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Playoffs
01-12-2012, 11:52 AM
Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story?id=7442150&_slug_=mel-kiper-regrading-2011-nfl-draft&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft2012%2fstory%3fid%3d7442150%26_slug_%3dmel-kiper-regrading-2011-nfl-draft)

Houston Texans

Post-draft grade: B

Summary: In April, I wrote that Wade Phillips "got a lot of new toys to work with, and I think Houston did a solid job of addressing what was simply a bad defense in 2010." I probably didn't make a strong enough case because the first two picks, J.J. Watt and Brooks Reed, have played huge roles this season. Watt is arguably one of the top rookies in football, and Reed really came on, particularly after Mario Williams was lost for the year. If you consider that Houston got 11 sacks out of a combo of Williams and Reed, the injury to Super Mario doesn't seem so terrible. Of course, the big steal here was to find T.J. Yates in the fifth round after he wasn't even invited to the combine. After the draft, I wrote, "Yates could be a good one if given time to develop." I wouldn't exactly call his current experience a nice incubation period, but he has made what was already a good draft look somewhere closer to exceptional, at least in the short term. Good draft for Houston right now and for the future, which deserves a bump.

New grade: A-

Only two teams (San Francisco and Cleveland) had higher grades than Houston's and only four other teams finished with grades of A- or better.

TheCD
01-12-2012, 12:16 PM
If Brandon Harris can develop into even a nickel corner this draft becomes so much better that it already is.

Ole Miss Texan
01-12-2012, 12:19 PM
On a scale from 1 - 10, this draft was a 15.

Perki-Perk
01-12-2012, 12:26 PM
On a scale from 1 - 10, this draft was a 15.

Is this your fancy way of saying it's.."Off the charts"? :D

IDEXAN
01-12-2012, 12:40 PM
If Brandon Harris can develop into even a nickel corner this draft becomes so much better that it already is.
And we also drafted another CB, Rashad Carmichael from Virginia Tech, who went on IR early but could be a real sleeper in the upcoming offseason to develope into a player who can play some minutes.

beerlover
01-12-2012, 02:48 PM
I gave Texans A- the first time. Does that make me a better draft evaluator?

eriadoc
01-12-2012, 03:29 PM
I gave Texans A- the first time. Does that make me a better draft evaluator?

It's Mel Kiper ... how low do you want the bar set?

gary
01-12-2012, 03:35 PM
I still would like to know why Harris has not played very much.

eriadoc
01-12-2012, 03:38 PM
I still would like to know why Harris has not played very much.

Well, at the risk of going black and white with it, either he sucks, in which case the coaches and GM have did a terrible job wasting a 2nd round pick on him, or the coaches haven't put him on the field for other reasons (like their deluded belief that KJ is a starting caliber CB), and they did a terrible job managing the whole thing.

If there were no history of this sort of thing, I'd lean toward the former. Obviously, none of us really know.

Perki-Perk
01-12-2012, 03:42 PM
Well, at the risk of going black and white with it, either he sucks, in which case the coaches and GM have did a terrible job wasting a 2nd round pick on him, or the coaches haven't put him on the field for other reasons (like their deluded belief that KJ is a starting caliber CB), and they did a terrible job managing the whole thing.

If there were no history of this sort of thing, I'd lean toward the former. Obviously, none of us really know.

Dude, you are high! Kevin Johnson is an excellent Commentary Broadcaster! :kitten:

BullNation4Life
01-12-2012, 03:51 PM
Dude, you are high! Kevin Johnson is an excellent Commentary Broadcaster! :kitten:

Hell of a basketball player too. Anybody from H-Town remember this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifx_gRF-ouU

dream_team
01-12-2012, 04:41 PM
I still would like to know why Harris has not played very much.

Alot of people would like to know this.

My hope is they drafted him to compete for a starting job. But then the Texans signed JoJo, and KJ & Allen have played solid... There's no reason to rush him on the field. Not to mention McCain has been awesome in the slot.

My feeling is Allen isn't re-signed and Harris takes over his spot.

eriadoc
01-12-2012, 04:46 PM
Alot of people would like to know this.

My hope is they drafted him to compete for a starting job. But then the Texans signed JoJo, and KJ & Allen have played solid... There's no reason to rush him on the field. Not to mention McCain has been awesome in the slot.

My feeling is Allen isn't re-signed and Harris takes over his spot.

That would be awful. Allen is a better CB than KJ. He's not a Pro Bowl caliber CB, but he makes plays on the ball and he actually looks for the ball, which results in fewer pass interference calls. If it were me, it would be an open competition for the #2, #3, and #4 CB job, and let the seeding work itself out. I suspect it would end up being Allen #2, KJ or Harris at #3, and the other at #4. McCain ends up being the 5th CB and ST player. McManus is the odd man out.

welsh texan
01-12-2012, 04:57 PM
That would be awful. Allen is a better CB than KJ. He's not a Pro Bowl caliber CB, but he makes plays on the ball and he actually looks for the ball, which results in fewer pass interference calls. If it were me, it would be an open competition for the #2, #3, and #4 CB job, and let the seeding work itself out. I suspect it would end up being Allen #2, KJ or Harris at #3, and the other at #4. McCain ends up being the 5th CB and ST player. McManus is the odd man out.

Missing out Roc Charmichael there. I have no problem with the Harris situation for now.

As I see it, KJ has spent this season recovering from last. Why put the next guy you draft in that same situation. When you look at what Wade and Vance have done in a short off-season with JoJo who's improved from good to elite, Allen and KJ who's weaknesses have been minimized, and McCain, who is back to his rookie form. Why one earth wouldn't you believe that behind the scenes Harris has spent this season getting better without the pressure to play. I can't wait to see him in pre-season.

gary
01-12-2012, 04:58 PM
Don't forget about Carmichael too who is on IR right now.

eriadoc
01-12-2012, 05:10 PM
Missing out Roc Charmichael there. I have no problem with the Harris situation for now.

As I see it, KJ has spent this season recovering from last. Why put the next guy you draft in that same situation.

There's a fair bit of middle ground between throwing a rookie out there as a starter with no competent vet across from him like they did to KJ and benching a second round rookie for an entire season. I'd feel a lot better about Harris if they had played him sparingly, in dime packages or certain situations. As it stands, he played nothing until the final game for a few snaps.

welsh texan
01-12-2012, 05:19 PM
There's a fair bit of middle ground between throwing a rookie out there as a starter with no competent vet across from him like they did to KJ and benching a second round rookie for an entire season. I'd feel a lot better about Harris if they had played him sparingly, in dime packages or certain situations. As it stands, he played nothing until the final game for a few snaps.

Yes but we have 7 CB's on our roster, one of which got put on IR presumably to stash him. Only 2 of those are established vets, the rest have shown flashes of potential. McCain belongs in this league, McMannis deserved his chance to prove whether or not he did, I doubt he belongs on this team next season. Allen possibly moves on depending on cost, but in a numbers game they may feel its better to take the potential over the guy who's hit his ceiling and will cost a lot more. Who knows.

eriadoc
01-12-2012, 05:22 PM
Yes but we have 7 CB's on our roster, one of which got put on IR presumably to stash him. Only 2 of those are established vets, the rest have shown flashes of potential. McCain belongs in this league, McMannis deserved his chance to prove whether or not he did, I doubt he belongs on this team next season. Allen possibly moves on depending on cost, but in a numbers game they may feel its better to take the potential over the guy who's hit his ceiling and will cost a lot more. Who knows.

I mostly agree. When money comes into play, I have no hard stance on it either way. When we're talking strictly about play on the field, however, Allen has been our second best CB. I'd hate for the team to let go their second best CB, especially when they've done nothing on the field to prepare the second round draft pick, Harris. As I said before, I'd feel a lot better about it if they'd played Harris some at dime this year.

Wolf
01-12-2012, 05:29 PM
Brandon Harris rookie diary: Winning, watching, waiting

By Brandon Harris, Special to HoustonTexans.com

Posted Dec 10, 2011



The season, itís been long. Itís been rough in some ways. Coming out of college, starting as a freshman, playing three years and leaving early and getting drafted in the second round here in Houston, there were a lot of high expectations of myself. I put a lot of high expectations on myself, also. The seasonís just had a different route for me right now this year. And nothing Iíve done wrong, itís just weíre playing so well right now as a team, as a secondary, the coaches feel like itís a great opportunity for me to just sit back, to learn from all the guys thatís in front of me, all the guys that are out there competing every weekend, just take mental notes and learn how to be a pro, learn little things like breaking down film and studying your opponent. They think itís going to help me become a great player in the future.

Itís kind of been different for me, but I understand my situation. I understand whatís going on, and Iíve always been a team player. Whatever the team needs to do to get better and to help the team perform well, Iím willing to do that. I know a lot of fans have been out there, theyíve been requesting me on Twitter. A lot of people want to see me out there. Iím excited that people want to see my play. Thatís exciting for me. That makes me come to practice every day and work even harder, because I know thereís people out there that want to see me on the field. Theyíre asking about me, like ĎWhen we gonna get a chance to see you?í Theyíre excited, and I just want to let them know Iím excited, also. My time is going to come, and when it does, Iíll be sure to make it worthwhile.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Brandon-Harris-rookie-diary-Winning-watching-waiting/e17077a3-1dcc-4f78-a1a8-6250cac64876

Jaysol
01-12-2012, 05:44 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Brandon-Harris-rookie-diary-Winning-watching-waiting/e17077a3-1dcc-4f78-a1a8-6250cac64876

Nice find! Rep+

Rey
01-12-2012, 05:52 PM
That would be awful. Allen is a better CB than KJ. He's not a Pro Bowl caliber CB, but he makes plays on the ball and he actually looks for the ball, which results in fewer pass interference calls. If it were me, it would be an open competition for the #2, #3, and #4 CB job, and let the seeding work itself out. I suspect it would end up being Allen #2, KJ or Harris at #3, and the other at #4. McCain ends up being the 5th CB and ST player. McManus is the odd man out.

McCain has been pretty damn good as the nickel this year...I really want to say that he has been awesome...

IF KJ is bumped from the starting line-up I'm not sure that he'd beat McCain out for the nickel CB position...McCain has made a lot of plays on the ball and in crucial situations too...

KJ would bring a different type of element to that nickel position, but I don't know if he would have the same type of impact...

eriadoc
01-12-2012, 06:37 PM
McCain has been pretty damn good as the nickel this year...I really want to say that he has been awesome...

IF KJ is bumped from the starting line-up I'm not sure that he'd beat McCain out for the nickel CB position...McCain has made a lot of plays on the ball and in crucial situations too...

KJ would bring a different type of element to that nickel position, but I don't know if he would have the same type of impact...

I'm trying to be optimistic. You're killing my optimism, man! :D

thunderkyss
01-12-2012, 06:45 PM
There's a fair bit of middle ground between throwing a rookie out there as a starter with no competent vet across from him like they did to KJ and benching a second round rookie for an entire season. I'd feel a lot better about Harris if they had played him sparingly, in dime packages or certain situations. As it stands, he played nothing until the final game for a few snaps.

Brandon Harris did play in a couple of games earlier in the season, didn't look too bad if you ask me.

I was surprised to see Allen make the team. I'd have thought they would have split time with Kj & Harris. But Allen continued to impress.

But even the Dime thing..... does Wade always throw in an extra safety, or has Nolan & Demps impressed enough to keep Harris off the active roster? Usually when we go Dime, they bring Quin up like a corner & bring in an extra safety. I'd have thought they'd bring in Harris & leave Quin at safety.

DocBar
01-12-2012, 08:05 PM
Brandon Harris did play in a couple of games earlier in the season, didn't look too bad if you ask me.

I was surprised to see Allen make the team. I'd have thought they would have split time with Kj & Harris. But Allen continued to impress.

But even the Dime thing..... does Wade always throw in an extra safety, or has Nolan & Demps impressed enough to keep Harris off the active roster? Usually when we go Dime, they bring Quin up like a corner & bring in an extra safety. I'd have thought they'd bring in Harris & leave Quin at safety.Allen has been more impressive than KJ. Maybe Allen made the team to lessen the impact of a 1st round bust in KJ while allowing Harris to develop in a normal manner.
As far as the extra safety, that could be for adding a definitely better tackler than maybe a somewhat better cover guy.

thunderkyss
01-12-2012, 08:17 PM
Allen has been more impressive than KJ. Maybe Allen made the team to lessen the impact of a 1st round bust in KJ while allowing Harris to develop in a normal manner.
As far as the extra safety, that could be for adding a definitely better tackler than maybe a somewhat better cover guy.

Allen has been more impressive to you.

& a bunch of the fans here.

Me, I'd much rather have Kj, I think he's a better cover corner. I also believe he is getting the lion's share of snaps because Wade/Vance think so as well.

It is highly abnormal for a 2nd round pick to not have substantial minutes on the field as a rookie.... maybe as the nickel, maybe as the dime...... but most rookie 1st & 2nd round picks would have played a lot by now.

TimeKiller
01-12-2012, 11:25 PM
Harris looked kinda lost to me. Not bad just....raw. He's getting the time he needs to develop, something KJ didn't get. He'll get a shot next year to show something. As far as KJ is concerned I think he's a nickel or maybe make the same move Quin did and back Quin up. I can't wait to see what Carmichael can bring but in the meantime it's nice to see McCain putting the clamps on. It's too bad he gets run over because he's awesome in coverage. McMannis is probably on the bubble next year. Allen has performed admirably but if it came down to keeping him or taking a shot on a new talent, I'd probably pickup a guy in the draft.

However it falls.....it's a lot easier to deal with having J-Jo on the top of that depth chart.

ObsiWan
01-13-2012, 12:53 AM
That would be awful. Allen is a better CB than KJ. He's not a Pro Bowl caliber CB, but he makes plays on the ball and he actually looks for the ball, which results in fewer pass interference calls. If it were me, it would be an open competition for the #2, #3, and #4 CB job, and let the seeding work itself out. I suspect it would end up being Allen #2, KJ or Harris at #3, and the other at #4. McCain ends up being the 5th CB and ST player. McManus is the odd man out.

As bad as everyone says Jackson is in pass coverage, Allen is just as bad (worse if you ask me) in run support. And run support is also a big part of a CB's job. That is one thing ole "Pay-Me-Rick" did rather well, step up in run support.

Allen refuses to stick his nose into any sweeps or off-tackle plays to his side.

When was the last time you recall Allen knifing in to stop a running play or taking on a RB to prevent a screen from gaining big yds.

Too bad we can't take Allen's ball skills and Jackson's tackling on running plays and combine them into one DB.

76Texan
01-13-2012, 01:22 AM
As bad as everyone says Jackson is in pass coverage, Allen is just as bad (worse if you ask me) in run support. And run support is also a big part of a CB's job. That is one thing ole "Pay-Me-Rick" did rather well, step up in run support.

Allen refuses to stick his nose into any sweeps or off-tackle plays to his side.

When was the last time you recall Allen knifing in to stop a running play or taking on a RB to prevent a screen from gaining big yds.

Too bad we can't take Allen's ball skills and Jackson's tackling on running plays and combine them into one DB.

I have to give Allen some props. He did improve his game quite a bit this year, including the tackling department (KJ is still quite better in this regard and he set the edge much much better.) I agree with you on this point; people tend to forget what Foster (and Tate) do on our stretch plays. If they recall the yards and the TDs we got from our RBs, they will appreciate KJ much more. If he doesn't make the tackle himself, he would set the edge and turn the runner inside or slow him down some. Allen still missed some tackles here and there.

Also, we send more support toward Allen. At times, due to this, the offense would go the other way where there's single coverage, or fewer defenders in general. Why else do you think that the opponents' other weapons can have certain success in certain games against our D?
In the passing game, a pure double-team on a receiver would most usually prompt the QB to go elsewhere.
In the running game, when a CB is on an island, it allows a safety to come down to attack the run.

When taking everything into account, I'm staying firm with KJ as the better option at #2.

McCain made some plays at nickel, but he also gave up some plays.
And don't forget that as a nickel, safety's help is usually near, allowing McCain to play more aggressive.

PHAROAH
01-13-2012, 03:38 AM
Houston nailed the 2011 draft my question is who was calling the shots with the picks because we nailed them and I think that once Brandon Harris comes around this will become an A+ no doubt about it.

SteveSlaton20
01-13-2012, 04:07 PM
I think Harris didn't play a lot because they didn't want to ruin him by throwing him into the pack too soon, ala KJ, so they wanted him to learn from the sideline. And tbh we really didn't need him this season. JoJo the LCB, KJ/Allen RCB, Brice McCain the nickle(who played lights out IMO), and I believe Manning(?) moved down into dime and we put Nolan or Demps back at safety. I think he'll get a lot more playing time me t year for sure. And wasn't he hurt for a few games anyways?