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View Full Version : Andre Johnson or Randy Moss ?


throwANDREtheBALL
05-01-2005, 09:02 PM
I'd like to know who you guys think has more potential ?

Has Moss already hit his potential? Is Moss already on the decline?

I like Johnson since he's a lot tougher, stronger, NORMAL.

But, lets say both of these guys came out of college at the same time and we had to pick one.



I'd still take Johnson, how about you?



I just read this, and thought it was hilarious

"I think Randy exudes that kind of personality," Collins said. "He doesn't walk around like he's better than everyone else. I think he's going to be a good teammate." (Kerry Collins on new teammate Randy Moss)


I always had a feeling Kerry was a SPECIAL person, now I have proof.

WpgTexansFan
05-01-2005, 09:14 PM
I may be a HUGE texans fan... but lets be realistic... Moss is probably hands down the best reciever.. and yes im including owens... I mean... anybody who can make Culpepper look good has my vote.. And despite how Johnson is more of a "team player" and had a better attitude than moss... I'd still rather have Moss..

Moss can win a game on his own... The fact of the matter is that johnson .. despite what everyone here thinks.. cannot :penguin:

Even the dancing penguin agrees with me =p

TopTexanFan16
05-01-2005, 09:20 PM
"Moss can win a game on his own... The fact of the matter is that johnson .. despite what everyone here thinks.. cannot "

dude we must not be watching the same games. did u not watch the minnesota game in which AJ nearly won the game for us and put us in overtime or the Kansas city game which if AJ did not make those crazy catches we wouldnt have won. he does win games and anyways the question asked comin outa college not based on what there stats are now so if u still wanna take moss over AJ comin outa college thats cool but i dont see how its even fair to compare AJ and moss now of course moss is better but in time AJ will be the best hes only been in the league comin on 3 years now. but wow i totally disagree with that post.

Wolf
05-01-2005, 09:40 PM
they both command respect.
IF Moss wants to play.. IMO.. he is the best at this point
Dre... is more consistant.. Dre will block and do the little things.. Dre could be better than Moss. If Dre would be in Minnesota's system, it would be scary also

no one can confuse.these groups
Chris Carter,Randy Moss and Jake Reed
Andre Johnson, Bradford and Gaffney

Paragon Blue
05-01-2005, 09:41 PM
If Carr had as much time as Culpepper to throw the ball AJ would have huge numbers. AJ hands down.

YodAa
05-01-2005, 09:43 PM
If AJ had a number #2 WR to take some defenders and Carr had his Oline AJ would rewrite the record books. How many times has there been a thread like this?

Doom Capers
05-01-2005, 10:08 PM
Moss, all the way. Andre is my favorite receiver, but Moss is amazing. Moss strikes fear in the heart of any defender, AJ may some, but give him a few more years. Moss has just blow me away in every game I have seen him play.

Carr Bombed
05-01-2005, 10:14 PM
I may be a HUGE texans fan... but lets be realistic... Moss is probably hands down the best reciever.. and yes im including owens... I mean... anybody who can make Culpepper look good has my vote.. And despite how Johnson is more of a "team player" and had a better attitude than moss... I'd still rather have Moss..

Moss can win a game on his own... The fact of the matter is that johnson .. despite what everyone here thinks.. cannot :penguin:

Even the dancing penguin agrees with me =p

What's your beef with Culpepper, he is a very good QB. Last year when Moss was out he was sill getting it done and he had a great season, the only problem is Manning had the best season of any qb so no one noticed. Culpepper made the progression from a running qb to a passing qb who only runs when he has to.

Panther5407
05-01-2005, 10:15 PM
Wasn't Cullpeper the one who threw for the most yards last season? If so, then he must be bad. Also, didn't Randy miss a couple of games too? Yet Cullpeper still got those yards.

infantrycak
05-01-2005, 10:31 PM
I'd like to know who you guys think has more potential ?

Has Moss already hit his potential? Is Moss already on the decline?

I like Johnson since he's a lot tougher, stronger, NORMAL.

But, lets say both of these guys came out of college at the same time and we had to pick one.



I'd still take Johnson, how about you?

Moss has hit his full potential at this point. But, I seriously doubt more than 2 or 3 head coaches wouldn't choose Moss if they didn't have to deal with off-field stuff and wanted to win the game next weekend. Now that said, AJ is also a freakish athlete--not the same kind--a more physical but possibly less instinctual freakish athlete who has the potential to be as gamebreaking. At this point head's up I would take AJ for longevity and personality. If they came out of college at the same time I don't honestly know, but can say I wanted AJ over Rogers.

F-minus67
05-01-2005, 10:37 PM
Moss is the best WR when he is motived and thats the problem. If he had the drive that Jerry Rice, Tim Brown or Steve Largent had he could have had a 2000 yard recieving season. When Moss wants to play he is the most unstopable force in the NFL. While AJ is an incredible physial speciemen, he doesn't have all the tools that Moss has. But AJ does have a better work ethic, he has shown this when he runs over defenders and fights for the ball. And thanks to that, AJ might just end up being the better WR when all is said and done.

Texas_Thrill
05-01-2005, 11:06 PM
I can break this down....

Better TALENT: Moss
Better Attitude: AJ
Better Teammate: AJ

I mean just on talent and football playing ability Moss is better. AJ is a top 5 WR but when Moss wants to play nobody comes close. However the key word there is WHEN. If you are looking for consistentcy which I would rather have I'd go with AJ.

But let's face it if you put them both in a draft together....9 out of 10 would go Moss.

Youngstown Colt
05-01-2005, 11:40 PM
Moss is the best there is.

If these two were coming out of college, everyone would take Randy. He makes Ferrote look like a pro bowler, and put Daunte on a whole new level, which he doesn't touch when Radny isn't in the lineup

infantrycak
05-01-2005, 11:59 PM
But let's face it if you put them both in a draft together....9 out of 10 would go Moss.

Hindsight is wonderful and all, but demonstrably wrong. Moss was the 21st pick in his draft, i.e. 20 teams had opportunities to draft him and didn't, and Kevin Dyson was picked at WR above him--poor choice but demonstrates what GM's thought of Moss coming out of college. And before you say, but that was a great draft for other positions, these distinguished players were drafted before him--Terry Fair, Robert Edwards, Brian Simmons, Jason Peter, etc. plus of course Ryan Leaf (but that's a freebee).

DocBar
05-02-2005, 12:02 AM
I may be a HUGE texans fan... but lets be realistic... Moss is probably hands down the best reciever.. and yes im including owens... I mean... anybody who can make Culpepper look good has my vote.. And despite how Johnson is more of a "team player" and had a better attitude than moss... I'd still rather have Moss..

Moss can win a game on his own... The fact of the matter is that johnson .. despite what everyone here thinks.. cannot :penguin:

Even the dancing penguin agrees with me =p
Your head must hurt after that post. Moss is the best receiver in the league? Made Culpepper look good? Moss can win a game on his own? Did the Vikes go anywhere after the "Randy Factor"? Did Culpepper show how great his skills were BEFORE Moss? Did Moss win the Vikes any playoff games? Did Moss cause turmoil in the locker room with his attitude and show his *** on every occassion that presented itself? I'll take 'Dre any day of the week. He shows himself as a man and lets his play speak for itself. The NFL(and sports in general) can do with a lot less Moss type showboat jerkoffs and a lot more AJ types who let the plays do the talking and get down to business. I'm glad the Texans don't have any showboaters. It's one thing to celebrate a big play. It's another to celebrate a play that you should've made in the 1st place. There are too many players out there celebrating their "spontaneously" well-rehearsed "dances" before the play is even over. I hope Moss enjoys his time in Raider hell. He became a journeyman wide receiver, who will work for several teams and never live up to expectations, because of his selfish nature. Kinda like TO and his tenure with the Eagles.

El Tejano
05-02-2005, 11:05 AM
WIth Dre, you don't have to worry about him running over police officers and pretending to pull his pants down in the endzone

cadahnic
05-02-2005, 11:23 AM
Randy Moss is the better reciever right now. You cannot even compare Randy Moss to other receivers in the league, because there is no one like him in the league right now. If Moss had a better attitude and could keep himself healthy he is the only one that could challenge J. Rice's records.

Andre Johnson is a great receiver but you should compare him to a T.O. without the attitude. He is pretty much the same receiver as TO and will definately be better than TO in the long run.

Texan Dave
05-02-2005, 02:03 PM
What about a boxing match?? I'd take Andre

But seriously, when someone is so poor of a human being, that Moss was taken as low in the first round as he was. Even though every KNEW he was hands down the best player / talent / value comming out in possibly...oh since Jerry Rice. That should tell you guys something.

Texan Dave
05-02-2005, 02:15 PM
Made Culpepper look good?

Did Culpepper show how great his skills were BEFORE Moss?



Umm, I dislike Moss about as bad as I do Owens, and I like Culpeper pretty well. But Culpeper has always had Moss, Randal Cunningham was the Vikes QB when Moss was drafted. Moss can make just about any QB with an exceptionaly strong arm look good though, I must admit. Vick would be the total package (or seem as such) if he had Moss. (but I don't know if he'd throw the ball to Moss, I think Moss would probably go overboard with the Ron Mexico jokes with him, I know I would)

CaptainPatriot
05-02-2005, 06:48 PM
I'd like to know who you guys think has more potential ?

Has Moss already hit his potential? Is Moss already on the decline?

I like Johnson since he's a lot tougher, stronger, NORMAL.

But, lets say both of these guys came out of college at the same time and we had to pick one.



I'd still take Johnson, how about you?





I just read this, and thought it was hilarious

"I think Randy exudes that kind of personality," Collins said. "He doesn't walk around like he's better than everyone else. I think he's going to be a good teammate." (Kerry Collins on new teammate Randy Moss)


I always had a feeling Kerry was a SPECIAL person, now I have proof.


If they came out at the same time. Would have to go with Moss. Moss has Better hands and is better route runner than AJ. AJ still needs to work on his curls and button hooks he still drops passes running those routes. But as for attitude AJ hands down:thumbup

FILO_girl
05-02-2005, 07:32 PM
Moss can win a game on his own... The fact of the matter is that johnson .. despite what everyone here thinks.. cannot :penguin:


Say what? In America, football is known as a TEAM sport. If what you type was true, the Vikes would have been in the Super Bowl.....and won. So please, explain again how Moss wins games ON HIS OWN? :loser

DocBar
05-02-2005, 08:58 PM
Umm, I dislike Moss about as bad as I do Owens, and I like Culpeper pretty well. But Culpeper has always had Moss, Randal Cunningham was the Vikes QB when Moss was drafted. Moss can make just about any QB with an exceptionaly strong arm look good though, I must admit. Vick would be the total package (or seem as such) if he had Moss. (but I don't know if he'd throw the ball to Moss, I think Moss would probably go overboard with the Ron Mexico jokes with him, I know I would)
I feel like a great big dummy now!!!!

texan2061
05-02-2005, 09:11 PM
Moss is a better receiver, but I would not want his stupidity.

Huge
05-02-2005, 09:13 PM
The Titans took Kevin Dyson over Moss because they preferred Dyson's character.

Think they regret it? I would bet yes.

Straightshooter
05-02-2005, 11:00 PM
Moss by far!

CaptainPatriot
05-03-2005, 09:41 AM
I may be a HUGE texans fan... but lets be realistic... Moss is probably hands down the best reciever.. and yes im including owens... I mean... anybody who can make Culpepper look good has my vote.. And despite how Johnson is more of a "team player" and had a better attitude than moss... I'd still rather have Moss..

Moss can win a game on his own... The fact of the matter is that johnson .. despite what everyone here thinks.. cannot :penguin:

Even the dancing penguin agrees with me =p

Hey, When was the last time Moss kicked a 43 yard game winning FG in a Super Bowl? Oh forgot he has never been to a SB :hmmm: No player has won a SB by himself!
Football is the ultimate team sport! 11 players on D, 11 on O and 11 on Special Teams

Huge
05-03-2005, 09:43 AM
Corey Dillon had never been to a Super Bowl either but that didn't stop the Patriots (who already had 2 Super Bowls w/o Dillon) from trading for him (despite his past character issues).

throwANDREtheBALL
05-07-2005, 01:51 AM
that's funny.........your comparing Dillon's "attitude" to Moss'.

Isn't that like saying Oscar the Grouch is as GAY as Ernie and Burt?

To me that just doesn't make sense man. Not even close.

And to all the guys posting that CULPEPPER sucks......have you ever watched him play a game lately ? If I was building a team, I'd rather have him than Carr any day. Daunte threw for the most yards in the whole NFL. And some are saying he sucks ? So are you guys playing old Madden football games when his accuracy was low or something? Cuz he has one of the strongest arms in the league. And he's one of the hardest QBs to sack that's ever played the game. I wish Carr was more like that. Sometimes I think he needs to bulk up to Culpepper's size, just so he doesn't get killed.

Youngstown Colt
05-07-2005, 02:06 AM
I think it's safe to say that no WR will ever reach Randy's talent level. In fact I garuntee it. There will never be a more talented WR than Randy Moss, it just can't happen.

Someone already said this, but if Randy TRUELY wanted to, he could break all of Rice's records, but he doesn't want to.

DominickDavisFan76
05-07-2005, 09:19 AM
I would have to say Andre is better because, 1, he hasnt even come close to hitting his prime talent,2, Andre hasnt had a good QB throwing to him and finally number 3, David Carr doesnt always pass to Andre like Culpepper does to Moss.

TopTexanFan16
05-07-2005, 09:40 AM
I would have to say Andre is better because, 1, he hasnt even come close to hitting his prime talent,2, Andre hasnt had a good QB throwing to him and finally number 3, David Carr doesnt always pass to Andre like Culpepper does to Moss.

I agree with number 1, but carr is a good QB with a strong arm and good acuracy so to say carr isnt good isnt fair until u put him behing minn. O-line. and ur 3 saying carr doesnt pass to andre like culpepper does to moss isnt even an arguement if carr had at least 3 seconds in the pocket OR andre wasnt in double coverage he would be open more i can guarentee u that carr looks at andre before he looks to passing to anyone else.

CoachJim
05-07-2005, 09:41 AM
Pound for pound, I take 'Dre every time. "Dre hasn't begun to reach his full potential & when he gets a viable #2 next to him you'll see the defensive focus shift to the other reciever enough to net him more touches. I can't stand a player that takes plays "off" too. Moss is nowhere NEAR the blocker 'Dre is either. I watched "Dre in a practice session his rookie year come from his WR spot on a running play & "earhole" then LB Jay Foreman, putting him on his backside. After seeing that I knew he was gonna be something special. The one & only attribute I think Moss holds over 'Dre is that he has softer hands. IMO I think everything about Moss is soft...
BTW, why would Moss not WANT to break all of Rice's records?

TopTexanFan16
05-07-2005, 09:44 AM
coach jim are u a coach at pasadena?, and by the way good post but i dont think Dre has soft of hands as moss but will get there in time i think his concentration is better than moss with the ball is in the air.

Texansbacker
05-07-2005, 11:16 AM
Hindsight is wonderful and all, but demonstrably wrong. Moss was the 21st pick in his draft, i.e. 20 teams had opportunities to draft him and didn't, and Kevin Dyson was picked at WR above him--poor choice but demonstrates what GM's thought of Moss coming out of college. And before you say, but that was a great draft for other positions, these distinguished players were drafted before him--Terry Fair, Robert Edwards, Brian Simmons, Jason Peter, etc. plus of course Ryan Leaf (but that's a freebee).


Most agreed and insightful. Not to mention the fact that AJ has not had to many long jump balls launched for him by David Carr. However, when he has had them he usually came down with a spectaclar catch ala Moss, so don't discount AJ's TALENT in receiving. Plus, AJ has the ability to knock a receiver's helmet off during a block or on open field run to the goal line. Also, everyone soon forgets that Moss had Cris Carter as his veteran mentor and not Corey Bradford. CB for crying out loud on an expansion club no less!

CoachJim
05-07-2005, 02:09 PM
coach jim are u a coach at pasadena?, and by the way good post but i dont think Dre has soft of hands as moss but will get there in time i think his concentration is better than moss with the ball is in the air.

Yes, with the Pasadena Bears - a little league team in TIFI (Texas Intercity Football Inc.)

Texas_Thrill
05-07-2005, 09:34 PM
No WR can win a game by himself. Someone HAS to get them the ball that's why you rarely if ever see one win a MVP. They also usually dont get more than 6 or so touches a game.

Let's face it though. If any of those teams knew Moss would have the Rookie year he did. He would have went #2.

ATX
05-08-2005, 03:49 PM
AJ is on the upside of his career, Moss is on the downside of his career. plus AJ would never just walk off the field without his team like moss did. now i'm not saying moss isn't good, he is. he's truly a great receiver. but i'd still take AJ over Moss. Moss and T.O. for that matter are both great receivers, but they have the worst attitudes and are selfish. i'm sorry, but i just hate those attitudes and AJ is more of a team player.

Jagsbch
05-09-2005, 07:09 AM
I think AJ ought to worry about out playing our ol timer before he worries about Moss. :cool:

b0bby
05-09-2005, 11:26 AM
I love AJ. But Moss aka "superman" cannot be denied. To say moss is not a team player is just not a valid point. We can all justly say he does wear his emotions on his sleeves for all to see. But give me a break he loves to win and knows he needs a quarterback to do so. The guy is firery and loves to succeed. And gets into the head of every opponent leaving them thinking if I let this guy do what he wants hes gonna burn me and leave me looking like a fool with an endzone dance. And god knows I've been inspired to pull my pants down in celebration for far less causes than a TD. Oh and lets not forget a loss in Green Bay results in a fool moon by a bunch of overweight drunks as you drive away in the team bus. This has happen to moss in the past. And if he loses to them again it will happen once again in the future.

Texan Dave
05-09-2005, 02:58 PM
Let's face it though. If any of those teams knew Moss would have the Rookie year he did. He would have went #2.


EVERYONE knew he was going to be an imediate impact upon the NFL. NOBODY wanted him because of his attitude, lifestyle, and the way he just flat out is. One of the main contributing factors of him getting picked by Minisota at all was the fact that his brother was a starting ofensive tackle for Minisota at the time he was drafted. The Vikings thought that with his brother on the team that it would help them keep Randy under control.

rdbrem
05-11-2005, 09:41 AM
This year could make or break Moss. He wasn't even in the top 30 last year. His rookie year he averaged 19 yards per catch, in 2000 was 18.7, and hasn't averaged 16 yards per catch since. Only made 767 yards last year. If you look at Moss last 4 years, vs. AJs two years, you might want AJ. They'd be pretty close, AJ might win.

I think Moss makes some spectacular catches, but...

Inconsistent is the right label for Moss. Declining is also a possible label for him. In the long run, I think the work ethic increases the apparent talent.

SBTexans08
05-11-2005, 10:15 AM
This will have bias written all over it. A.J. is my favorite player in the entire NFL. His work ethics, the talent he's shown up to now considering the limited throws he got from a QB that's under pressure almost every snap and thus not getting the ball thrown to him as much, the potential that he still posesses, his mind set.....all of these are all reasons as to why he's my favorite player in the entire NFL. Sure it helps that he's also a Texan but the kid is just a great model for sports. Andre the Giant is what he'll be known by...just give it time. :thumbup This kid is going places and damn I'm so excited to see him succeed as one of the best if not the best WR in the sport of football.

rashid242
05-14-2005, 11:18 AM
This year could make or break Moss. He wasn't even in the top 30 last year. His rookie year he averaged 19 yards per catch, in 2000 was 18.7, and hasn't averaged 16 yards per catch since. Only made 767 yards last year. If you look at Moss last 4 years, vs. AJs two years, you might want AJ. They'd be pretty close, AJ might win.

I think Moss makes some spectacular catches, but...

Inconsistent is the right label for Moss. Declining is also a possible label for him. In the long run, I think the work ethic increases the apparent talent.

He's has 9142 yards & 90 TD's in his first 7 yrs. The best the best in history & only trails Rice's 93 for TD's.

He missed 5 games last year & that was the first time in career his missed games. He still had 13 TD's more then Johnson.

You can have your yards per catch. Let's look at 2003.

111 catches, 1632 yards, & 17 Td's. The first receiver in history to average 100 yards a game & a TD also.

Now I like Andre Johnson a whole lot & he's on his way to entering the top 5 of wide out's in the game but to even form your lips to say he's better then Moss is straight homerism.

I also know prior to last season, since 98' he led all receivers in converting 3rd catches into first downs. Talk about a guy being inconsistent.

Pretty good for a decline who just turned 28 years old. Well past his prime.

TexanFanInCC
05-14-2005, 08:57 PM
sure moss can win a game on his own and is the most uncoverable WR in the game, but i would take AJ over moss simply bc i wouldnt wanna have a clown/*****/distraction aka. randy moss in my locker room. AJ can put up good enough numbers and he wont act like a fool.

DoCt3rJ
05-14-2005, 11:53 PM
Truth, the only way you can take AJ over Randy Moss is if you can't take Moss's attitude. If you want pure skill, Moss, no brainer.

DoCt3rJ
05-14-2005, 11:55 PM
This year could make or break Moss. He wasn't even in the top 30 last year. His rookie year he averaged 19 yards per catch, in 2000 was 18.7, and hasn't averaged 16 yards per catch since. Only made 767 yards last year. If you look at Moss last 4 years, vs. AJs two years, you might want AJ. They'd be pretty close, AJ might win.

I think Moss makes some spectacular catches, but...

Inconsistent is the right label for Moss. Declining is also a possible label for him. In the long run, I think the work ethic increases the apparent talent.

and by the way lol... I know were Texans fans here and pulling for AJ but, that post is hilarious. Comparing AJ to Moss.. get real peeps.

Carr Bombed
05-15-2005, 12:38 AM
Randy Moss is the better reciever RIGHT NOW, but if your on a long term plan or you're planning for the future AJ is the better reciever and better choice. I gaurantee you that Most GMs in this league would select AJ over Moss right now, the only teams that would take Moss over AJ are teams that feel they are on the bubble and have to win RIGHT NOW, like oakland. Oakland signed another aging vetern qb and have signed many older FA's over the past seasons and have put themselves in the "got to win now" mold. Also I find it absolutely ridiculous people question Culpepper's ability and automaticly give Moss all the credit in his success. Culpepper has put the ball in the place where Moss could make a play on the ball and thats all you can ask your qb to do and he shouldn't be punished for it. When Moss was injured, Culpepper still got the job done, which is the reason why minosota felt more than comfortable in letting Moss go. If it wasn't for the year that Manning put up, Culpepper would of been a serious MVP canidate and instead of us talking about the year peyten had everyone would be singing the praises of Culpepper. I think Moss is really going to miss Culpepper this year and I'm expecting him to take a step back this year. Collins can throw a good deep ball, but for every good pass he makes, there are a equal amount of horrible ones.

TexansTrueFan
05-15-2005, 01:48 AM
yeah well he can walk off the field before the games over when he's with the raiders if he wants, but he wont do it to us, cause he'll never play for us, THANK GOD !

DoCt3rJ
05-15-2005, 01:16 PM
How are you gonna sit here and say Culpepper really helped Moss? Was it nice to have a probowl QB? Sure. Do you forget when Culpepper was out, Moss tore people up with 2nd, 3rd string QB's. Collins can throw a nice deep ball, so Moss's numbers will not go down, sorry. As for long term potential, it's still Moss miles ahead of AJ. I would rather have AJ, because of Moss's attitude, and thats the only thing/reason you can pick AJ over him.

TexansTrueFan
05-15-2005, 01:18 PM
well moss wont get much help in oakland

rashid242
05-15-2005, 01:33 PM
Randy Moss is the better reciever RIGHT NOW, but if your on a long term plan or you're planning for the future AJ is the better reciever and better choice. I gaurantee you that Most GMs in this league would select AJ over Moss right now, the only teams that would take Moss over AJ are teams that feel they are on the bubble and have to win RIGHT NOW, like oakland. Oakland signed another aging vetern qb and have signed many older FA's over the past seasons and have put themselves in the "got to win now" mold. Also I find it absolutely ridiculous people question Culpepper's ability and automaticly give Moss all the credit in his success. Culpepper has put the ball in the place where Moss could make a play on the ball and thats all you can ask your qb to do and he shouldn't be punished for it. When Moss was injured, Culpepper still got the job done, which is the reason why minosota felt more than comfortable in letting Moss go. If it wasn't for the year that Manning put up, Culpepper would of been a serious MVP canidate and instead of us talking about the year peyten had everyone would be singing the praises of Culpepper. I think Moss is really going to miss Culpepper this year and I'm expecting him to take a step back this year. Collins can throw a good deep ball, but for every good pass he makes, there are a equal amount of horrible ones.

Moss is the better choice now & will be for at least the next 3-5 yrs.

When did 28 become 38?

The reason people are shorting Culpepper is Moss has proven he can make any QB he plays with have their best years of their careers.

He's had 100 yards & scored TD's with the following QB's

Brad Johnson & Randall Cunningham in 98.

Cunningham & Jeff George in 99.

Culpepper in 00.

Culpepper & Todd Bouman in 01.

Culpepper & Gus Frerrotte in 02-04.

Culpepper is the only elite QB in that bunch. So it seems to me that as long as the QB is slightly above average then Moss doesn't miss a beat.

nunusguy
05-15-2005, 02:03 PM
I gaurantee you that Most GMs in this league would select AJ over Moss right now
I go along with that even though Moss is one of the great offensive weapons in the NFL in recent years. He' played with an outstanding offense with other
receiving threats on his team besides himself. AJ on the other hand has been
the only serious reciveing threat on an offense that doesn't even have a viable TE and the pass protection for his QB - don't get me started. Another
very big consideration is that AJ is about 4 1/2 years younger than Moss. Plus his overall attitude and camaraderie with teammates - need I say more ? AJ is a winner all the way around who wants to win - I can't say that about Moss.

TopTexanFan16
05-15-2005, 02:19 PM
I go along with that even though Moss is one of the great offensive weapons in the NFL in recent years. He' played with an outstanding offense with other
receiving threats on his team besides himself. AJ on the other hand has been
the only serious reciveing threat on an offense that doesn't even have a viable TE and the pass protection for his QB - don't get me started. Another
very big consideration is that AJ is about 4 1/2 years younger than Moss. Plus his overall attitude and camaraderie with teammates - need I say more ? AJ is a winner all the way around who wants to win - I can't say that about Moss.

yea i agree, i was watching "In there own words" on the NFL channel and it was bout moss and he was saying the only time he said he gets excited is when they call a 9 and he goes out for the deep ball. i want reciver thats excited to get out there and play any call whether hes blockin or goin for the touchdown and moss isnt one of those guys.

rashid242
05-15-2005, 02:53 PM
I go along with that even though Moss is one of the great offensive weapons in the NFL in recent years. He' played with an outstanding offense with other
receiving threats on his team besides himself. AJ on the other hand has been
the only serious reciveing threat on an offense that doesn't even have a viable TE and the pass protection for his QB - don't get me started. Another
very big consideration is that AJ is about 4 1/2 years younger than Moss. Plus his overall attitude and camaraderie with teammates - need I say more ? AJ is a winner all the way around who wants to win - I can't say that about Moss.

Having a nice attitude is good but give me the production. Moss is going to the Hall of Fame & Andre is light years away.

TopTexanFan16
05-15-2005, 10:03 PM
Having a nice attitude is good but give me the production. Moss is going to the Hall of Fame & Andre is light years away.

light years? hardly the guy continues to improve with each passing year. hes a beast on the feild and a good guy off. he has the talent and athleticisim to be a new type of reciver. he'll never be a randy moss no one will but he'll be andre huge tough pysical reciver that not only can go deep but can go across the middle and take down a few DB's in the process. thats somehtin andy cant do. so IMHO andre and randy or two totally diffrent W/R and Andre has hall of fame written all over him IMO

throwANDREtheBALL
05-16-2005, 03:01 PM
Right from the start, I wondered who people would draft coming out of college, if they came out the same time.

I know Moss has put up huge numbers that no other reciever has, he is gifted, no doubt about it.

Are Recievers in the NFL only rated on their hands and speed ?

NO

Moss is faster than Johnson, although Johnson is quite fast himself.
Moss's hands are amazing, Johnson's are quite good as well.

But, lets say I'm a Coach or Offensive Co-ordinator and these two guys are coming out of college, which this whole post is about.

Johnson blocks way better
Johnson is willing to run every route
Johnson doesn't take plays off
Johnson is tougher
Johnson is not a prima dona
Johnson breaks tackles better
Johnson is THE proto-type team player
Teammates love him

Moss is faster
Moss has slightly better hands
Moss outleaps everyone
Moss makes people miss
Moss is THE proto-type ME player
Teammates hate him

If I'm a GM, Coach, Offensive Co-ordinator or even QB....I want AJ, cuz he gives me a guy I can count on, and he'll be leading the team by example right from the start, a guy that you can count on to stay with your team his whole career. You know that Moss is never gonna help a locker room and he'll always wear out his welcome sooner rather than later.

YOU build a team around Johnson
YOU start a rift with Moss

I take Johnson everytime, by the time Johnson is 28, a lot more people will realize how wrong they were.

rashid242
05-16-2005, 03:35 PM
Right from the start, I wondered who people would draft coming out of college, if they came out the same time.

I know Moss has put up huge numbers that no other reciever has, he is gifted, no doubt about it.

Are Recievers in the NFL only rated on their hands and speed ?

NO

Moss is faster than Johnson, although Johnson is quite fast himself.
Moss's hands are amazing, Johnson's are quite good as well.

But, lets say I'm a Coach or Offensive Co-ordinator and these two guys are coming out of college, which this whole post is about.

Johnson blocks way better
Johnson is willing to run every route
Johnson doesn't take plays off
Johnson is tougher
Johnson is not a prima dona
Johnson breaks tackles better
Johnson is THE proto-type team player
Teammates love him

Moss is faster
Moss has slightly better hands
Moss outleaps everyone
Moss makes people miss
Moss is THE proto-type ME player
Teammates hate him

If I'm a GM, Coach, Offensive Co-ordinator or even QB....I want AJ, cuz he gives me a guy I can count on, and he'll be leading the team by example right from the start, a guy that you can count on to stay with your team his whole career. You know that Moss is never gonna help a locker room and he'll always wear out his welcome sooner rather than later.

YOU build a team around Johnson
YOU start a rift with Moss

I take Johnson everytime, by the time Johnson is 28, a lot more people will realize how wrong they were.

was faster & he had better hands. The knock on Johnson coming out was he would get the drops every now & then.

Texas_Thrill
05-16-2005, 06:57 PM
I would actually prefer this question to be.........Do you think the LIONS are kicking themselves now for taking Rogers over Johnson????

TopTexanFan16
05-16-2005, 09:51 PM
yea the lions have a pretty scary W/r set i jsut dont see how they dont get as much production from them as IMO they should or am i just not lookin at the stats right, im im wrong someone please correct me cause its kidna sad how that team has struggled

Huge
05-17-2005, 11:51 AM
What about a boxing match?? I'd take Andre

But seriously, when someone is so poor of a human being, that Moss was taken as low in the first round as he was. Even though every KNEW he was hands down the best player / talent / value comming out in possibly...oh since Jerry Rice. That should tell you guys something.

Jerry Rice was the 16th player taken in the 1985 draft and was the second WR to be drafted (Eddie Brown). Should we judge his abilities by his draft position?

Huge
05-17-2005, 12:11 PM
that's funny.........your comparing Dillon's "attitude" to Moss'.

Isn't that like saying Oscar the Grouch is as GAY as Ernie and Burt?

To me that just doesn't make sense man. Not even close.

Apparently you need to educate yourself on Dillon's past.

Huge
05-17-2005, 12:17 PM
EVERYONE knew he was going to be an imediate impact upon the NFL. NOBODY wanted him because of his attitude, lifestyle, and the way he just flat out is. One of the main contributing factors of him getting picked by Minisota at all was the fact that his brother was a starting ofensive tackle for Minisota at the time he was drafted. The Vikings thought that with his brother on the team that it would help them keep Randy under control.

Um, no. Moss became close friends with Korey Stringer before he passed away. Stringer was not Moss' brother.

He was drafted by Minnesota because they felt with Carter, Moss and Reed they could pretty much be unstoppable on offense. And for the most part, they were.

And back in the '98 draft, nobody really knew of Moss attitude other than he left Florida State and was busted for smoking some weed leading up to the draft. He dropped because the same reason Warren Sapp dropped. The head coach at Marshall was interviewed several times by NFL GMs and he only had glowing things to say concerning Moss.

And before anybody tries the "Well of course he's going to step up for his players"...please. College head coaches understand the importance of their integrity when it comes to being interviewed by NFL personnel. If Coach A lies to them about Player A, then that team is not going to come back to Coach A when it's time to scout Player B. Coach A knows this so he's not going to pump sunshine when it's not warranted.

Huge
05-17-2005, 12:23 PM
Back to the original question:

"But, lets say both of these guys came out of college at the same time and we had to pick one. Andre Johnson or Randy Moss?"

I'd still take Moss. But only because I was fully aware of what he was doing to teams in college and his (bad) reputation at the time was rather minimal.

But it would not surprise me to see some teams take AJ instead. In the end, both teams would be happy with who they took. But the team that took Moss would get the better player.

TopTexanFan16
05-17-2005, 05:44 PM
Back to the original question:

"But, lets say both of these guys came out of college at the same time and we had to pick one. Andre Johnson or Randy Moss?"

I'd still take Moss. But only because I was fully aware of what he was doing to teams in college and his (bad) reputation at the time was rather minimal.

But it would not surprise me to see some teams take AJ instead. In the end, both teams would be happy with who they took. But the team that took Moss would get the better player.

yea i agree to an extent, when u say better player i would probably take AJ for a couple reasons, AJ can go across the middle and is big enough and tough enough to knock a couple DB's down or juke them, AJ can also block better than moss another important thing you want he has a better attitude whether u think moss's is bad or not AJ's is still better when i think of moss i think o well he can run straight down the feild and catch the ball which is good an all but AJ is the type of reciever that can do all of that and the knock on his hands is a load of crap, he can catch, his first year in the leauge he had drops that shoulda been caught but with his work eithic which IMO is better than moss hes improved and will continue to improve. AJ and moss are 2 diffrent type of revievers and are both very good but i think AJ has the upper hand only cause he can do more things and you can use him for more things than running straight up the feild. this is all JMHO.

Huge
05-17-2005, 08:22 PM
Randy Moss has over 570 career receptions. The majority of these were not fly patterns down the sidelines. The notion that he doesn't/won't go across the middle because he's not a behemouth like Owens or Johnson is misguided. Just as I'm sure not all of AJ's catches have been crossing routes and screens.

And Moss is a good blocker in his own right. For proof, just look at the YPC for the Vikings' RBs over the past few years. You don't have that high of an average if your WRs aren't blocking.

TopTexanFan16
05-18-2005, 07:33 AM
no you have that high of an average when you havbe a nice O-line and good blocking TE.

Youngstown Colt
05-18-2005, 12:48 PM
no you have that high of an average when you havbe a nice O-line and good blocking TE.Their O-line and their best blocking TE were taken out because of injuries last year, and they still had a high YPC

TopTexanFan16
05-18-2005, 05:35 PM
Their O-line and their best blocking TE were taken out because of injuries last year, and they still had a high YPC

well then obviously the back ups stepped up and got the job done. Moss isnt a better blocker than AJ and it wasnt just moss out there blocking so i find it hard to beilive that the YPC is as high as it was because of moss is all im saying.

Huge
05-18-2005, 07:52 PM
well then obviously the back ups stepped up and got the job done.

Is it really that hard to give credit to a player you don't like even when it's due?

Moss isnt a better blocker than AJ and it wasnt just moss out there blocking so i find it hard to beilive that the YPC is as high as it was because of moss is all im saying.

I don't think anybody said Moss was a better blocker. I believe I said Moss is a good blocker in his own right. Wait, let me check...yeah, that's exactly what I said.

And I highly doubt AJ is out pancacking entire secondaries on every running play. So obviously he's not doing it alone either.

I get the feeling that everybody in the NFL could tell you they feel Moss is an excellent teammate and one of the better blockers at the WR position in the NFL and most of y'all would still bang your head into the wall in disbelief.

Don't playa hate...congratulate. (been waiting to use that...prolly should've waited longer)

TopTexanFan16
05-19-2005, 09:01 PM
Is it really that hard to give credit to a player you don't like even when it's due?



I don't think anybody said Moss was a better blocker. I believe I said Moss is a good blocker in his own right. Wait, let me check...yeah, that's exactly what I said.

And I highly doubt AJ is out pancacking entire secondaries on every running play. So obviously he's not doing it alone either.

I get the feeling that everybody in the NFL could tell you they feel Moss is an excellent teammate and one of the better blockers at the WR position in the NFL and most of y'all would still bang your head into the wall in disbelief.

Don't playa hate...congratulate. (been waiting to use that...prolly should've waited longer)

hey whats a message board for? puttin in ur oppinions i did and i said wat i think, no reason to get all sensative over it. and no im not goin to give credit to a player cause i dont think hes due, is he a great reciver? yes of course but do i think he has everythin AJ has? no thats all i was saying from the very beggening. thats all. and i can care less wat people tell me bout moss its how i view moss. people can tell me all day long DD isnt a good back or hes injury prone and i'll still argue he is a good back and he isnt injury prone, jsut an example.IMO!!!

throwANDREtheBALL
05-20-2005, 06:34 PM
and the winner is.....(drum roll)

(opening of the envelope, reading card, so I don't mispronounce name)


ANDRE JOHNSON


hahahahhhaa..............In your face MOSS fans.


Nah, I'm only playin'

I think both guys are great receivers and we'll have to wait until they are both done playing before we know the winner. And I do agree with the statement that they are different players. So maybe we'll never really be able to compare them.

Its kind of like comparing a PowerBack - who gets the tough yards and TD's.....to a Scatback - who catches the ball, and has the speed to turn the corner on the outside.

THEFUTURE
05-20-2005, 06:47 PM
AJ is the better overrall receiver, he has more all around talent, moss thrives in vertical passing games, and thats it. he doesnt have much upperbody strength in comparison to AJ, and he cant break tackles like AJ, moss is just a burner, thats all. AJ has a more all around package, he has that speed, but he also can make catches in the middle of the defense, break tackles, and keep running... they are two different type of WRs. i would take AJ over Moss for AJs personality, his ability to do multple things on the field, rather than just run really fast, and jump high

Texan Dave
05-21-2005, 01:25 AM
Jerry Rice was the 16th player taken in the 1985 draft and was the second WR to be drafted (Eddie Brown). Should we judge his abilities by his draft position?


I wasn't judging his abillities, Moss has the best abilities in the NFL, and did coming into the draft. I was judging his character.

Ibar_Harry
05-21-2005, 02:15 AM
AJ is the better overrall receiver, he has more all around talent, moss thrives in vertical passing games, and thats it. he doesnt have much upperbody strength in comparison to AJ, and he cant break tackles like AJ, moss is just a burner, thats all. AJ has a more all around package, he has that speed, but he also can make catches in the middle of the defense, break tackles, and keep running... they are two different type of WRs. i would take AJ over Moss for AJs personality, his ability to do multple things on the field, rather than just run really fast, and jump high

On character I agree with you and on strength I agree with you, but there are two other areas not mentioned. Moss I think has far better hands than AJ and he actually is better at getting open. On the other hand AJ has been in a very ineffective offense that really doesn't utilize his skills. I think its really hard to compare the two, but senority would go to Moss at this time. AJ hasn't been in that many big games yet and hasn't gone to the big dance or the playoffs. Moss makes big plays in most games and is not shutdown as often as AJ is. I believe Moss beats more Double Teams than AJ.

CoachJim
05-21-2005, 09:28 AM
Moss is faster than Johnson, although Johnson is quite fast himself.
.

Is this true? I find that VERY hard to believe. I wonder what Moss's 40 time was in the combine.

infantrycak
05-21-2005, 10:21 AM
Is this true? I find that VERY hard to believe. I wonder what Moss's 40 time was in the combine.

Moss was a low 4.3's guy, AJ was a mid 4.3's guy. The difference in speed is minimal (like .03 or something) even if Moss can still run as fast as he did coming out of college.

Davis37
05-21-2005, 10:36 AM
actually Moss ran a 4.25 40. Im not sure what AJ ran. Mathis ran between 4.26 and 4.28 at the combine

infantrycak
05-21-2005, 10:59 AM
actually Moss ran a 4.25 40. Im not sure what AJ ran. Mathis ran between 4.26 and 4.28 at the combine

Moss did not run a 4.25 at the combine. Just this year Mathis was reported as beating the fastest time ever at the combine on some watches going 4.25 to 4.28. Deion Sanders ran a 4.28. AJ was reported to have run a 4.27 during college but all those non-combine numbers are suspect. Either way you look at it, combine numbers or non-combine numbers AJ was about .02-.03 slower coming out of college. IMO that is squat of a difference if it even still exists with Moss being four years older.

big sarge
05-21-2005, 11:06 AM
To me what it boils down to is self motivation in which AJ is better at it. You won't see AJ walking off the field because he wants to throw a fit like a kid. I think AJ has the class of Rice the heart of Largent, and more motivation in his shoes and that makes him a complete player. You want to talk about turning over a game. Well Moss and AJ have 2 speeds fortunately for the Texans AJ's are tough and tougher. AJ is like a sleeping giant, you know he's big and physical and I'm sure before the game db's size him up. After he gets to the line and smokes you, you never see him comming. He also has the modesty of a champion. So definately I would take AJ no question about it. If you want to talk about taking over a game aka(also known as leadership) then you have to look at what that involves. You have to bring people to your level and not play down to theirs, and no matter how many mistakes you make you must not ever quit which is what Moss does.

GOD!
Family!
Country!
Texans!!!

Texan Dave
05-21-2005, 11:34 PM
Didn't Johnson win second place in the NFLs fastest man compotition??

Also, didn't Travis Hannah, drafted bye the Oilers I think in 95, bust a 4.1 fourty??? I know he was garbage as a player, but he was fast.

Another one who I know was rediculesly fast was Carl Roaches, who went to Smiley Highschool, then A&M, and then returned kickes for the Oilers. I don't know that he went to anny combine, or was drafted. But my dad played highschool football with him, and I know that he was clocked running consistant 4.2 fourties on grass in highschool, and I doubt he got any slower going into the pro's.

I've also heard that Mathis had a hamstring pull when he ran, and had his thigh wraped.

Anyhow, I doubt that Mathis or Moss have the fastest times ever, although I could verry easily be wrong. Their's some people out their that are so fast that it sounds like bs untill you see them do it.

Huge
05-23-2005, 08:35 PM
Moss did not run a 4.25 at the combine. Just this year Mathis was reported as beating the fastest time ever at the combine on some watches going 4.25 to 4.28. Deion Sanders ran a 4.28. AJ was reported to have run a 4.27 during college but all those non-combine numbers are suspect. Either way you look at it, combine numbers or non-combine numbers AJ was about .02-.03 slower coming out of college. IMO that is squat of a difference if it even still exists with Moss being four years older.

Agreed.

It's also nonessential as the best WR ever to play the game never sniffed a 4.4 much less a 4.3.

Texan Dave
05-24-2005, 01:01 AM
Agreed.

It's also nonessential as the best WR ever to play the game never sniffed a 4.4 much less a 4.3.

Kind of Ironic, their are horrible recievers that are crazy fast, and great recievers that barely run a 4.6.

Huge
05-24-2005, 08:46 AM
I wouldn't say it's ironic. It's a misconception. Too much emphasis has always been placed on 40 times. Maybe is just the glamour stat.

But when you look at 4 players who I consider to be the best offensive football players of all time:

Jim Brown
Jerry Rice
Walter Payton
Emmitt Smith

None of those guys ran anything close to a 4.3 Yet year in and out so much is made out of it. This is a billion dollar industry and the people who run it have way more education and experience than I could ever dream of. But if a prospect runs a 4.5, red flags are thrown up all over.

It's hilarious and frustrating (knowing I'll never be able to change the perception of the general population) all at the same time.

rashid242
05-28-2005, 05:09 AM
Moss did not run a 4.25 at the combine. Just this year Mathis was reported as beating the fastest time ever at the combine on some watches going 4.25 to 4.28. Deion Sanders ran a 4.28. AJ was reported to have run a 4.27 during college but all those non-combine numbers are suspect. Either way you look at it, combine numbers or non-combine numbers AJ was about .02-.03 slower coming out of college. IMO that is squat of a difference if it even still exists with Moss being four years older.

I can't find that the article but he was clocked at 4.27 & 4.31. Moss has a gear I think Andre doesn't quite have but he's still in the ball park.

rashid242
05-28-2005, 05:15 AM
AJ is the better overrall receiver, he has more all around talent, moss thrives in vertical passing games, and thats it. he doesnt have much upperbody strength in comparison to AJ, and he cant break tackles like AJ, moss is just a burner, thats all. AJ has a more all around package, he has that speed, but he also can make catches in the middle of the defense, break tackles, and keep running... they are two different type of WRs. i would take AJ over Moss for AJs personality, his ability to do multple things on the field, rather than just run really fast, and jump high

So you think 574 catches, 9142 yards, & 90 Td's just came from running deep routes.

That's 2nd,1st, & 2nd all time for the first 7 yrs. What a limited guy he is.

TopTexanFan16
05-28-2005, 10:34 AM
I can't find that the article but he was clocked at 4.27 & 4.31. Moss has a gear I think Andre doesn't quite have but he's still in the ball park.

no, AJ has another gear he goes into. hes fast but when he kicks into that gear its almost like your not watching a real guy. now i dont think AJ was faster than moss in both their rookie years but AJ is porbably faster now. IMO

rashid242
05-28-2005, 05:56 PM
no, AJ has another gear he goes into. hes fast but when he kicks into that gear its almost like your not watching a real guy. now i dont think AJ was faster than moss in both their rookie years but AJ is porbably faster now. IMO

but I wouldn't bet on it.

Texan Dave
05-31-2005, 07:40 PM
but I wouldn't bet on it.

I'd be willing to put some $$ on it.

jags98
05-31-2005, 07:55 PM
Andre Johnson with Daunte Culpepper would be putting up the same #s has Randy Moss did. AJ is that good, but does not have a completly matured QB.

Huge
05-31-2005, 10:25 PM
Culpepper's first full season as a starter was his second season in the league (2000). That season, Moss had:

77 catches, 1437 yards (18.7 average), 15 TDs

Would you say Culpepper was fully matured in his second season in the league? If you placed AJ on that team instead of Moss, do you really think AJ would put up those kinds of stats?

Moss had Cris Carter and Robert Smith as teammates which I'm sure that certainly helped take pressure off Moss. But with those two, they're going to get their touches as well (which would take away from Moss' stats) because he's simply not the only "go-to guy" on that team.

It'd be interesting to see the difference (if any) between their percentages of passes caught to passes thrown to them.

WWJD
05-31-2005, 10:39 PM
when he is older man he gonna be colder


Would somebody explain to an old lady what this means? When he gets older he's going to be better?


I don't like Moss but who can deny his talent?

Johnson is excellent and he's just beginning. Perhaps it's best to wait on comparisons till Moss retires and we see how Johnson does. If he goes out next year and blows out his knee and never recovers to what he's been comparisons are futile...

And now for that translation...

THEFUTURE
06-01-2005, 02:18 AM
So you think 574 catches, 9142 yards, & 90 Td's just came from running deep routes.

That's 2nd,1st, & 2nd all time for the first 7 yrs. What a limited guy he is.
yeah i do, show me a time when moss has ran across the middle, and broken tackles and ran off for a TD, not to many that i can remember.... Culpepper has a big arm, and just lets moss run under it, and then moss get a lot of red zone touches cuz he is taller and can jump higher, thats all, he doesnt run over anyone like AJ did to the Bills
AJ has 2110 yards in two years compared to mosses 2700 10td's to mosses 28 and andre has 145 cathes to mosses 149.. so moss goes into an experienced NFL franchise and puts up numbers that are very good. AJ comes in and puts up close number except in TD, with an expansion team with no O line, and no real running game, sorry DD teams still didnt exactly fear ya. AJ was the legit number one receiver in his first year, teams were not doubling moss as much, cuz the better receiver at the time, Cris Carter, comanded more attention, and teams let moss get his, rather than let carter get his. So yeah moss has put up better numbers, but the situations they had to experience are far too different.

Huge
06-01-2005, 08:40 PM
The thing about AJ's numbers is not just that they're vastly inferior to Moss'. They're about on par with several other WRs.

Consider the first two seasons of some of these other WRs...

Keyshawn Johnson - 133 catches, 1807 yards, 13 TDs (30 games)
Anquan Boldin - 157 catches, 2000 yards, 9 TDs (26 games)
David Boston - 131 catches, 1629 yards, 9 TDs (32 games)
Isaac Bruce - 140 catches, 2053 yards, 16 TDs (28 games)
Joey Galloway - 124 catches, 2026 yards, 14 TDs (32 games)
Torry Holt - 134 catches, 2423 yards, 12 TDs (32 games)
Darrell Jackson - 123 catches, 1794 yards, 14 TDs (32 games)

Compare those to AJ's...

145 catches, 2118 yards, 10 TDs (32 games)

Does anybody see a really big difference between those numbers that makes AJ stand out so much? Does anybody feel that if those other WRs were put in Moss' place between '98 and '99 that their numbers would also look more like this (Moss' first two seasons)...

149 catches, 2726 yards, 28 TDs

GoPats
06-02-2005, 11:16 AM
Moss might be the most talented and gifted receiver to ever play the game. I don't think he has an equal on those terms.

But who would I rather have on the Patriots? Johnson, hands down. He's also obviously a top-notch talent, and character-wise he's twice the man than Moss is. Football is the ultimate team sport, and Moss has done more than enough to show us that he's not a team guy.

CAJ
06-02-2005, 11:18 AM
:highfive: Randy of course!!! :highfive:

CAJ
06-02-2005, 11:19 AM
T.O. is the most talented in the NFL. There's not a better route runner in the league.

GoPats
06-02-2005, 11:23 AM
T.O. is the most talented in the NFL. There's not a better route runner in the league.

He's also the biggest *$#*$%*$ in the league.

infantrycak
06-02-2005, 11:23 AM
Moss might be the most talented and gifted receiver to ever play the game. I don't think he has an equal on those terms.

But who would I rather have on the Patriots? Johnson, hands down. He's also obviously a top-notch talent, and character-wise he's twice the man than Moss is. Football is the ultimate team sport, and Moss has done more than enough to show us that he's not a team guy.

That pretty much sums things up nicely, although IMO we haven't seen everything AJ has to offer yet.

In reference to the Huge debate above, certainly the team a WR plays with affects their stats. Would anyone really dispute AJ would have been even more of a monster playing on the Colts the last two years?

GoPats
06-02-2005, 11:28 AM
Would anyone really dispute AJ would have been even more of a monster playing on the Colts the last two years?

Not me... if AJ was on a pass-happy team, he'd be as productive as anyone.

I'm trying to think of an NFL team - any NFL team in recent history - that had a guy like Randy Moss or TO and actually won a Super Bowl. I guess Shannon Sharpe was quite the loudmouth, but he never dissed his team or his teammates. Prime Time was flashy, but never played at half speed like Moss (admittedly) does sometimes. It just seems like these guys are always at the top of the stats pile, but their teams never go anywhere. After 3 SBs here in New England, I have to tell you I'd never trade the team concept just to have the highest rated QB or WR in the league. Winning it all is a lot more fun from a fan's perspective!

Huge
06-02-2005, 01:11 PM
But who would I rather have on the Patriots? Johnson, hands down. He's also obviously a top-notch talent, and character-wise he's twice the man than Moss is. Football is the ultimate team sport, and Moss has done more than enough to show us that he's not a team guy.

ESPN had Mike Vrabel (New England LB/TD catching machine) on as a guest during their draft coverage. Vrabel said he'd love to have Moss on his team because of his production. Take it FWIW.

That pretty much sums things up nicely, although IMO we haven't seen everything AJ has to offer yet.

Yeah, that's a big thing AJ has going for him. Most of the dominating WRs in the league today took a few years before they blew up. AJ's learning curve looks to be a steep one.

In reference to the Huge debate above, certainly the team a WR plays with affects their stats. Would anyone really dispute AJ would have been even more of a monster playing on the Colts the last two years?

Considering the numbers Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James, Marcus Pollard and Dallas Clark have put up over the past two seasons...no, I don't imagine AJ would have stats that look much better than Reggie Wayne's over the past two seasons...

145 catches, 2084 yards, 19 TDs

There's only so many footballs to catch.

Not me... if AJ was on a pass-happy team, he'd be as productive as anyone.

I agree he'd be as productive as anyone (probably more than most). My point is that he wouldn't be as productive as what Moss has been.

I'm trying to think of an NFL team - any NFL team in recent history - that had a guy like Randy Moss or TO and actually won a Super Bowl. I guess Shannon Sharpe was quite the loudmouth, but he never dissed his team or his teammates. Prime Time was flashy, but never played at half speed like Moss (admittedly) does sometimes. It just seems like these guys are always at the top of the stats pile, but their teams never go anywhere. After 3 SBs here in New England, I have to tell you I'd never trade the team concept just to have the highest rated QB or WR in the league. Winning it all is a lot more fun from a fan's perspective!

Keyshawn Johnson won a Super Bowl with Tampa Bay.

Thing is, there's not many players like Moss and Owens. Many have the attitudes (Joe Horn for example) but none of them have that level of talent. So it'd be pretty difficult to find a player that fits this description.