PDA

View Full Version : Solomon sees disturbing trend with Phillips after first year DC


kingh99
01-21-2012, 09:27 AM
Works into the HC job by undermining existing HC. Abysmal second season as DC after record turnaround on defense first season. Yikes! What to think? Past experience indicator of future performance?


http://blog.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2012/01/so-when-will-wade-phillips-take-over-as-texans-head-coach/

TexanSam
01-21-2012, 10:06 AM
Terrible article. 4 jobs before coming to Houston. Two of the teams didn't do well his 2nd year there, two others did do well. What's his point?

rmartin65
01-21-2012, 10:12 AM
Terrible article. 4 jobs before coming to Houston. Two of the teams didn't do well his 2nd year there, two others did do well. What's his point?

Wont stop people from saying it. Last year I busted the myth that Wade wants smaller NTs, but that did not stop people from saying it.

"Still a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest".

EDIT- last 4 stops before the Texans-

Dallas Cowboys- Jay Ratliff, 293 lbs
San Diego Chargers- Jamal Williams, 348 lbs
Atlanta Falcons- Ed Jasper, 293 lbs
Buffalo Bills- Ted Washington, 365 lbs


Weights from pro-football-reference.com

TejasTom
01-21-2012, 10:37 AM
Without seeing roster moves and injuries this is meaningless.

disaacks3
01-21-2012, 10:42 AM
Solomon has to say SOMEthing during the off-season to keep readers interested. We finished #2, there isn't much room for improvement. Even the Ravens knew we'd have won w/ Schuab in there. The future is bright, no matter what a Boston reject says.

ObsiWan
01-21-2012, 11:00 AM
Without seeing roster moves and injuries this is meaningless.

Precisely.

Edit:
Someone commenting on the article brought up a very good point: When Wade came in, the team was coming off a "down year". The next season, after they went to the playoffs, said team moved up to face a playoff team schedule as opposed to a scrub team schedule.

...which causes me to wonder about what happens to us next year facing a playoff team's schedule.
:thinking:

Brisco_County
01-21-2012, 11:02 AM
"I don't believe in conspiracy theories. Now let me assert this conspiracy theory."

Rey
01-21-2012, 11:03 AM
Wont stop people from saying it. Last year I busted the myth that Wade wants smaller NTs, but that did not stop people from saying it.

"Still a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest".

EDIT- last 4 stops before the Texans-

Dallas Cowboys- Jay Ratliff, 293 lbs
San Diego Chargers- Jamal Williams, 348 lbs
Atlanta Falcons- Ed Jasper, 293 lbs
Buffalo Bills- Ted Washington, 365 lbs


Weights from pro-football-reference.com


Honestly, I haven't seen a lot of people saying that he wants small NT but rather that he doesn't require a gigantic one...

Playoffs
01-21-2012, 11:04 AM
Fire Wade!!!

TejasTom
01-21-2012, 11:07 AM
Fire Wade!!!

Hilarious!

rmartin65
01-21-2012, 11:10 AM
Honestly, I haven't seen a lot of people saying that he wants small NT but rather that he doesn't require a gigantic one...

Fair enough distinction. But I still think people are ranking bigger NTs lower because of their size, and not much else. In my opinion, the only trend when it comes to Wade's preferences in NTs is simply the best NT available. Wade will build the D around what he has.

Rey
01-21-2012, 11:18 AM
Fair enough distinction. But I still think people are ranking bigger NTs lower because of their size, and not much else. In my opinion, the only trend when it comes to Wade's preferences in NTs is simply the best NT available. Wade will build the D around what he has.

Agreed.

Brisco_County
01-21-2012, 12:55 PM
Works into the HC job by undermining existing HC. Abysmal second season as DC after record turnaround on defense first season. Yikes! What to think? Past experience indicator of future performance?


http://blog.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2012/01/so-when-will-wade-phillips-take-over-as-texans-head-coach/

Now that I've had time to think about it, it is valid to point out a pattern and discuss it. Yes, there are some similarities and coincidences. But let's also consider the differences. Were any of those defenses #1 or #2 in the league? Did they come back with the same personnel and coaches? Was there general stability within the organization?

There is a lot to consider, and the idea that Phillips doesn't give as much effort in his second year as DC is possible, but improbable.

cbs1507
01-21-2012, 01:05 PM
Precisely.

Edit:
Someone commenting on the article brought up a very good point: When Wade came in, the team was coming off a "down year". The next season, after they went to the playoffs, said team moved up to face a playoff team schedule as opposed to a scrub team schedule.

...which causes me to wonder about what happens to us next year facing a playoff team's schedule.
:thinking:

Guy your record from the previous season only controls 2 games a year. The other 14 are set in stone years ago. You play a home and away game against the teams in your division. You play 1 division within the conference, and 1 from the other conference. That leaves 2 games that are dictated by your previous standings. If you want to call that a "playoff team's schedule" so be it.

thunderkyss
01-21-2012, 01:21 PM
Now that I've had time to think about it, it is valid to point out a pattern and discuss it. Yes, there are some similarities and coincidences.

Which one of us would do anything different?

He didn't come here because of his undying devotion to Kubiak. He didn't come here because he wants to be Kubiak's Robin.

Wade's Batman & just like all you Alpha Males, he doesn't want to play second fiddle to no-one.

IMO, his best chance at taking the HC job, his defense would have to continue to perform at a high level.

If the defense falls apart, his opportunity to become HC goes with it.

So he's got to take care of his side of the ball. Kubiak has to take care of his side of the ball. Good things happen for the Texans if they do that.

But then what? Kubiak stays HC forever & Wade Phillips stays DC forever? Only because Kubiak was here first?

I don't know about that. If I want to be a HC & I want to be in Houston, I'm politicking for the Houston job.... even though there may not be an opening.

As HC, this is something Kubiak has to manage. He needs to learn why Phillips was successful & why Frank Bush wasn't & what Kubiak can do in the future to help his next Frank Bush be successful.

& he needs to persuade Rick Smith to aide in finding Wade Phillips his next HC job if he doesn't want it to be here in Houston... ah, another opportunity for Rick Smith to get out of that shadow....

Gotta love the NFL.

ChampionTexan
01-21-2012, 01:31 PM
Precisely.

Edit:
Someone commenting on the article brought up a very good point: When Wade came in, the team was coming off a "down year". The next season, after they went to the playoffs, said team moved up to face a playoff team schedule as opposed to a scrub team schedule.

...which causes me to wonder about what happens to us next year facing a playoff team's schedule.[
:thinking:

Guy your record from the previous season only controls 2 games a year. The other 14 are set in stone years ago. You play a home and away game against the teams in your division. You play 1 division within the conference, and 1 from the other conference. That leaves 2 games that are dictated by your previous standings. If you want to call that a "playoff team's schedule" so be it.

Plus, we're the only team in our division that doesn't have to play two games against last year's division champs!:kitten:

Lady.Gaga.3000
01-21-2012, 01:49 PM
I saw a disturbing trend last Saturday. Why did we target Kevin Walter 8 times? Why did Ben Tate not get to run the ball once? Why did we stop using Arian Foster in the last two possessions of the game? Why were out TE's only targeted four times? Wade Phillips kept us in the game Saturday and he has kept us in games all season. I'm not even a Phillips homer but he's done more for this franchise in one season than two head coaches have done in nine years. If anything the disturbing trend has been trending for a few years if you know what I mean.

thunderkyss
01-21-2012, 02:17 PM
I saw a disturbing trend last Saturday. Why did we target Kevin Walter 8 times?

First, the targets are a function of what the QB sees after the snap. I think we targeted Andre like 15 times. So a 2-1 ratio between your 1 & 2 WR doesn't sound that "out of whack"

Why weren't the tight ends targeted more? If that's your question, that's on Yates. I saw at least three times where the TE was wide open & would have moved the chains.


Why did Ben Tate not get to run the ball once?

I don't know. Tate should have been more involved, but Kubiak wanted the ball in Foster's hands. Don't know if we can blame him.

Why did we stop using Arian Foster in the last two possessions of the game?


I think Charlie Pallilo went over that pretty good. The last touch Arian had was a 7 yard loss (? blown up by Ray Lewis) a fumble, & a carry for -1 yards.

If you ask me, with 2:30 to go in the game, with three timeouts, you know the Raven's D is going to step up, but I'd ask my OL & Pro Bowl RB to step up as well. But that's me.

Why were out TE's only targeted four times?

Again, a function of the QB... you'll have to ask the 5th round rookie why he didn't see the whole field, or why he made the decisions he made.

Wade Phillips kept us in the game Saturday and he has kept us in games all season. I'm not even a Phillips homer but he's done more for this franchise in one season than two head coaches have done in nine years. If anything the disturbing trend has been trending for a few years if you know what I mean.

That's a dumbas$ way to look at it. We've got too many examples this year where awesome defenses alone won't get it done. Jacksonville, without an offense, they ranked 6th in total D. Their offense was 32nd in the league... a place our offense was before Kubiak (BK).

The Jags offense was 19th in the league with 30:03 T.O.P. we were 1st with 32:40.

They were 29th in ppg with 15.2 we were 10th with 23.8

Take Kubiak away from this team & we wouldn't have been in as many games as you think we were in.

There are more examples... Cleveland, Seattle, NYJets, & Philadelphia Eagles. All top 10 defenses with no offense. Didn't go anywhere. Throw the 1 & done Bengals in the mix & that's 6 top 10 defenses that did not do as well as we did.

Take off the hater glasses. Appreciate the team.

cbs1507
01-21-2012, 02:28 PM
I saw a disturbing trend last Saturday. Why did we target Kevin Walter 8 times? Why did Ben Tate not get to run the ball once? Why did we stop using Arian Foster in the last two possessions of the game? Why were out TE's only targeted four times? Wade Phillips kept us in the game Saturday and he has kept us in games all season. I'm not even a Phillips homer but he's done more for this franchise in one season than two head coaches have done in nine years. If anything the disturbing trend has been trending for a few years if you know what I mean.

Kubiak does not tell Yates who to throw it to. Defensive coverage dictates it. Yates is the reason that only the #1 option was targeted all game. Even though some plays had 5 options he still threw it to the #1 option with double and triple coverage. The only credit Phillips deserves is shoring up our defense. We had the pieces just nobody to put them together and make it work. That's all he deserves. People are giving him too much credit. I understand some people don't like Kubiak and that's fine. But he had this team competing in every game for the past 5 seasons without a defense. Now we get what we obviously needed (a good defensive coordinator) and he gets all the credit for our turnaround. I just don't get it.

Lady.Gaga.3000
01-21-2012, 03:04 PM
Arian Foster has three plays of no yards so we stop giving him the ball? Ok.
T.J. Yates has x amount of bad throws so we keep letting him throw? If Yates was the reason we were losing than why was he kept in there? I know Delhomme probably would have sucked even worse but the point is just because he was having a recent bad series doesn't mean we abandon him all together.

We had a game plan to let Foster touch the ball 32 times. It was working better than any other offensive factor all game and at times it was working with 8 in the box. And then we stopped using it.

Is it T.J. Yates fault that we stopped using Arian Foster and were calling deep bombs when we had time? If Yates was already making questionably bad calls all game, why were we still letting him even have the option for a high risk throw? Even with a single high safety, the defense didn't show Andre Johnson wide open. He stared down Johnson and made up his mind and chucked it up. It's a horrible decision by Yates, but I'm not mad at him because he's a rookie playing a very good defense. I'm mad at the play calling that did not put him in a position to succeed. He shouldn't even have the option to throw it deep. We had TWO minutes left at the Baltimore 38. There shouldn't be a route going deep unless it were to draw the safety away. Think about that. Two minute warning and we are 38 yards from scoring. And then we call a route that Yates hasn't been executing all game.

Joe Texan
01-21-2012, 03:40 PM
Isn't Soloman the guy who trashes the Texans regulary because he is a baseball guru with a football hard on. I really give a lot of people on this board more credit than any Microphone Jockey or Rag writer in Houston. Seems that the only way the Stations can get a Jockey is if they come from another state. Hell the Texans had to Pull Mark V from Florida. I wish they would promote the Houston Skilled and kick the forieners to the curb. I will end with Josh Ennis is terrible and makes Rich Lord Look Bad as if he needed help.

cbs1507
01-21-2012, 03:42 PM
Arian Foster has three plays of no yards so we stop giving him the ball? Ok.
T.J. Yates has x amount of bad throws so we keep letting him throw? If Yates was the reason we were losing than why was he kept in there? I know Delhomme probably would have sucked even worse but the point is just because he was having a recent bad series doesn't mean we abandon him all together.

We had a game plan to let Foster touch the ball 32 times. It was working better than any other offensive factor all game and at times it was working with 8 in the box. And then we stopped using it.

Is it T.J. Yates fault that we stopped using Arian Foster and were calling deep bombs when we had time? If Yates was already making questionably bad calls all game, why were we still letting him even have the option for a high risk throw? Even with a single high safety, the defense didn't show Andre Johnson wide open. He stared down Johnson and made up his mind and chucked it up. It's a horrible decision by Yates, but I'm not mad at him because he's a rookie playing a very good defense. I'm mad at the play calling that did not put him in a position to succeed. He shouldn't even have the option to throw it deep. We had TWO minutes left at the Baltimore 38. There shouldn't be a route going deep unless it were to draw the safety away. Think about that. Two minute warning and we are 38 yards from scoring. And then we call a route that Yates hasn't been executing all game.

Look I get where you are coming from. Foster was our best player, but he did most of his damage in the 2nd quarter. There defense tighten up on us and it became inevitable that we needed Yates to make some plays if we were to win. I'm sorry running 3 times in a row was not going to move the chains. Screens weren't going to work either.

BTW if the coach calls a pass play with 5 options and one of those 5 options gets double or triple teamed...do you honestly consider that bad playcalling?

Just touch on your gripe about being on the 38 with 2 minutes left. The deep route clearly drew a safety because the safety intercepted the ball, with a CB underneath. There were 5 options on the play. He chose the double covered one. Walter and Daniels had 1 on 1 over the middle. If that is bad playcalling, so be it.

I could do a breakdown of what happened on every INT, but I'll just keep it short and tell you they had nothing to do with playcalling. If you want the ball in Foster's hand Yates had a chance to do that on the plass plays. He missed out on that opportunity. Which was surprising to me because during the 3 games slide all he did was checkdown to Foster or a TE. I think the main issue was confidence. Yates wanted to go to AJ because he felt more comfortable throwing to our best player. That's is more of a rookie mistake than a playcalling issue. To blame playcalling for it, is just a cop out IMO.

thunderkyss
01-21-2012, 03:55 PM
Arian Foster has three plays of no yards so we stop giving him the ball? Ok.
T.J. Yates has x amount of bad throws so we keep letting him throw? If Yates was the reason we were losing than why was he kept in there? I know Delhomme probably would have sucked even worse but the point is just because he was having a recent bad series doesn't mean we abandon him all together.

We had a game plan to let Foster touch the ball 32 times. It was working better than any other offensive factor all game and at times it was working with 8 in the box. And then we stopped using it.

Is it T.J. Yates fault that we stopped using Arian Foster and were calling deep bombs when we had time? If Yates was already making questionably bad calls all game, why were we still letting him even have the option for a high risk throw? Even with a single high safety, the defense didn't show Andre Johnson wide open. He stared down Johnson and made up his mind and chucked it up. It's a horrible decision by Yates, but I'm not mad at him because he's a rookie playing a very good defense. I'm mad at the play calling that did not put him in a position to succeed. He shouldn't even have the option to throw it deep. We had TWO minutes left at the Baltimore 38. There shouldn't be a route going deep unless it were to draw the safety away. Think about that. Two minute warning and we are 38 yards from scoring. And then we call a route that Yates hasn't been executing all game.

Again, you have a poor understanding of play calling. Just because the ball was thrown deep doesn't mean that was the call. On the INT to Andre, OD was wide open in the middle of the field. It would have been a good pick-up, but not what I would call deep.

As far as going away from Foster... I didn't say it was a good decision, I said that was Charlie Pallilo's understanding & it made sense. The defense wasn't going to let Foster win the game...

Before the last int to Andre, Yates threw like three strikes picking up 13+ yards each time... I personally thought it was a good time to go back to the ground to keep the defense honest...

But we didn't.

thunderkyss
01-21-2012, 03:59 PM
I think the main issue was confidence. Yates wanted to go to AJ because he felt more comfortable throwing to our best player. That's is more of a rookie mistake than a playcalling issue. To blame playcalling for it, is just a cop out IMO.

Even on that INT, I think the decision was right, he just took too long to pull the trigger. Had he thrown the ball earlier, he wouldn't have had to throw it so deep, Reed wouldn't have got to it & Andre would have had a better play on it.

Poor confidence may have led him to holding it too long.

cbs1507
01-21-2012, 04:05 PM
Even on that INT, I think the decision was right, he just took too long to pull the trigger. Had he thrown the ball earlier, he wouldn't have had to throw it so deep, Reed wouldn't have got to it & Andre would have had a better play on it.

Poor confidence may have led him to holding it too long.

That's why I think it was a good call. Kubiak noticed this so he wanted to show Yates he had confidence in him. Yates looked off to the middle, but as you said he hesitated. Could we have mix in a run or 2? Most definitely. But to be honest, taking a shot to the endzone on 1st down is not a bad decision IMO. If Yates doesn't hesitate, it could be a TD. Also, he had Walter and Daniels over the middle with 1 on 1 since Reed went over to AJ after the hesitation. It's not like their pass rush was getting to him that game (or on that play).

Bulls on Parade
01-21-2012, 04:17 PM
I'm excited to see what Wade can do with a full season of Mario Williams at outside linebacker. He's the strongest and most dominating defensive player in the league. Nobody can block him one on one when he's playing at a high level. Not even sure two guys can stop him.

jaayteetx
01-21-2012, 04:38 PM
I'm excited to see what Wade can do with a full season of Mario Williams at outside linebacker. He's the strongest and most dominating defensive player in the league. Nobody can block him one on one when he's playing at a high level. Not even sure two guys can stop him.

Thats highly debatable, I personally haven't seen it. Good, yes, most dominating, uhh, no.

ArlingtonTexan
01-21-2012, 06:48 PM
Solomon has to say SOMEthing during the off-season to keep readers interested. We finished #2, there isn't much room for improvement. Even the Ravens knew we'd have won w/ Schuab in there. The future is bright, no matter what a Boston reject says.

It could be a case where the Texans defense is actually better, but the stats don't show. W/o taking into account injuries the Texans will face Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, and Cutler. Almost too much goodness for them to rank that highly. Does not mean that the defense won't be effective.

thunderkyss
01-21-2012, 07:06 PM
It could be a case where the Texans defense is actually better, but the stats don't show. W/o taking into account injuries the Texans will face Tebow Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, and Cutler. Almost too much goodness for them to rank that highly. Does not mean that the defense won't be effective.

Fixed it for you. Looks more difficult that way.

kingh99
01-21-2012, 07:15 PM
Now that I've had time to think about it, it is valid to point out a pattern and discuss it. Yes, there are some similarities and coincidences. But let's also consider the differences. Were any of those defenses #1 or #2 in the league? Did they come back with the same personnel and coaches? Was there general stability within the organization?

There is a lot to consider, and the idea that Phillips doesn't give as much effort in his second year as DC is possible, but improbable.

Okay so I am doing what Solomon wouldn't/couldn't do. I'm looking into the circumstances of each instance when DC Wade took over as HC for a troubled HC. First Episode. QB HC butting heads in Denver. Reason? John Elway in his early prime years was in open rebellion against fixture HC/GM Dan Reeves. Reeves went so far as draft Tommy Maddox in the first f-ing round in 92! :vincepalm:

Are you kidding me? John Elway is your starting QB in his prime and you draft a QB in the 1st round? Long story short, Wade was a shoulder to lean on for Elway and the obvious one he would endorse when Reeves was finally deposed. We all know what happened next. Wade, having served his purpose, was jettisoned by Elway in favor of Mike Shanahan who along with big John, rode Terrell Davis to Superbowl glory.

Score Wade 1 Hype 0. The digging continues....

ArlingtonTexan
01-21-2012, 07:16 PM
Fixed it for you. Looks more difficult that way.

I don't know whether to :vincepalm: or :spit:

thunderkyss
01-21-2012, 07:33 PM
Are you kidding me? John Elway is your starting QB in his prime and you draft a QB in the 1st round? Long story short, Wade was a shoulder to lean on for Elway and the obvious one he would endorse when Reeves was finally deposed. We all know what happened next. Wade, having served his purpose, was jettisoned by Elway in favor of Mike Shanahan who along with big John, rode Terrell Davis to Superbowl glory.

Score Wade 1 Hype 0. The digging continues....

The DC is a shoulder to cry on for the starting QB? Sounds a little fishy to me.

Wade 0 Hype ~1

.

kingh99
01-21-2012, 07:35 PM
Okay pt 2, Wade takes over in Buffalo 1998. Here we have a case of the existing successful HC, Marv Levy, losing his allstar QB Jim Kelly to retirement. New QB Todd Collins ends up not getting the job done, and Levy is replaced by Phillips going into 1998.

Second instance of the winding down or pause in the playoff run of a team led by a charismatic, historic figure at QB factoring into Wade getting picked. At Denver the offense was taken care of by virtue of a dominant QB and the need was perceived to be at defense and Buffalo because his defense still performed after the dominant QB left and was replaced by a dud - Todd Collins.

Nothing like this exists at the QB position in Houston today. We can only dream of those sort of power plays afters years of being a big time player in the playoffs. If anything this says Kubiak better keep top competition at QB so there is always a great player ready at the helm.

Fast fwd, tired of posting, 2003 Wade takes over for Dan Reeves (again@@, sounds like Dan didn't hold Denver against Wade) at Atlanta. Too funny. Probably some donkey like whats his name Miller at QB. Next stop Dallas.

Wade 2 Hype 0

False Start
01-22-2012, 09:18 AM
I see a disturbing trend with Solomon, his articles keep getting worse, and worse, and I didn't think that was possible. He has replaced Dick Justice as the new Chronic dumb ass. :dontknowa

GP
01-22-2012, 10:15 AM
I won't read the article. Waste of time.

TK has it right when he says Wade can't get a HC job if the Texans defense takes several steps backwards in season 2.

The key to this is that Kubiak's offense has to continue making forward progress. If it doesn't, then the whole thing will fall apart...this isn't about Wade vs. Kubiak, this is about two coaches pulling the cart equally and the cart (the whole team) going into the ditch if one falters badly. Who gets the blame is not important, the whole team will suffer for it. So it's up to both guys to keep the cart on the road and out of the ditch.

The one wild card here is Wade's seemingly endless obsession with being a HC again. I am hoping that him not getting any offers or even any serious consideration from the Rams, Bucs, Fins, Raiders, Jaguars, Colts, etc., will suppress that urge in the future.

I want Kubiak and Wade to settle into their roles for many years here, building up their respective sides of the ball. This could be a Patriots-type dynasty team if those two guys disregard the bull**** and just focus on their jobs.

McNair and Smith should be creating a team culture/environment whereby Kubiak is head coach of the offense and Wade head coach of the defense. This lets both guys get the glory for what they do best, this means "I can't succeed without you, and you can't succeed without me." This is called being a T-E-A-M.

thunderkyss
01-22-2012, 10:42 AM
The one wild card here is Wade's seemingly endless obsession with being a HC again. I am hoping that him not getting any offers or even any serious consideration from the Rams, Bucs, Fins, Raiders, Jaguars, Colts, etc., will suppress that urge in the future.



Is this even realistic?

Have you ever stopped & thought to yourself, "I'm not good enough to succeed at the next level"?

Especially knowing you have a better record than many of the guys highly sought after for HC openings?

Another trait of a successful HC, is being able to develop people. If I'm Kubiak, I'm going to help Wade find out why the perception is that he can not be a good HC & try to help him overcome that perception & get a job as a HC, whether that is as my replacement in Houston, or my competitor in Jacksonville.

I understand that Kubiak trying to help a coordinator become successful as a HC just flies in the face of logic, but it is what it is. He is in a position where he should be helping his staff develop & advance.

If Wade wants to be a HC, I'm going to help him get there. If he wants to be the greatest DC of all-time, I'm going to help him get there.

playa465
01-22-2012, 12:26 PM
Another trait of a successful HC, is being able to develop people. If I'm Kubiak, I'm going to help Wade find out why the perception is that he can not be a good HC & try to help him overcome that perception & get a job as a HC, whether that is as my replacement in Houston, or my competitor in Jacksonville.


The problem with this is Kubiak is NOT a successful HC yet. I don't think Kubiak gives a rat's azz about Wade's development. Hell Wade probably has a better chance of helping Kubiak to develop into a better HC. With that being said, I truly believe the best scenario is for them to co-exist for years. I don't think there is any gripe between the two, and I just see it a win-win situation for both and the Texans. I want Wade to the Texans as Dick LeBeau is to the Steelers.

Buffi2
01-22-2012, 12:32 PM
Is this even realistic?

Have you ever stopped & thought to yourself, "I'm not good enough to succeed at the next level"?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - by the time you are Wade's age, you should be as aware of your limitations as you are of those things you do well. As good as Wade is as a DC, he really should be proud of who he is and work even harder on being a Defensive Head Coach.

I agree that an HC should build success with his coaches, but right now Kubiak has his hands full building his own success.

Hardcore Texan
01-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Was JJ Watt, JJo, and Cushing on those teams? :texanbill:

thunderkyss
01-22-2012, 07:25 PM
...I truly believe the best scenario is for them to co-exist for years. I don't think there is any gripe between the two, and I just see it a win-win situation for both and the Texans. I want Wade to the Texans as Dick LeBeau is to the Steelers.

it's a win for everyone except Phillips who wants to be a head coach.

SheTexan
01-24-2012, 10:38 AM
I see a disturbing trend with Solomon, his articles keep getting worse, and worse, and I didn't think that was possible. He has replaced Dick Justice as the new Chronic dumb ass. :dontknowa

Exactly!! I think he took lessons from Justice before he left. I saw him on some news show the other night and wanted to shoot my TV! I think he might be a bigger dumbass than RJ, and I didn't think that was possible.

GP
01-24-2012, 11:07 AM
Is this even realistic?

Have you ever stopped & thought to yourself, "I'm not good enough to succeed at the next level"?

Especially knowing you have a better record than many of the guys highly sought after for HC openings?

Another trait of a successful HC, is being able to develop people. If I'm Kubiak, I'm going to help Wade find out why the perception is that he can not be a good HC & try to help him overcome that perception & get a job as a HC, whether that is as my replacement in Houston, or my competitor in Jacksonville.

I understand that Kubiak trying to help a coordinator become successful as a HC just flies in the face of logic, but it is what it is. He is in a position where he should be helping his staff develop & advance.

If Wade wants to be a HC, I'm going to help him get there. If he wants to be the greatest DC of all-time, I'm going to help him get there.

1. Yeah, I'm only 35 but I am definitely learning what I can and cannot do. Accepting your limitations, rather than straining against them, helps you to learn what your strengths are and allows you to succeed MORE in the areas of your strength. You know perfectly well that people get into jobs all the time, and for practical reasons they get fired because their skill set and other factors wasn't suited to the line of work. It's a natural process, you cannot force people to become things you (or they) think they should be. Read "First Break All The Rules" for a fantastic explanation of this principle.

2. Why on earth would I try and help an underling get MY job? LOL. It's my job until I prove it's not mine anymore. I'm not coming to work every day thinking, "Gee, I need to help little Timmy get MY job. Now THAT would make me a bigger success." Uh, no. Little Timmy has to earn his way like everyone else. What is with this line of thinking, TK? It flies in the face of everything American. It sounds very nuanced and very California Liberal Dem to me. "Hey, let's all replace ourselves and boost the guy(s) underneath us! Oh ****, now I'm unemployed or now I have Timmy's sucky job and I make less money now." Yeah, that's going to fly with the wife when you come home and tell her you just helped someone get your job and now your family budget shrunk...or disappeared because you sabotaged yourself. This is really a WTH? statement by you if I've ever heard one. You get 2 days to have a do-over, a mulligan, on it.

I think Gary knows full well that Wade is always angling for his job. I think he knew the minute Bud Adams had that lunch with McNair this time last year that he (Kubiak) better watch his own ass. It is what it is. Wade is bitter, he's older, he has health problems that old people naturally have at his age, he got pissed off that he wasn't a serious frontrunner for the Bucs job so he pulled a Walter Matthau and told them to go screw themselves. If anything, like Buffi said, he needs to accept his state of being and just embrace it fully. He'll be happier, his family will be happier, and WE will be happier too.

It really is a pretty easy analysis, IMO. But hey, if trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results is Wade's boat floater then by all means he can keep on trucking' with that philosophy. Free country and all that jazz...

GP
01-24-2012, 11:13 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again - by the time you are Wade's age, you should be as aware of your limitations as you are of those things you do well. As good as Wade is as a DC, he really should be proud of who he is and work even harder on being a Defensive Head Coach.

I agree that an HC should build success with his coaches, but right now Kubiak has his hands full building his own success.

Tried to rep you, but I have to spread it around.

If anybody out there is in management, you need to read "First Break All the Rules." It is mind-blowing how simple the management of people, whether it's in a business or on a team, can be. The first thing you have to do is identify what the person does VERY well and let them do it...very well. The last thing you do is promote someone to the level of their incompetence, and if you DO advance the person and they start failing...you allow them step back down into the position where they had the best success.

Unfortunately, most organizational climates/environments are set up to where the person keeps getting promoted, keeps getting promoted, and then BAM! they fail and they get fired. Companies drain themselves of GREAT employees by doing this. They lose a team player at a valuable position and they say " Well, poor old Jim just couldn't hack it anymore. Had to let him go." The best places to work for, they allow you to go back doing what you did before. But it's rare. By the time you fail at your promotion, they've already hired someone else for your old job. Smart companies give a buffer zone of time before they hire for the old position, allowing you to step back into it if you cannot handle the next level.

All of this is a direct reflection of Wade Phillips' NFL career. The moment he gets promoted to the level of his incompetence, he slowly fails and he gets fired. Then he steps into the role he's born for (d-coord) and he succeeds. Then he gets promoted, and he fails.

"At some point, a man's gotta' know his limitations..." - Clint Eastwood

thunderkyss
01-24-2012, 11:36 AM
1. Yeah, I'm only 35 but I am definitely learning what I can and cannot do. Accepting your limitations, rather than straining against them, helps you to learn what your strengths are and allows you to succeed MORE in the areas of your strength.

So what are his limitations? If it's about wins, the teams he has left have been winners more times than not.

2. Why on earth would I try and help an underling get MY job?

That's the only way you can advance. Or should be. If you're going to succeed in a leadership position, you need to be able to develop people. You should be developing your Interns to become position coaches, your position coaches to become coordinators, & your coordinators to become HCs. & you'll make a fine HC/GM, or VP of football operations.

If I am doing that, then it doesn't make sense to fire me for the guy I trained. Even if he's a backstabb'n SOB..... but if they do, so what. I'll get another job somewhere else, a better job.


LOL. It's my job until I prove it's not mine anymore. I'm not coming to work every day thinking, "Gee, I need to help little Timmy get MY job. Now THAT would make me a bigger success." Uh, no. Little Timmy has to earn his way like everyone else. What is with this line of thinking, TK? It flies in the face of everything American. It sounds very nuanced and very California Liberal Dem to me. "Hey, let's all replace ourselves and boost the guy(s) underneath us! Oh ****, now I'm unemployed or now I have Timmy's sucky job and I make less money now." Yeah, that's going to fly with the wife when you come home and tell her you just helped someone get your job and now your family budget shrunk...or disappeared because you sabotaged yourself. This is really a WTH? statement by you if I've ever heard one. You get 2 days to have a do-over, a mulligan, on it.

Uh..... I'm not going to be unemployed, I've been angling for my bosses job & he's helping me to get it.

I think Gary knows full well that Wade is always angling for his job. I think he knew the minute Bud Adams had that lunch with McNair this time last year that he (Kubiak) better watch his own ass. It is what it is. Wade is bitter, he's older, he has health problems that old people naturally have at his age, he got pissed off that he wasn't a serious frontrunner for the Bucs job so he pulled a Walter Matthau and told them to go screw themselves. If anything, like Buffi said, he needs to accept his state of being and just embrace it fully. He'll be happier, his family will be happier, and WE will be happier too.

Kubiak can stand a little competition, just like Cushing & Demeco, Kj & Allen.... It makes for a better product on the field.

Again, if Wade wants to be a head coach, who are you to tell him that he can't? Especially when he's proven time & time again, that he can.


It really is a pretty easy analysis, IMO. But hey, if trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results is Wade's boat floater then by all means he can keep on trucking' with that philosophy. Free country and all that jazz...

He'll get your team to the play-offs. Done it every time, as a coordinator or a head coach.

Blake
01-24-2012, 12:16 PM
Solomon has slithered into the void left by Justice just fine. And the Chronicle has its next pot stirrer.

Double Barrel
01-24-2012, 12:22 PM
Fire Wade!!!

Hire Dom!!! :evil:

GP
01-24-2012, 01:13 PM
So what are his limitations? If it's about wins, the teams he has left have been winners more times than not.

But he loses them as a whole, he loses the TEAM after a period of time. The inmates begin running the asylum, TK. THAT is why Kubiak had this team playing in the playoffs this year: He has been a hard ass when he needs to be, and a shoulder to lean on when he has to be that as well. Wade is a softie. Ex-players of his have either directly said so or have hinted at it. His trend is that he starts off well, then fades as the race gets into the final laps. No staying power.

That's the only way you can advance. Or should be. If you're going to succeed in a leadership position, you need to be able to develop people. You should be developing your Interns to become position coaches, your position coaches to become coordinators, & your coordinators to become HCs. & you'll make a fine HC/GM, or VP of football operations.

I see no reason why an NFL head coach would see it as his job or duty to try and get his staff into his own job. If he's doing that, he's spending too much time mentoring and he's not focused on beating the brains out of his opponent every weekend. Does he try to be a good person and help them? Yes. Does he make it his goal to make them HC's? No, that's not his focus. It shouldn't be. If it is, then he needs to be a life coach, not a head coach.

If I am doing that, then it doesn't make sense to fire me for the guy I trained. Even if he's a backstabb'n SOB..... but if they do, so what. I'll get another job somewhere else, a better job.

That's pretty pie-in-the-sky thinking. It sounds good on a motivational poster, but it doesn't wash. Your job is to be the best at what you do every day, no holds barred, and to make others EARN your spot. Not to do things to help them get what you earned. Now, if you happen to work in a job where it is a corporate culture that everybody helps everybody and you actually get HUGE rewards for helping people ascend the ladder...and you, yourself, get bumped up the ladder, then so be it. But are you going to sit here and say that this is the way it's done in the Texans organization? I doubt it's that way, TK.


Uh..... I'm not going to be unemployed, I've been angling for my bosses job & he's helping me to get it.

Where does he go when you get his job? I'm genuinely curious. And then the spot that he gets, what happens to that guy? The company keeps creating or moving people and paying more each time? It's unsustainable (unless your job has some crazy wicked awesome economics going on).

Kubiak can stand a little competition, just like Cushing & Demeco, Kj & Allen.... It makes for a better product on the field.

Again, if Wade wants to be a head coach, who are you to tell him that he can't? Especially when he's proven time & time again, that he can.

I'm not going to tell him, TK. Life is telling him for me. His experiences are slapping him right in his kisser, I'm just making commentary on it. I see a pig, I call it a pig. I see a duck, I call it a duck. Pretty easy analysis on all accounts.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have the urge to be a HC again. I'm saying sometimes you knock on doors that won't open and you have to trust that it's not THE definitive statement on who you are as a person, you're self worth. I would like to see him be THE best d-coord in the NFL and spank the Capers and LeBeaus of the NFL d-coord tree. Dom surely is a happier man being a key contributor on a Super Bowl team that also reached the NFC Divisional round the very next year. That's gotta' be more rewarding than being the HC of a team that spirals downward and gets you ran out of town. I would think.

He'll get your team to the play-offs. Done it every time, as a coordinator or a head coach.

My responses in red, above.

thunderkyss
01-24-2012, 02:05 PM
But he loses them as a whole, he loses the TEAM after a period of time. The inmates begin running the asylum, TK. THAT is why Kubiak had this team playing in the playoffs this year: He has been a hard ass when he needs to be, and a shoulder to lean on when he has to be that as well. Wade is a softie. Ex-players of his have either directly said so or have hinted at it. His trend is that he starts off well, then fades as the race gets into the final laps. No staying power.

I've suspected as much, but I have yet to find anyone to say so, or have any evidence to support it.

I see no reason why an NFL head coach would see it as his job or duty to try and get his staff into his own job. If he's doing that, he's spending too much time mentoring and he's not focused on beating the brains out of his opponent every weekend. Does he try to be a good person and help them? Yes. Does he make it his goal to make them HC's? No, that's not his focus. It shouldn't be. If it is, then he needs to be a life coach, not a head coach.

The better your staff, the better you are.

That's pretty pie-in-the-sky thinking. It sounds good on a motivational poster, but it doesn't wash. Your job is to be the best at what you do every day, no holds barred, and to make others EARN your spot. Not to do things to help them get what you earned. Now, if you happen to work in a job where it is a corporate culture that everybody helps everybody and you actually get HUGE rewards for helping people ascend the ladder...and you, yourself, get bumped up the ladder, then so be it. But are you going to sit here and say that this is the way it's done in the Texans organization? I doubt it's that way, TK.


I'm saying that's the way it should be in every organization. If it's not like that in the Texans organization then something is wrong imo.

Now, one caveat. If Rick Dennison does not want to be a head coach.... so be it. No one is forcing him to be a HC. But the same things that would make him a good HC, would make him an excellent OC.

It's about teaching, developing, & motivating..

Where does he go when you get his job? I'm genuinely curious. And then the spot that he gets, what happens to that guy? The company keeps creating or moving people and paying more each time? It's unsustainable (unless your job has some crazy wicked awesome economics going on).

He can move laterally, or I can earn a position equal to his but in another dept. I do work Fortune 100 company, there are many positions available. We like to promote from within & yes, it's all about helping each other be successful.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have the urge to be a HC again. I'm saying sometimes you knock on doors that won't open and you have to trust that it's not THE definitive statement on who you are as a person, you're self worth.

Well, when he gets to that position, he can rethink his position. He was a HC last year & may very well have the opportunity in the future.

I would like to see him be THE best d-coord in the NFL and spank the Capers and LeBeaus of the NFL d-coord tree.

& who is playing the liberal now, setting goals for other people & holding them back from their own aspirations?

Wade said he would like to be a HC again.

Dom surely is a happier man being a key contributor on a Super Bowl team that also reached the NFC Divisional round the very next year. That's gotta' be more rewarding than being the HC of a team that spirals downward and gets you ran out of town. I would think.


You don't know that Dom is happier now, than if he would have had the opportunity to fix his mistakes here. & you don't know that Dom won't be able to be a better HC in the future, or Wade.

Dom may have learned exactly what he was lacking & developed those skills (i.e. developing his staff as well as his players).

A head coaches job goes way beyond what happens on Sunday.

Goldensilence
01-24-2012, 04:31 PM
I'm excited to see what Wade can do with a full season of Mario Williams at outside linebacker. He's the strongest and most dominating defensive player in the league. Nobody can block him one on one when he's playing at a high level. Not even sure two guys can stop him.

I guess this is my problem with retaining Mario. Without him the defense stepped up and really established itself as a relentless pressure defense based on high motor guys.

Mario has the physical attributes to be that dominate, I just don't see it often enough. He's never been known as a high motor guy.