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Playoffs
01-16-2012, 12:28 PM
The Giants had to beat both the Green Bay Packers and the officials (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/NFL-referee-reviews-green-bay-packers-new-york-giants-houston-texans-baltimore-ravens-011512) on Sunday to win.

Greg Jennings clearly fumbled the ball and the Giants recovered it in the first quarter of their game. It was ruled a fumble, then was wrongly ruled down by contact. The replay obviously showed a fumble, but somehow the zebras managed to screw that up and gave the ball to the Packers.

Huge momentum shifter stolen from the Giants.

There were other bad/questionable calls that went against New York, but the Giants were playing championship caliber football and they overcame to smash the Super Bowl Champions.

---------------------------------------------

The Texans Jacoby Jones' brain freeze came only 3 minutes into the game -- we had all game to overcome that gifted touchdown, but were unable to.

Good teams win ugly. Baltimore won ug-ly.

Great teams overcome. The Texans -- the entire organization -- are getting an education in what it takes to be great.

This loss isn't on one man ..... and this ain't the last chapter of our book, it's just the beginning. AFC South, NFL ..... you still have something we want. We'll see you next year. :bat:

:logo:

ObsiWan
01-16-2012, 12:49 PM
The Giants had to beat both the Green Bay Packers and the officials (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/NFL-referee-reviews-green-bay-packers-new-york-giants-houston-texans-baltimore-ravens-011512) on Sunday to win.

Greg Jennings clearly fumbled the ball and the Giants recovered it in the first quarter of their game. It was ruled a fumble, then was wrongly ruled down by contact. The replay obviously showed a fumble, but somehow the zebras managed to screw that up and gave the ball to the Packers.

Huge momentum shifter stolen from the Giants.

There were other bad/questionable calls that went against New York, but the Giants were playing championship caliber football and they overcame to smash the Super Bowl Champions.

---------------------------------------------

The Texans Jacoby Jones' brain freeze came only 3 minutes into the game -- we had all game to overcome that gifted touchdown, but were unable to.

Good teams win ugly. Baltimore won ug-ly.

Great teams overcome. The Texans -- the entire organization -- are getting an education in what it takes to be great.

This loss isn't on one man ..... and this ain't the last chapter of our book, it's just the beginning. AFC South, NFL ..... you still have something we want. We'll see you next year. :bat:

:logo:

I said pretty much the same thing in the "what happened to Yates?" thread.

We had 55 minutes (I think the fumble was right around the 10:00 mark :D ) to make up for that brain fart.

And a true leader would have went over to Jacoby and told him to "shake it off, we'll get that score back and then some. Just be ready when I call your number." But that takes the confidence that comes with experience.

Now having said that, I still want a serious upgrade at our #2 & #3 WR spots.
:D

Norg
01-16-2012, 01:06 PM
I guess were not at the great level then :kubepalm:

Carr Bombed
01-16-2012, 01:13 PM
Great teams have good QB play....and that's basically all it boils down to.

This has nothing to do with "great teams overcome" crap. When you have a QB like Yates (a inexperienced rookie) and you're playing against a team like Baltimore you have to play with a lead and try to sustain momentum. If you get down big it'll be very hard to come back and "overcome" with a rookie QB against a very good defense.

That play by Jacoby completely screwed us and sucked all the momentum out of the team...we were playing catch up from that moment on.

We aren't the Giants, we don't have Eli...we have a rookie T.J. Yates. It's the same thing that happened to another rookie last week. The second Dalton threw that pick to Watt and lost all of his team's momentum...that game was essentially over, ball game. Teams with rookie QBs don't overcome plays like that.


And as far as "overcoming", This Texans team overcame more adversity than just about every other team in the league this season... I think they already have proven themselves in the "overcoming" department despite the fact that they lost yesterday. :rolleyes:

record
01-16-2012, 01:18 PM
IMO, all the things this team had to overcome this year show we are on the verge of greatness. The weaknesses of the team that kept it from being great yesterday were exposed. They are all correctable though, mainly with a healthy #8 and an upgrade to #12 and #25.

Are you sure #12 wasn't told to "shake it off"? They did leave him in the game even after the 2nd bobble, which is a sign of faith by the coach. #12 had his number called many times afterwards and never produced. #12 isn't the reason we lost, but he is a weak link that has been given every chance and needs to be upgraded. He is part of the reason we aren't a great team yet, it was just more glaringly obvious yesterday more than ever.

TexanSam
01-16-2012, 01:19 PM
Great teams have good QB play....and that's basically all it boils down to.

This has nothing to do with "great teams overcome". When you have a QB like Yates (a inexperienced rookie) and you're playing against a team like Baltimore you have to play with a lead and try to sustain momentum. If you get down big it'll be very hard to come back and "overcome".

That play by Jacoby complete screwed us and sucked all the momentum out of the team...we were playing catch up from that moment on.

We aren't the Giants, he don't have Eli...we have a rookie T.J. Yates. It's the same thing that happened to another rookie last week. The second Dalton threw that pick to Watt and lost all of his team's momentum...that game was essentially over, ball game. Teams with rookie QBs don't overcome plays like that.

QFT. I think it would be similar to Eli Manning going down and David Carr having to take over. Doubt the Giants would be able to recover from that.

This team did all they could to overcome that early mistake. The defense kept them in the game, they got into scoring position (at least FG range) once which would have made it a 1 point game at the time. But it was just too much to ask of a rookie QB to make all the plays to come out with a win. He was going to make mistakes, we all knew that. It was only a matter of time until a team capitalized on them and the Ravens did.

JCTexan
01-16-2012, 01:23 PM
Great teams overcome? How about the Packers? They didn't overcome their four turnovers to win the game. New York won the turnover battle 4-1. Turnovers cost the Texans and it wasn't just Jacoby's.

Carr Bombed
01-16-2012, 01:25 PM
Great teams overcome? How about the Packers? They didn't overcome their four turnovers to win the game. New York won the turnover battle 4-1. Turnovers cost the Texans and it wasn't just Jacoby's.

You might as well add NOLA in there as well.

That's two great SB winning teams that didn't "overcome".

PhilpW
01-16-2012, 01:28 PM
I think the Texans did overcome the Jones fumble. We were down 10-0, 17-3, and never quit fighting. Unfortunately our QB made rookie mistakes that the Ravens took advantage of.

ObsiWan
01-16-2012, 01:33 PM
Great teams overcome? How about the Packers? They didn't overcome their four turnovers to win the game. New York won the turnover battle 4-1. Turnovers cost the Texans and it wasn't just Jacoby's.

You might as well add NOLA in their as well.

That's two great SB winning teams that didn't "overcome".

Excellent points. Although, you could argue that the Saints did come back - twice - only to have Alex Smith and Vernon Davis pull it out in the end. In the end, the Saints D let them down.

HJam72
01-16-2012, 01:38 PM
So, I guess if by some miracle we got a straight up trade Brees, Brady (somebody like that) for Schaub, we'd suddenly have a "great" team made up of mostly "great" players and a "great" HC. I don't usually buy into the whole "great teams do X" because what it usually comes down to is that somebody got really lucky on a draft pick on a QB....or they sucked for X=Luck/Manning/whomever. Matter of fact, they had to get lucky and suck in the right year.

What makes this more obvious is that most of us, including myself, believe we would have been a "great" team this year had only "Schoob"....ur, Schaub....not been used as a belly-flop-trampoline-type-play-toy by a dirty fat man pretending to be a football player.

"Great" teams are just good teams (meaning they already have talent, or most of it) that have a LOT of things fall into place for a year or two. Injuries play a huge role in it. Who gets hurt? Your starting QB and AJ or Jacoby Jones and some other special teamer? Wouldn't that have been nice?

Dpwrath
01-16-2012, 01:42 PM
I thought K-Jax played really well, Boldin just is a good receiver.... as for #2 and #3 wr we need to draft a good one. and maybe pick one up in FA but with the cap the way it is i doubt well get a good one.

eriadoc
01-16-2012, 01:47 PM
One could easily argue that the game did hinge on one play and one player because the Texans, as comprised for yesterday's game, are not a great team. When you have two evenly matched teams, as I believe the Ravens and yesterday's version of the Texans to be, then it's reasonable to postulate that giving one team or the other a free TD at the beginning of the game would be the difference in the final score. Moreover, if the Texans never overcome that early mistake, then that early mistake is the ultimate difference in the game.

The Texans with Matt Schaub and perhaps a couple other players from IR would be a superior team, IMO. Yesterday's team was about even with the Ravens, as evidenced by the fact that they played completely even except for that one fluke play (well, sort of a fluke .... Jacoby Jones is a nidiot that does crap like that).

TEXANRED
01-16-2012, 01:50 PM
Great teams have good QB play....and that's basically all it boils down to.



Signed Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees,and Aaron Rogers.

pissknocker
01-16-2012, 01:58 PM
I think the Texans did overcome the Jones fumble. We were down 10-0, 17-3, and never quit fighting. Unfortunately our QB made rookie mistakes that the Ravens took advantage of.

We were never down 10-0.

Mr. Texan
01-16-2012, 02:01 PM
great teams at least have their starting qb healthy. :)

Carr Bombed
01-16-2012, 02:19 PM
Signed Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees,and Aaron Rogers.


which is why they've won 4 of the last 6 SBs. The QBs of the other two titles are the Manning brothers....one is still playing and we know what happened to the other one.


It's a QB driven league and we needed ours.

TexansFanatic
01-16-2012, 02:21 PM
Even great teams don't overcome a -4 turnover ratio.

The Dallas Cowboys had the best team in the NFL in the early to mid-nineties. If they hadn't turned the ball over five times to San Francisco's one during the 1995 NFC championship game, the Cowboys almost certainly would have won 4 Super Bowls in a row.

It's just virtually impossible to overcome that number of turnovers no matter how good your team is.

burro
01-16-2012, 03:01 PM
I don't buy this...great teams beat other great teams, the paradox of this is that it means great teams must also lose to other great teams and that is exactly what happened yesterday. We had to overcome a lot just to be there and the fact that it wasn't a done deal until the closing minutes of the 4th is a testament to how good this team really is. I can't wait to see Schaub back under center with everyone else healthy. The Texans will be the team to beat next year if we can avoid injury.

Texecutioner
01-16-2012, 03:19 PM
Signed Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees,and Aaron Rogers.

Which is the caliber of QB level that Yates is not ever going to become. If Yates ever becomes this team's full time starter after Schaub, they're going to have to build their team as an all time defensive team, because Yates will never have that high of a ceiling. I really hope that this is the only season that Yates has to start for this team.




It's a QB driven league and we needed ours.

Which is why we need to search for our next elite level type of QB soon to groom under Schaub. Yates will never be close to elite level status no matter hoe many years he sits.

Playoffs
01-16-2012, 04:10 PM
One could easily argue that the game did hinge on one play...
I disagree and that was really the point of my OP (that I did a poor job with).

One play can be devastating in the post-season ..... but one play doesn't kill great teams.

All the chatter is Jacoby lost the game. He hurt, but we should have overcome his mistake(s).

eriadoc
01-16-2012, 04:12 PM
I disagree and that was really the point of my OP (that I did a poor job with).

One play can be devastating in the post-season ..... but one play doesn't kill great teams.

All the chatter is Jacoby lost the game. He hurt, but we should have overcome his mistake(s).

You disagree because you think great teams overcome. I'm telling you the Texans are not a great team.

Playoffs
01-16-2012, 04:17 PM
I'm telling you the Texans are not a great team.My point, exactly. The team isn't great ..... yet.

eriadoc
01-16-2012, 04:23 PM
My point, exactly. The team isn't great ..... yet.

Right. So keep following .... using that logic, they're NOT a great team yet, so it's reasonable to speculate that the Jacoby fumble could not be overcome and therefore was the difference in the game.

In reality, no game ever comes down to one single play or one single player. However, you do have the rare occasion where it comes as close as it ever will, and that's what we saw yesterday (or in the past with Rosencopter). So yeah, I recognize that strictly speaking, it didn't completely hinge on that one single play. But that's as close as it gets in the NFL, and is close enough for general analysis to point to that play and say "Yep, that was it".