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View Full Version : Hey, you stat guys ....


eriadoc
01-16-2012, 04:16 PM
How many batted balls did JJ Watt end up with?

brakos82
01-16-2012, 04:18 PM
How many batted balls did JJ Watt end up with?

More than the Astros had all of June. :astropalm:

eriadoc
01-16-2012, 04:20 PM
More than the Astros had all of June. :astropalm:

LOL, and that's why fishing season lasts from January to August.

badboy
01-16-2012, 04:22 PM
put your hands in the air and move them all about. Simple stuff but it took Wade Phillips to accomplish it.

amazing80
01-16-2012, 04:26 PM
nfl.com has him at 4, but im pretty sure it is MUCH more than that

thunderkyss
01-16-2012, 04:30 PM
put your hands in the air and move them all about. Simple stuff but it took Wade Phillips to accomplish it.

During the game they mentioned that Kubiak did not allow the defensive players to bat balls down during practice..

I thought, "no wonder our QBs seem to struggle with batted balls."

Then you wonder why CBs/LBs didn't get there hands on balls in pass coverage. Really, as a rookie, I was relieved to see Quin get his hands on so many balls. Like CBs were told to not knock balls down.

Playoffs
01-16-2012, 04:57 PM
How many batted balls did JJ Watt end up with?
4 -- 1 @Jax, 3@Indy

Barwin 7, Jamison/Cush 3, Mitchell/Cody/Reed/Smith 2, Williams/Quin/Demps 1.


includes Mitchell/Jamison/Cushing 1 each post-season.

infantrycak
01-16-2012, 05:00 PM
put your hands in the air and move them all about. Simple stuff but it took Wade Phillips to accomplish it.

It didn't take Wade. That was a noted characteristic of JJ's coming out of college.

During the game they mentioned that Kubiak did not allow the defensive players to bat balls down during practice.

Bull. They had a clip of Wade talking about how many times JJ had batted down and intercepted balls in practice to the degree they were surprised it took him so long to INT one in a game.

ChampionTexan
01-16-2012, 05:06 PM
During the game they mentioned that Kubiak did not allow the defensive players to bat balls down during practice..



Bull. They had a clip of Wade talking about how many times JJ had batted down and intercepted balls in practice to the degree they were surprised it took him so long to INT one in a game.

They actually said prior to Wade's arrival, Kubiak did not allow players to bat balls in practice. They specifically noted that the policy changed after Wade came aboard.

thunderkyss
01-16-2012, 06:06 PM
Bull. They had a clip of Wade talking about how many times JJ had batted down and intercepted balls in practice to the degree they were surprised it took him so long to INT one in a game.

They said Wade got that changed. Kubiak was saying no, then when Wade got here, he said they have to be able to.... that's how they practice, that's how they'll be able to do it in a game.


Before Wade got here, Kubiak didn't let the defense bat balls. Wade came & changed that.

Double Barrel
01-16-2012, 06:09 PM
I don't want to badmouth Kubiak after this season, but really???

Much like signing Jacoby for a three year deal....just really, really stupid. :dontknowa

eriadoc
01-16-2012, 06:45 PM
I don't want to badmouth Kubiak after this season, but really???

Much like signing Jacoby for a three year deal....just really, really stupid. :dontknowa

Yeah, I've tried really hard to lay off the Fire Kubiak rhetoric, but so many little things keep popping up that lead me to believe this team is winning despite some of the things he does - not that he doesn't do a lot of good as well.

48-50, though.

silvrhand
01-16-2012, 06:47 PM
Yeah, I've tried really hard to lay off the Fire Kubiak rhetoric, but so many little things keep popping up that lead me to believe this team is winning despite some of the things he does - not that he doesn't do a lot of good as well.

48-50, though.

He's learning on the job..

eriadoc
01-16-2012, 06:49 PM
He's learning on the job..

I know. That's what irritates me.

thunderkyss
01-16-2012, 07:13 PM
I know. That's what irritates me.

Will it be worth it if we go on to dominate this decade?

burro
01-16-2012, 07:35 PM
They said Wade got that changed. Kubiak was saying no, then when Wade got here, he said they have to be able to.... that's how they practice, that's how they'll be able to do it in a game.


Before Wade got here, Kubiak didn't let the defense bat balls. Wade came & changed that.

Can someone enlighten me as to what Kubiak would be trying to accomplish with such a policy?

Texan_Bill
01-16-2012, 07:40 PM
More than the Astros had all of June. :astropalm:

Werd!!! Dude!! That was awesome!!!! Repped!

Ruinondd
01-16-2012, 07:42 PM
The only thing I can think of is he didn't want the defense to "waste" quarterback practice throws by batting them down. Possibly being a quarterback and a qb coach all this time has blinded him to some obvious things defense needs to do to prepare.

mussop
01-16-2012, 07:48 PM
The only thing I can think of is he didn't want the defense to "waste" quarterback practice throws by batting them down. Possibly being a quarterback and a qb coach all this time has blinded him to some obvious things defense needs to do to prepare.

This is pretty much what was said. Didn't wantto waste reps.

Lucky
01-16-2012, 08:15 PM
They actually said prior to Wade's arrival, Kubiak did not allow players to bat balls in practice. They specifically noted that the policy changed after Wade came aboard.
Who is "they"? Is there a link? Because I'm pretty sure I've seen defenders bat passes during previous training camps.

Wolf
01-16-2012, 08:17 PM
Dan said it. He said wade put a stop to it and said he was going to bat balls down

thunderkyss
01-16-2012, 08:24 PM
The only thing I can think of is he didn't want the defense to "waste" quarterback practice throws by batting them down. Possibly being a quarterback and a qb coach all this time has blinded him to some obvious things defense needs to do to prepare.

Exactly... probably also why we had so much problem with defenses batting balls down. Our QBs just hadn't practiced against it.

ChampionTexan
01-16-2012, 09:03 PM
Who is "they"? Is there a link? Because I'm pretty sure I've seen defenders bat passes during previous training camps.

"They" equal the broadcast team of Dierdorf and Gumbel - specifically Dierdorf in terms of who made the comment.

eriadoc
01-16-2012, 09:49 PM
Will it be worth it if we go on to dominate this decade?

I don't know. There hasn't been anything he's done to make me think the same couldn't have been accomplished earlier by a more competent head coach. If he finally gets there, I'll be happy the team is there, and I'll do my best to forget about the "what ifs". If he does something to make me think the time was worth it, then I'll be happy about it. So far, he hasn't. He's just done things that wasted a lot of everyone's time and player's careers. He can still get there, but it doesn't erase two wasted years. It'll hopefully just make people forget about those wasted years.

thunderkyss
01-16-2012, 10:04 PM
He can still get there, but it doesn't erase two wasted years. It'll hopefully just make people forget about those wasted years.

Two wasted years?

2009 & 2010?

Lucky
01-16-2012, 11:35 PM
"They" equal the broadcast team of Dierdorf and Gumbel - specifically Dierdorf in terms of who made the comment.
Not buying that Kubiak had banned batting passes or that Dierdorf knows a damn thing about the Texans.

Accidentally typed "Dierdork" originally. Maybe it wasn't an accident.

Texanmike02
01-16-2012, 11:45 PM
Who is "they"? Is there a link? Because I'm pretty sure I've seen defenders bat passes during previous training camps.

It was on the broadcast of the game. I don't have a link but in the game (right after a pass was batted down by Cushing I think) One of the announcers said that Kubiak, being a former QB, did not let DL bat balls down. According to him Kubiak felt that it ruined the speed of practice and wasted reps by the QBs. He said that Wade came in and had it changed immediately.

Mike

ChampionTexan
01-17-2012, 01:01 AM
Not buying that Kubiak had banned batting passes or that Dierdorf knows a damn thing about the Texans.

Accidentally typed "Dierdork" originally. Maybe it wasn't an accident.

I just clarified a misstatement/omission of the poster who originally brought the comment up. I don't really care, I was just trying to get the statement accurately/completely communicated in the thread, not vouch for it's validity.

BullNation4Life
01-17-2012, 07:57 AM
Can someone enlighten me as to what Kubiak would be trying to accomplish with such a policy?

Kubiak is a former QB therefore he wanted his QBs to get the reps and confidence in making the throws and completing them. Pretty typical of an offensive minded coach...

BullNation4Life
01-17-2012, 07:59 AM
Not buying that Kubiak had banned batting passes or that Dierdorf knows a damn thing about the Texans.

Accidentally typed "Dierdork" originally. Maybe it wasn't an accident.

Actually not the first time I had heard of this. This was brought up several times by callers and McClain and even some defensive players, I think it was ND, said the same thing....

Dutchrudder
01-17-2012, 10:05 AM
I don't want to badmouth Kubiak after this season, but really???

Much like signing Jacoby for a three year deal....just really, really stupid. :dontknowa

No, it wasn't. I realize that JJ needs to be replaced now, but signing him for a 10 million deal over 3 years with 3 million guaranteed puts them in a position to cut him any time they want after this past season. It was essentially a 1 year deal with 2 years of team options. He made 3 million this past year, who else in free agency would have been a better option in hindsight?

Sidney Rice - Cost way more than JJ
Santonio Holmes - Cost way more than JJ
Braylon Edwards - Signed for 1 mill, cut 3/4ths of the way through the season, diva
Malcom Floyd - 2 years 5 million had a good year - slight upgrade from JJ production-wise
Steve Smith - Didn't play more than a few snaps this year
Randy Moss - didn't play this year
Plaxico Burress - Not the kind of guy kubiak goes for, but 1 year 3 mill is a good deal. Wouldn't mind picking him up this offseason.
Terrell Owens - Injury forced him to sit out
James Jones - Drops just as many balls as JJ, but has more home-run ability
Steve Breaston - Knees are shot, risky move, but had a much better year than JJ
Donte' Stallworth - Didn't do anything this year
Lance Moore - Retained by NO
Laurent Robinson - Played great this year for Dallas, they lucked out with him coming off injury
Roy Williams - Would anyone rather have his case of the drops over JJ's?
TJ Houshmandzadeh - Ended up doing nothing on the Raiders
Mike Sims-Walker - Was cut by the Rams early on
Legedu Naanee - Went to Carolina and had a decent year, not an upgrade over JJ
Brandon Stokley - 1 catch for 7 yards this year, but it was a good 7 yards.
Antonio Bryant - Signed a big deal with Cincy and didn't play a down for them
Mark Clayton - 3 catches for 26 yards this year. At least it was more than Stokley!
Micheal Spurlock - Crap
Maurice Stovall - Double crap.
Lots more cheap crap on the scrap heap after all those guys.

This WR free agency class sucked all around. Slim pickings and the best players cost way more than JJ. Only a couple of cheaper upgrades that we passed on, but no way of knowing how well they would do if we gave them JJ money. Plus you gotta figure in the lockout and shortened off-season, going with JJ was not a horrible decision. It was the right call at the time for continuity, unfortunately JJ wasn't up to the challenge.

Double Barrel
01-17-2012, 11:28 AM
'eh, Dutchrudder, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I have never thought much of Jacoby Jones, and last Sunday just confirmed the dread I have every time he touches the ball.

I personally thought Plaxico Burress should have been here to compete for the no. 2 spot, and he really wanted to play in Houston. But, the Texans and their squeaky clean standard would not allow him to make the cut, so we end up with the perpetual potential machine that never really justifies his existence in a roster spot.

eriadoc
01-17-2012, 12:05 PM
No, it wasn't. I realize that JJ needs to be replaced now, but signing him for a 10 million deal over 3 years with 3 million guaranteed puts them in a position to cut him any time they want after this past season. It was essentially a 1 year deal with 2 years of team options. He made 3 million this past year, who else in free agency would have been a better option in hindsight?

It's not necessarily who was available as a WR in free agency. The reason they retained him was because of his punt return "skills". So find a punt returner and spend some effort on one of the young guys. The 3rd WR on this team was pretty inconsequential this year, so the only way it was going to matter was if you put a guy out there that would actually hurt you, like Jacoby Jones. They essentially paid Jacoby Jones this year to screw things up.

Dutchrudder
01-17-2012, 01:21 PM
It's not necessarily who was available as a WR in free agency. The reason they retained him was because of his punt return "skills". So find a punt returner and spend some effort on one of the young guys. The 3rd WR on this team was pretty inconsequential this year, so the only way it was going to matter was if you put a guy out there that would actually hurt you, like Jacoby Jones. They essentially paid Jacoby Jones this year to screw things up.

Who exactly would take his spot as the 3rd WR? Lestar Jean (IR)? David Anderson (cut)? Dorin Dickerson (cut)? Terrence Toliver (cut)? Bryant Johnson (crap)? Derick Mason (too old)? Where exactly do we get another WR from this roster?

My point is free agency is the logical choice for the Texans to get a new WR in 2011 and that this past FA period was a crapshoot of terrible WRs. If we go another direction with the same amount of money, 9 times out of 10 we get worse at the WR position. People here were clamoring for guys like Braylon Edwards, Owens, Moss, Sims-walker, Steve Smith, Plaxico, Housh, Stallworth, etc... Only one of those guys worked out for their team. Kubiak knew what we had in JJ and kept him to play it safe (obvious pattern of course), but I'm not going to fault him for it.

It's not like there were a lot of returners out there to get. The best ones were Brad Smith who signed with the Bills for 3 years 15 mill and Eric Weems who re-signed with the Falcons for 1 year 1.2 million. Weems is a FA this offseason, but I don't think we can waste a roster spot on a return specialist alone. I believe the need will be addressed this offseason, and JJ will be replaced, but I really can't fault Kubiak for that decision. It could easily have been much worse.

Texecutioner
01-17-2012, 01:28 PM
No, it wasn't. I realize that JJ needs to be replaced now, but signing him for a 10 million deal over 3 years with 3 million guaranteed puts them in a position to cut him any time they want after this past season. It was essentially a 1 year deal with 2 years of team options. He made 3 million this past year, who else in free agency would have been a better option in hindsight?

Sidney Rice - Cost way more than JJ
Santonio Holmes - Cost way more than JJ
Braylon Edwards - Signed for 1 mill, cut 3/4ths of the way through the season, diva
Malcom Floyd - 2 years 5 million had a good year - slight upgrade from JJ production-wise
Steve Smith - Didn't play more than a few snaps this year
Randy Moss - didn't play this year
Plaxico Burress - Not the kind of guy kubiak goes for, but 1 year 3 mill is a good deal. Wouldn't mind picking him up this offseason.
Terrell Owens - Injury forced him to sit out
James Jones - Drops just as many balls as JJ, but has more home-run ability
Steve Breaston - Knees are shot, risky move, but had a much better year than JJ
Donte' Stallworth - Didn't do anything this year
Lance Moore - Retained by NO
Laurent Robinson - Played great this year for Dallas, they lucked out with him coming off injury
Roy Williams - Would anyone rather have his case of the drops over JJ's?
TJ Houshmandzadeh - Ended up doing nothing on the Raiders
Mike Sims-Walker - Was cut by the Rams early on
Legedu Naanee - Went to Carolina and had a decent year, not an upgrade over JJ
Brandon Stokley - 1 catch for 7 yards this year, but it was a good 7 yards.
Antonio Bryant - Signed a big deal with Cincy and didn't play a down for them
Mark Clayton - 3 catches for 26 yards this year. At least it was more than Stokley!
Micheal Spurlock - Crap
Maurice Stovall - Double crap.
Lots more cheap crap on the scrap heap after all those guys.

This WR free agency class sucked all around. Slim pickings and the best players cost way more than JJ. Only a couple of cheaper upgrades that we passed on, but no way of knowing how well they would do if we gave them JJ money. Plus you gotta figure in the lockout and shortened off-season, going with JJ was not a horrible decision. It was the right call at the time for continuity, unfortunately JJ wasn't up to the challenge.

That was a damn good list of guys that could have been good #2 WR's on this team. By providing that again, you proved the opposite of what your stance was in my eyes easily. You're also looking at it in hind sight now as well, and there is no reason to believe that the situations of all of those guys wouldn't have been better or even possibly worse here. The bottom line is that JJ never was any good over here, and he should have never gotten an extension. A ton of us bitched out the wazoo about it when it happened and listed many reasons why, and that signing bit us in the ass really bad in the return game and in the receiving game. Why he was still returning any kicks or punts at all this year has been a mystery this entire time.

You also left some names off of that list which were Chad JOhnson who sucked horribly even on the Patriots who many other fans in here wanted which amazed me.

Steve Smith from the panthers was available for a while for a trade and the Panthers only wanted like a 3rd rounder and something else. It was a total steal for what they were asking for. I talked about it for a while when he was available, but then him and Cam Newton developed a relationship and Smith wanted to stay in Carolina.

'eh, Dutchrudder, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I have never thought much of Jacoby Jones, and last Sunday just confirmed the dread I have every time he touches the ball.

I personally thought Plaxico Burress should have been here to compete for the no. 2 spot, and he really wanted to play in Houston. But, the Texans and their squeaky clean standard would not allow him to make the cut, so we end up with the perpetual potential machine that never really justifies his existence in a roster spot.

I wanted Plex big time as well, because he had all the motivation in the world to play hard and he was going to be had for cheap. I'd try to sign him this off season.

Dutchrudder
01-17-2012, 01:51 PM
That was a damn good list of guys that could have been good #2 WR's on this team. By providing that again, you proved the opposite of what your stance was in my eyes easily. You're also looking at it in hind sight now as well, and there is no reason to believe that the situations of all of those guys wouldn't have been better or even possibly worse here. The bottom line is that JJ never was any good over here, and he should have never gotten an extension. A ton of us bitched out the wazoo about it when it happened and listed many reasons why, and that signing bit us in the ass really bad in the return game and in the receiving game. Why he was still returning any kicks or punts at all this year has been a mystery this entire time.

I count 4 guys on my list who were about the same price or cheaper than JJ and had a significantly better season:
Malcom Floyd - 43 rec 856 yards 5 TD - Signed a two-year, $5 million contract. Another $2 million is available through incentives.
Plaxico Burress - 45 rec 612 yards 8 TD - 1 year 3 mill
Laurent Robinson - 54 rec 858 yards 11 TD - 1 year $685k (coming off injury last season)
Steve Breaston - 61 rec 785 yards 2 TD - Signed a five-year, $25 million contract. The deal contains $9.5 million guaranteed (actually got paid a lot more than JJ though)

Jacoby Jones - 31 rec 512 yards 2 TD - 3 mill gtd, 10.5 mill total, 3 mill in 2011

There were a lot more guys in that free agency class who weren't worth mentioning as well. The problem is that JJ cost 3 million last year and we barely had any cap room left. So if we go buy a guy like Breaston, we possibly lose out on Manning, Butler, Vickers or someone else. Taking a chance on Robinson would have worked out well, but the problem is there were dozens of other guys like him that we may have picked up. WR was a crapshoot this year.

You also left some names off of that list which were Chad JOhnson who sucked horribly even on the Patriots who many other fans in here wanted which amazed me.

I was only looking at free agent WRs, not traded players. He was the best one traded, but obviously didn't do anything with NE. If he gets a TD Sunday or in the Super Bowl, he may earn his 5 million after all...

Brandon Lloyd would have been nice to get, but he was a single season rental for the Rams.

Steve Smith from the panthers was available for a while for a trade and the Panthers only wanted like a 3rd rounder and something else. It was a total steal for what they were asking for. I talked about it for a while when he was available, but then him and Cam Newton developed a relationship and Smith wanted to stay in Carolina.

Smith was intriguing until you look at his contract value.
2011: $7 million, 2012: $7.75 million, 2013: Free Agent
(doesn't include pro-rated signing bonus of 9.3 mill/6)

He simply would have prevented us from being as active in free agency. Might not get JJo or Manning if you get him. And I think we all know the defense was where the big bucks needed to go.