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El Tejano
02-22-2012, 08:27 AM
Mario misses games every season. Give him credit for playing hurt early in his career but now it's always something. I love Mario and wish he could stay but for my money, I'm going with Foster who has only made this team better since he got on the field with us.

thunderkyss
02-22-2012, 08:55 AM
I'd like them to get a long term deal done with Arian, but they only have 3 weeks to do so. The franchise tag can be applied on March 5th if they don't have one by then. That's the only case in which I see them using it, but it buys them time to negotiate more and keeps him focused on the Texans, not 31 other potential suitors. The RFA tag doesn't do that and it could inflate his price, which is why I don't think they should go that route.

Agree.

Mario is still priority 1, we have to have him signed by March 13, period.

We can franchise Arian, then we'll have till OTAs at least to work out a long term deal. If negotiations are still active, Arian may very well show up for OTAs & TC which would give us additional time to work out a long term deal.

It's possible to do the same with Mario, only we expose ourselves to being stuck for $23M if we can't work out a long-term deal he'll accept, or a trade he'll accept.

Being stuck for $23M for the 2012 cap is something we cannot risk.

GP
02-22-2012, 09:45 AM
If it were that easy, you & I would be running real NFL franchises.

It takes the right eyes to identify the right back, the right center, the right OL men, the right receivers, TE, etc...

Then it takes the right teachers to instruct, guide, nurture the talent.

Then It takes hundreds of hours to hone the physical skills, the mental calls.

At least with Arian, at least you know you've got the right back. & If you know Kubiak, you know you have a serious pro.

Trent Richardson..... just like all the other draft picks... is a roll of the dice.

Yep. I thought we were STOOPID to pass on Glen Coffee (he went to the 49ers) and what happened? Glen Coffee got tired of playing football and decided he wanted to be a minister or some such thing.

Turns out the Texans have a better way of identifying and scrutinizing college players than GP does.

GP
02-22-2012, 09:48 AM
Agree.

Mario is still priority 1, we have to have him signed by March 13, period.

We can franchise Arian, then we'll have till OTAs at least to work out a long term deal. If negotiations are still active, Arian may very well show up for OTAs & TC which would give us additional time to work out a long term deal.

It's possible to do the same with Mario, only we expose ourselves to being stuck for $23M if we can't work out a long-term deal he'll accept, or a trade he'll accept.

Being stuck for $23M for the 2012 cap is something we cannot risk.

I think order of preference, for me, would be:

1. Sign Arian to a long-term deal NOW. If not, then....

2. Tag him for one year, but only with the purest of intentions to keep negotiations alive and hammer out a deal before camp begins.

3. Tender him and pray to God that some other team doesn't throw $100 million at him or some bizarre number that we'd then have to match. If you risk the tendering route, you only have yourself to blame if another team smartly outbids you and now you've got to replace that franchise RB somehow.

Seriously, the first choice SHOULD happen if we're serious about locking him up. The second choice, for me, is a fallback plan if he and his agent are asking what some other team might propose if Arian were to be tendered and able to get an offer sheet from another team.

Section516
02-22-2012, 10:41 AM
I want AF as a Texan for years to come. Why? Our playoffs this year. That effort he was giving those games may of been matched by a few, but was not surpassed by any.

thunderkyss
02-22-2012, 12:01 PM
I think order of preference, for me, would be:

1. Sign Arian to a long-term deal NOW. If not, then....


Seriously, the first choice SHOULD happen if we're serious about locking him up.

Let's think about this for a minute.


let's figure out what Arian is worth.
How much we are willing to pay him
How much does Arian think he's worth
How will we structure the contract
Make a deal


The last three contracts that come to mind, are:
Adrian Peterson's (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6952094/minnesota-vikings-give-adrian-peterson-new-seven-year-100m-deal)
7 years $100M - $36M guaranteed - $40M in first 3 years
DeAngelo Williams' (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8210503e/article/williams-agrees-to-fiveyear-43m-deal-to-stay-with-panthers)
5 years, $43M - $21M guaranteed
Chris Johnson's. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-full-chris-johnson-contract-breakdown/)6 years $56M - ~$33M Guaranteed

Where do you think Arian Fits in?

Trail.Blazr
02-22-2012, 12:56 PM
doublepost :-(

Trail.Blazr
02-22-2012, 12:59 PM
Let's think about this for a minute.


let's figure out what Arian is worth.
How much we are willing to pay him
How much does Arian think he's worth
How will we structure the contract
Make a deal


The last three contracts that come to mind, are:
Adrian Peterson's (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6952094/minnesota-vikings-give-adrian-peterson-new-seven-year-100m-deal)
7 years $100M - $36M guaranteed - $40M in first 3 years
DeAngelo Williams' (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8210503e/article/williams-agrees-to-fiveyear-43m-deal-to-stay-with-panthers)
5 years, $43M - $21M guaranteed
Chris Johnson's. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-full-chris-johnson-contract-breakdown/)6 years $56M - ~$33M Guaranteed

Where do you think Arian Fits in?


More importantly, were does Arian think Arian fits in?

I've heard talk that would insinuate he may not want money.. but being human myself, I'm thinking if I've out-performed everyone for the past couple of years and have not made a real stink out of my pay through that and now it's time for a new contract... I'm getting paid. That is the trend in the business side of the NFL, yes?

I elect for the franchise tag and work out what kind of a deal you can. If he want's to get paid more than FO thinks he's worth.. at least you have another year of service.

Goatcheese
02-22-2012, 01:48 PM
http://www.chron.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=1173216&width=628&height=471



:user:

The funny thing is that fans were just a vehement in their demands to see Robinson get his money, but as soon as he held out they turned on him and from that point forward insisted that he sucked(even though it was technically the best year of his career as a cover man).

For even more humor, I was one of the only ones who was saying that D-Rob was being overrated before his holdout. :kitten:

GP
02-22-2012, 02:03 PM
Here was my spin on Dunta's antics, a doctored image I created back when all this Dunta jazz was the craze around here.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/dunta_shoes_flag.jpg

GP
02-22-2012, 02:17 PM
Let's think about this for a minute.


let's figure out what Arian is worth.
How much we are willing to pay him
How much does Arian think he's worth
How will we structure the contract
Make a deal


The last three contracts that come to mind, are:
Adrian Peterson's (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6952094/minnesota-vikings-give-adrian-peterson-new-seven-year-100m-deal)
7 years $100M - $36M guaranteed - $40M in first 3 years
DeAngelo Williams' (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8210503e/article/williams-agrees-to-fiveyear-43m-deal-to-stay-with-panthers)
5 years, $43M - $21M guaranteed
Chris Johnson's. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-full-chris-johnson-contract-breakdown/)6 years $56M - ~$33M Guaranteed

Where do you think Arian Fits in?

A 3-year deal or 4-year deal at the most.

And I don't know how to structure that, tbh. I would say give him enough to make him a happy man for 3 to 4 years with the intention of making him an even happier man on another 3 or 4 year deal after this one has expired.

I know everyone says it MUST be a 5-year deal, at least, because all the RBs are getting 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 or 13 year deals or whatever. So what. Reward a guy for what did the past two years by giving him a nice 3 or 4 year deal since RBs are (according to legend) a high-risk investment over the long run.

If a 5-year deal averaged $4 million-per, then give Arian more than $4 million-per but decrease the year(s) on the deal. Make it clear that you expect him to be here for 3 or 4 years AND you expect him to be here another 3 or 4 after that to make it a 10-year career and retire as a wealthy Texans player and likely a HOF'er too.

But again, I don't know all the ramifications of doing a shorter-term deal. I just wonder what's so special about giving a RB an exceptionally long deal. They rarely stay on the same team, most often getting worn down and released or traded or whatever once they can't run the old horse race anymore. So why not focus more short-term and be more genuine about the expectations? That's my thinking on it.

And I don't know why some are theorizing that Arian is not going to be all that lustful over a big payday. He chose the Texans because we offered more UDFA money than the Saints did AND he had a better shot at becoming the starter here at the time. Sounds like a very calculating and strategic person to me....

amazing80
02-22-2012, 03:28 PM
Do a 4 year 36 M (9 a year) with 19 M guaranteed.


Remember AF is young and only has 2 years starting on his body, he will have at least another great 4 years.....

thunderkyss
02-22-2012, 05:37 PM
The funny thing is that fans were just a vehement in their demands to see Robinson get his money, but as soon as he held out they turned on him and from that point forward insisted that he sucked(even though it was technically the best year of his career as a cover man).

For even more humor, I was one of the only ones who was saying that D-Rob was being overrated before his holdout. :kitten:

You weren't alone. I was against the Texans franchising him to begin with. As a matter of fact, when I found out they offered him top 5 CB money (as it were rumored), he turned it down, then he refused to sign his Franchise contract... I thought the Texans should have pulled the offer & let him walk.

No doubt in my mind, at that point, that he simply didn't want to be on this team. As dumb as it sounds, I felt McNair was offering him "that" money as a matter of courtesy, similar to the $8M golden handshake David Carr got. But if Dunta wanted to be an ass about it, don't let the door hit ya fella.

Ah... memories.

Honestly, I appreciated Dunta's physicality & attitude he brought to the team. After the injury, he didn't bring it. After the tagged year, he didn't bring it..... I understand not wanting to get hurt without a long term deal.... but to hold out & be a punk about it? Nah... not me.

thunderkyss
02-22-2012, 05:58 PM
A 3-year deal or 4-year deal at the most.

I like the idea.. a little outside the box. But, the longer contracts are usually to the benefit of the team, especially with a signing bonus. The longer the contract, the more they can spread it out, the smaller the cap hit.

Most contracts are 3-4 year contracts, with a little fluff added on the back end.

If a 5-year deal averaged $4 million-per, then give Arian more than $4 million-per but decrease the year(s) on the deal. Make it clear that you expect him to be here for 3 or 4 years AND you expect him to be here another 3 or 4 after that to make it a 10-year career and retire as a wealthy Texans player and likely a HOF'er too.



You're not even close. I'm sure talks will start at $9M per.... look at those contracts I mentioned. The $9M is what's going to make it difficult for a short termed contract. You could give him a $20 signing bonus on a 4 year contract, which would count $5M/yr towards his cap number. 1st & 2nd year salaries of $2M would give you a Cap hit of $7M/yr..... with the 30% escalation rule, his 3rd yr salary would be $2.6M & 4th year would be $3.38M But you would have to add roster bonuses about $3M/yr to make the $9M/yr average. However, it would add directly to his cap number in 2014 ($10.6M) & 2015 ($11.38M)....

Blake
02-23-2012, 07:27 AM
I see Arian Foster as Mrs. Davis from Its a Wonderful Life. She helps the Savings and Loan stay in business by asking for only what she needs. Seventeen dollars and fifty cents.

Foster will have his agent ask for only what he thinks he needs. He is not going to withdrawl his entire account and leave the Savings and Loan.

What a great movie.

GP
02-23-2012, 01:00 PM
You weren't alone. I was against the Texans franchising him to begin with. As a matter of fact, when I found out they offered him top 5 CB money (as it were rumored), he turned it down, then he refused to sign his Franchise contract... I thought the Texans should have pulled the offer & let him walk.

No doubt in my mind, at that point, that he simply didn't want to be on this team. As dumb as it sounds, I felt McNair was offering him "that" money as a matter of courtesy, similar to the $8M golden handshake David Carr got. But if Dunta wanted to be an ass about it, don't let the door hit ya fella.

Ah... memories.

Honestly, I appreciated Dunta's physicality & attitude he brought to the team. After the injury, he didn't bring it. After the tagged year, he didn't bring it..... I understand not wanting to get hurt without a long term deal.... but to hold out & be a punk about it? Nah... not me.

And as much as he was candid about David Carr (remember when Dunta made veiled comments in the locker room about David, but he never mentioned his name) there was, inside of that moment, a stark reality about the character of Dunta Robinson--A guy who values his own opinion so highly, that whatever he feels or thinks, at a given moment, is somehow THE Gospel Truth.

Dunta is a team player. But the team he plays for is Team Dunta. I think he was so shaken and dissatisfied by the abysmal existence of the Texans, and what seemed like a road to nowhere for all 52 of them, that he figured it was time to be on team Dunta from then on.

Even in Atlanta, this past season, I think he was criticizing his own teammates to the media. IIRC, he was critical of the WRs or the play of the offense or something. There he was, making sure Team Dunta would win at the end of the day.

That's my theory, at least.

b0ng
02-23-2012, 03:13 PM
The funny thing is that fans were just a vehement in their demands to see Robinson get his money, but as soon as he held out they turned on him and from that point forward insisted that he sucked(even though it was technically the best year of his career as a cover man).

For even more humor, I was one of the only ones who was saying that D-Rob was being overrated before his holdout. :kitten:

Not really. More fans didn't want Robinson to leave because there was literally nothing behind him on the depth chart, not because they thought he was some awesome CB. Most people around here thought Dunta was going to get way more money than he was worth because him and Leigh Bodden were the only 2 CB's that could even be misconstrued as starters during FA that year.

thunderkyss
02-23-2012, 05:26 PM
Dunta is a team player. But the team he plays for is Team Dunta. I think he was so shaken and dissatisfied by the abysmal existence of the Texans, and what seemed like a road to nowhere for all 52 of them, that he figured it was time to be on team Dunta from then on.



This is what I refer to when I talk about how hard it is to change an organization's culture. "I'm just going to do what I gotta do.... make my money & go home."

It's not about being a team, it's not about winning games, it's not about building a successful organization. Sure, there's one or two guys who have such aspirations. But they don't care enough to put forth the effort, or don't have the gumption to discuss it with the big man, or even their immediate supervisor.

The 49ers, I think, was the perfect team for Jim Harbaugh. He wouldn't have been as successful with too many other teams. The F.O. was determined about bringing in quality draft picks. They were stacked with talent before Harbaugh got there. All they needed was the right coach.

Harbaugh was able to use his enthusiasm & experience motivating young men to "do the impossible" it was the perfect storm.

Here, we had such a mix of "veteran" FAs & "mediocre" draft picks, that I don't know if any coach could have came in & built something special. Could someone come in & get us to two AFC Championship games? Probably. Like the Jets & Rex & their dysfunctional locker room. I'm going on record, saying Ryan is going to have to clean house, or be swept away. I don't think he has the personal skills to pull it all together.

Would I have been happy with those two back to back AFC Championship game appearances? WEll... yeah. Would I be rather be where they are today, than where we are today.... maybe.

Would I trade where I think they are headed for where I think we are headed? Not so much.

gafftop
03-05-2012, 08:17 AM
So glad they did not have to franchise and we end up with the Dunta deal. One and done. The Texans are sending the RIGHT messsage. We appreciate how you(Foster) handled the situation this last year. We are paying you because of what you did on the field and how you handled yourself in dealing with this situation. The Texans have been saying they would take care of him and they did. Good for the FO.

El Tejano
03-07-2012, 10:17 AM
Oh he's paid now!!!!