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View Full Version : How the hell do we get Justin Blackmon?


NastyNate
01-02-2012, 11:33 PM
Seriously, that's the missing link. Huge WR#2 that would make us the most explosive offense in the NFL. Make it happen Rick!

pissknocker
01-02-2012, 11:39 PM
Would be nice. But he is wr #1material. He needs lots of looks, not gonna share with aj

NastyNate
01-02-2012, 11:45 PM
Would be nice. But he is wr #1material. He needs lots of looks, not gonna share with aj

Well projected is Kendall Wright to be available for us. He's too short to make it work, I'm a hater I know. Why can't we have multiple 1000 yard receivers with Arian Foster making life difficult to cover us in any aspect? Honestly I'd take this year's defense with AJ #1 Blackmon #2, and giving up a slew of draft picks. We'd be an unreal offense. ****, make it happen Rick! We're lacking a #2 WR, second solid CB and backup interior lineman to be a superbowl winner.

Hervoyel
01-03-2012, 12:13 AM
No one capable of stepping up behind AJ was a real problem this year. WR2 needs to be addressed. If you think about it there's not a single defensive need this off-season. Not really. If nothing changed on that side of the ball we'd be more than good-to-go. We need a WR2, a RT... hell just some legitimate line depth anywhere we can find it, and then we can look at other places we could use depth. It's time to put a few early picks on the offensive side of the ball.

A potential WR1 can come in and play second fiddle to Andre Johnson for a few years. AJ just finished his 9th season and time catches everybody. If we draft someone now we'll be transitioning like the Colts did between Harrison and Wayne.

Carr Bombed
01-03-2012, 12:28 AM
Would be nice. But he is wr #1material. He needs lots of looks, not gonna share with aj

??? Sharing the football and looks has nothing to do with it. In today's league there is PLENTY of passes to go around. They don't have a problem in Dallas, don't have a problem in NOLA, don't have a problem in Atlanta..don't have a problem in GB. Torry Holt was a #1 WR and they had not problem sharing the ball in St. Louis...same with Boldin and Fitz in Arizona. Tate and Foster are both #1 backs and they have no problem sharing the ball.

The only position on the field that "sharing" comes into play is the QB position.

What's going to prevent this from happening is he simply won't be available for us to draft, but if he was..nobody would worry about sharing or touches...that wouldn't even factor into the situation.

Brisco_County
01-03-2012, 12:35 AM
I've had this scenario figured out since Schaub got hurt.

We count on developing Yates, and trade Schaub to Washington for their #1 and #2. They would pay that premium because they need him running their offense that badly, and Kyle Shanahan has proven to work well with him. The Shanahans also might be fighting for their jobs.

With those picks, Rick Smith trades up to get Blackmon ahead of the Browns.

TexanSam
01-03-2012, 12:43 AM
I've had this scenario figured out since Schaub got hurt.

We count on developing Yates, and trade Schaub to Washington for their #1 and #2. They would pay that premium because they need him running their offense that badly, and Kyle Shanahan has proven to work well with him. The Shanahans also might be fighting for their jobs.

With those picks, Rick Smith trades up to get Blackmon ahead of the Browns.

Not sure that I'd trade Schaub to trade up for Blackmon. This team is a contender going into next season with Schaub at QB. He's much more valuable to us than Blackmon.

Texecutioner
01-03-2012, 01:47 AM
No one capable of stepping up behind AJ was a real problem this year. WR2 needs to be addressed. If you think about it there's not a single defensive need this off-season. Not really. If nothing changed on that side of the ball we'd be more than good-to-go. We need a WR2, a RT... hell just some legitimate line depth anywhere we can find it, and then we can look at other places we could use depth. It's time to put a few early picks on the offensive side of the ball.

A potential WR1 can come in and play second fiddle to Andre Johnson for a few years. AJ just finished his 9th season and time catches everybody. If we draft someone now we'll be transitioning like the Colts did between Harrison and Wayne.

We do have needs on defense.

We could get better up front in the middle, we could upgrade at S, and at CB.

I have no problem upgrading at the WR position and it needs to happen, but it would be much easier to do that in free agency as their will be a ton of nice options there where guys could come in immediately and produce as oppose to rolling the dice on a rookie for a team that is ready to contend.

I'd rather the Texans continue to roll the tide on their defense though, and keep building to make it not just a great defense for one season or two, but for an entire decade.

TexanSam
01-03-2012, 02:06 AM
We do have needs on defense.

We could get better up front in the middle, we could upgrade at S, and at CB.

I have no problem upgrading at the WR position and it needs to happen, but it would be much easier to do that in free agency as their will be a ton of nice options there where guys could come in immediately and produce as oppose to rolling the dice on a rookie for a team that is ready to contend.

I'd rather the Texans continue to roll the tide on their defense though, and keep building to make it not just a great defense for one season or two, but for an entire decade.

There are going to be some pretty good free agent WRs. Robert Meacham, Jerome Simpson, and Pierre Garcon are players who probably won't get paid #1 money and would be a good compliment to AJ.

MojoMan
01-03-2012, 06:23 AM
This guy is likely going in the top five picks. The Texans are not going to get him. It would be nice though.

NastyNate
01-03-2012, 06:47 AM
This guy is likely going in the top five picks. The Texans are not going to get him. It would be nice though.

Understood. Thus the question "How the hell do we get Justin Blackmon?"

Figure something out, what do you armchair GM's think?

MojoMan
01-03-2012, 06:51 AM
Understood. Thus the question "How the hell do we get Justin Blackmon?"

Figure something out, what do you armchair GM's think?

The Texans need to cross Blackmon off the list and see what other top rated receivers might be available later in the first round.

They are not going to be able to get Andrew Luck or Robert Griffen, III, either, by the way.

El Tejano
01-03-2012, 07:58 AM
I believe in this upcoming draft there will be some very good WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round.

I believe our needs are
WR#2, OL (interior...Briesel being gone/Rashad Butler will be back),
DT (Cody did good but if we can get the space eater it makes our defense more versatile)
CB (you can't have enough)
QB (I'm not sold on Yates as the future and Schaub - we still don't know what his status will be going into next season and he's running out of time very soon.)

Corrosion
01-03-2012, 08:12 AM
Not very likely , hell there is the possibility he could go #1 overall to the Dolts ..... if Manning is healthy (call me crazy but it could happen).

Would he get past ST at #2?


I cant imagine a single team in the top five spots that wouldnt at least consider taking him.

The only way the Texans have a shot is Yates taking them on a deep run in the playoffs and maybe sending him to one of those early QB hungry teams - for that to happen he has to fall at least to the #3 pick. (and the Texans would likely have to add considerably more than just Yates even under the best circumstances.)

dryans4prez
01-03-2012, 08:18 AM
All it takes is Mario Williams to Panthers for a 1st and 3rd this year and a 2nd and 4th next year to get him. Id rather have 2 Ajs on each side than Mario on the outside. Brooks can makes the defense not better but more versatile. I think the gains out way the losses.

El Tejano
01-03-2012, 08:23 AM
All it takes is Mario Williams to Panthers for a 1st and 3rd this year and a 2nd and 4th next year to get him. Id rather have 2 Ajs on each side than Mario on the outside. Brooks can makes the defense not better but more versatile. I think the gains out way the losses.

We'd have to sign Mario first right?

dryans4prez
01-03-2012, 08:24 AM
We'd have to sign Mario first right?


Yeah but we can franchise then trade away like the Chiefs did with Allen.

Corrosion
01-03-2012, 08:47 AM
Yeah but we can franchise then trade away like the Chiefs did with Allen.

And you tink you can trade him with a cap hit of $23m ? Not going to happen. :clap:

beerlover
01-03-2012, 09:08 AM
Atlanta move up 21 spots to grab Julio Jones. Picking 27th overall to #6 overall.

They did it by trading their 2011 1st, 2nd & fourth followed by this years (2012) 1st & 4th. So Rick Smith would have to make an offer similar to this in order to trade up far enough to get Blackmon.

Houston is selecting around 24th assuming they beat Cincinnati then lose to Baltimore. Both Cleveland 4th or Tampa 5th could select him or accept package deal.

ChampionTexan
01-03-2012, 09:15 AM
And you tink you can trade him with a cap hit of $23m ? Not going to happen. :clap:

It's almost definite that anybody trading for Mario under this scenario would have a long-term deal in place that would bring the cap hit far under that number. Allen had agreed to a six year deal with the Vikings before the trade was finalized (otherwise, the Vikings wouldn't have done it). The Pats traded Matt Cassel to the Chiefs after he'd signed the franchise tender, and while a LT deal wasn't in place when the trade was done, it was in place prior to the '09 season, so the franchise amount never hit the Chiefs cap. Because of the guaranteed amount the franchise tag would generate, the idea of trading without a LT deal agreed to (in principle) ahead of time is probably unlikely to put it mildly.

I believe the question is actually two-fold. First, is this a direction the Texans would consider going in the first place, and second, is there a team out there willing to trade away enough to satisfy the Texans on top of what they'd have to pay out to Mario in the form of guaranteed cash in order to reach that LT deal. The Texans would either have to be extremely confident that a trade could be done, or willing to accept the cap consequences of not being able to find a trade partner.

NastyNate
01-03-2012, 09:26 AM
All it takes is Mario Williams to Panthers for a 1st and 3rd this year and a 2nd and 4th next year to get him. Id rather have 2 Ajs on each side than Mario on the outside. Brooks can makes the defense not better but more versatile. I think the gains out way the losses.

Panthers are a viable option with a potential MW Trade. Their pass rush has been pretty abysmal this year and need little offensively to be a real threat in their division. I wonder what their cap looks like though.

Hervoyel
01-03-2012, 09:29 AM
We do have needs on defense.

We could get better up front in the middle, we could upgrade at S, and at CB.

I have no problem upgrading at the WR position and it needs to happen, but it would be much easier to do that in free agency as their will be a ton of nice options there where guys could come in immediately and produce as oppose to rolling the dice on a rookie for a team that is ready to contend.

I'd rather the Texans continue to roll the tide on their defense though, and keep building to make it not just a great defense for one season or two, but for an entire decade.


We have wants on defense, not needs. At least not "OMG What the hell are we gonna do!" needs (not anymore at least). I'm not suggesting we stand pat and don't take anybody on that side of the ball, I'm just saying if we did stand pat then we'd probably still have a top ten unit over there and it's not like you can't get it done with a top ten defense.

There will be some good free agent WR's out there this year and the right one at a reasonable price would make an excellent WR2 in the short term and a placeholder until the WR you draft grows up. That WR you draft (and it's probably not Blackmon to be honest, we won't have a shot at him unless we trade the whole damn draft to get up there) is going to be a whole lot more affordable than a high profile FA WR with a lot of years left on him. We need that WR to be the heir apparent to AJ and to be a weapon alongside of him in the short term. Better to draft than overpay in free agency for that guy.

NastyNate
01-03-2012, 09:30 AM
The Texans need to cross Blackmon off the list and see what other top rated receivers might be available later in the first round.

They are not going to be able to get Andrew Luck or Robert Griffen, III, either, by the way.

Never said they were going for RGIII or Luck. We have very few needs in this year's draft. A healthy Schaub and we were legitimate contenders to get to the AFC championship game, a stout #2 WR and we'd be in the big show. This is a passing league, anything we can do to pull another safety out of the box and let Foster go nutty will benefit us (odd backwards thinking I know).

Blackmon is the best solution to our problem regardless of the hurdles needed to acquire him. Trade up and trade aggressively. It's a no brainer.

Hervoyel
01-03-2012, 09:45 AM
Never said they were going for RGIII or Luck. We have very few needs in this year's draft. A healthy Schaub and we were legitimate contenders to get to the AFC championship game, a stout #2 WR and we'd be in the big show. This is a passing league, anything we can do to pull another safety out of the box and let Foster go nutty will benefit us (odd backwards thinking I know).

Blackmon is the best solution to our problem regardless of the hurdles needed to acquire him. Trade up and trade aggressively. It's a no brainer.


I disagree. I think you can find someone later in the first round who can get it done for you just as easily and for less money. Reggie Wayne (to go back to that comparison) was taken 30th overall. There will be a lot of WR's in this draft and I think it's a mistake to get locked into Blackmon even though he's outstanding.

I just don't think he's so outstanding that he's worth giving away a lot of the rest of our draft to get him.

The1ApplePie
01-03-2012, 09:52 AM
WR is the biggest need but I think Blackmon is out of reach.

For anyone that says defense:

The Texans have a good defense under Wade. Not to mention that defense is becoming less important every year in the NFL anyways.

NastyNate
01-03-2012, 09:59 AM
I disagree. I think you can find someone later in the first round who can get it done for you just as easily and for less money. Reggie Wayne (to go back to that comparison) was taken 30th overall. There will be a lot of WR's in this draft and I think it's a mistake to get locked into Blackmon even though he's outstanding.

I just don't think he's so outstanding that he's worth giving away a lot of the rest of our draft to get him.

I figured we would end up with Kendall Wright who is a great player but we all saw how small WR's work out in Kubes' offense (DA anyone?). DA was mainly zone drag routes from the slot and would disappear games at a time. Plus Jeff Maehl looks like he'll be filling that role next year anyways.

I'd take Blackmon no matter what it takes. Him plus AJ puts our receiver corps at the top of the league if we can ship Jacoby off.

gary
01-03-2012, 10:36 AM
Pull an Atlanta and you will have Blackmon.

Mr teX
01-03-2012, 10:51 AM
I'm not willing to pull an ATL falcon & give up the house to get Blackmon. He's nice, but they'll be pretty good guys at WR in the 1st when we pick....or at least guys we don't have to mortgage our future on to get.

Corrosion
01-03-2012, 10:55 AM
It's almost definite that anybody trading for Mario under this scenario would have a long-term deal in place that would bring the cap hit far under that number. Allen had agreed to a six year deal with the Vikings before the trade was finalized (otherwise, the Vikings wouldn't have done it). The Pats traded Matt Cassel to the Chiefs after he'd signed the franchise tender, and while a LT deal wasn't in place when the trade was done, it was in place prior to the '09 season, so the franchise amount never hit the Chiefs cap. Because of the guaranteed amount the franchise tag would generate, the idea of trading without a LT deal agreed to (in principle) ahead of time is probably unlikely to put it mildly.

I believe the question is actually two-fold. First, is this a direction the Texans would consider going in the first place, and second, is there a team out there willing to trade away enough to satisfy the Texans on top of what they'd have to pay out to Mario in the form of guaranteed cash in order to reach that LT deal. The Texans would either have to be extremely confident that a trade could be done, or willing to accept the cap consequences of not being able to find a trade partner.


I agree with you that this is a possibility BUT you have to consider that even if franchised or extended and traded MW would have some cap ramifications for next years Texans team.
The NFL's rules just dont allow much freedom of movement between teams in trade situations with high salary players. Just look at the small sample size of high profile players moved.

Mr teX
01-03-2012, 10:56 AM
I figured we would end up with Kendall Wright who is a great player but we all saw how small WR's work out in Kubes' offense (DA anyone?). DA was mainly zone drag routes from the slot and would disappear games at a time. Plus Jeff Maehl looks like he'll be filling that role next year anyways.

I'd take Blackmon no matter what it takes. Him plus AJ puts our receiver corps at the top of the league if we can ship Jacoby off.

DA is 1 end of the spectrum..........................the other is wes welker.

In any event, DA is a horrible comparison. As he is smallish & then on top of that he's slow & can't get separation. Wright's a bit bigger & faster.

Texecutioner
01-03-2012, 11:41 AM
The Texans have a good defense under Wade. Not to mention that defense is becoming less important every year in the NFL anyways.

Really? What NFL league are you watching, because I just noticed a lousy 49ers team come out of the wood works this season and grab the #2 seed in the NFC with straight defense and a running game behind the leadership of Alex Smith.

I also see the same Steelers and Ravens teams fight all year to grab top seeds once again this year. THese two teams have been making the post season most of the last decade off of mainly defense.

I just watched a Tennessee Titans team take the #1 seed in the AFC a few years ago with Kerry Collins leading that team at QB and a running game to go with it.

I seem to remember the Chicago Bears having an electric defense a few years ago that got them into a SB even despite having a terrible offense where they had to drag Rex Grossman there with them.

I also just watched a Texans team have their best run they've ever had mainly due to superior defense that got turned around in one season.


I think that I have gone beyond what I needed to provide as far as examples to illustrate my point. Defense wins championships and great QB's win championships. The league may be becoming more offensive from a statistical standpoint, but that's "all the more reason for importance" of defense. The teams that have top defensive units will have better advantages if the league is favoring offense any way. The majority of the last SB winners over the last decade had very strong defensive units. That's fact. For all of the hoopla I hear about this league being such an offensive juggernut everywhere and people complaining about all of these records being broken or whatever, people seem to forget about the greatness of some of these defenses we've seen in recent years that have been some of the best of all time.

ChampionTexan
01-03-2012, 11:47 AM
I agree with you that this is a possibility BUT you have to consider that even if franchised or extended and traded MW would have some cap ramifications for next years Texans team.
The NFL's rules just dont allow much freedom of movement between teams in trade situations with high salary players. Just look at the small sample size of high profile players moved.

First, if they were going to trade him, there's no way they'd do the extension themselves - they'd let the team trading for him do that, so with that said, please explain the cap ramifications (to the Texans) of franchising him and then trading him.

Thanks!

Playoffs
01-03-2012, 11:47 AM
Blackmon looks like he's 30 years old. He's cut more in the mold of an AJ versus a Megatron. What a beast.

Texecutioner
01-03-2012, 11:49 AM
I'm not willing to pull an ATL falcon & give up the house to get Blackmon. He's nice, but they'll be pretty good guys at WR in the 1st when we pick....or at least guys we don't have to mortgage our future on to get.

The Falcons didn't mortgage their future for Jones. He's the real deal, and they paid a lot, but they didn't get a bust. They got a stud, so I think that deal will work out for them long term.

I'd be fine if the Texans went after this Blackmon kid. He's worth it. Now I would definitely have my limits as to what I'd want them to spend, but I'd throw away a few draft picks for this kid, because I think he's the real deal all the way. But of course I still think it's more important to get defensive guys that want to kill people.

NastyNate
01-03-2012, 12:17 PM
The Falcons didn't mortgage their future for Jones. He's the real deal, and they paid a lot, but they didn't get a bust. They got a stud, so I think that deal will work out for them long term.

I'd be fine if the Texans went after this Blackmon kid. He's worth it. Now I would definitely have my limits as to what I'd want them to spend, but I'd throw away a few draft picks for this kid, because I think he's the real deal all the way. But of course I still think it's more important to get defensive guys that want to kill people.

So much this. Blackmon is the real deal and will be an immediate impact at WR#2. We're not losing anything to trade up for his value. Minnesota is looking to deal their #3 spot anyways, and I would suspect Carolina would as well. let's take em up on it.

beerlover
01-03-2012, 12:36 PM
The Falcons didn't mortgage their future for Jones. He's the real deal, and they paid a lot, but they didn't get a bust. They got a stud, so I think that deal will work out for them long term.

I'd be fine if the Texans went after this Blackmon kid. He's worth it. Now I would definitely have my limits as to what I'd want them to spend, but I'd throw away a few draft picks for this kid, because I think he's the real deal all the way. But of course I still think it's more important to get defensive guys that want to kill people.

I agree with you, if anything a team will say hey, we can get more just look @ the value Julio brought to Falcons organization, especially farther they go in playoffs & Jones becomes a difference maker.

Blake
01-03-2012, 12:41 PM
Once Blackmon plays out his rookie contract, if he does not resign with that team we might be able to get him. That is about it.

If we trade up for ANYONE it needs to be RG3.

Mr teX
01-03-2012, 12:44 PM
So much this. Blackmon is the real deal and will be an immediate impact at WR#2. We're not losing anything to trade up for his value. Minnesota is looking to deal their #3 spot anyways, and I would suspect Carolina would as well. let's take em up on it.

Yeah, but are we really just a #2 WR away is the question. We could've just as easily snagged a guy like Brandon Lloyd just this past year for only a 7th. He is/was certainly capable of stepping in/up on a short term basis while AJ recovered. & to be honest, there are guys in that mold that are all up & down this draft.

Don't get me wrong, we could certainly use a guy like Blackmon but i don't think he's the caliber of guy we absolutely have to have to keep our offense stable in the event AJ were to go down again. We just need someone better than Jones & Walter..which wouldn't really be tough to do. If they decide to come out, we could draft guys like this in the 1st without giving up too much to move up

Alshon Jeffrey, SC
Micheal Floyd, ND
R. Broyles OU


Hell we could even wait until the 2nd round & still get guys like Fuller out of A&M, Nick Toon out of Wisc.

Point is, it won't be hard for us to find a guy in the draft that will be better than those 2 & there's just no need to give up a ton of stuff to move up into the top 5 to get Blackmon...especially with our other needs. You could wait a lot later & still get a competent #2 possession guy.

NastyNate
01-03-2012, 01:13 PM
Alshon Jeffrey, SC

Probably go to Cleveland. They have 2 firsts, I'd be okay moving up a bit for Jeffrey. I can actually see this deal happening.Micheal Floyd, ND

If we move up for Floyd might as well take a shot to get Blackmon. Not overly impressed with Floyd.
R. Broyles OU

5'-10" receiver that just tore his ACL? Kind of a gamble. All time NCAA reception record, could be WW Prototype. Could be a bust. I wouldn't be too happy about drafting him.

My responses in orange.

Texecutioner
01-03-2012, 01:19 PM
Yeah, but are we really just a #2 WR away is the question. We could've just as easily snagged a guy like Brandon Lloyd just this past year for only a 7th. He is/was certainly capable of stepping in/up on a short term basis while AJ recovered. & to be honest, there are guys in that mold that are all up & down this draft.

Don't get me wrong, we could certainly use a guy like Blackmon but i don't think he's the caliber of guy we absolutely have to have to keep our offense stable in the event AJ were to go down again. We just need someone better than Jones & Walter..which wouldn't really be tough to do. If they decide to come out, we could draft guys like this in the 1st without giving up too much to move up

Alshon Jeffrey, SC
Micheal Floyd, ND
R. Broyles OU


Hell we could even wait until the 2nd round & still get guys like Fuller out of A&M, Nick Toon out of Wisc.

Point is, it won't be hard for us to find a guy in the draft that will be better than those 2 & there's just no need to give up a ton of stuff to move up into the top 5 to get Blackmon...especially with our other needs. You could wait a lot later & still get a competent #2 possession guy.

Those guys are a much bigger roll of the dice. Blackmon is not. Sure, anyone could be a bust when you see guys like Roy Williams and Braylen Edwards but Blackmon is a guy that you see that is all money. He'd be another Andre Johnson/TO/Roddy White type of WR that could be here for another 10 years like AJ has been. I'd be alright with making the investment. I think the bigger problem would be to figure out how to pay him and AJ at the same time. I know that rookie contracts decreased, but I'd think he'd still get paid a lot.

We both know that Rick Smith would never move up that high in the draft to make a pick like that though.

Dutchrudder
01-03-2012, 01:59 PM
All it takes is Mario Williams to Panthers for a 1st and 3rd this year and a 2nd and 4th next year to get him. Id rather have 2 Ajs on each side than Mario on the outside. Brooks can makes the defense not better but more versatile. I think the gains out way the losses.

Nobody is going to pay anything near that amount for a guy that we will be forced to deal if we franchise tag him. Franchising Mario puts the Texans in a huge bind because the value of his one year deal puts us way over the cap and forces us to deal him or make a deal (I'm sure his agent knows that). There won't be that many teams interested in giving up multiple picks for a guy who converted to OLB to play 5 games before having a season-ending injury. Nobody will want to give him a long-term deal on top of that. If we got a 2nd out of him after tagging him, I would be happy.

gary
01-03-2012, 02:02 PM
Here is my take on this matter. Atlanta was aggressive and I like that. The thing is if they draft well this year and next then they should still come out just fine. You don't have to make a massive trade up like that every year but once every X amount of years such a move should not hinder your team all that much if you already have a deep and talented roster then you go for that once in a blue moon big time splash. I don't think the Texans would be hurt too much if they made a huge trade up if not for Justin then definitely for another top notch receiver and bring in a play maker opposite Johnson which would stretch the field even further for Schaub whenever he returns. Or if not an outstanding receiver an NT who would eventually replace Cody as the starter or a cover corner opposite Joseph. Typically I am pro staying put and drafting BPA or trading down for more picks but if you think you might see the next Reggie White or Bruce Smith or a franchise QB like Brady or Manning type of player then you should go for it. That shows you want to be a winner and willing to take some chances to do so as well as that you are also concerned about the future of the team and plotting for that as well.

badboy
01-03-2012, 03:01 PM
Nobody is going to pay anything near that amount for a guy that we will be forced to deal if we franchise tag him. Franchising Mario puts the Texans in a huge bind because the value of his one year deal puts us way over the cap and forces us to deal him or make a deal (I'm sure his agent knows that). There won't be that many teams interested in giving up multiple picks for a guy who converted to OLB to play 5 games before having a season-ending injury. Nobody will want to give him a long-term deal on top of that. If we got a 2nd out of him after tagging him, I would be happy.20% increase to Mario's 2011 salary is less than $4m and hardly puts team "way over the cap". There are several players who could be cut to balance that. Example Jacoby Jones $3m & Dominique Barber $1m (last year of contract).

Teams that should be willing to give multi picks for Mario include Washington, Cleveland, Panthers and Philly.. asw Mario can play DE & both OLBs. Nobody will have to pay anywhere near his tagged amount as a long term deal could be worke out drastically reducing his cap hit. In fact, Houston will do the deal and keep Mario. He is only 26 and has missed few games before this season.

badboy
01-03-2012, 03:07 PM
Here is my take on this matter. Atlanta was aggressive and I like that. The thing is if they draft well this year and next then they should still come out just fine. You don't have to make a massive trade up like that every year but once every X amount of years such a move should not hinder your team all that much if you already have a deep and talented roster then you go for that once in a blue moon big time splash. I don't think the Texans would be hurt too much if they made a huge trade up if not for Justin then definitely for another top notch receiver and bring in a play maker opposite Johnson which would stretch the field even further for Schaub whenever he returns. Or if not an outstanding receiver an NT who would eventually replace Cody as the starter or a cover corner opposite Joseph. Typically I am pro staying put and drafting BPA or trading down for more picks but if you think you might see the next Reggie White or Bruce Smith or a franchise QB like Brady or Manning type of player then you should go for it. That shows you want to be a winner and willing to take some chances to do so as well as that you are also concerned about the future of the team and plotting for that as well.Gary for me the trade up to get a franchise type player like Blackmon has to be compared with what the draft picks you give up would bring you. If I were a top 5 team I'd sneer at what Atlanta gave up. It'd take much more. Is a Kendall Wright (1st) and Kevin Zeitler (2nd) and Jerry Franklin ILB/OLB (4th) worth less than Blackmon? I'd forget Blackmon unless the picks could mostly be for the following year.

Texecutioner
01-03-2012, 03:12 PM
20% increase to Mario's 2011 salary is less than $4m and hardly puts team "way over the cap". There are several players who could be cut to balance that. Example Jacoby Jones $3m & Dominique Barber $1m (last year of contract).

Teams that should be willing to give multi picks for Mario include Washington, Cleveland, Panthers and Philly.. asw Mario can play DE & both OLBs. Nobody will have to pay anywhere near his tagged amount as a long term deal could be worke out drastically reducing his cap hit. In fact, Houston will do the deal and keep Mario. He is only 26 and has missed few games before this season.

What on earth makes you think Philly would be interested in Mario Williams when they already have Babin and Trent Cole? They'd be one of the last teams in the league that would be interested in Mario. Washington already has a lot invested in their DE as well, but Snyder is more of a succer for sure.

NastyNate
01-03-2012, 03:34 PM
20% increase to Mario's 2011 salary is less than $4m and hardly puts team "way over the cap". There are several players who could be cut to balance that. Example Jacoby Jones $3m & Dominique Barber $1m (last year of contract).

Teams that should be willing to give multi picks for Mario include Washington, Cleveland, Panthers and Philly.. asw Mario can play DE & both OLBs. Nobody will have to pay anywhere near his tagged amount as a long term deal could be worke out drastically reducing his cap hit. In fact, Houston will do the deal and keep Mario. He is only 26 and has missed few games before this season.

I can't see Philly or Washington making a move like that. Cleveland and Carolina is where I would hedge my sucker deals.

Dutchrudder
01-03-2012, 03:37 PM
20% increase to Mario's 2011 salary is less than $4m and hardly puts team "way over the cap". There are several players who could be cut to balance that. Example Jacoby Jones $3m & Dominique Barber $1m (last year of contract).

Teams that should be willing to give multi picks for Mario include Washington, Cleveland, Panthers and Philly.. asw Mario can play DE & both OLBs. Nobody will have to pay anywhere near his tagged amount as a long term deal could be worke out drastically reducing his cap hit. In fact, Houston will do the deal and keep Mario. He is only 26 and has missed few games before this season.

We are right at the cap now, and we know Schaub, Smith, Winston and AJ's contracts are escalating a few million, which should more than offset any savings in cut contracts. Then we have to figure that Myers and Foster will be resigned for more than the ~$3.2 million they are earning collectively now.

Our hands are tied due to this ridiculous balloon payment in his contract, and we can't afford to franchise Mario and get stuck holding the bag. They need to work out a deal with him to play for the Texans or let him walk. The best thing for Mario and his agent would be for the Texans to franchise him for one year, let him play his ass off and get a HUGE payday in 2013. All the while he gets about $17 million for one year's work and indirectly prevents us from signing Foster long-term or going after other free agents.

Dutchrudder
01-03-2012, 03:40 PM
What on earth makes you think Philly would be interested in Mario Williams when they already have Babin and Trent Cole? They'd be one of the last teams in the league that would be interested in Mario. Washington already has a lot invested in their DE as well, but Snyder is more of a succer for sure.

He says that every time trading Mario comes up, but doesn't seem to care when people point out that the Eagles have two great DE's under contract for the future. Not to mention they just signed Jenkins last year to a multi-year deal...

Dutchrudder
01-03-2012, 03:42 PM
I can't see Philly or Washington making a move like that. Cleveland and Carolina is where I would hedge my sucker deals.

Cleveland is not giving up RG3 or Blackmon for Mario Williams. They have to keep that #5 pick and hope one of those two fall to them. They are much more likely to trade that #5 and their 2nd to move up to #3 and take Griffin then waste it on a DE coming off injury who will cost twice as much money. Cleveland is young, and if they want a DE that bad, they should take Couples and keep building from the ground up.

rush2112mn
01-03-2012, 03:43 PM
Would be nice. But he is wr #1material. He needs lots of looks, not gonna share with aj

I disagree....I bet he would......especially since he would be the apprentice....and Andre is the Master.......in Sith terms...

Andre Johnson.....Darth Dre

drs23
01-03-2012, 04:19 PM
Never said they were going for RGIII or Luck. We have very few needs in this year's draft. A healthy Schaub and we were legitimate contenders to get to the AFC championship game, a stout #2 WR and we'd be in the big show. This is a passing league, anything we can do to pull another safety out of the box and let Foster go nutty will benefit us (odd backwards thinking I know).

Blackmon is the best solution to our problem regardless of the hurdles needed to acquire him. Trade up and trade aggressively. It's a no brainer.

DO NOT AGREE. There's no sense in going all Ditka here. We certainly need a legit #2 receiver, no doubt. As others have mentioned there are several that will be available in FA. Robert Meachem has always caught my eye. Don't know how much he would cost though. I also wonder how much Bob's view on signing FAs has changed after the success with JJo and Manning.

Guess I need to get over to the Mock Draft section to see what our resident Draftnics have to say. They're pretty damn good ya know. :winky:

This will be a very interesting off season. Can't wait to see how it shakes out. Unlike many others here I think Rick Smith has a handle on what's going on and will do what he needs to do.

badboy
01-03-2012, 04:30 PM
What on earth makes you think Philly would be interested in Mario Williams when they already have Babin and Trent Cole? They'd be one of the last teams in the league that would be interested in Mario. Washington already has a lot invested in their DE as well, but Snyder is more of a succer for sure.We already had this conversation (apologies if it was someone else). I think Babin is way over rated and his sacks are stat heavy.

Texecutioner
01-03-2012, 04:36 PM
We already had this conversation (apologies if it was someone else). I think Babin is way over rated and his sacks are stat heavy.

Well you may feel that way, but you're kidding yourself if you think that Philly would invest in Mario Williams when they have several other holes on that team, and realistically DE is "not" a hole on that team whether you think that Babin is overrated or not. And it matters what Philly thinks of Babin and they're in love with him over there. He isn't going anywhere.

badboy
01-03-2012, 05:03 PM
He says that every time trading Mario comes up, but doesn't seem to care when people point out that the Eagles have two great DE's under contract for the future. Not to mention they just signed Jenkins last year to a multi-year deal...I have addressed this with you before. I do not agree with your evaluation of Jason Babin. The slight increase in Philly defense under the new DC was against weak teams and many question if Lurie will allow Reid to continue with the defensive efforts he has received. Here is one quote

But Lurie’s comments make clear that Lurie expects more in 2012. “If I didn’t think next year would be substantially better, I’d be standing up here announcing a coaching change,” Lurie said.

In other words, if it’s not what Lurie thinks it will be in 2012, Lurie very well could be making a change. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

Another quote to support my position:

Citing league sources, the San Diego Union-Tribune reports that it is "all but certain" that Rams HC Steve Spagnuolo will take over as Eagles defensive coordinator in 2012.Kevin Acee of the Union-Trib seconds NFL Network speculation that Rams owner Stan Kroenke will "clean house" after the season. Andy Reid recently gave current DC Juan Castillo the dreaded vote of confidence, but Profootballtalk reported three weeks ago that the change will have to be made in order for Reid to stick as head coach. Spagnuolo should be a major upgrade on the former offensive line coach. Dec 27 - 1:35 PMSource: San Diego Union-Tribune

Trent Cole while recording 11 sacks will be 30 Oct next season. Babin will be 32 in May of next season & his recently signed contract pays him $15m next 3 seasons. I can see that Mario could offer something at either spot. Jenkins is a DT and does not effect signing Mario, in fact he could be a stop gap NT in 3-4.

I think it is obvious that Philly threw the dice with free agents & it is also obvious something did not go well. Their dream team turned into a night mare. I think a 3-4 defense is an option with Mario playing OLB and Babin the other OLB to prolong his career. Cole remains at DE.

badboy
01-03-2012, 05:16 PM
We are right at the cap now, and we know Schaub, Smith, Winston and AJ's contracts are escalating a few million, which should more than offset any savings in cut contracts. Then we have to figure that Myers and Foster will be resigned for more than the ~$3.2 million they are earning collectively now.

Our hands are tied due to this ridiculous balloon payment in his contract, and we can't afford to franchise Mario and get stuck holding the bag. They need to work out a deal with him to play for the Texans or let him walk. The best thing for Mario and his agent would be for the Texans to franchise him for one year, let him play his ass off and get a HUGE payday in 2013. All the while he gets about $17 million for one year's work and indirectly prevents us from signing Foster long-term or going after other free agents.You did not state which Smith you were refering to but Schaub ($5.7 to $7.15), AJ ($6 to $6.5) and Winston ( $4.5 to $5.5) = an increase of $2.95m for all three. A Long term deal for Mario could set his first year salary at $3m base and saving resulting could be $9m.

Dutchrudder
01-03-2012, 05:39 PM
You did not state which Smith you were refering to but Schaub ($5.7 to $7.15), AJ ($6 to $6.5) and Winston ( $4.5 to $5.5) = an increase of $2.95m for all three. A Long term deal for Mario could set his first year salary at $3m base and saving resulting could be $9m.

Well both Smiths are getting salary escalations, but the point is that we are going to have less to cap room to work with. It's going to require more cuts like letting go of Lienart, Rackers and cutting Jacoby if we want to re-sign Mario, Myers and give Foster a good deal. I don't think we will be able to afford all three of those, but if we F-tag Mario then we have to give him a deal or trade him for peanuts. It's a bad position for the front office and I think if we can't get him to sign a deal we would be better off letting him walk.

steelbtexan
01-03-2012, 06:03 PM
Well both Smiths are getting salary escalations, but the point is that we are going to have less to cap room to work with. It's going to require more cuts like letting go of Lienart, Rackers and cutting Jacoby if we want to re-sign Mario, Myers and give Foster a good deal. I don't think we will be able to afford all three of those, but if we F-tag Mario then we have to give him a deal or trade him for peanuts. It's a bad position for the front office and I think if we can't get him to sign a deal we would be better off letting him walk.

Yep

Then you can spend that $$$$ on WR2/CB2 or a NT.

It's too risky to try to franchise and trade MW for the reasons you listed above.

Atleast you should be able to get a supplemental 3rd for MW in 2013 in addition to the FA's that you could sign by letting MW walk. It's not the optimal position to be in as a franchise. But all is not lost.

Goldensilence
01-03-2012, 06:30 PM
Realistically I think there's a fair chance Blackmon goes #2 to StL. They've got a franchise QB, got an investment at T, some defensive players to build around in Long and Larenitas.

They're a mess at WR though and with new ownership coming in, might want to make a splash with the fans.

Wolf6151
01-04-2012, 05:37 AM
I think it would be cost prohibitive for the Texans to move up as high as it would take to get Blackmon. Also this is a very deep draft at the WR position and there will be lots of good ones available when we pick. Dwight Jones or Mohamed Sanu?

gary
01-04-2012, 09:32 AM
I still believe in making a trade up for a once in a lifetime player like Blackmon not every year to do that kind of move but this year I don't think it would hurt the team too much JMHO.

Corrosion
01-04-2012, 10:03 AM
I still believe in making a trade up for a once in a lifetime player like Blackmon not every year to do that kind of move but this year I don't think it would hurt the team too much JMHO.

Reggie Bush was that once in a lifetime player ..... :polevault:


Rickey was too stoned to play .... and he cost a lot too. Still a solid NFL back but not worth the cost.

Julio Jones helped the Falcons go 0-2 against the Aints.

They also went 1-4 against playoff teams.


I dont discount the ability of either Blackmon on Julio Jones but they gave up a hell of a lot to get him when they needed a whole lot more help than just Julio Jones .... They did get the second best WR in that draft but at a hell of a cost.

IMO You only make that type of move if you are One player away from winning it all .... The Falcons werent. (Tho it will be difficult for the Aints to beat them a 3rd time).

Are the Texans One Player Away from a Lombardi Trophy? :mail:

gary
01-04-2012, 10:09 AM
Reggie Bush was that once in a lifetime player ..... :polevault:


Rickey was too stoned to play .... and he cost a lot too. Still a solid NFL back but not worth the cost.

Julio Jones helped the Falcons go 0-2 against the Aints.

They also went 1-4 against playoff teams.


I dont discount the ability of either Blackmon on Julio Jones but they gave up a hell of a lot to get him when they needed a whole lot more help than just Julio Jones .... They did get the second best WR in that draft but at a hell of a cost.They could still get their help this year and next. Aren't they still in the playoffs this year?

Corrosion
01-04-2012, 10:13 AM
They could still get their help this year and next. Aren't they still in the playoffs this year?

They have no first or fourth rounder this coming draft.


Yes they are still in the playoffs but ... I give them no shot at winning. 1-4 against playoff teams should tell you something.

JCTexan
01-04-2012, 10:21 AM
They have no first or fourth rounder this coming draft.


Yes they are still in the playoffs but ... I give them no shot at winning. 1-4 against playoff teams should tell you something.

No shot at winning a game or no shot at going deep into the playoffs?

Playoffs
01-04-2012, 10:25 AM
Let's see his Combine numbers -- like size.

I like size now for WRs -- if he's 6'0" I don't think I reach for him. I'm liking the NE approach of monster TEs w/hands.

gary
01-04-2012, 10:33 AM
They have no first or fourth rounder this coming draft.


Yes they are still in the playoffs but ... I give them no shot at winning. 1-4 against playoff teams should tell you something.They still have two, three, five, six, and seven. Plus free agency to boot.

Corrosion
01-04-2012, 10:43 AM
No shot at winning a game or no shot at going deep into the playoffs?

I think they have a chance to win a game against the Giants .....Tho I favor NY in this game.
I dont give them much of a shot after that due to their performance against playoff teams and they will play each game on the road.

Win against the Giants and they face either Green Bay in Lambeau or San Fran in Candlestick pending the outcome of the NO vs Det game ....

GB already beat the Falcons in Atlanta early in the year. This time the Packers would be at home.

San Fran was 4-1 against playoff teams this year and 7-1 at home .... Atlanta was 1-4 against playoff teams and 4-4 on the road.

The NFC playoff bracket is deep this year. I think there are five teams in the NFC better .... all of them in the playoffs.

Texecutioner
01-04-2012, 10:46 AM
They have no first or fourth rounder this coming draft.


Yes they are still in the playoffs but ... I give them no shot at winning. 1-4 against playoff teams should tell you something.

Not having a first and a 4th round pick isn't going to hurt them one bit. The 1st round pick is the only part that stings a little, but they've got two premier WR's for years now. 4th round picks are a total roll of the dice any way, and they weren't going to have a high 1st rounder either. THe Julio Jones move was a good move by the Falcons. They can still make some strong moves in free agency to off set losing the 1st round pick as well. If I were them I'd continue to build that defense. The reason why they lost to the Saints twice is simply the difference between Matt Ryan and Drew Brees. That's why the Saints won. They have Brees

Texecutioner
01-04-2012, 10:48 AM
Let's see his Combine numbers -- like size.

I like size now for WRs -- if he's 6'0" I don't think I reach for him. I'm liking the NE approach of monster TEs w/hands.

I think that mainly works because Brady is such a technition on that team. I don't think a lot of teams could do that the way that the Patriots do. The Pats utilize their TE's so much because they don't have a valid deep threat and the rest of their WR's are midgets.

markn
01-04-2012, 10:54 AM
Houston is a funny sports city. With the rockets you've got a team, gm and owner desperate to do whatever it takes to land a super-star just to get the club competitive again, but can't find a trade partner or free agent to dance with. Yet with the Texans, you're looking at a franchise that's perhaps one major splash away from becoming a genuinely elite club, but you get the sense that neither the gm nor owner would even consider the kind of trade required to make it happen. Ho hum.

ArlingtonTexan
01-04-2012, 11:12 AM
Houston is a funny sports city. With the rockets you've got a team, gm and owner desperate to do whatever it takes to land a super-star just to get the club competitive again, but can't find a trade partner or free agent to dance with. Yet with the Texans, you're looking at a franchise that's perhaps one major splash away from becoming a genuinely elite club, but you get the sense that neither the gm nor owner would even consider the kind of trade required to make it happen. Ho hum.

Different sports. In basketball, one great player matters. In football, having a great player at any position except for QB, is good, but not truly significant.

Unless the texans determine that the only thing from them and the Superbowl is a very good WR (or other position) then the trade up for that guy makes sense. Outside of that, football is game of having as many good players as possible versus 7 or 8 in basketball.

Goldensilence
01-04-2012, 11:18 AM
Justin Blackmon once in a life time? Hardly.

There's only two people I put in that category: Peyton Manning and Calvin Johnson.

It's going to be a solid draft for WR, but honestly I'd rather spend for one in FA. This offensive staff just can't seem to develop the WR position.

Mr teX
01-04-2012, 11:21 AM
Reggie Bush was that once in a lifetime player ..... :polevault:


Rickey was too stoned to play .... and he cost a lot too. Still a solid NFL back but not worth the cost.

Julio Jones helped the Falcons go 0-2 against the Aints.

They also went 1-4 against playoff teams.


I dont discount the ability of either Blackmon on Julio Jones but they gave up a hell of a lot to get him when they needed a whole lot more help than just Julio Jones .... They did get the second best WR in that draft but at a hell of a cost.

IMO You only make that type of move if you are One player away from winning it all .... The Falcons werent. (Tho it will be difficult for the Aints to beat them a 3rd time).

Are the Texans One Player Away from a Lombardi Trophy? :mail:

This indeed is the question & I for 1 don't think we are. I think we are a few pieces away.

We have at least 2-3 more years of AJ being as dominant as he is now & I think we'll be fine drafting a young guy with more upside than JJ & Walter to play 2nd fiddle to him for those few years he has left being the lead dog. When the time comes to address getting a stud WR then & only then should we look at drastic moves like this to put us over the top.

We've still got issues @ cb#2, NT & i'm tempted to add RT seeing as how Winston's been playing the last couple of years. If we were move into the top 5 to try to get Blackmon, we couldn't really be addressing at least 1 of these areas for at least a year. Mainly b/c guys who are good at those positions usually don't come free very often in FA (& if they do, you're going to be coming off lots of money) whereas WR's capable of playing a solid/good #2 are usually plentiful. We know just about all of the prospects that'll be available for us in the upcoming draft.

take a look at who we could potentially land in FA next year:

Steve Johnson
Dwayne Bowe
DeSean Jackson
Wes Welker
Marques Colston
Brandon Lloyd
Laurent Robinson
Robert Meachem
Mario Manningham
Steve Smith
Early Doucet

Are we likely to land any of the top 3-4? probably not, but any of those after that i think are fair game & i'd take in a heartbeat of JJ or KW as a #2.

you couple any 1 of these guys with AJ & say a Mohammed Sanu, Nick Toon or Jeff Fuller & think we'd be fine for the next few years...............Then once AJ fades into the twilight of his career we'll be able to see if our young guy steps up or fades. If he fades......... then we just look to the draft that year & target the next phenom WR coming out.

ObsiWan
01-04-2012, 11:24 AM
Reggie Bush was that once in a lifetime player ..... :polevault:


Rickey was too stoned to play .... and he cost a lot too. Still a solid NFL back but not worth the cost.

Julio Jones helped the Falcons go 0-2 against the Aints.

They also went 1-4 against playoff teams.


I dont discount the ability of either Blackmon on Julio Jones but they gave up a hell of a lot to get him when they needed a whole lot more help than just Julio Jones .... They did get the second best WR in that draft but at a hell of a cost.

IMO You only make that type of move if you are One player away from winning it all .... The Falcons werent. (Tho it will be difficult for the Aints to beat them a 3rd time).

Are the Texans One Player Away from a Lombardi Trophy? :mail:

That's damned good question. I think we are.
But it ain't at WR.

It's at #2 CB.

When I think of the havok Wade could unleash if he didn't have to cover for Allen/Jackson.... man...
I don't know if there's a J.Jo quality CB in this draft, but if I were Rick Smith, I'd use this draft to give Wade even MORE tools in his toolbox. More toys to entice him to stay a while longer.
I'll find Kubiak/Dennison a quality #2 WR in F/A or in the later rounds.

I'm sure I'm in the minority but that's my :twocents:

Texecutioner
01-04-2012, 11:30 AM
This indeed is the question & I for 1 don't think we are. I think we are a few pieces away.

We have at least 2-3 more years of AJ being as dominant as he is now & I think we'll be fine drafting a young guy with more upside than JJ & Walter to play 2nd fiddle to him for those few years he has left being the lead dog. When the time comes to address getting a stud WR then & only then should we look at drastic moves like this to put us over the top.

We've still got issues @ cb#2, NT & i'm tempted to add RT seeing as how Winston's been playing the last couple of years. If we were move into the top 5 to try to get Blackmon, we couldn't really be addressing at least 1 of these areas for at least a year. Mainly b/c guys who are good at those positions usually don't come free very often in FA (& if they do, you're going to be coming off lots of money) whereas WR's capable of playing a solid/good #2 are usually plentiful. We know just about all of the prospects that'll be available for us in the upcoming draft.

take a look at who we could potentially land in FA next year:

Steve Johnson
Dwayne Bowe
DeSean Jackson
Wes Welker
Marques Colston
Brandon Lloyd
Laurent Robinson
Robert Meachem
Mario Manningham
Steve Smith
Early Doucet

Are we likely to land any of the top 3-4? probably not, but any of those after that i think are fair game & i'd take in a heartbeat of JJ or KW as a #2.

you couple any 1 of these guys with AJ & say a Mohammed Sanu, Nick Toon or Jeff Fuller & think we'd be fine for the next few years...............Then once AJ fades into the twilight of his career we'll be able to see if our young guy steps up or fades. If he fades......... then we just look to the draft that year & target the next phenom WR coming out.

This team is easily capable of winning a SB, what are you talking about? Before we had all of the injuries we were "by far" The most complete team in the entire NFL. We have a top ten QB in Schaub, arguably the best WR in football, a top 5 TE, and arguably the best RB in football with a great back up in Tate behind him. We also had one of the best O lines in football. That's just the offense.

On defense we have had arguably the best D all year. Sure, we have a few pieces here and there that could be upgraded, but EVERY TEAM does as well. The only thing that really holds us back compared to other elite teams is the fact that we don't have an elite QB like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Ben who isn't elite, but he's in his own category right between the elites in the 2nd tier guys.

There is no question whether or not if we're ready as a team "talent wise" to take it all. It's whether or not if Gary and Wade can get them there. No way in hell that happens with who we have at QB right now. We just have to hope for the best and expect the worst unfortunately, but we aren't a few pieces away. We're ready right now more than any team in the league unless you don't feel that Schaub is good enough to get us there, but that is something we can't do anything about right now. He is our guy.

Texecutioner
01-04-2012, 11:33 AM
Justin Blackmon once in a life time? Hardly.

There's only two people I put in that category: Peyton Manning and Calvin Johnson.



I'd easily put Blackmon up there as far as talent wise with Calvin. Sure, Calvin looked a tad bit better talent wise, but that doesn't mean that Blackmon wouldn't be a total beast. There are usually one or two WR's like that who enter the draft every season. Bryant was one of them two drafts ago. Andre Johnson is easily right there with where Calvin was in my eyes when we drafted AJ.

I think Robert Griffin III is a better prospect than what Manning was personally. It's hard for people to agree with that in hind sight, but Griffin can throw just about as well and has amazing speed to go with it.

Goldensilence
01-04-2012, 11:48 AM
I'd easily put Blackmon up there as far as talent wise with Calvin. Sure, Calvin looked a tad bit better talent wise, but that doesn't mean that Blackmon wouldn't be a total beast. There are usually one or two WR's like that who enter the draft every season. Bryant was one of them two drafts ago. Andre Johnson is easily right there with where Calvin was in my eyes when we drafted AJ.

I think Robert Griffin III is a better prospect than what Manning was personally. It's hard for people to agree with that in hind sight, but Griffin can throw just about as well and has amazing speed to go with it.

I'm not saying Blackmon won't be a beast in the NFL or that within every class there's some really great prospects like Blackmon, Bryant, AJ, Fitz, etc

Just by meaning once in a lifetime there's something that clearly sets them apart from the rest, Johnson is a physical freak with the skillset to go along. Barring injury the guy was a no miss prospect.

I don't think RG3 even comes close to Manning as a prospect. He might be more dynamic than Manning, but I don't think he's near as polished. I think Luck however, might be better than Peyton coming out of college.

gary
01-04-2012, 12:09 PM
Don't take me so literally either. I must watch what I post around here.

Mr teX
01-04-2012, 12:20 PM
This team is easily capable of winning a SB, what are you talking about? Before we had all of the injuries we were "by far" The most complete team in the entire NFL. We have a top ten QB in Schaub, arguably the best WR in football, a top 5 TE, and arguably the best RB in football with a great back up in Tate behind him. We also had one of the best O lines in football. That's just the offense.

On defense we have had arguably the best D all year. Sure, we have a few pieces here and there that could be upgraded, but EVERY TEAM does as well. The only thing that really holds us back compared to other elite teams is the fact that we don't have an elite QB like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Ben who isn't elite, but he's in his own category right between the elites in the 2nd tier guys.

There is no question whether or not if we're ready as a team "talent wise" to take it all. It's whether or not if Gary and Wade can get them there. No way in hell that happens with who we have at QB right now. We just have to hope for the best and expect the worst unfortunately, but we aren't a few pieces away. We're ready right now more than any team in the league unless you don't feel that Schaub is good enough to get us there, but that is something we can't do anything about right now. He is our guy.


How can you make the above bolded statement & then say we aren't a few pieces away?

A bonafide starting caliber #2 CB & a bonafide starting caliber #2 WR = a few pieces, not 1 piece as the threadstarter asserts we are if we trade up to get Blackmon.

What you're saying, upgrades= replacing servicable starters i.e. what we need at RT & NT as Winston & Cody are indeed legitimate starters in this league, just not ideal. & yes i agree with you every team needs those.

What we have at the above mentioned positions are not starters in this league.

I think you make a valid point about schaub as well. He's top 10, but he's not Brady, Rodgers, Manning or Brees....the type of qb who could put his team on his shoulders & win it for the team. He's a guy that has to have the right conditions to be successful & thereby couldn't deal with the holes we have on this team....what's more is that this isn't even counting the coaching handicap.

If this team is going to go all the way, they have to be damn near perfect. They cannot go all the way with the holes we have now, they must be stout pretty much everywhere.

Corrosion
01-04-2012, 12:42 PM
That's damned good question. I think we are.
But it ain't at WR.

It's at #2 CB.

When I think of the havok Wade could unleash if he didn't have to cover for Allen/Jackson.... man...
I don't know if there's a J.Jo quality CB in this draft, but if I were Rick Smith, I'd use this draft to give Wade even MORE tools in his toolbox. More toys to entice him to stay a while longer.
I'll find Kubiak/Dennison a quality #2 WR in F/A or in the later rounds.

I'm sure I'm in the minority but that's my :twocents:

Honestly I dont care where they solve the problems as long as they solve them .... Tho I think WR is the more pressing of the two another high quality QB would make this defense even more dynamic.

Texecutioner
01-04-2012, 01:01 PM
How can you make the above bolded statement & then say we aren't a few pieces away?

A bonafide starting caliber #2 CB & a bonafide starting caliber #2 WR = a few pieces, not 1 piece as the threadstarter asserts we are if we trade up to get Blackmon.

What you're saying, upgrades= replacing servicable starters i.e. what we need at RT & NT as Winston & Cody are indeed legitimate starters in this league, just not ideal. & yes i agree with you every team needs those.

What we have at the above mentioned positions are not starters in this league.

I think you make a valid point about schaub as well. He's top 10, but he's not Brady, Rodgers, Manning or Brees....the type of qb who could put his team on his shoulders & win it for the team. He's a guy that has to have the right conditions to be successful & thereby couldn't deal with the holes we have on this team....what's more is that this isn't even counting the coaching handicap.

If this team is going to go all the way, they have to be damn near perfect. They cannot go all the way with the holes we have now, they must be stout pretty much everywhere.

Every team has a few pieces like that though Mr. Tex. Look at the Pats. They've got a terrible defense, an average running game with no one great, small WR's where not one is a deep threat. THey have Tom Brady though, and with Tom anything can happen. THey've got a lot more pressing "needs" than we do though. The Packers have all these great pieces on offense, but a ton of holes on defense. The Saints are a pretty complete team, but they don't have the defense like we do, but they've got Brees which is the difference maker.

Every team in the post season has similar holes in different places or guys that can be upgraded. When we're fully healthy we're by far the most complete team though, so I'd say we're easily there. Could we still upgrade and get better? Certainly, but we're a stacked team compared to others IF WADE IS HERE. I think the key to the Texans though is to keep building this defense and keep them dominant. Upgrade certain pieces on offense here and there and keep the O line in tact to protect Schaub because he is not mobile. Look at the Steelers throughout this entire decade and they've had defense carry that team for years and that gets you through the post season especially if you have a QB who can make plays down the stretch. I think that Schaub can, but you can't put that responsibility on him to often. If you keep this defense in the top 3 of the league every year, your team will be extremely competitive and hard to beat. I see to many teams winning with that formula year in and year out and have top teams. The Titans from a few years ago and the Niners this year are perfect examples of what I'm talking about. The problem is that most teams don't "sustain" a great defense like that and continue to build it for the long haul. The Steelers and the Ravens have and that's exactly why they've been elite in the AFC year in and year out.

As far as Schaub compared to these other QB's, well we can't do anything about that. We're not going to stumble into some elite guy that is comparable to Brady or Rodgers. We'd have to tank an entire season and than wait several years for that guy to get to an elite level. Yates will "never" be that kind of guy despite all of the sunshine optimism people have tried to lay on this cat. He aint got it.

gary
01-04-2012, 01:08 PM
How do we know Yates ain't got or that he won't get after just one season?

Texecutioner
01-04-2012, 01:16 PM
How do we know Yates ain't got or that he won't get after just one season?

By watching him this year. I don't see anything in him to get excited for. Sure, he was thrown into the fire and put into a difficult situation, but I'd hate to dedicate a few seasons to see if he can ever develop into an elite type of QB. He might be capable of developing into a "servicable QB" like a Kyle Orton/Jake Delhomme type, but I don't ever see him being a top tier guy in this league, and I'd rather search really hard and try to draft a guy early in the draft at some point to replace Schaub. No one really had any aspirations of Yates being that guy over here until he was forced to play. He wasn't even considered an "after thought" before being thrown into the fire in the middle of this team's best winning streak in their history. People wanted to feel confident and optimistic about him since we were having a great season, but realistically there was no reason to think that he was going to get it done with all of the "next man up" slogans and everything. Yates is not the guy for the future here if anyone wants an elite type of QB which is what I constantly hear people bitching about not having or bitching that Shaub isn't.

Mr teX
01-04-2012, 01:59 PM
How do we know Yates ain't got or that he won't get after just one season?

we don't, but would you bet the future of the team on a guy who's ceiling is probably somewhere around a Marc Bulger type? My guess is that you Probably wouldn't.

Texecutioner
01-04-2012, 02:06 PM
we don't, but would you bet the future of the team on a guy who's ceiling is probably somewhere around a Marc Bulger type? My guess is that you Probably wouldn't.

Pretty good comparison as far as his height of his ceiling I'd say. He could improve a lot and surprise me, but I don't see Yates as anything I'd want to put the future in. His arm isn't prolific, he doesn't have top rate scrambling type of quickness and speed to get inside and outside of the pocket, and I have yet to see an "it factor" with him. Of course he has terrible WR's to throw to thus far, but I just don't see any type of great QB in him. He is a serviceable type of guy to me that could possibly surprise people and over achieve from time to time just like Bulger and Delhomme did at times.

gary
01-04-2012, 02:20 PM
I am not saying invest in anyone but it is just to early to tell/say otherwise.

Texecutioner
01-04-2012, 02:25 PM
I am not saying invest in anyone but it is just to early to tell/say otherwise.

Not for me it isn't. As far as I'm concerned he's just a late round draft pick that people got excited for because we lost two QB's and he got to play. I haven't seen anything out of him to get excited. The Texans have the ability to be patient and find that elite guy for the next few years while Schaub gets older. If they can find that one down year where they get an early pick like they did a few years ago than can get an elite guy perhaps. This is the best QB season I've ever seen personally when you have Luck and RG3 available. I'd trade the house to get either one of them.

gary
01-04-2012, 02:43 PM
Not for me it isn't. As far as I'm concerned he's just a late round draft pick that people got excited for because we lost two QB's and he got to play. I haven't seen anything out of him to get excited. The Texans have the ability to be patient and find that elite guy for the next few years while Schaub gets older. If they can find that one down year where they get an early pick like they did a few years ago than can get an elite guy perhaps. This is the best QB season I've ever seen personally when you have Luck and RG3 available. I'd trade the house to get either one of them.I think they should draft more quarterbacks for the future too I am sure there is someone else to invest in who is betta. I spelled it that way on purpose.

LikeMike
01-09-2012, 06:32 AM
If we want him, we need a package similar to the one Atlanta used to get JJ. If we think he is our missing link, we should do that - but I do believe we have more holes to fill via draft.

In the first round, take the bpa at either WR, O-Line or NT. We need O-line depth (or another quality starter) badly - we can`t overcome serious injuries here. With a playmaking NT our defense would get almost unstopable. Walter and JJ are ok as #2 and #3 WR simply because we have other weapons (AJ, AF, OD) - but when we lose AJ to injury our receiving corps looks really bad.

We could also use some backup safeties, more LB depth and maybe even a FB or a TE.

So yes, draft a WR early - but don`t use all your draft picks to get him (including next year`s #1). We are not quite there yet...