PDA

View Full Version : The Bolden/Allen Helmet Plant


Kimmy
01-15-2012, 06:44 PM
Can't believe this wasn't called. And I really can't believe the writer thought it was OK not to throw a flag because it's the "playoffs"

Linkage (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/boldin-plants-allen-helmet-turf-avoids-flag-214155766.html)

The Baltimore Ravens weren't flagged for a single penalty in their 20-13 divisional playoff victory over the Houston Texans. It wasn't for lack of trying.

Wide receiver Anquan Boldin spent much of the fourth quarter tussling with Texans' cornerback Jason Allen, particularly on the play below, in which Allen holds Boldin, Boldin holds him back and the two fall to the turf still engaged.

This specific play concluded with Boldin giving Allen a little of the ol' Ndamukong.

Dan Dierdorf expressed surprise that the officials didn't throw a flag on either the holds or the end game, but I'm pleased they didn't. The play was dirty, a little ugly and wouldn't be tolerated on a game-to-game basis in the regular season.

This is the playoffs, though. The normal rules don't apply. Don't decide the game with whistles, let players decide the game themselves. And if that involves a little extracurriculars after the play is over, so be it.

Baltimore will play the New England Patriots next Sunday in the AFC championship game.

Luv_ya_blue
01-15-2012, 06:47 PM
Yeah, and there's no excuse on the officials being out of position. He was right there and looking directlly at it. He just didn't throw it...but he should've.

TheMatrix31
01-15-2012, 06:49 PM
Cool story bro.

Allstar
01-15-2012, 06:58 PM
Meh.

fiasco west
01-15-2012, 07:04 PM
They didn't call anything today.

There must have been a total of 4 or 5 penalties.

Scooter
01-15-2012, 07:37 PM
i saw it, it could've been a flag, but i'm pretty "meh" ... not something you tack on 15 yards for in the playoffs IMO. let em play.

WolverineFan
01-15-2012, 07:40 PM
We always complain about officials being ticky-tack and taking control of a game and then these officials go out and let the teams play and we find something to complain about.

I thought they did a fantastic job today. They let a lot of 'football' stuff go, as they should.

TheEastwood
01-15-2012, 08:55 PM
These were by far the best refs that we've had all season. A lot of ticky tack bull**** penalties that are normally called weren't. The refs truely let two great defenses play. Contrast these refs with the ones in the ny/gb game where they called roughing the passer for a completely clean hit. Ill take the refs that keep the yellow in their pocket every time

NitroGSXR
01-15-2012, 09:05 PM
Great game,by the refs. I wish they called a penalty there but Allen committed the penalty on Bolden first. I think the ref just let it go after Allen got punked in return.

darnbni99a
01-15-2012, 09:33 PM
They didn't call anything today.

There must have been a total of 4 or 5 penalties.

i believe we had 3

Perki-Perk
01-15-2012, 09:40 PM
For me, I saw 3 penalties that were not called that I'd like called, this one not included. 1 seemed to be a horse collar, I don't remember on who, but come on now, that is dangerous, as is the other where one Raven defender pulled Arian down by grabbing the back of his helmet. Not sure how to describe it, but you may know what play I'm talking about it. The bar I was at was up in arms about it.

The last play, was a blatant hold during a crucial 3rd down play. The O-lineman was basically hugging I think it was Watt. I'd have to watch again.

Other than that, the game was well called.

Kimmy
01-15-2012, 09:43 PM
For me, I saw 3 penalties that were not called that I'd like called, this one not included. 1 seemed to be a horse collar, I don't remember on who, but come on now, that is dangerous, as is the other where one Raven defender pulled Arian down by grabbing the back of his helmet. Not sure how to describe it, but you may know what play I'm talking about it. The bar I was at was up in arms about it.

The last play, was a blatant hold during a crucial 3rd down play. The O-lineman was basically hugging I think it was Watt. I'd have to watch again.

Other than that, the game was well called.

I saw that, too. It was on the 1st drive.

Luv_ya_blue
01-15-2012, 09:55 PM
For me, I saw 3 penalties that were not called that I'd like called, this one not included. 1 seemed to be a horse collar, I don't remember on who, but come on now, that is dangerous, as is the other where one Raven defender pulled Arian down by grabbing the back of his helmet. Not sure how to describe it, but you may know what play I'm talking about it. The bar I was at was up in arms about it.

The last play, was a blatant hold during a crucial 3rd down play. The O-lineman was basically hugging I think it was Watt. I'd have to watch again.

Other than that, the game was well called.

I saw that, too. It was on the 1st drive.

It was on Foster...believe it was Ed Reed. Drove him out of bounds and brought him down--while trying to hold him up--by his jersey opening. It's a textbook horsecollar; but my suspicion is that it wasn't called because he was trying to hold him up out of bounds. Meaning that they were taking the full play into consideration.

Most horsecollars won't be called by just the jersey opening--even though that's part of the rule. Most of them are called when they grasp the shoulder pads.

Funny thing about that particular tackle was, he also had him hooked on the FRONT of the jersey opening too.

Don't have nearly as big a problem with that no-call than pushing himself up off Allen's helmet.

TimeKiller
01-15-2012, 10:10 PM
I thought the officiating was awesome. However, with the way they've suspended, fined and now trotted out Ndamukong Suh to make appearances on a pregame to apologize for his similar mishap I'm pretty sure Boldin has at least a fine coming. I didn't see exactly what tweaked his melon but the tangle up with Allen seemed like two guys going after and just getting tangled up. Boldin's act was pretty uncalled for and he's lucky flags weren't thrown. I'm good with it though. I'd be damn excited if EVERY game was officiated like that. I think it was Pollard tackling Walter, really went high and caught a good bit of 83's helmet and no flag was thrown. I was surprised but really, that's how EVERY game should be called. There weren't even a lot of hurt feelings, players looking for calls and such. Flacco did a couple times but that was as solid of a reffing crew as I've seen all year.

Big Lou
01-15-2012, 10:24 PM
I admit I'm very critical of the officials, although I also admit its a very difficult job.

With that said I appreciatte ditching the ticky tack calls. We benefited from some today, like a face mask call that should have gone against Cush. However there are ticky tack and then there are calls that need to be made.

1. The the Allen/Boldin deal, Allen should have been called for Def. Pass Interference, and then Boldin should have been called for unsportsman like conduct.

2. There was a blatant roughing the passer on Yates at one point, maybe the 3rd. The defender saw the ball was released and the defender hit him hard.

3. This is not a defense of Jacoby, but last time I checked you can't tackle a guy that doesnt have the ball. When Jacoby muffed that punt, the defender tackled him from behind, he may have had a remote shot of recovering the punt. Not sure if that would be a block in the back, or holding, but the ball should have been spotted 10 yards from the spot of the foul, maybe we hold them to 3.


Last but not least do the playoffs revert to college rules? Boldin clearly only had one foot in on that reception on the side line in the 1st quarter. Kubiak should have challenged that.

Regardless of all that crap I can't wait until next year!!! It sucks to lose but honestly minus the score (which is all that matters) the Texans whipped up on the Ravens. If #8 is in we probably win hands down. If TJ stops throwing to Dre in double and triple coverage we probably win.

This team is really turning in to something special talent wise. With one more draft, and if we can sign Foster back next year should be awesome!!!! (Also Schaub will be a bit of an X Factor)

I'm upset we lost, and I have to work with a couple of Ravens Fans that don't represent thier team very well so this week should suck, but we were playing with house money once Schaub went down.

Congrats to the Ravens, but I would be concerned if I were them. They have a great defense, but this game isn't really reflected in the final score.

Every year I think that "wow this is our year", but anything less than a SB appearence next year will be a dissappointment.



P.S. I forgot the blatant hold on that 3rd down mentioned before.

Big Lou
01-15-2012, 10:27 PM
I thought the officiating was awesome. However, with the way they've suspended, fined and now trotted out Ndamukong Suh to make appearances on a pregame to apologize for his similar mishap I'm pretty sure Boldin has at least a fine coming. I didn't see exactly what tweaked his melon but the tangle up with Allen seemed like two guys going after and just getting tangled up. Boldin's act was pretty uncalled for and he's lucky flags weren't thrown. I'm good with it though. I'd be damn excited if EVERY game was officiated like that. I think it was Pollard tackling Walter, really went high and caught a good bit of 83's helmet and no flag was thrown. I was surprised but really, that's how EVERY game should be called. There weren't even a lot of hurt feelings, players looking for calls and such. Flacco did a couple times but that was as solid of a reffing crew as I've seen all year.

I forgot the helmet to helmet on Walter. I think that a helmet to helmet should only be called when the defender leads with the head rather than inadvertant contact, but hey call or don't call it, be consistent all year, thats all I want.

Scooter
01-15-2012, 10:31 PM
3. This is not a defense of Jacoby, but last time I checked you can't tackle a guy that doesnt have the ball. When Jacoby muffed that punt, the defender tackled him from behind, he may have had a remote shot of recovering the punt. Not sure if that would be a block in the back, or holding, but the ball should have been spotted 10 yards from the spot of the foul, maybe we hold them to 3.

without a fair catch signal, the moment the returner (or any member of the returning team) touches the ball he and the ball are fair game regardless of possession. with a fair catch, if the returner fails to catch it cleanly he and the ball are fair game. tackle, strip, pile driver off the top rope - it's all legal.

steelbtexan
01-15-2012, 10:32 PM
Can't believe this wasn't called. And I really can't believe the writer thought it was OK not to throw a flag because it's the "playoffs"

Linkage (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/boldin-plants-allen-helmet-turf-avoids-flag-214155766.html)

This is the 1st game that I've watched in 43 yrs that where a team didn't receive a pentalty during the entire game.

Just saying

NitroGSXR
01-15-2012, 10:38 PM
I admit I'm very critical of the officials, although I also admit its a very difficult job.

With that said I appreciatte ditching the ticky tack calls. We benefited from some today, like a face mask call that should have gone against Cush. However there are ticky tack and then there are calls that need to be made.

1. The the Allen/Boldin deal, Allen should have been called for Def. Pass Interference, and then Boldin should have been called for unsportsman like conduct.

2. There was a blatant roughing the passer on Yates at one point, maybe the 3rd. The defender saw the ball was released and the defender hit him hard.

3. This is not a defense of Jacoby, but last time I checked you can't tackle a guy that doesnt have the ball. When Jacoby muffed that punt, the defender tackled him from behind, he may have had a remote shot of recovering the punt. Not sure if that would be a block in the back, or holding, but the ball should have been spotted 10 yards from the spot of the foul, maybe we hold them to 3.


Last but not least do the playoffs revert to college rules? Boldin clearly only had one foot in on that reception on the side line in the 1st quarter. Kubiak should have challenged that.

Regardless of all that crap I can't wait until next year!!! It sucks to lose but honestly minus the score (which is all that matters) the Texans whipped up on the Ravens. If #8 is in we probably win hands down. If TJ stops throwing to Dre in double and triple coverage we probably win.

This team is really turning in to something special talent wise. With one more draft, and if we can sign Foster back next year should be awesome!!!! (Also Schaub will be a bit of an X Factor)

I'm upset we lost, and I have to work with a couple of Ravens Fans that don't represent thier team very well so this week should suck, but we were playing with house money once Schaub went down.

Congrats to the Ravens, but I would be concerned if I were them. They have a great defense, but this game isn't really reflected in the final score.

Every year I think that "wow this is our year", but anything less than a SB appearence next year will be a dissappointment.



P.S. I forgot the blatant hold on that 3rd down mentioned before.

Boldin had a foot and his left hand down. That was a clean TD.

Big Lou
01-15-2012, 10:57 PM
Boldin had a foot and his left hand down. That was a clean TD.

This was around mid field for a big gain, not on a TD. The TD was legit.

Boldin came down with one foot then a hand, and then his other foot was clearly out of bounds. It was a 15 or 20 yard gain.

Big Lou
01-15-2012, 11:00 PM
without a fair catch signal, the moment the returner (or any member of the returning team) touches the ball he and the ball are fair game regardless of possession. with a fair catch, if the returner fails to catch it cleanly he and the ball are fair game. tackle, strip, pile driver off the top rope - it's all legal.

Yes with out a fair catch I agree you can engage the return man, but rewatch that play and you'll see Jacoby turn around to chase the ball and the coverage guy literally wraps his hands around Jacoby from behind and tackles him. I believe that is some form of holding. You can't tackle anyone on the field unless they have the ball.

Big Lou
01-15-2012, 11:16 PM
Jacoby tackled with no chance to recover the ball:

https://backup.cox.com/Application/Secure/Vault/Image.pvw?6mHclryKcUqx9A0XdqjY7ZIZCsphGn-D54YbbgYIcIqMVuUtcGpK5Nss8gNFdqq_yhgolbwvzpJ2_VSq-g0IlvHbw0VGc7t1dZPCbLWc6GA1


Boldin out of bounds:

https://backup.cox.com/Application/Secure/Vault/Image.pvw?6mHclryKcUqx9A0XdqjY7faLf1SMgSed8bHCUMWu S_VD66CiRTU_KXWyxeBzufmvZjKUnVKQcvkh2q-OXWjF43UmT7VbluJqMGTOxJx9V_QbsKU4UrhQVZR4t2t_5ukkN jbm6nXTnk--kH-OZjj-qw2

Scooter
01-15-2012, 11:28 PM
Yes with out a fair catch I agree you can engage the return man, but rewatch that play and you'll see Jacoby turn around to chase the ball and the coverage guy literally wraps his hands around Jacoby from behind and tackles him. I believe that is some form of holding. You can't tackle anyone on the field unless they have the ball.

i've written and erased a million ways to explain the situation (too much to drink), but quite simply once the ball is LIVE (meaning neither team has possession), anything short of bringing foreign objects onto the field as weapons is permissible. once jacoby touched the ball it became live.

Big Lou
01-15-2012, 11:31 PM
Jacoby tackled with no chance to recover the ball:

https://backup.cox.com/Application/Secure/Vault/Image.pvw?6mHclryKcUqx9A0XdqjY7ZIZCsphGn-D54YbbgYIcIqMVuUtcGpK5Nss8gNFdqq_yhgolbwvzpJ2_VSq-g0IlvHbw0VGc7t1dZPCbLWc6GA1


Boldin out of bounds:

https://backup.cox.com/Application/Secure/Vault/Image.pvw?6mHclryKcUqx9A0XdqjY7faLf1SMgSed8bHCUMWu S_VD66CiRTU_KXWyxeBzufmvZjKUnVKQcvkh2q-OXWjF43UmT7VbluJqMGTOxJx9V_QbsKU4UrhQVZR4t2t_5ukkN jbm6nXTnk--kH-OZjj-qw2




Both of these screen captures look less like tackles and more like well, I won't say what they look like, but you can figure it out!!!!!

Scooter
01-15-2012, 11:51 PM
Both of these screen captures look less like tackles and more like well, I won't say what they look like, but you can figure it out!!!!!

i'm not seeing the links. when quoting i can see the format, but am too pc-illiterate to correct it.

THE RAVENS DEN
01-16-2012, 12:30 AM
With that said I appreciatte ditching the ticky tack calls. We benefited from some today, like a face mask call that should have gone against Cush. However there are ticky tack and then there are calls that need to be made.

1. The the Allen/Boldin deal, Allen should have been called for Def. Pass Interference, and then Boldin should have been called for unsportsman like conduct.

2. There was a blatant roughing the passer on Yates at one point, maybe the 3rd. The defender saw the ball was released and the defender hit him hard.

3. This is not a defense of Jacoby, but last time I checked you can't tackle a guy that doesnt have the ball. When Jacoby muffed that punt, the defender tackled him from behind, he may have had a remote shot of recovering the punt. Not sure if that would be a block in the back, or holding, but the ball should have been spotted 10 yards from the spot of the foul, maybe we hold them to 3.


Last but not least do the playoffs revert to college rules? Boldin clearly only had one foot in on that reception on the side line in the 1st quarter. Kubiak should have challenged that.



.

The roughing the passer you think should have been called was Ngata and im sure you can imagine its pretty hard to stop a 350lb DL running at full throttle, they cant stop on a dime,lol. Ngata did let of a bit, trust me, Yates would have been hurt if he didn't

And for the Muffed punt, Jacoby never called for a fair catch and also he was touching the football before any RAVENS touched him, so that was legal if you ask me. (I know this because ED REED is notorious for doing the exact same thing and he did turn it over once doing it.)


Anyways, man you guys played a hell of a game and it was close. Let me tell you, for a little while i thought you were going to win.

Great Game and good luck next yr, as soon as you figure out the QB sit. you guys will be a complete TEAM. Me personally i think Matt Schaub is your guy, i think he is in the upper echelon when it comes to QB. To me he is a just a tiny notch from Elite. imo.

The RAVENS are going to have their hands full next week but i must say, imo it really , really helped us playing you guys with you top defense. Hopefully Flacco will have a field day playing their D after playing yours. The one thing that makes me nervous is our FREAKING WRers dropping gimme passes, its been going on all yr. No one realizes it outside of Maryland , they just think Flacco is a bad QB, which is a complete Joke. Just watch him play. Of course you Rushing Defense didnt help his case Sacking him 5 or 6 times. Thumbs up for you guys, Also you O line were playing lights out, we couldn't get to Yates to save our Lives. He can move too, i might add.

Anyways, Good luck guys. And i know exactly how you guys are feeling right now, Us RAVENS fans know this all too well and as you can see or should i say feel. Its alot harder losing in the play offs than in the regular season, one reason is simply because you are so close to the BIG GAME.

Scooter
01-16-2012, 12:43 AM
Anyways, man you guys played a hell of a game and it was close. Let me tell you, for a little while i thought you were going to win.

Great Game and good luck next yr, as soon as you figure out the QB sit. you guys will be a complete TEAM. Me personally i think Matt Schaub is your guy, i think he is in the upper echelon when it comes to QB. To me he is a just a tiny notch from Elite. imo.

The RAVENS are going to have their hands full next week but i must say, imo it really , really helped us playing you guys with you top defense. Hopefully Flacco will have a field day playing their D after playing yours. The one thing that makes me nervous is our FREAKING WRers dropping gimme passes, its been going on all yr. No one realizes it outside of Maryland , they just think Flacco is a bad QB, which is a complete Joke. Just watch him play. Of course you Rushing Defense didnt help his case Sacking him 5 or 6 times. Thumbs up for you guys, Also you O line were playing lights out, we couldn't get to Yates to save our Lives. He can move too, i might add.

Anyways, Good luck guys. And i know exactly how you guys are feeling right now, Us RAVENS fans know this all too well and as you can see or should i say feel. Its alot harder losing in the play offs than in the regular season, one reason is simply because you are so close to the BIG GAME.

thanks for the reminder, i need to locate and rep the ravens fans that posted here this week. yall have been great and objective fans ... complimentary and thick skinned. good luck from here on out, i'm pulling for the ravens to win it all.

HJam72
01-16-2012, 05:59 AM
Refs called a good game, but they obviously didn't do everything they could to help us win....so fire them all. :)

TimeKiller
01-16-2012, 08:30 AM
I forgot the helmet to helmet on Walter. I think that a helmet to helmet should only be called when the defender leads with the head rather than inadvertant contact, but hey call or don't call it, be consistent all year, thats all I want.

They're not allowed to lead with the head, shoulder or any part of the arms in relation to head shots. I honestly think it was probably just because Walter was already on his way down. It surprised me because Pollard has sort of a reputation for getting out of control, but again, I'm good with that particular flag staying put. I sure wouldn't want to see it against the Texans. That was just a good, physical game.

El Tejano
01-16-2012, 08:35 AM
For me, it was when Ray Lewis felt the need to take a punch at Owen Daniels head when he caught a very nice 3rd down ball.

Kthx
01-16-2012, 09:25 AM
In all honestly this was easily one of the best reffed games of the season or that I have seen in several seasons. Its really easy after a loss to go back and say that certain plays should have been called, but I would rather take a step back and just be glad there wasn't 30 penalties called during the game. It was nice to see two teams playing some real old school break neck football without too many outside distractions.

nero THE zero
01-16-2012, 10:02 AM
In all honestly this was easily one of the best reffed games of the season or that I have seen in several seasons. Its really easy after a loss to go back and say that certain plays should have been called, but I would rather take a step back and just be glad there wasn't 30 penalties called during the game. It was nice to see two teams playing some real old school break neck football without too many outside distractions.

Agreed. It's nice when the refs let the players play.

I saw some squawking about a Lewis hit to the helmet, but didn't notice it during the game.

Otherwise, I thought it was an excellently called game. And that goes for the other games for the weekend, aside from the NYG v GB game, which was a putrid excuse for officiating (which has become par for the course for Leavy and co.)

TheCD
01-16-2012, 10:31 AM
Yeah, and there's no excuse on the officials being out of position. He was right there and looking directlly at it. He just didn't throw it...but he should've.

My friend (who reffed in high school for a while) said that the flag shouldld have been thrown but he can't blame the ref because he was focused on spotting the ball and missed the altercation because of it.

Also, on the 3rd down play that gave us our last drive, our defenders literally tackled 2 different Ravens players. We got away with that one, so I am calling it a wash.