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Brisco_County
01-30-2012, 08:02 PM
Solomon wrote some articles I liked this year. This is not one of them.

I would like to put this issue to rest before it catches on. Solomon's arguments are basically that Schaub's recovery is unreliable, Manning is more durable than Schaub, Manning is Manning, and you have to pony up the contract for Manning if you're serious about winning a championship.

Once Manning is let go he should be as interested in the Texans as they would be in him. There might not be a better fit for him in the NFL.

The Texans possess an experienced offense with a strong line and some top-notch weapons as well as a stingy defense. The franchise should hold a dominant position in a weak division for the next couple of seasons, a point that theoretically should translate to a sure playoff berth and an easier path to the Super Bowl than most other potential suitors.

With Schaub missing the final eight games because of foot surgery, the Texans would be remiss if they didn’t try to woo Manning.

Manning, who threw for a career-best 4,700 yards in 2010 and for more than 4,000 in his five previous seasons (and in 11 of his 13 years in the league), turns 36 in March. Don’t get too caught up in the fact he missed last season. Those were the first games he had missed in his career.

Schaub, who will be 31 this summer, has missed 16 starts in 80 games as a Texan. Manning has missed 16 starts in 224 games. So which one is more of an injury risk?

A Texans official said Friday the team is confident and all early indications are that Schaub will be 100 percent by the start of next season. There is no guarantee of that.

He is coming off Lisfranc surgery on his foot, an injury from which some players never recover. Three years after that surgery forced him to miss a Patriots Super Bowl victory, Ty Law said he wasn’t 100 percent. Glenn Earl started every game at safety for the Texans in 2006, but he suffered that injury in an exhibition game the next season and never again played in the NFL.

Link (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/01/solomon-if-manning-on-market-texans-should-be-first-in-line/)

Let's dismiss the obvious first: Matt Schaub's job does not demand nimble maneuvering or power cleaning a DE. But that's a minor argument. The root argument against Solomon's assertion comes down to these three facts:

1) The Texans are not going to enter a bidding war they are certain to lose due to cap restrictions, and in the process demoralize their entrenched starter.
2) Manning is an on-the-field general who does not fit the Texans' West Coast style of executing the exact play called by the OC or Kubiak. Manning improvs, the Texans stick to the script.
3) Schaub is 31. Manning is 36.

Solomon has let his emotions get in the way of analysis here. That hasn't been an entirely bad tendency this year, since it has actually inspired some good articles where he played the role of optimistic, Texans flag waving opinion writer. The fanbase benefits from that, and I thought it was a fitting and distinctive role for him. But in this case, he wrote something that is not even in the same zip code as logic.

Texan_Bill
01-30-2012, 08:08 PM
Solomon never ceases to amaze me!!

PLEASE Queen Solomon, put the pipe down.

A) Manning wants to call ALL the plays on the field.

B) Kubiak wouldn't give up the reigns to his offense.

C) No one knows the real status of Manning's neck.

D) They call Pay-me Manning for a reason.

Brisco_County
01-30-2012, 08:10 PM
Solomon never ceases to amaze me!!

PLEASE Queen Solomon, put the pipe down.

A) Manning wants to call ALL the plays on the field.

B) Kubiak wouldn't give up the reigns to his offense.

C) No one knows the real status of Manning's neck.

D) They call Pay-me Manning for a reason.

Those reasons alone would make Manning a coach-killer like Favre was in his latter years. And for what, three years of service?

thunderkyss
01-30-2012, 08:18 PM
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/files/2012/01/manning.solomon.cropped.jpg-306x204.jpg

Hit the road Jack & don't you come back no moe!!

8 pages of comments....... I think they have what they want.

.

Wolf
01-30-2012, 08:23 PM
D) They call Pay-me-a-ton Manning for a reason.

fixed it for ya :texanbill:

also a little bit of discussion about this subject starting at post 76
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89274&page=4

PapaL
01-30-2012, 08:28 PM
I like Schaub...I'd be fine w Manning coming in.
Manning for Mario? (Cap Wise)
What do we lose on Offense besides that bootleg pass?

DocBar
01-30-2012, 09:03 PM
Sheer lunacy. Cap-wise, team chemistry-wise, any other-wise. We can either go with the players that got us here or bring in fix-a-flat's that will wreck what got us here. ANY undrafted QB is fix-a-flat. If Luck or RGIII falls to us, snap them up. If not, keep on keeping on.

Cjeremy635
01-30-2012, 09:15 PM
I like Schaub...I'd be fine w Manning coming in.
Manning for Mario? (Cap Wise)
What do we lose on Offense besides that bootleg pass?

That bootleg is the reason our offense works so well. I wouldn't get rid of it for anything.

LongTimeLurker
01-30-2012, 09:19 PM
solomon needs to stay away from my threads -_-

Kaiser Toro
01-30-2012, 09:21 PM
Boselli 2: Electric Dumbaloo

Solomon usually has no clue, this time it was just a softball of copy.

Texan_Bill
01-30-2012, 09:36 PM
Boselli 2: Electric Dumbaloo
Solomon usually has no clue, this time it was just a softball of copy.

Brilliant and hilarious!!! Good for you KT to show a comical side1!;)

The only difference is the deal for Boselli also brought us both Gary Walker and Seth Payne... Seth, BTW, does a weekly show on 1560 The Game and STILL refers to the Texans as "Us" and "We" which is kinda cool... Or should I say "KEWL" for the hipsters?

DocBar
01-30-2012, 09:45 PM
That bootleg is the reason our offense works so well. I wouldn't get rid of it for anything.Not even for a laser rocket arm? Shirley, you jest!!!

Grams
01-30-2012, 10:09 PM
LOL

Nobody even knows if he will ever play again. 3 neck surgeries - and you guys complain about Schaub. One hit and he may never walk again.

Until he is cleared to play, it is stupid to even think about getting him.

You want to forfiet the rest of the team to pay him? There goes the no 2 defense as you can't afford to pay him and them. There goes Foster - you will not be able to afford him either.

Sure the Colts won a lot of games, but how many times did they actually make it to the Super Bowl? We can damn close with a 3rd string rookie.

Having Manning does not guarantee a trip to the Super Bowl. The Texans team we have right now without Manning has a better chance of getting there.

Playoffs
01-30-2012, 10:13 PM
Solomon never ceases to amaze me!!

PLEASE Queen Solomon, put the pipe down.

A) Manning wants to call ALL the plays on the field.

B) Kubiak wouldn't give up the reigns to his offense.

C) No one knows the real status of Manning's neck.

D) They call Pay-me Manning for a reason.And Wade is not planning a secret overthrow of the team. :smiliepalm:

PapaL
01-30-2012, 11:07 PM
That bootleg is the reason our offense works so well. I wouldn't get rid of it for anything.

I disagree. The run game and play action is why our offense is so potent, not the bootleg pass to the TE. Manning also has one hell of a play fake...with virtually no run game.

Manning's Arm >>>>>> Schaub's Arm
Manning's Accuracy >>>>>> Schaub's Accuracy

Marcus
01-30-2012, 11:26 PM
A Texans official said Friday the team is confident and all early indications are that Schaub will be 100 percent by the start of next season. There is no guarantee of that.

He is coming off Lisfranc surgery on his foot, an injury from which some players never recover. Three years after that surgery forced him to miss a Patriots Super Bowl victory, Ty Law said he wasn’t 100 percent. Glenn Earl started every game at safety for the Texans in 2006, but he suffered that injury in an exhibition game the next season and never again played in the NFL.

Solomon's article blows chunks, but that part I agree with.

Smithiak would be very foolish if they don't plan on Schaub never returning.

False Start
01-30-2012, 11:53 PM
Jerome Justice must really need hits for his blog.

Brisco_County
01-31-2012, 12:48 AM
Solomon's article blows chunks, but that part I agree with.

Smithiak would be very foolish if they don't plan on Schaub never returning.

Schaub's been very confident in his progress. And he has no reason to fake it-- the starting job is still his.

Unless he thinks Kubiak is tempted to blow up everything he's coached for the past 20 years and break the bank for Manning.

TimeKiller
01-31-2012, 08:57 AM
Hi, my name _________________ and I work for the Houston Chronicle. My goal is to get as many people in an uproar over something that will NEVER happen as possible. You would think since I'm paid to be a journalist I could do something besides write a sensationalized, hypothetical and frankly dumb article. The funny thing is though, 60% of the time it works everytime. People are roaring. I'm getting paid. The Chronicle meanders on....

El Tejano
01-31-2012, 10:11 AM
Solomon's article blows chunks, but that part I agree with.

Smithiak would be very foolish if they don't plan on Schaub never returning.

Me too!

HOU-TEX
01-31-2012, 10:20 AM
Good grief! Manning running boots is laughable.

I can picture his legs being the leg braces Forrest Gump wore that shattered when he wus runnang

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ahWcGWlSZBM/TUhr1h1Ec1I/AAAAAAAABPU/t8Bri83wOq4/s1600/Forrest+Gump+Running+as+Kid+with+Leg+Braces+%2528R un+Forrest+Run%2521%2529.png

Marcus
01-31-2012, 10:27 AM
Schaub's been very confident in his progress. And he has no reason to fake it-- the starting job is still his.

Unless he thinks Kubiak is tempted to blow up everything he's coached for the past 20 years and break the bank for Manning.

I don't care how confident he says he is. He is about to find out how difficult it is to fully recover from a LisFranc. I had LisFranc surgery over two years ago, and I still haven't got all the balance back.

Edit: And FYI, the doc told me it will never feel like a foot again. It's pins and needles with every step I take.

Thorn
01-31-2012, 10:40 AM
The Texans should plan on Schaub not returning, it makes sense for the team. But Manning is not the answer here. If Schaub doesn't come back, they need to draft a QB or else just start Yates and go get some experienced backups again.

Manning is not coming to the Texans. It just isn't happening. I can't believe anyone would give serious thought to that.

Rey
01-31-2012, 10:57 AM
The Texans should plan on Schaub not returning, it makes sense for the team.

How can the team reasonably do that?

If they are planning on Schaub not returning that means they are going to treat Yates as the starting QB or they need to get one in the draft.

Which one of those scenarios make you comfortable heading into next season...

El Tejano
01-31-2012, 11:43 AM
The Texans should plan on Schaub not returning, it makes sense for the team. But Manning is not the answer here. If Schaub doesn't come back, they need to draft a QB or else just start Yates and go get some experienced backups again.

Manning is not coming to the Texans. It just isn't happening. I can't believe anyone would give serious thought to that.

I agree with Thorn all the way. I can see the reasons for bringing him here and man his play action would be hell for defenses, but we aint going after Manning.

However, this article does raise the question about if we need to get more insurance for the QB position. Like the article states, Schaub has had more seasons of being out for a few weeks than he's had healthy seasons.

Yates, although he got tested the best way a rookie could be tested, still doesn't make everyone comfortable and I'm sure after defenses have film on him, things can change for Yates very soon.

I doubt Lienart comes back and if he does, who here feels comfortable about that collar bone?

We can't put alot of money in a QB position through FA because we have our own players to get signed but I'm sure we could pick one up on the cheap. There should be some good late rounders available in this draft too. I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a Case Keenum in the 4th or 5th round. The question is, what other choices are there in FA and (I don't like him but I think his style could work here) Vince Young would be one hell of an insurance policy.

robroy72
01-31-2012, 11:54 AM
Spend the money on a legitimate WR to compliment AJ80.

El Tejano
01-31-2012, 11:59 AM
Spend the money on a legitimate WR to compliment AJ80.

That's true. We all saw how much better Yates played with #80 in the game. #80 with a legitimate threat on the other side makes for a good passing offense period.

beerlover
01-31-2012, 12:03 PM
Unless he is a Texan or there is at least a small percentage of a chance he becomes a Texan, this should be posted under NFL forum. :kubepalm:

BigBull17
01-31-2012, 12:12 PM
That bootleg is the reason our offense works so well. I wouldn't get rid of it for anything.

More athletic, Schaub or Manning? Sun-dial 40 race?

El Tejano
01-31-2012, 12:14 PM
Unless he is a Texan or there is at least a small percentage of a chance he becomes a Texan, this should be posted under NFL forum. :kubepalm:

But it's talking about The Texans and what he would do for our team or not do for our team. It's not just about Manning. Isn't that acceptable?

thunderkyss
01-31-2012, 06:06 PM
How can the team reasonably do that?

If they are planning on Schaub not returning that means they are going to treat Yates as the starting QB or they need to get one in the draft.

Which one of those scenarios make you comfortable heading into next season...

If we're confident Schaub will be healthy some time in 2012 season, We prepare Tj to start the season, wait for Matt to return.

If we're not so confident, we hold on to Leinart, prepare him as the starter, pup list Schaub if he isn't ready to go week 1.

Rey
01-31-2012, 06:57 PM
If we're confident Schaub will be healthy some time in 2012 season, We prepare Tj to start the season, wait for Matt to return.

If we're not so confident, we hold on to Leinart, prepare him as the starter, pup list Schaub if he isn't ready to go week 1.

I can't see them doing that TK...

I don't think Leinart is as bad as a lot of folks do, but despite TJ's ugly performance against the Ravens in the play-offs (and some ugly play during the season), I think he'd get the start over Leinart.

But if they are not confident in Matt coming back I think I'd be more open to Manning or VY or trading up or whatever.....

I like TJ yates a lot though, so I wouldn't be too upset if the job was his.

If TJ was the starter heading into next year I'd expect that he'd be better than this past year. We can win with TJ yates at QB. We've proved that.

How much better he can get and whether or not he can have the offense rolling as good or better than Schaub did is up for much debate....

Corrosion
01-31-2012, 07:54 PM
Solomon is throwing sh!t against the wall to see what sticks (Knowing full well it wont). This article is just something to write during a time where there isnt much to write about concerning the Texans ....


He did this instead of researching the draft or salary cap situation to intelligently speak on Free Agency or the draft. Just goes to show how much suck comes from the Houston Crapical.

Brisco_County
01-31-2012, 09:58 PM
Unless he is a Texan or there is at least a small percentage of a chance he becomes a Texan, this should be posted under NFL forum. :kubepalm:

I know what the catagories are. The thread is posted correctly.

Brisco_County
01-31-2012, 10:10 PM
I don't care how confident he says he is. He is about to find out how difficult it is to fully recover from a LisFranc. I had LisFranc surgery over two years ago, and I still haven't got all the balance back.

Edit: And FYI, the doc told me it will never feel like a foot again. It's pins and needles with every step I take.

Sorry to hear about your foot. Are you the one that Cloak gave a referral to?

I was not aware that it affected balance. I figured it was more of a support or strength problem.

Marcus
02-01-2012, 01:53 AM
Sorry to hear about your foot. Are you the one that Cloak gave a referral to?

I was not aware that it affected balance. I figured it was more of a support or strength problem.

If it wasn't for Cloak, I'd probably still be walking with a limp. I almost let the wrong doctor work on my foot. I found another one that Cloak approved of, but the damage was severe. The 2nd metatarsal was shattered, which completely ruptured the LisFranc ligament, plus avulsion fractures. The doc put in 2 plates and 12 screws to create a scaffold. He debrided all the bone fragments, and mixed them with a bone graft taken from my heel, and packed all the soft bone inside the scaffold, and then fused the joints in two places.

The plates and screws are still in there. The entire scaffold has calcified into solid bone, which was his intention. He told me I would eventually be able walk normally again, but it would take a long rehab, and it would never feel like the same foot ever again.

The problem with having a cast on your foot with no weight bearing for such a long time, causes the entire leg to atrophy. Schaub will need to completely get all of his foot strength back to match the other one.

Trying standing on one foot, with the other one up in the air. Notice how much your foot wiggles back and forth and side to side in order to keep from falling over. That's the balance that I'm referring to. If you don't any strength in the foot, you can't balance your weight on it.

Now, imagine that weakened foot with little balance is the plant foot of a QB, and how that would effect throwing accuracy?

ObsiWan
02-01-2012, 02:43 AM
The Texans should plan on Schaub not returning, it makes sense for the team. But Manning is not the answer here. If Schaub doesn't come back, they need to draft a QB or else just start Yates and go get some experienced backups again.

Manning is not coming to the Texans. It just isn't happening. I can't believe anyone would give serious thought to that.

How can the team reasonably do that?

If they are planning on Schaub not returning that means they are going to treat Yates as the starting QB or they need to get one in the draft.

Which one of those scenarios make you comfortable heading into next season...

If we're confident Schaub will be healthy some time in 2012 season, We prepare Tj to start the season, wait for Matt to return.

If we're not so confident, we hold on to Leinart, prepare him as the starter, pup list Schaub if he isn't ready to go week 1.

I'll probably get pummelled for this but I'd bring Cajun Boy (Delhomme) back to compete with Capt. Checkdown (Leinart) if it became evident that Schaub won't be 100% by the end of OTAs.

We can't wait until camp is over to make this call. Whoever is ready at the end of OTAs goes into camp as the #1. Only Schaub is proficient enough in this offense to miss camp and still start the season. And even he will likely need preseason to shake the rust off.

Yates was too easily fooled by the disguised defenses he saw in the playoffs for my money. And don't think other teams won't have that "tape" on him. Everyone we face would try to confuse & abuse him in the same fashion. He would have to have a helluva preseason to demonstrate that he has acquired the experience and poise required to sit for Schaub until he gets back to 100%.

As for Manning being here...? I think if he's not healthy enough (or affordable enough) to be a Colt; he should retire. There has been medical opinions/speculation that his arm strength ain't what it used to be and may never be what it was. I found this paragraph from a Huffington Post article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/31/peyton-manning-colts-injuries-career-over-report_n_1244439.html) interesting....
Citing two sources with knowledge of Manning's rehabilitation from neck surgery (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/08/peyton-manning-injury-neck-surgery_n_954391.html), Cole reports that Manning's efforts to rebuild his arm strength (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-cole_peyton_manning_colts_neck_surgery_jim_irsay01 3012) since his most recent surgery have plateaued and it remains unclear if he'll ever be able to throw with the velocity necessary to play in the NFL. On Dec. 1, the Colts announced that Manning would be increasing the intensity of his workouts (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/01/peyton-manning-update-doctor-neck-colts-nfl-injury_n_1124573.html) and that the fusion surgery on Manning's neck had achieved "firm fixation."

Sorry, but bringing Manning to the Texans under these circumstances sounds like the Tony Boselli drama all over again.

Nooooo thanks.

thunderkyss
02-01-2012, 10:14 AM
...but the damage was severe. The 2nd metatarsal was shattered, which completely ruptured the LisFranc ligament, plus avulsion fractures. The doc put in 2 plates and 12 screws to create a scaffold. He debrided all the bone fragments, and mixed them with a bone graft taken from my heel, and packed all the soft bone inside the scaffold, and then fused the joints in two places.


this is nothing at all like Matt Schaub's injury. I wonder how much your experience with recovery is relevant to what's going on with Matt.

The1ApplePie
02-01-2012, 11:00 AM
Fragile Mattie ain't a franchise QB but no way the Texans would ever take in Peyton.

A few average QBs like Matt Cassell (if KC keeps Orton) or Jason Campbell might be realistic options.

Then again, so could Sexy Rexy:kubepalm:

2012Champs
02-01-2012, 12:05 PM
LOL

Nobody even knows if he will ever play again. 3 neck surgeries - and you guys complain about Schaub. One hit and he may never walk again.

Until he is cleared to play, it is stupid to even think about getting him.

You want to forfiet the rest of the team to pay him? There goes the no 2 defense as you can't afford to pay him and them. There goes Foster - you will not be able to afford him either.

Sure the Colts won a lot of games, but how many times did they actually make it to the Super Bowl? We can damn close with a 3rd string rookie.

Having Manning does not guarantee a trip to the Super Bowl. The Texans team we have right now without Manning has a better chance of getting there.


Im not sure you have paid much attention to the surgeries he has had or why he went out in the first place but he is at no more risk of not being able to walk again than any other player from getting hit

jaayteetx
02-01-2012, 12:54 PM
I'm not saying this is the dumbest thread ever, but its a contender.

welsh texan
02-01-2012, 01:08 PM
One thought that springs from all this, how bad is Mannings agent to have negotiated that contract now? At the time Manning could easily have held out for more security than the Colts just being able to walk away at this stage, no way they'd have been able to bank on Luck falling straight into their lap and cutting him loose after just one season.

Mr teX
02-01-2012, 01:41 PM
He'll almost certainly be on the FA market as the colts would be idiotic to pay that 28 million when they still don't know anything; so that's not an issue imo........But there is the tiny little issue of HIM EVER BEING ABLE TO PLAY AGAIN WITH HOW HIS NECK HAS BEEN SLOW TO HEAL!!!!

The last thing we need right now, on the cusp of taking over this division, is to get bogged down with another Tony Boselli fiasco.

Blake
02-01-2012, 01:53 PM
Solomon: If Lucifer on market, Team Jesus should be first in line.

leebigeztx
02-01-2012, 02:46 PM
I disagree. The run game and play action is why our offense is so potent, not the bootleg pass to the TE. Manning also has one hell of a play fake...with virtually no run game.

Manning's Arm >>>>>> Schaub's Arm
Manning's Accuracy >>>>>> Schaub's Accuracy

This is it in a nutshell. The reason why the texans run the playaction boot is because shaub is terrible when players are at his feet. He needs a perfect pocket to be effective, we all know that. The only problem I have is head,neck,or back. When dealing with those 3, its a crapshoot. In terms of the player, manning is better and will be better the next 3 yrs imo. Schaub is a manufactored kubiak production. Just from what I know about that injury, I don't think schaub will be back until mid season. The people who say that injury isnt bad for a non athletic guy is just wrong.

silvrhand
02-01-2012, 03:01 PM
Sorry if we were able to find an non cap killer way to get Manning on board, and he wanted to come here to be part of the Texans I can't believe you don't take a chance on it.

How many times has Peyton killed us again and again.. I'd like to be on the other end of that for a while :)

Norg
02-01-2012, 05:45 PM
Well has crazy has it might seem i been wondering this will schaub ever be the same from this foot injury will he be 100%. Come week 1. If peyton is 100% i say we make a bid cor him because lets face it peyton or schaub will only be our qb for two more years max maybe. After fhat im pretty sure the plan is to make tj yates the starter

Norg
02-01-2012, 05:48 PM
Let me ask u this what is te current situation on schaubs foot is he getting better is he goong to miss all of otas and tranning camp if thats the case why the heck not go for peyton

badboy
02-02-2012, 11:34 PM
I'd start TJ Yates with AJ and our two new WR draft picks and allow Schaub to heal During the season, I whisper "Matt, time to agree to a team friendly new contract for 2013. I see in my crystal ball a high draft pick in 2013 going for a QB. Oh there will not be a good in late first. Sorry. We luvs you Matty.

Double Barrel
02-03-2012, 12:08 PM
It's obvious Solomon's blog was getting very little love, so he has to write this tripe in an attempt for some attention.

HOU-TEX
02-03-2012, 12:22 PM
It's obvious Solomon's blog was getting very little love, so he has to write this tripe in an attempt for some attention.

Maybe it's an attempt to reel in all Dick's followers?

Commodore
02-04-2012, 08:23 PM
Ok I'll make the case for Manning.

Washington and Miami and NYJ are not ready to contend right now (plus they are in very competitive divisions), and Peyton doesn't have time to hope they get better. Does he want to bounce around like Favre? If it's about getting a ring and not a max contract, Texans are a perfect fit.

Great play action offense for the best play action passer in the game, great defense, stars at offensive skill positions, good O-line to protect an older immobile QB. Not to mention a weak, familiar division and he gets to go against Luck twice (i.e. motivation to prove something). Plus we could get at least a 1st round pick for Schaub. That's a great asset considering how well we draft.

But we can't risk signing Manning without his arm back to full strength. To me that's a relatively easy thing to observe (no more risky than relying on Schaub's foot). If you can see him throw at a high level before signing, the risk is probably worth it.

As for the Texans being interested, Manning's star power gets us on national TV and puts fans in the seats.

PapaL
02-04-2012, 09:08 PM
Schaub wasn't worth a 1st when he was Vick's backup, he's not worth a 1st now coming off a foot injury.

Commodore
02-05-2012, 12:22 PM
AdamSchefter Adam Schefter
Peyton Manning is willing to create a contract that would contain no guaranteed money up front and would be incentive laden with bonuses.

ObsiWan
02-05-2012, 12:32 PM
Ok I'll make the case for Manning.
Edit: Never mind

Lucky
02-05-2012, 01:32 PM
Ok I'll make the case for Manning.


As for the Texans being interested, Manning's star power gets us on national TV and puts fans in the seats.

I'll make the case against Manning.

1) The Texans aren't offering Peyton a contract.
2) See #1.

Btw, the Texans sell out Reliant for every game. Including preseason.

Commodore
02-05-2012, 01:49 PM
I'll make the case against Manning.

1) The Texans aren't offering Peyton a contract.
2) See #1.

1) The case against signing Manning is they aren't signing Manning? Lame

Btw, the Texans sell out Reliant for every game. Including preseason.

Well fine, but you can't argue that having Peyton Manning would not be a revenue boon to the organization (at least in the near term).

It's like saying, "we already have Kyle Lowry, we don't need CP3".

Lucky
02-05-2012, 02:00 PM
1) The case against signing Manning is they aren't signing Manning? Lame



Well fine, but you can't argue that having Peyton Manning would not be a revenue boon to the organization (at least in the near term).

It's like saying, "we already have Kyle Lowry, we don't need CP3".

This thread is the definition of lame. And I did argue (successfully) that Peyton would not have an impact on revenue. You just weren't paying attention.

Peyton Manning isn't signing with the Houston Texans. Everything else in this thread is blah, blah, blah.

PapaL
02-05-2012, 02:17 PM
This thread is the definition of lame. And I did argue (successfully) that Peyton would not have an impact on revenue. You just weren't paying attention.

Peyton Manning isn't signing with the Houston Texans. Everything else in this thread is blah, blah, blah.

Considering our offseason has already started its going to be nothing but blah blah blah. Did you expect game film break down?

DX-TEX
02-05-2012, 02:48 PM
AdamSchefter Adam Schefter
Peyton Manning is willing to create a contract that would contain no guaranteed money up front and would be incentive laden with bonuses.

Im telling you now: Peyton wants hardware at this point. He will sign with a contending team for minimal base salary. I honestly believe when he gets his official release HE will contact teams not the other way around. I think he will inquire about Schaubs health and recovery.

PapaL
02-05-2012, 02:50 PM
Im telling you now: Peyton wants hardware at this point. He will sign with a contending team for minimal base salary. I honestly believe when he gets his official release HE will contact teams not the other way around. I think he will inquire about Schaubs health and recovery.

Especially considering his little brother or his arch-rival will be getting one more ring tonight.

Mr teX
02-05-2012, 02:55 PM
Im telling you now: Peyton wants hardware at this point. He will sign with a contending team for minimal base salary. I honestly believe when he gets his official release HE will contact teams not the other way around. I think he will inquire about Schaubs health and recovery.

cmon man, he's not going to have to do that, teams who feel they are close will be jumping at the chance to sign him. i watched a little espn this morning & they interviewed him...he said he be willing to play primarily on an incentive based contract...if he's willing to do that, he'll have no problems recieving offers from the likes of the jets, broncos & redskins.

Commodore
02-05-2012, 03:03 PM
cmon man, he's not going to have to do that, teams who feel they are close will be jumping at the chance to sign him. i watched a little espn this morning & they interviewed him...he said he be willing to play primarily on an incentive based contract...if he's willing to do that, he'll have no problems recieving offers from the likes of the jets, broncos & redskins.

Or just about any other team in the league without a top 5 QB. That's the whole point of saying he'll play for a smaller contract.

TEXANRED
02-05-2012, 03:15 PM
Im telling you now: Peyton wants hardware at this point. He will sign with a contending team for minimal base salary. I honestly believe when he gets his official release HE will contact teams not the other way around. I think he will inquire about Schaubs health and recovery.

No way Manning gets released. The Colts want to control were he goes and they would probably take a 7th rounder from Tampa Bay before letting him go off and play for an AFC South rival.

And once he does get released doesn't he have to clear waivers first?

DX-TEX
02-05-2012, 03:20 PM
No way Manning gets released. The Colts want to control were he goes and they would probably take a 7th rounder from Tampa Bay before letting him go off and play for an AFC South rival.

And once he does get released doesn't he have to clear waivers first?

And what if no one bites? The Colts are stuck with a QB issue that costs them 25 million against the cap

Manning holds ALL the cards in that scenario.

DX-TEX
02-05-2012, 03:22 PM
cmon man, he's not going to have to do that, teams who feel they are close will be jumping at the chance to sign him. i watched a little espn this morning & they interviewed him...he said he be willing to play primarily on an incentive based contract...if he's willing to do that, he'll have no problems recieving offers from the likes of the jets, broncos & redskins.

Yeah but those teams are not ANYWHERE near Superbowl caliber.

Dolphins, Jets, redskins......lol He will make the decision and go where HE wants to. Bottom Line.

TEXANRED
02-05-2012, 03:27 PM
And what if no one bites? The Colts are stuck with a QB issue that costs them 25 million against the cap

Manning holds ALL the cards in that scenario.

I think some team out there would gladly pony up a 7 for Manning. Even if somebody doesn't he would have to clear waivers and what team would let Manning slip through that crack?

All I am saying is I would be shocked if Manning hits the open market. Remember how TB picked up Jake Plummer off waivers so Jake just retired? Something like that could happen to Manning. The Dolphins pick him up so he calls it a day.

gary
02-05-2012, 03:33 PM
Jets sign Manning and trade Sanchez I call it..

TEXANRED
02-05-2012, 03:36 PM
Jets sign Manning and trade Sanchez I call it..

Who would waist a draft pick on Sanchez?

I will give the Jets a half eaten hot dog and the rights to Ron Dane for Mark Sanchez.

I also think if the Colts do trade Manning he will be traded out of the AFC and traded to a team the Colts do not play this year.

Commodore
02-05-2012, 03:43 PM
And once he does get released doesn't he have to clear waivers first?

On the BS report Schefter said he can sign the minute after he is cut

gary
02-05-2012, 03:46 PM
Who would waist a draft pick on Sanchez?

I will give the Jets a half eaten hot dog and the rights to Ron Dane for Mark Sanchez.

I also think if the Colts do trade Manning he will be traded out of the AFC and traded to a team the Colts do not play this year.I said cut Manning not trade him which means he would be free to sign on his own.

thunderkyss
02-05-2012, 04:11 PM
On the BS report Schefter said he can sign the minute after he is cut

Anyone signing Manning before a physical is gambling.....

Lucky
02-05-2012, 05:42 PM
Considering our offseason has already started its going to be nothing but blah blah blah. Did you expect game film break down?

Something better than this drivel. I would have jettisoned this to the nfl forum, but I can't on this tablet. Really, this makes our fanbase look as stupid as Solomon.

PapaL
02-05-2012, 06:38 PM
No way Manning gets released. The Colts want to control were he goes and they would probably take a 7th rounder from Tampa Bay before letting him go off and play for an AFC South rival.

And once he does get released doesn't he have to clear waivers first?

Negative. He is an expiring contract, he doesn't have to clear waivers. Had he been under contract then he would have to clear waivers. In this case he is free to sign wherever he wishes.

Commodore
02-05-2012, 10:03 PM
now that Eli has more rings, Peyton will be looking for the surest thing to match him

I predict he will reach out to the Texans

TEXANRED
02-05-2012, 10:16 PM
Negative. He is an expiring contract, he doesn't have to clear waivers. Had he been under contract then he would have to clear waivers. In this case he is free to sign wherever he wishes.
Then I am confused because I thought that Manning just inked a 5 year $90 million dollar contract. He still has another 4 years left.

Norg
02-05-2012, 11:18 PM
and begin the Peyton Watch :kitten: its Off season

ChampionTexan
02-06-2012, 12:01 AM
Then I am confused because I thought that Manning just inked a 5 year $90 million dollar contract. He still has another 4 years left.

He did just sign a contract, and would therefore not be an expiring contract. The reason he wouldn't have to go through waivers is because he is a vested player (four or more years of service), and vested players waived after February 1 and before the trade deadline don't go through the waiver process - they become UFA's immediately.

The reason this it is highly unlikely that he will be traded is because Peyton has a $28 Million roster bonus due March 8th. This is prior to the date that NFL teams can trade players. If the Colts wait to trade him, they'll have to pay the $28 Million bonus, then eat that entire amount as part of the 2012 cap when they trade him. If they pay the bonus and keep him, it likely counts $7 Million against the cap in the upcoming year.

It's possible that Peyton could agree to restructure to make himself more tradeable, but since that could cost him money, and would cost him control, it's probably not very likely.

PapaL
02-06-2012, 06:39 AM
I stand corrected. My bad.

b0ng
02-07-2012, 01:27 PM
Something better than this drivel. I would have jettisoned this to the nfl forum, but I can't on this tablet. Really, this makes our fanbase look as stupid as Solomon.

Don't ever listen to any sports radio station in Houston ever then if you can't stand Hostonians and Houston fans making themselves look like idiots.

This meme of "Manning to the Texans" is popping up a lot on all the dials (Well, I don't listen to 97.5 as often as I like) and more than enough asinine phone calls are about how ditching Schaub for Manning is totally worth it because Super Bowl here we come.

I don't believe the Texans need to see themselves in a "win now" sort of mode where you are ready to mortgage your future for the present. If the brain trust thinks we need a QB, I don't see a big problem with taking a QB you like in the draft and just have him learn behind Yates for the last year of Schaub's contract.

I don't know if cutting Schaub before March 1st would draw dead money on to the cap, but I don't think Manning is going to play unless some team pays him quite a bit of money. He still hasn't been released by the Colts, so I think all of this conversation on the airwaves, on this forum, or anywhere else is strictly premature and a gigantic waste of time. Couple that with the fact that Peyton Manning and Gary Kubiak might not be a "fit". How are you going to pay money to Peyton Manning while he plays for a coach who obviously does not give his QB's much leeway to change stuff right before the ball is snapped?

GP
02-07-2012, 02:12 PM
Schefter reports that “Manning is completely open to creating a contract in which he would be paid little or no guaranteed money up front and he would have to earn every cent he makes strictly through performance, according to sources.”

Such a structure will put a new team at ease, as it dissipates the risk of paying big dollars up front and then finding that Manning is unable to play because insufficient nerve regeneration leaves him unable to throw the way he needs to.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, for what it's worth.

THE SITUATION:
Schaub is in his last year of contract in 2012. Look, I don't care if his rehab is going as planned. I don't care, as well, that he is motivated and he says he will be back and ready to go. That just means there's not a significant setback needing more surgery, etc. It doesn't mean he enters 2012 fully capable of being a starting NFL Qb in week 1 of the reg season.

Marcus says your leg atrophies over that period of time when you can't put weight on the affected limb. And it's his PLANT leg, by the way. The one he pushes off on. Unless he is Super Man, he isn't playing until midway through the season. Period. We were told, by CND, IIRC, that this is easily a 12-month scenario from the time Fat Albert injured it to the time he can ADEQUATELY be a competent, fully functioning NFL QB on the field in a real game. That means midway through the season, at best.

THE CURRENT PROJECTION:
Yates will be the starter during week 1 of reg season. He will be the guy in camp, pre-season, and in week 1 of reg season. IF the projections are true.

THE OPPORTUNITY:
IF Peyton Manning is genuine about his desire to build his contract with his new team, as reports have stated, I don't know how Gary Kubiak doesn't reach out to him. Go watch him throw a ball to some college wide receivers from a small Division 2 team in some indoor practice facility on a Tuesday night at 10:00 pm. See if he can put some zip on those passes. Can he drive that pass deep and accurately, consistently.

And then you say to #18, "Look, ya' know...we want to try and bring you in for 1 year and build the incentives that we think are fair to you and allow you to take 2012 with us and see what happens. You hit your incentives, then we'll trigger in the bonus money and build in a 2nd year, as part of the contract, so that we can roll this thing into year 2 and see where it goes."

THE REASON:
I don't care about the jokes about how he is not mobile. Matt Schaub is not mobile. So that argument is nullified. Period. IF his arm is reliable, and if he can go through an intense practice session where he makes all the throws and does so for a long period of time, then that's all you need to know. Because the guy will not be on his ass as a Texans QB. Our run game, our pass blocking, and our defense, and the resilience of this whole team is EXACTLY what you pair up with a gamer like #18. At least for this year, maybe in 2013 too.

Schaub will not be back until midway through 2012, so why not take the 1-year flier on #18, let Yates watch like most young QBs in his position would be doing anyways? If Schaub doesn't like it, then he needs to change careers. It's business. He has a SERIOUS mobility issue now, and he wasn't mobile to begin with. Guys try to come back form this injury, but they never fully make it all the way back. I believe Glenn Earl (former Texans secondary player) suffered this injury and he tried to come back. Done. Ty Law of the Patriots had the same injury and tried to come back a year later, as well. Nope, he was done.

--------------

CONCLUSION:
Peyton Manning will be able to choose his team and he's going to have about 20 or 25 teams reaching out to him. The Texans should be one of them. Solomon is not crazy on this one. If you can get #18 at a low financial risk, and you're as close to the Super Bowl as we are, you are crazy to not watch the guy throw the ball and shake his hand and ask him if he's interested in us.

This is, of course, IF he is serious about heavily-laden incentives that limit risk to a team's cap situation. And this is, of course, IF he is not just merely "cleared to play" but can actually make all the throws and do it consistently for a long period of time.

The guy approaches the LOS and makes, usually, the right read pre-snap and goes to the right spot in the midst of the play unfolding in front of him. He's accurate. What else do you want? It allows you to go after WR and TE in the draft and get him the types of guys he likes to work with, too.

I think it'd be a helluva' deal, actually. Major problem/sticking point is his desire to be in control of playcalling. THAT is probably the dagger through the heart of any speculation about #18 landing in Houston.

b0ng
02-07-2012, 02:17 PM
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, for what it's worth.



Well that pretty much destroys what I think of him playing for a hefty fee. If you can get a Peyton Manning for a cheap contract it's worth thinking about. I'm not convinced Kubiak would be able to sell Manning on the Kubiak system and him (Kubiak) probably having final decision on what play gets executed when the ball is snapped.

Who knows though, if Manning is willing to play entirely for escalators with no guarantees then why not take a look at him.

Rey
02-07-2012, 02:19 PM
I think it'd be a helluva' deal, actually. Major problem/sticking point is his desire to be in control of playcalling. THAT is probably the dagger through the heart of any speculation about #18 landing in Houston.

Manning gets three plays called and he chooses the best one based on what the defense is in.

He's not just up at the line drawing stuff up in the dirt.

Rey
02-07-2012, 02:21 PM
Well that pretty much destroys what I think of him playing for a hefty fee. If you can get a Peyton Manning for a cheap contract it's worth thinking about. I'm not convinced Kubiak would be able to sell Manning on the Kubiak system and him (Kubiak) probably having final decision on what play gets executed when the ball is snapped.

Who knows though, if Manning is willing to play entirely for escalators with no guarantees then why not take a look at him.

This has been my opinion all along and I never thought he'd sign a big contract again...

That made no sense and he knows that makes no sense.

b0ng
02-07-2012, 02:28 PM
This has been my opinion all along and I never thought he'd sign a big contract again...

That made no sense and he knows that makes no sense.

There will be a bidding war over his services, don't think there won't be. Any contract he signs with a team will be based on him passing a physical and that team being okay with what he can accomplish.

He'll "play" for a contract like that, but somebody will pony up more dough than what I would be comfortable than the Texans giving out to sign Peyton Manning if he is not a Colt in 2012.

GP
02-07-2012, 02:35 PM
Yep, IF IF IF he is dead-dog serious about wanting to play for the chance to prove people wrong, to win a ring again, and be a gamer....the Houston Texans represent a very attractive landing spot for him.

I mean, why is Miami the sexy pick right now? He would still have to play in cold weather vs. Bills, Jets, and Patriots. Other than Brandon Marshall, the Dolphins have zilch for him to work with...except that decoy guy at RB. I suppose Florida having no state income tax is a plus. But so is Texas!

This team has as much upside and momentum as any team he could land with. It had everything, IMO, to win the Super Bowl except the injury to Schaub derailed it. And the injury to AJ. Our defense KILLED IT all year long, even without Mario Williams. This team is as complete as any team #18 has ever QB'd before.

I think you let Mario walk, sign #18 to a friendly contract, and make a run at Reggie Wayne. Take BPA in the draft and have multiple orgasms with every pick we make in the draft....because you'd know that we upgraded WR, without giving up draft picks for some guy like Blackmon, and you got at least 1 year to see if #18 can give you 3 to 4 years of QB play with the weapons of Foster, Tate, AJ, Wayne, Daniels, Dreessen, Walter, Casey, Lestar Jean. DAMN!!! And that's not even looking at who we'd draft in 2012 either.

Tell me #18 wouldn't like to snag Reggie Wayne, play for the Texans, and shove it to Irsay for the next four years while they try to get Andrew Luck up and running. Thanks for the memories, Jim Irsay!

Dutchrudder
02-07-2012, 02:43 PM
Peyton to the 49ers makes sense to me. They can re-sign Alex Smith for relatively cheap, since he won't be sought after in free agency, and sign Peyton to his 'incentive laden deal'. They have tons of capspace to get it done, and if Peyton doesn't work out, Smith is a decently capable starter. Low risk, potentially high reward. It's not much risk for them because they have lots of flexibility with their cap room, the Texans do not.

In the Texans' case it's either Schaub or Peyton, and if the Texans go after Peyton, they will likely lose other free agents in the process too. It's just not a good situation given the uncertainty of Manning's neck. Stick with Schaub, Yates and Lienart/Draft pick, plus re-sign the core guys that made us a playoff contender this year. We will be better off over the next few years that way and for years to come.

infantrycak
02-07-2012, 02:43 PM
Manning gets three plays called and he chooses the best one based on what the defense is in.

He's not just up at the line drawing stuff up in the dirt.

Exactly. Not sure why people can't get this.

This has been my opinion all along and I never thought he'd sign a big contract again...

That made no sense and he knows that makes no sense.

I think he is going to play chicken for the $28 mil. Then he will sign a contract much smaller guaranteed but still very big potentially with another team. I can't see it being with the Texans.

b0ng
02-07-2012, 02:45 PM
Yep, IF IF IF he is dead-dog serious about wanting to play for the chance to prove people wrong, to win a ring again, and be a gamer....the Houston Texans represent a very attractive landing spot for him.

I mean, why is Miami the sexy pick right now? !



Miami would let him do whatever he wanted and have a defense that is better than most of the Colts teams he played with. I doubt Gary Kubiak would be a coach that he thinks he could work with enough to implement what Peyton Manning wants to do on offense.

Gotta remember that he's probably looking at competitiveness of the team, compatibility with the coaching staff, and the money. I'm sure Peyton wouldn't turn down a guarantee laden contract just to prove he is worth it by playing for escalators.

b0ng
02-07-2012, 02:50 PM
Exactly. Not sure why people can't get this.


The situation Rey described is way more versatility with playcalling than Gary Kubiak has ever shown he allows a QB.

GP
02-07-2012, 02:51 PM
You know who might be drinking heavily over the next few weeks, waiting for March deadline to arrive, to see if he can get Peyton Manning???

Skeletor.

I think he's ready to pull the rug out from underneath Tony Romo. It's gone nowhere for years and years. He has a stadium and a fan base to feed. He has a RB now, potentially, and he has Dez Bryant and a couple other good WRs. He has Witten.

Yeah, I think I can foresee the day coming when Jerry Jones throws all his chips into the pile for #18. Garrett won't give a crap. "Whatever you want, boss man." And he'll just let Manning do his thing.

Can you see it? #18 with an iconic Cowboys star on the side of his helmet? He'll try to get it done before the NFL schedules it's prime time game lineup with SNF and MNF. Because that'd make NBC and ESPN go goo-goo gaga to get the Cowboys games in 2012. Jerry is like that, man.

Double Barrel
02-07-2012, 03:37 PM
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, for what it's worth.


Your scenario is actually very interesting and in my perspective, even plausible.

With regards to potential teams, I think NFC teams are unlikely as Archie wants to see a Manning vs. Manning Super Bowl. So let's just theoretically take the NFC out of the picture.

I'm not sure facing Brady/Patriots twice a season in the same division on a weaker team is going to interest him. Certainly not the Jets with the New York media, and Miami is transitioning right now so lots of instability.

The AFC west is possible simply because the division is so freakin' weak. But who? The Chargers are set, so maybe the Broncos? Great defense, but with the publics mancrush on Tebow, I do not see the Denver front office rocking that boat with high priced QB.

AFC North? I don't think Manning would dig the weather, and what team? The Browns are the only team without a franchise QB, and I have no doubt he's not interesting in Cleveland.

So that leaves the AFC south, where Peyton is right at home. The Texans are about as plug & play for an elite QB as anyone in the league. Manning to Johnson??! That's highlight potential right there. Then add in Daniels, Dreesen, and a solid #2 WR, along with the Foster/Tate combo? Plus, our defense is built to protect a lead, where they can pin their ears in a pass rush and really take advantage of early leads like Peyton often builds.

I said earlier in this thread that this blog was tripe, but maybe I was just jumping to conclusions due to rooting against Manning for so long, not really liking Solomon, and never getting my hopes up based upon pipe dreams.

But, if the opportunity knocks, would I be upset to see Manning on our sideline? Not if it means what I think it could mean in the big picture.

Dutchrudder
02-07-2012, 04:00 PM
The AFC west is possible simply because the division is so freakin' weak. But who? The Chargers are set, so maybe the Broncos? Great defense, but with the publics mancrush on Tebow, I do not see the Denver front office rocking that boat with high priced QB.


The Chiefs can pretty much cut Cassel without paying more than a million or two to him, so there is room for him to go there. Cassel is due only 6 mill next year (per sportrac), so they could keep him as a contingency for a relatively cheap amount (similar to the Alex Smith deal I proposed). The big question though, "is the rest of the team up to task to compete for a Super Bowl?"

They can franchise tag Bowe so he's not going anywhere, and have plenty of money to sign some free agents like Wayne and a #2 RB to backup JC or pickup Dallas Clark if released. Then they can spend that #11 pick on O-line to protect their Peyton investment. Peyton with starting WRs of Bowe, Wayne, Breaston in the slot and Jonathan Baldwin would be pretty sweet. Man, that would be a potent offense right there, assuming Manning stays healthy and they improve the O-line.

Rey
02-07-2012, 04:28 PM
There will be a bidding war over his services, don't think there won't be. Any contract he signs with a team will be based on him passing a physical and that team being okay with what he can accomplish.

He'll "play" for a contract like that, but somebody will pony up more dough than what I would be comfortable than the Texans giving out to sign Peyton Manning if he is not a Colt in 2012.

If the contract is incentive laden then then it doesn't matter as much. That was my point.

There will be no bidding war because he's not going to go to the team that bids the most. He has plenty of money. He will go to the team that he likes the best.

Dutchrudder
02-07-2012, 04:32 PM
If the contract is incentive laden then then it doesn't matter as much. That was my point.

There will be no bidding war because he's not going to go to the team that bids the most. He has plenty of money. He will go to the team that he likes the best.

The problem for the team is that if they give him an incentive based deal for up to 20 mill and he earns it, whatever amount they go over the 2012 cap counts against their 2013 cap. So the team that signs him will have to worry about that, or be ready to purge some money next year.

Rey
02-07-2012, 04:35 PM
I think he is going to play chicken for the $28 mil. Then he will sign a contract much smaller guaranteed but still very big potentially with another team. I can't see it being with the Texans.

Honestly, I don't think it's likely...

But it's nice to imagine letting Mario walk, Cutting Schaub (I'm not a cap guy...I don't know how much that saves if any) and possibly picking up Reggie Wayne...

That would immediately make us legit superbowl contenders...

Probably not going to happen, but hey...:bender:

Rey
02-07-2012, 04:39 PM
The problem for the team is that if they give him an incentive based deal for up to 20 mill and he earns it, whatever amount they go over the 2012 cap counts against their 2013 cap. So the team that signs him will have to worry about that, or be ready to purge some money next year.

I understand that, but we are talking about bringing a Lombardi to Houston...

Yes, the team has to be fiscally responsible. I get that. But when you have a legit shot at going to the superbowl I say shoot for it. If you are in a tight spot next year then we will have to deal with it. That is a risk I'd be willing to take.

I doubt the Texans will do this at the end of the day, but I'm just saying that I would...

2012Champs
02-07-2012, 04:41 PM
If Manning is cut and you are the texans you should at the very least see what manning would want.

Texn4life
02-07-2012, 04:54 PM
Its not as far fetched as most people think. I believe the Texans will make contact and see exactly how much interest he has in wanting to play for the Texans. Someone mentioned a contract given to him for percentage of snaps played during the season with each 10 percent of snaps he plays he's guaranteed so much money. Something along the lines of 1.5 million for every 10 percent so if he plays 100% of the snaps he gets 15 million. Again, I'm not saying this is what the Texans should offer, but I think any team that signs him this format would make sense on both fronts.

The issue of Manning being able to not get along with Kubiak is silly to me. Both of these guys are really good offensive minds and I think Kubiak would love to have a film/practice rat like Manning running his offense. Both of these guys want to win to cement their legacy. Kubiak being the first coach to bring a Super Bowl to Houston and Manning getting a few more to leave no doubt about his status as an all-time great. They would find a way to make it work if that's what both sides decided to do.

If Manning is looking to win now, San Francisco and Houston make the most sense. Both have great defenses and strong running games. Houston I think has and with a few off-season will definitely have more offensive weapons to his liking.

Double Barrel
02-07-2012, 07:20 PM
The Chiefs can pretty much cut Cassel without paying more than a million or two to him, so there is room for him to go there. Cassel is due only 6 mill next year (per sportrac), so they could keep him as a contingency for a relatively cheap amount (similar to the Alex Smith deal I proposed). The big question though, "is the rest of the team up to task to compete for a Super Bowl?"

They can franchise tag Bowe so he's not going anywhere, and have plenty of money to sign some free agents like Wayne and a #2 RB to backup JC or pickup Dallas Clark if released. Then they can spend that #11 pick on O-line to protect their Peyton investment. Peyton with starting WRs of Bowe, Wayne, Breaston in the slot and Jonathan Baldwin would be pretty sweet. Man, that would be a potent offense right there, assuming Manning stays healthy and they improve the O-line.

I thought about the Chiefs, but they still seem 2-3 years away to build a contender.

I think if Manning were to look for another team he will be looking for a team that has the potential to make a run in 2012. He's too old to rebuild, which is why I think he's out in Indy. If he's able to play, how many more years with that neck? 2? Maybe 3? He's got a find a team that is plug & play ready for him. The Texans are on the short list in that regard.

I do not think it will happen, though, but it is fun to speculate.

And how weird would it be to root for Peyton Manning after so many years?

ObsiWan
02-07-2012, 07:48 PM
Your scenario is actually very interesting and in my perspective, even plausible.

The AFC west is possible simply because the division is so freakin' weak. But who? The Chargers are set, so maybe the Broncos? Great defense, but with the publics mancrush on Tebow, I do not see the Denver front office rocking that boat with high priced QB.



I think this is more plausible than you're thinking.

If there's anyone that the Tebow fanboys would shut up for it would be the addition of a future HoF'er like Manning. They would realize that Manning would only be there a couple of years and make them competitive and relevant during that time. And Manning has the chops and resume' to take any heat the hardcore Tebow-ites could dish out.

The fanbase would have to know that there's no better teacher for their boy Tebow to learn from for those two years than Manning??


And Elway would HAVE to be elated with someone under center that actually knows how to be a traditional - and effective - QB.

The only snag I see is whether Manning is willing to play outside in the cold. ...especially after being indoors the last few years.

Yeah, IMO Denver would definitely be in the Capt. Forehead sweepstakes.

I said earlier in this thread that this blog was tripe, but maybe I was just jumping to conclusions due to rooting against Manning for so long, not really liking Solomon, and never getting my hopes up based upon pipe dreams.

I have to confess this is where my head is still at. I've heard the "if you can't beat 'em, Join 'em" viewpoint. I'm a believer that if you can't beat 'em, you ain't hittin' hard enough. Get a bigger stick.

Bear with me. It'll take a while before this even becomes something the Peyton-hate centers of my brain will let me consider rationally.

drs23
02-07-2012, 09:23 PM
Yep, IF IF IF he is dead-dog serious about wanting to play for the chance to prove people wrong, to win a ring again, and be a gamer....the Houston Texans represent a very attractive landing spot for him.

I mean, why is Miami the sexy pick right now? He would still have to play in cold weather vs. Bills, Jets, and Patriots. Other than Brandon Marshall, the Dolphins have zilch for him to work with...except that decoy guy at RB. I suppose Florida having no state income tax is a plus. But so is Texas!

This team has as much upside and momentum as any team he could land with. It had everything, IMO, to win the Super Bowl except the injury to Schaub derailed it. And the injury to AJ. Our defense KILLED IT all year long, even without Mario Williams. This team is as complete as any team #18 has ever QB'd before.

I think you let Mario walk, sign #18 to a friendly contract, and make a run at Reggie Wayne. Take BPA in the draft and have multiple orgasms with every pick we make in the draft....because you'd know that we upgraded WR, without giving up draft picks for some guy like Blackmon, and you got at least 1 year to see if #18 can give you 3 to 4 years of QB play with the weapons of Foster, Tate, AJ, Wayne, Daniels, Dreessen, Walter, Casey, Lestar Jean. DAMN!!! And that's not even looking at who we'd draft in 2012 either.

Tell me #18 wouldn't like to snag Reggie Wayne, play for the Texans, and shove it to Irsay for the next four years while they try to get Andrew Luck up and running. Thanks for the memories, Jim Irsay!

I like the sound of that. Go Forehead!

GP
02-07-2012, 10:28 PM
Your scenario is actually very interesting and in my perspective, even plausible.

With regards to potential teams, I think NFC teams are unlikely as Archie wants to see a Manning vs. Manning Super Bowl. So let's just theoretically take the NFC out of the picture.

I'm not sure facing Brady/Patriots twice a season in the same division on a weaker team is going to interest him. Certainly not the Jets with the New York media, and Miami is transitioning right now so lots of instability.

The AFC west is possible simply because the division is so freakin' weak. But who? The Chargers are set, so maybe the Broncos? Great defense, but with the publics mancrush on Tebow, I do not see the Denver front office rocking that boat with high priced QB.

AFC North? I don't think Manning would dig the weather, and what team? The Browns are the only team without a franchise QB, and I have no doubt he's not interesting in Cleveland.

So that leaves the AFC south, where Peyton is right at home. The Texans are about as plug & play for an elite QB as anyone in the league. Manning to Johnson??! That's highlight potential right there. Then add in Daniels, Dreesen, and a solid #2 WR, along with the Foster/Tate combo? Plus, our defense is built to protect a lead, where they can pin their ears in a pass rush and really take advantage of early leads like Peyton often builds.

I said earlier in this thread that this blog was tripe, but maybe I was just jumping to conclusions due to rooting against Manning for so long, not really liking Solomon, and never getting my hopes up based upon pipe dreams.

But, if the opportunity knocks, would I be upset to see Manning on our sideline? Not if it means what I think it could mean in the big picture.

This is where I wish Kubiak had a little bit more "cut throat" in him.

(A) Peyton Manning beat the Texans' brains out for over 9 years, it was an annual twice-a-year ass kicking except for the Christmas Miracle game in Reliant, and the past two years' of splitting with them (IIRC).

(B) Why wouldn't you, as Texans coach, say "You know, I think that the guy who kicked our teeth in on an annual basis for almost a decade...THAT guy might be good to have on OUR team for a change."

(C) I think Irsay is doing the right thing if he lets Manning walk and drafts Luck. It's what he has to do for his own franchise. I "get it," and it's the only way to go for the long haul. But.........

(D) That doesn't mean we have to also think Manning is unserviceable as a quality NFL QB. In contrast, we can scoop up the last year or two (or maybe three or four if Manning is fortunate going forward each year) and use Irsay's plight as our own special form of "insurance claims" payoff. Peyton Manning destroyed our home for 9 years, it's time we collected some insurance money off it.

His knowledge of AFC South teams is solid. He can wear a blindfold and know what to do against each of us, depending on every type of possible situation he might encounter on a Sunday vs. an AFCS team.

To me, the problem has been (A) A declining o-line, who is quite possibly tired of the act #18 had become--The vicious task master who criticizes their mistakes to no end, even when up by 28 in the 4th and 1 minute left on the clock. Also, (B) No sign of a running game, consistently, that can utilize his play fake passing skills. Defense do not have to honor the Colts run game. Period. and (C) Shaky defense by the Colts.

If I were Bob McNair, I'd tell Peyton that the three things that cost the Colts is exactly the three things that we do VERY well. We have a great o-line, a great ground game, and an awesome defense.

But I fear that loyalty wins out at the end of the day. I don't think Schaub can return and be an NFL-caliber QB like he has been. I think this team will afford him the snaps in the final half of the season, to see what he can do, and then make a decision in 2013 about whether to sign him or let him walk and try their luck with Yates.

The problem with that mentality, in my opinion, is that that's a wasted 2012 season when you could have the Ring Master orchestrating the passing attack while the ground game does its own thang that it does so well. We would become the most deadly offense in the NFL. Period. I'm talking 14 or 15-win "deadly."

GP
02-07-2012, 10:37 PM
I mean, this is not even like the Favre saga either.

Manning is a robot. A football machine. He eats film, he drinks his own urine rather than leave the film room for the water fountain in the hall. He is a pro in every sense of the word.

#18, from top to bottom, is a Texans-type guy that an owner like McNair would relish to have a shot at. I actually think it's the biggest gift in the history of the NFL if we could get the final 1-to-4 years of Manning's football life for no draft pick compensation and an incentive-based contract.

In what other universe would this even be a legitimate and possible opportunity for us? LOL.

You basically "lock down" your QB spot, knowing you have Yates sitting and learning as it goes along, and you ride the forehead as far as he can gallup with the football. Guys, we were ONE "clutch/veteran" QB away from going to the Super Bowl.

Hell, I wonder if Peyton was watching that Texans-Ravens playoff game and thinking, "I could be playing in the Super Bowl with the Texans, against my brother....and I would have beaten him too!"

I read the following in either ESPN Magazine or Sports Illustrated: Peyton Manning used to beat Eli so badly in basketball over their family Thanksgiving they'd have with their parents every year...that the one year that Eli had finally grown enough to BEAT Peyton in the annual one-on-one contest they had, that it ended up with Peyton not speaking to Eli for something like two weeks. THAT is how bad #18 wants to win, guys.

He will turn his shoulder on his brother over losing a miserable, trivial one-on-one basketball game!

I will be a Peyton Manning fan in 2012 as long as he is not in the AFCS. The guy is out of this world.

Brisco_County
02-07-2012, 10:44 PM
Some points have been made that I did not consider in the beginning, but I still believe Manning's not going Houston. If he's demanding little to no guaranteed money, that's enough for Irsay to keep him and develop Luck.

And if that doesn't happen, Manning's on the open market. Houston doesn't have the cap room to make that bid. I think Elway will pursue him the most aggressively.

Texn4life
02-07-2012, 10:56 PM
Some points have been made that I did not consider in the beginning, but I still believe Manning's not going Houston. If he's demanding little to no guaranteed money, that's enough for Irsay to keep him and develop Luck.

And if that doesn't happen, Manning's on the open market. Houston doesn't have the cap room to make that bid. I think Elway will pursue him the most aggressively.

Someone correct me I'm wrong, but if he agrees to an incentive laden contract with another team then it would count towards the 2013 league year contract correct? I'm just assuming that's pretty much the only way it could work.

Dutchrudder
02-07-2012, 11:24 PM
Someone correct me I'm wrong, but if he agrees to an incentive laden contract with another team then it would count towards the 2013 league year contract correct? I'm just assuming that's pretty much the only way it could work.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but any salary, prorated signing bonus or roster bonus that is to be paid in 2012, must be regarded as part of the 2012 cap. Incentives that are earned during the regular or post season can exceed the cap, but any money that exceeds the 2012 cap will count against the 2013 cap. So if a team out there with 15 mill in free cap space signs him to a 15 mill MAX incentive contract, they can't possibly exceed the 2012 cap due to Manning.

Texn4life
02-08-2012, 12:02 AM
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but any salary, prorated signing bonus or roster bonus that is to be paid in 2012, must be regarded as part of the 2012 cap. Incentives that are earned during the regular or post season can exceed the cap, but any money that exceeds the 2012 cap will count against the 2013 cap. So if a team out there with 15 mill in free cap space signs him to a 15 mill MAX incentive contract, they can't possibly exceed the 2012 cap due to Manning.

You answered my question, but the reason I ask is because this is what Manning said he would agree to. If for some reason we did decide to sign Manning to a contract like that then re-signing Duane Brown this year is a must to me. It may be a must anyway. We would be smart to start locking up some of our players early. I'm personally intrigued by the potential of the Texans inquiring about Peyton. Its not likely to happen but its fun to think about.

DX-TEX
02-08-2012, 12:34 AM
Some points have been made that I did not consider in the beginning, but I still believe Manning's not going Houston. If he's demanding little to no guaranteed money, that's enough for Irsay to keep him and develop Luck.

And if that doesn't happen, Manning's on the open market. Houston doesn't have the cap room to make that bid. I think Elway will pursue him the most aggressively.

At thos point it is a fore gone conclusion that Manning will not be in Indy next year.

Dutchrudder
02-08-2012, 12:41 AM
You answered my question, but the reason I ask is because this is what Manning said he would agree to. If for some reason we did decide to sign Manning to a contract like that then re-signing Duane Brown this year is a must to me. It may be a must anyway. We would be smart to start locking up some of our players early. I'm personally intrigued by the potential of the Texans inquiring about Peyton. Its not likely to happen but its fun to think about.

Ok, well in that case the Texans could go into cap hell for 2013, with signing Peyton and re-signing all/most of their free agents (assuming he meets his incentive criteria). It just hurts the team down the road because it makes it difficult, if not impossible, to re-sign guys like Barwin, Brown and Cushing. Personally, I would rather have even two of those three over Peyton. Peyton's just too much of a risk IMO, and I think given the Texan's track record with Smithiak, they will not pursue Peyton.

Dutchrudder
02-08-2012, 12:48 AM
I thought about the Chiefs, but they still seem 2-3 years away to build a contender.

I think if Manning were to look for another team he will be looking for a team that has the potential to make a run in 2012. He's too old to rebuild, which is why I think he's out in Indy. If he's able to play, how many more years with that neck? 2? Maybe 3? He's got a find a team that is plug & play ready for him. The Texans are on the short list in that regard.

I do not think it will happen, though, but it is fun to speculate.


I think the Chiefs are better than they appear. This past season was a disaster because of injuries and coaching. Losing guys like JC, Moeaki and Eric Berry decimated that team early on. They even lost Cassel about 2/3rds of the way through the season. I think they will be better next year, and pending major injuries they should be contending for the AFC West title. Adding Peyton, Wayne and Clark to that offense makes them easily the favorite in the division and in play for a first round bye. Not a bad deal for them IMO. However, I think the 49ers are more attractive to Peyton. Their defense is proven, and much better than the Chiefs, but if those players go to the Chiefs, then they can focus on the defense in the draft.

And how weird would it be to root for Peyton Manning after so many years?

I don't have a problem with it. Although I wasn't a fan of the Texans before 2008, so I don't have too much pent up anger against the Colts.

Texn4life
02-08-2012, 12:58 AM
Ok, well in that case the Texans could go into cap hell for 2013, with signing Peyton and re-signing all/most of their free agents (assuming he meets his incentive criteria). It just hurts the team down the road because it makes it difficult, if not impossible, to re-sign guys like Barwin, Brown and Cushing. Personally, I would rather have even two of those three over Peyton. Peyton's just too much of a risk IMO, and I think given the Texan's track record with Smithiak, they will not pursue Peyton.

I'm far from a cap genius, but that's why I mentioned getting these guys signed this year and not waiting until their contract runs out. If we let Mario walk then that frees up some money we can use to get these guys under contract and use that money against the cap while we're in this position.

You're right in that there is a huge risk in signing Manning and also right in that there is no history to suggest we would take that kind of chance. The reason I said re-signing our players this year if we sign Manning to a contract of that sort is a must is because it can potentially free up money next year while also getting some key core players locked in. I'm all for getting these guys locked up anyway. I think we could have gotten Arian for a lot cheaper if we re-signed him after last year. I'm sure a bunch of us will agree that Peyton signing anywhere isn't a no-brainer but the reward can possible far outweigh the risk if the stars align correctly.

Grams
02-08-2012, 06:58 AM
While the surgury had healed, the nerves still have not regenerated.
Having a QB that can only throw the ball 20 yards is kind of useless - even if his name is Manning.

2012Champs
02-08-2012, 08:03 AM
While the surgury had healed, the nerves still have not regenerated.
Having a QB that can only throw the ball 20 yards is kind of useless - even if his name is Manning.



Im certain Manning can throw it 20 yards and has had that ability for some time now. That said if he cant no team will sign him so your point is moot

Grams
02-08-2012, 08:45 AM
Report: Peyton Manning cleared to resume career
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 2, 2012, 5:30 PM EST

Getty ImagesWe have some Peyton Manning news that is actually news.

ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reports that Peyton Manning has been cleared to resume his NFL career.

Colts owner Jim Irsay said in December that he expected Manning would be a Colt if healthy. The presumption of late is that Manning would not be healthy by March. Numerous sources doubted Manning’s ability to ever play again.

The Colts and NFL teams could believe that “cleared” doesn’t mean healthy, but it’s obvious that Manning’s camp wants the news out there that he’s ready to play again. This is the next volley in the back-and-forth between Manning and the Colts.

Mortensen says two doctors cleared Manning to play, including the doctor that performed his surgery.

“If you were my own son, I’d tell [you] to go play,” one doctor told Manning.

"That doesn’t mean Manning is ready to play just yet. The key line in Mortesen’s report is as follows:

“The sources said Watkins examined Manning recently in Los Angeles and concluded the stability in his neck would have allowed the quarterback to play this Sunday if the nerves in his arm had regenerated to a satisfactory performance level,” Mort writes.

So the nerves in Manning’s arm likely haven’t necessarily regenerated to a satisfactory performance level yet. Essentially, it’s sounds like it’s safe for Manning to play again, but he’s not able to be effective yet.

“It’s not a safety issue; it’s a performance issue,” one source said.

So Manning is not “back.” This may not even qualify is particularly new information. He doesn’t know yet when or if his arm will perform at an acceptable level. One source told Mort it could take until May. Left unsaid is that it might not happen at all."

Thorn
02-08-2012, 08:51 AM
I can not believe this thread is still alive. I guess because it's the off season. Not like we have anything important to talk about just yet.

And this certainly isn't important because it isn't going to happen.

Rey
02-08-2012, 09:15 AM
If we only talked about stuff that is going to happen here this would be a boring, lonely place to come.

TexCanada
02-08-2012, 11:21 AM
There are so many unknowns in this situation right now. We have no idea if Manning or Schaub will ever return to anything close to their former selves at this point. I would absolutely love to get Peyton on this team if he does in fact return to full health, and I would be willing to let Mario walk to make it happen. If we could get Peyton and Reggie Wayne on short-term, incentive-based contracts, and draft a Mario replacement to back up Barwin/Reed in the first round then we would have a seriously legitimate chance to win a super bowl.

This is something that our FO should be seriously considering. It may be nearly impossible to make it happen, but I really hope they take a hard look at it.

Texan_Bill
02-08-2012, 11:25 AM
I'll make the case against Manning.

1) The Texans aren't offering Peyton a contract.
2) See #1.

Btw, the Texans sell out Reliant for every game. Including preseason.

3) See Lucky's post, paying particularly close attention to #1).

Vinny
02-08-2012, 11:25 AM
We have no idea if Manning or Schaub will ever return to anything close to their former selves at this point.
did I miss the boat or is there something wrong with Schaub that I don't know about?

DX-TEX
02-08-2012, 11:38 AM
did I miss the boat or is there something wrong with Schaub that I don't know about?

Some say the Linsfranc (?) injury will take longer to heal, if at all, than what the Texans are saying. Ive seen everywhere from he will be ready for training camp to missing the entire season stated.

TexCanada
02-08-2012, 11:42 AM
Some say the Linsfranc (?) injury will take longer to heal, if at all, than what the Texans are saying. Ive seen everywhere from he will be ready for training camp to missing the entire season stated.

Ya, all the news from the Texans/Schaub has been positive, but it is still a big unknown at this point. It seems quite possible that Schaub could lose some of the little mobility that he had in the first place.

Marcus
02-08-2012, 11:43 AM
did I miss the boat or is there something wrong with Schaub that I don't know about?

Were you being facetious?

Double Barrel
02-08-2012, 12:05 PM
I think this is more plausible than you're thinking.

If there's anyone that the Tebow fanboys would shut up for it would be the addition of a future HoF'er like Manning. They would realize that Manning would only be there a couple of years and make them competitive and relevant during that time. And Manning has the chops and resume' to take any heat the hardcore Tebow-ites could dish out.

The fanbase would have to know that there's no better teacher for their boy Tebow to learn from for those two years than Manning??


And Elway would HAVE to be elated with someone under center that actually knows how to be a traditional - and effective - QB.

The only snag I see is whether Manning is willing to play outside in the cold. ...especially after being indoors the last few years.

Yeah, IMO Denver would definitely be in the Capt. Forehead sweepstakes.


You know, after I typed that, I started thinking about it and Manning might be the one trump card that Elway has to take control of his team from the Tebow Mania. Like you said, fans would most likely comprehend the potential of getting Manning, and this gives Elway a small exit to save face.

Although, I think Manning playing in an outdoor stadium in Colorado is the X factor. Dude's entire career has been home in a dome, and that cannot be overlooked.

I have to confess this is where my head is still at. I've heard the "if you can't beat 'em, Join 'em" viewpoint. I'm a believer that if you can't beat 'em, you ain't hittin' hard enough. Get a bigger stick.

Bear with me. It'll take a while before this even becomes something the Peyton-hate centers of my brain will let me consider rationally.

I played a trick on my wife and football fanatic son last night when I told them that the Texans might sign Manning. The look on their faces was priceless. The dropped jaw and WTF? looks said it all.

I do not even think it's realistic, so I'm not too concerned about having to deal with the conflicted emotions in the real world. However, it would be like Vikings fans suddenly having to root for Brett Favre after so many years of loathing the guy. It's the mercenary nature of free agency these days.

I think the Chiefs are better than they appear. This past season was a disaster because of injuries and coaching. Losing guys like JC, Moeaki and Eric Berry decimated that team early on. They even lost Cassel about 2/3rds of the way through the season. I think they will be better next year, and pending major injuries they should be contending for the AFC West title. Adding Peyton, Wayne and Clark to that offense makes them easily the favorite in the division and in play for a first round bye. Not a bad deal for them IMO. However, I think the 49ers are more attractive to Peyton. Their defense is proven, and much better than the Chiefs, but if those players go to the Chiefs, then they can focus on the defense in the draft.

I think the big factor is the open stadium and winter Kansas weather.

The team itself...hard to say, because they really took a turn south in one year. I think having Romeo Crennel move to HC gives them some continuity, but honestly, I was never impressed with him as a HC. The Chiefs could certainly rebound, but that's not a given. The Texans have all the pieces in place to continue what they accomplished in 2011.

If we only talked about stuff that is going to happen here this would be a boring, lonely place to come.

yeah, it's off-season fever! I agree, though. It's not like anything we say and talk about in the forum has any kind of impact in the real world, even during the regular season, so this is just the cycle of fanatics to keep talking about football and to pass the time.

I dig Thorn, but I don't understand coming into thread just to ***** about the thread. I don't enter a lot of threads because they just don't interest me. If you don't like the subject, find another one that you do like. It has never bothered me that folks talk about stuff that I'm not into or is even 'out there'. :)

did I miss the boat or is there something wrong with Schaub that I don't know about?

CnD had posted some really great info (as always!) about Schaub's injury and the very real possibility that he might not even be ready to play until mid-season 2012, and that is under good recovery circumstances. So it's not really a diss on Schaub so much as it's the concern that we might be starting next season with a very rough-around-the-edges Yates.

Vinny
02-08-2012, 12:08 PM
Were you being facetious?
Schaub may lose a step but I don't think that hurts his game.

Vinny
02-08-2012, 12:10 PM
CnD had posted some really great info (as always!) about Schaub's injury and the very real possibility that he might not even be ready to play until mid-season 2012, and that is under good recovery circumstances. So it's not really a diss on Schaub so much as it's the concern that we might be starting next season with a very rough-around-the-edges Yates.haven't read it...just followed the general news stuff. Donno if I want to read it now. I'm not wanting to Schleprock this offseason...it's all feel good stuff. Bring on the Marketing Comrades. I'm yer slackey this year.

Double Barrel
02-08-2012, 12:14 PM
haven't read it...just followed the general news stuff. Donno if I want to read it now. I'm not wanting to Schleprock this offseason...it's all feel good stuff. Bring on the Marketing Comrades. I'm yer slackey this year.

lol! I hear ya'! I don't want to lose the good vibes of 2011 to a reality check! :panic:

b0ng
02-08-2012, 07:32 PM
I can not believe this thread is still alive. I guess because it's the off season. Not like we have anything important to talk about just yet.

And this certainly isn't important because it isn't going to happen.

This thread needs a dose of reality:

http://i.imgur.com/3xJBJ.gif

or

http://i.imgur.com/JDVE6.png

curtesy of somethingawful

GP
02-08-2012, 08:04 PM
Speculation today is that the Cardinals hired ex-Colts coach Reich, WR coach. The gossip is that it's in preparation to eat the Kolb contract and get #18 to take over.

b0ng
02-08-2012, 08:05 PM
Speculation today is that the Cardinals hired ex-Colts coach Reich, WR coach. The gossip is that it's in preparation to eat the Kolb contract and get #18 to take over.

http://i.imgur.com/AT9zs.jpg

EDIT: It's actually Frank Reich (if you remember him, I bet you do), and he was the Colts QB coach for awhile too.

Brisco_County
02-08-2012, 08:38 PM
Manning still appears to have a "noodle arm" at this point.

Bob Kravitz of the Indianapolis Star said people who have seen Peyton Manning throw since the end of the regular season do not think he looks like an NFL-caliber quarterback. Kravitz actually used the phrase "noodle arm" at one point. "But that doesn't mean he never will [have the arm strength] ... or that he won't in a couple of months," Kravitz adds. "This thing is going to take time."

Link (http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/23737/Peyton-victim-of--noodle-arm--/Default.aspx)

Kind of defeats the purpose of pursuing him for stability at the position.

Texan_Bill
02-08-2012, 09:26 PM
Personally, I feel that I don't ever want to see Pay-Me-A-Ton Manning on a football field ever again. Not because I hate the fact that he continually destroyed OUR Texans, but because of his neck injuries.... That ****e is serious! I'm truly concerned about a human being that has had 3 neck surgeries.... That's truly concerning.

DUDE, you gave the league about 15 +/- years.... Enjoy your place in history and take care of yourself!!

b0ng
02-08-2012, 09:27 PM
http://i.imgur.com/XWt7Rl.jpg

GP
02-08-2012, 10:12 PM
http://i.imgur.com/AT9zs.jpg

EDIT: It's actually Frank Reich (if you remember him, I bet you do), and he was the Colts QB coach for awhile too.

The odds are 35 to 3 that I do know who Reich is. LOL.

The Colts have ex-coaches scattered to a lot of teams, though. Technically, there's more teams than just the Cardinals who could use the ex-Indy angle if they wanted to.

I think it's a $7 million hit on the Cards if they axe Kolb. Either he has a $7 million due to him or it's a $7 million cap hit, I cannot remember which. It's going to be interesting to see which team dumps their QB for him.

GP
02-08-2012, 10:30 PM
Some say the Linsfranc (?) injury will take longer to heal, if at all, than what the Texans are saying. Ive seen everywhere from he will be ready for training camp to missing the entire season stated.

It's Schaub saying he will be ready by camp, btw. He's fooling himself, too. It's logistically impossible unless Tebow is laying hands on the guy's foot.

Marcus has been preaching the gospel on this lisfranc situation, since he has gone through it himself. And CnD, the guy who knows the topic better than anybody, is also contributing to the book that Matt Schaub is not going to be ready by camp. He is not going to be ready by preseason. And he will not be ready by week 1 of reg season.

The guy is going to play, MAYBE, the last half of the season (at best) to show if he can gain a new contract or not. If this franchise has shown anything, it has shown it gives guys chances (see: Jacoby Jones, Amobi Okoye, Travis Johnson, Dunta Robinson, David Carr, Steve Slaton, on and on and on....).

TJ Yates will be the starter. And I'm fine with that. He has Kubiak's trust, he won the AFCS-clinching game in Cincy on a last-second pass for a TD to Walter that he easily could have choked on instead. He led us to the first round win over the same team, giving the Texans its first-ever playoff victory. And he had an up-and-down day in Baltimore where had Jacoby Jones not goofed up royally...we might have won that game despite Yates' up and down day.

The guy will have a full off-season (remember, he wasn't a Texans player until May 2011) the lockout prohibited him and others getting a full dose of "real" OTAs and camp, etc. So he'll have a full off-season, full camp, and preseason running with the 1st stringers. He gets that famous run game back, the o-line back, the defense back, and I think he will be fine.

Then he gets yanked about half-way through the season in favor of Schaub UNLESS Yates is going so bonkers that there's no conceivable way Kubiak could pull Yates. Either way, I think 2012 is Schaub's last year as a Texans QB. History is not on his side, but hey...anything is possible and I wish the guy well. Just saying that it doesn't look promising.

GP
02-08-2012, 10:41 PM
Manning still appears to have a "noodle arm" at this point.

Bob Kravitz of the Indianapolis Star said people who have seen Peyton Manning throw since the end of the regular season do not think he looks like an NFL-caliber quarterback. Kravitz actually used the phrase "noodle arm" at one point. "But that doesn't mean he never will [have the arm strength] ... or that he won't in a couple of months," Kravitz adds. "This thing is going to take time."

Link (http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/23737/Peyton-victim-of--noodle-arm--/Default.aspx)

Kind of defeats the purpose of pursuing him for stability at the position.

Very interesting. Good contribution to the thread here, thank you for sharing.

Irsay was firm when he said "just because his physician cleared him, does not mean that he has had a physical and can play QB for the Colts" or something like that. It wasn't rude, but it was firm and fair. Yeah, your doc says you're OK...but you have to be more than able to be on a field.

Seegara
02-08-2012, 11:08 PM
Mister Manning could never succeed in Kubiak's offense. Peyton likes to change plays at the line of scrimmage and call plays on the quick count—good strategies that Kubiak won't permit.

Texn4life
02-09-2012, 12:17 AM
Mister Manning could never succeed in Kubiak's offense. Peyton likes to change plays at the line of scrimmage and call plays on the quick count—good strategies that Kubiak won't permit.

This is the silliest notion I've heard. I don't think Peyton to Houston is happening either, but to suggest that Manning couldn't succeed in this offense is flat out foolish. The guy is a 1st ballot future HOF'er. He was given the reigns to the offense to an extent in Indy, but trust me if he was here Kubiak would give him the freedom to make adjustments in this offense as well.

Having an offensive mind like Peyton being able to read the defense, and check out of a bad play is a blessing. Not a curse.

ObsiWan
02-09-2012, 12:54 AM
This thread needs a dose of reality:

http://i.imgur.com/3xJBJ.gif

or

http://i.imgur.com/JDVE6.png

curtesy of somethingawful

Chief Forehead gets a +1

...but if you do a Manning/Toro pic, I swear I'll hand out my first ever neg rep
:D

ObsiWan
02-09-2012, 12:55 AM
http://i.imgur.com/XWt7Rl.jpg

...why I oughta...
:bat:

ObsiWan
02-09-2012, 01:04 AM
Manning still appears to have a "noodle arm" at this point.



Link (http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/23737/Peyton-victim-of--noodle-arm--/Default.aspx)

Kind of defeats the purpose of pursuing him for stability at the position.

I've seen this assessment of Manning's decline in arm strength before and stated that will be the determining factor as to how effective he will be if/when he gets to play again.

How soon his arm returns to it's former level of strength is just as much of an unknown as how soon Schaub's foot will completely (or at least acceptably) heal.

To assume one thing (Peyton will return to full strength) will happen and the other won't (Schaub won't be back to full <ahem> mobility) is guessing on everyone's part. We'll just have to wait and see.

Double Barrel
02-09-2012, 12:02 PM
Mister Manning could never succeed in Kubiak's offense. Peyton likes to change plays at the line of scrimmage and call plays on the quick count—good strategies that Kubiak won't permit.

This is the silliest notion I've heard. I don't think Peyton to Houston is happening either, but to suggest that Manning couldn't succeed in this offense is flat out foolish. The guy is a 1st ballot future HOF'er. He was given the reigns to the offense in the offense to an extent in Indy, but trust me if he was here Kubiak would give him the freedom to make adjustments in this offense as well.

Having an offensive mind like Peyton being able to read the defense, and check out of a bad play is a blessing. Not a curse.

I agree with Texn4life. Kubiak has worked with two HoF QBs already, John Elway and Steve Young, so it's not like he's some rigid taskmaster that cannot adapt to circumstances.

I do not think Manning will play in 2012 or ever again, to be honest. And I think it's a very long shot that he'd end up on the Texans if he does play again.

But, to suggest that Kubiak would be unable to work with a high caliber player like Manning is really underestimating our head coach.

2012Champs
02-09-2012, 01:57 PM
Personally, I feel that I don't ever want to see Pay-Me-A-Ton Manning on a football field ever again. Not because I hate the fact that he continually destroyed OUR Texans, but because of his neck injuries.... That ****e is serious! I'm truly concerned about a human being that has had 3 neck surgeries.... That's truly concerning.

DUDE, you gave the league about 15 +/- years.... Enjoy your place in history and take care of yourself!!


Its not like his neck issues have carried the potential of him never walking again. He is at no more health risk than any other player

Dutchrudder
02-09-2012, 02:02 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what play or who hit Manning to cause his neck injuries? Was there a single play that started it, or was it general punishment over the years?

drs23
02-09-2012, 02:56 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what play or who hit Manning to cause his neck injuries? Was there a single play that started it, or was it general punishment over the years?

I don't know who hit him, but I bet Bernard Pollard get blamed. :)

Texn4life
02-09-2012, 03:53 PM
I don't know who hit him, but I bet Bernard Pollard get blamed. :)

I want to say he said it was a hit from Mario early in the year, but he played through it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

infantrycak
02-09-2012, 05:34 PM
I want to say he said it was a hit from Mario early in the year, but he played through it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

Manning didn't play a down of the 2011 season.

Texn4life
02-09-2012, 05:52 PM
Manning didn't play a down of the 2011 season.

Lol, wow...... I know I didn't say early in what year, but because even the dumbest of football fans can use assumptions I would think you would know I was talking about the 2010 year. Wow, just wow.
Not to self: Always state the year of anything for the brain dead football fan.

Double Barrel
02-09-2012, 06:38 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what play or who hit Manning to cause his neck injuries? Was there a single play that started it, or was it general punishment over the years?

According to Tony Dungy, it was a specific hit:

Tony Dungy Believes Peyton Manning’s Neck Injury Traces Back to 2006 Hit

His neck problems prompted his former coach, Tony Dungy, to pinpoint the moment of their origin: an Oct. 22, 2006, game against the Washington Redskins. Talking with Peter King on NBC’s NFL preview show Saturday night, Dungy recalled that Manning’s neck was wrenched and his helmet ripped off when he took a low hit by Andre Carter, followed by a high hit by Phillip Daniels. The anecdote was relayed by King, who said that Manning stretched his neck when he got up and shook his right arm “as if trying to get the feeling back in it.

Full story (http://larrybrownsports.com/football/tony-dungy-believes-peyton-mannings-neck-injury-traces-back-to-2006-hit/86770)


Lol, wow...... I know I didn't say early in what year, but because even the dumbest of football fans can use assumptions I would think you would know I was talking about the 2010 year. Wow, just wow.
Not to self: Always state the year of anything for the brain dead football fan.

Dude, seriously? infantrycak is one of the smartest cats on this board, and it appears to me that you are attempting to troll the forum's lead moderator. yeah, that works when throwing the brain dead blast around. :rolleyes:

Texn4life
02-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Dude, seriously? infantrycak is one of the smartest cats on this board, and it appears to me that you are attempting to troll the forum's lead moderator. yeah, that works when throwing the brain dead blast around. :rolleyes:

I wasn't calling him brain dead. I was saying that for future reference I would state the year so it wasn't mistaken by someone who was brain dead. He responded to something I said. I don't have a reason to troll him. The fact that he thinks that I don't know that Peyton Manning didn't play last year says more about him, not me.

For the record, I don't have any real idea what it is to "troll". Every individual on this board is equal in my view. I'll treat each person the same moderator or not. If he took it that I insulted him in any way then I do apologize. I've seen him posting for quite awhile here and the official team board being a lurker for a while so I don't question his intelligence one bit.

Double Barrel
02-09-2012, 07:07 PM
I wasn't calling him brain dead. I was saying that for future reference I would state the year so it wasn't mistaken by someone who was brain dead. He responded to something I said. I don't have a reason to troll him. The fact that he thinks that I don't know that Peyton Manning didn't play last year says more about him, not me.

For the record, I don't have any real idea what it is to "troll". Every individual on this board is equal in my view. I'll treat each person the same moderator or not. If he took it that I insulted him in any way then I do apologize. I've seen him posting for quite awhile here and the official team board being a lurker for a while so I don't question his intelligence one bit.

It's cool, man. We have fans of all depths and degrees, so I think he was just trying to be helpful.

To be honest with you, I thought you meant this year when I first read it, as well. And you did invite a reply with "Someone correct me if I'm wrong though". :fingergun:

Texn4life
02-09-2012, 07:23 PM
It's cool, man. We have fans of all depths and degrees, so I think he was just trying to be helpful.

To be honest with you, I thought you meant this year when I first read it, as well. And you did invite a reply with "Someone correct me if I'm wrong though". :fingergun:

True, and I never was an English major so my wording or choice of words sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

I did try to find something about Peyton mentioning a hit from Mario back in 2010, and can almost swear he said he thought he felt something during one of those games that year. I can only find an article from Dungy which you quoted though saying that he thought a 2006 hit against the Redskins could have been the initial source of the problem. Kind of hard to believe that he played with a neck injury of that sort for 4 years.

ChampionTexan
02-09-2012, 07:35 PM
True, and I never was an English major so my wording or choice of words sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

I did try to find something about Peyton mentioning a hit from Mario back in 2010, and can almost swear he said he thought he felt something during one of those games that year. I can only find an article from Dungy which you quoted though saying that he thought a 2006 hit against the Redskins could have been the initial source of the problem. Kind of hard to believe that he played with a neck injury of that sort for 4 years.

There could have been a hit in early 2010 that aggravated it, but the initial surgery occurred in the off season preceding that. Indy's last Super Bowl appearance was after the '09 season (February of 2010), and Peyton had neck surgery within weeks of that game.

There's a comment in the article that's right in line with Dungy's comment:

This condition has existed intermittently for the past four years, but at no time did it interfere with his training, practice or playing regimen," the Colts said. "While it never has affected Peyton's activity on or off the field, the Colts' medical staff, after post-playoff examination, thought it best to resolve the situation now.

LINK (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/03/colts-manning-recovering-from-neck-surgery/)

Texn4life
02-09-2012, 07:39 PM
There could have been a hit in early 2010 that aggravated it, but the initial surgery occurred in the off season preceding that. Indy's last Super Bowl appearance was after the '09 season (February of 2010), and Peyton had neck surgery within weeks of that game.

There's a comment in the article that's right in line with Dungy's comment:



LINK (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/03/colts-manning-recovering-from-neck-surgery/)

Thanks, the fact that Peyton was able to start so many games consecutively was remarkable.

Texan_Bill
02-09-2012, 09:04 PM
It's cool, man. We have fans of all depths and degrees, so I think he was just trying to be helpful.

To be honest with you, I thought you meant this year when I first read it, as well. And you did invite a reply with "Someone correct me if I'm wrong though". :fingergun:

Honestly DB, I read it the same way. Although, I am no where near the intellect level that Chris or you are on.

Seegara
02-09-2012, 10:30 PM
I agree with Texn4life. Kubiak has worked with two HoF QBs already, John Elway and Steve Young, so it's not like he's some rigid taskmaster that cannot adapt to circumstances.

I do not think Manning will play in 2012 or ever again, to be honest. And I think it's a very long shot that he'd end up on the Texans if he does play again.

But, to suggest that Kubiak would be unable to work with a high caliber player like Manning is really underestimating our head coach.
At least you said it politely.

b0ng
02-09-2012, 11:21 PM
A new challenger has emerged:

http://i.imgur.com/A70W5.jpg

Brisco_County
02-10-2012, 09:01 AM
Lombardi: Peyton Manning cannot throw to his left, lacks velocity.



Appearing on Bill Simmons Bs Report this morning, NFL Network's Mike Lombardi said people who are catching Peyton Manning's passes as he rehabs say his passes not only lack velocity but that he cannot throw to his left.

He can't throw the ball across his body, because he doesn't feel it. People that catch the ball for him say he doesn't really have velocity on the ball yet." Lombardi is skeptical of any franchise hinging its hopes on Manning. The hope, of course, is that Manning will regain feeling in his arm as the nerve regenerates


Link (http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/23757/Lombardi--Peyton-cannot-throw-to-his-left/Default.aspx)

Schaub will be a starter again before Peyton.

GP
02-10-2012, 09:37 AM
Sounds like that "if" I was talking about is going to play a factor.

I had said "if" he can throw passes, all of them, consistently and for a long duration, that the Texans should at least approach him and his agent.

But the reports Brisco has been sharing seem to shed light upon his future that doesn't look very bright.

Anybody know if that type of nerve situation will ever fully or even almost-fully regenerate itself or is he pretty much screwed and therefore this is the best he can achieve with it???

2012Champs
02-10-2012, 09:38 AM
Lombardi: Peyton Manning cannot throw to his left, lacks velocity.



Link (http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/23757/Lombardi--Peyton-cannot-throw-to-his-left/Default.aspx)

Schaub will be a starter again before Peyton.



interesting this morning Mike and Mike had a report from Christ Mortensen saying that his throwing has improved a great deal. It wouldnt be a shock for his velocity to be off though

Rey
02-10-2012, 09:49 AM
Lombardi: Peyton Manning cannot throw to his left, lacks velocity.



Link (http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/23757/Lombardi--Peyton-cannot-throw-to-his-left/Default.aspx)

Schaub will be a starter again before Peyton.

I'm not buying that.

What "people that are catching his passes" are going to go and spread that kind of news?

Doesn't make any sense.

Maybe he is not up to speed. Maybe he never plays again.

I just don't believe that he is throwing to some guys and they go out and say those things even if true.

Lombardi is lying or someone lied to him.

GP
02-10-2012, 12:57 PM
It does beg the question: What person would (a) catch passes or be in attendance of those sessions, and then (b) leak information to Lombardi that paints #18 in a bad light?

A person would have to be crazy to do that. Because they will narrow down who it was who leaked the information. It wouldn't be difficult.

Not saying it isn;t true, just saying that if it IS true...the person who leaked it better have gotten a nice payday from NFLN because he'll never work anywhere again after having leaked sensitive information about #18. Correct?

Double Barrel
02-10-2012, 01:03 PM
I'm not buying that.

What "people that are catching his passes" are going to go and spread that kind of news?

Doesn't make any sense.

Maybe he is not up to speed. Maybe he never plays again.

I just don't believe that he is throwing to some guys and they go out and say those things even if true.

Lombardi is lying or someone lied to him.

Well, money talks and can often make lips a lot looser. But, Lombardi could just be jabbing out his butt, too.

To be honest, I tend to believe that Manning is having some difficulty with his rehab, because if he was throwing okay, I think we would see video of it. Manning needs to sell himself, to either Irsay or some other team. Hiding his progress leads me to believe that it's not going as good as he wants it to. JMO

Dutchrudder
02-10-2012, 02:50 PM
I think this pretty much shows why Peyton's getting cut. It's the smart financial decision for the Colts, but unfortunately for them it will cost them a lot.

The Option Treatment

The Cap treatment of the option bonus, due to its timing, is rather unique. Since it is due and payable within the 2011 League Year -- the March 8th deadline precedes the March 13th 2012 League Year opening -- the option amount is prorated into 2011 as well as future years of the contract. Thus, $5.6 million – 1/5th of the $28 million option bonus – was allocated as a Cap charge in every year of the original contract.

In the event Manning is released, the Cap charges for the option will come off the books, meaning the $5.6 million charge for 2012 will be deleted and the $5.6 million option proration amount in 2011 will then become a credit to the 2012 Cap, reducing the Colts' Cap charge on Manning by that amount.

Manning's Cap charge, if somehow the Colts exercise the option and keep him, is the following: $4 million (the amount of prorated signing bonus) PLUS $5.6 million (the amount of prorated option bonus) PLUS $7.4 million (the amount of salary) EQUALS $17 million.

So what is Manning’s 2012 Cap charge to the Colts if released?

$16 million (the amount of accelerated bonus proration) MINUS $5.6 million (the amount of credited option bonus proration) EQUALS $10.4 million.

Thus, if the Colts move on from Manning, the consequences of the contract signed five months ago will be $26.4 million in cash and $10.4 million in leftover "dead money" Cap charges.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Peyton-Predicament-Part-3-9076.html

GP
02-10-2012, 10:00 PM
To be honest, I tend to believe that Manning is having some difficulty with his rehab, because if he was throwing okay, I think we would see video of it. Manning needs to sell himself, to either Irsay or some other team. Hiding his progress leads me to believe that it's not going as good as he wants it to. JMO

Very good point.

ckhouston
02-19-2012, 10:50 AM
And for what, three years of service?

Three straight SuperBowl wins? Ill take it.

Double Barrel
03-19-2012, 06:07 PM
I think this is more plausible than you're thinking.

If there's anyone that the Tebow fanboys would shut up for it would be the addition of a future HoF'er like Manning. They would realize that Manning would only be there a couple of years and make them competitive and relevant during that time. And Manning has the chops and resume' to take any heat the hardcore Tebow-ites could dish out.

The fanbase would have to know that there's no better teacher for their boy Tebow to learn from for those two years than Manning??


And Elway would HAVE to be elated with someone under center that actually knows how to be a traditional - and effective - QB.

The only snag I see is whether Manning is willing to play outside in the cold. ...especially after being indoors the last few years.

Yeah, IMO Denver would definitely be in the Capt. Forehead sweepstakes.


You know, after I typed that, I started thinking about it and Manning might be the one trump card that Elway has to take control of his team from the Tebow Mania. Like you said, fans would most likely comprehend the potential of getting Manning, and this gives Elway a small exit to save face.

Although, I think Manning playing in an outdoor stadium in Colorado is the X factor. Dude's entire career has been home in a dome, and that cannot be overlooked.

I remember having this conversation with ObsiWan, so I had to dig it up. I guess a couple of blind squirrels can find some acorns every once in awhile! :D

ObsiWan
03-19-2012, 06:09 PM
I remember having this conversation with ObsiWan, so I had to dig it up. I guess a couple of blind squirrels can find some acorns every once in awhile! :D

Denver just seemed like the logical, obvious choice to thinking people. And to us too.
:D

ThaShark316
03-19-2012, 06:42 PM
Congrats, you two. Great observations by y'all.

http://www.bradsburgers.com/images/chuck%20norris%20approves.gif

Marcus
03-19-2012, 06:54 PM
To be honest, I tend to believe that Manning is having some difficulty with his rehab, because if he was throwing okay, I think we would see video of it.

Which begs the question. How long do you think it will be before we see video of Matt Schaub?

:tiptoe:

Double Barrel
03-19-2012, 08:18 PM
Which begs the question. How long do you think it will be before we see video of Matt Schaub?

:tiptoe:

I'm not too optimistic, to be honest. Based upon your personal experiences and the professional perspective of CnD, I do not have the most hopeful attitude about our season opener in September when it comes to Schaub.

Nawzer
03-19-2012, 09:09 PM
So I guess we're not signing Peyton....

As for Schaub, Lisfranc is a delicate fracture and we're hoping that the cartilage is forming in the joint. Stress might cause re-injury and possible arthritis.

Texan_Bill
03-19-2012, 09:39 PM
Queen Solomon was a "*****" yet again!!

Thankns Jerome for being a joke, yet again!!

Carr Bombed
03-19-2012, 10:36 PM
Which begs the question. How long do you think it will be before we see video of Matt Schaub?

:tiptoe:

Who the hell wants to see video of Matt Schaub?... his still photos are scary/awkward enough :backsout:

If there is a photogenic gene.. this cat definetely didn't get it