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View Full Version : Film study - Case Keenum vs. S. Miss


76Texan
02-08-2012, 03:29 AM
A couple days ago, I started with the UH vs. Rice game, wanting to compare and contrast it with the Baylor vs. Rice game.

A common opponent for RGIII/Wright and Keenum/Edwards.

But it was just an obscenely ridiculous day for the Coogs, halfway through, I thought I would hold that off as not to show even more homerism.

So I thought, how about taking a look at Keenum's "worst" performance of the year.
That should also shed some light on WR Patrick Edwards as well.

I spent some 10-12 hours on this game.
But I'm sure it's not entirely objective.

Quite a many people are pegging RGIII and Kendall Wright as first rounders.
I have yet to commit a grade to either Keenum nor Edwards.
I'm not expecting neither to go before the third round.
I have no idea where Edwards will land.

What I can tell you is that I like Keenum more than Kolb (and I've followed both of them for their entire career.) But obviously, Kolb has the physical while Keenum is about the same statue as Drew Brees, maybe a little on the plus side.

First, a little personal info:

Case Keenum spent his childhood in Abilene, Texas, and is the son of Steve Keenum who served as an offensive lineman and later as head football coach and athletic director at McMurry.
The elder Keenum, known for an aggressive passing offensive strategy, was also head coach at Sul Ross State, offensive coordinator at Tarleton State, and offensive line coach at Hardin-Simmons.

Case got married before coming back for his 6th year at University of Houston. Kimberly Keenum is also from Abilene, Texas and graduated from Hardin-Simmons University in Abilene.

...

They got married last June, I learned by googling the internet.

At halftime of the S. Miss game, they showed a little bit about the couple that I found quite funny and endearing at the same time, I thought I would share with those who didn't have the chance to watch the game.

The TV crew filmed Kimberly in their tiny garage apartment that is so tiny one has to ask "how tiny is it?"

Well, it's a garage apartment.
They have no coffee table because there's just no room between the couch and the TV.
The couch is 5 feet from the entrance door.
The King size bed almost fills up the bedroom.
They have no dishwasher; she does all the dishes by hand.

....

Without further ado, let's examine Keenum's worst performance of the season.
Keep in mind that there should be some homerism in my review (how much depending on the individual who reads.) http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

76Texan
02-08-2012, 03:34 AM
Coming into the game, Keenum had thrown 45 TDs and only 3 Ints
He would throw 2 Ints in this game.

Possession Clock Ball On
1 KO 15:00 20

(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to SIMS, Charles for no gain to the HOU20 Q(JOHNSON, J.)

Cover 2 - 5 man under
Quick swing pass. Keenum saw the LDE gaining on his RT;
he threw the ball slightly behind the RB (so that the ball is away from the DE to avoid the batted ball).

The nickel back did a good job getting off the block of the slot receiver and get just a piece of Simms who couldn't maintain balance and was only able to get back to the LOS.


(2nd and 10) KEENUM, Case OT pass incomplete to JOHNSON, Justin.

Cover 2; 6 man under; rush 3
Keenum read coverage well; he double pumped and held off until he saw that the safety had bitten on the underneath route before throwing the out route.
The safety held the receiver slightly; the ball was just off the fingertips of Justin Johnson.
That could have been a TD or a very long gain.


(3rd and 10) KEENUM, Case rush QK for 5 yards to the HOU25 (JOHNSON, E.;LAW, Cordarro).

Pocket collapsed with just 4 rushers; Keenum ran toward the left side line, eyes looking downfield; ball cocked ready to throw


(4th and 5) LEONE, Richie punt 25 yards to the 50 yardline, downed.

76Texan
02-08-2012, 03:40 AM
(4th and 13) BOEHME, Peter punt 53 yards to the HOU0, touchback.

Possession Clock Ball On
3 12:48 20

The first drive is number 1
S. Miss first drive is number 2
This drive is number 3

(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 12:48.

(1st and 10) SIMS, Charles rush up middle for 17 yards to the HOU37, 1ST DOWN HOU (WHEATON, M.;JOHNSON, J.).

(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to CARRIER, Tyron for 2 yards to the HOU39 (JOHNSON, J.).

Quick swing pass; good job by nickel back to defeat the receiver block.


(2nd and 8) EDWARDS, P. rush reverse for loss of 9 yards to the HOU30 (LAW, Cordarro;POPE, Terrance).

S Miss defense is playing very fast but very discipline; they don't forget back side containment and they read plays very well.

Coogs were missing blocks all over the place.


(3rd and 17) KEENUM, Case rush QK for no gain to the HOU30
I just found out that I forgot to note this play.

On third and 17, must be that Keenum was running for his life.


LEONE, Richie punt 21 yards to the HOU46, downed.

76Texan
02-08-2012, 03:51 AM
(4th and 6) HRAPMANN, Danny field goal attempt from 38 MISSED - wide left, spot at HOU21, clock 08:04.

S. Miss missed a FG

Possession Clock Ball On
5 FGA 08:04 21


1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 08:04.

(1st and 10) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for 8 yards to the HOU29 (COTTON, J.).


(2nd and 2) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for 11 yards to the HOU40, 1ST DOWN HOU (COTTON, J.;McCULLUM, D.).


(1st and 10) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for 1 yard to the HOU41 (McCULLUM, D.;WILSON, Khalid).


(2nd and 9) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for 5 yards to the HOU46 (THORNTON, R.;JOHNSON, J.), PENALTY USM personal foul 15 yards to the USM39, 1ST DOWN HOU.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case crossing pass complete to SIMS, Charles for 3 yards to the USM36.

S Miss played 3-5-3 defense, giving up nothing deep.
Keenum waited and waited before he hit the 4th read.
The RB slipped (he could have gained at least 3 more yards.)
I didn't note how long it took Keenum to get to his fourth read;
I will take a closer look, but I'm quite positive that it didn't take long.
I did make a few notes on other occasions.


(2nd and 7) SIMS, Charles rush draw play for 1 yard to the USM35 (THORNTON, R.).


(3rd and 6) KEENUM, Case crossing pass incomplete to JOHNSON, Justin, dropped pass (COTTON, J.).

S Miss brought 6 to the line and rushed 5
They tripled teamed WR Edwards.
RB stayed back to block.
Keenum looked left (Edwards), looked right (both receivers covered), and went back to the middle quickly to Johnson who dropped the ball.
This would have been enough for a FG attempt.



(4th and 6) KEENUM, Case deep in pass incomplete to EDWARDS, P..

Cover 2 with RCB played off the LOS in 1/4 with the safety.
Edwards was in between sitting in the zone or going deep (to burn the safety).
Keenum couldn't wait due to pressure and didn't want to throw the ball ahead of the receiver as not to subject him to a big hit by the safety.
Ball was slightly behind Edwards.
It would have been more than enough for a first down.

76Texan
02-08-2012, 04:00 AM
(4th and 2) BOEHME, Peter punt 50 yards to the HOU7, out-of-bounds.

Possession Clock Ball On
7 PUNT 04:20 7

(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 04:20.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case slant pass incomplete to CARRIER, Tyron (PRESLEY, K.).

With the ball at the 7, Cougars went with a quick pass looking to gain some yards.
Against a zone, Keenum found Carrier in front of the underneath zone on a pass that would have gained 4 if only Carrier hadn't bobbled the ball and then got hit by the RCB who reacted well. Ball was right on the money and on time.


(2nd and 10) KEENUM, Case deep in pass complete to EDWARDS, P. for 13 yards to the HOU20, 1ST DOWN HOU (PRESLEY, K.).

Against a 3-6-2 defense, Keenum looked right then went back to the left and found Edwards quickly in the zone for 13.
The safety reacted very well to get off the RB #5 (who ran a side line route) and limited Edwards to a 13 yd gain.


(1st and 10) SIMS, Charles rush right for loss of 3 yards to the HOU17 (LAW, Cordarro).
Poor blockings.


(2nd and 13) KEENUM, Case deep pass incomplete to CARRIER, Tyron, dropped pass.

Against a 4-5-2 defense, from his 17, Keenum laid a perfect pass right into the basket of the receiver who promptly dropped the ball at the S Miss 44.
(Carrier is the all-time reception leader at UH and in the CUSA, not Edwards.)

That was a clear TD if it ever was.

Keenum had looked right, up the middle to hold off the off-side safety, stepped up the pocket to keep away from the egde rush, held off just enough for the on side safety to bit on Edwards before delivering the strike.

He was hit by the RDE just after he released the ball. Only a quick delivery helped him get the ball off.


(3rd and 13) KEENUM, Case SIR pass incomplete to PEACE, Dewayne, QB hurry by THORNTON, Khyri.

Pressure by the RDE, the LDT and the LDE forced Keenum out of the pocket toward the side line and to throw the ball away.

He expected his receiver to come back toward the side line to help him, but the guy was still busy running his route.
It was 3rd and 13, the receiver #3 ran 12 yards past the first down marker without ever looking back.
He was wide open, too; the safety had stayed deep.


(4th and 13) LEONE, Richie punt 20 yards to the HOU37, out-of-bounds.

76Texan
02-08-2012, 04:09 AM
With S. Miss facing 3rd and 10 at the HTN 14, the Coogs safety #41 missed a tackle that would have kept the receiver short of the first down and limit the opponent to a FG try.

S Miss scored the TD to lead 7-0


(1st and 0) HRAPMANN, Danny kickoff 70 yards to the HOU0, touchback.

Possession Clock Ball On
9 KO 01:09 20

(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 01:09 at their 20


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case deep out pass complete to JOHNSON, Justin for 17 yards to the HOU37, 1ST DOWN HOU (PRESLEY, K.).

Keenum looked left to hold both the CB and the safety and went back to the crosser coming from the other side for 17.

Case rolled left to buy time, one of the many things he's adept at.


(1st and 10) HAYES, Michael rush over right tackle for 3 yards to the HOU40.


(2nd and 7) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to HAYES, Michael for loss of 6 yards to the HOU34 (COLLINS, Jamie).

Keenum looked left to set up the screen to the right to the RB Hayes.
(Similar to Newton, Keenum is also very good at this - not telegraphing the screen pass.)
Hayes caught the ball but slipped and fell down.
Poor blocking allowed the defender to make the tackle for a 6 yards loss.
Good read and react by the LB.



(3rd and 13) Start of 2nd quarter, clock 15:00.


(3rd and 13) KEENUM, Case sacked for loss of 17 yards to the HOU17 (COLLINS, Jamie).

Pocket collapsed quickly.


(4th and 30) LEONE, Richie punt 42 yards to the USM41, LAMPLEY, Tracy return 8 yards to the USM49, out-of-bounds (JOHNSON, Justin), PENALTY HOU personal foul 15 yards to the HOU36, 1st and 10, USM ball on HOU36.

76Texan
02-08-2012, 04:20 AM
A 15 yd penalty after the PUNT gave the ball to S Miss at the Hou 36
They scored on 3 plays to lead 14-0
One subperb low catch and a botched assignment in coverage.
...


So far Keenum stats line shows 6/12 and a meager 29 yards thanks to all the drop balls.

(1st and 0) HRAPMANN, Danny kickoff 51 yards to the HOU19, JOHNSON, Justin return 16 yards to the HOU35 (McCULLUM, D.;SMITH, Alex).

Possession Clock Ball On
11 KO 13:08 35


(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 13:08 at the 35


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case middle pass complete to WILLIAMS, R. for 3 yards to the HOU38.

5-man blitz and a quick pass; receiver slipped after catching the ball (another 2-3 yards possibility.)


(2nd and 7) SIMS, Charles rush up middle for no gain to the HOU38 (THORNTON, R.;SMITH, Michael).
S Miss won big at the line.


(3rd and 7) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to SIMS, Charles for 31 yards to the USM31, 1ST DOWN HOU, out-of-bounds (COLLINS, Jamie).

Keenum looked right, left, middle before went back to the left for the wide-open RB (all 5 reads).
Ball left his hand in about 2-1/2 secs
He made all 5 reads and holding off 2 deep coverage including the LBs, not showing exactly where he might go with the ball.


(1st and 10) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for no gain to the USM31 (THORNTON, R.;COLLINS, Jamie).

(2nd and 10) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to SIMS, Charles for 7 yards to the USM24 (PRESLEY, K.).
Screen pass to the RB all the way.


(3rd and 3) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for 2 yards to the USM22 (THORNTON, R.;WILSON, Khalid)
.
(4th and 1) Timeout Houston, clock 10:13.

(4th and 1) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for 2 yards to the USM20, 1ST DOWN HOU (GREEN, Tim;COTTON, J.).

(1st and 10) PENALTY HOU false start 5 yards to the USM25.


(1st and 15) KEENUM, Case deep out pass complete to JOHNSON, Justin for 6 yards to the USM19.

Quick decision to get back some yards after the false start penalty.


(2nd and 9) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to HAYES, Michael for 9 yards to the USM10, 1ST DOWN HOU (PRESLEY, K.).

Quick swing pass to the RB to get the first down.

S Miss played a lot of cover 2, cover 4, sometimes rushed only 3.
Their game plan was to take away the deep throw (especially to Edwards), forcing the QB to be patient.
The running game should have better due to this, but S. Miss were winning at the line more often than not.


(1st and 0) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for 1 yard to the USM9 (THORNTON, R.;COLLINS, Jamie).


(2nd and 0) KEENUM, Case crossing pass complete to JOHNSON, Justin for 9 yards to the USM0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 07:48.

S Miss played 4 deep; Keenum saw that the safety took a step back and quickly fired the ball to the right slot receiver who beat the LB before the safety came back. TD.
Keenum usually can see a lot of things on the field.
His pre-snap and post-snap reads are very good.


(1st and 0) HOGAN, Matt kick attempt good.

76Texan
02-08-2012, 04:28 AM
(4th and 10) HRAPMANN, Danny punt 41 yards to the HOU39, fair catch by EDWARDS, P..

Possession Clock Ball On
13 PUNT 07:27 39

(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 07:27 at the 37


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case slant pass complete to EDWARDS, P. for 2 yards to the HOU41 (POPE, Terrance).

Keenum looked right and then to the middle to set up a receiver screen to Edwards on the left.
Still, the 43 NT did a great job reading the Center and defeat his seal block to come back and make the tackle.
Edwards had a very good chance to get a first down there.


(2nd and 8) KEENUM, Case middle pass complete to JOHNSON, Justin for 6 yards to the HOU47 (THORNTON, R.;PRESLEY, K.).

Keenum saw the confusion in the defense at the line and called for a quick snap.
Seeing a 5-man blitz, he went quickly with a slant in (to the vacant middle) for 6.
Keenum has good awareness, and he will take advantage of lapses in the defense.


(3rd and 2) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for 2 yards to the HOU49, 1ST DOWN HOU (POPE, Terrance).


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case post pass complete to JOHNSON, Justin for 50 yards to the USM1, 1ST DOWN HOU (COTTON, J.;WHEATON, M.).

A great ball fake by Keenum to the RB drew 6 defenders to the line.
Knowing that Edwards was double-teamed (as he was the whole game - even triple-teamed at times), Keenum striked quickly to one of the slot receivers before the on-side safety can react (as he was also occupied by another vertical.) Keenum can read coverage well to take advantage.
50 yards catch and run all the way to the one.


(1st and 0) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for 1 yard to the USM0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 05:47.

(1st and 0) HOGAN, Matt kick attempt good.

Score tied 14 all.

76Texan
02-08-2012, 04:33 AM
A miss tackle by the Coogs LCB and poor angle by the safety gave S. Miss an easy 69yd TD

S Miss led 21-14

(1st and 0) HRAPMANN, Danny kickoff 39 yards to the HOU31, LEWIS, Jeffery return 3 yards to the HOU34 (BECTON-MARTIN,T;HOWZE, Alan).

Possession Clock Ball On
15 KO 04:16 34


(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 04:16.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case OT pass incomplete to CARRIER, Tyron.

Both edge rushers beat the two OTs quickly; Keenum had to step up the pocket and had no time to wait.
(There were only 4 rushers and 7 in coverage.)

The DE was right behind Keenum just after he released the ball.
Carrier was open at the 46 for a first down but the catchable ball went right through his hand.
(Catchable ball called by the announcer.)
Carrier could have gained at least another 5 YAC as well.


(2nd and 10) KEENUM, Case rush QK for 9 yards to the HOU43 (JONES, Deddrick;THORNTON, R.).

Keenum saw that the swing pass was taken away as well as the short pass so he took off and ran for 9-1/2 to make it 3rd and a short 1.

(3rd and 1) HAYES, Michael rush up middle for no gain to the HOU43 (SNOWDEN, Jeremy;COLLINS, Jamie).

Coogs went with the jumbo formation but failed to gain 1/2 a yard.
S Miss win at the line again, especially in crucial situation.


(4th and 1) LEONE, Richie punt 57 yards to the USM0, touchback.
...

S, Miss get the ball back at their 20 and held on to the ball for the last 2:41 mins to run out the half.

They led 21-14 at the half.

rmartin65
02-08-2012, 07:37 PM
Hey, I really like reading your breakdowns. Since you had that game out, what do you think of SoMiss OLB/DE Ronnie Thorton?

Dutchrudder
02-08-2012, 08:19 PM
Hey, I really like reading your breakdowns. Since you had that game out, what do you think of SoMiss OLB/DE Ronnie Thorton?

Another OLB/DE prospect from that team is Cordarro Law, who's probably a 4-7 round guy. He may be worth watching as well if you're going to review it for Thorton :)

76Texan
02-09-2012, 11:19 AM
Hey, I really like reading your breakdowns. Since you had that game out, what do you think of SoMiss OLB/DE Ronnie Thorton?

Another OLB/DE prospect from that team is Cordarro Law, who's probably a 4-7 round guy. He may be worth watching as well if you're going to review it for Thorton :)

These two guys played very well in this game.
Law's name was called a lot.
I've gone back and focused on them in the first half.
I will do a recap tomorrow when I have a day off.

S. Miss played a lot of 3-2-dime and 4-2-nickel.
Law was used as a 43 DE or 34 DE on either side.
His primary task is an edge rusher;
he will attack the inside from time to time;
he will also take on double teams or go on a stunt himself.

Thorton played a similar role as Cushing.
He patrols the middle of the field often.
But he will come up on blitzes or run blitzes on the edge or up the middle.

First impression is that they are both draftable.

I will recap their play in the first half and include most of their plays into the second half action.
(I've already finished with the break-downs, but I didn't focus on them.)

One thing I can tell right now is that their plays were among the main reasons (if not the very key ones) S. Miss won on defense in this game.

PS - I noticed that beerlover didn't even have Keenum in his QB list.
I found that rather odd. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

76Texan
02-10-2012, 03:55 PM
For the half, Keenum was 15-22 for 152 yards and 1 TD.

However, there was that sure drop where Keenum laid the ball in the receiver basket that should have gone for an 83 yd TD.

There were 3 other drops for at least 28 yards.

There was a hold by a safety that prevented a receiver from catching a possible 80yd TD on a catch and run or at least a very long gain.

The receivers also slipped at least 3 times (on a quick re-count) negating at least 9 YAC.

It could have been easily a half with over 300 passing yards and 2 or 3 TDs for Keenum against a good defense.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 04:00 PM
Recap for Law and Thorton.

Law played 34 DE or 43 DE; basically he lines up in the same spots.
Somewhere near the OT.

Thorton played inside LB; he normally patrols the middle field in a similar fashion to Cushing (and he can play side line to side line just the same).


Some of the notes in the first half for these two guys are as followed:

Quick swing pass. Keenum saw the LDE Law gaining on his RT;

LDE Law was on the other side and chased from the back side of the play. Good effort to make the tackle.

MLB Thorton took on the LG block very well; others in the secondary missed their gaps and tackles.

LDE Law stayed disciplined, containing the back side RB and got off to stop the play.

Thorton played his coverage correctly.

Law and Thorton kept their gap assingments (4 consecutive plays.)
For the half, both of them were doing their job.

Thorton read the play very well and shot the gap to make the tackle.

Poor blockings. LAW shut down the play.

Keenum was hit by the RDE LAW just after he released the ball. Only a quick delivery helped him get the ball off.

Pressure by the RDE Law, the LDT and the LDE forced Keenum out of the pocket toward the side line and threw the ball away.
ROLB Thorton played on the line and took on the double team LT/LG to allow Law to stunt and chased Keenum from the back side.

LDE Law won over the RT; he was also on Keenum.

MLB Thorton came in on a blitz to beat the LG and was in Keenum's grill.

MLB Thorton read the play easily and came in unblocked to stop the RB for no gain.

RDE Collins made the play. Thorton flowed well. LDE Law was actively chasing from the back side.

Screen pass to the RB all the way.
Thorton showed good awareness, reaction and a good burst.

Thorton showed discipline and was rewarded with an easy tackle.

RDE Law and LB Thorton (blowing up the LG's block) shut down the left side.

Thorton was quick to help the LCB

Thorton chased well from the back side.

Thorton unblocked, showed good hip fluidity to cut inside and take the runner down from behind (1yd gain).

Thorton read the QB and reacted quite well.

RDE Law beat the LT

Thorton read well and took away the short pass to the receiver on an inside route.

Again, Law and Thorton shut down the D right side.

Law had a combined 4 QB pressure/hurry/hit
Thorton had one and played very well both against the run and in coverage.
You can see that they had good impacts for the defense.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 04:08 PM
SECOND HALF ACTION

Possession Clock Ball On
18 PUNT 13:33 17

4th and 6) HRAPMANN, Danny punt 48 yards to the HOU17, downed.
(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 13:33 from their 17


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case deep in pass incomplete to PEACE, Dewayne (WHEATON, M.).

After the ball fake, Keenum looked left and saw that Edwards was triple-teamed temporarily.
He went to the right and saw that the RB screen was well covered and pulled the ball back.
As he stepped up the pocket to avoid the pass rush by the RDE, he delivered a low but catchable ball that could have gained 7-8 yards but Peace dropped the ball.Keenum was hit right after. QB Hurry and QB Hit.

42 LDE Law checked the receiver's reverse from the other side and did not rush.
RILB Thorton checked the RB out in the offense left flat.
He was also smart to keep an eye on Edwards early and late (this is the triple-team.)


(3rd and 3) SIMS, Charles rush over right guard for 3 yards to the HOU27, 1ST DOWN HOU (JONES, Deddrick;WILSON, Deron).

32 RDE Law stunted to inside the LG; Simms ran up the other A gap.
The only OLB played on the line.

Thorton stayed back as the lone ILB.
He couldn't commit early and was neutralized the RG releasing off the combo block.
He needed to take on the block stronger as he couldn't shred off the RG soon enough.
Simms got enough for a first down; a better play by Thorton here could have helped foil the conversion.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case post pass complete to CARRIER, Tyron for 15 yards to the HOU42, 1ST DOWN HOU (PRESLEY, K.).

Keenum found the open man in a 43 zone for 15.
The ball was out of there in a hurry.
41 RDE beat the LT to the inside, but Keenum got rid of the ball too quickly.
Thornton was the lone LB; he spied on the RB and covered the short hole.
He reacted back quickly and was near the ball in case the other defender miss the tackle.


(1st and 10) SIMS, Charles rush up middle for 1 yard to the HOU43 (THORNTON, R.;COLLINS, Jamie).

Cannot see the beginning of the play, but Law controlled his edge.
Thorton went just past the LOS and reached out to grab the RB with the help of another defender (Collins).


(2nd and 9) KEENUM, Case deep out pass incomplete to SIMS, Charles (JONES, Deddrick), QB hurry by JONES, Deddrick.

Keenum was hit as he threw the ball, causing an incompletion.
The LG was beaten quickly by a LB in a 4-man zone blitz.
Looks like Keenum saw an open man downfield, too.
QB Hit/Hurry directly caused the incompletion.
Law not in line up. Thorton dropped into coverage - NA


(3rd and 9) KEENUM, Case SIR pass incomplete to PEACE, Dewayne, QB hurry by SMITH, Michael.

Pocket collapsed with just another 4-man rush; Keenum was hit by the DT as he threw the ball.
The come back route would have gained more than enough for a first down (about 12 yards.)
S Miss win too often at the line in crucial situation.
Keenum had looked left (nothing open) before going back to the right.
Ball left his hand just a hair after 2 secs and he was hit right away.
Law not in line up. Thorton dropped in coverage and redirected the slot receiver, trailing well.
Another QB Hit/Hurry directly caused the incompletion.


(4th and 9) LEONE, Richie punt BLOCKED, recovered by USM BRADLEY, F. at HOU11 (blocked by BRADLEY, F.), BRADLEY, F. for 11 yards to the HOU0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 11:35.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 04:08 PM
S Miss blocked the punt and recovered it for a TD to lead 28-14
NOBODY blocked the edge guy, dang it!
Actually, S Miss sent the house; the Coogs let too many guys going to the second level.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 04:20 PM
Possession Clock Ball On
20 KO 11:35 38

(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 11:35.

(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case post pass complete to CARRIER, Tyron for 12 yards to the 50 yardline, 1ST DOWN HOU.

Keenum found the deepest receiver in the zone for 12.
A 3-man rush pushing the pocket.
S Miss keep bringing in fresh body trying to wear out the Cougars line.
Can't see where Law was.
LDE took on one double team for NT to stunt to the outside.
RDE took on double team LT & LG; the LG played too high and lost his balance by the push.
RDE then pushed LT dangerously close to Keenum.

Good thing the pass was gone in 1-1/2 secs.
Not quite a QB pressure, but it would have been if the QB doesn't have a quick delivery and/or couldn't make the quick decision.
Thorton stretched his zone pretty well, but Keenum's pass was just too quick and fast.
The INT possibility was there.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case post pass complete to JOHNSON, Justin for 13 yards to the USM37, 1ST DOWN HOU (PRESLEY, K.).

They continue scheming to take away Edwards.
Keenum completed a pass into a tight window to Johnson for 13.

Keenum was hit again as he release the pass (another 4 man zone blitz)

The 34 RDE put on a good club move to make the LG whiff completely.
He threw Keenum to the ground in less than 2 secs.

Keenum was still able to deliver a pin-point pass.
Announcer: Knowing he's going to get hit. Well-thrown ball into traffic .

Law was not in the line-up.

Thorton was spying on Edwards (triple-team) and reacted pretty well to stay close to the ball.
This guy looks to have smooth and flexible hip; he changes direction in coverage very well.
Hence the tight window (CB, LB, and safety).


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case rush QK for 4 yards to the USM33, out-of-bounds (WILSON, Deron).

Another 4-man zone blitz force Keenum to run (even with the RB staying back to block.)

RT handled the LDE (it wasn't Law) pretty well. Keenum saw the RB cut block the LB Thorton who blitzed off the edge.
He had a good wall in front (due to two double-teams) so he kept hop-stepping/sliding forward.
Keenum continued to look downfield but there was nothing open.

Past the 3 sec mark, Keenum knew he couldn't wait any longer so he took off and ran.
(Eyes in the back of his head; or rather QB smart.)

Thorton got up and chased after him.
Good job by the RB (who also got up) getting just a little of Thorton to slow the LB down just a hair so that Keenum can scramble out to the side line as two more defenders converged.


(2nd and 6) SIMS, Charles rush over left tackle for 2 yards to the USM31 (POPE, Terrance;THORNTON, R.).

RDE blew up the play.
Thorton did a decent job shredding the lineman's block to join in late.


(3rd and 4) KEENUM, Case SIL pass incomplete to EDWARDS, Patrick (McCULLUM, D.).

S Miss brought 7 men to the line and blitzed 5.

The ball was tipped at the LOS by McCullum as Keenum went with a quick side line throw. Incomplete pass.

RB stayed to help to block, but the whole D line was pushing the wall back with no room to step up.

Edwards ran a quick out and would have gained about 7-8 yards and a first down.


(4th and 4) KEENUM, Case crossing pass complete to JOHNSON, Justin for 16 yards to the USM15, 1ST DOWN HOU (THOMPSON, M.).

S Miss brought 7 to the line but rush only 4.
Keenum made a good read.
He looked right to lure the hole defender toward the side line and to freeze the safety temporarily, then went back to the middle (his third read) and completed a pass easily and quickly to Johnson for 16 yards, leading the receiver well.
(YAC due to QB leading the receiver toward the open field. Keenum protects his receiver from the safety.)

LDE Law took on a double team; can't see Thorton - he may not be on the field.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to EDWARDS, P. for 5 yards to the USM10 (COLLINS, Jamie).

Quick screen pass to Edwards to gain 5 yards to get Edwards involved as S Miss often play the RCB off the line in 1/4 with the safety.
They will not let him over the top.

LB Thorton reacted well and used his hands to get off one of the receiver's block to get to the receiver along the side line.
Edwards made a good move to duck under Thorton but another defender came in to clean it up.


(2nd and 5) HAYES, Michael rush over left tackle for 9 yards to the USM1, 1ST DOWN HOU (THORNTON, R.).

Hayes made three guys miss but couldn't keep his balance.
He barely escapted Thorton's tackle.
Thorton had read and flowed well to the ball.


(1st and 0) KEENUM, Case flag pass intercepted by WILSON, Deron at the USM0, WILSON, Deron return 0 yards to the USM0, touchback.

S Miss stacked the line to play the run, but the Coogs couldn't take advantage of the one-on-one in the corner.

The RCB Wilson played the back shoulder fade well and made a nice INT.

Edwards took a wide split and needed to take a harder inside stem to move the CB a little to the inside (like Wayne on Jackson), especially since he's a small receiver, the CB won't worry too much about a deep throw into the corner.

Also, Edwards turned his head too soon, IMO.
He "photographed" the route to the CB here.

(It will be interesting to rewatch how other receivers run the fade route in the redzone.
I'm making a note to myself here so I can go back and watch how the pros do it.)

The RB had missed the blitzing LB who hurried Keenum into a decision.
But then again, Keenum might have his mind made up already; this part I don't know.
Keenum's first bad pass in the game and it was costly.

.....

I did go back and check out several other fade routes;
the observations will be posted soon.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 04:49 PM
I went back and watch the pros.


In the Colts game, Reggie Wayne took an inside stem (a couple of small steps) to take the CB inside a little bit to give him more room on the side line.
He started by planting his right foot, then took two small steps - left, right - (slightly toward the inside with his body showing a dounle move) looking at Jackson all the while.

He then made the cut to the outside with two big steps - left, right, still looking at Jackson.

Only when he started to take the third step to the left - toward the side line (the fifth steps if counting from the beginning of the route) did Wayne started turning his head to look for the ball.

....

On the other hand, Edwards turned to look at the ball from the get-go.
He didn't take his stem to the inside either.
Just as I suspected.

....

In the Titans game, Donnie Avery faked an inside slant to Jason Allen before turning to the corner; something Edwards didn't do.

.....

In the Ravens game, Boldin's TD over Allen is a little different since it was from the 10.
But similarly, Boldin did take an inside stem before cutting toward the side line in the end zone.
Same concept of taking the CB to the inside to give the receiver and QB more room on the side line.

....

I have to conclude that Keenum's INT was due to Edwards' poor route running; as the following obseervations will further illustrate.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 04:52 PM
While checking on how Edwards may run the fade route on other occasions, I went back to watch another UH game - against the UCLA Bruins;

then I side-tracked and went on to watch the Bruins played the Cardinals Stanford.

When I come back to those two games, people will be surprised as to how I grade the two QB plays: Andrew Luck vs. Keenum.

...

But back to the point; Edwards does know how to change up his route running.
He did run a fade with an inside stem.
He did run another fade without looking back early at the ball.

So he does know how to run the route, but he wants to mix things up so that the opponent can't pick up a tendency when they study his game film.

On this particular play in the S. Miss game, he telegraphed the route just because he chose not to do the two things that are important for a successful fade route (stemming inside and not looking back early), and the CB took advantage of it.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 05:01 PM
Coogs get the ball back with an INT of their own.

(3rd and 9) DAVIS, Austin deep in pass intercepted by STEWARD, P. at the USM29, STEWARD, P. return 25 yards to the USM4, out-of-bounds (HOLMES, Lamar) (McGRAW, Marcus).

22 INT 07:08 4

(1st and 0) HAYES, Michael rush over right tackle for 4 yards to the USM0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 07:05.

The RT did a great job clearing LB Thorton out of the way.



(1st and 0) HOGAN, Matt kick attempt good.
Coogs drew within 7 (21-28)

76Texan
02-10-2012, 05:06 PM
With S Miss facing 3rd and 13 near midfield in their own territory, Coogs had 3 hats on the ball but failed to bring the runner down.

On 3rd and 9 at the Coogs 17, S Miss ran for the TD.

The LCB was cleared out of bound by the receiver (BAD BAD BAD) - worse than Jason Allen.
The LB was driven back badly by the slot receiver (BAD BAD BAD)
This cleared the way for a lineman to take out the safety.

Before that, the Coogs OLB S. Brown somehow went a little too far inside and lost outside containment;
he read the linemen and completely ignored both the QB and RB.

Even with that failure, the back end should have and could have stopped the runner way short of the first down.

If the CB and/or the LB had done their job a little better, either OLB Brown could have come back and make the tackle, or the safety could have done it.

The RB also made another defender miss (Nolan's bad angle.)

S Miss led 35-21 with about 3 mins left in the third.


So far Keenum is 21/33 for 220 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT.

Dropped passes, pressures, and poor route running hurt his numbers badly.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 05:09 PM
Possession Clock Ball On
24 KO 03:18 34

1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 03:18.


(1st and 10) HAYES, Michael rush draw play for 1 yard to the HOU35 (WILSON, Deron;COLLINS, Jamie).

Run away from Law; Thorton was in the area and did his job.


(2nd and 9) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to HAYES, Michael for 8 yards to the HOU43, out-of-bounds (SNOWDEN, Jeremy).

Keenum went thru all of his reads (scanning the field from left to right against a 5-2 stretch zone) before taking the check down to the open RB in the right flat (about 2-1/2 secs.)
Away from RDE Law; Thorton pursued well from his spot.



(3rd and 1) SIMS, Charles rush up middle for no gain to the HOU43 (THOMAS, O.).

S Miss got into the Coogs backfield again to foil the short third down conversion.
ILB Thorton blew up a lineman block in the backfield, helping the cause.


(4th and 1) LEONE, Richie punt 38 yards to the USM19, fair catch by LAMPLEY, Tracy.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 05:10 PM
S. Miss striked quickly ans scored in 2 plays.

(2nd and 6) DAVIS, Austin deep pass complete to LAMPLEY, Tracy for 61 yards to the HOU0, 1ST DOWN USM, TOUCHDOWN, clock 00:54.

Coogs sent a CB blitz.
LB took a peek at the QB and lost the RB out of the backfield.


42-21 S. Miss with less than 1 min to play in the third.
Trailing by 21, the way S. Miss played defense, the Coogs needed all eleven players to step up.

That didn't happen as we know it.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 05:14 PM
Possession Clock Ball On
26 KO 00:54 20

(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 00:54.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case crossing pass incomplete to CARRIER, Tyron, dropped pass.

Yet another drop pass in a 53 zone (would have gained bewtween 8 and 10)
With at least 3 of his linemen about a yard and a half from him when he threw the ball (in 1-1/2 secs), Keenum found the best target in the zone (all 5 short routes) that would gain the most yards on the play. (Law was part of the D push.)


(2nd and 10) KEENUM, Case deep in pass complete to EDWARDS, P. for 2 yards to the HOU22 (JOHNSON, J.;WILSON, Deron).

Keenum tried to wait as long as he can for the play to develop but the deep receiver fell down in a 52 zone.
He had to settle for Edwards in the flat for 2 (around the 3 sec mark as the RDE was right in his face.)

Same play called as the Coogs TD in the first half, but this time S. Miss had a better defense for it (2 deep 2 underneath - with Thorton being one of the underneath defenders. Law was not in the line-up).

The slot receiver that fell down is the same receiver who had caught the TD pass earlier.

The outside receiver, Edwards didn't run the swirl route, he squatted on the quick slant in (giving the defense time to react).


(3rd and 8) KEENUM, Case screen pass incomplete to SIMS, Charles, QB hurry by LAW, Cordarro.

S. Miss came with a 4-man rush (against 6 blockers) and were still able to spring 2 guys in the backfield chasing Keenum right off the bat.

He did his best to avoid them and just managed to wait for the RB to get out into the flat (while running for his life) to throw the ball in his direction to get rid of the ball; he threw the ball in the process of being pulled down by the jersey (otherwise it would have been intentional grounding since he was still in the tackle box.)

RDE Law came inside unblocked on a stunt (he was too quick for the LG/C).


(4th and 8) PENALTY HOU delay of game (LEONE, Richie) 5 yards to the HOU17.
(4th and 13) LEONE, Richie punt 41 yards to the USM42, out-of-bounds.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 05:27 PM
Coogs forced a fumble and recovered at their own 8, trailing by 21 with 12 mins to go.

Possession Clock Ball On
28 FUMB 12:15 8

(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 12:15.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to SIMS, Charles for 5 yards to the HOU13 (POPE, Terrance;THORNTON, R.).

With the ball at the 8, S Miss rushed only 3.

Keenum was forced into a checkdown to get 5 yards and a little more breathing room.

He saw Thorton spying on the wide-out, waiting to jump the quick out route and pulled the ball back. Keenum went to the RB in the flat instead.

Thorton was supposed to be on the RB so he came up to make the tackle.
This guy can really play smart coverage.


(2nd and 5) KEENUM, Case crossing pass incomplete to CARRIER, Tyron (SNOWDEN, Jeremy).

3 rushers with the RDE Law gaining on the LT (less than 2 secs.)
Keenum couldn't wait much longer and tried to fit the ball into a tight window in the middle.
The ball almost got through for a 12 yd gain but a defender (a nickle back or extra safety) managed to dive and put a hand on the ball to swat it away.


(3rd and 5) KEENUM, Case middle pass complete to SIMS, Charles for 8 yards to the HOU21, 1ST DOWN HOU (SNOWDEN, Jeremy).

A 4-man rush almost get to Keenum but he still managed to throw a strike to the receiver for a first down.
Keenum got hit quickly from the front just as he released the ball (by nobody else but RDE Law).


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to HAYES, Michael for 2 yards to the HOU23 (LAW, Cordarro).

Coogs set up a screen pass. The 34 LDE reacted very well (Law again, this guy is pretty quick).
He chased the RB to the sideline to make the tackle.


(2nd and 8) KEENUM, Case deep out pass incomplete to JOHNSON, Justin.
LCB played 9 yards off the LOS;

Looks like Keenum was looking for the receiver to break back a little sooner.
Johnson had gone 6 yards past the first down marker.
Ball went out of bound as the receiver came back a bit too late.
The pass was very definitive to a specific spot (plenty for a first down.)

Note: Keenum "stared" at the middle of the field but turned and fired a bullet to the side line.
This is another trait of a good QB that Keenum posesses.
He does not telegraph his throw (maybe just very rarely.)


(3rd and 8) KEENUM, Case SIR pass complete to EDWARDS, P. for 6 yards to the HOU29, out-of-bounds (WILSON, Deron).

Keenum had to avoid the edge rusher and scrambled to the right to complete the pass to Edwards on the shallow crossing route from left to right (Edwards was the most outside left receiver.)
Keenum was also trying to buy just a little time to see if anything gets open downfield, nothing.
Good job by Edwards to leap for the catch and slow down his own momentum as not to land his second foot out of bound.

The LDE (Law not in the lineup) beat the RT quickly to force Keenum out of the pocket.
The LDT chased Keenum hotly to the side line and put on a hit just as Keenum released the ball.
Thorton was one of the 2 closest defenders.




(4th and 2) Timeout Houston, clock 10:46.
(4th and 2) KEENUM, Case pass complete to JOHNSON, Justin for 6 yards to the HOU35, 1ST DOWN HOU (THORNTON, R.).

From their own 29, the Coogs decided to go for it.
Keenum reached for a low snap that almost touched the ground and quickly fired a pass to Johnson in the right flat in front of two defenders for 6 yards and the first down.
The RT was pushed almost into Keenum (and it was a very quick pass.)
There's never panicking with Keenum even in such a crucial 4th down.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case deep out pass complete to JOHNSON, Justin for 19 yards to the USM46, 1ST DOWN HOU (COTTON, J.).

Keenum scanned the field quickly for coverage and fired the pass to Johnson in front of the deep zone for 19.

He held the flat defender (making him honor the RB along the sideline) so that he has room to throw the deep out.

I know I keep repeating it, but Keenum is a very smart QB; he does all the little things very well.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case slant pass incomplete to CARRIER, Tyron.

Against a 4-man zone blitz, Keenum fired a quick pass to where the LB vacated.
Carrier couldn't pull in the low but very catchable pass (it would have gained at least 8).


(2nd and 10) KEENUM, Case crossing pass complete to COLLINS, Gino for 12 yards to the USM34, 1ST DOWN HOU (SNOWDEN, Jeremy).

Against a 5-man blitz, Keenum fired a quick pass to where the LB vacated (see the pattern?).
This time, the receiver caught it in stride as Keenum led him well toward empty space


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case SIL pass incomplete to EDWARDS, P. (COTTON, J.), PENALTY USM roughing passer (WILSON, Khalid) 15 yards to the USM19, 1ST DOWN HOU, NO PLAY.

As the RCB passed off Edwards after a little jam, Keenum almost completed a pass to him along the side line for about 17 (just before the cover 2 safety arrived) but the ball was slightly high as Keenum got hit again.

He was driven to the ground by the NT (who quickly sliced through the C & the RG like butter) just as he released the pass.
He was flagged for a 15yd roughing the passer penalty (due to Keenum's quick release.)
Here, a taller receiver would have helped.



(1nd and 10) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to SIMS, Charles for 9 yards to the USM10 (JONES, Deddrick).

Keenum faked a screen pass to the right but came back with a screen pass to the left.
After the play, the Coogs C went downfield and committed a stupid penalty, throwing a left jab at a DB.

PENALTY HOU personal foul (THOMPSON, Chris) 15 yards to the USM25 (could have been ejected from the game.)
Instead of 2nd and 1, Houston now faced with 2nd and 16.


(2nd and 16) KEENUM, Case SIL pass incomplete to EDWARDS, P. (WHEATON, M.).

In a 52 zone the RCB played very well underneath.
After a slight jam/hand check to redirect, he passed off Edwards - who was on an inside release - and trailed confidently looking into the backfield the whole time knowing that there's safety help over the top.

With the RDE pushing the LT toward him, Keenum wasn't able to step into his throw to put enough mustard into the throw. (At the same time, a blitzing LB was threatening to overpower the RB on the other side in a 4-man zone blitz.)

The CB was able to deflect the ball away.
Edwards ran a nice route, stemming inside to force the safety to honor the post/skinny post route before cutting back to the side line.
The ball was a tad short and just couldn't reach him.



(3rd and 16) KEENUM, Case post pass incomplete to CARRIER, Tyron.

The LDT would have been on top of Keenum in less than 3 secs if he had not thrown the pass.
The ball was just out of reach of the open receiver in the middle of the end zone.
That could have been a 25 yd TD on 3rd and 16.



(4th and 16) KEENUM, Case sacked for loss of 19 yards to the USM44 (LAW, Cordarro).

LT got beat straight away by the RDE Law; Keenum had no chance.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 05:32 PM
Coogs forced the Golden Eagles to punt.

Possession Clock Ball On
30 PUNT 06:46 16

Traling by 21 with less than 7 mins to play, the Coogs need a miracle against a defense that is playing well with momentum on its side.

(1st and 10) HOUSTON drive start at 06:46 at the 16


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case post pass incomplete to JOHNSON, Justin.

The slot receiver Johnson had run past the first down marker in the zone; he needed to turn to look for the ball. You know with Keenum the ball is going to get there in a hurry. Your QB doesn't want to expose you to a vicous from the coming safety. Cut your route at least a hair short and stay away from injury. The safety wasn't playing deep, you need to squat in the zone. That should have been a completion and a first down.

Ball was thrown in less than 2 secs with RDE pushing the LT toward the QB.


(2nd and 10) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to SIMS, Charles for 3 yards to the HOU19 (THORNTON, R.).

Quick pass by Keenum as the DT (totally free due to a mix up in pass protection) and the RDE not-named Law (beating the LT ) converged in a 4-man pass rush. The ball left his hand in just a very short hair after 1 (ONE) second and he still got hit right away.

Thorton did an excellent job flying to the side line from his inside hook/curl zone to make the tackle (he had to redirect a receiver first.)


(3rd and 7) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to HAYES, Michael for 2 yards to the HOU21, out-of-bounds (HESTER, Jeremy), QB hurry by McCULLUM, D..

LT was the first one to get beat right off the bat (yet again) to the inside on another 4-man rush.
RDE Law had stunted inside for the RDT to make his move.
Keenum was decked as he made the quick dump-off for 2 yards.
The ball left his hand right after the 2 sec mark with the RDE in his grill as Keenum was put onto his back again.
This is getting worse than ridiculous.


(4th and 5) KEENUM, Case post pass incomplete to JOHNSON, Justin (SNOWDEN, Jeremy), QB hurry by COLLINS, Jamie.

Keenum had to pull the ball back twice.
At the 3 sec mark, he knew he had to get out of dodge (even with just a 4-man rush).

He scrambled up and out of the pocket with the NT and the LDE chasing after him (they would put him down again); and just before he reached the LOS, he tried valiantly to throw a pass that would have been enough for a first down if not for a defender (LB) stretching and reaching out to swat the ball away.
The LDE was grabbing at Keenum's legs and the NT was wrapping him up at the waist as he was in the process of throwing the ball. They were hanging onto him as he threw it.

Before that, in the pocket, Keenum had looked right, nothing open right off the bat;
back to the middle to hold both safeties;
he looked left, nothing open either;
back to the middle, saw something there, get set, now saw the RDE Law (who has stunted inside) ready to put his hand up, pulled the ball back.
double team came on the RDE Law;
Keenum looked right, saw something, step into his throw, RDE Law got past the double team;
Keenum pulled the ball back again and he knew he had to disappear as the pocket collapse.

When a defense can put pressure on a QB with a mix of 3 and 4 man rush in 3 secs or less so constantly, it's just impossible.

76Texan
02-10-2012, 05:45 PM
The Coogs intercepted the ball to give the offense another chance (for misery) with just over 3 mins to go.

Two more plays to showcase Law and Thorton.

....

(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case screen pass complete to HAYES, Michael for 12 yards to the HOU17, 1ST DOWN HOU (LAW, Cordarro;WHEATON, M.).

Screen pass.
RDE Law read the play very well and chased the ball accross the field.
This guy is still running like a wild horse at the late stage of the game; pretty impressive.

It was a 12 yd play for the Coogs, but Law shows his stamina and effort.


..

(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case post pass intercepted by THORNTON, R. at the HOU26, THORNTON, R. return 26 yards to the HOU0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 02:41.

Keenum was decked by the RDE (Law not in the lineup) as he threw the pass (the LT got beat, what else is new.)

One of the LBs made a good athletic move while getting back into coverage.
He leaped to grab the ball in the air just ahead of the receiver in front of the deep hole.
He ran it back for a TD for good measure.

Well, his name is THORTON.

He was supposed to play man coverage on a RB, but he was so stupid he got off his man and cut off the slot receiver route to get the INT.

Besides the DE Law, this guy was also very impressive in this game;
he played aggressive and he played smart.

Where to grade them in the draft, I don't know yet because I haven't watched any other S. Miss game this year.

The Coogs O-line played poorly in this game.
But they also were not known to be great to begin with.

My initial thought is to give Law a second round grade (he's a so-called "tweener"); at worst a third round grade.

Thorton looked more impressive to me than Sharpton in college, at least with his performance in this game.
So for now, a third-fourth round grade for him.
If he tests well on the 3-cone and the shuffle (flexibility), I think his stock will rise.

rmartin65
02-10-2012, 05:47 PM
Thanks man, it was pretty cool to get your thoughts on those two guys. Do you, by any chance, have more So Miss games?

76Texan
02-10-2012, 06:43 PM
Thanks man, it was pretty cool to get your thoughts on those two guys. Do you, by any chance, have more So Miss games?

I'm glad that you and some others like it.

Unfortunately, the only other So Miss game I have for this year is the Bowl game against Nevada.

I do have some game from last year:
The bowl game against Louisville, and games against Tulsa and UH (without Keenum).

76Texan
02-14-2012, 01:10 PM
I've said in another thread that the Cougars offense is very similar to what Baylor, Okl. St. (and other schools) run.

Here's straight from the horse (Keenum) mouth:
http://www.foxsportshouston.com/01/25/12/Case-Keenum-preparing-for-the-draft/landing_uh.html?blockID=652970

Q - You know what's coming in terms of the critique of all his gaudy passing numbers, right?

A - "I'm kind of over the system quarterback label," said Keenum, who is preparing for the NFL draft at Danny Arnold's Plex complex in Stafford. "I've heard that for quite a while now. You don't see people labeling Robert Griffin a system quarterback and he played in the same system I did. Brandon Weeden (Oklahoma St.) is in the exact same system. If you want to call me a system quarterback and a system quarterback means doing really well in the offense you're in then I'll be a system quarterback. I'll be in whatever system you want to put me in. It's whatever it takes to win."

I also compare Keenum with Brees.
Here's a piece regarding the Boilemakers' spread offense:

"I can remember NFL critics saying the same thing when Drew was a senior," Tiller said Thursday. "'He's in that Purdue offense all the time. He lines up in the shotgun all the time, and our guys line up under center.'
"It's not like college football has a monopoly on the shotgun formation. Now that I'm out of coaching, I've watched more NFL football this year than I have the last 10 years combined. There's hardly any team in the league that doesn't have their quarterback in the shotgun anymore -- including [Ben] Roethlisberger, JaMarcus Russell. Not small guys. The entire league is doing what Drew Brees was criticized for coming out of college."


Read more:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/stewart_mandel/01/29/tebow-tiller/index.html#ixzz1mNgHdrwI

76Texan
02-14-2012, 01:49 PM
Thanks man, it was pretty cool to get your thoughts on those two guys. Do you, by any chance, have more So Miss games?

I'm glad that you and some others like it.

Unfortunately, the only other So Miss game I have for this year is the Bowl game against Nevada.

I do have some game from last year:
The bowl game against Louisville, and games against Tulsa and UH (without Keenum).

I've watched all of those games now.
I also watched the Shrine game (Thornton) and the All-Star game (Law).

Law is very good (he got high praises from the coaches from the practices - and he played well in the game.)

Thorton started the Shrine game and played as well as any LB out there (none of them stood out.)
His practices were neither great nor bad.

I'm comfortable to say that Law will play on Sunday; he will be in the rotation )probably sooner since every team needs a pass rusher).
I've read that at least 4 teams (3-4 Defense) had talked to him, including the Pats and the Cowboys.
In an interview, Law said that scouts had told him he'd go anywhere between third and UDFA (why such a wide range? LOL!)

Personally, I think he's at least a 4th rounder.
More likely though, I think he will be drafted either in the second or third round due to the premium teams put on pass rushers.

The highest I've seen Thorton rated is 6th round (there might be somebody else who ranks him higher, I'm just not aware of it.)
I need to see how he performs on his pro-day (I don't think he's invited to the combine and I don't know if they will release results from the regional combines to the public or not.)

I need to verify his quickness, short burst, and flexibility with all those tests and drills.
Thornton doesn't have the elite speed to play Cushing's role but he can play Demeco's (a 3-4 MO).
I don't know if he'd ever be a starter without knowing more about him.

He has good size. If I have it correctly, he checked in at 6'2-247.
His Jr Pro-day shows a 4.75 forty (which is average.)
He takes on linemen's block pretty well (maybe not quite as well as Sharpton); he probably needs to use his hands better (Sharpton has the advantage of playing low due to his lack of height but has quickess and uses his hands well.)

Both shows good awareness and an understanding of offensive schemes; both read plays pretty well.

I'm inclined to say that Thorton in the 6th is great value.
But then again, like I said, I'd like to see how he performs in those drills and tests.
He could move up if he tests well.

Dutchrudder
02-14-2012, 01:58 PM
Cool, thanks for the analysis 76! I like Law, and I think he may be undervalued a bit due to being in the CUSA. Seems like a good mid-round guy for a team in need of pass rush. Do you see him has more of a 3-4 OLB or could he also be a 4-3 OLB?

76Texan
02-16-2012, 02:23 PM
Cool, thanks for the analysis 76! I like Law, and I think he may be undervalued a bit due to being in the CUSA. Seems like a good mid-round guy for a team in need of pass rush. Do you see him has more of a 3-4 OLB or could he also be a 4-3 OLB?

Actually, Law has been playing at 43 DE and 34 DE.

It's a million-dollar question whether he can play as an OLB (whether in a 34 or 43).

He looks like a natural knee-bender, which is good.
He can run the arc and has a good spin move; I think he can adapt to OLB.
He's surprisingly strong at the POA (for a "tweener").

I don't know if those 34 teams are looking at him for the DE position or at OLB.
We'll find out more at the combine.

76Texan
02-16-2012, 02:35 PM
Food for thoughts while comparing the QBs (Keenum, RG III, and Luck):

1. I went back and check all the opponents these guys face.
The Cougars faced better defenses than the Bears (arguably), but especially the Cardinals.
The Big 12 are not all that great in pass defense; and the Pac 12 are pretty bad.
The defenses that the Cougars faced played against a combined schedules of good offenses (including many in the Big 12 as well as in the CUSA).

2. Luck, especially, had a pretty clean pocket to work with. His jersey remained quite clean in the 3 games I've watched so far.

3. The Cardinals run a West Coast offense (power blocking, not ZBS).
It's still a QB-friendly system due to the PA.

4. A month or two ago, I had mentioned that in a game against Oregon in 2007 (Dixon and Stewart), Keenum was under center 21 times as opposed to 31 times in the shotgun (he shared time with another QB - Blake Joseph.) No bad snap or any mishap. Keenum was a RS Fr at the time and he played very well for that early stage in his career. The Cougars were under Art Briles at the time.

5. Baylor didn't have Griffin under Center that much. Art Briles went more with the spread now.
There is hardly any difference between the Coogs passing game and the Bears'.

76Texan
02-19-2012, 03:13 PM
Hey, how do I modify the thread title, anybody knows (it's been a very long time since I've done it.)

I want to change the title to a more generic Film Study on Case Keenum.
And I will want to compare him with other QBs, most notably Luck and RGIII.

I'm in the process of watching more of these QBs.

OK, let's see now.
In the Bowl game against Penn St., Keenum faced some form of pressure/hurry 27 times.
For the year, Penn St. ranked 20 in pass defense and 6th in efficiency defending the pass.
(Their ranking was pulled down due to the game against Keenum.)
And look at the results Keenum posted (he almost broke Ty Detmer's all-time bowl records for number of completions and total yards; his yard-per-attempt was better than Detmer's.)
There were several drop passes (I didn't count, but at least 4 of them).

On the other hand, Luck only went thru 3 similar situations against the Fighting Irish if Notre Dame (through 3 quarters - I haven't watched the 4th quarter yet.)

To me, a QB has about 2-3/4 of a sec to complete the pass or try to make something out of it, or get ready to throw the ball away.

When a QB has that much time or more, I don't consider him as being under pressure.

This is the general difference between Keenum and Luck.
For the entire year, Keenum was under pressure way more often than Luck (and RG III).
He just made it look easy so often that people tend to forget about it.

Also, people keep thinking that the Cougars faced bad defenses.
That is not the case.
At the time Stanford was 8-0, the computer had them as the one undefeated team that had the worst strength of schedule (by a good margin).

That should further indicate how much better Keenum was performing as opposed to Luck.

76Texan
02-19-2012, 03:57 PM
One way to compare these guys is to watch them in the shotgun.

In general (on intermediate routes or shorter, let's say 12 yards or less), my estimation is that when Keenum put the ball into the receiver's hand (on the same route), the ball has yet to leave Luck's hand.

Keenum gets the ball out of there at least 15% quicker than Luck.

He (Keenum) would have faced even more pressure if he didn't.

Obviously, Keenum had two years more experience than Luck (one as a medical-exempt plus another one as Luck will come out "early").
Keenum is one year and some 7 months older than Luck.

Luck can always improve in this area (as well as others that he will need to), but that is "potential" (not a sure thing) that he will be able to improve enough to catch up with Keenum in the mental part of the game.

Take Luck's physical attributes to add to Keenum's football prowess and one will get a HOF QB that can be called the best of all time (I'm not kidding at all.)

76Texan
02-19-2012, 04:16 PM
http://houston.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2F redirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2F d0%2Fd0%2FdZ%2FdS%2Fd2%2Fd4%2FZS24_3.MP3&podcast_name=Case+Keenum&podcast_artist=MaD+Radio&station_id=63&audio_link=true&config_file=config.xml&dcid=CBS.HOUSTON

Listen to this radio interview.

31 other teams will regret it... I like that confidence.

76Texan
02-19-2012, 05:10 PM
When I start looking at an NFL QB prospect, my bible is Bill Walsh's instruction starter list:

http://www.sportsxchange.com/ds97/walsh/walsh2qb.htm

The only thing Keenum doesn't have is the size; however, as I've noted, he has a tad more size than Brees.

I will go down the list and give examples.

...
Good passing has to do with accuracy, timing, and throwing a ball with touch so it is catchable. This all involves understanding a system, the receivers in the system, and having great anticipation. It is a plus to be able to throw a ball on a line for 35 yards, but not if it is off target or arrives in such a way that it is difficult to catch.

Remember, the goal of passing a ball is to make sure it is caught ... by your intended receiver.
...

An example of great anticipation is when a QB throws the ball before the receiver even turns his head.
As soon as the receiver does, the ball is right there for him to catch.
That's Keenum.

He wil also lead his receivers (almost always) away from harm.
Luck didn't, and he put one of his main targets (Owusu) out of commission (after a few too many concussions) for a few games.
Keenum does not subject his receivers to such punishments; he tried very hard not to. He's very smart.

Depending on the situation, he can throw the ball on a line or with touch (on the same route). He works to make the receiver's job as easy as possible.

thunderkyss
02-19-2012, 05:27 PM
A - "I'm kind of over the system quarterback label," said Keenum, who is preparing for the NFL draft at Danny Arnold's Plex complex in Stafford. "I've heard that for quite a while now. You don't see people labeling Robert Griffin a system quarterback and he played in the same system I did. Brandon Weeden (Oklahoma St.) is in the exact same system. If you want to call me a system quarterback and a system quarterback means doing really well in the offense you're in then I'll be a system quarterback. I'll be in whatever system you want to put me in. It's whatever it takes to win."[/I]

A system QB is a product of the system.

No one will ever call Griffin a "system" QB, because he didn't just throw the ball where the "scheme" said it should be, or run where the hole should have been.

Things aren't always going to go as planned. At those times, the man holding the ball has to make a decision, quick, & execute.

I haven't watched Keenum play very much, so I don't know if he's a system QB or not. But if that is the label he is getting, then it's because they don't believe he brought anything special to the system.

I also compare Keenum with Brees.
Here's a piece regarding the Boilemakers' spread offense:

Brees was a second round pick. He got to the NFL & made the best of his situation.... & he's been anything but a system QB in the NFL. He's a dynamo, a dynamic player, one that makes things happen.

76Texan
02-19-2012, 05:30 PM
A quick delivery , one that is not telegraphed to help the defense, gives the quarterback an advantage when he finds his intended target. That's when it is essential to get the ball "up and gone'' with no wasted motion. Some of this can be acquired by learning proper technique. But to a certain degree, a quick release is related to a quarterback's reaction time between spotting his receiver and getting the ball "up and gone.''

....

Not only that, Keenum is a chess master who play cat and mouse with defenses.

He would set up a slant/crossing route (for a long gain) by showing the defense a deliberate swing pass on a couple of plays.
Down the stretch, however, he will fake the swing pass, drawing a couple of defenders to the line... and boom, the ball is gone as he quickly changes his direction and fires the ball to a different receiver upfield for a long gain (or TD.)

I also see a great sleight of hand, like the following play:
Keenum faked the ball to the running back (after switching the ball to his left hand), faked a swing pass into the right flat with his right arm in full throwing motion. The ball, however, was handed to a slot receiver who ran a reverse.

The most important thing with Keenum is the defense cannot read his eyes (including the D-linemen). He will vary his look; one one play he will "stare" down a receiver; on the next, he will look right but throw left.
(You can't look one way and throw the other all the time, the Defense will know the tendency.)
Keenum veries his look well enough to keep the defense guessing.

Keenum will step into his throw toward the side line, but then fire the ball deep into the corner of the end zone.

Another difference between Keenum and Luck (when they are both in the shotgun), you can see that when he doesn't play those cat and mouse game with the D, Keenum will keep his eyes straight down the middle (as needed, depending on how the deep secondary is set up).
He makes the job of the safeties more difficult; something Luck needs to learn to get better at.

In man coverage, Keenum will throw when the DB turn his head (and therefore can't see where the ball is going).
If the DB steps up, he will throw long; if the DB retreats (giving cushion) he will throw short underneath.

All this and more.
Keenum simply has a great football IQ, I'm not being a homer.
I've never said these things with Kolb.

76Texan
02-19-2012, 05:51 PM
The ability to read defenses is not something that players have learned to a high degree coming out of college. Even if they have, the pro defenses are very different. But most systems require quarterbacks to look at primary and secondary receivers, usually based on the defense that confronts him. You can see if he locates that secondary receiver -- or maybe even an emergency outlet receiver -- with ease or with a sense of urgency.

This should work like a natural progression, not a situation where it's -- "Oh, my gosh, now I must look over here ... no, over there.'' You can see which quarterbacks handle these situations with grace. These are the types who have a chance to perform with consistency in the NFL.

...

I've said several times that Keenum is very good at both pre-snap and post-snapd read.

He understands where pressure might be coming from.
He can see how defense disguises and adjust accordingly.

He goes through his reads if needed (5 when there are 5; sometimes a receiver may be purely blocking and not running route) quicker than either Luck or RG III.

Trust me, I play each snap in super slo-mo (and pause or replay when needed) to check the defense pre-snap and post-snap.
I check to see what the offense tries to do and what the defense tries to do.
I watched the QB's head and/or eyes throughout the play; how different defenders react to that; how a lineman was or wast not able to get a hand on the ball at the LOS ... all the little things.

76Texan
02-19-2012, 05:57 PM
The single trait that separates great quarterbacks from good quarterbacks is the ability to make the great, spontaneous decision, especially at a crucial time. The clock is running down and your team is five points behind. The play that was called has broken down and 22 players are moving in almost unpredictable directions all over the field.

This is where the great quarterback uses his experience, vision, mobility and what we will call spontaneous genius. He makes something good happen. This, of course, is what we saw in Joe Montana when he pulled out those dramatic victories for Notre Dame.
...

This is Keenum right there.

He knows quickly when the play breaks down and he never panics.
In his head, he still knows which route his receivers are running.
He will try to escape in such a way that may give him the best chance at throwing the ball to his receiver.

He understands down and distance.

The guy is really, really poised and smart.

Dutchrudder
02-20-2012, 11:34 AM
Actually, Law has been playing at 43 DE and 34 DE.

It's a million-dollar question whether he can play as an OLB (whether in a 34 or 43).

He looks like a natural knee-bender, which is good.
He can run the arc and has a good spin move; I think he can adapt to OLB.
He's surprisingly strong at the POA (for a "tweener").

I don't know if those 34 teams are looking at him for the DE position or at OLB.
We'll find out more at the combine.

According to So. Miss's site, he's 6-2' and 261 pounds. Kinda small for a 3-4 DE, but good size for an OLB. Might have to slim down a bit, but I would think that's a more natural fit for him. He seems quick enough on film to rush the QB consistently.

76Texan
02-22-2012, 10:04 AM
According to So. Miss's site, he's 6-2' and 261 pounds. Kinda small for a 3-4 DE, but good size for an OLB. Might have to slim down a bit, but I would think that's a more natural fit for him. He seems quick enough on film to rush the QB consistently.

He checked in around that same listing for the All Star week.
I agree that he should be able to play at OLB, but you never know what them coaches think. Who knows, some might want him to add a few pounds to play 34 DE.

76Texan
02-22-2012, 10:34 AM
At any rate, I've now reviewed plenty of Keenum's games, ten from Luck, and six from Griffin (I will watch more).

By reviewing, I mean "really scrutinizing" it.

- I watch each play a few times (more when needed) in normal speed, in frame by frame mode, in super slow motion, etc.
- I checked to see what kind of pressure the QB was under (if any).
How long did he have in the pocket. How did he react to those situations.
- I looked at all the different receivers on the field (when possible); how one gets open. Sometimes a receiver gets open due to fact that coverage was fooled by the offensive play called; sometimes it was due to a good move by the receiver; and sometimes it was due to a good fake by the QB.
- I checked to see how long from the time the ball was snapped until the time the ball left the QB's hand (noting whether it was a short, intermediate, or deep route) and at what time did the ball get into the receiver's hand.
- I checked to see where the ball placement was; is it on the correct side such that coverage has less chance to fet to the ball; is it in a place where the receiver can catch it "in stride" or in good position to gain YAC.
- I noted situations where a faster NFL defensive player can get to the play sooner.
- And on and on.

Keenum was pressured the most (and by a wide margin over Luck), percentage-wise and also the overall number of times he had control of the ball.
Let's say Keenum was under pressure about 1/3 rd of the time (33%)
In a game, he may be involved in 70 snaps (whether it was a pass attempt, or a situation where he ran with the ball due to pressure), he then would be pressured 23 times.
Let's say Luck was involved in 40 snaps and he was pressured 8 times (that would be 20% of the time)
And let's say RG II was under pressure 25% of the time.

As Keenum saw the most snaps per game, he was also under pressure many more times. The more a QB is chased after, got hit, etc., he's supposed to be prone for more mistake.

It wasn't the case for Keenum:
His gaudy numbers was simply great plays by a great QB.
If you put him on the Baylor Bears team, he would improve the numbers from what RG III achieved.

With that summary, I think I should conclude this thread and move on to a different position, like WR.

76Texan
02-27-2012, 05:37 PM
I wished I didn't have to drag up this thread again, but it is what it is, so here goes... more film study from Keenum against Tulsa (in which I mostly concentrated on the 13 incompletions) and a few notes from the Rice game.

1st Qtr

(2nd and 6) KEENUM, Case pass incomplete to SIMS, Charles.
LDE Walker beat RT to the inside right off the bat.
Keenum hurried a throw that went off the fingertips of the RB Sims (lining up in the left slot) on a quick slant (Sims tried to beg for a PI as the LB seemed to have grab his arm before the ball arrived - I didn't bother to zoom in to look at it more closely,)

(3rd and 6) KEENUM, Case pass incomplete (WALKER,T.).
This time, Walker lined up as a 34 RDE and beat the LT quickly off the edge.
He pulled Keenum down by the shoulder pad just as Case threw the ball, causing it to fall onto the ground.
Edwards was open for at least a 13yd gain.

(4th and 6) LEONE, Richie punt 25 yards to the TLS24, downed.

...

Cougs scored on their next drive.
Keenum was 9-11 so far, with the only two "misses" due to pressure mentioned above.
There was one pass attempt over 15 yard to Edward.

Keenum went 13-15 for 132 yards and a TD against the wind.
The Coogs were driving close to midfield as the first qtr expired.

76Texan
02-27-2012, 05:40 PM
2nd Qtr

(3rd and 5) KEENUM, Case pass incomplete to SMITH, E.J..
Tulsa sent a blitz.
The safety valve across the middle was cut off by a LB while a DT was jumping up getting ready to attempt to bat down the pass.
Keenum rolled to his right and thew an incompletion with a LB in his grill.
This incompletion (the third of the game for Keenum) was also due to pressure.
Punt.
....

Coogs failed to convert on 3rd and one with a running play from their 44
There was a 15yd pass to Carrier (no YAC)
Punt

....
20 yd TD pass to Sims out of the backfield on a post route.
Keenum looked left, stepped left but threw right (fooling the safety and the LB both).
...

The Coogs recovered a Tulsa fumble with 47 secs left in the half.

From his own 10 (Ace formation - 3 RBs in the backfield),
Keenum quickly identified the open RB out of the backfield on a wheel route to the side line.

The ball was just long as 2 linemen were boring down on top of him and Keenum had to hurry the 33 yd pass attempt (his 4th incompletion.)
This is equivalent to a deep out (arm strength without being able to step into his throw due to pressure coming from the front side.)

18-22 192 yds 2 TDs for the half
13-15 132 yds and a TD against the wind
5-7 60 yds and a TD with the wind.

All 4 completions were due to pressure.
Pressures prevented three (3) third down conversions, the running game failed on the fourth one.
The Coogs went 11-42 on the ground (not counting the sack nor the 3 yd gain by a RB to run out the half.)

The wind had nothing to do with Keenum's performance.

76Texan
02-27-2012, 05:45 PM
3rd Qtr


(2nd and 6) KEENUM, Case pass incomplete to SMITH, E.J. (WALKER,T.).
The RDT pushed the double-team &LG back to jump up and bat down the pass (unacceptable from a double-team),
Also, the LDE put the RT on the ground and was on top of Keenum just as he released the ball (about 2-1/2 sec),
Keenum was waiting for the slot receiver to get past the LB and settle in the zone, but he was still under the 2-3/4 sec limit.


(1st and 10) KEENUM, Case pass incomplete to EDWARDS, P. (NELSON,M.).
RDT & RDE both beat their man and was on top of Keenum quickly.
Before he was put on the ground, Keenum fired an accurate pass 21 yard down the side line, over the top of the CB. The cover 2 safety made a good play to come over and prevented Edwards from hanging on to the ball.
A big receiver like AJ here would definitely help.


(2nd and 10) KEENUM, Case pass incomplete to JOHNSON, Justin.
Keenum tried a timing pass to the slot receiver on a quick slant before both safeties converged.
The receiver was brushed slightly (legally) by a hole defender, throwing him off the timing between receiver and QB.


(3rd and 10) KEENUM, Case pass incomplete to EDWARDS, P.
Keenum threw a perfect 13-yd pass on a fade route along the left side line.
There was a lot of holding/hand fighting going on between the receiver and the DB; Edward couldn't get off the DB to turn around soon enough (DB had his head turned and had no idea where the ball was.)


(4th and 10) KEENUM, Case pass complete to EDWARDS, P. for 33 yards to the TLS0, 1ST DOWN HOU, TOUCHDOWN, clock 12:08.
Keenum surveyed the field and fired a pass into the perfect soft spot in the 5-2 zone (between the 2-deep safeties and the 2 underneath defender) for a nice catch and run TD (20 YAC).


....
So far, have you seen a purely bad incompletion by Keenum?
I don't.
....


(3rd and 8) KEENUM, Case pass incomplete to HAYES, Michael.

The DB simply grabbed Edwards by the neck and held him some 12 yards downfield on the left.
As both receivers on that side were "covered", Keenum rolled to the right and fired a pass that the receiver dropped (ball was about knee-high but very catchable).

Keenum was decked as soon as he threw the ball.
He might do a little better stepping up the pocket here, but it wasn't a poor play by him under the cirscumstances.

The third read in the middle of the field was sandwiched in between the hole defender and the curl defender (and the referee obscuring the front of the passing lane.)

(There was a possibility that he can go long to the receiver down the right side line; otherwise he can check the ball down to the RB like he did. These two guys were the 4th and 5th read. Stepping up the pocket may or may not be the best decision here.)

Even if we (you) want to put this one on Keenum (for not stepping up the pocket), the wind had nothing to do with it; in fact, the wind has had nothing to do with anything so far.

(4th and 8) LEONE, Richie punt 22 yards to the 50 yardline, out-of-bounds.
...


(2nd and 4) KEENUM, Case pass incomplete to CARRIER, Tyron.
11yd pass attempt into the open spot in the zone; receiver dropped the ball.


(2nd and 11) KEENUM, Case pass incomplete (ROBINSON,R.).
Keenum wanted a shot in the intermediate zone; he was waiting for the Hi-Lo pattern to develop.
He was about to step up and throw but the RB failed to pick up the blitz. The blitzer came right up the gut and blew the RB into Keenum.
Keenum had to escape and threw the ball away as the LDE arrived to put him on the ground.

3 hurries - 7 knockdowns - 2 sacks so far for Tulsa (per the TV display.
27-38 -291 yds for Keenum so far.


On 4th and 1, Tulsa played zero coverage to stack the box trying to stop the run.
Keenum quickly found Edwards from the slot on a corner route for 38 and a TD (33 yd pass, 5 YAC).

This is another deep-out type of pass (the equivalence of some 40-yd plus straight downfield);
a nice pass with good touch gave the receiver plenty of time to adjust to the ball.
He could have driven the pass harder, but that would make for an unecessary straight line pass that is harder to catch on the run.
And there's no need to lob the pass too high too far into the endzone either.
This is a much easier pass to catch (into the basket, with the receiver in stride on a 5-yd trot into the end zone.)

PapaL
02-27-2012, 05:47 PM
I give you an A for effort. He could definitely use you as a agent/hype man.

76Texan
02-27-2012, 05:47 PM
Keenum was 28-39 for 329 yards and 4 TD to end the third qtr

He was 18-22 for 192 yds and 2 TDs at the half
13-15 132 yds and a TD against the wind (first qtr)
5-7 60 yds and a TD with the wind (2nd qtr)

10-17-137 yds and 2 TDs against the wind (third qtr)

The seven incompletions were due to pressure, dropped passes and one nice play by a safety,
...


4th qtr

Keenum was 5-7-128 yds with a TD
The TD was a 46-yd pass (plus 5 YAC for a total of 51 yards) on a 5-step drop from the shotgun with the LDE ready to pound on him from the side (right at the 3 sec mark.)

From the corner of his eye, Keenum can see the LDE coming (to the inside of the RT) but he stood tall and delivered the pass.

....

With the wind, Keenum attempted 14 passes, completed 10 (71.43%) for 188 yards and 2 TDs

Against the wind, Keenum attempted 32 passes, completed 23 (71.88%) for 269 yards and 3 TDs

The Coogs certainly didn't have any reservation about putting the ball in the air against the wind.
Where the ball went was dictated by the opportunity presented.

76Texan
02-27-2012, 05:52 PM
At the end of the day, in normal condition, the farthest I've seen Schaub thrown the ball is 47 yards straight down the middle of the field (from the LOS).
I've seen Keenum went for 50 yards.
(And I have reviewed all of Schaub's throws while I haven't reviewed all of Keenum's throw; ie. he may have one longer than that.)
You take that radius and project it to any throw outside the numbers, using simple trigonometry.


One of Keenum's TD pass to Edward in the Rice game (a skinny post route) was with Edward catching the pass some 41 yards from the LOS and ran another 23 yards for the TD.
This projected to some 48 yards straight down the middle.

And Keenum didn't even step into his throw.
He took a 3-step drop from the shotgun, hopped twice in roughly the same spot such that when he delivered the ball, he was about 10 yards behind the LOS.

This is equivalent to a 7-step drop from under Center.
However, when Schaub took such a 7-step drop, he normally stepped up a few yards (3-4 yards with a left-right-left) before he delivered the throw.


However, when Schaub took such a 7-step drop, he normally stepped up a few yards (3-4 yards with a left-right-left) before he delivered the throw.

Keenum, on the other hand, hop-stepped in pretty much the same position where he dropped back to, and took only one slight step with the left foot forward to deliver the ball.
And he still threw the ball one yard further (from the LOS) than Schaub ever did.

If you count from the spot Keenum's front foot was, he actually threw the ball 4-5 yards longer than Schaub ever did without needing the momentum of the forward motion.
His arm is stronger than Schaub.


(At the moment, there was no rain drop and there wasn't any sign of a breeze from the palm trees in the corner of one end zone. A few minutes later, there was a very slight breeze showing, but nothing to suggest any adverse condition.)

It was then that Keenum connected with Edwards outside the numbers again (at roughly the same distance, without needing to step into his throw either.)

This clearly demonstrates his arm strength.
And we can end all the discussion about his lack of arm strength that would hinder his effectiveness outside the numbers right here because it is simply ridiculous.

No, he doesn't have a gun; but he does have better arm strength than Schaub.

76Texan
03-23-2012, 02:12 PM
Case Keenum Pro Day:

http://blog.chron.com/cougars/2012/03/quick-notes-from-houstons-pro-day/

... there were as many as 32 scouts there representing at least 21 teams (including the Texans who might have been out there to see Edwards).

...

Houston quarterback Case Keenum revealed that he suffered a strained hamstring on his second attempt at the 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine last month in Indianapolis. He said he didnít want to make excuses, which is why he decided to still throw, but it clearly affected him.

...

On Monday, he didnít show any issues throwing. He threw the ball with good velocity, particularly on the out routes, and he showed the ability to get it downfield. I had one scout tell me that he felt Keenum had ďabove averageĒ arm strength.

...

Keenum did the 20-yard short shuttle in 4.31 seconds, the three-cone drill in 6.89 seconds and bench-pressed 225 pounds 18 times.

..

The SS and the 3-cone times are better than many receivers and DBs at the combine or their respective pro day.
This (besides the game tapes) shows that Keenum has mobility.

76Texan
04-05-2012, 02:51 PM
Check out the game vs UTEP in 2010.
This was the game in which Keenum got hurt in the third quarter and was out for the season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y2bd6NEiJI

On the first play, Keenum was in play-action pass out of a ZBS run fake.
He hop-stepped forward to ease away from the pressure and completed the pass for a TD.

On the second play, Keenum was under center again.
This time, he handed the ball off to the RB on an inside ZBS run.

Fastforward to the 1:00 mark in the vid and you will find the "statue of liberty" play. Keenum switched the ball to his left hand; faked a swing pass with his right hand, and handed the ball off with his left to the receiver on a reverse.

On the next play, Keenum took the ball from under center and handed off to the RB for another TD.

Two plays later, you can see Keenum under center again.
He handed off the ball to the RB for yet another TD.
This time, you can clearly see the cut back from a ZBS by the RB.

Those who think that Keenum is just a shotgun spread QB cannot be any more mistaken.

During the regular season, I've already mentioned how Keenum was under center 14 times (in 27 snaps or so) against Oregon in 2007 as a rookie, splitting time with another QB (Blake Joseph).

If anything, Luck out of Stanford, doesn't know anything about the ZBS.
Even though they run a WCO, Stanford employed straight man blocking.

G27RR
04-11-2012, 08:00 AM
Why Keenum over any of the many other guys who would be available at 26?

GP
04-11-2012, 09:26 AM
Why Keenum over any of the many other guys who would be available at 26?

Just saying that IF they are really spooked about the QB situation...it could be tempting to lock up another QB right away, especially if several other top guys (at other positions they're targeting) are gone.

It hasn't been done by Kubiak. It's not his style. But sometimes patterns get broken. Do I think it will happen? Around a 5% chance. But I won't be surprised if it does.

We're thin at QB and have no money to spend on a veteran free agent.

GP
04-11-2012, 12:02 PM
I get what you're saying about why they might pick a QB, but I don't think they would pick Keenum unless it was in the second half of the draft.

They might think he's not available. I don't think he'll be available after Round 2.

Dutchrudder
04-11-2012, 02:11 PM
They might think he's not available. I don't think he'll be available after Round 2.

I would gladly bet against that happening. I have a hard time seeing Keenum getting drafted before the 5th. He didn't impress at the combine with his throwing, and he doesn't display the arm strength needed at the next level. Very Colt McCoy-ish IMO.

GP
04-11-2012, 04:24 PM
I would gladly bet against that happening. I have a hard time seeing Keenum getting drafted before the 5th. He didn't impress at the combine with his throwing, and he doesn't display the arm strength needed at the next level. Very Colt McCoy-ish IMO.

TJ Yates didn't even get invited to the combine last year. Kubiak still took him, though.

Keenum has football smarts, just like Yates does. And Keenum's Cougars, IIRC, got all the way up to like No. 3 in the nation last year. From what I saw, he was a large part of their success. Put him on a stronger team with better cast of players and he will be OK.

I personally don't think he's better than around 4th round, 5th at the latest. But I think some team will jump the gun on him "just because." Happens all the time: i.e. Kevin Kolb.

76Texan
04-11-2012, 04:49 PM
TJ Yates didn't even get invited to the combine last year. Kubiak still took him, though.

Keenum has football smarts, just like Yates does. And Keenum's Cougars, IIRC, got all the way up to like No. 3 in the nation last year. From what I saw, he was a large part of their success. Put him on a stronger team with better cast of players and he will be OK.

I personally don't think he's better than around 4th round, 5th at the latest. But I think some team will jump the gun on him "just because." Happens all the time: i.e. Kevin Kolb.

Keenum and Kolb are two totally different animals.

Keenum regularly gets the ball out of his hands at the 1-1/2 to 2 second mark.
Kolb (as Weeden) helds the ball too long (past the 3 second mark) with regularity.

Keenum has more smart than Yates; and he played much better than Yates under pressure. In fact, he and Wilson (Wisconsin) were two QBs that performed the best under pressure last year in the NCAA.

badboy
04-11-2012, 05:00 PM
I would gladly bet against that happening. I have a hard time seeing Keenum getting drafted before the 5th. He didn't impress at the combine with his throwing, and he doesn't display the arm strength needed at the next level. Very Colt McCoy-ish IMO.What round was McCoy drafted in?

Dutchrudder
04-11-2012, 05:24 PM
What round was McCoy drafted in?

Late 3rd, which was obviously too high for him. But he came from a big school and had much more national notoriety than Keenum does. I think Keenum will get drafted, I just don't think it will happen until the 5th round.

Rey
04-11-2012, 09:14 PM
Late 3rd, which was obviously too high for him. But he came from a big school and had much more national notoriety than Keenum does. I think Keenum will get drafted, I just don't think it will happen until the 5th round.

I think Keenum could go undrafted.

badboy
04-11-2012, 10:25 PM
Late 3rd, which was obviously too high for him. But he came from a big school and had much more national notoriety than Keenum does. I think Keenum will get drafted, I just don't think it will happen until the 5th round.agree

Lucky
04-11-2012, 11:59 PM
Keenum and Kolb are two totally different animals.
I wouldn't say totally different. They played in similar offenses. They are both underrated as athletes. Kolb has the bigger arm. Keenum is the better decision maker. But let's be honest: If both were coming out of this draft, Kolb would go higher. Because of his size and arm advantage.

76Texan
04-19-2012, 01:37 PM
I wouldn't say totally different. They played in similar offenses. They are both underrated as athletes. Kolb has the bigger arm. Keenum is the better decision maker. But let's be honest: If both were coming out of this draft, Kolb would go higher. Because of his size and arm advantage.

Size, yes.
Arm, I don't know.

I went back and watched all the games Kolb played in last year for the Cards and the deepest I saw him throw was 47 yards from the LOS (straight down hill shot) with the QB some 8 yards behind the LOS.

I've seen Keenum throw 50 yards a couple of time and several more in the 47 plus range.

Remember that I had noted Schaub's range is also 47 yards, while T.J. Yates is 50.

Rey
04-19-2012, 02:45 PM
I don't understand the knocks on Keenum's arm strength...

His arm is stronger than Schaubs...He throws a tight spiral and gets plenty of zip on his passes...

speedfreek
04-20-2012, 11:23 PM
Here's the data on draftee's ball speed:

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2012/03/12/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

Keenum definitely has a stronger than average arm..

The Texans receivers were talking about how Yates threw the ball with more zip than Schaub.. we'll compare keenum's numbers to Yates..

TJ

Lucky
04-21-2012, 07:59 AM
Here's the data on draftee's ball speed:

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2012/03/12/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

Keenum definitely has a stronger than average arm..

The Texans receivers were talking about how Yates threw the ball with more zip than Schaub.. we'll compare keenum's numbers to Yates..

TJ
I have to question the numbers that suggest Flacco has an average arm (55 mph). Flacco has one of the strongest arms in the league. It had Colt McCoy at 56 mph. Looking at both, who has the stronger arm? It's not even close.

76Texan
04-24-2012, 11:53 AM
I find it interesting that there are plenty of bloggers and posters from other teams wanting to draft Keenum. A quick glance shows the Colts, Falcons, Chiefs, Dolphins, Bengals, Eagles, Cowboys, Redskins, etc. with grades given as a 4th rounder or later.

He was "picked" before the Gruden's QB Camp session was aired so these preferences weren't influenced by Jon G.

The main qualities listed were smart and accuracy.
There were some concerns about his arm strength at the next level (not valid as we know it).

The highest I've seen Keenum projected is in the third round by a "New Jersey born, now living in California" columnist who listed the Niners and Raiders as his favorite football teams:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1017157-2012-nfl-draft-projections-first-5-qbs-who-will-be-selected
He rated Keenum as the #5 QB prospect.

The Texans might decide to draft another QB, but I sure hope they take Keenum.

http://www.khou.com/sports/Keenum-on-NFL-Draft-Im-open-to-go-wherever-148178625.html

by KHOU 11 Sports staff
khou.com
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 5:25 PM

HOUSTON Ė Former University of Houston quarterback Case Keenum took some time on Thursday morning to talk to KHOU 11 Sports reporter Matt Musil about the upcoming NFL Draft.
In the full interview, which you can see above, Keenum talks about which city he would prefer to play in. His answer was funny and one that most UH fans hope comes true.
"Itís looking pretty attractive now to stay in the city of Houston maybe we can just move from Scott street over to Kirby," said Keenum.

76Texan
04-24-2012, 11:58 AM
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1179936.html

College Football Network projects Keenum as an UDFA with these comments:

1. QB Case Keenum, Houston 6-1, 208
There arenít any NFL skills to get excited about with no size, a mediocre arm, and not athleticism. However, heís the great statistical passer in NCAA history thanks to a deadly accurate arm and a smart mind that makes every right decision. There might not be a better quarterback in the draft at hitting his guys on the move, and he almost never, ever makes mistakes even though heís a fearless bomber. The mechanics are great and he gets the ball out of his hands in a hiccup, but he spent his career working in the spread and has to prove he can work under center. With a smallish body, concussion issues, and rebuilt knees heís not going to iccup, but he spent his career working in the spread and has to prove he can work under center. With a smallish body, concussion issues, and rebuilt knees heís not going to hold up heíll never be a top starter, but he can work for a long time as a good backup.

Rey
04-24-2012, 12:00 PM
I think you copied and pasted that wrong or maybe the writer made an error.

76Texan
04-24-2012, 12:18 PM
This is the highest I've seen Keenum rated so far (late 2nd,early third - #6 QB overall):

http://www.gridironstuds.com/blog/gridironstuds-com-2012-nfl-draft-qb-ratings/

6 Case Keenum Houston Late 2 Ė Top 3 Hard to ignore the length and depth of production

Whoa! Ryan Tannehill 12th? Russell Wilson 4th? Ryan Lindley 8th? Caught your eye didnít it?

76Texan
04-24-2012, 12:20 PM
I think you copied and pasted that wrong or maybe the writer made an error.

I know, you think Keenum could go undrafted! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Rey
04-24-2012, 12:21 PM
I know, you think Keenum could go undrafted! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif


????????????????????????????????????????


Ummm...Yeah I do, but that's not what I meant.

Re-read what you pasted. There is an error in there.

76Texan
04-24-2012, 12:35 PM
????????????????????????????????????????


Ummm...Yeah I do, but that's not what I meant.

Re-read what you pasted. There is an error in there.

Why don't you just come out and say what you want to say instead of going round and round?

76Texan
04-24-2012, 12:40 PM
Here's something I caught from "Inthebullseye.com"; this post was from 2009:

http://inthebullseye.com/forums/showthread.php?t=811

Last weekend I watch the UH vs. Tulane game as I have been fortunate enough to watch all but the UTEP game thi fall. The announcers were not our regular announcers and they absolutely gushed over Case Keenum. They were sure he had the quickest release since Dan Marino, his arm was a cannon, he had high accuracy and he was very cool under fire. Oh, and I believe they thought he had the 'IT' factor of very good professional quarterbacks.

Rey
04-24-2012, 12:40 PM
Why don't you just come out and say what you want to say instead of going round and round?


?????????????????


http://cfn.scout.com/2/1179936.html

College Football Network projects Keenum as an UDFA with these comments:

1. QB Case Keenum, Houston 6-1, 208
There arenít any NFL skills to get excited about with no size, a mediocre arm, and not athleticism. However, heís the great statistical passer in NCAA history thanks to a deadly accurate arm and a smart mind that makes every right decision. There might not be a better quarterback in the draft at hitting his guys on the move, and he almost never, ever makes mistakes even though heís a fearless bomber. The mechanics are great and he gets the ball out of his hands in a hiccup, but he spent his career working in the spread and has to prove he can work under center. With a smallish body, concussion issues, and rebuilt knees heís not going to iccup, but he spent his career working in the spread and has to prove he can work under center. With a smallish body, concussion issues, and rebuilt knees heís not going to hold up heíll never be a top starter, but he can work for a long time as a good backup.


I thought I was being pretty clear...

The information you copied and pasted has an error in it. What is so hard to understand about that?

Do I really have to go back and highlight the exact part?

76Texan
04-24-2012, 12:45 PM
?????????????????





I thought I was being pretty clear...

The information you copied and pasted has an error in it. What is so hard to understand about that?

Do I really have to go back and highlight the exact part?

You're talking about the part where they didn't know that Keenum has had experience under Center?

Rey
04-24-2012, 12:57 PM
You're talking about the part where they didn't know that Keenum has had experience under Center?

I didn't expect all of this...It's turned into this big crucial thing and I was just trying to point it out to you...Maybe I wasn't being clear in hindsight...

One of the sentences is cut off and it starts again. It's a typographical error, not an error with the actual information.

Hope that clears it up.

76Texan
04-24-2012, 01:27 PM
I didn't expect all of this...It's turned into this big crucial thing and I was just trying to point it out to you...Maybe I wasn't being clear in hindsight...

One of the sentences is cut off and it starts again. It's a typographical error, not an error with the actual information.

Hope that clears it up.

Thanks, the website somehow was difficult to copy in one shot (or maybe it was just the problem that I've been having with Vista and Google Chrome on this PC lately) that led to the problem.