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El Tejano
02-03-2012, 11:49 AM
Watched the AFC Wild Card game vs. The Bengals and noticed that Jacoby did that catch on the bounce and get hit return of his. We've all noticed that he's done that in the past. This brought me to looking at the coaching.

Our return game hasn't been so special. Much of it could be attributed to the new kickoff rules and our defense not really giving up alot of points but our punt return game hasn't been the best either and we usually see our gunners getting burned.

Then we look at our FG kicker and missed FGs. Our cover unit is okay but not spectacular.

Is it time to start looking for Joe's replacement? Remember what upgrading a coach on one of the 3 phases of the game did for us this past year.

ThaShark316
02-03-2012, 12:12 PM
Watched the AFC Wild Card game vs. The Bengals and noticed that Jacoby did that catch on the bounce and get hit return of his. We've all noticed that he's done that in the past. This brought me to looking at the coaching.

Our return game hasn't been so special. Much of it could be attributed to the new kickoff rules and our defense not really giving up alot of points but our punt return game hasn't been the best either and we usually see our gunners getting burned.

Then we look at our FG kicker and missed FGs. Our cover unit is okay but not spectacular.

Is it time to start looking for Joe's replacement? Remember what upgrading a coach on one of the 3 phases of the game did for us this past year.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5719/xzbitlol.png

Outside of a luck KR return by the Ravens where 9 people missed tackles, who gets big returns vs. our ST? You can only tell a player so much before he takes it upon himself and does dumb ****.

Allstar
02-03-2012, 12:21 PM
Our coverage teams are excellent and Jacoby occasionally has big returns (although half of them get negated by a block in the back). Our special teams are just fine, and if you have to make a move, make it the returner,not the coach.

ThaShark316
02-03-2012, 12:27 PM
Our coverage teams are excellent and Jacoby occasionally has big returns (although half of them get negated by a block in the back). Our special teams are just fine, and if you have to make a move, make it the returner,not the coach.

Exactly. http://static.bbmp3.com/smilies/agreement1.gif

El Tejano
02-03-2012, 12:31 PM
Our coverage teams are excellent and Jacoby occasionally has big returns (although half of them get negated by a block in the back). Our special teams are just fine, and if you have to make a move, make it the returner,not the coach.

I agree with that. Does anyone know where we've finished compared to the league in special teams categories. I just think that Marciano didn't emphasize ball security to a player who is habitually catching a ball on the bounce on a punt return with a player that close to him.

beerlover
02-03-2012, 12:45 PM
I agree with that. Does anyone know where we've finished compared to the league in special teams categories. I just think that Marciano didn't emphasize ball security to a player who is habitually catching a ball on the bounce on a punt return with a player that close to him.

Marciano didn't drop those balls or make questionable decisions on the field. He lacked options, options that will be addressed this off season. :kubepalm:

steelbtexan
02-03-2012, 12:48 PM
When they changed the wedge rules the ST's suffered a significant dropoff.

Jacoby was coach Joes handpicked guy.

For that reason Coach Joes gotta go.

Rey
02-03-2012, 12:49 PM
Lots of players do that....

I had mentioned this before that Jacoby had done the exact same thing the past week and no one complained about it because he didn't muff the punt...

He muffed one all year and he picked a terrible point to do it.

cbs1507
02-03-2012, 12:54 PM
When they changed the wedge rules the ST's suffered a significant dropoff.

Jacoby was coach Joes handpicked guy.

For that reason Coach Joes gotta go.

I don't see your line of reasoning. Jacoby Jones was 3rd in punt retrun yards. He had 0 fumbles up until Baltimore and he had not fumbled in 44 consecutive games prior going back to early 2009 season. Like someone said earlier, nobody gets many return yards against us in ST's. So that does not seem like reasonable grounds to cut Marciano. Especially when all this was accomplished because "When they changed the wedge rules the ST's suffered a significant dropoff." :fingergun:

El Tejano
02-03-2012, 12:57 PM
I don't see your line of reasoning. Jacoby Jones was 3rd in punt retrun yards. Had 0 fumbles until Baltimore and he had not fumbled in 44 consecutive games prior going back to early 2009 season. That does not seem like reasonable grounds to cut Marciano. Especially when all this was accomplished "When they changed the wedge rules the ST's suffered a significant dropoff." :fingergun:

Go look at the season and see how many times we returned a kick to the 20 vs. other teams returning it on us. I doubt you will see us getting past the 20 very many times. Now to be fair Daniel Manning did well when he had his chances.

I'm not saying I want the dude gone. I was simply asking if it is time to look around for an upgrade there. I was asking for opinions instead of saying he's gotta go.

steelbtexan
02-03-2012, 01:00 PM
I don't see your line of reasoning. Jacoby Jones was 3rd in punt retrun yards. Had 0 fumbles (until Baltimore) and had not fumbled in 44 consecutive games going back to early 2009 season. That does not seem like reasonable grounds to cut Marciano. Especially when all this was accomplish "When they changed the wedge rules the ST's suffered a significant dropoff." :fingergun:

You're talking fumbles lost. I'm talking fumbles.

Are you saying the Texans are better on ST's since the 3/4 man wedge was outlawed by King Rodger.

The Texans are middle of the pack on ST's and that's not good enough to win a SB. IMHO

This doesn't even take into account the 2009 K.Brown fiasco/ Jacksonville fake punt fiasco under coach Joes tuteledge. (SP?)

Ole Miss Texan
02-03-2012, 01:05 PM
Joe ain't going anywhere.

Keep in mind as starters get injured, "his" special teams guy get pushed up the depth chart and many a time he has to use other players.

cbs1507
02-03-2012, 01:14 PM
Go look at the season and see how many times we returned a kick to the 20 vs. other teams returning it on us. I doubt you will see us getting past the 20 very many times. Now to be fair Daniel Manning did well when he had his chances.

I'm not saying I want the dude gone. I was simply asking if it is time to look around for an upgrade there. I was asking for opinions instead of saying he's gotta go.

How about we go to the numbers instead of speaking out of our asses sir...

Texans Kick Returns 7th (25.2)
Opponents Kick Returns 7th (22.4)

I still do not believe you provided sufficient claims for firing the guy. He's been here since day 1, so he must be doing something right.

cbs1507
02-03-2012, 01:22 PM
You're talking fumbles lost. I'm talking fumbles.

Are you saying the Texans are better on ST's since the 3/4 man wedge was outlawed by King Rodger.

The Texans are middle of the pack on ST's and that's not good enough to win a SB. IMHO

This doesn't even take into account the 2009 K.Brown fiasco/ Jacksonville fake punt fiasco under coach Joes tuteledge. (SP?)

No I am talking about fumbles AKA putting the ball on the ground. He hasn't put the ball on the gorund this season prior to Baltimore and he hasn't done it since 2009 for 44 consecutive games. If we're talking "fumbles lost" then he only lost 3 fumbles out of 9 in his entire 5 year career. So please stop speaking out of your ass because you hate the guy. I actually look up stats before I post.

No I am not saying we are better on ST. The wedge made it harder. I was just pointing out that we still were 3rd in punt return yards despite the rule change.

As for middle of the pack ST. I say NO and YES. We are better in Kick Return than Punt Return. KR we are 7th in YPG and 7th against our opponents. PR we are 15th in YPG and 15th against opponents.

Maddict5
02-03-2012, 01:33 PM
......and we've officially hit the offseason

eriadoc
02-03-2012, 01:47 PM
The final 8 weeks of the season had 8 kicks called back due to block in the back penalties. That's to say nothing of the random holding calls or such that happen. EIGHT in EIGHT weeks. That's a trend.

ObsiWan
02-03-2012, 01:50 PM
Our coverage teams are excellent and Jacoby occasionally has big returns (although half of them get negated by a block in the back). Our special teams are just fine, and if you have to make a move, make it the returner,not the coach.

ummm... isn't that reflective of suspect coaching?

TejasTom
02-03-2012, 01:54 PM
...Are you saying the Texans are better on ST's since the 3/4 man wedge was outlawed by King Rodger.

The Texans are middle of the pack on ST's and that's not good enough to win a SB. IMHO...

We are better in returns than both teams in the SB.


How about we go to the numbers instead of speaking out of our asses sir...

Texans Kick Returns 7th (25.2)
Opponents Kick Returns 7th (22.4)

I still do not believe you provided sufficient claims for firing the guy. He's been here since day 1, so he must be doing something right.

We have improved this year in most categories.

NFL Ranking Regular Season Comparison


2010 -> 2011 Pats Giants
Kicking 26th -> 7th 6th 11th
Punting 26th -> 20th 10th 13th
FG/PAT 5th -> 15th 12th 23rd
Returns 27th -> 7th 29th 21st

cbs1507
02-03-2012, 01:56 PM
ummm... isn't that reflective of suspect coaching?

Maybe...

...but I don't think a coach tells players to block in the back or to commit a penalty. I'm almost certain they would always say the opposite.

Of course, usually when you tell someone (especially young person like ST's players are) not to do something they usually do it anyways. i.E. Jacoby Jones fielding punts this season off the bounce, eventually caught up with him. You have to keep in mind that ST's is composed up of the best players, just some exceptional athletes that aren't good enough to get into the rotation. Most of these guys just want to make that "big block" or "big play" to get in good graces with coaches and hopefully get some playing time.

ObsiWan
02-03-2012, 01:59 PM
Maybe...

...but I don't think a coach tells players to block in the back. Usually when you tell someone (especially young person like ST's players are) not to do something they usually do it anyways. i.E. Jacoby Jones fielding punts this season off the bounce, eventually caught up with him. You have to keep in mind that ST's is composed up of the best players, just some exceptional athletes that aren't good enough to get into the rotation.

Of course the coaches don't tell the players to do that dumb stuff...
Perhaps if there were serious repercussions when that stuff happens.
:bat:
...fines?
...extra push-ups?
...withholding of sprinkles? (okay, let's not get TOO crazy :D )

....man, it's gonna be a looooonng off-season.
:kubepalm:

Big Lou
02-03-2012, 02:45 PM
I hear the 49er's are cutting a Punt Returner. Oh wait nevermind......

eriadoc
02-03-2012, 03:06 PM
I hear the 49er's are cutting a Punt Returner. Oh wait nevermind......

See, the major problem with that comparison is that the 49ers didn't have their punt returner and therefore had to rely on a guy who had a week's worth of practice. He made a mistake and they lost. The Texans did have their punt returner of FIVE SEASONS and therefore lost.

If the 49ers want to let Ted Ginn hit free agency, I'd be more than happy to grab him. THAT's their punt returner.

ThaShark316
02-03-2012, 03:15 PM
See, the major problem with that comparison is that the 49ers didn't have their punt returner and therefore had to rely on a guy who had a week's worth of practice. He made a mistake and they lost. The Texans did have their punt returner of FIVE SEASONS and therefore lost.

If the 49ers want to let Ted Ginn hit free agency, I'd be more than happy to grab him. THAT's their punt returner.

Yep. If Ginn is there, Niners win that game.

SheTexan
02-03-2012, 05:55 PM
Honest question guys!

WHY has Joe M not moved up in the ranks?

amazing80
02-03-2012, 06:08 PM
Honest question guys!

WHY has Joe M not moved up in the ranks?

because he coaches special teams

False Start
02-03-2012, 08:38 PM
I think we should look at getting a new equipment manager. I saw a quite a few decals coming off helmets this past season. :cutthroat:

TexanSam
02-03-2012, 09:23 PM
Honest question guys!

WHY has Joe M not moved up in the ranks?

Always wondered that too. He has a pretty good reputation (I think) and my guess is he just enjoys coaching special teams and doesn't want to coach any other position.

ObsiWan
02-03-2012, 10:40 PM
Honest question guys!

WHY has Joe M not moved up in the ranks?

Always wondered that too. He has a pretty good reputation (I think) and my guess is he just enjoys coaching special teams and doesn't want to coach any other position.

Joe M. has adopted a special needs son (autism) and that takes all his non-football time. He doesn't want to devote the time commitment required to be a head coach or even a coordinator because it would take away from caring for his son.

Link (http://www.examiner.com/single-dads-in-allentown/houston-texans-football-coach-honored-as-a-single-dad-and-autism-awareness)

He put his care of his adopted son before any football ambitions.

Thorn
02-04-2012, 12:46 AM
Just have to respect a man like that.

TejasTom
02-04-2012, 08:38 AM
Joe M. has adopted a special needs son ...

When I saw this my first thought was you were talking about Jacoby.

But, seriously, that's awesome.

El Tejano
02-04-2012, 09:23 AM
How about we go to the numbers instead of speaking out of our asses sir...

Texans Kick Returns 7th (25.2)
Opponents Kick Returns 7th (22.4)

I still do not believe you provided sufficient claims for firing the guy. He's been here since day 1, so he must be doing something right.

Calm down guy. My earlier post that started the thread clearly indicated what I noticed and ASKED the question if it is time to look for his replacement - meaning I'm not too sure and don't want to place my thougt process on just what I've noticed from a game the week before.

You know,that message boards aren't only used to state what you know as a fan but also to ask other fans who have the time and energy to look up stats for.

When I said go look at the games, I was really asking for you to look at the games because I don't have time to go back and look at them myself.

steelbtexan
02-04-2012, 09:23 AM
When I saw this my first thought was you were talking about Jacoby.

But, seriously, that's awesome.

Me too!!!!!

This explains alot about why coach Joe hasn't adjusted as well as he should have. His time is better spent elsewhere.

SheTexan
02-04-2012, 10:15 AM
Joe M. has adopted a special needs son (autism) and that takes all his non-football time. He doesn't want to devote the time commitment required to be a head coach or even a coordinator because it would take away from caring for his son.

Link (http://www.examiner.com/single-dads-in-allentown/houston-texans-football-coach-honored-as-a-single-dad-and-autism-awareness)

He put his care of his adopted son before any football ambitions.

THANK YOU so much for giving me an honest answer instead of a smarta*s one like "he coaches special teams!" ST coaches can excel in their careers the same as anyone else! Can't help but admire a man like that! He has NOT been a bad STs coach, and if we keep him around until he retires, I'm ok with that. It's not his fault JJ makes dumb decisions, or KB or NR shanks an important kick! Replace the player, not the coach.

thunderkyss
02-04-2012, 10:31 AM
Our coverage teams are excellent and Jacoby occasionally has big returns (although half of them get negated by a block in the back). Our special teams are just fine, and if you have to make a move, make it the returner,not the coach.

I wouldn't go that far. Jacoby runs sideways & backwards because the gunners generally have a free shot at him.

Jason Allen & Brice McCain need to be replaced with more physical guys, or persuaded to play more physically. They both have the speed, but refuse to "get dirty"

ArlingtonTexan
02-04-2012, 10:54 AM
THANK YOU so much for giving me an honest answer instead of a smarta*s one like "he coaches special teams!" ST coaches can excel in their careers the same as anyone else! Can't help but admire a man like that! He has NOT been a bad STs coach, and if we keep him around until he retires, I'm ok with that. It's not his fault JJ makes dumb decisions, or KB or NR shanks an important kick! Replace the player, not the coach.

you mean like this guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick#Early_coaching_positions

SheTexan
02-04-2012, 10:58 AM
you mean like this guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick#Early_coaching_positions


Wow! Didn't know that! Thanks for the link!

badboy
02-04-2012, 12:44 PM
Watched the AFC Wild Card game vs. The Bengals and noticed that Jacoby did that catch on the bounce and get hit return of his. We've all noticed that he's done that in the past. This brought me to looking at the coaching.

Our return game hasn't been so special. Much of it could be attributed to the new kickoff rules and our defense not really giving up alot of points but our punt return game hasn't been the best either and we usually see our gunners getting burned.

Then we look at our FG kicker and missed FGs. Our cover unit is okay but not spectacular.

Is it time to start looking for Joe's replacement? Remember what upgrading a coach on one of the 3 phases of the game did for us this past year.I think a thread a couple months back address this also. I think coach is still good but as Kubes noted with all the injuries, Marciano has had to make do with back up guys.
JJ just "went stupid". That is not on ST coach but on head coach if he allows it to keep occuring.

thunderkyss
02-04-2012, 12:48 PM
I think a thread a couple months back address this also. I think coach is still good but as Kubes noted with all the injuries, Marciano has had to make do with back up guys.
JJ just "went stupid". That is not on ST coach but on head coach if he allows it to keep occuring.

Two things.

We used the injury excuse for Marciano last year.

& a good coach will address mistakes even when they "work out" & try to correct them. Did not happen here. Should have, but did not.

badboy
02-04-2012, 12:59 PM
Two things.

We used the injury excuse for Marciano last year.

& a good coach will address mistakes even when they "work out" & try to correct them. Did not happen here. Should have, but did not.The injury excuse both years was justified not sure of your point? If the mistake you are refering to is JJ the only "work out" is firing him and that is on Kubes.

thunderkyss
02-04-2012, 01:14 PM
The injury excuse both years was justified not sure of your point? If the mistake you are refering to is JJ the only "work out" is firing him and that is on Kubes.

I think our defense played better in part to having better depth. That depth was also part of our special teams.

The "mistakes" I'm referring to, has more to do with the gunners running free down the field. Not excusing Jacoby from his play-off blunder, but why was there no one between Jimmy Smith & Jacoby.

badboy
02-04-2012, 01:23 PM
I think our defense played better in part to having better depth. That depth was also part of our special teams.

The "mistakes" I'm referring to, has more to do with the gunners running free down the field. Not excusing Jacoby from his play-off blunder, but why was there no one between Jimmy Smith & Jacoby.Absolutely! Should have heard me screaming "BLOCK SOMEONE DAMMIT!" That and eliminating penalties for "blocking in the back" are things Marciano can fix.

Hervoyel
02-04-2012, 01:36 PM
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5719/xzbitlol.png

Outside of a luck KR return by the Ravens where 9 people missed tackles, who gets big returns vs. our ST? You can only tell a player so much before he takes it upon himself and does dumb ****.


This. All of the weaknesses in our special teams are in areas where an individual has to come through and didn't (or at least didn't on a regular basis).

In areas where you need a bunch of players all on the same page like kickoff returns and coverage we appear to me to be very well coached.

Marciano can't coach the dumbass out of Jacoby Jones just like nobody could coach David Anderson up to a 4.2 40 time or how nobody could coach David Carr into having an internal clock or pocket awareness. Rackers is streaky and always has been. That's not special teams coaching, that's Rackers.

Nah, leave Joe Marciano right where he is. That's a part of our team that has always been consistent and mostly successful.

thunderkyss
02-04-2012, 01:53 PM
Nah, leave Joe Marciano right where he is. That's a part of our team that has always been consistent and mostly successful.

Again, I think this is very short-sighted. I love every thing Texans & will argue, most times, in favor of those Texans. But this is different.

This team is usually pretty good on penalties... false starts, holding, off-sides..... unsportman... our penalties are usually far & in between. But special teams the last two years, I would wager have been the most penalized "phase" on our team. I remember one game, we kicked to the other team & still got called for a block in the back.... how do you do that?

I'm not looking to get rid of Coach Joe, that's not my style. But to ignore a problem..... say it isn't there...


Ok, maybe I have done that before
:thinking:

badboy
02-04-2012, 03:12 PM
Again, I think this is very short-sighted. I love every thing Texans & will argue, most times, in favor of those Texans. But this is different.

This team is usually pretty good on penalties... false starts, holding, off-sides..... unsportman... our penalties are usually far & in between. But special teams the last two years, I would wager have been the most penalized "phase" on our team. I remember one game, we kicked to the other team & still got called for a block in the back.... how do you do that?

I'm not looking to get rid of Coach Joe, that's not my style. But to ignore a problem..... say it isn't there...


Ok, maybe I have done that before
:thinking:That would seem to go along with who is making the penalties & if it is 2 year+ vets you have a point. If not and it is newer guys you don't, imo.

drs23
02-04-2012, 04:37 PM
[/B]Absolutely! Should have heard me screaming "BLOCK SOMEONE DAMMIT!" That and eliminating penalties for "blocking in the back" are things Marciano can fix.

Why hasn't that been done then?

By Joe or anyone else?

This season past, seems like every punt return had that flag.

This line for 4 paragraphs. :D

ChampionTexan
02-04-2012, 05:47 PM
I haven't been a real big fan of our special teams lately either - although this year they were a bit better than 2010. Wouldn't have minded a coaching change, but I would imagine that if it was going to happen, it would've happened by now, so C'est la vie.

My position hasn't been based on penalties, although I do relate to the frustration when they occur. However, like so many other things related to being a fan, most folks (including me) are simply too close to the situation to form an accurate opinion based on simply watching games. In both # of penalties and penalty yardage, the 2011 Texans Special teams were firmly entrenched in the middle of the NFL pack. Not great by any stretch, but far from the worst. With 1 being the most (ie: worst) and 32 being the fewest, the 2011 Texans ranked 16th in number of penalties (pretty much as middle of the pack as you can get) at exactly one ST penalty per game, and 19th (just slightly better than average) in yards penalized.

LINK (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/32913/on-the-titans-special-teams)

badboy
02-04-2012, 06:08 PM
Why hasn't that been done then?

By Joe or anyone else?

This season past, seems like every punt return had that flag.

This line for 4 paragraphs. :D23 it is the most frustrating penalty for me as most of them do not seem to benefit the ball carrier in any way. The player just goes stupid.

EllisUnit
02-04-2012, 08:52 PM
You're talking fumbles lost. I'm talking fumbles.

Are you saying the Texans are better on ST's since the 3/4 man wedge was outlawed by King Rodger.

The Texans are middle of the pack on ST's and that's not good enough to win a SB. IMHO

This doesn't even take into account the 2009 K.Brown fiasco/ Jacksonville fake punt fiasco under coach Joes tuteledge. (SP?)

i'm sorry but in todays NFL ST dont win Super Bowls. Rookie QBs not throwing 3 picks and our return man not making bone headed moves helps. Now is Jacobys terrible decesion to try to field the punt Joes fault ? I dont think so. JM will be here next season, why because of one bone headed play that our PR man makes do people think its time to replace a coach.