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Quick II Draw
01-26-2012, 02:47 AM
Or are the Texans one of the deepest, most talent rich teams in the NFL right now? It's strange to think back just a few years ago where I could point out so many glaring holes on the depth chart. League's worst secondary, Demeco was the only really good linebacker, zero interior pressure, slightly-above-average O-line. All of the sudden the Texans have a top 5 RB with a starter-caliber backup, a top 5 O-line, an amazing front seven, one of the greatest emerging MLB talents in the league (and he's not named Demeco), a pretty good secondary. Crazy.

So, how did this happen?

Is the front office getting a lot better at evaluating talent? Is the coaching staff developing players better?

Were the Texans not as mediocre as I used to think, and are they not as good as I think they are now? Or was it just some dumb luck?

TheMatrix31
01-26-2012, 05:45 AM
Not crazy at all.

The Texans, when healthy, are the most well-rounded team in the league.

A young, deep, and crazy defense, a shutdown corner, one of the best offensive lines in the game, the deepest running attack, the best WR in football, a top 8-12 QB, and two very solid TEs.

El Tejano
01-26-2012, 08:37 AM
Or are the Texans one of the deepest, most talent rich teams in the NFL right now? It's strange to think back just a few years ago where I could point out so many glaring holes on the depth chart. League's worst secondary, Demeco was the only really good linebacker, zero interior pressure, slightly-above-average O-line. All of the sudden the Texans have a top 5 RB with a starter-caliber backup, a top 5 O-line, an amazing front seven, one of the greatest emerging MLB talents in the league (and he's not named Demeco), a pretty good secondary. Crazy.

So, how did this happen?

Is the front office getting a lot better at evaluating talent? Is the coaching staff developing players better?

Were the Texans not as mediocre as I used to think, and are they not as good as I think they are now? Or was it just some dumb luck?

Two simple words - Ownership and Coaching

We have basically the same team. On offense we had a guy that made his hay by coaching offense succesfully - Gary Kubiak. However for all those years our HC was trying out coaches to coach defense (Richard Smith, and I forget the guy who wen to Tenn). That wasn't working so finally ownership had enough of that and went and hand picked their DC and got one who is not a position coach but someone who very well make the HOF based on being a DC alone and had a reputation for changing sorry defenses to great ones. That's what happened. Bottom line.

pirbroke
01-26-2012, 08:41 AM
I agree with ya, I think they have been killing the draft since Kubes came over. They have a great scouting department IMO but this next one will be a tough test due to so few needs and the picks much lower in the rounds, All we can hope for is one immediate starter from this next draft.

Vinny
01-26-2012, 11:24 AM
Or are the Texans one of the deepest, most talent rich teams in the NFL right now? It's strange to think back just a few years ago where I could point out so many glaring holes on the depth chart. League's worst secondary, Demeco was the only really good linebacker, zero interior pressure, slightly-above-average O-line. All of the sudden the Texans have a top 5 RB with a starter-caliber backup, a top 5 O-line, an amazing front seven, one of the greatest emerging MLB talents in the league (and he's not named Demeco), a pretty good secondary. Crazy.

So, how did this happen?

Is the front office getting a lot better at evaluating talent? Is the coaching staff developing players better?

Were the Texans not as mediocre as I used to think, and are they not as good as I think they are now? Or was it just some dumb luck?
this is the reason Kubiak had so much heat from the fans the last two seasons before this one...the talent didn't just pop up out of nowhere this season. This is the first season in a few years where I don't think the team underachieved.

Marcus
01-26-2012, 11:34 AM
this is the reason Kubiak had so much heat from the fans the last two seasons before this one...the talent didn't just pop up out of nowhere this season. This is the first season in a few years where I don't think the team underachieved.

Jonathan Joseph, J.J. Watt, Brooks Reed?? Those three alone make the "talent" angle debatable.

Vinny
01-26-2012, 11:45 AM
Jonathan Joseph, J.J. Watt, Brooks Reed?? Those three alone make the "talent" angle debatable.
I guess you thought Kubiak did well to get us to 6-10 last season huh?

Marcus
01-26-2012, 12:03 PM
I guess you thought Kubiak did well to get us to 6-10 last season huh?

You guessed wrong.

I said it's debatable that talent didn't "pop out of nowhere" on the defense this season.

disaacks3
01-26-2012, 12:04 PM
Jonathan Joseph, J.J. Watt, Brooks Reed?? Those three alone make the "talent" angle debatable. Danieal Manning as well. they also worked to keep some FB blocking in place w/ Vickers.

For once, the Draft and FA Gods were good to the Texans.

Vinny
01-26-2012, 12:11 PM
You guessed wrong.

I said it's debatable that talent didn't "pop out of nowhere" on the defense this season.Guessed what wrong? This didn't have to be a HISTORICALLY bad defense last year. This team totally underachieved for a couple of seasons and the talent level was good enough to complete for a playoff spot last year...not win it all like this year, but at least be .500. Nobody thought we'd have the worst d in the NFL. Most fans thought we would compete for a playoff spot last year.

TejasTom
01-26-2012, 01:14 PM
..
(Richard Smith, and I forget the guy who wen to Tenn)...

We'd like to forget him (Frank Bush) too!

Goldensilence
01-26-2012, 01:20 PM
I think Vinny's point is more along the lines of that the team hasn't been totally bereft of talent on both sides of the ball. I would've loved a top 5 defense last year like this, but honestly they didn't NEED to be much more than a middle of the road defense to compete for a playoff spot.

What happened this year was something many have been calling for since the second dismal year with Richard Smith. Hire a DC with a track record of fielding good defenses.

Yes, getting Watt and Reed in the draft were big pluses, but only with a coordinator who knows what to do with their respective skill sets. That's what seperates a Wade Phillips from a Frank Bush.

Far as getting Joseph and Manning here, I have doubts either would've signed here with a Frank Bush type coordinator.

Honestly, I could care less whether or not McNair went over Kubiak's back to hire Phillips. Point is they got a DC in who knows what they are doing and that IMO made the difference between another lukewarm .500ish season into one that gave us a playoff berth and win at home.

Hervoyel
01-26-2012, 01:51 PM
The talent those new guys replaced used to stink up the joint for half the season and then come on like gangbusters over the last 6 weeks. They did this year after year and every season would start with us expecting to see the defense that walked off the field at the end of the previous year only to be treated to another 6-8 weeks of some of the worst defense out there.

So which defense were they? The lousy one that started every year or the great one that finished every year? I think (opinion follows as usual) it was a Richard Smith/Frank Bush thing. It's not that they couldn't play well all year long. The inexperienced DC pulling their strings didn't know enough or didn't get desperate enough to let them off the chain until things were completely out of hand and the season was lost.

gary
01-26-2012, 02:06 PM
Wade Phillips. That is what occurred.

Giant Tiger
01-26-2012, 07:16 PM
Well, in past years, we were all looking forward to the draft before the season ended. That didn't happen this year. I'm not even worried about who the Texans will pick this year. I'll watch with interest, but this year I'm more curious about the players picked rather than worried about fixing the team.

cbs1507
01-26-2012, 07:47 PM
Guessed what wrong? This didn't have to be a HISTORICALLY bad defense last year. This team totally underachieved for a couple of seasons and the talent level was good enough to complete for a playoff spot last year...not win it all like this year, but at least be .500. Nobody thought we'd have the worst d in the NFL. Most fans thought we would compete for a playoff spot last year.

Well nobody thought we'd draft Kareem Jackson in the first round (mind you we just lost our best CB to FA). I'm not a KJ basher, but he basically was our Dunta Robinson replacement last year (there is usually a dropoff between rookie and vet). We also lost Demeco Ryans early in the season. In hindsight it's not as surprising if you weigh the circumstances. Of course I was not totally shocked (was upset) when we did not make the playoffs, if you think about how bad our defense was early on. Then we have the injury to Demeco in week 6, right before the bye. We just never got better on the defensive side of the ball.

Lucky
01-28-2012, 12:43 PM
Is it just me that dislikes thread titles without the topic included?

Subtract Okoye, Pollard, Wilson, and Diles and add Watt, Joseph, Manning, and Reed. Yes, that's an upgrade in talent. But the biggest upgrade was Phillips over what was here before. Without Wade, the new players wouldn't have made the impact that occurred.

badboy
01-28-2012, 10:32 PM
Or are the Texans one of the deepest, most talent rich teams in the NFL right now? It's strange to think back just a few years ago where I could point out so many glaring holes on the depth chart. League's worst secondary, Demeco was the only really good linebacker, zero interior pressure, slightly-above-average O-line. All of the sudden the Texans have a top 5 RB with a starter-caliber backup, a top 5 O-line, an amazing front seven, one of the greatest emerging MLB talents in the league (and he's not named Demeco), a pretty good secondary. Crazy.

So, how did this happen?

Is the front office getting a lot better at evaluating talent? Is the coaching staff developing players better?

Were the Texans not as mediocre as I used to think, and are they not as good as I think they are now? Or was it just some dumb luck?i am going with low risk moves:
Signing Wade Phillips historically a 3-4 defensive genius
drafting Watt safest pick in draft
drafting Reed who most thought was a first round talent as did I.
signing Joseph who most thought was second best CB FA available
signing FS Manning best FA at his position which also was a priority
hitting on UDFA Arian Foster and not giving up on him.

All low risk high reward. Other things were signifcant but these are the key. It should only get better. Many are focusing on Mario but I think Matt Schaub decision in 2013 wil cause even longer threads. :roast:

badboy
01-28-2012, 10:37 PM
Well nobody thought we'd draft Kareem Jackson in the first round (mind you we just lost our best CB to FA). I'm not a KJ basher, but he basically was our Dunta Robinson replacement last year (there is usually a dropoff between rookie and vet). We also lost Demeco Ryans early in the season. In hindsight it's not as surprising if you weigh the circumstances. Of course I was not totally shocked (was upset) when we did not make the playoffs, if you think about how bad our defense was early on. Then we have the injury to Demeco in week 6, right before the bye. We just never got better on the defensive side of the ball.Also, Cushing and Duane Brown had better seasons

badboy
01-28-2012, 10:38 PM
Is it just me that dislikes thread titles without the topic included?
Subtract Okoye, Pollard, Wilson, and Diles and add Watt, Joseph, Manning, and Reed. Yes, that's an upgrade in talent. But the biggest upgrade was Phillips over what was here before. Without Wade, the new players wouldn't have made the impact that occurred.nah, I just usually open them later.

SAMURAITEXAN
01-29-2012, 01:56 AM
Like I have been saying in other threads. In Wade We Trust. He is the biggest signing last season. Of course, we did have enough talent to go at least .500 in 2010. You guys know the rest of the story. (Coaching, Coaching, Coaching)

Go Texans!!!

thunderkyss
01-29-2012, 08:53 PM
this is the reason Kubiak had so much heat from the fans the last two seasons before this one...the talent didn't just pop up out of nowhere this season. This is the first season in a few years where I don't think the team underachieved.

I agree, the talent has been there.... but not the quantity. Our back-ups (while I wouldn't say they could start for other teams) aren't the liability they used to be. Sharpton got hurt.... Demeco get's more time. Foster missed the first couple of games, our 2nd round pick from the prior year steps right in. James Casey gets hurt, Vickers.... a better blocker to begin with steps in.

Mario gets hurt again, two 2nd round picks step up.




What happened this year was something many have been calling for since the second dismal year with Richard Smith. Hire a DC with a track record of fielding good defenses.

Point is they got a DC in who knows what they are doing and that IMO made the difference between another lukewarm .500ish season into one that gave us a playoff berth and win at home.

Wade Phillips. That is what occurred.

Again, I think the talent thing had as much if not more to do with it. Before the season started, we lost Tim Bulman.... not a "great" talent, but a major part of our pass rush in 2010. Then we lose Barwin the very first game of the season.... who was Frank Bush supposed to turn to then?

Cushing was on maternity leave, then Demeco had his Achilles... I remember we signed a LB off the street on a Tuesday & he was playing starter's minutes that Sunday.

Wilson gets hurt (he appeared to have lost a step at the beginning of the season) we put Nolan in the game to cover Kj's mistakes.... blind leading the blind, they were both basically rookies with Bernard Pollard teaching them the finer points of covering WRs.

Yes, I'm much happier with Wade Phillips than Frank Bush, but Bush was a goat..... 2010 was more of a depth issue than a coaching issue.

Titans Sux 72
01-30-2012, 11:22 AM
Well, in past years, we were all looking forward to the draft before the season ended. That didn't happen this year. I'm not even worried about who the Texans will pick this year. I'll watch with interest, but this year I'm more curious about the players picked rather than worried about fixing the team.

Some very good points in this post. It. Will be nice to draft for depth not need. They still have to make sound picks but it's not life or death as it has been for the last 10 yrs.