP) for his supporters to point to.

fiasco west
02-09-2012, 08:43 AM
I think it's more like "HOF, no way."

We all like AJ here with good reason, but no, he has neither the playoff history nor the stats to be in a HOf discussion yet.

He is a good guy, and hopefully that will change. My sense is that playing his entire career in Houston isn't going to help though.

I think playing on the Texans actually will help him. I'm sure he'd get a few votes just to have a Texan in the HOF.

With that said Carter is getting in, Andre's numbers are lacking but lets remember he's 30 and he's a WR. Lets not talk like he has 2 years left. T.O played until he was what 37? Andre takes good care of his body it seems and is not a head case. I can easily see him playing 7 more years and still producing as a top 5 WR in his mid-late 30s.

Just look at Moss who had one of his best years ever later in his career with the Pats. Now if only we could say Matt and Andre stay healthy. I think he'd pass Carter's numbers then.

Double Barrel
02-09-2012, 11:47 AM
Art Monk had THREE Super Bowl rings and was the All-Time leader in receptions when he retired in 1995 and it STILL took them until 2008 to vote him in. Monk should have been a lock. But they treat WRs just a little bit better than kickers when it comes to HoF voting. No one has ever given a satisfactory reason why that is.

My thoughts, as well. It was shocking every year to learn that Monk had been snubbed yet again. He played in an era where going across the middle of the field was a dangerous job and WRs did not have the rules of protection provided to today's receivers. And the HoF voters know this, but still dragged their feet to vote him in. I has never made sense to me as a fan.

Moss will have to get in first - he has that 25 TD season on his resume and all those great years in Minn. OTOH, he'll have issues because of the time he goofed off in Oakland. And as many highlight catches and 100+ catch seasons that Harrison has on his resume' (not to mention he carried Peyton in the early years of his career) he'll probably have wait to get in because of the way his career ended (that gun thing).

Unless they start treating WRs better, A.J. is gonna have a tough time getting in. ESPECIALLY if there isn't a SB win or two (preferrably a SB MVP) for his supporters to point to.

The sad part is A.J.'s dedication to this team could ultimately cost him a ring or two and entry into the HoF. He's certainly gifted enough to make it, but spending his entire career on a floundering expansion team that took a decade to get into it's first playoff game will not be an exemption with the voters.

GP
02-09-2012, 11:59 AM
He'll make it in, but it will be a long, long, LONG time before he does.

At some point, the voters will look back at his talent, his dedication to the Texans (rather than whoring around like Randy Moss did), and his overall contribution to the game of football--He is a BEAST, period--and they will vote him into the HOF.

But it will take a long time, maybe 20+ years. Seriously. It will be in a year where there isn't much for the voters to choose from. It'll be a "meh" consensus, which is appropriate since the Texans were a "meh" team for those 8 or 9 years of his career here.

They'll feel sorry for him. There'll be stories about how unjust the voting system is, like there are for similar players who didn't have exceptional post-season careers but still contributed heavily to the NFL for many, many years regardless.

TEXANRED
02-09-2012, 01:12 PM
I think it's more like "HOF, no way."

We all like AJ here with good reason, but no, he has neither the playoff history nor the stats to be in a HOf discussion yet.

He is a good guy, and hopefully that will change. My sense is that playing his entire career in Houston isn't going to help though.

This team is now a superbowl contender for years to comes. We are set to go on a ten year run of division titles and playoff appearances.

I am going to call it. At least Superbowl titles in the next years.

Of course AJ may have only 4 more years left? Maybe?

amazing80
02-09-2012, 04:06 PM
I love me some AJ, but tbh he won't make it. Even if he produced 3-4 more GREAT seasons, I doubt he gets in, he would need to set all kinds of records for TD receptions to have a shot and in this offense, the one where we neglect to throw to him in the redzone, he just doesn't stand a chance. He will make the TEXANS HOF though and I am sure his number will be retired, but thats prolly it sadly.

BullBlitz
02-09-2012, 10:20 PM
This team is now a superbowl contender for years to comes. We are set to go on a ten year run of division titles and playoff appearances.

I need to see us do more than beat a weak Bengals wild card team in our own stadium before I develop such a view.

We are not "a superbowl contender for years to come" based on anything except wishful thinking.

Bulls on Parade
02-09-2012, 10:26 PM
I need to see us do more than beat a weak Bengals wild card team in our own stadium before I develop such a view.

We are not "a superbowl contender for years to come" based on anything except wishful thinking.
Texans are a Super Bowl contender entering 2012 and you're wrong if you think otherwise. This team is loaded on both sides of the ball. Just need a little luck staying healthy and a couple of improvements on special teams.

BullBlitz
02-09-2012, 10:35 PM
Texans are a Super Bowl contender entering 2012 and you're wrong if you think otherwise. This team is loaded on both sides of the ball. Just need a little luck staying healthy and a couple of improvements on special teams.

They always need a little luck. People said the same thing when they were so optimistic after the 9-7 season:

"Next season is going to be the one."
"Playoffs or bust".
"We've finally got a QB, a top WR, and a Rookie of the Year linebacker."

What happened? 6-10.

So, no, we aren't a Super Bowl contender based on what happened in 2011. Lots of teams are loaded; not that we are. We have plenty of glaring weaknesses that competitors can take advantage of.

Bulls on Parade
02-09-2012, 10:50 PM
It's a lot different compared to any past year. The Texans actually have a top-rated defense along with a highly ranked offense going into the off-season. Wade Phillips is a great defensive coordinator and not a total bonehead like the past defensive coordinators we've had over the years.

There seems to be a strong foundation on both sides of the ball for the first time in franchise history. A great mix of veterans and talented young players. If only Andre Johnson had a team as loaded as this earlier in his career, he'd be that much closer to knocking on the doors of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

I don't even think this team has a lot of glaring weaknesses right now. At least nothing that isn't easily fixable with one more good draft and free agent signing. I just don't want to end the season and go to battle in the playoffs with an unproven third-string rookie at quarterback. That's about the only gripe I had with this past season. But that was just some unfortunate luck. Schaub getting hurt by Albert Haynesworth on a quarterback sneak backed up on our own goal line. What are the odds of that happening? Just the playcalling on that particular play was insane to begin with (cough, cough, Kubiak!!!!).

Vinny
02-10-2012, 10:44 AM
I love me some AJ, but tbh he won't make it. Even if he produced 3-4 more GREAT seasons, I doubt he gets in, he would need to set all kinds of records for TD receptions to have a shot and in this offense, the one where we neglect to throw to him in the redzone, he just doesn't stand a chance. He will make the TEXANS HOF though and I am sure his number will be retired, but thats prolly it sadly.
AJ has been the dominant wr of the last half decade. Art Monk couldn't carry Andre's jock and he is a HOF'er. He only went to 3 Pro Bowls and was pretty much only a possession wr. All he did was be pretty good for a long time (has some longevity records)...he wasn't ever "dominant" and didn't make defenses change their schemes for his game like teams HAVE to defend Andre Johnson. If AJ stays healthy he is a no brainer HOF player.

Double Barrel
02-10-2012, 11:17 AM
AJ has been the dominant wr of the last half decade. Art Monk couldn't carry Andre's jock and he is a HOF'er. He only went to 3 Pro Bowls and was pretty much only a possession wr. All he did was be pretty good for a long time (has some longevity records)...he wasn't ever "dominant" and didn't make defenses change their schemes for his game like teams HAVE to defend Andre Johnson. If AJ stays healthy he is a no brainer HOF player.

Do you think HoF voters will agree with you? They just dissed Chris Carter, and according to some NFL analysts, this will be a trend that continues for awhile against receivers.

Vinny
02-10-2012, 11:53 AM
Do you think HoF voters will agree with you? They just dissed Chris Carter, and according to some NFL analysts, this will be a trend that continues for awhile against receivers.
He was more one-dimensional compared to Andre Johnson who can do everything but he caught more TD passes. I think if Andre stays healthy and keeps his production high he'll be considered one of the top 2-3 wide outs of his era. I think Carter is more of a HOF guy than Art Monk was fwiw.

Double Barrel
02-10-2012, 12:15 PM
He was more one-dimensional compared to Andre Johnson who can do everything but he caught more TD passes. I think if Andre stays healthy and keeps his production high he'll be considered one of the top 2-3 wide outs of his era. I think Carter is more of a HOF guy than Art Monk was fwiw.

I agree with you completely about AJ. I just hope the HoF voters share our perspective when the time comes. Hopefully that's a decade away (or longer).

Maddict5
02-10-2012, 07:21 PM
AJ has been the dominant wr of the last half decade. Art Monk couldn't carry Andre's jock and he is a HOF'er. He only went to 3 Pro Bowls and was pretty much only a possession wr. All he did was be pretty good for a long time (has some longevity records)...he wasn't ever "dominant" and didn't make defenses change their schemes for his game like teams HAVE to defend Andre Johnson. If AJ stays healthy he is a no brainer HOF player.

eventhough it was less than 5 yrs ago, imo monk would have a slim chance of getting into the hall today. much more prolific wrs than aj (td wise) and probably comparable yardage wise (when its said and done) are being kept out

the 'dominant receivers' at various points of the last decade were probably: holt, TO, moss, AJ, welker, fitz, wayne & harrison, chad johnson, steve smith... not to mention guys like megatron, aj green, nicks etc who've started out real strong and you're looking at a potential greater bottleneck than we have now at wr in the hof

aj had about 2 yrs where he was considered the best... but most of those guys will have pretty comparable cases or stronger to him

its by no means a no brainer. i think most realistic ppl would agree with that. heres hoping he can string together a few more 1500 yd, 10+ td seasons to help himself out

Texan_Bill
02-10-2012, 09:16 PM
Re: Realistically, is AJ going to the hall of fame??



:thinking: Ummmmmm!

Ya think so doctor???

YESSSSS!!!

Dude did more, with a lot less!!!!

ObsiWan
02-10-2012, 10:12 PM
Do you think HoF voters will agree with you? They just dissed Chris Carter, and according to some NFL analysts, this will be a trend that continues for awhile against receivers.

This is THE crucial question. As Texans fans we have to remember that most of the HoF voters won't have Battle Red KoolAid running thru their veins. They won't care what A.J. has meant to us. They'll look at the numbers - five 1000-yd seasons, four 85+ catch seasons, only 54 TDs in nine years - and say "maybe".

As a comparison, let's look at two HoF WRs vs CC and AJ.

Lynn Swann:
336 receptions, 51 TDs, 5462 yds, FOUR rings.

Michael Irvin:
750 receptions, 11,904 yds, 65 TDs, three rings.

Cris Carter:
1101 receptions, 13,899 yds (including a stretch where he had 8 straight 1000+ yd seasons), 130 TDs, zero rings.

A.J.:
706 receptions, 9656 yds, 52 TDs, no rings.

See a pattern in the HoF voters thinking? It's the SB rings that get you in over your stats... and they get you in sooner rather than later.

We better get AJ into a couple of Super Bowls and let him shine for him to have a shot at a yellow jacket.

Vinny
02-10-2012, 10:24 PM
This is THE crucial question. As Texans fans we have to remember that most of the HoF voters won't have Battle Red KoolAid running thru their veins. They won't care what A.J. has meant to us. They'll look at the numbers - five 1000-yd seasons, four 85+ catch seasons, only 54 TDs in nine years - and say "maybe".

As a comparison, let's look at two HoF WRs vs CC and AJ.

Lynn Swann:
336 receptions, 51 TDs, 5462 yds, FOUR rings.

Michael Irvin:
750 receptions, 11,904 yds, 65 TDs, three rings.

Cris Carter:
1101 receptions, 13,899 yds (including a stretch where he had 8 straight 1000+ yd seasons), 130 TDs, zero rings.

A.J.:
706 receptions, 9656 yds, 52 TDs, no rings.

See a pattern in the HoF voters thinking? It's the SB rings that get you in over your stats... and they get you in sooner rather than later.

We better get AJ into a couple of Super Bowls and let him shine for him to have a shot at a yellow jacket.
its almost impossible to compare stats from the 70's. You could mug a wr all over the field...literally knock their blocks off at any time - today, every stat or new rule has gone on to enhance the stats of the offensive players in this newer era. In the greater picture, football is a sport very much unlike the stat-driven game of baseball (as an example of making HOF cases on pure stats alone). I think you have to look past raw data to see the impact of a football player. Sometimes you get a lot of catches because the defense is really doubling Ricky Sanders (Art Monk, cough, cough). AJ is a dominant blocker, an elite route runner, makes teams gameplan totally around his skill-set, and has been on some really bad teams. I think the voters will see that and there are tons of things players do to dominate games that don't end up on stat sheets. Stats are for baseball and fantasy leagues.

BullBlitz
02-10-2012, 10:53 PM
AJ is a lot more revered here than nationally. If we don't get to some playoff games where he can do something, the HOF will be a long shot.

ObsiWan
02-10-2012, 10:54 PM
its almost impossible to compare stats from the 70's. You could mug a wr all over the field...literally knock their blocks off at any time - today, every stat or new rule has gone on to enhance the stats of the offensive players in this newer era. In the greater picture, football is a sport very much unlike the stat-driven game of baseball (as an example of making HOF cases on pure stats alone). I think you have to look past raw data to see the impact of a football player. Sometimes you get a lot of catches because the defense is really doubling Ricky Sanders (Art Monk, cough, cough). AJ is a dominant blocker, an elite route runner, makes teams gameplan totally around his skill-set, and has been on some really bad teams. I think the voters will see that and there are tons of things players do to dominate games that don't end up on stat sheets. Stats are for baseball and fantasy leagues.

I recognize and agree with most of that statement. A.J. was the one stud on a sucky team. But now the offense goes thru Foster. Defenses don't fear A.J. like they fear Foster. What's more likely to happen... an opposing defense doubling A.J. with a CB and safety or them putting that safety in the box to stop Foster??

The part I disagree with is that you're giving the HoF voters more credit than they're due. They won't care that A.J. is a great downfield blocker or a great route runner. There's no evidence that they are that smart. Carter and Harrison are two of the best route runners this side of Jerry Rice. Carter still isn't in and it will be interesting to see if Harrison gets in when eligible (I think he's still 2-3 years away).

I'm telling you A.J. needs a ring or two to cement his chances.

Texecutioner
02-11-2012, 05:01 PM
I'll say that he does go to the HOF, but I won't be surprised if he doesn't get it in either.

I think that the voters will remember and realize how dominant he was and how feared he was around the league, and will understand that he played on a bad team for a long time.

thunderkyss
02-11-2012, 05:36 PM
No. AJ is not in the top 25 in receptions. Also if Tim Brown (14th) and Cris Carter (3rd) are not in the hall of fame then you have to figure you are going to have to be better than those guys to make it in or have some rings like Michael Irving.

This, if the Texans win two of the next three & Andre is MVP in at least one of them, he gets in.

But I voted no.

thunderkyss
02-11-2012, 05:49 PM
Do you think HoF voters will agree with you? They just dissed Chris Carter, and according to some NFL analysts, this will be a trend that continues for awhile against receivers.

Andre is what they want a WR to be. If he gets a couple of rings & an MVP, they'll bend over backwards to get him in, ASAP. Plus he'll have McClain in his corner. If he can get Moon in, he'll get AJ in. But AJ has to do his part.

Nawzer
02-11-2012, 10:55 PM
As of today he's not a HOF WR imho. What he needs to do is to have a couple of years where he gets 1000+ yds and has double digit td receptions. He's a borderline guy as of now so he needs to do what I just said earlier and he'll be in Canton in no time.

Fico
02-15-2012, 12:51 PM
The reason Chris Carter and Tim Brown have not got in is simple. They were never the best WR in the NFL at any given time during their career. They were good players, some years as maybe a top5 player most years as a top 10 player at their position. They had long careers and thus put up numbers.

Dre will get in becuase for the last 3 years he has been widely considered the best at his position with his only competition being Fitz (Megatron too). 08 and 09 were monster years back to back and while he may never put up numbers like that again there is no reason to think he can't put up 1100 - 1400 yards a season for 4-5 more seasons barring injury.

In his only appearance in the playoffs he averaged 100 yds a game with 15.5 yards per catch basically at 75% (at best).

I think he bounces back to the tune of 1200+ next year too.

Mr. Texan
02-15-2012, 04:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mzToSf84YI

yes :kingkong:

drs23
02-15-2012, 04:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mzToSf84YI

yes :kingkong:

That man is the beast of all beasts. BAR NONE. AJ is the MAN!

run-david-run
02-15-2012, 06:17 PM
I recognize and agree with most of that statement. A.J. was the one stud on a sucky team. But now the offense goes thru Foster. Defenses don't fear A.J. like they fear Foster. What's more likely to happen... an opposing defense doubling A.J. with a CB and safety or them putting that safety in the box to stop Foster??

The part I disagree with is that you're giving the HoF voters more credit than they're due. They won't care that A.J. is a great downfield blocker or a great route runner. There's no evidence that they are that smart. Carter and Harrison are two of the best route runners this side of Jerry Rice. Carter still isn't in and it will be interesting to see if Harrison gets in when eligible (I think he's still 2-3 years away).

I'm telling you A.J. needs a ring or two to cement his chances.

Uh, ask the Ravens, who let Foster go off while keeping everyone deep to stop AJ.

Texan_Bill
02-15-2012, 06:21 PM
Do you think HoF voters will agree with you? They just dissed Chris Carter, and according to some NFL analysts, this will be a trend that continues for awhile against receivers.

Then again, you know how fickle the voters can be. Maybe they still hold Carter's early years against him. The whole alcohol, weed and ecstasy thing. Who knows?

Double Barrel
02-15-2012, 06:28 PM
Then again, you know how fickle the voters can be. Maybe they still hold Carter's early years against him. The whole alcohol, weed and ecstasy thing. Who knows?

There is no telling, to be honest. The HoF voters do not have to be accountable. By the same token, they might not like the Houston Texans and hold that against A.J. for not seeking out a better team when he had the chance to do so.

I do not think either loyalty or potential are traits to be considered by HoF voters.

Different position, but the fact that Robert "Dr. Doom" Brazile is not in the HoF says it all. The voters have a bias, and it is unexplainable.

Texan_Bill
02-15-2012, 06:34 PM
There is no telling, to be honest. The HoF voters do not have to be accountable. By the same token, they might not like the Houston Texans and hold that against A.J. for not seeking out a better team when he had the chance to do so.

I do not think either loyalty or potential are traits to be considered by HoF voters.

Different position, but the fact that Robert "Dr. Doom" Brazile is not in the HoF says it all. The voters have a bias, and it is unexplainable.

Agreed on all points, especially the bolded! :foottap:

infantrycak
02-15-2012, 08:23 PM
Different position, but the fact that Robert "Dr. Doom" Brazile is not in the HoF says it all. The voters have a bias, and it is unexplainable.

How about Charles Haley? He was the best DE on five SB winning teams.

Texan_Bill
02-15-2012, 08:44 PM
How about Charles Haley? He was the best DE on five SB winning teams.

Didn't Charles Haley have an ummmmm, well :thinking: sorta weird pregame "ritual"? I may be thinking of someone else, but again, voters are a fickle bunch.

Texan_Bill
02-15-2012, 08:46 PM
BTW... This just in; The Pro Football Hall of Fame needs a Texans entry other than Joe Texan in the "fan" wing.... Seriously! :D

infantrycak
02-15-2012, 09:58 PM
Didn't Charles Haley have an ummmmm, well :thinking: sorta weird pregame "ritual"? I may be thinking of someone else, but again, voters are a fickle bunch.

He was known for practical jokes which sometimes ran into your neck of the woods. :kitten:

But seriously. Any QB with 5 rings would be a unanimous inductee even if it was Trent Dilfer doing it on the back of the Ravens defense.

ObsiWan
02-15-2012, 11:58 PM
How about Charles Haley? He was the best DE on five SB winning teams.

Didn't Charles Haley have an ummmmm, well :thinking: sorta weird pregame "ritual"? I may be thinking of someone else, but again, voters are a fickle bunch.

He was known for practical jokes which sometimes ran into your neck of the woods. :kitten:

But seriously. Any QB with 5 rings would be a unanimous inductee even if it was Trent Dilfer doing it on the back of the Ravens defense.

Damn... I had forgotten about Haley...
Found this in his Wiki write up.

Haley's supporters, who included the late Bill Walsh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Walsh_(American_football_coach)), believe his personal accomplishments, especially his record five Super Bowl rings, make him worthy of induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame).[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] However, his history of obscene, violent, and mutinous behavior during his playing days has not helped his candidacy. He was one of the fifteen finalists in 2010 and 2011; however, he was not selected. He was inducted into the Virginia Sports Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Sports_Hall_of_Fame) in 2006. He was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2011.

I remember him going at it with George Seifert but I don't know what they mean by "obscene" behavior.

ObsiWan
02-16-2012, 12:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mzToSf84YI

yes :kingkong:

No question A.J. is a bonafide stud. And, as others have said, he represents what the voters should be looking for in terms of personality and work ethic. I just worry that they will hold the "no SB rings" and no double-digit TD seasons things against him.

We need to get that man a SB ring!!

infantrycak
02-16-2012, 12:39 AM
I remember him going at it with George Seifert but I don't know what they mean by "obscene" behavior.

He had some incidents of unexpectedly walking up to teammates and pressing his naked groin against them while they were sitting at their lockers.

Double Barrel
02-16-2012, 11:15 AM
How about Charles Haley? He was the best DE on five SB winning teams.

Without a doubt, another travesty. It's like Rush and Deep Purple being excluded from the rock and roll hall of fame. It lessens the meaning of these institutions when they leave out clear examples of greatness.

Vinny
02-16-2012, 12:08 PM
He had some incidents of unexpectedly walking up to teammates and pressing his naked groin against them while they were sitting at their lockers.yeah, many thought he was just insane. He had many incidents along these lines...and I'm sure we don't know the worst of the stories either. On play alone, he was a HOF'er for sure. Perhaps he was just so much a jerk nobody is going to vote him in.

Vinny
02-16-2012, 12:09 PM
No question A.J. is a bonafide stud. And, as others have said, he represents what the voters should be looking for in terms of personality and work ethic. I just worry that they will hold the "no SB rings" and no double-digit TD seasons things against him.

We need to get that man a SB ring!!They didn't hold no sb rings and a short career against Gayle Sayers, Dan Marino and many other players that were considered the best of their era.

ObsiWan
02-16-2012, 01:04 PM
They didn't hold no sb rings and a short career against Gayle Sayers, Dan Marino and many other players that were considered the best of their era.

And are any of the guys who voted them in around today? Very few, if any.

Gayle Sayers was one of a kind. Twenty-two TDs in his rookie year - and that's on a total of 232 touches (PR, KRs, receptions, and rushes). That's nearly one TD every ten times he touched the ball. Six TDs in one game. Voted All-Pro (not pro bowl) five times in his six seasons. Led the league in rushing twice and in yds from scrimmage 2 or 3 times.

Marino owned every significant passing record when he retired. Manning and Brees are just starting to rewrite some of them. But when he was voted in, he owned nearly all of them and still owns quite a few. You can look at the list HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino) .

What NFL records does A.J. hold or share? I can't find any. I remember Kubiak pointing out he was the fastest to some yardage milestone of any receiver but that's not like saying he holds the all time yardage or reception or TD record now is it?

With few records to point to and no rings, A.J. is great role model but no shoe in for the HoF.

I heard, a long time ago, some wagging tongue talking about Moss or T.O. or someone regarding whether they belonged in the Hall. They said, "If you have to argue them into the Hall of Fame, they probably don't belong." And I agree. A Hall of Fame selection should be a no-brainer. Marino? Rings or not, he was a no-brainer. So was Sayers when he was elected in 1977 (I wonder if he'd get in today since his career was so short).

Trust me, I want A.J. in as much as you do. I just don't trust the current generation of voters to give him that honor. ...especially without a SB ring or league MVP to point to.

ensign_lee
02-16-2012, 01:05 PM
Sadly, no. Without more success from the Texans, including a championship run, AJ unfortunately will always be glossed over. :(

ObsiWan
02-16-2012, 01:53 PM
He had some incidents of unexpectedly walking up to teammates and pressing his naked groin against them while they were sitting at their lockers.

ooooo-kaaaaay
sorry I asked.

TexansFanatic
02-17-2012, 10:22 PM
Not without a Super Bowl ring.

ckhouston
02-19-2012, 10:56 AM
If the FO can put someone decent under center then he will be first ballot no doubt.

Ryan
02-19-2012, 12:17 PM
If the FO can put someone decent under center then he will be first ballot no doubt.


What's up, Sage?

DocBar
02-19-2012, 07:58 PM
When it comes to receivers, if you have to ask, then no. Period. Nothing else needed. STFU.

TejasTom
02-23-2012, 10:56 AM
Through the 2010–11 NFL season, Johnson ranks first all-time in NFL history in receiving yards per game (80.7 yds/game) for a career.

In 2008 first player in NFL history to record 7 games with at least 10 receptions.

In 2009 Johnson joined Jerry Rice as the only two receivers since the merger to lead the league in receiving yards in consecutive seasons.

In 2010 he became first player with at least 60 in each of his first eight seasons.

TEXANRED
11-18-2013, 10:50 PM
Originally I said no but looking at the company he keeps:

currently 18th all time. He could easily pass James lofton if he plays next year the way he played this year. just think of what he could have done had he ever had a real QB in his career.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_career.htm


1. Jerry Rice+ 22,895 1985-2004 3TM
2. Terrell Owens 15,934 1996-2010 5TM
3. Randy Moss 15,292 1998-2012 5TM
4. Isaac Bruce 15,208 1994-2009 2TM
5. Tim Brown 14,934 1988-2004 2TM
6. Tony Gonzalez (36) 14,824 1997-2013 2TM
7. Marvin Harrison 14,580 1996-2008 clt
8. James Lofton+ 14,004 1978-1993 5TM
9. Cris Carter+ 13,899 1987-2002 3TM
10. Henry Ellard 13,777 1983-1998 3TM
11. Reggie Wayne (34) 13,566 2001-2013 clt
12. Torry Holt 13,382 1999-2009 2TM
13. Andre Reed 13,198 1985-2000 2TM
14. Steve Largent+ 13,089 1976-1989 sea
15. Irving Fryar 12,785 1984-2000 4TM
16. Art Monk+ 12,721 1980-1995 3TM
17. Jimmy Smith 12,287 1992-2005 2TM
18. Andre Johnson (31) 12,220 2003-2013 htx
19. Charlie Joiner+ 12,146 1969-1986 3TM
20. Hines Ward 12,083 1998-2011 pit

Bulls on Parade
11-18-2013, 10:56 PM
Surely the voters will take into account the type of teams he played for during the majority of his career. I've seen great players on bad teams make the Hall of Fame before. They don't need to dominate every category. His lack of career Touchdowns isn't a problem, IMO.

eriadoc
11-18-2013, 10:57 PM
Originally I said no but looking at the company he keeps:

currently 18th all time. He could easily pass James lofton if he plays next year the way he played this year. just think of what he could have done had he ever had a real QB in his career.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_career.htm

Look at all the WRs in front of him that are either not in the HOF, or had to wait a very long time (Monk). Cris Carter was kind of a no brainer and he still had to wait a while.

Bulls on Parade
11-18-2013, 11:00 PM
Look at all the WRs in front of him that are either not in the HOF, or had to wait a very long time (Monk). Cris Carter was kind of a no brainer and he still had to wait a while.
You're right but I also feel Andre Johnson is far from done. I think he'll play another five or six more seasons. He's going to come very close to Jerry Rice's career receiving yardage. He'll pass Terrell Owens, who is only going to have a long wait because of his bad attitude and bitter exit from the league.

eriadoc
11-18-2013, 11:05 PM
You're right but I also feel Andre Johnson is far from done. I think he'll play another five or six more seasons. He's going to come very close to Jerry Rice's career receiving yardage.

That's the path. He's not a prolific scorer, he doesn't play for a marquee team, and he doesn't play in the playoffs. So the only way he makes it is to bludgeon voters with receiving yardage.

TEXANRED
11-18-2013, 11:06 PM
Look at all the WRs in front of him that are either not in the HOF, or had to wait a very long time (Monk). Cris Carter was kind of a no brainer and he still had to wait a while.

Realistically aj could be 15th all time by the end of the season. If he plays 14 years like the rest of his counter parts he could very well be #2 all time.

RTP2110
11-18-2013, 11:11 PM
We all love Dre, but could you imagine that induction speech?

TEXANRED
11-18-2013, 11:13 PM
We all love Dre, but could you imagine that induction speech?

well i would just like to mublemublemumblemublemublemublemumblemumblemumblec ortlanfinnagenhahahahahahahahamumblemumblemumblemu mblemumble thank you.

The1ApplePie
11-18-2013, 11:38 PM
AJ will have a tough uphill battle with Moss and TO ahead of him, though maybe the Hall will be more generous with receivers in the next decade or so.

Texecutioner
11-18-2013, 11:42 PM
Everyone keep talking about the QB's, but the biggest thing that has plagued AJ's career as far as I'm concerned is Capers/Palmer and Kubiak.

infantrycak
11-19-2013, 12:26 AM
Look at all the WRs in front of him that are either not in the HOF, or had to wait a very long time (Monk). Cris Carter was kind of a no brainer and he still had to wait a while.

AJ is not done yet. By the time he is he may very well have only one player in front of him.

Cris Carter was for from a no brainer. In a 15 year career he was the leading WR on his team only 5 times and 3 of those were 962, 681 & 1071 yds.

AJ will have a tough uphill battle with Moss and TO ahead of him, though maybe the Hall will be more generous with receivers in the next decade or so.

Folks always leave Marvin Harrison off. He'll be up next year for the 1st time.

That is a pair of dogs with flea infestations. If WRs are left waiting around for years, my bet is on them. Both of them were on 5 teams as a result of all the antics.

I think when AJ comes up Harrison will have gotten in and Moss & TO will be cooling their heels.

Reggie Wayne will be the only other guy in the discussion and now we'll have to see how he rebounds. .

Everyone keep talking about the QB's, but the biggest thing that has plagued AJ's career as far as I'm concerned is Capers/Palmer and Kubiak.

Maybe so but imagine this as a sales job by John McClain. He can quantify years with pro bowlers or all pros as QB and there is a clear connection between QB & WR. Coaching isn't going to be as easy to quantify or sell.

Norg
11-19-2013, 01:10 AM
like others have said

What hes done so far NO


but if he keep laying at a high level injury free he has a chance gotta get them numbers up tho

ajohnson80
11-19-2013, 01:35 AM
i say yes. People that know football all rave about Andre Johnson and are very aware just how much he has accomplished with crap to average qbs that never learned to target him very well in the redzone.

TheMatrix31
11-19-2013, 02:19 AM
During recent games (for sure the last game), I've heard announcers lay the groundwork for it by saying things like "and now the future, no-doubt Hall of Famer Andre Johnson" or something like that.

I think they're laying the narrative. Andre is the best WR I've seen not named Jerry Rice. Maybe not in accomplishments or statistics, but ability. The dude is just...words can't describe how special he is as a player.

IDEXAN
11-19-2013, 08:08 AM
Whether or not Andre should go into the HOF based purely upon his resume (and I'm with most Texans' fans who think his resume more than qualifies him), he'll get in on politics as much as any reason because when he's eligible (atleast 5 years from now), the Texans will have been in league competition by then for atleast 15 years and still without a single member in the Hall.

PapaL
11-19-2013, 08:18 AM
Whether or not Andre should go into the HOF based purely upon his resume (and I'm with most Texans' fans who think his resume more than qualifies him), he'll get in on politics as much as any reason because when he's eligible (atleast 5 years from now), the Texans will have been in league competition by then for atleast 15 years and still without a single member in the Hall.

This.

Mr teX
11-19-2013, 08:30 AM
We all love him and for a while there it seemed like he was destined for canton but when you see guys like carter and reed cant make it, does aj have a realistic shot at getting in esp with the way the league is getting pass happy and more wrs are putting up prolific numbers

carter: 1101 rec, 13,899 yds, 130 tds
aj: 706 rec, 9656 yds, 52 tds

tbh eventhough he should have a few good seasons left, i cant see him making it (as much as I want him to). imo his lack of tds will hurt him when its all time to make his case.....


I think he'll get in, but it's gonna take a good while for him to get in...sort of like it took for Art Monk.

But it's more than just his lack of TD's. Too many guys with the same impact & better career numbers have created a log jam at the position.

Tim Brown isn't in yet
Andre Reed still isn't in yet..
Issac Bruce isn't in yet
Randy Moss will be coming eligible soon
Terrell Owens will be coming elgible soon


& this isn't even counting guys in his generation...guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith & Larry Fitzgerald who all will be at least as deserving as well.

& If guy like Chris Carter didn't get in on the 1st ballot you know AJ's gonna have a hard time getting in.


Snacks..aka John McClain is gonna have his hands full trying to argue for AJ to get in amongst all these guys that will become elgible in the next 10 years.

disaacks3
11-19-2013, 10:26 AM
I think he'll get in, but it's gonna take a good while for him to get in...sort of like it took for Art Monk.

But it's more than just his lack of TD's. Too many guys with the same impact & better career numbers have created a log jam at the position.

Tim Brown isn't in yet
Andre Reed still isn't in yet..
Issac Bruce isn't in yet
Randy Moss will be coming eligible soon
Terrell Owens will be coming elgible soon


& this isn't even counting guys in his generation...guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith & Larry Fitzgerald who all will be at least as deserving as well.

& If guy like Chris Carter didn't get in on the 1st ballot you know AJ's gonna have a hard time getting in.


Snacks..aka John McClain is gonna have his hands full trying to argue for AJ to get in amongst all these guys that will become elgible in the next 10 years.

Chris Carter didn't get in right away because he's an ******* who pissed off too many people on his way up.

Part of Tim Brown's issue was the way he played three lousy seasons at the end of his career. (Same thing with Isaac Bruce & Andre Reed) Andre is on pace to crush all but Brown's TD numbers.

Isaac Bruce also has a dearth of All-Pro and Pro Bowl selections to contend with.

Andre Reed's total yds might be considered low for the seasons played when all is said & done as well.

Randy Moss makes it easy.
Marvin Harrison does as well.
Terrell Owens makes it, but maybe not on 1st go-round for attitude.

Andre's biggest fault will be lack of TDs. The best cure for that is a lot of late-career TDs so that the last years are fantastic in the voters minds. We can also hope they factor in the non-pass-happy offenses he's played in (Unlike Moss, Bruce and Harrison)

Mr teX
11-19-2013, 10:31 AM
Chris Carter didn't get in right away because he's an ******* who pissed off too many people on his way up.

Part of Tim Brown's issue was the way he played three lousy seasons at the end of his career. (Same thing with Isaac Bruce & Andre Reed) Andre is on pace to crush all but Brown's TD numbers.

Isaac Bruce also has a dearth of All-Pro and Pro Bowl selections to contend with.

Andre Reed's total yds might be considered low for the seasons played when all is said & done as well.

Randy Moss makes it easy.
Marvin Harrison does as well.
Terrell Owens makes it, but maybe not on 1st go-round for attitude.

Andre's biggest fault will be lack of TDs. The best cure for that is a lot of late-career TDs so that the last years are fantastic in the voters minds. We can also hope they factor in the non-pass-happy offenses he's played in (Unlike Moss, Bruce and Harrison)

The point is, most of those guys will be & should be in before him imo. & you know how the HOF is with WR's...he'll be waiting a long time.

RagingBull
11-19-2013, 01:15 PM
The one thing no one ever mentions about whether guys get into the HOF has to do with their personality. It is, in fact, a personality contest as well as a look at ones productivity. EVERYONE LOVES AJ! He is like Jerry Rice in that way. Even people who are not Texans fans are AJ fans. It is kind of like Peyton Manning, it is hard not to like the guy except when he is playing you. For that reason, he will get in.

You look at guys like TO that are polarizing and mouthy, and there are plenty of guys that don't like them. They have a MUCH harder time getting the votes than someone like AJ who has borderline numbers but everyone likes because, lets face it, he is an awesome person, not just an awesome player.

Hervoyel
11-19-2013, 01:30 PM
Well, a great poster from the past called this a long time ago so I'm thinking that Andre Johnson will just have to make do without a HoF jacket. Shame really. Think what AJ could have done with Carr throwing to him if only his hands weren't limiting his physical ability.

I hope AJ and Carr become great as a duo, but I think AJ's hands are going to limit his great physical ability. I think you will find that Davis has very good hands along with Miller and Carr did dump a lot of passes in this senior year to people coming out of the back field.....

Texans Talk circa 2004 :spit:

Double Barrel
11-19-2013, 01:32 PM
One of the issues today is the old-timers - the HoF players who vote - look at today's pass-happy game with a bit of disdain. The perceive QBs as having official-sanctioned "protection bubbles" around them. And they see receivers no longer scared to go across the middle and rule changes that clearly favor offensive players.

I think AJ should go in first ballot, but I'm not a voter. What the voters think is what matters, and there is no doubt that they think today's NFL is watered down and gaudy stats reflect those changes.

How often have we seen multiple 5000+ passing yards for QBs? How long did the record stand for 7 TDs in a game before TWO QBs have already tied it this season (one of them being some unknown dude at that?).

400 yards passing in a game is no longer special. Check this out:

There was a time in the NFL when a quarterback who passed for 400 yards in a game had done something really special. That time has passed.

Consider this: In 2005, there were only two 400-yard passing games all season, both by Marc Bulger of the Rams. In 2013, that total has already been surpassed, and Week One isnít even over. Peyton Manning, Eli Manning and Colin Kaepernick all topped 400 yards this week.

NFL quarterbacks have picked up this season right where they left off in the last couple of seasons. Over the last 35 weeks of the regular season, stretching back to Week One of 2011, there have been 36 quarterbacks who threw for 400 yards in a game. Basically, in the NFL these days, we average a 400-yard passer a week.

And when you see something every week, it stops being special. In the 1970s, there were five 400-yard passing games for the entire decade.

Source (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/09/the-400-yard-passing-game-is-no-longer-special/)

I'm not arguing against AJ in the HoF.

Rather, I am seeing a clear trend that will be taken into account by HoF voters. You simply cannot compare raw numbers of Art Monk to a modern receiver, because the game is drastically changing to favor offenses.

From the same article:

Quarterbacks are protected from hits. Wide receivers are protected from hits. Pass interference, illegal contact and defensive holding are called much more stringently.

What has also changed is that young quarterbacks come into the league ready to command an NFL offense immediately. In the old days, it took years for quarterbacks to make the transition from the college game to the NFL. Now young quarterbacks can do it immediately. In NFL history, there have only been four 400-yard passing games by rookie quarterbacks, and all four of them happened in the last two years.

Just food for thought. Hopefully voters take into account AJ's career with an expansion team, the dignity that he has represented, and of course his consistently amazing talent that just got showcased the past couple of weeks with some spectacular TD catches.

eriadoc
11-19-2013, 02:40 PM
400 yards passing in a game is no longer special. Check this out:

Been harping on that for a while re: Schaub. Wasn't especially impressed with Schaub's 4000 yard seasons and by extension, receivers collect a lot of that yardage. I personally value TDs over yardage. TDs and turnovers affect the final score way, way more than yardage. Yardage still matters, of course, but in the same way that 1000 yards is no longer impressive for a running back, the metric needs to be adjusted for inflation. The fact that AJ is one of only two or three receivers with three seasons of 1500 yards is impressive. So context matters.

I'd vote him in just because he makes plays that other WRs can't make, even those with better numbers at times.

Double Barrel
11-19-2013, 04:01 PM
Been harping on that for a while re: Schaub. Wasn't especially impressed with Schaub's 4000 yard seasons and by extension, receivers collect a lot of that yardage. I personally value TDs over yardage. TDs and turnovers affect the final score way, way more than yardage. Yardage still matters, of course, but in the same way that 1000 yards is no longer impressive for a running back, the metric needs to be adjusted for inflation. The fact that AJ is one of only two or three receivers with three seasons of 1500 yards is impressive. So context matters.

I'd vote him in just because he makes plays that other WRs can't make, even those with better numbers at times.

I agree with you.

I think 'cak's argument is a good one, as well, because it's relative to the times (like you said, context). AJ has been an elite receiver his entire career and he has led the league in stats for individual seasons. It's not like the HoF is going to completely blacklist all WRs, so in that regard, AJ has a body of work, a reputation as non-showboating workhorse, and I also think his loyalty to the franchise should be considered in voting, as well.

I'm just hoping he retires a Texan many years from now and the next regime uses him effectively to win games (i.e. score TDs!).

kiwitexansfan
11-19-2013, 04:06 PM
Does anyone else think that the fact he would be the first Texans player to make it, actually makes it easier to get in?

eriadoc
11-19-2013, 04:10 PM
Does anyone else think that the fact he would be the first Texans player to make it, actually makes it easier to get in?

Ehh, maybe, but do the Jags have a HOFer yet? How about the Panthers?

CretorFrigg
11-19-2013, 04:13 PM
I'm just hoping he retires a Texan many years from now and the next regime uses him effectively to win games (i.e. score TDs!).

I see what you did there.

infantrycak
11-19-2013, 05:21 PM
Ehh, maybe, but do the Jags have a HOFer yet? How about the Panthers?

The answer is no, but who have they had who was arguable should be?

Julius Peppers and Steve Smith will eventually be considered.

eriadoc
11-19-2013, 05:25 PM
The answer is no, but who have they had who was arguable should be?

I think if you're going with the premise of slackened requirements for an expansion franchise's first ever, a case could be made for Jimmy Smith (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitJi00.htm) from the Jags. The Panthers, I have no idea.

infantrycak
11-19-2013, 05:38 PM
I think if you're going with the premise of slackened requirements for an expansion franchise's first ever, a case could be made for Jimmy Smith (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitJi00.htm) from the Jags. The Panthers, I have no idea.

We're talking a feather on the scales, not a brick.

Maddict5
11-19-2013, 07:22 PM
During recent games (for sure the last game), I've heard announcers lay the groundwork for it by saying things like "and now the future, no-doubt Hall of Famer Andre Johnson" or something like that.

I think they're laying the narrative. Andre is the best WR I've seen not named Jerry Rice. Maybe not in accomplishments or statistics, but ability. The dude is just...words can't describe how special he is as a player.

not seen many Detroit lions games eh? not a slight at aj who is great but megatron is on pace to be an all-timer.. think most objective Texans fans would agree with that

panamamyers
11-19-2013, 08:07 PM
I think he'll get in, but it's gonna take a good while for him to get in...sort of like it took for Art Monk.

But it's more than just his lack of TD's. Too many guys with the same impact & better career numbers have created a log jam at the position.

Tim Brown isn't in yet
Andre Reed still isn't in yet..
Issac Bruce isn't in yet
Randy Moss will be coming eligible soon
Terrell Owens will be coming elgible soon


& this isn't even counting guys in his generation...guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith & Larry Fitzgerald who all will be at least as deserving as well.

& If guy like Chris Carter didn't get in on the 1st ballot you know AJ's gonna have a hard time getting in.


Snacks..aka John McClain is gonna have his hands full trying to argue for AJ to get in amongst all these guys that will become elgible in the next 10 years.

Tim Brown and Andre Reed are not in the same conversation with Andre Johnson.

Johnson has finished top two in receiving yards per game five different times in his career.
Brown did this once.
Reed only finished in the top 10 three times, never higher than number 5.

Brown and Reed are accumulators. They played a long time and accumulated a lot of stats. They were never the greatest in the game like Andre.

Yards per game and where you finished amongst your peers is the on ly fair way to look at it. It takes out the difference in offenses you may see over different eras.

Heck Randy Moss only finished top two once.

Jerry Rice and Calvin Johnson are the only two guys in the last 40 years with a career as impressive as Andre's.

TEXANRED
11-19-2013, 10:01 PM
Well, a great poster from the past called this a long time ago so I'm thinking that Andre Johnson will just have to make do without a HoF jacket. Shame really. Think what AJ could have done with Carr throwing to him if only his hands weren't limiting his physical ability.



Texans Talk circa 2004 :spit:

NICE FIND! I completely forgot about ibar harry. I used to love reading his posts for comic relief.

TheMatrix31
11-19-2013, 10:56 PM
not seen many Detroit lions games eh? not a slight at aj who is great but megatron is on pace to be an all-timer.. think most objective Texans fans would agree with that

They're both going to end up all-time level WRs.

Naija Texan
11-20-2013, 10:54 PM
Doubt he will be in on the first ballot but eventually he will get in. The man has a number of NFL receiving records and ironically this season has shown he probably could have had more with a better QB or different system.

Andre Johnson, along with Larry Fitzgerald with or without rings are Hall of Fame receivers, doubt either gets in before Randy Moss or Terrell Owens or even Reggie Wayne but they will eventually get in as they have been superb players and represented the league well on and off the field.

Playoffs
12-10-2013, 01:16 PM
TheClaireBear ‏@theclairebear23
'Dre just dropped $17,000 at Toys 'R Us so 12 kids and their siblings can have Christmas. That man is the pride of this city. #Texans

infantrycak
12-10-2013, 01:19 PM
TheClaireBear ‏@theclairebear23

He does that every year.

There was an interesting stat I did not know in the last game. AJ has a higher number of career receptions per game than any other WR ever.

Double Barrel
12-10-2013, 01:20 PM
Spencer Tillman said that AJ is the ONLY player in NFL history to have 20 games of 10+ catches and 100+ yards.

And he is only one of two players in history to have 10 games of 10+ catches and 150+ yards. The other WR is Jerry Rice, who caught the majority of his passes from HoF QBs Joe Montana and Steve Young. AJ, meanwhile, has hit the milestones with guys like David Carr, Tony Banks, Sage Rosenfels, Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, and Case Keenum.

AJ is building a solid case for a HoF career, and he's still going strong! :texflag:

DocBar
12-10-2013, 01:54 PM
Spencer Tillman said that AJ is the ONLY player in NFL history to have 20 games of 10+ catches and 100+ yards.

And he is only one of two players in history to have 10 games of 10+ catches and 150+ yards. The other WR is Jerry Rice, who caught the majority of his passes from HoF QBs Joe Montana and Steve Young. AJ, meanwhile, has hit the milestones with guys like David Carr, Tony Banks, Sage Rosenfels, Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, and Case Keenum.AJ is building a solid case for a HoF career, and he's still going strong! :texflag:I don't think they handicap HoF voting by the quality of talent around a player, do they?

If AJ can play another 2-3 years at a high level, he'll have every stat needed but TD receptions. That will always be a knock against him, especially since he's spent his entire career in the pass-happy era.

eriadoc
12-10-2013, 01:58 PM
I don't think they handicap HoF voting by the quality of talent around a player, do they?

They handicap voting on all sorts of crap. If all they went by was numbers, a fair number of inductees wouldn't be in and a fair number of players who aren't in would make it. One of the knocks against Brazile is that "enough" players from that LYB team have been inducted despite them not winning anything. Never mind all the no brainer arguments for him being inducted.

AJ's best chance at the HoF is to continue making the case that he's one of the top 3 WRs to play during his career. The more crazy stats they can pull up where he's the only one to do it (or just he and Rice) the better.

DocBar
12-10-2013, 02:19 PM
They handicap voting on all sorts of crap. If all they went by was numbers, a fair number of inductees wouldn't be in and a fair number of players who aren't in would make it. One of the knocks against Brazile is that "enough" players from that LYB team have been inducted despite them not winning anything. Never mind all the no brainer arguments for him being inducted.

AJ's best chance at the HoF is to continue making the case that he's one of the top 3 WRs to play during his career. The more crazy stats they can pull up where he's the only one to do it (or just he and Rice) the better.
My heart agrees with you, but my brain says it's gotten much tougher for WR's since the NFL became a pass-dominant league.

Double Barrel
12-10-2013, 02:29 PM
I don't think they handicap HoF voting by the quality of talent around a player, do they?

The voters are human, so I would think so. Probably not advertised or part of official voting policy, but I have little doubt that they consider intangibles like playing for an expansion team, loyalty, and/or quality of teammates could be parts of big picture analysis.

Regardless of TD numbers, AJ has clearly been a leading receiver - sometimes clearly no. 1 - at different points in his career.

And while it is a pass dominant lead, the same thing was said in the '80's when the rules for protecting QBs and making it a more pass friendly league were being implemented. I vividly remember the 49ers taking a lot of flak because they played "finesse" football and were often accused of being scared to get hit. Now we look in hindsight and see a dominant dynasty, but at the time, there was a lot of criticism from the old guard.

I used to be a bit jaded like you, but talking with 'cak, I think AJ will be cream of the crop of this generation. They certainly will not boycott all WRs.

eriadoc
12-10-2013, 02:40 PM
My heart agrees with you, but my brain says it's gotten much tougher for WR's since the NFL became a pass-dominant league.

It is tougher, but as DB said, the HoF won't abandon all WRs. And since AJ came in, he's the only WR to accomplish some of the things he's done, even against other WRs in the same era. AJ has been better than Fitzgerald for the duration of their careers, better than Roddy White, better than Reggie Wayne, better than anyone, really. In any given year, a WR may outperform him, but over the 11 years he's been in, he's been the best.

Calvin Johnson will probably end up being just as good, but no one else has been better than AJ even in this pass happy era.

infantrycak
12-10-2013, 04:02 PM
My heart agrees with you, but my brain says it's gotten much tougher for WR's since the NFL became a pass-dominant league.

And while it is a pass dominant lead, the same thing was said in the '80's when the rules for protecting QBs and making it a more pass friendly league were being implemented. I vividly remember the 49ers taking a lot of flak because they played "finesse" football and were often accused of being scared to get hit. Now we look in hindsight and see a dominant dynasty, but at the time, there was a lot of criticism from the old guard.

Some of what we have talked about in this thread norms for the different time periods, particularly how many times did someone lead the league for a season in receptions, yards, TDs, ypg. Failing to do that points towards accumulated stats and away from being the best of their era so is relative to the time period. So for example, some of the guys commonly talked about as log jamming AJ:

Tim Brown led the league in 1 category in 1 season in a 17 year career.
Isaac Bruce 1 in 16 seasons.
Andre Reed 0 in 16 seasons.
Reggie Wayne 1 in 13 seasons.

A higher group:
Tory Holt 4 in 11 seasons.
Terrell Owens 4 in 15 seasons.
Randy Moss 5 in 16 seasons.
Marvin Harrison 6 in 13 seasons.

AJ 8 in 11 seasons.

and

The GOAT 20 in 21 seasons.

Double Barrel
12-10-2013, 05:27 PM
^^^ that right there is the logic that convinced me that AJ will be in the HoF. :thumbup

DocBar
12-10-2013, 07:32 PM
Some of what we have talked about in this thread norms for the different time periods, particularly how many times did someone lead the league for a season in receptions, yards, TDs, ypg. Failing to do that points towards accumulated stats and away from being the best of their era so is relative to the time period. So for example, some of the guys commonly talked about as log jamming AJ:

Tim Brown led the league in 1 category in 1 season in a 17 year career.
Isaac Bruce 1 in 16 seasons.
Andre Reed 0 in 16 seasons.
Reggie Wayne 1 in 13 seasons.

A higher group:
Tory Holt 4 in 11 seasons.
Terrell Owens 4 in 15 seasons.
Randy Moss 5 in 16 seasons.
Marvin Harrison 6 in 13 seasons.

AJ 8 in 11 seasons.

and

The GOAT 20 in 21 seasons.Very good points.

Norg
12-11-2013, 03:49 AM
andre can look forward to being traded off the the waste land teams of the NFC

take yo pick

Redskins

Chicago

St Louis

Da BUcs

qman_tx
12-13-2013, 04:26 AM
andre can look forward to being traded off the the waste land teams of the NFC

take yo pick

Redskins

Chicago

St Louis

Da BUcs
Out of that bunch I figure he would pick Chicago. Imagine Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, and Alshon Jeffery!

EllisUnit
12-13-2013, 05:01 PM
andre can look forward to being traded off the the waste land teams of the NFC

take yo pick

Redskins

Chicago

St Louis

Da BUcs

AJ will not be going anywhere, especially since Mcnair said this isnt a rebuild

TEXANRED
12-13-2013, 05:07 PM
AJ will not be going anywhere, especially since Mcnair said this isnt a rebuild

Hell no it's not a rebuild. Just look at the Cheifs and Eagles. You can't tell me those teams have more talent than the Texans.

infantrycak
12-13-2013, 05:21 PM
OK folks, let's not turn this into an anything vaguely related to AJ thread. It's about AJ and the HoF.

kiwitexansfan
12-13-2013, 05:29 PM
OK folks, let's not turn this into an anything vaguely related to AJ thread. It's about AJ and the HoF.

Ok, I'll play.

If AJ got traded would it hurt his hall chances?

I think his one team career is part of his charm.

Ryan
12-13-2013, 06:54 PM
AJ may sign somewhere as a FA at age 36, but he will not go anywhere until then. If he even decides to play after that. I'd be interested in the numbers if we traded him since he's restructured about 7 times, but i hope to god that never happens.

He is going to the HOF in my opinion. People universally in the broadcasts when talking about him now say "future hall of famer" which they hadn't before. There is an avid respect for him.

Thorn
12-13-2013, 07:00 PM
AJ will retire a Texan and go to the HOF wearing a Texans uniform.

drs23
12-13-2013, 08:15 PM
AJ will retire a Texan and go to the HOF wearing a Texans uniform.

100% agree. It will happen. He'll be sporting a Texans #80 jersey. Anything else would be blasphemy.

HJam72
12-14-2013, 09:58 AM
February, 2015: AJ scores 3 TDs and is MVP of the Superbowl, sealing his fate as a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. :koolaid: :koolaid: :koolaid:

Texecutioner
12-14-2013, 01:27 PM
It is tougher, but as DB said, the HoF won't abandon all WRs. And since AJ came in, he's the only WR to accomplish some of the things he's done, even against other WRs in the same era. AJ has been better than Fitzgerald for the duration of their careers, better than Roddy White, better than Reggie Wayne, better than anyone, really. In any given year, a WR may outperform him, but over the 11 years he's been in, he's been the best.

Calvin Johnson will probably end up being just as good, but no one else has been better than AJ even in this pass happy era.

Sounds very homerish to decisively suggest that AJ has been better then all of these guys. You could make a strong argument for each one being better in some form depending on what stats you use. They are all great receivers. Some have had better advantages in certain seasons and some have had lesser advantages.

I highly doubt that you would find anyone outside of Houston that would suggest that Calvin might be as good as AJ when most people consider Calvin to be the better receiver now and for several years now. AJ is an all time great in my eyes, but so are several others you just mentioned.

eriadoc
12-14-2013, 09:51 PM
Sounds very homerish to decisively suggest that AJ has been better then all of these guys. You could make a strong argument for each one being better in some form depending on what stats you use. They are all great receivers. Some have had better advantages in certain seasons and some have had lesser advantages.

I highly doubt that you would find anyone outside of Houston that would suggest that Calvin might be as good as AJ when most people consider Calvin to be the better receiver now and for several years now. AJ is an all time great in my eyes, but so are several others you just mentioned.

AJ has been better over the course of his career than those guys I mentioned. That's not taking away from those guys at all. Any of them may have a season or even two that are arguably better than AJ, but none of them are as high in yards, yards/game, and catches as AJ over the course of a career. The only point to that is it's a pass happy era, but even within that framework, AJ has more yards, yards/game, and catches than his contemporaries in the same era. And he's done it with a significant part of his career being hurt by subpar QBs. AJ did better with Carr than Fitzgerald did with Leinart, for example, and Fitz is the best comparison to AJ.

As for the homerish comment, I've argued both sides of the AJ HOF debate, so neither side ever wants to believe what I type at various times LOL. So whatever.

Vinny
12-21-2013, 03:31 PM
I think the perception across the league is that Andre is a future HOF'er. I think many people wonder what his TD #'s would look like with better quarterbacking in his career.

Texecutioner
12-21-2013, 03:53 PM
AJ has been better over the course of his career than those guys I mentioned. That's not taking away from those guys at all. Any of them may have a season or even two that are arguably better than AJ, but none of them are as high in yards, yards/game, and catches as AJ over the course of a career. The only point to that is it's a pass happy era, but even within that framework, AJ has more yards, yards/game, and catches than his contemporaries in the same era. And he's done it with a significant part of his career being hurt by subpar QBs. AJ did better with Carr than Fitzgerald did with Leinart, for example, and Fitz is the best comparison to AJ.

As for the homerish comment, I've argued both sides of the AJ HOF debate, so neither side ever wants to believe what I type at various times LOL. So whatever.

It seems to me that you are only using yards as a barometer which makes AJ look better than a lot of guys in that respect. However, there are a ton of other things to measure a receiver by one of which is a stat that AJ lacks big time which is TD's. AJ has never gotten over 10 while several of these other guys we're discussing have done it routinely along with a lot of yards. Now a lot of that I'll admit was due to coaching with Capers and Kubiak's awful RZ plays that didn't feature AJ well. I think all of us have always believed that AJ's lack of TD's have not really been his fault and more on the coaching staff, but it doesn't change the fact of what his stats say in that category and his whole career of only playing in 4 playoff games between two seasons. I could pull of every stat sheet of those guys mentioned and probably break down a very sound argument for why each one of those WR's were better than the other or why they should be in the HOF, but the fact is that there will probably be several including AJ that don't get it at least for a very long time. I don't think AJ gets in for probably at least 15 years or so and it will have to be in a season where there aren't a ton of "first ballot" shoe in players. I'd say it's about a 50/50 shot that AJ ever gets in.

Playoffs
10-08-2014, 01:02 PM
Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith
Irvin also said he thinks it will be difficult for Johnson to finish his career in Houston.

....no telling what Andre Johnson would have done."

Michael Irvin on Andre Johnson: "If you give him a whole career with Peyton Manning or a whole career with Troy Aikman, then there's ...

And Irvin believes Johnson should be HoF lock because he's never played with a QB who'll be remembered once their career is over.

Michael Irvin made two strong points about Andre Johnson: Best WR in Miami history -- better than Irvin, Wayne...

badboy
10-08-2014, 01:07 PM
I am more interested in seeing if AJ goes to the pay window next season in Houston

infantrycak
10-08-2014, 01:15 PM
Just an observation - AJ is now routinely referred to as "future hall of famer Andre Johnson." Not possible, potential, if he keeps this up - no qualifiers.

Dean1818
10-08-2014, 02:50 PM
The truly sad thing is, that if he were paired with a Drew Bree's, Tom Brady, Bret Farve, or Peyton Manning, he would be passing Jerry Rice, and it wouldn't have even be considered a question.......

michaelm
10-08-2014, 02:55 PM
At some point, I think (and hope) that the lack of playing with an elite QB will play in his favor. The man has proven he can produce no matter what crap is trotted out to throw the ball to him.

That's got to count for something. At least in my (admittedly biased) book.

bah007
10-08-2014, 03:03 PM
Anyone with half a brain could tell that Andre has more than enough talent to be considered for the Hall of Fame.

I think the issue has always been, are his stats good enough? I don't know the answer to that, but if you look at who he was playing with as he put up those stats then the answer is a most definite yes.

Ryan
10-08-2014, 03:03 PM
He's in my opinion the second best to ever play the game. The dude has always brought it with this crap we've given him at QB and for the first 11 years paired next to him at WR. No doubt he goes in IMO.

IDEXAN
10-08-2014, 03:04 PM
AJ for the first time or very soon will have serious competition as the best player in Texans' history, nevertheless there's little doubt that he's going to be the first Texans player nominated to a ballot for HOF consideration and by then it will be time if it's not already time that the Texans to have somebody in the Hall.
Couple that with the general popularity/respect for franchise founder Bob McNair and just the fact that AJ is fully HOF eligible on the merits alone, and I got little doubt that he's the Texans first HOFamer.

Ryan
10-08-2014, 03:05 PM
Anyone with half a brain could tell that Andre has more than enough talent to be considered for the Hall of Fame.

I think the issue has always been, are his stats good enough? I don't know the answer to that, but if you look at who he was playing with as he put up those stats then the answer is a most definite yes.

His receptions and yardage by the time he hangs it up are easily Hall of Fame worthy. His TDs are low, but i'm curious to know his numbers for all time redzone targets, because for whatever reason we never throw it to him in the redzone.

dream_team
10-08-2014, 03:10 PM
Yes. I think a better question is will he be first ballot?

Mollywhopper
10-08-2014, 03:17 PM
Andre in the Hall is a given if the only consideration given is what he did with JAG's for QB's, much less what could have been.

The shame is that Andre's greatness will forever be coupled with a required remembrance of the Texans ineptness.

Barry Sanders is the only other player, off the top of my of head, of such great ability and production that also had to endure such mediocrity from their franchise.

gtexan02
10-08-2014, 03:29 PM
Andre in the Hall is a given if the only consideration given is what he did with JAG's for QB's, much less what could have been.

The shame is that Andre's greatness will forever be coupled with a required remembrance of the Texans ineptness.

Barry Sanders is the only other player, off the top of my of head, of such great ability and production that also had to endure such mediocrity from their franchise.

Eh, there's a lot of players whose potential was not maximized during their primes.

Who has Tom Brady had to throw to?
How many championships did Marino win?
How many times has Calvin Johnson been in the playoffs?
Who has Larry Fitzgerald had to throw to him?

Mollywhopper
10-08-2014, 03:57 PM
Eh, there's a lot of players whose potential was not maximized during their primes.

Who has Tom Brady had to throw to?
How many championships did Marino win?
How many times has Calvin Johnson been in the playoffs?
Who has Larry Fitzgerald had to throw to him?

Tom Brady had Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowski. Not to mention very quality o-lines.
I considered Marino, but he had Clayton & Duper and overall some pretty competitive teams throughout.
Calvin's still pretty early on to consider, but he's got a pro bowl caliber qb as is.
Fitzgerald has had f*ck all as of late, but he had a HoF qb early and played on a super bowl team.

I don't think any of those guys for the duration of their careers have settled for the frustration of an Andre or Barry Sanders in terms of team futility. I could see Marino in that convo though.

infantrycak
10-08-2014, 04:14 PM
Eh, there's a lot of players whose potential was not maximized during their primes.

Who has Tom Brady had to throw to?
How many championships did Marino win?
How many times has Calvin Johnson been in the playoffs?
Who has Larry Fitzgerald had to throw to him?

You just named one guy who is in, one guy who is a lock and 2 guys who are probables. Your point was?

Vance87
10-08-2014, 04:33 PM
You just named one guy who is in, one guy who is a lock and 2 guys who are probables. Your point was?

I think that was his point.

steelbtexan
10-08-2014, 05:15 PM
I am more interested in seeing if AJ goes to the pay window next season in Houston

I wonder about this too. AJ's cap space sure would come in handy.

No he's not a HOF'er. He was the best WR in the NFL for a 5 yrs window and still performed well with avg to below avg QB play. I personally thought Schaub was above avg before he hurt his foot.

AJ doesn't make the HOF due to injury and not doing it long enough. I know this wont set well with the koolaid drinkers but just wait and see what happens. Was AJ a HOF talent? Of course he was/is. The numbers wont be there though.

Texanmike02
10-08-2014, 05:23 PM
Lets look at this objectively:

AJ has been considered a top 10 receiver for almost his entire career. He has been considered a top 5 receiver for probably 8 years, a top 3 receiver for 5 or six years and most people would have put him as 1 or 1a for 3 or 4 years.

He is 3rd over all in yards/game but his greatness was never measured in statistics. There are so many of his plays that you can look at and see just pure dominance. You can look at him on a spreadsheet and he looks awesome but watch a highlight clip and he is so much more than his statistics. That play against AZ for example (you know the play). It is like Campbell's plays running over people, it is old school physically beat you down football.

Mike

JB
10-08-2014, 05:23 PM
I wonder about this too. AJ's cap space sure would come in handy.

No he's not a HOF'er. He was the best WR in the NFL for a 5 yrs window and still performed well with avg to below avg QB play. I personally thought Schaub was above avg before he hurt his foot.

AJ doesn't make the HOF due to injury and not doing it long enough. I know this wont set well with the koolaid drinkers but just wait and see what happens. Was AJ a HOF talent? Of course he was/is. The numbers wont be there though.

That's one of the main criteria for consideration in the HOF. Best at your position for multiple years... not many can say that

infantrycak
10-08-2014, 05:27 PM
That's one of the main criteria for consideration in the HOF. Best at your position for multiple years... not many can say that

Yeah, I'm trying to get from that statement to the absolute certainty he won't get in.

I don't get the "numbers won't be there" comment either. TDs are his only weakness. His numbers are already worthy otherwise.

xtruroyaltyx
10-08-2014, 05:47 PM
If John McClain is still alive, he's getting in for sure.

He'll be beating that horse from the day AJ retires.

Double Barrel
10-08-2014, 05:58 PM
If John McClain is still alive, he's getting in for sure.

He'll be beating that horse from the day AJ retires.

I was just getting to post about McClain. He has already said that he will be lobbying hard for AJ when he's eligible. McClain also has a vote, iirc.

steelbtexan
10-08-2014, 06:35 PM
If John McClain is still alive, he's getting in for sure.

He'll be beating that horse from the day AJ retires.

I forgot about Pancakes.

He lobbied hard for Moon and he made the HOF. I would expect the same for AJ. I retract my previous statement.

DocBar
10-08-2014, 07:16 PM
I've been thinking on this and AJ is getting close to being a lock for the HOF. TD's and inflated numbers due to the era he's playing in will hurt him, but I think if he can get to 75-80 TD's, the era issue will go away. I also think that he's been a model citizen will be a factor due to the increased attention being paid to off-field behavior.

Lucky
10-08-2014, 07:24 PM
If John McClain is still alive, he's getting in for sure.

He'll be beating that horse from the day AJ retires.
I clown on the guy a lot. But his record for hawking Houston players to the HOF is impeccable.

JB
10-08-2014, 07:36 PM
I clown on the guy a lot. But his record for hawking Houston players to the HOF is impeccable.


He still has a lot of respect around the league... he was a damn good reporter at one time

TheMatrix31
10-08-2014, 10:34 PM
Andre Johnson is the best receiver not named Jerry Rice that I have ever seen, taking into account size, speed, route-running, heart, and performance. Just an unreal, unreal player. Not to mention he's basically been the model citizen and teammate, outside of a couple instances of whining. Even Andre's allowed that, I guess.

He should definitely be in the HOF, stats be damned.

Kaiser Toro
10-08-2014, 11:26 PM
I do not see him as a first ballot, but will ultimately get in due to his professionalism and consistency between the red zones

Mollywhopper
10-08-2014, 11:56 PM
I do not see him as a first ballot, but will ultimately get in due to his professionalism and consistency between the red zones

If by "consistency between the red zones" you mean "his ability to be a f*ck*ng reliable menace for every team to contend with between the red zones throughout his career", then I definitely agree. And any voter worth his salt should be aware that Andre's usage inside the red zones has been a crime to the franchise that he's not been an accomplice.

He should be a certifiable Hall lock, and a Hall heavy year should be the only remote concern as a first ballot goes.

sandman
10-09-2014, 05:41 AM
I wonder about this too. AJ's cap space sure would come in handy.

No he's not a HOF'er. He was the best WR in the NFL for a 5 yrs window and still performed well with avg to below avg QB play. I personally thought Schaub was above avg before he hurt his foot.

AJ doesn't make the HOF due to injury and not doing it long enough. I know this wont set well with the koolaid drinkers but just wait and see what happens. Was AJ a HOF talent? Of course he was/is. The numbers wont be there though.

I'll break out the Pro Football Reference stats again if you would like, but Tory Holt is the only player in the top 15 all time in reception and yards who has gotten there in the same amount of years or quicker than AJ has. For all of our talk about Larry Fitzpatrick, he has had one less year than Andre in the NFL and is 100 receptions and 1500 yards behind him, or basically one season.

In other words, he has produced at a faster rate than all but one person at the top of the All Time list. Even though he missed a major portion of two seasons. Everyone in the top 15, with the exception of Holt, played at least 14 years. Andre is already surpassing them in year 12.

Not sure how you can justify the position that he doesn't have the numbers currently, or won't have the numbers if he plays for the 14 year minimum of his contemporaries.

eriadoc
10-09-2014, 06:12 AM
I clown on the guy a lot. But his record for hawking Houston players to the HOF is impeccable.

If by "impeccable", you mean not interested in pushing for Dr. Doom, I agree.

I'll break out the Pro Football Reference stats again if you would like, but Tory Holt is the only player in the top 15 all time in reception and yards who has gotten there in the same amount of years or quicker than AJ has.

Torry Holt is the guy I always point to when this question comes up. Their numbers are very similar, except Holt has something like 18 more TDs through the same point in their career (from memory, probably off by a couple). But no one seriously considers Holt. Holt was the fastest ever to 10000 yards, and Fitzgerald was the second fastest. Anquan Boldin was the fastest player to 600 receptions. So I'm not sure what those kinds of numbers will even mean to the voters in 10 years, when every star WR will be putting up those sorts of numbers. Hell, CJ is on pace to make all of these WRs' stats obsolete.

I don't know if AJ will get in or not, but I do know he passes the eyeball test. Compare his numbers to whoever you like, but people who have watched AJ, especially in his prime, know how good he is.

sandman
10-09-2014, 06:47 AM
Torry Holt is the guy I always point to when this question comes up. Their numbers are very similar, except Holt has something like 18 more TDs through the same point in their career (from memory, probably off by a couple). But no one seriously considers Holt. Holt was the fastest ever to 10000 yards, and Fitzgerald was the second fastest. Anquan Boldin was the fastest player to 600 receptions. So I'm not sure what those kinds of numbers will even mean to the voters in 10 years, when every star WR will be putting up those sorts of numbers. Hell, CJ is on pace to make all of these WRs' stats obsolete.

I don't know if AJ will get in or not, but I do know he passes the eyeball test. Compare his numbers to whoever you like, but people who have watched AJ, especially in his prime, know how good he is.

Yeah, the process of being considered an HoFer is definitely more than just stats. I *think the point I was trying to make is that the poster made the comment over AJ not having done it for long enough or having good enough stats right now, as if his career was already over.

Right now, if he never played another down, he is in the conversation. If he continues to play for a few more years, he puts himself stats-wise in the Top 5-7 all time. His owning or sharing several NFL records are what I think will separate him from the Tory Holt's and Tim Brown's that are at the top of the list.

Most games with 10+ receptions in a season: 7 (tied with Wes Welker)
Most seasons with 100+ receptions: 5 (tied with Wes Welker)
Most seasons with 100+ receptions and 1,400+ yards: 4
Most games with 10+ receptions and 100+ yards: 17