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beerlover
02-02-2012, 11:02 AM
Without Free Agent to be Mario Williams:

First Round: Vinny Curry, OLB, Marshall, 6'3 3/8" 265

Explosive pass rusher with elite length, high ceiling, lower cost option to maintain quality 3-4 pass rushing fleet & resign other key free agents.

Second Round: Juron Criner, WR, Arizona, 6'2 1/8" 220

Experienced, NFL ready, size/speed/hands/route combination. Bright, eager teammate, rises to top of competition, ideal #2 to Andre Johnson.

Third Round: Josh Norman, CB, Coastal Carolina, 6'0" 203

First round talent vs small school competition. Ballhawk. Physical & competitive. Both long & short area recovery speed. Long arms, big hands, tremendous instincts ideal #2 CB for Texans.

Fourth Round: Isaiah Pead, RB/Returner, Cincinnati, 5'10 193

Premium return man who can also save roster spot in back-up RB duties. In the same mold as Joshua Cribbs who went undrafted, now return game is costing teams playoff games stock in reliable, playmaking returners a premium.

Fifth Round: Levy Adcock, OT, 6'5" 322

Where's the beef is here with next two picks. ZBS style OL who may compete immediately for LG duties. In time starter material immediate swing tackle.

6th Round: Akiem Hicks, NT, Regina, 6'5" 324

Disruptive, nasty-streak, unblock-able at times, will require double team next level. Adds strength to inside while Curry adds speed outside.

7th Round: David Paulson, TE, Oregon, 6'4" 250

Complete TE in Kubiak mold who is willing, effective blocker both on line & downfield, reliable hands, knack of finding seam/separate in coverage. Excellent red zone target, in Dwight Clark mold.

rmartin65
02-02-2012, 11:34 AM
Without Free Agent to be Mario Williams:

First Round: Vinny Curry, OLB, Marshall, 6'3 3/8" 265

Explosive pass rusher with elite length, high ceiling, lower cost option to maintain quality 3-4 pass rushing fleet & resign other key free agents.

Second Round: Juron Criner, WR, Arizona, 6'2 1/8" 220

Experienced, NFL ready, size/speed/hands/route combination. Bright, eager teammate, rises to top of competition, ideal #2 to Andre Johnson.

Third Round: Josh Norman, CB, Coastal Carolina, 6'0" 203

First round talent vs small school competition. Ballhawk. Physical & competitive. Both long & short area recovery speed. Long arms, big hands, tremendous instincts ideal #2 CB for Texans.

Fourth Round: Isaiah Pead, RB/Returner, Cincinnati, 5'10 193

Premium return man who can also save roster spot in back-up RB duties. In the same mold as Joshua Cribbs who went undrafted, now return game is costing teams playoff games stock in reliable, playmaking returners a premium.

Fifth Round: Levy Adcock, OT, 6'5" 322

Where's the beef is here with next two picks. ZBS style OL who may compete immediately for LG duties. In time starter material immediate swing tackle.

6th Round: Akiem Hicks, NT, Regina, 6'5" 324

Disruptive, nasty-streak, unblock-able at times, will require double team next level. Adds strength to inside while Curry adds speed outside.

7th Round: David Paulson, TE, Oregon, 6'4" 250

Complete TE in Kubiak mold who is willing, effective blocker both on line & downfield, reliable hands, knack of finding seam/separate in coverage. Excellent red zone target, in Dwight Clark mold.

Nice! Your first 3 picks are money, and the others are definitely not slouches.

1) Curry- dude has pass rush stud written all over him. Has the athleticism and the football sense to make an impact right away.

2) Criner- I have a hard time pegging Criner. I want to like him, but I think he gets overrated at times. However, the size is there, the talent is there, so if he can just stay on the field, he is worth a 2nd round pick. I would like Texans to take a chance on a big red zone target, so I like this pick a lot.

3) Norman is undoubtedly one of the biggest winners of the all star game circuit. The guy has great size and athleticism, just needs a little polishing. While corner may not be a need for the Texans any more, you dont pass on talent.

4) Pead.. I just dont like him. I like the idea of a backup running back, and I like the idea of a returner, but I just dont like him. He has speed, but I dont see him creating- I see the line opening a lot of holes.

5) I dont know a lot about Adock, but you are money with lineman. Nice pick.

6) Hicks worries me, but a developmental NT this late is a good idea. Hicks could be special, but he was a nobody before a couple weeks ago.

7) I like the Paulson pick. Solid player, fits the Texans' mold of TEs.

Honoring Earl 34
02-02-2012, 12:17 PM
Without Free Agent to be Mario Williams:

First Round: Vinny Curry, OLB, Marshall, 6'3 3/8" 265

Explosive pass rusher with elite length, high ceiling, lower cost option to maintain quality 3-4 pass rushing fleet & resign other key free agents.

Second Round: Juron Criner, WR, Arizona, 6'2 1/8" 220

Experienced, NFL ready, size/speed/hands/route combination. Bright, eager teammate, rises to top of competition, ideal #2 to Andre Johnson.

Third Round: Josh Norman, CB, Coastal Carolina, 6'0" 203

First round talent vs small school competition. Ballhawk. Physical & competitive. Both long & short area recovery speed. Long arms, big hands, tremendous instincts ideal #2 CB for Texans.

Fourth Round: Isaiah Pead, RB/Returner, Cincinnati, 5'10 193

Premium return man who can also save roster spot in back-up RB duties. In the same mold as Joshua Cribbs who went undrafted, now return game is costing teams playoff games stock in reliable, playmaking returners a premium.

Fifth Round: Levy Adcock, OT, 6'5" 322

Where's the beef is here with next two picks. ZBS style OL who may compete immediately for LG duties. In time starter material immediate swing tackle.

6th Round: Akiem Hicks, NT, Regina, 6'5" 324

Disruptive, nasty-streak, unblock-able at times, will require double team next level. Adds strength to inside while Curry adds speed outside.

7th Round: David Paulson, TE, Oregon, 6'4" 250

Complete TE in Kubiak mold who is willing, effective blocker both on line & downfield, reliable hands, knack of finding seam/separate in coverage. Excellent red zone target, in Dwight Clark mold.

You had the same idea I had with the 1st round pick .

beerlover
02-02-2012, 12:52 PM
You had the same idea I had with the 1st round pick .

Great Minds Think Alike

beerlover
02-02-2012, 01:02 PM
Nice! Your first 3 picks are money, and the others are definitely not slouches.

1) Curry- dude has pass rush stud written all over him. Has the athleticism and the football sense to make an impact right away.

2) Criner- I have a hard time pegging Criner. I want to like him, but I think he gets overrated at times. However, the size is there, the talent is there, so if he can just stay on the field, he is worth a 2nd round pick. I would like Texans to take a chance on a big red zone target, so I like this pick a lot.

3) Norman is undoubtedly one of the biggest winners of the all star game circuit. The guy has great size and athleticism, just needs a little polishing. While corner may not be a need for the Texans any more, you dont pass on talent.

4) Pead.. I just dont like him. I like the idea of a backup running back, and I like the idea of a returner, but I just dont like him. He has speed, but I dont see him creating- I see the line opening a lot of holes.

5) I dont know a lot about Adock, but you are money with lineman. Nice pick.

6) Hicks worries me, but a developmental NT this late is a good idea. Hicks could be special, but he was a nobody before a couple weeks ago.

7) I like the Paulson pick. Solid player, fits the Texans' mold of TEs.

Thanks for your positive feedback, to reassure you regarding Pead & Hicks (not in our upcoming mock) I'll just say the following:

4) Pead..I just couldn't resist a positive game changing return guy in 4th rd. & special teams is a point of concern.
6) at least I'm not spending a 1st on a guy we haven't seen who isn't anymore raw that can still move up-field & penetrate the pocket. I think his off field issues can be addressed, contract restrictions, value is off the chart. Plus Texans need someone with an edge who can push Cody island.

Honoring Earl 34
02-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Great Minds Think Alike

I went OLB , G , NT , WR/TE , WR .

I think the Giants added two DE's and a DT after they won the SB in 2007 with a dominant DL .

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3410&type=team

SteveSlaton20
02-02-2012, 02:44 PM
Is Brooks Reed not good enough to be a starter for us? And I'd rather take a WR in the first, and one later on, but not later than the forth round.

Honoring Earl 34
02-02-2012, 04:29 PM
Is Brooks Reed not good enough to be a starter for us? And I'd rather take a WR in the first, and one later on, but not later than the forth round.

They won because of the defense and if Mario leaves who will be the backup .

Rey
02-02-2012, 04:37 PM
BL, you mocked two guys that I had in my latest mock in Hicks and Pead and in the same rounds...

Hicks, Pead, and Wright are my three major targets for this upcoming draft. I think they are going to be really good on the next level.

beerlover
02-02-2012, 05:33 PM
BL, you mocked two guys that I had in my latest mock in Hicks and Pead and in the same rounds...

Hicks, Pead, and Wright are my three major targets for this upcoming draft. I think they are going to be really good on the next level.

I would select Wright if he's there & Texans resign Mario Williams :mariopalm:

Honoring Earl 34
02-02-2012, 05:47 PM
I would select Wright if he's there & Texans resign Mario Williams :mariopalm:

I think the Texans will shy away from Floyd so that leaves Wright . I had to go back and look what I did . I think OLB , G/C , DL , WR , are priorities for the draft .

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89250

Rey
02-02-2012, 05:57 PM
I would select Wright if he's there & Texans resign Mario Williams :mariopalm:

Yeah...And I think he will be there....

steelbtexan
02-02-2012, 07:04 PM
Without Free Agent to be Mario Williams:

First Round: Vinny Curry, OLB, Marshall, 6'3 3/8" 265

Explosive pass rusher with elite length, high ceiling, lower cost option to maintain quality 3-4 pass rushing fleet & resign other key free agents.

Second Round: Juron Criner, WR, Arizona, 6'2 1/8" 220

Experienced, NFL ready, size/speed/hands/route combination. Bright, eager teammate, rises to top of competition, ideal #2 to Andre Johnson.

Third Round: Josh Norman, CB, Coastal Carolina, 6'0" 203

First round talent vs small school competition. Ballhawk. Physical & competitive. Both long & short area recovery speed. Long arms, big hands, tremendous instincts ideal #2 CB for Texans.

Fourth Round: Isaiah Pead, RB/Returner, Cincinnati, 5'10 193

Premium return man who can also save roster spot in back-up RB duties. In the same mold as Joshua Cribbs who went undrafted, now return game is costing teams playoff games stock in reliable, playmaking returners a premium.

Fifth Round: Levy Adcock, OT, 6'5" 322

Where's the beef is here with next two picks. ZBS style OL who may compete immediately for LG duties. In time starter material immediate swing tackle.

6th Round: Akiem Hicks, NT, Regina, 6'5" 324

Disruptive, nasty-streak, unblock-able at times, will require double team next level. Adds strength to inside while Curry adds speed outside.

7th Round: David Paulson, TE, Oregon, 6'4" 250

Complete TE in Kubiak mold who is willing, effective blocker both on line & downfield, reliable hands, knack of finding seam/separate in coverage. Excellent red zone target, in Dwight Clark mold.

1. Curry- I'm OK with this pick. Not sure how he transitions to a 5-2 defense. You probably could get the same player (Cam Johnson, Bequette in the 3rd)
2. Criner- Good pick, he looks NFL ready to me.
3. Norman- Love this pick. Big physical CB that is able to flip his hips and run.
4. Pead- Love this pick, Immediately makes huge KR/PR upgrade. Ward is going to walk and Pead is exactly the type of change of pace RB that I want on the Texans. Also a good 3rd down back, good hands. Hope he's there in the 4th rd.
5. Adcock- Dont really like this pick. He had a bad Sr. yr. Not really physical/mobile. A bad combination for a NFL OL.
6. Hicks- Love this pick. Hope he's there.
7. Paulson- Good pick. Do you think his all star performances dropped Paulson from the 4th rd spot you had him going in. To a 7th rd fringe roster kinda guy now?

Insideop
02-02-2012, 07:10 PM
This would be a great draft it it happened this way. But, I don't think they will go OLB in the 1st even if Mario leaves. I do think Curry is going to be a good one in the NFL and I think he does fit the Texans type of player (relentless, hustles, leader). However, if he's there for them in the 1st, it may be just too tempting!

thunderkyss
02-02-2012, 07:12 PM
Without Free Agent to be Mario Williams:

Is there a thread somewhere, where you & the other draftniks discussed & reached a consensus about team needs.. FA retention, & that kind of thing?

Do we think a late first round OLB can be the dynamic pass rusher we need? Are we expecting more from Barwin & Reed... where this first rounder would actually play behind both Barwin & Reed?


Did we conclude that we do not need interior offensive line talent?

Or is this just your take on team needs?

Not trying to be rude, just asking. :barman:

beerlover
02-02-2012, 08:06 PM
Is there a thread somewhere, where you & the other draftniks discussed & reached a consensus about team needs.. FA retention, & that kind of thing?

Do we think a late first round OLB can be the dynamic pass rusher we need? Are we expecting more from Barwin & Reed... where this first rounder would actually play behind both Barwin & Reed?


Did we conclude that we do not need interior offensive line talent?

Or is this just your take on team needs?

Not trying to be rude, just asking. :barman:

I would imagine Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak, all refreshed from vacation in Hawaii, are evaluating current roster assigning grades, prioritizing needs then applying everything together under the salary cap. How much can we afford to spend on OLB position, for example. It's almost as big of question as the man himself. Taking this into consideration is just one option that keeps position of strength without breaking the cap so other Texans can be re-signed, like Center Chris Myers & OG Mike Brisel just to name a couple since your focus is offensive linemen.

Honoring Earl 34
02-02-2012, 08:13 PM
I would imagine Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak, all refreshed from vacation in Hawaii, are evaluating current roster assigning grades, prioritizing needs then applying everything together under the salary cap. How much can we afford to spend on OLB position, for example. It's almost as big of question as the man himself. Taking this into consideration is just one option that keeps position of strength without breaking the cap so other Texans can be re-signed, like Center Chris Myers & OG Mike Brisel just to name a couple since your focus is offensive linemen.

Saving money while keeping the unit strong .

thunderkyss
02-02-2012, 08:16 PM
I would imagine Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak, all refreshed from vacation in Hawaii, are evaluating current roster assigning grades, prioritizing needs then applying everything together under the salary cap. How much can we afford to spend on OLB position, for example. It's almost as big of question as the man himself. Taking this into consideration is just one option that keeps position of strength without breaking the cap so other Texans can be re-signed, like Center Chris Myers & OG Mike Brisel just to name a couple since your focus is offensive linemen.

I know you guys do this "mock draft" stuff for fun, I was wondering how far you guys take it..... I used to stay up late nights in dark rooms playing dungeons & dragons.. did y'all get together and make these decisions, as if y'all were Rick, Gary, & Cal?

TimeKiller
02-02-2012, 08:50 PM
[QUOTE=beerlover;1893763]Without Free Agent to be Mario Williams:

First Round: Vinny Curry, OLB, Marshall, 6'3 3/8" 265

Even with Mario leaving I don't like pick. Doubtful he's BPA and Barwin/Reed have proven themselves worthy of another shot. Even if it's another OL pick and not a top flight skill guy they've got to get some blue chip talent on the offensive side. Got a couple more names to research but I liked your other mocks better.

badboy
02-02-2012, 10:10 PM
[QUOTE=beerlover;1893763]Without Free Agent to be Mario Williams:

First Round: Vinny Curry, OLB, Marshall, 6'3 3/8" 265

Even with Mario leaving I don't like pick. Doubtful he's BPA and Barwin/Reed have proven themselves worthy of another shot. Even if it's another OL pick and not a top flight skill guy they've got to get some blue chip talent on the offensive side. Got a couple more names to research but I liked your other mocks better.Curry is gonna be another Cushing on the field and has been moving up boards all season. If Mario is gone few will want to depend on last season's roster guys to back up Reed and Barwin. Curry does not have to start to be our first pick. Our starters are sound except WR2. BL addresses that need in round two.

badboy
02-02-2012, 10:20 PM
I know you guys do this "mock draft" stuff for fun, I was wondering how far you guys take it..... I used to stay up late nights in dark rooms playing dungeons & dragons.. did y'all get together and make these decisions, as if y'all were Rick, Gary, & Cal?Not to pat ourselves on back but yes we take it pretty far. All season long Beerlover, Rmartin 65 & I burn up PMs tossing players, stats, video, links etc at each other. We really chew up a player and spit him out. Each of us of course have favorites and not all end up on our 3 Amigos annual mock. It is very stressful yet lots of fun. So far each off season, we have decided to call off the joint mock but the thrill pulls us back. At least for one more year. We should be posting our pre-combine mock soon and hopefully it will cause discussion, debate and more than likely dissent as the others have.

TimeKiller
02-03-2012, 08:37 AM
[QUOTE=TimeKiller;1894066]Curry is gonna be another Cushing on the field and has been moving up boards all season. If Mario is gone few will want to depend on last season's roster guys to back up Reed and Barwin. Curry does not have to start to be our first pick. Our starters are sound except WR2. BL addresses that need in round two.

If he won't start and there are other players who will.......that's a wasted pick to me. I'd even rather see a CB than another LBer. And if he did start that would completely undermine the success of Barwin/Reed and derails any chance at them improving. Seen a few highlights of Curry, he's a gifted athlete, no doubt but practically any other position would be better served with a #1 pick.

Criner, admittedly I haven't done much research but I think that's because I'm still picking up on guys who will be available even in the 2nd who are better prospects. IMO that would make 2 big reaches in a row.

Speaking of starting not one other pick stands the remote possibility of starting, even in the case of injury they would likely be down the line. The RB for instance. The CB is only a good pick if KJ, Harris, McCain, Carmichael AND McMannis all flop out. The TE may never even get a locker. The OT is 5th at best on the depth chart behind Brown, Winston, Newton and Butler. Just not my favorite beerlover effort.

Honoring Earl 34
02-03-2012, 10:16 AM
[QUOTE=badboy;1894125]

If he won't start and there are other players who will.......that's a wasted pick to me. I'd even rather see a CB than another LBer. And if he did start that would completely undermine the success of Barwin/Reed and derails any chance at them improving. Seen a few highlights of Curry, he's a gifted athlete, no doubt but practically any other position would be better served with a #1 pick.

Criner, admittedly I haven't done much research but I think that's because I'm still picking up on guys who will be available even in the 2nd who are better prospects. IMO that would make 2 big reaches in a row.

Speaking of starting not one other pick stands the remote possibility of starting, even in the case of injury they would likely be down the line. The RB for instance. The CB is only a good pick if KJ, Harris, McCain, Carmichael AND McMannis all flop out. The TE may never even get a locker. The OT is 5th at best on the depth chart behind Brown, Winston, Newton and Butler. Just not my favorite beerlover effort.

The pass rush makes that defense and if Barwin and Reed get hurt you have Jesse Nading . Now I do think Brian B #50 can be a player and if Wade and staff think so then it's plan B time . There's no plug and play or shouldn't be anyway ... Kareem Jackson ... .

Rey
02-03-2012, 11:26 AM
I think Nading is a good player. If the bpa happens to be an outside LB type player, so be it, but I'm fine with Nading as a back up. I didn't think he should have been cut last year because to me he looked better than Brooks Reed in the pre-season.

beerlover
02-03-2012, 12:52 PM
I think Nading is a good player. If the bpa happens to be an outside LB type player, so be it, but I'm fine with Nading as a back up. I didn't think he should have been cut last year because to me he looked better than Brooks Reed in the pre-season.

talking about elite pass rushing attack with or without Mario Williams. Even though Texans maintained pressure once Mario went out for season there was a big drop-off in sacks & QB hurries remember 2011 losing streak? The Texans pass rush disappeared when Mario got hurt, took them a few games to adjust then fared well into the playoffs, or were the teams offensive lines really that good? if Rick & Co. cannot come to terms with Mr. Williams it creates a vacuum which I'm sure Wade Phillips will want/need to address. Remember last year before the Senior Bowl & a lot of us had Von Miller mocked to Texans early? Well all he did was become the defensive mvp of that all star game, impressed NFL coaches & brass, went to the Combine & flashed his amazing speed winding up in Denver as the #2 overall selection. Similar things with Aldon Smith, but there were some lingering off field issues that kept him off my Texan board, it seemed post draft by Wade Phillips & others comments the Texans would have taken him if available.

Another example of elite pass rusher is Jason Pierre-Paul who taken by Giants after beating that 19-0 New England Patriot team, Brady was sacked 5 times & hit another 9. Giants know pass rush kills. Denver defense received a huge overall with one of the best edge pass rushers & 49'ers have what is considered the best defense in football. All three have elite pass rushers, latest selected was Paul, but arguably the best value #15 so how in hell is would anybody object to Texans addressing pass rush with elite talent #26 if unable to pay Mario Williams a big free agency contract?

Vinny Curry is no more raw than a young Pierre-Paul or Aldon Smith, two big question marks for both players that proved unfounded. A natural pass rusher is born with god given talent & instincts. Applied in the right system with quality coaching I have no fear or doubts he would be able to add another athletic, speed pass rusher as OLB in Wade Phillips attack.

Should be adapt at playing both 4-3 and 3-4 in time
Has great size/speed combination
Very sound at stripping the football
Explosive tackler
Has been productive for 3 years
Gained 20 pounds of muscle this off season without losing speed
Great agility at turning corner around the tackle
Quick, quick, quick
http://nflmocks.com/files/2011/11/Vinny-Curry.jpg

Rey
02-03-2012, 02:20 PM
talking about elite pass rushing attack with or without Mario Williams. Even though Texans maintained pressure once Mario went out for season there was a big drop-off in sacks & QB hurries remember 2011 losing streak? The Texans pass rush disappeared when Mario got hurt, took them a few games to adjust then fared well into the playoffs, or were the teams offensive lines really that good? if Rick & Co. cannot come to terms with Mr. Williams it creates a vacuum which I'm sure Wade Phillips will want/need to address. Remember last year before the Senior Bowl & a lot of us had Von Miller mocked to Texans early? Well all he did was become the defensive mvp of that all star game, impressed NFL coaches & brass, went to the Combine & flashed his amazing speed winding up in Denver as the #2 overall selection. Similar things with Aldon Smith, but there were some lingering off field issues that kept him off my Texan board, it seemed post draft by Wade Phillips & others comments the Texans would have taken him if available.

Another example of elite pass rusher is Jason Pierre-Paul who taken by Giants after beating that 19-0 New England Patriot team, Brady was sacked 5 times & hit another 9. Giants know pass rush kills. Denver defense received a huge overall with one of the best edge pass rushers & 49'ers have what is considered the best defense in football. All three have elite pass rushers, latest selected was Paul, but arguably the best value #15 so how in hell is would anybody object to Texans addressing pass rush with elite talent #26 if unable to pay Mario Williams a big free agency contract?

Vinny Curry is no more raw than a young Pierre-Paul or Aldon Smith, two big question marks for both players that proved unfounded. A natural pass rusher is born with god given talent & instincts. Applied in the right system with quality coaching I have no fear or doubts he would be able to add another athletic, speed pass rusher as OLB in Wade Phillips attack.

Should be adapt at playing both 4-3 and 3-4 in time
Has great size/speed combination
Very sound at stripping the football
Explosive tackler
Has been productive for 3 years
Gained 20 pounds of muscle this off season without losing speed
Great agility at turning corner around the tackle
Quick, quick, quick
http://nflmocks.com/files/2011/11/Vinny-Curry.jpg


I hear what you ar saying, but my only issue with that is: Are you drafting this guy to sit behind Brooks Reed or are you drafting this guy to play ahead of him?

There are issues with both of those outcomes.

It sounds nice to say draft him and let them compete in camp, but it's hard to actually get a a true competition in camp. Very rarely are starting jobs won during that time.

If we are looking to bolster OLB I would look at guys in later rounds. UNLESS, there was one on the board that was just head and shoulders above everyone else on the board.

If the guys on the board are about evenly rated I'd rather go with a position like WR or even gaurd or corner.

Honoring Earl 34
02-03-2012, 02:36 PM
I hear what you ar saying, but my only issue with that is: Are you drafting this guy to sit behind Brooks Reed or are you drafting this guy to play ahead of him?

There are issues with both of those outcomes.

It sounds nice to say draft him and let them compete in camp, but it's hard to actually get a a true competition in camp. Very rarely are starting jobs won during that time.

If we are looking to bolster OLB I would look at guys in later rounds. UNLESS, there was one on the board that was just head and shoulders above everyone else on the board.

If the guys on the board are about evenly rated I'd rather go with a position like WR or even gaurd or corner.


So who is gonna come in and start at #26 ?

TimeKiller
02-03-2012, 03:47 PM
[QUOTE=TimeKiller;1894279]

The pass rush makes that defense and if Barwin and Reed get hurt you have Jesse Nading . Now I do think Brian B #50 can be a player and if Wade and staff think so then it's plan B time . There's no plug and play or shouldn't be anyway ... Kareem Jackson ... .

We'll just have to agree to disagree, I believe you pick up a guy in round 1 he should start AND be good. Picking the wrong player is a different issue....

how in hell would anybody object to Texans addressing pass rush with elite talent #26 if unable to pay Mario Williams a big free agency contract?


Like this:

The most ferocious pass rush I've ever seen in Texans gear came on the backs of Watt, Reed and Barwin. Not and in NO way related to Mario Williams, so of course, who is the one looking for mega bucks? Mario but they've already replaced him.

badboy
02-03-2012, 05:26 PM
[QUOTE=badboy;1894125]

If he won't start and there are other players who will.......that's a wasted pick to me. I'd even rather see a CB than another LBer. And if he did start that would completely undermine the success of Barwin/Reed and derails any chance at them improving. Seen a few highlights of Curry, he's a gifted athlete, no doubt but practically any other position would be better served with a #1 pick.

Criner, admittedly I haven't done much research but I think that's because I'm still picking up on guys who will be available even in the 2nd who are better prospects. IMO that would make 2 big reaches in a row.

Speaking of starting not one other pick stands the remote possibility of starting, even in the case of injury they would likely be down the line. The RB for instance. The CB is only a good pick if KJ, Harris, McCain, Carmichael AND McMannis all flop out. The TE may never even get a locker. The OT is 5th at best on the depth chart behind Brown, Winston, Newton and Butler. Just not my favorite beerlover effort.There will not be a corner at #26 or later that will start for us. Keep in mind that Brandon Harris was considered a first round by some & Smith traded back up into 2nd to pick him. He has seen little action. If you prefer a CB over a LB, cool.

thunderkyss
02-03-2012, 06:40 PM
[QUOTE=Honoring Earl 34;1894313]

We'll just have to agree to disagree, I believe you pick up a guy in round 1 he should start AND be good. Picking the wrong player is a different issue....



Unless we're talking elite talent..... depending on the draft, I think that's top 10-15 players.... a 1st rounder should not "expect" to start unless he's going to a bad team.. picking 20 or so, he's probably not going to a bad team.

With no Mario, Brooks Reed will start opposite Connor. The new kid will be able to rotate in & build up his stamina.

beerlover
02-03-2012, 08:33 PM
[QUOTE=TimeKiller;1894520]

Unless we're talking elite talent..... depending on the draft, I think that's top 10-15 players.... a 1st rounder should not "expect" to start unless he's going to a bad team.. picking 20 or so, he's probably not going to a bad team.

With no Mario, Brooks Reed will start opposite Connor. The new kid will be able to rotate in & build up his stamina.

case in point, Jason Pierre-Paul. in fact I had to look this up, did not have one start in 2010 his rookie year. didn't have his first sack (2) until week 12, ending with 4.5. Year two he started 12 games, escalating his sack total up to 16.5. a work in progress, yes but worth the investment? most defiantly. now let me ask this question again, would we as Texan fans, not be happy with similar production out of our #1 pick? Combined with core group of outstanding young players, one can imagine it bodes well for future success.

It's impossible until Draft Day, when Texans selection is called to project who the best player available will be. It's much easier to say what the biggest needs are & that those have to be addressed early or at least often, but I think this mock accomplishes that, WR Juron Criner will compete for starting minutes with his experience, size, intelligence & playmaker ability. Josh Norman fills Jason Allen shoes in CB rotation, he has starting corner ability & is a ballhawk with elite size. Isaiah Pead would be Texan new returner, offers exceptional value providing RB depth. Levy Adcock is the kind of OT/LG prospect Texans covet. Akiem Hicks is a low risk, high reward big inside body to bolster the DL. David Paulson is a red zone target, special teams demon & the all around complete TE you normally find in Wisconsin Tight Ends.

otisbean
02-04-2012, 05:55 AM
I think at this point we should be drafting BPA, and if thats an OLB so be it. IN my mind that fastest way to become an elite team is adding as many top flight players as possible. Reaching for need is an easy way to become mediocre. In a perfect world there's a player at 26 that is one of the BPAs and he fills a need.

BTW, I like what I saw in Curry at the SB practices and in the game. He'll be a good player. Another guy that could be interesting is Perry from USC if he were to fall a bit.

ObsiWan
02-04-2012, 12:22 PM
So who is gonna come in and start at #26 ?

This draft will be unlike any other draft we've ever had. We won't be drafting to fill an obvious hole as in years past.

Even if we pick a WR with the 26th pick, it's not guaranteed he'd automatically step right in and supplant K.W. Unless one of the top 3-4 WR falls to #26, I'd be all for trading out of the first round and picking up additional picks for depth or to use as bargaining chips.

thunderkyss
02-04-2012, 12:57 PM
This draft will be unlike any other draft we've ever had. We won't be drafting to fill an obvious hole as in years past.

Even if we pick a WR with the 26th pick, it's not guaranteed he'd automatically step right in and supplant K.W. Unless one of the top 3-4 WR falls to #26, I'd be all for trading out of the first round and picking up additional picks for depth or to use as bargaining chips.

Even still.. you put your best players on the field. If K.W. has better grasp of the play-book, you go with his sure hands. Let the rook play spot duty 'till we are sure he can contribute. Bryant Johnson is a good example, 1st round pick in 2003 (17th overall (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6353)) but didn't work out.

The biggest difference between this draft & others, unless we cut KDub, Sean Cody, Wade Smith..... our 1st round pick is going to have to earn a starter position.

badboy
02-04-2012, 01:11 PM
Even still.. you put your best players on the field. If K.W. has better grasp of the play-book, you go with his sure hands. Let the rook play spot duty 'till we are sure he can contribute. Bryant Johnson is a good example, 1st round pick in 2003 (17th overall (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6353)) but didn't work out.

The biggest difference between this draft & others, unless we cut KDub, Sean Cody, Wade Smith..... our 1st round pick is going to have to earn a starter position.I agree TK except for maybe WR2 (JJ) & as you say Walter should get most reps.

Honoring Earl 34
02-04-2012, 01:14 PM
Even still.. you put your best players on the field. If K.W. has better grasp of the play-book, you go with his sure hands. Let the rook play spot duty 'till we are sure he can contribute. Bryant Johnson is a good example, 1st round pick in 2003 (17th overall (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6353)) but didn't work out.

The biggest difference between this draft & others, unless we cut KDub, Sean Cody, Wade Smith..... our 1st round pick is going to have to earn a starter position.

Another thing is talented players are gonna want more money when their contract is up . This will be Barwin and Cushings 4th year , who you gonna pay first ? You have to fortify your strengths while working on your weekness .

badboy
02-04-2012, 04:15 PM
Another thing is talented players are gonna want more money when their contract is up . This will be Barwin and Cushings 4th year , who you gonna pay first ? You have to fortify your strengths while working on your weekness .2013 begins new tv deal and cap should rise immensely. Signing these players should not be difficult.

beerlover
02-04-2012, 04:53 PM
without turning this into anything other than good mock draft discussion, in regards to this whole should Texans make the investment in Mario Williams to remain part of this team thing, along with other eventual free agents is it must first be determined who the core players will be on this team moving forward. Is he or isn't he that is the question, show me some :cheese:

SteveSlaton20
02-04-2012, 05:29 PM
They won because of the defense and if Mario leaves who will be the backup .

Oh, you want to draft a backup in the first round instead of a starter? That's cool.

Honoring Earl 34
02-04-2012, 05:53 PM
Oh, you want to draft a backup in the first round instead of a starter? That's cool.

No ... I want depth , he can win the job if he wants .

beerlover
02-04-2012, 06:18 PM
No ... I want depth , he can win the job if he wants .

It's funny how some fans have such short term memory loss. Guess he forgot Connor Barwin being carted off the field in 2010 season opener against Indianapolis with a severe right leg injury. Not sure how but he obviously did - http://www.blogcdn.com/nfl.fanhouse.com/media/2010/09/barwin-injury.jpg

TimeKiller
02-04-2012, 09:27 PM
It's funny how some fans have such short term memory loss. Guess he forgot Connor Barwin being carted off the field in 2010 season opener against Indianapolis with a severe right leg injury. Not sure how but he obviously did - http://www.blogcdn.com/nfl.fanhouse.com/media/2010/09/barwin-injury.jpg

The chances of Vinny Curry breaking an ankle is just as likely as it is for Barwin. Injuries happen, I don't see anyone clamoring for a 1st round QB because Schaub broke his foot.

beerlover
02-04-2012, 10:07 PM
The chances of Vinny Curry breaking an ankle is just as likely as it is for Barwin. Injuries happen, I don't see anyone clamoring for a 1st round QB because Schaub broke his foot.

This is exactly why depth is important & every position. :mariopalm:

Schaub out in comes Leinart. First half Leinart out in comes TJ. Rick Smith combs the available QB market & brings in Jake Delhomme who was not enough so they brought in Jerry Garcia, oops I mean Jeff Garcia. Talk about depth concerns & short term memory lapses.

TimeKiller
02-05-2012, 11:06 AM
This is exactly why depth is important & every position. :mariopalm:

Schaub out in comes Leinart. First half Leinart out in comes TJ. Rick Smith combs the available QB market & brings in Jake Delhomme who was not enough so they brought in Jerry Garcia, oops I mean Jeff Garcia. Talk about depth concerns & short term memory lapses.

Um, I remember what happened, thank you very little. BPA/Need drafting is one thing but if you're seriously going to prop this up as a pick we must have because someone is going to get injured...


Yeah, you need DEPTH behind Barwin and Reed...I just don't see how selecting an OLB is a prudent choice while you still need a boost at interior OL, WR and CB. Much less reaching on a guy who is still considered a 2nd round pick...

Honoring Earl 34
02-05-2012, 11:43 AM
Um, I remember what happened, thank you very little. BPA/Need drafting is one thing but if you're seriously going to prop this up as a pick we must have because someone is going to get injured...


Yeah, you need DEPTH behind Barwin and Reed...I just don't see how selecting an OLB is a prudent choice while you still need a boost at interior OL, WR and CB. Much less reaching on a guy who is still considered a 2nd round pick...

Atlanta gave up a bunch to get Julio Jones and they didn't go as far as the Texans . Why ... cause they could only muster 2 points vs the Giants . The Giants had a FA Wr out play Julio .

The point is a guy who can put pressure on a QB is extremely valuable . A good G/C can be had in the 2nd and I'd rather get a FA good CB because they haven't had a lot of success in the draft .

As far as WR goes if Blackmon or Wright are there go for it . I don't think they'll draft the ND guy and there's a bunch of players who are carbon copies of each other .

thunderkyss
02-05-2012, 12:19 PM
Yeah, you need DEPTH behind Barwin and Reed...I just don't see how selecting an OLB is a prudent choice while you still need a boost at interior OL, WR and CB. Much less reaching on a guy who is still considered a 2nd round pick...

IMO, it's simple. If Andre wasn't expected to come back, then WR is a big need. We'll get someone in FA & we'll pick a high draft pick & a low draft pick. FAs, just like the draft, you don't know what you're going to get.....Randy Moss to Oakland/Randy Moss to New England. Draft picks are pretty much the same. Tedd Ginn Jr, Robert Meachum, Darius Heyward-BAy(sp), so you have to load up & hedge your bets.

We were still a top 5 offense without Andre, but you're silly if you think this team is not better with him.

Same goes for Mario. Like it or not, the rest of the league sees him as a dominant pass rusher. He might not put out the "effort" some would like to see on every play, but you don't run at him. He contains the backside & he gets to the QB.

Barwin + Mario is a much better package than Barwin + Reed, right now. There is a good chance that Reed can improve in 2012 & be as good as Mario..... or there is a chance that Barwin can be as good as Mario & Reed be as good as Barwin.

But there is as good a chance that Reed, or JjWatt will hit that sophomore slump. It's more likely that they won't hit that slump if Mario is the focus of the OL.

Again, it's just my opinion & it's obvious not everyone agrees. But neither Barwin or Reed was elite (JjWatt was elite), so you're hoping they will be elite in 2012. You need a high draft pick, or an elite pass rushing FA (which do not normally hit FA) to hedge your bets.

Honoring Earl 34
02-05-2012, 12:40 PM
IMO, it's simple. If Andre wasn't expected to come back, then WR is a big need. We'll get someone in FA & we'll pick a high draft pick & a low draft pick. FAs, just like the draft, you don't know what you're going to get.....Randy Moss to Oakland/Randy Moss to New England. Draft picks are pretty much the same. Tedd Ginn Jr, Robert Meachum, Darius Heyward-BAy(sp), so you have to load up & hedge your bets.

We were still a top 5 offense without Andre, but you're silly if you think this team is not better with him.

Same goes for Mario. Like it or not, the rest of the league sees him as a dominant pass rusher. He might not put out the "effort" some would like to see on every play, but you don't run at him. He contains the backside & he gets to the QB.

Barwin + Mario is a much better package than Barwin + Reed, right now. There is a good chance that Reed can improve in 2012 & be as good as Mario..... or there is a chance that Barwin can be as good as Mario & Reed be as good as Barwin.

But there is as good a chance that Reed, or JjWatt will hit that sophomore slump. It's more likely that they won't hit that slump if Mario is the focus of the OL.

Again, it's just my opinion & it's obvious not everyone agrees. But neither Barwin or Reed was elite (JjWatt was elite), so you're hoping they will be elite in 2012. You need a high draft pick, or an elite pass rushing FA (which do not normally hit FA) to hedge your bets.

I think an elite QB , shut down CB , Elite LT , and an elite pass rusher are are endangered spieces on the FA/ trade market and there's a reason why .

Off the top of my head in recent years

Drew Brees ... FA
Jared Allen ... trade
Jason Peters ... trade
Champ Bailey ... trade

thunderkyss
02-05-2012, 12:53 PM
I think an elite QB , shut down CB , Elite LT , and an elite pass rusher are are endangered spieces on the FA/ trade market and there's a reason why .

Off the top of my head in recent years

Drew Brees ... FA
Jared Allen ... trade
Jason Peters ... trade
Champ Bailey ... trade

Nnamdi Asomugha was thought to be a shutdown corner. He is another example of FA acquisitions not always working out. Doesn't matter the reason, it happens.

Jjo was not considered a shutdown corner in Cincy, in fact he was thought to be their #2 CB behind Leon Hall. He outperformed all expectations.

ObsiWan
02-05-2012, 01:03 PM
Even still.. you put your best players on the field. If K.W. has better grasp of the play-book, you go with his sure hands. Let the rook play spot duty 'till we are sure he can contribute. Bryant Johnson is a good example, 1st round pick in 2003 (17th overall (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6353)) but didn't work out.

The biggest difference between this draft & others, unless we cut KDub, Sean Cody, Wade Smith..... our 1st round pick is going to have to earn a starter position.

I think we're saying the same thing. No one, not even our 1st round pick, is guaranteed a starting job as in years past. And that's a good thing. It means we've assembled a very solid team.

Having said that, we should draft with the idea that our 1st round pick will give the current starter a good, hard, run for his money. And he should, at least make the current #2 guy very nervous about his status on the depth chart.

Honoring Earl 34
02-05-2012, 01:09 PM
Nnamdi Asomugha was thought to be a shutdown corner. He is another example of FA acquisitions not always working out. Doesn't matter the reason, it happens.

Jjo was not considered a shutdown corner in Cincy, in fact he was thought to be their #2 CB behind Leon Hall. He outperformed all expectations.

I'm not sure Oakland would have let Nnambi go if he was in his prime . The key was Smith making the deal with the player on the rise for less money .

thunderkyss
02-05-2012, 02:06 PM
I'm not sure Oakland would have let Nnambi go if he was in his prime . The key was Smith making the deal with the player on the rise for less money .

The key was Smith not acting like a love sick puppy & letting the FA define when a deal will or will not be done, thereby missing out on the other quality FAs.

basically I'm agreeing with you, just augmenting your point. (msr & all that)

Honoring Earl 34
02-05-2012, 02:39 PM
The key was Smith not acting like a love sick puppy & letting the FA define when a deal will or will not be done, thereby missing out on the other quality FAs.

basically I'm agreeing with you, just augmenting your point. (msr & all that)

Yep ... Rick read his Consumer Reports .

beerlover
02-05-2012, 07:51 PM
JPP is a stud can't have too many pass rushers. Now you can see why....

thunderkyss
02-05-2012, 10:51 PM
JPP is a stud can't have too many pass rushers. Now you can see why....

He is.

But Eli got rushed, hit, smaked, & sacked more often than Brady did. The Giants pass rush let me down.... till the end of the game.

New England doesn't have the pass rushers the Giants have & they made Eli work for that Super Bowl.

But I do get, & agree, with your point.

ObsiWan
02-06-2012, 05:22 AM
JPP is a stud can't have too many pass rushers. Now you can see why....

...and yet some want to let MW go elsewhere....
if he leaves - no matter why - we better draft his replacement in the first 3 picks.

thunderkyss
02-06-2012, 08:22 AM
...and yet some want to let MW go elsewhere....
if he leaves - no matter why - we better draft his replacement in the first 3 picks.

What doesn't make sense.... these draft guys know that losing Mario creates a big need @ outside pass rusher

Truth is we'll be looking for an outside pass-rusher in FA as well, & the top pass rusher in FA will be off limits. We'll be trying to replace Mario with players we know aren't as good.

TimeKiller
02-06-2012, 08:37 AM
...and yet some want to let MW go elsewhere....
if he leaves - no matter why - we better draft his replacement in the first 3 picks.

Didn't they?

Connor Barwin- Round 2
Brooks Reed- Round 2

thunderkyss
02-06-2012, 08:46 AM
Didn't they?

Connor Barwin- Round 2
Brooks Reed- Round 2

Both those guys are great. But I don't see them as Mario's replacement. Mario, Barwin, Reed..... that's a good rotation.

Barwin, Reed, Nading..... is not.

If I thought Barwin or Reed were going to play like CM III in 2012 I can kind of see your argument. But I don't. We need to draft a Von Miller type prospect..... a CM III kind of guy... a Harrison.... a beast coming off the edge.

Or just resign Mario.

Before we get to the Mario is not "those guys" argument, look at CM III's numbers this year, with no help. That's where Mario has been. No help on the line (Barwin got hurt last year) & no help in the secondary (we got our first coverage sack in the MW era in 2011).

Rey
02-06-2012, 09:02 AM
The chances of Vinny Curry breaking an ankle is just as likely as it is for Barwin. Injuries happen, I don't see anyone clamoring for a 1st round QB because Schaub broke his foot.

I have seen several people indicate wanting Griffin or Luck or even Manning.

But the difference is that those are far fetched if not impossible scenarios. Grabbing Curry is verrrrry doable..

I don't agree with OLB in the first, I'm just sayin...

ObsiWan
02-11-2012, 11:42 PM
Didn't they?

Connor Barwin- Round 2
Brooks Reed- Round 2

If these two are good, how come having all three isn't better??

Let me ask another way (and I know this is tough, but try to take relative salaries out of your decision-making); if Mario returns do you think either of these guys would start ahead of him?

Man, the three of them in a OLB rotation! Wade would be drooling - no - probably IS drooling at the havok they will wreak from week to week.

I know I am.

steelbtexan
02-12-2012, 12:03 AM
Great

Another thread turning into a keep/dont keep Mario thread.

I wouldn't keep MW except under the right $$$$. But if BoB/Rick/Wade decide to keep MW I'm OK with it. I trust Wades judgement. I hope if they let MW walk the pro MW crowd will trust Wades judgement and let it go. (Wont happen LOL)