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View Full Version : Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?


RTP2110
01-10-2012, 07:43 AM
Ok, I know itís way out of Kubiakís character, but thatís exactly why Baltimore would never see it coming. I kinda think weíre going to need some kind of out of the ordinary play to pull out this win. (Kick return, defensive TD, etc.)

Last week Kubiak ran a play that started with an empty backfield and Casey out in the slot. Casey motioned into the backfield and the play was a toss sweep to him. Now that the play is on film, what if we ran the same thing and let him take the pitch out to Andreís side. Andre will momentarily run block, then release up field hopefully wide open for a TD. If itís not there, then Casey simply gets what he can on the ground.

speedfreek
01-10-2012, 07:45 AM
If we have to do something like that, then the game is already out of hand..

TJ

SeŮor Stan
01-10-2012, 07:45 AM
Ok, I know itís way out of Kubiakís character, but thatís exactly why Baltimore would never see it coming. I kinda think weíre going to need some kind of out of the ordinary play to pull out this win. (Kick return, defensive TD, etc.)

Last week Kubiak ran a play that started with an empty backfield and Casey out in the slot. Casey motioned into the backfield and the play was a toss sweep to him. Now that the play is on film, what if we ran the same thing and let him take the pitch out to Andreís side. Andre will momentarily run block, then release up field hopefully wide open for a TD. If itís not there, then Casey simply gets what he can on the ground.

I like it! However, I don't think he is fully recovered from his torn pec. Don't think he can throw.

amazing80
01-10-2012, 07:46 AM
Ok, I know itís way out of Kubiakís character, but thatís exactly why Baltimore would never see it coming. I kinda think weíre going to need some kind of out of the ordinary play to pull out this win. (Kick return, defensive TD, etc.)

Last week Kubiak ran a play that started with an empty backfield and Casey out in the slot. Casey motioned into the backfield and the play was a toss sweep to him. Now that the play is on film, what if we ran the same thing and let him take the pitch out to Andreís side. Andre will momentarily run block, then release up field hopefully wide open for a TD. If itís not there, then Casey simply gets what he can on the ground.

I swear to Tebow, I though we were doing exactly this when the play began lol, I would LOVE for this to happen, and honestly I bet it does. Weren't we up 2 tds at this point? I bet we did it to set the Ravens up next week.....JMHO

srrono
01-10-2012, 08:10 AM
I want Casey involved this week I think Casey is a big mismatch against Pollard & R.Lewis.

Now as for a trick play I would like to see a fake punt just because I think it could work do to the suprise factor with Kubiak being so conservative, but it would have to be timed perfectly. Man it would be a long offseason if we lost due to Kubiak trying something so out of character we would all just kill him on the boards. LOL so second thought no just win.

Txn_in_Oki
01-10-2012, 08:24 AM
No.


























Crackpot.
:mariopalm:

El Tejano
01-10-2012, 08:27 AM
I would do it in the same way that Oakland did it to us. Same game circumstance, same quarter, same time of quarter, same # of posession....everything. That was such a good call and in most cases the reason they won the game.

Blake
01-10-2012, 08:27 AM
Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

If it was for a touchdown, yes. Interception, no.

Kthx
01-10-2012, 08:32 AM
Why stop here, lets pick Chris Brown back up from wherever he is and let him run the play for us.

michaelm
01-10-2012, 08:32 AM
No, but I'm waiting for Kubiak to pull a fake punt or fake field goal. IIRC, he hasn't done either of those since becoming HC, so he's been setting Baltimore up for a fake for 6 years. They'd never expect it, because he just doesn't do it.

drunkcookie
01-10-2012, 08:44 AM
Hmmm... At first i thought, "Here we go... Every time a team has a back/receiver with past qb experience, their fans always wanna see some type of trick play with that player throwing deep etc..." Then i remembered: it's the playoffs... It's on the road against Baltimore with a 3rd string rookie qb... Hell yah i do it!

2012Champs
01-10-2012, 09:35 AM
Id rather TJ throw a handful of 40+ yard attempts into double/triple coverage to AJ vs this idea

Hardcore Texan
01-10-2012, 09:38 AM
At least the OP is thinking outside the box, I hope Kubiak is too. And then enter the negative nancys into the thread to piss in people's cornflakes.....

Txn_in_Oki
01-10-2012, 09:51 AM
And then enter the negative nancys into the thread to piss in people's cornflakes.....

Really?

Let's just have Yates put his left leg in.

His left leg out.

His left leg in.

And throw a touchdown all about.

C'mon man... do we really need to get this out of hand?

TimeKiller
01-10-2012, 09:52 AM
Sounds a lil' too tricky for Kubiak. I do expect Casey to play a big part though. Decoying out wide to get a LBer to follow him or just plain beating the older, slower LBers they have on passing routes. Especially with OD's hand being beat up, I think it would be a wise decision to involve Casey in the offense this week.

GP
01-10-2012, 09:58 AM
I like the idea of the thread, I won't knock the OP for suggesting the possibility of such an idea.

I wonder if Kubiak would be hesitant to call the play, though, when it failed miserably for him a couple seasons ago. Plus, it's the playoffs and I don't think he wants to answer the questions after a loss (if we lost).

HOWEVER....the OP has introduced an element that I think makes it plausible that Kubiak could utilize a HB pass with Casey. Why? What purpose could there have been to have Casey on a sweep/toss that late in the game. It very well could have been to put it on film for opponents and then hit them with a HB pass out of that same formation in the future.

Good thread.

Calface4
01-10-2012, 10:03 AM
This sort of play is so uncharacteristic of the Texans that I completely believe it would work! Getting turnovers against the Ravens will be really difficult so taking a risk like this could just possibly get us the momentum we need to take control of the game.

I like the idea.

2012Champs
01-10-2012, 10:03 AM
At least the OP is thinking outside the box, I hope Kubiak is too. And then enter the negative nancys into the thread to piss in people's cornflakes.....



well in that case why dont we have Dre throw it to foster or cushing throw it to JJ


:kubepalm:

RTP2110
01-10-2012, 10:15 AM
it's the playoffs... It's on the road against Baltimore with a 3rd string rookie qb... Hell yah i do it!

This sort of play is so uncharacteristic of the Texans that I completely believe it would work!

These are some of the exact same thoughts I had. I don't think it's that far fetched really. Pittsburgh did it with a ton of success when they had Randle El.




Why stop here, lets pick Chris Brown back up from wherever he is and let him run the play for us.

well in that case why dont we have Dre throw it to foster or cushing throw it to JJ


Obviously, the big difference being that Casey actually has some QB/passing experience as opposed to CB or AJ.

Hardcore Texan
01-10-2012, 10:15 AM
Really?

Let's just have Yates put his left leg in.

His left leg out.

His left leg in.

And throw a touchdown all about.

C'mon man... do we really need to get this out of hand?


This makes zero sense to me, not sure wth you're talking about.

well in that case why dont we have Dre throw it to foster or cushing throw it to JJ


:kubepalm:

Now that would be ridiculous. At least Casey was a college QB. I am not even a proponent for running the suggested play. Was just complimenting the creativity, instead of pissing on someone's idea. I hope Kubiak is finding ways to catch the Ravens off guard too. I didn't necessarily disagree with your idea either, everyone knows triple coverage ain't stopping AJ. ;)

Texanmike02
01-10-2012, 10:15 AM
How about we just let Casey catch a few this week? One step at a time folks.

Mike

EllisUnit
01-10-2012, 10:16 AM
You could sort of do the same thing with Daniels, we all know he can atleast throw the ball.

Our if Jacoby can throw, which i dont know if he can, do the reverse that we occasionally run with him, going to AJs side, like you said have AJ block and then release and see what happens.

eriadoc
01-10-2012, 10:19 AM
If you're going to run a HB pass play, do it with someone like Casey, NOT Chris Brown. What the hell ever possessed Kubiak to call that play .....

I like the idea of pulling a fast one at some point in the game, but the lead-up is more important than the play. I'm not too sure about a halfback pass, though.

drunkcookie
01-10-2012, 10:21 AM
I think makes it plausible that Kubiak could utilize a HB pass with Casey. Why? What purpose could there have been to have Casey on a sweep/toss that late in the game. It very well could have been to put it on film for opponents and then hit them with a HB pass out of that same formation in the future.

Good thread.

Good point...

Now another question...when?

Right off the bat? Later in the game when they can't get anything going?

I don't see why you wouldn't do something like that down 14-Zip early in the 4th...

Or early on, maybe get some momentum going early in the game?

Playoffs
01-10-2012, 10:32 AM
Desperate measures are for desperate circumstances...

We can beat these guys straight up.

gtexan02
01-10-2012, 10:34 AM
I want to see a fake punt personally. That always seems to work

Hervoyel
01-10-2012, 10:36 AM
No, but I'm waiting for Kubiak to pull a fake punt or fake field goal. IIRC, he hasn't done either of those since becoming HC, so he's been setting Baltimore up for a fake for 6 years. They'd never expect it, because he just doesn't do it.

Too soon. Don't pull the trigger on that until the time is right. Wait a few more seasons just to be on the safe side....

Hardcore Texan
01-10-2012, 10:39 AM
I want to see a fake punt personally. That always seems to work

Remember the unplanned fake punt a couple of seasons ago? Turk got like 18 yards or something like that and a first down. I think he went to punt and a defender was closing too fast, so he tucked it and took off. He had an oh sh*! expression on his face the whole time.

amazing80
01-10-2012, 10:50 AM
Good point...

Now another question...when?

Right off the bat? Later in the game when they can't get anything going?

I don't see why you wouldn't do something like that down 14-Zip early in the 4th...

Or early on, maybe get some momentum going early in the game?

Personally, do it in like the 2nd quarter. Get the game going hopefully you are getting PA or good runs prior to that, and midway through the 2nd quarter you hit them while they least expect it. Run the motion, put Casey in backfield, run the sweep left, slide the oline, hit AJ deep on the right side of the field, streaking at an angle back across the middle, so it is slightly shorter of a pass.....

Hardcore Texan
01-10-2012, 10:54 AM
Personally, do it in like the 2nd quarter. Get the game going hopefully you are getting PA or good runs prior to that, and midway through the 2nd quarter you hit them while they least expect it. Run the motion, put Casey in backfield, run the sweep left, slide the oline, hit AJ deep on the right side of the field, streaking at an angle back across the middle, so it is slightly shorter of a pass.....

I think it has to be one of those gut feeling type things. If they go over it, have it ready just in case. I would only be okay with it in a very few limited situations. I'd rather not see it, because that mean things are not going well.

Personally, I think lean on the run game and defense, same formula that has worked. Get AJ involved, take a couple shots downfield if they start stacking the box. AJ will do wonders for our run game this time around.

NitroGSXR
01-10-2012, 11:00 AM
I would rather score on our opening drive then do an onside right after. All in.

gary
01-10-2012, 11:02 AM
How about sending Rackers out for a FG and then letting him or the place holder either run or throw the football?

drunkcookie
01-10-2012, 11:07 AM
I would rather score on our opening drive then do an onside right after. All in.

Amen...all in...

BullNation4Life
01-10-2012, 11:09 AM
Ok, I know itís way out of Kubiakís character, but thatís exactly why Baltimore would never see it coming. I kinda think weíre going to need some kind of out of the ordinary play to pull out this win. (Kick return, defensive TD, etc.)

Last week Kubiak ran a play that started with an empty backfield and Casey out in the slot. Casey motioned into the backfield and the play was a toss sweep to him. Now that the play is on film, what if we ran the same thing and let him take the pitch out to Andreís side. Andre will momentarily run block, then release up field hopefully wide open for a TD. If itís not there, then Casey simply gets what he can on the ground.

http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/common/medialib/271/551206.jpg

Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. Come on. Come here. Come here. Come on. Come on, everybody.

All right, this is it. This is the play. kay. This is the play. This is the play. kay?

The quarterback. Two receivers lined up to the left, one to the right. There's a flanker lined up to the left behind the quarterback.

okay. He gives the ball... No, he doesn't get the ball. The receiver goes all the way over there to the left.

Once the quarterback has the ball, he fakes to the left, No. He fakes to the right. He doesn't fake. He thinks about faking. He pretends to fake.



I don't know where I am....

CloakNNNdagger
01-10-2012, 11:14 AM
The one thing I don't want, is to see a post game quote from Kubiak that goes something like this.

I was so clever that even I didn't understand a single thing that I was doing.:kitten:

DerekLee1
01-10-2012, 01:11 PM
Misdirection and fakes, sure. Gimmick plays? No way. Let your players do what they do best at their positions.

ThaJokaa
01-10-2012, 01:46 PM
I like it but didnt Kubes say after the Jacksonville game that he didn't have Casey warming up cuz he couldn't throw yet due to his pectoral injury?

TexCanada
01-10-2012, 02:02 PM
If it was for a touchdown, yes. Interception, no.

Agreed. If the play works I'll call it genius, if it doesn't then I'll be angry and calling for Kubiak's head. So goes the life of a sports fan :)

BigBull17
01-10-2012, 02:05 PM
Ok, I know itís way out of Kubiakís character, but thatís exactly why Baltimore would never see it coming. I kinda think weíre going to need some kind of out of the ordinary play to pull out this win. (Kick return, defensive TD, etc.)

Last week Kubiak ran a play that started with an empty backfield and Casey out in the slot. Casey motioned into the backfield and the play was a toss sweep to him. Now that the play is on film, what if we ran the same thing and let him take the pitch out to Andreís side. Andre will momentarily run block, then release up field hopefully wide open for a TD. If itís not there, then Casey simply gets what he can on the ground.

I was there really early nd Casey was practicing throws while running. Like a toss pass. When he got the sweep, I thought it was coming.

Texan_Bill
01-10-2012, 02:06 PM
Hell yeah, I'd let him throw one....



Right after he scored a TD by rushing or receiving. Then he can launch that sucker right into the upper deck if he wants.

drunkcookie
01-10-2012, 02:08 PM
Misdirection and fakes, sure. Gimmick plays? No way. Let your players do what they do best at their positions.

No, you do what you have to do so you can play next week... If what our players do best still has them down 14/7 and it isn't looking good, you throw stubborness and straight-up football out the window for a play and try to take a chunk out...no doubt...

Maddict5
01-10-2012, 03:08 PM
Too soon. Don't pull the trigger on that until the time is right. Wait a few more seasons just to be on the safe side....

...says the guy who's always complaining about how kubiak gets too cute and outsmarts himself :rolleyes:

Hervoyel
01-10-2012, 04:55 PM
The more I think about it the less I think this team needs its own "Stagger Lee" moment.

Norg
01-10-2012, 11:30 PM
carolina did it to us

IMO to beat elite teams u musht have some luck and tricky

NEw orleans did it to indy in the SB for god shakes

VTexan
01-10-2012, 11:41 PM
Nice try, John Harbaugh.

GP
01-10-2012, 11:43 PM
I despise gimmick plays. Waste of a down, has the potential to blow up in your face, and then your team loses heart and the opponent gets a surge of momentum.

The risk outweighs the reward, IMO.

The only way I think this play would work is if you had a bunched formation, almost a goal line look...you'd have to draw in the LBs and the DBs close to the line at pre-snap. Toss the ball to James Casey and hope your WRs and TEs can get separation enough, due to the defense being crowded up at the LOS, that your receivers can get into space and catch a pass.

To me, the play would be designed to hit either AJ with all other receivers running routes to open space for AJ to find a mismatch out there, or you find a way to get Foster to be ACROSS THE FIELD and out in space. Or even Yates, who can run pretty well for a QB.

Frankly though, I would rather us just use normal plays and forget the trick plays altogether. I hate the idea of us using a trick play and it backfiring on us badly. We've come to far to let a failed trick play be our demise in some form or fashion. Trick plays are fun when you're a kid on the playground.

NitroGSXR
01-10-2012, 11:51 PM
I despise gimmick plays. Waste of a down, has the potential to blow up in your face, and then your team loses heart and the opponent gets a surge of momentum.

The risk outweighs the reward, IMO.

The only way I think this play would work is if you had a bunched formation, almost a goal line look...you'd have to draw in the LBs and the DBs close to the line at pre-snap. Toss the ball to James Casey and hope your WRs and TEs can get separation enough, due to the defense being crowded up at the LOS, that your receivers can get into space and catch a pass.

To me, the play would be designed to hit either AJ with all other receivers running routes to open space for AJ to find a mismatch out there, or you find a way to get Foster to be ACROSS THE FIELD and out in space. Or even Yates, who can run pretty well for a QB.

Frankly though, I would rather us just use normal plays and forget the trick plays altogether. I hate the idea of us using a trick play and it backfiring on us badly. We've come to far to let a failed trick play be our demise in some form or fashion. Trick plays are fun when you're a kid on the playground.

I could see the Statue of Liberty being effective with Arian Foster back there.

:)

GP
01-10-2012, 11:56 PM
I could see the Statue of Liberty being effective with Arian Foster back there.

:)

OK, now you reminded me of when the Boise State team (Zabransky at QB and Ian Johnson at RB, IIRC) used the Statue of Liberty play against the Sooners a few season ago in a bowl game down in Arizona.

THAT was a beautiful trick play. Carried out 100% perfectly.

I wouldn't mind seeing us try the play Carolina used against us, actually.

See what you've gone and done to me?!?! Now I'm liking the idea of using a trick play. :(

I've been tricked into liking trick plays. LOL.

ThaJokaa
01-11-2012, 12:00 AM
link to the play?

GP
01-11-2012, 12:05 AM
link to the play?

Statue of Liberty play is HERE at this link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4s8vdzYwFU). The first play of the clip is a hook-and-lateral play the Broncos used against the Sooners to score the TD. Boise State then used the Statue of Liberty play to get the 2-point conversion. My friends who are Sooner grads were sooooo embarrassed that they lost like this. LOL.

BullNation4Life
01-11-2012, 07:47 AM
I despise gimmick plays. Waste of a down, has the potential to blow up in your face, and then your team loses heart and the opponent gets a surge of momentum.

The risk outweighs the reward, IMO.

The only way I think this play would work is if you had a bunched formation, almost a goal line look...you'd have to draw in the LBs and the DBs close to the line at pre-snap. Toss the ball to James Casey and hope your WRs and TEs can get separation enough, due to the defense being crowded up at the LOS, that your receivers can get into space and catch a pass.

To me, the play would be designed to hit either AJ with all other receivers running routes to open space for AJ to find a mismatch out there, or you find a way to get Foster to be ACROSS THE FIELD and out in space. Or even Yates, who can run pretty well for a QB.

Frankly though, I would rather us just use normal plays and forget the trick plays altogether. I hate the idea of us using a trick play and it backfiring on us badly. We've come to far to let a failed trick play be our demise in some form or fashion. Trick plays are fun when you're a kid on the playground.

Ha, tell that to the Carolina Panthers who made the Texans defense look like a bunch of kids on a playground as they were stomping a mud hole in them and walking it dry then made them look like idiots with the "Annexation of Puerto Rico"....

or Shaun Peyton going for an onside kick right after the half against the Colts in the Super Bowl...

or the Tennessee Titans in the "Music City Miracle" Wade Phillips could tell you all about that....







but then there is the "Chris Brown Debacle of 2009" to support your "risk vs reward" theory...

pirbroke
01-11-2012, 08:34 AM
Didn't we try a trick play last year with fullback Leach throwing a perfect interception in the redzone. I can't remember the team and it might have been two years ago but the pass was just awful.

Sigma
01-11-2012, 08:50 AM
Ok, I know itís way out of Kubiakís character, but thatís exactly why Baltimore would never see it coming. I kinda think weíre going to need some kind of out of the ordinary play to pull out this win. (Kick return, defensive TD, etc.)

Last week Kubiak ran a play that started with an empty backfield and Casey out in the slot. Casey motioned into the backfield and the play was a toss sweep to him. Now that the play is on film, what if we ran the same thing and let him take the pitch out to Andreís side. Andre will momentarily run block, then release up field hopefully wide open for a TD. If itís not there, then Casey simply gets what he can on the ground.

I do think we'll need to play "out of the ordinary" (Offence) to win this, but I think Kick returns will be difficult as everyone knows JJones is way better punt returner then WideR...

I think they will be prepared to put extra effort in those situations

Trail.Blazr
01-11-2012, 09:10 AM
Didn't we try a trick play last year with fullback Leach throwing a perfect interception in the redzone. I can't remember the team and it might have been two years ago but the pass was just awful.

I think that was Chris Brown, not Leach, but yes... that was awful.

RTP2110
01-11-2012, 09:14 AM
I despise gimmick plays. Waste of a down, has the potential to blow up in your face, and then your team loses heart and the opponent gets a surge of momentum.

The risk outweighs the reward, IMO.

The only way I think this play would work is if you had a bunched formation, almost a goal line look...you'd have to draw in the LBs and the DBs close to the line at pre-snap. Toss the ball to James Casey and hope your WRs and TEs can get separation enough, due to the defense being crowded up at the LOS, that your receivers can get into space and catch a pass.

To me, the play would be designed to hit either AJ with all other receivers running routes to open space for AJ to find a mismatch out there, or you find a way to get Foster to be ACROSS THE FIELD and out in space. Or even Yates, who can run pretty well for a QB.

Frankly though, I would rather us just use normal plays and forget the trick plays altogether. I hate the idea of us using a trick play and it backfiring on us badly. We've come to far to let a failed trick play be our demise in some form or fashion. Trick plays are fun when you're a kid on the playground.


I understand what you concerned about, but I don't think the potential for disaster is a great as your saying. Just to use the original post as an example, if you run Casey out on a toss sweep he has a run/pass option. If nothing is there he could just tuck his head and run. If it's really bad, and he's under duress, he just throws it our of bounds. So there are a few built in safeguards that can prevent disaster from happening.

I also don't think it's a waste of a down if you run a trick play in the right situation. If it's 14-10 in the 4th quarter, then no way should you even think about it. Just stick to the gameplan. But what if its 14-3, and your offense has done nothing all day? It could be worth a chance. Maybe you find yourself in a 2nd & 1 situation which would be a great opportunity. All that being said, and knowing Kubiak, it will probably never happen. Just fun to talk about nonetheless.

Rey
01-11-2012, 09:39 AM
I don't mind "trick" plays...

No one was complaining when LT was throwing TD's with the chargers...

A lot of football is about catching your opponent off guard...Yeah, there are times when you say "everyone knows what we are going to do, now stop it"....

But in order to be successful, as a play caller, you have to find a good balance and know when to gamble and when to just play it straight...

There is a lot that goes into play calling and I don't get mad unless something is just obviously stupid. I didn't get mad when Chris Brown threw that INT against Jacksonville because the idea was good, but the execution was poor...

But doing something "tricky" every now and then keeps your opponents on their toes and it doesn't let them key in on exactly what you're doing. That is the point. They have to play everything honestly and can't cheat up, or cheat back, or cheat over...Hell, our offense is basically set up that way with the bootlegs...It's just another way of keeping the defense honest...

Rey
01-11-2012, 09:43 AM
I despise gimmick plays. Waste of a down, has the potential to blow up in your face, and then your team loses heart and the opponent gets a surge of momentum.

The risk outweighs the reward, IMO.


You could say the same thing about going for it on 4th and short in certain situations where you don't have to...

Yes there is some risk involved, but that's where play callers/HC's make their money....

I'm not saying that we MUST do it, but I think that the occasional wrinkle is ok.

thunderkyss
01-11-2012, 10:34 AM
well in that case why dont we have Dre throw it to foster or cushing throw it to JJ


:kubepalm:

I was thinking we could have Foster running towards the tackle, then pitch it out to Casey like the option.

GP
01-11-2012, 10:48 AM
In reply to those who have replied to me...

The old "If there's nothing there he could just throw it away" theory sounds good, but I don't trust a guy under pressure to think very clearly...I expect him to think he can make a play out of it, which will get a bad result. When you're under fire, and you've practiced the play over and over in only a few days leading up to the game...you begin to think it's up to YOU to make it happen, even in the heat of the moment when logic says to you, "Don't do it," your heart and passion for the play to succeed says, "You CAN do it. Trust that it's there. Throw it."

The comment from rey, IIRC, about how going for it on 4th and 1 and how that's similar to the risk of using a trick play...I don't agree. On a 4th and 1, you're doing what you've done since middle school football: Trying to pound away and get that 1 yard. You've practiced and performed lots of 3rd and 1, 2nd and 1, and even 4th and 1. You've likely never practiced AND performed trick plays as much as you have a 1-yard situation. The two scenarios are wildly different.

Lastly, the comments about The Music City Miracle and the Saints going for onside kick vs. Colts in Super Bowl. Those were two plays born out of sheer necessity (Ok, the Saints onside kick is arguable...but they were needing to get that score, not pulling an onside kick to get a 21-point lead on the Colts). The topic at hand, here, is about using a trick play in mid-stream of a game. Why do it? I don't get it. Just run your normal playbook and toss the trickery away for a more prudent time.

All in all, the replies are weak sauce. Trick plays out of nowhere, in the middle of a game to try and surprise your opponent, just boggle my mind.

ObsiWan
01-11-2012, 11:02 AM
If we have to do something like that, then the game is already out of hand..

TJ
Not necessarily. The Steelers did it in SB XL to break open a tight game. (see below)
Why stop here, lets pick Chris Brown back up from wherever he is and let him run the play for us.
Okay, now you're just being silly.
Id rather TJ throw a handful of 40+ yard attempts into double/triple coverage to AJ vs this idea
So you'd rather throw into the strength of the defense several times than take one chance like this per game. Help me find the logic in that...
Misdirection and fakes, sure. Gimmick plays? No way. Let your players do what they do best at their positions.
Agreed. If the play works I'll call it genius, if it doesn't then I'll be angry and calling for Kubiak's head. So goes the life of a sports fan :)
At least you're up front about it. I can respect that.
:D

ObsiWan
01-11-2012, 11:33 AM
...doing something "tricky" every now and then keeps your opponents on their toes and it doesn't let them key in on exactly what you're doing. That is the point. They have to play everything honestly and can't cheat up, or cheat back, or cheat over...Hell, our offense is basically set up that way with the bootlegs...It's just another way of keeping the defense honest...

I'm with you here. I don't have an issue with doing something unconventional and uncharacteristic to throw the defense off balance.

Remember when Cowher's Steelers used Randall El to break the Seahawks' back in SB XL.

Probably the biggest play of the night, though, was Randle El's touchdown pass to Ward on a double-reverse play. The score essentially put the game out of reach and, typically, was set up perfectly by Whisenhunt on a previous call. Two plays before the gimmickry, the Steelers had run a quick screen to Randle El for a 7-yard gain. So on the long pass play, Pittsburgh aligned in the same formation, brought the tight end in motion, and tried to bait the Seahawks into thinking the screen was coming again.

Instead, Parker took a pitch, then handed it off to Randle El, who found Ward behind the Seahawks' defense for the score. Key to the play, Whisenhunt and Steelers players said, was the realization that the Seahawks were playing minus two starters in the secondary, and that the backup Pruitt was likely to bite on the reverse, and come up into the no-man's land in which no defensive back wants to be caught.

Last week, in offering his views on the game to ESPN.com, New England head coach Bill Belichick was adamant that Randle El would make a big play in Super Bowl XL. A play, he said, for which "an opponent can't plan." The "Fake-39 Toss X-Reverse Pass" was that play.

Randle El has three options on the play: throw deep to Ward, throw to Parker, who after pitching the ball proceeds up the left sideline, or keep the ball and run. Ward was so far behind Pruitt and cornerback Marcus Trufant (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6347), though, there was really no option at all.

"I was so open," recalled Ward, who finished with five catches for 123 yards, "that I just kept thinking, 'Please, ball get here, huh!' It just seemed like it happened in such slow motion, you know? But it was a great play call, at just the right time, something that we had run before and had some success with, and it worked again.



I particularly like the Steelers' version because it gives the passer three options, two of which are quick & easy reads.
Is the deep guy wide open?
If "yes" hurry up and throw it for six.
If "no" check the short guy.

Is the short guy wide open?
If "yes" hurry up and throw it for a nice gain (Hey, and if it's Foster, maybe he breaks it).
If "no" keep it and run.

Run the reverse. If they've maintained deep coverage AND have the RB (that should be 10-15 yds downfield) also covered, that means pulling it down and running it (especially with Casey being the ball carrier) should be able to pick up some nice yardage. Not to mention giving the defense something else to worry about.
Another thing I liked about this play was when they decided to run it. They ran it on first & 10. ...at mid-field. If it blows up - meaning all of the three options above are covered, worse case it's 2nd & 10.

And worse/worse case let's assume that GP's scenario, where Casey suddenly goes into "Hero Mode" (or panic mode), is credible. I don't think it is but let's play along. Casey tries to go deep but underthrows or floats one allowing Ed Reed to come back and make a play on the ball. IMO, that's no different than if T.J. tries to go deep to Andre and Reed makes a play on the ball. If we do this from midfield, it's as good as a punt.

all that to say, I like the idea but we need to be judicious in when it's done (consider down, field position, ebb & flow of the game, etc.; i.e., don't do it in desparation) and how we set it up (like the Steelers, make it look like something that burned the defense previously).

infantrycak
01-11-2012, 11:54 AM
But doing something "tricky" every now and then keeps your opponents on their toes and it doesn't let them key in on exactly what you're doing. That is the point. They have to play everything honestly and can't cheat up, or cheat back, or cheat over...Hell, our offense is basically set up that way with the bootlegs...It's just another way of keeping the defense honest...

Agreed, not as a 1-2 times per game thing but 2-3 times a season. Personnel really matters. LT was 8 of 12 for 7 TD's as a passer. Why would you remove that from the playbook just to avoid trick plays.

Best trick play threat I can remember - Danny White as punter. Better legs than most punters and a heck of a threat to pass.

The old "If there's nothing there he could just throw it away" theory sounds good, but I don't trust a guy under pressure to think very clearly...I expect him to think he can make a play out of it, which will get a bad result. When you're under fire, and you've practiced the play over and over in only a few days leading up to the game...you begin to think it's up to YOU to make it happen, even in the heat of the moment when logic says to you, "Don't do it," your heart and passion for the play to succeed says, "You CAN do it. Trust that it's there. Throw it."

This isn't trying to teach Vonte Leach to throw a ball and make good decisions. We are talking about a guy who was a starting QB in HS and then in college was repeatedly called upon to make throws as well.